Oki, just don't give up ๐
#3d-modeling
potent pond
And ruubick yeah I think they made a comertial of cartoon network
But that rig is a damn beast
quaint jasper
I wonder how many thousands of hours it took 
exotic gulch
WIP Battleship based on IJN Kirishima
potent pond
My hs and more than one people working on those rigs
dull canyon
so now that I've finished retopologizing the naked body of my model what would be next? UV unwrapping?
arctic pagoda
Hmm, does anyone know why when I import 2 fbx models (both has textures), the first model loads in fine, has textures and everything, and the 2nd fbx model appears all black...
quaint jasper
@dull canyon Yep !
dull canyon
okay. I guess if I UV unwrapped the whole body now and later on deleted some parts of the mesh that get covered by clothes and such it wouldn't really make a difference right
or rather, if I just went ahead and marked my seams for now
and once the clothes and everything are in actually unwrap it
tender tendon
Oh god that rigging video
I havent gotten into that kind of advanced rigging yet for my projects just from the scale of it
hollow radish
@dull canyon check if your rig works well for vrchat, you would need to redo topology if it doesn't work well
dull canyon
okay, so should I just add an armature and load it into unity to test?
hollow radish
works unless you are confident with your placements
arctic pagoda
hmm, is there a way to weight paint through the mesh? I keep subtracting but moving the bone still moves vertex groups that isn't even colored (on the outside at least)
All blue, yet it still moves
hollow radish
your not weight painting the right mesh
dull canyon
so, when do I know that it's time to apply the mirror modifier to everything?
small cloud
when you feel like you're done? you can always select middle vertex and go to Select>side of active to select exactly half of mesh @dull canyon
dull canyon
mkay
spiral sigil
Does anyone know how to use a sims4 .package file ? I've tried all the answers google gave me, used the blender extensions which didnt work. Tried downloading the recommended version of blender for that addon which didnt work either
potent pond
https://gumroad.com/l/OutdoorCourse
I have been watching this artist in many videos and the contect he does, and this video course seems PRETTY interesting.
Saw that he annoucned it and looks pretty cool, sadly the end part is on Unreal but...
The process surely would be interesting
dull canyon
so how does this work when I have a low poly mesh with a multiresolution sculpt on it and I want to bake the normals from that multires using Substance Painter? do I have to save the multires as external to be able to use it?
azure rain
dull canyon
sorry, should've specified I'm using Blender, no idea if it's the same as with zbrush
azure rain
then exporting fbx on the high-res model
clear cloak
"Spine has length of zero" help pls
small cloud
you can ignore that
trim quartz
No need to ask permission, ask away
spiral sigil
okie heres the model i want it to be A avatar for vrchat UvU
also like a PC user.
THIS one ๐
as a PC user avatar pls
trim quartz
If you have the model you could try setting it up yourself, it's not very hard to get it working, just look up a tutorial and use CATS
spiral sigil
yeah but someone do it pls ;w;
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/bLcPqQI.png so I guess this is a decent UV unwrapping of the body?
area stretching is a bit of a different story https://i.imgur.com/0kmwYKp.png
but guess that's just my bad topology
quaint jasper
doesn't seem too bad
reef lotus
it's not terrible but there's a lot of unused space
latent charm
For VRChat specifically, I'd try to allocate more texture resolution to the arms (especially the forearms and hands)
reef lotus
you can probably create seperate seams for the different body parts
latent charm
Since they'll be seen up close from first person a lot
quaint jasper
definitely should be a seam on the wrist for sure
latent charm
@dull canyon Also if you're unfamiliar with UV Pinning & Live Unwrap, check out this quick demo I did ages back (2.79x, probably similar in 2.8x))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2OHI89cZQ
quartz hawk
@dull canyon They say you should focus your highest polycount on the focal areas of a model, such as the face, since that is where people will be looking most the time.
Notices nipple polygon density
Hmmm.... 
dull canyon
:3
yeah I'll play around with the seams and resolution once I have the clothes and everything else figured out
how many textures is considered good or very good rating?
was it just 1?
quaint jasper
4 max for very good
dull canyon
okay, so I could have 1 texture for the body and 1 for the clothes and everything else I assume?
quaint jasper
yep
dull canyon
good
quaint jasper
better to atlas from the beginning if you can though
dull canyon
yeah
I just followed the cgcookie tutorial from a few years ago for unwrapping the body
just so I touched it once for now
and I get a rough understanding of what's going on
@latent charm thanks, now this makes more sense, I didn't really understand what exactly was happening in the cgc video when he explained it
opaque jolt
Are there currently any good tutorials for the current Blender (2.8?) version?
For getting into it and creating 3D models
quaint jasper
tons of them
dull canyon
so which parts should I give the most texture space? face, arms, hands?
quaint jasper
yep
hollow radish
Face
quaint jasper
usually face is 30% of your UV space, or has its own UV map
dull canyon
also, wasn't there a way to have islands layed perfectly on top of each other? I'd believe that's what you want to do for the hands and feet since they're most likely to be just mirrored
right?
quaint jasper
i think that's done through the mirror modifier ?
dull canyon
well I applied the mirror modifier
since I assumed you'd need the whole mesh unwrapped to work properly
dull canyon
well I guess that's assuming the whole body for your model should have a perfectly symmetrical texture?
but what if I wanna add some moles or other asymmetrical things, then I can't use the mirror, right
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/4XuC4gW.png so something like this? the face has it's own texture
hollow radish
https://gyazo.com/44d0466f82c5ad68bbe66ccfae69d424 might split this
dull canyon
ok
dull canyon
ah yeah, I've seen this one
buuut I don't think I'm gonna be spending money on that just yet
hollow radish
๐ its extremely useful
dull canyon
I'll try to make this first avatar with as little expenses as I can
though depending of how much of a pain texture painting in Blender is I might buy Substance Painter
hollow radish
substance painter is going to be like monthly
dull canyon
nope
hollow radish
yes
dull canyon
if you get the perpetual license
hollow radish
cause adobe
dull canyon
it's 150โฌ
hollow radish
a bunch of 3dcg people were talking about it
reef lotus
perpetual license is gonna be gone, but it can still be bought through steam
you won't get any updates beyond the year though
dull canyon
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
hollow radish
๐
tepid wagon
@hollow radish I gonna get this addon cos I hate UV unwrapping, what a waste of time that is
hollow radish
yeah
it saves me a lot of time
but you still need to be somewhat competent at uv unwrapping
so straighten when needed
tepid wagon
There was a lot of straightening and moving precisily, it was a nightmare
tepid wagon
and that was quite a simple model
hollow radish
that looks good still
tepid wagon
I had a tutor that require things to be packed well
hollow radish
Waiting for me to make a model then get blasted by how poor I do things, then git better later
tepid wagon
If I will have to streighten islands and press button to get good fill rate that would be really amazing
I mean this addon
hollow radish
Wait, do you not straighten with one button?
tepid wagon
I have an addon that allows to "rectify" - turn an island into a rectangle but it doesn't always work
hollow radish
textools might be useful if you don't know it, though I think I have uvsquares for some reason ๐ค
or follow active quads can also work if you make one face into a square first
dull canyon
@quartz hawk thanks, because of you I can't stop thinking "OwO notices nipple polygon density "
azure rain
lol
vivid crater
you better stop
ebon vault
new blender: nice, clean UI with little confusion
old blender: using a lazer pointer fed by a nuclear reactor
vivid crater
its funny since people dont like change, plenty still prefer the old one and cant be bothered to move
for just importing/exporting its fine tho
hollow radish
I decided to move because I wanted to get into industry standard ๐ plus support
Plus 2.79 gets messy
A lot of clutter
hollow radish
2.79 feels a bit janky and not streamlined...
basically a lot of hacks to do something
dull canyon
so, if I want to use 2 separate textures for the face and the rest of the body, how do I do that?
I have my UVs all laid out
dull canyon
I guess I need 2 separate materials, make vertex groups for the body and face and assign the materials to those vertex groups?
dull canyon
I'm so confused
dull canyon
so does stuff like normal maps or specular maps also count towards the texture limit?
fringe rock
Create a new materiak and assign the face vertex to it. Unwrap. Done
dull canyon
yeah
god why is texture painting in blender so damn annoying and unintuitive
why the fuck is it painting on the wrong texture even though I have the right ones selected
I am very close to buying substance painter right now
please someone help me, this is driving me insane. I want to paint the dots for the reflection in the eyes. I have separate material and texture for just the face, the disks are assigned to the right vertex group, they are unwrapped, but when I have the face texture selected and paint on the model it paints on the body texture instead...
vivid crater
just to check, when in edit mode and youre on the face material and hit select, does it select all the parts you want?
wondering if you assigned the material also since you said you assigned the vertex group
dull canyon
yes
dull canyon
well actually no...
I keep forgetting that vertex groups and material groups are different things
clear cloak
any tutorial on how to join a body with a rigged pants? I dont know how to do it and I dont find any videos
dull canyon
rigged pant?
clear cloak
pants with bones
clear cloak
so you delete the legs from the model and put the pants with bones but idk how to do it
oh srry
dull canyon
uhm, delete the part of the body mesh that gets covered by the pants, join the pants with the body mesh, use the bones from the body to rig the pants?
would be my first guess
clear cloak
idk
spiral sigil
Custom model creation option should generally have you covered if the pants are rigged.
cold charm
Every tutorial I see has a completely different UI than the current version, is there any way to downgrade without any sort of issues?
If that even makes sense
spiral sigil
Yes you can have different versions installed at the same time
dull canyon
okay so if I have 2 textures, for the face and for the rest of the body, I assume I also need 2 separate images for stuff like specular or roughness maps?
latent charm
Yes, unless you decide to use a custom shader in which you could squeeze some channels into the alpha if they're not used for transparency.
dull canyon
mkay, and does every one of those images, be it textures or maps, count towards the overall textures? or is it just materials
ie "texture slots"
this is so confusing for me
latent charm
I think there's a max number of texture samples unity lets a shader have but I've never run into that, and it's quite a lot so I'm not sure why you're worried about hitting that.
dull canyon
because of the rating
latent charm
VRChat's ranking system doesn't take textures into account as far as I know
latent charm
An Object is something that (can) have multiple Material Slots
A Material is something that has multiple Texture slots
A Texture is something that has image data.
Does that make more sense now?
dull canyon
yes
thanks
so I'm currently using 2 material slots then, face and body, and for each of those I can use multiple textures each, for albedo, normals, roughness
latent charm
You could use one material for the whole lot, just pack the head texture up with the body and alter the UVs to match.
dull canyon
at the cost of resolution for each part tho, right
dull canyon
so... if I'm using 2x 2k textures now I should just use one 2048*4096 texture?
or does it have to be square
latent charm
From what I can find, non-square textures are only a problem in specific circumstances (which we aren't encountering here).
Otherwise as long as it's a power of two in some way (1024x1024, 512x256, 128x32, etc) it's fine.
dull canyon
mmmkay, I mean, I haven't done any clothes yet, so I might have to go with more space anyways
latent charm
And if you have anything else for the model, you could go for a 4k texture and now you've got a load of texture & UV space for that too.
dull canyon
ok this is getting kinda annoying now... I created a new 4k texture, I UV unwrapped everything and layed it out, I removed all old materials and textures, I added a new material to the body and plugged the new texture into the base color slot, I can draw on the texture in the image editor, but not in the texture paint viewport
and I have paint mask disabled
silent junco
wip
dull canyon
looks cute already
silent junco
its a gas mask thing
dull canyon
well, it also looks like a cute little creature
silent junco
im trying to do a dress for it currently doing the basic shape
just not right
like
its dress shapped
but its not right
dull canyon
https://gfycat.com/RemoteElderlyDodo @latent charm last time I'll be asking for help tonight...
otherwise this is going to drive me insane all night
silent junco
what is your problem
dull canyon
that I can't paint on the model directly
dull canyon
latent charm
I'd say check what paint options are on or not.
I haven't used 2.8's texture paint stuff yet (honestly, waiting for 2.81-2.82 before I switch over)
silent junco
you don't need the first 2
latent charm
Yes and no, when not present they're implied.
quaint jasper
@dull canyon https://youtu.be/u9nE2Xg6Jgk
silent junco
i only have image texture and material output when i weight paint
quaint jasper
You need to enable brushes in your view i think
only visible different in terms of UI between tutorial and you gif
silent junco
use standard settings
quaint jasper
since you're using TextDraw which is correct, but the icon isn't in your scene view
dull canyon
uhm
quaint jasper
oh
dull canyon
that went completely over my head
dull canyon
I'm in material preview
quaint jasper
don't you need to be in texture ?
dull canyon
there is no texture
the issue is not the display
but the fact that it doesn't draw, at all
on the model it self, only when I paint on the texture in the image editor
quaint jasper
dull canyon
yeah even if I enable that I can't draw on the model
dull canyon
okay... wtf
when I add a new base color texture it works...
I give up trying to understand why
thanks
silent junco
didn't know what do do with the dress so i did shoe
head is gonna be the biggest pain
coarse kestrel
silent junco
cool
dull canyon
looks good
cold charm
Iv'e got an easy question that I can't answer - in the current verison of blender, how do i import a 2d image?
spiral sigil
Enable this plugin, hit space, type import image as planes and import image as planes
exotic gulch
IJN Fusokagi
silent junco
thats a cool boat
exotic gulch
Its a aircraft carrier but thank you
silent junco
still a boat
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/dPyb6Vw.jpg TIL to add the eye lashes much sooner next time
they add so much to the character
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/1u1b5AH.jpg help, I have no idea what I did but all of a sudden a bunch of random edges are sharp like this
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/lcmHUpB.jpg found the solution, apparently at some point I managed to split the normals for some edges, doing "merge normals" got rid of that
well in my case it's usually because I did something dumb, not so much because Blender is misbehaving
dusty badge
teeth time
i actually just finished a texture for them, that are okay i guess
they're teeth alright :p
dusty badge
thankfully i dont need to do the other parts since they were done for me but now its time for shape keys
woo.
azure rain
okay that's some scary looking topology but it should probably animate okay as kept the edge loops around the eyes in the mouth
latent charm
I'd have left more around the cheeks and jaw, but eh it should be okay.
dull canyon
you'll get there
silent junco
probably
dull canyon
definitely
silent junco
and hands are only abominations that are vaugly hand shaped
vivid crater
did you use curves for the hair?
dull canyon
nope
those are all planes
with a subsurf and solidify
I'll basically try to do "haircards" but without transparency
sounds like curves with extra steps
dull canyon
much more control over the topology
if I was on a really tight poly budget I could remove the solidify
vivid crater
definitely, youd have to convert to mesh to fix up the curve
dull canyon
yeah
vivid crater
what polycount did you set for yourself btw?
dull canyon
ideally I'd like to stay under 90k
right now without clothes and with one subsurf I'm at 80k
vivid crater
That sounds pretty good, I'm assuming you're gonna have one for vrc?
dull canyon
yea
I'd want to at least, since my topology isn't the best yet I kinda need that subsurf to make it look somewhat good and smooth
the next model I'll probably do with box modeling instead of sculpt + retopo, so that will hopefully be better topology
vivid crater
That's funny, I started mine box modeling with multi res and ended up trying to retopo anyway
and i still need to do some kind of reduction on the back since its more dense than the front because of the butt cheeks
vivid crater
i didnt like how the first looked
dull canyon
mkay
honestly once I was finally done with the retopo it felt like a huge weight fell off my shoulders
mostly because doing retopo in blender is a pain in the ass
at least in 2.81
vivid crater
yea, its uh, interesting
dull canyon
2.79 at least has retopoflow still I think
vivid crater
im on 2.8 rn too
dull canyon
it's real annoying imo
the way snapping and the shrinkwrap work are kinda dumb in a lot of situations
vivid crater
heres the previous topology, the back is less dense but i dont like the way the leg loops turn into the butt cheek
vivid crater
ah yes, butts ๐
vivid crater
im making a smaller person, so thats not allowed
dull canyon
says who
vivid crater
id like to make a thicc person tho
dull canyon
:3
vivid crater
whoa
silent junco
i don't really give a fuck about topology
dull canyon
thicc lolis are a thing
vivid crater
id rather them be like, i dunno small and cute i guess
dull canyon
well, cute is subjective I guess
steep stag
ass
dull canyon
buttocks
vivid crater
theyre fine, just this model im making specifically isnt for that
steep stag
gluten
steep stag
GLUTEN
silent junco
YES
caps
yes
get a 3d model
import into unity
model resources
though some are missing their rigs
its a website
that has models
dull canyon
https://gfycat.com/BeautifulIllegalIndigobunting not sure which one I like more
๐ค
silent junco
i like the one with less polygons
dull canyon
any other ways of doing like fluffy balls
silent junco
but thats just me being a low poly dood
dull canyon
yeah, I thought so too I guess
silent junco
i don't know how to do the hair on the model im working on
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/xNlfG7Z.jpg yeah guess I'll go with that, gonna make it asymmetrical when I'm sure I'm done with it
now, if I would've been smart I would have marked a seam on the first cone before I duplicated it a dozen times...
dull canyon
ah well
alt click a few times and mark seam
whoever it was that said they were using uvpackmaster, can you tell it to keep the current size/ratio of islands and just pack them as tightly as it can?
fringe rock
@dull canyon you can change your view point with the number pad if you dont know and 5 for the type of perspective
dull canyon
I'm well aware, but the new pie menu is much nicer imo
fringe rock
swap fast then
arctic pagoda
This is a dumb question, but why does a Unity cube can take in a normal map, but a cube made in blender and imported to Unity as an fbx doesn't calculate any normals? (same shader)
arctic pagoda
Yes
well i already have a normal map
but it only works on a cube made in Unity
but not a custom 3d model from blender
doing CTRL+N in blender doesn't seem to fix it
silent junco
Images plz
arctic pagoda
silent junco
The blender cubes uvs?
silent junco
You need to do uvs always
Or they will have no height or length
And be in a corner
dull canyon
hm, is there a way to make faces of a mesh that I've hidden also not show up in object mode? or do I have to delete them
hollow radish
?
dull canyon
okay
guess I'll wait with that until I'm actually done with the clothes and everything then
silent junco
I think you can hide vertex groups
silent junco
You can also delete only faces and then spend a lot of time to undo that
quick thunder
good job so far
quick thunder
I lost alot of motivation unfortunately
dull canyon
it feels like all the hours I put into this over the past weeks and months are finally paying off
yeah I was in a big slump not too long ago too
but like 1 1/2 weeks ago I like really buckled down, finally got the retopo done and since then I put in so many hours every day
it's like such a rewarding feeling seeing it all come together now
vivid crater
Yea, sitting working on a naked bald lady doesn't give you much reward
dull canyon
I mean
vivid crater
Unless you're making a naked bald lady 
dull canyon
if she ain't nude you ain't doing it right
heavy lion
so im trying to upload a avatar and it just keeps on doing a ding sound and then just shows this,... what to do?
silent junco
quaint jasper
Congrats !
hardy agate
@dull canyon i know im super late to the question but i believe you can hide part of a mesh in object mode if you create a vertex group and then add it to a mask modifier
stable bronze
I'm having difficulty with exporting and importing blender files into unity
quaint jasper
Export as fbx instead
dull canyon
@hardy agate ah, that'd make sense, thanks!
dull canyon
yep, that works, now I have a more accurate estimation for how much topology I'll end up with
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/4O7PoUm.png does anyone know if there's a Blender addon that would allow me to easily completely straighten these strips out? so that everything's at 90ยฐ angles
the pointy ends are just 2 vertices scaled to 0
they all are actually just rectangular strips
nevermind, apparently there's a standard addon uvsquares
that does exactly that
olive bone
Select left side of a strip in the UV section, then hit S+X+0
dull canyon
yeah I wouldn't wanna do that by hand
olive bone
Repeat with right side
dull canyon
uvsquares does basically exactly what I want
vivid crater
yea doing it manually is probably the least favorable thing
dull canyon
when/why would I want to use 32bit float for textures?
latent charm
When you need a higher dynamic range than the usual 0-255.
Displacement maps are one example of this, as just a regular image is likely to suffer from banding as the step from one value to the next cannot have the same precision as with a 32bit float.
Skyboxes are another example, as the sun is super fucking bright and 8bit colour just cannot accurately represent that without tonemapping and that's kinda useless if you're using it for lighting.
This dude does quite a lot with HDR stuff (runs the HDRI Haven site) and has a variety of blog posts on the subject of HDR imaging for 3D
http://blog.gregzaal.com/
dull canyon
okay, generally speaking do I want that for vrchat avatars?
latent charm
Not really no.
dull canyon
ok
dull canyon
so, do I want to join all my meshes (clothes, hair, body) together before weight painting or after?
ashen stag
Depends really, clothes and body yeah but hair can be done separate since it's all based off the head
But if it's a big skirt it would be easier to do on its own
dull canyon
okay, cause I did that and right now I'm having big issues with automatic weights not properly including the clothes
it's skin tight clothing
ashen stag
Ah no you can't do automatic weights with multiple meshes
dull canyon
even in the same object?
hollow radish
Your hair uvs seem really messy in terms of shape
dull canyon
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
hollow radish
what does your hair look like ๐
dull canyon
vivid crater
What do the hair uvs look like after you used uvsquares?
hollow radish
Wait do you have subdivision modifier on the hair?
Also arms are kinda wonky in terms of anatomy
Or at least it's missing a few things
Though might be fine
ashen stag
To be a good sculptur you gotta know anatomy imo
hollow radish
to be a good sculptor, you have to know what you are sculpting
signal zenith
Hello, I'm currently working on the base for a low poly model for a character and I'm worried that I'm doing something wrong. Is there anything I need to add or take? Here's the side view.
And the front, I'm not sure what to fix to try to get it right.
signal zenith
Alright I think I have the elbows going.
quaint jasper
I would have suggested starting off with cylinders from the start, since everything is round in shape for the body
signal zenith
Maybe I might make a second version and try that method out.
signal zenith
What could I have done to make it better?
signal zenith
Does this look better for a start?
azure rain
yes
signal zenith
Awesome, so how should I do the arms and legs since I was using a 10 faced cylinder for the body? Like do I add more cylinders or what do I do?
azure rain
bronze jasper
can anyone who's a pro with zbrush help me?
signal zenith
Does this look alright for the arms?
silent junco
Depends on what you want
But it might work
Also @ashen stag you can do automatic weights on multiple meshes
Itโs as easy as doing it the normal way if not easier
ashen stag
Wouldnt that lead to drifting or uneven weights across the meshes? Not sure if its different in 2.8
Using the automatic weighting during parenting for non watertight models usually leads to a mess thats harder to clean up than just weighting it from nothing. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
ashen stag
Yeah I cant speak for 2.8 so if it works better then more power to ya
dull canyon
yeah I just tried keeping the meshes as separate objects and parenting them with auto weights one by one, and it does work better, but it still has issues...
and I'm not sure if it's just my lack of experience, blender 2.81 being dumb, or my topology just being too trashy
but doing weight painting is very tough for me for either of those reasons
not sure if I shouldn't just start from scratch again to get a cleaner base, instead of trying to work with this scuffed one...
would maybe someone be willing to take a look at my model and evaluate what my best option would be?
silent junco
I just did it all at once
Works for me
Though my 3D models are usually more simple
dull canyon
yeah, mine is probably really scuffed at this point
since I have no clue what I'm actually doing at this point
silent junco
If it works it works
dull canyon
well, except it isn't
dull canyon
silent junco
Try combine the meshes
dull canyon
more or less
silent junco
Then just infuse it with the skin
dull canyon
?
silent junco
Make the skin and clothes connected
dull canyon
you mean connect the vertices?
silent junco
Yes
dull canyon
okay
silent junco
Recommend you duplicate before doing so
dull canyon
I have a backup save
silent junco
That works
dull canyon
well, that didn't work, probably because the clothes aren't really touching the body...
dull canyon
thanks...
dull canyon
already did that
silent junco
Ok
dull canyon
or at least I'm hiding them with a mask modifier, in case I need to adjust things
silent junco
Iโm trying to think of a solution but I got none atm
dull canyon
so, I assume normally you would extract the mesh that you want to use for a part of clothing directly from the body mesh?
like, for panties you'd select the faces that would be hidden by the panties and like separate them and then shape them as needed?
vivid crater
Hmm, you could try rigging the body first then using data transfer on the clothing
dull canyon
yeah I tried that but couldn't really get it to work
vivid crater
Damn ๐
dull canyon
but maybe I just did something wrong...
daring roost
any idea if i can go back to blender 2.79 without issues >.<?
silent junco
Accept your fate and use 2.8
hollow radish
from scratch
silent junco
Cool
hollow radish
basically spent 20hrs trying to perfect the head https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404198768800694273/644098620659990528/unknown.png
after the 10th, basically just box modelled
then went back into zbrush to clean up
silent junco
I either only use sculpting in blender or only box modeling
fringe rock
To prevent cliping in general. The clonthing should be connect to to the body topology if they are really close
dull canyon
well it came out looking pretty awesome
did you use substance painter for the textures?
median pike
Dude. Its great. Super simple and effective
silent junco
My only problem i have with it is that Iโm just bad at drawing
hollow radish
Got better with skirts https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491474695468613632/644149097372319764/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491474695468613632/644149272467603456/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491474695468613632/644154004594622465/unknown.png
dull canyon
well, I think I'm done with rigging
so, should I join all meshes together before uv unwrapping or can I do that afterwards?
olive bone
You should UV map as soon as you finish the mesh
potent pond
Agree with Rusoski
dull canyon
mkay
well, guess I'll try drawing a hair texture now
been a while since I used CSP
dull canyon
argh, apparently I have to re-do the hair mesh...
this "hair card" idea doesn't seem to be working out, probably because I did something wrong
https://i.imgur.com/2Kar4t3.jpg guess I wasn't supposed to actually apply the solidify and subsurf modifier
dull canyon
or I just say screw it and move on so I can finally finish this model...
acoustic cedar
Just finished this Stormland fan model, it's fully rigged so feel free to pick it up to use on your avatars! - https://skfb.ly/6OKnH
subtle jackal
@dull canyon you're pretty much always going to have to clean stuff up and make tweaks, that's just the nature of the beast, in a sense. Especially with skin weights and so on. As for the hair pieces, you might be able to fix some of the texture distortion by switching how they are triangulated. It's caused by affine texture mapping in UVs. You might also be able to fix it using shaders, not sure.
dull canyon
mh, yeah I get that. I just have to decide when I just want to cut my losses and move on I guess
subtle jackal
@hollow radish did you modify the normals on the head? I'd love to see how you tweaked them, it's hard to find good examples of how to get that nice shading on the nose and cheeks.
You didn't lose anything. You are still learning.
dull canyon
yeah no, figure of speech
at some point I think I just have to stop tweaking and correcting and just try to get this into the game already just so I am done with it and so I can move on to the next version
subtle jackal
IIRC you hadn't really modeled much before and decided to jump pretty much straight into a full avatar yea? That's a pretty tall order for a novice. I'd say you did damn good.
dull canyon
yeah, this is my first model I got this far, first touched Blender in early summer I think
subtle jackal
yea, that's pretty dang good. If you want to start again, I mean sure, go for it, but don't let it frustrate you if things are a bit scuffed. As long as you're learning, you're progressing.
dull canyon
yeah, I'm very tempted to just paint a very very rough hair texture directly on the hair and call it a day
I won't be running around in this avatar anyways, at least not in pubs, so...
subtle jackal
It's also worth noting that you don't have to do everything in one go. You can sort of compartmentalize the project and work on bits at a time. E.g. if you don't like the hair, start over on just that, keep trying things until you find something that works or work out how to do it. Same for the head, or the clothes, etc.
dull canyon
well that's kinda what I did, I've been putting off doing hands, feet, hair for as long as I could and then just focused on those individually...
I'll try out how the direct texture painting will look like tomorrow, if it's good enough then it's good enough and I can move on and finish the texturing
subtle jackal
It'll help avoid the issue with affine mapping yea
dull canyon
then I still gotta do visemes, and I think then I can finally import it into unity?
subtle jackal
if it's all rigged and skinned and so on yea. Technically you don't even need visemes to get it into unity and into VRChat, but it helps for the whole immersion thing
anyway if you want to get your hands dirty with shaders or have a friend help https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/148082/how-can-i-fix-zig-zagging-uv-mapping-artifacts-on-a-generated-mesh-that-tapers
there's a good reply here that explains how to get the perspective-correct mapping on your hair via shader
dull canyon
okay, that kinda makes sense
I guess in the video that I got this idea from they never really zoomed in on the hair so I didn't see if this zig zagging was happening to them too
cause they were doing the same thing, have a strip of polygons, shape into the typical anime style hair shape with a pointy end, and then they made the UVs for each strip rectangular and used a simple hair texture
subtle jackal
Yea to be fair there's a point where you can scrutinize too much as well. Long as it isn't super noticeable it's usually fine.
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/Kzsbimx.jpg well, this will have to do
primal dew
I'm looking to take my modeling to the next level, and I heard box modelling and sculpting to retopogrophy is what alot of people do. Anybody else recommend this and have some nice tutorials to getting started with it in blender 2.8?
dull canyon
I did the sculpting > retopo workflow with this model
tbh I didn't enjoy the retopo process, mostly because - at least to me - doing retopo in blender is a pain in the ass because of how janky it behaves
primal dew
Just for context for where I'm at roughly
dull canyon
granted it was my first time doing it
quaint jasper
@primal dew i don't think anyone would recommend box modeling for characters
dull canyon
wut
primal dew
Okay neat
dull canyon
aren't basically all the MMD models done via box modeling?
primal dew
Oh sorry I mean to send something before that that showed where I was at but it didn't send.
quaint jasper
by professionals yes
primal dew
I'm pretty rookie
quaint jasper
yeah so don't do box modeling
dull canyon
so sculpting > retopo is the recommended way for new learners?
dull canyon
well, I'll try box modeling for the next version I think
or I'll try to worry less about having perfect edge loops when doing retopo... I dunno
primal dew
I have some experience. I finished this recently. Its entirely in quads, made with loops.
But I for problem zones, like the head and hands. I cant seem to both get topography correct and get detail.
silent junco
despise what you may think hands don't need to be a super detailed monster of polygons
primal dew
They dont, but Im generally bad at making them look human without getting really messy, so some more advanced techniques might be nice for those.
silent junco
mine look like this
hollow radish
ohno...
silent junco
OH YESยจ
hollow radish
that will not bend properly
trim quartz
but will it bend good enough for the person using it?
hollow radish
it will crumple
i mean it will work
but it won't look nice
plus you don't have enough polies
where it bends
vivid crater
ah yes, that one gif that you see everywhere
i was just gonna ask where was it ๐
hollow radish
๐คฆโโ๏ธ
vivid crater
silent junco
i am evil incarnate
vivid crater
stay right where you are, im calling ruuuuubick
hollow radish
I'm sorry, I've had worse modelling for 3khrs
silent junco
its less polygons than the entirty of a mmd avatars ass
vivid crater
3k hours ๐ฆ
vivid crater
new steam library 
silent junco
idk how much time i have on blender seeing as i downloaded it through the blender website
silent junco
i probably have around 500hours maybe more
not sure
also steam worn't keep track of my hours in blender
so its eternally saying 95minutes
primal dew
I've taken a look at box modelling and it seems neat, may try it.
Sculpting into retopography seems time consuming, but sculpting let's me make all those small adjustments so.
silent junco
2.81 has a auto retopologize function
idk how good it is
https://gyazo.com/b1acc8ed5a9b6c764e18304240088f60 i don't know what im doing with my life
it has red lips when the mouth it closed
vivid crater
๐ธ
youre getting almost close enough to where people are gonna say "yOu cAnT PoSt tHaT HeRe"
azure rain
well it is a cute frog
azure rain
yes at the very good frog
runic nymph
i imagine it to scream in pain and agony every time it opens the mouth on that gif
azure rain
or they're shouting very loud because they're in a crowded shopping mall and their friend has gotten too far away
silent junco
he goes from passive to mild confusion to then screaming
we can't do actual screaming only screaming
runic nymph
yeaaah
dull canyon
sooo, before you export a model to unity you have to apply all modifiers, right?
dull canyon
okay, just making sure
silent junco
And thatโs a no no
thorny fractal
actually it applies modefiers automatically on export
dull canyon
so you have to apply all mirror modifiers and thus need mirrored textures
thorny fractal
but sometimes the order in which the modifiers are applied can mess things up
and you can uncheck "apply modifiers" on the export page
thorny fractal
at least i would apply the mirror modifier
dull canyon
yeah no, I was just making sure that you have to apply the mirror and all
silent junco
Also if your vertex is displaced by 0.02 on a mirror they wornt melt together into one being and itโs all your fault
So make sure that doesnโt happen
azure rain
that is a very nice high poly
quaint jasper
damn that's beautiful !
hollow radish
๐
I need to go through a proper pipeline video at some point, usually just getting tips
kinda curious how you do certain objects like the straps in zbrush ๐ค or is that seperately modelled
tepid wagon
Probably box modelled first then added folds using sculpting
thorny fractal
i used MD for the belt, the seam like edge things on the jacket i did in blender with shrinkwrap with a plane and then solidify. I did everything in zbrush beforehand as a prototype run with zbrush curves and stuff but i dont like using that so when im trying to make it look good i usually do it in a seperate program
the wrinkles in the arms where originally done in MD too
hollow radish
hmm ๐ค I have a feeling I screwed up a bit of my workflow then
cause having stuff double sided is still a mystery especially for baking
especially when you are trying sculpt something thin in zbrush and dynameshing kills it
desert crown
do you guys know what are the shortcut keys to flip UV's in blender? It says Ctrl + M but it doesn't work for me
hollow radish
N I think
or just spacebar search
thats what I usually do
wait
flip uvs ๐ค
tepid wagon
Do you mean rotate UV's or flip normals?
tepid wagon
mirror uv I guess
hollow radish
I usually just press s
desert crown
rotating is easy and its there
hollow radish
-1
desert crown
how do you s -1
tepid wagon
scale times minus one
hollow radish
the press x y or z
scale, -1
select the uv and press s
don't know the 2.8 controls
tepid wagon
so "S" -> axis (x or y) -> -1
desert crown
oof maybe i shouldn't have used a custom ui, pressing s don't work for me
tepid wagon
Right I havent unwrap anything in 2.8 just yet I may be bsing
hollow radish
should be the same
if you have 2.7x controls
my workflow will slowdown if i change controls
tepid wagon
You also have "Transform" category and under that there is "Scale" may use that
although it may affect the mesh and not the UV cos it is on the side with your mesh :>
Thats 2.79 -,-
tepid wagon
can you hover your mouse cursor over UV and press T see will you have menu pop on the far left?
hollow radish
max ๐๏ธ the old dog
tepid wagon
It would be better to just use 2.8, it's easier to learn
desert crown
@tepid wagon the shortcut keys are all different and it made me scale my uv's only
tepid wagon
Ok, I don't think I can help you at all in that case
desert crown
yeah don't worry about it
thorny fractal
dynamesh works off of scale if its destroying thin stuff then you should try scaling everything up
desert crown
@tepid wagon oh yeah i did that but then the mesh also flipped so i was confused
tepid wagon
I thought that was what you were after
tepid wagon
alright sleep now, have fun
desert crown
night โค๏ธ
arctic pagoda
Does anyone know how to edit vertices with symmetry on the x/y/z axis? Kind of like mirror except instead of creating mirrored mesh, you're mirroring moving mesh vertices around.
quaint jasper
there's an option kinda hidden at the top right corner of blender 2.8
@arctic pagoda
Not sure if you can do that on other axis though
arctic pagoda
thanks!
arctic pagoda
okay that method doesn't work for proportional editing clothes (sleeves) from A pose to T pose, it didn't look right. Here's what I'm trying to do.
I want to rotate the sleeves upwards to match the hands with the pivot being at the shoulder.
fringe rock
do the reverse make the hand in the A pose weight paint the arms hand put back them in t pose then
arctic pagoda
ah that works too, thanks!
hollow radish
dull canyon
nice
can you show your weights?
I assume you're not affecting the panties at all with the legs?
arctic pagoda
Hmm, tried to change shape of skirt, now all shape keys affects scaling the skirt :/, cannot undo since it's too late, should I redo or is there a way to fix this?
hollow radish
https://gyazo.com/4d5f3cea8104c760ccc83cbdcf0890a6
https://gyazo.com/b71cba18c1ff301e3a968c058aab0257
basically topology and weightpainting
basically just looked up topology for animation
I guess it works
but depends I guess
these have different topology
so it won't work well unless they are very close
so I had to match the topology so that bother were almost the same
and I guess the panties don't move much it works out for most situations
hollow radish
yeah I did
dull canyon
okay
hollow radish
still doesn't mean it will follow correctly
its a starting point
but if your foundation, like topology, is wrong
then the rigging will be off
so everything stacks
like I can already notice a slight lean on my model
dull canyon
yea
hollow radish
that might cause problems
but I adjusted it before
will have to check others
references
from game models
I guess I would say as long as you understand the fundamental stuff you can learn what is right or wrong in a way ๐ค
at least have a justification of what you are trying to do. Not just because some random tutorials said so
at this point you can start experimenting
dull canyon
well, I need to learn good topology first I guess
hollow radish
would say its best to go through the pipeline first
if you get stuck early on, your motivation might die off and you won't learn as much
doesn't have to be perfect anyway
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/PN7cy4W.jpg this looks like a hot mess
yeah I'm just trying to finish this one and get it into the game and then immediately move on
and apply what I learned
hollow radish
well you can retopo it anyway
dull canyon
this is already a retopo
dull canyon
1st for me
hollow radish
I think my 1st attempt my arms were wonky
and the legs were so close
that md didn't work out
dull canyon
like I said, next time I think I'll try to start with box modeling
and then just multires sculpt on that
dusk turret
@arctic pagoda Select the verts you want to be still in all shape keys and do Propagate Shape Keys
dull canyon
if I have cleaner topology underneath I think it should be easier to extract the clothes from that
hollow radish
๐ฆ my next step is retopo fingers, last time I did it it was a disaster
dull canyon
with this model I just roughly sculpted them in and then box modeled them from scratch when I did retopo
a lot easier
I think
I think all that's left to do for me is some quick texturing, visemes and then off to unity
hollow radish
I would say, look at how real anatomy bends
and try to replicate that
then you have to understand its for a game so it has limitations
then you have to understand vrchat has limitations
after knowing all that you know what have to be sacrificed ๐ then you know what can be refined and what can be
just good enough
dull canyon
welp, texturing done, time for some visemes
and stuff
also, I'm definitely gonna buy Substance Painter
painting on the model in Blender is godawfully slow
and I have a somewhat beastly PC
dull canyon
why is cats messing up with the visemes ๐
silent junco
cause machine
and its blender
when does blender not fuck up in one way or another
dull canyon
well for the most parts Blender is working as expected
silent junco
thats what it wants you to think
dull canyon
well, lets see if I can import it into unity
silent junco
ok
quaint jasper
bring it in unity and see what it tells you poly wise
dull canyon
https://i.imgur.com/xwwnY5r.png ok so here's my first issue...
silent junco
though that can break the mesh
in blender
go into edit mode
then calculate normals
dull canyon
still same
silent junco
wdym
dull canyon
looks the same still
dull canyon
in blender everything looks fine
silent junco
did you recalculate normals
dull canyon
yes
silent junco
ok
silent junco
activate backface culling in blender
dull canyon
had to manually turn those faces normals inside-out
silent junco
then you can see the ones that are the wrong way
dull canyon
or you just activate "face orientation" in the view ๐
silent junco
backface culling is easier at a distance
dull canyon
so do I want to embed the textures with the exported fbx or no?
when I import the fbx into unity https://i.imgur.com/bpqlLef.png it looks like this, I can't see any of the textures
dull canyon
yeah apparently I had to extract the textures manually
ok so if I see this correctly all that cats did that I didn't do manually was create all the visemes and it did something with the eye tracking... but what exactly? I see it created 2 new bones
silent junco
its not really that big a problem
dull canyon
ok apparently the eye bones it created use XYZ Euler instead of Quaternion WXYZ
but what exactly does the setting where you can limit the rotation for the eyes do
silent junco
don't know
quaint jasper
Well done !
dull canyon
it's absolutely scuffed, but it's my scuffed
couldn't have gotten this far without everyone here and on other servers
gonna jump on tomorrow, invite a friend and then gonna take some notes of all the issues
maybe I'll buy poiyomis fur shader to see how it looks
on this model
I know there was at least one CATS dev in here? if you read this could you maybe ping me? I have some questions
next jungle
There's a link to their discord in #community-servers-old might be easier to ask there
dull canyon
thanks
dull canyon
also, yeah, CATS apparently had some issue detecting the tri count properly, the count shown in Blender is what it was actually at, so very poor rating yay
quaint jasper
you can remove some edge loops since you've got proper topology
ashen stag
Cats has that? Should be easier to just look at the top of the screen in blender yeah
dull canyon
I meant for decimating
ashen stag
Don't decimate, it's unhealthy!
quaint jasper
don't use automatic decimation 
dull canyon
I know, but I was getting lazy at this point
also it's fine at this point, I'm not gonna show this avatar to anyone but friends for feedback
for the next one I know what to do differently
quaint jasper
yeah that feeling when you're content with your model so anything extra seems superfluous xD
ashen stag
If you do decimate just save a pre decimate version obvi if you wanna go back later
dull canyon
I'll play around with the weight painting some more
quaint jasper
but still, edge loops
dull canyon
and probably try out the poiyomi fur shader
yeah I don't think I could easily delete enough edge loops to get it sub 70k
I'm at 80k atm
ashen stag
That's not that bad tbh, remember you can clear a lot of verts on areas that don't bend like forearms and thighs
dull canyon
and for rest of today I just wanna sit back and be happy about the fact that I finally managed what I set out to do half a year ago
ashen stag
Yeah there's no point burning yourself out, gotta enjoy what you make
vivid crater
substance just switched to a monthly only product due to the acquisition by adobe
youre still able to buy it out on steam, but unless you sign up for something you wont get updates
dull canyon
fuck adobe
they're the EA of the creative industry...
what are peoples thoughts on subscriptions plans like this? especially for software that used to be available as "buy once"
latent charm
absolutel bullshit. It's why over the years I've tried to eliminate as much proprietary shitware from my 3D pipeline.
silent junco
lets hope that never happens to blender
it likely worn't
but its still scary to think it might happen
dull canyon
@latent charm so what would you suggest to use instead of Substance?
latent charm
It can't for two reasons: GPL, and a sub-reason of that being the community wouldn't let it happen and would fork blender hard and fast.
dull canyon
the texture painting in blender is very badly performing in what little experience I had so far
silent junco
if you know what you are doing its ok
vivid crater
you know what else happened tho?
dull canyon
what
vivid crater
a complete uppercut to that, quixel got acquired by epic and now quixel mixer and bridge are completely free and if you make games for unreal engine megascans is also freely available to you
vivid crater
they made one of the largest texture libraries free
dull canyon
yeah, I'm still not gonna touch anything that has anything to do with epic
vivid crater
substance is adobe now
its more of a pick your poison, but epic is treating theirs nicely
mixer isnt a complete alternative to painter anyway tho
dull canyon
no idea what it is
vivid crater
mixer doesnt do much painting at all, its more of acutally mixing together textures, no nodes or anything
dull canyon
ok
desert crown
does anyone know how to make textures read as alpha/transparent? example here.
the textures are read correctly, but the white part is transparent from the textures, however in blender it is not transparent
i did check mark all the alphas and transparency things in the materials already as well, no dice
silent junco
it might not be shown in blender but just do it in unity
as long as you know your mask work
it should be fine
desert crown
oh okay thanks <3
dull canyon
@hollow radish I just noticed you have one bone more along the spine than I do, what's that one? I have hips, spine and chest
quaint jasper
upper chest most likely