open-beta-discussion

[lone fossil]

but like 144+ fps in a private lobby by myself

[keen nova]

Don't make perfect things on the beta, things change

[timber plinth]

60 with friends

[warm cedar]

No, I just know how to use safety settings properly

[molten cobalt]

the documentation mentions they they're contemplating removing very poor

[stable mantle]

You dont understand the complexities of software dev or how hard it is to make this stuff work on Quest. I know it seemed like they were working, but it was a house of cards waiting to fall. This is better, long term. Has nothing to do with making PC "better". Quest is limited hardware.

[raw forge]

Most of the fps hit comes from the players themselves. Nothing to do with their avatars

[warm cedar]

and they should, give the E-avatars a run for their money

[timber plinth]

everyones gonna stay forever robots/fallback on quest now

[stable rivet]

i have a 2017 acer nitro 5 and it runs vrc just fine as long as the cpu doesn't max out

[timber plinth]

the true metaverse experience

10 fps gang or public fallback gang

[stable mantle]

Tupper explained that's mostly due to abuse earlier tonight, though.

[ebon marlin]

im fine with poor avatars when its a smaller user count like with friends but people need to keep in mind public and having alot of people optimization is important.

[stable mantle]

If my kinda avatar was the peak (31K tri 10 mats) they wouldn't even think about it.

[timber plinth]

tell that to all the quest users with eboy thot avatars and are also like 5 years old so they don’t even know what a performance is

[lone fossil]

i feel special since i still use a oculus rift S

ITS LIKE

a flex

to not have a quest now

[warm cedar]

All my roleplay avatars (5-6 people in a lobby) are very poor for event reasons, I usually don't take these out in public unless I'm shitposting lol

[keen nova]

It's like how quest can only use quest shaders. People complain. Avatar makers don't care.

[lone fossil]

the only thing i hate about quest shaders is not able to add a fine outline to some avatars i make

[warm cedar]

I myself only care when a model I use has the green texture issue

[timber plinth]

lol when people triple their polygon count by making outlines with a normal flipped copy of the mesh

and they fix culling by also flipping normals on another copy of the mesh

[ebon marlin]

one of the reasons i like vrc is cause they let you be a dev and have to think of these things. as if you were making your own game.

[stable mantle]

More or less Quest has limitations because a lot of creators abuse the system. — If they didn't VRChat devs wouldn't mind so much.

[timber plinth]

the only people who care about optimization is me and like 70% of other creators

[stable mantle]

If people cared we'd probably have custom shaders by now.

[lone fossil]

i hate using my kinect for full body but it works i guess

[timber plinth]

most of the actual players don’t even know what is going on

[raw forge]

70% is being over the moon generous

[ebon marlin]

and that is the sad dev life.

[timber plinth]

ive had people tell me to “use the green avatar” because “vrchat said its good”

and they thought “very poor” meant in taste

[keen nova]

Why not just use a matcap to get outlines.

[ebon marlin]

lol

[warm cedar]

Kids trading avatars are funny

they stoopid, I feel superior

[timber plinth]

because every eboy avatar was very poor

[molten cobalt]

yeah that's quite strange

[lone fossil]

"uhm, can i clone that avatar pleas??? i want it!!!!1"

[timber plinth]

u say that but half of those are nsfw avatars

[molten cobalt]

and also break terms of service

[keen nova]

Trading public avatars."

[warm cedar]

Private moment

[warm cedar]

I know how vrchat works my friend, I'm not that stupid

[lone fossil]

i don't know how much times ive seen a 9 year old quest user using some big breasted furry avatar

but its alot

[ebon marlin]

not really beta stuff but still find it funny there are still people who think those avatars are ok in vrc.

[timber plinth]

its worse than that once they start pulling out the toggles

[warm cedar]

virtual shrecks funny, shrecks look at me, shrecks penile hahah

I am soo funny

💀

[timber plinth]

i mean what you do in private rooms is none of our business but if its a pub and theres kids there be civilized

even if u are one of the kids

[keen nova]

I know I know, it's just like people telling me. "Uhh, your cloning is on".

[timber plinth]

bro eboy avatars spread in pubs like the coronavirus

[stable mantle]

tbf sometimes this doesn't work and looks bad.

[lone fossil]

unpopular opinion i hate mmd avatars

they look gross

[timber plinth]

one person has cloning on and suddenly everyone is afflicted with the eboy

[warm cedar]

It's still bad, breaking TOS

even if it IS private

[ebon marlin]

"its in private so vrc says its ok" no they say no nsfw stuff.
its like "i can break the law as long as im not caught"

[molten cobalt]

mostly I just dislike that they tend to inherently disrespect the original creators terms of services

[timber plinth]

u say that but vrchat didnt ban a world i reported as a dungeon because it was private

[stable mantle]

eh if its a private instance with consenting people, eh? Its when the avis are public its not cool.

[warm cedar]

It's still against TOS buddy

[ebon marlin]

yep

[warm cedar]

that's like saying, a heist is fine as long as the employees are okay with it

[stable mantle]

Really? Then why do their dialogs seem to use language to the contrary?

[warm cedar]

it's still stealing.

[ebon marlin]

im fine whats kept in private stays private but dont act like its TOS safe.

[timber plinth]

lol gotta love the shitty avatar creators who just remove the menu options so you open the 3.0 debugger menu and see theres dozens of NSFW states unused and in the perf rank probably hidden meshes that were never removed

[lone fossil]

why do people seriously think its funny to play a video of a guy blowing his brains out on the public tv in a world

those ones where you can like place urls

[ebon marlin]

and that is where most of the confusion comes from.

[lone fossil]

and stuff

[warm cedar]

Sipp literally told us in general not more than 9 hours ago, It's illegal

[surreal mulch]

Can you not grab your own bones?

[warm cedar]

you can, but set it to allow 'self'

[lone fossil]

no you can't they're in your body...

[stable mantle]

My boyfriend found one of those. Protogen with a ||penis|| toggle.

[lone fossil]

that would hurt aswell..

[surreal mulch]

I can't seem to find that for some reason.

[warm cedar]

I think you might want to ask what he's doing, if he 'found' it

[warm cedar]

Grabbing, has to be on

[molten cobalt]

has anybody put bones in a pizza yet

[stable mantle]

It was a random avatar in a public instance lol

[warm cedar]

was confusing it with contacts sorry

[timber plinth]

there was this one kid that told me to check out his avatar in the spinny preview because of the bug where if you check the preview it enables every mesh thats on the avatar even if its hidden by animators and whatnot so…

[warm cedar]

Report the o.g user and avatar at that point

better get both removed than have the avi floating around

[ebon marlin]

for hidden avatar stuff found if funny when the avatar preview for the performance menus started showing disabled meshes. got to see all the hidden attachments for some peoples avatars.

[stable bramble]

https://twitter.com/FairlySadPanda/status/1517033212966580224 >:D

FairlySadPanda (@FairlySadPanda)

#VRChat

Avatar Dynamics is very interesting >:D

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 21, 2022, 6:51 AM

[molten cobalt]

did all the quest users fall asleep as it seems the bone talk has stopped

[stable bramble]

Just tested and it works in game too

[timber plinth]

i mean where vrchat draws the line on nsfw is really bad anyway

[warm cedar]

Penile toggle, vag toggle, toggles for nsfw expressions

[molten cobalt]

very cool

[stable mantle]

Yea thats the thing. Like, the SDK has NSFW checkboxes. The loading dialog specifically says NSFW is against TOS In public & friends, friends+ instances. Like it gets pretty specific, which is confusing if its against TOS across the board. Why specify?

[warm cedar]

Looking good

not as good as my functional taser:

[stable bramble]

ohno

[warm cedar]

you're missing that.

[timber plinth]

theres plenty of avatars with borderline nsfw in terms of bulging in all of the wrong places

[signal condor]

nope! im just optimizing my ez avis and saving headaches for wayyy later

[timber plinth]

and of course dynamics

but thats all ok and 13+ by vrc standards

[molten cobalt]

good idea

[warm cedar]

or proportions that are out of this fucking world

[stable mantle]

Sadly I dont recall which world it was in since we hopped quite a few worlds trying to find him an avatar to use till he had his own. We were just mildly amused by the broken toggle that was clearly intended for rude purposes and moved on.

[timber plinth]

yes it goes down to my ankles what about it

[ebon marlin]

from my understanding those check boxes are from very old vrchat they dont do anything anymore.
and for loading dialogs that is the exact issue why people think its ok. but go read vrchats actual TOS on the website.

[timber plinth]

and they havent bothered to remove it because why not

[signal condor]

well thats the reason why its such a grey line, the discrepancies between them make it confusing.

[ebon marlin]

cant answer that. think it was part of some old market place they had.

[warm cedar]

I was talking fucking thighs so thicc you would create a black hole from all the pressure

[timber plinth]

but u can still disable the ability to change them or allow the ability to remove them if they exist

[timber plinth]

but thighs isnt nsfw

[warm cedar]

I wasn't saying that

I was talking about proportions

Asking every hour until it happens: Tupper update when?

[timber plinth]

tupper update: eating cheetos on the couch again

[molten cobalt]

also I would point out we have kind of wandered pretty far away from anything actually related to the beta

[warm cedar]

Oh my bad: physbone limits good

fite me

[timber plinth]

physbone bulges be like

[molten cobalt]

yeah I also agree with the limit

[stable mantle]

Yeah it does technically violate 12d. I wonder if it's like mods where officially all of them are banned no matter what they do, but unofficially, select mods used by professional streamers for, like, cameras and stuff, don't get them banned.

Against TOS but not actively enforced without reason.

[stable bramble]

=_=

[ebon marlin]

to track back to beta talk.
Hey you should upvote my canny posts. https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1184-bug-foot-detection-inverted

[stable mantle]

Still doesn't explain why they revamped their loading dialogs and left that weirdly loophole allowing tooltip in.

[ebon marlin]

this is a issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pryVfRdCsm4

[stable bramble]

Have updooted for you jet

[timber plinth]

yes and just blatantly forgot the go button in the back exists

[surreal mulch]

It's definitely weird I don't have the option to allow self grabbing for bones.

[ebon marlin]

:D

[stable bramble]

Anywa

I for one am glad that my random complaint that the original beta broke one of my boobs has resulted in me being able to make a working arcade cabinet

I can do shenanigans now

[timber plinth]

its not for grabbing its for interaction

[stable mantle]

What does that even do? Ive been told the go button behind you does something but for me all it did was break my load process until I restarted VRChat.

[warm cedar]

shrecks dynamics

[warm cedar]

Fashion :D

[timber plinth]

it does the same as the regular go button but its theme is from like 2019

[stable mantle]

Ah

[ebon marlin]

so when can we expect a esport fighting game with avatar dynamics.

[timber plinth]

all they need now is to put the old loading screen back in as an easter egg if you look behind yourself

[stable mantle]

On Quest it looks like the normal go button but with a weird red thing on it atop it.

[warm cedar]

If you use the Tag "Damage" for global PVP, right now

[timber plinth]

thats from their weird angular design choice at one point

[molten cobalt]

https://twitter.com/SalbugVR/status/1500718921061654533?s=20&t=z2Y2kP0FiwQTXIvk7grOoA

Salbug (@SalbugVR)

Thanks to #AvatarDynamics, @MarinoDev's 'Avatar PVP' system can now be fully realized in #VRChat!

Here's a video showcasing some of the shenanigans we got up to while testing~🤜💥🤛

Likes

372

Retweets

109

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 7, 2022, 6:24 AM

[fallow isle]

Hi

[surreal mulch]

So it's not possible to grab your own phys bones?

[ebon marlin]

ya ive seen this but was curious for a arcade cabinet.

[fallow isle]

Sorry about earlier guys

[timber plinth]

it is.. Its part of self interaction

[warm cedar]

You may have disabled it

[timber plinth]

use a collision radius larger than 0 and check the size of your grab spheres

[warm cedar]

or nah, unity braken

Unity breaken the is do constantly

[stable mantle]

In this case isn't that more an easter egg? All the tooltips were redone in their new design language, so keeping "hey no NSFW outside private" when NSFW in private is ban-able seems... suspect.

[surreal mulch]

I don't see anything related to self interaction

[stable mantle]

Amen

[timber plinth]

qm -> avatar interaction -> self interact

[surreal mulch]

Ohhhh, in-game. Got you. I was thinking unity lol

[timber plinth]

u can grab them in unity too

need to be in Game view though not Scene

[warm cedar]

And have the camera tagged as MainCamera

[timber plinth]

its like that by default

at least for me

[warm cedar]

Not if you delete the cam, and create a new one

[timber plinth]

i also have my own free cam script

so i can move my camera around like i can in editor view

and mess with pb easier

[warm cedar]

Shut

don't speak like that

you will confuse the sdk2 users

[timber plinth]

oh no scripts

[warm cedar]

but good job on that script

oh sorry

[timber plinth]

also fun fact

[warm cedar]

"advanced trigger"

[timber plinth]

you can kinda do scripting in animators

lots of funny stuff u can do with a large quanity of parameters and states

[warm cedar]

yep

create logic gates I suppose

[timber plinth]

i remember writing a floating point calculator for avatar 3.0

[molten cobalt]

like didn't somebody make a boss battle map in SDk2 exploiting the heck out of Animation controllers

[timber plinth]

it did numerical multiplication, addition, division

using blend trees and whatnot

[warm cedar]

congrats on them for wasting their time lol

[timber plinth]

but it only worked on numbers -1.0 to 1.0

[warm cedar]

U# and udon can do it lol

[warm cedar]

It's a float, what did you expect

[timber plinth]

well

not exactly correct actually

[molten cobalt]

it was before SDK 3 existed

[timber plinth]

-1.0 to 1.0 but expanded to integer

[warm cedar]

time travel then ig lol

[timber plinth]

so -127 to 127

and not actually -128 to 127 because of something funny with how vrchat networks a float

[molten cobalt]

now that I think about it I can't think of many SDK 3 boss battle maps I've seen on vrchat

[timber plinth]

I’m 99% sure vrchats float networking is just integer/127.0

[warm cedar]

Yeah because it highered the quality by highering the difficulty

[surreal mulch]

That option doesn't seem to enable grabbing or turn off touching. It isn't doing anything for me

[warm cedar]

Is your collision bigger than 0?

collision on physbones that's 0 cannot be interacted with in view

[timber plinth]

self interact will allow grabbing and pushing with the hand colliders

[open kite]

You gotta have a radius

[timber plinth]

otherwise it will interact with others and your own manually set colliders only

[surreal mulch]

No, it's fairly large and interactable

[timber plinth]

which is funny also

because people with clients discovered u can network grabbing and posing still if u pretend there is a radius on your end

only way to prevent this is to disable the grabbing property

[warm cedar]

I do that in my toggles

My cherubs always have a toggled for the cord interactability, it gets annoying and by experience small kids can't FUCKING STOP PULLING IT

[timber plinth]

lol

yes unplug the protogen life support every 4 seconds

cuz funny beep boop sound

[warm cedar]

As a lifelong protogen hater

I like this idea.

cherubs > protogens

[timber plinth]

it exists

[warm cedar]

I know

I've abused them

[timber plinth]

there is this proto avatar with a removeable battery

[warm cedar]

I do not feel bad, I feel good about it

[timber plinth]

and it plays a death animation and beeping sound

[warm cedar]

They disabled it, because they were getting mad

[timber plinth]

and every 2 seconds someone pulls it

[warm cedar]

too bad I say, protogen bad

[timber plinth]

also this contact tag stuff is going too far

people are putting finger label contacts on their boobs so they can slam them against buttons

[warm cedar]

cringe

fucking cringe

[timber plinth]

at least now i have squishy cheeks

[warm cedar]

that can also press buttons

[timber plinth]

https://i.gyazo.com/e4860e8e66c71eceb8cbe9217e1c24c5.mp4

[warm cedar]

My cherubs are better

they get mad when the cord is pulled

[timber plinth]

they don’t have squishable cheeks

-3000 social credit

[warm cedar]

THEY DON'T NEED IT

They are much better without them because

I am right, that's why.

[timber plinth]

imagine

https://tenor.com/view/doggo-cheeks-chubby-corgi-cute-gif-8207740

[warm cedar]

Brah I am not furreh

furreh has done the smexual harrasment towards me

no more furreh

[timber plinth]

yes because of course no one else who isnt a furry has ever done that to you

[warm cedar]

No, only full body tracking users and dekstop users

they get the same treatment no worries

[timber plinth]

so everyone

[warm cedar]

Practically lol

[timber plinth]

quest users when they find a perfectly clean bed in murder4

[warm cedar]

I don't play murder 4

[timber plinth]

ok amougus

[rough ingot]

can u not animate the values of phys bones? i have an anim that changes the values on my tails script and its all changing and triggering properly, i can see the values being edited on the script but it doesnt actually change?

[warm cedar]

Isanimated

[rough ingot]

had it on, was a flaw with my anim logic, got it now

[warm cedar]

Good job take a cookie

🍪

Asking every hour: Tupper update when?

[silver ledge]

while ( $adupdatereleased != true); do ping Tupper "update? where is it?"; sleep 3600; done

[tawdry grail]

is it intentional that physbones completely disables tracking/IK on armature bones?

[warm cedar]

No! this is a funny gag and I'm not trying to bother his actual work.

[silver ledge]

same man, i know they are busy, that's just another joke since he had a short linux talk in the ik beta channel xD

[midnight dome]

what update

[small surge]

Do not put physbones on any humanoid ones, it will lock em

[tawdry grail]

Is that going to be fixed, or we just dealing with it?

[warm cedar]

Avatar dynamics

Are you... have you been living under a rock?

[small surge]

move whatever you need to its own root instead of a humanoid bone

[tawdry grail]

Seems a bit odd to have this glaring issue in a release candidate

[midnight dome]

wait wut is it live? sorry i havent been paying attention to these things xd

[warm cedar]

sigh

this is the open beta chat

we're talking about Avatar dynamics

[small surge]

read? no time ! #open-beta-announcements

[midnight dome]

oh ur right uhm

[warm cedar]

my gag is that tupper released a candidate

[midnight dome]

sorry lmaoo

[warm cedar]

so I'm jokingly asking him "update when"

[midnight dome]

ohhhh

[warm cedar]

Now that I have explained my joke it has lost the funny

[tawdry grail]

then you better go catch it

[warm cedar]

Nah too lazy lol

I'll get a better one

[open kite]

You have failed the comedy

[warm cedar]

Kung IK2 open beta when?

[teal pine]

That's actually interesting to hear ! I guess separating mesh between body/head can help ? having only deformations on the head happening, or facial expression driven by skeleton, or just less and merged shapeskeys

Curious about "when they are on", are they expensive even if they are not moving ? Or it's when they are updated ?

[warm cedar]

Actually that's something I've been wanting to put on the canny

a prop system for gameobjects, please tell me there's a canny fot it

[silver ledge]

it depends on the avatar. From own observations with a ~100k poly avatar separating the face from the body (body does not posses blendshapes) helped reduce the graphic cards load

[stable mantle]

I think i had an idea for one and one for clothes but idk which one i submitted.

You mean like for avatar props yeah?

[warm cedar]

any type is good. we need this system, disabling an object is far better for performance than just scaling it down

[warm cedar]

yipyip

[stable mantle]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/feedback-add-optional-component-feature-to-mark-objects-as-optional

Kinda like that?

Or something else?

[warm cedar]

Yersh

guud

Can't upvote it as I'm not logged it atm, but will do soon.

Avatar Dynamics when moment

[tulip quest]

Time for avatar model creators to stop making highly customizable public avatars if they are striving to not be "Very Poor" rated. by having 200 blendshapes to change every aspect of the avatar on the fly

[silver ledge]

i agree on that, but the thing is that the very poor rating is getting reached pretty quickly, hence i guess a lot of creators are like "its very poor anyway"

[warm cedar]

As soon as I reach something crutial and hit very poor, performance doesn't become an interest to me anymore

the entire performance system is flawed from a design standpoint, there's no point in trying to create something cool in the future because it will be very poor after a single thing

[rough ingot]

Am I missing something here? Phys bones is animating and updating the values but not actually changing? The tail should float up due to the negative gravity.

[silver ledge]

i do not judge that way of thinking. Its just sad that that way of thinking is a bit encouraged by the current limitations

[warm cedar]

We can still judge it for now

add a limit for blendshapes and I think there'll be a riot

We already can't add unity objects because material slots, and now we can't add blendshapes for items because of that limit, this system is becoming a joke

[silver ledge]

i wish they would include a vram limit as well tbh

[warm cedar]

For pc: 2Gb

quest 10MB vram

Not to shit on quest users, but mark my words

[silver ledge]

no, i mean it like limit per avatar

[tulip quest]

Yeah, even if you are under the skinned mesh limit for very poor.. you'll hit the poly limit before that. I had that issue with this model https://westhovenarts.gumroad.com/l/fSmUE 36k poly model but the clothes bumped it's poly pretty high and I had to remove a bunch of it's clothes to be under 70k

[warm cedar]

the gap between pc users and quest users is growing, and soon we will literally be unable to do anything cross compatible due to the limits

[tulip quest]

even though each piece was like 5k poly and under

[silver ledge]

if i crash nowadays it is in lobbies where i run around with 95% vram usage on my 11gb 2080 ti. sadly a couple of my friends face the same issues, reducing render resolution down to 60%ish helps prevent this in most cases

[warm cedar]

4K texturas go brrrr

facking learn how to optimise, to the entire community

[fallow rock]

8k enters the field

hello 4k

[silver ledge]

2k textures max, couple of matswaps included

[tulip quest]

I bully people on the daily for not crunch compressing. When your avatar is a bigger file size than the world. Fix your shit.

[warm cedar]

I will pay you, to kill yourself.

[silver ledge]

crunch compression does not help with vram size

[fallow rock]

lmao

[tulip quest]

I understand. But still, file size matters

[silver ledge]

thats true, i agree on that

[fallow rock]

This is a tiny test but this is literally what people do

[warm cedar]

My limit is at 75Mb

[tulip quest]

My limit is 65mb before it auto hides

[fallow rock]

claiming 30mb but actually being 210

[silver ledge]

that 120mb is max vram usage when i matswap literally everything. its downlaod size is 19.26mb

[warm cedar]

lowering it to 25MB post AD

[tulip quest]

My avatars I use personally is usually 30mb and under. Half of them under 20

[fallow rock]

I'm just trying not to walk into that triple digit area.

[warm cedar]

Mine is like 7

[fallow rock]

it's not good in any way but it's a start

[warm cedar]

Dots, Don't like your attitude there

always optimise

[open kite]

Very Poor at 300MB+ please

[warm cedar]

OPTIMISE YOUR SHIT.

Please, if you may do it now.

[fallow rock]

no like that is it being optimised. It started at 400+

[open kite]

So many Avatars hit that 300+ mark its ridiculous

[warm cedar]

very poor at 100mb

you really don't need that many textures or audio of such high quality. people need to stop convincing themselves they do

besides the egocentrics and narcs, you are not the only avatar in the lobby. and you won't be in public lobbies.

[open kite]

I've never been able to hit even 100

Even with 3 entire sets of clothing

[warm cedar]

I've never been able to hit 15.

[open kite]

It's so piss easy to optimize

Unless your mask is a gradient, theres no reason to ever go above 500 x 500

Yet I see 4k masks all the time

[fallow rock]

oh yeah, black and white masks at like 256 or 512 but usually the first.

[open kite]

Reminds me of that one time I was working on an Avi that used two 2k textures for a completely black and completely white mask

Literally could be a single fucking pixel

[tulip quest]

I wouldn't know, I wouldn't see them 🙂 I rarely show avatars if they have the blue fallback logo

[open kite]

Why is it at 2k

[open kite]

VRAM is not calculated into performance stats

I could make an Excellent Avatar that could take 500mb of VRAM

Easily

Give me 5 minutes

[fallow rock]

probably all their textures are coming from one ps project

[desert grove]

very true

i recently have lowered the resolution of my model cuz of vram usage being high

[open kite]

I could slap 3 raymarch shaders on an Avi and still be Excellent and make your frames drop at an instant

[desert grove]

4k resolution = bad for vram

[fallow rock]

10 8k textures, 50 body/clothing blendshapes, 1 mesh, 1 material
BuT iTs ExCeLlEnT ;-;

[desert grove]

yikes

[open kite]

I really wanna see what happens when I create a material with Poiyomi on it and fill every single texture slot on the shader with a separate 8k texture

And then whip that out in VR

How to rob everyones VRAM

[fallow rock]

Unity crashes. Texture limit or something. Hit it with a material the other day and wrecked a project trying to fix it. Had to make a new project

[open kite]

LOL

[warm cedar]

waiting for the day for the performance rank to be calculated server side, so people can't modify the sdk as easily

[fallow rock]

At least I'm pretty sure. Use too many texture slots on 1 material and Unity closes.

[open kite]

Guess I'll have to find out where the limit is

I still have 2 more material slots left on an Excellent avatar anyways so I'm good

One of thems gonna be a raymarcher

[fallow rock]

Someone told me 64. That counts just slots.

i didn't test it myself

[open kite]

I wanna see just how shitty I can get an Excellent Avatar

Any shapekey limits in Blender

[warm cedar]

make it public

prove your point

spread the message

[open kite]

Absolutely not lmao

[tulip quest]

When will we get shader perf options

[fallow rock]

I did something similar. Made that Very very very poor model which performs like and went to make a avatar that noticeably dropped frames when you changed into it
It was just for the clubs that have the performance limits

[open kite]

I just wanna do some benchmarking tbh

[tulip quest]

I'm sure there's something we can calculate on shaders for perf

[open kite]

Kind of but not really no

[fallow isle]

I’m so upset

[open kite]

Thry has a material performance testing tool but it's inaccurate as hell

It's just for shits and giggles really

[fallow rock]

damb really, saw people praising it

oofers

[warm cedar]

especially the shits

on vram

[open kite]

The tool literally tells you that the values are scuffed

Big ass warning message

And that you shouldn't rely on them ever

[fallow rock]

oh reading? maybe that's why no one saw it

[open kite]

It's just a fun thing to see for nerds

That's all

[small surge]

Mostly i just use it to see if i forget to crunch something

[fallow rock]

I mean looking at this chat like 7 hours ago you can see no one reads the announcements

[open kite]

LOL

Yeah people don't really like reading

There's literally 2 yellow warning triangles in thrys tool to tell you that you shouldn't take the values too serious

I mean

The SDK panel kinda conditioned me to ignore those signs

Because they're merely suggestions anyways

"Your Avatar is shorter than average" cool beans, VRChat 😭

[small surge]

average wich is 0.8m , small ones all over

[fallow isle]

I’m kinda sad about the bones being limited

[warm cedar]

Cry about it

sorry to be rude

but it's not going

[fallow rock]

"This avatar is not imported as a humanoid" like whatever, it's just a warning ignore it

[open kite]

You really shouldn't be, because questies gonna hide your avatar anyways if it had a lot of Bones, so what difference does it make

[open kite]

I wish we could hide those warnings tbh

[fallow rock]

nah dude just don't use phys bones at all, go on strike, make a statement

quit the beta

leave the discord

[warm cedar]

not using them will not change Jack SHIT LMFAO

[fallow rock]

uninstall vrchat

[open kite]

Same energy as people saying "it's quest compatible" but it's just the same model that's already unoptimized on PC but with VRC Mobile shaders instead lmfao

That thing isn't gonna run my guy

[fallow rock]

I literally think that's where the complaints are coming from

[open kite]

People seem to overestimate the power of the Quest

"But it runs fine on my gaming pc"

[silver ledge]

shorter than average? nah!

[open kite]

Literally atom sized

I could trip over you

[silver ledge]

im not short, i am cute and adorable!

[open kite]

You won't be once I accidentally step on you

[fallow rock]

Swap dynamics to phys, upload to pc, swap to android, upload to android. "oh it's ready for quest"

[open kite]

Hate that lmao

[warm cedar]

What do you mean I can't have my 1 million poly 800 mat slot avatar on quest? Who care's I have an rtx 3090 with 64GB of vram? These stupid quest users ruin everything! Proceeds to become a quest crasher cuz he's fucking stupid

[open kite]

[fallow rock]

then everything changed when the limits nation attacked

[open kite]

Real gamig hours

[fallow rock]

soo......
Any crazy issues with this beta still going on?

[warm cedar]

Physbone limits !!!

[fallow rock]

I'm ready for all my models that toggle dynamic bone scripts to turn into spaghetti

let's get this show on the road

[tulip quest]

Gaming Gaming Gaming Gaming Gaming

[warm cedar]

Physbones Physbones Physbones Physbones Physbones Physbones Physbones

[gilded agate]

hey so this is really frustrating. Phys bones works for everything on my avatar except for the tongue

anyone know the reason why?

[dusty gulch]

Where do i get the avatar dynamics

[vast pier]

With the new physbones candidate out; what do you guys personally think of the comparison between it and dynamicbones? I don't personally have time to look into it myself at the moment, but I'm curious to know what you guys think of it.

[warm cedar]

It's the same in practice, much different under the hood

and will boost your frames by at least 9X than what Dynamic bones took.

(that doesn't mean more frames, just less lag)

and also

read the damn info channel

not you

the rest

Physbones are much better compared to Dynamic bones

and the salty PC users being pissed at quest limits can only blame themselves right now lol

[vast pier]

It's definitely promising, I remember seeing a comparison video a month or so ago which shined physbones in a pretty bad light; but it seems this recent update fixed alot of what was wrong with it.
I don't really give a shit about quest limits personally lmao, the only thing I see most people angry about (justifiably), is most of peoples models being broken due to broken conversions from dyn>phys.

which is what they've really improved on from what I've seen

[warm cedar]

Models being broken is also their own issue

I've been warning people on live and telling them to warn others, this WILL break some avis.

[noble nymph]

rip to the older avis that don't get maintenenced anymore

[vast pier]

It's moreso the fact that people are annoyed that they have to swoop in and fix 100+'s of models. Which is completely understandable as a modeler, it's such a nuisance

[warm cedar]

Been pushing them to test the beta to lessen the learning curve lol

[vast pier]

and yeah, big RIP to the older deprecated avatars

[warm cedar]

It's not a model issue

it's mostly a unity issue

[vast pier]

I meant avatars ingame, rather than stuff in Unity.

[warm cedar]

Well too bad if they're too lazy, the game is early access. they were warned

[vast pier]

I mean, it's a bit unfair to assume everyone who's upset is lazy when they've poured thousands of hours into their work. Especially if they don't possess the assets anymore for their older work. 👴

I can understand both sides, really

[hallow drift]

imagine not keeping backups, thats on the creator

[vast pier]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ anything can happen

such as hardware failure, etc

[silver ledge]

i am not upset about the update, im just like "and now i will update one avatar per day for the next month or so"

[hallow drift]

if a hardware failure makes you lose files, you don't have a backup

[vast pier]

I'm not in much of a bad place myself, I have like 10 or so avatars I have to go in and fix which is no problem, but I'm a bit saddened by all of my older avatars not really being usable anymore. It is what it is, though

[silver ledge]

backup for unity projects? who in the world would...?

robocopy "E:\unity-projects" "\\servername-here\unity\projects" /MIR /XD Library

oh yeah, me

[warm cedar]

Unity is Much too stable for backups, you don't need it

anyone who belives that line needs to use unity a bit more.

[hallow drift]

I'm just happy I moved my projects to my gitlab now

[vast pier]

I have too many backups saved for my world/model projects. My hard drives are so cluttered because of it. :^)

[warm cedar]

You know, I usually keep an old backup, and then a backup I update each upload

[hallow drift]

commit on each change so you can revert to anything

[vast pier]

In my case, I've been making stuff for VRC for five years now, so I've made a backup for just about everything; especially for every Unity version update

[hallow drift]

no file duplication unless it's changed in the diff

[vast pier]

I need to buy myself an external HDD for this shit

[silver ledge]

snapshots on my server and a daily differential backup from that to the cloud & external hard drive. can go back in time on a daily basis for like 90 days xD

not syncing the library folder of unity helps a lot though

[vast pier]

I'm a bit of a nutcase when it comes to future proofing and protecting my work, so I typically make massive backups, even on like 60gb+ projects, and just store them somewhere like a squirrel. Never know, man.

[silver ledge]

something not backed up? not important data. That's what i am telling everyone

[hallow drift]

there's a decent .gitignore for stuff you should not sync on github

[vast plaza]

library directory in my avatar project is 11 gigs

[fluid peak]

20gb for a single project

[zinc marsh]

i just use git for backups and that works well

[zinc marsh]

you sure about that

[toxic verge]

Library folder is generated asset and you don't need to include into backup file

[vast plaza]

i know

[toxic verge]

So talking about its size is irrelevant

[sand needle]

I would like to ask a question about phys
(If I ask a question on the wrong channel please let me know, I will delete the message, I use a translator ,I'm very sorry >~<)
There are some chain accessories that don't respond or work properly in phys,I've tried constantly re-adjusting the settings but to no avail(the glasses in the video are one of them)

[fallow rock]

In regards to the conversion option for Dynamic bones to Phys Bones in the Performance Options, If I set that to keep dynamic bones, does everyone else see me in dynamics or would my model respect the option they chose?

[bright pewter]

It's a local thing. Others will see you according to the settings they chose

[raven laurel]

yes i think it will convert to user that have psyh bones

on options

so it respects user choice

[fallow rock]

ahhh my issue immediately comes back.
Okay, guess I'm ditching sleep this weekend

can't have everyone walking around with thin mesh strings extruding from their body due to phys scripts not being toggled by old dynamic animations

[warm cedar]

Dynamics are yes go make me B:)

[fallow rock]

Wish I toggled gameObjects right about now

[silver ledge]

i share your pain, dont worry

[warm cedar]

Tupper live release when?

[silver ledge]

did you really set a timer to remind you once per hour?

[raven laurel]

why you want it so badly it needs to be perfect bcs if it isn't that's another reupload for you

[warm cedar]

No I'm just outstanding at being an annoying little shit

Just reminding all of you to get up and fix your stuff before live

[hallow drift]

urgh I want to but I don't want to

should go back to the old sdk2 ones that I never use but cbf delete and properly decide to delete or update

[fluid peak]

ETA: <t:1650709440:R>

[fallow rock]

Completely off topic, how do you format this message to show that?

seems helpful

[silver ledge]

i will probably wait for that

for my production projects to migrate i think

[hallow drift]

i imagine the release sdk will be small fixes, nothing changing that bad about the avatars previously uploaded

[warm cedar]

This sdk will be updated for release is what he means most likely

[warm cedar]

they don't work in the weekends

[winged scarab]

What is the hard limit for on quest?

[fluid peak]

Too bad, still expecting it in days

[winged scarab]

^

[fluid peak]

I think 8 components 64 transforms

[last viper]

• This means that the Oculus Quest has a hard PhysBone limit at these values: >8 components, >64 transforms, >16 colliders, >64 collision checks

[warm cedar]

Good

[fallow rock]

that question came across more like Why than What to me at least

[winged scarab]

Why'd they only just do that? It's kinda silly in my opinion

[fallow rock]

ensuring good performance is the shortened version

[last viper]

wait, do the collision checks include or exclude the base colliders? (the ones automatically setup trough the avatar descriptor)

[small surge]

no more slap on quest shader and publish it for quest

[winged scarab]

It ran completely fine for me

[raven laurel]

it's still better than it was on beginning

[fallow rock]

a lot of people have said that but their testing is done to give a good balance between function and performance for the hardware/software available with max player count in mind

iirc was the general reasoning

there's a reason poor and very poor are hidden by default after all

[open kite]

My personal reasoning is that people will not give a shit about Quest performance if there was no limit, they would just keep their current Phys Bone setup without any regards for performance

[fallow rock]

so a limit was set so people don't fry the hardware

[fluid peak]

I think they just want it to have as little of an impact as possible, since it's not like on pc where they replace dyn bones, adding phys bones will just add even more stuff for the poor quest to compute

[toxic verge]

Totally wanted to add 1 million physbones

[open kite]

Quest should be happy to even be able to see that stuff in the first place

[fluid peak]

Speaking of stuff can't see, why aren't constraints whitelisted?

[raven laurel]

mobiles processors can't handle them as well

like transparency

[open kite]

Dev team probably busted their asses off to get this running on Android just to have people complain because they can't spam the living crap out of it

[fallow rock]

This update wasn't meant to bring quest into the Pc realm but it was able to bring some form of secondary movement to a platform that had none.

plus Phys is a lot more than just secondary movement

the limits give a decent range to add some interaction and secondary movement to models

[fluid peak]

Wait, so the processor just cannot handle them, like it's not because they are expensive to run, they just straight up not work?

[elder cairn]

My physbones are acting weird (they ignore the limits and bend too far) how do i fix this?

[fallow rock]

but there was never an intention to allow the live users to push it too far

[open kite]

Mobile processors just aren't as powerful and can't run too much stuff at once

[fallow rock]

I'm surprised there aren't other things on quest that get disabled when they hit the limit like particle systems. You can get some madness results with particles

[open kite]

Not to mention all the other components that also offer less performance or straight up aren't even a thing on Quest

[raven laurel]

madness= crash

[hallow drift]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1181-constrains-on-quest

[fluid peak]

I know that they aren't that powerful, but constraints aren't expensive to run, they are a lot less performance intensive than say colliders and rigid bodies

[hallow drift]

Tupper responded with whats up with constraints on quest there

just uhh scroll down a bit past the merged posts

[fallow rock]

wait, that last bit. What does he mean? Such a specific number

[hallow drift]

probably whatever number of constraints that you /could/ see in a public world ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[open kite]

Probably a floating point issue

You can actually use floating point manipulation to do some really fun stuff like grid snapping objects

[elder cairn]

Can someone please help? I have a time limit on how long i can work on this avatar today

[fluid peak]

So the reasoning is:
If you have a lot of constraints performance degrades

[winged scarab]

It's not about that. The performance was actually fine before they put a limit. The limit affects avatar creators who make things for quest. Also this is a beta, giving your opinion isn't "complaining"

[fallow rock]

last test I did had 14520 constraints. It went about as well as you'd expect

[hallow drift]

was it fine though? or just fine for /you/

was it fine for the people in a public?

[fallow rock]

how many people in a world on average with it still feeling good?

[hallow drift]

I imagine they're being realllllly careful - stress testing this as much as possible

[fallow rock]

plus it's not like testing will just stop 110% and it'll never be touched again

[winged scarab]

That's a fair point. But quest does have a built in auto-fallback system to begin with. And other safety settings

[winged scarab]

True

[hallow drift]

running profiles of the theoretical max physbones you can have in a single world, and trying to balance that number between fps and number of bones

especially on quest, where afaik they HAVE to keep a minimum framerate to be listed on the store

[winged scarab]

But I think the limit in my opinion should be a option for what you can run, moreso than a hard limit.
TLDR: Having a limit isn't bad, it should be a bit more reasonable

[open kite]

What about constraint sources

[fallow rock]

each had 1 source. Haven't checked 1 constraint with 14k sources xD

[near grove]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/physbones There is an inside bound check box on the collider side here, but it is not visible in VRCSDK 0420 version.

[fluid peak]

[formal breach]

40 people in an instance using max transforms is 2560 transforms total. VRChat can have up to 80 people in an instance. This limit is there for a good reason.

[near grove]

Has it not been applied yet?

[open kite]

I'm generally always curious about pushing numbers and what it does to my precious Float operations

[near grove]

Float math is always weird

[fallow rock]

Empty unity scene had 3k fps +/- 100. 14k constraints later it was 1.9fps (729ms) in the unity stats

[formal breach]

Honestly it's not a bad thing you've got a limit because it prevents just simple abuse of these components, and at least you can have a "reasonable" limit, because all Quest hardware is mostly the same. Adding a limit to PC just wouldn't be as simple

if only.

[open kite]

Upload it as an Avatar

[fallow rock]

nah it was 120 models in the scene

[fallow rock]

I just plugged it in and I have the option. not sure what to tell you

[hallow drift]

dammit I forgot why I opened unity editor now

[hallow drift]

thanks

[fallow rock]

mans thanked themself

[open kite]

Chad

[hallow drift]

yeah im a hero

[near grove]

'O'

[light flare]

God last night when i got on I heard little kids and adults expressing how upset they were because of the update

Me myself I had 16 avis and 14 of them were stripped of physbones

I found it slightly upsetting but it's understandable

What I heard people talking about was that there should be an option to where if you wanted you could only see friends physbones and stuff

[open kite]

Wdym stripped of phys bones

[winged scarab]

That's what's happened

[obsidian wagon]

if you have too many it will just straight remove them ingame

[near grove]

I will say floating point calculations are always going to be worse on quest, if you've ever been in a big world you can obviously see it getting very obvious rounding errors trying to handle it. Constraints are probably hitting a similar wall, not enough power to handle pushing thousands of constraints through the floating point calculations.

[winged scarab]

Yea

[fallow rock]

when you pass limits your freedom is stripped from your very soul

[open kite]

No way what lmao

[hallow drift]

based and linux-pilled username - https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

[light flare]

Like I had avis that moved beautifully and then the update pretty much stripped it to only interactive bubbles

[open kite]

Okay but why tho

[hallow drift]

top left corner has a drop down to select different doc-pages from each build btw @near grove

[winged scarab]

If it exceeds the limit the avatar won't have Physbones, AT ALL

[raven laurel]

new update gave hard limit when you above it no psyh bones for you

back to unity

[winged scarab]

May as well not make an update lol/j

[hallow drift]

I've opened that page up so many times now it's the first result when I type "a" into the browser

[open kite]

Like, we are talking about PC here right?

[fallow rock]

Quest fam

[open kite]

Oh

Then I don't care

[near grove]

How do i get lastest physbone VRCSDK

[fallow rock]

[hallow drift]

in the 2nd latest post in the announcements channel my dude

[small surge]

Theres a ton of quest av thats just pc version with quest shader slapped on

[raven laurel]

https://files.vrchat.cloud/sdk/VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.04.20.16.27_Public.unitypackage

[fallow rock]

Wait, that isn't how you make a Quest avatar? /j

fug, 99% of creators are doing it wrong

[hallow drift]

right*

[winged scarab]

I think that the hard limit needs an increase. Like increase the hard limit to like, 20 for the components-/hj

[hallow drift]

:p

[raven laurel]

it is still twice as it was at beginning

so i doubt it gonna be more

[hallow drift]

and infinitely more physbones than you had before

[winged scarab]

Yea

But like if you exceed limit, regular quest experience💀

[scenic phoenix]

Isn’t a component a bone or something?

[near grove]

i feel like the componets should be 20, bc ligit we cant have anything except hair or skirt on human avis

[fallow rock]

This is why root bones exist

[scenic phoenix]

And yeah I agree the hard limit is a bit too low considering I handled 10 people with a lot of bones in one world just fine

[ebon merlin]

They put the limit the way it is for a reason

[hallow drift]

^ surely parenting so hair+skirt takes up 2 components

[frozen cliff]

Low-key so many people are about to switch back to live

[near grove]

nope

[ebon merlin]

But feelings matter more I guess

[near grove]

hair that looks good takes at least 4

[light flare]

I wish I had a PC because God it's better there

[small surge]

We got the best lag

[near grove]

Let's just remember limits are done for the original quest. Performance is extremely limited there

[hallow drift]

looks good
that's honestly debatable - you're not trying to get the perfect flowing hair, - you go with the best you can do with what's given

[light flare]

Yeah lol
I plan to eventually make a PC on my own and get good parts so o can see things

[winged scarab]

The limit is too low, like at least 10-20 is probably better and btw (quest users don't automatically see avatars) so it's up to the user if they show everyone

[near grove]

yeah

[raven laurel]

you guys expect too much from 300$ device

[fallow rock]

Breast, butt, hair front, hair back, hair sides, skirt, jacket + 1 is 8 components. All can use root bones and will keep you under limits as long as you don't have like 10 bones in your chains. Having literally 1-3 bones in a chain is enough if you smooth the weightpainting.

[frozen cliff]

The reason is bullcrap they say it's so "very poor avatars don't melt our headset" but we've been looking at very poor avatars for 2 months and I haven't had mine melt nor have I seen reports of them melting

[scenic phoenix]

The quest can do a lot for what it is in all honest

[ebon merlin]

Sample size 1%

[near grove]

mine is very poor but doesnt melt or lag anyone

[hallow drift]

YES - and then they're adding physbones ontop of already verypoor broken avatars

[near grove]

Quest 2 though, original quest will definitely melt away

[raven laurel]

yeah remember that limits also need to consider quest 1

[winged scarab]

Defo

[fallow rock]

that's a good point, the original quest needs to be considered in the calcs too

[frozen cliff]

Again that's already been happening and no one's complaining

[scenic phoenix]

I’ve seen redditors with clips of high bones on quest one and it did decent aswell so it could be raised a bit to Atleast 10-12

[hallow drift]

promise that people won't complain when they crash every 30 minutes because someone NEEDS every little bone to have a perfectly working physics simulation on a android phone trying to run vr

[near grove]

they should test 20 bones at least

[fallow rock]

I imagine they did

[near grove]

it wasnt laggy before

[hallow drift]

the quest limit is 64 bones - what are you even talking about

[scenic phoenix]

Components

That’s what needs to be raised

[near grove]

You only really can test at world capacity

[fallow rock]

they're talking about components but terminology hard

[near grove]

componts

[trim bone]

I would say... quest user can be thankful that they can have that stuff in general. complaining about it is kinda weird xD

[open kite]

That's what I'm saying

[frozen cliff]

If you got such unfair limiters put on your dynamics you would complain -_-

[hallow drift]

either way, the fact that vrchat runs on the quest at all is a miracle, the addition of any amount of physics bones is an insane feat

[fallow rock]

it's more the people that had everything are now being rationed to a decent amount but going from unlimited to decent can seem like a colossal hit to some

[near grove]

ur pc u wouldnt understand

we were excited by have stuff like pc butt now its so limited only furry avis can have phys that looks good

[trim bone]

that will be fun if the times comes where vrchat removes very poor avatars for quest xD

[open kite]

That just makes no sense

[scenic phoenix]

If they do that people would be mad

[open kite]

If furries can make it look good then anyone can, they don't get special privileges, they have the same tools as everyone else lmao

[near grove]

furry is just ears and tail

[winged scarab]

Most avis have about 10-20 components so the 8 component limit is kinda 😐

[open kite]

If furry avatars look better on Quest than other avatars then that's not a VRChat problem, that's a creator problem, you're complaining to the wrong people

[trim bone]

you guys need to know what limitations mean and what hardware is capable of. yes a pc can have everything but the lag is very real

[fallow rock]

@frozen cliff @near grove Once upon a time, before quest, there were pc limits that wouldn't let you upload at all and we worked with them for the sake of performance. We have been through exactly this before

[winged scarab]

Just become a furry?

[frozen cliff]

Ok so you don't think the devs would learn from there mistakes💀?

[winged scarab]

If you're on PC you probably don't understand why us quests are "complaining" anyway

[near grove]

^

[fallow rock]

I didn't see it as a mistake, I wish it still was a thing

[frozen cliff]

Exactly PC players don't even need an opinion on this

[near grove]

We kinda need a poll to check how many people are still going at quest 1 VRchat. Just to get a percentage of the userbase.

[fallow rock]

I walk around with 90% of worlds hidden because showing a model that has no limits drops my fps from 40 to 15

[hallow drift]

vrchat devs would have the numbers for that anyway

[silver ledge]

you mean that fabeled 20k poly hard limit, which didnt allow you to upload an avi at all?

[near grove]

Unfortunately we can't see them

[frozen cliff]

So just like yall have been arguing don't make bad avatars with high amount of bones

[winged scarab]

I mean they can, if they also own a quest

[trim bone]

I know and I'm a pc user and get limits from the performance ranks. I try to stay on medium on pc and poor on quest. I know what limitations mean

[warm cedar]

Tupper update to live when?

[open kite]

I'm not even talking about Phys Bones anymore, I'm just saying that saying "only furry avatars will look good" is a stupid argument and not VRChats fault. If you want better Avatars, push creators to make them, you're complaining to the wrong person.

[last viper]

and make use of root bones instead of giving every strand of hair it's own component, one thing i also see from time to time

[fallow rock]

yeah and a lot of us don't, but people abuse what they're given. Give someone and inch and they'll take a mile.

fam it'd happen to quest too and then showing a model would become a game of Russian roulette

[winged scarab]

That's true and yea, I didn't mean it like that, it was a joke tbh

[small surge]

This setting is extremely handy for physbones, before i had to use radius to make the root not move

[frozen cliff]

Ok then again give us what PC players have an allow limts button

[raven laurel]

hmm that wouldn't be stupid idea to have limit turned on by default

but only for quest 2

[winged scarab]

💀

[near grove]

and have a option to have it off so there no limit

[last viper]

i'd say, make a canny about it and vote on it

[trim bone]

I think there was a limiter for dynamic bones too on default in the settings in vrchat

[fallow rock]

You don't have the hardware to be on the same playing field. If you want to play with pc avatars, get a pc xD

[near grove]

like a toggle for physbbones for us quest users

ok thats rude

not everyone s rich

[desert grove]

having it off..... and then u would complain when people crash u.....

[winged scarab]

I feel like the limit should be a toggle like dynamic bones on pc

[near grove]

i can block

[ebon merlin]

A PC has infinitely more horsepower than a $300 smartphone headset

[near grove]

i never had lag before

on beta

[desert grove]

ur full of shit

[near grove]

im not

[warm cedar]

Nah u serious? Naaaaahhhh u aint real

[winged scarab]

Me neither

[raven laurel]

you don't have lags now bcs trolls dont use beta

[near grove]

not once even with somone who had 300 bones

and around 40 componets

it was a big avi XD even my personal had like 30 componets

[trim bone]

can we please just chill a bit more in here. we are just talking the same thing over and over again :D

[silent grove]

No that is not possible

[warm cedar]

Fkite, let's fix this

[winged scarab]

Even without Physbones you still have that problem on quest

[frozen cliff]

I am able to link my headset to a 2016 dell and play vr and it runs worse than my quest so no YOUR PC runs better

[last viper]

or maybe a way to select how many components you are allowing to be shown?

[near grove]

^^^

[small surge]

People barely know config.json exsist, you think they will read about the new stuff ?

[humble pulsar]

The issue is that did you test that with lots of people in a lobby with similar setups as yours?

Sure it may not lag for just you, completely accept and understand that. But if 20 people had that then there may be major problems

[near grove]

Priority bones?

[winged scarab]

Yes thank you!

[warm cedar]

Cry about it, you're not getting a higher limit so if you don't like it, make a canny. go annoy the actual team instead of acting like a child and throwing a fit on discord

[raven laurel]

remember quest users that us pc creators need to consider quest versions too

[hallow drift]

yeah imagine a world with 40 of those avatars

[desert grove]

@frozen cliff have u made these suggestions on the canny?

[frozen cliff]

¿Porque?

[open kite]

[near grove]

no need to be toxic, this is callled open beta discussion for a reason the team looks at this chat for feedback as well

[noble sluice]

enters channel to make an announcement
... is this a bad time? 😶

[near grove]

But they want canny posts still

idk i wont lie ive always found optimizing avatars for quest kinda fun, i always learn a lot. like how to manually atlas :)

[near grove]

ur fine go aheas

[warm cedar]

They don't take feedback here, they need the canny for most issues.

[winged scarab]

Definitely

[last viper]

i myself understand the limits, since i have had issues already just playing on the quest and showing just a few avatars, but at the same time i'd say, give the people some amount of freedom, so that you can adjust depending on how many avatars in the world.

[trim bone]

yeah. the canny is most priority for a change in vrchat

[noble sluice]

cool, I'll get back to benchmarkin' then

[winged scarab]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta

?

[fallow rock]

For making a canny post on the max allowed numbers, if there's a world that allows a high player count, collecting a large number of people with max Components/transforms and showing that having a lot still gives good performance would give a good platform to build an argument

[trim bone]

yes

[hallow drift]

hover over them to see tooltips of what each param does

[near grove]

Does VRchat do vulkan yet? I believe it's still Opengl right now

[timber jewel]

VRChat is DX11

[fallow rock]

We're having a passionate discussion on the implemented hard limits for quest Phys bones

[winged scarab]

I agree with this 100%

[near grove]

Opengl on quest then

Or not, not sure

[frozen cliff]

But we literally can't do that anymore we would need 30-40 people for it to even equal up to what used to be 7 - 10 people

[timber jewel]

Tell us

[noble sluice]

quest should be OpenGL ES 3.X IIRC

[hallow drift]

you'll mostly be messing with pull and spring for those

just play with it in play mode until you're happy, then copy the component, unplay and paste it back in

[noble sluice]

I figured out how to workaround a dumb AV3 bug which was preventing my public physbones benchmark avatar from working properly; now that it is- I'll likely be ready to feature it alongside release with the rest of my data so all of you can test the differences more granularly on your own hardware and see the differences both systems have in long/short chains

[hallow drift]

I've been slowly adding some decent defaults for my avi's to a text file so I can just enter whatevers closest and add them in then tinker from there

[noble sluice]

working really hard rn, but the end data will include both clean "pure" tests of chains between both systems and real-world conversion differences with common avatars from a variety of sources

can't report exact numbers yet (spoilers!) but it's pretty good

[timber jewel]

Uhhh nice, when I did some testing with my own "Test Avatar" I always had around 30 frames more when using Phys Bones in desktop.

[timber jewel]

Gald to hear that

[noble sluice]

tons of numbers to gather today, I'll get back to that!

all I wanted to do was play isaac and eat junk food aaaaaaa

[timber jewel]

Haha you would whish xD

Pretty happy that Phys Bones are finally coming out though ngl

[hallow drift]

glhf - doing the lords work

[near grove]

physbones gave me 10fps more on my shitty laptop

[timber jewel]

That's good

[old rock]

Has there been any observations how this update may affect CPU core usage and anyone currently restricting the game's core affinity

[timber jewel]

Why would anyone do that?

[near grove]

Unfortunately because of the way VRchat is built means that it's extremely hard to have backwards compatible performance boosts with older avatars and worlds. Such as switching to vulkan, adding application spacewarp, and many other things. At worst, we'd have to collectively say yes to removing hundreds of thousands of avatars and worlds to get better performance, or at best wait a few years for a automatic conversion system to come out the pipeline.

[old rock]

It's been common practice for a while to use process lasso rules on vrchat.exe

[noble sluice]

no change

at least- I haven't seen any real difference from the tests I've done

[near grove]

Meaning that it literally is just a better physics system overall, rather than just multi threaded?

[noble sluice]

both, yes

yet to test whether the affinity tricks are still relevant; I just haven't heard of/seen any reason to assume they aren't

[near grove]

I mean there's definitely ways to force it

[old rock]

I mostly use it to keep vrchat.exe on one CCD on my Ryzen CPU

[wheat fjord]

Changes

• Added warnings in the SDK when building Android assets when Avatar Dynamics components exceed Very Poor limits to inform the author that the components will be removed at runtime

This doesn't seem to be the case I'm over very poor limits and not getting a warning before I go to upload

Did I miss something?

Or are the limits higher than I thought?

Still seems to rate as very power both on quest and pc but no warning

[hallow drift]

the limits should be riiiight below that

[hallow drift]

jesus

[wheat fjord]

I see no warning about removal

[hallow drift]

nah vrchat will just strip all physbones when you go in game

[raven laurel]

haha you wish

[hallow drift]

also for the love of god optimise that shit

[near grove]

Does performance even change if you give it all of the CPU it wants?

[wheat fjord]

If I can't get it to look good, it won't have ANY physbones on quest

[last viper]

currently missing, if you look on canny they will be changing it as someone already seemed to make a canny about it and it's marked as tracked internally

[raven laurel]

it isn't even avatar for pc

[timber jewel]

You probably don't have the latest SDK

[timber jewel]

There actually is a warning

[wheat fjord]

It has a pc version I only posted the quest version

[wheat fjord]

It IS the new sdk

[timber jewel]

Weird

[hallow drift]

also update your unity

[last viper]

warning but apparently not clear enough for some people

[raven laurel]

what if you scroll up

isn't there warning?

[wheat fjord]

no

[timber jewel]

Have you restarted Unity?

[timber jewel]

The Warning should be right there where it says Phys Bones are Very Poor

[warm cedar]

Heya doc!

[shrewd heron]

I can’t wait for the beta to be live

😆

[vague wolf]

Same!

It’s literally any day now

[warm cedar]

Hehe, let's hope it releases soon

[timber jewel]

[small surge]

"vrchat broke IK AGAIN" when it hits cause of mod users

[timber jewel]

Just tell them to use the IK beta xD

[vague wolf]

Lol 😂

But yeah last night I went to finally add physbones to an avatar I made for the occasion

[near grove]

It's definitely good for PC users, might need abit higher to at least 16 in the very poor for quest. Just so it's less of a pain point for parity. In fact a dynamic turn off of components if not being touched (but you could pick a few to be always on) might be a good way to keep performance higher.

[vague wolf]

True!

[warm cedar]

Tupper live release when?

[vague wolf]

We will never know

[scenic phoenix]

Seperate dynamics toggle maybe? Friends on by default and then for others you have to toggle it seperately from showing avatar

[timber jewel]

I mean they said it will most likely happen within the next day or so

[near grove]

It would Time out and smoothly snap back to static position if not touched in a bit.

[raven laurel]

` yeah in performance options you have toggle

[small surge]

~~alcholics ~~social people will rise up in anger if you do another weekend release

then quickly sit down at mirror

[vague wolf]

Lmao

[near grove]

Honestly should just be a feature, useally I've always seen people's avatars get stuck with odd positions that they can't fix sometimes

[vague wolf]

Oh yeah! I’ve seen that

[near grove]

Contacts would be already on every bone you can touch

So it would seem easy to implement

[hallow drift]

wouldn't resetting avatar fix it?

or am I misreading

[near grove]

And would be a nice performance option so you can set the timeout timer to 15s, 30s, and so on, even off if you'd want.

Might make a canny.

[stoic smelt]

Last test I saw, the physbones conversion removed colliders that were set up on the avatars. Has this been fixed? I don't want to manually re-set them up.

And for this beta announcement does this mean the PhysBones are going live in the BETA in a few days or live in the LIVE version in a few days?

[hallow drift]

going live in the next few days

[small surge]

dynbones colliders go poof on convertion in sdk, last time i tried em

[stoic smelt]

...so literally everyone will have to manually redo all the colliders on every single one of their avatars

[small surge]

Yeh i only had them on wrist

[stoic smelt]

This is going to be ab ABSOLUTE nightmare lol, okay, just checking

[vague wolf]

I believe so

[stoic smelt]

I have like 90 avatars and I cycle through a lot of them frequently, this is going to SUCK

[small surge]

You sorta wanna redo it anyway, without radius its very hard / impossible to touch a bone

Ive converted quite a few avatars dyn>phys , its not hard, even fixed some roots so its way better perf rating

ignore multi child, very good

[hallow drift]

the best time to start converting avatars was 10 years ago on first beta release, the second best time is now

[stoic smelt]

Why would I have started converting my avatars if the SDK release wasn't final

[sullen elk]

What's a good indicator of velocity and how that translates to VRChat collider movement?

[warm cedar]

I've warned creators in live to at least look at the update, they just kinda shrugged it off

lmfao who's laughing now

[hallow drift]

because they can sorta still work with older sdk release (or at least have settings that won't change /much/)

[tough lagoon]

Is there an convert option in the sdk anywhere?

for the dynamics?

[stoic smelt]

Especially since that would have meant keeping two, entirely separate projects created, rather than waiting until the SDK was updated to its release version and updating them

[hallow drift]

there's an autoconvert that tries it's best, but it's not perfect

use it as a base, and tweak and test to get it right

[hard lily]

So..In beta..no limit on quest for phys bones..but the update for a possible update has a very limited amount of phys bones you can have…

Whhhhhaaaat??????

[small surge]

You want posable off most of the time

Think the autoconvert also set 'isanimated on' wich is... eeeh 🔨 only a few need that

[sullen elk]

Welcome to beta testing.
Adapt to the new hard limit or don't use phys bones at all.

[warm cedar]

this, I back this

wise words Justus

[scenic phoenix]

Little harsh- everyone is just saying their opinion to be honest

[hallow drift]

yeah I see that, but it's not that much of a effort honestly

[near grove]

Well we were told physbones on quest wouldn't be too limited, but it's Abit tighter than expected

[raven laurel]

yeah maybe in future it gonna have better limits

[scenic phoenix]

I do agree with fox on that

[wheat fjord]

I'm not keeping too projects the new sdk is backwards compatible with the live version I have both my quest and pc assets using the newer sdks and have had no issues

It'll be out in a few days anyways

[small surge]

Used the open beta sdk on live, have 2 versions of same avatar one with physbone/dynbone , both work on live (dynamics course wont do squat currently)

[wheat fjord]

Likely friday

[sullen elk]

I'm flashing back to SDK2 limits.

[hallow drift]

yeah the best way was to leave the live avi's untouched, and just publish a AVDynamics duplicate while you test

[queen falcon]

I do hope they fix the Gravity Falloff, because currently its broken with animations. Thats not a small bug, thats functionally broken for a good amount of use cases.

[near grove]

We really need to make sdk2 disappear.

[wheat fjord]

That's what I've been doin!

Working out great so far

[scenic phoenix]

Might I ask do you mean something like a hand gesture that should cause my ears to fall down doesn’t cause it to fall down?

[hallow drift]

yeah

I gave up with that for all but my main avi's though - people can live without dynamic bones on the avatars for a week or two

[small surge]

To animate bones with dynamics, you must set it 'isanimated'

ear/tails/ect

[near grove]

Because dynamics isn't the native physics engine

[queen falcon]

Anyone using gravity with falloff that has any kind of animation will see weird glitches and jitters. Its something they added in recently which still needs a few fixes. I fail to see why you'd just dismiss something thats bugged because you dont use it.

[sullen elk]

It's gonna be such a good day once my prop swing activate prefab is completed and released.

[queen falcon]

I would also like to make it clear, I love what they have done, its awesome in so many ways.

But for me and other people I have talked to this really needs a fix. Its a smaller bug, but something that will create problems for many avatar creators, including me.

[inner kayak]

[hallow drift]

oop deleted ping

[tough lagoon]

didn't mean to ping ya

[near grove]

Physbones components are just the amount of possible physbone chains right?

[hallow drift]

nw idc

[inner kayak]

8 separate chains, 64 total bones affected

[near grove]

seems fine but two ears + tail, = 3 already

[hallow drift]

you have 3 tails?

[scenic phoenix]

So my ears , 3 hair tufts and tail would leave 2 chains left

[inner kayak]

my hair, hoodie, tail, and keychain is only 36~ bones

[hallow drift]

oh lol

^

[scenic phoenix]

I’m a new unity user

[inner kayak]

you can use a root bone to combine down component use

[scenic phoenix]

So this is still extremely alien to me still xd

[inner kayak]

[sullen elk]

You should start rooting together your bones that have the same use.
For me, Phys is on Headband and that one component affects both ears.

[near grove]

How hard is it to have them act as separate ears that way?

[sullen elk]

I can grab them separately natively so not hard.

[near grove]

they should just make the limit 15 or 20 tbh

[hallow drift]

afaik the only downside is you can't pose them independently

[scenic phoenix]

At least 12

[near grove]

Kinda odd should be able to pull them around and they'd stick at the same time

[hallow drift]

yeah-ish, you'd want separate components for that

assuming you can't, I tried it once and it didn't work but that was when the beta first came out

[winged scarab]

Ok for reference my personal had 76 components, and for a lot of people ran perfectly fine. I don't understand why they did this..

[sullen elk]

Build your case on the canny and get some voters.
Rally whoever ya got Nodders.

[hallow drift]

there is no way in hell anyone needs to have 76 components

[sullen elk]

Individual experience isn't a convincing enough metric for a game this size

[winged scarab]

Darlin' I can send you a screenshot

[hallow drift]

I'm curious to see what your avi looks like/what components are used for

please do :)

[near grove]

“i have 76 components” please use a root bone on your skirt and hair

[near grove]

Let's just start combining those chains that's like a ton that even goes past PC soft limits

[near grove]

whole quest comunity is upset ngl from wat i been seeing and im not just sayig this cus im one

[sullen elk]

We gonna talk about optimizing it? 👀

[near grove]

#quest-optimization is fun

[winged scarab]

Oh?

[near grove]

hip bone becomes a physbone

it breaks

cant tell if thats a sarcastic oh or you never thought about it —

[winged scarab]

Lemme show hol up

[sullen elk]

Make another root bone parented to the hip for all your chains then

[hallow drift]

^

[near grove]

wat kinda parent

[hallow drift]

unity is strange and has no proper concept of 'bones'