I understand the method of doing say 4 different shirts, I've managed multiple stuff like that since its just if this == 1 do that. What I was a little lost on, was the radial is 0-100%, Which I noticed the DEV mode is 0.00 to 1.00 basically. If for example sakes, I wanted to have a sound emitter. And a slider to set the range from 1 to 20. I'm assuming its possible to make that 0-100% do 0-20?
#avatar-general
proper idol
I guess if you were to tutorial it, I'd be seeking how to make the 0-100% apply to a slider, what you'd typically find in shaders, audio sources, etc.
north canopy
random question: did I hear right that they are removing the gesture toggle binding on index? ;/
atomic blade
The easier case wouldn't be to use math in the controller, but the animation. If you have a clip with volume 0 and one with volume 20 it should fade between them using a blendtree
proper idol
Perhaps a simple light and a brightness 0-100% would be a simple visual example of it doing its job
lost niche
Well, the gesture toggle works on all controllers now
its a button on the root of the new menu @north canopy
visual dagger
its actually easier than that i believe, one animation with first keyframe being 0 and then second being 20, there's a "normalize time" checkbox that you use to make it "play" along with the radial
north canopy
i dont care about menu, I want it on the controller, plus i heard that it no longer locks the gesture? just disables them?
atomic blade
I imagine that would be the simpler option for a variety of fading effects. I did a test using simple Red Blue and Green color applied using a blendtree and I could fade it like an HSV selector. The real problem is that animation clips apply to the entire mesh regardless of shader in most cases, so if you animate an emissive color it applies said color to all shaders on the mesh
Altering the work flow to separate the interactive elements by mesh shouldn't be too hard a change to make going forward though
Really more of a unity specific problem than a vrchat sdk one anyways
proper idol
i guess there would be many ways to approach it yeah.
some of the example avatars in the world VRC made, i saw them just do 0 25 50 75 buttons, instead of a radial. Basically they just had 4 animations for 4 presets.
which realistically thats all you really need, I dont see many reasons to need to say you want 68% of a shader slider, but, if it was a simple task.. heh
atomic blade
The blend menus are less ideal for vfx effects anyways, most people wan't toggles for those sorts of things, rather than having a menu out, although I guess you could simply ignore the menu activation call, but I haven't checked to see if it will hold the last value of the floats when you exit the menu
proper idol
it is interesting to learn how things work though.
I'm learning expressions sorta work like Emotes did, in 2.0
Where, If you stand behind someone, and expression a "Turn light on" They do not see that light, until you stand infront of them, to which they see the looping animation playing, and thus the light turns on for them. Just like the emote system "Must be looking at them to see it". VS if you did this through geastures, you could be behind someone, turn a light on, and they'd see a light appear form behind.
atomic blade
I thought you could turn off dynamic occlusion for certain things, or doesn't that work on light sources
proper idol
well i mean it could be anything
atomic blade
Or at least the armature can be set to update offscreen, I think PVS is only for mesh renderer
proper idol
It could be a trigger to play a sound, like idk. a fart. If you stand behind the person and one-time-shot activate it, they wont hear it. But if you're infront of them / in their vision, they'll hear it. as when you're behind, their game ignores the animation being toggled
i know in 2.0, thats how emotes worked, and you had to use gestures to be "Global" while emotes were "Visible to those who actively see you"
atomic blade
I guess in that respect you would need all light,sound, and particle systems to have activators in the fx layer, while the animations and such activate concurrently in the action layer/
proper idol
in this case im running them on the FX layer, since its no physical avatar animations, just enable/disable toggles basically. Perhaps Action layer would make the stuff work differently
I need a 2nd vrchat account so I can test this stuff more easily vs having someone just camp in-game haha
atomic blade
Yea, I still have things like lipsynch activate sporadically in mirrors sometimes worlds show it and others dont, and particles don't render trails in mirrors either.
proper idol
im just yeah. trying to figure out what is "global" and what is "to those only looking at you" as its no longer just "Geasture" and "Emote" anymore
trial and error with a 2nd person in the room will sort that out
bitter escarp
The set view script does not work perfectly. It does move the viewpoint to the new location but it does not scale the IPD, nor does it adjust the IK. Besides that it permanently bugs the IK out even if you change to an avatar 2.0 or a generic avatar. Reset does not seem to do anything either.
is it planned to fix this or no?
here is a video if the steps recreated and an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiOW7c0P6-w
wintry glade
You should make a canny if you havent already
neon finch
New avatars 3.0 tutorial, this time explaining a bit how the puppet menus work by making a Desktop Headpat mechanic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX-BoYUrUjM
visual dagger
I did a tutorial too, showing how to setup a radial puppet to manipulate a slider https://youtu.be/P9Z1uELODXQ
neon finch
It would be nice if it was a little simpler.
But I'm going to learn these specs well.
proper idol
I think they just changed how the system works. Then again trying a 2.0 avatar isnt really a good way to compare. If I gesture "Light on" another player doesnt see that light turn on, until I walk in their screen. If I walk off their screen, and gesture it off, It's still on for them, until I walk into their screen again. Before ( Avatar 2.0 ) You could be off-screen and geasture said light on/off, and they'd be able to tell you if its on/off, without seeing it. Tis interesting xP
sand wren
omg i discovered something amazing u can do with avatar 3.0
u can make 2 directional controls and use them to make a character sing
one control for the pitch one for the sound
crimson quiver
how are you meant to use the new menu with wmr?
only way i can open it is by pressing r on my kb
and then i cant innteract
okay apparently it works if you don't use vive advanced control
proper idol
Yeah vive advanced makes the radial menu do nothing. Disabling that makes you loose ability to dynamically bind your trigger to a gesture hold. That is a huge con for me, as well as the "if you have 8 friends in the world and one has a avatar that plays a goofy animation, it only plays when you look at it, so everyone ends up being 1-10+ seconds out of sync wondering whats funny when everyone is off-sync based on when they turned to see why people are laughing". But! Thats betas for you. Expected hiccups hehe
visual dagger
stuff being out of sync is more likely people not doing their animations correctly (or a bug) since 3.0 is supposed to be better at syncing than 2.0
proper idol
I think its bug related. I put a few types on every layer and they're all "dont start until people look at you" which im finding a bit of negatives to that. But perhaps thats VRChats way to prevent issues.
visual dagger
i've seen a lot of conversation in these channels about things like "i just stuff it all on the gestures layer" or similar, each layer is very specific in what it's for
oak mason
You should really read on the forums on what each layer does
visual dagger
and anything in the wrong spot makes stuff break, like mirrors, or local/global viewability, sync issues, etc
proper idol
This isnt sync issue so much as player out of site = nothing they do happend until you're in site. Noticed it even on some of the demo avatars
All 2.0s dont but obviously theyre not updated so thats expected lol
silver adder
The wonders of optimization tricks...
proper idol
Yep. It seems to be a strategy implemented for optimization. Only allow animations of whats in view and ignore the rest
silver adder
Can't blame VRChat for it tho. That culling is built into Unity.
proper idol
What worked on 2.0 worked but that was also a lag hell when you had 20 people in worlds showing off animations
Vs now you maybe looking at 4 of 20 people, so lot less stressing on the pc
silver adder
You CAN force animations to not be culled off-screen via the Animator settings, but not sure if VRChat overrides those settings.
proper idol
I havent peaked into culling since im use to it "just working" like in 2.0, but it seems yeah, optimization attemps.
visual dagger
there maybe a difference between culling and just delaying though, if someone does a dance while i'm not looking but it starts playing when i look at them even 5+ seconds later, that shouldn't even be happening
deft lodge
FX is a special layer. On every other layer, you should not be using material animations, shader property animations, or blendshape animations, because they aren't copied to your mirror clone. Only transforms are.
I have the opposite issue where i see it in the mirror but not locally
proper idol
Avatar animations/syncing gestures to audio/swords/etc isnt new to me. Been a user of unity/vrchat for a couple years. This only came up as of this beta,
silver adder
I've used Unity for a couple years now, but I'm semi-new to the VRChat SDK.
proper idol
The way it is now, if someone starts a dance with a hand-held light source ( in-hand music box ) you can be 2 mins into song, and if they look over, it'll play from the start. If they look away, you can disable the animation, and it keeps playing for them until they either look at you again, or until it ends. Kinda crazy x3
oak mason
youre saying I can create quantum mechanics in avatars?
visual dagger
lol
proper idol
Its just funny i can go infront of someone. Toggle it on. Run behind them. Toggle it off. And a 4 min song plays for 4 mins for them, given they dont turn around. And i hear nothing xD
visual dagger
yeah, that has to be unintended
proper idol
But ya. Optimization. Does make it run smoother ill admit
deft lodge
just make an animation to shut down a volume slider until you will raise it up while toggling it off haha
oak mason
when I loaded into the test room in an instance with 24 players the other day, my PC didn't completely die from loading all 24 avatars
proper idol
If you got a world of 20+ people. With rooms. Why play the animation gestures of all those people, if you're in a room with only 1 person? So, it makes sense. Ignores the world and listen to those around ya
visual dagger
i agree on that part, but it should ignore it completely
like, if you started a dance and I didn't catch the first part, don't play it at all
no reason to show it out of sync for late comers
silver adder
Not all of the parts of the animation need to be culled. That's just asking for problems and the performance gains aren't worth it.
visual dagger
it's more QoL at that point
proper idol
the only bad i see is yeah, you get those occasional legit comedy meme avatars, where its some quote from a movie with good animation skills. And you miss it because it didnt play for you, since you didnt hear it start, since behind you is blackhole i guess lol
visual dagger
if i'm late to the party I don't want to be watching an animation that's already been done for 30 seconds for everyone else
sand wren
well its that and the fact that the way these animators work make them more lightweight
especially since now you dont need 50 animators and props
and can have entire sequences without having any extra animators
and no people using cancer shaders yet bc too busy trolling in live
proper idol
I figured maybe it was VRC's way of dealing with the screen spammers - they cant join the world and bomb everyone with their 5000 radius sphere. They'd only effect those who are in that room, looking at them. Which sounds good. But, the bad side of that tactic, those same people can just run across everyone, 2 min delay in their bullshit animation, now run off screen and wait for everyones delay to come through.
sand wren
yea some people said that if they made an animation where their avatar flies off it can sometimes break for them
silver adder
Don't get me started on those animations that generate screen-covering effects that force me to Alt + F4 because i can't see the menus.
sand wren
unless they give them something to look at
proper idol
Hoping they did it for optimization reasons and not to fight against spammers..because they made their life easier if anything
sand wren
i can at least appreciate the screen effects that actually could look like something cool
some avatars have complete screen garblers and crashers and its so lame
silver adder
I have custom animations disabled for everyone but my friends just because of that.
sand wren
i found a raymarched shader that was very spooky
its a creepy creature that runs toward u
proper idol
Yeah. Ive always said theres a place and time for them. Your private server and your drunk friend who wants to experience a fked up VR visual trip. Not public worlds lol
sand wren
its worse when people say "im sorry i like this avatar" but keep trigging a screen obliterator every 2 seconds
silver adder
I personally think that UI-canvas' shouldn't be allowed in custom animations. That would get rid of the most intrusive stuff.
sand wren
na it has a good place sometimes
proper idol
But at least in 3.0, you will have less of that since they cant world-bomb.
sand wren
i used to have a shader that would spawn an anime girl in the corner of the screen
proper idol
Ive seen worlds use screen overlay shaders for like old-game effects but im sure thats different.
silver adder
That's a whole other thing. I'm talking about troll effects from avatars.
proper idol
Ye
sand wren
theres people who have shaders that make ur menus invisible to troll
but u can easily just use safety panic mode
silver adder
I keep forgetting that hotkey exists, i normally just Alt + F4.
sand wren
the good thing is that av3 crashes less too
i havent crashed a single time in av3
meanwhile the live version crashes me so often that i cant even stream
proper idol
I kinda enjoy it cuz they get pissed when they fail to crash me and im like ...Yep, hardly touching my GPU with that and set VRChat to not care if it goes inactive..and enjoy them being pissy it didnt effect me lol
It is smoother. I feel FPS is a bit higher
silver adder
I've never had anyone crash me with an avatar, it's always been certain spots (mainly mirrors) in some worlds that crash me. Although I've since gotten a new PC and i don't crash in those spots anymore.
sand wren
i wonder what the overall performance impacts is from all the animators we have
my avatar alone probably has like 30+ animator layers running at the same time
and like 50 animations
not including the layers i didnt overwrite
silver adder
My CPU would probably be begging for mercy if i ran into you...
sand wren
i doubt it
silver adder
Well, I'm CPU-bottlenecked so...
sand wren
i play on a laptop and still get 90fps in home regardless of whether or not im using my sdk3 avatar
oak mason
the only times Ive been avatar-crashed was while discussing avatars and getting to that subject and wanting to see crashers for myself
proper idol
Regaurdless of possible loss of global animations ( i use global in the sense of everyone has it play rather looking or not ) perhaps a bug or optimization trick, the menu systems, a real ability for inventory now, etc.. is far worth the trade.
sand wren
ive been crashed multiple times and its usually indirectly
either someone says "fuck off furry" and points a crash laser at me or some idiot just wants to troll or crash someone else with particles and it breaks everyones game
silver adder
Sounds about right.
proper idol
A buddy of mine makes some, i dont fully support him for it. But, it crashed my 2080TI with 100% tessalation load. But a recent update to VRC made it do jack shit lol
sand wren
i literally have a panic mode reflex now
because when an avatar starts shitting out 20000 particles that bounce on the ground
i dont want to crash
silver adder
They need to enforce hard limits on those things instead of just classifying them as "very poor performance".
deft lodge
Instant community backlash on them restricting creativity and stuff
proper idol
That same avatar now hits my GPU with 30% load and ya. Idk what changed but congrats on VRC for fixing it x3
sand wren
i have yet to make a submenu for a pen
silver adder
As much as it sucks having to strip away some creativity, sacrifices have to be made sometimes.
sand wren
currently want to make a pen that works just like my phone
open submenu to use
click to draw
proper idol
I mean as much as i hate admiting it. There is SOME level of creativity to SOME of those screen spammer avatars. Ive seen some that are heavily music-synced with custom animations/effects and its kinda skillful how far people go with them. But keyword is some. Not the 2 minute lolol 5000 particles 500% distortion shit ones lol
deft lodge
i understand your point but performance ranking was already bad enough of a backlash, hard limits would make it even worse
sand wren
well the problem is that shitty people always exist
theres no way to get rid of shitty people completely but they exist
so no matter what is done about that on vrchat theres not much that can be done
but there has to be a balance between creativity and suceptibility
oak mason
The permission to crash me should come at the price of having to put on a show.
proper idol
Right. Any tactic used to prevent just encourages most of them to find flaws. Finding those flaws is what makes them enjoy it
deft lodge
and if you are gonna hard limit you might need to hard limit everything all the crashers will just move over from particles to something else
sand wren
and i think right now its ok but could be improved with a few runtime limits for particles and such
emphasis on runtime and not on upload
proper idol
Add a "I hate my computer" super low performance level lol
silver adder
Sometimes though, working with hard limitations can actually bring out MORE creativity.
sand wren
not really
touch menus were done with insane animator and particle contraptions
which also created more lag than necessary and did not sync
now with av3.0 submenus they both sync and dont lag
it was pretty inventive but now its unnecessary
oak mason
honestly, a mode that disables everyone else's avatars, IK, spatialized audio, world rendering and other CPU-taxing things but still lets you join a world and chat with friends would be welcome.
sand wren
unless u wanna make like a physical soundboard
also why doesnt the default robot avatar have legs or scale to match the height of the avatar
proper idol
Theres a lot lf stuff i wish they allowed users to decide on. But, its a free game, i cant expect the world
silver adder
honestly, a mode that disables everyone else's avatars, IK, spatialized audio, world rendering and other CPU-taxing things but still lets you join a world and chat with friends would be welcome.
@oak mason That's pretty much what the safe-mode hotkey does. Minus world rendering.
oak mason
IK and spatialized audio still happens tho
sand wren
IK is still sent over, its just not used the same
oak mason
ah
sand wren
the most lag comes from avatars
proper idol
Like id love the ability for dynamic bones to be collidable with another's avatar. Fiddle with their ears or whatever. Obvioudly that introduces lag, if theres a lot of people. But, id like that as a "ill decide if this instance / my system can handle that" toggle. It'll never happen, wishful thinking heh
oak mason
and hence why the robots dont have legs
sand wren
you can be in an empty world with 20 people and lag to death
deft lodge
i mean honestly IK is calculated on the server side mostly, so it's not as big of a deal
silver adder
I get more enjoyment messing about with the SDK than actually playing the game.
sand wren
@proper idol already can be, just not natively
proper idol
Right
sand wren
and its not good either, lags massively in a lobby with too many users
better off to just rewrite dynamic bones in its entirety
and stop relying on random asian dev
proper idol
But works fine with friends / not a handful of peeps
But ya 20+ people and having the system keep tabs on all their bones.. no xD
sand wren
it gets worse because of what people do
silver adder
I'm not a fan of physics bones being restricted to a over-priced asset.
sand wren
for some reason instead of having one collider per hand
some people literally go and add
one collider for every single joint in their hand
proper idol
True.. lol
oak mason
"rewrite dynamic bones entirely"
Unity cloth already exists, its just really complicated to setup
silver adder
You can't really use the cloth on skinned meshes.
sand wren
i wonder how triple A games do their cloth physics
proper idol
Either way. Im interesting to see how things change before actual live release. The new system is great for customization of the avatar, and inventory
sand wren
usually they have practically the entire jacket of the avatar have physics
silver adder
You've gotta draw the line somewhere between realism and performance.
deft lodge
but they also don't have like 20 players doing it in the same lobby at the same time
proper idol
Like now i easily have the ability to have a character with a handful of weapons and not harm my basic happy/sad/blep/whatever gestures and have emotes be dances/actions.
Just gotta remember that doesnt mean put 20 props on the model and wonder why your polycount is 100K xD
silver adder
If i was going to have an avatar THAT high-poly i would put that detail into the actual character mesh, not props.
But that's just me, not that i would even go that high-poly anyways.
sand wren
oh yeah that reminds me
theres a "low poly" pewdiepie avatar with 5M polygons
and my high quality avatar with props and clothing included is hardly 60k
silver adder
Heck, the chances of me even making my own avatar are slim. I suck at all forms of art, including 3D modeling.
proper idol
Ive seen an avatar that was 1.2M and it was 90% in the gun of the avatar. Wasnt optimized xD
oak mason
TurboSquid: Free "cool gun" 3D Models for Advertising and VFX mood
silver adder
I want to at least try to get good at 3D modeling, as drawing is a lost cause for me...
soft crown
making a better dynamic bone mod must be difficult or else i imagine someone would have done it after 3 years of vrchat being popular
silver adder
One thing i noticed in this beta, lip-sync works on non-humanoid avatars now.
Also, the fact custom animators are no longer limited to non-humanoids is amazing.
proper idol
@soft crown theres clients out there that let a person ( with dynamic colliders in their hands ) go up to someone and mess with their hair/floppy ears. And if they do the same to you, you can see your dynamic bones move ( but they cant unless they too have the client ). Ive seen people do this for well over a year. Its very obvious when theyre playing with your avatars floppy ears going "I love how your ears move!" And well, thats not "normal" of VRChat abilities. But those clients run that on their own server, which shows VRC can do it, but that client also shows it gets SUPER laggy when theres >10 people in the world, and thus has limits.
soft crown
oh, right, wasnt thinking in terms of that, but more performance
silver adder
Isn't custom clients like that against VRChat's ToS?
proper idol
Yep! Tis why jts good to avoid them
But people openly use/talk of them and make it super obvious when they're playing with your avatar's bones. I guess it just takes the right person to report them
Pretty sure spacemover is against VRChat ToS as thats "flying" and "noclip" ability. But people will always try to go "Im just adjusting where i am in my playspace, not my fault it effects VRChat" -_-
silver adder
Yep, I've seen blatant fly-hackers a few times before.
That's the problem with games on well-know engines, they are stupidly easy to mod.
proper idol
ive always wondered if you cluld get banned using a fly avatar you found in a public world. Flying i know is against ToS but i guess its your fault for accepting that avatar and using it?
I mean to be fair, i could "fly" if i tilt my lighthouse down while in game. VR itself is buggy like that. Ive gad steamVR glitch before and put me 20ft above my play area once and i had to recalibrate everything
past rover
Flying is not against ToS. Using a third party client to noclip is. Using playspace mover technically isn't flying, as your player agent still is on the ground (The nameplate doesn't move up) and using colliders to throw yourself gracefully through the air definitely is OK.
silver adder
For me, i don't know if it's an issue with the avatars I'm using or if it's someone hacking. But sometimes I'll get jettisoned into the sky and my avatar will start spazzing out like a ragdoll across my screen. And since the escape menu doesn't follow you while moving, I am forced to Alt + F4.
proper idol
That's good at least. I feel everyone has one fly collider avatar for those screwy moments of world exploring and getting stuck xD
Ive seen worlds glitch like that before. Get in a flying vehicle, jump out, something bugs out and suddenly your moving 200mph and cant even use the menu xD
silver adder
An easy fix would be to make the menu follow the player like the new action menu does.
oak mason
if ovras space drag was against TOS, everyone would stop playing the game.
proper idol
Yeah, ive seen playspace movers use that to noclip through the ground and get into hidden rooms etc that way. They just click and grab and shift themselves around the steamVR playspace, which manipulates the game to their favor
oak mason
obviously, using playspace adjustment to gain an advantage in games is bad. But that's where the bad ends.
When they see me "flying" in FBT, and I have to explain I got my client on this website called Steam, and the client was called VRChat.
proper idol
Right, theres good and bad uses to anything out there. Hell theres even good use to clients, i know some people who use them JUST to change the hud color and nothing more lol
oak mason
my main gripe with clients and mod laoders existing, is that they simplify the work of those with malicious intentions
fiery crow
Nice avatars 3 discussion very good
oak mason
yes, very avatars 3
upbeat gust
Even if these easy to use clients were not widely available. The malicious users would still have access to simple ways to be malicious.
proper idol
Its like people dont live enough to know what a chat is 🙃
oak mason
uhhh, 2 radial puppets connect into a 2d blendtree
actually, I do have some AV3 questions, could one adjust the scale of the whole avatar?
or is that still not a thing?
proper idol
Ive adjusted scale from 0.5 to 3.0 with no issues in avatar 2.0, i just had to readjust camera height
Least now we get this neat little sphere to say where that camera is xD
proper idol
So using a "sit" position under "prone" can now have the camera at avatar head height vs on the ground? x3
oak mason
I think? maybe?
proper idol
Wonder if crouch animation actually works for once..now im curious
2.0 putting any animation on crouch did nothing. Only prone. So people would put sitting animations for prone, so it looks like they're sitting on the floor. But, their view is on the ground, which sucked. If you can animate/move it up..that would be amazing
woeful ruin
@proper idol I realize this is off-topic but Playspace Mover / Advanced OVR Settings are not modifying the client, so they're fine. I use it myself. Modifying the client, however, is against the Terms of Service as it involves reverse engineering, injecting, etc etc etc the client code.
and yes, you can set up your own crouch/prone/whatever. You can even adjust where it gets set off but if you mess with that you might get some incorrect behavior when in desktop mode
silver adder
Oh, i get how this new action system works now. So, will this allow us to add as many emotes as we want?
Or at least, as many as we can reasonably fit without exploding the file size?
silver adder
Sweet.
fluid grotto
GG devs Avatar 3.0 - this is literally Christmas in July
short timber
Please tell me why I can't thumbsup with the VIVE controller in avatars3-beta. Open is displayed instead of thumbsup in the debug window.
fluid grotto
If you supply a blinking blendshape, but not eyebones, the animator breaks
barren bear
I have a question about av3! O:! i read over the documentation, and from what I saw this isn't possible with av3, but I thought I'd check anyway. I know this is possible with particle collisions currently to some extent, but what I'm hoping for is a way to trigger animations by passing an on trigger collider through another one. So for example, a magic circle appears in front of me with different elemental symbols, and I hold the tip of my staff inside the fire one for a second or two to activate the fire spell! things like that O: is that possible with av3?
if not, I think it'd be a great addition, on collision triggers for avatars~
fluid grotto
I haven't tried changing parameters from outside the pie menu. I can check if it works..
barren bear
when i was looking into it, i couldn't find a way to send the collision event to the animation controller :<
but i haven't actually tried av3 yet, so i'm not sure D:
fluid grotto
Well, how you would do it, if it works, is you would set a parameter change on the collision, which the animator would react to
barren bear
using the avatar parameter driver component? O:
how does that work btw? does it just change the parameter on awake?
my concern is i couldn't find a way to handle a collision event without scripting, and av3 still doesn't allow custom scripts, right?
modest sun
It changes the parameter when that state is triggered (first frame when it begins to transition to it)
These behaviors are added into the animator state itself, not into the GameObject
You can use particles to detect collision. There are tutorials by lindesu or retrogeo about this
barren bear
yeah, i'm aware of the particle collision approach :<
i was just hoping they added a more direct way to do it
barren bear
but it needlessly uses particles > w<
fluid grotto
Just checked. I don't think it works
modest sun
You can also use a rigidbody, collider, camera (local) and animator to do it
barren bear
darn :<
modest sun
Don't think what works @fluid grotto
fluid grotto
Changing animator parameters outside of the pie menu
modest sun
Yes, it is reported to work by multiple reputable creators
fair parrot
Could we get some useful link 📌's from users here or in #avatar-help or is now not the time?
barren bear
unity has all sorts of on collision events that are currently not accessible to us except through roundabout methods O: i don't really see how they would be abusable so long as they're kept local to the avatar. i really hope they get added ❤️
modest sun
Sure, though with av3, even the "hacky" methods are extremely simple
barren bear
simple yeah, messy though D:
distant jacinth
can some1 please help me
i need help it wont let me publish my avatars
and i have 36 hours on vr chat
but is says my account needs more time
fluid grotto
That's correct
distant jacinth
wdym correct?
barren bear
ty for answering my questions btw <3!!
fluid grotto
I can get more into it in #vrchat-general-2 , but the short answer is no.
distant jacinth
ok
fluid grotto
Avatars 3.0: "Ok fine, YOU do it then."
silver adder
Sacrificing some simplicity for power.
fluid grotto
If you don't want to use any of the new features, it's actually easier than Avatar 2.0 - you don't need Blender to set up eye tracking anymore.
Is good all around. This is Christmas in July
sturdy smelt
yea its a lot easier, just with more options for more things if you want to
fluid grotto
This morning my friend asked me what all is new in Avatar 3.0 then went AFK. Every time i learn something new, I've been sending him a short message about it. He has a flood of messages now.
sturdy smelt
not sure if its still finicky with bone names, but i dont think it is
sturdy smelt
accidentally set my feet as eye bones earlier and was wondering why they were pointing down, so dont think so
fluid grotto
Hi Tupper! Is it known that defining a blink shapekey but not defining any eye bones breaks everything? :D
sturdy smelt
doesnt even need to be on the head lmao
woeful ruin
maybe, don't do that though 🙂
Also, I assume you've already reported it on the Feedback board?
because if you didn't report it
it doesn't exist
sturdy smelt
i havent reported you yet either 👀
fluid grotto
@proud loom Yes! https://store.steampowered.com/app/438100/VRChat/
proud loom
ty
fluid grotto
Ok I haven't seen anyone ask, and it's not in any of the docs, so what's the deal with Supine? Can it be activated? Are there proxy animation names we can create to use them?
I'm under the assumption it is a state for laying on your back, but filling in a controller didn't activate anything
lime plume
Is there any info on when AV3 will be released / live alpha like udon?
woeful ruin
Supine is not implemented, may or may not actually implement, not decided yet @fluid grotto
weary harbor
honk
sturdy smelt
what even is it?
fluid grotto
Supine, means laying on your back, opposed to prone, which means laying on your chest.
sturdy smelt
ahh, i see
sand wren
i think it might be meant more for VR users maybe
to help adjust for people who play laying on their back in bed or in a chair
short timber
GestureLeft and GestureRight seem the wrong behavior when use VIVE wands.
[VIVEwands pos] [output]
Neutral(0) Neutral(0)
Fist(1) Fist(1)
HandOpen(2) HandOpen(2)
fingerpoint(3) HandOpen(2)
Victory(4) fingerpoint(3)
RockNRoll(5) Victory(4)
HandGun(6) RockNRoll(5)
ThumbsUp(7) HandGun(6)
As a result, I cannot do a thumbsup gesture.
real patrol
There seems to be a bug with the photo camera, at least on WMR.
Grabbing it doesn't make it hold/toggle it in your hand until you release and it automatically takes a picture whenever you pick it up
ornate ether
Does any one know where i can get a good robot arm from???
short timber
Oh, I cannot grab the photo camera without keep holding trigger too
I posted to canny.
upbeat gust
Not a fan of these new default animations for walking, crouching, and prone.
Walking seems so stiff, crouching looks like you are taking a s***.
fluid grotto
The old ones are included. They are the ones that start with 2
I think the new standing and prone look great though
fluid grotto
Finally rid of call of duty prone
Are you sure? Because historically vrchat always did weird things with shoulders and you had to rig avatars in a weird way to avoid it, now you don’t have to but the avatars made for it probably look wrong
fluid grotto
See above
fluid grotto
See if it deforms better in t pose
fluid grotto
But I have to emphatically disagree, the new idle stand is beyond better. Desktop stand always looked oddly hunched over and half squatting, now they stand like a normal person
silver adder
I'm just glad we finally have jumping animations.
fluid grotto
You can define your own states too.
upbeat gust
I mean, the animation is better for the most part, but the shoulders just look wrong. Probably not a problem in VR.
fluid grotto
Someone said “aww, no crouch landing” and someone responded “so make one” and that’s when it clicked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEUFAsqquUs
sturdy smelt
3 point landing or bust
upbeat gust
Is there anything that goes into messing with the idle animations?
Cause it obviously does not work the way I thought it did.
raw sonnet
A question I have is if individual hand gestures are going to be a thing, because I want to, for example control when my arm blades come out without it effecting the other arm
storm verge
you can throw the animation on on the motion on any animation state on either left hand layer on right hand layer
oak mason
oh, so there ARE new default movement anims, and I wasnt going completely mental
restive rivet
I'm just glad we finally have jumping animations.
Oh my god I can't believe we finally got this
No more suddenly floating up?
raw sonnet
I wish I can map the button to jump instead of using the right controller thumbstick
upbeat gust
Wait, you have to press the thumbstick down to jump?
raw sonnet
With my quest controllers via sidequest (to stream SteamVR wirelessly)
upbeat gust
Oof.
raw sonnet
It can get annoying at times
upbeat gust
I feel like that would wear out the joystick really quickly.
raw sonnet
That's why I'm waiting to get the Kat walk c
upbeat gust
kat walk?
raw sonnet
VR treadmill
upbeat gust
Ah.
I don't do VR because of my eye sight, so I don't really follow whats going on in terms of new tech.
raw sonnet
I use the ipd slider to adjust it to my eyes. My ipd is 68 and it's fine
sonic spade
VR treadmill, more like VR slippery bowl
raw sonnet
I wish it was a bit flatter with frictionless shoes
modest sun
Can we keep it to av3
upbeat gust
I don't think that's gonna help me. I only have one functioning eye, and it's only got about a foot of usable vision. lol
raw sonnet
Saw some footage. It looks great.
inland sage
Soooo are AV3's able to exchange data between one another in a more generalized way?
sand wren
whats that supposed to mean
if you mean they can talk to eachother... sorta?
i believe you can use stage parameter drivers with other animators on the character too
if so then u can still use the particle stop animation hacks
and like set parameters on ur avatar based on them
inland sage
Was mostly wondering about getting bone positions/rotations
inland sage
Nvm that would be way too involved anyway
upbeat gust
The Avatar 3 SDK seems to like to kill itself a lot.
Seemingly out of nowhere it just breaks and can no longer compile.
Reimporting it seems to fix it.
upper remnant
that has never happened to me
if this has happened to you multiple times there is probably some active issue you need to diagnose
upbeat gust
No idea.
sand wren
also yes wow apparently that person was right
uploading an avatar w/o eye bones but with eye blend shapes
breaks your expression menu, breaks your avatar for other people, and you will be invisible in the mirror
lovely
upbeat gust
Ah, figured it out. Pumpkin script was causing it.
Also, that idle animation really needs some work. Like it makes the shoulders move when going in and out, so if I fix the position while I am still, my shoulders raise up when I start walking. Really weird. None of my custom animation caused this nor do the old idle animations. Happens in both T pose and A pose.
sand wren
@upbeat gust a lot of plugins break vrchats sdk constantly for no reason
even ones i have that don't even touch anything at all almost
upbeat gust
^
sand wren
ur avatar will start turning around like their neck is broken when walking and their body flies up so far when jumping
mostly due to new viewpoint and ik updates
upbeat gust
Yeah. well I can't really do VR, but I do know a lot of animation stuff gets cancelled out when using trackers. Idle animations are one.
Anyways, if you look at my shoulders through out this video as I move back an forth you will see what I mean. The first avatar is the T pose so that my shoulders don't sag, second is A pose with an idle animation. third and forth are on the old avatar system, one using default and another using the custom idle.
Their new default idle has some messed up shoulder positioning that does not match their walking or running shoulder positions at all. At least for me anyways.
proud veldt
I can't use the action menu on Vive wands when "vive advanced control" is enabled?
sand wren
a lot of people said that
jeez why do u have like 140 of the same avatar
i just upload on top of my old one
upbeat gust
Yeah, I should probably go through and clean up.
Also, this new crouch animation completely killed all the weight painting work I did my my avatars skirt....
Old: https://i.imgur.com/vxpNLj4.png
New: https://i.imgur.com/V0NGo0P.png
sand wren
i think they need to revert the viewpoint stuff
some people told me it was a decision much later down the line
upbeat gust
What, can you guys also see the back of your head when you jump?
sand wren
not when in fullbody but i think i have
upbeat gust
lol.... https://i.imgur.com/dn27UIZ.png
modest sun
@proud veldt There's a canny on it. maybe you can vote on it / add more detail: https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/bug
hmm maybe better to open a new one and be a bit more descriptive :-p that "bug"
deft lodge
Damn, i believe teleport rpc function of SDK2 worlds is really really bad on this build
It was bad enough on Live to sometimes leave your avatar behind walls in the way of teleport locations or shoot you up in god knows how high Y axis
but in this build it's really really consistent and i'm still with no idea what's causing it exactly - it happens really often on this build
cobalt yew
hm. aim constraints don't seem to work in mirrors. others are saying they see it work fine in both the world and the mirror but for me in the mirror the animation seems to override the constraint. http://prntscr.com/tgwin1
fluid grotto
i believe you can use stage parameter drivers with other animators on the character too
Is there a benefit to using a second animator anymore? I thought much of the point of this was avoiding multiple animators
Since you can just make additional layers on any of the 5 main ones, and they'll be consolidated into a single animator
cobalt yew
@fluid grotto i'd say for props with single looping animations. To keep them more reusable.
fluid grotto
Why not just a second, new layer on the Gesture animator?
make an off animation, and transition them to each other. then the animation always starts over
upper remnant
@fluid grotto you still need a child animator for animating root motion, as well as on particle death animation
fluid grotto
Figured there was something too advanced for me that still needed it.
What’s the best blend mode for 2-axis if you’re aiming something up down left right?
Driven by 4 animations
queen swift
any body know when this is going to go live?
upper remnant
Depends on the results of this beta I think. They're probably going to freeze feature changes really soon. Sdk 2 avatars will still work so if there are no outstanding bugs discovered I don't see why this wouldn't go to live in a matter of weeks
fluid grotto
Customizing the avatar with the expression menu needs to be persistent across world change and across wearing the avatar again later... all my non-unity friends are expecting it to act like that and surprised when they have to set stuff up over and over
Probably very annoying to code but it seems that everyone expects it to work like that
wintry glade
Not saying it wouldnt be cool, but toggles have always reset between worlds
fluid grotto
True but you’ve never been able to deeply customize an avatar to this extent before (messing with blend shape sliders, colors, outfits)
wintry glade
You could get pretty close with the inventory systems, besides the sliders
slim trout
Has anyone else noticed that setview is super sticky and frequently refuses to change value properly?
half imp
@inland sage @sand wren avatar to avatar systems and Av-to-world and back is a project that we'll be working on as a near term project. First up is getting the basic Avatar 3.0 system out.
half imp
@sand wren you'll need @fallow sequoia to help
sand wren
alright
half imp
@inland sage You can imagine our discussions internally over the last six months to a year 😉
sand wren
im glad the system is out tho
can u also add ways to change the increments of the radial menu
half imp
Yeah, been good to see all the bugs and feedback
sand wren
or add something else
because my avatar has a pitch controller, i can send you the blueprint ID for it if u wanna take a look at it
and having it be freeform radial menu is nice but also makes it a bit hard to change the pitch
if there was a slider or something that kept its value and moved with joystick movement only would be nice
they work fine for me
at least av3.0 emotes
neon mortar
took a bit of effort but i got mine working too
half imp
Please put in canny. I'm ultra busy and (a) I wont' remember discord request and (b) needs to filter through production internally
I'm multi-tasking. In a production call but skimming discord(s)
😛
inland sage
While youre here...do you feel alienated a lot? :^)
neon mortar
also ive been wondering, i remember hearing that you could use visemes as a trigger for animations, how hard would that be to implement?
inland sage
Well that was my dad joke of the year, cya next one
half imp
Sure, I'll get right on that. Be done by tomorrow.
inland sage
Nice.
half imp
lol
neon mortar
lol
inland sage
👌
inland sage
./ban modded-client-users
half imp
ok, I gotta run. thank you for all the helpful feedback, interested and ideas. It's really awesome to see everyone using hte new stuff
plz don't. just email moderation@vrchat.com thanks
Let's keep this about avatars 3.0 plz
bye
sand wren
there
and yes
make a 3.0 sub menu for both arms
animate them using gesture or action layer
ive made avatars that have surgeon simulator controls for the hands
?
sand wren
thats what the cannys for
half imp
atomic blade
I'm curious if anyone has suggested freeing up the tracker system, or if its even possible. Everyone seems to use them to do full body but they were marketed at first to be placed on props and other things.
neon mortar
the problem is that i just kinda need someone to guide me along, im not a fan of written docs
i should probably wait anyway since i dont even have the avatar in unity yet lol
fluid grotto
Just do what I do and pretend you are clueless. 💯
That said what is the benefit or using a 4 axis puppet over a 2 axis? It seems to be the same? The 2 axis still outputs four 0 to 1 values in the blend mixer
neon mortar
i have autism... reading blocks of text is too overwhelming. thats why i asked if someone could help me along.
fluid grotto
Much more effective
sturdy smelt
It's more like needing visual learning instead of just written probably
Like whenever more actual YouTube tutorials come out, think moon and that demo guy both have 3 vids each
woven goblet
People are still experimenting with it.
Will take a while before any really good tutorials is out there
fluid grotto
No no doubt I’m a visual learner as well. I saw someone slap up a 2 axis in unity and I’m like ok got it
lapis sand
I just noticed there are sliders for eyelook, no idea how it looks xD
visual dagger
@neon mortar not sure how far along you are with the 3.0 stuff, but i've made some basic video tutorials that may help
neon mortar
i know gestures, and basic expression and emote stuff, this was just kinda the next thing i was interesting in doing since i know a few things i could add it to
visual dagger
ah, probably beyond what I have so far then
lime plume
Can you play with current live version players when using the open beta? because i wanna AV3 but i wanna play with others
visual dagger
i'll be making more videos to cover additional stuff as I get the time
neon mortar
ok
visual dagger
no, if you have the 3.0 beta installed you can only play with 3.0 users
but you can change back to the non-beta and play with others if you need to
lime plume
ik you cant play with others on the AV3 beta, idk how it works on the open beta branch tho
visual dagger
ah, didnt realize there was a new beta branch.. not sure about that
lime plume
guess ill test it
woven goblet
It's the same on both
AV3 is in it's own. You can not play with Live or Open Beta
Same as Open Beta can not play with Live or AV3 Beta
lime plume
big sad
visual dagger
yeah, it actually says so in the #open-beta-announcements
lime plume
i only saw the community announcement
visual dagger
so @neon mortar what specifically are you trying to figure out? If it's something I can help with I can try to fit it into the next video
neon mortar
just trying to work out viseme triggered animations
i found a picture of a setup of it but i cant make heads or tails of it
visual dagger
like the voice activated stuff?
neon mortar
yea
visual dagger
yeah, that's pretty complex, not sure I understand it fully yet 😛
neon mortar
oof
visual dagger
quite a few people have been playing with it though
south plank
i like the new SDK but i would like it more if i didnt have to relearn the SDK completely . .
visual dagger
yeah, I was just getting the hang of some more advanced 'work arounds' in sdk2, but now have to learn sdk3
on the plus side, i don't have to use work arounds anymore since the new system allows basically everything
south plank
i just hope we aernt forced to use it because its too advanced for me. .
neon mortar
im kinda glad that i never got around to any advanced things in sdk2, mostly just a clean slate
south plank
yea
woven goblet
Forced to use SDK3? Eventually we will be.
neon mortar
yeah im just barely understanding this stuff, thankfully a friend has been breaking some of this down for me
visual dagger
it's really not that advanced, I think we're just lacking on tutorials and info for the most part since it's new
woven goblet
It's just lack of tutorials, for those who don't really understand it from the docs.
visual dagger
that's why i decided to make some videos for it, it's really much easier than it looks, you just have to know the right buttons to push
woven goblet
Other than that, SDK3 isn't really that much more difficult. It's just that we have more things to play around with.
For simple gestures, you just need to use one thing, and nothing else
visual dagger
in fact, i had a harder time with sdk2 because of all the limitations and things it couldn't do even thought the system was technically there
neon mortar
hard to say for me since im just so used to it but i found things more intuitive there, the way things are now just kinda feels like it takes longer to achieve similar results. hard to say though since im still learning
old lintel
Noticed you can't use vive advanced controls with 3.0, is that going to change on full release?
woven goblet
old lintel
Bless you, thanks
sand wren
is there something wrong with audio sources...?
my audio source seems to have infinite range
even though i have it set only to 20 meters
silver adder
Oh my god I can't believe we finally got this
@restive rivet Sorry for the late reply but, only avatars compiled with the new AV3 SDK do tho, old avatars still use the original animation set.
restive rivet
Yeye I know, but everything about AV3 is amazing news
All the avatars I use are mine so all I'll have to do is update them
fluid grotto
It’s more than just jumping animations. You can make your own state machines entirely so if you want a good prejumping and landing animation you can do those too, or add entirely new states that don’t currently exist
Like more walking speeds or 16 directional walking instead of 8
silver adder
I know that, I'm just talking about the new default animation set. That's really nice for people that don't care about making their own animation set.
lost niche
I'm tempted to shove like, 20 outfits on a single avatar
but that would take forever to load
vague bolt
did the devs say anything yet about how far out the avatar 3.0 release might be?
fluid grotto
They did not
fickle jewel
hey, so I have two questions related to av3
fluid grotto
Am I doing textured visiemes correctly? I know how parameter conditions work, I just don't know what Exit / Any State does. https://i.imgur.com/IQU2wmt.png
fickle jewel
for one, can you interact with things on your avatar? Like physically drawing a sword, for example?
or is it just the new action menu
fluid grotto
If you figure out how to make your desired gesture detectable in an animator, yes, you can make it work and set a stageparameter that gets network syched
fickle jewel
alright, sounds complicated but it's cool that it's possible
fluid grotto
Detecting actual hand motion would be the tricky part
fickle jewel
second, is it worth learning how to make an avatar at this point when they're going to be overhauled so soon?
because I have almost no clue how to make them and was about to try and figure it out
fluid grotto
It's not that big of an overhull. I wouldn't focus on making gestures, but everything else is the same
The process of making an avatar is the same, making gestures and interactive content is all new. it's stuff that wasn't there before
visual dagger
as far as modeling or whatever to get an avatar into the game, you can start that part
fickle jewel
oh ok
visual dagger
anything related to animations is changing in 3.0 though
fluid grotto
yeah if you want an avatar that doesn't do anything special besides match your head and VR controllers, nothing changed
visual dagger
figure out your basic visemes for lip sync, eye blinks/eye movement, etc those are mostly the same besides how they're setup in unity
but again, that's modeling stuff, not animation directly
fluid grotto
But yeah if you get used to 2.0 gestures you'll have to unlearn a bit for 3.0
though, 2.0 will keep working
visual dagger
on the plus side, by the time you switch to 3.0 there should be plenty of tutorials to watch
fluid grotto
Do 2.0 avatars do the AFK pose and other new things? I know they still do the army crawl
visual dagger
don't think so, as far as I know anything attached to the descriptor is new for 3.0 only
I could be wrong though
though, they may get the default afk animation, just no way to override it
visual dagger
speaking of which, new tutorial on how to setup AFK override 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIGodOda-c
burnt flax
they seem to import 2.0 to 3.0. however, you want full custom. 3.0 be way to go 🙂
i love it so far. i just hope it not going take to long in beta 🙂
silver adder
It's not that big of an overhaul.
That's a BIG understatement. This will be a game-changer for content creators.
hasty hemlock
like several of the test 3.0 avatars basically has character creator sliders on them if they add a feature for it persist in between worlds then you give pedestal users a lot more flexibility in self-expression
silver adder
Man the Build & Test feature is so nice. Not having to reupload to the server every time i need to test a change.
visual dagger
yeah, I love it
restive rivet
If they make it persistent, that's it, anyone can have simple "custom" avatars straight from pedestals
This would be so cool for communities based on avatars like the bestbois, yeens, nanachis, avalis, etc
hasty hemlock
yeah that would be awesome and if you're clever with your blendshapes & object turning on and off you could probably get a decent anime Avatar generator
teal path
hhhhh I wish 3.0 would release soonerrrrrr
but the safety system broke
so it will liiiikely be a while
restive rivet
As much as I love all of this, it's better if it takes time to betatest
It will only become better
teal path
I want my set of 15 face expressionssss
silver adder
Yeah, UDON has the excuse of being it's own thing. Which is why it got into the release version quicker. Avatars 3.0 is a massive overhaul that is going to require extensive testing in order to not break the game.
teal path
The biggest issue is that it will require a full safety overhaul
because rn safety has no effect
restive rivet
I want my set of 15 face expressionssss
I currently have 5 expressions. Closed hand is always triggered on the index controllers so I had it empty, and I want to point without triggering anything so I also removed that. I'm so so so hyped about having literally unlimited expressions with little to no compromises
silver adder
Not even outright disabling avatars for a certain rank has any effect?
restive rivet
Wait, it doesn't?
teal path
not for avatar 3.0 avatars
silver adder
I would assume disabling audio and shaders would work. Since those weren't really changed.
restive rivet
Oh okay, I thought you meant in the live version. That's to be expected though, it's REALLY new
teal path
i only tested animations
restive rivet
Speaking of safety, am I the only one who thinks we need a "disable shaders" button next to "disable avatar"? 90% of the times my only problem with an avatar are their shaders
I hate the gray robot
silver adder
But there are separate buttons for disabling shaders and avatars outright tho.
restive rivet
I mean when you select a user, not for ranks
I like to show every single avatar (I have no fears) and only hide the ones that are annoying. As I said most of the times it's obnoxious shaders, unlit shaders in dark worlds or crazy ammount of emission and shit
hollow path
I mean i have shaders off for everyone then i click show on every avatar. If i lag then i just click on the reset safety setting thing
upbeat crescent
speaking of which, new tutorial on how to setup AFK override 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIGodOda-c
@visual dagger Thanks for this! very much appreciate the low key narration too 🙂
arctic depot
@woeful ruin Would it be possible to have a local socket/websocket, so you could feed 2D puppets/sliders values from external apps? For example people who have eyetracking could send eye positions. I have a DIY heart rate monitor and would like to animate my avatar heart + sound using my real heart waveform. It would be pretty neat if we could just send some JSON data to a port VRChat is listening to
Or midi/OSC device events, you have a system which uses those already, maybe it could be used to control avatars 3.0 too?
upper remnant
Make a canny for it so the idea exists longer than today
steel shuttle
Is it true that with avatars 3.0 you cant do gestures with your controller directly and have to go through the menu at all time?
shy rose
You can set it up so that you can do shapekeys when you do gestures.
steel shuttle
And thats set up is in unity directly i assume. Is it through animations like before. Because there are things i toggle that arent ahapekeys
Like the particles for inventory systems or just some weapons that can be toggled
deft lodge
it is through animations, pretty much anything you can record as an animation can be used with this system, although the process itself is different
steel shuttle
Ok. What about the avatars that are already released. Do they need to be redone with that system?
deft lodge
SDK2 avatars will still be supported but you won't be able to use any of the new features unless you build it specifically around SDK3
steel shuttle
Ok thats good. I though gesture facial and hand movement were completely removed and that would have been really bad for acting some characters
upbeat crescent
so just to confirm, the idea is to have a single animation controller per animation layer you want to override with multiple layers, then you use expressions to activate specific animation controller layers, depending on which bit of menu you're in?
fluid grotto
“It’s not that big of an> That's a BIG understatement. This will be a game-changer for content creators.
@silver adder The context was in moving from SDK 2 to 3. It’s not blender 2.8 “everything you know is now wrong” territory.
upbeat crescent
i started moving my personal av over to 3.0 tonight - 3.0 is a joy and sdk2 is dead to me now, bugs and surprises aside it's awesome 🙂
fluid grotto
Yes, @upbeat crescent all 5 layers have access to your stage parameters, which can be driven in a menu of your own design. These stage parameters are network syched so anything made with them is free from desync
eager horizon
I am hoping this will put the barrier of entry a bit higher so we start seeing more thoughtout models
upbeat crescent
i'm going to try to make some kind of transformity werecreature
and it seems like that should be possible in Av3.0 without any dodgyhax involved, since it's much easier to hold a state and it seems to work more in harmony with the animation controller system
anyway thanks devs, you are awesome!
raw sonnet
I think sdk3 for avatars is a bit exciting since I can now have the talons I wanted to apply can now come out separately
fluid grotto
Avatars are now about at the level that worlds were at right before Udon. And that’s wonderful
I can’t even spend time in game because they keep adding toys to the SDK lol
neon finch
This update really boosted my enthusiasm for playing around with avatars in unity. I know theres still some bugs to work out, but I can't wait for this to go live.
fluid grotto
This was the kick I needed Honestly it has me more excited than udon. I’m on the hype train and all my friends are like shut up about inventory systems already
neon finch
Same
wintry glade
I'm more interested in the things you couldnt do before, versus things just being easier
Although easier is obviously nicer
fluid grotto
Kung’s spoken word activated gestures dropped my jaw
woven goblet
Hai posted a video of it in showcase
fluid grotto
I wish we could formally define a game object as a prop and vrc would force it off when it’s off so it can be discounted from the avatar rank when not formally equipped
sand wren
it would be interesting if there were avatar triggers
like with the old world triggers so people can click things on ur avatar
but this time can drive stage parameter so that it syncs
modest sun
That's possible using particles or other mechanisms, but not officially supported.
What did you have in mind @sand wren
to make it sync, it would have to be another avatar with a special trigger collider on its finger or something
sand wren
i was thinking of something ike for example collider triggers so people can headpat or boop u and it spawns hearts or things like click triggers where u can have other people change what u wear or play a piano u spawn
modest sun
those are possible technically speaking in the current avatars 3.0 beta, but it requires the other player to have a special collider, and for you to do something like stop action with a driver animator
sand wren
ye
modest sun
would be cool if there was a way to expose a menu to other players, but I'm not sure what the interface would look like
sand wren
i mean if it was similar to the world triggers
could just add a component and then people can interact
modest sun
oh, like an interactable object?
wintry glade
Might have to wait for them to add some sort of inventory system
sand wren
bc u can make local only triggers for worlds
modest sun
I mean that's avatars 3.0
fluid grotto
I thought that’s what the expression menu was
modest sun
the feature request here would be an interact object with a Parameter Driver attached
the complicated part here is syncing
sand wren
not exactly
if the part is visible and its interactable currently on client
then u can just drive the parameter
modest sun
but you're asking for others to interact with your avatar
sand wren
yea so
modest sun
so the fact that you interacted has to be broadcast
which is basically deadly from a networking perspective
sand wren
once the client recieves it they get their parameter driven
and the client broadcast their parameter
modest sun
so instead, you'd want to do something physical that gets picked up by the avatar wearer, so you're back to something more like collision detection (requires the other person to have a special collider)
and we already have that
modest sun
"once the client recieves it they get their parameter driven" -> this is scary from a networking perspective
fluid grotto
And then in comes a client user who head pats you 4 million times per frame
modest sun
exactly my issue ^
sand wren
they can easily just monitor that
modest sun
you're flowing data in the wrong direction
the stage parameter system is carefully designed to avoid that risk
sand wren
it can be avoided
its the same reason why u cant just crash people just bc theres world triggers in sdk2 worlds
it makes no sense
those broadcast as well, how else would they work
if it did then u could crash users in Deathrun by trying to spam the start game button
and other similar things
im saying that its something that is easily avoidable
modest sun
nothing wrong with making a feature request
actually stations technically already do a broadcast RPC pretty sure
sand wren
yea they can deal with all that already so it wouldnt cause that many problems
more of just needing to implement it properly
and make sure that it only drives if u can actually interact with it at that moment in time
modest sun
probably the answer is limit number of interacts... just like they allow 6 stations you could do 6 interacts...
sand wren
who knows
fluid grotto
Is it possible to trigger a stage parameter when someone is sitting on a vrc station on your avatar?
I want my own avatar to play an animation when someone is sitting
modest sun
stop action death against the player collider maybe?
arctic kindle
just curious, when i go into avatar 3.0 beta, i wont be able to see other people who are not on the beta right?
fluid grotto
You will only able to see everyone else who is also on the beta
So most worlds will look empty. They are there you just can’t see them
sand wren
im not quite sure if animators can also drive stage parameters
modest sun
hey if we can get them to add a stage parameter when sitting, that would also allow the menus wunder wulfe wants, by sitting down :-p
modest sun
feature request would be cool
sand wren
i still havent found a screenspace shader for images for my avatar and idk where i can find one so i might just make it a 3d model lol
modest sun
the real question is: can you ... on the other person's avatar?
arctic kindle
cheers adeon
sand wren
oh yeah speaking of which i was going to make a dancing thing for avatar 3.0
i think i remember u can use animators in seats right for the person sitting
so u can pick a dance in avatar3 and have them dance with u
and change things like dancing speed or reposition them
modest sun
honestly I have no freaking clue what avatar stations do in av 3.0
I can't see them doing anything good :-p
sand wren
one thing i made was a seat on a like race car avatar
and i can reposition people who get in it
fluid grotto
@arctic kindle Tupper has a world link in #avatar-development-links and it’s where most beta people hang out
modest sun
like does it reset your main animator controller when you get off the chair?
arctic kindle
haha most beta people
sand wren
im pretty sure it just stacks on top of the avatar liek an action controller that or just replaces it entirely
modest sun
before, the avatar animator was really simple and so every time you sat down or got up, it would reset itself
arctic kindle
😂
fluid grotto
they need to rename it to alpha
sand wren
oh speaking of which
fluid grotto
So we are alpha peope
arctic kindle
so with av3 , do i need to make an av3 avatar when it releases to use the features? or will it just be built in , or is that unknown atm
sand wren
?????
the avatars u make right now are avatar3.0
but subject to compatibility issues bc its in beta
deft lodge
Can you please at least go through #avatar-development-links before asking 1000 questions across channels?
sand wren
and they may add remove or change things however they want
^
most of them are already in the info channels
like seriously
As it always is with any Open Beta, you will not be able to join people on Live when using this build, and they will not be able to join on you. You might want to use your Custom Status to inform your friends you're in the AV3 Open Beta!
and the fact that its in beta
if u guys want the k.k. slider avatar i will join again lol
hasty hemlock
so how do I find you then for the KK Slider
sand wren
i will join in a few hrs or u can ping and u can clone it
hasty hemlock
no need to rush because of me just perhaps put a message in here when you're online
sand wren
some of my friends complain about the beta crashing them on startup and them being unable to load it
also am getting on now @hasty hemlock
telling them to launch with https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_6168d07b-f55c-40bc-8077-749dde39983c seems to work
u can just go to public world i should be there
hasty hemlock
is your name on vrchat the same as the Discord as I don't see any KK sliders on the only public instance
sand wren
need pc restart first kek
hasty hemlock
no problem take your time
sand wren
he best to use in vr for dual menu control
hasty hemlock
I'll definitely make sure to check him out in VR after I have cloned them
hasty hemlock
I got the KK Slider that looks fun
sand wren
ye
eager horizon
umm
has anyone actually thought this update trough?
is this really something that should be given to the community?
what I am seeing done with it is already really good
but I cant help to think of the insane lag spikes I will get loading everyone in. people will make avatars with 20 pairs of clothing on a single avatar
we already have have people that have 50 meshes on a single avatar. Now give them the ability to pack many others in with a few clicks and I just see a recipe for disaster
I am just thinking out loud here. Please let me know your opinion
hasty hemlock
the Avatar ranking system would still account for that as all of the Hidden staff still counts towards you total from what I can tell
eager horizon
well yeah. But I dont want to become a quest user by blocking very poor avatars.
harsh zealot
I think they are planning to overhaul the safety system in preparation for this
eager horizon
oh?
harsh zealot
ye
pulsar lagoon
While I don't disagree with the sentiment, people who don't properly make their avatars and keep it laggy are going to be laggy either way. There's not a real good way to limit what people could do destructively with this system without limiting what can be done constructively. It feels kinda silly to prevent new systems because some people are gonna use it in a way that causes poor performance.
eager horizon
I thought the safety system will be untouched
harsh zealot
nah
I got that response when I posted a bug about blocked shaders with the new system hiding meshes on some avis
eager horizon
I see
harsh zealot
Hey red should I stream a tutorial on basic setup for av3 in a//a?
upper remnant
@eager horizon you can make a very poor performing avatar without animating a single keyframe. giving people tools to animate properly will only enable optimization
hasty hemlock
yes like using too many Dynamic bones
harsh zealot
^ a single animator controller for all of your outfits rather than 6
eager horizon
you can. But I wont join as I dont really have time and I want to start working with AV3 after I finish my current commission. And well, I dont plan on being active in A//A anymore besides posting my work
harsh zealot
oof
also red having multiple outfits on a single character is a common technique for video games
Take the hla zombie for example or the zombies from l4d
hasty hemlock
and also I suppose if you're really clever and it's a toon Style you could make different clothing pieces with blend shapes
sand wren
the only problem from that is increased load times and more memory to store temporarily hidden meshes
also i dont recommend making clothes with only blend shapes as it adds a lot of polygons and can cause clipping issues
instead use a separate mesh that has blend shapes on it
then just use equip and dequip animation
harsh zealot
what purpose would hiding them with blendshapes serve?
when you can just despawn the gameobject
sand wren
they can be animated to pop out or grow or shrink onto the character
my guitar on KK slider for example can be a separate mesh if i wanted to
but the polygon count is too low for me to consider it
the blend shape is to make it pop into existance and skew it when equipping and dequipping
hasty hemlock
and I suppose that helps cut down on the amount of draw calls
harsh zealot
blendshapes can be expesnsive too since its calculating the position of every vertex regardless of if it moves or not
for every shapekey
upper remnant
"expensive"
hasty hemlock
I suppose that's why vroid has the face as a separate mesh
harsh zealot
thank you lin
upper remnant
oh i didnt even read the typo lol
eager horizon
the thing is. I know other games use techniques like this but those games are also optimized well enough to allow for it.
upper remnant
by quoting the word i meant, all of this stuff is relatively cheap unless you're really trying hard to lag someone
eager horizon
but I dont know much so I will shut up
harsh zealot
correct
I feel like having the mesh render all the time would be more of a preformance hit than hiding the geo
also outfits SHOULD be less than 10k at the most
my example av3 avatar has 3 shirts and 2 pants
the total polycount for all of those outfits together is 9965
the character itself is 20k
eager horizon
when is the potential release date?
harsh zealot
when its done
eager horizon
well thats not helpful
upper remnant
my guess is within a few weeks
eager horizon
Id like an estimate
upper remnant
less than a month
eager horizon
thanks
upper remnant
i think
hasty hemlock
depends on how the user feedback goes
eager horizon
based on how well it already works
upper remnant
im basing it on how long i think it will take to resolve any currently known bugs. as soon as that is done, because this won't wipe any content, i think they will pull trigger
harsh zealot
hmm
eager horizon
I am just hoping I will have time to learn it before it comes out
harsh zealot
if you don't you'll need to pause commissions to learn cause im not sure if av2 sdk will continue to work
it probably will for a bit
upper remnant
yeah i dont think they intend to not support it for a while
hasty hemlock
from what I can tell all the 2.0 avatars will still work they just don't get new toys outside of the base UI
harsh zealot
time to archive sdk2
eager horizon
well this is my only commission. I am not accepting anymore
I want to learn AV3 and also get good enough where I feel like I deserve money for my work unlike until now
silver adder
“It’s not that big of an> That's a BIG understatement. This will be a game-changer for content creators.
@silver adder The context was in moving from SDK 2 to 3. It’s not blender 2.8 “everything you know is now wrong” territory.
That's not what i meant, i was said it was a game-changer in terms of all the new stuff you could do, not that it was different.
wintry glade
Going back to optimization, having multiple outfits was relatively easy with the emote system before so I dont see why it would be laggy all of a sudden with AV3.
hasty hemlock
partially because the users can have a lot more outfits
which would be a download time problem
silver adder
Tbh, not many people have slow enough internet for that to be a huge problem these days. That's just a minority of users.
(which i used to be a part of...)
dim glade
cries in down under land
fluid grotto
@hasty hemlock 2.0 avatars that aren't updated still get a few new features, the AFK will work automatically, and if they have a shape key called eyes_closed, they will close eyes while afk. Their 8 emotes get imported into a VRCExpressionMenu, and the 7 hand gestures work as expected and they still get the gesture-disable option.
They'll still use the call of duty army prone animation though lol
fluid grotto
They all look much better for me, honestly the idle, crouch, and prone animations seem to be very devisive, any time they get changed, there's half that go "wtf" and half that go "thank GOD they finally fixed it"
fluid grotto
The idle looks much better, it's no longer slumped
fluid grotto
idle still effects you a little, your neck and fingers (unless index) idle still shows up
fluid grotto
They need to work on the floor height otherwise fine. People tend to look dumb when they crawl around.
teal path
tru
fluid grotto
I lost my contacts pose
teal path
im preparing for the release
by converting all my avatars
and dear god
its tedious
fluid grotto
It's not too important to convert old stuff, unless you want to add new features
teal path
15 facial expressions
fluid grotto
oh it's not 15, it's uncapped
fluid grotto
Oh and this is unlikely but if a 2.0 avatar just happens to have shape keys called mood_happy , mood_sad , mood_suprised , and mood_angry, it will automatically get a 2-axis puppet menu for them.
sturdy smelt
That's a pretty cute prone pose tho 😳
teal path
I dont like the puppet menu
I just made matching facial expressions for every gesture combo
Which took multiple hours of thinking
I only have to do that for 2 other bases
lime plume
so you can have submenu-ception right? like 38 emotes
teal path
and make toggles and such for all 40ish outfits I have
yes
you can have 256 submenus according to ruuubick
rotund harness
I think you can have practically infinite submenus
just submenus all the way down
make a secret gesture that requires navigating through numbered submenus
lime plume
the outfit changing is pretty cool, I need to get some clothes for my avatar tho lol
teal path
I dont want multiple outfits per avatar
optimization
i just have toggles for some things
like shoes
Igbar no
sturdy smelt
?
rotund harness
Igbar yes
teal path
I will yeet you
lime plume
yeah I'd want a toggle for like a scarf and thigh highs or something
lime plume
idk how to do it for 1 yet lol
my friend has a different avatar for each outfit, so it's nice you don't have to do that
lime plume
yeah I'm sure I can figure it out
I figured out orange justice with a couple people here a few days ago
can't wait for live beta
teal path
Saaame
theres a lot to be fixed before
and I fear that all my work ive done so far might break
lime plume
the percentage slider for like, boober size seemed a bit broke
not sure if it's the menu or just how the demo was set up
rotund harness
I heard it was the demo, they left looping enabled on the animation so when it reached 100% it unintentionally wraps back around to the start of the animation at 0%. Just turn off looping and it should be fine?
lime plume
I figured it might be that
teal path
Oh well Imma just continue readying my avatars for 3.0 whenever im bored and hope nothing breaks
fiery crow
Looping on a clip shouldn't matter if you're just driving a parameter for normalized time to get the analogue control
since the clip isn't actually "playing" you're just scrubbing through it based on the parameter value
Unless it still tries to loop back to frame 0 at 1 in which case yeah that's broke 🤷♀️
white laurel
I already posted this on the canny but what about a personal mirror you can toggle so you can select the correct facial expression more easily?
I personally would find this extremely helpful
woeful ruin
we've seen many posts like that 😉 but in the meantime, you can use either a HUD shader or something similar in combination with the IsLocal anim prop to show your own indicator for gestures/expressions/etc
I believe @loud surge 's HUD shader would work wonderfully for that-- in fact I'm pretty sure he used it for exactly that on some of his avatars? Or maybe that was Kimple. Don't remember.
white laurel
Cool. I have no clue how avatars work (although I do plan on learning eventually), I'm just saying that'd be helpful to have for avatars in general
Also, I kept instinctively hitting Gestures instead of Expressions when trying to get to expressions, could the menu be altered so it says "Gestures on/off" or something? Would make things more straightforward.
solemn portal
white laurel
Also, I'd prefer that when Gestures are turned off, they switched back to default gestures (point, peace, rock-'n'-roll, etc) instead of custom. Or to have an option for this. Can you make multiple gesture profiles with v3?
I put all these on the canny but I also wanted to express them here. I'm not an avatar creator, I just wanted to try out some v3 avatars and give feedback.
silver adder
what SDK do I use for the avatar 3.0 ?
@loud harness AV3 has it's own beta SDK currently you have to use, link is at the top of #avatar-development-links.
white laurel
The menu is great, you can even lock it to your view so you can operate it discreetly, that's genius!
loud harness
woop woop found it . this is the fruit of my ignorance ! thanks @silver adder
silver adder
Np!
I would recommend importing that into a new project btw. Wouldn't want to break anything.
loud harness
alrighty . i still use the latest unity version for VRChat right ?
oh yeap just read it in the info
thanks !
silver adder
Yeah, there is a specific Unity version you have to use. It's listed there and in the SDK documentation.
neon finch
For avatars 3.0, I will need a example of a avatar in Unity to understand how it is working 😂
rigid turret
Finally got the tail scaling working happiest boyo in the world
modest sun
@neon finch no example avatar, but the sdk comes with all the example files. This page on booth will supply you with a nice example expression menu: https://gatosyocora.booth.pm/items/2210249
See if you can figure out the pieces. There's a tutorial linked in #avatar-development-links
neon finch
Oh ty
woeful ruin
New update available for avatars3-beta! We're now on 94305.
white laurel
What does it add?
woeful ruin
modest sun
@woeful ruin #avatar-development-links old sdk link
woeful ruin
ah ty
sturdy smelt
#rules 15 tupper
tsk tsk
im gonna have to ban you from mickey mouse club house now
sand wren
lol
tupper ban for spamm
also I'm like 90% sure that whatever the viewpoint updates were could be whats causing the spine issues in fullbody as well as the animations to look super duper wonky in fullbody
oak mason
oh, so thats why I didnt hear a lot of people saying animations were weird
modest sun
Updated my emulator package for the new SDK: https://github.com/lyuma/Av3Emulator/releases/tag/v0.4.1
Use this if you had the old one installed
rigid turret
Beta always hit different
woeful ruin
@sturdy smelt
🙂
Oops, forgot a bugfix: fixed issue with leaving eyebones blank when setting up Eyelook for blink-only
added to announcement channel
Ayy, and added a role you can add to yourself in #avatar-development-links . Click that reaction to get the role that we'll ping when there's new AV3 Open Beta updates out.
grizzled acorn
when you get so overly excited for the new SDK that you slap in your main project folder instead of your test one
low brook
Could you upload a avi with a neural network model attached? I've seen some stuff wih visemes recently
hasty hemlock
no you could not as no scripting for avatars
upper remnant
Maybe you could use a NN to train on your voice in order to build an animator that very accurately recognizes when you say certain things
That sounds like a nightmare though
oak mason
does the action menu still respond to desktop input (r key and mouse) when in vr?
having an external program that just sends inputs to vrchat when it hears a word would be exponentially easier
nimble portal
If I have an interrupted upload on beta 1, install beta 2, and try to upload again, will things be bad?
low brook
Yeah theres something to be said about external macros. I haven't had keyboard working in VR though is that an option?
I was looking ta the phase funciton nerual network stuff and was wondering if I could train the model on my own mocap data so my avatar moves like me but it sounds a couple of points too far up the skill tree here.
maybe within an Udon world though?
magic sleet
Showoff request: light up sketchers
oak mason
omg, Ive always wanted those IRL, but they suck IRL, Imma make em
and if possible, when they hit the ground, theyll cause ripples
also, they're gonna have full RGB settings
because why wouldnt they
neon finch
tfw can't react with 
to tupper's message because he has me blocked
sturdy smelt
LMAO
sonic spade
hidden epoch
Now if only if it was possible to change the viewheight of avatars ingame.
neon finch
speaking of, has anyone noticed any improvement in viewball position in fbt when laying down or sitting in 3.0? or came up with a way to fix it?