So it's game not a vr social world environment?
#vrchat-general-2
sage cliff
faint skiff
Took me about 3 days, if that, which was surprising.
@sage cliff It's technically both. It's a game that is a social environment.
sage cliff
Ive been in for at least 20 hours and love exploring.
covert blade
@faint skiff I was a mute desktop player half that time
tawny ore
I got upload permissions in like 2 days XD But I also sat online for hours on end
faint skiff
You're probably not far off it then to be honest. 40 hours was being conservative. It's more around 20-30 in reality.
covert blade
I think mine was around 20-30hours
faint skiff
@covert blade Oh as I call them... "ghosts"
tawny ore
30 sounds about right
faint skiff
Can't talk, can't gesture, can't really interact. I would have gone mad.
covert blade
I was just a Vroomba
tawny ore
Enverex you say that, but even doing all of the above; one can still go mad easily (with the wrong safety settings)
faint skiff
You have to turn off personal space in VR anyway, otherwise how will the cute traps molest my face?
sage cliff
With all due respect, there needs to be somthing in place to help fast track organizations that want to help promote the platform. If Nintendo(for example) wants presence in vrchat, they can't be told to play it for 40+ hours first. Lol
faint skiff
@sage cliff There would be, for Nintendo. You're not Nintendo.
sage cliff
It was an example
faint skiff
"Some random" doesn't have any legitimate clout.
sage cliff
An unknown here! Did we miss that I represent 800+ vr users?
Im trying to promote vrchat to them.
covert blade
To VRC, you're unknown
sage cliff
...
rigid crescent
Have you emailed them?
faint skiff
You don't represent anything. You sound like a "social media influencer" which in realistic terms means you're all talk and no substance.
Unless you can prove worth, then people won't be interested.
rigid crescent
Because if Nintendo wants presence in VRChat the first thing they'd do is set up a correspondence with the developers not come into the discord lol
sage cliff
Thank you Mic!! That's a great idea
faint skiff
@sage cliff They have a ticket system if you can't find a relevant email address.
sage cliff
Thank you Enverex. That's helpful aswell.
covert blade
I wonder why you haven't thought about contacting the developers instead of flaming the system in a pub discord
tawny ore
Guidance is using mobile discord; sounds legit.
sage cliff
Lol.. wow.. thanks for the help.
tawny ore
And your typing speed via a phone tells me you don't use touchscreens a whole lot either.
This means you ain't influencing anything outside of yourself.
covert blade
If I allow all avatar features on one player, that setting saves even if we leave the game and come back right?
faint skiff
I believe so
covert blade
That's not good
faint skiff
Not really, typically if you allow someone (by overriding the safety settings) you don't want to automatically unoverride them else you'll have to keep doing it.
covert blade
But it also means I cant unoverride it in case they decide to spam shaders
Why's there no menu listing all the blocked / muted / avatar hidden and shown users?
faint skiff
Just undo what you did, select them again, set their avatar back to "Safety settings". It is annoying that you can't get to that screen from Social though
Yeah, I agree. Second Life handled this all much better.
It would have a table you could see where is would show who's in the room, if they are currently broadcasting audio and how loud it was, etc. All "at a glance".
Very handy if something goes wrong.
As it stands, you can't even access someone's safety settings from the Social tab, it just takes you to the big board page to friend them and shows their picture. You can't turn their voice on/off or avatar on/off. So if someone's doing something bad, even if you know who it is, you can't do anything about it unless you can physically select their avatar.
covert blade
Good luck if its a tiny avatar
faint skiff
Exactly. And in a wall or something.
snow wadi
You can, however, block said user outright.
faint skiff
Also, is anyone not recording everything everyone's doing in VRChat and posting it to Twitch/YouTube? I wonder if they realise just how creepy that is...
faint skiff
Enough are for it to seem prevalent though.
rigid crescent
I mean yeah, because VRChat videos will come up when you type in VRChat or VR most of the time lol
so of course you'll see them
faint skiff
The vrchat subreddit is my main reference point for them to be honest.
tawny ore
There's also the situations where they have a fullscreen overlay thing going on with blur all over the place - making it impossible to use UI in VR
rigid crescent
The place where streamers and youtubers that do VRChat go to post their videos, so yeah....you'll see them there lol
you can go into any given room and, for the most part, no one is recording anything lol
tranquil cobalt
I haven't run into it too much, but I guess it's hard to know when someone is streaming/recording so maybe I have. It's too bad we don't have an icon or some method of knowing when someone is, but I could see how there'd be implications for the streamers if we had that as well
rigid crescent
a few do for reporting purposes, or might have shadowplay, but the vast, vast majority of users arent
yeah that'd just be a fat target
tranquil cobalt
Do streamers use aliases and shit in VRChat / are they still a target via their name? I'm ignorant to what goes on in that world
faint skiff
Better than being secretly recorded to be honest
rigid crescent
No, no it's not better lol
faint skiff
Yes, yes it is. If they want to stream, that's on them. People shouldn't have to be an unwilling participant in their broadcasted charades.
rigid crescent
And yeah streamers usually just use their main account, I don't know of any that use an lias or something
and most people aren't unwilling participants, sooo
Making users targets for harassment isn't an improvement.
faint skiff
Er, yes they are? How do you figure they're "willing" unless they're following the streamer around?
rigid crescent
Especially since a lot of bigger ones are already targets enough.
because a lot of these interactions take place in places with friends
You have no expectation of privacy outside of a private world.
Just like you shouldn't expect it playing Overwatch, Minecraft, or anything else in a public setting
faint skiff
There's a difference between expectation of privacy and just being dragged into streamer nonsense.
rigid crescent
how are you being "dragged" into it?
The only time I see people even complain is when they're worried about being streamed, never "omg i was streamed!"
faint skiff
You're clearly not going to think any of this through and are just happy for them to do what they're doing. If you don't want to empathise then fine.
tranquil cobalt
I imagine there's a lot of streamers (who aren't like big streamers) streaming in-game so I suppose with an icon or something, it'd fuzz out. People would def be extra to people they see streaming tho
rigid crescent
again, what are you being dragged into?
I mean at any given timethere's a few dozen at best
The odds of you being streamed in a public room are fairly low, even lower chance of being on a stream with views, significant or otherwise
tranquil cobalt
Maybe VRChat can detect a live streamer, but not display it. Users who opt-out of wanting to be featured in recordings/streams could be auto-hidden for users who are streaming.
faint skiff
Well firstly many of the "no-name" streamers try and make the entire environment about them, so that's the dragging part. The second part would be just passive conversations and such. I'm not talking "secretive" conversations, but would you be happy that IRL anything you said to anyone that day may now be in a video for everyone to see?
rigid crescent
Would I be happy? No. Would I be unhappy? Also no. That's how life is anyway outside of your home, which VR is obviously a bit of a gray area for. You're "in" a public area, unless of course you're in a private room
Any conversation I have on the street could be recorded by a guy making a video of the eiffel tower or some shit
faint skiff
You're ignoring the issue here. People overhearing is fine. They don't care, no-one will care then, it'll almost certainly be forgotten by anyone around you even if they did overhear. BUT, if it's caught in a video, it's now going to be around for, well basically forever at this point.
rigid crescent
it's just not as big of an issue as you make it out to be, definitely not one that warrants any action
I can probably appear on 10 different streams talking shit about a random user and odds are literally no one would care nor would the person find out unless they're a somewhat well known person
It's really that little of an issue
I could pop into 5 streams and, off to the side, have a conversation about THIS conversation, and you would literally never know about it, nor would anyone else
faint skiff
Until in 10 years time, some mundane shit you said offends someone, someone else stumbles over that video and now it's an issue.
tranquil cobalt
I can get the apprehension in a culture where things you've said in the past when you're young + dumb can come back to haunt you at the same time.
faint skiff
Exactly
rigid crescent
That sounds like some real tinfoil hat shit
tranquil cobalt
Bruh, you been on Twitter?
faint skiff
Then you've clearly not been paying attention to anything happening around you for years.
tranquil cobalt
no I'm joking
rigid crescent
the situations that those things happen, like the GOTG director
he said that shit in a public forum, front and center
you're talking about some BS side conversation that someone mgiht not even know YOURE HAVING
ornate finch
it isn't really far fetched but unlikely yeah
rigid crescent
It is in this context.
ornate finch
even if you guys disagree on that point he made other points
rigid crescent
If tihs were Twitter, Youtube vlogging, etc sure
But the example you used is literally a conversation on the side being overheard enough to, one day, somehow, be tracked down to you
In all these examples of this "well they were young and dumb" occurance, the person was always front and center, subject of the video, tweet, forum post, etc
tranquil cobalt
I do believe there's a dialogue we gotta have re: reasonable expectation of privacy in social VR spaces before it becomes seen as a social platform vs a game.
faint skiff
Well I mean people's names are literally above their head in large, bright letters.
rigid crescent
never "dude i heard george clooney say the n-word in a side conversation in a video i took while recording a cool public fountain"
OK, so now you're hoping the streamer looked at you and was looking at you the entire length of the conversation where you, possibly, said a bad thing
you see how ridiculously unlikely this is? Is it possible? Sure, anything is technically possible within reason, but the likelyhood of a thing like that ever happening is so little that this entire conversation couldve occurred ingame, off to the side where some dude is streaming his cool particle memes, and no one would ever know about it
tranquil cobalt
I honestly get both sides. Plus to be fair, with the surge of deep fakes of politicians, etc. - every video/audio clip you could see in the future might as well have baked in deniability
umbral reef
Imo streaming in friends+ rooms without telling peeps is dumb
With friends or friends of friends you can be a bit more expected to have privacy stuff
In public you have 0 reason for privacy as anyone and everyone can be listening anyway.
For friends or private rooms its just not nice to do unless people find it owkay
faint skiff
We've already covered how there's a difference between overhearing something, and recording+publishing it.
umbral reef
Think of it like outdoors, inside a public building and in a locked room.
To the core yes, but maybe im a mod and me overhearing stuff is also clap worthy ๐คท
faint skiff
I don't care if someone overhears me in the street. I would however, not be all that happy if they were recording me and then putting it on YouTube.
There's a big difference between the two.
umbral reef
Thats you not wanting to share stuff
inner cape
what if you didnt know you were being recorded and say something that you otherwise wouldn't
umbral reef
but its totally unrealistic to expect people to change to your needs in public
Maybe dont say dumb shit unless your in private?
faint skiff
Welcome to fucking 1984
final zodiac
Lol
final zodiac
I wouldn't mind personally
faint skiff
"you're actions are being recorded for future testing purposes"
final zodiac
Usually if the conversation is about something personal I ask the other person if they're streaming. If they are, I don't do it
Other way around has happened too. I've been asked if I was streaming
umbral reef
Again your now attacking something else then what we spoke about and using a slippery slope to argue your standpoint
amber cloak
guys is it weird to use text to speech? i'm afraid to show my voice
inner cape
tbh if you're gonna speak about something personal it means you already know the person well and if they record/stream or not
faint skiff
Here's an example. Taking the "6 degrees of separation" theory into account. A lot of guys I know in VRC are gay, but "closeted". It could easily get back to family or friends from all the people streaming/recording random stuff, from either overheard conversations or physical interactions.
inner cape
text to speech can get a lil annoying unless used right, you should get out of your comfort zone and start speaking sometime. @amber cloak
tawny ore
I don't know what would compel anyone to say "something they normally wouldn't"
I don't understand how people have such language variance. Mine is the same regardless of situation - and none of what I say whenever - do I ever see as regrettable.
amber cloak
but im afraid people will not like my voice
umbral reef
Bruh- Your legit pulling up randomg shit now
Gonna talk to others about it but not worthy talking to you about this if you give arguments like that
tawny ore
Lyneo that's in your head. Get rid of that notion.
still lark
No one really cares about your voice. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
faint skiff
@umbral reef What? That was a legitimate, fair example of how it could literally ruin someone's life.
inner cape
you'll do good!
tawny ore
Lyneo - think about this: You hear people speak every day - how many times have you specifically zoned in on someones voice?
Likely 0 or 1 at most... which means - nobody is checking/sampling your voice for 'this voice is nice'
umbral reef
Its not anyting close to relevant to what we just talked about
You can also do that without any recording and something said to a friend is said in trust, something said in a public room where streaming is and should be fine as to my first msg
final zodiac
I know a guy who uses a (surprisingly convincing) voice changer because he doesn't like his own voice. Only got to ask him to show me like after 3 months lol
and his real voice was fine
tranquil cobalt
Still think the happy middle ground is to have VRChat hide people who opt-out of being recorded/streamed to streamers when they're streaming (without displaying that the streamer is streaming). Always would be ways around it, and it's not NEEDED if we define VR spaces as a public venue - but it might be a nice courtesy thing for privacy-focused people.
still lark
Ways around it by just not announcing. xd
umbral reef
Lets argue this then. How will they do this without it being fool proof as you want it to be foolproof
And what if i record for reporting reasons like some do? Also not allowed? How can we report toxic people then?
inner cape
then there is a problem of people trying to get you banned if you have a tag saying you're streaming
tawny ore
If a streamer enters the room - send a UI notification to participants within x room (and auto-mute the mic(?))
inner cape
just don't be popular 4Head
tranquil cobalt
I don't think we need it fool-proof. Linking to Twitch, etc if someone wants a special streamer tag might be enough of an incentive for streamers to link. You can have the streamer choose whether or not they want to display they're streaming or not, but have the option for all users that they can be excluded from streams
umbral reef
Thats the case RN ghosto
If any streamer gets annoucned its ez
faint skiff
@umbral reef Have I missed something? It's exactly on topic. I was talking about things you may be doing or talking about, which somehow end up coming back to screw you later due to them having been recorded (typically by a streamer due to how obsessed everyone is with putting videos up of this on YouTube these days).
umbral reef
@tranquil cobalt Then all people who want to record for evil reasons are totally free to do so while poeple have a false sense of being secure
tranquil cobalt
People could still just record and post to YouTube, of course. It's just a QoL courtesy thing for privacy-minded folks
Whatchu mean?
faint skiff
If I thought that I was being recorded at all times in VRChat, I'd probably never fucking speak or even use an avatar again, to be honest.
tawny ore
Oh then this one is easy! You're all potatoes.
Just like discord reacts to people having OBS/Xsplit e.t.c. open - have VRChat do the same.
in the options menu for everyone: "Broadcast my microphone to streamers" - yay or nay
Then your mic isn't sent to the world - only to the non-streamy humans.
tranquil cobalt
Yus! That's what I'm getting at, but probably failing at explaining!
umbral reef
You realize discord also loggs everything, facebook knows what website you visit for how long, your ISP knows all this info to and the odds of someone recording what you say is so scarry you wont use a platform?
faint skiff
Random people don't have access to discord logs.
tranquil cobalt
I'm actually streaming this chat on Twitch rn
tawny ore
And ISP don't randomly go through peoples history
tranquil cobalt
Say Hi World!
faint skiff
And they're not put out there for the purpose of specifically being seen
tranquil cobalt
No I'm messing with you
umbral reef
@faint skiff Just like the google home listening into your house is not 'public' but it is
faint skiff
And yes, unsurprisingly random people don't have access to my fucking ISP's deep packet inspection logs, you disingenuous ass.
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.
umbral reef
Its not hard to get most of that info or legit get your pc to give it to you
Security is a joke unless you actively work to make it good for yourself
Ow im stawmanning for sure
But not everyone has acess to all streams or watches all streams
faint skiff
I work for a datacentre which was historically also an ISP. You're talking shit.
They're so far from being accurate strawmen that they're literally just grass.
umbral reef
So my isp cant and does not monitor my DNS requests that they process and have not monitored people for that in here? Guess my laws are wrong and the courtcases info also lol
faint skiff
Well nice attempt at derailment, but I'm going to bring this discussion back on topic now.
inner cape
yuck
covert blade
So what's the issue exactly?
faint skiff
Think of it this way, you're with mates in the pub sat around the table, that's roughly what it's like when there's a few of you stood there in VRChat. At the next table, there's a few more people, but also a camera crew that you can't see. Would you be happy with your pub escapades being saved and broadcast for everyone to see?
umbral reef
I explain how they do it and its deraling mkay
But if you say stuff like your gay to people that you trust your already praying they wont snitch it further.
If its being recorded or not.
Having a voluntary tag gives people a false sense of security like with loads of VRC systems and makes it easier to target people. A forced tag is too easy to bypass.
faint skiff
I'm pretty sure if most people were sat in a bar with a camera crew sat at the table next to them (with them in shot) that they'd suddenly become a lot more quiet.
covert blade
I simply dont share private information in public places @faint skiff
Idc if I'm being recorded. No one knows me
umbral reef
So dont say stuff around people you do not trust, anyone can record anything or stream. Its your option to say stuff around people or not. They should not change because you want them to
faint skiff
I get it, clearly I'm in the wrong and a moron. Forget I said anything.
covert blade
I will
inner cape
this argument is pointless as it's not gonna change anything and there will always be a possibility of being recorded/streamed
umbral reef
You can trust people but know the person first before you say dumb shit to them
mighty sapphire
Where are you mason?
tawny ore
Or how about - Everyone just behave reasonably in public rooms? I mean.... Is it that hard to rein in your intolerance?
covert blade
@mighty sapphire uhh what do ya mean? I'm in my car atm if you mean that. Going home soon
inner cape
yes
mighty sapphire
I mean in game but nvm.
faint skiff
@tawny ore I was wondering how long someone would jump to that conclusion. That WASN'T what I was referring to.
I even provided examples, but no, fuck it. And fuck you all.
mighty sapphire
k.
tawny ore
Lol I found it difficult to follow this train of thought that we were on. It just seemed to look for an edge on either end and felt vastly over-thought
faint skiff
When everyone's trying to be as disingenuous and misunderstanding about it as possible? No, not really because it's infuriating.
tranquil cobalt
@tawny ore I dunno the reason why Enverex was asking, but when I considered his argument I thought of kids being dumb in their youth who grow up but then a video of them being dumb comes back to haunt them
covert blade
The moment this conversation becomes just insults, it doesnt belong here anymore tbh
Feel free to disagree
still lark
Several people are typing...
faint skiff
@tranquil cobalt That was my primary concern. Other things were issues that people didn't want family to know about, etc. Just a bunch of things. It's not hard to think up what they may be.
tawny ore
Ooohhh! That makes more sense. Unfortunately that goes way beyond just VRChat - Kids these days are on internet a lot. So all their tantrums and outrages will be stored somewhere. And unfortunately that may require a new type of service to spring up - to wipe the record of their actions.
final zodiac
Yeah, just assume what you're saying is being watched and listened to (which it is), so behave 
vestal pier
I think legally you can have every trace of you wiped from the Internet I remember watching a vid about it
faint skiff
EU "Right to Forget"
vestal pier
Yes
glossy wharf
Oh boy this is great ๐ฟ
tranquil cobalt
Not in the states (afaik) ๐ฆ
tawny ore
@glossy wharf I like your style.
umbral reef
@faint skiff That does not apply to loads of cases
tawny ore
But I think we've finally synchronized on a wavelength
glossy wharf
He has no style, he has no grace, this monkey has a funny face
inner cape
glossy wharf
Its very enjoyable just watching one of these instead of being part of them ghosto
Because as we know, network security and audio are handled by the same person.
vestal pier
2FA was actually rolled out last night
tawny ore
VRChat has the 'key' role - giving tools to stop transmission of users voice to users with a livestream
OR
VRChat update their guidelines to alert people that - It's difficult to track who is recording/streaming. -> Should a video of oneself surface on a site, one should turn to x site for removal.
vestal pier
So security is going good
pastel galleon
Well the current audio is super scuffed
glossy wharf
Theres totally not different parts in a game dev company with different areas.
umbral reef
@brisk bone A roadmap can always change
Doesnt make it not a roadmap
glossy wharf
Funny j o k e
vestal pier
Jokes aside he is mostly right, afaik they all mostly do everything
glossy wharf
They dont, look at their website
They hire for specific areas.
Security and platform are strictly separate.
umbral reef
Sai dont lie :^)
glossy wharf
Lac, shush
covert blade
How do they even manage to fund themselves if the game is 100% free? Do they just work on VRC in their freetime?
glossy wharf
Funding rounds
vestal pier
That's fair, I thought the current people were jacks of all
glossy wharf
VRChat funding > https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/vrchat
covert blade
Ah I see
glossy wharf
There has been, its not documented.
tranquil cobalt
Yeah, I was under the impression that it was a bunch of vry skilled/talented generalists
tranquil cobalt
VRChat's got the high ground on all other Social VR spaces when it comes to player base. As long as they keep absorbing in more players (and surely Quest has helped), there's just no competition. Money-aside, no reason for them not to go at it!
vestal pier
Why would they jeopardize their entire app for one platform, the negative response to the quest was profound
glossy wharf
I mean the community responds negatively to literally anything.
vestal pier
Last I checked the trust system didn't break a major part of the game
glossy wharf
The game is in EA, nothing is set in stone.
You know just as well as me how fast they ditch something they worked on
pastel galleon
Yeah but a lot of cannys are simply ignored by devs for years
rigid crescent
most of the community is stupid, tech illiterate, and reactionary
vestal pier
They go unseen
rigid crescent
and thats a user issue tbh
glossy wharf
That shit gets mixed up in here all the time
vestal pier
For real?
glossy wharf
Mostly cause of what mic said
"most of the community is stupid, tech illiterate, and reactionary"
is a pretty valid statement.
vestal pier
U ain't wrong
rigid crescent
i guess since i have all this free time, i should get into survey mode
glossy wharf
Oh boi
rigid crescent
been meaning to do some Pan style fieldwork
glossy wharf
Les go
queen mango
It might be a good idea to study VRChat's demographics.
glossy wharf
You mean the streams where they dont read chat and talk about how a taco is a sandwich.
Good times.
pastel galleon
Dev stream lul
vestal pier
I had to turn chat off last time I watched because of how utterly useless it is
Everybody screaming into the void
rigid crescent
they didnt ignore twitter
queen mango
Haven't seen Twitch chat at that time, Blue. What was it like?
pastel galleon
Critics in chat
rigid crescent
Most of those questions werent relevant to the strema or people on it
tranquil cobalt
https://vrchat.canny.io/feature-requests/p/monthly-developer-qa-in-vr Plugging this bcs relevant
rigid crescent
that first paragraph is lol
vestal pier
I watched during the quest one and everyone was just trying to get their 2 cents in about how quest was shit @queen mango that and bigger creators would swoop in with poisonous gotchas trying to get jabs in at devs
rigid crescent
The current means in which content creators can have discourse with the developer team are through this Canny, email, random drop-ins on Discord, and tweeted questions that get answered during the dev streams.
the CCs who "matter" so to speak absolutely have a line to the devs lol
This, overall, is a poor idea that definitely means well.
queen mango
Not a good sign. Game communities usually have both the outlandish content creators, like comedians or Let's Players and the more logical, level-headed ones which analyze the game and its flaws. (At a more or less even balance)
VRChat seems to have more of the former than the latter.
pastel galleon
Afaik they still get ignored with emails tho, just look at xig heh
rigid crescent
Xig is put in line with everyone else, he wasn't ignored.
vestal pier
Didn't xig break the rules?
rigid crescent
He broke the rules, period.
rigid crescent
So now he's just got to wait, like everyone else.
umbral reef
He broke the rules, he knew he was breaking the rules so big odds he got the same email as all of us and did not really get ignored
rigid crescent
He went through so many stages of "I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG" to "OK I did something wrong BUT...." to "PLS UNBAN ME ILL DO WHATEVER YOU WANT"
pastel galleon
Lol
rigid crescent
He should be happy they evne gave him a chance to fix things lol
glossy wharf
If he was he would get tons of new followers, so lets be happy he didnt reach it.
rigid crescent
Anyone uhhh...anyone see that "email" where they said it was OK yet lol
pastel galleon
It's a bs
rigid crescent
Of course it is
He most likely got the OK to HOLD the event, not to stream or youtube it.
glossy wharf
He gets clapped like everyone else, why would he get a warning LOL
rigid crescent
:3 that wasn't your response when Shonzo's world got deleted, you said it wasn't fair he didn't get a warning
pastel galleon
You should get a warning imo
glossy wharf
Because that was a different case LUL
rigid crescent
He broke the rules so he got punished?
umbral reef
As mic said, he could show the email to all of us and we would be quiet but as he still has not done that its fishy and shady
Also why would one get a warning for ERPing with people of unknown age in a 13+ game
rigid crescent
Honestly how do we know xig didn't get a warning though?
vestal pier
Afaik he did
umbral reef
Odds are people legit can be jailed for shit they did in there lmao
A warning isnt the thing he should have gotten
glossy wharf
The rules which were a) just changed as public limitations were put in, b) he was already working on updating the avatars and was uploading them one after another.
rigid crescent
Dude I've 100% been giving him the benefit of the doubt the email exists too, but at the same time, it's the FIRSt ting I'd do to shut u pany naysayers
No, he kept uploading over IDs months after November rules were in place
BAD avatars over IDs
pastel galleon
You don't get a warning prior to being banned
glossy wharf
No he wasnt?
rigid crescent
He absolutely was.
glossy wharf
He literally was updating the whole front row already before it was taken down LOL
What?
He left it up cause he was updating the avatars to fit the new limitations.
rigid crescent
He absolutely circumvented the system to upload more bad avatars after November, if I really wanted to prove that I could no doubt go through his VODs to find those avatars but that's a lot of work, so maybe later
pastel galleon
There are worse avatars than those in public anyways
glossy wharf
I think ur mixing up larens and shonzo rn mic LOL
rigid crescent
Well larens actually went down fairly quickly if i remember right
rigid crescent
spoiler: we mass reported shonzos here too lol
glossy wharf
Yeah but he was updating his shit so shrug
And he optimized all of them in like a week afterwards.
Talking about those public limitations are those even a thing still
rigid crescent
Nope
rigid crescent
luckily we've got the tools to, mostly, never have to see thme
That's honestly a better alternative imo, we just need some more customization for it
glossy wharf
Eh im mixed about it
should always give people an incentive to optimize.
Esp public model creators.
A bit less strict restrictions would have been more fit imo.
umbral reef
Im still for being bias and promoting optimized worlds witin the tabs more then unoptimized ones
rigid crescent
If we have all the proper tools to prevent seeing bad shit, then there's really no need for limitations
like being able to create my own limitations based on the entire Avatar Performance Stats would probably be my ideal endgame
I can tell the game just what to block, at exactly how many Cloth and DB, which is already a thing, but also Bones, Poly, Lights, Meshes, etc down to the last number
glossy wharf
Still would prefer people actually optimizing over that.
rigid crescent
while that's the ideal alternative it's definitely not happening outside of actual limitations
glossy wharf
Oh yeah absolutely not, i would like a system like you mentioned combined with not so strict public limitations
It does not.
Theres a few members, most of it left the game.
People arent doing big particle shows anymore after Particle limiter and trust system.
covert blade
Speaking of optimization, I think the current system used to decide how well an avatar performs isn't very ideal.
pastel galleon
Was it worth it
covert blade
A single light source turns an "Excellent" rated avatar into a "poor" avatar
glossy wharf
Theres people like graelyth that do cool animations still, but the particle community is fucking dead.
@covert blade because realtime lighting is fucking horrible on performance.
covert blade
Yes but my point is that the system just takes whatever has the worst rating and applies that as the overall performance rating
karmic vale
Sorry to pop in unannounced, but to be honest I somewhat wish there wasn't a cap on the avatars that you can have favorited. It's quite annoying having to trade them out and then scavenge to find one you deleted on accident.
glossy wharf
Yes thats a thing weve been complaining about since day one
@karmic vale It used to be 3 avatars so u already have a good amount with 16.
covert blade
Like I could make literally nothing and add a single small light to it and it'd be rated poor
covert blade
And another avatar that is rated poor in ALL aspects would have the same rating. Makes no sense
pastel galleon
Yep I honestly dont know why there's a limit on it, but it used to be worse so
karmic vale
You get the jist of what I'm poking at.
glossy wharf
Its probably limited so malicious users dont make too many api calls with favoriting.
rigid crescent
I think they mentioned in the stream Ron was in why there was a limit
glossy wharf
Knowing how well this games api works
karmic vale
Ah.
glossy wharf
Websockets when LUL
covert blade
Also I'm pretty sure that an avatar rated poor because of too many dynamic bones would still be hidden even if you had the option enabled to disable dynamic bones when there's too many, right?
karmic vale
Well that's reasonable then. I guess.
glossy wharf
Sockets were a thing for a whopping 3 hours before it was rolled back cause it broke the game LOL
final zodiac
I'm using a poorly optimized avatar but I love it
karmic vale
Honestly the whole avatar menu is still buggy as all hell.
pastel galleon
Yes mason
rigid crescent
I miss the API letting me see who is all in a friends only/friends+ room ๐
glossy wharf
Admin credentials incorrect @rigid crescent
rigid crescent
;-;
glossy wharf
F for locking api calls behind admin powers
rigid crescent
kept me from going into a bunch of fucking empty sleep rooms tbh
covert blade
Honestly when picking an avatar, I look at the stats and decide whether the rating the game gave that avatar actually makes sense and if I should use it in public worlds based on ALL the stats and not just the total rating
glossy wharf
The whole UI isnt in the best state in the moment cause they are in between api and websocket switch btw.
rigid crescent
or rooms with like two or three people just having some smaller talks
karmic vale
Ah.
glossy wharf
@covert blade literally jsut use your model, people can block it.
pastel galleon
But it's not that many ppl use that option anyway
glossy wharf
You would be surprised
covert blade
Because if you set it to something like "Medium" the vast majority of avatars are blocked?
glossy wharf
There was quite a few api tools amongst the veterans that were used.
f for wifi punks tool
covert blade
Also I have no own model
glossy wharf
Dude that world list update was the biggest garbage
rigid crescent
Aneko is working on APIary but i dunno what it'll even be able to do at this point
glossy wharf
I wanna see worlds that are semi full or empty, not either empty or 1 slot.
I miss joining back on the world id i was in
Without having to do shitty startup parameters
umbral reef
Now sai cant return to there ERP rooms anymore
final zodiac
covert blade
Wait I thought the "Recent" tab in the worlds was supposed to send return you to the same instance?
pastel galleon
No it just shows you which world it was and the public instances
covert blade
My life is a lie then
vocal shard
Holyyyy apple devices.. worst things ever... Why are they so slow and terrible... Holyy.. why apple computers take a billion years to boot up photoshop and maya and they crash all the time... Imagine if the film and gaming industry had brains to use the superior pc over slow macs
covert blade
What if those industries are sponsored to use Mac's to boost popularity?
rough pulsar
Sounds like your Mac needs some maintenance
umbral reef
Like turning it into a windows laptop maintenance ๐
vocal shard
Not my mac lel i dont pay for garbage machines lmao
rough pulsar
And yet my Macs have lasted literally years longer than any Windows PC
It's almost as if taking care of your system gives you a lot of good life out of it.
umbral reef
Gallium, apple 10 years ago was alrighty to good
Apple now is pure design jokes after design joke
rough pulsar
Oh yeah, I totally agree on that front. Their latest systems are a joke compared to what they used to be.
You'll pry my G5 Powermac from my cold dead hands
umbral reef
Ranging from heating problems to dongles to the toolbar not functioning even right to making screen cables so short they snap right out of warrenty
snow wadi
Apple is now focusing more on style rather than performance, the cpu throttling is getting out of hand and all in the name of sleekness.
If I want to game I'll use a bloody PC thank you very much! o/
Man even Linux is starting to make Apple look bad.
tranquil cobalt
Apple always seemed to lead with design vs engineering which is obviously weird for a tech company - but it usually led to some great wild shit. Now imo it feels like designers are still leading but aren't working with engineers to create realistic/decent user experiences
vocal shard
Weird non universal dongles that are mac/apple exclusive
Imagine being the console version computer of a pc that cant really do anything and has less function than a pc
glad maple
hello
vocal shard
You do realize apple is based on linux but is a very very butchered version of it @snow wadi
faint skiff
BSD
vocal shard
Linux is superior to apple ios
snow wadi
I know it is, that doesn't suddenly make apple better though
vocal shard
Linux is better than apple
Imagine turning free software into free money
That's wild
Too bad they don't hire people with ethics over there
snow wadi
If they hired someone and that person suggests adding more I/O to their laptops, they'd get fired there and then.
vocal shard
If you have ethics youre not allowed to work at apple
snow wadi
"Maybe if we actually focus on performance this time"
Apple : "Get out"
"And clear your desk, you filthy casual"
snow wadi
"Well, time to use my USB Flash Drive. Oh! Where is the USB port?"
"You're gonna need these 5 adapters"
glad maple
ya
uncut crag
So I did the steamvr performance test and Im set on everything besides my GPU. What is the best alternative to the GTX 745 that is still nvidia, and is under 500$? And ofc will fit in the same slot
is something like a 1080 viable?
glossy wharf
get a 20 series
cold talon
Personally got a 1080 non ti, works ok
uncut crag
and it is under 500?
cold talon
I'm waiting for the 30 series
tawny ore
30verpriced Super TI Boost
uncut crag
I tested vridge for vivecraft and vrchat and theyre alright but pretty laggy a good chunk of the time so I think a graphics card is all I really need for a smooth experience on most VR
a NEW graphics card btw
cold talon
Eh, vr chat is pretty hard on the cpu, especially because it's not multithreaded as well as it could be
uncut crag
i mean it's hard to really optimize a game like vrchat
tawny ore
Hefty - you set the price range, I gave you the option you seek... 1070 mini is actually friggin excellent
tawny ore
There you go ๐
uncut crag
the chip cools well ?
tawny ore
I've not run into any issues
It's very quiet too! The fans go full-stop when you idle in windows
uncut crag
if anything happens, i can still downgrade I suppose
vivecraft already runs at like, 40fps, and gtx 745 is a pretty fking old card apparently
well optimized i suppose
tawny ore
Your framerates will triple with this swap lol
uncut crag
Yeah, and I can finally use mc with shaders
uncut crag
320 is not a bad price for what i'm seeing is actually a good card with no gimmicky crap
tawny ore
Yep. It's as I said - Excellent.
uncut crag
and, i'm not very used to this type of thing but, this will fit replacing these specs? i just want a verification, lol i'm looking in to this though https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-745-oem/specifications
tawny ore
1070 could outperform three 745's in SLI
apparently your upgrade will be a 700% power increase
tawny ore
That's optimal
tawny ore
That's perfectly adequate
uncut crag
Damn
snow wadi
Get the 1080, a 20xx series gpu is not worth the asking price right now.
tawny ore
^ or that, yes.
snow wadi
And if you can, a 1080ti
tawny ore
My option is good if you fancy a good GPU and a pizza with it.
uncut crag
language is weird, because you can say something like that, and it will make perfect sense
for no reason
cold talon
1080 :nothankyou:
2080 :thatsmorelikeit:
tawny ore
6700 would bottleneck the 2080 to death
uncut crag
prolly just getting the mini honestly, sounds good for what im seeking
cold talon
Nah, just use half of the 2080 as a cpu
uncut crag
and, is full body tracker really worth it right now or should i just get like a windows mr and stop at that
tawny ore
That's outside of my field of experience; oh and don't listen to anything @cold talon says
glossy wharf
@uncut crag Dont get a 1070, get a 20 series gpu.
tawny ore
^ don't listen to that person either
cold talon
Well it depends on what you want to do with the fbt, getting it solely for vrc, I would say it's not worth it, considering each Puck is 90$ and you need 3
tawny ore
" Edition Windows 10 Professional
OS Build 10.0.18362.175
Graphic card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
Installed RAM 32 GB
Version 1903
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Six-Core Processor "
My system XD Not had any issues with any VR games
Although I'm gonna upgrade the CPU end of next week as the 2600x has been my do-over until Ryzen 9
uncut crag
brah
cold talon
Wow thx vrc bot
snow wadi
People who are suggesting the 20xx series are not thinking straight, you need to take EVERYTHING into account and not just "I got a 2080 so that means I'm a cool guy now"
uncut crag
i want something that fits and requires the least amount of installation troubles so I don't have to panic bc my computer doesnt have a big enough gpu slot or some bullshit lmao
snow wadi
Your FIRST and FOREMOST goal is budget, no matter how you look at it.
tawny ore
The mini wins in that
Mini wins in the form factor too
And mini also buys pizza for the entire week
uncut crag
ive already said that 500 is max and 350~ and less is ideal
glossy wharf
He has a 500 dollar budget, the 20 series for that budget outperforms the 10 series by a lot, the tdp is the same.
tawny ore
and then has money left over for 2 more ram sticks
glossy wharf
Literally buy a 20 series gpu LOL
vocal shard
Something like an RTX 2060 is cheaper than a new 1070, and more powerful (1070ti) . So if you're buying new parts, go RTX. If you're buying used, the GTX line might be for you
glossy wharf
There is no reason to buy a 10 series when the 20 are out.
The Tdp is the same and you get more performance for your buck.
snow wadi
Yeah but does it play nice with his CPU?
tawny ore
Ooh the 2060 has 8GB VRAM finally they have sorted the xx60s out with something decent
snow wadi
Bottleneck, man. Come on you should be aware of this.
glossy wharf
And there is no reason to buy a worse gpu just because a bottleneck is a possibility
that just means you get a better tdp out of it in the end
uncut crag
alright im just gonna jot down my hardware spec just in case its needed to determine anything,
Intel Core i7-6700, 3.40 GHZ, 16 GB Ram,geforce gtx 745
glossy wharf
Also it enables him to upgrade cpu down the line
snow wadi
If there is a bottleneck, then not much of a "Bang for your buck" now is there?
glossy wharf
Yes its still better bang for the buck?
vocal shard
The RTX line is also going under a price drop now since they're coming out with their SUPER cards.
glossy wharf
Also it enables raytracing
snow wadi
The raytracing is a gimmick btw >_>
glossy wharf
????????
Actually trolling
@rigid crescent once again, the tech illiteracy is coming through bigtime in the vrc community
uncut crag
im just sitting here watching you folks argue while i have internal dilemma because i just want to fuckin play vivecraft w/ mods
cold talon
vocal shard
I'm not interested in raytracing too much, but what I like about the RTX cards specifically for VR is they are designed with the ability to have Foveated rendering with eye tracking. This was brought up with the launch of the Vive Pro eye, where they said the RTX cards variable rate shading feature finally makes that easy, compared to previous cards which struggl with that
median basalt
Why do you randomly ping people lol
glossy wharf
Im not randomly pinging anyone, im pinging him as a follow up to a previous convo about said topic.
median basalt
Oh
glossy wharf
Dont assume.
median basalt
k
cold talon
oh ye, turns out the rtx 2060-super is +4% faster than a gtx 1080 and also cheaper at only 400$
median basalt
Well foveated rendering will probably take a while to be supported by headsets
We still barely have any headsets with eye tracking, not even the index
Only a super overpriced HTC piece of hardware might support it
glossy wharf
Still pretty sad about that, valve patented a nice technology around it but didnt use it yet.
uncut crag
yeah the mini has low bottleneck and it's a good price for what i want
probably rolling with it, but thanks for the feedback
cold talon
hold it right there
uncut crag
Bruh im not planning on rendering nasa supercomputer simulations i'm gonna be fine!
cold talon
for only 40$ more you can get: ray tracing, better tdp, non blowerfan (so quieter) and 12% increase in speed
tawny ore
non blowerfan (so quieter) the mini is not a blower mate
cold talon
oh ye the mini uses a normal one, my bad
tawny ore
๐
cold talon
but still you have the other advantages
tawny ore
Lack of pizza is not an advantage
cold talon
๐
uncut crag
as long as my computer doesn't explode and I can play minecraft tech mods in 60 fps with vivecraft ill be chill lol
tawny ore
Imagine upgrading your GPU from a Rock - to a GTX 1070... Do you think you'll feel like missing out on anything by ignoring the existence of 20xx series?
cold talon
indeed, only enough money left for pizza rolls, not full pizza
tawny ore
I think your brain and noodle will be blown by the fact that everything is running buttery smooth
uncut crag
will this also help in any way with video exports as a side effect or is that like a mostly cpu handled thing
tawny ore
Video exports can be accelerated by it too yes
uncut crag
just to know, cus this is a family PC as well and my dad would probs enjoy that side effect
Neat
cold talon
well i upgraded form a gtx660 to a gtx 1080, still missing out on rtx for blender rendering โน
tawny ore
Ah I went from a 7970 to 1070 and I have 0 regrets
coral glade
interesting
uncut crag
plus minecraft raytracing is handled by the mod's software i believe
so like rtx wouldn't really give me that big of a benefit
i also might try beat saber
cold talon
mc ray tracing does not support the rtx feature yet from what i know, so yes it wouldn't be much of a difference
tawny ore
Inside out means you don't need any weird stands placed around the room
tawny ore
Outside in means you need these stands called base stations
There are benefits to both
uncut crag
the room i'm in isn't exactly spacious and i don't plan to be walking around really
tawny ore
Considerations:
Do you plan on getting full body VR?
Have you got sufficient USB slots in your PC (for many base stations)
vocal shard
Most newer VR is going inside out. Some still use base stations though like the Vive headsets, and the valve index
tawny ore
I'm off so the others can answer the rest
cold talon
1 slot for each station 1 for headset
cold talon
ah than you are set
uncut crag
like ~4 in the back, 2 on the top, and two in the front
cold talon
actually jamie is the one to ask on headset connectors, he has so many different headsets lul
median basalt
USB slots for what?
uncut crag
how many headsets does one need?
uncut crag
i'm using WMR
median basalt
One USB and one HDMI
cold talon
well 4 if you want full room tracking aka 3 stations
uncut crag
doesnt wmr have the inside tracking meaning i dont need the stations?
cold talon
uhh what wmr do you have?
cold talon
ah well its inside out tracking
uncut crag
epic
cold talon
so 1 usb and one hdmi form what i know
uncut crag
hmmm, amazon has it for $210~ used
cold talon
not allowed to "hmmm" wow nice one bot
uncut crag
your hmmm privileges, hand them over - the bot
vocal shard
Yeah it's just one HDMI, one usb3
cold talon
https://imgur.com/MiKAZJ9
oops i dropped my gpu benchmark
uncut crag
time to take away one of my monitors for vr 
unless for some reason i do have another hdmi port
heavy timber
I definitely cant recommend mixed reality. It is very picky about lighting, sometimes glitches your view sideways or freeze-crashes your pc when using the windows 10 may 2019 (1903) version. There are also a variety of other issues ranging from getting sent back to home, to not even getting past 20 frames, although my setup more than meets the required spec for mixed reality ultra, i am also not the only person to have these issues.
cold talon
oh you can use those display port to hdmi convertors, they are pretty cheap now
cold talon
uh i dont think the crashes and being sent back to home is caused by the headset
but indeed, god forbid you having a big mirror in the room
uncut crag
I have to change windows versions or some shit?
im looking at reviews
also, is the display the same quality asa vive in terms of resolution?
cold talon
i really have no idea, but that shouldn't be something that has to be done just to make a headset work
uncut crag
i just hope to god I don't get a defective unit
there's a good chunk of one stars saying it died after a month
vocal shard
Mixed Reality resolution you were asking? It's 1440x1440 per eye
I have the Acer, Lenovo, Samsung, and a server full of wmr users who don't have those issues ๐ค
inner cape
flexin'
jovial pulsar
I was just wondering, did a recent patch break the voice priority in this game? It seems like there's a problem in every world now that everyone's voice is equally loud, it doesn't seem to focus in on the people that are the closest to you
inner cape
it has been broken for a while
final zodiac
@tawny ore mind if I add you in vrchat?
final zodiac
Name?
tawny ore
Fuzzout, obviously
tawny ore
Accepted
inner cape
would you look at that, friendship born upon our eyes
uncut crag
is there a poor mans vr headset emulator that works with google cardboard? just to fill the vr shaped hole in my brain for the meantime, even if it's shit and ass,
raven hamlet
๐ก people shit talking my wmr
inner cape
pepe alert
tawny ore
uncut crag
i've tried iVRy, but that doesn't connect to my pc like vridge did
nvm
iVRy works, but unfortunately steamvr won't let me setup room properly
hollow breach
WMR suxs
raven hamlet
๐ก not for $150
vestal pier
@uncut crag if you can avoid the Acer WMR headset id reccomend it, its the worst of the bunch.
The others are great though ๐
river meadow
Hi
hollow breach
Pepeโs arenโt allowed?!?!
raven hamlet
Didn't know pepes were banned.. I think that's a bit excessive imo
covert linden
I HATE that sentence. Its not too sensitive. IF some things can really hurt one person even its kind to just back off. Every person has their own things they get hurt over.\
ruby needle
It's fine Fez 
vocal shard
If a green frog upsets you that much I think you have bigger problems to worry about
hollow breach
^
covert linden
Depends on your experiances and seeing as it got used as a racist icon at some point itd be the meaning behind it not the frog itself
raven hamlet
Server just wants me to conform to the anime only pics
covert linden
theres more images in life than just pepe and anime stinky
heck have a tree pfp for all I care
ruby needle
It bases on the definition of it as a hate symbol by some organisation i forgot
raven hamlet
The anti defamation league.
But they even say to look at it first.
Not all of them are inherently racist.
covert linden
Still its not something this server wants to be assosiated with I suppose
hollow breach
Why is this restricted on a discord server but not in the game itself?
covert linden
Would be something better done via email than here
idle elm
It is also reportable in app.
covert linden
oh ok ty Owlboy
snow wadi
I came back with tortilla pringles and a pepsi
It's a weekend right now
Time to VR until I bump my head into one too many walls
uncut crag
I was just in alobby with people as a pringles can avatar
unfortunately my game crashed after i went into the portal they made
sad..
old halo
to me server was offline
faint skiff
@covert linden Your sentence is self defeating. Almost everything offends someone, so if you ban anything that anyone dislikes in some way, you'd be left with almost nothing.
covert linden
No its not. Im not saying we need to ban everything that hurts it but respect the fact that some people do get harmed, by something that is seen as a racist icon by some groups.
Instead of making fun of people for having emotions all the time.
faint skiff
And wow about Pepes, people who claim they're a racist symbol are as bad as the people who use them as one. They're just a thing and "stealing" them like that, claiming that they're something they aren't, just screws over everyone who isn't racist that's used them for years.
By claiming they're racist you're just giving them power.
It's not racist, it was never racist. Hey you know what, racists use cars, better ban those!
covert linden
If its used as racist by a racist organization it gets a connotation as racist and its best to leave it be.
Its not like its banned wordwide you can live in one discord without it so chill
faint skiff
In what way was it even used in a racist fashion? I've been lots of places where pepes are used extensively and don't even know how they could be used in a racist fashion.
covert linden
You can find that with a google search rather easily.
inner cape
it's the media that made them into hate speech
umbral reef
Take it to the admins
faint skiff
Exactly. What was being reported on seemed to have no basis in reality. They reported something as true because they wanted something to use as firewood. Doesn't surprise me given the garbage quality of reporting these days.
See CNN's "Who is this hacker 4chan" clip as a quality example.
(or was it Fox?)
covert linden
ok but things can be created for one reason then have it alter later its life
faint skiff
Right, but you could just ignore the (almost nonexistant) ones you people are claiming are bad and maybe not take away an icon others grew up with?
covert linden
you must be young if you grew up with a frog.
stable ibex
The problem is that your mentality allows racists to keep using it under the guise of "joking" :/ They pretty much use centrists as a shield and slowly convert them.
umbral reef
Its not alterted though- Anyone who thinks else has been fed false information. Legally its not even listed as one and the company who holds tabs and has a international list of hate symbols even makes it clear that its not one.
faint skiff
Can you imagine if the media suddenly started reporting that some neo-nazi group loved Transformers, so now you can never talk about Transformers again as that's racist.
covert linden
Its not altered no but things do alter, is what im saying. Personally the frog makes me extremely uncomfortable for not racist reasons thus why im glad its gone personally
stable ibex
yes, they keep finding new things like "subscribe to pewdiepie" so you can't ban them. It's really becoming a problem.
umbral reef
Everything makes you uncomfortable though so at the same time :X
covert linden
No everything does not..
faint skiff
Well you make me uncomfortable, so they'll be banning you now, right?
Because that's apparently how it works
covert linden
No. I never said that. They banned it because its used by a racist organization.
umbral reef
@stable ibex Almost like banning normal things to ' stop' a small group of extreme trolls does the opposite effect, gives them more attention and power
stable ibex
sigh yeah
covert linden
Uproaring about it here just makes you look petty, You should know they handle all things via email by now (/canny)
tupper aint gonna yeet in and be like done and done and pretend like dozens others dont pull the same arguement bidaily
uncut crag
cartoon frog bad
quiet sleet
y tho? ๐ค
covert linden
We literally went over this 2 seconds ago boi
stable ibex
It's just with pepe, it pretty much did turn into an alt-right thing. it turned from this comic book character into this racist nihilistic meme. Sure, it's not always used that way, but let's take honkler for an example. That meme was pretty much created to mock the LGBT community and the way the world has become. I do hope that shit gets banned from VRchat. I guess I don't really give a shit about pepe himself being banned, more on how he is used.
uncut crag
bans like this let them win
lol
it's counterintuitive imo
but eh, dont really care
quiet sleet
so basically if some dumbass starts using ๐ค emojis for hatespeech, they get banned
stable ibex
so you just want them parading around? Will it take them mocking LGBT people to get them banned?
umbral reef
The msg above counts as a win for them tbh-
Banning basic things that prior had nothing to do with a group being labled as that groups thing and being banned just gives them power, fame, new people actually and ruins it for others
faint skiff
@stable ibex You use common fucking sense. Words aren't racist, racist words are racist. In the same vein pepe isn't racist, obviously racist looking modifications of pepe are racist. It's not hard to understand.
umbral reef
Its almost like anything can be used in a bad way
And that its always ban worthy :thonk:
Guess using something normal while others use it badly makes you also bad ๐
covert linden
The sad thing is this conversation happens often andwill always go nowhere
if all you can do is argue and get heated instead of taking the proper means to appeal it if it means that much to you, then clearly nothing will get done.
uncut crag
yup
indigo fern
lmao oclac thats how actual vrc works anyway, anything thats used bad gets yeeted
quiet sleet
normal people:
nazi pepe = bad
regular pepe = not bad
vrchat:
nazi pepe = bad
regular pepe = just as bad
seems about right
umbral reef
@indigo fern Ow shit forgot logic aint allowed in here
indigo fern
umbral reef
๐ธ is not evil though by vrc rules
uncut crag
it isnt hard to differentiate the whistleblower
quiet sleet
it's about as hard as differentiating between a goth and an emo
stable ibex
so pretty hard? :^)
uncut crag
Bruh
quiet sleet
funny enough that's pretty accurate
faint skiff
But it doesn't surprise me. When I raised a concern earlier, it took, what, 5 minutes for someone to derail it to make it seem like it was some bizarre cover for racism, when infact it was about someone hiding their sexuality. People want the worst, they love the drama and love to make new demons to hate.
quiet sleet
the way I can tell is the goth never has cuts on his/her arms ๐
umbral reef
Tbh- I should just not ask this but its funny to do as it proves how insane this argument even is.
(Also #general-media more fitting for this).
What group/race/what else does a normal frog emote even offend?
quiet sleet
SJWs?
uncut crag
sjw's do not exist anymore
sjws have not actually been active anywhere as a movement since early 2016
stable ibex
I don't really like drama, it's just painful to see people allow racists to be shielded. I realize that banning is far from always the answer, but if it's something like pepe, or at least awful depicitions of him, I'm fully on board.
faint skiff
No-one's shielding shit. If someone's being racist then they'll be called out like everyone else.
What is this imaginary pepe shield you're dreaming up?
stable ibex
you say that, but often when I see it in practice they end up being shielded anyway
quiet sleet
ban nazi pepes, don't ban regular pepes, that's how I see it
stable ibex
okay that's fine
indigo fern
that would require active mods
which as you can see, 6/8 are away and constantly set that way
quiet sleet
yeah that's not gonna happen without volunteers
cold talon
Sorry I've been sent by ruuubick to tell yall this, and I quote: "#general-media please"
umbral reef
@quiet sleet He was making a joke of the chatmods in here
And those are volunteers even lmao
quiet sleet
it's funny because there's a group of people I've ran into multiple times that are a literal hate group, and none of em have been banned
uncut crag
nazi pepes/pepe at all, shouldn't have its own rule, obvious dog whistling bullshit should be banned silently
stable ibex
Anyways, does anyone know any good "learn 3d" tutorials for blender? Does that work for this chat?
indigo fern
no that would be more fit for #3d-modeling
cold talon
Lul
stable ibex
sorry I'll go there
umbral reef
@quiet sleet Ingame is no moderation beside the random developer being in a room and reporting someone.
They fully rely on reports and even then getting proof for most things means you have to record 24/7 or have shadowplay ready to go
cold talon
Nah, dw it's fine to ask here too
uncut crag
i have seen multiple giant penis avatars
quiet sleet
I've reported them multiple times, I know a few victims so I'm gonna see if I can get them all to start recording these fucks
uncut crag
what do you mean by hate group btw
just a bunch of fucking racist avatars or something,
quiet sleet
not avatars
they go around harassing women, blacks, browns, gays, furries, anything that isn't white christian basically
umbral reef
People do and will get banned once reported. But if no one reports it, the team does not know about it and cant take any action
quiet sleet
they do this shit in public lobbies all the time they could literally just walk in undercover and watch them for 5 minutes, also how the fuck do I get an output log?
umbral reef
!outputlog
floral flaxBOT
You can find your output log at C:\Users\%Username%\AppData\LocalLow\VRChat\vrchat named output_log.txt
umbral reef
And they could, im in favor for that stuff myself but it wont happen
faint skiff
Output log probably wouldn't show anything, if it's audio then the only thing is a video which isn't ideal considering most people aren't recording at all times.
quiet sleet
they only do it through audio soooo ๐คท
umbral reef
It shows there full ID/name what can be good if the name isnt shown fully
quiet sleet
I have all of their names
umbral reef
Else you have to even record yourself opening the menu to show the full name
faint skiff
@quiet sleet Do they stick to one type of av, or just random stuff?
quiet sleet
I'm not leaking them because VRchat really hates that
umbral reef
As its not hard to get a name that only displays right there but not above your head
vocal shard
Well, there are so many public lobbies to look through, they only have so many people :P
quiet sleet
they have one world they go to consistantly
stable ibex
which one is that?
vocal shard
I'm not a mod, but I think how it works is, Without clear undisputable proof, or multiple reports from different people, they may just keep an eye on things, but not take action since there's a chance the reports are false.
So more people reporting is a must
quiet sleet
https://www.vrchat.net/home/launch?worldId=wrld_4ff1d7e0-1290-421c-881c-e1a117b25aa4 here ya go, there's one world they go to frequently, as for multiple people reporting, I know several people who have reported these guys by name
vocal shard
Please do it in DMs if you do share the names, rather than here in the public chat
uncut crag
Yea
faint skiff
That's a weird choice of world to use. Shame because it's really nice.
cold talon
Ready your pitchforks ๐ด
quiet sleet
either way they go around harrassing people just for the fun of it, getting kick votes called on people and managing to kick people out because of their group being somewhat large, they also have a pretty specific naming scheme which makes it pretty easy to tell who's with em
near sky
๐ด๐ด
near sky
Funny guy
quiet sleet
where's the DAMN SPORK?
faint skiff
I did always wonder if a group of people could just kick anyone they wanted due to how votekicking works
near sky
Funny guy 
quiet sleet
@faint skiff yep, they can, it's happened
indigo fern
theres nothing funny about scooping eyes out
cold talon
How do you know, have you tried it?
indigo fern
๐ ๐ช
old halo
i was once kicked for no reason of a painting room, simply because the room had 7 people and 3 were knowing each other.
quiet sleet
I was kicked from a room for making a joke that wasn't even offensive
old halo
they could just have asked me to leave.
cold talon
Once got kicked because someone didn't like my avatar, happend to be the instance owner
quiet sleet
I got harassed and kicked for that myself
blocked the fuckers right after, hell they were part of that same hate group
cold talon
Eeh don't think they are really a hate group, just a bunch of everyday diks
quiet sleet
pretty sure they are a group if they have the same goddamn name thing
and wear very simular avatars
who knows though, they might be a everyday dick group
hell I've been harrassed for having a headset before so ๐คท
faint skiff
How would that even go? "Hah, look at this user with the hardware the game was designed for. What a nerd".
azure arch
quiet sleet
because apparently owning a headset = rich boi despite you can get a used one for like 200 bucks
and you don't even need that great of a GPU, a 970 works just fine...
pastel galleon
^ this
stable ibex
You do if you want that valve headset apparently
quiet sleet
well valve's headset is for enthusiasts
we all know the average consumer isn't looking for crazy finger tracking controllers nearly flawless tracking and 144 HZ refresh rates, all they want is to get in VR
quiet sleet
it's definitely a good way to get into VR, and enough for most people, I will say that
uncut crag
wait i meant acer
quiet sleet
same point applies
uncut crag
i just want cool vivecraft hitting creepers in real life and vrchat funnies
quiet sleet
๐ go ahead, you aren't gonna get a index or anything but that's not the point, it's to get you in VR, and it can do both of those things
vocal shard
My feet hurt
quiet sleet
it can do full roomscale VR just fine
quiet sleet
oh I almost forgot about the quest, that thing doesn't even require a PC, although it's pretty shite for VRchat because you can't see any avatars so ๐คท
floral aspen
Technically you can see avatars with the quest, but the avatar owner has to go through the trouble of making a quest compatible version of their avatar.
hushed cargo
I have vift s! I can dance and touch people, it's good. I just hate having to have the light on ;;
vestal sleet
Having the light on ?
quiet sleet
yeah inside out tracked headsets require light
vocal shard
Since inside out tracking needs the room to have some light. Compared to Vive or rift CV1 which could work in the dark
quiet sleet
it's kinda the reverse of what I'm used to where my headset tracks best in complete darkness
vocal shard
Although some have been playing with inside out tracking headsets in the dark by using an infrared flood light
indigo fern
why cant they make an inside out tracking headset for darkness anyway? 
oh, really?
interesting
quiet sleet
isn't that basically what the vive and index does?
vocal shard
Kinda, but just to light up the room for the cameras, rather than as ir beacons like Lighthouse
quiet sleet
oh, I see
uncut crag
does anyone have gameplay of vrchat on wmr
vocal shard
What do you mean?
uncut crag
just gameplay of vrchat on wmr with the controllers as a sample of the tracking
indigo fern
well, from the users POV it'll be the same, since it tracks infront of you anyway
vocal shard
I may know a guy...
indigo fern
its your lucky day, jamie is basically representative of wmr within vrchat
uncut crag
and you can see your arms in vrchat as well / i cant remember
Bruh
im getting an asus wmr soon i think
umbral reef
Guys like the biggest shill for WMR ๐
indigo fern
just type in vrchat wmr and boom, theres jamie
vocal shard
Lol
uncut crag
is iVRy or any of the google cardboard to pc vr apps good performance measurers?
bc i ran vivecraft and got ~40fps while tracking
and vrchat was lagging at around 30fps but it worked decently enough
of course the quality was shit, since it was being streamed
vocal shard
I don't like those. I have a VR capable PC, but streaming to a phone was a bad experience with artifacting and lag
uncut crag
not to mention cardboard and lenses are very often blurry and incredibly low-quality by theirselves
vocal shard
Yeah
uncut crag
does wmr have good adjustability for your eyes?
vocal shard
The lenses are fixed in place, so you can't adjust them too much, but they're much better quality than something like cardboard, larger with a better sweetspot, so it suits more people
uncut crag
for some reason i think bc im younger it won't properly fit ???? not sure exactly if that is something i should be concerned about
vocal shard
They're best suited for an IPD around 64, but there's enough for me to play with a lower IPD of 60
It should be fine. My little cousins were fine with the lenses
uncut crag
what was their age range tho
if you are comfortable with disclosing that kind of information in the first place
or by little, you mean..little
vocal shard
14-17 for them
uncut crag
aight im good then
vocal shard
Cool ^^
uncut crag
can't wait for motion sickness
vocal shard
You get used to it. Lol
But it's better than something like cardboard, since you have 6 degrees of freedom now
vestal sleet
Wait but wmr and uh other headset basically play the game
Wmr is insanly good for it price
lyric urchin
i'm satisfied with my wmr, especially after the recent update
uncut crag
it's also better than cardboard because there's an actual screen and system designed for it
@vocal shard whats like, the best guide for setting it up?
lyric urchin
unfortunately for some reason all of them are gone from the microsoft store except for the odyssey+ and dwindling down in stock on amazon
vocal shard
Download the windows mixed reality portal from the windows store, and then it guides you through the settup
They found one on Amazon
lyric urchin
good
uncut crag
also it works with SteamVR on its own right
whenever it says that "my graphics card is incompatible" it just means that, it's gonna lag, right?
not literally that it won't run at all
vocal shard
What's your graphics card?
uncut crag
I'm getting a new one, but im planning on setting up the WMR first
gtx 745, it's not integrated
vocal shard
Ah... That's pretty low when it comes to wmr. Something like the Vive or rift would block that from working I believe. Wmr is a bit more lenient and allows more cards, but yeah an upgrade is needed
vestal pier
its amazon basics, yes
plush wedge
what is a good vr set
vocal shard
valve index is the best you can get rn but its the most expensive
but if you're going on a budget the a good headset is either the vive or rift S
plush wedge
wich one do you have
faint skiff
Rift S has simpler setup and higher res screen, but Vive has better tracking, easier to add full body later, brighter/more vivid display. Also you're paying Facebook if you buy the Rift so there's that too ๐
rough pulsar
And the Index's audio is amazingly good, both mic and 'headphones', plus the Index accomodates people who need glasses better than the Rift S.
faint skiff
(Vive screen is older but OLED, Rift S is newer but uses backlit LCD)
Oh I forgot about that. The Rift S has garbage audio, worse than all the other headsets. I have no idea why they nerfed that.
rough pulsar
If you can afford it and are in the US/EU and don't mind waiting definitely consider the Index.
plush wedge
how much is rift s and where did you get it from
faint skiff
The Index is silly and somehow they've managed to hide a studio Mic in the headset somewhere.
ruby needle
rough pulsar
two studio mics ๐
faint skiff
Have you heard the Index mic Paul? It sounds like a studio mic, I have no idea how they've done it considering the size and position.
ivory hill
alguem
ruby needle
It might sound good, but it has nothing, but to do with the term "studio mic"
faint skiff
Laymens terms for Mic quality. Toaster mic, desktop mic, studio mic.
plush wedge
which one do you recommend but only pic one
faint skiff
@plush wedge Index
plush wedge
that's what the vr set is called
faint skiff
plush wedge
999$
quiet sleet
valve index - expensive as fuck but best in class controllers, tracking, comfort, audio, and optics (in terms of refresh rate)
in other words, best of the best but it costs a lot
if you just want to get in VR, go with a rift S or WMR, maybe a rift CV1 if you don't mind setting up a bunch of sensors that require USB ports and whatnot
meager solstice
only problem with the index is the production issues
plush wedge
i just bought a pc so im on a budget
quiet sleet
@plush wedge get a used rift or wmr ๐คท
possibly a used vive if you don't mind shit controls and plan on upgrading your setup
plush wedge
im thinking of getting a rift s
quiet sleet
that works too
plush wedge
thx for the help
@quiet sleet can we have a convo like talking to eachother because this is my first time buying a vr set
quiet sleet
perhaps.
plush wedge
i sent you a friend request
heady anchor
hello
timber latch
faint skiff
In the Unity animation keyframe bar, are those numbers seconds or miliseconds?
languid smelt
oof
viscid seal
new climbing worlds coming this sunday ๐
posted some screenshots in #vrchat-pictures
that show sneak peaks at 4
umbral reef
Poggers
umbral reef
Actually got me to play VRC for the first time in weeks because of those maps
viscid seal
these are by different world creators this time as part of a new gamejam
so the creators of the climbing trials won't be taking part in this one, we're taking a backseat
๐
rigid crescent
its almost time for the public release too ๐คค
viscid seal
yeah, the climbing system goes public after sunday. this gamejam was basically the final test for cyanlaser
so he can complete the public version
https://twitter.com/LakuzaVR/status/1149809430218887176 (incase we can post links in this channel)
thats sneakpeaks of 4 worlds by different creators
vestal pier
My map is the one that looks like cardbord 
viscid seal
๐