vrchat-general-2

[uncut totem]

im too poor for booth

[north grove]

vr users

[vestal thorn]

You can learn how to make it. You don't need to buy

[arctic elm]

a lot of furries are in IT and other well paying jobs. and pilots ;)

[uncut totem]

15 trackers and a valve index with 16 base stations

epic

[arctic elm]

yeah 10 point tracking in vrc when?

[vestal thorn]

Yup. IT go a long way. You never know who get lock out of there PC. 😉

[uncut totem]

im so happy public avatars exist

[dark harness]

VRC only supports 3 trackers ATM, I think?

[arctic elm]

yeah vrc is only 6 point

[daring raft]

8 tracking points

[silver helm]

69 point tracking when?

[white latch]

the 1 tri avatar is real

[north grove]

nice

[languid beacon]

I would love if instead of leg tracking I could use two on my upper arms

[arctic elm]

10 point tracking is super cool

[white latch]

what do we name them

[spring moat]

Did vrchat stop supporting unicode characters in nametags...

[dark harness]

Oh, boy, that'd be unpopular - but definitely, if you can buy 10 trackers, you can afford to Tip Your Witcher dammit 😛

[languid beacon]

Full body. 6 point becomes leg tracking lol

[swift cloud]

eye tracking only for VRC+

[white latch]

no what do we name the 1 tri avatar i made

[north grove]

add udon variable to get vrc+

[vestal thorn]

If you want know best skill to learn. IT all the way. That where you can make big buck...

[tulip forge]

nah

[daring raft]

Smelvin thex1xcert

[arctic elm]

you have been silenced

[uncut totem]

i think once i will get a quest 2 i will save for trackers and base stations

[vocal shard]

in vr chat

[dark harness]

We did stop supporting unicode symbols in display names

[uncut totem]

full body looks really cool and fun

[north grove]

Im glad that is not on the table

[spring moat]

Dammit... I have a moon in my name and now people wont recognize me :I

[north grove]

good

[spring moat]

It's just a dot now....

[arctic elm]

well, good thing i got rid of ᵐʸ ᵗᶦⁿʸ ⁿᵃᵐᵉ

[dark harness]

Forever, the security team was like "you need to prevent people from using obscure unicode characters that won't display in the client" and I was like "okay wise guy, give me a list of valid unicode characters for ALL HUMAN LANGUAGES and I'll use that instead"

and then someone did just that and I was like "oh"

[spring moat]

Can we please have some unicode characters allowed...

[brave compass]

Wait hold on, how do who know who is a Quest user and who isnt now with the new Nametags?

[dark harness]

good thing we hire competent people every now and again

[uncut totem]

yay no more names like ♡ ♡ c ô ô ℒ ♡ ♡

[vestal thorn]

That good. It was too hard try type symbol

[languid beacon]

Ask I suppose

[swift cloud]

I would say though, hearts were cute

[brave compass]

There really isnt a Symbol anymore?

[vestal thorn]

That log hacker guy going be so mad. Karma

[dark harness]

Well, any users who had symbols before are grandfathered in

[spring moat]

Grandfathered?

[dark harness]

A lot of them still won't display in VRChat

well, we didn't change their names to take the symbols away, so they still have 'em

[daring raft]

Is my 3 letter name still good?

[verbal meteor]

Those symbols made reporting a pain for me as I had to dig up a table just to reiterate the names of people causing trouble.

[uncut totem]

i got the user futs so i guess thats cool

[spring moat]

I mean yeah, but the symbols should still work :(

[white latch]

what do we name them https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/625905470850465808/784227616801685554/unknown.png

[dark harness]

Yeah, the biggest complaint with symbols was that it made moderation much harder

[vestal thorn]

Oh, maybe 1 day

[languid beacon]

Could give everyone a number lol

[dark harness]

I mean, "all human languages" still makes moderation pretty fribbiting hard

[odd blaze]

Had to dig it up in output logs when i reported certain ones, was annoying

[north grove]

just enforce a-zA-Z0-9

[arctic elm]

but im [vivi]

[vocal shard]

is there a whitelist for available characters?

[dark harness]

I fought hard against alphanum, partially because we have an International Community

[vestal thorn]

Agree

[swift cloud]

just being able to see KR, JP etc is so nice

[daring raft]

Is it only 4 characters plus?

[dark harness]

Yeah, 4+ characters

some users got hyper-short names before we added that

[daring raft]

Haha 3 letter name still good

[dark harness]

one of our team members got the extremely rare name: ""

0 characters

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

[vestal thorn]

So as long I don't update my name. I can keep Tiger__?

[daring raft]

Lil

[languid beacon]

VRC has a BIG Japanese community. They like having their actual names

[daring raft]

I got mtn

[uncut totem]

did anyone get a 1 character name

[dark harness]

well, I know Q did

[daring raft]

Q

[uncut totem]

Q

[dark harness]

Q_Q

[arctic elm]

add emoji support for names pls

[daring raft]

Thought that was a client name when i seen Q

[dark harness]

I could add fun characters and emoji in a quick patch but I'd have to work with the client team to make sure the nameplates display them properly and those guys stopped taking my calls ages ago 😉

[vestal thorn]

I love have custom name system over user name but I sure that not coming any time soon. I was too late claim name Tiger

[vocal shard]

Finally done work

[rose timber]

So far I’ve seen one thing that looks better in 10pt than 6pt: Dancing Like A Chicken. I expect to see a lot of chicken dancers if this is ever implemented.

[swift cloud]

add default profile photos of the team members for vrc+ ;0

[arctic elm]

if you add emoji support make sure to let me know ahead of time so i can be " 🐴 🐓 " thanks :)

[uncut totem]

nucking futs

[floral aspen]

"" is a cool person

[dark harness]

oh, boy, we might need to leave out 🐓 and 🍑 and 🍆 just as a precautionary measure

think of the scandal

[floral aspen]

You know it's gonna happen lol

[arctic elm]

do i get an exception because im cool and suggested it :)

[daring raft]

For the people

[dark harness]

I could add a sanitization rule to auto-change 🍑 to 🍒

and auto-change 🍆 to 🥑

"does that help?"

"none of the sanitization rules help"

[daring raft]

Lol

[dark harness]

"they are exclusively there for the lulz"

[silver helm]

and lemons?

[sterile prawn]

so if you used vrc+ in the beta you will appear as a vrchat + user in live

[arctic elm]

howdy ranty

[sterile prawn]

howdy!

[dark harness]

Is that the case? I thought I'd eradicated all trace of the open beta with my proton cannon of random, violent database commands

I'd hoped at least

MORE RANDOM DATABASE VIOLENCE, THEN

[sterile prawn]

I have a streamer friend I thought was a plus user he said on his end he was normal but he set his icon during the beta

[dark harness]

I don't have admin, I just hit it with a bat until data falls out

[sterile prawn]

so to everyone else he looked like a plus

[arctic elm]

oh lemme check for me

[floral aspen]

just drop the whole table

[deft girder]

I have a 1 char name as well

[daring raft]

Nice

[icy tangle]

I was just messing with parsing people's usernames for user specific udon thing

[indigo fern]

have they tried unplugging it, waiting 5 minutes, and plugging it back in

[dark harness]

every time I do that everyone freaks out at me

[cobalt rampart]

I dont know if this is the right zone to ask, but i'd like to buy VRchat+ for a bunch of my friends for christmas. Is there a way i can gift a month to people?

[mental pendant]

Hey, quick question? The SDK download link is still giving me 11/16's SDK instead of today's.

[dark harness]

No gifting yet, no

[deft girder]

So far from what I saw there was no new sdk today

[cobalt rampart]

Is there any way in the interim that i can buy it for them?

[gleaming kraken]

gift a steam giftcard

[viscid seal]

you could get them a steam gift card (edit: oh, beaten by spirited 😄)

[dark harness]

Not directly through us, right now.

[mental pendant]

OH crap I should have read a little closer. Tupper's mention of the SDK in the announcement was just a reminder to generally be on the newest one... not a "here's a new SDK release" 😛

[gleaming hill]

Are there any good Touhou avatars?

[cobalt rampart]

Understandable. Thanks for the help everyone!

[viscid seal]

👍

[dark harness]

A lot of people would like to ship gifting before Dec 25 (what is it about that DAY?!? does it have some kind of religious significance?!) and I'm not confident we could ship such a complex new feature on top of the already-complicated-new-feature-we-just-shipped in time

gifting is less compelling in January

generosity time is over, all the bills have come

[mental pendant]

unless you have a birthday in January. then it's still compelling. xD

[arctic elm]

I didnt get to keep my icon from the beta btw

[marble totem]

Uh

[dark harness]

If it does come out, it's going to be a flaming hot "we are working on it while it is shipping" kind of product, and honestly, after this launch, I'm not sure if I have another one of those in me this year

[neon plover]

hey, i wanna ask if vrchat is only available in steam or

[marble totem]

My favorite button says I have 100 favorite slots

[sterile prawn]

A lot of my friends also want a way to make the subscription manual instead of an automatic renewal

[marble totem]

But the Favorite Avatars category says I only have 25

[north grove]

If the next big update releases just change the admin passwords then go to bed

[arctic elm]

yeah i dont want auto renew for me ^

[floral aspen]

It's available on Steam as well as the Oculus Store

[dark harness]

That's a subset of gifting - like a gift, to yourself

If we ship gifting, we'll probably also ship one-off subs, because they're the same feature, just... targeted at you

[neon plover]

thanks

[floral aspen]

np

[marble totem]

Oh I see, VRC+ groups for favs.

[torpid mason]

Is it even possible to buy it right now?

seems the only way is through steamvr overlay, can't pay while in vr.

[tacit plank]

Will you come out with vrc++; next year?

[floral aspen]

I prefer vrc#

[tacit plank]

That's hilarious, udon/udon sharp should have been called that

[dark harness]

we've been tossing around the idea of vrchat-, which takes away features

[north grove]

nice

[daring raft]

Oooh ya

[tacit plank]

Lmao, I thought that people who wanted that just got a quest

[north grove]

rename moderation actions

[torpid mason]

do we get money for that?

[floral aspen]

release date when?

[ruby needle]

@dark harness do we get 9.99$ a month if we sign up to vrchat-? 😄

[dark harness]

😄 obviously we'd have to pay you for vrchat-, but in order to make that sustainable for our business model I'd have to write the code that does that, you know, to guarantee that it never, ever worked

[ruby needle]

Wait, hold on.

[north grove]

just make a patreon to get money

[tacit plank]

What if you messed up and wrote perfectly functional code instead?

[ruby needle]

Thats a scam.

[dark harness]

oh no! that's just how my luck would go, too

you screwed up at screwing up

perfect pay-out engine accidentl

I've learned in our last N years of trying to get some kind of payment infrastructure in place that accepting money from users is hard, but giving money back to users is , like, the Dark Souls of payment infrastructure

[floral aspen]

I hope I never have to program anything related to e-commerce

[tacit plank]

You mean the legal aspects? Legal texts are worth than freaking JS, java EE even

[dark harness]

I HOPE THAT TOO. I WAKE UP EVERY DAY HOPING THAT.

[white latch]

im naming the 1 tri man hurburt

[neon plover]

Does vrchat requires vr headset or...

[floral aspen]

no, you can play on desktop as well

[neon plover]

wait u can play with keyboard?

[floral aspen]

yes

[neon plover]

OMG! thank you so much

[floral aspen]

np

[neon plover]

i just made a 3d model

[tacit plank]

If anything is too difficult in programming, you can always find a completely unreliable third party to rely on, like paypal

[torpid mason]

There's literally no way of me buying vrc+ lol

[dark harness]

the legal aspects are what make it hard, yeah - if you want to build payment infrastructure, either you need to store a load of financial data yourself, pass SOX audits, and handle all of the legal stuff in-house - this is why Roblox and SecondLife are, like, half developers, half pencil-pushers - you need a LARGE in-house audit/financial/fraud team to make that work
OR
you need to find a payment partner who's willing to work with you, which is better (they handle the "having a large legal/business/fraud team" part for you) - but we've found a lot of them to be hugely inflexible, and we want some really complicated stuff

[torpid mason]

all of the payment methods dont work in steamvr and doesn't seem like you can do it as desktop

[tacit plank]

Damn, losing all confidence in my username here, can't beat nhentai fora name

[floral aspen]

Just keep in mind if you're a new player you won't be able to upload your model immediately. You'll need to gain trusted rank to do that

[white latch]

Anyone know if its possible to change the default new scene for unity

[tacit plank]

Yeah, sounds like a pain

[tulip forge]

https://forum.unity.com/threads/change-the-default-scene.340706/?_ga=2.243544256.439358082.1607016944-120517292.1594607609

[floral aspen]

Exactly why I don't want to get anywhere near that stuff

[dark harness]

I can't go too hard into it, but every time someone's like "System, can you build us a large complicated payment system and handle everything in-house" I respond by lighting myself on fire and running into the sea

which usually ends the conversation

[floral aspen]

I don't envy you lol

[tacit plank]

Safe for another day

[white latch]

danke this'll work for now

[neon plover]

;-;

what kinda trust rank??

[tacit plank]

I'm off to bed, you guys keep up that great humor that only be cultivated through suffering

[arctic elm]

you gotta play for a few hours until you get new user rank iirc. your name turns blue in the menu

[neon plover]

thanks for telling ❤️

[green creek]

I would have thought that the one named caffeine would never sleep, but who am I to tell.

[languid beacon]

That's. Kind of what VRC+ is, lol

pay monthly to get stuff.

[north grove]

i want to pay people that actually do stuff /s

[gleaming kraken]

the support and features should have been separate

[white latch]

[languid beacon]

You can! lots of people on patreon

[tacit plank]

I've been up for 23 hours, it's 3am now and I'm at the end of an exam project that I've been neglecting. Even caffeine won't save me, but sleeping now would help

[green creek]

oof

[dark harness]

If we did something on Patreon, we'd have to pay both Patreon and Steam a cut of that sweet luchre, leaving less pie for us, the pie eaters.

[tacit plank]

Just in case you think I've been working hard, I haven't. I've been in VRC until now. Well, good night everyone

[green creek]

night

sleep well

[languid beacon]

Welp I just did a year, excited to see where we end up this time next year

[dark harness]

Also: deep integration with Patreon ain't easy, and I don't think it's a terribly good model for larger operations

[arctic elm]

were there any optimization updates with this release?

[tacit plank]

It's not, VRC would get blacklisted for "anime avatars which obviously supports pedophilia somehow" or whatever

[white latch]

"just press the button that adds patreon support!" /j

[dark harness]

Patreon's cut is not that big - 12% seems huge, but depending on the functionality you're getting out of them, many partners want way more - but that cut happens outside of the platform

anybody giving away stuff for free on the Apple store backed by Patreon is going to be in for a big surprise when Apple comes a-lookin' for their extremely generous cut (once they're big enough for Apple to go after)

[floral aspen]

yeah, Patreon isn't really meant for businesses

better for individuals

[indigo fern]

shouldve just used onlyfans
get with the times

[dark harness]

😄 just use VRChat to launch our own always-running twitch channel and support ourselves entirely through twitch subs

we thought about that but I was like "how many pop tarts CAN I eat" and it wasn't enough

[indigo fern]

only if you run the channel 😳

[dark harness]

VRChat prime is the state-run-media of VTubers

[eager meteor]

vrchat onlyfans?

[white latch]

I'd pay to watch that

[arctic elm]

just stream fbt lewds

[vocal shard]

O.O

[tacit plank]

Probably last comment before I go to sleep: VRC runs pretty well by now. Most further "Optimization" that you wish for will ultimately have to come from the users making horrible avatars. Especially those using Unity tools/scripts to avoid using Blender. The current mentality is something like "As long as you're not 10 times over the very poor limit, or we drop 10 FPS when we look at you, or your avatar is much bigger than 100MB, we won't mention it or care at all". And very well, but having only 20-30 FPS on a 2500$ computer is the consequence of that

[arctic elm]

someone said the lag fix was just the new nametags lol

[green creek]

bruh

[floral aspen]

well to be fair, on the old nametags I had a noticeable fps increase when turning them off

[dark harness]

Let us conclude our programming with our customary singing of the VRChanthem.

ALL GLORY TO VRCHAT
WE SING TO THEE
ABOUT THE HEATPATS
THAT I SEE

[eager meteor]

you messed up somewhere when purchasing that PC, mine is about the same price and i have 90 fps, which is the max

[white latch]

huebert the singular floating color changing tri is now real https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/625905470850465808/784239573013889034/unknown.png

[green creek]

heatpats

[floral aspen]

you don't have 90 fps consistent in every room though

[dark harness]

heh heh "huebert" heh

[eager meteor]

No, but in most rooms

[green creek]

like fire hands bopping you on the head

[white latch]

i am the queen of comedy i tell you

[green creek]

ha ha

[eager meteor]

Actually. i don't think i've been somewhere where the room alone put me under 90 fps

[tacit plank]

My GPU is the weakest aspect, just a 1070. But that could get 90 fps too if people spend 5 minutes extra on the model. They just don't, and honestly I don't either

[green creek]

nice try, im better at dad jokes.

[tacit plank]

But I don't blame VRC for the consequences of that

[floral aspen]

most rooms by themselves won't drop your fps. It's all the shitty unoptimized avatars

[eager meteor]

oh.. when was that pc bought?

@dark harness Is there any public stats about how many VRC+ users there currently is?

[tacit plank]

Like 2 years ago

[green creek]

and anyway, Trix are for kids

[dark harness]

OH VRCHAT OH VRCHAT
MAY YOUR SERVERS NEVER FAIL
FOR JEFF BEZOS IS HUNGRY
FILL HIS AMAZON MONEY PAIL

[floral aspen]

I doubt it since it just launched

[dark harness]

I have access to many stats, and I'm not allowed to divulge ANY of them on my own

[tacit plank]

I've worked enough with AWS to know that I don't want to work much more with AWS in the future

[potent fulcrum]

oof

[eager meteor]

get another staff member and divulge them together 😄

[white latch]

there is at least 3 vrc+ users

[floral aspen]

if even 10% of the player population subscribed that would be a pretty nice monthly income

[eager meteor]

i had a free tier... my instance was shut down but not the load balancer... i wasn't using any of it and suddenly they began wanting $20/month just for the load balancer which i didn't even use

[dark harness]

I can share this juicy bad boy: about 250 mutes every 10 minutes right now

[white latch]

most is undetermined

[eager meteor]

So, 250 people press mute every 10 minute currently?

[potent fulcrum]

sounds about right

[dark harness]

AWS is extremely good at finding ways to charge you money

[dusk tartan]

At least 1

[eager meteor]

Yup... Azure as well

[white latch]

That's a fun statistic, for april fools we should mute eachother all at once in a 10 minute period to confuse system

[dark harness]

We moved to AWS from DigitalOcean, which was extremely fair about pricing, because the other thing that AWS is extremely good at is keeping the lights on

[tacit plank]

"You just write this cloudformation thingy, no local testing. If you mess up it will cost you"

[eager meteor]

someone at the company clicked a wrong button and we were charged a.... really big amount

[dark harness]

When AWS has an outage, nobody yells at me, because when AWS has an outage everybody knows about it and it's very clearly not my fault

[tacit plank]

What do I do with the secret "points" that translate into VRC rank which has long ago surpassed the veteran ran twice?

[arctic elm]

aws stimky

[dark harness]

😄 oh, one time I hit a button in Cloudflare with an unclear pricing model and per-month billing and
everything was noticeably faster for our users and they came to me in 2 weeks saying "okay, guys, how are you going to deal with this $47,000 bill

and I was like "oh, shit, I'm gonna get fired"

[floral aspen]

lmao oh shit

[dark harness]

but then I didn't get fired, so, that's good

[eager meteor]

On our end it was the double of that i believe.. in a day

[tacit plank]

Got it disputed?

[eager meteor]

We luckily did get it disputed

[dark harness]

I'm an engineer, I sicced our business peeps on it

[sharp saddle]

$47k?! Jeeeeeeez.

[tacit plank]

I hear they're nice about refunds, but that's probably only if the amount is small and because it gives them good PR

[eager meteor]

i did some evaluations at work, we had some questions like "What if all of Azure and AWS shut down at once. Whats the backup plan and severity"

[dark harness]

lol

[eager meteor]

I'm preetty sure no one cares about if we're up if both of those are down globally

[floral aspen]

Azure and AWS? That's like, the entire internet basically.

[eager meteor]

Yup, There was also one with only Azure

[dark harness]

yeah, if all of Azure and AWS shut down my business recovery plan is "get the guns, shit's going down"

[arctic elm]

its basically happened before lol

[dark harness]

I'M GOING TO BE THE MAYOR OF CAN TOWN

[floral aspen]

Get the bottlecaps ready!

[white latch]

viva la revolution

[eager meteor]

Yeah... there's just nothing a small startup can do if that happens, it's not like we matter if the entire internet is down

[tacit plank]

Anyways, yeah, I feel your pain. Well, not very much yet, but I certainly see the pain of my career path approaching. Luckily my current Amazon bill is only 0.21$
Edit: I really need to sleep now, laters

[dark harness]

😄 yeah, I run some personal stuff on AWS and I pay them 28 cents a month

[eager meteor]

My current server bill is $0! They're all at home and parents pay for power!

[floral aspen]

good night

[white latch]

I should name my VRChat unity avatar projects better than:
VRChat_Avatar
VRCHAT_Avatar_Project
VRChat_Avatar_Project_2_Beta3
VRChat_Avatar_Project_2_Quest
VRCHAT_Avatar_Project_Beta3
VRCHAT_Avatar_Project_OLD_2017
VRChat_Avatar_Project_SDK3_Quest

[eager meteor]

@dark harness PLEASE tell me theres stats about how many people are currently sleeping in VRC

[vestal thorn]

got my VRC+ XD

[dark harness]

VRCHAT_Avatar_Project_2020_Final_final_rev3_Final_Quest_final

[eager meteor]

you forgot _actually_the_final

[dark harness]

We actually can't detect whether or not people are sleeping

yet

[swift cloud]

thats just my avatar names, don't get started with project names...

[eager meteor]

You can't listen to snoring sounds or weird laying positions?

[arctic elm]

vrchat_avatar_bun-boy_stupid_broken_fixed_with-hair_broken-again

[floral aspen]

Is it bad my main avatar was uploaded using the 5.6 SDK? lol I've just never gotten around to updating it

[dark harness]

😛 you'd be surprised to discover that we do not surveil you enough for that to be practical :3

[white latch]

if you could y'all would totally be selling it

[eager meteor]

Come on... google already has all the info about me, i don't care if you have it!

[dark harness]

.... I mean, it's a little bad? So long as that 5.6-uploaded avatar still runs, have at it, but the days are numbered

[eager meteor]

this slow mode is so annoying

[dark harness]

😄 you're racing against our next Unity update, which is a race that you can definitely win

[eager meteor]

Wait unity updates? i thought 2018.3f..... was the latest one!?

[dark harness]

also: unity updates don't always break old avatars, that's one of the reasons that they take so long, we spend months working with Unity to add cross-compatibility with loads of old Unity versions and this is something that Unity is explicitly not intended to support

[white latch]

im still pissed about how unity's newest versions has dark theme for free

[dark harness]

... I mean, presumably we'll crawl forward with more unity updates eventually, we always do - eventually

[floral aspen]

my avatar still has the bug where if you reach into a mirror it will reach back out at you lol

[vocal shard]

Oh I still have a few that do that

Self headpats

[eager meteor]

Are you provided with Unity Dark Mode at work... i can never go back to light mode

[indigo fern]

Self hug 🫂

[dark harness]

😛 no

I have dark mode on everything else though

[eager meteor]

Poor souls

[white latch]

im worried for all the people who use my hollow knight avatars because i havent updated those in ages

[eager meteor]

GitHub is giving me Unity Dark Mode :D

[dark harness]

Slack? dark mode. Youtube? dark mode. VRChat Home? dark mode by default, I'm not a monster. Git? Dark mode. WebStorm? Dark mode. VSCode? Dark mode.

and then it's 2AM and I open google.com and my FACE BURNS OFF

[eager meteor]

Sounds about right, Windows? dark mode

[vestal thorn]

soon. i log on and try find all good avatar that is missing on my list 🙂

[floral aspen]

No dark mode?! I feel like I need to report VRChat for abusive working conditions. How does it feel having to burn your retinas every day?

[white latch]

whats funny is that youtube is part of google

[dark harness]

I don't have to open Unity ever

I'm a server boi

[eager meteor]

The good kind of boi!

[vestal thorn]

neat. i am on boi server too

[eager meteor]

Can i run my own vrchat server?

[floral aspen]

oh yeah, that's right. I still remember the little community update stream where you explained what you did

[white latch]

i am "god god fuck you unity why the fuck do you do this to me please stop crashing why why"

[eager meteor]

I was at a data center where i got my hands on 42tb of storage for $400... finally have enough for the VRChat Cache

[dark harness]

Is good because Unity is the tool that they use to punish developers who have lived a life without virtue

[white latch]

unity lightmapping makes me cry

[floral aspen]

You ever wonder what VRChat would be like if it was on unreal?

[dark harness]

TBH, I think it would be worse

[eager meteor]

It would be... unreal

Hear me out.. VRChat with RTX

[white latch]

there is vrchat with rtx I think?

[floral aspen]

VRChat doesn't natively support ray tracing

[fleet dust]

ummm im still love old name tag vrchat before this one T_T

[dark harness]

I think of Unreal as more complex and difficult for amateur users - so we'd have a VRChat with way less community content and memes, and where's the fun in that?

[white latch]

I remember using unreal before and cried because it was too hard

[floral aspen]

yeah, I've watched a few unreal tutorials and it seems much less user friendly than Unity

[eager meteor]

@dark harness What's the average specs of a VRChat server?

[severe cloud]

if we have a question about something vrchat related whats the best room for that

[dark harness]

the average VRChat server is actively worse than a Raspberry Pi

[white latch]

im the person who spent 2 and a half hours going through unity documentation to make a curtain that open and closes for my world because i couldn't make it work with the node editor and was using udon sharp

[eager meteor]

Sounds accurate

[dark harness]

the trick is we run hundreds of them

[eager meteor]

Ah

[dark harness]

as it turns out, my mesh of terrible servers isn't necessarily the most performant, but it's quite resilient

[white latch]

the servers are actually system's brain

[eager meteor]

How often does a server break down?

[dark harness]

... right now? about 3 times an hour

[eager meteor]

I hope you're lying

[dark harness]

Nope.

[floral aspen]

Luckily in a mesh theres usually another server there to pick up the slack

[dark harness]

That's the whole deal with having a whole buttload of servers that aren't terribly good/smart

They die

¯_(ツ)_/¯

two more replace them

[floral aspen]

like a server hydra

[white latch]

its rasberry pi's all the way down

[eager meteor]

That would expand too quickly in this case

[arctic elm]

hydra would be a great name for an auto load balancing thing tbh

[eager meteor]

6 new servers an hour? no thanks

[dark harness]

Yeah, it would - in my case they die and get rebooted and quickly jump back into the queue

[eager meteor]

expensive load balancing

[floral aspen]

just because they die doesn't mean that can't be resuscitated and brought back into the fold

[arctic elm]

i mean id imagine they shut down when not needed

[eager meteor]

I have some servers at home i don't really know what i should use for

[dark harness]

and every couple of days we do a deploy and while we deploy we comb out any servers that have become totally unresponsive and replace them with fresh clean bois

[arctic elm]

s'all cloud stuff right

[floral aspen]

Raspberry Pi's are pretty cool though. We use them as thin clients at work

[dark harness]

it's a erlang-BEAM-inspired structure where we achieve reliability by accepting that fatal errors are Just Gonna Happen

[eager meteor]

RPi's are cool.. but so slow

[arctic elm]

i use my rpi for pihole

[white latch]

I was looking for an old avatar I made and found the one i made that had like 20 different materials and just-- mistakes were made.

[vocal shard]

I bought a pi because I thought it was cool... But then never used it since I don't know what to do other than the basic operating system.

[white latch]

minecraft pi edition

[arctic elm]

pihole :)

[floral aspen]

They're good enough now that you can have a decent experience with a full linux distro

They recently came out with a 8GB variant

[eager meteor]

The best thing i used a Pi for was automatically hacking wifis (i only tested on my own network! completely legal)

[dark harness]

cool things to build with a Pi:

1. RetroPie, attach some cheapo SNES controllers and put it in a nice NES or SNES case
2. build a little KODI box, add a 4TB external hard drive, fill it to the brim with movies from 1980-2020, put the whole array in a cardboard box with a few wires hanging out the back, write "BLOCKBUSTER 2020" on the box in sharpie, and give it to your parents as a pandemic gift
3. PiHole, if you're really serious about adblocking

[ruby needle]

4. SDR receiver

[dark harness]

I did 2 for a bunch of family members recently, it went pretty well

[arctic elm]

yeah not having tons of ads on my phone while on wifi is very nice tbh

[eager meteor]

number 2 is oddly specific

[dark harness]

"ALL the james bond movies?" - my dad

[eager meteor]

I guess an SDR reciever could be fun, but i already have dedicated hardware for that. And the same goes for kodi box

[floral aspen]

I've been meaning to do that for my parents. They want to watch netflix and start streaming stuff, but their shitty satellite internet makes that impossible

[vocal shard]

Heh nice

[eager meteor]

I gotta get to bed now.. i have a dentist appointment in about, 5 hours

[vocal shard]

Cya

[eager meteor]

One last question @dark harness.. how many servers were deployed when this picture was taken? https://i.imgur.com/OdQUEFN.jpg

[floral aspen]

night

[arctic elm]

anyone know stuff about aviation i need to study but im dumb

[dark harness]

@eager meteor that predates me. One PHP server, Heroku

[floral aspen]

dang, those nameplates. That's gotta be 2015 VRChat

[white latch]

Oh damn the pony avatars existed back then too

[eager meteor]

vrchat once ran on... heroku?

and..... PHP??!??

[floral aspen]

I see Mr. "" in that pic

[dark harness]

When I came in in 2016, VRChat's backend was PHP, Heroku, and a Parse database

[eager meteor]

this can't be good

[arctic elm]

woah i didnt know you could make a game engine in php

[dark harness]

backend

[eager meteor]

No, the server was in.. php

[dark harness]

The frontend was Unity and always will be

[arctic elm]

:P (jokes)

[floral aspen]

you gotta remember VRChat was a very small startup at one point and things were popping if the total player population got into the double digits lol

[white latch]

and now here we are

[eager meteor]

Isn't a PHP backend.. really slow?

[floral aspen]

At the time that picture was taken AWS would have been hella overkill

[white latch]

Everything changed when the knuckles nation attacked

[dark harness]

One of the first tasks I had was to prune a bunch of worlds from the worlds list, because the backend sent every world in the entire system (including plaintext world-passwords) every time you looked at the world list, and it was starting to get a little slow because the "companion app" hit that endpoint every 10 seconds and 1200 worlds was too many for the system to handle

While I was looking at it, I was like "oh, most of this is going to have to be burned down"

[eager meteor]

ouch

[floral aspen]

"plaintext world passwords"
yikes

[eager meteor]

atleast it's just world passwords and not user passwords... they were probably plaintext too though

[white latch]

And so system lit a match and it was all on fire

[dark harness]

Nope!

[eager meteor]

md5? sha256?

[dark harness]

Because Parse was a whole-application-in-a-box, it used bcrypt by default

[eager meteor]

Uhhh, interesting

[dark harness]

md5 and sha256 are bad choices for password hashing because they're too fast

[eager meteor]

I sure know

[floral aspen]

hasn't md5 been proven to be insecure at this point?

[arctic elm]

i wish i knew more about programming n stuff

[eager meteor]

I have cracked a bunch of passwords in my life

[arctic elm]

yeah unless its salted or something?

[eager meteor]

It's just fast and theres collisions

[dark harness]

When we moved from Parse to a custom backend, I kept bcrypt - not just because it meant we wouldn't have to rebuild all of the passwords, but also because it was a pretty sane choice in the first place.

[white latch]

what was the least sane choice

[eager meteor]

Can you just rebuild them though?

[dark harness]

Yeah, salting a hash is a good idea, but it's hard to overcome that a modern GPU can run md5 a trillion times a second

[eager meteor]

lemme check the speed

[arctic elm]

salting your hash is also a good idea for breakfast

[eager meteor]

48410.9 million hashes a second

[dark harness]

in 2008 a GPU could do 110 million MD5 hashes per second, and that was before cryptomining became a thing

[eager meteor]

only 6949.6 million sha256 hashes a second

[arctic elm]

so how do make good encrypt pw today

[eager meteor]

pbkdf2

[floral aspen]

good encryption is hard

[arctic elm]

security has been one of the things stopping me from trying to make some app or website, I don't want to end up having users passwords get out

[eager meteor]

You don't wanna encrypt passwords

[arctic elm]

plaintext, got it

[eager meteor]

encrypting goes both ways
enc(plain) = gibberish
dec(gibberish) = plain

The only way to "decrypt" hashes is by trying to hash alot of combinations and then comparing them with the hash you want to "decrypt"

[arctic elm]

right, so what's the best method to deal with passwords these days

[eager meteor]

Hashing them

[vocal shard]

I just wanted to say how much I HATE the nametag changes. thats all i wanted to say

[eager meteor]

When you register, save the hash
When the person logs in hash the password.. see if the hashes match

[arctic elm]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/bring-back-trust-rank-on-nametag

[dark harness]

It's hard to say for absolute sure, but "hash passwords with a slow, modern, well-tested hashing algorithm (and the work factor turnt way up), salt with a large block of random data" is pretty solid

[eager meteor]

Ideally you wanna use something like pbkdf2 with atleast 10000 iterations and a good salt

and "slow" is not slow normally, it's still super fast if you try to login on a website

But when you want to do it millions of times in a second, slow adds up

[arctic elm]

Hmm... time to look into this stuff more so i do it right...
def gonna use plaintext until then on my production service :)

[dark harness]

Our work factor is set pretty aggressively, I railed it up so high that it took like 2 seconds to log in to VRChat and then pulled it back, but a login against our systems is still, like, 300ms

[eager meteor]

Go for it, just make sure no one gets access to your DB then

I really need to get some sleep now, you made me stay half an hour more

[dark harness]

but that's with a little toaster server. I'm seeing people are building bcrypt-beating FPGA clusters which is concerning

[floral aspen]

Remember to always sanitize your inputs!

[eager meteor]

No that's very fun!

[arctic elm]

that sounds like a lot of work...

[dark harness]

and bcrypt doesn't have a configurable memory parameter like newer scrypt and Argon2

[eager meteor]

I need to get back to FPGA programming, it's super fun

[arctic elm]

thanks for the info btw, pardon my jokes lol. hav good slep

[eager meteor]

No problem, I'm almost always available to talk about IT Security stuff

Work with it on a daily basis

[arctic elm]

i learned about cybersecurity the hard way lmao, i have a smol online business and got hackered many years back

[cinder steppe]

any word on when the server will be back up?

[dark harness]

... the server's not up?

[cinder steppe]

or hold up

been a while since i checked lol

[ruby needle]

First try, then cry. /s

[eager meteor]

Oh, We’ve been holding the server guy here while it was down!

[eager meteor]

Think I started when I was 12

[dark harness]

there was a big, BIG response time strike just after noon, but we got that under control before long

[arctic elm]

about the same. I hosted minecraft servers, the guy that owned mcprohosting didn't like me lmao

[eager meteor]

And been interested in it ever since

I started with MC too 😂

[cinder steppe]

so like, I logged into my account but i spawned at the general starting world with non of my avatars.

[eager meteor]

And well, now I’m 15 and have a very nice and well paying job.. cyber security is so fun

[arctic elm]

he had daddies money so he actually went on to make millions making mcpro and mixer while I was broke in high school 🤷‍♀️

I'm a little salty tho

[dark harness]

Hey, I was broke and geeky in high school! And look at me now, a 35-year old man with a cat, still at work at 7pm!

... maybe I should lead with something more impressive

[arctic elm]

idk sounds like husband material to me

[dark harness]

I have a wife also, she is much more talented and creative than I am, a VFX worker

currently furloughed because the film industry went beoooooooooo frrrrrpt

[arctic elm]

see I was right lmao

[eager meteor]

Ooh, I find VFX and everything graphics related amusing.. do they have infinite time?

[arctic elm]

I'm almost done with uni, gonna be an airline pilot, v excited. also gonna expand my business and stuff :3

[eager meteor]

Come pick me up in Denmark!

[arctic elm]

once I'm on international routes I will :P

[dark harness]

Right now she has a lot of time on her hands, but she's been using it on a bunch of personal projects - working on her reel, working on art projects for her family - she (we) have a brand new baby niece and she's working on an Alice in Wonderland-themed art installation for her nursery

Sometimes she makes pixel art for me

[lucid sandal]

When will the 25 favorite limit be rolled out?

[dark harness]

It's out already

[arctic elm]

what's the kitty name btw

[dark harness]

Zapp (Brannigan)

[lucid sandal]

When did it come out?

[arctic elm]

nice

[dark harness]

this morning

[tulip forge]

with today's release

[lucid sandal]

👀

[eager meteor]

I still need to decide on a Uni

[arctic elm]

my tortoise was named turt reynolds

[dark harness]

hee hee

[eager meteor]

But first.. I need to decide if I wanna do high school or not

[vocal shard]

why do some many people have these cringe avatars and afk in front of mirrors

[cinder steppe]

is there a reason I dont have any of my avatars or worlds rn? just confused whats going on

[dark harness]

I don't know! Not anything obvious on my side! You might contact [e-mail] and they may be able to help?

they'll be like "have you tried turning it off and on again" and "clear the cache" and "have you thrown your computer into the sun? if so, don't have done that"

[neon oracle]

forgive me for I have sinned vrc overlords 🙏

[cinder steppe]

i'll have to talk to them. i still have all my test builds tho

[eager meteor]

Is there anywhere I can say that my VRC+ payments should go to @dark harness ‘a salary?

[dark harness]

😛 just declare it right here and I'll see to it

make a note on your file

[eager meteor]

The full monthly amount $9.99 of my VRC+ payments should go 100% to @dark harness ‘a salary

[tame cave]

can i go back to the old version

[eager meteor]

There

[dark harness]

💸 ha ha

[eager meteor]

Are you allowed to speak about server cost?

[dark harness]

I'm going to use this $10/mo to buy a subscription to some other service! HBO MAX HERE I COME

Not really, no

it's "lots"

[lucid sandal]

30 bucks a month lmao

[dark harness]

I have pretty precise stats about VRChat+ and all I can say is "it's going well"

[eager meteor]

I was at a small data center here in DK

Their monthly power bill was $163k

[arctic elm]

idk im sure vrc has made like at least $100 from vrc+

[eager meteor]

Certainly

[dark harness]

We work with a number of partners, and those partners each take big sackfuls of our money every month and run with them and toss them into a big fire

[neon oracle]

transparency incoming

[eager meteor]

Imagine a VRC AWS partnership

[arctic elm]

clicks button on CF

[dark harness]

We have a relatively close relationship with AWS

we're, like, a teeny tiny blip on their radar

but enough of a tiny blip that there's someone there who will get back to us, once in a while

[arctic elm]

"please use brickyard"

[dark harness]

we're on their radar

[eager meteor]

But you still pay them! A 10x faster servers and 100% less cost would be an amazing partnership

[torn nebula]

is that a partnership or charity? 🤔

[dark harness]

😄 we also have a MAN ON THE INSIDE

[worthy oracle]

😳

[dark harness]

spy chords

[eager meteor]

I really need to get some sleep now... can you like mute me for an hour?

[torn nebula]

I for one have seen a decent chunk of my online friends list with vrcplus icons on their social tiles, so at least in my corner of the world things sure seem to be going well

[dark harness]

they're going so well

[arctic elm]

yeah same, most of my friends have it

[dark harness]

NOTHING I BUILD EVER GOES THIS WELL don't jinx it

[arctic elm]

so, what would i have to do to get a special badge on my profile? like a pink donut with sprinkles because im an absolute donut

[weak musk]

Is anyone else experiencing hella lag?

[marble totem]

unable to join instances

[paper swift]

My friends list is empty, all that's showing is friend requests

[marble totem]

file xfers complete but stuck at lobby

[neon oracle]

Im gonna post this in #feature-requests as well but with the new icons I think it is long overdue to have this done and stop uneeded future bans https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/18-content-fixation

[vague nacelle]

Where is your help system? Paid for plus, got jack

[fierce briar]

awh man, i was really hoping to have GIFS for icons

[lament current]

yall should make anothe vrchat for kids

[vocal shard]

Rec room

[neon oracle]

@fierce briar https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-plus-feedback/p/gif-support-for-vrc-icons

[sly veldt]

[neon oracle]

please daddy ron

[fierce briar]

👍

[unreal verge]

My CPU just died...

PC is calling 99 before BIOS startup

[sharp saddle]

How old is it?

[sharp saddle]

Hi Worm!

[unreal verge]

@Artemus#0001 idk, it's not my pc. It's the one from my room mate.

Pinging doesn't work for some reason

[sharp saddle]

@unreal verge

[unreal verge]

@Artemus#0001 i just used it. Shut it down normally. Everything was alright. But wanted to start the PC again and now it doesn't turn on anymore and just displays a little 99 in the corner.

Yeah pinging is fucked.

Discord fucked the Android Alpha up again

[sharp saddle]

Alpha
You mean Canary?

[unreal verge]

No, it's called Alpha on Android

[tardy plaza]

Hello there I'm having some problems I paid for vrchat + and I don't think that's coming through on my end,

[arctic elm]

did you try restarting vrc and steam n stuff

[sharp saddle]

https://hello.vrchat.com/vrchat-plus-faq

[tardy plaza]

No I haven't restarted steam just yet should I do so?

[neon oracle]

and it kinda has u do two things, it first adds the funds to ur steam wallet then u gotta go in and authorize it as well. It looks like ur buying it twice but not rly. Itll say up next to ur name too if u only just got the funds like in ur steam wallet

[tardy plaza]

Ok

Okay guys let me go try that and if anything happens I'll let you know 🙂

[sharp saddle]

That's... nice?

[vocal shard]

[dawn gate]

If there's one thing I don't like, is that muscle memory is making me click the VRC+ button when I wanna click the Worlds button.

[mighty cradle]

okay so

[dawn gate]

it's gonna take some getting used to.

[sharp saddle]

Hopefully with the new UI they'll rearrange things.

[mighty cradle]

quick question for avatars: does anyone know where i can get anything posapocalyptic?

specifically, winter postapoc; think the sun exploded and the planet is plunged far below freezing type postapoc

[marsh stump]

There should be an option to hide if you have vrchat plus

I've already been targeted once

[sharp saddle]

Features. Require. Money.

[feral harbor]

whats the worse that can happen though? "ayo this dude got vrchat plus lmfao"

[sharp saddle]

If you were part of a dev company running on borrowed capital, would you break your back coding things in for free?

[unreal verge]

Crashers exist

[marsh stump]

Exactly

[feral harbor]

what the fuck? those still exist? well shit nvm then

[polar lichen]

To my knowledge there is a way to disable the badge. I don't know exactly how.

[mighty cradle]

crashers have always existed

[polar lichen]

but one of the chat mods said there would be a way to "hide" your plus status so you could avoid people specifically targeting you for supporting the game.

[mighty cradle]

and so long as vrc's sdk and other stuff is this easy to break, then they always will

[marsh stump]

Which is why I want to be able to hide it, I do not want people to know I have plus, I really only bought it for the extra avatars and do not want to be discriminated over it

[polar lichen]

which in itself is abso-fucking-lutely stupid.

[marsh stump]

Goes to show what communities have come to, they're gonna attack people who are supporting a game

[sly veldt]

you can set no icon

[marsh stump]

they're all like "lol youre paying for features you can get for free" Yeah by putting my account at ban risk

[sly veldt]

Just open the icon gallery and pic your three letter name

[half kayak]

anyone know how much vrchat avatars are going for rn? like asking ppl for a custom 1 to be made

[mighty cradle]

depends

[marsh stump]

No the icon also shows in social menu it shows a gold vrc plus logo

[mighty cradle]

better ones go for around ~100$+, i have noticed

[half kayak]

ah

[sly veldt]

@marsh stump yes. we understand. it's on a list of features to add. hang in there.

[sharp saddle]

How you doin', Ron? Haven't heard from you in awhile.

[mighty cradle]

honestly?

there's a lot more stuff to do and fix, and that includes using the remainder of the unityfs spec

[marsh stump]

Good to hear, as soon as the option comes out I'm enabling it

[mighty cradle]

and then for private avatars that should not be distributed, signing would be a really good move

[sly veldt]

@sharp saddle I'm good. Finally eating dinner after a pretty long day. How are you?

[feral harbor]

anyone know some good horror avatar worlds? not the screamer or jumpscare ones, just regular horror or cursed shit

[mighty cradle]

plus, considering vrchat's complete and total lack of security, i've been pondering making security oriented tools, backed by signing and a tor-only server, in order to fortify vrchat

[unreal verge]

Good thing i didn't buy VRC+. Probably will have to invest in new hardware since the PC doesn't turn on anymore since a few minutes and just throws error 99...

[sharp saddle]

Oh nice, enjoy your well-deserved dinner. I'm eating my late dinner as well.

[mighty cradle]

uhhh @unreal verge tried nuking the cmos, or corrupting it? corruption means running the computer without ram for a few seconds before unplugging it and adding one back in, seeing if that works; there's a table of ram sticks, timings, serials, slot locations, etc stored in cmos, and causing a mismatch here causes bioses, in their infinite stupid, to regenerate the entire cmos

i've encountered literally only one board where this did not actually work, and this will need an utility to specifically zero out the entirety of cmos

still looking for those postapoc avatars so uh

[unreal verge]

Will have to ask for permission from room mate. It's his PC.

I turned the PC off normally without any issues. Now that happens.

No crashes or anything.

[mighty cradle]

hmmm

still need those avatars

[frozen remnant]

anyone know if you can only teleport with the htc vive controllers? or can you move around like a joystick?

[jovial kestrel]

You can move around.

[sour wedge]

Hehe I found a bug with VRC+... xD

[mighty cradle]

i've been finding numerous bugs in vrc over the past several months

[unreal verge]

There are lots of bugs in the whole game

[proper stratus]

Hey guys quick vrc question. I like to walk around in the game with the camera out and ready to take a photo. Other users seem freaked out by this because they think I'm recording. Any way to hide the camera from others?

[mighty cradle]

nop

oh, besides that tho; one of my current bugs is a weird disconnect from vrchat

if i leave an instance while in this state, the game will remove any player/portal as if jumping worlds, but the screen will not go black and the game proceeds to softlock

because in this state, all input is disabled and i can do precisely nothing to bring up any menus whatsoever

pressing "go" on worlds will sometimes trigger this, but other times it does literally nothing; menu closes, but literally nothing happens

in this same state, any world on players in the social tab that i can see just says "image loading", but will never display it, nor their instance name, meaning i can never join them

i can receive invites and requests and whatnot else in this state, but i have noticed that invites will not show up on the menu

[proper stratus]

I've seen that too, only when I click "go" too quickly

Now I give the game plenty of time in between world jumps

[mighty cradle]

i mean the go in world selection; i got go on world enter disabled

avatars on pedestals, despite always requiring some time to establish the connection whether in this disconnect or not, still seem to load

this also does not appear to precede any incoming freeze or crash

[unreal verge]

People don't disable having to press go in loading screen?

[mighty cradle]

some don't, apparently

also, anything apparently past this first avatar i loaded seems to not load

favoriting avatars does nothing

and now after waiting a bit, avatars are loading again

[gloomy remnant]

god please add vrc+ users to safety menu god please please

[vocal shard]

Can they please fix there system im getting warned and i dont even talk nor use 3rd party apps

[mighty cradle]

sometimes, this disconnect can be dodged by waiting

[vocal shard]

can someone explain this???

[unreal verge]

@Johnny Cumquat#5624 what type of warning

Ok that's it. I'm gonna use replies now constantly

[ashen thistle]

Does anyone know when servers will be back up for Quest? Or is mine just having issues?

[unreal verge]

What type of warning

[mighty cradle]

also async loading when

[vocal shard]

it says moderation message and it says you will be kicked from the server

[neon oracle]

@gloomy remnant what does that help other than adding more discrimination in the game between users?

[vocal shard]

well instance not server

[gloomy remnant]

so i dont lag my ass off? from all the shaders? particles?

[unreal verge]

The host of the session kicked you out.

[vocal shard]

you're lying

[lusty briar]

what does that even mean, you already have safety settings through trust

[vocal shard]

Ok so they really do hate me haha 💀

[unreal verge]

No. If it says moderation kick the host is booting you out

[lusty briar]

vrc+ user isnt a trust rank

[gloomy remnant]

you cant put vrc+ users on the safety menu

[neon oracle]

@gloomy remnant that is why the current settings are there. Only having vrc+ users particles and stuff on seems a bit unfair, at that point you might as well turn everyone off and yea it isnt a rank

[ashen thistle]

Does anyone know when servers will be back up for Quest? Or is mine just having issues?

-sorry for reposting just wondering

[neon oracle]

thats like asking to add legendary rank to the safety menu

[gloomy remnant]

just easier to hide their avatars ig

[elfin matrix]

that would be nice

[neon oracle]

NO

[lusty briar]

if you hate vrc+ users so much (even though vrc+ has been out for one day) just block them

[unreal verge]

I hide every avatar from non-friends anyways

[gloomy remnant]

i have been.

[ashen thistle]

Please someone respond (ᗒᗣᗕ)՞

[lusty briar]

because apparently someone supporting vrchat enrages you

[elfin matrix]

most of my friends have vrc+ judging by social and i see plenty of icons in public worlds

[lusty briar]

my social menu shows the vrc+ icon on me but i dont have it

[mighty cradle]

why do you want to block vrc+ users only

[gloomy remnant]

nah the fact that im forced to see the full avatar annoys me

[lusty briar]

no you arent

[unreal verge]

Lol, barely any of my friends have it and a lot are refusing to buy it.

[neon oracle]

its that incentive telling u what u could have but dont xd

[unreal verge]

Why are you forced to see their avatars? I was in a public world and they also were grey robots for me.

[lusty briar]

vrc+ users dont have a safety settings bypass feature, that isnt how it works, it still follows your safety settings so thats on you

[vocal shard]

I am happy rn

[ashen thistle]

✨Excuse me✨
Does anyone know when servers will be back up for Quest? Or is mine just having issues?

[unreal verge]

Best is to hide every avatar from non-friends anyways.

[vocal shard]

i think its issues

[ashen thistle]

Please I just need to know ,_,

[gloomy remnant]

i have everything off for everyone lol

[lusty briar]

servers are universal across the games so idk might just be you unless servers are down for everyone

[unreal verge]

Idk. For me VRC+ users also are affected by my safety settings.

[elfin matrix]

i did see something amusing though. a friend i made the other day jumped from new user straight to known user when he got vrc+

[lusty briar]

does it really give that much trust

[neon oracle]

well now thats what u call, pay to win lol

[unreal verge]

It shouldn't

[elfin matrix]

it shouldn't, but i see plenty of people that have gone from trusted to veteran

[unreal verge]

If that's really the case, it's really bad.

[elfin matrix]

guess they had some secret achievement blocking them and this bypassed it

[sharp saddle]

How do you see Veteran? o__O

[unreal verge]

VRCX

A program you can install on your pc

Uses the API of the website

[elfin matrix]

just the api. you don't need an external program like that specifically

the ranks above trusted is useless, but i meant more the amount of trust gained from vrc+

[ashen thistle]

My vrchat keeps freezing as soon as it logs me in but my friends aren’t having this issue ;w;

[vocal shard]

I'm a veteran I'm pretty sure because I've been trusted for a few years now

[sharp saddle]

tfw only being Trusted for about a year.

[worthy oracle]

those ranks are just unfinished and not implemented

but i dont know, i got 'veteran' in the first 8 months i was playing the game

[sharp saddle]

I wonder what I am without resorting to using it?

[elfin matrix]

i got legendary, and for all i care they can turn off both that and veteran unless there's some future plan to use them

[forest rover]

how do i upload a avatar i just made from blender to vrchat?

[sharp saddle]

You have to reach New User then use Unity+VRCSDK to upload it.

[forest rover]

ok thanks

[elfin matrix]

there are many good youtube videos you can check

[dawn gate]

last time I asked around, someone told me the FBX format was best for avatars

[forest rover]

i know how to upload it but just not how to get it onto unity

[rotund gorge]

I just remembered why I don’t go to public worlds anymore

Especially black cat, lol. Feels like there’s a whole new wave of harassing trolls with VRC+

[elfin matrix]

spent a few hours there without issue earlier with the logo showing
had a couple people come up to me yelling something about wasting money, but that was it

[dawn gate]

oof

[turbid agate]

damn

[dawn gate]

good thing I'm antisocial af and haven't gone to public worlds in a good while

I wouldn't want to unwillingly get dragged into the shitfest

[elfin matrix]

i asked one to guess how many hours i had, and even though he guessed 10k which is a bit off the mark he did see my point as to why i might want to support something i've been using for free for so long

[worthy oracle]

[rotund gorge]

i never go to public worlds anymore only friends-friends+ with a close circle but i witnessed like 3 people who came in and just spouted racial slurs like crazy

Very original, comedy gold. all desktop users too

[forest rover]

why when i transfer my avatar to unity does it make the avatar completely gray?

[rotund gorge]

you have no materials with textures on them

[arctic elm]

yes you're instantly better than anyone who doesn't have it

[vocal shard]

VRC+ is simping for VRC. Nothing will get better from this. As I said from day 1, people have a new thing to be elitist about

[arctic elm]

also, vrc+ discord role when?

[vocal shard]

They're memeing most of the time, but they do point at you and ask jokingly: "Where is your Icon? :)"

[elfin matrix]

sounds like the same people that mute visitors by default while sitting in a public lobby at the mirror

[vocal shard]

day 1

[arctic elm]

i have everything but voice hidden on visitors because they're usually the trolls / ban dodgers, then show avatar if they're cool

[vocal shard]

Whatever @arctic elm These VRC+ users get boosted trust so they won't be that low rank nowadays

[unreal verge]

I've everything except voice hidden for everyone except friends

[arctic elm]

but theres been fewer annoying visitors recently so i might change that

[arctic elm]

yeah the boost is kinda dumb now that you cant see peoples rank from their nametag

i know a guy that literally yells at visitors for being visitors. i stopped talking to him

[elfin matrix]

the point of the boost is to allow anyone using vrc+ to upload content without being timegated by the system

[unreal verge]

I got yelled at for being a PCVR user from Quest users lol. I even use Oculus Link to connect to the PC.

[elfin matrix]

yelling is stupid, but i do get that they have a lesser experience since they can't see pc avatars
that's on them though

[vocal shard]

VRC is not helping inequality. It's horrible how they have done this. Better to allow a transparent donation system and not VRC+

[forest rover]

i have one last question. so i merged my steam and oculus acc onto a vrchat acc and it merged everything from steam correctly but from my oculus it only merged my friends and none of my avatars. how do i fix that?

[vocal shard]

@forest rover Sometimes it takes a while. When did you do this?

[forest rover]

like you could say two nights ago

[elfin matrix]

if you already have favorites on the vrchat account, it will ignore the ones from the account you're merging

[unreal verge]

I'll probably be a Quest user only soon too. PC broke and I'm too poor.

[arctic elm]

they need to make money, so allowing people to pay for cosmetic changes, or improving the game for those users seems fair to me. its not all about making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. just report and block the jerks

[forest rover]

it was a new vrchat acc. no favorites

[elfin matrix]

but you had favorites from steam right? so it wasn't empty by the time you did oculus

or am i misunderstanding? are you talking about two different vrchat accounts?

[sharp saddle]

You can't merge both Oculus and Steam into a single account.

It has to be either-or.

[elfin matrix]

It is possible for a single VRChat account to be linked to a Steam account, an Oculus account, and a Viveport account at the same time.

[sharp saddle]

Really? I thought it was an either-or thing.

[vocal shard]

@arctic elm It's all but a cosmetic change. It's making an unequal playing field. It's like an MMO with options for faster leveling, more item slots and more respect. Since VRChat is a social game, this is "Pay to win" no matter how you look at it

[elfin matrix]

https://help.vrchat.com/kb/article/24-i-want-to-turn-my-steam-oculus-account-into-a-vrchat-account/
according to this at least

[vocal shard]

Discrimination is in human nature. People with VRC+ will feel superior now

[worthy oracle]

@vocal shard dude literally go in game and no one cares about it doe

[sharp saddle]

Please note: If you have favorite avatars or worlds on the VRChat account that you are linking another account to, the merge will ignore the favorites on the Steam/Oculus/Viveport account.

[vocal shard]

They don't buy it to support, just to get a boost over others

[forest rover]

ok so i made one vr chat acc and i merged my steam and oculus into it and it did all the steam avatars but i had ones on my oculus that my steam didnt have and it didnt merge them into the acc

[arctic elm]

sounds like you're projecting a bit :P

[waxen citrus]

Yadda yadda, it's been done in other social platforms before VRChat. Nothing new.

[unreal verge]

Lol it's a bit of wasting money. It's the same price as Discord Nitro but with way less features.

[elfin matrix]

it doesn't matter if they weren't the same. if you had any favorites at all on the account, the ones from oculus wouldn't be merged

[vocal shard]

@waxen citrus Moot arguments, concentration camps were done in other societiess before X, "Nothing new". Doesn't make the action good for the platform or market in general

[devout berry]

Just wait after the early period ends. I fear that those with early supporter badge might feel even more superior above everyone, even the supporters...

[forest rover]

well dang then. i lost a good amount of avatars then

[vocal shard]

damn, that comparision had 0 chill to it, duuuude xDD

[sharp saddle]

I have Early Supporter badge on my Discord account, I don't feel superior to anyone.

[waxen citrus]

Apples to oranges, they need money and they never claimed to be a non profit.

[golden scaffold]

You probably need to surround yourself with better people.

[waxen citrus]

They need to fix stuff, but those servers ain't free.

[unreal verge]

Yeah same. It gets a bit annoying. People constantly beg to buy my account.

[golden scaffold]

That doesn't sound like the right kind of thing for anyone to see you as

[arctic elm]

howdy spark

[golden scaffold]

heya

[sharp saddle]

... Seriously?

[unreal verge]

Yep, some are offering thousands

[vocal shard]

Moot arguments. There are much better ways to gain funds. People had no way to support VRC. Instantly going for this is a cash grab.

[sharp saddle]

[vocal shard]

🤣

[deft girder]

Wait people are actually buying early supporter discord accounts?

[devout berry]

Yeah, but there are always a few bad apples in the basket. Someone will definitely do it...

[sharp saddle]

Then they are assholes, plain and simple.

[unreal verge]

People buy a lot of they've too much money

[devout berry]

Exactly.

[deft girder]

Well certainly this is just the first I'm hearing about this 😅

[golden scaffold]

A cash grab would be putting VRChat behind a paywall to access. This isn't that.

[forest rover]

so then why did the favorites i had on steam merge?

[arctic elm]

ive had someone ask to buy my account for it lmao

[celest lion]

dam

[elfin matrix]

adding cosmetic incentives is a proven way to get someone to buy something
there aren't many other ways that pretty much guarantees you will get some money out of it

[celest lion]

it is chaos in here xD

[sharp saddle]

You guys are getting offers?! o__O

[rotund gorge]

They have to gain money support somehow. They aren’t holding you at gunpoint to buy it. If you think you’re a superior person for buying VRC+, there might be something a little wrong with your mindset. It’s a way to support, and it will and somehow has turned into a social thing.

[unreal verge]

I already had to get really restrictive with my Discord account. No one can send me friend requests anymore or DM me.

Otherwise people will ask daily to buy my account

[celest lion]

may i say vrc has paired with htc for a $10 mill contract btw

[rotund gorge]

Hosting servers isn’t free, development isn’t free.

[sharp saddle]

Any specific servers they're in?

[sharp saddle]

In. Vest. Ment. Not a contract.

[unreal verge]

Discord Testers. Unfortunately I've a higher role there than the majority..

[devout berry]

Looks like some people think of the badge as of a limited thing they need in their collection... Collectors are trying to get their hands on them already.

[celest lion]

still made 10 mill :/

[waxen citrus]

They weren't donations.

[vocal shard]

That wasnt their money so they didnt make it.

[arctic elm]

i guess ill make a second vrc account and get vrc+ and sell that account in a few years lmao

[celest lion]

https://medium.com/vrchat/vrchat-partners-with-htc-and-makers-fund-to-close-10m-series-c-50ea04d5ca23

[vocal shard]

There are ways to monetize the platform without promoting inequality

[elfin matrix]

because at that point the vrchat account was empty, with no favorites, yes?

[celest lion]

from them themselfs

[vocal shard]

Making it easy to purchase avatars would be a start and earns far more money without promoting direct inequality

[sharp saddle]

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/trading-investing/series-c-financing/

[unreal verge]

One guy even offered more money after i denied. He already wanted to pay $1000 for my Discord

[forest rover]

yea

[elfin matrix]

that's basically it. if you had merged oculus first, your steam favorites wouldn't have merged instead

[devout berry]

Wow! All this only for a Discord badge?!

[golden scaffold]

The interaction of selling an avatar is far, far, far, far more complicated than you might think.

[forest rover]

thats dumb in my opinion

[vocal shard]

@golden scaffold Enlighten us

[elfin matrix]

probably not something they did on purpose, but rather a technical limitation, not wanting to cause conflicts

[unreal verge]

Apparently

[waxen citrus]

It's already done outside of the game and you do get the files insted of it being only unlocked ingame.

I agree that couldn't work inside the platform.

[forest rover]

is there a way i can find those avatars like in my files or somthing? there not public so if not then ive lost a good ammoung of avatars

[unreal verge]

A friend made me my own avatar, he uploaded it to my account

[celest lion]

:kekw:

[sharp saddle]

[vocal shard]

That could definitely work inside the platform. You don't know what you're talking about @waxen citrus and @golden scaffold

[elfin matrix]

they would have to have been public, no? you just mean not in avatar worlds? in any case, no

[golden scaffold]

That's a marketplace system that we hope to have one day, but that's an entirely different feature than some of the perks you're getting through VRChat Plus.

[golden scaffold]

I never implied it couldn't work inside the platform. 🙂

[forest rover]

well that sucks. thanks for helping

[elfin matrix]

hopefully you'll run into them again, and at least now you have more slots to use for when you do

[golden scaffold]

[forest rover]

its 12:38 am right now. 😑 im gonna go to bed. good night everyone

[unreal verge]

I've a very good friend. My PC broke down and now he wants to send me one older PC from him to me.

[sharp saddle]

Question: is the "Early Supporter" badge the VRCat icon?

[golden scaffold]

Yes.

[unreal verge]

So i can continue to play VRChat

[sharp saddle]

[arctic elm]

am i allowed to put lewds on my nametag icon lmao

[unreal verge]

Probably not

[golden scaffold]

TOS applies as always.

[unreal verge]

I'll probably block anyone who does that. I don't like nsfw really.

[sharp saddle]

I'm tempted to get VRC+ just to put my Padoru pic on my nametag.

[arctic elm]

so dont get caught is what im hearing :P

[elfin matrix]

seeing as nudity is one of the icon report options, i'd say not at all

[waxen citrus]

I don't know, there's already plenty of avatars in sites like booth and gumroad so I dobut much people would actually use it.

[golden scaffold]

They certainly would use it.

[devout berry]

ToS... The one thing people that know me well hate to hear about when near me, because I am able to start citing whole sections of it to bash them when they violate some part of it. 🤣
And that applies even for accidental violations.

[waxen citrus]

Eh maybe, would be interesting to see how it would work out

[vocal shard]

@waxen citrus Most consumers want ease of use. Lower that barrier and people will buy. That's what they pay for. Ease of use. It would also help if it's easy to customize (recolor) certain parts. Same like Chromas in certain games. The moment people need unity and read instructions (and translate those from japanese). that's the moment they give up. The current barrier for many good avatars is just too high.

[golden scaffold]

becoming a dev should require you to memorize every single word of the TOS by heart

[waxen citrus]

Could be, but don't expect to be able to fully customize a model without actually having the files.

[sharp saddle]

I pledge allegience to the TOS of VRChat, and to the users for which we serve, one client, under Tupper, indivisible, with memes and Canny for all.

[vocal shard]

@waxen citrus That's a moot point. You can give people a simple download button for the avatars they buy on the site. Nothing different. This just makes it easy for new/inexperienced users to buy and use avatars

[arctic elm]

[deft girder]

[golden scaffold]

[lusty briar]

[golden scaffold]

I added it earlier!

[arctic elm]

[deft girder]

Squid is the original vrcat

[sharp saddle]

[vocal shard]

[arctic elm]

i want that loud vrc+ dipscord role

[golden scaffold]

I keep telling people this! If you think I'm afk, I'm probably just spamming the cat instead

[vocal shard]

pfffft xD

[arctic elm]

you are so purrrrty

[sharp saddle]

What a catastrophe.

[vocal shard]

Down Pepper, down.

[lusty briar]

as long as you dont append an e onto that rp

[arctic elm]

i see nothing wrong with this

[waxen citrus]

That could work actually, but I'm sure that you would still need unity if you want to change it to your liking as I dobut they would change the current system. (And personally I have found ingame editors from a certain other platform to be more complicated than learning a little unity)

[lusty briar]

vrdog is the late supporters badge

[waxen citrus]

That's just me thought who knows.

[night iris]

probably! but gotta find model artists elsewhere than here i think

shop around, widen your horizons. c:

[vocal shard]

Vrcat+ Dating simulator

[devout berry]

Might happen, cuz people really make dating sims on everything... Even KFC made one as publicity stunt.

[vocal shard]

Ik its pretty great when it happens

[solid bridge]

I don't think that would work for texture recoloring, which is what you usually want to do to recolor a model

[night iris]

i mean hey, people do what makes them happy right?

[rigid parcel]

dude

what is this new nameplates

[vocal shard]

Texture recoloring is the easiest part, ugh.... It's literally just images with parts that you make different colors.

[arctic elm]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/bring-back-trust-rank-on-nametag

[rigid parcel]

they look horrible

[devout berry]

1st part of long in the works UI update...

[solid bridge]

I didn't like them much at first, but honestly, they're not that bad

[rigid parcel]

i know about the update but i didn't think that it would look like this bad

[gleaming kraken]

its really hard to spot my friends from a distance. especially since avatars have been taking absolute ages to load today

[sharp saddle]

They were on display since the announcement, you know, in image form.

[devout berry]

There are 2 sides of the coin - hiding the rank deeper in the menus could slow down the first moment elitism, because those who do it can't just look at the plate color and bully immediately for being higher.

[arctic elm]

i only see hate against visitors tbh

[golden scaffold]

It's a complicated (and annoying) issue, but luckily we're on track to getting things fixed there.

[gleaming kraken]

theres hate against trusted users because of the stigma around them. mirror sitters, visitor bulliers, very poor avatars. we arent all like that but because of the minority the whole rank is made fun of.

[arctic elm]

no

[gleaming kraken]

no..?

[golden scaffold]

Nope, not true.

[arctic elm]

they already have 250+ hours then

[gleaming kraken]

it gives you a trust boost which supposedly makes you rank up faster. even though one of the devs said earlier it was negligible so whats the point..

[golden scaffold]

It is definitely minor.

[devout berry]

I think he bumps the "hidden" rank levels...

[arctic elm]

not that trust matters now ;)

[deft girder]

Trust matters for the things it was meant to still

[golden scaffold]

Sure it does! The Safety System is dictated by Trust.

[arctic elm]

im teasing

[inland knot]

can we also get a regular vrc+cat emote here?

[golden scaffold]

I'll look into that

[inland knot]

the silly cat is so cute

and it roars ingame too

[gleaming kraken]

one of the few things ive even enjoyed about the update today is the little cat button on the menu

[hazy quail]

is vrchat+ a subscribtion thing, eg i pay one month and the 100fave avatars will only be for 1 month?

[rain cedar]

Prolly

[gleaming kraken]

mhm

[hazy quail]

meh

[gleaming kraken]

apparently they go into "limbo" once you stop paying... whatever that means

[devout berry]

Yep. 10 bucks/month or 99 bucks a year.

[gleaming kraken]

i assume they are still saved but not usable

[hazy quail]

well that sucks

[vocal shard]

Saved but you can only remove (im guessing)

[arctic elm]

oh yeah @golden scaffold do you think it'd be likely we get a vrc+ discord role?

[gleaming kraken]

yeah certainly

[hazy quail]

doesnt seem worth it then

[gleaming kraken]

it really doesnt seem like it

[sharp saddle]

I can see that fueling the classism. 👀

[devout berry]

Tupper was asked this yesterday... They don't have a way to sync the game here rn..

[arctic elm]

s h h, thats the idea :3

[gleaming kraken]

not helping...

[sharp saddle]

[golden scaffold]

I don't think so, but that's not a decision, just my current take. We don't have a way to sync some information there either, afaik.

[silver helm]

they have discord rich presence, pretty sure they can do it

[arctic elm]

system is a smart guy im sure he could figure it out!

[inland knot]

its more the problem that discord barely supports such thing

[devout berry]

Only way I can see is to make VRC webpage ask you for your Discord tag, make the API send it together with your game sub state to the VRC Bot to manage the role.

Or you can make it Discord linkable...

[inland knot]

without writing an entire new bot

[arctic elm]

discord def supports it, they have stuff like that for patreon or twitch

[inland knot]

.

[arctic elm]

dont recall if you need a bot for it

[deft girder]

Patreon bot barely works as it is so that's not a good example

[inland knot]

You definitely need a bot for that lol

[devout berry]

I think that Patreon is a linkable account...

[deft girder]

Patreon is a linkable account yes but you still need to bot to grant the roles

[arctic elm]

yeah theres a twitch integration, so no bot needed. in this case yeah probably need a bot

[deft girder]

Which is horribly horribly bad

[arctic elm]

afaik^, i could be wrong

[inland knot]

you dont have programming/development experience i presume?

[arctic elm]

good thing we have @floral flax , such a good boy...