avatar-general

[upper remnant]

the problem is if it's unticked you have wrong values related to other layers

and if it IS ticked, which you must tick it to avoid the wrong values, you must design the state machine differently to persist values

[pearl moat]

@late sable did you update all of your animations to disable write defaults? Also are you sure you dont have it transitioning to itself over and over? Because of the new change i had some AnyState transitions that would repeat without me thinking about it. They now are constantly updating the value that was previously being written as default. So the animation played over and over.

(there are things still broken unrelated to that change even if you fix your animations for write defaults)

[upper remnant]

now, since they don't write defaults, you can use write defaults, as long as your layer order is fine and you animate stuff correctly

[fringe leaf]

are you using animator states to write values/data?

always saw it as a kind of read only sort of thing

[upper remnant]

the prior behavior was the choice-restricting one though. this current behavior, minus the apparent bug, allows you to use either option

[late sable]

@pearl moat All my animations were working before the update. After it they seem to restart over and over at the first frame. I haven't reuploaded anything since the update, only done "Build & Test" and with those ones I have tested removing "Write Default" from every single FX layer animation and the issue still persists.

Also I generally default to an empty state

[spare fox]

Well if they fix the bugs and I can keep using the way Ive been making things then I am fine

[late sable]

and then toggle to a variable that moves to the animation I'm wanting

[fringe leaf]

yeah. it reads values and sets animation blends and so on accordingly

[upper remnant]

no, you have both options

you are free to write defaults

you are free to not write defaults

[fringe leaf]

so surely write defaults doesn't matter - leaving an animation 'paused' but not in it's state of playing

[upper remnant]

if you choose to write defaults it will affect layers in a subsequent order

that's your choice now

[fringe leaf]

unless i guess you're using animators to toggle things on and off

[fluid grotto]

OK I’m think I’m confused about all of this does vrchat use write defaults for their own stuff currently

[fringe leaf]

i guess now you have to explicitly toggle objects off instead of like, assuming it'll go back to being off when you leave the state with the toggle-on anim?

[fluid grotto]

I never had to turn stuff back off when I return to default state

In av3

[fringe leaf]

neither did i

perhaps that is now the case? Either way in time all will be revealed

It's being worked on, as a guy said in #vrchat-general-2

[upper remnant]

@fringe leaf if you choose to not write defaults, yes you need to explicitly write property values. if you choose to write defaults, no, but you also need to animate with that in mind.

[fringe leaf]

yeah @upper remnant i've been doing the latter.

[fluid grotto]

Thanks for the answers that works backwards than I would’ve expected based on the name “write defaults”

[upper remnant]

same, because up until now, i've been forced to

[fringe leaf]

it would be kind of nice if they gave us a script to manipulate other components instead of having to rely on animations

like the other animators scripts

[fluid grotto]

Unity is all animations. They’d just be giving you scripts that ultimately need to drive animators anyway. Might as well make the animators directly

[fringe leaf]

well i mean animations at their core are for driving rigs. Setting boolean states of objects on you can be done elsewhere

i guess it's valid for continuous values of components e.g. a dissolve posistion

[upper remnant]

yeah you want to curve all sorts of properties

[fringe leaf]

hmmm... actually yeah i backtrack on what i said

i'll jus have a lil' break until they sort it all out

[bright pendant]

im just gonna make avatars like i normally do and if something doesnt work ill assume its the broken update and move on to another avatar

[late sable]

So is the problem with their toggle thing constantly restarting animations just a straight up bug then? It isn't a part of this default write business?

[upper remnant]

yes

[fringe leaf]

yeah no way it's related

[bright pendant]

yeah, its broken in many different and random ways

[fluid grotto]

Yeah the animation curves for blending between two values is OP. If your animations are mostly checking and unchecking checkboxes, yeah it probably all feels a little overkill

[late sable]

Okay, because that went back and forth there for a bit lol

earlier up at least

[spare fox]

Well I got my answers :P

[fringe leaf]

nah we're discussing like the differences in driving logical states of objects with an animator system DW on vs DW off

the broken shit is mostly unrelated

[spare fox]

I still think they should have tested this instead of pushing it to live

[fringe leaf]

i got a friend that does a bunch of unity development for VR too, and for him they'll test and test and test to hell and back and when it's perfect

merge to master

[fluid grotto]

My confusion for write default is it does the opposite of what you think it does. Not writing defaults does what I assumed writing defaults does

[fringe leaf]

Broken.

[quiet tundra]

how many time the vrchat sdk will notify me after auth

[fringe leaf]

it just happens sometimes

[spare fox]

Classic software development, I guess it is just wishful thinking from me

[late sable]

If WD writes the state of your animator to each frame, doesn't that mean as a temporary fix if the only thing I do is toggle appear stuff through fx layer it would rectify the current issues by toggling every single WD off?
So while WD isn't the issue, because it should do as it does, it's something else they do with it?

[small crescent]

so.. did they atleast fix the host chair bug thats been in the game for 4 months now?

[bright pendant]

i heard something about the sdk now being flipped to how it normally worked

its a bug

[late sable]

S,,s

[red pilot]

How the hell did they not catch this in bugtesting

[pearl moat]

still waiting for some word on the parameters not working. like should I be removing my custom parameters? 🙁

[fluid grotto]

How the hell did they not catch this in bugtesting
@red pilot probably something to do with them advertising their need of a QA position.

[red pilot]

So i've tested with my 3.0 avatars that i've uploaded, and all of them seem to work correctly on my end except for the most recent one that i've made

[rotund fern]

I only noticed the issues after the update, but some of the avatars I've made prior are broken as well.

[fringe leaf]

one thing i noticed was my avatar descriptor in the latest SDK seemed a bit messed up

i made a new one and manually copied stuff

[spare fox]

It seems like this bug might be throwing a ton of errors aswell, everytime I use my 3.0 avatar my fps drops significantly.

[fringe leaf]

there was like an empty entry in the playable layers section

and the layers were organised wrong

there's also two Tpose slots

[red pilot]

Double domination

[fringe leaf]

halo music intensifies

[red pilot]

yeah, i'm gonna do some testing with my sister once she has time and see how our avatars were affected on each other's ends

[fringe leaf]

yeah the desync is spoopy

[fluid grotto]

So i've tested with my 3.0 avatars that i've uploaded, and all of them seem to work correctly on my end except for the most recent one that i've made
@red pilot I find that all of the issues lately are due to how other people see you. my avatars all work perfectly for myself. Annoyingly, I also see them work perfectly for others.

[frigid goblet]

where do I go to look up avatar bases, I am still looking for a v e r y specific base

that I really wanna use etc

[fringe leaf]

uhhhh gumroad, the japanese site i forget... booth?

lots of model bases available

[frigid goblet]

alright, thanks

[fluid grotto]

booth.pm for animes

[frigid goblet]

do you have alot of bases? maybe you know which one im looking for? I have an image of it

[fluid grotto]

gumroad for more western content

[fringe leaf]

what adeon said yes

[frigid goblet]

looking for a specific anime boy uwu

[fringe leaf]

i only really know furry ones 😉

[fluid grotto]

Mood

[frigid goblet]

what specifcally do I search?

[fluid grotto]

VRChat eboy avatar

[fringe leaf]

uhhh idk, only you know what you want

"VRchat" is a good start

just scroll through and look

[red pilot]

This is the most VRchat conversation I've witnessed on here

[fluid grotto]

I would wear more anime avatars if they weren’t all female 🤔

[frigid goblet]

should I add base

I have a few good ones!

male ones

[red pilot]

You know what I hate the most

[frigid goblet]

so no like "VRchat base" or anything just VRchat?

[fluid grotto]

base isn’t really a word people advertise with

[red pilot]

Looking in avatar worlds for, let's say... a cartoon character. You find the pedestal of the character you want, the thumbnail is just a screenshot of the character. You click on it and... it's an anime girl.

[frigid goblet]

oop

[red pilot]

As hilarious as the concept of Marvin The Martian as an anime girl is, it's not what i'm lookin for

[fluid grotto]

Ah yes clickbait blueprints

[floral rock]

Oops, all anime!

[fringe leaf]

clickbait blueprints 😂

[late tartan]

Nah the worst is when you go to click on an avatar and a sign comes up saying "Reserved for _______"

like, why put it in the world then???

[fluid grotto]

They set it to private and forgot it was in a World probably

[frigid goblet]

I still have yet to find my baase

its just a hooded anime boi with ears and a tail and hood over its hands

[fringe leaf]

buttery biscuit base

idk man do your own research

[red pilot]

That's like 70% of the anime boys i find

[fringe leaf]

we gave you websites, go look

[red pilot]

Go on a wild, magical quest for the basic anime boy avatar

[fringe leaf]

catboy though?

[frigid goblet]

ive been doing research for the past 3 days

[fringe leaf]

....wolfgirl?

oh god

[frigid goblet]

I put them in #avatar-help

[red pilot]

"On all levels except physical, I am a wolf."
"ʸⁱᵖ"

[fringe leaf]

[frigid goblet]

I keep coming back here everyday that my pc wont updaye

Update*

[fluid grotto]

They used be be called nekos but that might be me being a boomer

[red pilot]

Honestly, i don't really care what they're called

It's a girl that's half cat, call it whatever you wanna call it

[fringe leaf]

you can be whatever the hell you want to be as long as you're a nice person

🖐️

[fluid grotto]

Cat with human nose and ears please

Wait that’s cats movie

[fringe leaf]

LOL

[red pilot]

Ooooh thanks for the terrible idea

I should make that right away

I'll put it in my bucket of terrible ideas, in-between Toad with human proportions and Saberspark's Moses lion

[fringe leaf]

👌

[dark cave]

anyone want to play I play on pc

[craggy mirage]

Not until they fix my avatars

3 weeks of effort wasted

[dark cave]

what happened to them

[primal pond]

all 3.0 avatars are extremely buggy since the recent update

animations being nearly completely unusable if they use sounds and particle systems

[small crescent]

so the only things that broke on my avatar was ~~my marker and ~~the gravity on my dynamic bones is different now

atleast locally, not sure if its different over network

[strong tree]

They used be be called nekos but that might be me being a boomer
@fluid grotto the catch-all term is "Kemonomimi" (Animal-ears), Kitsune (Fox), Nekomimi (cat-ears) are more specific terms ;)

yep, I thought most of my avatars are not affected, but some are, sadly :/

[open reef]

rude bot

[pearl moat]

@small crescent most likely any expression parameters you use are broken. 🙂

[small crescent]

@pearl moat https://imgur.com/a/483G7gb looks fine to me, at least locally

[dapper hearth]

We can install the new sdk on top of the old one, right?

[primal pond]

avatar 3.0 sdk, yes

just make sure to make a backup

[pearl moat]

@small crescent locally is the key word there. Most likely others won't see the same things.

[small crescent]

ye true

[neon finch]

toggles are just broken in general

I swear these updates are always 1 step forward 2 steps back

What toggles? I checked my avatars and my toggles are fine. Can you give more detail and if you can reproduce the issue please post it on the canny for investigation.

[vernal harness]

when i ported my pc avatar to be quest compatable (using some video tutorials i found online) when i selected it on quest it was only the model and none of the textures, am i dumb or what did i do wrong?

[neon finch]

Does the model have textures in unity in the android platform mode?

[vernal harness]

yes

let me take a screenshot

oh i cant post it

[neon finch]

I have heard of a few 3.0 avatars having weird things with materials, textures and stuff with the recent update. But I haven't confirmed it at all. That could be the problem or it could be something else

[vernal harness]

can i post a screenshot somewhere and can you let me know if IM doing anything wrong? just at a glance

i think im actually slow

im good

i figured it out i think

[ionic forum]

Toggles, rig animations, material animations, and transform animations seem to work correctly at least for me. Particle and audio animations are often bugged up. (apart from the other bug where animations and voice can completely break for others)

[acoustic thistle]

truly one of the wackiest updates in history

[neon finch]

My toggles seem to work fine, rig animations work fine, material animations work fine, particles seem to work fine, I can confirm an audio trigger I have on a gesture for a toggleable prop doesn't work, haven't been with people so I don't know about the voice issue but I have heard of it. Visemes are definitely fucked and prone and crouch animations have no transitions.

There is a good chance that it's just because there's something about our avatars that is a bad practice habit causing issues, I've seen that a couple times for the "problem" avatars people have uploaded to the canny

[vernal harness]

well i got the avatar to work now the only issue is that like.. it doesnt extend the arms to where it is, it just feels off overall

it looks correct but

its just off

any ideas?

[neon finch]

Like arms are bent even though your arms are fully extended you mean?

[vernal harness]

yeah

[acoustic thistle]

ur arms are 2 long

[neon finch]

That could be a height setting issue tbh

[vernal harness]

i have it set to my irl height? like in game you mean?

[neon finch]

Changing your height changes your world space and changes your proportions

[acoustic thistle]

yea ingame

[vernal harness]

should i just mess around with the height until it works?

[acoustic thistle]

make the arms shorter or lower your View point in unity

[neon finch]

That, or just adjust the lengths of your arms

[acoustic thistle]

^

[vernal harness]

huh

i didnt make the model, im just the one porting it

idk

[acoustic thistle]

oh.

[neon finch]

@neon finch this new sdk/update just made my toggles not work even though the parameters are working when testing the FX layer

the debug menu indicates the parameters toggling and everything

this is a material change toggle btw

Hm. What kind of toggles? Prop/gameobject toggles, blendshape toggles, material toggles?

Oh I see. Mine seems to work fine though

Can you recreate what you've done and run into the same issue?

have you uploaded/updated the avatar within yesterday or after that?

because avatars from before seem to work fine

I have but I'll double check it again

would this have to do something with write defaults

all of them are off

I've made sure

the toggles still work when testing the FX layer in play mode

in game it's just broke

[ionic forum]

I don't think write defaults has anything to do with this, but probably needs more testing

[neon finch]

Just uploaded a new version, material swaps work fine.
I did see on the canny that they changed how they deal with write defaults but I don't imagine that's the problem

it was working fine before this update

should I just restart my FX layer from scratch or something?

[ionic forum]

I'd wait for them to fix it first if it's working in the unity editor

[neon finch]

I'd try a test case with a similar setup to what you have, if you run into the problem again upload the test case to the canny so the devs can investigate it. Add to the amount of information they have to work with

[vernal harness]

i just attempted to use my avatar again and theres a few issues i noticed, it felt like i was in front of my avatar and when i looked down my avatar seemed to go up (looking in a mirror)

[neon finch]

That's normal, when you look in a mirror your avatar usually looks at "you" in the mirror. And eyes now have a bit of delay depending on where you're moving/looking now so they linger a bit like real eyes

Though if you mean your avatar's head/body went up or backwards when looking down then that's definitely an issue

[ionic forum]

It seems like your viewpoint may be too far forwards

[neon finch]

Or if you mean looking down drags your whole root up, that's also an interesting issue.

wait

Putting my avatar through avatar 3.0 emulator seems like my old version of my avatar is working but my new one isn't

strange

so it might be an issue on my side then

[ionic forum]

If your viewpoint is really forward, then the head will pivot at a point in front of the head - making it so that looking down will push your avatar into the air

[real patrol]

Have the issues with the latest update been fixed yet?

[neon finch]

They're still working on it and trying to figure out where the issues really are.

soo I guess copy and pasting the descriptor from the old avatar worked

k then

vrchat pulling a vrchat on me

That's really interesting. Huh.
It could be related to this issue then that Lyuma brought up.
https://vrchat.canny.io/avatar-30/p/1003-playable-layers-mixed-up-in-sdk-in-new-update

I'd definitely mention this somewhere so somebody can take a look at what you did

[small crescent]

other people don't even see my clothing even though its just basic poiyomi without any toggles

[real patrol]

Ah yes, the emperor's clothes

[neon finch]

Do they have your shaders hidden or not Ocirne?

[small crescent]

theyre friended

[neon finch]

That's really interesting. Do they see straight through, or can they see the backfaces?

[small crescent]

the material is completely gone

its pretty much what i would see when i calibrate

[neon finch]

Can I get comparison pictures to look at?
What you would see when you calibrate? Do you toggle on your clothes?

[ionic forum]

When you calibrate? Does your avatar look different when calibrating?

[small crescent]

well, when i calibrate and look down, mirror/others is fine

[neon finch]

I'm not getting a good picture of what you mean

[small crescent]

sec

[ionic forum]

Are your clothes on a seperate mesh? If so try increasing the size of your bounds

[small crescent]

its all one mesh

and it worked fine before update

[ionic forum]

Odd, is the shader you're using set to opaque and not some transparent/fade version?

[small crescent]

its opaque

basically https://imgur.com/a/qN5mDOG

[neon finch]

Yes, I know that model. Indeed.
So that's what your friend sees?

[small crescent]

yes

[ionic forum]

Something is rendering at least, otherwise you would see through the clothing - otherwise I'm not sure atm (scratch that you can see right through)

[small crescent]

people that do not have me shown see me fine

so with default shaders it renders clothes

its pretty much just a poiyomi shader and i have animations that adjust color

[vernal harness]

It seems like your viewpoint may be too far forwards
@ionic forum
Or if you mean looking down drags your whole root up, that's also an interesting issue.
@neon finch in the original PC version of the model everything works how it should though, could it be a issue with changing the stuff to android? or idk im new to this sort of stuff

[neon finch]

Did you make any changes when you made it quest compatible? Or was it already quest ready

[vernal harness]

it was not originally intended for quest but it seems to work mostly fine, i did what the video said which was removing some sound stuff and fixing shaders and now its only that one issue

[ionic forum]

Check if the viewpoint is in the correct position, it may have accidentally changed

[vernal harness]

possibly

how do i know if its correct?

[ionic forum]

You know when you position that Gray circle thing on the avatar descriptor?

[vernal harness]

uh

idk i just let the image stay at default for testing

idk how to change it

[neon finch]

There's a nice edit button to make moving it easy in the avatar descriptor

[vernal harness]

hm

[ionic forum]

That should be eye level, slightly inside the head

[vernal harness]

oh

uh

thanks

im saving that message link for when i get to my main pc next

[small crescent]

im kinda impressed that the update* broke an avatar as simple as mine

[neon finch]

I think it definitely needs to get looked at and analyzed.

[ionic forum]

I'm not sure why it shows up differently locally btw, but the only thing I can think of right now is to check the stencil settings on the shader, or you're using cut out and the animation is messing with the alpha channel

But those issues should also show locally

[small crescent]

my animations do touch the .a channel, but it never changes it from 1.0

all animations change one color channel either 0 or 1 and have .a as 1 always

[ionic forum]

Well I'm at a loss

[small crescent]

thats because theres nothing wrong with my avatar

[neon finch]

Hmmmm, final ditch effort alright?
It could be that there's some remnant of a shader on your material that you applied that is fucking with shit. You know how Master shader leaves a bunch of weird keywords and stuff, something like that.
So create a new material and apply the shader and all the textures and stuff back on it and use that instead on the model and see how that works.

Otherwise, if we ever figure out what this could be it will be a great learning experience.

[small crescent]

well i can update poiyomi, but i didnt change the avatar and it broke after update

[pearl moat]

and theres no parameters driving the updates at all? it seems none of the player aliased expression parameters are synced across the network rn (or at least they are synced very inconsistently)

[ionic forum]

If you're still using master shader, you need to update to their latest toon shader and clear all keywords from your material

[small crescent]

i have parameters driving animations on my clothing

but even if the parameters were garbage or not triggering, it shouldn't cause it to be invisible

i'll try do the update and keywords

[pearl moat]

ya thats fair

[neon finch]

Yeah, fuck Master lmao. It was just an example of a really common one

[pearl moat]

ya. thats the issue i have currently. my parameters are not being synced to other players. so that breaks basically all my layers to some extent

[ionic forum]

Poiyomi Master shader is bugged in many cases

[small crescent]

well ive been using poiyomi toon always

slightly modified to rename the _Color variable

but that never caused issues

[ionic forum]

Does the sdk warn you of keywords on your materials?

[small crescent]

it does not

[frail heron]

Did the update just now break uploading models to VRC from the older version?

I've been uploading avatars, and just now it broke

[ionic forum]

What broke specifically? Well there's many issues with this update

[frail heron]

I just figured something out, nvm

sorry

[robust sapphire]

@ionic forum It does, actually. It also has a tool for clearing shader keywords from materials under VRChat SDK > Utilities

[past python]

avatars are still broken

update did nothing

[drowsy sigil]

whats broken specifically

they have a list of known issues with avatars that are still being worked on

[small crescent]

might be faster to make a list of functional features

[past python]

audio and animations doubling

like some stuttering

and resetting randomly

[drowsy sigil]

yeah dont think that was one of the things listed as fixed so probably one of the things they are working on

[frail heron]

My mouth animations are now not working on newly updated models

[neon finch]

how would you do facial animation by gestures now after the new write default change

just make resets or something?

[frail heron]

don't know what that is

[drowsy sigil]

it says they may not localy work @frail heron for new models in the announcement

they are working on the fixes still

yeah do resets, thankfully thats how i was doing it from the start lol

@neon finch

[neon finch]

ouch

is there a quicker way

this just seems like the work load is just worse now after this write default change

[drowsy sigil]

i just have an entry to idle that has everything set to what i want it by default

[untold kindle]

Anyone know where to find a blue sweater wearing avatar with long blonde hair and wolf or fox ears

[neon finch]

i need a opinion

i cant put pics in this chat wtf

[austere mason]

yeah my animations are resetting every time i do a separate animation like jump or crouch

[south hound]

We need harry103 back

[craggy mirage]

What happened to him?

[dapper bronze]

i wish 3.0 wasnt fucked 👍

[neon finch]

this write defaults shit fucked up facial animations hard for me

now I'm clueless

[ivory linden]

Probably best not to touch anything until VRC decides what is and isn't a bug

[late tartan]

@neon finch just transition all your faces back to a default state

You can just have a single reset state that sets your blendshapes to 0 and transition all your faces to that

[neon finch]

which would look like what

could you send an example of what that would look like in the animator tab atleast? @late tartan

[late tartan]

Nah I'm on my phone lol

[indigo zodiac]

What exactly did the update fix? I tested my 3.0 avatars and they're still broken 🤔

[red pilot]

They're still working on fixing the major bugs

[past python]

still broken for me too, all my animations and audio stutter and reset

[cyan plinth]

yeah, animations loop for me as well. And crouching is broken :(

[red pilot]

I've actually had the opposite problem with animations, they don't loop at all

My walking animation is just a floor-glide

[pearl moat]

My 3.0 expression parameter aliases dont seem to be working consistently still lol. Locally everything works but most people cant see my avatar animations because the params arent updating it seems.

[pallid fable]

I got the floor-glide bug yesterday but it wore off within about 30 minutes

[runic delta]

anyone else test generic avatars on 3.0 since the recent update

my flowerpot generic avatar's locomotion system and emotes are borked

like do not work at all anymore

[eager horizon]

most AV3 avatars are broken atm

[hot locust]

change my emote wheel i know the avatar i downloaded has more emotes but im just getting the basic ones

[grand iris]

whenever i transition to a state with a parameter driver i get a small lag spike. is that normal ? any way to prevent this ?

[spare fox]

I got something worse :/ Everytime I equip my avatar fps either gets reduced to 11 for everyone around me and if I reset my avatar I get the same effect but everyone else gets their fps back, albeit not completly since 3.0 avatars seems to reduce fps by about 20-30 frames...

Atm I would suggest using 2.0 avatars since they dont reduce fps.

[boreal stream]

@spare fox Might be shaders too

[spare fox]

I have the same shaders on my 2.0 avatar as I have on my 3.0, that could not be it.

[barren garden]

@spare fox i have the same issue, whenever i pick different set of clothes on my ava. Fps instantly drops to extremely low values for reason unknown. As if 2 different layers with same priority were setting a conflicting values at the same time, looping...

What the hell was changed in this patch to cause such a disaster on av3. Why and why cannot be reverted?

Why the heck even change write defaults in detault animators after such time after release...ffs

[jolly oxide]

good time to just level alts in shadowland since avi 3s are borked.

[valid patrol]

What exactly was the point of getting rid of write defaults?

[merry swan]

Was some explenation but i didnt understand a single thing of it

^ waay up there somewhere

[late tartan]

It was supposed to give people the option of turning off write defaults if they wanted to I think

[valid patrol]

the option

It's forced to be off lol

[merry swan]

must be off now, dont know why but ,okey

still work fine in the old 3.0 sdk , but it has to do with ??? ,

[late tartan]

You're not forced to, you could take all the example controllers and turn write defaults back on

[merry swan]

Just mirrors bugging up, otherwise you look fine for other, just not yourself

[late tartan]

That sounds like a bug outside of the write defaults thing

[merry swan]

It is

They are aware of its not WD causing it, something else is

[strong tree]

talking about disaster recovery, why don't they just rollback, and investigate it on a dev-instance instead?

[brave steeple]

Ugh I think some of my Avatar 3.0 broke. some have repeating animations whenever I do other empty gestures.

[late tartan]

@strong tree cause for the majority of people in the game, nothing is really broken (other than audio) We're a lil biased as av3 creators, which got hit the worst

[meager prairie]

Model A3 having ton of anomalies and issues now

this feels like beta went to live

[strong tree]

yeah, but I mean, it's not 2-3 people complaining, the backlash is a bit more than that

[late tartan]

Yup, and it's gonna be fixed

Just gotta be patient

[meager prairie]

mhm

hope so

[brave steeple]

Yeh, anomalies.
It just happened this update.
Like repeating audio, and when toggling an animation via action menu.
Then do a random hand gesture repeats your animation that you toggled even though they're not set to your gestures.

[strong tree]

mhm

I'll wait until they fixed it, and/or have an official working solution

[late tartan]

The hue shift for one of my avatars is changing changing the skin color as well for some reason lmao

Didn't even put hue shift on that mesh

[strong tree]

yeah, hue shift stopped working some update ago for me...

but I wasn't bothered to fix it, it was just a gimmick for me

[brave steeple]

Anywho just hope this fix by this week.

[strong tree]

atleast they didn't pushed that update like they regulary do on a friday evening...

so, just for understanding: even with write defaults off in all animation states, and reset animations, it's not working correctly?

[rustic coral]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one having issues with animations and sounds. Honestly was about to rip my hair out 🙃 Trying to get an avatar uploaded for halloween, And this really threw a spanner in the works. Mad is an understatement.

[meager prairie]

👍

[rustic coral]

So even if we set everything up right, there's nothing we can do until they fix this madness?

[merry swan]

• • Newly-created AV3 avatars may not have visemes show up properly in the mirror.

id say just wait, we all get it

[rustic coral]

But it's not just vismes. Animations and sounds are broken too 🙃

[merry swan]

Not seeing / hearing that on mine ,still testing

Dont trust local test av's

[alpine meteor]

Something some freinds and I noticed is that it seems, as least as of last night, toggles don't work in fullbody, but are fine in 3-point.

[rustic coral]

I'll mess with some settings and retry now

[strong tree]

Something some freinds and I noticed is that it seems, as least as of last night, toggles don't work in fullbody, but are fine in 3-point.
@alpine meteor great, even more that broke

[alpine meteor]

They should stop pushing out these updates that have problems that are immediatley obvious.

[rustic coral]

I second that. This is honestly a bit ridiculous.

[strong tree]

If I would do something like that on production servers at work, and wouldn't have a disaster recovery plan and I wouldn't roll back to that, I would get my ass spanked...

[dapper hearth]

Sounds like my kind of work 😏

[alpine meteor]

That night went like

"bro check out my new avi"
"you're t-posing"
"What you cant see my dance?"
"check mine out"
"cant see yours either"
everybody proceeds freak out

[iron niche]

don't tell me that they can't rollback like tomorrow if they will not fix that : (

[rustic coral]

That's literally how I found out the anims were broken. And I've uploaded an avi today, same as my one before with a colour tweak and now all the anims are broke, sounds won't play past the first .2 second so it just repeats and gestures won't work

Honestly we need a petition to roll back, I'm gonna have no hair left by halloween XD

[alpine meteor]

even my other av3s don't work.

So many people I know were gonna enter halloween avi competitions.

[rustic coral]

Yeah, I was making an avi for halloween. I'm honestly gutted like, so many plans are ruined now. They need to fix this

[dapper hearth]

If the devs want av3 to be a highly visible feature that attracts users, either to learn it or just enjoy seeing it, they should consider this a priority.

Oh yeah, and if they care about the Halloween event, yeah

[rustic coral]

I honestly love the new av3 and how it works. It's so much more customizable in my opinion and much easier to keep neat and organized. But holy damn I'm mad

I'm attempting the build and upload to see if this fixes one of the issues I was having, we will know in like, 2 minutes XD

[iron niche]

Hopefully they'll fix it by tomorrow or rollback. Let's think positively

[alpine meteor]

We should hope for the best.

[shadow oxide]

so, if i'm understanding this correctly... the documentation strongly encourages using write defaults off, and says "If you want to use Write Defaults, you will have to keep track of all the possible properties that may be written by a node with this enabled."... but in reality it's forced to be off? am i understanding this mess right?

[rustic coral]

Well, I fixed the sound issue. But all anims and gestures are broken 😄

Hope so ;-;

[strong tree]

I do think they shot themselfs in the leg without knowing it, they mentioned that the unity documentation itself is a bit sparse, could be that the devs didn't fully understand what it does...

[alpine meteor]

These issues are still a load of bull tho

[merry swan]

audio need to be told to be OFF if you de-activate it, or it just get stuck now , if you use any state

kinda odd the other one dont do that for me, same sdk

same with clothes, you need a off state (default look)

[shadow oxide]

with all the toggles my avatar has, it heavily relies on write defaults being ON, even a single animation having it off broke stuff in the past... and with how complex it is, I really don't want to have to manually add in resets... so I'm really hoping this mess gets fixed >.>

[merry swan]

This is all FX layer mess up

[robust glen]

Don't hold your breath on them reverting it. They'll probably just push on with their current mindset. You'll probably have to get used to making more default states.

Or manual reset states I mean.

Slightly irritating ngl, since I have done like 10 3.0 avatars so I'll have to go basic and fix some of their animations.

[merry swan]

140+ 3.0 avs

Not gonna be fun to unfix 👀 but most are just FX layer issues

[robust glen]

You've been a busy beaver I'll say that much. I usually do one avatar a week but that's usually most blender work and swapping clothes and etc.

Luckily most of mine would be a somewhat easy fix, but I still would rather not do said fix

[merry swan]

Have a template so it goes fast after awhile, redoing it to the new one right now

[robust glen]

Ah usually mine are all unique, except the dance menu I add. What do you normally do on these? I'm sorta of trying to think of what 140 different avatars could be.

[merry swan]

cant really post a image here, but i tested different 3.0 stuff, ended up making a vehicle that can detection motion and do stuff, one animator have 80+ animations in it that can change speed/transition to another while using it, materials swap on body/hairs/toggling different stuff like world objects/scaling avatar/change viewpoint, ect,ect,ect

custom sitting/prone/running animations, that dont squish your avatar, lock avatar in place so you can walk around yourself (locomotion layer ugh)

template is handy , just add more to it when needed, so dont need to constantly add the parameters for just sitting when i can just change the animations instead

edited the default layer so it supports 255 instead of the current one on gesture that is 1-8 + sitting 9-16 , mine detect 17-255

was working on a RC car you can move around with puppet menu, but eh lazy

[robust glen]

That just seems like too much unity for my tastes. I'm mostly interested in minimal amounts of unity.

Toggles and the like.

[merry swan]

There i found the audio bug , yeh my old 3.0 definatly have it

seems like its just doing the first 1-2 second on loop

1 of them broke 2 other fine, cause reasons? they are both activated same way

meh a mess, ill wait for an update

[floral rock]

I’m actually feeling a bit embarrassed, someone picking up a 3.0 from my pedestal, seeing some features broke and moving on, reflects badly on me when it was working 3 days ago 😦

Not even sure of the intended best practice to future proof this

[marsh haven]

So whats the current situation? Still wait for some kind of update? Current avatar of mine is too big and complex to fix might aswell start over if thats the case.

[fluid grotto]

I’m not fixing any of my avatars until I get the all clear that the SDK is behaving the way they intended and anything broken has to be changed ourselves

I’m not sure what’s a bug and what is new documentation

[marsh haven]

Yeah thats what I was wondering

[dapper hearth]

Can I still upload with the previous av3 sdk?

[strong tree]

yes, but it's still broken

but I have to give them credit that they FINALLY fixed the SDK version, it displays now the correct version...

[small crescent]

main problem is that your avatar can look fine locally but be completely broken for others

i'm not playing until they either fix or revert

[fluid grotto]

Yeah all of the breakage I’m seeing is remote behavior only

Avatar still working perfectly for me

Didn’t know anything was wrong until people started saying something

[iron niche]

Like 2 min ago i uploaded my new av 3.0. On home world, all the gestures, animations worked good, In the same place i change into different av 3.0, same situation, but when I change the world, everything is still broken.

[fluid grotto]

Yes the breakage is somewhat random I don’t know the logic behind it

Makes reproduce steps on Canny pretty much impossible

That and it being that things just don’t work remotely *sometimes, and only for certain people”

Worst kind of bug is one with a random aspect

[meager prairie]

true

[shadow oxide]

In my case, avatar seems to work perfectly fine on my end, but when I had a friend come to make sure cuz i had doubts, given what I read here... it seemed like none of the variable controls were actually syncing. Not sure if that helps any, but... :/

[merry swan]

had one with 3 music toggles, first they worked fine, toggled them a bunch of times and suddenly one stopped working, they are all triggered the same way 0 <any> 1 2 3

[fluid grotto]

In my case, avatar seems to work perfectly fine on my end, but when I had a friend come to make sure cuz i had doubts, given what I read here... it seemed like none of the variable controls were actually syncing. Not sure if that helps any, but... :/
@shadow oxide same my avatar is continue to work perfectly for me only. I suspect the issues are the changes to write defaults though

[meager prairie]

its mostly sync issues

[sly spear]

DId this update fix the problem with others not seeing your av3 animations or is that still an issue?

[shadow oxide]

I thought this update caused it?

[sly spear]

I'm referring to the patch update

[merry swan]

1004/1005

[sly spear]

1005

[merry swan]

Both dont really work well

[heady niche]

I hear a lot from people having issues, but can't cause any issues. Tested for myself, friend observer, or non-friend observer. I reinstalled the game by switching to beta and back, since then 1004 and 1005 were both normal for me 🤷‍♂️ hope this info helps

[merry swan]

1005 was a fix but didnt really fix much , so waiting for next, 1004 had layers offset all wrong so gesture was action , action was fx

[sly spear]

Wasn't that mainly an issue with the SDK? or did that also end up causing issues ingame?

[austere mason]

did they just randomly fix animations

[meager prairie]

So sync issues exist still?

[digital wasp]

im looking for a orange bird with long legs and a swirl on it help

[fluid grotto]

DId this update fix the problem with others not seeing your av3 animations or is that still an issue?
@sly spear still issue

[digital wasp]

i find it anyway lol

[sly spear]

oof

[merry swan]

Fun part, i made an avatar for halloween that really depends on mirror to work, now i cant really use it without it breaking 😋 eeh well

havnt made one of those on months

[elfin flume]

Worst part for me has been the audio bugs with expression based dances. Audio will loop the first milisecond over and over for some people but it's fine for others. trying to find a workaround but it's not lookin great

[merry swan]

Had that happen earlier, was fine ,until i toggled it a bunch of times then it started looping 1-2 sec over and over

[elfin flume]

Exactly, like you said the worst part is that it's only sometimes, and only for certain people at different times...i hate this

[meager prairie]

Worst part is I play mute so I use my gestures always now everything is messed up

[pearl moat]

ya the sync issues are pretty obnoxious. nothing like feeling like youre crazy when people tell you things dont work and you see them working (and it works for some other people)

[fallow geode]

Can someone help me find a dark souls avatar?

[marsh haven]

Kinda ironic that one of the key features of 3.0 that made 2.0 obsolete is now gone.

We're back to 2.0 atm

[frigid goblet]

@fallow geode there should just be dark souls avatar worlds

[fallow geode]

I cant find them

That is the problem

I ve literally been an hour and a half trying to find one

[fluid grotto]

So before I go trying to fix stuff I’m assuming the breakages are because I have to go and uncheck write defaults on my stuff and make reset animations, is that correct

Or are there more things going on

[merry swan]

Kinda yeh, made a quick test enable 2 different objects, default is both of them off, works fine , but you can activate both same time wich shouldnt happen (any state) might be a local/mirror thing though

[pearl moat]

even if you fix your animations if you use any expression parameters your stuff likely won't work for other people 🤷

[merry swan]

sync isnt really working right, for sure

[late sable]

My avatars are still experiencing the animations playing the first frame repeatedly ;/

By this I mean, one of my avatars has a particle system that does not loop and is played on awake. This particle system is going off REPEATEDLY on the toggle, instead of just the once. That being said, it's not even finishing the particle's effect, only the first moment of the particle before it restarts.

[silent pewter]

I think your best bet is to wait for the fix they're working on. It'll return everything to how it was hopefully.

[late sable]

Yep, honestly I thought I posted this in the help section where someone asked if there were still issues.

And when I realized I had posted it here I blew up

xD

[strong tree]

so... just to understand that correctly, with write defaults of, I need to uncheck write defaults in all states, and for example a toggle, I need an animation which enables it, and an animation which disables it, right?

[fluid grotto]

That is how vrchat would prefer you to design your controllers yes

[strong tree]

I'm not gonna fix anything right know because a lot of other things are also not working ;)

[fluid grotto]

Correct

It would be best to wait until vrchat is working as intended and then see what must be changed.

[strong tree]

@fluid grotto well, for a long time I thought it would be required to do it like that, so most of my avatars actually already have reset animations, so I guess thats a yeah for me

[fluid grotto]

the recommendation to not use write defaults has come along side a bunch of other bugs that may be unrelated

[strong tree]

mhm

I did read that parameter syncing also has some problems right know?

[fluid grotto]

My understanding is that the call to not use write defaults is a recommendation not a requirement

[strong tree]

well, I'm fine with both, if all the other things are also working...

[fluid grotto]

If you use reset animations then your controllers are going to behave the same way one way or the other but if you use write defaults reset animations are not necessary

[strong tree]

well, at the moment, most of my avatars use write defaults AND reset animations xD

but anyhow, is it still necessary to make 2 frame long animations?

[merry swan]

3.0 dont need that

[strong tree]

oh?

[merry swan]

1 frame will work

[strong tree]

so I just need one keyframe, got it

[fluid grotto]

2 frame (or longer) animations are needed if you are going to use normalize time on the clip, since normalized time flows from start pose to end pose based on a parameter. Example: the default fist pose

If you weren’t going to use normalize time it can just be a single frame animation

[strong tree]

yeah... the default fist post didn't work for me since the beginning...

[fluid grotto]

The default fist pose expects normalize time if you take a look at the example hand layer where it’s set up that way

[strong tree]

and because I got Index controllers at about the same time, I didn't bother to look in to it, but good to know

[merry swan]

None of my finger gestures are 2 frames anymore, wd on/off still work

[fluid grotto]

It’s about the gradient, using GestrueLeftWeight

If you use an index controller you’re kind of blind to it

If normalize time is on a clip that’s only one frame long then the normalize time parameter just becomes irrelevant

[merry swan]

Useful for tail/wings/ears i guess, those are all puppet menues for me now

[fluid grotto]

But yeah tldr you don’t need it unless you want to use normalized time on clip (normalized time is showing a specific part of a animation based on a parameter)

Yeah driving a puppet menu with normalize time is simpler than making a blend tree I guess

Never thought about that one

[strong tree]

so... it doesn't hurt if the animations consists of 2 keyframes, right?

because I really don't want to go through all animations and fix them...

[merry swan]

neh it works fine

[strong tree]

good

but good thing they fixed the SDK, the first one they released was bugged, after importing, and restarting unity, the SDK control panel was gone...

[floral rock]

Is it possible to run a script to upload a vrchat avatar from python or command line in Unity?

[fluid grotto]

Well tafi figured out fully automated uploads

So regardless of implementation yeah it’s totally possible

[gritty phoenix]

So I head something about some 3.0 things getting bugged when uploading avatars like not being able to use the action wheel. Have those been fixed yet? May just be reading old news idk

[fluid grotto]

Currently newly uploaded avatars don’t really have Visemes. There currently still the case. Not sure of anything else

[gritty phoenix]

Ah, good to know! Thanks!

[untold geode]

Can't they just revert to previous version 😅

[barren garden]

i doubt they will, knowing them we will have halloween with broken avatars

they dont have much time to fix it

and might fix with instrucitons that each avatar has to be reuploaded and fixed which is another time requirement on creators (so wont be possible to make it in time often)

i wish they rollbacked ava 3.0 part of changes at least until next week

[timber basalt]

If I wanna make a new avatar for quest, do I use the vrcsdk 2 or the vrcsdk3

[robust orchid]

what is the correct way to install a new sdk version

do i just open it like normal ontop of any original one

[merry swan]

3.0 drop it ontop of other , HIGHLY recommend backing up the project

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/updating-the-sdk

[robust orchid]

thanks

[low seal]

Yo is it just me or is it not possible to publish avatars right now?

my build and publish and build and test are greyed out?

[sonic spade]

you probably have errors in your project

most likely caused by broken/unsupported scripts that may have come with other imported files

[low seal]

nope

i've been publishing from this all day

its suddenly just greyed out

i didnt change anythhing

other than import a normal map

[sonic spade]

still, do check your logs, that should point you in the right direction

they are indeed doing some server maintenance, but it should not affect uploads

[low seal]

i cant post the image but

only have 1 shader ui yellow error

that's always been there

i legit changed nothing other than drag a different normal map in

[untold geode]

looks normally to me

I didn't update the SDK

[low seal]

neither did i

just on 3.0

[small crescent]

make sure you're still logged in on the first tab

[low seal]

ye it logs me in

automatically

restarting unity also doesnt do anything

still greyed out

[small crescent]

and theres nothing in the box above build & test?

no errors or auto-fix stuffs

[low seal]

https://i.imgur.com/2QPKuf2.png

[small crescent]

thats no problem

[low seal]

https://i.imgur.com/kXwK0WB.png

and this

none of the 3 avatars in my project wanna publish

button just stays grey

[small crescent]

weird

i assume you're not downranked back to visitor 😄

[low seal]

the login panel says

" allowed to publish"

so 🤔

[small crescent]

should be gud

worth a try to log out and in again maybe

[low seal]

didnt work either

am i gonna get a beating if I @ a dev

:^]

[small crescent]

well, you're just going to be told to make an issue on canny

which nobody cares enough to do, so nothing ever gets fixed

[floral rock]

Ellie: if there's an error on one that's active, it won't let you publish even on a working avatar, select 2 and make them inactive, and try one by one

[low seal]

god damn you're right.

🤔

its cause i toggled that empty model on to copy some dynamic bone settings

[vernal harness]

i used the thing in pumpkins avatar tools to reset the viewpoint to the eyes, now when i look down (using no vr, just pc) i can barely see the shoes when i assume i should be able to see more

i just dont know where the viewpoint usually goes, im new to this kind of stuff

[floral rock]

rule of thumb is between avatar eyes, but it can be more accurate if positioned an appropriate eye level above your shoulders. if you have a standard humanoid model then stick just between your eyes

[real patrol]

Was the Avatar SDK fixed?

I don't wanna import it yet in-case it breaks anything.

[steel shuttle]

the sdk problems are kinda fixed , at least the layer thing is....but the rest in vrc isn't(toggles and animation repeating with gestures)

[neon finch]

anyone got any Halloween avatars like headless horseman or something

[barren garden]

made some tests and the giant fps drop thingie is random and not synced... i hope it will get fixed otherwise ppl will not realise they are lagging others (reason still unknown)

[fickle zephyr]

Not sure if this has been reported by anyone else, but knowing the state of things it probably has haha

When I load into my main 3.0 avatar with this new update, it has a chance of dropping my frames down to like 10fps or not. It's random from what it seems. I can spam the "Reset Avatar" expression menu button, and sometimes it loads up very laggy and other times totally fine.

Uploading it again with the new SDK does not make a difference.

[neon finch]

If you look at the performance tab in task manager when that happens, does it show any one of your components being pinned at 100%?

[fickle zephyr]

Lemme go check real quick

[merry swan]

visme's still buggered so 🤷‍♂️

[fickle zephyr]

Nope, none of mine are at 100%

[neon finch]

Random followup, under Performance, if you select your GPU and look at the "Dedicated GPU memory usage", is it higher than you'd expect?
I've had that particular issue before, but this issue could be something new

[fickle zephyr]

Nope, seems fine to me

30% utilized, Dedicated GPU memory at 4.1/8GB

This only ever started happening since the new update

It was totally fine and ran fairly well before

The second the new update dropped, so did my frames haha

[neon finch]

Oof lol
yeah, bizarre
I'll see if I can replicate

[steel shuttle]

Ok don't get me wrong i appreciate all the effort on fixing the issues currently ongoing with 3.0 but I have this concern now. Why not revert back in the meantime so that no events are cancelled or disrupted.

[dapper hearth]

Does the viseme fix they mentioned only apply to their internal built-in viseme system, or does it also apply to custom user animators using the "viseme" parameter?

[late tartan]

https://vrchat.canny.io/bug-reports/p/1004-performance-drop-when-using-30-avatars please add the info for the performance drop here @barren garden @fickle zephyr

Or point me to another canny if there is one

[bright ferry]

does anyone know like... where to report bugs.. cuz idk if im the only one having this jump issue after the update where my avatars body just crunches in on itself and twists .

oop nvm

[worthy summit]

they need to stop updating this game because they keep breaking it

[iron niche]

Toggle animations on quick action menu ares till broken and today is Friday, it will be awesome if they will type a info about the current situation.

[woven pecan]

it's updates through blood, it's painful (metaphorically) but needful

[sly spear]

Is it still broken if write default off is used? Or is that unrelated to the sync issue?

[woven pecan]

still broken, yes

[iron niche]

it's not the "write default " sometimes when i use av 3.0 toggels are working on other map not.

remember if you test av 3.0, make sure to change the map and test it once again. Yesterday i tested one avatar on 4 maps. When i change to the 4th map, avatar was broken in previous one, not.

[small sable]

time to learn some 3.0 basics

[barren garden]

Bad moment for 4 that tbh ^^

[loud arrow]

when remeasure avatar

[small sable]

im more just trying to learn to toggle some objects on the model

than doing anything intricate

[grizzled solar]

do you guys know if there exist a list of older sdk3 for av3?

because the latest one is broken i am 100% sure

[shadow oxide]

It's not just the sdk, the game itself is broken atm... I'd say just wait till stuff's fixed

[waxen solstice]

I absolutely love how they broke gestures and animations

[severe adder]

We all do.

[wintry verge]

Even my SDK2 avatar I just uploaded (which was uploaded already before the update, and I changed her eye color after in unity, uploaded again and now all of a sudden.. no visemes in mirrors or on cameras) is broken.

[fluid grotto]

yeah new uploads don't have visemes

even just updating ones that previously worked - no more visemes.

keep old uploads for now if you want them

[wintry verge]

I hope they fix this.. D;

[fluid grotto]

I’m pretty confident they’ll get it fixed before the day is over.. crunching for holloween event 

[small crescent]

well it's been a while since they broke so many things everything at once.. so i admire your positivity 😄

[fluid grotto]

The voice issues are really the only big problem. Visemes not working is an annoying and detracting cosmetic issue. The lowest on the totem pole is the emotes because you can play VRchat just fine without emotes.

[small crescent]

as long as you don't count unusable avatars, yeah

[fluid grotto]

I guess I might be lucky- but humanoid Network IK works fine. Only custom animations are broken on my stuff. And if you block custom animations no one even knows there’s a problem

[small crescent]

i mean my avatar is mostly invisible for people that have animations on

[wintry verge]

Cant really do my job without visemes sadly.

[fluid grotto]

Don’t update!

[wintry verge]

I was doing a halloween version of my avatar. I'm hopeful they'll get this fixed tho.

[fluid grotto]

VRChat keeps all your old versions. Wish they had a blueprint rollback feature

[wintry verge]

It's just weird they pushed the update when they posted on the 16th saying the visemes and animations issues were known bugs that would "be addressed before the update went live."

[shadow oxide]

wait, visemes don't work either? but with the test avatar i uploaded just yesterday to see the extent of the damage, it worked just fine...

...theeen again, I've been super lazy and haven't updated the sdk for a long time, so maybe i was just lucky i was lazy about that...

[small crescent]

the only technical reason i can imagine that makes rollbacks impossible is them having changed their database format and migrated data, and they can't be bothered to write code reversing the sequence

[shadow oxide]

all the sync anims were broke tho so >.>

[wintry verge]

Lots of people are having the visemes issue. It works for other people but not in mirrors or on the stream cam.

[shadow oxide]

guess i one of the lucky ones then... or that it's related to the sdk, which like i said, i use an outdated one

[fluid grotto]

wait, visemes don't work either? but with the test avatar i uploaded just yesterday to see the extent of the damage, it worked just fine...

...theeen again, I've been super lazy and haven't updated the sdk for a long time, so maybe i was just lucky i was lazy about that...
@shadow oxide the changelog says new uploads won’t have visemes shown in mirrors.

My guess is it’s referring to fx layer based visemes

[shadow oxide]

ohhh maybe... i just use the standard ones with the descriptor still

[mossy kite]

It's not just the sdk, the game itself is broken atm... I'd say just wait till stuff's fixed
@shadow oxide Using the older sdk fixes the problems for me

If anyone wants the old sdk, DM me and i can send it to you

Its the sdk from end september

[shadow oxide]

mine is from sometime in may

[mossy kite]

Talking about 3.0

[shadow oxide]

same

[mossy kite]

Beta?

[shadow oxide]

i think right after beta

but still has sync issues

[mossy kite]

Sync as in lipsync?

I dont have any issues using my sdk

[shadow oxide]

as in parameter sync

[mossy kite]

👉👈

[shadow oxide]

it'll be fine for you, but for others it like u not even triggering the animations

[mossy kite]

I just tried it out with my friend

He can see me change shirt colors and shit

[shadow oxide]

odd... just tried that with a friend yesterday, didn't work for me...

[mossy kite]

Well this is working for me now

I can send u the sdk and u can try it out if you're down

[shadow oxide]

i'll just wait till it's fixed, i think

[mossy kite]

aight

[shadow oxide]

and just checked, my sdk version date is listed as "2020.05.06.12.14"... it definitely a rather old one :P

[jolly oxide]

so did they give any actual reason for not just doing a rollback and then fixing it?

[mossy kite]

No

Not that i know off

[fluid grotto]

so did they give any actual reason for not just doing a rollback and then fixing it?
@jolly oxide yes

[jolly oxide]

what was it?

not trying to attack them, just genuinely curious about the process so i can inform friends

[sly spear]

I too would like to know

[fluid grotto]

#vrchat-general-2 message

[jolly oxide]

huh, i figured 3.0 animations would be the biggest concern, but thanks for digging it up for me

[sly spear]

Kind of screws up the spookality avatars, or any av3 Halloween avatar (which most likely be more animation heavy than typical avatars)

[jolly oxide]

oh i didnt even think about the spookality stuff

they gonna delay it i wonder?

[sly spear]

Figured that being unable to showcase avatars entered for an event that vrc hosted would maybe warrant a rollback

[steel shuttle]

I think at the moment they made that comment they weren't aware of how bad it actually was. It's not a exploding-and-nobody-can-log-in bug but its a I can't use any 3,0 avatar animation without causing a seizure for everything triggering all the time.

[jolly oxide]

opposite issue for me, neither hand gestures nor action toggles play for others after the update.

[iron niche]

quick action menu gestures are broken (sound glitch and other)

[fluid grotto]

Today I’ll be personally verifying if messing with write defaults can get an avatar working as expected, but from what people are telling me, it’s not related to the current bugs

[neon finch]

Hey👋🏻 I recently uploaded my custom avatar on vrchat but when i try it,his foot is under ground and his position was opposite of regular position and i’m sure set the position right ,is anybody know the reason?

[jolly oxide]

id hate to have to reuplaod everything 3.0 but better than nothing i guess. i can jsut grab the few i really enjoy using

[shrewd wigeon]

is there a new 3.0 sdk out for avatars that fixes them?

[jolly oxide]

not as of yet

[fluid grotto]

No.

[iron niche]

still have to wait

[shrewd wigeon]

okay, i was misinterpreting

[fluid grotto]

There’s nothing wrong with the current SDK mind you, the bugs are with the client

[shrewd wigeon]

i thought i broke my avatar initially as i had been having problems trying to get gesture triggered animations to work and had just figured it out, when nothing worked anymore i figure i had broke them again :P

[nova cove]

Amazing work mod team!

[lapis sand]

I recall there was a bug with av3 sdk, someone posted that playables were offset

Also how’s in the beta? Are av3s better now?

[floral rock]

They look better, not perfect but improved and mostly functional

[neon finch]

The new version of the SDK resolves the offset playable layers issue

[floral rock]

Do we have to reupload old av3 with the new sdk?

[neon finch]

No, but following the next patch/patches, it might be helpful to do so.

[merry swan]

Long as you still have WD on the old works fine, once you toggle it off, you need to add a default animation to every layer you have

so if you have one that toggles 3 object on, it must have a -these are all off- as default anim

if you forgot any of the default anim it can affect other things wich i just had happening

[floral rock]

Is best practices to use wd off to future proof?

[merry swan]

I had a object i toggled and that broke my material swaps (?reason) cause it had no default anim on the object toggle

Maybe for new avatars ill probably switch to it,

its recommended not forced, and we still have ancient avatars still working

5.5/5.6 ones (broken shaders likely)

I updated my template so new ones will have it , but not sure ill redo my old

[robust orchid]

I'm still relatively new to vrchat

so are updates this frequent normal

[merry swan]

Nah this was just few hotfixes, was a change that broke it abit

[robust orchid]

i see i se.

see

[unique ocean]

okay so, bug I'm noticing. Want to know if anyone else is seeing this

[merry swan]

Old avatars will behave fine , just once you turn WD off, you must make default animations for first state in every controller / layer you have

[unique ocean]

in 3 point VR, after moving in any direction and then stopping, the model will slide around without the feet doing IK for a couple seconds before starting to perform IK steps

I have a custom locomotion layer, but this was not happening before the updates.

[jolly oxide]

oh so are 3.0 avatar animations working now? action toggle and gesture specifically

[merry swan]

Locomotion layer got abit of a update, supine is gone, jump/fall is its own blendtree now

Uploaded one and its behaving so yes, but its still using WD = on

[jolly oxide]

no i mena

previously uplaoded ones

[merry swan]

WD off id need to redo the layers, wich i dont really wanna do now

[jolly oxide]

taht were working before that update

and then broke

are thsoe now working in cliuent

or do we have to reupload and fix all of our 3.0 avatars

[merry swan]

mirror not showing right? thats fixed

[marsh haven]

Hmm I'd probably have to see how my avatars work with WD on cuz I really don't want to work on 30+ layers

[jolly oxide]

no not mirro related

if i had a toggle to pull out a sword, or a gesture

will taht avatar now work

as after the update from before they all stopped working for others

[merry swan]

That happend with WD off for me,

[unique ocean]

wait

[merry swan]

until i added a default anim

[unique ocean]

they made changes to the locomotion layer?

[jolly oxide]

so i ahve to update and reupload all my 3.0 avatars still?

[unique ocean]

Was there an SDK update?

[merry swan]

yes

new layer exsamples have WD off

[fluid grotto]

in 3 point VR, after moving in any direction and then stopping, the model will slide around without the feet doing IK for a couple seconds before starting to perform IK steps
I've seen this as of the last 3 days.

[merry swan]

Barely in VR so havnt tested that

[wraith granite]

does mixing and matching write defaults between layers still cause issues or break things?

[merry swan]

Sounds like fun to troubleshoot

[wraith granite]

like hypothetically for people who make prefabs with animator layers that you would have users combine into their animator using some sort of combiner

I'd update my animators to disable write defaults but i'm concerned for people who use my work who aren't as familiar and would probably still work with write defaults on by default on their other layers

[merry swan]

Only seen it interefere with other WD off's, when i forgot one default anim it messed up another WD off layer

[wraith granite]

Really, before when I would have any layer that used write defaults off, even my layers with it on with any-state were affected and I was forced to add default reset animations

I wonder if that's addressed in this SDK change or if i'm just doing something wrong

[fluid grotto]

does mixing and matching write defaults between layers still cause issues or break things?
@wraith granite Unity allows you to set write defaults on a per state bases. You are expected to be able to do that. Just understand what you are doing.

Also designing your avatar to work properly without using write defaults at all, is more optimized

[jolly oxide]

so do i have to go to every 3.0 avatar, turn right defaults off for every animation in every controller and reuplaod all of them for animations to be viewable for others now?

[wraith granite]

@jolly oxide they should mostly be fine

[jolly oxide]

oh good

jsut tested, toggle animations sill dont work

such as toggleing on a hat or sword

other players dont see it still

[late tartan]

@jolly oxide they have to update too

[jolly oxide]

they are

[late tartan]

Wack

[jolly oxide]

gestures seam to work

[late tartan]

Ya I think that might be an issue they're still chasing down

[jolly oxide]

but action toggles all have to be updated to wrtie defaults off

[late tartan]

I don't think that's tied to write defaults

I turned write defaults off on an avatar for me and a friend and we still couldn't see each others toggles

[jolly oxide]

so basically back to shadowlands alts leveling till the devs fix it

shame for the spookality contest guys

[late tartan]

It only happens occasionally in my experience

[jolly oxide]

i was just in world witha friend both on build 1007

they could not see my toggles, that worked fine before the 10/27 patch

[late tartan]

Yes, and if you join a bunch of people, some of them will see your toggles and some won't

And the same people that couldn't see your toggles might be able to an hour later

It's very inconsistent

And doesn't change if you turn write defaults off

[jolly oxide]

but all sdk2 avatars are fine

at this point might as well go back to just using sdk2

[late tartan]

Yes, it's just a 3.0 issue

[jolly oxide]

unless it actually gets fixed

[fluid grotto]

you have no obligation to remove write defaults. If you understand what they do, and design for them, they work fine. but it's better to make your avatar work without them, it's less redundant parameters for the game to animate

[rustic coral]

So it's just toggles that aren't working anymore? I'm still having issues with the fx layer? But gonna remake the controllers now to see if that helps

[fluid grotto]

to my knowledge there are no bugs "because you didn't remove write defaults"

There are quite a number of remote bugs. People say toggles don't work, various hip movements are incorrect remotely

in general, everything looks fine locally

[rustic coral]

Right, Cause it's not fine locally for me, So I think I may have made an error but, an avi that I had before works fine and I reupload, doesn't work

[austere rose]

Its a fault on my side or emote have a delay to fire some time

[spare fox]

I thought this update would fix my avatars performance issue, but it didnt. This wasnt as issue before they changed write defaults...

And I have no idea how to fix it

[rustic coral]

What is the whole write default thing? What does it cause/do?

[austere rose]

it reset all the transform, blend shape,etc. to the the origin value. something like that. Every time you change state. So you didn't need to have the value in an animation to reset it.

[ebon thunder]

Gesture and FX did not play to other players when using full body tracking, but when I turned off the tracker and turned off full body tracking, it worked.
And when I turn on the tracker again and use full body tracking, it played to the user in the same instance.

[small crescent]

i believe theres an issue where people won't see your FX unless they're looking at you while your avatar is loaded/reset/calibrated

looking at open beta channel

[dire peak]

Tomorrow I will be working on my vrchat avatar so I might need some assistance

[austere rose]

give up

[fervent tulip]

That's what I'm trying to figure out too, if it's an issue with how I set things up or if it's vrchat itself breaking my gestures

oh, I'm getting an issue where the gestures don't activate at all

yeah, even 3.0 models where it was working before don't work anymore for me

on the most recent update

What I want to know most of all is if anyone reading this currently has a 3.0 model with working animations with this most recent update

because then I'll at least know it's possible

[fluid grotto]

my old layers just kinda weirdly stand around unless I use the new default SDK layers, trying to figure out what's different with them

[fervent tulip]

but you're able to get custom animations working using the new layers? Or do you mean using the default controllers

[fluid grotto]

yes, modifying the new example layers works fine

I'm just trying to get my old ones working though

[fervent tulip]

ah, alright

[austere rose]

nothing work in the new sdk

that the issue

[teal path]

For everyone who is having av3 issues on the newest build

Its related to tracking control

Things work completely fine locally

On dektop also from other peoples view

In regular vr root motion in animations seems to fall apart

and in fullbody everything breaks

aswell as people getting stuck in animations or having to play animations to stop being stuck

it all indicates that the main issue is related to tracking control not working as intended

[fluid grotto]

New default FX layer doesn't open avatar's eyes after closing them due to AFK

if it is using the automatic closed_eyes blendshape thing

via proxy anim

[blazing trench]

avatar 3.0 still broken

[teal path]

read my message above please

[late tartan]

oh that kinda sounds like a NetIK thing then maybe?

[small crescent]

so yeah my avatar is still completely broken even after todays update

[teal path]

I feel like tracking control makes more sense

@small crescent read my wall above

[small crescent]

well i am full body so ye

[short hatch]

Hey guys

Just got most of what I'm learning for my 3.0 sterff

[late tartan]

@teal path so when you say nothing works in full body, do you mean just transform animations? or all animations in general?

[teal path]

all of them

[late tartan]

damn

[teal path]

only thing that works is generic animation

as in

rotation of whole body

my afk animation throws me on the floor

[late tartan]

lmao

[teal path]

in fbt everyone just sees a tpose facing on the floor

meaning part of the animation is still there

a part not affacted by animation control

[late tartan]

So toggles and shader property animations don't work?

[teal path]

nope

toggles dont anyways

[fluid grotto]

Are gesture layer transforms working properly? I can't get them to move even though debug says the states are being activated and the gesture layer weight is 1.0

they are masked, and added to the top level mask as well

[neon finch]

I was having issues with gesture layer transforms as well, even masked with weight of 1.0 just like you. I can only guess there's some kind of broken interplay between the layers at the moment as Paci noted, and action is having an effect on gesture layer transforms.

[teal path]

@late tartan essentially anything affected by the "Animator Tracking Control" component will break in fbt

[late tartan]

but toggles aren't affected by that...?

[teal path]

thats the part that confuses me aswell

[late tartan]

wack

I feel like there's more going on

[neon finch]

Boop* Paci

[strong tree]

maybe the new parameters they introduced have something to do with it?

[teal path]

they dont

[strong tree]

or more like, what they do internally with those parameters

[teal path]

it breaks on new and old avatars

unless they get applied later

[late tartan]

I'm pretty sure the default animators get applied later but I'm not sure

[neon finch]

Found more bugs Paci?

[strong tree]

well, some (i didn't tested all) of my older avatars (1+ weeks ago uploaded) work fine now, even in with fbt

but newer ones are still borked

[late tartan]

Have you tested them with someone else while you're in fbt?

[teal path]

well locally everything works

[strong tree]

no, they also work for others

[teal path]

odd

[strong tree]

toggles, facial expressions, etc

[bright pendant]

if everything works locally but people see you weird its probably renmants of the update that broke every 3.0 thing imagineable

i say dont do anythign and wait a week or 2 and see if it just up and goes away after an update

[strong tree]

well, that doesn't help the devs or us, if nobody is testing it

[bright pendant]

one of my 3.0 avatars had a broken leg that nobody else saw but i did. it went away after the big update that broke everything so it fixed something

[late tartan]

Lmao the game broke the one weekend I'm not gonna be on

[teal path]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/bug-reports/p/1007-identified-the-root-of-the-av3-related-issues

Things I found while testing with some others

[bright pendant]

oh yeah, see i use full body and my visemes were broken to me locally so i can confirm that

[teal path]

visemes worked

[strong tree]

@teal path some of those things I can confirm, the others I didn't test

[bright pendant]

well broken on some of my avatars, worked on others, couldnt figure out why

[neon finch]

Wait til new update comes out

[teal path]

Before starting to test I asked my friend if he could see my toggles or facials (in fbt) and had a no as reply

[bright pendant]

even out of 6 avatars i uploaded recently 1 worked and they were all made exactlyt he same way, same sdk. totally baffling but i havnt tried t his latest update that says they fixed the mirror issue yet so its probably fixed now

[teal path]

After testing in desktop I returned with the same avatar

he said he now saw toggles and facials on my avatar

[late tartan]

facials

[teal path]

Found the issue because someone I was with had working 3.0 while on desktop

[late tartan]

heh

[teal path]

Yeah expressions

[bright pendant]

me and my friends, like 8+ of us had entirely inconsistant results, some avatars would have their 3.0 toggles work for the room for most of the night where as mine would break after the first couple people joined

[teal path]

we had consistent results in our controlled environment

[bright pendant]

id always see them locally but about 4/10 people could see them change then after a world or two hop nobody could

[teal path]

multiple avatars, different sdk versions, same results

[small crescent]

my avatar is still broken even without full body

[teal path]

if its broken locally idk

[small crescent]

locally works fine

[bright pendant]

so id switch to another outfit and maybe one or two would see it change in a room. always worked locally

[small crescent]

others just don't see it correctly

[neon finch]

did you changed it

[teal path]

did you try desktop?

[small crescent]

nop

[bright pendant]

no i use full body

[neon finch]

change avatar and back

[bright pendant]

no point in testing desktop mode when i dont use it

[small crescent]

^

[teal path]

@small crescent if you tested the avatar right after switching out of fbt make sure you reloaded it

[small crescent]

i reloaded it

[teal path]

what was the result

[small crescent]

people didnt see a difference

[teal path]

interesting

[bright pendant]

not sure about this latest update but the update before avatar reload did absolutely nothing

[neon finch]

Paci we can test with more people in 2 hours in fff

[teal path]

yeah true

[small crescent]

so what i suspect is going wrong

uh ill post the crap in -help because for some reason we cant post images here

[bright pendant]

i think depending on who loaded in first in a world after a hop and also joining in from a fresh start would change the results of who could see my avatar switch but when we world hopped together more and more people would stop seeing my avatar 3.0 work

though sometimes randomly, the whole room would see it work even after an avatar switch

there was like 10 of us, for multiple hours trying to nail it down some with desktop, some in full body some just in vr and honestly it was too random to nail anything down

there was NO way to force something to work or not work given any situation.

[neon finch]

Did they push a fix for fx today?

[small crescent]

they fixed some cases, not all

[teal path]

They actually didnt

[fluid grotto]

I was having issues with gesture layer transforms as well, even masked with weight of 1.0 just like you. I can only guess there's some kind of broken interplay between the layers at the moment as Paci noted, and action is having an effect on gesture layer transforms.
@neon finch Still happens even with action layer overridden to empty slot, though

[neon finch]

I noticed alot of ppl not seeing my animations and whatnot. Is that what is bugged?

[teal path]

Most of the things I found actually alrwady happened before 1007

[small crescent]

i'm also happy to go with they fixed nothing, as expected 😄

[fluid grotto]

what's weird is my hand poses on the gesture layer still work fine, but none of my extra stuff

[neon finch]

Everything seems local for me

[teal path]

Local always works and remote sometimes

[fluid grotto]

like i'm only receiving my own network IK stream

none of the non-humanoid transforms

i did notice that visemes are perfectly syched locally to your microphone which is nice

[teal path]

I will test at an event imma attend soon

[small crescent]

@teal path yeah its fine on desktop

definitely related to being in full body/vr mode

[agile solar]

I think the newest SDK broke sitting.

[small crescent]

at least we know that they only tested all the contest characters in desktop mode 😄

[charred lotus]

If they did something with the new animations that'd be great.

Crouching is busted in regular VR, and jumping while standing does a landing animation that makes my character bolt upwards blocking my camera view.

It does gets a bit annoying after a while.

[rustic compass]

Please Vote and maybe write some more information about the issue of not synced animation of Avatar 3.0 here?
https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/bug-1005-playable-layers-only-play-for-the-player-no-one-else-can-see-any-of-the

For me its pretty random that i don't see the animation of other people. I think its only with 3.0 avatars, but not 100% sure

[sly spear]

SDK2 avatars seem unaffected by that issue

[rustic compass]

Yes. but would still love to use Avatar 3.0 Avatars again, so i hope the issue will be addressed

[sly spear]

Indeed I do too, I was just confirming what you said about you thinking it was 3.0 only

[teal path]

@rustic compass it works on desktop

[small crescent]

@teal path do you have the Force Locomotion animations for 6 point tracking option on or off? (if you have FBT), mine is off

may or may not be related

[teal path]

its not related

tested with ppl who have it on and off

[cold pewter]

Is there anyway I get someone to dm me and make me an avatar for free? 🥺

[vapid abyss]

I might be able too help

[crude crescent]

Is there anyway I get someone to dm me and make me an avatar for free? 🥺
i also have a dream avatar, but i know that the only one that can make it is myself

[crude crescent]

it's just a shame there isn't a step by step tutorial for the kind of thing i would want to make (i have a model already, rigging it would be the issue especially since it has to be rigged in a specific way)

[icy vigil]

best dynamic bone settings?

@ me when if you reply

xx

[strong tree]

@icy vigil test it yourself, it highly depends on the rig and mesh. Some settings can work good for a certain set of hair, but terrible for another.

[icy vigil]

fair dude

i have been messing around and i i think i found something im keen on :)

[strong tree]

:3

a lot of the time I did took the settings from something similar, or a different avatar, and than tweaked it

but most of the time it ended up completly different than the original settings

so I guess it's better to learn what the sliders do :)

[marsh haven]

Is everything stable yet or should I still wait?