@neon mortar basically infinite emotes if you set them up
#avatar-general
crystal crag
neon mortar
interesting
finite marsh
and better inventory systems
neon mortar
god this is way too much for my brain to handle rn
marsh haven
@upper remnant wouldn't the desync still be an issue or am I completely overlooking something?
finite marsh
this update is "fun" i guess
junior geyser
@zenith gust More control. I'm having a hard time myself fully realising the what this new system can give me. But that's coz I haven't gotten in there and had a real look myself. Untill we do that, It'll be hard for us.
🙂
zenith gust
well with my marker rn, it activates with the point gesture
atomic blade
I would imagine the safety settings might with desynch
neon mortar
on one hand im extremely excited for what will come now and what the advanced avatar creators will do but on the other hand i can already see that this just isnt gonna be for me
crystal crag
@zenith gust you could add it as a toggle in the experssions menu
zenith gust
so I cant draw separate letters cause it just keeps drawing, and if i stop doing the gesture then it draws a random line cause it closes my hand.
upper remnant
@marsh haven No, desync is not a problem. In 3.0 you can globally sync a state, in any state
junior geyser
That's ok, @neon mortar. I reckon you could use Avatar 2.0 until there's something that you couldn't do that maybe 3.0 would allow you to do, then you'd look into it and you'd be surprised how fast you could learn it! ;D
upper remnant
its actually not that hard once you unlearn the override system and learn a little bit about animators
everything is actually easier
neon mortar
i can already see that i can redo the IS's that i just learned but i just dont know anything about animators at all
marsh haven
I presume you're gonna update your existing tutorials for this then. Because I'd love to learn the new way of doing it.
crystal crag
yeah took me a bit to get started but once i learned the animator system i've done plenty of cool things now XD
upper remnant
luckily there is very little non-standard stuff going on inside the animators
you can rely on generic unity tutorials
neon mortar
do you by chance have any starter tuts you could share?
narrow dirge
they should have a AV 3 bug section channel because I found a lot of bugs already
neon mortar
i dont really know what im looking for here
junior geyser
I reckon I'll set time for me to fully get into this next week! : D
marsh haven
Yeah I'd binge the living hell out of it atm if I had a good starter
upper remnant
i recommend the docs tupper wrote, i think they also made a video. they link to some resources
marsh haven
To research stop action with this Ofc
upper remnant
stop action still not official supported(yet), so you won't find anything about it in the docs
but i have a working prototype with all the advantages of 3.0
upper remnant
yeah i guess so, for now. simply because i want to prepare a lot of assets and material first
i dont know if i am using the utmost best patterns yet, so i need to work on that
but basically, learn how to use state behaviors, in particular the parameter driver
simple maple
@sour inlet Well, i was wondering if this avatar3 update would have something to do with FinalIK Unity asset functionality that been broken in VRC by vrc team week after i bought it for features that then got broken...
quartz flume
is this going to break everything??
dim glade
naw
upper remnant
you can drive a parameter from a child animator
marsh haven
That's fair. I'll wait and once it comes out I'll deffo support you somehow :D since I love making avatars that are completely immersive and stop action is a big step towards it.
stiff tangle
@quartz flume since existing avatars are 2.0, i highly doubt this will break anything, it's all kinda separate.
atomic blade
It worked fine when I loaded in on my own avatar.
quartz flume
ok cool
marble trail
the nanachi has an asshole lol
simple maple
Well things i made kinda work but only local
sour inlet
@simple maple I don't think there are specific changes related to FinalIK asset functionality in av3
simple maple
Yeah, unfortunately. But well, ima try and see if i can maybe go around it and be able to do some things i wanted with this av3 stuff now.
stiff tangle
depending on what you were trying to do with final IK, the unity 2018 constraints might be able to act as a decent enough stand-in
simple maple
Since it gives me options for more 'gestures' on avatar and some background animations and stuff if i am correct
sour inlet
@neon mortar reading up on the unity docs of animator controllers is the best place to start https://docs.unity3d.com/2018.4/Documentation/Manual/class-AnimatorController.html And once you have a handle on animator controllers all the stuff in tupper's main doc makes a lot more sense (and becomes pretty exciting)
neon finch
when will 3.0 go live/official. Has there been a date given?
neon finch
ok ty
simple maple
Give it half a year or so maybe 
foggy folio
So it’s just better menus and stuff and more information about the avatars
sour inlet
@simple maple I'd say try it and post feedback in beta, might be able to get either some new support if there's a simple missing* functionality that's blocking what you're trying to do, or some advice for how you might do what you specifically want with av3's parameter syncing. Though I don't think av3 stage parameter syncing is enough to handle a whole bunch of bone transforms
It's more about giving precise control over animator controller states and blend tree options mostly
marsh haven
Any experienced person might want to eloborate me more on the main cons and pros when deciding to like rely on the action system or pure gestures now.
clear ibex
I'll have to try this later tonight, currently watching SomethingWittyEntertainment play the new SAO game
onyx gate
i like the head puppet thing maybe a hand peppet would be cool as well
simple maple
@sour inlet Thanks for advice. Once i get ahold of all av3 functions then i'll go ahead and post some feedback
fiery crow
Being able to drive local parameters and sync them on our terms is great for designing touch interfaces ^^
sour inlet
@marsh haven expression menu cons: you have to look at a menu ( I haven't played with rebinding yet to see if you can get locomotion back with menu open), but if it takes input from the joystick and that's your locomotion you can't locomote with an expression menu open. Pros: easier to select and lock in a value from a much wider range of options. Gesture cons might be depending on your controller the detection is less reliable than a menu option, but doesn't require opening a menu
crystal crag
in the config menu you can bind the expressions menu to you hud so you don't have to look down at it
sour inlet
oh yeah ^
marsh haven
But you could technically still do the same amount of things in either when it comes to advanced animators and amount of emotes etc etc
Since I prefer gestures for immersion over a menu.
hasty hemlock
Just tried and mixed reality couldn't control the cursor for the action menu at all
dim glade
D:
hasty hemlock
Even tried with the default control binding to make sure that wasn't the problem
crystal crag
yes you can setup gestures @marsh haven still you just have to make the animator for them
marsh haven
Kinda crazy if you can do the same amount of things with both options with no real difference besides pure functionality
hasty hemlock
Also my controller was showing up as a Oculus rift controller in vrchat
crystal crag
in one of my avatar i setup a toggle for a boomerang using the experssion menu and still had the throwing of the boomerang tied to the fingerpoint gesture. @marsh haven
hoary gull
are states synced with people who join after a change?
marsh haven
What I was wondering tho was for example your puppet that you showed up, could you technically set that up without the emote wheel and just the gestures? @crystal crag
vestal cape
I hope we can rebind it so we don't have to use joystick click to bring up the action menu. Anyone who has index controllers knows that clicking the stick severely shortens the lifespan of your controller and induces drift
vestal gazelle
now this is epic
marsh haven
Maybe make it so a gesture can toggle the action menu 👀
coral grail
drift will happen anyways. i bound all my joystick click to other buttons and it still happened.
crystal crag
Yes if you wanted to you could set it up to control to parameter values with gestures @marsh haven
fiery crow
Now we can sync all of our touch interfaces 😏
marsh haven
That's actually really sick. This is all sounds really cool really hope this won't be too hard to get into.
dim glade
So we can't no longer use regular trigger gestures now?
vestal cape
@coral grail yes but the drift happens much sooner if you are always clicking the stick
crystal crag
@dim glade you can still use regular trigger gestures you just have to set them up in an animator
marsh haven
I'm curious to like what kind of limitations there's going to be for other people so you can't like just blow someone's pc up by having an insanely packed avatar xd
hoary gull
One avatar to rule them all
coral grail
eh, mine happened after 4 months and i bound them to other buttons as soon as i received the index. you can set the deadzone or whatever to fix it anyways. i did that and have been fine since.
dim glade
is there a way in the future to pre setup the old trigger gestures into the new animator
or at the very least reimplementing wouldn't be hard
vestal cape
the deadzone grows larger over time, to the point where the controller becomes unusuable lol
crystal crag
Once you have an animator setup you can use it for multiple avatars i setup my gestures one so i can just drag and drop the animations i wanted into them @dim glade
hoary gull
is there a filesize limit on avatars.... 
simple maple
Well, it may be a stupid question but it is late for me here. Basically now (want to confirm) we could make gestures sets that we can choose from with av3 menu 
crystal crag
yes you can @simple maple
dim glade
so in a nutshell say if someone make their own animator with the old trigger gestures its just good to go from there for other people too?
coral grail
yeah, index controllers are like that. there's nothing you can do.
simple maple
I thought so, that will help for sure
crystal crag
yeah depending on the animator you could share it out to others to be able to use @dim glade
quasi oriole
I want to use two eyes blink for right and left on eyelid option. blink or left and right blink option. it show only blink.
dim glade
that clears up alot thanks
crystal crag
@quasi oriole you'll need to use a blendshape that blinks both eyes
sour inlet
@quasi oriole the new eye look system requires a single blink blendshape you can go in blender and activate both blend shapes and choose the little drop down triangle near blendshapes to make a new shape key from the mix and use that
karmic helm
anyone who has been in the test for this, has anyone else noticed a change in finger tracking on index? for me, it's suddenly perfect and tracks so well. I don't know if anything even changed for that
quasi oriole
I hope it will add left and right blink in future. you know...eye tracker hardware (vive pro eye)
sour inlet
That would be pretty cool, you can still do old style gestures or new expression menus or other parameter controlled options to manually cause your avatar to wink or something though
And now you have the option to disable the eyelook script too with your wink animation so you don't get a double blink blend shape
fluid tide
i was just about to learn how to make avatars and looks like i have come across a new stage of avatar making
😦
sour inlet
@neon finch I think it counts as "sdk3" but it's not udon at all
ionic jetty
I'm reading through documentation and I see this bullet point "Allow combinations of actions that weren't possible before, especially using two hands." So . . . say that ball that spins around the hand, now we can have two independent ones?
Poi
crystal crag
@ionic jetty you can setup seperate gestures for each hand if you wanted too
verbal maple
I wonder if it'd be at all possible to pull up the expression menu via a hand motion in combination with a gesture, similar to that SAO menu someone made in a Udon world.... Though since Udon isn't part of it it's unlikely right?
crystal crag
or use two seperate experssion menu options with each hand too @ionic jetty
neon finch
I thought the new avatar creation system would use udon.. hmm maybe it will in the future
fiery crow
No 🙂
sour inlet
@verbal maple as far as I know, not easily. The opening of the expression menu is handled through input binds so you'd have to fight with steamvr binding customization to try and get something working
neon finch
Whats so special about the new av3
verbal maple
Hmm, I guess just opening it with a bind is more convenient as well, so that's alright
sour inlet
@neon finch it's sdk3 but you're not gonna be running udon noodles and nodes to execute a bunch of code from your avatar. av3 is special because it puts pretty close to all the power of unity animator controllers in your control for avatar creation
neon finch
Can we do custom ik to plant spider feet
Afaik main difference is we can use animation layers now but idk there must be more
slim bay
Aaaa I'm excited for this, gonna be making my first Avatar soon and av3 has me on good levels of hype 
sour inlet
We get ~16 custom parameters that are synced so it removes a bunch of the hackiness people had to go through before to try to sync animator states
So for example you'd set up a parameter maybe call it "ActiveInventoryItem" and when it's set to 0 you don't have anything out
and when it's set to 1 you have a banana
and 2 you have a chicken
etc etc
and it's synced for late joiners perfectly and you can drive the changes to that parameter through arbitrary animator controller states, or through the expression menus
and because gestures can result in animator controller states, drive it through gestures too if you want
sour inlet
Yeah
And get creative with you you'd activate them
I'd be a bit tough to be consistent but with a lot of effort you could even make a state machine that tries to mach visemes for "we need guns" and just speaking that could summon your guns
because you have access to the current active viseme as a parameter too
verbal maple
Ooh, voice commands
sour inlet
Yeah though it'd be as finicky the current viseme detection is multiplied by the number of visemes in a chain to activate
A user in closed beta got something working
I plan to do some short things for face expressions. I tend to say "nice" as a reaction a lot, so I'm gonna make that cause a smile
verbal maple
Yeah I'd imagine they have to be simplistic with sound, like say, "Aeiou", activates AA EE II OU Vis. and summons a moonbase helmet
sour inlet
sil -> nn - > aa -> ih -> ss -> sil -> check for long silence -> activate
something like that
sour inlet
Tupper said there isn't a TLDR and there isn't really because there's so much that's either easier or newly possible, but I'd say a sorta TLDR is that they took a look at the power that animator controllers give any arbitrary unity game dev, and did a best effort to give those powers to vrc avatar creators
neon finch
I guess they will never add udon to avatars since there would be too many crashers
sour inlet
Hehe yeah* (edit- I mean who knows in the long run), like the Cory in the House avatar was enough back in the day, instead imagine 30 udon worlds simultaneously loaded and running code near you
fluid tide
I guess they will never add udon to avatars since there would be too many crashers
there's too much crashers already
tranquil flare
can you control your view point with this?
sour inlet
crimson rampart
so regarding the SDKs. I will need SDK3 to use the AV3.0 SDK yes?
atomic blade
No, the avatar sdk3 is separate from the world udonsdk3
neon mortar
right now im just working on trying to redo what i had made on my main avatar, i guess ive set up everything i can without looking at documentation
crystal crag
@crimson rampart Its probably best to start a new project for avatars 3.0 and then import any avatars and such from your old project into it
crimson rampart
fair idea
patent wagon
Will Avatars 3.0's features be usable on desktop as well, or is it limited to VR only?
hasty hemlock
pressing the R button brings up the menu on desktop
pine horizon
definitely gonna need to read up on the AV3 stuff 👀
I'd assume there'd also be a keybind for gamepads to access actions at some point
crimson rampart
i assume you can now have as many gestures as you want yes?
patent wagon
I know I read through the documentation twice, and I honestly wasn't really getting the gist of what 3.0 does.
crystal crag
Yes @crimson rampart you can setup as much as you want using animator system
visual sigil
@crimson rampart If by gesture you mean face expressions, yes
neon mortar
i need to look again to find out where to even start with animators
crimson rampart
is the animator system is similar to the common way or is it a new animator?
hasty hemlock
actually it can be any sort of animation not just facial expressions
visual sigil
It's still a work in progress but I'm working on an Unity Editor tool to make it easier to generate complex animators for gestures https://github.com/hai-vr/combo-gesture-expressions-av3
hasty hemlock
basically you take all of the animation stuff you do with the hand gestures and put it in its own menu instead
atomic blade
But on a more basic level you can use animation controllers for all forms of movement instead of using an override
upper remnant
@crimson rampart it's very different in that historically you used constant overrides to animate, not really using animator controllers unless you went out of your way to do so. now you are almost purely working within animators
it's a much better situation for actually animating things
crimson rampart
yes but do we still use blendshapes and the variables or is it something else
a new animator made for av3 rather than unity's default animator
cyan galleon
I'm in a world and my menu pops up but I can't choose anything. I'm using a vive. Can someone help?
hasty hemlock
yes it's still blendshapes and variables and stuff
grizzled solar
can someone ping tupper to make #avatar-help able to upload image for solve problems and errors? i don't wanna ping tupper cuz i'm scared 😩
crimson rampart
@woeful ruin
patent wagon
So how different is Avatars 3.0's inventory system compared to something like Xixe's inventory system?
grizzled solar
from what i've seen some videos, very different?
visual sigil
@patent wagon your inventory is going to be visible even by those who join the world later
no desyncs
sudden basin
does anyone get it that new beta users in steam cant access the av3 world in vrchat?
me and my friends opted in for the beta and we cant find the av3 world now...
@woeful ruin
muted gazelle
The world is private and the link is in #730973243904753705
atomic blade
If you use the launch from the vrchat website it works
crimson rampart
will we have avatar groups btw?
Like cna we favourite our own so we can access the ones we use a ton?
muted gazelle
That would be more with the upcoming UI update
upper remnant
@crimson rampart you use unity's default animator, most of the time
there is a menu where you set up controls that is part of the sdk, but most of the time you are dealing with default unity animator things
crimson rampart
ah oki
visual dagger
well, this was a nice thing to wake up to
harsh zealot
:)
smoky thorn
@tired roost this one
fleet hound
Sorry if it was explained elsewhere, but does Avatars 3 address the Quest vs. PC avatar issue at all or otherwise edits the required poly count?
Because the a3 stuff looks neat, but I know a friend with the Quest who struggles to play on-headset because of the lack of avatars.
hasty hemlock
it doesn't do anything to the required poly count just gives you more control over the animations
analog cloud
Can you tell me where the hand part is in the animation layer?
fleet hound
Ah, ok. So pretty much the same workflow for publishing on both platforms (but with the animation and the HUD customizations, of course)? Neato!
hasty hemlock
yep just if you're considering Quest avatars make sure all your props are texture Atlas together so that you're not having a million materials
soft crown
havent had a chance to play with this yet, will it let you adjust viewball in realtime or naw
sour inlet
@soft crown Ron talks about it here -> https://discordapp.com/channels/189511567539306508/730948141196509297/730965653820801105
soft crown
oh good to know theyre giving it a shot
grand latch
No Unity version update
wintry glade
Why would there be
grand latch
You wouldn't expect a development platform update with a major version release?
dusky canyon
this av3 thing has me nutting
boreal oriole
Updating Unity is a massive effort on its own
definitely not something that happens on each version release
molten ore
Av3 avatars wont work on live right?
patent junco
Cant check right now, but are are any toggles now synced for latejoiners? For example items from invetory systems or material changes?
ember edge
So with index u can toggle the gestures and ur gestures will stick like that but in avatar 3.0 the gesture goes back to default. I'm really hoping they make it so it stays that gesture u last had on
atomic blade
Things like facial expressions can be changed to be toggle states instead of gestures, but it will require a re-upload
charred lynx
Omg guys the elbow fix...its so good
No more forearms clipping through upper arms and going in weird directions theg actually act like ELBOWS now
ember edge
is fullbody improved at all in anyway?
charred lynx
Not sure! I just noticed arm tracking looks a lot cleaner
However a TON of avatars are messed up if the viewport is in the head
I'm having to fix some for friends who sre using beta rn ;;
meager prairie
@charred lynx hmmm why would head view point mess things up?
I will have to check arm tracking as it was pretty Meh in Fbt before.
crimson rampart
is the AvatarV3's SDK is a replacement to SDK2
meager prairie
@crimson rampart when they come live to main game yes not now
crimson rampart
i have both but there are duplicate components and the sdk builder menu is gone
soft crown
oh, so youre saying toggles DONT sync up with people who load you after you toggled it?
steady helm
You only import the one, acti
atomic blade
Whats this about an elbow fix
steady helm
Don't ad sdk2 or sdk3, just import avatar3
atomic blade
Its a separate tool
crimson rampart
thanks
meager prairie
@soft crown this is the case in the game now not sure if they will change it
soft crown
damn, that kills my hype for it a bit, hopefully they change that
that's my biggest issue with the hacky toggle emote toggles in sdk2
crimson rampart
is it possible to remove the sdks without redoing the project
meager prairie
Yea its annoying to toggle an item off then someone says they see it because they joined or if they were not looking at you when you did it
soft crown
the one way i have of getting around that in avatar 2.0 is to set it to a gesture and lock the gesture with index, but that really limits what you can do
meager prairie
@soft crown that is nice fix but sadly leaves you limited like you said.
soft crown
and for the toggle behavior youre describing how it works in 3.0 atm, not 2.0, rite
meager prairie
didnt try myself i will play with the 3.0 when its near release.
so cant know how its atm
charred lynx
@meager prairie oh so like, some avatars with viewports farther inside the head have clipping issues
soft crown
ohh, so youre just describing how it works in 2.0 i guess ill get a chance to test 3.0 once i manage to load all my crap into this new project
charred lynx
Its likely to be more "immersive" but if uou have a chatacyer with a snout or anythibg else than its visible all the time
meager prairie
@charred lynx aha i see
charred lynx
Any mesh in front of your viewport is visible so if the VP is slightly in the nesh then you're just screwed
atomic blade
I thought the SDK just shrunk the head bone to 0
meager prairie
@soft crown hopefully they change that.
grizzled solar
just using one of Yash's avatar requires so much work ;-;
crimson rampart
so how do I change VRChat's branch to the A3 beta
atomic blade
properties>betas on steam
meager prairie
So any idea when the A3 may become live a month or 2? perhaps less or more
visual dagger
probably depends on how testing goes
grizzled solar
@crystal crag i tried one of your 3.0 avatar 😊 it was fun to use, i hope i can make one very good like that someday
dim glade
I'm curious how will animator be used for one eyed central avatars i.e cyclops or mechas : Zakus
atomic blade
Personally I think it would be interesting to expand the lipsync to take blend shapes for more arbitrary things like changing based on how much movement is being made or how many people are in your proximity. As for eyes you can fix cyclops easily with constraints
thorn socket
is toggling stuff with av3 synced or does it still have all the old "desync if someone isn't looking at you" problems
near hill
It's synced if you're using the stage parameters for it
meager prairie
Will A3 allow us to control the eye bones or Vasimes via Eye trackers or a way to get it to work in the game ?
visual dagger
no
meager prairie
thats a bummer
hasty hemlock
that would require some different kind of updates to do that
atomic blade
From a development standpoint you could maybe have a vrc_eyetarget which upon activation forces the avatar to look towards it instead of people in the room. From there you could control it more closely or just use it to make characters look at their own props or something
visual dagger
also, from a development point of view, since eye movement is already a thing (and has been for a while) updates to avatars would have nothing to do with real eye tracking, that's more of a system side of trying to decide what you're looking at and move the eyes to line up
but that's most likely held back by lack of actual eye tracking in the majority of headsets and therefor no good standard in api
hasty hemlock
yeah they're probably not going to implement it till there's a standard API
visual dagger
or at the very least, a major presence of eye tracking
last i checked there's only really 1 vr headset that has it, and most people aren't buying it
on top of that, iirc the majority of vrchat players don't have vr at all anyway, so not a feature at the top of the todo list
hasty hemlock
yep as this Avatar 3.0 stuff also helps out desktop users quite a bit so it's a lot more important
visual dagger
yeah
hasty hemlock
it'll be definitely interesting to see the stuff people come up with and share around
untold leaf
In a nutshell what changes?
steady helm
Yeah, playing with the stuff in-game, having the new menu bound to the joystick click on Rift S is kinda jarring, since I'm used to that being my jump button.
Usually good for steering and jumping while wall-climbing
Not so good now when the jump is mapped to a separate button from the joystick.
visual dagger
I really like that the previously unused X/A buttons are jump though
steady helm
I suggest using them for the menu instead
hasty hemlock
having a reticle select wheel that lets you select a large number of gestures
meager prairie
I thought perhaps there could be a way to get it to work with using the HTC / Tobi SDK for unity eye gaze component.
The issue with eye tracking is not enough support means not enough development for it and this is an annoying issue.
steady helm
Have the previously unused a/x buttons be dedicated to the menu so jumping and steering can still be achieved with decent response time.
untold leaf
Does it let you toggle guestures like on index tho
steady helm
Rather than the other way around
untold leaf
Thats really what i want
steady helm
And yes it does, falls
hasty hemlock
yes and now you don't need to have a animation based inventory system just to have lots of props and now all of your fingers can stay fingers
untold leaf
Yeah but norway has me pinned by ordering through sweden :/
steady helm
Still might try pairing this with some of Lindesu's prefabs for adding "states" of sorts to props
Like changing firing modes on a gun
steady helm
^^^
untold leaf
Makes sense to be able to rebind buttons yes
sand wren
like please
neon finch
My hair turn white after see all things about av3
sand wren
even rec room uses those controls
steady helm
Ptt could be left joystick, because that's unused previously on Rift S iirc
sand wren
yes
its the push to talk button in rec room
and i think pavlov
and jump on both on right joystick
visual dagger
I agree that button remapping should be a thing, but also I think the joystick click is reasonable since you have to use the joystick to aim at whatever you're selecting anyway
sand wren
gesture toggle for index can be removed bc its now in menu
steady helm
You could click with the other joystick tho
sand wren
also when u turn off gesture toggle on anythig that isnt index
it gets rid of all the finger gestures
not just disable your custom ones
steady helm
Oh
sand wren
it disables all of them
steady helm
But yeah, I think the clicking is alright while in-menu, but not to activate it
sand wren
i need to do some more blend tree magic
if i wanted to i could make a radial menu to change every single outfit
but blend trees blend smoothly which is a bit of an issue
neon finch
I'm in panic after see all things about av3. insert panic emoji here
sand wren
yea like i said in the other channel
its extremely stressful to work with but when it works it works
steady helm
It's a paradigm shift
It'll take some getting used to
Perhaps if they make it so you can do "basic" and "advanced" avatars in the future... Where "basic" is the old v2 style, for beginners, and the "advanced" is this new stuff.
I mean, they technically have that already, but I mean after they finish refining the new system and implement it
hasty hemlock
or who knows maybe some of this will get automated with some Unity scripts
steady helm
Praps
Yeah that spam wasn't cool
Back on topic, hopefully the VRChat team will let us know once they've got the buttons flipped the right way around...
As I mentioned, it's jarring not only for those of us who like to climb vertical walls, but also like to jump around needlessly as we walk/run places. Makes that harder.
Insofar as steering and doing so at the same time, that is.
sand wren
i made some suggestions on the canny if u wanna look at them
thorn socket
can we get the default expression menu as an asset so we can add to the default emotes instead of having to set them all up and then add to them?
sand wren
can we also get empty animators that are already set up with everything we need and make it so that we can create new ones when we right click in the file explorer window
steady helm
Gotta say, beyond the minor detail I keep harping on about, the system looks great so far. At least, from an in-game perspective, that is. Now I need to take a look at the unity side of things, and see if I can wrap my head around this stuff enough to make proper use of it.
Fingers crossed
hoary monolith
Anyone have some idea on when AV3 will become live beta?
sand wren
maybe in 1 and a half months minimum
its functional but its in a bit of an early state to say the least as far as documentation and user friendliness goes
north canopy
so a quick question to people that already tried it out: is it stil simple to use normal gestures with it?
As actions menu are nice for some more interesting things, but nothing is as good as simple gesture when you just want to react to someone during talk.
crystal crag
you can still use gestures but you'll have to make an animator for them that uses the GestureLeft/Right parameters.
north canopy
oh, hi yash. And yay, sounds great, thanks
sand wren
not only but if you want facial expressions you have to do the same thing with separate animations on the FX layer
at least my avatar won't be desynced anymore and be in undies when i already made him wear pants lmao
north canopy
I only hope some people will not get lost in that new system, as its always more step to get it right and more stuff to understand to make even simple stuff 🤔
sand wren
lol i wish it was simpler, especially if it had a nice cute UI
doing everything manually stresses me out so hard i cant even work on my avatar for too long or i get headaches
hazy sand
Avatars 3.0 is so cool
prime sage
wanton oak
Very nice
fiery crow
Already got a two way touch button toggle that drives staged parameters ^^
1 gameobject!
fiery crow
It's easier to get what you want done if you already understand how to make animation override controllers and manipulate parameters. Some of the complexity does kind of end up adding a lot of extra steps to seemingly simple things.
candid forum
i know everyone is busy figuring out stuff but i was wondering if this was even possible with this new avatars 3.0, i was wondering if we'd be able to change the size of our avatar in game? I was thinking of that because it would be nice to not have to have 3 versions of the same avatar for different worlds i enter (alot of them have things scaled for other avatars)
verbal maple
Unfortunately they're still working on changing your viewpoint. Can't shrink/enlarge avatars for now.
Though apparently the viewpoint -can- be affected during animations I think? But it gets weird when it's for extended periods of time or something of the sort.
candid forum
darn that was what i was most looking forward to possibly seeing lol, it's alright i'll just keep uploading multiples for now thanks for replying
😃
verbal maple
Just repeating what I heard yesterday ^^
candid forum
ah nice to know i'm not the only one interested in that lol
craggy flax
so, does "Animator Set View" change your viewpoint only during animation? Is it possible to do something like a flash teleport skill in rapid succession?
bitter tusk
Oh oh oh, will you look at that, V3 is around ! congratz for the launch Team ;)
kindred steppe
how press afk
neon finch
END key
long scaffold
is anyone else having issues where the action menu activates whenever you move the joystick too far?
neon finch
no, sorry
crystal crag
@long scaffold if you used custom binding you might need to reset them
long scaffold
nope
no custom binding when I had the issue
on the Index
with the index controllers
I fixed the issue with a custom binding
but it's a hacky solution (removing the joystick click entirely and using the trackpad click instead and then taking the trackpad position away)
idk why it's being so weird
also for some reason on my 1070 card the mirror in the avatars 3 showroom tanked the FPS to 4 or so
candid forum
There is a known issue with post processing in worlds, that world may have been one of them, have you tried it with other simpler ones?
And have you tried restarting VR software and VRChat entirely?
modest sun
FYI check prefabs database for some new editor inventory generators : https://github.com/hai-vr/combo-gesture-expressions-av3
neon finch
so we finally got separated left and right hands ?
scenic mural
have anyone tried it on wmr?
I cant controll the action menu.
deft sundial
@scenic mural disable advanced control in the vrc settings
But that doesnt allow you to use trigger / fist
It was pretty horrible on wmr
scenic mural
ah yeah now it works, yeah no fist
deft sundial
Also gestures are wrong
scenic mural
also for me it rotated all my gestures
deft sundial
Yes
scenic mural
yeah
deft sundial
Open hand is on point for example
deft sundial
Also trigger isnt analog anymore
scenic mural
yup
deft sundial
It goes full fist even with a small press
brittle garnet
how do i try the beta. i read what todo tho i cant opt into any beta's the drop down menu doesnt show
scenic mural
It should be in Steam library right click vrchat > properties > betas > and dropdown "avatars3-beta-"
brittle garnet
i click to open the dropdown menu to select it but the dropdown doesnt appear so i cant select Anything
recently i did have to reinstall steam cas my steamvr broke so maybe other functions are broken now i guess
scenic mural
if you use the arrow keys? after clicking the drop down, i had that bug too
cursive pumice
I have experienced that problem before. You have to close vrchat first. And open the properties menu again
brittle garnet
dont click any arror keys. just clicking
fixed it. think my steam broke
i selected it now
restarted
brittle garnet
yah like my friendslist is also broken, cant select anyone or all of it restarts Lol
thx for help anyway. gonna try it now
kindred steppe
how add face expressions
molten ore
@kindred steppe #avatar-help
verbal maple
I am seething in primal rage equal to that of man when they first discovered they could light a fire with stones, but didn't know the exact way to, so they just banged the stones in rage. That is me at the moment. Slowly improving by banging stones together.
visual dagger
meanwhile everyone else is running around with wheels already
verbal maple
Damn Kronk and his fancy schmancy wheels...
wintry glade
They had months of testing before open beta, anyone with extensive stuff rn was in that testing
visual dagger
or they've been playing with it for the last ~15 hours
if i was more familiar with the unity animation system i'd be much further along 😛
shy rose
Yeah, we really need a bunch of tutorials. Right now, there's a lot of holes in the documentation and the only people that know about them and think nothing of it are those that have been using it while it was being made.
versed hill
stupid idea #556: "avatar-omnitrix" step 1 create humanoid rig. step 2: have several models/rigs in that avatar. step 3: use "limit rotation" constraint to copy rotations/ik tracking from humanoid rig to all the others. step 4: use the new menu to toggle between "avatars". step 5: be ben 10 =p
wintry glade
I'm just trying to fix the things the devs broke, got no time for the new stuff
visual dagger
I've spent half the night learning the new stuff, and the other half fixing my model since it wasn't really ready to use in the first place
the 115K polys is scary though
faint harbor
Just tried the avatars 3.0 beta, it's pretty cool!
Just as a heads-up tho, it broke my WMR bindigs and the inputs weren't really labeled properly so rebinding was a bit of a struggle.
neon finch
My tutorial video on AV3 is uploading rn, don't expect the best thing ever, i suck at tutorials, but it should explain some things
versed hill
any tutorial is better than no tutorial =p
visual dagger
I was debating making a video, even the basic first few steps are missing from the docs so it was really frustrating to figure out
faint birch
any chance those new avatars are gonna interact between themselves ?
versed hill
HUZZA!!!
woven goblet
Could just be Discord’s thumbnail service not functioning properly atm
royal shadow
embeds are disabled.
versed hill
moon you fool, you have given me the last thing i needed to make a ben10 style avatar. I can be multiple avatars at once now, mwahahaha!
neon finch
oof you cant go onto public worlds if you have avatar 3.0
wintry glade
You can do multiple avatars in one avatar in 2.0, only caveat is they need to be the same height since you couldn't move the viewpoint
Now you can move it so that limitation is out for good which is great
neon finch
yes i need a ben 10 avatar that works with this it would be amazing
the menu could be like the watch
visual dagger
hmm, it seems sub menus with toggles is the right way to setup switching clothes, but all the extra parameter and expression menus seems excessive
upper remnant
you can do a lot within a single control, you dont necessarily need to make deeply nested menus
for example, with the radial control type and a float, you can switch between many, many states
visual dagger
yeah, I'm over complicating it more to learn the system than anything else
basically multiple full outfits, 3-4 different tops, bottoms, etc,
my first thought was just using 2 axis puppets, since those are easy to setup, but then i realized they don't toggle the right way so it wouldn't work right
gilded mason
so this works with WMR controllers? i heard something about the default bindings being busted for WMR, is there a way to fix that?
this worries me a lot, seeing as i use WMR and still can't do stuff like driving karts, even with Advanced Vive Controls on and stuff like that
upper remnant
@visual dagger you can use the 2 axis puppet for a toggle, you just need to handle it in the animator after the float changes correctly
after the control type changes the parameter, you are responsible for how the animator handles it, and there isn't anything preventing you from making a toggle in the animator
oak mason
driving karts has always required rebinding the joysticks with WMR. idk quite how the vive/wmr controls are laid out, but you should be able to setup something where clicking in the touchpad does the menu instead of the stick.
I'll connect the explorer tonight and see about making a binding
gilded mason
hm? how so...
i dont understand, when i did it with a binding that made me able to move using the sticks, the kart would not move
with the binding off and defaults used, the kart wouldn't move
also clicking in the stick brings up SteamVR for me
oak mason
karts worked on the default binding using the sticks for me
gilded mason
theres a menu button that gives me the Quick Menu
oak mason
you can turn that off
gilded mason
?
oak mason
leave it just on the left stick
gilded mason
how
oak mason
and use the right stick for vrchat
steamvr settings > controllers > show advanced settings > show old binding ui > (if neded show more applications) > vr dashboard
gilded mason
hm
i wonder if that will fix karts for me too by tinkering with that, somehow...
oak mason
when I was transitioning from WMR to Oculus, I mapped both sticks to the steamvr dashboard actually
visual dagger
@upper remnant I thought of that, but in the case of clothes switching I was worried about it trying to blend 2 different options and looking weird during the change instead of a clean toggle button to select something specific
upper remnant
you can transition with the float value so that the condition is that you are using the control in an exclusive direction
like, > .9 on X axis, and maybe check values on other axis so you enter exclusive states that don't overlap or blend
dapper hearth
Where is everyone going to hangout and test with their new beta stuff?
wintry glade
There's a beta world like any beta posted in #avatar-development-links
abstract trench
@neon finch Video was amazing ^-^ Managed to make a color change button, that goes from red back to blue 😋
dapper hearth
@wintry glade I know, but I don't see anyone wearing anything except the world avatars there
wintry glade
Beats me thats the best place besides planning it with your friends
Most of this stuff is going to be tested locally imo
abstract trench
^ testing locally is so nice
wintry glade
I havent tried it yet, how much faster is it? Uploading an avatar takes about 5 seconds
abstract trench
I felt it went way faster
You should just try it with an already made one, so you can see, you get a new tab called other under your uploaded too
wintry glade
Yeah I have to do testing to see how the devs broke some of my stuff, when I test it with uploading it via sdk 3.0 Ill try it out
small cloud
I think we're all ignoring the actual greatest feature to avatar 3.0
being able to move the viewpoint instead of having to guess at numbers
lolol
visual dagger
lol
wintry glade
The more important thing is being able to move the viewpoint in game
small cloud
Is the Builder tab in the sdk supposed to be empty...?
visual dagger
did you add an avatar descriptor to the avatar?
small cloud
yes
weird. removing and re-adding it fixed it.
But it still won't let me publish... clicking either test or publish doesn't do anything. 😦
weak elm
I have a simple question about the new system, so say you put your mood in an angry state, when new players join the world, will they see the angry emotions or will they see the basic state of the avatar?
Like atm, if you toggle a prop through an emote, that pop can't be seen by new players unless you toggle it again.
deft lodge
It was already answered before but yeah, as long as you do that through AV3 itself with a proper system and not use the same prop system from SDK2 it should buffer for anyone who joins later from what i know
sand wren
@weak elm it syncs now, but if you reload the world or change worlds it doesnt save which is something i suggested on the canny
grim mirage
I cannot be on the 3.0 branch and see people on the stable branch. Right?
neon finch
Has anyone talked about allowing old avatars to join in on the 3.0 update? Especially when people don’t have the files for said avatars....
I just think that if we are going to have an update that includes avatars especially for what the game is about people should have their creations no matter how old to be able to be in the upcoming update.
past rover
What do you mean exactly? You still can use any avatar in the av3 branch
neon finch
I get it if people aren’t going to update their models because I know most worlds will end up not having this feature because most avatar worlds are old as heck and I don’t see the avatar 3.0 option shown in those types of worlds unless again someone reuploads the avatars
I mean like when you can’t update to this 3.0 option on any avatars you’ve uploaded in the past
Like 2019-2018 era
Isn’t this feature only on avatars that have been newly uploaded with the 3.0 feature? Or are all avatars going or have these options?
visual dagger
Most of the features are specifically for 3.0 avatars, but I haven't seen anything saying you can't use old ones
past rover
So you've tried overwriting a SDK2 avatar ID with a SDK3 avatar upload then and it didn't work?
neon finch
No I haven’t tried it yet, I’m just wondering if the system won’t work at all with the old avatars I’ve uploaded in the past
Or will it?
past rover
Like I said before, it does work
visual dagger
if you want to upload a new avatar, it will have to be made with the new sdk (when it's mainstream)
but that doesn't mean that already uploaded avatars will stop working
neon finch
Oh, so then no matter what all avatars will have this- alright cool....hopefully
past rover
The new action menu isn't avatar dependant
visual dagger
they will not have new features unless they're updated
past rover
It's part of the client
neon finch
Ok so never mind
main skiff
The action menu is on all avatars. But you need avatars 3.0 to personalize it.
neon finch
They won’t have it, got it
main skiff
It goes to a default action menu where the expressions are just the old emotes otherwise.
charred gull
after opting into avatars 3.0 how do you get back to where you can join friends that havent opted in yet?
neon finch
Just turn the beta off in the same setting and let the game update
charred gull
oh ok
was like i dont want to leave the beta permanently just be able to join friends again
harsh crow
Avatars 2.0 and 3.0 will exist at the same time. You can upload a 2.0 avatar and a 3.0 avatar. SDK2 (as of right now) is not going away, and isn't being replaced by SDK3. You will still be able to upload avatars and worlds made with SDK2. The new action menu is available to all avatars, but customization of that menu and the animation layers it controls are limited to avatars built with SDK3 and Avatars 3.0
So old avatars built before Avatars 3.0 will still function as normal, and have access to the new menu, but you can not customize that menu in the same way an Avatars 3.0 avatar can.
Hopefully that clears everything up
brittle garnet
rip using playspace mover with the new control binding XD
i used the blank ones for it oof
but its cool.
neon finch
what is av3?
royal shadow
@brittle garnet Set up a binding that requires double click for the vrchat menu.
can still playspace move comfortably but also open the menu when needed
brittle garnet
i would use the menu buttons for resetting the playspace. guess i can use the analog sticks as double press to move
neon finch
oh s??? basically a major avatar expansion
is it out in the actual game as alpha like udon or what
hasty hemlock
it's currently a beta branch
neon finch
oh
my avatar is just an error
like its the placeholder avater but yellow and with an error word on the front
what do i do to fix
royal shadow
chrome mica
So with this av3 did they fix the bug when you add an avatar that doesn't have hands the crouch still works or do you still gotta add finger bones to crouch with the avatar?
neon finch
why is that a bug
chrome mica
Not sure, but is annoying that you gotta add random finger bones to the hand to crouch. (Would just make people add finger models to their hand model.
neon finch
you phrased it wrong
chrome mica
Oh?
neon finch
not "when you add an avatar that doesn't have hands the crouch still works" but "when you add an avatar that doesn't have hands the crouch DOESNT work"
kindred ice
Yo! I just now got to know avatar 3.0,is this gonna be implemeted in desktop in some way too?
neon finch
Yeah, the action menu is opened with the R key
kindred ice
Yeah i dont have my main comouter with me as i am in vacation, but i could try instllingn it on my other pc
Computer*
surreal rivet
So can peaple playing on Oculus join the beta I’m guessing not but if so I dunno how
kindred steppe
you on quest or pc @surreal rivet
sand wren
you can only join the beta on steam afaik
so unless you stream/link on quest or use the steam version i dont believe you can switch
maybe vrchat devs might release a quest compatible version on the store or as a downloadable but idk if they will
surreal rivet
@kindred steppe pc
crimson crescent
There a certain reason why gestures can't stay animating when locked now? I find it silly to get rid of such a great feature, honestly. I used it all the time.
kindred steppe
think that use index controller @crimson crescent
chrome mica
Gonna be fun learning 3.0.
Also seems like going from lager avatars to smaller ones fixed the camera breaking in 3.0
crimson crescent
@kindred steppe I am using Index controller.
real patrol
time to mess around with this and see how far i can get without reading documentation *laugh track*
sand wren
probably to re uploading an sdk2 avatar only
real patrol
no god can stop me
errant rain
Please please please, I don't know if anyone will read, but please don't change the regular oculus CV1 controls. The grip and the trigger behavior has been changed, and everyone with cv1 reacted very negatively to this. Please don't change it, it's perfect how it is.
real patrol
one god can stop me
void robin
I was just looking at it losing my mind because of how much there even was
But it'll most definitely pay off in the end when I start actually making really cool functions
woven goblet
Only beta
maiden wagon
The new system, with the index, is very tedious to use, I much prefer the old gesture system, where with a button I could block the gestures, quickly and easily. They should leave that option.
bleak blaze
i had a question but its not like i need help or anything was just wondering i saw the afk toggle thingy what exactly does that do?
half imp
@crimson crescent working on a fix so you can map the gesture toggle.
We got the beta out so we could catch bugs and UX issues and so on. Then iterate on updates.
@maiden wagon ^^
whole musk
rip using index on 3.0
half imp
Why rip?
whole musk
cant walk
half imp
ah you mean when AM is open? Yes you can
whole musk
cause they said u have to click to open the menu, but the minute I try walking it wont let me
half imp
We might make one handed open be one-handed locomotion
sand wren
i mentioned on the canny swapping menu and jump/ptt
half imp
But currently what I do is just push forward on one stick and turn my body
sand wren
and i also put the canny fbt problems from the update
avatar follows fbt setup to a T, except legs a bit more bent
half imp
@sand wren remapping of some stuff will happen soon. we really need a bigger remapping feature inside of VRChat
sand wren
yea but the swap should be made for now bc the current controls in beta are uncomfortable in VR
sand wren
also i am working on an av3.0 example avatar with all controllers in demo
yes but thats not the issue
half imp
I'll read the canny
sand wren
all other games i play have ptt and jump on joysticks
its uncomfortable for movement too
my thumb is on the joystick when i rotate myself
if have to move my thumb just to jump
half imp
You can remap how you wish on steam or should be able to. As far as rift oculus doesn't have a remap so we'll need to build one eventually
sand wren
can have top buttons on oculus controllers for game menu
half imp
I use rift most of the time
whole musk
on the vive there are unused buttons, maybe use those
half imp
Thanks @sand wren
whole musk
nbot vive
half imp
@whole musk there are not unused buttons
half imp
There are not free buttons on index. in a build coming gesture lock will be on touchpad. then people can remap how they want. every button will have a function.
nimble portal
swap the radial menus with the mute and voice should be a viable option
(on oculus)
half imp
I have to run. Thanks for the chat. Canny stuff! we do read and are compiling tasks
@nimble portal for now hold down menu button to open or close action menu if you don't want to use the click on stick
half imp
correct
sand wren
gesture lock doesnt need to be bound to anything
sand wren
just keep it in the radial menu
half imp
@sand wren yes it does in order for remap to work
@sand wren no, because we had a LOT of feedback that people want to map it
half imp
I really gotta go. I'll be back another time. We check this discord and the canny. thanks for the feedback
sand wren
yw
neon finch
wait is your name based off the wonder weapon from cod waw
sand wren
not really
i only remembered that afterward
i thought wonder wolf was lame
but i liked the way it sounded
and this is unique so i can use it anywhere and its easy for people to find me
neon finch
Just came back from trying the test beta hub world. Looks promising. Kept accidentally opening the menu and selecting things by accident with the stick, but that's probably down to muscle memory
maiden wagon
by the way, for all the rest it seems to me a very powerful system. Although a system to save presets would be very good, tomorrow I will make a canny about this
fiery crow
You can make presets with the animation layers and parameters.
neon finch
guys the new menu (action menu) works but i cant choose anything in it ( im using HTC vive wand controller )
You need to hover over the selection and then pull your trigger
shy rose
Now I got to figure out the easiest way to activate my expressions after being used to gestures to activate shapekeys all this time.
neon finch
If possible I still think I'll use gestures for some expressions that I've been used to for so long. They've worked into my mannerisms. But for other things and puppeteering I'm really excited to get I to using this system
molten goblet
question on av3, when you put an avatar in the beta for av3 will the avatar be available for anyone to use when av3 is official?
tender root
question on av3, is there a limit on how long animations can be like there is on emotes in av2?
mint wraith
fact on av3, it's awesome and it's hype
devout dragon
I'm on a Samsung Odyssey (WMR), and the touchpad doesn't work while in the new av3 menu when using the Advanced Vive Controls, but when that's turned off it works
@neon finch that might be your issue too
neon finch
Maybe make sure you're not using any community bindings for enabling the wmr sticks
lime plume
is the pizza emoji gone? :c
viral lion
lime plume
i might be blind but it looks like they're separated into seasons and the pizza is gone in the new menu
upper remnant
@tender root there is no limit with length
sand wren
a lot of things are gone
upper remnant
A lot of the emojis are missing atm and will be added in later
lime plume
i hope so, there is a void in my heart that must be filled by the pizza emoji :P
sand wren
idk what to do about body tracking, no word from devs as to how to fix or why its happening
upper remnant
In the mean time you can make your own pizza emojis with particles
sand wren
i wish u could make menu pages
like Add Page
and in each page u add controls
and the topleft and topright is the next page buttons
upper remnant
You mean the submenu?
quartz pumice
The av3 menu is supposed to freeze your character from moving right?
After I open the av3 menu with 'R', I pressed Esc to open reg menu and could move, then I close it, and I can move with the av3 menu open lol. A bug?
lime plume
im super new to unity and esp all the stuff for avs 3, so iunno if im capable lmao
upper remnant
Yeah you can make your own emoji pages
sand wren
it freezes the joystick that its opened on
upper remnant
Use the submenu
sand wren
because it has to use the joystick for controlling the menu
so if u use the right menu u cant rotate
and left menu u cant move
upper remnant
@lime plume it's a bit of a learning curve, but once you get over the way control types work, and the parameter alias/syncing, it's just unity animators left, and you can definitely learn how to use those for more things than 2.0 allowed, in short order
sand wren
yea its a breeze to use now
it gave me headaches on the first day
but now ive figured everything out
except fullbody
its making me so mad
upper remnant
Biggest hurdle I think is mentally leaving the way overrides worked behind you
sand wren
and memorizing which layers do which function
lime plume
good thing i have no clue how those work either then :P
upper remnant
What is wrong with fbt?
sand wren
its fucked on avatars with a viewpoint that isnt standard
upper remnant
Plenty of material on unity animators and state machines. You can do it
sand wren
like my avatar has a viewpoint further ahead of his head
because its a furry
so when i calibrate my spine bends backward bc of this dumb viewpoint update
upper remnant
Try to record it
sand wren
i don't need to
i cant send images in this channel
I'll send in #avatar-help but the problem should be obvious
tender root
Thanks for the awnser lin
dusky canyon
I'm away from home so I haven't been able to experiment with all this new amazing stuff. but i've gotta know.. If you make a change to your avatar using the av3 UI does it stay that way even if you load out of the avatar / load into a new world?
for example, I make it so I can adjust my shirt color or something, if i were to load out and back into that avatar would it keep those changes? please ping me if i receive an answer!
sand wren
no @dusky canyon but i already suggested on the vrchat canny, please upvote my feedback if you want it to be a thing
the suggestion is currently only to save when you leave (maybe) or change worlds
dusky canyon
Awesome. thank you! another question that I have though.
Say you have a toggleable gesture like a change of a shirt, and someone joins the world. do they see the most recent instance of your avatar?
dusky canyon
Upvoted :)
sand wren
so even if you have something that changes your avatars color
dusky canyon
Amazing.
sand wren
as long as its one of the Stage1-14 parameters (you will read about them in docs)
it will sync across the network
and everyone will see that color assuming your animators are set up properly
dusky canyon
man, i'm so excited to work on stuff involving av3. I can barely contain myself.
sand wren
also keep in mind that you can only join other avatar 3.0 beta users
dusky canyon
Yeah, figured
sand wren
so unless you ask your friends to join the beta you will have a hard time finding anywhere to go
dusky canyon
i'm more than happy with that in the meantime.
sand wren
so for now its just for testing purposes and to play with friends
marsh haven
@sand wren Do you actually have to do something specific to make everything sync for late comers?
sand wren
no
like i mentioned before
if you use the parameters outlined in docs
most importantly Stage1-14 (can be renamed)
they will automatically always sync across the network
marsh haven
I see
sand wren
just make sure that your animators work properly
bc the animators don't sync
for example if a late joiner joins in the middle of ur AFK animation
the animations will be out of sync
but it will still work properly provided u handle the conditions for the AFK parameter properly
marsh haven
Thanks for clarifying 😄
sturdy smelt
For the eye tracking, we get rotation, but can we do position too or is that not a thing right now
sand wren
well heres a trick
sturdy smelt
Could probably just move the bone far away
sturdy smelt
Yea lmao
sand wren
and rotation very smoll
sturdy smelt
Gotta make do for now, thanks
sand wren
yw
u can also use projection shaders
lets u project a shape onto a surface
or draw a shape based on somethings location
sturdy smelt
Ohhh, that sounds cool
sand wren
unfortunately they don't seem to expose any parameters for their eye tracking
so u cant just make an animator that takes them and uses blend tree to move eyes
unfortunately
sturdy smelt
Maybe if there's enough demand for it
sturdy smelt
For now there's already more than enough to play with for me
sand wren
whats missing is variable state parameters
like i cant set it to a specific value based on something else
or on another parameter
good example is for props that you can drop on the ground
could probably store their position in parameters
but not atm
patent wagon
After thinking about it, if Avatar 3.0 will allow it, it could be useful for an avatar I wanted to do where you can change the color of his shirt in realtime. I remembered seeing a user back in 2018 that had a color wheel that allowed that on their avatar, but I hope AV3 can allow it.
verbal maple
That's actually a fairly simple thing to do, a few people did it yesterday as a start with blend trees
sand wren
@verbal maple @patent wagon yes check the yellow nanachi avatar in the 3.0 hub
thats a good example
verbal maple
I made a Ybot that can change colors as well
sand wren
one thing i had set up was 2 radial menus
first menu changed the hue around the rainbow
second changed the lightness
u couldnt make dark greys though
if i made a diff custom shader u could
but doesnt work that great when the parameters don't save
which is something i suggested in the canny
ivory linden
Hmm, left and right blink blendshapes need to be merged?
sand wren
yes
it takes like 6 clicks in blender apart from re exporting
for each blink shapekey
click it and set it to 1 in blender
click the plus sign and new shape key from mix
then click the x near the bottom that resets all the values to 0
not the one that deletes everything
u can do this for any other shape keys u want to merge
ivory linden
This will be a problem for Booth models, made in non-Blender 3D modelling programs, which can explode on import
sand wren
yea u will need to ask them to add support or re-export them yourself
also you can upvote my suggestion on some SDK2 compatibilities on the canny
i talked about animation overrides but it also suggests some other compatiblity features like multiple blinking blend shapes
ivory linden
I think an Editor script that would make a version of the model with merged blink shapekeys would go pretty well too, for lazy people like me
sand wren
i don't think it would be able to do that
but it could easily just have 2 slots for each thing instead of 1 lol
mint cypress
i am LOVING the new menu system, gets around the issue of me accidently firing my gun (i'm a Vive wand user), makes me feel i should just learn the avatar 3.0 stuff, and not bother learning avatar 2.0, excellent work devs~
gilded mason
i havent even started yet and this sounds so much simpler and fun~
plain river
I love the new interface, but it needs some tweaks. Perhaps this is something you could change with SteamVR bindings, I'm not sure. But anyway... The ability to have these two control discs on your hands to puppeteer facial expessions and ears and tails and such is fantastic except for how you lose the ability to move and turn with the sticks when you have them out, and exiting from them requires a long menu button press, or a stick click, and clicking the stick on the index kinda sucks cause it's too stiff. So I wouldn't want to have to do that all the time.
The point is... I think it might be really good to have a mode where you pull the trigger to activate these control pads and simply release to dismiss them. I use the Shiba avatars a lot, and using finger gestures to do stuff is super convenient. But pushing a button to open a menu to puppeteer the face, and then having to press a button again to close it when you want to move around again, is not. If however it could be tied to having to hold down a button, and the top trigger on the Index is the only thing that would really work for this, to momentarily enable the puppeteering, then you could instantly start puppeting and instantly stop and start running around.
Of course, if you repurpose the triggers like this, you might wonder, how then do you select items in the menu? Well, you could use the stick flick method with this setup on those menu items that allow it. You'd just be holding the trigger in while you're moving the stick. And with the face gestures, you just have it so it stays in the last one you had the stick pointing toward when you released the trigger.
chrome mica
I forgot, when adding a test avatar. Are people able to see it or they see the avatar you had before you changed?
nvm found out.
maiden wagon
You can make presets with the animation layers and parameters.
@fiery crow In case I was referring to a public avatar, with options, because locally you can save presets, so that you can have your personalization in a public avatar, without the author having to make the presets, it would only be to save the animator values locally.
dapper hearth
There's no state for whether a seat is or is not occupied, is there?
real mist
how all the new animator/animaions and props added, affect the avatar ranking? i mean all its real nice but if youre always very poor most of the user will have you blocked in this days cause performance.
open fog
Yes, it will still be added to the perf ranking
But it's going to be slightly more optimized because you'll need less animators
You could still optimize it by adding all the props to your model in Blender, join the meshes, create a texture atlas and combine all materials
Then just setup blendshapes to control objects appearing and disappearing
burnt flax
i am learning how 3.0 build work. i seen some cool thing but it look like upload dont support yet but may come later
open fog
You need to be in the beta build of the game
Read #avatar-development-links on how to get it
burnt flax
already know
open fog
burnt flax
i was play with beta build other day. show my friend and he think it cool
hate my w on keyboard
i can see lot people be rebuilding their avatar so they can use new tool when avatar 3.0 come out 🙂
neon finch
yooo
sharp scroll
I shouldn't be working on this when i'm durnk ><. Bud damn dis is great. Cant use the up and down lookk in the eye lid section cuz my avatar had separate for left and right. Apart form that. Even the basics are nice. Cant wait to work on shader thats conected to the vishmes.
lost niche
Oh yeah, I also have separate shapes for both blinks
I'll just have to blend those together later
real tusk
do we need v 3 yet?
lost niche
What do you mean?
real tusk
is the other versions still usable do you think
digital garnet
@real tusk from docs:
Avatars 3.0 is currently in what we call a "Feature Beta", which means that this isn't tied to any particular upcoming release.
Both can exist side-by-side in VRChat at the same time, but AV3 avatars will be far more powerful.
real tusk
ok awesome
low brook
Is there a way of introducing different movement mechanics in to an avatar? I've seen a few avatars that can fly or jump boost but idk how flexible AV3 is to bringin different movement styles and animations into VRchat
deft lodge
it as flexible as unity's animator system allows you to be pretty much
so basically as long as you can do something with animations + animator in Unity - you should be able to achieve this in VRChat
and i'm not too sure on that, but isn't fly and jump boost is the same thing as before with colliders but just working through animators?
soft crown
oo, that velocity component looks neat. does it just use the avatar's velocity or can it use the velocity of a bone/object? pow bam punches and kicks for example
deft lodge
I believe it's only for the avatar's velocity as far as i know
soft crown
alas, but im sure that'd require some expensive physics shit or w/e, way over my head
tender spear
so, whatever happened to the spiral emote thing?
fiery crow
i guess someone doesn't read lol
candid forum
errant rain
Just a FYI, friend has a WMR Lenovo explorer and they can't move. They are stuck in the afk pose but it is registering their button presses for menu and tracking. Works fine in desktop, regular non beta version works fine.
late tartan
@errant rain have they tried disabling afk in the action menu?
late tartan
Np 😁
storm verge
@woeful ruin can you only have more than one stage parameters script for the expressions menu or are you limited to the one with 16 stages? me and a friend tried using two and it wouldnt work on the second stage parameters script but as soon as we put it in to the first one for our sub menus then it worked, is this intentional or not?
we were playing around with sub menus
errant rain
Okay, now it seems the new radial menu will not respond to the Lenovo thumbsticks, regardless of any settings, world, restarts, ect. It doesn't seem to recognize any input from the controllers once opened (either one). Weird.
late tartan
Well hey, finding issues like this is what the beta is for 😅
Anyone else here having the same problems? Would love to know if it's a wmr issue or just something weird with their setup
lost niche
wouldn't it make sense if the menus used the WMR touchpad?
I was doing desktop testing, so I haven't checked if it works with my setup
woeful ruin
@storm verge No, an avatar can only have one stage parameter definition object
storm verge
@woeful ruin will there be more stages other than 16 slots on the final release? or is that as much we are gonna get, especially if your using more than one submenu and add a few different parameters for different objects?
silver adder
FYI, there is currently a bug in the current build that will cause visiting worlds with PostProcessing to lag you pretty badly. We'll get that fixed soon, but for now.. uh... don't join those worlds!
Huh, i don't lag when joining worlds with post-processing enabled. Is that a VR bug? I play in desktop mode.
woeful ruin
Its some specific sub-component of postprocessing
not all worlds use it. Maybe eye adaptation, not sure. we'll fix it before release
16 is all you'll get. Keep in mind you're dealing with a state machine, so you can use combinatorial logic to use every state... so 16 states, let's say you use 4 of them for your state machine.. each can have 256 distinct values, so... 256^4=4,294,967,296 distinct states 😛
@storm verge see above
real patrol
Are you not able to use a second stage parameter for a submenu consisting of four-axis puppets or something?
woeful ruin
If you want to set a second stage parameter for when you enter a submenu for whatever reason, detect the transition of the first stage param and use a parameter driver state behavior to set the second stage param.
bright robin
is it me or is jumping removed from open beta avatar 3.0? since the jump button was replaced forr the jester feature
im in vr
lost niche
what are you using that had a jump button?
I have WMR and jump is just up on the joystick or touchpad
lost niche
Oh, I guess you'll have to remap jump to something else
bright robin
uhg
lost niche
Yeah, I just looked at the pinned messages in the help channel
You could map your jump to click, and your gesture menu to another button I would assume? I haven't looked into it
bright robin
ooo that be good
real patrol
I have my jump button bound to the right menu button on my controller, unfortunately means I can't use menus in my right hand, but I can still navigate as needed.
cold jacinth
would be nice to have one stick for the menu, one for jumping
since most people always use the same hand for the menu
storm verge
@woeful ruin thank you for your help!
plain river
A friend of mine tried the beta on the Index, and said he could not use the sticks to move, that if he pushed the stick all the way in any direction the circle pops up. I have an Index myself and did not have this problem. Has anyone else experienced this, or know what setting he might have enabled to cause this?
lost niche
Unless he uses different bindings that didn't jive well, I'm not sure
woven goblet
@woeful ruin mirror can't be toggled off in the beta world 😛
neon finch
Since I don't know where to ask this I'll ask here. I'm guessing the whole 3.0 avatars won't be a quest thing for a while or whatever but I saw a video in #avatar-showcase with a cool item menu and if we can't have the 3.0 avatars can we get that because I'd like a cool menu to use and not just my triggers
lofty steppe
I like how since this update yesterday, VRC has become completely UNPLAYABLE. It takes forever for avatars(including my own), worlds, and everything else to load. It's also now incredibly laggy.
Is there anyway to reset this update for myself so I can play again or am I just out of luck til they fix this issue?
sour dove
@lofty steppe turn off the beta?
lofty steppe
That's a thing? May you tell me how I can turn it off?
Cause It took me 15 minutes to load a 55MB world...and 34 minutes to load one avatar. This was never an issue before yesterday.
sour dove
Go to the settings on Steam for the program
deft lodge
There was no update for you if you were on the Live client, therefore nothing changed at all in the Live client
sour dove
Then betas
lofty steppe
Thank you.
Oh.
I am opted out already.
I guess I'm just fugged.
Thanks anyway.
deft lodge
This update is beta, nothing was changed in Live client, issue might be somewhere else
sour dove
Try reinstalling
lofty steppe
I have.
sour dove
Strange
Well there was no update to the public channel yesterday
I'd check for any software changes in general
neon finch
hi 😮
fallow sequoia
@neon finch AV3 features will be fully supported on Quest
faint gust
so i noticed a few things with the index on the beta
gestures straight up don't work at all and anytime i try to move it pulls out an action menu
nvm, installed a firmware update and it fixed itself
patent wagon
Another interesting idea I had that I wonder if it's possible with avatar 3.0 is the ability to have a zoom-in camera that you can use to look at things like you can in Half-Life 2?
deft lodge
@patent wagon
Check out #avatar-showcase the last video posted by wunder wulfe
foggy tusk
anyone knows where I can find the water-bending avatar? sorry if it's the wrong channel to ask
dense cloak
it would be cool if MY favorite avatars stops disappearing
rich snow
Are mirrors just not working for v3 avatars, or have I done something wrong? 😛
dense cloak
maybe it's because of the avatar??
cause i've experienced it once
void robin
eye tracking always seemed to break it for me, so I always had to delete the blueprint id
rich snow
the same model works fine in the v2 SDK
but I do have the blink portion of eye tracking enabled, perhaps that's it.
@void robin yep, that was it
disabling the eye tracking stuff makes it visible
Actually, if you fully define all the features, it makes it visible as well @void robin
yeah, it gets really upset if you don't define eye bones xD
void robin
right
ivory linden
Postprocessing causing crippling slowdown's a known issue, but what about crashing? 👀
modest sun
Is there any documentation on what the Sitting, IKPose and TPose layers do?
deft lodge
well, sitting layer is just used for chairs isn't it?
Seems to contain animations for sitting, controls tracking changes and changes view point
IK pose possibly could be used for when you are calibrating full body?
modest sun
yeah I'm kind of intuiting that's what they do, but it's weird they aren't even mentioned in the documentation
for example the default sitting controller has a WaitForSit state but it forces all Ik points to animation. is that for a reason?
deft lodge
That waiting i think happens right as you click on the chair and it teleports you to it, probably done to make sure that ik is not going to look weird trying to snap everything to that position from far away or something?
also as far as i remember there is a bit of time where animation smooth's out itself as soon as you appear on the chair which might be another reason for waiting before settings the viewpoint?
and as for not being mentioned maybe they are still doing changes or working on things regarding those layers so the documentation is probably not really ready yet? not sure
kindred ice
guys i just discovered that on AV3 to activate afk on desktop you press the [END] key
deft lodge
yeaah, it says that in documentation and was mentioned in the last community update as well
kindred ice
yeah i thought it was only for vr, thats nice\
It would be cool to make the avatar menu close on ESC and be able to move the view while pressing the middle mouse button, instead of closing the menu
chrome mica
Is there a limit to how many expressions we can have or limit to our characters changing? Like would it be possible to make a character creator with this new av3 concept? (Meaning different heads/neck/torso/legs/arms. That's the concept I'm trying to figure out if there is a limit to how much change you can do with the av3
deft lodge
there is a limit to the amount of new parameters you can make but if you use same parameter for things considering you can do sub-menu's within sub-menu's i would say i don't even know what the limit would be haha
chrome mica
Thanks for that info.
topaz moss
So looking at some of the gifs and videos people have made playing with this, have they fixed the issue with Index controllers overriding finger poses in animations?
atomic blade
You could probably make state machines with toggles, thus creating a psudo binary based selector. IE two toggles give four results, three give eight, four give sixteen and so on.
fallow sequoia
@topaz moss Finger tracking on Index must be explicitly disabled in a VRCTrackingControl, if you want to use and animated hand.
wheat temple
AV3 sounds good, comes right for my Avatar that i am working on.
proper idol
To the above messages, yeah. I found out if I made a special parameter in a sub-menu, it must exist in the main menu stage as well. Though, Nothing stops me from saying "Emote 30" and have a submenu do higher counts, if you wanted to like idk, seperate your emotes I guess. Standard, Dances, etc.
I do like that the left/right hand gestures are separate. If you're holding a gesture with the right hand, its fun to stack variables by saying while righthand is fingerpoint, if lefthand is thumbsup, do this.
visual dagger
yeah, it's a pretty powerful system
hmm, apparently my tutorial video didn't finish uploading last night... thanks youtube..
proper idol
One odd thing i did notice though. Which, I guess i could just do this another way to get around it. I made a simple animation to make a cube float up/down and spin, to the side of my avatar. This works correct, when playing in the animation window. I slapped this onto the "Additive" so when menu-triggered, it plays. Well.....it works, the cube is doing its looping animation...except, horizontally. its like its on a completely different plane lol
visual dagger
interesting
proper idol
its not like there's options to tell an animation to rotate itself 90 degrees up..so..rip
work-around would be to just make a gameobject, put an animator on it, and just FX toggle that object on/off
visual dagger
depends, if it's tied to a particular bone, and that bone gets rotated
proper idol
its shoved on the armature. which, i guess it doesnt 'have' to be there..
visual dagger
additive is supposed to stack on top of existing animations, so if you're moving the locomotion isn't changed it's just stacked
might have to test that at some point and figure out what it's doing
proper idol
I figured additive was the best spot for it, considering the idle animation is looping when standing still, and if I want a 24/7 looping motion of an object, i figured that would be the best spot for it. made it work, at least.
obviously in the FX tab the object just appears, but doesnt animate. Does its thing in additive, just in the wrong direction 😛
Am trying something though..so ill update with results.
visual dagger
yeah, you're not wrong, that seems to be the best place to put it just a matter of figuring out why the rotation
proper idol
whelp. I half fixed it.. lol
So the armature is rotated in X 90 degrees. To stand-up right. So I put the cube on the avatar instead of the armature. Tested the animation in the unity editor, to see it move up/down, while spinning in Yaw.
Load it in game. It moves up-down now!!! Its rotating in the same orientation, Yaw, exceeeeeeept 90 degrees pitched forward XD So that didnt work either. Something still skews it for some bizzare reason. If you do goof with it later, yeah. use a skinny rectangle for an easy visual
I think its just a goof in unity and putting rotation on stuff. If I set the skinny rectangle to all zero, the orientation I dont want, then I animate it to the orientation I do want, it works fine now. My rotation un-animated, was being applied on-top of the animation, thus making it display wrong.
visual dagger
lol, fun times with unity
well that took forever, but tutorial part 2 is finally up
now to decide what to do part 3 on
proper idol
would kinda be fun if the radial "puppet" could be a 0-100% modifier to say...a light source for example. Thought I read you could do stuff like that with it, not only blend-shapes
tho if you did touch a tutorial on the whole puppet blendshape thing..id poke it lol
visual dagger
I know some people have been using it as 1-100% and also for color picking
a light source specifically could be interesting
woven goblet
Can do it for range too, which is pretty neat. Especially with shaders
proper idol
Yeah, thats an area of unity i havent explored. Like, Sure. making an animation that changes a slider value is simple. And sure, making the radial spit-out to a floating value is easy. Idk how to make that value get TO the object.
visual dagger
with an animation basically
I have an animation that turns off 3 'shirts' and turns 1 on, then you just use the menus to play that animation
4 different animations means i can change shirts on my avatar
proper idol
Also to quick touch on my previous issue:
In unity, I can have the skinny rectangle at ANY orientation, when the animation file plays, it corrects the orientation perfect everytime.
In game, I MUST have it at 0 0 0 rotation, and it'll show properly.
if the object is rotated 90 Y in unity, then in game it does the animation + 90Y