#3599 : [LPAC] Dambuster
#[LPAC] Dambuster [3599]
viral summitBOT
#3599 : [LPAC] Dambuster
kind wing
Another LPAC map?
I'm addicted to these lately.
smoky pumice
I have no idea if it is fun for most players, I usually only enjoy cheesing LPAC so I guessed for difficulty, unit placement, etc.
Change Log:```UI Changes:
- Added a 'Pop All Eggs' button to the left UI.
- Added a button for enabling a Quick Guide.
- Added a button for modifying the range of clicking on the map to pop eggs.
- Added a targeting UI for Rocks and Boosts.
- Boost targeting also displays the upgrade that will be applied to the unit.
- Added unit documentation to the wiki.
Gameplay Changes:
- Egg payload scales linearly with the percentage of the map that is covered in creeper.
- Changed Airsac Cauldron boost effects
- Boosts now alternate increasing payload by 5 and increasing airsac count by 1. Once the airsac count hits 15 all boosts increase payload by 5.
- Changed Spore Launcher and Blob Nest boost effects.
- Spore Launcher and Blob nests increment their counts by 2 instead of 1, boost no longer reduces cooldown of these units.
- Changed Skimmer Factory boost effects.
- If the Skimmer Factory is on mesh it will increase forb count and payload.
- If the Skimmer Factory is not on mesh it will decrease skimmer cooldown by 3 seconds to a minimum of 20 seconds.
- In both cases skimmer count will increment by 1.
- Rocks target priority of nullifiers is heavily reduced.
- Allowed placement of Boost/Egg/Rocks in range of dark towers and on contaminated ground.
- Egg and Rocks creeper search function modified to improve performance.
Editor Changes:
- Automerge of stacked ore nodes.
- Automatic removal of Creeper cap
- Creeper structures spawn in with parameters modified for LPAC use.
- Automatically set the Custom Objective.
AI Changes:
- Switched the rebuild script to Vertu's more optimized version.
- Autopilot script was removed.
- Disabled selection of ore nodes outside of Edit Mode.```
In theory it should feel a lot like LPAC with the improved performance, some new UI elements, cheeses removed and units other than emitters being useful for once. Air units are still a bit weird to balance, mostly because in the first iteration of the map I had 10 ERNed missiles. From testing: skimmers seem viable,spores are useless until they critical mass, blobs work well if you have a skimmer front for them, airsacs seem to make good tanks but don't deal great damage and the dark tower is funny but I don't think it's very good (also laggy to upgrade).
kind wing
On a previous map I tried boosting a dark tower. It straight up broke and didn't blackout the area. It basically turned it off without turning it off.
Still though, I'm about to load up this map.
worn nova
I enjoyed playing this and I certainly hope these tools and improvements inspire a lot more maps. Some specific feedback:
-The improved UI on the boosts is incredible since it gives me the info I always wanted about what I was boosting and by how much ahead of time.
-I'm mixed on the rock display showing which target will get hit. It seems like big improvement knowing where it will hit and being able to move it around before dropping it. I suppose I rationalized the semi-randomness of their target being either a game balance to offset it can one shot a ERN-fueled defense you otherwise couldn't kill, or an in game consequence of just sort of throwing a rock from space and it's not precise. I guess whether or not this is overpowered is more of a map by map decision based on how useful it is.
-The 'pop all eggs' button is something I've wanted forever so thank you so much for that. Being able to pop in a range of the cursor is even better.
Great work and I'll definitely check out any other maps like this.
smoky pumice
I enjoyed playing this and I certainly hope these tools and improvements inspire...
The pop in range of cursor is actually a feature of most LPAC maps, just no one knows about it and it is locked to a range of 1 so you can only accurately hit the eggs from top down view.
worn nova
Ohhhhh. I knew I could click on an egg to break it (I'm usually in top down). It didn't occur to me it popped all in that square.
thorn urchin
the new changes are much appreciated and im curious if/when people will use this new version in cursor maps, or LPAC vs AI
hearty barn
They will if they know what’s good for their computer
spiral pelican
Massive improvements to LPAC.
The options for easier to click eggs and pop all eggs are great, even if they weren't needed in this map due to so many snipers and no eggs from spores.
Upgrade preview is great and took a lot of guess work out, especially for the Air Sacs which were always confusing.
Rock preview also helps to not accidentally hit the wrong thing.
Fixed being able to select and disable redon and blueite, so you can't just turn them off and wait until the shields drop
The varied upgrades with the new balances were nice to see, it helped making upgrading things other than just emitters more useful.
The only real criticisms I have are;
1: Creeper structures can still be used as anchor points for LPAC abilities even when nullified (not sure if this was intended)
2: For this map specifically I think there was too many resources in the main base, because even with the ern portal destroyed and external redon disconnected the remaining base was still able to defend against spores and air sacs while maintaining all shields, and not over stressing energy with mortars and snipers. It was just the skimmers stunning the riftlab that allowed me to win.
fair cypress
In older LPACs, this egg would have been out of range, yet it got popped immediately?
fair cypress
One other thing, egg placement seems to happen on mousedown, which means that if the mouse click is not rapid, more than one egg will be placed (maybe unintentionally). It might be wise to do the placement on mous-up event
Edit:
Also, legal rock placement is sometimes hard to discern under creeper. Might it be possible to not indicate a target until the placement position is legal?
subtle fiber
You can still add back the autopilot cpack on these kind of maps?
unkempt garnet
In older LPACs, this egg would have been out of range, yet it got popped immedia...
Did the Airsac maybe get an orb on the hill? Looks like there are no snipers there
smoky pumice
You can still add back the autopilot cpack on these kind of maps?
You can, I specifically removed it because it caused like 2/3rds the lag in LPAC.
unkempt garnet
Oh, that quick help menu that shows what eggs, rocks and boosts do looked really pixelated (made it unreadable, probably due to my UI being small) but thought I should bring it up anyway
smoky pumice
One other thing, egg placement seems to happen on mousedown, which means that if...
if(GetMouseButtonUp(0 true)) is the first part of the check, it should be happening only on mouse-up. Yeah, I could add placement logic to the targeting UI.
smoky pumice
Oh, that quick help menu that shows what eggs, rocks and boosts do looked really...
You can change the size of it by clicking on the guide itself, that might help.
fair cypress
```if(GetMouseButtonUp(0 true))``` is the first part of the check, it should be ...
That's weird, because several times I inadvertently placed more than one, even while NOT clicking multiple times.
smoky pumice
That's weird, because several times I inadvertently placed more than one, even w...
I had it happen to me once in testing, I never managed to reproduce it. What is happening is the script that allows placement in range of a dark tower tries placing a unit every time you release LMB with that build unit selected, but all units occupy terrain and the check sees if terrain is occupied. So either MouseButtonUp is on a different frame than when the game normally places units or the position of the placement is slightly different.
Logic for both of those is a nightmare, I could add a button for disabling the script for placing units in dark tower range so players can choose to enable it but I can't think of another easy solution.
fair cypress
Chalk it up to an LPAC quirk 🙂
radiant tinsel
Very, very nice LPAC map. 10/10, love the updates.
fair cypress
Can this range be decreased somehow?
smoky pumice
Cycles after 10
glacial stone
I love the tweaks to this classic script
simple sinew
Great QOL upgrades.. love knowing what will happen with each upgrade and knowing where the rock is hitting is great.
slow flare
I very much approve of the QOL
and also being able to place in dark zones
My only note is that I would maybe make the dark tower scale exponentially instead of a flat 4 per up
fair cypress
You know much math? 😛
slow flare
The only reason I suggest that is that once I got the dark tower powered up, it was consistently behind my front line as I spammed every upgrade on it
the only other things that got an upgrade were the first 4 emitters. the first 3 were at 250 each
and the 4th one was only 150
and maybe not exponentially
but it absolutely needs SOME sort of long range scaling
unkempt garnet
but it absolutely needs SOME sort of long range scaling
I was thinking while playing this map that it could be nice, so every 3 upgrades it goes up by double/triple the regular amount, then back to the reg for 2 more, then double/triple on the third...
Though I ain't exactly sure how easy it would be to add this, but it is prob pretty easy?
fair cypress
I was thinking while playing this map that it could be nice, so every 3 upgrades...
Then just slam in a few more lines of code in the next map you make 🙂
unkempt garnet
Well I haven't been making 4RPL stuff for as long as the people that have been making these 😅
Though I'm guessing you could do some simple math and use the < [0] thingys
Idk, I'll ask in #mapmaking_support when I get to the point of actually playing the map
smoky pumice
I was thinking while playing this map that it could be nice, so every 3 upgrades...
It is, but just on the lag it causes I didn't want it to be too powerful of an option. Also dark tower position is extremely important for its scaling, in this map it was placed poorly, so it might not be nearly as weak as you think.
slow flare
Honestly, even a flat 5 instead of a flat 4 would probably have solved the problem on this specific map
and dark towers are kind of op anyways
in pac
fair cypress
what exactly is "the problem" that needed solving?
this seems more a case of "I didn't like how this game implemented some mechanics and I'd have preferred if it was different"
unkempt garnet
what exactly is "the problem" that needed solving?
I don't think there is one, it's just that it seems people don't like how weak the dark tower boost is
fair cypress
hey Mr. Fire, jsut remembered something. I've always thought a sound effect when a user unit is granted might be handy?
unkempt garnet
hey Mr. Fire, jsut remembered something. I've always thought a sound effect when...
IMO that would be more annoying than anything else
fair cypress
just a small sound like a click or something?
unkempt garnet
A click would really annoy me if a sound effect plays every 15 in game seconds 😅
civic echo
I just wanted to mention something about the dark tower, I don't know if this was intentional or not, but you aren't able to place your things inside of the dark tower's range
unkempt garnet
I just wanted to mention something about the dark tower, I don't know if this wa...
You can in this map?
I’m pretty sure when I played it it was fixed so you can