avatar-rigging

[static parcel]

I'm not sure why it's having trouble with the humanoid rig. No bones seem to be missing from after a import and I filled all the slots aside from fingers (which I read were optional)

[trim timber]

you can't have a mesh named the same as a bone

[static parcel]

Ah ok

[slate perch]

may or may not have an issue with rigging this model..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOdDULz0UCw&list=LL&index=8

This was the tutorial I followed to import the model to unity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeO1w9Qe6MY&list=LL&index=1

This is how I got the model into Blender

I used the Spectre Model from Titanfall 2

[trim timber]

dont ask for DMS here. Scammers lurking

[slate perch]

Blyaat

[trim timber]

just describe your problem and have people help here

[wintry vigil]

tsk This is RIGGED

[strong lodge]

alright so i just got 6x slimes for fbt and i turned on lock head and hips because otherwise my camera is in my neck. now how tf do i orient these bones to not make my avi a hunchback or have it's chest poking out or laying down on a slant? ive been experimenting for a while and every time i fix one of these issue another one comes up. whats the secret combo for good fbt? can someone draw me a picture pls? that would actually be super helpful. here's what i got right now:

[river folio]

hmm you can is this for a vrchat avatar? if so i can think of something

[pale pumice]

Lock head is definitely the best - do you have your viewpoint in a weird place or something?
Otherwise there's an ideal armature pic pinned in here, it has the spine a bit straighter than you do

[woven trout]

Hello everybody, is there a specific height I should pose my rig at for sitting (on a chair) position? Should the pose have the feet on the ground or the buttocks?

[fading verge]

i need help rigging my avatar, im completely new to making avatars

[pale pumice]

explain where you're at in the process

[pale pumice]

it's not but also you'll get scammers DMing you around here, try the VRC Traders discord, link is in #1204490664637890580

[balmy nymph]

Ty

I’ll delete my original message

[cunning vessel]

Just wondering Im trying to find an app or something on my pc(windows 11/10) to create and model avatars that I can upload,I have no idea what app to use

[pale pumice]

You must use Unity with the VRChat SDK to setup the avatar and upload it.
start here: https://vcc.docs.vrchat.com/guides/getting-started

[grizzled delta]

Hi! Does anyone have any tips for rigging a poncho? I added one on this avatar I'm working on but it only now hit me that I have no idea how to make it work haha

I added a bunch of bones to it in Blender kinda like a skirt, if that helps

[hallow tiger]

I don’t have experience with Physbone Ponchos, but normal ponchos work best in an A-Pose, even an I- pose. A T-Pose is an enemy of ponchos because they will inevitably cause Bunching with the arms down. Whereas an I pose allows the Poncho to Flow outward

[swift knoll]

I love that I entirely forgot to add weight painting to an entire part of the body so it gets so fucked up

[limpid bridge]

does anyone know how you would rig 2d pupils?

[wary crow]

I usually just have the bones be placed really far back behind, and have them rotate a tiny amount to limit the angular movement or make it barely noticeable

[limpid bridge]

how far behind, exactly?

[balmy delta]

Its not a set distance

[rare moon]

There's a few ways to go about this:

1. setting the eye bones really far back. This can be somewhat measured by creating a sphere and scaling and placing it so that there is a section of surface where you would like the eye to rest. Then you can set the 3D cursor to the sphere and create the eye bone at that location.

2. 2D eyes. These eyes actually move in 2D by creating custom animations for each direction. Using a bone that has nothing attached to it, you can set it as the eye bone and use constraints and contacts to measure X and Y coordinates that the animations can be mapped to using a 2D blendtree

3. Scaling the eye bones down. You can make the eyes "pop" out of the head, then scale the eye bones down on one axis (global y axis, but double check which local axis this is for the bone), which will dampen the movements on that axis.

[celest path]

If you have 3 vive trackers, which bone does the tracker on the hip use? The hip bone? And does moving said hip-bone change how the avatar will move with FBT?

[wary wing]

losing my mind trying to figure out why this is happening

[limpid bridge]

oh my gosh they are jay walking xD

[pale pumice]

explain what exactly you did to cause it, and also maybe show the armature?

[wary wing]

well

all i really did was convert it into unity

in blender it looked completely fine

[pale pumice]

ah nice, it's got a bunch of twist bones

[wary wing]

Here let me get the armature

but when its like

forced t-pose

[pale pumice]

show us that dialog that shows which bones are assigned to which slots

[wary wing]

The dialog?

[pale pumice]

panel, page, whatever. in the inspector when you click "configure" in rigging setup, the diagram of the avatar with the bones in the appropriate slots

[pale pumice]

oh

well that's not going to help me if I can't read them :0

[wary wing]

Ah mb mb

[pale pumice]

I'm betting that Unity guessed the wrong bones, like it put the twist bones into the humanoid bone slots or something. You'd have to translate those, or maybe rename the lot of them in Blender.
Unless you can read them, in which case make sure they're assigned properly

[wary wing]

ah alr alr

[pale pumice]

oh yep, this is exactly the problem. I pointed google translate's camera at it, the arms are all wrong

[wary wing]

Ohh..

So in other words

[pale pumice]

drag the right bone into the right slot 🙂

[wary wing]

Get rid of the twist bones?

OH

OKAY

[pale pumice]

no no, you want twist bones, they're really great when setup right

[wary wing]

got it

[pale pumice]

I never do an avatar without them

[wary wing]

Let me see if i can fix it rq...

[pale pumice]

(thanks Feilen for the awesome Tuxedo plugin that makes this simple)

[robust crescent]

optimize that ones materials, it only have 4 textures wich can also be merged/baked into 1-4 materials depends on what you want to do , id usually go 2

[celest bridge]

How in the world can one make say, a chain that goes from one body part to another? I wanted to have a chain go from nose to ear, but this seems to be borderline impossible to do, at least simply. to just get the bone chains that come off of each to connect in the middle. ive tried position constraints, aim constraints, anchor objects with physbone drivers on separate objects, etc. I tried messing around with finalik as well, but im honestly not experienced in it's use to make any decent use of it.

part of the issue I figure, also, is that both chains have physbones
the closest i have gotten is using a mid point anchor, and having an aim constraint on both the first bone in each chain, and the final bone in each chain, which point to the anchor, and a position constraint on the anchor that points to the physbone components. then both chains move together well, but they dont stay joined at the midpoint

[pale pumice]

yep, that's about how it goes

[edgy harness]

Is there a way to add an chain constrain bones to my avatar?

[pale pumice]

hmm that doesn't seem to be supported in VRCHat

[swift knoll]

I really hate how whenever I use the auto-generated one for the humanoid bones
Instead of putting the hips bone for hips, it puts the bone name bone.079

[swift knoll]

I also love how physbones just decided to break entirely in game because it works perfectly fine and unity but as soon as I open it in game it's entirely broken

[balmy delta]

Only happens when you have more than 8 components on quest

[swift knoll]

Only have one, I reuploaded it and it fixed

[copper halo]

Vrchat moment

[pale pumice]

you should go to the VRC Traders discord to commission people, you'll just get scammers around here.
Link is in #1204490664637890580

[north gate]

importing fbx into blender then back into unity makes the arms bend like this at the elbow, but the forearm and wrist are in the correct place

[fierce sierra]

anyone ever got this message even tho their avatar was fully rigged and set to humanoid?

This avatar is not imported as a humanoid rig and will not play vrchat’s provided animation set

Is there any fix for that?

[pale pumice]

in that upper left image, below where you cropped (ideally don't crop so much), maybe there is an error message under a drop down

[fierce sierra]

I figured it out, there was an issue with animator not having avatar set inside of it

[pale pumice]

weird that that didn't get filled in when you did the rig setup though

[fierce sierra]

yeah, maybe it was because I accidentally mixed two different armatures together so the names of bones were completely random

[limpid bridge]

does anybody know whats causing the "michael jackson lean" on some avatars?

[arctic sundial]

The bone alignment viewed from the side, specifically hips to head

[limpid bridge]

could you show an example?

[robust crescent]

what i tend to aim for, can be 'close' and it behaves, waay off its going to do funny things

[limpid bridge]

can anybody help? is there anything i can do to stop the legs from being pulled backwards?

[pale pumice]

edit the rig to make the leg bones straight.

[limpid bridge]

i tried doing that with another model, and it made the problem worse

[pale pumice]

I'm not saying it's the exact fix for this specific issue that you haven't really shown at all, just saying that that rig ^ should probably have the leg straight, see the sample pinned in here.
From there, what do you mean "pulled backwards" exactly? that image doesn't look like a situation where anything is being pulled anywhere

[limpid bridge]

the image does not picture the problem im having. here, i'll try to sketch it out

[pale pumice]

ok then yeah, try to help us understand the problem

[limpid bridge]

i posted the sketch below

[pale pumice]

Okay but when does this happen? under what conditions?

[limpid bridge]

the sketch shows what position the legs end up being in the game

[limpid bridge]

always, whenever you stand still
you walk, then it "readjusts" by taking 2 steps, and then the legs become like that

[pale pumice]

in vr? FBT or not? Using the base locomotion or some other base animator?

[limpid bridge]

pc

[pale pumice]

Yeah it naturally does the readjusting thing using the base locomotion.

[limpid bridge]

yeah but the "readjusting" results in that leg pose

[pale pumice]

I'd love to see the actual bone positions, maybe take a pic in this world:
https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2/info

but I suspect it's exaggerated because your leg isn't straight. I'd also check that the bone roll for those leg bones is 0.

[limpid bridge]

alright, i'll give it a try

[limpid bridge]

they are indeed 0. i made sure of that.

[limpid bridge]

for some reason whenever i go into my menu or use the camera, the legs go back to normal
but they start to bend again when i hold right click on the camera to move (which is demonstrated in this video)

[pale pumice]

this looks pretty reasonable to me, it's trying to position the feet under the body in a natural way

[limpid bridge]

doesn't look natural at all
besides, pretty sure legs are supposed to have a slight bend in order to work

[pale pumice]

I'm probably too used to looking at furries.

[limpid bridge]

most probably, yes

the best way to explain it; vrchat is trying to do this to the avatar:

so not very natural, no

[celest path]

Now, this is weird. Have you checked if other players see you the same way?

[limpid bridge]

not yet, but pretty sure they do

i'll see if changing the animation in a custom ik controller will do the trick

i know it has something to do with the ik

[restive wind]

Pleaseee I need help with weight painting for Mac 🙏🏽

The vids I found where all for windows and older blenders

[glacial dawn]

So I'm rigging this looping strap for this model atm. I'm thinking of using two sets of bones (one front, one back), either as chains or disconnected but parented

I know it's not the best solution, since there'll be stretching where each chain ends. I'm just wondering if anyone has a better idea for rigging a looping piece like this (that works with physbones)

[wicked ravine]

I'd imagine one string of bones in the middle could work for both the front and back parts of the strap. But I'm not knowledgeable about this stuff

[wicked ravine]

I'm looking at elbow and knee joints. Apart from using good topology, how do avatar creators preserve the volume in the knee for when it bends a lot? Looks to me like an extra "helper bone" at the knee with a rotation constraint would be best since VRC added their own efficient constraints?

Just curious if there are other options I should look at.

[pale pumice]

Yep, I'd also consider a single bone chain in the middle. Otherwise you'll have a hard time getting the ends to work together.

[pale pumice]

This is exactly what I do on some joints, along with twist bones on others

[glacial dawn]

Thanks for the feedback guys

[wicked ravine]

Alright, thank you. I think I'll look into twist bones as well :>

[pale pumice]

For making twist bones, Feilen wrote this great blender plugin:
https://github.com/feilen/tuxedo-blender-plugin

[wicked ravine]

Oh sweet

[short bluff]

Hello, I'm trying to understand how vrchat's FBT works to fix a model I have, so I found Kung's video tutorial on FBT but i have more questions.
Is there tracking compensation on the controllers or something like it?
In the game, I can extend my arms to the sides and it matches the arm length, but if I move the hand down the controller extends much lower down.
It gets larger as I reach down the floor, like the controller moves relatively much faster than the arm?

this is with the model already fixed according to the video

[brazen island]

afaik. vrc has two modes, armspan and height. first one is kinda deprecated and makes your tposing arms to be a real world sized, your long anime legs look like youre on crutches, second one make your height a real one and your arms (since you do have anime legs scaled now for your height) look like a tyranosaurus paws and reach only that far. the more avi is out of sync from irl proportions, the more visible it is.

[short bluff]

i didn't know how height works, i assume the old video is about armspan, it works but fails on this, the arms appear to be too short

however make the arms longer, and extra the length to reach the floot, in T pose, makes the arms bend. I can't get out of that editing loop

there's no documentation anywhere on how Height mode works/wants to fit you to the model is there? :(

maybe I'll take a picture T posing, then match it as close as possible in blender...?

maybe it's a problem with the torso, I did notice that when I bend down I couldn't touch my chest anymore, maybe that's that.

yeah that was it,

the chest wasn't moving down along with the hips, because it was set to 'Lock Hip'
changed it to 'Lock Head', and now I can reach the floor, and the torso and everything is correct.

[uneven berry]

could anyone help me out on this one? I'd like to rig this model but I have literally no idea how to make a working rig as I have no experience with Blender...

[pale pumice]

you could try using Mixamo... or find a tutorial. Pinned in here is an image of what an ideal humanoid rig looks like

[wind sigil]

blender does not change over windows or macos

[pale pumice]

they were talking about key binding differences. I couldn't think of any that'd be relevant, but I don't do Macs, so maybe.

[old wolf]

I'm unsure how to fix this, or what steps I should take to find out how, I'm inexperienced with rigging, and the friend that rigged this for me is too busy to help ;-;

I looked for tutorials but when I try to copy them, I get the same result as the pictures each time

[pale pumice]

specifically what about this very dark and low-contrast image should we be looking at?

[old wolf]

the hands?

[pale pumice]

yes, I can at least see they are hands

[old wolf]

the thumb looks dislocated, and the blender rig seems fine

I've tried to fix the hands myself, but I've gotten nowhere

[pale pumice]

ah ok, I can't really tell much from the image

got a pic of the bone in blender with the mesh in x-ray?

[old wolf]

no, one moment

[pale pumice]

got a bunch of extra bones there, interesting.

[old wolf]

it wasnt rigged by me, and I dont do rigging, so I'm not sure what should be where

I'm learning to rig and theres alot of terms I dont know

[pale pumice]

the thumb looks positioned ok, I'd check the bone roll, and make sure it moves right when you pose in blender.
The small two fingers look like the bones aren't in the right place. And there are unnecessary hand bones.

[old wolf]

from the looks of it, the starting bone seems too long, or misplaced

[pale pumice]

ahh that's a good angle - yep, the head of that is where it pivots from, it looks too far into the hand

[old wolf]

im trying to figure it out, im unsure what bone to move

the first bone in the thumb (closest to camera) seems to produce the same result no matter where I move it

[patent ether]

How can I rig the neck to the head?

[pale pumice]

do you have any bones already?

[patent ether]

No

[pale pumice]

at all?

[patent ether]

nope

[pale pumice]

oh well then start by making a whole armature. There's an image pinned as to what one should look like to be humanoid in vrchat

[patent ether]

Yeah but i still need to know how I'm mean't to rig the neck

[pale pumice]

the head bone is connected to the neck bone?

[patent ether]

yeah how thats suppoed to work?

[pale pumice]

I'm not really sure what you're asking I guess

[patent ether]

its 2 bones on 3 joints

[pale pumice]

so you have bones then?

[patent ether]

N. O.

[pale pumice]

okay....

are you wanting to make those pipes into actual bones or something?

[patent ether]

Vr chat's avatar necks 2 bones for 2 joints. My model had 3 joints with the neck allways pointing to the side instead of up with 2 joints like it's shows. So Idk how I'm supposed to rig it

[pale pumice]

yeah to be humanoid in vrchat you get one neck and one head bone, both of which face generally vertical. What you attach to those is entirely up to you. In this case probably it'd work just fine if you just have the head bone come right up from that central joint instead of going forward

[patent ether]

So like this? Because so I would purther the head rotation up and down from the joint if thats even possible

[pale pumice]

not really sure where the actual bones are there?

[patent ether]

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-out-black-guy-tweaking-meme-gif-6022943353035016664

I've said like 3 times now. THE MODEL HAS NO THE BONES

[pale pumice]

and yet you've said there are no bones, so I really don't know what you're talking about.
But I meant in that last image - what there is an actual armature bone?

[patent ether]

No bones I mean

[pale pumice]

are you indicating where one would be? If so, what in the diagram is doing that?

[patent ether]

The 2 black lines?

[pale pumice]

I see, thank you.

So yes, that's what I was thinking.

if that won't move how you want, do it anyway, then put more bones where you want the pivot to be and then use rotation constraints to copy the rotation from the one VRchat will move

[patent ether]

So I make it so when this bone rotates another also rotates?

[pale pumice]

yeah - you make the bones VRChat will drive, then the bones that actually move your mesh, and copy rotation from one to the other.

it's what you have to do when you get far from humanoid

[patent ether]

Ok bet tysm

[pale pumice]

it might work ok without that - you'd have to try it to see

[stiff matrix]

I'm looking for a rigger with a lot of experience for a model, i have it fully rigged and i only need to skin it, it is has some complicated parts, i did something myself that works but i want to find some pro with experience to do it better and contact them in the future for more stuff (obviusly i'm going to pay), if someone is up for the challenge md me, the model is this one

Wireframe here

[full quail]

your Avatar is so goood:)

[stiff matrix]

Thank you very much <3

[pale pumice]

commission people at the VRC Traders discord, link is in #1204490664637890580 . You'll get scammers DMing you around here, so beware.

[robust crescent]

ah yes art station

[stiff matrix]

Upsy, didnt know

[full quail]

yeah there are a lot of spammers in my dms as well😅

[stiff matrix]

Yes, its my model

I'm working on it really hard, but it's a challenge so big for someone without almost any experience

i only rigged like 3 models

and this one, on the shoulders has 4 layers

[full quail]

yeah this one looks like a complex one.

[full quail]

how many layers overall?

[stiff matrix]

I mean layers of cloth

i dont know about rig layers if that is a thing, its a 3D max proyect

[pale pumice]

it's not really a thing

[full quail]

I don't know either but I think there is a thing which has layers in a model other then just clothes, I just don't remember it

[pale pumice]

hmm, not sure what it could be

[frigid root]

Here's one of the clothing pieces I'm struggling with. To reiterate: I've been working with a friend on my model and I've been following the steps for connecting the pieces and weight painting. Some clothing fbx didn't have vertex groups for some reason so I added them myself, applied transforms and transferred weights but nothing is working. Specifically, they aren't moving in pose mode. Object data is connected to my body armature too.

[pale pumice]

does this mesh object have an armature modifier pointing to the correct (hopefully only) armature?

oh if I open the image I see that, sorry

So go into weight paint and look there - the images you've shared don't show any weight of course.

[pale pumice]

you'd need to select the bone in question, and see if the mesh has any weight

oh you did - there's no weight then

so it won't move

[frigid root]

Even with it having Vertex Groups? I transferred the weight over when I added it to my main armature so it should've been rigged. At least, that's what it said when I got it.

[pale pumice]

weight transfer is close at best. I see no weight there at all, I'd expect some part of that mesh to be not blue

[frigid root]

So basically I just need to draw my own weight on it since the original disappeared?

[pale pumice]

I'd try using Robust Weight Transfer on it (with the body as source, assuming it's weight painted well), and then touch it up when it's not exactly right ('cause it won't be)

[frigid root]

I'm not quite sure where that is. I just know this section where the 'transfer weights' is. Is it part of that when selecting it? Or is it somewhere else?

[pale pumice]

it's not anywhere if you didn't install it, it's an add-on

huh I'm not sure what that "transfer weights" even does

[frigid root]

There are many addons that I need but don't even know where to start lmao

[pale pumice]

Eh, there are few you need. This one is pretty decent though, it does a great job of getting weight painting close to right

again, assuming you have a decent source, such as an already weighted body

[frigid root]

Yup, my body is fully rigged and ready to upload, it's just clothes that I need and other minor stuff.

[frigid root]

Better! At least it moves with my legs now!

[pale pumice]

excellent!

[frigid root]

Thank you btw! Though I have one last question regarding an object like this: Are chains meant to do this? I understand that once I give the bones proper function in Unity they'll probably be fine but aren't they supposed to move with my arm even in Blender? Not fluid movement, but I'm pretty sure parts shouldn't be stuck in one place like this?

[pale pumice]

those look like the bottoms aren't weight painted

[frigid root]

Gotcha. Welp, these are now small things that I can easily fix. Thanks again!

[pale pumice]

you're welcome!

[frigid root]

Alright, I have to return because it's actually being stubborn and still not fixing itself. I'm happy that I'm learning how to fully weight paint but I don't know why the pulling has gotten even worse. Here's what it looked like before I filled in the rest of the chains.

Then after.

[trail gulch]

It may already be weighted to other bones, alot of the time blender will implicitly give vertices without any weighting to the lowest bone like the pelvis/hips

[frigid root]

In that case, would I remove them from the Vertex Group section and keep the important parts like the arms, chest and spine?

[trail gulch]

If they are their own mesh, you could! Though I find it safer to just manually remove all weighting from that group.

[dawn torrent]

anyone have any tips on how to rig the belts on this coat thing?

[pale pumice]

sus

immediately friends me - hello scammer.

[robust crescent]

'professional vrchat avatar creator' past history screams scammer - show you know anything

[pale pumice]

gone already too.

[dawn torrent]

Was it ismail studio?

[pale pumice]

yep

[dawn torrent]

Got it

They friended me too, blocking em lmao

[pale pumice]

same

[frigid root]

So, I managed to fix all my problems with some help, but I've found yet another one. If I accidentally have my edits connected to a shapekey (it was not on basis for some reason), can I transfer those edits to basis or do I have to redo the edits I made in basis?

[brazen island]

@frigid root select basis, goto edit mode, select verticies, find somewhere in edit menus "blend from shape"

[frigid root]

Thank you!

[little badger]

Why is the mesh dipping weirdly like that where the hips meet the thigh? How do I fix it?

[pale pumice]

what did you do to cause this, looks like you are weight painting, did you pose a bone?

[full quail]

yeah looks like

[little badger]

I’m weight painting the thigh and when I pose it into a sitting position it warps strangely, I try adjusting the weight paint but it keeps doing that

[pale pumice]

unfortunately the best answer is "better weight painting"

[uncut inlet]

I've got no idea how to re-rig this skylanders model, can someone help me?

[pale pumice]

the bone heads look like they're in good places, probably just rotate the tails around to snap to the heads of the children in most cases. See the pin in here for a clue as to what it should look like.

[uncut inlet]

My friend said that the rig was missing the neck, chest, spine, hips, and both shoulder bones. Do you know how to add bones to a rig?

[pale pumice]

yep, it does look like that. If you're editing the armature in blender you can use 'e' to "extrude" a new bone from the selected bone's tail. Mirror mode works too so you can do both shoulders from the chest bone, then re-parent the upper arms to those.

[limpid bridge]

does anybody know how to fix the "your legs are not 180 degrees" warning?

[pale pumice]

re-orient the bones in Blender or similar

they might simply be upside-down, often you'll see that on avatars from games or something

[limpid bridge]

no worries, i (sort of) fixed it

[pale pumice]

oh good

[grand bronze]

is this good for a coat rig?
or do i need bones on the sides too?

i think i need a break

imma continue this tomorrow

[turbid scroll]

Can someone help me figure out why lil sync isn't functioning properly? Can explain (or just see avatar channel)

[light plaza]

can anyone tell me if there are any issues with this rig or the chest bone settings? enforcing t-pose when it's been added in unity breaks the model entirely and I don't know why

[pale pumice]

your spine bones look to be pointing down instead of up, and I'm not sure I can see what the shoulders look like. It'd be good to know what "breaks the model entirely" means.

[light plaza]

here's the enforced t-pose when I haven't applied the chest bone to the avatar config, as well as what happens after i apply it

ill get a closer look at the shoulders now

[pale pumice]

if you have this in blender it's way better to look at there, Unity has a weird idea of how to represent bones

[light plaza]

the original image is from blender, the problem seems to be only on unity's end as the model functions perfectly fine in blender. is there a way in blender i can force tpose for a similar effect and check?

[pale pumice]

you can pose things however you want in Blender, and set that pose as the rest pose

I'm confused as to what happened in Unity there but also your bones are still upside-down

[light plaza]

maybe it's an issue with how Unity's axis differs from blender? is there an easy way I can fix this and test or should I just get my modeller to re-rig it :O

[pale pumice]

I have no idea what to suggest because I can't really tell what it looks like in Blender, but you can simply reorient those bones

[light plaza]

if you're free and are able to use blender atm id be happy to send you my current .blend file if you'd like to take a look and get a better idea of whats going on ^^

[pale pumice]

sorry, I don't do that for free

[light plaza]

thats all good!

ended up flipping the bones, fixing the hierarchy and testing which resulted in this

which is an improvement!

but still not very good

[pale pumice]

are those angled bones that look like low shoulders actually shoulders? what bone is their parent?

[light plaza]

if you mean this, it's the spine bone, and it's only parent is the hips bone beneath it. it's connected to the physbones in place for the jacket, idk if thats a good thing or not as this was all done by my modeller

[pale pumice]

yeah what are those side bones - not the shoulders? if not, where are the shoulders?

[light plaza]

i mustve taken this screenshot before I put the shoulders in, here's an updated look with them attached to the arm but with the same issue

this change also gave me the following error which i've never seen before, a bit confusing because i didnt even touch the leg bones

[pale pumice]

ok well again I really don't know for sure what this looks like because you keep showing Unity pics rather than Blender pics.
The reposition errors are likely because something got changed, if you redo the rig setup those should get handled.

[fading verge]

can someone call and help me out on unity?

[astral girder]

Hi, when I move only the armature, the offset is the same.
Can't I link them so I can put another project inside? o:
(I tried moving the armature first, then the mesh, and I also tried applying all the transformations to the modifier, but it doesn't change anything.)

[pale pumice]

which mode are you in here, object?

[astral girder]

yea

[pale pumice]

can you show the hierarchy?

In here.

and you only had the armature selected there? I've never seen this

[astral girder]

Same at the video the other armatures are hidden

[pale pumice]

that's fine, hide/show those wouldn't cause this

[astral girder]

That's it, I'm just trying to link my meshes to the armature so they move properly with the armature
I have the same problem on other avatars

[pale pumice]

armature modifier + weight paint ought to do it

[astral girder]

Could you please tell me how to do this ?

[pale pumice]

I'd suggest video tutorials, it's not really something easy to explain in text

[astral girder]

Alr, ty ^^

[upper yoke]

Does having an upperchest bone still cause issues with FBT with SDK3?

I'm noticing all but a few of my avatars have spine issues I can't replicate on any other platform, but the ones that do work fine don't have upperchest bones.

[upper yoke]

I guess, less of a X-Y problem question, but is it possible to bake in default FBT offsets on an avatar? I can't really get anything that looks and feels as nice by messing with the T-pose animation/humaniod T-pose compared to just offsetting the trackers in VR with FBT on.

[warm bramble]

yes having a upper chest bone can cause issue with FBT..

VRChat doesn’t save FBT calibration, but you can bake those offsets by editing your avatar’s rest pose in Blender, then reexporting and reuploading.That way, it always feels right without recalibrating in VR.

[upper yoke]

It seems like it usually forces the neck to align with the upperchest bone, making them aligned in Blender fixes that and didn't put the bones in a weird place for this model at least

[upper yoke]

I need to see if the Mechanim rest pose and the IK animation can be different now... I was able to get close doing this with the rest/Mechanim pose, but then the avatar looks less nice in half-body (and presumably CVR & and Overte where original spine worked fine)

[upper yoke]

This didn't work ;-;

[royal phoenix]

anyone know an easy trick to find unweighted vertices, i apparently have 4 that dont have weight painting, but i cant find them

[warm bramble]

Go to Edit Mode, select a vertex group, then do: Select > Select All by Trait > Unweighted Vertices. That’ll highlight the ones with no weights.

[royal phoenix]

theres no unweighted vertices button there for me

[warm bramble]

The “Unweighted Vertices” option only shows up if you have a vertex group selected. Go to Edit Mode, pick a vertex group from the list, then try

[grand bronze]

ok, imma need some help for this one

i wanna make an avatar that has "segmented" fingers
aka, it's gonna have fingers that arent gonna deform in shape

and i need help knowing how to rig and or mess around to make it work

image bellow to show what i mean/think

other ideas for finger shapes are also welcomed

wait actualy
nvm

i figured it out

im stupid

[grand bronze]

and once again, gentlemen, i am on to something....

[prime adder]

how do i get the weight painting even on both sides?

[pale pumice]

practice

but you can enable mirroring

[grim sleet]

If you still need help use cats blender it will auto fix stuff like this

[frigid sluice]

need to turn the skeleton into a riggin for VRchat?

[pale pumice]

yes

[frigid sluice]

yah... okay so i made this skeleton for defult can i use that??

this is video, the bones are diffrent

[pale pumice]

Really hard to tell what's going on there, and much of that looks like an IK rig. I'm not sure what program this is, but that "octahedral" button may help you visualize the armature better to compare to the pinned image

wait, is this just an ancient blender?

I think a lot of what's in there you'd want to just strip out, only keeping the bones which deform the mesh, those that have weight paint

[frigid sluice]

like this?

[pale pumice]

Looks like you don't have shoulders, you'll need those. Otherwise except for the extra IK bones and such, it looks reasonable.

[frigid sluice]

i added sholders

[frigid sluice]

like this?

you sure its rigable now??

[pale pumice]

Looks good, yep. I can't tell how many spine bones you have there but VRChat wants 3: hips -> spine -> chest, and the shoulders come off the tail of the chest bone. You don't need the upper chest bone.

[frigid sluice]

i dont?

[pale pumice]

no, upper chest is optional.

[frigid sluice]

okay

how dose it look right now?

[lofty lance]

Looks good so far

[frigid sluice]

want me to give a blend file?

[pale pumice]

yeah this looks decent

[frigid sluice]

i dont know if adding this here is a good idea.

[frigid sluice]

is it okay?

[pale pumice]

"decent" is "okay"

but it doesn't matter what it looks like or what I think, what matters is whether it works in VRChat.

[frigid sluice]

needs texture

[pale pumice]

don't export the camera and light from blender (or whatever you were using)

[frigid sluice]

need texture

[glass ore]

does VRC or unity support any sort of corrective shape key options for armatures or is the workflow / pipeline to use corrective bones?

Im making a character with an oversized shirt and im not liking how the armature bends the shirt when the legs are at a sitting position. I'd like to just make some blendshapes that correct each side so that the shirt fakes looking naturally drawn over the pants, but looking online at subreddits and old tutorials, it seems the standard is corrective bones with ad adversion to shape keys due to performance.

[pale pumice]

Yeah, in some cases you can kinda fake it with bones that move via rotation constraints, or contact senders/receivers that trigger shape keys

shape keys are way less expensive than they were before VRChat switched to Unity 2022 though, so I wouldn't really worry about performance issues with them anymore.

[frigid sluice]

how do i fix the texture blurness?

[pale pumice]

please don't ping me for new questions I'm not already helping with. And this is not a rigging question.

[frigid sluice]

oh... sorry

[glass ore]

So you could have say.. a contact on the upper leg / foot that operates on a float where the closer the contact is to reach its goal the more the shape key hits 1 on its float?

[pale pumice]

yep, exactly like that.

[glass ore]

Huh. Seems easy enough. Will experiment with that soon then. Thank you!

[robust kite]

does anybody know what world cause a rigs hand and finger bones to change proportions when exporting from blender into an fbx in unity? the rest of the rig is correct and functions just fine, only the hand and fingers get borked

i suspect it's that there are 5 vertices on the wrist but can't figure out how to correct it

[robust crescent]

too many fingerbones here merge those to wrist

unity goes 'i have no idea about the 4th bone' and get confused

[robust kite]

ty

[frigid sluice]

so is there a way to create rigging 2D face?

in unity i mean.

i mean there are some players that have 2D face rigging abilitys

[pale pumice]

you can create rigging (i.e. armature and bones) in Blender, not Unity

[frigid sluice]

but what about the face rig?

[pale pumice]

what's a face rig in this case?

it's not clear what you're trying to do or why you're asking about face rigs.

[frigid sluice]

im sure anyone know about how face rigs work

[pale pumice]

Well sure, I know some about that but again, what is your goal?

it's not clear what you want to use a face rig for

[balmy delta]

you dont use face rigs like that for avatars

[pale pumice]

you can to create visemes but you wouldn't actually use one in Unity or VRChat

[balmy delta]

you use a sprite sheet on a material

not whatever that is

[frigid sluice]

the goal is to make the complate lo-poli character luci

[pale pumice]

that's a large, broad goal, not the "what do you intend to do with this face rig" goal

[balmy delta]

you need to make it a sprite sheet texture for the material not whatever the individual objects you have right now

[pale pumice]

^^

[balmy delta]

you have an animation rig for blender where you would swap out shit for whatever frame you are currently making]

thats not meant for avatars

[glass ore]

I feel like this is really obvious and in my face but just incase its not: what does this mean? I'm trying to test my avatar in its early stages but the humanoid mapping is not registering my neck bone for some reason

[balmy delta]

as it states in the last sentence
you cant have something named the same as the bone

[glass ore]

Oooooh it means the object

I understand now

[copper rover]

When rotating my root bone all my aim constraints seems to rotate too. What's the reason behind it? The expected behaviour is that the aim constraint should only aim at the target bones.

I assume it's to do with world or scene? tried togglign through the different types but a simple aim at bone X seems to generally break and doesn't seem to work outside of scene up.

[copper rover]

Managed to resolve the issue.

[woven oracle]

hi hello im trying out rigging for the first time after finishing the model but for some reason whenever i move one of the bones around some of the parts aren't connected n ive put put the mesh all together im just rlly confused why its doing this n idk how to fix it. srry if this is in the wrong chat btw wasent sure if i shouldve placed it in model channel.

[pale pumice]

if an part doesn't move when you rotate a bone, that means either it doesn't have an armature modifier, or it doesn't have any weight paint.

[arctic sundial]

and when it moves halfway, theres a possibility that you have a second, perhaps broken armature modifier left also affecting the mesh

[pale pumice]

or that it's weight painted poorly

[astral warren]

When world scale is set to "Based on Height", what actually determines the height? Is it the view position height?

[pale pumice]

yeah most height in game is from that position

[lilac warren]

how would i fix this for vrchat? its originally for ik

[pale pumice]

what needs fixing though? The IK bones will be irrelevant, so you could delete them or just not export them.

[lilac warren]

when i do, my mesh deforms wrong

im also not sure which bones are needed or not, i bought this model DX

what i thought would help is someone experienced with blender removing all excess bones and make it vrchat compatible

[pale pumice]

you can commission people at the VRC Traders discord, link is in #1204490664637890580

[pale pumice]

^ sus, probably scammer. Be careful.

[lilac warren]

yeah...

its a shame.

[buoyant dove]

I can give it a shot

I’m no expert but I can try for you

[buoyant dove]

@lilac warren did you want me to?

[lilac warren]

Are you able to give it a shot lol?

[buoyant dove]

I can try my darndest

Dm me

[high nacelle]

hello..! this is my first attempt at an avatar, but I realize that im not sure how to rig it to where the legs move right.. vrchat's website doesn't recommend using the default humanoid rig. does anyone have any experience with rigging non-humanoid characters that still move with your controllers and head? the mouth and eyes are going to be pngs so theres no worry about that part ^^"
i can continue to try and set things up with guidance, i just am really struggling here ;0;

[pale pumice]

there's an image pinned in here of the ideal humanoid rig

you can adapt it

But if you don't it'll be harder, you'll have to build a full base locomotion layer

[high nacelle]

oh, thank you!
what do you think the best way to go about that is? im mostly concerned about how the feet will move in relation to the legs

[pale pumice]

I don't know what sort of locomotion you're going for yet, so it's hard to suggest a way to do it

[high nacelle]

i'll probably just try and go simple rather than trying to animate a whole walk cycle- at first i wanted them to kinda waddle but i quickly realized that was out of my skill range

[pale pumice]

Yeah, to do that you'd need to build a base locomotion controller

dude, why?

go into general or something, this is a technical discussion channel

problem solved.

[native yoke]

Anybody know how to weight paint necklaces

When I do it too any body it just stretches out

When the neck moves

[robust crescent]

its just weightpaint it to chest , no neck at all , my neck dont move 180°

if you want it to move however id use a bone parented to chest and physbone angle limits so it flops around

[pale pumice]

The only time I've done any neck painting for a necklace is if the neck-to-body join moves a bit and it actually affects the chain

[high nacelle]

my weightpaints arent mirroring to the bone for the other side, even though i enabled X mirror and auto normalize. I thought i named all of the bones right :c
also mirror vertex groups doesnt show up as an option, i'm using blender 2.9

[pale pumice]

ooh 2.9 is a weird choice.

but it does depend on bone / vertex group names - do they obviously have left/right names?

[high nacelle]

i made sure to have everything have the .L or .R suffix

[pale pumice]

I'm literally working on a thing now that mirroring wasn't working how I wanted, but I have the luxury of deleting half of it and mirroring.

It seems like sometimes it doesn't actually mirror when you want, but I haven't figured out exactly why yet.

[high nacelle]

it's odd, it was working on the ears but not the arms
real frusturating lol
and the way i kinda have it set up is difficult because the mesh isnt all one piece like how i see on the youtube tutorials

[pale pumice]

you can join stuff if you want, and even separate later. That shouldn't be a big issue.

[high nacelle]

im thinking about asking around to see if anyone is willing to weight paint it for like 20 bucks but im not sure if theres really a channel to do that in here or if it counts as advertising

[pale pumice]

VRC Traders discord

[bleak plover]

This character is somewhat similar in proportions specifically in regards to feet

I don’t even think you’d need to rig the lower leg bones just rig the whole leg to the upper leg and the foot to the foot bones

The chest area should be straightforward and so should the head

Oh yeah and the hips bone needs to be above the upper leg and the chest on level with the shoulders

[high nacelle]

would i just not put weight on the rest of the leg bones? would the foot move weird with the leg?

[bleak plover]

it would still be attached to the leg

let me make an example

actually maybe i was wrong

[tall lichen]

hey guys, im making a collar, its currently fully rigged, but i wanted for it to be rigged just as a normal collar, yet than when i modify the bone size in unity, it changes only the bones linked to the thread of the collar, and not the collar itself, that way it would be easy to adapt it to many characters, any idea how to do so?

any other alternative to adapt it quickly to many avatars works too!

[pale pumice]

I'd do that resizing in Blender.

but probably you'd have to adjust the actual bone that the pendant thing is connected to

[tall lichen]

the thing is for people to buy the collar, do 2-3 small resizes and have it fit their avatars, if each person has to go to blender, its quite a bummer

[pale pumice]

oh I see, you want customers to resize it in Unity.

[tall lichen]

yeah, i made it so it fits most bodies, but 2-3 tweaks are always needed

[tulip maple]

Hi! I had a question about meshes and bones on an avatar.

I have a humanoid avatar that does not bend the meshes, but instead uses separate objects for legs, arms, head, etc...

I'm wondering if I should join all these objects into one, or keep them separate. Would joining them all increase the preformance? Or is it best to keep them separate?

I guess I saw some optimization tips that said having a lot of objects can be demanding, but then I heard meshes that bend can also decrease performance.

[robust crescent]

merge everything alot better then many objects, render once instead one for each object and you avoid having them being cullded out of exsistance when you arent looking straight at them

[tulip maple]

Got it, thank you! :)

[zealous crag]

Hii! I followed the avatar rig reference in the pinned, but I have.. no idea what to do next. I've watched about three tutorials, and I'm still having problems. I figured I'd make the rig the VRC way and then just ask for help here. So.. What do I do now? How do I mirror the bones on the arm and leg, and do I put bones for physbones in this armature if I wanted physbones? (Ex: If I wanted the earrings to move in VRC with a physbone, would I put that in this armature?)

None of my bones have been parented with a key, I have not applied any transformations or modifyers, and I haven't done armature deform with weights (so there is no pose mode). I'd rather just ask for help here since the tutorials are getting me nowhere.

Some of the bones, like on the hands, look like they have a dotted line on them, but everywhere else on the armature doesn't have those. I don't know why some duplicates make the line and some don't, but I just really want to wrap this up at this point. I'll cross the weight painting bridge when I get to it.

[pale pumice]

if you turn on X mirroring when editing the armature (upper right), you can create/extrude/etc. bones already mirrored. Now you'd have to just duplicate them, move them to the opposite side, and name them with a left/right extension. Such as lower_arm.L

if you want physbones, put a bone where you need it, weight paint the mesh to that. For things like hair, it's best for them to have a common parent so the entire tree of bones can use a single physbone component.

not sure what you mean "parented with a key"?

[zealous crag]

Idk the tutorial said something about using Ctrl P to parent them and I haven't done that yet because they won't actually specify which ones to parent and which ones to not.

Where to I turn on X mirroring?

[pale pumice]

upper right of the armature edit view, you'll see X Y Z there, turn on X

re: parenting, you do want bones to be parented properly, however you want to do set that, be it ctrl+p or the "parent" field in the bone properties box

legs/arms should be obvious. spine goes: hip -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (if present) -> neck -> head

and shoulders come off the chest or upper chest

the hip bone is the root bone.

("pelvis" is likely a better name, but whatever)

[zealous crag]

After I turn on X mirroring on the arm, what exactly do I do again? Sorry, it's hard to follow. It's my first time every making anything like this.

[pale pumice]

that just makes it so when you have two bones that should be mirrored and are named properly that they'll be mirrored when you do a move/rotate/etc.
If you don't have those bones you have to create them.

[zealous crag]

I applied them to the arm, I'm just not sure what to do with it next. Do I have to create another arm for it to work-?

I found out you can do it with right click +symmetrize as well, they're mirrored now

I'm gonna reread what you said about the parenting thing, apply it, and come back

Am I doing this right for the spine? I parented the hip to the spine

[pale pumice]

not a whole lot you can tell from the image but it looks ok?

[zealous crag]

I was just asking because if you ctrl+p in different combinations, it latches onto the knee and I didn't know which was correct

[pale pumice]

you select stuff you want to parent then last the target. Most blender operations are like that, the target is last.

[zealous crag]

Okay, and the hips are the target because they're the "root", right?

[pale pumice]

no the target is the target of whatever operation you are doing.

select source bones, then the target bone, do the operation.

[zealous crag]

What's the difference between a source bone and a target bone?

[pale pumice]

...

"put these things there"

"these things" are the source and "there" is the target

[zealous crag]

Sorry, I have processing issues. Thank you for making it a bit simpler

[pale pumice]

ok

I'm trying to use very generic terms because many other blender operations use this same method

[zealous crag]

Gotcha

So "these things" would be the hips, and "there" would be the spine

[pale pumice]

and I very purposely do not teach specifics - I don't have your file, so the best I can do is provide vague guidance that might work for you, adjust as you need.

no

[zealous crag]

Oh.

[pale pumice]

hips is the parent of spine

select spine (source) then hips (target), perform parenting

[zealous crag]

Ohhhhhhh now I get it

[pale pumice]

or say: select sholder.L and shoulder.R, then chest, parent! and you get the shoulders as children of the chest.

(also fix my typing/spelling)

[zealous crag]

This makes way more sense ty 😭

Okay.. when I select the source(spine) and then the hips(target) and parent, it latches to the knee. I think I'm doing something wrong.

Unless that's right

[pale pumice]

you can also look in the properties box for the bone and just select which bone its parent should be

I never use the ctrl-p here, not sure why.

[zealous crag]

Properties box? There are a lot of buttons labeled properties, and I'm not sure which one I use.

[pale pumice]

bottom right box in blender's default view, select the individual bone icon

[zealous crag]

Am I looking for custom properties?

[pale pumice]

"relations"

[zealous crag]

Gotcha.

Ohh, I see it.

[pale pumice]

as the parent-child thing is a relation

[zealous crag]

So hips are the parent, and spine is the child

Okay, it's parented. How do I parent the spine to the left leg too? It won't let me from here it looks like.

[pale pumice]

pro tip: name your bones something nicer than "bone.005"

not sure what you are trying here? the spine is a child of the hip bone, that is all.

upper leg bones are children of the hip bone.

then the lower leg bone is connected to the... upper leg bone

you know the song 🙂

[zealous crag]

They're parented, I'm just wondering if the other one is supposed to be parented too. Only one hip has the line

The left hip is parented, the right hip doesn't look like it is

[pale pumice]

look in the properties box to be sure.

[zealous crag]

It says that the left hip is the spine's parent

[pale pumice]

that seems wrong 🙂

just set it in the box, easier than selecting stuff.

[zealous crag]

I did set it in the box.

Rigging is so dumb 💔

[pale pumice]

I can't tell which bone that is from there.

(again, names help you)

[low estuary]

Hey guys what's a good avatar me and my crush could where

[zealous crag]

It's bone 006L which is the left hip. I'll rename them soon, dw

[zealous crag]

This is the wrong channel to ask lol

[low estuary]

Sorry lol

[pale pumice]

whichever one you like

very subjective question.

[zealous crag]

Is it even possible to parent two bones at ones?

once*

Nvm dont answer that

[pale pumice]

no

a bone may have only one parent

[zealous crag]

I figured it out

I selected both hips at the same time and then parented it using the box

Okay, when I have everything I want parented, what's the next step?

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what your goal is, was just answering the question about mirroring

[zealous crag]

Ohhh, okay.

I'm just tryna finish the rig

[pale pumice]

weight paint, at a guess?

[zealous crag]

probably

I'm getting the heat weight error which I'm trying to fix

[zealous crag]

I fixed the error after like two hours of messing around with the rig, I'm just tryna figure out physbones now

[gusty wind]

So you need help me with the physbones

[zealous crag]

Huh?

I think I did physbones right

The physbones are in the hair and earrings.
I just don't know what to do from here besides weight painting. Do I need to generate a rigify model to do this too? Because if so, it's not working.

[gusty wind]

Okay

[gusty wind]

But why does the Avi look more likely creepy, or is that the fashion you are going for

[zealous crag]

Creepy??

[zealous crag]

Hey, does anyone have experience with lpoly avatars with dresses like this? I can't seem to find a way to weight paint it. I've tried every possible combination I could think of. Both hips are identical, and this is the best I can do without making it worse. I just don't want the legs to clip through.

[zealous crag]

I also want to know what I should do about this arm. There's no vertices in the middle, and so it won't let me paint where I want it to bend. Will this be a problem in Unity or can this be fixed in Unity?
And if not, how do I fix it in blender?

[arctic sundial]

you need geometry there, period

[zealous crag]

Okay. I wanted to add loopcuts, but it told me loopcuts won't work well on a "deformed mesh". Should I still add those regardless or is there something I can do to get rid of that warning before I do it in case it really does mess up my model?

[pale pumice]

show your geometry when showing pics like this. Also, are these all the bones? You have no bones for the skirt itself? It should be just a matter of paining partly to each leg then.

[zealous crag]

Should I add bones to the skirt??

[pale pumice]

do you want it to move separately from the legs?

(if yes, add bones)

[zealous crag]

I want it to move with the legs. The legs clip through the skirt.

[zealous crag]

This

Also, is there a certain way I should weight paint this so the knees don't bend like this? They morph weirdly.

Fixed it. :)

[fading verge]

quick anim someone made with my rig 📘

[copper vessel]

If anyone can help me rig glowsticks to an avi could you DM me?? It’s set all in one prefab asset so idk what to do because the arm ones don’t follow the arms and there’s no way to separate the glowsticks from the prefab that I know of

[fading verge]

wip

[fading verge]

added fk ik switch for arms n legs

custom bones wip

[twin idol]

Are you making this rig for animation in blender?

[fading verge]

yep

may try ti export to vr

but ehhh

drc

[twin idol]

alright, was about to say that ik/fk wont transfer over to unity

anyways, can anyone tell me where on an avatar the hip bone should start? I see people placing it somewhere in the abdomen on their avis and I can't seem to find an official recommendation of what landmark to look for

[fading verge]

ehh its easy to make anyway

hem lowk

i just study

actual anatomy

ive been rigging

for a while

so

im used to placing it properly

but idk how to explainit

[twin idol]

proper anatomy doesn't exactly translate to vrc. Leg bones needs to be straight in vrc when irl the thigh bone does angle outwards

I am very conveniently rigging a skeleton so I can show what i mean lol

[fading verge]

weird

well oll get it eventually

[twin idol]

real life proportions to apply though for good fbt results

[fading verge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/470726598145081346/1300209308021166152/cat_eat.gif

[sharp ferry]

I'm having this issue were the finger shortens itself whenever I enter play mode

[full seal]

this is the fbx import of gamevketchan avatar from booth

did I make a wrong selection during import or is there aautomated fix for this sort of issue?

[pale pumice]

this is how game imports happen sometimes. if the bones are actually parented well, you could probably script sticking the parent's tail on the child's head, but I don't know if there's an actual tool for it, and it probably wouldn't really be ideal anyway if there are multiple children for a given parent.

probably could do it for the humanoid bones

[nova shard]

You have to weightpaint the sweater's mesh onto the same bones the base's body uses or if its already rigged/they share the exact same naming scheme you could merge the two together

also multi-posting across all the channels will get confusing for you so you really should only post in one at a time

[long terrace]

Sorry ;-;

Yes, but how do we do that? I don't understand everything...

[nova shard]

This is a quick guide that goes over the basics of weightpainting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fICQmBEt4Y but theres likely some better in-depth tuts in this channel or you could just look up youtube videos

basically you'd be adding the sweater to the body in blender nothing would be done in unity unless the sweater was made for that base/to work with that base

[fading verge]

for clothes there id a plugin called robust weght painting

made for clothes

[zealous crag]

It kind of depends on the model you're making, but basically you want it to start where you want your avatar to bend. You don't need to rig a pelvis, so generally most humanoid avatars you would put it below the pelvis/align it with the crotch. If humanoid is not what you're going for or what I said isn't what you meant, lmk
There's also a pin on what VRC humanoid models work best in the channel

[full seal]

It ended up being a matter of rotating - 90 on the z axis while set to normal

[pale pumice]

nice! I love when things are easy

[zealous crag]

I realized something was wrong with the arm's fingers, so I edited them and then deleted the other side to symmetrize.. but the symmetry is off. Any way I can fix this for it to be a perfect mirror?

The entire arm is what I'm trying to mirror.

[pale pumice]

I'd duplicate the bones then mirror them on the X axis.

[zealous crag]

Forgot to update this lol dw I figured it out. My model wasn't properly aligned on the origin, so it wouldn't mirror correctly.

[pale pumice]

ah yeah, that'll do it.

[zealous crag]

I'm just weightpainting now, I had to cut a bunch of geometry to make the fingers bend. I found that putting a 0.2 weight on the top of the finger and a 1.0 weight on the bottom makes them bend near perfectly which I'm happy about

[pale pumice]

Yeah sometimes you have to do a bit or re-modeling to get things to bend right, and you only discover it's needed when weight painting gets frustrating

[zealous crag]

Yeah. 😭
I've deleted my armature at least 5 times now and repasted it because I realized I needed loop cuts somewhere

[pale pumice]

why would you delete it?

[zealous crag]

It always gave me an error if I tried to loopcut while the armature was attached, and someone posted on the blender site that deleting it and then repasting it usually worked for them- and it worked for me so

[pale pumice]

huh I've never seen that ever, fascinating

[zealous crag]

Yeah, it's because of the "loopcut will not work on deformed mesh" error.

[pale pumice]

that's usually a warning, and it will work, depending on geometry

you can also just select the edges and subdivide them

[zealous crag]

How do I get the finger bones to move with the hand when I move it?

They are parented

[zealous crag]

Will it even matter here than VRC?

Nvm I fixed it

[fringe vapor]

hey guys so ive been trying merge these two armatures togeather for susie but i cant seem to get them to merge correctly, for some reason one of them moves like twice as fast like after i merge them together? does anyone know of like a fix or a tip for this?

im not 100% certain but i feel like it has to do somthing with like the vertex groups?

[robust crescent]

identical armature?, just merge both meshes and delete the other armature ( ctrl+j )

[fringe vapor]

wait if i like merge the meshes will i be able to like toggle them on seprately later?

[robust crescent]

2 different materials, you can seperate after

[fringe vapor]

cause like the goal is to be able to like do this

[fringe vapor]

sweet thx, yeah I havent thought of doing that it works now

[pale pumice]

not sure I see the point of a full-body swap within the same avatar, just change avatars.

[patent ether]

How can I make it so when the selected bone moves only pacific objects moves?

[balmy delta]

dont think the entire pacific ocean is an object
you need to weight paint it

[patent ether]

specific I meant

[balmy delta]

you need to weight paint the part of the object you want to be affected by the bone

[patent ether]

Do I have to? Literally I just want curtain whole OBJECTS to move, not parts of them

[balmy delta]

thats literally how models work

✨weightpainting✨

[patent ether]

💔🥀

[balmy delta]

you have to at some point weight paint it so it actually moves when the bone moves

[patent ether]

So what I just selected the objects I want and drench them in red?

[pale pumice]

Rather than painting, you can tab to edit mode, select parts, tab back to weight paint mode, enable the paint mask (upper left) and then use weight -> set weight

[balmy delta]

or just apply it in the green tirangle

[pale pumice]

ah the hotkey for the mask is "1"

[pale pumice]

hmm? where is that

[balmy delta]

in edit mode its the upside down green triangle icon

where visemes are

[pale pumice]

you mean the data tab in the properties box?

[balmy delta]

if thats what its called

I forgor

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure where weight is there

[balmy delta]

its the list above visemes

[pale pumice]

do you mean vertex groups?

[balmy delta]

yea

you can just do it there

[pale pumice]

oh I see, in edit mode, yeah

[balmy delta]

I said in edit mode

[pale pumice]

Yes, this works if you are setting weight for an entire group

[balmy delta]

which assuming the person is wanting to do it for the entire eye but doesnt want to use weight paint mode

[pale pumice]

yep, probably in this case that'll work

[balmy delta]

which like weight painting is tedious when it comes to making stuff not clip but like its a robot and weight painting isnt going to bite your arm off

[pale pumice]

I often use the "set weight" method for rigid objects

I rarely find I have a whole group having all vertices one weight but on a robot that's probably the case

[balmy delta]

I usually do it in edit mode cause
click vertice
ctrl L
apply 100 weight

[patent ether]

How do enable paint mask?

[pale pumice]

hotkey is 1 - it's one of the little icons at the upper left in weight paint mode

[patent ether]

ts pmo 💔🥀

[pale pumice]

?

[patent ether]

pressing set weight does this

[pale pumice]

works for me

it assumes you have a bone selected, of course.

[patent ether]

?

How am I supposed to have both objects and a bone selected???

[pale pumice]

This is weight paint 101. Start in object mode. Select armature, shift-select mesh, switch to weight paint mode.
ctrl+shift-click the bone you want to paint to (or select it from the dropdown at the top). Now paint.
Or, tab to edit mode, select mesh. Tab back, enable the mask, set weight.

[patent ether]

yeah neither of those work...

[pale pumice]

works for me exactly like this.

Wait, do you have an armature modifier on your mesh?

I don't see it in that last image but it's clipped so I've no idea what's selected

[balmy delta]

did you even parent it to the armature or even have the vertex groups added

[pale pumice]

iirc parenting isn't relevant (for weight painting) and it'll add the vertex groups when you start painting, but the armature modifier is required.

[balmy delta]

Id assume it not being parented wouldnt let the modifier work

[pale pumice]

I don't think it's relevant

ah - it seems it actually is!

... maybe, I got my blender in a weird state here, hang on

ok yeah it isn't required. But if you have it as a child of the armature, with the armature modifier, then un-parent it, it seems you lose the armature modifier and then it doesn't work.
But re-adding just the modifier does indeed make it work fine.

[balmy delta]

that is confusing

[pale pumice]

You do ultimately want meshes to be children of the armature though, so it doesn't make sense not to.

[balmy delta]

at some point Id recommend joining those meshes though cause holy hell thats a lot

[pale pumice]

oh absolutely! I'd just join all of the body meshes into one.

[balmy delta]

I also just parent with empty groups as a habit cause it makes no difference having the vertex groups already there

[pale pumice]

ah I don't add groups I don't use

I doubt it makes much difference though

[balmy delta]

not from what I can tell

pretty sure there is a thing that lets you remove unused groups

[pale pumice]

I wrote such a script, it's in my github 🙂

(I couldn't find one)

[balmy delta]

was that not already a function or is it only materials that has it

[pale pumice]

as far as I can tell, it's not already a function

[patent ether]

oh that was the issue, tysm!

[pale pumice]

ah good

[digital sphinx]

how to fix the issue where the ground lvl is not the ground

like something with the ik is messed up causing the floor to be not at the correct height

the floor lvl becomes 1ft higher than its supposed to be with the avatar

[pale pumice]

make sure the avatar's origins, for all parts, are at the world origin, and the avatar is standing on that point. And all transforms are applied.
In blender or similar, that is.

[shadow pebble]

anybody have experience with weight painting muscular arms?

[pale pumice]

do you mean you want to see muscle movements working?

Most of my avatars have an extra upper arm bone that rotates along with the forearm to cause the bicep muscle to pop out, it's pretty noticeable if you're looking, though I think most people never look.
Also have tried it on quads but you really don't see that one.

[shadow pebble]

may i see how youve got it it set up?

the extra bone

that might solve some of my issues

[pale pumice]

The head is at the same point as the upper arm's head, it's about 3/4 the length. Constrained to rotate on just the one obvious axis, I forget which it actually is in Unity.

weight paint is just roughly where the muscle is, you'd need to set it up for your own use of course.
I don't have the project open but I think it does about 50% of the rotation of the lower arm

oh and it's a child of the upper arm bone, so it rotates correctly along with that

[shadow pebble]

maybe a silly question but do bone constraints transfer from blender or is it something that needs to be set up in unity

[pale pumice]

I saw a video of someone doing this on a leg like, 3 years ago?

they don't transfer - I set them up in both places.

[shadow pebble]

ah okay

[pale pumice]

I also do a lot of rotation limiters in Blender to make sure my bones don't move in weird ways when I'm trying to weight paint, some joints only move on one axis.

[shadow pebble]

every party of the body has been fine but whenever i get to the arms its just a never ending uphill battle, getting the forearm to look right kills me every time

[pale pumice]

I usually do muscles like this for biceps and quads, twist bones for upper and lower arms, and shaping bones for the butt, that joint deforms weird without on lots of models. And occasionally one for elbow shaping.

[shadow pebble]

for context the character has like really really muscular arms

[pale pumice]

yeah and you'll want those to actually activate, or it looks... fake.

[shadow pebble]

yeah

[pale pumice]

I get that we're cartoons and furries and such but I like a little bit of realism 🙂

[shadow pebble]

me too

[pale pumice]

my friend has a sort of tilt sensor using physbones that biases her tail off to the side when she leans over, I have to get around to copying that idea, it looks great

[shadow pebble]

does the model have to be a perfect a-pose with arms straight out or can it be like this for VRC? Ive already been wrestling around with a perfect a-pose but that might be part of my issue

[shadow pebble]

ohhh that’s cool

[pale pumice]

oh I see, I saw this character a few days ago. Quite muscley

[shadow pebble]

yar

[pale pumice]

I prefer T-pose for setting up stuff in Unity and usually Blender, but A pose is great for fitting clothing

[shadow pebble]

can the arms be pushed forward like that in a more natural stance or should they be straight out to the sides?

if that makes sense

im just concerned it’ll mess soemthing up

[pale pumice]

hmm I'm not sure, I haven't tried it

[shadow pebble]

hecky

[tiny violet]

unity will enforce t-pose when you set up the fbx so it should be okay

if not you can just go back and change it later unless you have more work to do in blender

[shadow pebble]

okay 👍

ty

[shut path]

can someone help me rig a very small model like just the arms

they have just a ball for the hand

[pale pumice]

if you want it to be humanoid, see the pin in here for the ideal humanoid armature. Not sure how well that'll work though.

at least weight paint will be easy, with rigid parts

[shut path]

Im trying to make this as an avatar but theres issues with the sdk

can anyone help

[balmy delta]

Thats not humanoid in the slightest

[shut path]

Yeah

And thats why idk how to go abt it

[balmy delta]

You require a humanoid rig

[shut path]

How do I aqquire one

[balmy delta]

You were literally linked to a guide earlier

#avatar-rigging message

[shut path]

ohh oki

sorry

how do I follow that with my avatar

auctually

how would i rig that to my avatar

and where can I get a preset

[balmy delta]

There are no presets

Its just
Hip, spine, chest, neck, head
Leg, lower leg, ankle
Shoulder, arm, elbow, hand

[shut path]

How would I rig it to this

cause its not humanoid

[balmy delta]

Bones dont need to be weight painted

They just need to exist

[shut path]

do you have to name them?

[balmy delta]

no but its useful for when you rig it as humanoid in unity later

[signal grotto]

how would I go about not getting the jacket to clip through pants I know clothes are hard to do and I've avoided doing clothes for this reason

[pale pumice]

maybe weight painting, maybe shrink the body below the clothing, maybe remodel the clothing, it's very hard to tell from an image like this

[signal grotto]

i shrunk the clothing below already and its weight painted

[pale pumice]

doesn't mean it's weight painted well

[signal grotto]

is it possible to have it move with a walk animation by using blend shapes?

might save me the hassle if it can

[balmy delta]

blendshapes would definitely be more of a hassle

[pale pumice]

wow that'd be horrible to do, you can't really control the inbetween path of the pixels

[weary hollow]

does anyone know a unity compatible way to fix the pelvis to upper leg deformation?

[tiny sable]

If you haven't you should probably check out corrective blendshapes I work in Maya so I don't know if it's any different in blender but really nice tool to fix deformations on certain angles

[weary hollow]

How could i set them up? I have heard of those but blender only has shape keys

Most stuff on blender Is like propietary aka it doesnt meet the fbx standard

[tiny sable]

Hum in blender I can't be of any help probably should look for some tutorials, I used shape keys in the past could probably work, you just need to move the vertices on the right angle where the deformation happens and key each pose, will it export? Well that's up to blender luck ig

[shadow pebble]

@pale pumice what component did you use for the biceps

[pale pumice]

the muscle movement thing? rotation constraint

[shadow pebble]

is there a way to convert the rotation of another bone into transformation

[pale pumice]

what do you mean by transformation?

[shadow pebble]

like when the forearm rotates i want the bicep bone to move up

[pale pumice]

up as in translate up? You can't convert rotation to translation

well.... you can with an armature but you can't really constrain bones to move in specific ways in vrchat, so it's tricky to do this well

[shadow pebble]

can you show me how you did your biceps then?

[pale pumice]

You read where I explained it, right?

[shadow pebble]

oh right mb

i see now!

[pale pumice]

ah good 🙂

[shadow pebble]

also is there a way reimport an fbx without having to reconfigure everything if i made a small change to the mesh

the reimport button doesnt seem to be doing anything

[pale pumice]

simply overwrite the .fbx. If you didn't unpack and don't make drastic changes it should work fine.

If you did unpack the avatar prefab, this won't work, drag a new copy into the scene and start over, or use Pumkin's tools to copy stuff over.

(and don't unpack)

[shadow pebble]

oh thank you!

[weary hollow]

hey sso i pretty much have aa little struggle with avatar rigging on the pelvis to crotch area, the following image is pretty much how i want it to deform, next image will be how it actually deforms. do you all have any ideas onto how could i achieve this?

this is how it deforms in reality

the first image was made with a shape key btw

[arctic sundial]

you wont ever get it this smooth with just weights unless you add a "anti deform" bone that holds weight exactly at the top crease. another option is to work with corrective blendshapes

[idle marlin]

I’m looking into buying the avatar base called “Velle” since I tried the demo and really liked the face tracking, but the body proportions feel pretty off. How hard is it to adjust those, or is it even possible? Finding an avatar that fits my 185cm height right out of the box has been tricky, so I just want to know if editing proportions is doable on bought avatars.

[arctic sundial]

You can literally pose the avatar (pose arms longer for example) and apply that as a new rest pose. With CATS blender plugin this is done in 3 clicks no joke

[weary hollow]

But far to My knowledge unity doesnt support corrective blendshapes

Like how blender does

[weary hollow]

If You have the FBX file Is totally doable

[weary hollow]

Yeah but this issue relies mostly on the legs and You ain't joking about the weight painting part, what i managed to do Is literally the Best possible it can get

[weary hollow]

Yeah i was considering the helper bone part but i must really figure it out totally, to make sure it doesnt interfere with the other bone's weights

[idle marlin]

what if the avatar doesnt include a fbx in the downloaded files can i make one from the prefab?

[weary hollow]

You could maybe extract it but its way better if it either has an FBX or a .blend file

Those are a little bit more editable

And besides You may infringe the creator's terms by ripping (some creators may not allow the extraction of assets)

Usually avatar bases come with an editable, a unity project and a substance painter project too

[idle marlin]

ill give this tool a try

[weary hollow]

Oh well that's totally up to you

[idle marlin]

wasnt there a robot avatar template where you could adjust it to your body proportions so you have a reference?

[idle marlin]

found another free tool on github that does basically the same https://github.com/kittynXR/imscaler

made a thingy in fusion 360 with my body hight and arm length so i have a reference lol

[arctic sundial]

Good lord, you had to ping 3 times?

[arctic sundial]

A prefab is an fbx+unity stuff.

[idle marlin]

yeah whatever the tool for unity seems to work fine

[weary hollow]

update, reallly managed to fix it by adding a helper bone

while its not perfect it deforms way nicer

[pale pumice]

I like helper bones for stuff like this

[restive wind]

Is there any easy fix to a messed up weight paint

[pale pumice]

depends a lot on what "messed up" means, but probably the answer is to just weight paint 🙂

[weary hollow]

Make sure to 1, have auto normalized enabled and 2 do not stay with whatever automatic weight painting gives you

[pale pumice]

Definitely.

[weary hollow]

Another update, it deforms Bad on unity

I have tried the built in rotation constraints and they're just garbage

[arctic sundial]

Unity strips weights down so that max. 4 bones can affect any given vertex. You can check how it is for unity by going to weights dropdown (or search) and "limit total" and set the limit number in the next popup to 4.

[weary hollow]

No, its actually the constraint's fault since it doesnt transform as i expect it to

Since weights are actually normalized

[arctic sundial]

Fair enough, should be an easy fix in that case

Hold on, constraint? The helper bone moves? It shouldnt...?

[weary hollow]

It should move but it doesnt move the way that i need it to, essentially ruining the entire purpose of fixing things

[arctic sundial]

Why should it move? I dont see the reason as it only counterweights the upper leg squish

[weary hollow]

Well, rotate actually since when i test My avi, the constraints for some reason inflate the legs on a awful way

[arctic sundial]

Sounds like you have a constraint on it and just assign a new source (like from an old setup)

Aka its not fully zeroed before adding source bone

[weary hollow]

Actually no, the thing Is that on blender it works fine. But when i added the constraint with similar settings, it rotated entirely differently

When testing on play mode for some reason it would inflate the hips weirdly

Thing that does NOT happen on blender

[arctic sundial]

Well then without seeing the whole thing I can't tell you why

[weary hollow]

Once i can i Will be able to tell You, right now My PC pretty much Is fully disconnected from power

[summer adder]

Does anyone here repair models i need a raphael TMNT model fixed with topology and seams and rigging

[arctic sundial]

Dont ask for services here <.<

[summer adder]

Then where

[robust nymph]

Go to VRC traders there should be a link around here somewhere. Too many scammers here.

Also, I have a question what’s the bear necessities of bones that you need for a functioning VR chat avatar?

[brazen island]

toes, fingers, upper chest are optional

[silk halo]

blender isnt letting me install CATS what do i do?

[pale pumice]

make sure you install the right version for the version of blender you have, and if that still doesn't work, of course we'd need to look at an error message or something.

[forest nova]

Can someone help me

i need help with some rigging

please do not send me a friend request

[pale pumice]

Explain what it is you're trying to do, then perhaps

[forest nova]

that

i wana fix that

this was a model i got from cgtraders

[pale pumice]

fix what about it?

[forest nova]

how it looks in the blender

i converted it to an fbx

[pale pumice]

doesn't seem unreasonable. There IS a discord specifically for multi-limbed or non-humanoid avatars like this, "Virtual Limbs"

[forest nova]

ok

ty

ill check it out

[pale pumice]

Yeah probably your best bet

[forest nova]

id ask creator for help but they are very busy

[violet girder]

might've put it in either the wrong area or the right one but
does anybody know how to fix this as I've tried copy and create from model and as you can see it likes to be Reed Richards against responsibility

[pale pumice]

probably you exported from blender with the wrong scaling settings - did you set "Apply scalings" to "FBX All"?

(in the export dialog)

[violet girder]

how do i check that?
oh let me see if i can find that

[pale pumice]

You basically have to export with the same settings as were previously used, or the scaling is off

[violet girder]

i can't find anything with that on export

[violet girder]

oooooo thank you i see it now

[wind sigil]

inside the chest, where is a breast's root placed?

[pale pumice]

I'd triangulate a point from both breast root bone heads and the chest bone at roughly the same level vertically, and stick it roughly there.

[wind sigil]

thank you much!

[thick fiber]

how do i fix these crotch legs?
been killing my avatars for a long time never managed to fix it :/

[balmy delta]

"crotch legs"?

[thick fiber]

Legs on my avatar stand like this, no clue how to fix it

Don't got a better description other then crotch legs

[balmy delta]

you mean crouching?

you are too short for the playspace height you set in game

[thick fiber]

Didn't help

The legs still bend outwards

In the default position I stand on, and I play on desktop

The knees bends out strangly, if I twist around in game a bit they straighten up

[thick fiber]

i went in to some more testin

my legs lean back alot, Mikel Jackson moves

[robust crescent]

how's those bones looking from side in blender, should be straight'ish

[thick fiber]

ya, i have been trying to straightne them in Blender

they look alright

[robust crescent]

*side

[thick fiber]

i tried to intentionally misalign them because when they were perfectly straight they didn't work

[robust crescent]

remember posture check (spine) it will do odd things if they arent similar to that

[thick fiber]

could this be the issue?

[robust crescent]

Would be my guess, it will try to straighten your av in vrchat

[thick fiber]

will adjust a bit more

straight other parts then try it ou t

nope didn't help

:/

[limpid bridge]

i had the exact same problem
i managed to fix it by unmapping the toe bones in the unity humanoid rig
if you still want "toes" though, i did manage to come up with a trick:
just add physbones to the toe bones and add a floor collider and set every option for the physbone to 1
i'll screenshot my settings once i open my project again, sorry if i'm bad at explaining

i'm not entirely sure why the issue happens though
but i believe it has something to do with the ik? (ps: changing the ik animation in the ik controller does nothing xD)

hope this was useful

[silk halo]

anyone good reshaping clothes to fit any avi? im struggling hella bad

[pale pumice]

"any" dunno, but I've done some reshaping

[silk halo]

i be dturggling so har

[civic dirge]

Can anyone help me with the rigging and weightpanting ?

[pale pumice]

Sure, ask feel free to ask specific questions.

[civic dirge]

Mind if we call I'm not really good at texting ,,

[pale pumice]

sorry, I don't do that

[civic dirge]

Thats okay !

I can try to type

Can we dm ?

[pale pumice]

if you keep it in here, anyone can help.

[civic dirge]

Okay

So I took a rig that I made and pasted it on the model

Is the somthing I should do to connect it?

Or does it automatically connect

[pale pumice]

I'm assuming you mean in Blender - the mesh objects will need an armature modifier pointing at that armature.

[civic dirge]

Huh

I'm really new to blender

[wind sigil]

this is so smart

[stable furnace]

Guys rate my rigging skills 👌

[worthy abyss]

yall i have no idea if this is the correct place to put this or not (if not im sorry) but can somebody tell me wtf is going on

[proper thunder]

Trying to make a humanoid, I have "hips" as the root but apparently Transform 'hips' not found in HumanDescription. Why is it suddenly rejecting it?

[proper thunder]

Ok so I applied the model as Generic then applied it back as Humanoid and the error is gone for now, so that's really weird.

[arctic sundial]

The message means "i (unity) failed to auto recognize this bone". You can always go to the rig tab in your import settings and assign bones that are either missing or where unity filled the wrong ones. Its by no means perfect

[proper thunder]

The bones have always been correctly assigned though.

[arctic sundial]

I have the same thing where once a blue moon it doesnt while any other time its fine and no changes were made to the rig

[mental hamlet]

I always see there are 3 bones above the hip bone, while my model only has two (spine and chest). I remember there can also be a upper chest bone or what is the big bone in this picture?

[pale pumice]

Spine hierarchy should be: hips -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (the big one) -> neck -> head

[mental hamlet]

is it bad that my model never had a upper chest?

I play with it since years lol just changing the look here and there

[pale pumice]

no, it's entirely optional

[hollow quartz]

either mirroring or proportional editing. you have both on, so try it without one or the other, or neither on

[pine yoke]

weightpainting, my beloathed. 😔

[pale pumice]

yep.

[balmy delta]

Separate selection
Weight transfer
Join and merge by distance
My beloved

[pine yoke]

right hold on

transfer mesh data pop-up, right?

[balmy delta]

Well

Select first mesh then select the other keeping the first selected
Weight paint mode
Transfer weights

Lemme find the video

https://youtube.com/shorts/sYLo3TcoKLE?si=1QUiOtNOa5Bejegh

[mental hamlet]

I try to fix my bones cause I have crooked legs, and looking at the rig the bones might be the issue. But after editing the bones and overwriting the fbx now in Unity it gives me an error. Any idea how to fix this or if the legs are screwed from something else?

first picture is how it currently looks in game, second is what I want.

[robust crescent]

set it generic and back to humanoid it will get the values right , if you change bones & overwrite the fbx it will tell you (like your error)