udon-networking

[scenic sky]

xd

[strange token]

You shouldn’t need to sync the GetPlayers array because everyone in the instance runs a method that just erases the list and re-assigns all players that are currently there whenever anyone joins or leaves

[scenic sky]

hmm interesting

[strange token]

But you do need to find a way to sync that you updated the staff list after adding or removing someone

So two different arrays

Sync the staff one ye

[scenic sky]

to clarify is the staff array gonna be playerids ?

[strange token]

Yea that’ll be the most efficient

[twin portal]

it'll make it really easy to sync

[scenic sky]

right

[strange token]

No reason to sync strings when a single number suffices

[scenic sky]

so, how would i got about doing the GetPlayers one now? iv never done it like that before

all i got rn is this xd

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    void Start()
    {
        
    }
}

[strange token]

Hehe let me grab some docs

[twin portal]

https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/players/getting-players/#getplayers

var players = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];  
VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(players);

[strange token]

https://udonsharp.docs.vrchat.com/events/

[twin portal]

basically just have an array of type VRCPlayerApi[]; then every time you need to update it, you have those two lines kinda

one line to create an array that is the same length of the player count, then the actual GetPlayers call to fill the array

[strange token]

I forgot legos was lurking

He’s way more efficient of a tutor lmao

Ping me if y’all get lost!

[scenic sky]

thank you

[strange token]

https://tenor.com/view/crocosauruscove-crocodile-cool-gif-18257581

[scenic sky]

so, would i create my own array like the staffList[]?

[twin portal]

yes, you will need both

[scenic sky]

should it be priv or pub?

[twin portal]

one array is all players, the other is your admin list

[twin portal]

that depends if this script is going to handle what we actually do with this data, or a different one

probably just this one, no?

[scenic sky]

would i be right to assume we would be copying this data over to the VRCPlayerApI[] we made?

[scenic sky]

uhhhh good question

i didnt think that far ahead hmm maybe i can keep it all in one script

[twin portal]

probably best

[scenic sky]

usually i try to keep things in one script

[twin portal]

that's what the second line of that example does; the input of that function is the array, and it will fill it with the VRCPlayerApis of everyone in the instance

[scenic sky]

alright, so should i change the players to be playerList?

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;

    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        var players = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(players);
        
    }
}

context ^

[twin portal]

yes so... you'll want to change var players to just playersList, and change the GetPlayers function to also use playersList

we don't want var players because this declares a new variable, we want to actually keep the data for later

[scenic sky]

got it

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;

    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);
        
    }
}

[twin portal]

yep. so now whenever FindPlayers() is called, it will fill the playersList array with all players

[scenic sky]

okay, now the times we want to call this, would i be right to assume on join/leave and start?

[twin portal]

just join and leave is all that's needed, since OnPlayerJoined is called when you join a world anyway

[scenic sky]

alright, 1 sec

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;

    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }
}

[twin portal]

that'll do

[scenic sky]

okay, so everyone is updating their own local copy of the playerList correct?

[twin portal]

pretty much

so then you've got a couple of things to do now

[scenic sky]

right, so now I need to figure out how to add players in now for the staffList

this is the harder part xd

[twin portal]

the idea of it is easy yeah...

[scenic sky]

but the execution, not so much

[twin portal]

so you'll probably need the UI setup at this point

[scenic sky]

Yeah, ill need to create two UI refs i assume for regular players in the instance and a list of who is staff correct?

[twin portal]

yeah, you'll probably need some sort of way to display both lists

I haven't tried it, but maybe a ScrollRect that Instantiates some new buttons in the UI for every player?

[scenic sky]

i'v never done that before o.o

[twin portal]

either that or, maybe your arrow idea

[scenic sky]

maybe a combo of both, display the names, but have a button on the bottom to cycle through the available names

no extra buttons just 1 per list

[twin portal]

could start simple with the arrows and upgrade later if you want

it's all gonna be mostly up to you really

[scenic sky]

true

so i got these guys down right now
public TextMeshProUGUI staffUI;
public TextMeshProUGUI playerUI;

[twin portal]

that will be just the text display

[scenic sky]

mhm, i believe i will need a reference to the button text now?

[twin portal]

may not need a button reference, only if you want to modify the button itself

all you need the button to do is send an event

[scenic sky]

sorry i meant to change the text of the button

[twin portal]

then that would actually be the TextMeshProUGUI component that's on the button

[scenic sky]

like we got a list like this
Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
< player name >
pressing an arrow will change the button text to match the position in the array
so if we pressed the right arrow, we would be on the next slot
< Player 2 >
if we press the Player 2 button, itll do the logic

[scenic sky]

right so just 2 more refs xd

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}

[drowsy jackal]

Does anyone have a video or something explaining network synchronization and such? I think I saw one being posted a while ago.

[scenic sky]

i know this channel has a bit of content on networked stuff https://www.youtube.com/@PlayerBush001/videos

[fallow mountain]

#udon-networking message this?

imo this vid should be pinned btw

[scenic sky]

i never knew that existed

gonna watch shortly

100%

[fallow mountain]

discord exclusive (?)

[scenic sky]

anyone know how to cycle through an array?

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public void LeftArrow()
    {
        //Cycle back once and update the button text to match
    }

    public void RightArrow()
    {
        //Cycle forward once and update the button text to match
    }

    public void SelectPlayer()
    {
        //Perform the logic on the assosciated player
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        //Update the listUIs
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}

context ^^

[fallow mountain]

for loop
(idk the code i just know graph)

[scenic sky]

xd

fair enough

not sure if this AI solution is wise (i hate using AI for code help outside of debugging)

this is what it suggested

public void LeftArrow()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        return;

    currentPlayerIndex--;
    if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;

    UpdatePlayerButtonText();
}

public void RightArrow()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        return;

    currentPlayerIndex++;
    if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        currentPlayerIndex = 0;

    UpdatePlayerButtonText();
}

hmm it seems like it could work but i need to somehow use that index now in the list

[twin portal]

yes you'll want to keep track of an index that you're currently "looking" at the array with

[scenic sky]

ai right for once? lmao

[twin portal]

it's really annoyingly written imo

[scenic sky]

how would you right it?

write*

[twin portal]

well... just in a way that I personally write things, future-proofed when I add things later

[scenic sky]

hmm

now how would i make use of this index ?

would i be using a loop on the playerList array to match up the index ?

[twin portal]

no, you'd just access the index directly

[scenic sky]

oh?

[twin portal]

with playerList[currentPlayerIndex]

[scenic sky]

hmm

and im assumign i would grab the player's id from that too?

[twin portal]

from there you'll grab anything and put it in your UI where you'd want it

[scenic sky]

how would you write this?

[twin portal]

playerList[currentPlayerIndex] will be "this is the player we're currently wanting to display on the screen"

it's not bad to use AI because it's wrong. It's bad because you aren't going to learn from anything it shows you

[scenic sky]

yup

thats why i try to avoid it

i used to have a horrible habit of that

and i dont want to go back down that path

[twin portal]

it is more important that you understand what it's spit out at you there

[scenic sky]

im just having a hard time find the info i need and understanding it

yeah

[twin portal]

can you tell me what it's told you to do? what is that code doing?

[scenic sky]

i told me to create the currentplayerindex
then add these methods and said "You want the index to wrap around when it goes below 0 or above the array length."

public void LeftArrow()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        return;

    currentPlayerIndex--;
    if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;

    UpdatePlayerButtonText();
}

public void RightArrow()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        return;

    currentPlayerIndex++;
    if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        currentPlayerIndex = 0;

    UpdatePlayerButtonText();
}

then "This will change the playerButtonUI text to show the selected player’s ID (or name, if you prefer)."

private void UpdatePlayerButtonText()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
    {
        playerButtonUI.text = "No players";
        return;
    }

    VRCPlayerApi selectedPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
    playerButtonUI.text = $"Player ID: {selectedPlayer.playerId}";
}

then "Make sure the index resets when the player list changes"

public void FindPlayers()
{
    playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
    VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);

    currentPlayerIndex = 0; // reset index
    UpdatePlayerButtonText();
}

[twin portal]

that's right

though I don't forsee a condition where there will be no players in the instance

[scenic sky]

yeah

[twin portal]

so all your actual displaying of UI things will be in UpdatePlayerButtonText

playersList[currentPlayerIndex] will always refer to the VRCPlayerApi that we currently want to display places

might be good to cache this at the start of the function

[scenic sky]

instead of "playerButtonUI.text = $"Player ID: {selectedPlayer.playerId}";" itll be playerButtonUI.text = selectPlayer.displayName; i assume

[scenic sky]

true

[twin portal]

yep

this player actually may need to be a global variable

you'll probably want some sort of function later like SetAdmin, and it needs to know what player to set

would be very useful if a function like that could read the current value of selectedPlayer

[scenic sky]

i guess a good thing to ask now is, would it be needed to make the button text synced? or does it not matter and can change locally?

[twin portal]

I think that would be up to you, do other players need to be able to see what player the current admin is looking at on their permissions UI?

maybe not

[scenic sky]

doesn't really matter if they can see i think

[twin portal]

so probably isn't worth the effort to sync this part

[scenic sky]

yeah

[twin portal]

it will make more sense to sync the actual setting of admins later

[scenic sky]

mhm

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;
    private int currentPlayerIndex;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
    }

    public void LeftArrow()
    {
        //Cycle back once and update the button text to match
        if (playerListUI == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        {
            return;
        }

        currentPlayerIndex--;
        if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }
    public void RightArrow()
    {
        //Cycle forward once and update the button text to match
        if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
            return;

        currentPlayerIndex++;
        if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = 0;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

    public void UpdatePlayerButtonUI()
    {
        VRCPlayerApi selectPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
        playerButtonUI.text = selectPlayer.displayName;
    }

    public void SelectPlayer()
    {
        //Perform the logic on the assosciated player
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        //Update the listUIs
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}

this is what i got atm

[twin portal]

well, probably worth testing this far

you should now have all the kit to cycle through the usernames of everyone in the instance

[scenic sky]

right.. now to implement and test

thank you for the help so far, ill quickly set this up

to my understanding, this is entirely local atm

since non of this needs to be synced, for the players list that is

[twin portal]

that's right

[scenic sky]

oh yeah, i dont remember, what was the way to make the names get displayed vertically?

[fallow mountain]

vertically?

[scenic sky]

uhhhh

its a bit hard to explain

there was this way where it would make the names appear like this
Player 1
Player 2
Player 3

without it, it maybe appear like this
Player 1 Player 2
Player 3

if the name is really small like Rui for example it would display 2 names on the same "line"

in the mean time imma quickly test the cycling

[fallow mountain]

how are you updating the text? you can add a <br> after every player i guess https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.textmeshpro@4.0/manual/RichTextLineBreak.html

[scenic sky]

thanks that will probably work when i get to that part

[scenic sky]

can confirm that the button cycling is working

at least in client sim it is

im gonna check with build and test with rejoins and leaves

[drowsy jackal]

I was chatting claude ai about serialization and such. I want to make sure this is how it works with VRC networking? If somebody can confirm?

The OnPreSerialization and OnPostSerialization events occur only on the client that calls RequestSerialization() - they are local events that happen as part of the sending process.
Let me explain the complete network synchronization flow:
On the Sender's Side (Owner):

The owner calls RequestSerialization()
During the next network tick, their OnPreSerialization() is called
The data gets serialized and prepared for transmission
Their OnPostSerialization() is called with the result
The data is sent over the network to other clients

On the Receiver's Side (Other Players):

They receive the serialized data from the network
Their OnDeserialization() event is called
Note: Their OnPreSerialization() and OnPostSerialization() are NOT called

This is a key distinction to understand:

OnPreSerialization() and OnPostSerialization() are sender-side events only
OnDeserialization() is the receiver-side event

[scenic sky]

im not 100% sure but that looks accurate

[drowsy jackal]

Ye. I know AI can be mistaken on things. Just want to make sure I get the right picture.

[vapid pagoda]

Do you have plans to use Pre and PostSerialization? Personally ive never bothered with them

[scenic sky]

same

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;
    private int currentPlayerIndex;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

    public void LeftArrow()
    {
        //Cycle back once and update the button text to match
        if (playerListUI == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        {
            return;
        }

        currentPlayerIndex--;
        if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }
    public void RightArrow()
    {
        //Cycle forward once and update the button text to match
        if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
            return;

        currentPlayerIndex++;
        if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = 0;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

 public void UpdatePlayerButtonUI()
    {
        //selectedPlayer is the player that we are currently targeting based off the current index
        VRCPlayerApi selectedPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
        playerButtonUI.text = selectedPlayer.displayName + " ID: " + selectedPlayer.playerId;
    }

    public void SelectPlayer()
    {
        //Perform the logic on the assosciated player
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        //Update the listUIs
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}

this is what i got atm

seems to be working for the player list buttonm

it changes to the names as expected

i added the ID since in local testing on build and test has the exact same name so you would have no way of knowing

[drowsy jackal]

I might in the future. I am working to understand the theory/concept of how things like that works.

[fallow mountain]

this looks correct to me

[scenic sky]

what i need to do next is update the player list now based on who's in the instance, should be simple but probably isnt xd

[twin portal]

FindPlayers() should already be doing that, because it's being called in onPlayerJoined and OnPlayerLeft

[scenic sky]

sorry, i didnt explain proper, i meant update the UI

i was provided with this example by AI

public void UpdateListUI()
{
    if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
    {
        playerListUI.text = "No players in the room.";
        return;
    }

    string listText = "";
    for (int i = 0; i < playersList.Length; i++)
    {
        VRCPlayerApi player = playersList[i];
        listText += player.displayName;

        if (i < playersList.Length - 1)
        {
            listText += "\n"; // add newline except after the last name
        }
    }

    playerListUI.text = listText;
}

i didnt keep the " {
playerListUI.text = "No players in the room.";
return;
}"

seems like it is working

testing in vrc now

since it is handled locally i didnt slap it in ondeserialzation i just slapped it in on join/leave

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;
    private int currentPlayerIndex;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
        UpdateListUI();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
        UpdateListUI();
    }

    public void LeftArrow()
    {
        //Cycle back once and update the button text to match
        if (playerListUI == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        {
            return;
        }

        currentPlayerIndex--;
        if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }
    public void RightArrow()
    {
        //Cycle forward once and update the button text to match
        if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
            return;

        currentPlayerIndex++;
        if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = 0;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

 public void UpdatePlayerButtonUI()
    {
        //selectedPlayer is the player that we are currently targeting based off the current index
        VRCPlayerApi selectedPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
        playerButtonUI.text = selectedPlayer.displayName + " ID: " + selectedPlayer.playerId;
    }

    public void SelectPlayer()
    {
        //Perform the logic on the assosciated player
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        string listText = "";
        for (int i = 0; i < playersList.Length; i++)
        {
            VRCPlayerApi player = playersList[i];
            listText += player.displayName;
            if (i < playersList.Length - 1)
            {
                listText += "\n"; //Add newline except after the last name
            }
        }

        playerListUI.text = listText;
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}```

although. im not sure but the list may need to become networked, or at least include some sort of work around for when we start removing/adding people to it

when we choose someone from it to become staff we will need to remove them from it

and doing that only locally doesnt make much sense i think

maybe we call a networked event each time we add/remove someone from staff that will call for the list to be updated and within that update we cross check to see if the player is already staff or not, if they are then skip them from being added to the list?

[twin portal]

you'll "remove" them from the list by subtracting them from the admin list, which will need to be synced

[scenic sky]

the admin list needs to be synced correct?

also, when i "left" on the 2nd player client, it didnt update the text for me

i tried rejoining, nothing happened then i tried full closing the game and it still didnt update

hm

[twin portal]

yeah you'll most likely want to sync the admins, as all players will probably need to know who the admins are, one way or another

[scenic sky]

for both the button and the list as well

[scenic sky]

yeah i got that synced with [UdonSynced]

[twin portal]

hm, UpdateListUI should be taking care of that

[scenic sky]

here's the script

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using TMPro;

public class PlayerListHandler : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    [UdonSynced] public int[] staffList;
    private VRCPlayerApi[] playersList;
    private int currentPlayerIndex;

    
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI staffButtonUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerListUI;
    public TextMeshProUGUI playerButtonUI;


    void Start()
    {
        
    }

    public void FindPlayers()
    {
        //Whenever FindPlayers(); is called it will fill the playerList array with all players
        playersList = new VRCPlayerApi[VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerCount()];
        VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayers(playersList);    
    }

    public override void OnPlayerJoined(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
        UpdateListUI();
    }

    public override void OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player)
    {
        FindPlayers();
        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
        UpdateListUI();
    }

    public void LeftArrow()
    {
        //Cycle back once and update the button text to match
        if (playerListUI == null || playersList.Length == 0)
        {
            return;
        }

        currentPlayerIndex--;
        if (currentPlayerIndex < 0)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = playersList.Length - 1;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }
    public void RightArrow()
    {
        //Cycle forward once and update the button text to match
        if (playersList == null || playersList.Length == 0)
            return;

        currentPlayerIndex++;
        if (currentPlayerIndex >= playersList.Length)
        {
            currentPlayerIndex = 0;
        }

        UpdatePlayerButtonUI();
    }

    public void UpdatePlayerButtonUI()
    {
        //selectedPlayer is the player that we are currently targeting based off the current index
        VRCPlayerApi selectedPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
        playerButtonUI.text = selectedPlayer.displayName + " ID: " + selectedPlayer.playerId;
    }

    public void SelectPlayer()
    {
        //Perform the logic on the assosciated player
    }

    public void UpdateListUI()
    {
        string listText = "";
        for (int i = 0; i < playersList.Length; i++)
        {
            VRCPlayerApi player = playersList[i];
            listText += player.displayName;
            if (i < playersList.Length - 1)
            {
                listText += "\n"; //Add newline except after the last name
            }
        }

        playerListUI.text = listText;
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        UpdateListUI();
    }
}```

i think i could be having a out of bounds error too

if thats the case maybe the script is crashing and thats why its not updating

[twin portal]

ah I see what is

[scenic sky]

my guess is this line here

    {
        //selectedPlayer is the player that we are currently targeting based off the current index
        VRCPlayerApi selectedPlayer = playersList[currentPlayerIndex];
        playerButtonUI.text = selectedPlayer.displayName + " ID: " + selectedPlayer.playerId;
    }```

[twin portal]

that's it

[scenic sky]

it gets called when we leave/join

and the index is prob gone

when it gets called

so it crashes

[twin portal]

that's right. if you have index 1 selected, and a player leaves, then playersList will get updated to only have 1 player in it (index 0). When you try and access index 1 again, it'll crash

so whenever the playersList is updated, you need to reset currentPlayerIndex

[scenic sky]

good idea

the question is, how do i do it without breaking the button?

[twin portal]

well, what function updates the playersList?

[scenic sky]

FindPlayers() seems to be the one updating the playerList array

[twin portal]

that's right. If we reset the currentPlayerIndex there, it should avoid the issue

so how would you reset currentPlayerIndex?

[scenic sky]

setting it back to 0?

[twin portal]

that's right

should never have a problem if anything tries to access index 0 of that array

[scenic sky]

okay, that should work but here's my other concern

what should i do about the arrows and the player select button

if i change the index back to 0

wouldn't it screw that up if it was on a different index?

[twin portal]

then they'll keep working from 0.

those two functions don't care what currentPlayerIndex was before. All they do is modify its current value and operate from there

[scenic sky]

alright

[twin portal]

currentPlayerIndex could be a million and those functions will still handle it

rather, they should handle it

[scenic sky]

xd

quick question

is it bad/unneeded to call "UpdatePlayerButtonUI" in on join/leave?

actually. maybe that will be resetting name back to the first index anyways?

[twin portal]

if we didn't update it when someone left, then it could have an old player's username in the box even though they left

[scenic sky]

ahh right

[twin portal]

setting it to 0 will display the first player in the list, yes

if you want it to "stay" on a particular player, maybe if someone else left but they didn't, it'll take a little more logic

[scenic sky]

hmmm

im having two other issues rn

so currently, when client 2 leaves it does reset the name and index back to 0 which is good
however, it doesnt actually remove them from the array, i can still change the arrow and itll show them

the other issue is the client 2 isnt being removed either from the list

[twin portal]

well that's odd,

actually, it's possible the player is still in the list at the time of OnPlayerLeft

I can't remember the specifics of it

[scenic sky]

unless the script is crashing again or im missing something

[twin portal]

you may need to wait 1 frame later before running the events in OnPlayerLeft

[twin portal]

you should open your console in game and see

[scenic sky]

so should i do a sendcustomeventdelayedbyseconds?

[twin portal]

delayedframes yes

[scenic sky]

oh frames instead?

also i tested in clientsim, it removes all but the last player

[twin portal]

that's ideal, no?

[scenic sky]

like i had 4 clones plus main player, it removes all the clones except one

[twin portal]

oh ok

[scenic sky]

as you can see here ^^

ill try the delay

im assuming like this?

[twin portal]

that works

[scenic sky]

alright ill try rq

i just realized the time- i got work very soon. after this i gotta go, is it alright if we pick this up again later tomorrow?

and thank you for your patience and helping out! it's really appreciated

ayyyy the delaybyframes worked

iv never used that before so that is huge to learn

thank you

[twin portal]

no problemo

[hoary frost]

That is correct, onplayerleft is called one frame before the player actually leaves

[fallow mountain]

Would it makes sense to put SendCustomEventDelayedFrames into a new custom event lets call it UpdateListFlagger, it checks if isUpdatingListNextFrame is false and flags it true, and then SendCustomEventDelayedFrames to do UpdateChanges.
This way you won't run the whole thing and update the list multiple times in a frame in the first frame when you join an instance. Saves lag especially when joining.

and resets it next frame

but you might need to run it in order 1, so it can flag next frame again if there is an update in the same frame

[scenic sky]

Hey @twin portal are you available?

[twin portal]

sorta

[scenic sky]

fair, don't feel any pressure xd

[twin portal]

ask away and either me or somebody else will assist

[scenic sky]

alright

i believe the next part of the script i need to figure out is how to move a player from the playersList to the Staff List and sync the staff list. as well having everyone update their playerList after a change has been made

[twin portal]

sounds easy enough, you've mostly already got the foundation for it

got anything so far?

[scenic sky]

no, i just got on my pc xd

im just trying to think right now of how im gonna do it

i also need to add a condition to check if a player is already staff or not so they don't get added back

[twin portal]

well, you've already got a system that lets you select one player from the list of all players

now you'll probably need some sort of "Make Admin" button

[scenic sky]

yeah

and

should my staffList also be a vrcplayerapi[]?

i see i have it as a int[]

[twin portal]

no keep it as int[]; you want your staff list to have the playerIDs instead of the full VRCPlayerApis, so it will be easier to sync

[scenic sky]

ah okay

hmmm so updating the text logic will need to be different then\

[twin portal]

for the admin list, any time you need to actually access the associated player, you'll use GetPlayerByID

[scenic sky]

right

[twin portal]

interesting choice to use g as an iterator name

[scenic sky]

xd

[twin portal]

so to fix that error, you'll do GetPlayerById(staffList[g])

hmm. The staffList will also need to be dynamic in some way, shape, or form wouldn't it...

[scenic sky]

just for context, the section im updating is the display part

where it shows their display name

[twin portal]

that makes sense

[scenic sky]

yup

[scenic sky]

so in that case, what would i do if i wanted their display name instead?

[twin portal]

you would do that

[scenic sky]

since the id will be used in different part i think'

[twin portal]

you need to get the VRCPlayerApi to get their display name, no?

and we're storing the player's playerID in the staffList array

[scenic sky]

correct

[twin portal]

so to convert a playerID into a VRCPlayerApi, you use getPlayerById

[scenic sky]

so i havent actually done the id storing part

[scenic sky]

i must be doing it in the wrong format then

[twin portal]

might be working a bit out of order then XD

[scenic sky]

oops xd

wait does that actually work

i just guessed xd

[twin portal]

yes that should be right

[scenic sky]

(adding the VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById

alright so

now to get back on order

[twin portal]

later on you'll probably need to add some IsValid checks here

[scenic sky]

true

so this is what we used for making the list for the players

would i be right to assume we need to do something similar for the staff list?

and we should add a check here too

i think here,

the check to ensure we dont add a staff player?

[twin portal]

hmm maybe here

no matter what, GetPlayers is going to give you all players

[scenic sky]

maybe a loop to check the list to see if any of the players on the list are staff or not, if they are remove them?

[twin portal]

I actually think it might be easier to, internally, keep playersList to always have all players

[scenic sky]

oh?

[twin portal]

but when you display the list, and when you move through the next and back buttons, it skips over any admins

[scenic sky]

ahh i see ya

that brings us back here

[twin portal]

yes, so it's these buttons that need to check "the currentPlayerIndex I'm on, is this player an admin?"

[scenic sky]

so i think we stick the check right before we actually change the index

[twin portal]

ooooo you might have an opportunity here to use a pretty rarely-used type of loop.

[scenic sky]

whats that?

[twin portal]

a do-while loop

[scenic sky]

ohh

i have noteso n that somewher

i made note of it like this

[twin portal]

nice

[scenic sky]

its been a hot minute since iv used it xd

[twin portal]

a do-while loop runs its condition check after the body runs, rather than compared to a while loop that runs the check before the body

this makes sure the body runs at least once

[scenic sky]

interesting

[twin portal]

so for your arrows, we want it to increment/decrement at least once, just to move the menu. then we check what player we're looking at; if it's an admin, loop the body again to increment once more

with.... some sort of check to make sure it isn't infinite

[scenic sky]

xd

[twin portal]

because what if all players are admins? lol

[scenic sky]

okay lets see what we can do here

[scenic sky]

very possible

groups will likely have all their staff join first

and assign them

before inviting anyone else

anyways, im trying to think of how to frame this loop

trying to realllly think about this to understand

a quick question too, the arrow button is meant to be pressed one at a time, will doing this loop cause it to be spammed?

[twin portal]

the button won't be spammed, no

this will all happen with just one button press

[scenic sky]

alright

im trying to figure out what i need to do here

my example helps a bit

[twin portal]

agh, the adminList might make more sense as a DataList. but I don't know if you want to get into that

[scenic sky]

honestly, i have very little experience with DataList but i do want to learn it

since it seems really powerful

and more capable

it's very similar to a List</> isnt it?

[twin portal]

DataLists are essentially the answer if you need a dynamically changeable list of items

[twin portal]

preetttyy much

[scenic sky]

then yes

i wish List would be exposed already-

so useful

i got the docs up for datalist now

[twin portal]

wonder why they created DataList rather than just exposing List
probably some really interesting technical reason, alas

the con of using a DataList is it'll take a few more backflips to sync it. Compared to the int array being much easier

but if you wanna learn it, this would be a good time

[scenic sky]

ah

yes iw anna learn

alright i changed the staff list to a datalist now

[twin portal]

so let's worry about actually adding a player to the list at this point, then

[scenic sky]

alright

[twin portal]

we still probably want to store the playerIDs in the DataList

[scenic sky]

that would be here then

this is the part where we press the button in the middle < player name button >

[twin portal]

alright that works

so this function needs to, at least:

1. get that player we're selecting (the one with their name on the button)
2. store their ID in the admin DataList
3. sync this change with all players

[scenic sky]

yup

and side note

gotta fix this after xd

but thats later

[twin portal]

yeeaaaa put a pin in that one

or even comment it out

[scenic sky]

gonna control x and stick it here lmao

  //fix me
        string staffListText = "";
        for (int g = 0; g < staffList.Length; g++)
        {
            VRCPlayerApi staffPlayer = VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(staffList[g]);
            staffListText += staffPlayer.displayName;
            if (g < staffList.Length - 1)
            {
                staffListText += "\n"; 
            }
        }

        staffListUI.text = staffListText;

anyways, should we grab the info we need from the arrows or is that not needed?

well prob not since im assuming we are using the currentplayerindex?

[twin portal]

That's the correct assumption

Arrows have done their job, and now currentPlayerIndex is the player we have selected

[scenic sky]

i just took a guess of what i think i needed to do?

[twin portal]

That's basically it

[scenic sky]

is the check needed?

[twin portal]

Yes, because playersList is all players

[scenic sky]

its unlikely itll ever happen since the arrows will skip over staff i believe

but it doesnt hurt to have it

[twin portal]

Right you can never be too careful

[scenic sky]

i think we should also make button UI get updated and move the index over too

like the arrow

[twin portal]

That may make more sense to do once we sync

[scenic sky]

since that player would no longer be available

true

would it be wise to make a separate method to call for that then?

[twin portal]

For the syncing? Hmm

I'd have to review syncing the DataList, but we need the owner to edit the data and send it out; we might just SetOwner here and request serialization all from this function

[scenic sky]

from the selectplayer?

I'm assuming we will check if they are the owner or not and grant it if needed then perform the logic

I'm assuming we would then need a method to call from onDeserialization to sync it up

The buttons/ui that is

Since the datalist is UdonSynced it'll handle itself I assume

[twin portal]

actually...

you can't UdonSync a DataList

it's a little more tricky. But thankfully the docs have an example on how to do it

https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/data-containers/data-lists/#syncing-a-data-list-with-other-players-over-the-network

ideally, if you set it up right, it'll seemlike the list syncs automatically, as if it was UdonSynced

but there's a couple more steps involved

[scenic sky]

oh god

lets see

[twin portal]

essentially, you convert the DataList into a JSON string, and strings can be synced. You sync the string, then once it arrives, convert it back into the DataList

[scenic sky]

uhh alright

let's learn this

should i be copying this example logic?

oh yeah @twin portal i wanted to say this too, if we end up getting this working nicely and it survives the tests in the real world I am gonna make a video on making this from scratch as well as provided source code so that anyone else who wants a system like this can learn from it and in the video you would be getting mentioned because you are carrying this xd

[twin portal]

wouldn't be my first time being credited in other people's works

[scenic sky]

its deserved

you are the goat xd

[twin portal]

:P

[scenic sky]

anyways, i want to add comments for this

so that it makes sense of what they are doing

just trying to think of what i should put

[twin portal]

that's a very good idea
(you'd think examples would have more comments in them...)

[scenic sky]

true lmao

accurate or nah?

[twin portal]

pretty much

[scenic sky]

what about the pre?"

what exactly is it doing?

//Pack up the information on the Datalist and store it on the string so it can be synced

thats my assumption

[twin portal]

it's doing the opposite, it's converting the DataList into JSON and storing it in the string

[strange token]

Legos is the goat mhm

[scenic sky]

i haven't forgotten you either

:#

:3

[strange token]

👀

[scenic sky]

comments need to be a thing more often

helps people who have no idea what they are looking at or people for forget (me)

xd

[strange token]

I use comments religiously

[twin portal]

my code is usually like half comments

[strange token]

Taught a friend to do it and he thanked me because it makes his life so much easier lol

[scenic sky]

alright let's review what we got so far

that should be correct?

[twin portal]

yep, and you don't even really need to check if the local player is already the owner first. You just SetOwner and it'll steal it from whoever is currently the owner, current player or otherwise

[scenic sky]

true

i just have a habit

of doing that lol

this guy would be next i believe

this would be the other middle button

right button is our add player to staff button

left is remove player from staff button

[twin portal]

so you'll essentially need another Next and PreviousArrow buttons, but for the staffList instead

[scenic sky]

i believe we are gonna need 2 other arrow methods and another index

yup

[twin portal]

but the biggest difference being that this is a DataList instead of an array

well. if you wanted, you could just ToArray the DataList and then the stuff will basically be the same

[scenic sky]

oh?

what should i do?

i think we will be doing something similar anyways for that thing we need to fix

[twin portal]

so you'll still need an index that you're currently looking at

but to access the elements of the list, you'd use TryGetValue
https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/data-containers/data-lists/#trygetvalue

[scenic sky]

right

having a hard time formatting it

[twin portal]

right, it's a little weird, but see the example

so TryGetValue is a function that returns a bool if getting the value was successful or not

so most of the time, functions like this, you put in an if statement

in the example where the "0" is, that's the current index we'd want to look at

then you may need to know a little bit about DataTokens
https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/data-containers/data-tokens/

our DataList doesn't store our data directly, it stores it in what's called a DataToken. Most of the time, you get this Token, and then just get the value stored within it

[scenic sky]

alright

[twin portal]

the "value" variable in this example is our DataToken. To get its value as an Int, you'd use value.Int

[scenic sky]

mhm

[twin portal]

and then this would be our playerID! which you'd just GetPlayerById as normal.

[scenic sky]

right (brain hurts)

so

in our previous method

we are cycling through

in our new method

i assume we are cycling through as well so that we can grab the player id through the other method?

for context

im trying to do the staff arrow

but i think you were trying to help me with the remove buttonn

xd my bad

[twin portal]

lol

so instead of 0 in TryGetValue, that's our index, so currentStaffIndex would go there

[scenic sky]

i knew it!

xd

anyways

llemme try the remove button

im so close

just

messing it up a bit

is this correct?

[twin portal]

you don't need to cast value, it should have value.Int as a property

[twin portal]

it's case-sensitive

capital I

[scenic sky]

oosp

rookie mistake

[twin portal]

this should work, under ideal conditions

[scenic sky]

ideal conditions?

[twin portal]

if for some reason there is no value at currentStaffIndex, the DataToken will contain an error instead of the value expected

[scenic sky]

would 0 count as no value?

[twin portal]

no, index 0 would be the first element in the DataList

[scenic sky]

right

so, if we have no staff

will it break?

[twin portal]

believe so

[scenic sky]

so would it be wise to add a check?

chances are the staff list is gonna empty in a lot of instances

[twin portal]

that's why you want to wrap it in an if statement like the example does

[scenic sky]

better?

[twin portal]

kinda

[scenic sky]

kinda?

[twin portal]

you're still getting Value.Int, even if it were to fail lol

[scenic sky]

uhh

[twin portal]

so, if we try and get a value from the DataList, and it ends up failing to find a value at the specified index, what could have possibly happened?

[scenic sky]

i thought i was being smart but i guess not

[twin portal]

bit tricky to think about

[scenic sky]

uhhh player left

and we didnt reset it?

(the index)

[twin portal]

could happen! staffList doesn't yet remove an admin that left, does it?

[scenic sky]

no it doesnt

we reset our index here

and this is called when players join/leave

so.. im assuming we need to do somethign similar ?

when a player leaves we need to see if they are staff and if they are remove them reset the index?

[twin portal]

that's right

but then there was one condition that you mentioned earlier. What if there are no admins?

[scenic sky]

uhhh

shoot

[twin portal]

so... you'd need some sort of indicator to tell when the admin list is empty. Otherwise, even if we reset the currentStaffIndex to 0, it'll still try to access element 0 and fail

[scenic sky]

uhh right

one thing at a time

[twin portal]

I've got some ideas but I'll let you keep asking
but curious, if there are no admins, then who or how does someone get added to the admin list? Maybe by default, if the list is empty, the Master gets added as an admin? kind of up to how you want it

[scenic sky]

no, it wouldn't assign anyone by default since its meant to be a patreon thing so only people with access will be able to become the first (ill have to sort that out later)

[twin portal]

that probably makes things easier

[scenic sky]

like i want it to be a thing where if there is no staff and you are a patreon you can make yourself a staff
however if there is already staff it wont let you do it

[twin portal]

ok, so for future work, it'll be really useful to know if the list is completely empty or not

[scenic sky]

yeah

right so we have a few things to get sorted out

[twin portal]

you could add some checks with DataList.Count, and if it's zero, then you know it's empty

[scenic sky]

while we were talking i added this but im concerned that it will fail without the delay

but back on topic of what were doing

i need to fix this one

[twin portal]

so for this, you probably don't want to be removing the player unless you've found them successfully, no?

[scenic sky]

correct

this is what i reverted it back to

[twin portal]

so the section that removes the player, you probably want to move it to the "successful token" partof TryGetValue

along with getting the playerID from the token

[scenic sky]

like this?

[twin portal]

yep. and maybe even the RequestSerialization as well, since we don't need to request a sync unless we've actually changed something, right?

[scenic sky]

true

[twin portal]

that should work a bit better

[scenic sky]

great

now, is it time to move on to the arrows?

this is for the player list

but since we are using a datalist

it will need to be different right?

i believe we were in the middle of attempting a do while loop but decided to switch things up to the datalist

so we didnt actually finish it

[twin portal]

right

that function will work mostly the same, just with the DataList functions like Count instead of Length

[scenic sky]

right i got that part down

now im trying to figure out how to grab the players name

like this guy

i think i need to grab the token again

trying to think of how im gonna get the display name of the currently selected player id

maybe i need to grab the player id through the token then maybe do some kind of loop through all the players in the instance and if their id matches the token value then i grab their display name and update the ui with it?

no idea if that would work xd

[twin portal]

I think you'll do DataToken value -> Int -> GetPlayerById -> VRCPlayerApi.displayName

this would save you from looping the entire player list

[scenic sky]

uhhh trying to think how i would write that

is this right/

[twin portal]

yep

[scenic sky]

ayy

[twin portal]

though you store value.Int in staffPlayerID... but use value.Int in GetPlayerById anyway lol

[scenic sky]

oops

alright lets do a bit of review

these should be good

oh

gotta fix

this one

there we go

forgot to chabge it to staffindex

button ui should be good now

add and remove looking good

now some other topics of concern

1. we need to fix that issue in the UpdateListUI for the stafflist
2. do we need to reset the staffindex
3. for both the player and staff button we need to cycle it forward or back once we add/remove someone and sync it

 //fix me
        string staffListText = "";
        for (int g = 0; g < staffList.Length; g++)
        {
            VRCPlayerApi staffPlayer = VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(staffList[g]);
            staffListText += staffPlayer.displayName;
            if (g < staffList.Length - 1)
            {
                staffListText += "\n"; 
            }
        }

        staffListUI.text = staffListText;```

this was the broken one

how does this look?

[twin portal]

looks like it'll do something

[scenic sky]

something good i hope?

[twin portal]

:)

[scenic sky]

just working on problem #3 rn

it broke d:

error at line 229 object not set to an instance of an object

im assuming because staff has no one correct?

[twin portal]

that may actually be because the DataList needs to be initialized

[scenic sky]

oh?

how would i do that/

[twin portal]

I think all you need is, when you first declared the variable, just set it to = new DataList();

[scenic sky]

apologies for my lack of understanding

but where?

[twin portal]

that

that's the variable declaration

[scenic sky]

so this?

[twin portal]

yep

[scenic sky]

huh

oh

lag

[twin portal]

weird the example doesn't initialize it but I'm pretty sure you need to do that

[scenic sky]

lets see what happens

oh and i send a networked event for these guys whenever we add or remove someone

huh..

some weird stuff happening

[twin portal]

that's awesome

[scenic sky]

i saw a lot of failed to retrieve token

so from this test
the script is failing to skip over admins but it looks like i didnt even add that logic lol

but

it does manage to add them to the staff list

but the staff list ui doesnt update

aside of the button

i can remove all remote players but i cant remove myself, itll say failed to retrieve token

oh isee

[twin portal]

it may help to change the Debug.Log text from "Failed to retrieve token!" to just value.ToString()
since it failed, this will be an Error token, and doing ToString() on it will output the error description

[scenic sky]

it wont let me remove everyone it forces me to keep one

[scenic sky]

alright

[twin portal]

so Debug.LogError(value.ToString());

it makes you keep one? interesting

[scenic sky]

yeah

[twin portal]

you can do DataList.Clear() to remove all values from a DataList

[scenic sky]

alright added the logs

[scenic sky]

where and under what context should i do that

doing a quick test

to see what those logs produce

[twin portal]

well, if it forces you to keep one value, but you're trying to remove it, you can check if the Count is 1, and instead run Clear() instead of trying to remove it specifically

[scenic sky]

ah

this pops up on start up

when i spawn a remote player another one pops up

okay here is some info

i can add both myself and remote player

but it seems to break a bit when i try to remove both

okay so i added both

i can remove myself then when i try to remove last one it gets out of range error

but it still succeeded in removing it

interesting

because i can add it back

[twin portal]

so that's when it's fully empty, the Index is 0 of an empty list, so it's out of range

[scenic sky]

right

[twin portal]

which we foresaw before

[scenic sky]

so we need a safety check to prevent actions when it is empty correct

[twin portal]

yep, we shouldn't be trying to get any values if the list is completely empty

[scenic sky]

so should i do an if stafflist.count == 0 return?

[twin portal]

could do, maybe additionally make it say "Empty" or "no players in list" when it's empty

[scenic sky]

so that + return?

[twin portal]

yep, or wrap the whole current function into an if statement

if staffList.count !=0 -> do normal stuff
else -> display it empty

[scenic sky]

ah

[twin portal]

return works but it's not a good habit to have, imo

[scenic sky]

why is that?

[twin portal]

some would disagree, but I find it makes the code a bit more unreadable; additionally, return, break, and continue are often used by those starting out learning to code as a shortcut, when they should really be writing proper logic for it to work without needing these statements

[scenic sky]

ah i see

understandable

[twin portal]

my earliest coding stuff used try-catch to wait for a specific error to happen, then continue the code. it was bad

[frozen igloo]

that's a hot take

I'm sure there's weird ways you could use those return, break and continue but that doesn't mean the function itself is bad. Many of the best examples of clean code practices utilize them to great effect. Guard clauses are a good example

[twin portal]

definitely

certainly not saying not to use them, but when used poorly it can make things flow in an odd way, and in some cases as I've worked on it makes it harder to modify later

[frozen igloo]

I'll take a dozen guard clauses over a dozen nested if's any day

[twin portal]

like you could have a while(true) loop, and just run it forever, until a certain condition you check for happens, then you do return or break or whatever. but wouldn't it be easier to have this condition be the loop's condition instead?

guard clauses are a good example of return.... but I tend not to do them because I actually like having the nested ifs lol

[frozen igloo]

That's a valid point but only true if you can calculate the condition within a small space. Sometimes you put stuff inside a loop which requires multiple operations and conditions and then returns or breaks or continues. It's not necessarily a good thing to just scrunch all of that into the loop condition

[twin portal]

many ways to fry an egg

[frozen igloo]

here's an example: if I'm iterating through two different arrays and want to ensure that my script doesn't crash, you could break if i is out of bounds of the second one, or you can just build the condition into the for loop. For that specific case I'd absolutely agree with you that break is not the best way to fry that egg - but that's not an indicator of break being bad, just that this is a poor use case of it

[twin portal]

yeah that's a better way to put it. They are not bad, they can just be used poorly

[scenic sky]

well, this is all the time i have for today we made huge progress. There is some issues that need sorting out but thats a next time thing

issues i spotted

• We need a way to skip over players who are staff when using the player button arrows
• The staff list UI pastes the same player name over and over again when adding new staff instead of the added players name
• I think there is some UI issues but ill dive deeper into that tomorrow

Thank you for the help again @twin portal i think we are very close

[twin portal]

no problemo 👍

[brisk magnet]

Ive been reading the docs and it says that vrchat prioritizes network on objects that can be seen by the player. What does this mean for objects that contain network data or activity, but do not have a mesh renderer? do they lose priority?

[cold laurel]

Can you link to the page where it says this?

[brisk magnet]

https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/udon/networking/network-details/

[tulip sphinx]

wish their docs had git-like public change history, cause the first time seeing this part for sure.

[brisk magnet]

I've been combing over all of them to try to explain the odd bugs I've been having and this stuck out to me as at least 10 networked scripts in my game do not have mesh renderers and exist purely to save bandwidth so I can sync data in groups rather then the entire game each time.

Most likely cause is I've hit a limitation or bug in udon that's not comenly know. But I'm not done ruling other reasons out.

I think I'm going to just add mesh renders to all my objects and see if there's an impact.

[finite sierra]

that will cause a huge overhead. since each mesh render causes drawcalls. and i can tell you that there is zero difference in something that has a mesh render or not in terms of networking. i use several objects that are not shown. aka no mesh render nothing. and they are all the time loaded. obviously they are also always doing something

also note that is only says Udon periodically checks the visibility of all mesh renderer children of synchronized objects

aka only objects that have a Object Sync on them.

[brisk magnet]

Not nessisary, in my case the scripts are reporting data sent but clients are not getting the data and I'm trying to rule out weather or not it's beacuse of the above.

The seemingly random occurance would support it

But i am just taking shots in the dark as I don't have any crash logs or reports of any errors from udon

Its odd the 2 days ago I played 20 consecutive games with several players no issues last night by the 2and round the bug was constant

[finite sierra]

yes it will... each Mesh render causes extra load. thats just how it works.

[brisk magnet]

I'm not referring to the load

And if it turns out to be the reason the the extra load is just a cost I'll have to eat

[finite sierra]

what exactly are you trying to do that that makes you concerned of prioity?

[brisk magnet]

Its not what I'm doing it's what udon is doing. Its a very un explainable bug with no hard steps to reproduce and no known consistent trigger conditions so I'm systematically ruling out any possible cause. And so far I've brought it down from an 80 percent occurance rate down to somtimes 0 percent for those reasons I think my line of thinking will eventually lead to a solution. This is just the next item on the list to check.

I'm planning on remaking the game with a new design all together. But I'd like to learn why the current one fails first

And udon reporting a failed sync as successful and not clogged is just interesting to me

[finite sierra]

what kind of failed sync? manual or on cont?

[brisk magnet]

Manual

Its not reporting that it's failing but clients are not getting the data or getting events from the serlization

Another interesting factor is that the client who takes ownership of the main game (not the bugged object)

Has an impact on weather it happens or not.

But I've ruled out instance master being an issue i thought it was at first but logs have scince proved otherwise

I've alao ruled out high ping got an aussie friend help me with that one

Also specifically in local offline testing. If the first client window to finish loading. Is the one to take owner ship of the main game. The bug will never happen. That's the only constant I have. And why i initially suspected some kinda ownership issue related to master

[finite sierra]

as in not getting the events what do you mean? does it not trigger on Deserialize? or does it trigger it?

[brisk magnet]

Correct remote clients do not fire the on deserilization event at all. I'm addition to not getting the data despite on post serilzation reporting sucsess along with correct bytes sent. On the sending client

[finite sierra]

and in the mean time do you change ownership?

and have you actually checked if it fires it ? by just putting in a Debug.log into it?

[brisk magnet]

Never only on game start every object has a specified owner

[finite sierra]

right but the first person that joins will always get ownership of all objects

[brisk magnet]

Yup and then the first time a client interacts with the one object assigned to them they will get ownership of it

[finite sierra]

right. make sure that they actually have the ownership before you start doing anything with it.

[brisk magnet]

Logs say they do every time

[finite sierra]

aka wait til its confirmed on the client & Previous owner

logs as in what logs? some you made yourself? or are you just watching when ownership changes aka the number that says who owns it?

[brisk magnet]

I've allready ruled out ownership issues. Even made a script to pre emptivly flag objects that don't have the right owner far ahead of time it never trips

[brisk magnet]

Both

[finite sierra]

and those objects do they have any udonsynced things in them?

[brisk magnet]

Yws

Yes*

[finite sierra]

and it does not Trigger OnDeserialize to other people what so ever? even if the object never changed owner etc?

[brisk magnet]

If the bug is active yup but most of the time the scripts all work exactly as intended this bug is seemingly random

[finite sierra]

im curious to know if it only happens to objects that changed ownership recently.

[brisk magnet]

But once it happens one time it will continue indefinitely unless the game is reset

[finite sierra]

it diff feels like something on your end that causes it. but thats just me shooting in the dark.

have you tried to replicate it in a fresh new project?

[brisk magnet]

Well out of 100 tests or so there's only been one time it's not happened out of the gate

[finite sierra]

and test with very simple things?

[brisk magnet]

So it's possible that something in the start sequence is the trigger

But I have an older version of the game with an identical start sequence that does not have the bug

[finite sierra]

that uses a previous version of the SDK?

[brisk magnet]

There both on the same version

[finite sierra]

right.

soo the issues are likely rooted in how you are handling some things.

if your older version does not have the issue

[brisk magnet]

The main change was a ui change also the old code was a spegatii mess of things not being factored properly

And it's odd that that's the version that works

[finite sierra]

oh and udon sharp or graph?

[brisk magnet]

Udon sharp

[finite sierra]

okay so just to go over it again tell lme step by step how does it happen? what do you do to trigger it?

[brisk magnet]

All I did was refactor the code pack the functionality into relatable functions

[brisk magnet]

Haven't figured that one out if I invite you to the world we might play all day and never see it. We might also not be able to finish a single game beacuse of it

[finite sierra]

right.

[brisk magnet]

But it happens a he'll of a lot more often in offline testing

[finite sierra]

the offline testing isnt really replicateable to online as it never does seem to do the same.

so just to get it right. Does it happen more if a object changed ownership or does it happen more if a object has not changed?

[brisk magnet]

It does not seem related to ownership change. Ownership changes only occur once per game and I've seen it happens suddenly 40 moves into the game

Reseting the game can somtimes clear the bug

But usually the bug will keep repeating unless a different client becomes host

Usually if let's say client a was host the bug happens for everyone except a

Then client b resets the game and owns it the bug will happen for no one

But if client a starts the game next time the bug will be back again so it seems detriministic on who owns the game

But most of the time it just doesn't happen at all

[finite sierra]

it might be something in the host that causes the issue. if changing host can fix it.

or sometimes can

[brisk magnet]

Yea i just don't know what host attribute is the cause

And why a very similar version of the game is not affected

And it's only a single function of the game affected

All other 80 network scripts including the other instances of the bugged one continue to work

[finite sierra]

well you just gotta debug everything the host does then. and see if the expected things happens or not.

[brisk magnet]

Yup been at it for 2 weeks now never had the same trigger conditions more then a few times

And it's hard to test for beacuse of how rare it's become

But considering that users have a chance to have it constantly happen on an random day I don't consider it acceptable to leave it in

I should note changed i made to improve the issue had nothing to do with networking witch i can't explain

[finite sierra]

well thats kinda just how annoying it is to use Udon because its hard to really create proper test and have the data at hand. cause well we cant really ask every person to submit a bug report when it happens

[brisk magnet]

Like I did things like re route the code path. Search for object with a loop rather then using a direct reference etc

Things like that I made dozens of macro changes that have an impact and I still haven't ruled out the execution path starting on a prefab

Beacuse I've had very funny things happen with prefabs in the past

Things like the gc deciding to recycle stuff still in scope.

[finite sierra]

GC will never do that.

[brisk magnet]

I can send you a project file that says otherwise when I get home

You can check with the frame debugger

The fix is the force the value onto the heap where the gc can't get at it

[finite sierra]

then it wasn't in scope. or actively used.

[brisk magnet]

The gc ate it the same frame it was allocated

Verified with frame debugger

You can see the value appear then go null after the gc call

[finite sierra]

that would only ever happen if it was deemed as a object that is no longer being used.

otherwise that is a pretty major Udon bug.

[brisk magnet]

Yea.. it is but it's easier to work around then what I'm dealing with now

Once I figured out the values are safe on the heap I just kept all the data in size 1 arrays

[finite sierra]

also are you potentially talking about Temporary objects? not fixed like on Variables?

[brisk magnet]

Nope just prefab that were spawned with scripts on fhem

The scripts would lose al data not stored as a pointer

[finite sierra]

right but how? because if you dont use a Variable it will always be considered a Temp value.

[brisk magnet]

But in this new project the prefabs are free placed

And ofc I'm not getting the gc issues on this project

I've just noted that I've confirmed udon has bugs relating to prefabs in the past and I haven't ruled that out yet

For this particular project

[brisk magnet]

I tried to use it right away and it was allready null

[finite sierra]

depends on how you instantiate them. and if you store the reference to them or not.

right. could you tell me how your code looked?

[brisk magnet]

I can send you the whole project later

All you have to do is replace the arrays with normal declarations and it will happen

[finite sierra]

i assume you did something like GameObject temp = instantiate(prefab) etc?

[brisk magnet]

Yup again mind you when you get the project it will allready be fixed so you'll hace to break it again but it's not hard to do

Its on my PC at home and I'm still several hours before I'm home again for the day

[faint rock]

What's the correct way to move an object in a single frame without it tweening it between the two positions for other users?

[finite sierra]

yea just fyi doing it that way only temporary assigns them. but then again would not surprise me if udon has issues there.

[brisk magnet]

Just modify its transform position directly with a sync variable

And have remote clients move it when they run on deserilization

[faint rock]

That sounds like it adds a load of complexity due to possible edge cases. Can the tweening/smoothing mechanism not be disabled temporarily?

[brisk magnet]

The references are kept and stored by external scripts

[twin portal]

is this on an object using ObjectSync?

[faint rock]

@twin portal Yes

[twin portal]

call FlagDiscontinuity() to disable the smoothing for that frame, then do the teleport as normal
https://creators.vrchat.com/worlds/components/vrc_objectsync/

[brisk magnet]

But I also suspect that my issue stems from the number of scripts and the long reference chain so as sinful as it may be im thinking of packing all 3k lines of code into mostly 1 scripts just to see what happens

[faint rock]

That's the one, thanks. Someone mentioned it ages ago but I couldn't remember what it was.

[finite sierra]

WAITT HUH TL;DR: You can now specify up to 8 parameters on custom network events sent via SendCustomNetworkEvent. All types supported by Udon Sync work. In UdonSharp, you need to use the new [NetworkCallable] attribute. Your existing Udon scripts will continue to work without any changes.

we are getting Parameters nowww?

its in the open beta

[twin portal]

das right

[foggy jackal]

heck yeah!

[finite sierra]

dam finally we can actually do alot more proper things.

wait Total outgoing data is hard-capped at approximately 18 KB/s. This includes all network overhead however, so in practice it is unlikely you will see more than 8-10 KB/s. ???? we are getting a upped limit to 18 kb/s now?

[twin portal]

ooo. the order they are received is also guaranteed

idk if that's actually new

[finite sierra]

Maximum configurable rate: 100 events per second this is actually pretty nice.

i only need maybe 1-3 events per person per second.

[twin portal]

the max is 100 but it also states that there is a global overall limit of 100 sent per second, which may change in the future

[finite sierra]

yeea but 100 a second is quite alot

[brisk magnet]

Can it be used in live worlds rn?

[twin portal]

yep

[brisk magnet]

Well i might aswell try that to see if it works better before I nuke the project file again xd. Do I need to do anything special to make them usesble in my project?

[twin portal]

you just need the beta SDK

[brisk magnet]

Awesome is there any info on what the timeline is from beta to release state?

[finite sierra]

seems like it? but i would make a seperate version for Beta only. so you dont have any issues with the live one

[frozen igloo]

Open betas usually last between 2-4 weeks, can be extended if still iterating on issues

[finite sierra]

actually question that 100 Events Limit is Global as in a total 100 events can be in Queue on the network correct? regardless of player?

[brisk magnet]

Oh in that case I have very little reason to not early adopt as my world may take me longer then test to finish still

[brisk magnet]

I've allready got a whole new project file started if anything goes wrong I'll just jump ship for the new one as allready planned my current release is allready a beta with issues anyway.

I'll upload to a new private world first so I don't downgrade what's up there tho

[finite sierra]

okay i might be dumb here but i never used the open beta how do i get it through the SDK?

[foggy jackal]

you have to enable pre-release versions in whatever package management tool you use

[finite sierra]

oh yea i found it

[brisk magnet]

8 params is perfect I only need 3 of those

Are we allowed to pass references to entire udon scripts?

Or just prims

[twin portal]

only the syncable types can be used

[brisk magnet]

Ah ok not a big deal

[strange token]

I want to be excited about the update but it takes so much work for my brain to learn when to and when not to do shit that it’ll just confuse me for months 😂

[twin portal]

docs are pretty solid for the new stuff, I'm digging it

[brisk magnet]

Mind tossing a link to the new stuff

[foggy jackal]

it's in the beta notice

[twin portal]

it also looks like there are some additional errors for the events; it'll now actually give you an error if you tried to call an event that doesn't exist (no more guessing if you spelled that event name wrong)

[twin portal]

https://vrc-beta-docs.netlify.app/worlds/udon/networking/events/

[brisk magnet]

Ty ty

[fallow mountain]

There is no limit on the amount of queued messages
Uh oh, is there a way of clearing the queue if it exceeds too much? I can imagine it is very easily triggered if someone is spamming their mouse in an FPS game, but the queue gets filled up and fires at max rate per second, but the player stops clicking, but the queue is gotten so long that the gun keeps firing non-stop...

Or do we need to manually do checks to prevent the events from sending more than the max rate?

[frozen igloo]

Yes that's one of the many footguns that come with the territory of reliable network events

[twin portal]

docs do warn

There is no limit on the amount of queued messages, so be careful not to send messages too quickly indefinitely as that will cause issues with all Udon networking in your world.

but if you use the MaxEventsPerSecond, you can restrict how many calls to this function there is per second

[fallow mountain]

i guess it is just a matter of checking if NetworkCalling.GetQueuedEvents is less than the maximum, and only sends if true
btw can we get a NetworkCalling.GetMaxEventsPerSecond for easy checking? Or better yet, a NetworkCalling.GetIsQueueFull?

[frozen igloo]

There is no limit on the amount of queued messages

any limit you impose is entirely up to the specific demands of your context-specific code

[fallow mountain]

interesting

[brisk magnet]

So if I want 60 very small 1 byte events per second in shorts Burts between 20 or so players will it be able to accommodate?

[fallow mountain]

Ok another question: does sending with NetworkEventTarget.Self work if the sync mode is none? Because this can effectively be local events with parameters, isn't it? So we can potential use this in non-networked scripts? And saves some amount of variables if we need to pass some stuff between custom events? Would it make sense performance wise, or is making variables the "traditional" way faster? (in udon graph)

[brisk magnet]

Just to clarify in my example 60 per second total across all 20 players not 60 per

[frozen igloo]

60 events per second is a good use case for batching multiple events together

[frozen igloo]

oh, with networking in vrchat we typically talk about rate limiits in terms of outbound from a single player - each player is independently rate limited. So if that's only 3 events per second per player, that's not so bad

[brisk magnet]

Oh perfect the reason is, I want my game to go as fast as the players are able. And I imagine as players get experienced they will be able to do 3 to 4 moves per second each. For periods of the game.

I except 4 players per table with 10 tables in one world.

Is the goal even thinking of doing a 10 player table in the future but that might. Not be possible will have to see

But ofc it's not going to be that rate constantly but the game can't accurately predict when the windows for mass input will open

[frozen igloo]

single-digit events per second shouldn't have any problem at all as long as the data is small

[brisk magnet]

Yea it's going to be 1 byte to 30 bytes in worse case per request

I could make it smaller if needed with some bit shifting shenanigans

[frozen igloo]

30 bytes is very reasonable for a network event. It'll probably take more than that for the overhead of the event itself anyway

[brisk magnet]

Yea I'm not running into many bandwidth constraints but I'm trying to keep it as low as possible so I can have more instances of the game

[frozen igloo]

the limits are per-player so your only limitation would be if one person can play multiple games at once

I think in your specific use case, you should pay more attention to the code cleanliness than the bandwidth limitations. Network events have timestamps, use em ^^

[brisk magnet]

I'm leaning towards not allowing it. To save myself some mental work but it's. Not out of the question

I'm also thinking of having the option to allow one player to opt in as the host for a table without playing in the event they Wana help out other players with poor internet

[frozen igloo]

You should have ownership of the table not break if it transfers simply because that's a good networking practice and that will be more robust to sudden disconnects. But I wouldn't worry too much about specifically having that for the purpose of helping people out with bad internet.

[brisk magnet]

Yea it's in the nice to have bucket but not a priority

My game could handle disconnects mid game for most clients but not if the host leaves that's beacuse the host has state info. That dosint need to be synced beacuse only the host needs to calculate it. I could fix this with just a cost of 100 bytes per second on the game

Maybe I'm being over conservative with the data

[scenic sky]

Hey @twin portal you free?

[scenic sky]

grabbing this formyself

• We need a way to skip over players who are staff when using the player button arrows
• The staff list UI pastes the same player name over and over again when adding new staff instead of the added players name
• I think there is some UI issues

[twin portal]

wussup

[scenic sky]

working on the issues from yesterday now

im currently trying to set up a way to skip over staff on our button arrows

[twin portal]

ah right

can still use a do-while loop for that

[scenic sky]

i thought about that

probably better than what i was writing here

[twin portal]

you want to do -> increment the index, while -> player at current index != admin

[scenic sky]

i was starting to write this out but have my doubts

[scenic sky]

right

let's see what i can do

[twin portal]

since this isn't a loop, it will only increment once more if the current player is an admin

[scenic sky]

should i make a method for this or just use an if statement for the while part/

[twin portal]

I'd put it in this same function

[scenic sky]

kk

[scenic sky]

how does this look

shoot, i forgot the logic for the length

[twin portal]

I think you might have your bools backwards

[scenic sky]

probably

and it seems like i messed something up

[twin portal]

give isStaff a default value

either true or false shouldn't matter since it should be changed by the loop

[scenic sky]

true

are my bools incorrect?

[twin portal]

uuuh

[scenic sky]

i think they are right?

[twin portal]

should isStaff be set to false, if we DID find a player that's staff?

[scenic sky]

uh

we want the loop to go forward again if the player is staff

uh

i think... i did that?

[twin portal]

oh you're also flipping it in the loop condition

[twin portal]

that works

this and the old one would have ran the same, but now the name of the variable makes more sense

[scenic sky]

gotta fix bottom part tho

[twin portal]

yea you'll need a bit more actually

[scenic sky]

this should be better

[scenic sky]

?

[twin portal]

I sent that before the images lol I'm reading it

[scenic sky]

oh

[twin portal]

so, you probably want the bounds check before you assign selectedPlayer

[scenic sky]

right

[twin portal]

in fact you probably don't need to assign selectedPlayer until the loop is over

[scenic sky]

i thought i would need that to check for the staffList.Contains?

[twin portal]

ah I'm getting your two lists mixed up

this one has VRCPlayerApis, not the other that has just ints

[scenic sky]

yeah

[twin portal]

alright it's almost there...

this will still be an infinite loop if all players are admins

[scenic sky]

f- right

okay i just got the left arrow up to same spot

now

how to see if all players are staff

hm..

[twin portal]

might be better to do that check outside of the loop

[scenic sky]

yeah

maybe before the loop?