world-optimization

[hybrid ridge]

Your goal is to reduce as many draw calls as possible, putting objects together into one thing is good only if they all use the same material (Aka atlas'd textures on a single material), you can do this further by merging multiple objects via either static batching (Only if they share same material) or instancing (If they share same material AND mesh)

If textures are above 2k, might be worth reducing to make easier on quest (Their V-Ram is much more expensive)

[river kelp]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this, screenshoting so I can apply this!

[split wadi]

The object pooler makes it so each object doesn't need their own object sync behavior right?

[twilit atlas]

no, the object pool only manages whether an object is enabled

[viscid hatch]

@hearty ore Murder 1 remake?

[hearty ore]

yes

Not the channel to talk about that tho

[viscid hatch]

I remember playing it and it was so much better, seeya

[unkempt summit]

So i mentioned reducing the voice radius based on player count so I could lighten up processing. Yeah it obviously worked, but the side effect is it makes the world much more lonelier since the talkative people tend to gather in one spot, that other areas became quiet. It was overall a bad effect for events, since I used to keep voice radius high so it sounds lively.

so I instead changed it so you would hear up to 20 people no matter where you are. It would prioritise players in the same area as you, and then add in random people from other areas until there are 20. I think it became a nice compromise where processing is slightly lighter due to the capped people talking, and still being able to keep voice radius high.

Wish it was a standard functionality tho, haha

[teal swallow]

Hey guys, I was wondering what was the best approach when choosing textures, what is the recomended resolution for quest compatility ? Thanks :)

[obtuse bear]

atlas 2048x2048 with compression

[tawdry harness]

uuuh

not sure if this question should be here or in world development but

after adding prefabs for an audio player, url link etc

i now have 107 errors and cannot test load the world

is there any fast way to remoive them?

or any way at all?

[obtuse bear]

udon sharp installed?

[tawdry harness]

uuuuh

most probably not...

how does 1 install it? :3

[obtuse bear]

https://github.com/MerlinVR/UdonSharp/releases/download/v0.20.3/UdonSharp_v0.20.3.unitypackage

First you had to install it, then add scripts.

[tawdry harness]

well shucks, you are a lifesaver

thank you very much!

[obtuse bear]

If something does not work correctly, you will have to reinstall everything that depends on it.

Or look for objects where there are empty script fields and add them manually.

[tawdry harness]

aah

alrighty

I seem good for now but i will keep that in mind, thank you!

[valid ferry]

Hay is there something I need to turn on for my custom world to be working

[near isle]

Anybody here a techy nerd and can help me troubleshoot a problem in my world?

I've had tons of people say that when looking toward a certain area in my world that they have unstable framerates, so much so that even though their fps will stay consistent at like 30 or 45 fps, that they have really bad screen tearing and it looks bad, and i experience it as well. i'm not sure whats going on, as this part of the world doesnt have too much going on in it aside from a few bamboo trees and a campfire.

to hopefully "fix" it, i included a button near spawn that turns off all particle effects (there are a few in the world, but not intensive at all,) and turns off all the bamboo trees (i found that turning them off gives a significant increase in performance, which i'm looking into).
However, even with these things toggles off, and the fps getting better with them, players are still complaining about this one area. I genuinely have no idea what it is

when players look this direction, they see really weird screen tearing and inconsistent frames to the frame counter

there is nothing over that direction other than some empty terrain that goes on for a bit, but there is also terrain that stretches every other direction as well so that doesnt add up

my current theorys are

1. perhaps when particles are toggled off, there is some kind of bug where they keep trying to load and make people lag?
2. maybe the pool table that is nearby is causing some strange issue? though, even when it is toggled off, the issue was still present
3. maybe the bamboo is just too clustered over there, even when turned off it has some performance impact?

I really dont know what to do, and i'm really tired of people constantly complaining about it

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_703da6a1-11e6-4af5-90f4-11cc7ada306e

If you'd like to check out the world, it is this one

I'm currently working on an update to reduce the amount of bamboo in the scene by half, i'm hoping that will help

[untold apex]

use cyanemu to test your world in engine, and open up the unity profiler

that should give you some indication of what's chewing up your fps

[near isle]

i was looking at the profiler on its own but didnt see anything that looked significant, though its hard to read so i'm not sure, but i'll install cyanemu and see whats up

not sure how to use that though

[untold apex]

if your bamboo has a lot of transparency or a huge polygon count that could do it transparency really fucks things up if there's a lot of it stacking up

[near isle]

well it does use cutout double sided, the poly count isnt very high at all i dont think

[untold apex]

if your bamboo objects are identical (except for the transforms) make sure you're using gpu instancing on the material

[near isle]

i'd love to use unity standard on it like the rest of the world but standard doesnt have double sided

and i dont know any alternative

[untold apex]

don't use double sided materials

[near isle]

yeah gpu instancing is enabled

[untold apex]

double up your leaf geometry and reverse the duplicate side

[near isle]

that would actually be more optimized?

[untold apex]

yes

[near isle]

i had heard there was little difference heck

i can try that if i get it into blender i suppose

[untold apex]

i dunno that it's gonna fix your problem but in general you should avoid double sided materials

[near isle]

hmmm

welp lemme try this cyan thing

yeah i'm not sure whats up lol

i can try that bamboo mesh thing

[near isle]

alright so i did that and changed shader over to standard now, did a frame profiler at the same spot and it went from like 244 draw calls down to 201 for that one area, so that seems like a pretty good improvement, plus it looks better than the old shader i was using too

I'll upload once i fix some stuff and see if the weird tearing issue is gone

[quasi jewel]

I have an area light that is causing a little lag can any one help . at least I think its the light

its an SDK2 world btw 😛

[twilit atlas]

baked lighting should cause no lag, its performance impact is very low

[near isle]

After some light testing tonight it seems to have fixed the problem. Nobody reported weird tearing and I personally checked the built in steam performance overlay and it was a good 20-30% lower frame times which is a good improvement

Thanks for the suggestion!

[versed lake]

does someone have a solution for that it drives me mad.

[torn crypt]

Check Edit > Project Settings > Audio and see what your spatializer plugin is set to. I think the SDK defaults it to Oculus'

[versed lake]

there is non neither on pc nor in the quest project.

and there is neither to choose

and i already tried to install the Oculus tool but it destroys VRC SDK

[solemn tapir]

I mean, just clear them, ⚠️ aren't really a worry and won't prevent you from building. If you can't build, the issue most likely is somewhere else.

[versed lake]

i can build without problem but seeing the ⚠️ counter to explode is Anoying af

[solemn tapir]

There is a clear button, you can also uncheck the ⚠️ option in the top right corner so you don't see them anymore. Those types of warnings mean nothing

Only need to have the red stop sign errors shown, nothing else really matters

[versed lake]

sadly thats not true i use alot of Udon and udon script errors also pop up in the ⚠️ and i'm not able to See those when it nonstop filled with that

[solemn tapir]

It is true. Anytime you build or enter play mode, you will always see info and yellow triangle warnings regardless of if there is any actual issue with anything. Only the red stop sign errors actually matter

There are three buttons in the top right of your console, you can hide the info and yellow triangle options, so you console will only ever show you the errors that matter and not waste your time with stuff that is purely generated during the build/play process.

[versed lake]

yes but if i don't see the Udon error i would only realize that one isnt workin ingame on testing.

[solemn tapir]

Any UDON errors that come up as Yellow triangles mean nothing

[warped wagon]

dose anyone know how to reduce clipping planes for players?

[rose wolf]

set main cam to reference cam in your scene descriptor (usually named VRCWorld) and change clipping planes via the main camera

[sour seal]

So I recently got back into VRC the other day, and decided I wanted to finish my world I started three years ago. The weird thing? It now runs at like 2 fps, when previously, years ago it ran without issues

The world has two issues. It has one broken teleporter that for some reason I could not fix

And two, it now runs at 2 fps for some strange reason, when previously, it did not

It's a 1:1 recreation of twilight town from KH 2, with every single map included

I'm uploading it if anyone wants to see why the heck it runs like garbage in latest update

:/

[twilit atlas]

if the world is big, you may into high setpass and batching calls, the game window with stats enabled can give you a brief insight here

to run around in the world you should try cyanlaser's cyanemu

you may need baked lighting, occlusion culling, or less materials by combining textures, but it's hard to guess

[hearty moss]

I need some help.
So I have an empty that holds all the rooms in a multi-level world.
The empty has an animator that has sequential transitions between each of the rooms, with animations activating the preceding, current, and next rooms.
As someone goes into a room, a trigger activates, causing a predefined integer (labeled in the udon behavior) to activate, allowing the animator to move to the next activation set.
The Udon Graph is a "OnPlayerTriggerEnter" connected to a "SetInteger" with public variables for the big animator, and the integer.
The name used for the "SetInteger" is the same as the integer parameter being edited in the animator.

Unfortunately, live scene triggers by manually changing the parameter in the animator fails to move the sequence along, and I don't know why. Can anyone help?
Also, the transitions between each activation set have no transition time, and do not have exit time.

This is mostly to increase framerate and reduce lag. When there's only 3 rooms active at a time, the framerate is significantly better, but the triggers aren't working, nor is the integer changing...

[obtuse bear]

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/OcclusionCulling.html

If this is done to optimize rendering. then it makes no sense when turning off the rooms. Camera setup, LOD and occlusion is much more efficient.

And how to do animations with transitions correctly, you can read in the documentation there.

[agile steppe]

Does anyone have problems with Opening the "Build" Tab in the VRChat SDK window when trying to upload a world?
When I navigate through the Scene, Assets or GameObjects in the Scene, Unity is reacting fast without any laggs or slowdown.
But when opening the Builder-Tab in the VRChat SDK Window, Unity slows down almost to a hold (loads 3min + until the Tab opened). Unable to to anything in Unity while the tab is opened.
Trying to switch to another tab or closing the window, it again slows down almost to a hold.
Hitting the Upload Button doesn't do much.
The Console doesn't show any errors.
Unity Version: 2019.4.31f1 || SDK Version: VRCSDK3-WORLD-2021.11.24.16.19_Public

here it shows my provlem

[quartz shard]

i got an question i got alot grass in my map like 19k or so all like object one by one i thinking that occlusion gona save me from over kill and should work normali but is that so or i over killing my map thay get batchet but stil is that ok?

[versed lichen]

How many single objects does your scene have ? It may get stuck trying to load them

[versed lichen]

There's nothing overkill on that image, as long as you're not breaking batching, you'll be fine

[agile steppe]

uh.... yea that may be the reason.
I have two bigger FBX Files with a lot of separate meshes.

[versed lichen]

If you merge them in blender, I think you'll be fine then

[stable sierra]

Hi All! Hoping someone here can help. If i'm making club for vrchat what would be an acceptable amount of draw batches?

[versed lichen]

Aiming for below 300 at all times is good practice

[pallid gale]

so probably a good idea to merge non tiling textures together so that more stuff can be batched together

[quartz shard]

i dont know if batcheng is so good if you got alot of object i am looking around and with out occlusion i got 70 fps or lower but thay all batchet i woundering why maybe alot object ar in if you got like 25k object of the same material

and its one terrain stil got 3 more evry terrain got 2000X2000 xD

[stable sierra]

Thanks for the help @versed lichen @pallid gale @quartz shard really appreciate it!

[quartz shard]

am not done eny think i only asket samthink

[open jewel]

Is there any way to improve performance when physics are involved in worlds? I noticed the Timing options under project settings seems to have little effect, and I have a world using the pool table prefab that causes considerable lag on Quest (even with manual mesh optimization and shader replacement, just looking at it drops frames by 15 according to VRChat).

Screen lags out when actually in play if you're watching. And the room itself is a very modest small box with some textures and baked lighting.

(OVR Metrics concurs that it's only getting about 25FPS looking at the thing).

[solemn tapir]

Pool table has always performed like ass on quest. Put it on an area trigger so it doesn't lag the whole world, rather only lags when they use it.

[open jewel]

My world is not much bigger than the table.

It's basically a box with the pooltable.

[rose wolf]

i would use an older varient of the pool table that uses 2d physics, that was always performant on wuest

once fsp or xeixe took over, the extra network and physics logic got higher and higher

[solemn tapir]

Eh, I'd personally avoid Harry's stuff for obvious reasons but whatever works if you don't care. Most quest users seem fine paying a performance cost but ymmv

[rose wolf]

many quest users complain a bout it

[solemn tapir]

I've not heard that from my world but fair

[rose wolf]

at the end of the day, itd probs be super performant to use a crt and sync floats to do the physics more inside the graphics rather than recalculating aggressively

[open jewel]

What world is it?

[rose wolf]

well youre also not wrong. quest users are technically more used to it. but if theyve experienced actual 8ball stuff or did 8ball on pc, the most common response is “why is my display not moving”

[open jewel]

I did notice a change to the pool table in many worlds that caused my frames to absolutely TANK when pool is in play.

Like, even solo, when the balls are moving I drop to about 5FPS.

In a box with baked lights and the pooltable, nothing else. (Well, except proximity mirrors, but they don't render near the table.)

[rose wolf]

at some point, i need to finish my physics prefabs and revamp the 8ball table a little bit, add some AI maybe if i have spare time

[open jewel]

I'm wondering if using Update instead of Fixed Update would be better?

Granted, that'd reduce physics accuracy when performance tanks. But it's Quest. The physics causing the performance to take isn't much different.

[rose wolf]

for physics like 8ball, no, dont, youd have to compensate with extrapolation and recalling, at thay point, raymarch the balls with 2 rendertextures/cams to capture data since that will be on update as well

if you need to update slower, you can do an if counter

[open jewel]

I tried updating the timing value in project settings but I don't think VRChat takes that into account.

I'm fine with 30FPS physics. Or even 15FPS if it works.

[rose wolf]

but then networking is also involved, fsps 8ball table was a flagship for UNU (udon networking update)

[rose wolf]

15?

[open jewel]

If it works. Basically, idea is "run physics calculations at the lowest possible speed that lets stuff still work."

IDK what that number is, but certainly the current number just hurts.

[rose wolf]

hmmmmm, that gives me a weird idea, what if the inertia is precalculated before you hit the ball, that way, when you move at best 1 second interval (thays worse case scenario), then you could keep a stable physics sim in theory

but then the other balls would.... hmm

honestly, if the pool table was still doing 2d graphing calculator logic, itd be at a betyer place imo

[open jewel]

Do sphere colliders use more resources than cubes?

[rose wolf]

but it doesnt matter, if it works on pc, and thats the goal, then no ones going to fix it for quest unless you were harry

[rose wolf]

no

if i recall, spheres are like 1 calculation, where as cubes have to be made and calculated

[open jewel]

Yeah Im getting the impression that a lot of people see the Quest as "more limited" anyways, so they just give up on optimizing.

Which yeah, it's more limited. But it's not a Galaxy phone strapped to your face, even if it does run android.

[rose wolf]

actually, using a rendertexture for the pool table might be a really good idea

[open jewel]

How hard would it be to convert it to 2D physics?

For someone with very scant knowledge of Udon.

[rose wolf]

ummmm, from fsp’s repo, probably super hard, i rarely use that version anymore

[rose wolf]

oh then no, dont attempt it then

i would recommend trying to make pong in udonsharp first, or in shader

[open jewel]

Curious, but you mentioned an older version, but someone said not to use it "for reasons".

Is the older creator divisive? Or is their stuff just out of date?

[rose wolf]

oh ye, rumors and other weird stuff about the original creator, crazy lad, but heavy and fragile drinker

[open jewel]

Oof.

[rose wolf]

it kind of it? well, the rules for how to set it up is very unique since its custom physics and no one liked that, and theres a whole list of lore for the 8ball table and its drama

idk how fsp has been keeping it up, same with metaphira

i had a link to the last harry 8ball prefab but its somewhere i cant check without discord crashing on my phone

[open jewel]

I think I get the concept of using 2D physics. It's basically calculating a circle instead of a whole sphere, yes? And only in 2DoF (X,Y/X,Z/Y,Z), yes?

So like if you drew two circles on paper and determined how one would move if it hit the other one.

[rose wolf]

basically

[open jewel]

Which works for pool if you don't care about making the ball move off the table, or other things like that, yes?

If you only care about its direction in 2 degrees.

[rose wolf]

it would help on performance. but this was one of the issues that forced the original table to stay at y=0

[open jewel]

Why is that?

[rose wolf]

this also goves more room for accuracy on quest since you only get 4-8 decimals

[pallid gale]

I'm guessing from the way Unity handles 2D physics calculations?

[rose wolf]

I don’t know exactly or remember if i did know but my best assumption was it did doubles and such and synced it on the x,z plane manually

you wluld have to add the Y axis to the balls and table to allow you to move the entire asset away of y=0

cus its not pivoting from the parent its in for some reason

[open jewel]

Like, if it's doing 2D physics calculations, why would it care about an un-used direction? Are physics not in local space (to their parent object)?

Or was it some oddity with the way it was created?

[rose wolf]

its world space

i think the way they had fo do it forced them to do it world space

local space physics is actually really scary, ive crashed my self many times messing with it now that im thinking about it lol

i was trying to make potato head and sometimes the parenting and local scaling would get so out wack that youd instantly get the unity error window in game lol

[open jewel]

Hm. If I didn't care for accuracy, it doesn't sound too hard to do on my own. At least on the physics side. The udon side I'd be clueless, lmao. Udon itself kinda makes sense to me, but the way it handles certain things leaves me head scratching.

Though it sounds like unity physics can be a bit... strange.

Then again so is unity light baking.

Unity is a strange one.

The 2D physics thing very much makes sense in my head conceptually.

[rose wolf]

id recommend using udon for physics, relying on rigid bodies is really hard to do in multiplayer space

[open jewel]

So does udon have its own physics calculation system, separate from Unity?

[rose wolf]

no, its basically csharp scripting

[open jewel]

I mean I used to play around with C# and I know Swift which is syntactically not too dissimilar.

[rose wolf]

thats why i was also like “what if we used a rendertexture and shader” since thats basically C and would be more gpu based

youd still need udon to sync stuff

[open jewel]

I just meant what do you mean by this?

Are you saying "use Udon to sync the balls, instead of relying on the physics calculations to be 1:1 on both ends"?

As that'd be a given (to me).

Even FixedUpdate will reduce calculation speed if the performance drops low enough.

[rose wolf]

rigid body inertia tranfer, ownership issues, object phase thru, discrete or other rigid body issues are very common

[rose wolf]

thags what the original pool table did

it would only sync when turn starts and turn ends

[open jewel]

Ah so it didn't sync while the ball moved, only after a turn ended.

Basically Rollback, lmao.

[open jewel]

What I meant was Unity's physics engine has a built in timescale (for Fixed Updates) for if performance drops. By default it's .333 seconds.

[rose wolf]

but at the end of the day, physics is hard, the best i can say is “youll always want to be in control of your physics at all time”

well, then lateupdate i guess should be used for that kind of set up

[open jewel]

TBH "rollback" style physics would be preferable. You don't need it to be perfect as long as it syncs up each turn. Being turn based makes that easier.

[rose wolf]

or just have it be updateless

use events and args

cross talk between behaviours

[open jewel]

Couldn't you just sync whoever's turn it is?

[rose wolf]

ownership, yep

[open jewel]

So P1's turn uses P1's data, P2's turn P2's etc.

[rose wolf]

i feel like fsps table does the same thing, but ifk

[rose wolf]

yep

so its almost always locally calculated anyway

[open jewel]

This is in the fixed update for it.

You might be able to understand it better than I.

[rose wolf]

it will always sync to the owner/player who just went, so whatever they see is what will happen, if p2 sees no balls go in, but the turn ends and suddenly theres 3 balls in, something wrong is happening

give me like, a minute to dl image lol, im in a tunnel, im surprize i havent spammed messages from lag

[open jewel]

Though I notice in FSPs they adjust the Y value so it sounds like their physics are just as jank in that regard lol.

[rose wolf]

thats what id assume theyd do

also, they use walkthrough layer or default/whatever instead of their own custom layer for their own physics

theyre mixing with other layers, like how render queue on all materials are set to 2000, and they basically all render at once and youd get lag, that might be the same scenario, but this change was made so world creators didnt have to do it on their own cus, no one knows what layers are most of the time

that could be another lag factor

like, go to edit or file on the top left corner of unity, therell be a pereference or project settings button, one of those will open a window with “physics” as a tab on the left, that will show all the layers and what layers are allowed to interact with eachother

[open jewel]

Yeah that's in project settings -> physics.

Unity recommends customizing this for performance reasons, but I have a suspicion that this does nothing i worlds since the VRChat client itself likely dictates this.

Though I was tempted to try adjusting it anyways, see what happens.

The pool table is so bad on performance just looking at it drops frames.

And according to the profiler, it's CPU, not GPU.

So even sitting still it seems to be running the physics on everything.

[rose wolf]

it works in game. i worked on a collab world that got to layer 30

[open jewel]

So changes made in physics settings, saying which layers can interact with which, are reflected?

[rose wolf]

weird, is there a void start in the table? icr

[rose wolf]

right, except for mirrorreflect, player, and some of the higher layers

but yes, theyre reflected and can be changed as long as its a layer that doesnt alter a vrc mechanic

[open jewel]

Hmmm. Makes me wonder if the SDK is just noting dev's settings, and the client sets those at runtime in code on world init, then.

Kinda like animation layers being downmixed on avatars.

[rose wolf]

sdk forces you to make vrc layers bfore letting you even upload

you can check by making new project

[open jewel]

That I'm aware of.

Wasn't saying that it doesn't acknowledge the layers. Just that the client isn't straight up overriding certain settings the "Unity way".

[open jewel]

Yes. A pretty big one too. With line breaks and brackets, it's around 180 lines. So I'd say, 100 lines of actual code, conservatively?

A lot of void start seems to just be initializing the laundry list of variables though.

[rose wolf]

its overriding some stuff, id assume itd have to but ig you can check right now. ive never tested pass pickup layer

or did anything that required me to mess with those lauers for physics

[open jewel]

Ye. But I imagine it's doing so via custom routine.

Otherwise you'd be able to override VRC layers.

[rose wolf]

ok, is there anything in their that might be starting the calculations or unlocking the fixedupdate to do an aggressive amount of checks?

[rose wolf]

right

[open jewel]

I didn't notice a change in performance either when adjusting physics timing settings which is why I assume this. It seems VRC has a set physics timing which can't be changed (unless U# lets you?)

[rose wolf]

you can do an if counter

[open jewel]

Nope. Just sets a bunch of variables then exits

I'm thinking it might be the UI layers too? Unity's performance optimization post mentions splitting objects up into multiple canvases and dos-n-donts of UI in Unity.

[rose wolf]

hmm, id make a button script that sends an event to the main pool table script. add a bool to the pool table script that will be used to basically turn off fixedupdate, add a function that is the same event name that the button states that switches the bool and see if its something in the fixed update

[open jewel]

As well as saying to deactivate the canvases and not their parent game objects.

[rose wolf]

like panel and batch logic. that would make sence

[open jewel]

There are a lot of parts to the UI, and it does look like they just toggle the parents.

[rose wolf]

theres something else that optimizes ui in 2019 but i can’t remember

it was something really random about ui draw calls and passes for some reason

[open jewel]

They also use grid layouts and everything is under one panel object, 2 other things Unity says not to do for performance.

They only recommend grid layout for dynamic content.

And suggest breaking everything into separate panels and canvases

[rose wolf]

theyre at least using a toggle group?

i wonder if they did that for fear of the ui crashing on start

[open jewel]

And the FSP table has it all under a single panel, uses grid layouts, AND disables the parent object and not the UI panel.

[rose wolf]

cus I know 🤥 the latest pool table doesnt like being disabled on start

[open jewel]

https://blog.unity.com/technology/optimize-your-mobile-game-performance-get-expert-tips-on-physics-ui-and-audio-settings

[rose wolf]

but i still think the focus should be cpu rn

[open jewel]

Like they break a handful of things in the UI section.

[rose wolf]

the fsp unitypack should come with different ui tables

[open jewel]

If framerate drops from 45 to 20 on "stock" settings (i.e. Quest hasn't been set to high performance via ADB), fixing that alone could help performance.

[rose wolf]

maybe you can try the seperated physics layer idea as well

[open jewel]

Though would UI layout be done via GPU or CPU?

[open jewel]

It has different tables but I didn't see any alt UI options.

[rose wolf]

ummmm, use mesh ui, use manual line renders, gpu physics raycast maybe

i feel like some of the stuff in the newer pool table uis are a bit extra

but, id try to make sure nothing transparent, could make a button that hides the ui since its most likely render view anyway

[open jewel]

Looks like CPU.

And they do the nono of having everything under a single canvas.

[rose wolf]

was about to copy and paste that

[open jewel]

So it redraws everything any time the UI changes.

[rose wolf]

and float point accuracy might hurt too

[rose wolf]

yes, no gpu instancy

[open jewel]

Which would explain why FPS tanks when you look at it. Constantly redrawing the UI.

Im starting to think it's less a physics issue and more the UI lmao.

Since it's a semi-transparent single canvas UI with layout grids.

All things Unity says not to do, if it can be helped.

The physics engine might moreso be a catalyst than the actual culprit?

I wish there was an easy way to toggle the pool table as game started without the UI.

If so I could disable the UI elements and deploy the world with the game started for the first player. See if that changes anything and by how much.

[rose wolf]

thats what it used to do

[rose wolf]

try making a toggle for the ui and test it out on and off

[open jewel]

Im going to upload a build with the UI elements completely disabled and see what happens lol.

I'll at least know if it's the UI, that way.

If it still tanks, then I'll know it is something else.

[rose wolf]

cross fingers thats it, less work

[open jewel]

UI would be a somewhat easy fix; just separate everything out, make things opaque, etc.

Make sure their everything is still linked to Udon, bada boom, good to go.

If it's just the existence of the physics of everything, or worse, then that is harder to fix.

Side note: Is there a reason the Upload UI is in low res and that the thumbnails are compressed to heck'n'back? Avatar SDK isn't like that.

[rose wolf]

idk, i usually see the game window as a small res, maybe you set your aspect ratio

[open jewel]

It's in free aspect ratio by default. Setting the ratio makes it worse.

I have to "zoom in" to see it.

Also, update: It's 50:50 the UI.

Frames only drop to 60FPS from the 72 when Quest is "maxed out" via adb (high-top foveation, 1024 texture limit, and max level CPU/GPU).

Before it'd hit 45 with these settings.

So, a 17% drop in framerate just looking at the thing is attributable to the table itself.

[rose wolf]

so ui is actually a big factor, who knew

[open jewel]

But that also means where it'd previously go from 45 - 50 to around 20 - 25 (at best 30), optimistically to pessimistically, that's anywhere between a 30% - 60% drop in framerate.

So UI rendering has a bigger hit, baseline.

At best its less than the table, at about 13% drop in frames from UI, but realistically, it's roughly a 28% hit? Guesstimated?

Not quite double the table, but enough to be noticeable.

Which, if UI is laid out in CPU that makes a ton of sense.

(And also could explain the abundance of "f*** it, let's use a blank white cube as a button" if it was causing stuff to lag.)

[rose wolf]

the original table was only a few buttons too so I guess 🤔 thatd make it have a ui advantage

but thats still a big jump

[open jewel]

I mean by default the main UI has a button, a menu, a credits panel, and if you so choose, a log panel.

In game, the menu is hidden but there is a score panel.

And they are all semi-transparent (translucent) material.

[rose wolf]

score panal should be a quad tho?

[open jewel]

It's a UI canvas with a panel for the BG and a bunch of textmeshes.

Side question, @rose wolf: would setting the event camera for the canvas to my reference camera be a good idea, or bad?

Unity seems to say not to set it to the main camera (which Im sure VRC does), but IDK how it'd effect input by creating a specific "event" camera pointed at it.

[rose wolf]

”event camera” im p sure is for screenspace ui

use main cam as reference cam

[open jewel]

Unity says it's for the opposite.

Screen-space - Overlay doesn't take a UI cam, and they explicitly warn that it wont work in VR.

But their docs say it'll make a bunch of unnecessary calls when set to the main cam.

[open jewel]

So for the UI, Ima:

1. Make the menu opaque;
2. Make child canvases;
3. Change default material to something lower than 3000 (2450 seems to work);
4. Disable the info and score panels;
5. Change calls to setActive to GetComponent<Canvas>.enabled;
6. Disable layout grids.

And hope this all improves performance.

[open jewel]

Blegh of course U# is hanging Unity.

Does U# usually cause Unity crashes, or is my poor mac worse off than I thought?

[rose wolf]

usharp should crash unity

id check error log if it consists

persists^

[open jewel]

It's usually after recompiling scripts if it loses focus.

It'll hang unity and 50/50 it crashes.

I think my mac is just dying though. Even with an eGPU...

[open jewel]

This is what I mean BTW

Avatar SDK is not like this.

[rose wolf]

no clue, might be normal, never had it that big b4

[open jewel]

When I set it to 2x zoom it is all pixelated. And my thumbnail looks like trash on the in game loading screen.

@rose wolf so you can only edit physics on custom layers. If you try changing any of the default layer interactions in physics settings the SDK complains about a missing collision matrix and won't build.

[rose wolf]

makes sence, try it out?

[open jewel]

Im not sure what id try out, lol. I'd have to edit the physics of the table, and it'd not save me anything performance wise i'd think.

[rose wolf]

not sure either

oh ye, interaction

[open jewel]

I did mess with physics settings more though. Trying a different broadphase type, and contact generation, as well as a lower solver iteration.

[rose wolf]

did thst effect perf any?

like when hitting a ball

[open jewel]

Im having to rebuild. I tried moving the UI to interactive layer and it broke it lmao

Either that or setting the menu active by default broke it.

(I deleted the activate button)

On the brightside the framerate was still a solid 60 looking at it.

OK so it was the U# the menu isn't "active" even with the game object on,

Threw the power button back in to be safe. Let's see if it works.

🤞

Fudge. I may have broken the table in deleting unwanted UIs

[rose wolf]

crrl Z?

[open jewel]

Im on mac so it'd be "command" :P

I forgot to readd the link to the power button lmao

Luckily I made multiple prefab variations to keep track of changes :P

Hmm. By all accounts the modded table should activate. But... it doesn't. I reset the scripts AND compared the enable button to the working prefab.

Unless the SDK is doing that "not uploading the world file" thing again.

[rose wolf]

thats a common issue on macs.

[open jewel]

But why?

What is going on that the SDK just... forgets the world file?

And how do you fix it beyond recreating the project file?

[rose wolf]

reimport

or try reuploading on a new ID

[open jewel]

Bleugh.

Trying reimport all. No console errors (besides an Udon VM crash) so hopefully Im ok this time.

Gonna give up soon though since im getting drowsy

God the SDK is so jank. Feels like it's held together with bubblegum and ducttape.

Oddly the Avatar SDK is fine in comparison.

Also the API "update" never works and times out lol

I wonder if because mac or because my mac is failing?

[rose wolf]

avatar 3.0 is much more refined and finished in comparison as its just parameters and animations

soooooo, i think it might be the mac cus youre not alone on that issue

[open jewel]

=3=

I bet you the Unity API Updater timing out and the uploads being randomly blank are related.

Why VRC won't update their own SDK in advance is beyond me.

[rose wolf]

they dont natively support mac

[open jewel]

I mean their documentation talks about the "Scripts need to be updated" warning too.

And Unity plugins shouldn't be platform specific if they're native Unity plugins.

It's not that the API doesn't work on Mac it's that the VRCSDK uses APIs that are no longer supported by Unity as of 2019.

It's almost as if SDK3 is just SDK2 with Udon duct-taped on.

Weird that the API updater hangs on Mac tho.

[rose wolf]

sdk 3 is much different compared to sdk2

did uploading on a different world id work?

[open jewel]

I meant moreso version wise. That error message suggests there's some Unity 2018 APIs being called that were removed in 2019.

[open jewel]

It's still reimporting.

Importing U# causes the project to severely hang, as does importing bulk assets.

I wish worlds were as simple as animators and simple triggers.

Let me use a blend tree for a button and call it a day, lol

[rose wolf]

thats kind of how sdk2 world stuff was

but no scripting

[open jewel]

Yeah. That's kinda important, lol.

Animators can only do so much, and some of it is a bit jank itself (clothes toggles).

[rose wolf]

udon is still kind of in dev, its just finished enough to call sdk2 absolete

[open jewel]

I've seen some great stuff done in udon... and some not so great stuff.

Putt Putt seems pretty efficient.

Pool? Not so much.

[rose wolf]

well putt putt had aaaaa lot of time and effort dedicated, where as the pool table was like.... lucky, like you shouldve been here when it appeared

like if i ever had something like 8ball happen to any of my assets, id be extremely mad kind of deal lol

[open jewel]

Really? I only know of, like, 2 proper putt putt worlds on Quest, one being superior functionally but much harder course design wise. The pool table is everywhere (including one of the putt putt worlds).

[open jewel]

Oh?

[rose wolf]

and im pretty chill

[open jewel]

So far from what Ive gathered the OG creator was maybe not a good person and the community elected to fork it? But some design decisions were pretty inefficient, resource wise?

(Rendering glyphs takes forever oh my gawd).

If i had the time and resources Id just rip the Wii Play pool table and make my own using 2D physics and "rollback", lmao. But I don't have that kinda energy (today).

[rose wolf]

there was a lot that happened, technically there was a person before harry thats technically the original that i can’t remember the name of

[rose wolf]

make bowling or something else at that point, pool table is way to popular to just recreate

but anyway, after harrys thing, about 4 branches so far were made, and a 5th that is privately worked on for the realistic physics possible

[open jewel]

I want to make proper Wii Sports Club bowling (not that weird broke one currently up), but billiards was supposed to be my easy "dip my toe in the water to learn the basics" world.

In that regard it is working, but I did NOT realize how unoptimized the pool table became.

[rose wolf]

oh ye no, 8ball is like, advanced quantum calculus to start with as a learning example lol

[open jewel]

"Simple box with a pool table and one baked light. Easy, right?"

[rose wolf]

i do like, well, id look for collision based unity prefabs, not just udon. like for pong for csharp and see how that works. see how it does collision, and go from there

oh, i found the original 8ball link

https://archive.org/details/ht8b.1.8.11

[open jewel]

I played with bowling physics in AltSpace so I got some basics. (Only problem with altspace was how user generated props worked, lmao).

Ahhhh good ol internet archive

Some real gems there

[rose wolf]

ye, you got mre

[open jewel]

I wasn't even using MRE

it was more like, user generated objects could interact with each-other, but physics caused weird things with world physics.

So, like, bowling pins would fall through the world sometimes when knocked over, and you also couldn't script, so they would have to be reset by hand.

[rose wolf]

sounds fun lol

(put big box collider under?)

[open jewel]

Problem was that the pins were generated individually, and the issue was with object colliders clipping the ground mesh collider in ALVR due to physics causing weird behavior.

So a collider beneath the pins made no difference. They still clipped, lol.

ALVR in itself is like jank Microsoft VRChat, so eh lol

I cant be a goat in ASVR either. :|

Is there a better way to generate font meshes in Unity?

This is taking forever even on the eGPU.

I started, like, 10 minutes ago.

(Technically restarted, after forcing Unity to use my eGPU to see if that would speed it up).

[violet forum]

anyone kno anything about a thirdparty occluder that works better than the default unity occlusion culling

[pallid gale]

you wouldn't be abl e to use it because no runtime c-sharp code in vrchat

[open jewel]

Have you tried occlusion zones and baking occlusion for static objects?

[violet forum]

nothing to fancy with my setups. any tutorials for it?

[open jewel]

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

Occlusion areas: reduces size of occlusion data by only baking inside the area.

Static Occluder: Object that may appear in front of other objects (Large objects/furniture/terrain/structures)

Static Occludee: Object that can be obscured by other objects (small objects/furniture/etc.)

Baking occlusion is for static objects. E.G. things that don't move. Similar to lightbaking!

[violet forum]

thank u! ill give this a try

[open jewel]

I didn't know about it till just yesterday myself, but it's very useful information! From the sounds of it. dynamic occlusion should only be used on interactive objects or objects which move.

(Just as with lightmapping, you don't want to lightmap an interactive object!)

Also note occlusion only effects visuals; if your object is doing any kind of calculations or processing (physics n such), disabling it when not in view would be optimal.

[dusty ermine]

I’m making a vrchat world and I converted it from pc to quest, but on quest, some of the textures are clipping through each other and shaking. I’m very new to making worlds, what can I do to make this stop happening?

[dusty ermine]

I’m going to bed now so please ping me if you have an answer

Thanks in advance

[solemn tapir]

Two main things.

1: your world is too far from 0:0:0. You should always try and keep your geometry as close to the zero point of the world as possible. The further you go from zero, the more you'll induce float point errors. The distance the quest can handle before things fall apart is much shorter than PC.

2: your near and far clip on your reference camera is set too wide. If you have a large world, and set an increased far clip, this alone can induce float point errors. The quest needs to have a fairly narrow clip plane range. You can hide the far clip by adding fog, as fog is very cheap and will make the far clip less aggressive visually.

It's most likely one or both of those.

[dusty ermine]

In that case I’ll add some volumetric fog tomorrow and move everything closer to 0:0:0, I do have a pretty large world so that would make sense

Thanks

[pallid gale]

hopefully that goes okay moving everything closer to 0:0:0

[open jewel]

So THAT'S why textures do that weird glitch thing from a distance. I'd never thought of that.

But it makes complete sense.

[dusty ermine]

Yeah before I got pcvr I noticed that in large worlds like test pilots it would glitch as I went farther from spawn and now I know why

[jade pond]

So I'm new to world building and I've built a super small world that's on 33 MB, but people still lag and lose frames like crazy in it, am I missing some steps beyond texture compression, baking occlusion and lighting, etc?

[versed lichen]

Do you use mesh colliders ?

[jade pond]

Yes I do

Do those lower frames @versed lichen ?

[versed lichen]

If they're put on high polygon meshes, absolutely

[jade pond]

Oh no

You may have just solved my issue, blessings

[versed lichen]

[pallid gale]

yeah basically try to replace everything with box colliders and you can use multiple box colliders on a mesh if you need a little bit more of a complicated shape like a chair or a doorway

[civic rapids]

hello

i have been trying to create my first map, i made a test using i asset i had from a previous project

im havign soem weird jittering and frame drops when i look at trees

also trees have some kind of weird aura aroud them

any suggestions?

no looking at trees i ge 45+ fps

droping to 20 when they are in close view

[pallid gale]

do the trees have lods setup and maybe something is weird with the Shader you using that makes the outline

[civic rapids]

hmmm

i dont think so

[pallid gale]

then it might be rendering lots of stuff on the screen at once if it's rendering those trees at full fidelity

[civic rapids]

im a total noob on this thing

i have rly limited unity experience

but shouldnt LOD kinda make it lighter?

my tree objects have soem LOD

[pallid gale]

good to know it has LOD

not sure if it would solve it but probably good to look into occlusion culling so you're not rendering as much https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/OcclusionCulling.html

[civic rapids]

i think it maybe the wind thing

[pallid gale]

yeah I suppose that wouldn't hurt to turn it off for Diagnostic purposes

[civic rapids]

kk

[void cipher]

What is a good count for drawcalls?

My new world is around 800?

[twilit atlas]

that's a lot
depends on the world
200 can quite much for a small world (one room)

i would aim for about 100 in most visible segments
also consider setpass calls

open worlds with worse culling will end up with often a lot more batches and setpasses

[void cipher]

Its a multiroom house with a shit ton of furniture.

How could I optimize it?

[open jewel]

Well, have you baked culling data?

[void cipher]

Nope. I've never optimized on the game engine level before.

[open jewel]

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

That should go over the basics.

The gists are:

Occlusion areas: Set areas where Unity generates occlusion data; — Anything outside them are not baked. (This cuts down on occlusion file size.)

Static Occluder: Static objects which may obscure other objects (Walls, floors, large furniture)

Static Occludee: Static objects which may be obscured (furniture, props, misc. objects). — Some objects will be both!

Baking occlusion from the occlusion tab/window, once your occluders and occludees are configured, will give unity better knowledge on how to occlude parts of you world.

—
You could also in theory set up "zones" to disable game objects for each room entirely, locally, based on some kind of collision trigger system (I.E. when player is near "door a" enable "room a" object; when player enters "hallway" outside of "door a" disable "room a" object).

Though exactly how would be a bit beyond my knowledge.

All this would at least help with reducing draws on things that are not needed at the moment.

There may be more pertinent things you could do.

I just know good culling is a basic first step.

[pallid gale]

like putting your non tiling textures on a texture Atlas so more stuff to be combined together

like in normal video games everything is individual textures because the asset can be arranged in many different levels and be loaded in and out but on vrchat you pretty much have everything only in one configuration and like everything loaded as far as the vram

[open jewel]

@rose wolf figured out why they moved to 3D physics on the pool table. Unity 2D physics use XY coordinate spave but for a pool table you'd be using XZ coordinates in 3D space. Apparently this is much to the chagrin of many people too (especially for 3D games with navigation or top-down aspects).

All the results Ive found so far about using Unity 2D Physics with XZ coordinates say "why would you? It's only 30% more efficient. Just use 3D" (which in the case of VRChat & Quest, 30% is the difference between buttery smooth and a potato, lmao).

Forgive me if pinging is rude. Just thought you might find further observations of my madness in getting a quest efficient pool setup going interesting.

Looks like if I want to use 2D physics ima have to:

1. Translate the force/momentum between 3D objects and a separate 2d counterpart.

or

2. Just don't. :\

[shrewd harbor]

Anyone with experience with MeshBaker? Google-fu has been failing me, and I've spent more time than I care to admit trying to get it to work. The actual mesh baking works just fine, but the atlas'd texture just tiles on everything instead of applying the way it should.

[gentle gust]

maybe wrong UV?

i bake my textures directly with blender, works fine for me, just dont forget to change the UV later to the correct one

[shrewd harbor]

It's definitely something UV related, but I've had no luck fixing it... Mesh Baker is /supposed/ to do this as part of the baking process, just no idea

I have other optimization tools that bake the mesh without atlasing, but it doesn't seem to change the GPU/CPU frametime at all (or it'll make it worse)

[gentle gust]

i never even heard of meshbaker before tbh, i just do everything in blender directly

might be worth checking out

does meshbaker create a seperate UV on the object or does it modify the existing one?

[shrewd harbor]

I need to get into working with Blender, but I'm not there yet. That being said, it'd solve so many issues I'm having working in Unity directly

It should be creating a new, separete UV

[gentle gust]

cuz you could try the swap UVs function in the mesh import settings

[shrewd harbor]

No bueno, I think I might just be boned for my existing worlds. I'll need to bite the bullet and commit to learning blender properly if I want to get my GPU frametime down

[gentle gust]

yea, might be your best shot

i learned most of blender stuff within a few weeks tho

its not too bad

[shrewd harbor]

That's not too bad

And it's not like my existing worlds are unplayable, but they're only good for 90 FPS with a handful of people in them

[gentle gust]

when you test with others, it highly depends on their avatars as well

[shrewd harbor]

True

[jade pond]

Ok so compressed textures, baked lighting and occlusion, replaced all mesh colliders with box colliders, world is 33 mb. People are STILL dying in my world. And it’s not just frame rate. Some people are getting crashed. Can someone pls tell me what I’m missing here?

It’s a simple world with a hot tub and a bar. It’s the tiniest world ever. Yet ppl keep dying in it

[versed lichen]

Show the game tab with Stats enabled ?

[jade pond]

How do I do that?

[versed lichen]

By clicking the game tab next to the scene tab, and the Stats button on the top right corner of that window

[versed lichen]

That is pretty heavy yeah

[jade pond]

What specifically is heavy that needs to be changed?

[versed lichen]

The high batch count could indicate that you have a lot of separate objects, not batching or dynamically instanced, which should maybe be merged together depending on their purpose, and that something in your scene is making it even more expensive like a realtime light or a depth buffer

[jade pond]

So separate meshes and objects is a problem? Most everything in my world is a separate 3d model I imported in. Is there any easy way to combine these meshes without Blender, cuz Idk how to use that yet

Or is it as simple as dragging and dropping different objects into each other in my scene Hierarchy?

[versed lichen]

That would either require exporting to blender or relying on an asset from the unity store like this one https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/modeling/mesh-combine-studio-2-101956

[jade pond]

Ok so I bought that tool, and first step it says to 'disable static batching', any idea where I do that?

[versed lichen]

top right corner of any object inspector tab

[jade pond]

Ok, any idea what amount of batching would be stable for a vrchat world? I currently just got it down to 498

[pallid gale]

glad you were able to cut it in half

[versed lichen]

For a 30mb world it shouldn't go over 100 tbh

[pallid gale]

question does that tool do texture combining or would that need to be done beforehand

[jade pond]

Not sure. When I run Cyan Emu the batches seem to range between 70-200. Is that a sustainable level?

[pallid gale]

have you set up occlusion culling for them after combining

[jade pond]

Yes I did

[pallid gale]

cool

[jade pond]

Regardless I realize that there's probably a lot more to do, but should I see a significant betterment of stability in the world now that I've gotten batches down from 950 to 300?

[pallid gale]

yeah that would probably help

[jade pond]

Ok coolness

[versed lichen]

70-200 is alright

[jade pond]

I'm noticing that the beer dispensers prefab makes the batches go up in game

[pallid gale]

yes because it's generating more stuff

[jade pond]

Ok I see, that's interesting. It's significant tho, like 100 more batches

[pallid gale]

oh dear

maybe disable that while you're figuring out what to optimize so that you can more easily find the hotspots of too many batches of static stuff?

[amber cairn]

so i'm making one last world before i go back to college, the world is almost done except the world is 100Mb!!! it doesn't have a lot of texture or items but its still humongous. Is there a way for me to atlas my textures in unity? i want the world to be 45mb or less

[pallid gale]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit this has a tool that lets you apply crunch compression to all of your textures on the map and tell you what's taking up file size

[amber cairn]

Thanks!

[amber cairn]

its down to 25Mb thanks to you

[pallid gale]

awesome

[twilit atlas]

the tool combines meshes with same materials but it does not create combined materials

[quartz brook]

Some question, if I want to make a 3D Text on wall, Should I use Mapping (bump map) only or just model it right away?

I feel it is already too much tris even I had adjusted a lot in blender (2000 tris)

[quartz brook]

expect a possible use in Quest, btw

[twilit atlas]

2k tris is nothing

[quartz brook]

I mean, something like this using 1.4K tris

[twilit atlas]

well, it depends what you intend to do with it, 1.4k is really not gonna be the bottleneck of the scene

[quartz brook]

Just a meeting space that can use with quest

I expect no games, no big udon effects

[twilit atlas]

i mostly meant, is this a 3d font effect?

[quartz brook]

No, just a still

Like something you will see in office front desk

[gentle gust]

why not use tmp?

[quartz brook]

tmp?

I still new on unity, what is that

[twilit atlas]

textmeshpro

[quartz brook]

noted

[twilit atlas]

it's pretty much a good way to construct texts within unity using fonts

[quartz brook]

So not using blender, got it

[north sparrow]

Are video players much of a hit to performance in a world? Like would it genuinely be worth making a toggle for it for optimization reasons in a world if I only have 2?

[untold apex]

yes. the docs even strongly recommend you don't have more than one video player

[north sparrow]

I didn't see anything in the docs about more than one video player being bad, just that you would have to account for syncing issues for late joiners.

Wasn't sure if there were any performance related issues to multiple video players like lag and such since I didn't see anything about that in the docs.

[solemn tapir]

Yes. You shouldn't have more than one playing video player. You can have multiple, but having more than one running can impact performance. It's best to just have those on area triggers anyways as there's no reason to run logic when nobody is around. If you have one player for background music and one for global watching, you can set it up to locally disable your background music player while the global player is in use by people.

[north sparrow]

I gotcha. What I'm doing is essentially just mirroring the main display up to the second floor area. There aren't any video controls up top as the top video player is playing the exact same thing/synced up with the downstairs TV that has the controls and settings. They're also set up with occlusion culling so that they are not rendered if they aren't being seen, but the sound from the TV is global and always playing even if it is occluded.

Is having it just as a secondary display with no actual logic or controls occurring with the second TV going to cause performance issues, or should the way I have them set up be fine?

[solemn tapir]

A single player can have as many screens as you want assuming you're reusing the material/render texture. You'll still want to disable those extra screens with area triggers or some form of culling though so people aren't rendering additional screens which cause additional draw calls, but you won't have extra overhead from running multiple screens outside of draw calls.

Main issues with multiple players is multiple running logic, and multiple hits to bandwidth among a few other things. A single player with multiple screens won't have these issues.

[north sparrow]

Awesome! That's what I was hoping to hear and it sounds like I have it set up correctly for optimal performance then! I appreciate the help!

[jade pond]

Ok so I've used the MeshCombineStudio and now all my static items are in a singular mesh, but my batches are still at 299. Any idea how to get that lower?

[pallid gale]

if you have multiple materials on your object it's going to take up however many materials it is in draw calls

and also literally all static items together makes it to where you can't do any occlusion culling

[jade pond]

I'm noticing when I toggle the QvPen system off it takes 70 batches off the world? Is it supposed to be that large?

I have pens and beer dispensers, and when I turn them off I get 95 batches. Why are they so big?

[solemn tapir]

Each pen is two materials + the material for the actual line renderer. Your beer dispenser is probably also multiple materials.

And yea, merging everything inside of unity may not be the best idea. You can no longer cull items individually and you can't adjust the compression of the meshes anymore. Also can't really batch things because it's all one massive mesh.

[jade pond]

Is there a way to make them more optimized?

[solemn tapir]

Reduce the material count rendered at any given time

[pallid gale]

https://github.com/z3y/vertex-color-pens

apparently these use a heck of a lot less materials

[solemn tapir]

I mean, i personally just reduced the pens to a single material slot in blender so there is a single material covering all the pens that can use GPU instancing. Also didn't need every pen so use less. Change the pen ink material so it's not a ton of different colors but rather a select few or the same pen ink for all pens.

Thing is, if you just download and mash in random prefabs without customization you're gonna have a bad time. This is how people end up with 20+ different fonts being used and a ton of different materials, uncompressed textures, etc etc. Lol

[pallid gale]

yeah that would also work was just suggesting that alternative prefab has that's less work to grab a different prefab

but yeah definitely good to know how to optimize prefabs

[cinder tusk]

Is there a general step by step guide anyway for finding performance hogs in your world? I'm trying to go through the Unity profiling tools but its hard to work out what information is important

And what is 'too many' of any one particular thing

[pallid gale]

draw calls are good spot to check as having less of those are good

[cinder tusk]

Yes, but how many is too many? X)

Like, apparently I have... 484 Batches, 296 SetPass Calls?

[pallid gale]

there's different factors that affect that like if you're targeting pc-only or if you wanted to be cross-compatible

[cinder tusk]

PC Only for this one

But I've tested it on my high-end system and its... struggles

but I'm unsure of cause

It seems fine in local mode

err.. desktop

But in headset, its 'okay'. Turn on a mirror or take out the camera or worse, both. And goodnight

[pallid gale]

yes as both of those basically render everything again

[cinder tusk]

yup

So I need to get basic world performance up

[pallid gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUALbgztU5Y if it helps it's also common practice to have two mirrors that you can toggle one of them being the high-quality mirror that renders everything and a lower-quality one that only renders the avatars

and it also helps if your mirrors aren't like pointed in a direction that has it rendering lots of stuff

out of curiosity what kind of map are you trying to make

and question are you using baked lighting @cinder tusk

[cinder tusk]

This is base performance of the world without mirrors.

Yes, all lighting is baked, though I do have a dynamic sun light because I want shadows from that.

[pallid gale]

okay just figured I'd check have you done any occlusion culling

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

[cinder tusk]

Yup, also done that, hold up, I may have found on material being unusually expensive

[pallid gale]

what kind of material is it

I suppose you could try changing that Shader to a cheaper one to see if it helps

[quasi jewel]

I'm having major lag on PC. The odd thing g is that it was working fine yesterday and all I did was move a few things.

[edgy wyvern]

https://gyazo.com/d416dbc402b058b229e9308f0692c03d
I can't upload my world, i keep clicking upload and it just... doesn't

the world works perfectly fine when testing it

[twilit atlas]

check console for errors

[edgy wyvern]

what does this mean

[misty olive]

I have a question about how Unity groups static objects with the same materials , how exactly does Unity recognize that it is the same object? Because I'm building my scene in Blender instead of Unity, would those objects still be optimized in the same way?

[agile hawk]

Static batching works on material level. So it'll always batch the same material together as long as the meshes fulfill the requirements and the shader is set to batch. You find info with this on https://docs.unity3d.com/2021.2/Documentation/Manual/static-batching.html

If you're wondering about GPU instancing, it works on mesh level and it needs to be the same mesh file with the same material.

(I.e; GPU instancing "copies" and Static Batching groups)

[misty olive]

@agile hawk
Bringing things in on the same material will help with static batching. If the scene is one (completely unpacked) object coming from one mesh file (.FBX), does it also allow for GPU instancing?

[twilit atlas]

gpu instancing is very limited in tris count

static batching can break easily, different lightmaps or different reflection probes for example

[misty olive]

There are some nice things about building in blender, but it's not worth it if that means sacrificing the end result with optimization. So I was wondering about that.

[twilit atlas]

the frame debugger will give you insight

[misty olive]

Thanks 💙

[edgy wyvern]

I haven't gotten an answer

[misty olive]

@edgy wyvern I don't know what it is specifically, but could it be a component that is trying to reference an object and its empty?

[untold apex]

that's typically what causes the error. a component is looking for something to be dragged into a slot, and there's nothing there.

[static junco]

Managed to upload my first world the other day. I'm still new to VRChat to make it public, but hey at least it works. That said, I do see that it is fairly bloated in terms of download size for what I have going on in it. Anyone know of any general guides to help reduce world file sizes and the like?

[versed lichen]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit/releases

[north sparrow]

Can normal maps be atlased onto a canvas of normal maps to optimize multiple items into one material? Or does that mess up their functionality?

[pallid gale]

perfectly fine to put normal maps on a Atlas as long as it has the same layout as your color Atlas

[edgy wyvern]

oh

how could i find it

[onyx portal]

Do i need to optimize for quest if I only intend to use PCVR and not the standalone quest? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. I don't currently have a quest but will get on in the near future

[pallid gale]

will you be using that quest in future Standalone or hooked up to a gaming PC

[north sparrow]

awesome thank ya!

[pallid gale]

and yeah definitely a good idea to put you're non tiling texture items into a atlas so it uses less draw calls

[edgy wyvern]

this is the problem. i don't have any of these

how do i get this stuff???????

[misty olive]

From what they are saying it looks like they are getting a quest headset, but only intend to use it for PCVR

[misty olive]

I just realized what it could be, maybe when you delete textures to materials it gets confused.

[edgy wyvern]

oh

how do i fix it then

[misty olive]

i wish i knew

[onyx portal]

my gaming pc

[pallid gale]

then it's optional to worry about Quest optimization

[north sparrow]

Yeppers. I have 15 fish with AI on them wandering around in a fish tank (actually 28 total, but they are using GPU instancing so the repeats aren't more calls) and they all have separate textures/normal maps. I wanted to tweak the scripts for the AI to get them to move well before I optimized them so I wasn't optimizing in vein haha. Ended up getting them working, so now I'm going to tile them on a canvas so I can get all of the fish to be one draw call.

I have no idea how unoptimized rigid bodies are, but there is definitely a notable performance hit with the fish. Hoping most of that is from the additional draw calls and not the rigid bodies.

That's honestly something I'd like to know. Does anyone know how much a performance impact rigid bodies are in a world?

They are being used to control the physics of fish wandering around in an aquarium and I was wondering how scalable that would be if the fish were optimized to one drawcall because they share a material. What would be a feasible limit to how many fish you could have before really affecting performance?

[desert widget]

hey, I cant seem to be able to upload my avatar world for PC but i can for quest, can someone help me? Do I have to optimize it and how, is this the right chat to ask this question?

[lilac saddle]

I've set up occlusion volumes around my world and am using the default occlusion baking settings; however, objects in view still continue to flicker. What are some of the potential causes of this?

[solemn tapir]

The default settings are most likely not sufficient for most VRChat content. Especially when considering the size of most avatars. You may want to bake with smaller values, or use Editor Only objects as your only Occluders so that your actual world meshes aren't set to be occluder. Also ensure that you're manually setting objects to be either an occludee or an occluder, don't just check the "static" box and call it a day. Many objects shouldn't be set as occluders and many objects shouldn't be set as occludees, manually setting which is which will lead to better results and often smaller file size impact. That all said, using Editor Only objects as your only occluders tends to lead to the best results as you can place these objects further away from your actual meshes (such as inbetween walls) which allows for better settings and smaller file size from not needing to use smaller values.

[lilac saddle]

is there quest optimized pens actually? I figured that since it uses animtrails it would be performance hungry by design but I might be wrong? 👁️

[blissful wasp]

Hey, I recently "updated" one of my worlds to use color based lighting instead of skybox/point/directional lights
And on Quest it looks fine in the mirror but everything else isn't lit up at all
Do I need to update it to 2019 or?

[pallid gale]

yeah probably stuff would work better on 2019 Unity but I don't know if that would solve your problem

[gentle gust]

baked lights o real time lighs?

also what mirror layers are active?

[blissful wasp]

Neither

[void leaf]

Hi sorry I’m new

Im trying to upload a world but Im wondering if I make it for pc then does it make it not visible for quest users ?

Im not understanding

[rose wolf]

youll upload it twice, once on the pc build in unity, and once on the android version of unity

[soft zodiac]

my world has barely anything in it and it's crashing my quest when i even try to join it meanwhile a lot more rich and demanding worlds exist and they never crash my quest whatsoever, does someone know what am i even doing wrong that's causing quest to struggle so badly loading my world?

its just a simple room with an avatar display

and the only laggy thing in it is the mirrors but they're off all the time and they perform as good as any other typical world, nothing wrong with them

theres also 3 lamps which don't lag either

so i don't understand how people make huge worlds that don't lag but here i am with my little world literally destroying the quest

on pc and quest it works no problem, it's always smooth and doesn't lag

but the quest has some serious issues joining that world and it just crashes when i get in the world or when im at the loading screen before even the thumbnail appears

(please ping once someone responds since i want to know when someone responds)

[earnest scroll]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/937099205753843723/938764887205765200/unknown.png

how i fix this problem

[earnest scroll]

I did all the optimizing methods and only 10mb dropped

[solemn tapir]

Quest is limited to 100mb. You need to reduce the file size of your world. Things that can take up space are

Uncompressed Textures (Use Crunch)
too much audio
Too small of values for Occlusion Culling
Too many things batching
uncompressed FBXs or meshes
Too high of poly of meshes
Multiple font files
Too high of settings for Baked lighting

among other things. Basically, too much stuff and that stuff isn't compressed.

[earnest scroll]

dude i got this error when i was making pc world not quest world

Im use this sdk

[earnest scroll]

Even if I don't make a world for the quest, I have compressed the files as much as I can, but nothing has changed, it still says over 100 mb. I don't have any intention of making a quest world. I get this error when making a normal pc world.

[solemn tapir]

That error is only shown when you are attempting to upload a world with your build target set to Android. Post a screenshot of your entire Unity Editor.

[earnest scroll]

Sure

[acoustic bay]

Mostly curious on this one, is it better to have more separate meshes for view culling? or to have most things combined

[frigid iron]

You’ll gain more from having bigger meshes be split up, if you have a 5m wall and your only looking at 1m of it, it’ll still render the 5m wall, if you split it up into 2 or 5 sections, it’ll only have to render the 2.5m or 1m section your looking at

[quartz brook]

Noob stuff

Is there solution that some avatars can see through the walls?
Robo ver.2 did have that glitch, most model don’t

[obtuse bear]

On the avatar descriptor, put the camera not near the eyes, but a little further from the face.

But there will be some problems with the avatar.

[quartz brook]

I mean in World, not avatar

I just don't want some avatar to see through

[obtuse bear]

Half of the players with mods for which any world settings are useless. I wouldn't waste time on this.

And so, thick walls and occlusion can help.

[quartz brook]

I know the mod issue, but since my world is not public (mostly invite+/invite) so that's not a big issue,

But I can't make thick wall due to already modeled and textured in blender, just found the issue in teting

[obtuse bear]

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/OcclusionCulling.html Well then, at least make an occlusion. Well, and it's good for performance.

[quartz brook]

So wonder if it is possible to restrict the voice chat in the specified area of room? (which mean only people there can hear it)

[obtuse bear]

https://github.com/Guribo/UdonAudioTools But I have not tested how it works I will not say. People say it works.

[quartz brook]

Thanks!

[quartz brook]

Still not solved, I know probably too thin but most avatars won't go through
Robo 2.0 can see through however

The wall is 0.15m btw

[untold apex]

is the issue that some avatars can stick their head through the wall? you could try using larger colliders to prevent this, though it's going to be hard to find an amount of padding that would work for any avatar

[quartz brook]

Yes

but still not figure out how to set up area in Occlusion Culling

[pallid gale]

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

[quartz brook]

Nvm, I will just use udon or else block too large avatars in

[timid oak]

I have a problem with the world I made, when the number of players increases, the frame rate drops a lot. It wouldn't be the same in other worlds, and I don't know what caused it.

I used occlusion culling, light probes, reflection probes, etc. optimizations, and only had one sun as a hybrid light source, baked the lighting.

The number of frames is about 70 when single player, 50 frames when two players, and about 40 when three players.

[twilit atlas]

do you cast player shadows? any udon components?

[timid oak]

yes, only sun cast shadows, but only illuminates the scene.

I have use lots of udon components

Is that too much?

[twilit atlas]

casting shadows is very expensive and it may get even worse if each avatar has a lot of materials

it's more about what or how you use udon

[timid oak]

The sun is set to only illuminates on Default.

[twilit atlas]

i thought your world is baked

[timid oak]

Yes

[twilit atlas]

why would your directional light then illuminate anything
it should solely cast shadows
also make a toggle for it

what udon assets do you use?

[timid oak]

I tried to use a dynamic sun to light the outdoor scene, the world main body is indoor, the indoor light is baked

And also switchs, chairs are used

[twilit atlas]

why aren't you just baking the outdoor as well?
there is a lot of stuff in your scene for sure

[timid oak]

Because the sun changes according to real time

I've tried turning off the sun to see if that's the main reason for the framerate drop, but it doesn't seem to be

I am going to try again now.

Will AKSwitch cause massive framerate drops?

[tawdry harness]

tis keeps poping up wheneverr i try to bake with a gpu, cpu baking just takes so long. Any ideas how to fix?

or any settings I should leave on or off to prevent it to automatically choosing cpu baking?

[versed lichen]

Sounds like something to google directly, given we have no idea what your hardware is like

[nimble mortar]

Could someone explain occlusion culling more? I am using this https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling and it says I can make big occluder cubes but I don't really understand what it means

[versed lichen]

It's shown in the image below that

[nimble mortar]

so I just make walls that are occluder right outside my normal walls and it will work?

[versed lichen]

The point is to not use your meshes, but unity cubes

[pallid gale]

I take it because the unity cubes are simpler so easier occlusion calculations?

[versed lichen]

Well, they're also cubes, which leaves no place for inaccuracy

[nimble mortar]

well I'm confused because if I put a wall up and turn on visibility lines, they shouldn't go through the wall right?

like for example

I setup a big wall

and the stuff behind it is still showing

camera is on left

plane is the thing to the right of the wall

occludee and all but still nothing

[twilit atlas]

ensure the wall is occluder static
then rebake occlusion culling

[tawdry harness]

a

thank youi for the asnwer anyways!!

[barren rapids]

What's the best way to do world shadows with a moving light source (like a sun that can be dragged around the sky)? Is it possible to like have the shadows bake during runtime if the sun stops moving? Or does that happen automatically on a gpu level?

[versed lichen]

Shadows are baked in Unity, otherwise it's all realtime

[fringe terrace]

Question i wanna ask, see the main camera in unity what would happen if you turned down the view distance?

[solemn tapir]

Then you'd reduce the far clipping plane of the camera which would not render anything past that. This can be hidden by using fog, which is a common use for fog.

[fringe terrace]

Ye cause i have map I ripped from a game which has a huge performance problem on quest

[solemn tapir]

[barren rapids]

Oh so you can affect the player camera ingame by modifying the main camera in unity?

[nimble mortar]

I did 😦

would someone be able to help me with occlusion culling? working on a world and for some reason I can't get it working even with this guide https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

[nimble mortar]

Making a world currently, outside area in first pic is 130-140 fps, second picture when I’m looking at the middle is 50 fps? Any ideas why that might be?

I tried turning off the lights, the whole main booth, only thing that slightly helped was turning off everything outside such as the coral, fish, seaweed and rocks but even then it went to 60-70

[nimble mortar]

no advice? 😢

[pallid gale]

there's not enough useful data we can have with just those screenshots we would need to see the actual render stats to give any meaningful advice

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/RenderingStatistics.html

[nimble mortar]

like unity profiler?

[pallid gale]

yes I just linked the tool

[nimble mortar]

ah ok sec

this is at spawn

this is the area that I am getting 45 fps

[pallid gale]

well from the looks of it you seem to have some sort of real-time lights going to be casting those Shadows

so what happens to your frame time if you turn off the pool table and the table with the cups?

[nimble mortar]

Ill try that and send the updates results, I have 4 realtime lights bc it's supposed to be like a club area

[pallid gale]

and there's your problem you shouldn't have any real-time lights as they're quite expensive to run compared to baked lighting

honestly for comparison point you should probably leave the pool tables and turn off all the lights and check the framerate

[nimble mortar]

so this is without the lights on

and this is without the beer pong and pool table

[pallid gale]

then what the heck is casting the Shadows if you turned off all the lights

[nimble mortar]

idk

[pallid gale]

and looking over your screenshot again that could absolutely be baked lighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKgUJccjWRU

[nimble mortar]

baked lighting could be shadows casters?

[pallid gale]

nope baked lighting doesn't have any shadowcasters

[nimble mortar]

oh

found out what it is

uh

[pallid gale]

so what's causing all those shadowcasters

[nimble mortar]

I have a day/night cycle going

[pallid gale]

honestly I wouldn't recommend that as that's kind of performance intensive

[nimble mortar]

could that really bc causing that?

[pallid gale]

yes if it has Shadows that move with the time of day that's going to be causing shadowcasters

so honestly I would suggest turning off the day-night cycle as well to framerate check

and honestly given the way the inside of your Club looks you're not going actually benefit from the day-night cycle

also having five real-time lights is probably going to murder your frame rate it once you actually have a decent amount of avatars in the map

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Light-Baking

https://i.gyazo.com/4a0e40da1743f5923e7be23f49014a0a.png

[nimble mortar]

funny thing is

[nimble mortar]

I just made a toggle in the world for the day/night prefab and turning it off I still have that 45 frames in the center

[pallid gale]

good to know

[nimble mortar]

what else could I check?

I mean funny enough is that I have another world that is way bigger and runs better from the start but this world is giving me issues

no idea why

[nimble mortar]

only have beer pong, cards, pool table, day/night cycle, audio link stuff

I even made a toggle in the world to test what might be causing it and the only thing that semi helped was disabling the stuff outside the glass? (coral,rocks,fish and seaweed)

[pallid gale]

do any of those have complicated shaders on them?

[nimble mortar]

how would I know if it was a shader that could be causing a issue like that

[pallid gale]

not quite sure off the top of my head but I suppose you could try swapping all the materials to the vrchat mobile standard light Shader and see if that does anything?

sorry I don't have much better suggestions

[nimble mortar]

the plants have that?

[pallid gale]

doesn't look especially complicated but I wouldn't know for sure without looking at the code

[nimble mortar]

trying standard with it rn

this is with them all standard

[pallid gale]

definitely an improvement on CPU time?

and FPS

[nimble mortar]

u think so?

[pallid gale]

well yeah the numbers are different comparing the two screenshots

340 fps vs 272 fps

[magic brook]

does object count matter if they all share the same material?

[versed lichen]

Depends on GPU instancing requirements

[magic brook]

thinking about a cutout image something like grass that always faces the camera like a billboard

[molten nova]

Vegetation Engine looks great.....

Totally kidding, does anyone have any knowledge or experience with getting it to work properly? Says its compatible with UDRP so not entirely sure if thats something that'd work with VRC

[molten nova]

Ended up opting for Silent's Crispy Foliage shader! Really nice too because it has a UV Y position adjustment for wind pinning!

[sage mountain]

Does Occlusion culling work with avatars and do avatars still load in the background or is there some way to optimize that too

[twilit atlas]

occlusion culling only relates to visual appearance and is not related to loading

dynamic objects are occluded as well, but not as reliably

[sage mountain]

is there a way to stop avatar loading from the world

[twilit atlas]

what are you trying to do?

[sage mountain]

i would like to make some private rooms in my world and I want them to perform well

[twilit atlas]

and no, they will load as long as your safety settings allow

[sage mountain]

damn this should be a feature

because then i can check if the avatar is inside a box, and only load avatars inside that box

[twilit atlas]

make a private instance if you don't want other players

[sage mountain]

yes i know but what if i want to just hop on and out of private rooms

[lilac saddle]

am i the person without a major comprehension issue

in this entire discord

[twilit atlas]

they won't render
just load

[sage mountain]

yes but still it takes up a bunch of ram and resources

also it hits you when you join the world, as it starts downloading all of them at once

[solemn tapir]

If your world is using Occlusion culling, and the rooms are separated by solid occluders, dynamic meshes will be culled, which includes the meshes of pickups as well as avatars. The avatar itself will still load into peoples memory, and dynamic bones and DB Collision checks will still be performed, but they will not render the mesh of the avatar if it's occluded by a solid occluder. But Occlusion culling has it's own cpu overhead and file size impact so if your only use for it is this, it may not be ideal. But if you're already using it, then it will indeed cull the mesh of avatars that are occluded. Note you can tag large solid walls (such as giant cubes) as Editor Only and set it as an occluder such that your private rooms are wrapped by Editor Only occluders instead of using the mesh of the room itself which will result in better quality occlusion, especially with small avatars that would normally be very close to the mesh of the room.

[sage mountain]

yes i was thinking about using a separate cube thats larger than the room as occlusion cull mesh

would be cool if we could restrict avatars from loading

[solemn tapir]

I mean you're still not rendering it.

[sage mountain]

yes but the client has to download them, and then load them into ram which takes up valuable resources

imagine a cinema world where you would have like 5 different rooms with screens, all of them isolated from each other and culled, and you would have 12 people in each room for example

the video will be the same across all rooms, (thats the reason its in the same world)

the client will have to download 48 extra avatars for no reason

or what if i want to make an amusement park world, large enough to spread 30 players apart so much that it would feel pretty lonely

having more players per world solves the issue, but it introduces a huge resource waste due to all avatars being loaded at all time

[solemn tapir]

That's what the safety settings are for.... People self manage these systems because people have a wide range of hardware. It also doesn't take that much memory, most avatars are like 1-15mb, which 48 avatars worst case is like under a gb assuming a user chooses to load everyone's avatar in a high pop world which most don't. Most users probably have at least 16gb of ram, 8gb is getting pretty rare now a days and practically unusable in many ways with windows. hell, bad avatars are like 100mb, which is a pretty shit avatar, but even that would be like under 5gb again assuming you actually aren't using safety which most do use safety.

The biggest impact to performance avatars have currently are Dynamic Bones, DB Collision checks, and the additional draw calls the rendering of the meshes have. Safety covers all of these, however as a world designer, you can also ensure that users who choose to have everyone downloaded and loose safety, at least aren't rendering meshes that "could" be occluded.

Your world would have to have absurdly high memory usage for this to be of any concern and at that point, it would be down to bad world design.

tldr. Your concern really isn't one. Use the profiler, use proper world design and ensure the lowest overhead possible through the lowest draw calls, through batching, and ensuring your frustrum is clear. xP

[sage mountain]

safety settings are great, but having to manually enable everyone in the same room is bothersome. they just dont really work when you are in a lobby where everyone else is a trusted user

[solemn tapir]

There's a custom safety setting option. and you can toggle to different settings, rather than manually choose each user

[sage mountain]

i know, the world would be optimized, i'm just saying that this would be a mega useful feature in my opinion and there is no reason for it to not to be added

[sage mountain]

i want to be able to freely join one of the isolated parts of the map and have all the avatars in there be fully loaded and functional

[solemn tapir]

Forcing a user to load avatars would bypass safety and be a bad idea....

[sage mountain]

you are misunderstanding

[solemn tapir]

I mean I get it, But safety settings and there's no point because it's not that much memory anyways

[sage mountain]

having a world full of trusted users with unoptimised avatars is the concern

i would either have to disable certain features like dynamic bones for everyone

and manually enable it for the people in the same room

[solemn tapir]

I'm out, Cheers!

[sage mountain]

avatars can have compressed textures, which would blow up in size when loaded

[sage mountain]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/world-sdk-control-avatar-loading-based-on-position-relative-to-the-client
submitted as a feature request

[formal oasis]

Hello, we have a public world that we have spent a fair amount of time optimizing for VR and lower end hardware.
It is < 100k tris and with my 1070 TI and Ryzen 5 2600 and am able to hit 90fps on my HTC Vive.

However, there is this consistent microstuttering that I can't seem to get rid of.
Every 2 seconds or so, it feels like a few frames get skipped.

I do not have this problem in other optimized worlds, such as the default VRC home world.

What could be causing this?

Here is a screenshot of the world and stats in editor

Since the world is public, we have received reports from other users who were also having the same microstuttering issue in our world.
I tried to record a video in a minimal version of the world. It's a bit difficult to see.
There is a skip around 5 sec in that is a good example of what we're seeing.
You can see my SteamVR graph doesn't show any spikes

[untold apex]

could be a script that's syncing, or garbage collection, or something to that effect. would be a good idea to use the profiler on your scene instead of just the stats window

[formal oasis]

If I disable the gameobject that an UDON script is attached to, is that enough to disable the script?

In the video I posted, nearly every object with scripts on it is disabled

[timber coyote]

World materials, I have a bunch of props furniture and such that use repeat textures and could be all the same material.
They're separate meshes but I'm wondering what the practice is in this case?
I want to keep separate meshes for animation but wouldn't that mean each redundant material will each be their own draw call?

[pallid gale]

https://docs.unity3d.com/2021.2/Documentation/Manual/static-batching.html

basically Unity has a method for meshes that have the same material together into one draw call

[timber coyote]

Static rather than dynamic. Alright

[hazy girder]

Hey I was told this and I wanna make sure it's true

Is it true that using vrchat shader is better for optimization than using standard currently looking into optimizing a large world

[untold apex]

the vrchat lite shader is more optimized, yeah. has fewer features but should evaluate a little quicker.

atlasing materials, GPU instancing where possible, and occlusion culling will probably have a bigger impact

[hazy girder]

Is it better to have static checked or no?

[untold apex]

it depends. generally yes, if something doesn't move, flag it as static. but GPU instanced objects can't be fully static

[hazy girder]

What is gpu instancing

[untold apex]

GPU instancing is where you leverage the GPU to copy the same mesh over and over again, just with different transforms. So if you're instancing something repetitive like plants, where each mesh is the same but just translated/rotated/scaled differently, it can save a lot of draw calls. You just have to check "Enable GPU instancing" on the material.

[hazy girder]

Is combining meshes with probuilder a good way to optimize

[untold apex]

in some cases, yes, but not always. if you combine too much at once, you won't be able to leverage occlusion culling. combining small groups of objects that don't move and always appear together (like a flower in a vase for example) is a good idea. combining all of the walls in a large room is not

[cloud coral]

Quick question if anyone can assist

What would be the most performant way to animate a neon sign with many small bulbs?

• Making each light toggle between a mesh with the light on and light off (gameobject switching)
• Swapping materials on each individual light
• Adjusting shader settings on each individual light (color and emission)

[pallid gale]

https://twitter.com/orels1_/status/1493026541256773634?s=20&t=RUMQSH1ukLOAKE9m7uUT3A

orels1 (@orels1_)

My Shader Package is finally out! Need a feature-rich PBR shader for your worlds? Check out ORL at https://t.co/kfT4pZtpyU ! Layering, Displacement, AudioLink, Glass and much much more. As well as the demo world which was built with it: https://t.co/momHk85oKX e #VRChat #unity3d https://t.co/PkMuh2nDyb

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▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 14, 2022, 12:57 AM

this custom Shader has a flickering neon option which would be a lot less heavy then flickering individual lightbulb meshes on and off or swapping their materials @cloud coral

https://shaders.orels.sh/orl-standard/neon-light

[cloud coral]

Thank you!

[pallid gale]

like this method you could have one Material one mesh Handling everything

[untold apex]

if your lightbulbs had their UVs lined up sequentially along U or V, you could use a scroller texture to drive emission strength in the shader

basically just make a stripes texture and scroll it across the UVs

[cloud coral]

Would that be more performant?

It did cross my mind, just wasn't sure if that would be more or less demanding than toggling the emission on the shader itself

[untold apex]

well if you're talking about many small bulbs, where you want each one to be able to blink individually like a marquee, you'd still need some way to differentiate between the different bulbs in order to get them to flicker at different times

if everything is blinking at once then whatever, no need to get fancy

[cloud coral]

You're right

That didn't cross my mind, that the animator would just modify the material instead of the single bulb

🤔

UV scrolling will work, but then each bulb needs to be an individual mesh huh

[untold apex]

so you want to randomly blink instances of the same mesh? can you elaborate on exactly what effect you're trying to create?

[cloud coral]

It's an array of individual bulbs that need to be lit/unlit individually to replicate a classic Vegas style neon sign

[untold apex]

yeah, no problem

make the sign geometry, all the bulbs can be one mesh

[cloud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/welcometolasvegas-faboulous-welcome-vegas-lasvegas-gif-4648255

[untold apex]

align the UVs along one axis such that the bulbs are all in a straight row

[cloud coral]

See the bulbs around the sign

ye

[pallid gale]

yeah uv scrolling each of the bulbs would probably work pretty well

[untold apex]

then use a striped scroller texture to set emission

as long as your bulb UVs are laid out sequentially from start to finish, all you gotta do is have your shader constantly add to the U coordinate for that texture (the scroller) and then pipe the result to emission

you would probably need to make sure that your scrolling happens in increments so you don't accidentally have bulbs half-emitted

[cloud coral]

Hm noted

So if it's all one mesh with it's scrolling being modified, won't all bulbs be affected by the same scroll?

[untold apex]

isn't that the point

[pallid gale]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/32030551

[cloud coral]

They need to be lit individually

They aren't all lit at once

[untold apex]

of course they aren't

the scroller handles that

[pallid gale]

you have the different bulbs be at different starting positions on the texture

https://c10.patreonusercontent.com/4/patreon-media/p/post/32030551/051bb18eb7254b2ea1ff721183b3ef35/eyJwIjoxfQ%3D%3D/1.png?token-time=1646352000&token-hash=438FyWuXEu9WD2SSnBv1bVULE4OZNkgjIvz8D1OcrV4%3D

https://www.patreon.com/posts/32030551 this post has a Shader that does the scrolling required for the lights

[untold apex]

what you're making is basically a music box

you constantly rotate the drum by adding to U in your texture lookup

[pallid gale]

https://c10.patreonusercontent.com/4/patreon-media/p/post/32030551/fb7450a385d746e2a5540ed36f69535a/eyJ3Ijo2MjB9/1.gif?token-time=1646352000&token-hash=c-r6No3EhZWz2MxKQY_PqmlJVau9DMdiK4NxziXc9Qg%3D

[cloud coral]

Ok so you're saying to lay out the configuration of lights I need on each row of the texture, not controlling them in the engine

[untold apex]

yes. lay out your UVs so that your bulbs are in a row along one axis, sequentially

[pallid gale]

yes that is much less complicated for the renderer

[cloud coral]

Gotcha, noted

[pallid gale]

having the engine individually control each light would be way too expensive

[cloud coral]

It'll be a cluster trying to figure out the correct patterns but it's worth it for the optimization

Thank u

[pallid gale]

yes this method it's all one mesh one draw call

uv scrolling tricks like this are very common in games

[cloud coral]

Ye I was aware of it for animated surfaces

My brain just didn't wrap around using it like an array

lol

[next pasture]

Hey guys! I have a question. Yesterday i created a world and uploaded it into vrchat however whenever i try to teleport mine world it keeps teleporting me to the home base. Do u know why?

[frigid iron]

If your meaning that it kicks you out of your world before you even get in make sure you have a spawn set up, happened to me I made a empty and accidentally deleted it so it didn’t have a spawn

[ivory spear]

What's the most optimized, visually appealing, large group of people friendly movie theater world you have been to? DM me if possible please or ping me if you have a good link to share.

[gilded relic]

Is there a recommended material atlasing tool for unity? I am creating a bunch of assets in blender -> texturing in substance painter -> and then thinking of atlasing the materials per room or something. Seems to make the most sense to do this in unity, what do y’all recommend?

[pallid gale]

https://github.com/maxartz15/MA_TextureAtlasser have had some success with using this one

[gilded relic]

I’ll check it out, thank you!

[pallid gale]

hopefully it works okay for you

and I would note that material atlasing like tiling textures gets a little weird so probably better to start with your uniquely unwrapped props

[celest rune]

Is there a way to optimize a small world with 12 light sources so people dont lag in VR?

[pallid gale]

turn that all into baked lighting

as real-time lighting is quite expensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKgUJccjWRU

[celest rune]

already baked

[pallid gale]

question fully baked or set to mixed

[celest rune]

my light sources are spread this far. its baked with abit of bloom and post process volume

[celest rune]

umm im not sure

[pallid gale]

because if they're set to mixed you would still be incurring the 12 x draw call cost on all of the avatars

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Light-Baking

"The third light we add is a Point Light. This adds 1 pass to everything within its radius, and renders everything it touches again.
Our Point Light has no shadows. If we enable shadows, Unity will render a cubemap - a six sided texture - from the light's perspective with the shadows. This means things within the light's radius can be rendered up to 6 times."

okay checking these stats if you have all those Point lights to mixed casting Shadows that makes every Avatar 84 times more expensive

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RenderingStatistics.html#:~:text=Unity displays the Statistics window,according to the build target.

this Unity feature I posted the link of lets you see the rendering stats

[compact zodiac]

hey man how have you done your background? https://i.imgur.com/j5MHF6f.png

[pallid gale]

it's just a very pretty Skybox

[compact zodiac]

ok 🙂 is there are a website where you can find it?

I'm learning unity again lol

[pallid gale]

no clue as there's a lot of places it could have come from I suppose you could check the unity asset store for free Sky boxes

[lavish urchin]

Hi guys i tried using the vrworldtoolkit crunch compressor thing on my world to reduce the download size but it seems like the download size is still the same. Anyone have any clue on what i'm doing wrong? I'm super new to this

[pallid gale]

question have you actually uploaded a test build as as the thing that tells you the file size of your map goes off the most recent upload

so if you've just hit the crunch all the textures button with no test upload it would be going off the old data?

at least if you're getting the file size off of the build report function

[lavish urchin]

Yup! I uploaded it as an update

[pallid gale]

just figured I'd check

[celest rune]

Unity Asset Store. not sure witch one but i can check if u want me to.

[fallow drum]

Open the compressor and take a screenshot of it before you ran it so we can see the settings?

[compact zodiac]

thanks man I just found it

[celest rune]

np

[strong loom]

im currently working on a small world Currently i have 16 Meshes with 1 Material Each. The Current World Size is 75k tris / 38k faces and 37k verts. I wonder if someone can give me a rough estimate if that would break the Bank or not. I would try to optimise some items by merging the Materials and repainting them in Substance Painter. But what are some good estimates on Worldsizes.

[gentle gust]

thats not a lot for a world