avatar-rigging

[fading verge]

So that i can avoid manually making and applying weight paint and vertex groups.

New to Blender. Need to understand how the issue works.

[burnt goblet]

Well If the clothing hasn't already been weight painted it will need to be, You can do so easily with blenders auto weight function after you get the mesh parented to the armature

are your pants parented to the avatars armature yet?

[fading verge]

Pretty sure that's done already.

The weight paint i meant.

And i already parent the pants to the armature by using CATS but the issue is that the avatar has extra bones that the outfit doesnt have.

[burnt goblet]

Im not really sure what you mean, There should only be one armature and not multiple, If your pants have their own armature that isn't the avatars armature that will not work, you will need to copy the weight paint from the armature on the pants to the respective bones on the avatars armature after you move the mesh into the desired location on the avatar

Is this what you mean?

[fading verge]

I am probably not explaining it right. Usually, I just show it to people using Discord to get a better understanding on what i'm doing or what i want to do.

[burnt goblet]

Can you do a screen snip

[pale pumice]

It's fine to just overwrite it, Unity will just reimport, but if you're messing with bones you may need to redo the rig

[pale pumice]

You add an Armature modifier to the clothing and set it to the avatar's armature, then make the clothing objects children of the armature, like the body is.

[fading verge]

I'll try to be clear as much as I can. Because this model in particular is a modified to the original, the only thing the clothes doesn't have are these weight paints and vertex groups.

I wanna apply them to the pants but i wanna know if i can just copy data from the avy to the pants. Hesitant that i might screw up if i'll try to do it manually.

[pale pumice]

Yes, you can copy the data over with a Data Transfer modifier

[fading verge]

Data what now?

That exists?

[pale pumice]

yep

[fading verge]

Wanna show me how it's done?

[pale pumice]

nope, just want to point you at the documentation, 'cause I've never actually done this 🙂

[fading verge]

[burnt goblet]

Just search up the modifier and how to use it , I myself have never used any modifier and have just used time and effort to manually make any clothing weight paint similar to the avatars weight paint. You can't really screw anything up, After your done seperate the leg mesh thats under the clothes and delete it if your not going to have the clothing removable

Its really as simple as selecting the bones on the mesh that are going to control the pants and auto weight painting and cleaning it up a bit if thing dont look exactly right

[fading verge]

I'll try to look it up.

[fading verge]

Do clothing requires Bones?

Or do i just weight paint and call it a day?

[pale pumice]

weight panting attaches mesh to bones, so it moves with the bones. So yeah, it'll have them - ideally the avatar's armature

[fading verge]

I'd imagine all i have to do is weight paint since i already parent the pants with the avatar.

As long a item is parented with the avatar, they should have it's bones, right?

[pale pumice]

no, each mesh object needs the armature modifier too

actual parenting in Blender does nothing here

[humble beacon]

For your clothing mesh, add a modifier called Data Transfer, select you body mesh as the source, then select the checkmark that says "Vertex groups", click the "Generate data layers" button and then apply the modifier. This will create the weight groups in your pants based on proximity to the source mesh. One problem however, is that these weight paints are usually badly normalised and can behave in a weird, blocky manner. So what I usually do after this is go to weight paint mode and manually smooth all of them out with a blur brush

Oh, and don't forget to delete all the old weight groups from your pants before doing this

[fading verge]

So i figured out how to transfer data and i smoothed out the weight paint with the blur tool.

Any idea what could be the issue here?

[kind mortar]

Might wanna make the mesh bigger

[fading verge]

I had the feeling, i just wanted to hear opinions about it. I'll see if that changes anything.

[quaint cosmos]

Yeah, you can use the inflate tool on the pants a bit or if you don't need the leg geometry underneath, just delete it.

[soft dagger]

i merged the bones together (there were several for each individual tail) and the weights are messed up but, im unsure how to reweight each seperate one? theyre all in one material together, im totally unsure on how to even weight paint in blender :(

[dusty bramble]

alright im not really sure where to put this but my friend cant verify into the server so im speaking on his behalf, he says "Can someone help it's saying the upper arms aren't specified and I don't know how to fix it" on this, does anyone know how to help?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1043400655714402304/1064280558135418931/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_61fa89ab-584e-46c8-8194-10acaccbb62d.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1043400655714402304/1064280659687911514/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_709fc229-8d2e-412c-8917-4da55e190a03.jpg

[quaint cosmos]

Have you tried assigning them manually? I imagine the automatic configuration tool is having a hell of a time finding them with them all named bone.xx

[dusty bramble]

he said he's already tried/done that

[quaint cosmos]

It would be good to get a clear shot of the hierarchy. Windows has a screen snipping tool so you don't need to take pictures with your phone

It looks like there are a bunch of bones assigned in the torso and I don't know what those are

[dusty bramble]

alr hold on i think he's getting one

[dusty bramble]

he's confused what you mean by it, sorry im not really sure how to make avatars im just a middle man, would it be alright if in a few minutes i can make a group chat with you and my friend to make it easier?

[quaint cosmos]

I'm pretty occupied with other stuff. The spine should just go hips, spine, chest, upper chest (optional), neck, and head. If there are other bones there, they're probably getting in the way. The legs should just be upper leg, lower, leg, foot, and the arms should be upper arm, lower arm, hand, and then 3 finger bone per finger. If there are bones getting in the way, get rid of them.

It would probably best for him just to watch some VRChat rigging tutorials as there seem to be a lot of bad practices here. You can find a bunch of avatar creation tutorials out there

[dusty bramble]

alrighty, thank you for the help

[opaque crag]

Can I get an armature example for a FBT avatar that has a really good 'rolling' hip movement motion

my model just.. Doesn't do that very well

[fading verge]

my vrc sdk thing says humanoid avatar must have head, hands, and feet bones mapped how do i fix this?

[pale pumice]

Have you mapped those bones properly?

[fading verge]

ye

might've fixed it by changing it from humanoid to generic

[pale pumice]

That's probably not at all what you want, unless it's actually not humanoid

[fading verge]

its a trans former guy

[pale pumice]

I'm assuming that means "humanoid" in which case you want the rig to be humanoid

[wet wren]

help

[last brook]

When I use the CATS plugin to merge my body armature and my hair armature, the hair will only respond to the HEAD bone from the initial body armature. The hair no longer responds to the hair bones. How can i fix this? checked the hair, and it is still connected to all the proper hair bones. Before linking with CATS, I could move the hair properly with the bones.

What can i do to fix this?

[pale pumice]

it is still connected to all the proper hair bones
How do you mean, connected?

[steady acorn]

trying to rig my av and the bone wont show up nor has any size, I tried changing size location and set it to wire but theres nothing

o nvm I was trying to view it in sculpt 💀

[steady acorn]

ok im back nd im tryna extrude the bones with e but it aint working, did they update that or?

[kind mortar]

Probably should just weight paint the parts yourself, be easier then relying on Cats entirely, lotta people do that and wonder why it goes wrong, it's a helpful tool but it's not a fix all

[wet wren]

Dont mean to be annoyung but can someone say what happened here

[humble beacon]

What am I looking at here?

[wet wren]

The leg got all messed up and got all twisted up towards the back

I just finished rigging it and yea

[humble beacon]

How does it look in blender? Does it become this twisted after importing yo unity?

[wet wren]

Yeah only after importing it

Looks normal on blender

[humble beacon]

Maybe you have some stored roll in the bones

[wet wren]

Stored roll.

?*

[humble beacon]

Yeah, if you select a bone in edit mode in blender, you can check the roll of it

[wet wren]

Honestly this is my very first avi from scratch so im just new ish

[humble beacon]

Sometimes it can be set to something like 90deg or 180deg and not be visible, but cause problems later on

Or maybe you saved some sort of pose in pose mode in blender

[wet wren]

Im not at home atm but i will be in a few hours, is it ok if i send u a freind req to help me later?

[humble beacon]

Yeah sure, but don't know if will be available

[steady acorn]

trying to parent neck bone and head but the box shows up gray, how do I fix it

is there another way in the settings I can set neck to child of head?

[brazen island]

@steady acorn could it be two separate armatures? in object mode select both (main should be yellow) and ctrl+j, then you should be able to parent

also head is child of neck, youre going from hips

[last brook]

I'm not sure why. But I figured out the issue. Apparently my blender is bugged, and once i merge the armatures (this was not necessary before) I now have to select the object, and.... go to weight paint mode. Not DO anything, just put it into weight paint mode, take it back into obj mode, and its... fixed. What a headache...

[steady acorn]

that was it ty

[steady acorn]

cant select a bone in weight painting

the armature and sheet are the only things active

[quaint cosmos]

Can you select the vertex group on the object? That's how I usually weight paint

[median fiber]

my rig is not lining up to mesh when parented

[quaint cosmos]

Have you applied all the transforms to the mesh prior to parenting? Ctrl + A, then Ctrl + G, Ctrl + S, Ctrl + R

[median fiber]

still doesn't work

[quaint cosmos]

And you applied the transforms to every piece? Not sure why this mesh is made of like 100 different objects, I would join them first and then apply the transforms.

[median fiber]

I joined the meshes and applied the transforms. it didn't work tho

[quaint cosmos]

It might be that your armature has been moved. Try opening it in pose mode and clearing all the transforms.

[median fiber]

ok I fixed it

[oak garnet]

can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? I can't for the life of me figure out how to keep it from creasing like this

[kind mortar]

I mean it looks fine to me but if you hate it try darkening up the weight paint there and removing and or lighting up the weight paint of whatever else it's painted to

[oak garnet]

this doesn't look unnatural to you ?

maybe I'm going nuts since I've been on these legs for days

I should also mention I want this model to be really flowy, I don't want any hard creases or angle, I figured there was a method to make that happen

[quaint cosmos]

It doesn't really look bad to me but you might be able to reduce it. You've tried blurring the leg weights up closer to the torso? Generally softer transitions = less creasing.

[oak garnet]

softening the wp on the thighs and the hips makes the crease rounder and softer, but it also makes it bigger

[sleek isle]

penetration is usually better then big crease

[oak garnet]

thats what I'm trying to do

[sleek isle]

remove one edge loop maybe

[oak garnet]

if by penetration you mean ahving the vertices lass eachother so the point where they cross makes a smooth surface

?

let me try that

[sleek isle]

people have low standard in vrc so don't worry too much

[oak garnet]

this is for me tho

I just want it to look nice

I gots a vision

[sleek isle]

I have a dream, where user are not judge by their avatar but their behavior.

[oak garnet]

buddy I just want this thing to look chic and smooth

[sleek isle]

bone placement can help

[oak garnet]

control bones, right ?

[sleek isle]

no just place the leg bone in other place to see if it help

[oak garnet]

think the joints at the top of the thigh need to go higher ? or lower?

this is my first model btw

so I might not know everything

[sleek isle]

can't say

higher maybe

[oak garnet]

thanks a lot, I didn't eliminate the crease but it looks pretty good now

[cyan edge]

Is there anyone that can help me fix the rigging of my Avatar and maybe help me change the scale of the limbs to better match me irl? It just feels so off in game and the wrist bends are so cursed

Looking for assistance, not for someone to do it entirely for me at the moment

[vast compass]

I'm trying to use the "surface heat diffuse skinning" Blender Add-on, but it's not showing up in my Blender for some reason, anyone run into this? 🤔
https://github.com/meshonline/Surface-Heat-Diffuse-Skinning

I'm on Blender 3.4.1, but I've tried it on old versions too, including 2.9, 3.0 and 3.3

Should be a "Mesh Online" tab in there

Might try buying the voxel plugin, as I'll probably end up using it anyway, but I worry I'll have the same issue

(Tried buying the voxel version, which includes the surface plugin, works fine. The github version might be borked!)

[steady acorn]

the bones have no affect on the head stuff

did I miss a step?

actually scratch that, can someone point me to a good weight painting guide

[humble beacon]

Did you add an Armature modifier to the mesh?

[steady acorn]

it appears I didnt

ty

[winter orchid]

Will this avatar be made public?

[tawny cloud]

So i have these two models and did a headswap with them, however in the process of fixing the model n stuff the body somehow managed to lose the breast and butt bones so now i can't add physbones, is there anyway around this??

[humble beacon]

Need to add the bones in blender and weight paint for them

[quaint cosmos]

The weights are likely already there unless those were destroyed as well, you should just need to add bones and name them to match the vertex groups

[wispy agate]

Hai guys I was just wondering when it comes to the bones in my armature, is the roll for all of them meant to be set to 0? and for like the bones that are in the middle so Hips, Spine, Chest, Neck, Head etc is the X axis supposed to be set to 0 as im not sure how or when it happened but its seems the roll has different values on each bone and the bones in the center seem to not all be set to exactly 0, after some google searching I found a setting called recalculate roll but im not sure if that results in the correct roll, hmm might be best to just leave it as is, just been trying to figure out how to fix somethings with my model for awhile and not sure if the roll value might be affecting things

[humble beacon]

Absolutely the bones you mentioned need their roll to be set to 0. Otherwise your eye tracking will not work correctly and sometimes the avatars locomotion can be affected aswell

This also includes the eye bones, btw. Just select those bones in edit mode and hir Alt+R.

[brazen crater]

Hello I was planning on making a spider person avatar how do I get the legs to move correctly? Any help would do. Thanks anyone that answers.

[steady acorn]

probably

dont get ur hopes up thought it might not b great

[brazen crater]

If anyone else needs help with mult limb models this video is helping. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVEI36F-bj8

[pale pumice]

oh neat

[steady acorn]

do u happen to have a tutorial abt weight painting

ive been trying to get this for like 4 days now ;-;

[brazen crater]

If you are untalented in weight painting like me you can always select the vertex s you want to effect. Then go to vertex group section to manual set the weight for those vertex's.

https://youtu.be/4fICQmBEt4Y

If my explanation didn't help this is a quick video on weight painting basics.

[spring birch]

Dumb question: In Blender, how do I copy the weights from one bone to another bone within the same armature? I'm trying to reduce the number of hair bones I'm working with on a model I'm prepping for VRC, and since I cannot weight paint worth anything I want to just take the existing weights and put more of them on fewer bones, then delete the redundant ones. I know this is something I've done before, I just can't for the life of me remember how.

[kind mortar]

you can merge them with cats merge weight to parents for each bone you want gone, sometimes it doesn't merge all the way and you might have to weight paint a bit, it's pretty good

[spring birch]

That helps partially but some of what I want to merge would be like adjacent bones belonging to the same parent

[kind mortar]

Yes, merge the weights to the parent bone, it says right there

[spring birch]

No no no

These two children get merged, parent stays intact.

[robust crescent]

select one bone then other -merge 'to active'

[kind mortar]

Yeah, I don't see the issue 🤷‍♀️

[spring birch]

That's it, thank you

[spring birch]

Merging to parent would be adding those children's weights to the parent, rather than just adding one child's weight to the other child.

[broken trout]

Follow up question: should twist bones be added to shoulders or am I just bad at weight painting

[pale pumice]

Shoulders are really hard

[steady acorn]

ok tysm

[urban plume]

plan on rigging this for full body, where do i even start?

[formal wolf]

Basic ass question about weight-painting in blender: I'm having an issue where the 'draw' brush is too powerful and so is subtract. And it takes too long to switch between them.
The strength I can handle with Shift-F. But is there an easy way to switch between the Draw brush adding and subtracting while weightpainting? Like the way I can reverse a sculpting brush with ctrl in sculpt mode.

[quaint cosmos]

I think you can use numbers (might have to use the numpad vs the top row). I would recommend using a combination of strength and weight so keep the strength pretty low (maybe .05-.1) and keep the weight below the max weight you think you'll want for a given area.

[brazen island]

surgery

[urban plume]

seriously though do u actually know what bones need to go where and stuff? i know it can be done, in fact i already have a full body raptor avatar but only in my avatars menu

[void girder]

guys

my clothing won't attach to my mesh

so it can't move

i tried some stuff but nothing is working

i asked 10 ppl they all don't know

when i click on transfer weights this happends

[rare nest]

Could I see the modifier stacks and the vertex groups for both the avatar and the clothes?

[indigo lake]

do blender bone constraints pass over to unity?

nvm

i think i got it now

[void girder]

uhm im kinda don't know blender in the back of my head

so where is that>

?

[rare nest]

One sec, I'll get screenshots to show you

This is the modifier stack

This is the vertex groups

Seeing these things for both the avatar and the clothes will let me know more about the issue you're having

[void girder]

this is the modifier of the avatar

[urban plume]

any help?

[void girder]

this is the vertex group of the avatar

this is the clothing modifier

[void girder]

this is the vertex group of the clothing

[rare nest]

Alright, those seem about right. Next thing I want to check is if you select the clothing, go into weight paint mode (press tab and click on weight paint), then find something from the torso like "Chest" or "Left Arm" in the vertex groups and click on it, does it show any colors other than a dark blue?

[void girder]

no

it's still blue

my chest is called spine 1

not Chest

Spine 1 = Chest

idk why but the original owner set it that way

[rare nest]

The name doesn't matter much for this case, it seems like the issue is that the mesh didn't get any weight data so it doesn't know how to move with the avatar

[void girder]

so what can i do?

[rare nest]

Was the clothing originally made for the avatar you're putting it on?

[void girder]

No

i got it from something else

i watched a tutorial on how to make clothing on diffrent avatar fit

but the pant's and undershirt work fine

it's just the cropped hoodie

that isn't moving with the avatar

[rare nest]

What did the hoodie look like before you tried doing the transfer weights thing? I see in the screenshot you sent earlier that the arms on it are pointed down after you did transfer weights

[void girder]

this?

[rare nest]

Yes

[void girder]

that is how it looked before the transfer weight

if u mean how it looked on the model i took it from?

[rare nest]

Oh no I meant this picture, the picture you just sent is the one I was asking for

[void girder]

okay

so what should i do to fix this issue

[rare nest]

Okay, next thing I'm gonna have you check is to click on the armature and go to this tab. Click on "rest position" and see what it does

I think the problem may actually be that the arms have been put in an A-pose when it's T-posed by default

[rare nest]

Yep, that's the problem. Move the arms of the hoodie to match that and redo the weight transfer

[void girder]

i moved it before i started putting it on

[void girder]

OKII!!

im getting a error

i can't pose in rest pose mode

[rare nest]

Oops, forgot that was a thing. Okay, switch back to "pose position," go into pose mode on the armature, select everything by pressing A, then alt+R to reset the skeleton to the default pose

You may want to remove the armature modifier from the modifier stack first as well

[void girder]

how do i do that

[rare nest]

Click this X in the modifier stack of the hoodie

[void girder]

ok

[rare nest]

That's just to make sure you don't accidentally end up with two of them

[void girder]

oh ok

im done

it's now doing a t-pose

[rare nest]

Oops, actually you didn't need to do that, it's been a while since I've had to transfer weights so I forgot the process and got it mixed up with parenting with automatic weights. You'll need to put that modifier back and do the data transfer while in T-pose still

[void girder]

ok

how do i put it back

[rare nest]

You can just undo with crtl+z until it shows back up in the modifier stack

[void girder]

but will it still be in t-pose?

[rare nest]

If it's not, you can repeat the process of selecting all the bones in pose mode and pressing alt+R to reset it to T-pose

[void girder]

okay i did it again

this time with the modifier enabled

[rare nest]

Okay, as long as the arms of the hoodie are lined up with the arms of the avatar, you should be able to do the weight transfer like you did before without issue

[void girder]

that's kinda a issue

i alr tried that the hoodie kinda looks bit weir

weird

[rare nest]

What kind of weird?

[void girder]

look very close

[rare nest]

Oh, yeah I see what it's doing. Undo that, find this, and click it to turn it on. It might be on the top or bottom of the window depending on what settings you used while installing blender. It's a setting that basically smooths out the edges of the edits you're making, you can adjust how far it extends by using the scroll wheel. You'll probably need to do more edits after that, but this is the easiest way to get the hoodie into T-pose

[void girder]

it still doesn't look normal

[rare nest]

It's something you'll have to work on a bit, the hoodie wasn't made to do what you're doing with it

[void girder]

wait

[rare nest]

Oh, turning on this setting may help as well, I forgot to mention that

[void girder]

no the arms won't reach the actaul t-pose

discord is blocking my images

[rare nest]

Oh it might be false-flagging the image as containing nudity, that happens sometimes

[void girder]

i put clothes on

so ye

look

[rare nest]

You'll have to move the arm of the hoodie up, not just rotate it

[void girder]

just finest discord

[void girder]

if u do that the hoodie won't fit

[rare nest]

Again, you'll have to edit it until it does fit. They weren't made to fit together, when putting incompatible parts together you have to be the one to make it work

Scale it, move it, rotate it, use the sculpting tools if you have to

[void girder]

ok

[indigo lake]

for some reason my elbows and knees are locked into this kinda stick figure

i know i did the weight painting right since when i move the bones in unity they work fine

was i supposed to put any IK for the elbows?

[urban plume]

anyone?

[rare nest]

Did you make sure to have the knees and elbows slightly bent in the base armature?

[indigo lake]

ah

[rare nest]

From the VRChat docs

[indigo lake]

i think im going to have to restart from scratch

because

in the process of trying to fix it

i

deleted

all of it

nice

[rare nest]

Oop

Can you not undo?

[indigo lake]

nope

but

i remember how to do everything so it wont be too much of a hassle

[rare nest]

That's good at least

[indigo lake]

yeah

[rare nest]

But yeah make sure the bones in the limbs aren't fully straight and that should solve the problem, IK systems generally have trouble with fully straight limbs

[indigo lake]

huh

they were

what else could it have been?

[rare nest]

I'm not really sure in that case, I'm not super familiar with Unity/VRChat's IK system yet

[void girder]

@rare nest

is there a way to mirror the arm

so i don't have to do both sides of the arm

[rare nest]

Easiest way to do that would be mirroring the whole model, though this does mean that the hoodie will look identical on both sides as a warning. Blender has an addon you can enable to do this automatically. Open the preferences, go to the addons tab, search mirror, and enable the Auto Mirror addon. From there, go to the edit tab in the side bar (you can open and close it with N if it's not there,) and you should find the Auto Mirror menu. I'd recommend enabling "Apply Mirror," then click the "AutoMirror" button. This will cut the model down the middle, mirror it, give the mirrored vertex groups the right weights so it moves correctly, and applies the mirror modifier so you don't have to do anything afterwards.

[void girder]

yooo

this is amazing

YEP

oop

Thanks @rare nest

i asked 11 ppl to help but they didin't know how to

[rare nest]

You're welcome! It's not a very common problem so I don't blame them for not knowing how to help

[void girder]

haha

[indigo lake]

i got a photo of the legs not working

[rare nest]

Basically what happened was when you did the data transfer to the hoodie after posing the arms down into an A-pose, it was still treated like the avatar's arms were T-posed, so the hoodie arms moved down even further to match how the arms had been moved down. In the future, don't move the skeleton at all before you do the data transfer or that might happen again

[void girder]

anyone know how to fix this

hand don't look normal

[rain mountain]

according to the tutorial i used the head should move with the bone but it's not and i really don't know why. i added the armature modifier to the head model, i made a vertex group for it and assigned the group to the head, and yet i still cant get the rig to affect the model

[quaint cosmos]

Is the vertex group called "Head"?

[rain mountain]

yeah

[quaint cosmos]

And when you go into edit mode and press select with the Head vertex group selected, it selects the head?

[rain mountain]

yes

[quaint cosmos]

Could you post a screen of the armature modifier?

[quaint cosmos]

Oh wait, I see what it is. You're moving the bone in Edit mode, that won't move any verts, you need to be in Pose mode

[indigo lake]

are you moving it in pose mode?

yea

[rain mountain]

o ok

uhh uhh how do i get it into pose mode

[quaint cosmos]

It's one of the modes in the top left along with object, edit, etc.

Top left of the 3D view

[rain mountain]

OOOOOOOH ok i see

tysm

[stoic zenith]

your in edit mode

oh

never mind u found it

[fading verge]

I'm a desktop user and I am having an issue with my locomotion layer. I am trying to make my avatar stand like in the attached picture, but anytime I upload one it looks like it's standing on an invisible foot stool and it's not cute, not at all. Is there a way to fix it so that the avatar stands the way it does in unity?

Ideally so that my hands, eyes and head move the way they are supposed to but the arms, legs, feet and body look like the pose.

[fading verge]

what would be the best way to rig this guy. I realize that vrchat doesn't like it when the neck and head and head doesn't align with the spine and chest

or will it be fine

am I missing required bones

the arms bones will be normal but not weighted to anything

[quaint cosmos]

Pretty sure you need a spine, chest, neck, and arms to make it a humanoid but if you don't need it to be a humanoid, you can just create your own animation sets. It's a lot more work but it's probably going to be necessary for something like that.

[fading verge]

is it going to be probematic if the head/neck don't align with the chest/spine?

[brazen island]

@fading verge do you really need viewpoint to be where eyes actually are? id just place head in the middle of fish.

[fading verge]

will that actually work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2PPdcUxWCQ
old but relevant. it shows how to rig a dinosaur but still have a humanoid skeleton
you could then bend the armature with an animation, in the action layer, and add a posespace component in the layer to correct the view to the head.

[brazen island]

@fading verge why not. youll be like inside mascot. remeber that vrchat scales head locally to zero so if you paint fish mostly to the head should be fine

[fading verge]

I guess I misunderstand how the viewport actually works

with it so inset I won't end up seeing the inside of the model will I?

[fading verge]

I'll check it out

[brazen island]

@fading verge as i said, whatever weightpainted to the head or children of it getting scaled to zero, you never see your hair hats etc.

[fading verge]

😭

looks good, what saddens you?

[pale pumice]

This fish looks pretty hilarious, I hope you get it working 🙂

[fading verge]

I feel silly not thinking of this sooner

[kind ore]

FISH

[whole valve]

Is there an accurate way to copy the rotation and position of a "bone" in unity to its actual bone in blender (rather than manually trying to line it up so it looks the same)?
I currently have a few objects (weighted to single bones) that sit at 0,0,0 and in Unity i've been parent constraining them to EmptyGameObjects to actually place them in the positions I want. But I now want to basically "bake" a default position into them, so i can remove one constraint source for each (some minor optimization). For example, I usually constraint a sword to the hip, but I instead want to reposition the sword bone to be in that location on the armature itself, by default. The gameobject positions that Unity shows bones as in a scene dont have any values that relate to the bone tail/head coordinates in blender, afaik - I'm hoping there is maybe some technique i can use to accurately copy the position...
Not sure which channel this belongs best in.

[jolly skiff]

the culprit for you is the IK taking over in desktop, trying to imitate foot movements. What you need there is set the tracking of feet to "animation" instead of "tracking" . Gogolocomotion (creator franada) as well as LocomotionFix (Creator/developer me) have capabilities for that built in, if you do not want to edit the locomotion layer by yourself.

[abstract ember]

Using bones for movement for a tie for a shirt. Acts like just 1 joint isn't properly bound to the mesh when I try to pose it. Messed around with Parenting and re-pairing to the mesh and it still won't act quite right. Any solutions? (Blender novice/beginner) help is greatly appreciated!

[buoyant stump]

At a glance looks like weight painting for the mesh itself. Is there any influence from the main parts of the body like the torso?

[rare nest]

That's a result of there being overlapping weight painting for sure. The more bones that a vertex (the little dots that form the points of a polygon) is weighted to, the less it'll move with any of the bones. It looks like the weights across the whole thing is going way past the intended bones, with that part that's not moving probably having weights from all 4 bones. The vertex groups needs to be fixed so that the weight painting sections only overlap slightly with each other

[abstract ember]

I used automatic weights, I haven't done any weight painting. When I try to redo the parent with automatic weight, it gives me an error message, "Loop in Bones" what does that mean?

[rare nest]

Oh, that usually means that somehow one of the bones is the child of a bone it's also a parent of. Go into edit mode on the armature and check the parents of the bones in it

If you can't end up figuring out where the problem is, just delete and remake the armature since it's a simple line of bones

[remote obsidian]

its not moving with the body

[rare nest]

Saw an error pop up on the bottom there. The "failed to find solution" error typically happens when you have disconnected, intersecting meshes like the head and the body. Separate the model into parts and do the parenting individually then join the model back together

Anything that overlaps with another mesh needs to be separated out

[remote obsidian]

um so like

how would i unjoin the head from the body

so i can parent them

im new to modelling lol

[rare nest]

Go into edit mode on the object, select everything by pressing A, press P, separate by loose parts

When you want to join everything back together later, select all the objects you want to be one object and press ctrl+J

[remote obsidian]

uuhhh

didnt work

its still one mesh

eh i might just throw it in mixamo then fix the paws

[rare nest]

Weird, I haven't seen that not work before. Oh well, if mixamo works then there's no problem using that

[remote obsidian]

WELP mixamo cant rig paws and it acrewed them up into a messss

aaaaaaaaa

[rare nest]

Might be time to learn manual weight painting in that case

[remote obsidian]

i tried it but i still cant get the armature to connect

[rare nest]

Try parenting with empty groups instead of automatic weights

[quaint cosmos]

You can always edit a Mixamo rig. It will often mess up the hands but having to correct those is easier than having to do the whole thing manually

[remote obsidian]

🥹 👍 mixamo moment

[quaint cosmos]

It does do that but just move the bones into place in edit mode and do the weight painting for the hands manually and you should be good (along with the head, most likely). Otherwise, you can either rig and weight paint the entire body or fix every vertex group when automatic weights inevitably does a terrible job.

[remote obsidian]

i fixed the paws

but when i go in and out of objext and edit mode the model moves slightly idk why and it stretches the hand

is there a way to fix?

[rare nest]

Looks like the armature got shifted a bit. Go into pose mode, select all the bones, and press alt+G and alt+R (the order you do them in doesn't matter) and that should put the armature back in its default pose

[remote obsidian]

it didnt do anything

its in the right place in edit mode

but in pose or object mode its in the wrong place

[rare nest]

Can you select the armature and turn on rest pose, then tell me if it does anything?

[remote obsidian]

it fixed it but i cant move any of the bones cuz its in that mode

[rare nest]

Okay, change it back to pose position. The problem is what I said before.

Rest position is a kinda debug thing that will temporarily clear anything done to the armature in pose mode, therefore it's something that needs to be fixed in pose mode

[remote obsidian]

its still doing the same

[marble harbor]

Is there a good way to immobilize a bone? The big silver part is rigged to the upper arm and attached at the shoulder bone. The shoulder moves freely, taking the upper arm with it (disconnecting it from the round black part, as pictured).
Can I specifically stop the shoulder bones from moving so that everything stays connected? The SDK won't allow you to remove the shoulders from the rig mapping.

[fading verge]

In unity, play with rotation constraint, assuming you want it to rotate. else parent constraint.
wont be quest compatible. have to weight paint it to the bone you want it to move. so if you want the upper arm to move it, remove the weight pain from the shoulder and apply to upp arm

[marble harbor]

Already got it rigged that way unfortunately, nothing weighted to the shoulders

[abstract ember]

Made another info sheet thing for my problem that I still have. I had a job interview and errands to run today, but I went back to it a little while ago, I tried a bunch of things with the armature/bones/parenting and even messed with the weight painting a bit, but it still won't move quite right. Maybe something on here will hint at my problem to more experienced eyes. Let me know if there's any other pics that could be helpful in troubleshooting and I'll gladly share them!

[abstract ember]

Okay quick update, I moved the parent(?) bone to a more fixed position outside and above the tie mesh and added a new bone to take its place. It moves much less wonky now, and i'm thinking it's functional now if I just add some limitations to how much the bones can bend?

[rare comet]

How do I stop this it from poking out like this when I am weight painting?
I've tried to delete the blendshape but that doesn't work
Every time I try to subtract it from the chest bone, than it goes to the spine bone
The same with the spine bone

[kind mortar]

you need to smooth your weight paint a bit more

[rare nest]

If you're able/willing to, send me a the .blend file in a dm and I'll fix it for you and send it back (for free, don't worry lmao)

I like weight painting and it'd take me maybe 5 minutes to fix

[abstract ember]

I just recently saw this, thank you so much I would really appreciate it! I'd love if you could explain what all you do to fix it as well so I can learn from it 🙂

[rare nest]

Yeah of course!

[broken trout]

I have been trying to weight paint the 2 pants for the better part of the day and no progress has been achieved in making the lower section look good while sitting

Are some meshes just not detailed enough to accurately model complex movements or am I just plain ol' bad

[grand hull]

I think mixing the weight from both left and right legs should work

example

if all else fail, then mixamo and combine the hip parts, lastly clean up from there

[broken trout]

Gave it another go with more overlap, I am so glad to not have to deal with weight painting anymore

Thanks for the example, it helped a lot

[delicate kelp]

can someone help me rig

[quaint cosmos]

That's what we're here for but we need more to go on than that.

[delicate kelp]

wdym

[kind ore]

rigging is a lot

so we can help yes

but we're not going to do it for you

[crimson latch]

So, lets say my reference is leaning forward slightly

If I still have the spine accurate to the body (spine leaning forward for example), will VRChat compensate and make the character upright?

[gilded ermine]

Can anyone help me with a fallback

[quaint cosmos]

That's what this channel is for but you'll need to specify the sort of help you need

[gilded ermine]

So I downloaded this premade fallback of a jokey show my avatar IDIOT but it has no like avatar. It has the body and things but no avatar so I can upload it.

[quaint cosmos]

I think that blue guy means it has a rig, do you mean it has no avatar descriptor? You can add one of those by just adding a new component and then searching for avatar. Then, you just need to put the view position to the right height and that should be enough for a basic setup.

[gilded ermine]

I've never done that I have no clue what I'm doing

[quaint cosmos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTlZXDJueks&list=PLt8qiEFqNHFkPqpKLnVRx-G78mGvjPbFt

[gilded ermine]

I still dont know what to do

[quaint cosmos]

And you watched all the videos? Where specifically are you lost?

[gilded ermine]

Yeah I was able to add a descriptor thingy but it's the trying to upload it. Its all rigged but it says I'm missing this and when I go look its already rigged so I don't get it

[quaint cosmos]

If you're getting errors, post the error so we can know what's going wrong.

[quaint cosmos]

If you open the avatar in the project tab at the bottom and then go to the inspector on the right, under rig, you can go into rig configuration. Can you go into there and see if it has the bones it's looking for and if they're assigned properly?

The specific process of getting to the configuration window can be found about 30 seconds into this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzMuZZ8G3-A

[quaint cosmos]

Can I see the head and the feet? The head configuration is under head towards the bottom on the left side of the green image

[gilded ermine]

It looks right

[quaint cosmos]

So the foot bone is assigned properly in the foot slot and the head bone is in the head slot and you've applied that?

[quaint cosmos]

Hmm, that looks right to me and it's not complaining about hierarchy issues. I'm kind of stumped, it all looks good as far as I can tell but the builder is saying it isn't.

[gilded ermine]

I think I found why? I looked at the scene thing and it has the model and that box thing but not the rig but I know the model has the rig attached ive checked twice is that normal??

The box thing is called fallbackbasic and the rig is just fallback

[quaint cosmos]

Yeah, that's not right, the rig should have a dropdown arrow where you can see the hierarchy but this doesn't. And you haven't made any edits to it other than dragging it into your scene?

[gilded ermine]

I dragged it on and added the descriptor thingy and made sure it was in the middle. I couldn't do anything else

[quaint cosmos]

Made sure what was in the middle? The avatar descriptor? Can I see the inspector of the object with the avatar descriptor on it?

Or do you mean the model?

It's weird because the rig configuration recognizes a rig but it doesn't seem like the object in your scene has one.

[gilded ermine]

I fell asleep and im still tired ill show you in a lil bit

[reef coral]

how do i fix the weight painting on the shoulder so the weird bend on top of it doesn't happen?

[grand hull]

you might have to check and reduce the influence from your chest or upper chest bone

[reef coral]

hmmm

i checked how it looked on a different avatar that has proper weight painting and it seemed the same

sec

i'll lower it a bit

oh yeah that helped

thank

[robust mantle]

Hello do anyone use Maya for rigging ? if so can you tell me what joint orientation and rotate order should be set for vrchat avatars ?

[gilded ermine]

@quaint cosmos good morning! So I rember the box that drops down has the descriptor on it. The model and the other box doesn't. I also have no clue what the box is either I don't think it even has anything it's just a invisible box I can move and the only components is transform

[modern crystal]

Should I auto rig before doing avater dyamnics or do the opposite?

[quaint cosmos]

Pretty sure avatar dynamics are dependent on having a rig. At least physbones are, maybe there are other things that can work without them.

[robust mantle]

I figured it out for anyone else in the future its : x forward and y as bend axis

[vague crane]

Does anyone know how I can make the claws on this crab avatar open and close this far when I grip.

[neat leaf]

rig a circle

mirror it

apply armature to one half to mirror the motions to the other side

save the armature deformation as a shape key

and clean it up after

[vague crane]

sorry im new to making avatars. is there a tutorial or visual i could use?

[crimson latch]

The Rainhet Chaneru tutorial says to make a Blink_L and a Blink_R, but AFAIK the unity component only has a single blink shape key. Did there used to be separate blinks?

[quaint cosmos]

I think so but yeah, just the one now.

[brazen island]

@crimson latch you still probly want to wink

and make one out of two wsy easier than separate both eyes to left/right

[fading verge]

how do i rig an avatar that is already made by someone and was imported to vrchat, yet you have the model of it since you bought it

like do i do it via blender?

or unity

cuz im tryna convert it to a FBT compatible avatar

like 11 point tracking compatible so if i ever upgrade its already ready

[brazen island]

@fading verge any humanoid avatar is already fbt compatible and how well it works depends on bones placement and proportions

any fixes to those are to be done in blender

[fading verge]

ik but not all are correct

the one im using doesnt have foot bones so when im moving my feet trackers it just moves the entire leg

so ima fix its rig

[modern crystal]

Does anyone here have a humanoid rigging for VRChat and how to place it this model without it looking horrible when it moves?

[quaint cosmos]

Does it even have edgeloops for the elbows and knees? No amount of rigging will make it move well if it doesn't have the geometry to move properly.

[modern crystal]

well how do I add edge loops on them?

[quaint cosmos]

Edge loops are one of the tools on the palette on the left when you're in edit mode. Basically, your mesh can only deform where it has edges that allow it to do so, so you generally want to have more dense geometry in those areas and be mindful of the flow of those edges so things deform cleanly. You might have something usable with a couple edgeloops but if you're serious about making characters, you're going to need to develop a stronger understanding of topology https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3GeP3YLZn5irhqsD6_Srf-CeimYPonaK

[visual arch]

i think this is a rigging problem, anyone know why my test avatar is freaking out like this? here's my rig in blender for ref

[brazen island]

@visual arch i cant see shoulders bones

[visual arch]

they're there but small since i need them to be small

[shut copper]

I basically have no knowledge in anything with 3D rendering and I commissioned a thing for VRChat but it's not rigged help

I'm at work rn and I can post the files later

It's also made like a fucking shortstack and is super chubby and I don't want it like that but I don't know how to edit that either

[warm shore]

If you have the time still I can take a look at it

[shut copper]

I've gotten a lot of messages and I can't afford to pay anyone for this, I'm tight on money. Is that alright?

[warm shore]

You already paid for it, I'd just rig it and add adjustments, no need for payment lol

[shut copper]

Alright awesome lol

[warm shore]

Just send the files in pm whenever and I'll send back a working unity package so you can put it on your account without hassle, do you know how to upload avatars to your account?

[shut copper]

No 💀

I have no technical knowledge besides inputting minecraft commands

[warm shore]

I can help with that too no worries

[real gate]

so im trying to make a quadruped rig with CATS, and i adjusted a premade rig in blender accordingly with what i need, but i have a few questions...

• would i need bones in the feelers/tendrils in order to flow with the avatar, similar to how tails/other accessories flow on other avatars in comparison? for context, there were bones in the original rig, but bringing that old rig into unity ended up breaking it

• any ideas on what the attached error message means? occured after fixing the model/rig with CATS

• the third image is the after effect of fixing my rig with CATS, compared to the first image (beforehand). will it affect anything in unity?

this is my first time doing rigging for a vrc avatar, so any guidance will be greatly appreciated

[fervent hornet]

You shouldn't be using CATs for this type of model, it's not designed for things that stray from basic humanoids.

Also not sure by how you want the legs to "flow" with the avatar. Do you want them to drag behind you like a tail or do you want them to walk under you like legs?

[brazen island]

@fervent hornet final ik is whitelisted component so should be possible

[fervent hornet]

Most of my avatars are spiders that walk for me, it's less a question on what is possible and more a question of what they want to do

[real gate]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-scarlet-and-violet-koraidon-motorcycle-walk-animation-gif-26378858

basically this

and noted about cats

[fervent hornet]

Having it run like that would require manual animations in your locomotion animator instead of the base ones. Though you can use FIK to automate walking. https://youtu.be/GVEI36F-bj8

Keep in mind you can get the FIK Stub so that you don't need to buy FIK

[real gate]

so would having the base animations just make it run on its hind legs then?

[fervent hornet]

Base animations would make it run on whatever legs you told vrc were humanoid, you could then use rotatation constraints to make the other pair follow

[real gate]

gotcha...ill use FIK since it seems easier to do that way lol

[real gate]

im about 3 mins in to your tutorial (https://youtu.be/GVEI36F-bj8?t=204), and im confused if i want a Single Point, or a Multiple Point thing for my avatar

on top of that, getting this error when i checked console...hasnt affected anything, video said to check (4:57)

@fervent hornetsorry for the multiple pings, but i just tried fixing the constraint target error with the multiple points thing, and got this new error....retried with single point, no new errors from i can tell, but no idea if it worked

[fervent hornet]

You want single point, which should be your humanoid hips (constraint target). If you have the stub the only way to test it is to upload to vrc (if there are no errors)

[real gate]

ah, gotcha. thanks

[real gate]

oh great...not sure if i was supposed to do this or not, but i tried changing the rig to humanoid and it couldnt find my head bone

and no, it didnt work

[fervent hornet]

Make sure you configure the humanoid properly before upload, unity auto construction isnt very good

[real gate]

this is what its currently spitting out (just mapped chest and upper chest)

[fervent hornet]

Hips is set as your armature, you need to redo most of the setup

[real gate]

in blender?

[fervent hornet]

In unity, just because its green doesnt mean its right

[real gate]

this is what its showing me, and it isnt allowing me to reparent stuff

@fervent hornet got the parenting sorted out, but it keeps on reverting for some reason

[fervent hornet]

Not sure why it's reverting, maybe some console error? Make sure there is no red on all screens (body, head, right hand, left hand)

[real gate]

no red on all screens, no errors in console

[real gate]

would it be best to send you the files or something?

[scarlet patrol]

So my model is doing this weird thing where the whole torso and upper half is moving to whatever angle my hip tracker is at. I currently have it head locked and changing it doesn't help. In half-body, when I walk the hands just cycle and jiggle around. Seems the ik for the hand and head positions is being wack. I've done a bit of work on it in blender but pose mode seems fine. I think the rigging in unity is messed up. Here's a video for reference where I am moving around my hip tracker.

[fervent hornet]

I'm not available to work on your model for you. Im unaware of anything that would revert humanoid configuration

[real gate]

No worries, I’ve closed out for now anyways

[robust mantle]

its the orientation of your joints they do what is called a gimbal flip

[visual arch]

oh, thats good to know but how do you fix it though ? do I roll them to 0 or do something esle in blender edit mode?

[robust mantle]

i do not use blender, i use another 3D package but maybe there is a similar tool in blender, you want something called orient bones or joints and the goal is to have most of your skeleton orientation to the same value.

i will give you an exemple screenshot

Here is my avi in Autodesk Maya as you can see the X axis of every joint is pointing towards the next joint, i think the flipping on your avi is caused by faulty orientation thus the IK system tries to adjust himself with the "offset" caused by the faulty orientation this results in a flipping of the geometry.

If you can see the orientation axis of every bone\joint in blender you could re-orient them to be similar to the screenshot i find that X towards next bone and Y for main rotation works very well in unity

Rotation values should be at 0 degree as well because if they exceed 360 the IK system may not perform like intended

[visual arch]

oh thank you! ill look into this and try to fix it! thank you very much ^^

[robust mantle]

i found this link regarding Blender and orientation https://blenderartists.org/t/blender-joint-orient/662837

if you are still having issues feel free to DM me I can orient your bones in Maya in like 2 clicks and send it back

[scarlet patrol]

found out it was due to a physbone component on the chest

[stark shuttle]

How would I rig a armature to hair in blender? There doesn't seem to be a automatic weights option?

[kind mortar]

you could just paint it manually if you need to

[stark shuttle]

I saw a video about that but I also dont know how to weight paint hair haha

Kinda newish to avi stuff on blender

[stark shuttle]

If you know of a tutorial on youtube other then this https://youtu.be/gTdRGZA4TXA

That would be amazing

[kind mortar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fICQmBEt4Y&ab_channel=RoyalSkies this one is good too

[stark shuttle]

Thanks watching now

[stark shuttle]

Okay new issue, I got automatic scale thing to work, but it connects the whole body and cloths to the hair?

Any way to just select the hair only?

[mossy locust]

Im not sure if anyone can help with this but Im having an issue where the weight paint that I drew on the fingers of my model just doesnt move the mesh, this issue is only happening with this finger and only on this hand, the other hand works fine

[humble beacon]

Most likely misspelled the vertex group name. Happens to me all the time. Double check it

[mossy locust]

idk if I understood it correctly but my vertex group automatically has the same name as the bone and I just checked if the correct verts are selected and it looks fine for example the top of the finger is connected to the ring_finger2 which is the last bone of the fingers

[quaint cosmos]

I'd go through the vertex groups and see if that area is weighted to any other bone in addition to the bone it's suppose to be weighted to

[mossy locust]

to me it looks fine

[astral quest]

could be possibly painsted to another bone aswell, id check all the bones in the hand to make sure its not painted to anything else

[mossy locust]

ohhh I accidentally painted a tiny bit on it while doing the spine... thank you so much lol

[faint cypress]

Question, if i want to have an avatar without legs how would i set it up?

The idea is to have the head/body working as the feet and the tail training behind

[bold field]

What do you mean head and body working as the feet?

[faint cypress]

I don't know how to really put it into words but

Not having feet is the main thing i'm trying to figurate out

[bold field]

Okay. You should still add the bones for the legs/feet, but dont weight paint any of the body to it

So it doesnt actually move the model, but you’ll still have a humanoid rig (which is needed for vrchat)

[faint cypress]

Got it

I assume i can just add two bones where i want it to stand and name them like feet and legs?

Something i need help is with this

Whenever i try to rotate the bone in the z or x axis the head becomes all screwed up

How can i fix this?

[quaint cosmos]

Weight painting. Are you familiar with that?

[faint cypress]

I am weight painting yeah

[quaint cosmos]

Seems like you just have a bit of a harsh transition in your head weight and should probably blur it towards the torso

[faint cypress]

Got it

[faint cypress]

This is how i have the head weight set up

But it does this when i try to rotate it

How can i fix this?

[brazen island]

@faint cypress probably weighted to something else too

[strong saffron]

I Have An Issues Regarding The Viewpoint On My Model, It's Set In The Middle Of The Head But VRC Puts It In The Shoulder And For Some Reason No Matter How Much I Move It, It Will Not Move

[quaint cosmos]

You're changing the values in the view position fields and it's not changing in Unity or not changing in VRChat or both?

[strong saffron]

It's Changing In Unity But Not VRC

[quaint cosmos]

Hmmm, okay, can't say I've seen that behavior before so I'm not sure what to recommend. Assuming it isn't too much trouble to set it up again, you can always take it from the top and give it a new avatar descriptor, that could resolve the problem but I've never encountered this so I can't say.

[strong saffron]

I Unfortunately Have Several Times, And Even Created A Whole New Project For It. This Is A Project I Gave Up On For This Particular Problem And I Can't Seem To Find Any Solution. I've Tried Seeing If It Was An Issue With The Model, I've Rotated It And Tinkered With It Every Which Way In Blender, Applied All My Transforms And Nothing I Do Seems To Work.

I've Seen It Mentioned In Here Before, But Could Be Something To Do With The T-Pose? It Has And Odd Skeleton To It Because It's Digitigrade, But As Far As I'm Aware I Have That Set Up Properly

[quaint cosmos]

I couldn't say. I could see it perhaps having a weird interaction with the view position where it ended up being offset from where you expected it to be but I don't see how the rig could cause it to have no influence at all.

[strong saffron]

Mrm, Let Me Test It Again To See

No Such Luck

Might It Have Something To Do With The Rotation When Exported From Blender?

[quaint cosmos]

Kind of the same situation, I'd think. Could it cause the view position to be wrong? Sure, maybe, but if you're putting the view position 20m in the air and nothing is changing, I don't think that's a rotation issue. I have to assume it's on the right object or else it wouldn't let you publish at all. It is staying where you put it in Unity, yeah? The values aren't reverting on publish or anything like that?

[strong saffron]

Mrm, I Went Back And Edited It To An Extreme (Put The Viewpoint Up To Like 50 Y) And It Did Update, Just Not To The Scale I Moved It

[quaint cosmos]

What sort of values are we talking in the view position? I guess if it allows you to keep pushing the view position farther, it's a solution, if a cumbersome one to dial in.

[strong saffron]

Wdym By What Sort Of Values?

[quaint cosmos]

What are the x, y, and z values in the view position?

[strong saffron]

-.314,2.43,0 But That's With Me Trying To Narrow Down The Sweet Spot

[quaint cosmos]

2.43 isn't really that extreme. It's big, a bit under 8 ft but not not that extreme. but I can see it being annoying to work with if it's significantly above your avatar, it just seems reasonable to work with if necessary so long as it's working in VRChat.

[strong saffron]

Yeah, I Originally Moved It Up To About 45, But That Was A Good Distance Above Where It Was, So I Guess Now I Just Have To Narrow Down Where It Thinks It Is

[quaint cosmos]

Is the avatar itself very big? Can you scale up a cube to get a size in meters?

[strong saffron]

I Have No Idea How To Do That

[quaint cosmos]

In the hierarchy on the left, you can press the + to create a cube, then change the Y value until it's the size of your character, how much do you have to scale it to equal your character height?

The Y value in scale, of course.

[strong saffron]

About 2.4

[quaint cosmos]

Okay, well then I'm not sure what's going on with the display but it seems the numerical value of the view position is about where it should be relative to your model. Is your model intended to be 8 ft/2.4m tall?

If you scale the cube to right where the eyeline is, that should be the value you use for the view position.

[strong saffron]

In Messing With It More, It Appears VRC Is Seeing It At A Different Rotation And Scale Than Unity Is? At Least In Terms Of The Viewport Because If I Move It Along One Axis It Changes It To A Different Axis In VRC And Moves At A Much Lower Scale

Or Higher Scale? It Moves Less In VRC Than It Does In Unity, Even Though I've Applied All Transforms Multiple Times

[quaint cosmos]

I'm not sure on that but it seems like those settings you were using were getting close to the correct values which is the correct values for your avatar, unless I'm mistaken. The x value (the first one) should generally be 0 since that is the left to right axis and most avatars want their view in the center of their face but if a Y value of 2.43 is about right for where you would expect your view to be but a bit too high, that lines up with what I would expect from the height of your avatar. It seems like you might be overcomplicating things but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

[strong saffron]

Well I've Set It In The Center Of The Head, Exactly Where I Want It, And When I Do, It Appears Instead Much Lower And To The Left In VRC

[quaint cosmos]

It appears to the left when you set the X value to 0?

It seems like we might need to work with the values and not the position of the ball for whatever reason but that doesn't complicate things too much.

[strong saffron]

Mm, Not The X, No, But Putting In Values Manually Instead Of Using The Gizmo Seems To Help

[quaint cosmos]

Try values of 0,Y,.15 Y being the Y value at the top of a cube that starts at the heels and goes to the eyeline

You might need to move the Z value a bit farther out for an avatar that large but that's a good starting point. Having that at 0 will have it pretty far inside the head when I usually like to be right on the face between the eyes.

At least if the view position gizmo was working properly.

[strong saffron]

Mrm, Putting In The Numbers Directly Is Fixing The Scale Issue, But It's Still Moving In The Wrong Direction, Which I Guess I Can Just Suck It Up And Figure Out The Sweet Spot For It

[quaint cosmos]

I'm still not sure what you mean by moving in the wrong direction. Is the view not centered with 0 in the x value? Seems like that would have to do with the object not being centered at the origin.

[strong saffron]

As In, Instead Of When I Adjust The X Axis It Moving Along The X Axis, In VR It Moves Along The Z And Vice Versa

It Looks Right In Unity But Wrong In VRC

[quaint cosmos]

So when you change the X value, it moves the view position closer or farther from the face in VRC?

[strong saffron]

If I Change The X Value It Moves It Forwards/Backwards In Unity But Left/Right In VRC

[quaint cosmos]

Okay, then don't pay attention to what it does in Unity, we've established that's unreliable in this case. If your object is centered at the origin, use a value of 0 for X and start with a value of .15 for Z, you can try moving that .05 up or down if it doesn't feel right.

The X value should move it left or right so the values I gave you for the X,Y, and Z should generally put you in the right spot

[strong saffron]

Well It's Moreso That I Just Need To Set The X What I Want The Z And Vice Versa

The Y At Least Seems To Behave As Long As I Add The Values In Directly

[quaint cosmos]

No, you need to set the X to what you want the X to be because that's the axis that's actually being influenced and unless your model is offset from the origin on the X axis (which it shouldn't be unless you exported it that way from Blender) that value should be 0.

[strong saffron]

And What I'm Telling You Is Adjusting The X In Unity Is Adjusting The Z In VRC

So Yes I Need To Set The X As The Z And Vice Versa

[quaint cosmos]

But you just said adjusting the first value (the x) moves it left and right in VRC. That's what it should do.

[strong saffron]

No, I Said It Moves Forwards/Backwards

But In VRC It Moves Differently

[quaint cosmos]

^

[strong saffron]

So I Need To Swap The Values

[quaint cosmos]

"If I change the X value, it moves left/right in VRC"

Is that true or not?

[strong saffron]

No, Right, That's The Other Way Around

It's Moving Correctly In Unity But Not VRC

I'm Stupid Don't Mind Me

[quaint cosmos]

Okay, fine, then. Try values of .15, Y, 0

[strong saffron]

Well I Have It Working Now

[quaint cosmos]

Okay, cool. Glad it worked out.

[strong saffron]

It Moves The Way I Want If I Directly Put In The Values And Swap The X And Z

[golden sandal]

hey so when i made a mesh i made it not in a t pose but my imported armature is in a t-pose how to i fix that ade make it so that when i move a bone it moves the mesh i have no clue the first thing about rigging

for quest ofc

[quaint cosmos]

I'd just move the bones into place using edit mode before parenting the mesh to the rig

[golden sandal]

i alr pressed to parent it how do i unparent it

[quaint cosmos]

Alt + P

You might also want to remove the armature modifier on the mesh

[golden sandal]

thank you so much ill try it shen i get back on

[quaint cosmos]

I think the last version of Blender that properly supports CATS is 2.9

[brazen island]

@fading verge you need to use N letter (ooh scary) in main window to bring out the extras panel where you can see the cats and some other tools

@quaint cosmos panel itself works anywhere, import/export/fix model - not

@fading verge and yes, if youe blender is too new get a dev build of cats, probly from github and if not they have discord with dl links

[golden sandal]

whats going on here i use a new mat and put this in normal map and boom blue

i got it

[crimson latch]

His feet continue to lift off the ground for some reason

I notice that when I crouch his feet hit the ground normally

But why is this an issue?

Here's his rig for reference

[quaint cosmos]

Those feet bones are kind of awkward, very steep angle there when they should generally be close to flat. First thing that comes to mind.

[crimson latch]

So does the very end go to the tip of the toes?

[quaint cosmos]

I think it should start where the foot and leg bone connect roughly and go to about where the toes start but I think the main thing is the angle, I'm not really sure how far it should be brought out ideally.

[crimson latch]

Perhaps like this?

[quaint cosmos]

That's certainly better. It could perhaps be a bit more flat but it should be an improvement.

[crimson latch]

Does view position have any affect on the rig?

[quaint cosmos]

It can cause the model to get up on its toes if it's too high or gent bent knees if it's too low, yeah.

[crimson latch]

I set the view point to his neck and the feet are still on his tip toes

No change when I set it high up either (I also set it further back into the body)

I turned off “enforce T pose” and it broke even worse

Aaaaaa I don’t get it

What is wrong here??

What is causing his heels to lift up when standing still??

[robust nacelle]

Does anyone have any tips or anything they can teach or tell me about making or putting new clothes on an already made avatar in blender to edit basically cause I want to make a personal edit of this model and want to model this type of shirt. using that as a reference.

[stark shuttle]

hey everyone just wondering if there is a way to export an armature from unity into blender? Cause when I export it as an FBX it doesn't seem to port all of it?

[fading verge]

can some one help me this is my first ttime attempting to rig somthing

[fading verge]

Blender's fbx import is bad, you need BetterFBX addon.

[crimson latch]

Does the CATS "Export" button just trigger the standard Blender FBX import with no changes or does it do something else?

[fading verge]

cats export button has been buggy

[fading verge]

I know it has more settings when exporting/importing. don't know the exact difference, and never messed with those settings

[crimson latch]

It always seems to reverse my avatar regardless of “forward” direction setting

It’s made moot by Enforce T Pose, but still weird

[stark shuttle]

Where is that found?

Only thing I can find is a website called Blendermarket

[soft elk]

can i just delete the finger bones if i dont want a model to have fingers?

[fading verge]

It costs money, yeah. maybe instead try to play with Cats FBX import settings, might work too

[quaint cosmos]

I think so? Some bones are required for humanoid but I don't think fingers are one of them. You could also add fingers and just not weight them to anything.

[soft elk]

ty!

[quaint cosmos]

Is there an avatar descriptor on your avatar?

Ah, well then I dunno, never used gogoloco

[bleak lantern]

it may have something to do with you editing a prefab instead of being in a scene

[stark musk]

This is a VRChat thing & has nothing to do with your avatar. If you are in half tracked VR & look down, you will see this happen. Looking up brings your lower half back into position.

Mine does the same thing, though moving the bones closer to the ground may fix it slightly.

[crimson latch]

Actually I fixed it by unbinding the toe bones

You can also prevent the look-down-causes-float by moving the view back towards the spine/into the head

[stark musk]

Oh, interesting.

[stark musk]

I don't understand this

[crimson latch]

The view position

Push it into the head

[stark musk]

But what does "look down causes float" mean lol

[crimson latch]

Ohh, when you look towards your feet, it lifts the rest of your body upwards

[devout epoch]

Anyone ever successfully used Cascadeur to make an animation for a VRC avatar?

[quaint cosmos]

Never used it but it looks like it can export to FBX so it should function like any other animation once exported

[devout epoch]

That's the thing, getting it to work with my avatar to make the animation is the issue. It has a really specific rigging system and I've tried setting it up, but it constantly gives me errors.

[quaint cosmos]

You might want to look into retargeting so you can apply the animation to your own rig rather than having to use the rig exported from the program.

[devout epoch]

Oh interesting! I'll look into that, Thank you!

[cold cliff]

I'm working on an avatar built to match my real life proportions, but when I touch my shoulders in the avatar, my hand is like six inches above my avatar's shoulder.

The weird thing is: this is the second avatar I've made this way, and it worked fine in the first one, and I can't identify any differences between that one and this new one that could account for this.

maybe related: when I extend my arms out to the side, the avatar reaches flat-elbows at the same moment that I do; but when I extend my arms FORWARDS, it reaches flat-elbows BEFORE I do, and when I extend my arms DOWNWARD, it NEVER reaches flat-elbows. on my previous avatar, it always reaches flat elbows at the same time I do.

but the bone lengths are VERY similar between the two avatars....

[humble beacon]

@cold cliff try moving the avatar pov point

I mean the little grey gimmble that you usually place between your eyes

[cold cliff]

that's also placed in basically the same place between the two avatars though....

what direction should I try moving it?

the pov point is definitely in the right place vertically; I tried moving it back from "between my eyes" to "center of my head", and it didn't help the shoulder thing

it might have helped the elbow thing a little when reaching forwards, but not with my arms by my sides

[humble beacon]

Try moving it up and down. Not between you eyes, but on your forehead

[cold cliff]

then it would feel like everyone's looking at my nose when they try to look me in the eye

I got this working correctly with my old avatar so I know it should be possible without having to do that

[warm citrus]

Having an odd issue with my first custom avatar. The hips seem to have a mind of their own. I kept them above the legs like the documentation said as seen here: https://i.imgur.com/HtaevZe.png

But they seem to float off to the side in neutral pose: https://i.imgur.com/Dh60Eid.png

When walking, they fly around wildly from side to side although I couldn't get a good screenshot, but here's what happens in the dance animation, they seem to float in space and oscillate side to side: https://i.imgur.com/T70awNj.png https://i.imgur.com/JiK66eW.png

Edit: Never mind, I made a careless mistake and the hip bones were parented to LeftFoot_End. Fixed that, re-weighted, works now. Oops. https://i.imgur.com/Jv1OKv4.png

[cold cliff]

I'm realising it might just be because the scale is off by like 10% on the new avatar and I hadn't noticed....

[finite silo]

what do i change with my avatar's armature to avoid this thing with the neck scrunching up?
i use head lock so my eyes are accurate
but...
as you can see in the video, my neck tilts backwards

[surreal anvil]

why are the legs getting offset between configuring the rig and in normal unity view? legs look perfectly fine when im configuring the rig but once i leave rig config the legs rotate themselves outwards a bit, clipping through the clothing. there's no transforms affecting the legs, all there is is the avatar descriptor and some phys bones i added for testing

this is the first time ive had this happen so im pretty confused about it

[pale pumice]

what's bad about it?

[fading verge]

https://www.blendermarket.com/products/better-fbx-importer--exporter
they describe it pretty well

Blender wasn't made to handle Unity's stuff, it's its own thing. ton of things aren't transferrable, like bone constraints/shaders/lights in Blender to Unity, etc.

[pale pumice]

oh huh, I was going to say "most of that looks irrelevant for Unity" but constraints would be pretty cool

hmm the features listed don't seem relevant or seem to be already supported, and it doesn't list constraints other than IK

[fading verge]

I don't know how to fix most blender shader stuff, so I port it to Unity then fix it there.
then use fbxexporter in Unity to make a new fbx, that contains all the edits.
that then isn't compatible with going back to blender, and betterfbx fixes that

[quaint cosmos]

What's going on there? My avatars export just fine between Blender and Unity, at worst they're posed weird so I just zero out the pose but these are all kinds of exploded. Maybe it's just because I don't use too much fancy stuff like constraints.

[fading verge]

I just explained it. say you got an fbx. you add it to the scene, it's a prefab. you make edits, you want it back to an fbx to take it to blender. you use Unity's FBXexport to export the prefab to an fbx. that then doesn't go back into Blender very well. there's where BetterFBX comes in

[brazen island]

@fading verge why would you do edits in unity

[fading verge]

because I don't understand blender well enough to make extensive edits there

[brazen island]

i see, skill issue

[fading verge]

why would I devote an obsence amount of time to learning blender when I can use shortcuts?

[brazen island]

knowing what you can and cannot do in unity it's like 10min blender guide

[quaint cosmos]

Yeah but it usually does go back just fine, these must be cases where they're doing something exotic causing it to explode like that. I take my already published avatars all the time and bring them back into Blender to make small edits to the model or the weight painting and they transfer just fine. Not saying that there are never issues, they just must not happen with the standard no-frills avatar building process I use.

[fading verge]

This here is the avatar example included in the sdk.

it also does not survive Unity's FBXExporter, to be exported to an FBX then imported to unity.

right is blender native fbx, left is blender betterfbx addon

you can try it yourself. if you can find a way to make blender's native fbx work here, that'd be amazing

most of the fbx that doesn't go through, this process are probably fine

but at times some ask how to do it, and I just offer what works for me

[quaint cosmos]

Looks like a physbones avatar, yeah? That might break it, I don't generally use physbones. I'm not saying it's not worth the purchase, I might pick it up myself to avoid issues in the future, that's just not what happens with my avatars and if they do import weird, it's usually just a matter of resetting the transforms in pose mode which takes 5 seconds. Looks like that might be what's going on here but I can't say for sure without doing it myself.

[fading verge]

resetting the transforms... you think that's a problem in the third avi from the left here?

And I can test removing the physbones, if that's the problem, it'd be...a funny revelation
(except there are no physbones on the example)

[rotund kraken]

usually cats fix is for mmd models so that issue can be solved by just not using that button

[brazen island]

why to export when you can just open model that is bound to be somewhere in assets

[quaint cosmos]

No, I don't think that's the issue with that avatar but that's also been "fixed" with CATS which doesn't always work great

Yeah, you only need the exporter when the FBX is ASCII. That usually works alright but I don't often find myself needing to do that for avatars.

[fading verge]

did say, what if I made changes in the scene? longer hair, shorter arms, etc... it won't be shoved back into the fbx, as for as I know

fbxeporter, prefab to fbx, is that

[quaint cosmos]

If I make a bunch of changes to the FBX, I just import it as a new FBX and then it's pretty quick to set up the visemes and stuff but again, that's not making all of the edits some people make to these avatars so I can see the value in streamlining it if it means not reverting a bunch of gestures and animations.

[fading verge]

So if I edit this thing, add other things. change materials, bunch of things.

I can just...reimport it as an fbx back into unity and use it instead? even to blender

it stops being a prefab in the scene? there's an option for that?

afaik, that's fbx exporter, to make a prefab into an fbx. but if there's another way?

[rotund kraken]

if you don't unpack it you can just navigate directly to it through blender while you're exporting and itll replace it automatically

your descriptor will stay the same

[brazen island]

@fading verge no you dont

but once again, noone is doing your pipeline, everyone's edit models in blender and replace fbx in unity's assets leaving them as unpacked and so very consistent prefab

[fading verge]

most good edits need an unpack, like to rearrange gameobject hierarchy, Riley
And that's what I'm saying, Least. FBXExporter and BetterFBX is a combo that works, Least
ance for your reference, there's several that often ask...how to import something from Unity to Blender. Was one here, was one in general a bit ago. Some days ago too. I only asked them if they were working with a prefab, if yes...then told them that they could use this method

[brazen island]

you dont need to rearange hierarchy of rigged fbx. you can easily slap props on top of it, you can reuse mesh renderer if prop (built in main fbx) in wrong place/needs parenting

[fading verge]

Have to unpack? I'm just following the documentation, if there's another way?

[quaint cosmos]

Seems like that would be pretty easy to change in the bone relations in Blender

[brazen island]

just ignore it since it works just fine for me on many different rigs? or goto blender and make it first one

with or without twistbones

[fading verge]

if you want to go to blender, that is, sure

I'd just fix it faster in Unity

Maybe I should have asked, specifically for a unity solution to avoid unpacking. but i assume that repacking it afterward is fine

[brazen island]

well, i guess technically you cannot break import for new version of fbx by doing so, if you never make one

[pale pumice]

oh wow yeah, I don't know why I'd ever go from Unity back to Blender, how fascinating.

I also never unpack my FBXes.

I also don' t use cats.

[robust crescent]

you can just sort bone order in unity without unpacking - its 2 clicks https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/silenttools

[fading verge]

Unity thinks the face of my avatar is on the opposite side. I tried rotating the avatar but now I get issues with my hip bones (worked perfectly fine before I rotated it in blender).

Should I change these settings?

Force apply t-pose fixes the hip but it rotates my avatar 180

[modern crystal]

Is there a way I can rig this inhumanoid character without the body being non-proportional?

[pale pumice]

You want Apply Scalings to be FBX All, otherwise that's good

You generally want your avatar to be facing -Y when in Blender, and of course at 0,0,0

[fading verge]

I tried it but It still faces the wrong way in VRChat. It's facing -Y in blender and It's at 0,0,0. I'm so done with this.

[pale pumice]

You can rotate and scale the avatar in Unity though, I'm not really clear on what the issue is here, but it looks like you have some leg bones which are horizontal, Unity isn't going to like that.

[fading verge]

it looks like you have some leg bones which are horizontal, Unity isn't going to like that.
It only looks like that in unity. In blender I deleted those bones and then parented the UpperLeg bones to the hip bone.

[pale pumice]

yeah I'm not sure what's wrong then

[fading verge]

I've been trying to fix this for like a week now and I can't find anything online ._.

[pale pumice]

what's the current actual problem?

[fading verge]

It's facing the wrong way in VRChat.

When I turn it the right way the rig gives me issues in unity

[fervent hornet]

What direction is your models face when you look at it from the front in blender (numpad 1)

[fading verge]

It's facing -Y

[fervent hornet]

I can't picture that, can you post an image?

[fervent hornet]

What does the armature look like?

[fervent hornet]

Make sure that you clear the rolls of all your bones and that your armature doesn't have any pre existing rotation

[pale pumice]

ooh bone roll - that could definitely be it

Make sure your objects, armature and mesh, have rotation applied - you can do ctrl-A in object mode and then select from there, likely just "all transforms" to be sure

and the object origins are the world origin

[fading verge]

What do you mean by world origin?

[fervent hornet]

0,0,0 on rotation and scale

[fading verge]

Yeah they do have that. I'm just wondering what you want me to do with the roll value?

[pale pumice]

Set all humanoid bones to roll zero

[fading verge]

It didn't work. I think I'm going to give up.

[pale pumice]

yeah I'm really baffled as to what you're doing here

[analog aurora]

How exactly do I rig something like this?

[quaint cosmos]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390924372782612480/991844903044788355/Digitigrade_tutorial_2.png

[soft elk]

automatic weighting isnt working, ive already tried scaling the mesh, recalculating normals, removing doubles... i was gonna save adding tail bones later because i just wanted to see if it worked without tail bones so thats why these screenshots dont have tail bones, but i even tried automatic weighting with bones for the tail and that didnt work. do i need to add bones for the mane too and thats why it's not working?? i really want automatic weight painting to work lol, dreading having to do it manually

[rotund kraken]

you cant get a clean weight with automatics. its good for a baseline to edit off of imo but if your goal is to make the mane and tail have the wiggles youll need to make bones + weight paint those

if you separate the tail from the body and rig it that way, you could probably get away with automatic weighting then rejoin the armatures together

[soft elk]

yeah i meant having a baseline would be better than having to do the entire thing manually

ohhh ill see if i can do that

[rotund kraken]

theres also a bug where weights dont apply until you restart blender so probably something to keep in mind

[soft elk]

ill have to see if that works later, thank you

[analog aurora]

Thank you good sir/lady

[marble apex]

I'm having an issue with some stuff about my avatar, some people said it could be the rigging and anchor points, I asked them how to get to it, no response

[analog aurora]

What the fuck is this

The face of scp 106

If I replace this face rig with a rigify one will that break the animation file that was included in the files?

[quaint cosmos]

Probably. It might work okay if the bones names are the same but it might look off if the weights are different.

[soft elk]

this worked!! thank you :) i learned a lot in the process

[sinful path]

Can anybody tell me why the Physbone component will not affect the second bone on these earrings? I've tried messing with a few different options but it doesn't want to affect that last bone

[sinful path]

a friend helped me out, it was the endpoint position

[modern crystal]

Is there a way to fix this? It’s happening on the arms and legs
I used autowighting btw

[quaint cosmos]

Do you have enough geometry to allow that bend to happen?

[modern crystal]

well what amount of geometry is enough

[quaint cosmos]

You need to have edges in the right areas to allow the model to deform. Armatures aren't magic, they're just a way of telling the model how to move. If you put a human armature in a box, its still just a box, it can only move according to the vertices it has.

[modern crystal]

Oh ok!
I did that on one of the arms and it functions more!

[quaint cosmos]

You can get more advanced with it, there have been some specific topologies crafted to allow for the most realistic knee and elbow deformations possible with the fewest vertices but a good starting point is to have an edge loop where the model will be bending and 2 edge loops fairly close to that on each side.

[quaint cosmos]

Sure you can scale them in edit mode or blend mode. The size of the ears shouldn't impact the rig at all

Sorry, I meant to say sculpt mode. The scale of the ears still shouldn't impact the rig so long as their placement relative to the bones remains pretty constant. Of course, if you were to move them away from the position of the bones, then the origin of the transforms would be offset from the geometry. You might also consider just scaling down the bones in unity if that's an option.

[quaint cosmos]

For both of those things, you'd want to unparent and remove the armature modifier first or else the bone transforms will effect the mesh so you'd be scaling down the ears and then scaling down the bones which would scale down the ears again but if you separated the mesh from the armature, scaled the ears, scaled the bones to match, then added the armature modifier back that should work

Actually, in edit mode it wouldn't scale so it should be fine either way but I would remove the armature before messing with it just to be safe.

[brazen island]

@copper otter if ears themselves have bones, try going to pose mode for armature and scaling first bone, it may or may not give decent results. if it looks ok, youll need to apply this pose as rest pose after scaling

[rotund kraken]

its using the weight of the other ear since its mirrored

if you're doing something simple as reducing the ear size you can just go into sculpt mode and do them each manually or turn symmetry on

[spring tapir]

anyone loooling for rigging or 3d model dm me commsion on

[fading verge]

hmmm

[spare barn]

I am having just the WORST time weight painting. It's been a stone wall for me for MONTHS.
I dunno if it's due to bugs, or how I set my models up, but they just never seem to work properly.

Is there anybody who'd be willing to help me out? Walk through the process with me and maybe catch where I'm messin' up?

[modern beacon]

Creating my first avatar, what bones do I need?

[rotund kraken]

yay the bot didn't get mad

[solar geyser]

Anyone know why the avatar leans like this (desktop)

[soft elk]

this is the first thing i started on to try to learn blender and uh. im coming back to it now bc ive learned more about rigging and weight painting, but i still dont know how to get past this roadblock with the toon outlines doing.. that. i wanna have the toon outlines for rendering stuff AND have it be part of the avatar, could i accomplish that easier through unity though?? (sorry if thats a dumb question, i havent touched unity much in my learning process)

idk i guess im just asking if theres an easier way to accomplish this

[rotund kraken]

i think poiyomi can do that or you can fake it with a matcap for quest

for blender rendering, this might work? i just found it
https://felineentity.gumroad.com/l/ZmTIT

[grizzled delta]

Anyone know why this is happening? The vertex groups and weight painting is correct, but the arm won't follow the bones correctly and also has this weird squash and stretch sort of

Everything else moves just fine, it's just this

[grizzled delta]

Huh. Turns out they were assigned to vertex groups I never assigned them too, lol

[warped hinge]

I am trying to merge a two armatures together but the butt and boob bones aren’t merging. Everything else is merging but not those two bones. They are named the same and are ALMOST lined up perfectly with one another

[acoustic tendon]

Hello, I have a model that has been set up in blender and as you can see, the weight painting is working when in pose mode in blender.
However, when exporting through CATs blender plugin, it does not work in unity. Any idea as to why?

[broken compass]

Try to export it normally instead of CATS

[acoustic tendon]

I tried to export it through the normal FBX export option without CATS but same issue

[brazen island]

@acoustic tendon make sure you have no modifiers other than armature

[acoustic tendon]

Hmm your onto something, I don't usually need to delete the copy data modifier once I use it, but doing this in Blender causes it to now behave the same as Unity. I wonder why its relying on having that modifier there for this asset but not others

Right, Rookie mistake forgetting to hit apply to the modifier after copying

[proven narwhal]

What are peoples opinion on using Auto Rig Pro for rigging an Avatar in Blender for VRChat, or is there another way people recommend rigging an Avatar from scratch?

[quaint cosmos]

Auto Rig Pro works well since it has a Unity export setup that removes unnecessary bones. No automatic rigging is perfect, you'll still likely need to clean up the fingers and head weights but it's a great start.

[proven narwhal]

Thank you, yeah I have been learning with Mixamo and yeah, thought as much, considering both are with an AI, both would require 'polishing up' I just think that doing it all inside Blender would be nice, thank you for your response

[quaint cosmos]

I've used Mixamo and Auto-Rig and I much prefer Auto-Rig, especially given it has tools like retargeting. Usually for the fingers it's not so much that it doesn't rig the area of the finger it's supposed to, it just also weights adjacent fingers to the bone of the one finger so it's usually just a matter of selecting each finger in edit mode and removing the weights from adjacent fingers. I also use the voxel heatmap skinning add-on but I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes.

[stray harbor]

late but you could try to use 'fill between with joints' (its called something like that) and then dissolve the middle joints

[stray harbor]

I just import from blender to unity via FBX export and i haven't had any issues

[serene bane]

I’m making an avatar with FBT for a client, I matched the avatar I made to a skeleton with realistic proportions as well as asked them to send me a full body traced picture of themselves in T pose. I’m to be honest not sure what I can do to help make it work well, I don’t own FBT myself nor do I have much experience with it (this was known to by commissioner beforehand). Could someone please give me some tips? I’m not sure what I can do on my end, when they can’t tell me what is not proportioned well for them. I’m not sure what the general workflow is when handling FBT, nor do I fully understand what part is up to me to figure out

I informed myself on all relavant information, FBT documentation and watched tutorials, at this point I’m just not sure what the issue is. It’s probably either the legs or arms that are too long/ short, what would be an effective way to figure out where the misalignment lies?

[fervent hornet]

If your client cannot give you information on what is wrong besides "it don't work" there is not much you can do. Maybe they could show you in VRC what they don't like?

[serene bane]

They've now sent me a video, from there on I could tell it was the arms that are too long. They where able to align all other things nicely when ignoring the arms, so that will likely fix it

Thanks for the help ^^

[jolly ledge]

I want to 3d model a character, but I don't know if I'll need to make them individual shapes, or how rigging works?

[brazen island]

@jolly ledge you have armature and mesh has things called vertex groups, via weight painting that adds data to these vertex grouops you telling which vertex reacts to what bone and to what extent. It doesnt matter if its one object or multiple as long as they all have whatever vertex groups they need and an armature modifier that links this exact mesh to follow this exact armature. https://youtu.be/4fICQmBEt4Y

[jolly ledge]

So it can be a singular object?

[brazen island]

ofc, and normally good avatars are one object unless you have toggles like different clothes etc.

[jolly ledge]

I see. Cool-
So, I can only rig them via Blender?

I use Nomad on my tablet, which does not have rigging.

So, I'd have to load the .obj to blender?

[brazen island]

yep. you can try autorigging via mixamo/accurig as a starting point tho if your char is humanoid enough.

[jolly ledge]

I see-
I ponder if I could like, get someone to rig it for me. lol

My computer is like, a potato. It can barely run discord. lol

[brazen island]

mixamo is a site

and blender also not heavy at all if were talking about quest level of details and not making cg movie

if it runs unity youll be fine

[robust crescent]

1 day on vrchat discord first thing they say is an ad with broken english , great job there

[pale pumice]

What's the ideal position (in Blender) for the tail of the lower leg bone in a plantigrade humanoid? I'm assuming 0,0,0, but I've seen lots of rigs where this isn't the case...

[robust mantle]

Depending on the software your using you can rig prety mutch anything,

I would suggest seing with your rigging artist first his preference. If your doing it yourself model in a way you will enjoy working with later.

If you need help to know the tips and tricks of how to properly model for animation ( rigging ) see youtube tutorials or feel free to dm me i will be more than happy to help you

[robust mantle]

Mixamo gives mediocre results if you seek perfection consider getting it done by a pro or doing it yourself. Rigging can be done in various softwares most of them are paid.

[robust mantle]

Hot take, do them yourself its not that hard Mixamo and auto-rig yield crap results 90% of time

[quaint cosmos]

If you depend entirely on the auto-rigging, you're going to get bad results but I think it saves a fair amount of time to adjust the weights on an automatic rig vs manual rigging

[thick haven]

Hey @robust mantle thank you for the offer but someone has already serviced me!

[quaint cosmos]

Auto-Rig (and Mixamo to a lesser extent) tends to do pretty well on most bones, it's just the head, fingers, and sometimes the armpits that tend to need refining.

[robust mantle]

agreed to some extent you can save time by only refining altought i prefer the control a custom skinning can offer

[fringe spade]

Anyone know why my eyes aren't restrained down properly when using the CATS plunging eye tracking tool? It's like the eye traction creation won't make a set limited to the eyeball, it just goes everywhere.

[nocturne whale]

I have an issue where my model hands and my irl hands are anywhere from 2 to 6 inches offset. I am not sure what is wrong. First time making a custom model and I cant find anything on this anywhere. Anyone expirence this before?

showing the offset of my contrillers

[pale pumice]

is that thing even necessary anymore? I didn't think it was...

[floral zealot]

Hello everyone, lets just say I have a lot of custom models and want to start uploading avs and worlds asap asap but

my trust is still low so before I get to all that I want to know what I should avoid. I have read mixamo is not ideal so

do you guys recommend a better standard bone rig

for a humanoid

lets say I have a character with face blend shapes and a mixamo skeleton

is that good to go?

I must admit when it comes to 3D I'm skilled in just about everything except custom bone rigging

nvm on the trust thing i fixed it

[quaint cosmos]

I think Mixamo is fine, you just need to check how the model moves and adjust your weights accordingly. Mixamo will never give you perfect weights out of the box but it can generally be adjusted to work fine and it saves time compared to manual rigging.

[modest kiln]

my rig is not being automatically detected as humanoid by unity even though it meets the requirements. i cant seem to get it to work no matter how hard i try. any thoughts?

[pale pumice]

I noticed sometimes it has trouble if you have bones slightly misplaced, or perhaps upside-down - is there any error message in the console or the rig import window?

[modest kiln]

It says missing required bone upper left leg

[quaint cosmos]

Have you checked that it's assigned in the configuration menu? Sometimes, bones won't get assigned properly even if they're there due to naming or other issues so they need to be set manually.

[modest kiln]

I dont know how to get into the configuration menu without it being a humanoid rig. I did double check the names and even used the cat addon to try to fix it

[quaint cosmos]

Hmm, it should generally be possible to set something to Humanoid even if there are errors in the configuration but it just won't let you set it that way at all?

[modest kiln]

How do I access that menu?

[quaint cosmos]

You select the rig in your project panel and then go into the rig tab (which is where I imagine you've been setting it to humanoid) below that, there should be a configuration button.

[modest kiln]

the configure menu is empty

[quaint cosmos]

Sorry, I mispoke, I meant just select the FBX, not the rig. The parent object before you expand anything out.

[modest kiln]

I did select the prefab made from the fbx

[quaint cosmos]

That picture you posted looks like you just have the rig selected

Where did you initially go to try to make it a humanoid rig? Did you just do that in the SDK?

[modest kiln]

i dragged the file in and then when to the import settings. it was for the rig, mesh and all. it recognises bones but no human structure

[quaint cosmos]

That's where the configure button is,what happens when you press it?

[modest kiln]

it brings me to the empty screenshot from before

[quaint cosmos]

That's very strange, it should open the configuration menu. We're talking about the button right below "avatar definition", right? Selecting that opens that empty menu?

[modest kiln]

Yes, i have another avatar that works flawlessly, even tried copying over the skeleton but that didnt work

[quaint cosmos]

I can't say I've seen that behavior so I'm not sure. When you expand the FBX in the hierarchy, is there an armature there? When you move the bones, does the mesh move?

[modest kiln]

there is an armature and the mesh moves, does every bone need to move something?

[quaint cosmos]

No, I just wanted to make sure that the mesh had an armature and was skinned to it. I'm not really sure what to do, I've never seen the configuration window just not open.

[jolly pike]

I had that issue aswell, but never knew how to fix it

[queen sage]

Anyone open to rigging an avatar for me? its a runescape model and its not in tpose format. Im not sure how to make it tpose

[ripe compass]

my avatar simply improperly rigged for whatever reason

It was from uploading it too, bones are correct and everything

also the camera is messed up.

(it didnt let me change the height on the camera)

[ripe compass]

just use mixamo

its a free website tool by adobe and you can convert your model into a t-posing model. it also auto-rigs.

[robust mantle]

sure i can help you just dm me

[pale pumice]

Do you have multiple inspector tabs around? I find that doing this it basically chooses one of the inspectors at random, usually not the one I want.

[crimson latch]

Think I need any triangles/5 pointed stars for this area? Obviously the squares will stretch a bit

(for the leg, not the foot)

[brazen island]

@crimson latch what. why would you ever need something but quads

[crimson latch]

Rarely, but never for this model I've managed to not use triangles, but here I wonder if I'll need any 5 point stars

Or just straight rectangles all the way down

[brazen island]

its always only quads

for good normals, and also for subdivisions

[crimson latch]

Of course

But sometimes you need 5 pointed stars

Such as sharp corners

Keeps quads

Basically how much stretching of the rectangles is acceptable for rig deformation

[robust mantle]

As mutch as you need quads can stretch as mutch as you want?

Also triangles are okay for some area's but try avoiding the non-manifold

[fallen maple]

The audio on my avatar is not loud how do I make it loud (avatar intro music)

[quaint cosmos]

Is there a spatial audio source on it? You should be able to adjust the gain there or just increase the levels on the audio file itself.

[fallen maple]

In unity its fine but in game its quite

[brazen island]

vrc compresses it already by like 20db, adjusting audio file wont do a thing, at least not for good, maybe cutting the bass/brilliance would help tho. avatar sounds are quiet by themselves, so make sure you have some reference from other avi and it is quiet in comparison

[fallen maple]

So theres no way to make it louder

[brazen island]

compare. but in general at 100% id say its like twice quieter than the voices

[quaint cosmos]

Unless VRChat is doing some sort of EQ on their end, the input volume will definitely have an impact but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a limit so people don't use avatar sounds to troll worse than they already can.

[brazen island]

vrchat using very heavy compression for everything, for that exact reason. bassboosting/heavy limiting on source audiofile will result only on getting average loudness getting even lower.

[quaint cosmos]

I'm not talking about getting the audio near clipping but at least in worlds, quieter sound files definitely need more gain to be as audible as louder sounds though I can't say I've worked with avatar audio before since that's not enabled for Quest and all my stuff is focused on being cross-compatible.

[pure dome]

just checking, someone showed me this picture a while ago but said it was due for a revision, does anyone know if an updated version of this reference pic was made?

[gusty tinsel]

Question about rotation Constraints in a rig, working on an avatar who needs to "flex" his muscles using a helper bone rigged to the right muscle groups, but for it to work properly it needs to invert the rotation of the source bones, i.e. invert the rotation of the elbow to trigger the flex of the bicep. In blender the system works great just with rolling the bone 180 degrees without having to set the invert in the constraint. However in Unity that causes the Rotation Constraint to completely flip out jittering around, however setting it to work in the same direction works fine, but doesnt give the motion that Im wanting. Any ideas for how to invert the angle given to the rotation constraint? Thanks

[wooden violet]

Getting this problem when importing a model I made. All the required bones exist and are parented correctly. I also copied this rig from another avatar I made. The only differences are that this new one doesn't have toe bones and has a different tail. Nothing seems to fix it, not even the fix model option in CATS

[gusty tinsel]

You might double check the bones are coming up correctly in the "configure" menu in unity, sometimes it doesnt pick up the bones and has to be set manually.

[wooden violet]

I can't even get into the configure menu because of this error

[gusty tinsel]

Hm, Id try a new project, and double check in blender that the roll on the bones isnt too extreme, and the bones are not zero length

[wooden violet]

Yeah the roll is 0 and the lengths are right

[wooden violet]

made a new project and it still doesn't work

[little kindle]

Can someone tell me how to rig this? I can't find any helpful videos on YouTube since most of them are for humanoid rigs.

I saw someone have a Mike Wazowski avatar, but I don't know how they rigged it up.

I just want basic arm and leg movement, nothing special. I don't even have fingers on the model.

I spent half of yesterday and so far all of today trying to figure it out to no avail.

I don't want to start VRChat without making one of my own, figured I'd make something simple. That "something simple" turned out to not be so simple.

[wooden violet]

Add all the required bones, they don't need to affect anything, just make sure they're there and they're right so unity can recognize it as humanoid

[little kindle]

It's not built like a typical humanoid rig, though. The body serves as the head.

[little kindle]

PAIN

[modest kiln]

I had the same problem

[grim tinsel]

you might need to make your own non humanoid inverse kinematics in unity

[modest kiln]

@pale pumice @quaint cosmos thanks, for the help i figured it out. it saying the bone was not detected wasnt because the bone was not there but because it had nothing to move with it. i didnt give weights to the leg bones because i was making something without legs.

[pale pumice]

oh, yeah that'll do it, but you can easily just set that when setting up the rig in Unity

hmm though I bet that's my issue I was getting at with foot position, I didn't weight anything to the feet, just to the lower leg due to how I want this thing to move, but maybe that's a problem

[wooden violet]

Oh my fucking god that was the issue. I hate unity

Here's how I fixed it

Added a separate mesh with weights that I'm gonna delete once it's in Unity

[little kindle]

Unity is giving me all sorts of problems. Made my model transparent, can’t see the bones, and I can’t use the SDK for some reason.