avatar-rigging

[opal river]

yeah, I guess that comes from me doing the armature in A pose

how does one manually apply the pose as rest pose?

[fringe citrus]

that's gonna add a bit of down pointing to the corner that's formed

Without CATs? I haven't done it manually since blender 2.79

Should be a command though

[opal river]

ya, I don't wanna rely on cats

[fringe citrus]

try F3 and typing stuff

like rest pose

[opal river]

there is a command apply pose as rest pose, but when I do that in pose mode the armature will be in the T pose but the mesh won't

[fringe citrus]

Lemme try it out myself

ok got it

there @opal river ?

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

ok able to undo to before applying as rest pose?

[opal river]

yup

[fringe citrus]

Ok so get your model posed in the T-pose but nothing applied yet

there?

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

alright go into your modifiers and find armature modifier

[opal river]

yeah I Have to stop you right there

I already have shape keys

[fringe citrus]

Yeah you can apply a new basis as a shapekey

[turbid spear]

separate the head from the body and delete the shape keys on the body

[opal river]

oh, okay

[fringe citrus]

or I mean a new shapekey as bases but it should keep the old ones

[opal river]

okay, so go on, sorry for interrupting

[fringe citrus]

it's alright, so apply as shapekey for your armature modifier

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

ok now do the F3 -> apply as rest pose as before

[opal river]

it went into A pose after I applied as shape key, is that normal?

[fringe citrus]

Yeah

Now it's living in an unapplied shapekey

Ok got the apply as rest pose on the armature set?

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

ok find the shapekey that was created by applying the armature modifier as shapekey

[opal river]

got it

[fringe citrus]

and click the little dark down triangle thing

and "apply selected shapekey to basis"

[opal river]

okay, that worked

[fringe citrus]

You've lost your armature modifier now though

so gotta remake that

so add a new armature modifier on your body mesh

[opal river]

yup, got it

[fringe citrus]

and set it to your armature

and should be good to go

[turbid spear]

That actually sounds like a pretty elegant solution

[fringe citrus]

test it out in pose mode again to make sure it moves with it

[opal river]

yup, it works

[fringe citrus]

I mean it's what CATs does, I remember because I used to do it that way in 2.79 before cats implemented it

[opal river]

and so how does that help with the shoulder sagging?

[fringe citrus]

Hotox actually added the apply as rest pose after I found a workaround for a bug that caused the mesh to revert

[opal river]

also I straightened out the whole arm https://i.imgur.com/64uYmxA.png is that right?

[fringe citrus]

Yeah that looks good, you have a tiny backwards bend in the elbow?

[turbid spear]

Why are you putting it into a tpose anyway

[opal river]

yea

https://i.imgur.com/R5AObZX.png

[fringe citrus]

Can you press Num7 and show the arm just in case?

[opal river]

well maybe more than a bit I guess

[fringe citrus]

ah yeah you were ahead of me hehe

Yeah that should be good

You can check yourself but in every case I've seen, when an A-pose model get's Tposed into the humanoid rig configuration (you can look by clicking configure) the shoulder bones are pointing down a bit

When it started in tpose it mostly keeps the your original bone orientations

[opal river]

ah, okay

good to know, thanks

so I guess I should do retopo in A pose, but rigging in T pose?

[fringe citrus]

it's gonna stick it in tpose anyway, this way you're setting it up near the result so less is left up to unity doing it

Well if it's not rigged gonna be harder to switch the pose

[opal river]

I mean in general

if I'm making a new model now

when the arms are still detached

[fringe citrus]

It'll be easier to get a nice curve on the shoulder if you're modeling in A pose maybe. So yeah maybe model and rig in A-pose, but once the rigging is done, stick it in Tpose for using in vrc

only really need to do it if you have shoulder sagging issues

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

going Apose to Tpose will making the shoulder end up higher, for some models depending on how the shoulder mesh sits on the bone, Apose to Tpose could make the shoulder look up too high like shrugging or something

so only need to do it to fix the problem if you have it

[opal river]

alright, thanks so much again

gonna try it out in game now

[fringe citrus]

yeah sure no problem, also before you copy into unity

go with your old import and check the pose in humanoid rig configure and take a screenshot

then compare after you put the tposed one in

paying attention to shoulders

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

I'd be interested to see how it looks with your model if you don't mind posting here too

[opal river]

sure

one sec

[fringe citrus]

it's been my experience, but I always want more data points for testing stuff out 😁

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/NpgsEqe.png before

[fringe citrus]

huh, it's not so saggy looking there

well I hope it fixes it for you

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/Nj2F2oa.png after

[fringe citrus]

but the mesh looks better

[opal river]

wait might not have imported properly cause the elbows are still bent

downwards

[fringe citrus]

oh hmm, I see the bones lower in the mesh though

[opal river]

had to reset the pose

https://i.imgur.com/hMeFZrI.png

after reset and enforce t pose

[fringe citrus]

Hmm yeah doesn't look as different before and after as it usually looks for me, well whenever you can test in fbt let me know if it fixes it for you if you don't mind

[opal river]

well I don't have fbt

[fringe citrus]

oh I see, I guess then in 3point vr

[opal river]

yeah, can jump into vrc in a sec once my boss is done talking...

[fringe citrus]

haha, wow don't get fired 😅

[opal river]

work from home

[fringe citrus]

ah nice

yeah in your case I didn't test for 3point, this is a fix that seems to work in fbt, so I'm even more interested in your results

oh also, just in case because we did apply a new basis, if you're waiting to get in vr, might be good to scroll through your old shapekeys just to make sure they didn't decide to go crazy

[opal river]

kay, gonna jump in game now, one minute

[fringe citrus]

ok cool

[opal river]

already tested them

didn't notice anything weird

[fringe citrus]

ah nice

[opal river]

I've learned from my mistakes of messing around with shape keys so I usually check everything when I did any changes

[fringe citrus]

Hehe yeah me too. "Damn how many saves ago did I last check.... 30? .... 😭 "

[opal river]

wish you could check the version of the avatar in game, it's annoying having to change the upload image every time to make sure I can tell if I'm using the new version in game

[fervent hornet]

Just change the name slightly?

[opal river]

guess the servers are being slow to refresh again today

I don't wanna have 10 different avatars in my list

[fervent hornet]

"Avatar 1" "Avatar 2" ect

[fringe citrus]

Just detach pipeline manage thing

yeah and reupload as a new one

ah yeah if you don't want many though then it does clutter it up

[fervent hornet]

Just overwrite it with a small change to the name so you know it's the updated version. Having a bunch of versions just gets annoying imo

[opal river]

mh

[fringe citrus]

I have like 30 different broken copies of my avatar just for filming this newer tutorial I've been trying to make

[opal river]

😄

yeah in that case it makes sense

[worldly willow]

vrchat just needs a separate VR avatar viewer to test the model properly before uploading

as in-game and in unity tends to differ

has only been suggested 500 x since i started playing

[opal river]

ok so I don't think I notice any difference in teh shoulder slouching

[worldly willow]

😄

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/wD09VE8.png

https://i.imgur.com/telWevq.png

does this look like the heroic pose? I cna't really tell

what I notice is that when I stop walking the whole pelvis area tends to tip backwards a bit as well as the neck

like as if it's straightening out the whole spine area

[worldly willow]

yea .. that is not really fixable (it is the IK doing that

[fringe citrus]

that's likely because your hips aren't right above your thighs, but not totally sure. I don't do enough testing in 3point

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/4MoiW5w.png

[fringe citrus]

and yeah if you're not in fbt then the heroic pose stuff matters a lot less. Might as well look stylish 😎

your stomach etc isn't gonna match with your real one anyway in that case

[opal river]

okay, well I wanna get fbt at some point so I'd rather learn how to do it "right" from the start

[fringe citrus]

Now I'm curious if your shoulder sag was caused by something else, because your bones didn't really look so bad in your "before" humanoid config thing

I can say that in fbt these are my test results exactly https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390924372782612480/679312997457330215/unknown.png

same as from above

Are your arms too short for you in vr?

[opal river]

yeah mine looks basically like the above one

actually too long I think

if I stretch out my arms IRL they are still slightly bent in game

[fringe citrus]

Huh yeah that sounds like the default scaling if you use your real user real height

can you show a screenshot of your saggy shoulders in a mirror or something?

[opal river]

yeah

https://i.imgur.com/jKdj3km.png

this is me with my arms hanging relaxed besides my body

[fringe citrus]

Hmm yeah kinda rounded off, the only other thing I knew of that caused that is if your vr arms are too short so they get really yanked down when you rest your arms

your bones might be a little long, like the joint position in kinda close to the center, but that means you'd have to redo some rigging

a more easier fix is, that you can actually just force them to be higher

but you do it in unity rig config

so you'll have to redo every import

[opal river]

okay correction, if I stretch an arm out straight ahead of me it looks like it's almost the exact same length in game

[fringe citrus]

you could try increasing the user real height value to grow the vr world

and see if that fixes the shoulder sag

also play in "seated mode"

but toggle out then in when you're at a comfortable standing height

so it basically resets your standing height

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/dxZT2pI.png with just my arm straight not using my shoulder

[fringe citrus]

do you still get shoulder sag though with your vr arms too long like that?

[opal river]

from what I can tell yes

[fringe citrus]

(while playing in seated mode that was toggled in at your normal standing height)

[opal river]

oh, didn't try that yet

[fringe citrus]

it could be targeting your real height to be taller and putting the avatar too high so your arms pull it down

though tbh I haven't played much in 3point in years

but back then I used to use seated mode to reset my standing height and always just play in seated even when standing

[opal river]

is it normal that if I'm standing and togglign between seated and standing that the knees get more bent in seated mode which actually looks more correct than the straightened out legs in standing mode?

[fringe citrus]

yeah if your proportions are good

[worldly willow]

try to make the armature like this red is what i edited)

[fringe citrus]

you can actually sort of calibrate for your standing height like that

was gonna say, if want to force the shoulders higher, here's how:

rotate your bones like that in humanoid config

but this is more of a rig hack

and inconvenient to keep setting up

if you wanna try something kind of cool I can show you how I used to calibrate my leg proportions back before I had full body

[opal river]

that's a bit too much info right now

[fringe citrus]

or I mean calibrate legs for any avatar,

I mean it's just playing with user real height and seated mode toggle

not actually editing your avatar

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

ok so if it's not too much info, start out toggled into seated mode at your normal standing height

and see if you can reach the floor

or if it lines up with the real floor

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/EwoEjy0.jpg @worldly willow could you show me here what exactly you mean? the unity rig is confusing for me to look at

[fringe citrus]

(will always be playing in seated mode, only using standing mode to swap for re-toggling seated mode)

[opal river]

I can't reach the floor like that

never could really with any avatar

[fringe citrus]

if the floor is too far to reach, then decrease user real height and retoggle seated mode while standing at normal height

repeat until the floor is at just the right height

that's step one (only one more step after)

(this might result in arms too short if your avatar proportions are off, but still might be a cool experience for your leg presence if you've never felt it

)

[opal river]

yeah I can reach the floor now

[fringe citrus]

ok and lines up pretty well?

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

oh btw do you have toes mapped in your rig?

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

ok cool yeah need it for this

so yeah

looking in a mirror stand flat and then go on tiptoes a bit

see if your avatars toes do the same

[opal river]

yep, it does

[fringe citrus]

avatar's*

and bend knees slightly and see if it does

[opal river]

yup

[fringe citrus]

ah awesome, then you're good to go already, step two if you needed it was to stand normally but to hold your menu slightly up or down as you continue to retoggle seated mode forcing the toggle point to be slightly higher or lower as you look up or down

because looking up makes the hmd move up a little

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

when you find the exact angle that's right to hold head at when toggling you can hold your menu in that position and look at it and will get your hmd to be with sub centimeter accuracy of your best height

like if the knees seem to be locking too much you look up when you retoggle

[opal river]

and so I should just play in seated mode from now on?

[fringe citrus]

if your knees stay bent too much you look down

that's what I always did

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

the retoggle of seated is kinda similar to how full body users bind it their body

but yeah play around dancing around a little in the mirror

going on tiptoes and bending knees a bit

might give more leg presence than you've had before

(also floor matching is a bonus)

[opal river]

ok so different question

if I have my rest pose be a T pose like that, when I put it into unity and go to hte rig configurator, should it recognize it as T pose without me enforcing the T pose?

[fringe citrus]

Yeah I think

did you get red bones saying it was out of tpose?

[opal river]

like, is that a good yard stick to measure if my bones are "proper"

yeah

https://i.imgur.com/ThalCe8.png

[fringe citrus]

yeah that's because the arm is bent forward a little too much

as long as the elbow mathematically points back you're good

even if it's barely visible

here's mine:

[opal river]

okay, that's a lot more subtle than mine

[fringe citrus]

they're pointing back to be sure, but hard to see

[opal river]

so that might be it for the lower arm

[fringe citrus]

Also if you do this to force your shoulders up, the shoulders will go red:

but you can ignore if you wanna force shoulders up

it'll work, I used it before on a WoW orc model

[opal river]

okay

[fringe citrus]

with huge shoulders that needed to stay up or I looked like a rounded carrot or something

[opal river]

okay yeah it was my elbows being too bent that made the lower arm go red

now it's just asfew finger bones that are red

not gonna bother with those now tho

gonna start working on the next version soon anyways, just wanted to learn as much as I can from this one

[fringe citrus]

yeah it's interesting that you couldn't fix shoulder sag that way, I've got a bunch of examples of it fixing it for fbt

At least you can apply a new rest pose now though without CATs if you need to I guess

😁

[opal river]

yeah, thanks

I just don't like relying on a dozen tools without knowing what they're actually doing

once I know what is happening I don't mind using them, but I don't wanna blindly trust some random addon or tool

[fringe citrus]

Yeah I totally understand, I used to do it without the tool and I almost completely forgot how

[opal river]

maybe my shoulder sag comes from bad weight painting or rigging?

[fringe citrus]

Well it's more work to mess with, but if it were me I'd probably shorten the shoulders

so have the pivot further out from the center of the body

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/njbl28c.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZrLA7mJ.png

[fringe citrus]

you could try just moving the bones without changing weights and seeing if you get an improvment

then do the effort of weight cleanup if it seems like they're moving more nicely

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/KQJRs4D.png more like this?

[fringe citrus]

mine are here:

hmm

actually looking more at it

your shoulders are kinda down already

even just being in tpose

[opal river]

yeah, I noticed that too

so I guess I might've messed up with the model itself

[opal river]

https://i.imgur.com/da2nZtz.png

[opal river]

ya, so I modeled them too low

and my neck is a bit too thick

[fringe citrus]

a little, but our avatars are in different styles

[opal river]

yeah

but yeah, I guess the whole shoulder and arms should be a bit higher up

guess I should've looked at more reference

and I should probably only use the A pose to get the proportions right and then when I join everything together before doing retopo put it into T pose

to make sure everything lines up

well, lessons learned

thanks again so much, gonna work on my mask now for a bit and then start with the next avatar

[fringe citrus]

ah ok, was gonna say now that you know how to play in pose mode, you can fix stuff that way without needing to redo the modelling so much

get some mileage out of all your rigging work

for example:

[opal river]

mhm

[fringe citrus]

that was rotate shoulders up, with inherit rotation turned off on arms

then apply pose and rest

then edit bone position in edit mode to bring up the base of the shoulders so it's in line again

would need some weight cleaning for new pivot point but maybe not so much

[opal river]

yeah I don't really feel like messing around too much with that

I rather do it on a blank slate

[fringe citrus]

Yeah I can understand that, though you could also just get what you have into a nicer position then use that for a reference for your next model

[fickle dawn]

Gonna Make An Epic Supergirl In VRChat With Full Body Tracking and my flying cube

[fringe citrus]

Here's an example between my default pose and what it looks like yours ended up with to see how much angle difference you seem to have if you need a reference @opal river

anyway good luck 😁 👍

[opal river]

okay, but yeah it's still an issue with the base model isn't it

not just the rig

[fringe citrus]

Yeah but because it's rigged you can fix your mesh more easily than using other modeling tools like proportional editing or going back and resculpting or making new polys from scratch if you do the poly modeling method instead of retopo a sculpt

or whatever method you'd normally use to make a nice mesh

like just because your mesh is a little off, if the rigging is good, you've basically got a posable doll figure thing, and you can do some final tweaks using your armature

if you make a lot of changes you might run into issues with topology resolution where you've pinched or stretched a lot with bone rotations

but I think your shoulders should be pretty fixable and not really require redoing from scratch or anything

[opal river]

okay... maybe I'll try it when I'm feeling less lazy

right now I'm trying to figure out what my workflow should look like in the future...

I'm doing the sculpting + retopo workflow

[fringe citrus]

I'd say if anything it's worth playing around with at least to help you understand what positions work nicely for your next model

[opal river]

mh

[fringe citrus]

I'm bad at sculpting personally and just use the poly extrude method looking at references

[sleek isle]

But if you have the shoulder that up angle it stay like that in desktop mode.. each plateform work differently

[fringe citrus]

I need to practice sculpting more

[opal river]

why do we use A pose specifically again? so we get better topology in the shoulders when doing the retopo/modeling?

[fringe citrus]

yeah, the rig back of making shoulders go up in the humanoid rig config will screw with other IK methods

Easier to get nice curve on shoulders, like you can make it compress nicely into an appropriate shape with tweaking your weights as you test Tposeed arms when rigging

but yeah harder to think ahead about what topolgy you'd need for the shoulder contour when your arm is down and you'd basically build your normal shoulder contour all in weight painting while you have arms posed down

you could do it either way though

it's like knees

and usually you'd model them with legs mostly straight

and deal with the curve in weight painting

so can do that with shoulders too, just thinking ahead about higher res topo there

so really just either way

maybe practicing both would get skills up? 🤷

[opal river]

well I'm just thinking it would be easier to get the arm, hand and fingers straight in T pose

[fringe citrus]

Yeah for sure, extruding polys is nicer that way too

[opal river]

yeah

so I guess I should sculpt all the limbs detached in A pose to get the proportions right, put everything in T pose and merge it together to clean up the transitions, and then do retopo

[fringe citrus]

oh I had a typo way above @sleek isle rig hack* not rig back

[opal river]

and just have to think ahead that I need more topology in the shoulders

[fringe citrus]

tbh I don't do enough of it give advice on best workflow

[opal river]

rig everything, put it in A pose and check if it deforms nicely and add topology if needed

[fringe citrus]

but I'd say get good with working with it in polys

so you don't feel like it's all lost once you've done your retopo from the sculpt

like I see my body mesh as nothing set in stone

I'll keep messing with it if I see anything I don't like, because why not?

[opal river]

yeah, I'm just trying to find the least destructive workflow

so if something needs changing somewhere down the line it's easy to change

[fringe citrus]

Yeah thinking about over time how your ideal topology will deviate from how you set it out at first retopo if you keep editing things

[opal river]

I guess I could also try to sculpt and retopo the hands separately and then join them up to the rest of the mesh in A pose

and retopo the body in A pose

[fringe citrus]

But like just get good at adding more topology resolution and fixing/avoiding the resulting uv troubles etc

[opal river]

yeah topology manipulation still gives me knots in my brain

for some reason i'm just bad at rearranging the topology, playing with poles and stuff

like, my brain just can't grasp it

[fringe citrus]

using subdivide tools can keep uvs intact

ah yeah, well if you want really beautiful topology, sure manage the poles and stuff

I have some nasty poles on my mesh

well not nasty

but not that pretty either, but I don't use my normals for smooth lighting so I don't have to worry about it standing out

like you only really need to worry so much if you have some nice glossy or very smooth shaded surface that's really gonna show minor topology flaws

but good to get good at I guess

my socks are decimated and I just go with that hehe

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

only way to keep cloth sim uvs totally intact

[opal river]

yeah I guess the take away from this model is to test everything more in game once the rigging is done so I can spot possible issues early

while I can still easily manipulate the topology

[fringe citrus]

I love vrc for that instant gratification for testing and trying stuff

so motivating to mess around with something and actually have people to show minutes after it's done

and get instant feedback from other people who have been doing the same kind of thing

[opal river]

ya

[sleek isle]

Shoulder shoulder. Always fun https://gyazo.com/c1482a5ac87c4a9744fa3622b92b468a but when it work. Feel good. (Repost from earlier)

[opal river]

https://i.redd.it/mwv1bsadbnh41.png I feel attacked

[manic marsh]

oh god they aint even facing the right direction :notlikethis:

[grave mantle]

stealing that meme Szena

[tardy talon]

https://i.redd.it/mwv1bsadbnh41.png
lol

i made bones for this bug and i cant seem to atatch them

[tawny silo]

well first of all they are child of the mesh

[dense widget]

fun fact: Rigging is not that hard when you learn the basics

[tardy talon]

well first of all they are child of the mesh
@tawny silo how do i do that

?

[tawny silo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2pTkW-1JkE

[fervent hornet]

Rigging only gets complicated when Final IK and non humanoids get involved. Otherwise it just takes a while.

Rigging only gets complicated when Final IK and non humanoids get involved. Otherwise it just takes a while.

Rigging only gets complicated when Final IK and non humanoids get involved. Otherwise it just takes a while.

[bold locust]

Posted when Discord spazzed, I assume.

[fading verge]

Dw about the weight paint but why are my hips bending

[crystal vector]

@fringe citrus @opal river Hahaha I just read your conversation about applying the tpose as rest pose without using cats but in the end you still used cats 😆 👌
That "Apply selected shapekey as Basis" is a function added by Cats as well, it's just not that obvious to see.
If you want to do it completely without cats, here is how: https://nixart.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/modifying-the-rest-pose-in-blender/

[vernal onyx]

Rigging is relatively simple, but weight painting is the real pain

Specifically when anatomy is involved. It requires you to actually know something about how the body functions. Shoulders are the worst, imo

[crisp tendon]

Weight painting is only as hard as how bad your topology is tbh

[fading verge]

So uhh why in the pic above is my avatar doing that

Only happens w fbt

[crisp tendon]

Did you try rotating your hip tracker

[fading verge]

I dont have fbt but i ve had ppl trying it out its always same

Here is the rig

[crisp tendon]

make sure the armature is symmetrical and that all transforms/bone rolls are applied

[fading verge]

How would i make it symmetrical

And also wdym are applied

[crisp tendon]

ah, also your neck bone is too far away from chest

you have symmetrize tools in blender, and in edit mode when you select all bones you can do "Clear Rolls"

in object mode with everything selected do ctrl + a and apply all transforms

[fading verge]

Okay il try

[opal river]

@crystal vector I didn't use cats oO oh I didn't know that

thanks for the link

so how exactly does cats apply the rest pose then? cause I already had shape keys on the mesh so I couldn't just apply the armature modifier

ah, wait... there is an "apply > pose as rest pose"... nevermind, I just woke up so ignore me

[fading verge]

Cats keeps removing my weight painted bones

Even when i dont have any boxes selected

[remote barn]

@fringe citrus extremely late response to what you said yesterday morning to me but there is definitely something different about arm and shoulder rotation within the open beta compared to live release. I went into both builds with the same exact model and noticed VAST improvements on my end, not just from other people and networked IK, although I'm aware of the huge improvements networked IK has as well in the beta build

[fading verge]

@crisp tendon what exactly do you mean by symmetrize tools i cant find

okay; so basically I'm working on a general grievous avatar

anyone got any ideas on how I can make him good for vrchat?

[worldly willow]

found this as a good reference image (when rigging ,the top arms seem to be like wings (attached to the chest bone or shoulder bones) (maybe FIK can make you move them together with the regular arms)

@fading verge

[fading verge]

thanks Neko

I was actually thinking about putting the back arm stuff together with the front arms by parenting them

[fading verge]

he's fixed

[steady spruce]

Look here look listen

[fading verge]

what is it lasagna cat?

I told you he's fixed

[wild owl]

hiya does anyone how to fix this, ive had it for ages and never bothered fixing it cuz i didnt know how, how should hip and leg bones ideally look like ? @_@ thanku in advance

nevermind, figured out i just have to flip the hip bone upside down @_@ big bwain

[fervent hornet]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/full-body-tracking

The docs should be followed regardless of FBT tracking as that's how the devs have the IK set up for ideally

[wild owl]

thanky

❤️

[native shuttle]

does anyone have a good fbx of a male body type of bones that will work with full body

[crisp tendon]

there is one in the SDK

tpose-new

[native shuttle]

do you know how to fix when you cant get close to your avatar @crisp tendon

https://gyazo.com/4f7414990b05d9759e56367ada36105c

[drowsy wharf]

camera clip distance in the sidebar

[native shuttle]

can you show me where is that @drowsy wharf

[drowsy wharf]

which blender version?

[native shuttle]

2.8

[drowsy wharf]

can't help you more then

[native shuttle]

🤔

[drowsy wharf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DT0dtarYv4

[native shuttle]

yeah just found that video

lol

thank you though

fixed my issue

[crisp tendon]

Or press . on numpad

[bronze fern]

or just dont work with microscopic models

[turbid spear]

Slide the near plane to 0.0001 and apply as startup file smh

[sleek isle]

what about now. repost down . sec

[bronze fern]

i cannot tell the difference

oh the ears

2

[sleek isle]

dont mind the hair

going to change give me a min

[turbid spear]

I like 2 ears most

[sleek isle]

didnt see the ears go distort when I move it so here another one

[crisp tendon]

What is different from 1 and 2 ?

[turbid spear]

Pretty hard to tell the difference honestly, but I'll say 2

My guess is head size

At least between 2 and 3

[native shuttle]

https://gyazo.com/1f4f32a798103d8f4c4787a98aec5b5a

how can i fix the ball from connecting correctly? right now the bottom ball wants to connect to the upper ball when its suppose to be the upper ball from the bottom bone connect to the upper bones bottom ball

if you get what im saying

[sleek isle]

parent that one to that one

[native shuttle]

bone heat weighting failed to find solution for one or more bones how can i solve that error without messing up my model?

[worldly willow]

manually doing the weightpaint

[crisp tendon]

2

[sleek isle]

that was fast

[crisp tendon]

1 head size is too big

[boreal oasis]

2

[sleek isle]

I keep making the head smaller and smaller

the more the body is proportional the more the head feel off

let me put the original one beside 2

[crisp tendon]

ye v4 is nice

[orchid ruin]

I like v4

Think what's kinda off is not the head but the shoulders I feel like they are too square (opinion of someone that does not know how to 3d model)

[manic marsh]

V1 was legs for daaays

[crisp tendon]

shoulders are very square when looking at female anatomy it seems

[orchid ruin]

In female anatomy the shoulders are normally the same size or smaller than the hips and I think they look a little too big

[crisp tendon]

oh that's just the anime proportions lol

[native shuttle]

can one just have 1 shapekey for a visemei? like just a ah every time the person talks? also can anyone link me a video how to create visemes for models with no jaw bones

[worldly willow]

@sleek isle this may help 🙂

@native shuttle set it to jaw blend shape instead of visemes

[native shuttle]

do i need to create a mouth shapekey still

in blender

[worldly willow]

you still need to have a shape key made yea

[native shuttle]

can you link me to a video where a person explains how to do viseme shape keys with no jaw bones?

[worldly willow]

https://youtu.be/0WyUhUtryZw

[native shuttle]

thank you

[drowsy wharf]

if you set up a jaw bone you can technically just use "jaw flap" setting and have your jawbone defined in the humanoid rig. No viseme needed...though it'll just be flapping up and down as the name states

but honestly if you set up a jaw bone, you might as well make the 3 shapes CATS needs and let it autofill anyway

[teal badge]

You can probably make the head a bit bigger on that model and strike a good balance between 4 and 1

[sleek isle]

The ik rotate the shoulder bone down am foword and have less sqeeze in fbt inthis position

[crisp tendon]

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1W5KFa_aszCMrJaFD8mb9a-GHYO4X4S9M63GjM4UwuEw/pub

@native shuttle ^

[worldly willow]

someone can tell me how i can merge twist bones to regular bones without getting the weightpainting messed up ( for instance having part of the arm stuck in place etc)

so many biped humanoid rigged models i have that are a no go thanks to these bones

[fervent hornet]

You should merge the twist bones to their parents via CATs

[worldly willow]

tried ... does not fix the weightpaint at all so the spot that has the twist bone is just stuck in place when you move the limb

[fervent hornet]

Then the model was bad from the start or you merged it wrong. You can always merge to active if the parenting scheme is incorrect

Worst case you can just ignore the twist bones as the model should work with them involved

[sleek isle]

Maybe tge bone was parent to the wrong one. That happen with rip stuff

[native shuttle]

so i made eyelid bones and weight painted the eye lids so that they can create a open close thing, how do i make it a shape key? im lost

[remote barn]

@native shuttle I'm pretty sure you can pose the bones to whatever you want and then in CATS click "Pose to Shape Key" button that sits at the top and of the CATS panel and do it that way

[native shuttle]

it tells me an error

@remote barn

[remote barn]

What's the error?

[native shuttle]

hold on

@remote barn

[crisp tendon]

Why is your arm raised for an eyelid shapekey

[native shuttle]

o

uh

i was testing weights

does it need to be down

[crisp tendon]

Yeah, that's not a good way to make shapekeys

you should make a copy of your basis shapekey, then edit that into what you need

[native shuttle]

but how do i edit that

im so noob at shapekeys

[crisp tendon]

you press tab

that's edit mode

[native shuttle]

cant i press the plus for a new shape key or does it have to be a copy of the basis @crisp tendon

[crisp tendon]

you can also do that if your model is correctly posed

[native shuttle]

does the mesh have to be together or do i have to combined meshes then create the basis shape key and then create a new shape key @crisp tendon

[crisp tendon]

No, only do shapekeys on the face/head mesh if you can

But you should merge everything before export

once you've made all shapekeys

[native shuttle]

ok i did it now im in edit mode what do i do now @crisp tendon

[crisp tendon]

make your shapekey

[native shuttle]

how

[crisp tendon]

edit the mesh ??

[native shuttle]

but ive got bones that make his eyes close already

[crisp tendon]

then undo all the poses you have and do what Generic suggested earlier

If you have errors with cats then https://discord.gg/zq7tue

[drowsy wharf]

@native shuttle if you're using CATS, you can just click "start pose mode" pose the avatar into the pose you want and click "pose to shape key"
Just be aware, anything you edit in pose mode will also be added to this shape key.

So if you're testing weights, remember to stop and re start pose mode before making new shape keys this way. (or select all bones and hit Alt+R, Alt+G, Alt+S to reset rotation, position, and scale)

You should also check to make sure CATS is updated in the "Settings & Updates" section

[glacial tide]

Is there a way to properly rig a character wearing clothes where they don't have a body mesh underneath the clothes? Also multiple layers of clothes? I'm struggling here it just ends up being a mess xD

[worldly willow]

just rig as if there is a body under it

@glacial tide

only the weightpaint might be trickier

[glass panther]

Rigging an Animal Crossing character would still require to atleast map the finger/feet bones to work in vrchat im assuming? Since the characters have stubby arms and feet.

[turbid spear]

Yeah, but you can have empty bones for that

As in that aren't painted to anything, just parented

[warped solstice]

I need a mod to help me with this or just someone that will be able to help me with it

@crude magnet could you possibly help me with this issue?

[crude magnet]

No

[warped solstice]

shoot

do you know anyone that possibly could?

[crude magnet]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warped solstice]

maybe Ruuubick?

[crisp tendon]

You have two models in your scene, the other one could be preventing upload

[warped solstice]

@crisp tendon which one would i need to delete?

[crisp tendon]

disable the one you don't want to upload

[warped solstice]

this better? Also can i just start a video call with you to make this easier?

hello?

[crisp tendon]

nope just upload your model lol

[warped solstice]

lel now it works XD

also im glad unity finally works for me now

now what do i need to select in the File Explorer popup when i try to publish and upload the avatar?

@crisp tendon

[crisp tendon]

your scene file

[turbid spear]

It's just asking you to save your scene because it's not saved

[warped solstice]

oh lel XD

[sleek isle]

this ideal proportion quest get out of hand

[crisp tendon]

Vitrius man is literally the perfection, that's aiming very high

[fading verge]

I should be able to export a model from Maya with rigging to Unity right?

[sleek isle]

I wanted to see how my edit was with that ratio and it was exactly the same

[fading verge]

Do I need any skin weight at all?

Or how do I get the entire model to stop distorting when I move limbs, I'd prefer for nothing to deform since it's not supposed to

[sleek isle]

weightpaint

[fading verge]

Ah okay, thx

Can I rig just in unity or do I need to use blender or maya or something

oh, nvm, I have to use blender

Rigging sure seems like a nightmare

[sleek isle]

nah

fun time

[fading verge]

Maybe someday I'll see it that way but this is hell right now

I mean he LITERALLY can not have a spine

I've been on this for hours

[fringe citrus]

@opal river Figured out why your shoulders worked but usually shoulders sag in A-pose. When enforcing the T-pose in unity, the arms are straightened but shoulders retain (seems like) exactly their original orientation. So if for example, the A-pose had shoulders down by 15 degrees and arms down by an additional 30 degrees to get a gradual 45 degree slope, the arms will be straigtened but the shoulders retain the 15 degree down slope. Thus the saggy shoulders. Your model however had shoulder bones already exactly straight, so when unity slapped the T-pose on and straightened the arms and left the shoulders alone it actually ended up good. (aside from the rigging position we talked about) But that's why nothing changed when going T-pose for you.

This angle remains the same:

[opal river]

ah, that's good to know

side question, how does the "math" between this vitruvian man thing work? the center of the square is where the crotch should be, and the center of the circle at the belly button?

can't seem to find a proper explanation on google

and I get that those are "ideal" realistic proportions, but I guess you can use those to then play around and morph them into something more stylized right? like making the legs a bit longer while shortening the torso a bit and similar?

[brittle jacinth]

volume weighting?

[fringe citrus]

@opal river this section on wikipedia has a translation of the text above and below that describes the proportions* removed link due to embedding and the um... anatomical parts in the image shown

just look under "Translation_of_the_text" on wikipedia: Vitruvian Man

[fading verge]

Does this look okay

idk if that can even be answered with a screenshot

[opal river]

@fringe citrus thanks, I watched a video that translated the text and I've kinda known most of these meassurements, but I meant more if there's some specific mathematic relation between the size of the square and circle

also I noticed that a lot of anime styled models on sketchfab for instance don't fit even close in that square, their arms are always like at least one hand length too short

which I guess comes from just making the legs longer without making the torso shorter when playing with proportions?

no wait, then they'd be even shorter

[fringe citrus]

Or just the legs longer in general

yeah if you make everything fit but ignore the legs, and let them hang out too far there's a decent change that the navel and crotch will be sort of ok when the arms line up

and the legs would hang out the bottom of everything

if you just tried fixing the arms, the navel and crotch would be too high usually I think

[opal river]

yeah

[fringe citrus]

so it's the legs that are long, not arms too short... well I mean it's varying amounts of both

[opal river]

the hands would like reach down to your knees then

[fringe citrus]

but mostly legs usually I think

[opal river]

yeah, "TDA legs"

so I guess for my style I don't wanna play with the length as much and rather with the thickness to still be proportionally realistic for the most parts

ie thicker thighs and slimmer torso ot balance it out

or bigger bust and slimmer legs

[fringe citrus]

Yeah or if you want the legs to look a bit "longer" you can slim the legs too

[opal river]

yeah

guess I learned something I've only "felt" subconsciously so far

guess that'd also explain why all my concepts looked very off when I tried to give them thicker thighs and make the legs longer/torso shorter

[fringe citrus]

Wacky proportions though can let you escape the uncanny valley on the stylized side though

fixing it might land up back in uncanny

[opal river]

yeah, if you actually commit to the super stylized part

and not do it half assed like I tried

trying to keep some things realistic but over accentuate other parts

well, yay for learning something

your whole "think of the avatar as a costume" advice actually really helped a lot to see things in a different light when modeling

it makes sense to play with the proportions a lot more if it's not meant to be "worn" I guess, otherwise I think it can feel really off when playing in it

[fringe citrus]

Glad if I helped 😁 yeah if you don't mind it feeling like a mascot suit too you can go really crazy with proportions

nothing wrong with that and tons of fun to be had. but the immersion of fitting well in FBT is really awesome too

[opal river]

yeah

and I want the model to be as immersive as possible for me

right now I'm just modeling for myself

for... various reasons

anyways, now I just gotta find the motivation to start practicing sculpting again >_>

[fringe citrus]

Yeah I thought your model looked really cool. Hope you don't throw it all away from the shoulder issues

[opal river]

wanna find my style of head/face that I'm happy with

well there's many other issues so I'm really only using her in private worlds with friends

I learned a lot from her, so now I want to move on and apply what I learned from my mistakes on the next iteration

[fringe citrus]

Best of luck. I should really do that more. I keep drilling down on old stuff trying to improve it rather than start over. Have lots of hold-over stuff. My head itself is still from and MMD source because I couldn't make an anime style I was happy with. I want to get around to redoing it though

I've got some ideas for how it should look, I need to buckle down and draw it rather than try without making a concept art first...

[opal river]

ya

[fringe citrus]

But so many other projects and I'm used to it now too

[opal river]

sadly I'm not very good at drawing so I'll rather try and sculpt it

[fringe citrus]

Body is easy to redo and not feel like you're not "who you've been" or whatever

but new face would take getting used to

[opal river]

mhm

[fringe citrus]

Also put a ton of work in rigging the hair, then re-rigging when performance ratings came out for bone counts, then making the full set of visemes etc etc

much harder to make it work under bone counts on hair

[opal river]

I've never been happy with the faces I made, 2d or 3d, so I wanna focus on that right now

but it's kinda tough getting started again right now

[fringe citrus]

I should try sculpting. So far I've been doing poly extrude, connect etc with subdivision to give it an organic softness

[opal river]

I can't do poly modeling from thin air

[fringe citrus]

@fading verge Oh btw I have some suggestions for you, I might have missed some stuff here:

I feel the poly modeling is easier to tweak by grabbing individual vertices and seeing how it changes the subdivided results

[fading verge]

This whole rigging process has been a nightmare

[fringe citrus]

You have a really unique model. Really nice meta-verse vibe

but yeah hard to rig that

[fading verge]

Thanks! It's from a game called the eastern mind

[fringe citrus]

So I suggest you make the first joint in the "arms" the shoulders

[fading verge]

I see

[fringe citrus]

because otherwise the circle part is gonna collapse like a wet donut when you move your arms

[fading verge]

Well that's the other problem, it's not supposed to deform at all

None of it should, which is why I rigged it in Maya and fixed all the weight paint

[fringe citrus]

oh, in that case, make the entire spine chain really tiny and in the middle somewhere

[fading verge]

Ohh

[fringe citrus]

weight everything to the hips or spine or whichever ends up working best for IK

then have the neck on the top ball, and head on the top large ring

because the tiny spine chain inside isn't gonna be able to move around very much with really short bones it shouldn't drag stuff around too much

[fading verge]

I see

[fringe citrus]

you have advantage of separated meshes at the neck and head too

so no need to worry about crazy tearing

[fading verge]

True

[fringe citrus]

careful how tiny or messed up you make it though, the IK is gonna freak out probably

[fading verge]

Let me find the skeleton I made in Maya, it was a lot simpler

[fringe citrus]

it'll be a balancing act, but in general I suggest basically negating all the armature motion in that area by making the bones really small and weighting to only one of them

[fading verge]

Well, I might not even need to use blender since I had the maya rig

aaa brb

[fading verge]

Nooooo

When I open the file the rig breaks

I'm about to just pay someone to rig this, It's so frustrating

[keen mortar]

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing discussion - Is bad looking crouching usually a rig problem, weight issue or just a 'short legs' thing?

[crisp tendon]

More of a leg size problem in this case

[keen mortar]

If that's the case I'll probably just leave it like this then

[fading verge]

Do I need a spine? Can I just manually add joints like this

Does labelling joints actually do anything or is it just a name

[turbid spear]

You need to make a unity humanoid

[fading verge]

When will this nightmare be over

[turbid spear]

So all the animations would work as expected

[fading verge]

Well I don't really need animations

[turbid spear]

Well what do you need

[fading verge]

Just want to use it in VR

[turbid spear]

If you need a constant tpose with no movement then it's done

[fading verge]

O

[turbid spear]

If you want to be able to move the arms then it's not

[fading verge]

Even in VR?

[turbid spear]

Especially in vr

[fading verge]

Ouch

[turbid spear]

You don't need much tho

[fading verge]

So I need a skeleton?

[turbid spear]

Look in this channel's pins

[fading verge]

Oh okay

[turbid spear]

You'll get the bones you need in an image

Not more, not less

All the bones that would be missing (like extra fingers) you would need to add dummy bones for (not weighted to anything but still parented to hand)

The names matter if you want eyes to blink and so on

[fading verge]

I see

Why can't it just be easy 😔

[turbid spear]

And if you want unity to fill in the bones automatically

[fading verge]

Well I'm sure it is

I just make everything really confusing and not doing it right

[turbid spear]

It's not that hard but requires some experience

And because your avatar is non standard it's a bit more difficult

[fading verge]

Well I had a fully rigged one with a normal skeleton, horribly unoptimized but it seems to have worked

Yeah

[turbid spear]

No reason for it to be unoptimized

It looks fairly simple

[fading verge]

I made it for a high quality render, and for some reason I chose to use the same model for the avatar

I'd probably have to recreate the whole thing but not with so many polys

every part is high poly

[turbid spear]

Just decimate it a bit

For simple shapes it should do a fairly good job or do a retopology

Single it's a simple shape

[fading verge]

Maya has never been good for me, I always seem to have massive problems no one else has

I don't really care if it's badly unoptimized currently though

Does the spine need to be connected to the other joints though?\

[turbid spear]

It has to be parented but it doesn't have to be connected i think

[fading verge]

Oh okay

[turbid spear]

Same for all the bones

So you could cheat and make the spine empty and tiny and the whole middle torus thing the chest

or something like that

[fading verge]

maybe

[fading verge]

Figured it all out, just redid everything in maya

But I'm not sure how to make the rig humanoid

[turbid spear]

In unity, click the fbx and in the inspector click on rig, then change it from generic to humanoid. Click apply, then click configure

[fading verge]

Ohh okay, thank you

[turbid spear]

https://puu.sh/ENvVy/07c2f347d7.png

[fading verge]

Hm

[turbid spear]

Click the fbx

[fading verge]

Oh whoops

[turbid spear]

the model file

And you need to move the viewpoint in the avatar descriptor for the viewpoint to be where you expect

Move it into your head by messing with the numbers

[fading verge]

OH

Okay

Am I somehow being stupid enough to select the wrong thing again?

OH

Nvm got it lol

Oh no

[fading verge]

smh

oh got it

[sleek isle]

seem right proportion I think. there so much body type anyway. have to find the balance with it

[crisp tendon]

Looks right !

[worldly willow]

something i noticed ,the in-game neck bone is bit larger then proportionate ..seen a few of my own and others neck getting a bit stretched ..both fbt as non fbt models

not insane but it does make you think something is off

[umbral lichen]

Any good points to take for full body to work? I don't have full body so i can't test them myself

[sleek isle]

Not having the legs too long.

[umbral lichen]

Is that all?

[mild stratus]

You’ll have to make sure proportions are correct.

[umbral lichen]

As compared to a rig that works with full body or..?

[mild stratus]

Just compared to the average human. Which most human rigs should be based on.

[umbral lichen]

Gotcha

Time to take a picture of myself Tposing

[mild stratus]

A standard human rig should work.

[umbral lichen]

Oh

[mild stratus]

Or you could do your idea, if you decide to get full-body at some point

[umbral lichen]

I do want it, it's a matter of time and money

But i have to upgrade my vr first

But thankies, i'll have my friends test out the fullbody rig

[mild stratus]

K

[pine topaz]

Avatar keeps sinking into the floor with full body, what is wrong?

Need help quickly.

please... help :(

[sweet tundra]

this might be a unity problem

did you put animations on it?

[pine topaz]

yes but I do believe it's a rigging issue

it's not doing the crouching thing, but my hands stay above the floor

and my whole body sinks into the ground

[sweet tundra]

oh

ive had that before

check the armature in unity

for the legs

it prob doesnt have ik

[pine topaz]

what??

[sweet tundra]

in unity

hit select

[pine topaz]

it says something about an angle between the thigh and hips

it's a humanoid.

[sweet tundra]

yeah

but it still might have a problem

[pine topaz]

what's the problem then?

[sweet tundra]

next to the humanoid thing hit configure

[pine topaz]

ok

[sweet tundra]

take a screenshot of the armature on the right

[pine topaz]

...on the right?

you mean in the view

[pine topaz]

wait

oh my

there's an "armature" bone set to hip

I fixed it

I'm so mad

reeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sweet tundra]

reupload it should be fine

[pine topaz]

yep. I'll try that

🤦‍♂️

[sweet tundra]

I have a piece of clothing i want to parent to a bones
the problem is, that its on the leg so i need it to also parent to the another bone
how would i do this

[turbid spear]

weight paint it to both using blender

[naive tree]

@pine topaz your chest bone is most likely too big

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/438185599363710977/665303156821065784/unknown.png is a pretty good bone structure

your leg/hips need to be in line

chest bone not too big

[stone trellis]

Does anyone have any examples of bone placement in feet with high heels that works okay with full body? My rig has toe bones but I can ditch those if they're unnecessary

I'm under the impression that if I put the rotation point on the ankles of the model, the game will just consider my irl feet's positions at the time of calibrating and rotate based on that, as opposed to snapping the feet weirdly?

[fervent hornet]

Yeah the head of the foot should be at the ankle and it will work fine. Might be best to remove the toe bones since you cant really be tiptoes in high heels anyways

[warm pumice]

for the VR Chat IK, is the rotation of the model bones important? or is it more important for the bone size ratios to be correct?

[sleek isle]

0

[fervent hornet]

Bone rolls can break things and cause candy-wrapper joints while bone size rations is very important for FBT tracking.

[drowsy wharf]

The rolls don't have to be zero, but they do all have to be the same. Zero is just easier, select all bones and Alt+R to reset to 0.

[warm pumice]

@fervent hornet @drowsy wharf Thanks, that explains a ton of the issues I was having before!

[opal river]

so has anyone here ever tried AutoRig Pro?

is it usable for avatars?

[fading verge]

hey, it low key annoys me that my instep doesn't bend when I walk. (because if you don't disable them on the rig you walk on your tip toes) Is it possible to put like a collider on the ground and enable collisions for the toe bones? would that work?

[fading verge]

could someone in call help me with a rig

[turbid spear]

try it and tell us

[fading verge]

ok

https://i.gyazo.com/1fa27c72ced1571732141f2d7ffd04ba.png

doing that

so i need a spine

but i dont know how to rig a spine to it

pls help

[fading verge]

unfortunately you rig the spine exactly how you think..this model will take a very VERY long time to paint weights.

[turbid spear]

he probably already has one

just doesn't know you need to assign it in unity

[dry pollen]

Any good tutorials on how to make an avatar from scratch?

I mean from modeling it to rigging to unity

[turbid spear]

Ask in #3d-modeling

[fading verge]

HI

got the spine

but if i go in vrc my view shoots out of map

[dense stump]

did you put the avatar descriptor ball between the eyes?

[fading verge]

yes

[dense stump]

Strange

When u fixed the spine, did u do the thing where u replaced the old avatar in the project directly via naming it the same and saving over it?

Cuz that can cause strangeness. Usually more with animations

Other than that uh. Check ur shapekeys to make sure one isnt yeeting ur avatar

[cunning willow]

Hey I this is classified as rigging but anyone know how to make a chain

[opal river]

so, I assume having too much topology in an area that compresses would have negative effects just like having too little topology in an area that stretches would, right?

[fading verge]

My knees buckle into my chest when I crouch in fullbody, is there an easy fix for this?

[fading verge]

Why is my rigging going backwards

[fading verge]

God this is irriating

[drowsy wharf]

@opal river that really depends on how it's laid out, if the topology is close together and each part just compacts a little more, then it'd be fine. However if it's spread out and it compacts (depending on how much) it might look worse.
Generally speaking though, more topo is better, look at faces and mouths for a good example. They almost always have significantly more topo than other areas for a reason.

[opal river]

okay

[drowsy wharf]

@fading verge I'd guess your legs proportions are too long compared to the body. Also make sure your hip is straight up, and the upper legs are straight down.
Hip should also be above (slightly behind can also help positionally) the upper leg bones.

@fading verge not sure exactly what you're saying, are you losing bones and weighting?
Or did you mean something else instead of rigging?

[fading verge]

NAH

oof

nvm

For some reason when i rigged the avatar

i rigged it while the Z of the Skeleton was the wrong

way

i just had to flip it around and re-rig the skeleton

[native shuttle]

https://gyazo.com/22c375143bc29d47d8401ec4881ae96a

is it okay to make the shoulder bone bigger or the arm bones bigger?

[turbid spear]

Should be

[drowsy wharf]

@native shuttle you can also just not have the shoulder bones "connected" to the chest and position them near the arms

[sleek isle]

that model might not work that well in vrc. depend how you weightpaint the head you might see stuff appear in your field of view. you can always use stancil shader to prevent that but that another story

[drowsy wharf]

you could also just make sure you have backface culling for whatever shader you use so you wouldn't see it either way (unless you slide out the back somehow)

[native shuttle]

so dont connect the shoulders to chest? @drowsy wharf

[drowsy wharf]

parent them yes, connect is another option you can change

[finite current]

Make sure forearm is more towards front and knees more towards front or it make weird flips

[errant elk]

i have dynamic bones on my avatar it works fine in unity but when i import it into unity there arent any

[icy sail]

Im currently working on an avatar that has the blink set as a sperate texture as the open eyed and there is no animation for blink. I was wondering if there is anyway I can still animate blinking by swapping the textures

[drowsy wharf]

@icy sail go check #animation I just explained how to do it for emission, a different eye texture is the same way

[icy sail]

oki

[drowsy wharf]

you don't need a different material for it in that case though, you can put them all on one material the way you do for a normal texture atlas...you just move a part back and forth

[chrome jungle]

So ; I have two hands working fine on oculus / vive but bad on Valve knuckles

Anyone would have some infos ?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/665009297599758346/683774853995561015/VRChat_1920x1080_2020-03-01_21-36-58.876.png

That's the result using knuckles :^)

Update: nevermind ; The weight painting was bad and I didn't remember that I fixed it the lazy way with animations files :^)

[steady patio]

@fading verge additionally, i would say that it would be fine if unity can interpret it as a humanoid rig, but because VRChat is fucking pissy about bone hierarchies and case sensitive naming i am not sure

But it shouldnt be much of a stretch to turn that rig into a boring old armature

[fading verge]

hmm im thinking that maybe that could work but im a fullbody user and I'd have to do some work in blender to make it ready for that @steady patio

[steady patio]

Ah no it should take like 3 seconds

[fading verge]

im gonna put my question here as well just in case uvu

[steady patio]

FBT got better after some updates so dumb things like the CAT's full body dix are optional

Really you only need to worry about hip and leg placement

Everything else is proportions

[fading verge]

ive tried models without the full body fix and they havent worked for me at least ;;

[steady patio]

Weird

Define not working

[fading verge]

like, the hip will be displaced for example

or the knees wont bend correctly

[steady patio]

that just sounds weird

[fading verge]

thats what it always did to me unless i made it ready for fullbody

[steady patio]

Would still take 3 seconds anyway since the button still exists

[fading verge]

but the problem is, is that i cant even add fullbody tracking as far as it seems because it needs specifically named bones

and i dont even know where any of the bones are in here

its not something im used to at all, like im used to putting in a model and seeing bones nearly right away

https://prnt.sc/ra2ase

and i cant fix the model in cats coz https://prnt.sc/ra2aw1

https://prnt.sc/ra2bxh now i see bones here obviously but its got too many for vrchat

im gonna try and export it as an fbx and then messing with it maybe? but itll take a long time to export as far as i know

[drowsy wharf]

most likely you don't have the mesh parented to the armature, as the error states

hierarchy helps

[fading verge]

hmm im just not sure what all im gonna have to parent but i could try doin that maybe

exporting it as an fbx isnt gonna work coz it just stays frozen

[drowsy wharf]

well yeah, if the mesh isn't parented to the armature (and weighted) it's not going to move

[fading verge]

it does move though uvu

im wanting to just fix it so i can put it into vrchat

and not have all the other components to it

i just want the bones basically

with the mesh

not all the other components

https://prnt.sc/ra2k0t this is what im trying to go for atm but this is a different model, not what im after atm. the other one has something specific i wanna use on it unlike this one

otherwise i would use this one coz its ready to go basically

[open lark]

I have a darumaka model and am trying to make the round little bodyhead act as the head, but all it wants to do is act as the body. all the rigging is there and in roughly an appropriate spot but im just having difficulty with getting it to work. Can anyone help?

[sweet tundra]

my model is set as huminoid and has all the right bones, but it still tposes in vrchat

any help

[drowsy wharf]

go into play mode in unity and rotate an arm...if it doesn't move, weight painting most likely

if it does move, did you assign all the bones in the humanoid config?

and is the avatar descriptor on the parent of the armature and body mesh?

[viral seal]

Would a rig like this cause my calves to glitch out?

Can't see it on my end, but people have told me the bottom part of my legs twist around unnaturally.

[wild owl]

I think you need toes?

Even if they're not weight painted?

"Feet

[viral seal]

Might give that a shot then

[iron chasm]

how do i get the clothes to not go through the body?

[steady patio]

Weightpainting

[wild owl]

i have this issue, where if i use my model with full body

the thighs sorta twist inwards kinda

its not too noticeble but

its very odd it does this only when i use fullbody

and i have no idea how to fix

is that common with fullbody, ive seen other fullbody models work fine

[crisp tendon]

Can you show pictures of your armature in blender

it would help

[wild owl]

i made it like the other fullbody avatars

so im really confused

thank you in advance ruubic

💞

[crisp tendon]

ah

well you need to connect your bones lol

can't have bones floating around far away from their parents

@wild owl

But you should reimport that model with different import settings in the bottom left

for armature you should not import leaf bones in this case

and once you've connected the bones appropriately you should select them all and do "Clear roll"

then select everything in object mode, Ctrl + A > Apply all transforms

[wild owl]

sorry if stupid questions but

what are leaf bones, and clear roll ?

@-@

[crisp tendon]

leaf bones are bones created at the end of bones, but they don't do anything, clear roll is just an option for bones in edit mode

[wild owl]

ahh i seee

thank you ruubic youre a life saver, ive been wondering about this issue for so long but always forget to ask someone about it

i send pats as thanku

😄

[fading verge]

I've set up an avatar, and the voice visemes. But the visemes seem to be "low", since when I talk the mouth barely moves

Is there a way to fix this? Preferably without going back to Blender?

[crisp tendon]

Did you make the visemes that way in blender ?

[fading verge]

I don't remember, it's been a while

Is there a way to increase their intensity?

Or at least see how far their range goes. I could just use a blend jaw shape with the one that opens up to an acceptable level

[crisp tendon]

You can make it 100% then make a blend from mix, and increase the new one you created to replace the first one

wrong channel xD

@fading verge I can record a gif if you can't figure it out btw, not too complex

[mild stratus]

I was confused by what just took place

[fading verge]

That'd be nice. But could it all be done in unity?

Or does it have to be in Blender?

[crisp tendon]

a friend linked me a youtube channel of some dude making reviews for kids and some videos had half a billion views so my brain kind exploded lmao @mild stratus

Yeah it needs to be in blender

[fading verge]

Darn

[crisp tendon]

Unity is just where you import/upload

[fading verge]

Well if I've gotta do it in Blender I might as well just redo it. I know how, I just didn't want to have to go back to Blender and reupload it

Thanks though

[crisp tendon]

going back to blender 45 times is just one of the step of avatar creation

[fading verge]

Yep

[eager geyser]

does anyone know what my neck bends in a weird way when laying down?

I get this on a lot of avatars but I have no idea why it happens or how to fix italso having this other issue where even if I'm laying down facing to a side my torso will still face up

[dense stump]

@eager geyser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqUVFuSD5a4&t=1769s some of the stuff in this tutorial is outdated (we no longer need to make extra leg bones etc) but in there is a neckfix! it basically gives the head all of the rigging weight and it may help ur problem!

[trail cedar]

can anyone here help me with getting multiple hair colors and shaders onto a model with unity or blender, Ive got them all created but I have no idea how to select specific mesh and apply the hair files to those spots

[fading verge]

how do I rig? Can I also use genereic animations or do I need to get ones from the game/make them myself?

[drowsy wharf]

@crisp tendon Just to clear things up, "can't have bones floating away from their parents" is not accurate. "shouldn't have them" is a better choice of words.

You absolutely can have disconnected bones for armatures. (commonly only in the case of hip > legs, or Chest > shoulders but others are fine too)
Disconnected leg bones wouldn't really matter, but would be hard to see if they are angled properly for IK solving
Technically speaking you could have them all disconnected, it just doesn't make sense to do that normally.
Unity sees the head of the bone, the tail, the roll, and the rotations, but the length doesn't actually matter. The tail is ignored other than determining where to point the bone in a humanoid rig. (which is what often causes achy breaky fingers if not set up correctly)

[crisp tendon]

yeah my bad, the connected part is irrelevant, it was purely about having tail/head of parented away from each other was that resulting that behavior

[drowsy wharf]

that's what connected is, head of child attaches directly to tail of parent when "connected"

[crisp tendon]

But it doesn't need to be connected to be in the same spot

[drowsy wharf]

like at the knee in the image before, tail of upper leg was separated from lower leg's head.
Technically fine, hard to see IK angle though

fair point

if connection was required I'd imagine the shoulders causing problems on a lot of models, though I'm not really sure of the VRChat IK method to be fair

[crisp tendon]

The issue i had for s super long time was that my knees would bend by default and couldn't figure out why, turned out my Neck tail was 10cm away from my Chest head bone, and so the armature shrunk to make up that difference which made my knees bend

yeah if that was a requirement everything would go to hell

[drowsy wharf]

really? the neck being a slight distance off broke it? Definitely keeping that in mind
I'm assuming it's a full body issue?

so the IK is assuming connected even though it may not be the case and distance might be in a model, but not for hip>leg, or chest>shoulder
That's surprising

[crisp tendon]

it doesn't assume connected, just at the same transform location

afaik connected/inherit rotation or scale is irrelevant once it's exported

[sweet moth]

@wild owl saw the picture thought wait I know that avatar thought someone have ripped it

[wild owl]

nop it me~

hiya

[kindred roost]

god i hate rigging..... i found this ulala model on models resource and i want to make it into a avatar but mixamo wont let me

id t-pose it but i dont know how to

[fervent hornet]

You would probably need to rig it first to tpose it so it may be time to drop mixamo and rig it yourself

[wild owl]

put it into blender

go into edit mode

select the arm vertices

and just move them so its in t-pose

[kindred roost]

ok