"Lemme out!... I don't deserve this... reeee!"
#vrchat-general-2
woven steppe
I relogged... couldn't even load into my home world... so stuck in VRC default home
vestal star
Damn. I get stuck in the loading loop whenever I try to join a world.
languid beacon
So if you dig though the SDK code, it looks like “Very Poor” goes by the internal name “Horrible”
woven steppe
sounds about right
One of my old animations and props was me spawning many copies of my avatar on a fixed joint to be able to see how bad it is if I have a world filled entirely of my own avatar...
old avatar wasn't much problem... never tried it with this new more complicated one tho
signal thunder
in great pug:
"i hate the avatar ranking system it's so inaccurate"
37 materials all using cubed shader
woven steppe
I personally experience more FPS drop when someone has lods of materials than when someone has loads of meshes
languid beacon
Time to post it again; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/442444657428004866/525867124682653728/2Q.png
signal thunder
loll
the meshes omg i didnt realize how many people are doing stupid stuff like putting their avatar parts together in unity
woven steppe
Some people just are too intimidated by blender
signal thunder
and they're avatars that are in avatar worlds like, how did those avatar worlds get approved for publish
languid beacon
I joined vrchat 5 months ago with zero experience in unity or blender
woven steppe
I personally am more annoyed with unity than blender tbh... blender just has better controls IMO
languid beacon
If I can do it anyone can do it
neon flume
Yeah I've been trying to encourage all my friends to try doing more of their avatar making in blender. Cats makes it so easy to get an avatar up in the game in less than 30 minutes with atlased materials.
woven steppe
To the point that I find myself pressing blender hotkeys when I'm using Unity or Sketchup
median basalt
The ranking is inaccurate and people will falsely block others
woven steppe
and be like "Oh... shit... wrong program"
languid beacon
Yeah the amount of times I use x to try and delete things in unity
woven steppe
The most common thing I do it on is pressing the numpad keys thinking it will orient my view in sketchup or unity
nop...
languid beacon
I do like unity’s camera much better, does blender have an orbit-from-own-position ?
woven steppe
yes
signal thunder
all the avatar worlds need to be audited to only have avatars that meet medium or higher tbh. when stuff comes out from vrchat saying people need to learn to optimize, it seems like it's not taken into account that most of the people in public worlds are grabbing their avatars from pedestals
median basalt
@signal thunder avatar worlds are already audited
They have to meet certain standards to become public
signal thunder
tell that to the avatar ranking system
languid beacon
Actually the requirements for public world pedestals is a bit stricter than medium status
median basalt
Not in terms of dyn bones
signal thunder
so many avatars in avatar worlds that ive been seeing in public are poor or very poor
median basalt
Rank system will tell you 50 dynamic bones are extremely horrible
But it's still allowed for public
languid beacon
It would simply things if they just changed the requirements to match one of the ranking specifications
median basalt
Public worlds can have 70k poly avatars that are put into the same "very poor" boat as someone with 12 meshes and 12k dynamic bones.
woven steppe
VRChat just needs to have a built in comprehensive tutorial in making your own avatar... If more people know what a good avatar is supposed to be like, then they're less likely to grab one that may look good but is crap.
median basalt
That is the problem
signal thunder
yeah which is why im saying,there should be an audit
languid beacon
70k polys only sends you to good status
median basalt
You sure?
languid beacon
Yes
woven steppe
because like... what 20% of the population actually know what any of the stuff in the stat thing mean
languid beacon
Check for yourself it changed before release
woven steppe
the others are like "what are these?"
median basalt
Oh, I see
median basalt
Anyway, 33 dynbones and you're marked very poor
opaque hawk
The community has made so many tutorials.
median basalt
Even though the limit for public worlds is 50
signal thunder
and it should change for public worlds
median basalt
The public world limits are fine IMO
opaque hawk
I noticed that a lot of expired tutorials are being watched. Lots of them linking directly to older wrong versions of unity and the sdk.
languid beacon
I think they did it because so many avatars would have been rated down due to polygons alone there would have been no incentive to optimize anything else
signal thunder
well time for some body to make a new tutorial and get those views
neon flume
I have 5 dynbones scripts, gotta fix that so I can get Good
opaque hawk
I think they did it because the current unity doesn't split meshes if there are too many polys
woven steppe
Having a tutorial built into the game would in the end be significantly more helpful as it would be apparent to anyone without them needing to ask someone for it.
languid beacon
I hear the “excellent” Star adds 200 tris to your name tag, not sure if true or trolling
woven steppe
Just have like a link to an up to date video as one of the menu options
ruby burrow
I'm fairly certain those rating icons aren't even 3D, so that sounds like trolling to me.
languid beacon
Yeah they looked 2D
signal thunder
the real reason people hate the avatar ranking system: it calls you poor
woven steppe
disable nametag... actually saves some fps
median basalt
@signal thunder that's extremely short sighted but ok
neon flume
"Excuse me I'm not poor, I'm rich with dynamic bones and draw calls"
signal thunder
lolllll
ruby burrow
I encountered a lot of really salty and dismissive people talking about the system last night.
median basalt
"There's only this one reason I just made up in my head, if I ignore all the other ones"
languid beacon
“I’m not poor, I stole all these frames”
signal thunder
over your head rokk
ruby burrow
Entitled even, might be a fitting word.
median basalt
It adds drawcalls to nameplates making the game more laggy, the limits are weird and inconsistent, and breaking one limit gives you zero incentive to not just go all-out with the others. Why bother optimizing my dynamic bones if one of my optimized lights already sends me to "very poor"?
As always, the only good thing is the detailed performance breakdown
whole flare
Vrchat didn't support more then 3 trackers for vr right?
neon flume
Yeah I do hope they consider/have considered a weighted point system like you suggested. Would allow for more nuance in ranking avatars and displaying performance imo.
whole flare
Full Body*
woven steppe
One thing I'm curious about is how does system calculate the performance rating of an avatar that you've already loaded?
languid beacon
I have to admit, I made an excellent version of my avatar, which I would be mostly fine with except I had to remove my tail animation. Call me dumb but I really want it, SO I use a good version of my avatar most of the time, but now my 32k decimation was pointless, so I use my 65k model which is still rated good.
signal thunder
how to fix the ranking system: change medium to "good job honey", poor to "youre almost there keep it up!" and very poor to "you're doing your best, such a good try"
median basalt
Yeah, only 1 or 3 trackers @whole flare
ruby burrow
Fortunately I did also meet a good few that were taking it positively, and recognising that their own avatars were only in the v-poor rating purely out of minor laziness or wasteful excess.
median basalt
@woven steppe it doesn't, it only does on load
woven steppe
See if someone loads me while I'm wearing the swimsuit... I'd just be medium... but if I then put more clothes on... would them loading my clothes up as I turn them on change my rating the next time they open the menu?
whole flare
1? How you gon do full body with 1?
median basalt
Only hips
Oh right, and one more thing about the ranking system
It counts particle systems entirely the wrong way
It's counting my subemitters' potential max particle counts and max polys 2x or 3x
languid beacon
One tracker activates full body mode but it’s not full body your legs will still IK
median basalt
So the game marks me as "very poor" because it thinks I have a max of 1000 mesh particles
languid beacon
But you can lean
woven steppe
Ah... ok so to get a proper rating I should enter the room and then immediately put my clothes on before they load me so I have an up to date rating on their screen?
median basalt
@woven steppe no, it's redone every time avatar loads
ruby burrow
I've noticed the stats for particles come out a little strange yeah.
median basalt
But not after avatar load
Also, more than 2k polys on a mesh particle system will mark you as very poor
languid beacon
Um it scans you every time they open the scanner
woven steppe
Eyy... So I don't actually show up as different ratings to people even tho the load my avatar is taking on their CPU is changing?
median basalt
No, it only scans on load and then caches it @languid beacon
The re-scan is only done locally when you look at your avatar preview again
languid beacon
I have seen the rating change in front of me
ruby burrow
Whilst it's obviously good to keep max particles down and matching the amount a system actually generates, I've normally just calculated my particle count mentally and checked the total produced, rather than setting tight limits.
median basalt
I looked at the code and it should only do it once and then cache it
ruby burrow
Means a particle system that's only capable of generating 100 particles will still count as 1000 unless you adjust that setting.
languid beacon
Weird, I believe you but I have seen my avatar be excellent until my second animator appeared and started animating, then I dropped to good
vocal shard
Yes, and if your model is mmd, it's easy setting up visemes and eye tracking
median basalt
Also, having a single fixed joint particle system will mark you as Medium
woven steppe
hang on... so when someone sees me and cache's my avatar while I'm wearing my swimsuit then I get cached as medium... then next day I meet same person again wearing my clothes with cloth and all that jazz and I'd still be medium? 
signal thunder
why isnt medium just called good
median basalt
That means any time you turn from blue man into your own avatar
Or any time you get unblocked or unhidden
woven steppe
Oh crap... that just means I'm always gonna be medium then... because I doubt if I wear more clothes while I'm still blue man to them (but avatar loaded for me) I'd load up with the clothes worn...
signal thunder
medium is fine
woven steppe
I know it is... but It seems wonky that it doesn't update more often
signal thunder
yeah it is
ruby burrow
For most avatars, medium is the best people are going to reach without sacrificing something. Normally dynamics or collision.
woven steppe
because the moment I change my clothing from anything other than underwear or swimsuit I know I'm taking more load on their CPU
ruby burrow
For others, hitting excellent is easy.
woven steppe
but it's still classing me as medium if what Rokk said is the case
I hit medium because of my 9 animators
ruby burrow
For more advanced and showy avatars, getting out of v-poor is near impossible.
signal thunder
yeah but if they know it they can just accept that nbd
icy otter
don't know why but my unity crashes every time i try to update my world
woven steppe
My party piece is my clothes changing anyway. I'd just wear less clothing the more people are around
gilded valley
lol
signal thunder
i have an avatar that's poor and i know why so i'm not going to demand vrchat throw out the system i just wont use it in public or crowded instances
ruby burrow
The biggest culprits are nearly always physics aspects. Other than that, it's just petty lack of texture atlasing or easy to fix mesh count abuse.
gilded valley
1 light oh no very poor 4head
woven steppe
just don't turn the light on
neon flume
The Bananers trick for skirt dynamic bones is a pretty good way to get a lot of the standardish avatars from poor+ to medium or even good. Two dynbones rather than 8+ or cloth.
gilded valley
Idc about that shit system lmao
signal thunder
is there a video for this banana trick
neon flume
woven steppe
the problem I have with bananers trick is that... Why not wear shorts at that point?
signal thunder
thanks for the link
ruby burrow
I was about to ask. Optimising my skirt has been "on my mind" for months now. I fully admit to simply being lazy with doing it.
ruby burrow
Have simply always prioritised making that meteor animation or that flying umbrella avatar (etc etc) first.
signal thunder
i wonder if this is the same bananers that thought i followed them for being in a public instance with 10 other people i know
woven steppe
I have been preoccupied with fine tuning my clothes that I forgot to add eye tracking and blinking...
signal thunder
lol
neon flume
Hmm well I think it does a good job preserving the bounciness of the skirt while limiting clipping. I can see why you might think it looks like shorts though on shorter skirts. It was a pretty good way for me to learn how to weightpaint.
ruby burrow
Ah, that video looks really good for short skirts, but I'm not sure if it will help mine much. ^ ^;
ruby burrow
@gilded valley I heard the chair limit is 6.
woven steppe
so like... Shimakaze super micro skirts and that stuff
gilded valley
Alright perfect
neon flume
Oh yeah I've run into Bananers once or twice in game, they're so impressive.
Yeah unfortunately I don't think it would help at all for longer ones. Maybe you could get something working with a few more bones and clever weight painting but I can't imagine that would be easy.
ruby burrow
I don't yet know if there's any ability to work round that with disabled chairs or alternating between sets of chairs.
woven steppe
I haven't played with chairs yet
but with chairs I might actually be able to bring people through walls with me
gilded valley
I made the magic school bus and it only has 6 so I'm gucci
neon flume
Does it play the bass boosted magic school bus song?
gilded valley
Yup
opaque hawk
I'm going to recreate triforce heroes with the new chair component
neon flume
Good
woven steppe
I find it amusing to find a bunch of people in a public pug trying to get into the kitchen or the basement with the bucket... and I just walk through the door or wall...
If I had a chair on me... I could take them through it
gilded valley
I made it transform from bus to flying mode with the giant fucking engines in the back
Miss fizzle is a flat image
Perfection
signal thunder
lolll
ruby burrow
My long skirt has been an issue I've been trying to crack for a while now. https://i.imgur.com/kahsVKk.png
gilded valley
ruby burrow
Legs clipping through looks absolutely awful when in FBT, and is a minor point of dissatisfaction when crouching outside of FBT.
signal thunder
omhg dude that magic school bus hahaha
neon flume
Hmm I wonder if you could weightpaint it to the legs or dynbones attatched to the legs to give it some bounce. Totally just speculating though, never worked on a model with a skirt that long.
ruby burrow
I've been trying to get cloth working on it for FBT purposes, though it's a slight sting to see the new performance rating system putting the guidelines on cloth vertices so strictly.
gilded valley
Is ur entire head just eye ball. Where's your brain
ruby burrow
It looks and moves great with regular dyn bones, but trying to weight paint one that long to the legs doesn't seem like it would have good results.
Would cause really crazy stretching in FBT, or otherwise look like a weird tube that follows my legs.
Most of it is eyeball yes. I dunno how brains are stored, I'm not an optician or anything.
woven steppe
brain inside eye
ruby burrow
I still want to revisit my older failed project, of mounting a camera display to my head, that would allow me to toggle different zoom states.
So I can actually make use of the theme and describe or read details from absurd distances.
Then let people run off to inspect it, and be surprised when they discover I really could see it and wasn't bullshitting.
woven steppe
zoom shader in your eyeball?
ruby burrow
Not a shader, just an actual camera with the FOV slider set to adjust on gestures.
woven steppe
Oh shit... speaking of shaders... the stat system doesn't take into account shaders, Does it?
ruby burrow
I've made part of it work before. I just wasn't able to mount the display or camera smoothly in the past.
still lark
Nope @woven steppe
ruby burrow
I guess it not no. Although it'd probably be hard to provide any relevant metric for shaders?
woven steppe
Could have exelent avatar... but eat frames because of shader lol
ruby needle
i mean, you can't easily analyse / differenciate shaders
ruby burrow
How many you have isn't a big deal. What they actually do, is the relevant part, and that can't be analysed very reliably even if a system was designed for it.
ruby needle
yeah
still lark
You could get a rough idea with the amount of passes but yeah
ruby burrow
Alright, enough chatter, time to add another project to my growing pile of unfinished projects.
Player manipulating telekinesis magic is too interesting not to explore.
neon flume
Telekinesis!? 😮
vocal shard
Metal Gear!?
tacit plank
Nude avatars are fine if there's no unsafe textures or geometry, right?
vocal shard
from what i heard barbie doll is ok im not sure tho
woven steppe
just cover them up...
tacit plank
The avatar is a cat so a version without would look more natural
Very humanoid of course
covert linden
I saw a nude wherewolf yesterday with no clothes but also no defining "nude" features
tacit plank
Nanachi is fine, but I don't have a fur shader or something like that, so it looks pretty human
And some people might disable shaders anyway
covert linden
It wasnt a shader, I think he had a lot of polys because he was genuienly furry
I wish I had taken a picture so I cpuld show you
covert linden
Neither does kermit
woven steppe
I mean you really can't stop people's imaginations
covert linden
I mean you can if they ban you idk
I think youd be ok but like, if possible id see id its possible to get it checked maybe first?
woven steppe
I personally always have the content warning "nudity/sexuality" or whatever it's called ticked.
don't know if it does anything or not tho
tacit plank
Even if I get the judgment of a staff member, another staff member might see it differently
still lark
It doesn't do anything
tacit plank
I could send a link, but you're not allowed you send mature content on here
covert linden
If yoy make it flatchested maybe?
woven steppe
Better have it ticked regardless. People have different thresholds of what counts as "nude" or "sexual"
tacit plank
It's pretty flat, but you can still see it's not a boy
covert linden
I dont know if that setting even does something, I vaugely remember someone saying it doesnt but im not 100% on that?
tacit plank
Staff has said that it's completely unused
woven steppe
just tick all the things!!! rawr
covert linden
Thought so
woven steppe
"Realistic Violence"... My character can ragdoll...
covert linden
I did gestures wrong on my avatars, slowly im getting better but like on one of the faces the eyebrows go up and down
And thats on the blushy grin one anso people think it was on purpose
woven steppe
just roll with it
tacit plank
If you edit anything while you have a shapekey selected, the change will only apply to that shapekey. Sometimes dividing and combining meshes with cats will copy shapekeys to other bodyparts, so that talking makes your arms bigger and such
woven steppe
although now that some people know it's a mistake.. probably best to fix it at some point
covert linden
No it was one of the faces in unity I did
I had they keyframes ser properly but my.guess is one of them said 0 and the other 100
Issue is idk how to fix it I only know how to not have it happen again
tacit plank
Oh, yeah, if the frames are different it will cycle between them really fast. It's difficult to copy-paste frames because you need to click in the right place, and to have all frames selected
covert linden
But Its not a model ill use regularily its just a loli one
Not this one
I was told it looks like a blue wendy from wendys
tacit plank
Lol, I see, sounds unique
covert linden
I dont want it anymore
woven steppe
does anyone else measure how tall their avatar is?
ruby burrow
Avatar testing map has measuring sticks.
vocal shard
That too
ruby burrow
Or that ^
Can use unity cube. It is 1m by default.
woven steppe
4'6" For my ava
vocal shard
Tiny itty bitty baby Ach
covert linden
I just use a cube and guess
ruby burrow
So set your cube to your desired height in meters, and move it to match your avatars head and feet to check their height.
woven steppe
I measured mine in sketchup...
vocal shard
Mine is 4'11
woven steppe
exported mesh as obj and use a 3d modelling program designed for furniture and buildings...
ruby burrow
I really need to get a 6'1 avatar, just to be able to swap to occasionally to see the game in true scale (according to my usual natural perspective).
ruby needle
Not using metrics 
ruby burrow
Are any of the default avatars 6'1 I wonder?
covert linden
I try to make all my avatars like 5"1 or 5"2 because thats my height irl
still lark
You mean real units
ruby needle
yeah
ruby burrow
I'm all for Metric in most every other scenario, but I do actually really like feet and inches for measuring people.
woven steppe
Im equally versed in Imperial or metric... Imperial is always just the easier one to type with a phone.
ruby needle
no, just no squishy
woven steppe
I personally like my distances measured in metric but my speed in imperial
ruby burrow
They divide into useful and easy to visualise steps.
fallow prawn
i keep getting logged out in vrc hmm 
vocal shard
I use both (canada make up your mind!)
Lol
west fossil
I cant even play VRChat tbh. I cant login
woven steppe
which annoys me to no end in any racing game that doesnt allow it
ruby burrow
181, is too big a number, with too few mid way reference points. Eg, being 2 inches under or over 6 foot.
fallow prawn
oof
umbral reef
@west fossil What does it say then
ruby burrow
Just about everything else is metric for me.
ruby needle
181 exactly lets you know how big it is insted of using 2 values and doing math
covert linden
Im canadiaan so no metrics ewww
west fossil
@umbral reef I should try again later. I got logged out like 5 mins ago and can't login with steam or VRChat account
ruby burrow
But a persons height varies by more than a cm over the course of a day anyway. Factoring in imperfect stance also, it's more precise than is necessary.
woven steppe
Network is lottery
ruby needle
but even there meters/centimeters go more accurate then inches and feet
vocal shard
@covert linden we use metrics.... O.o
(But mix in mach. Lol)
woven steppe
mass is where I like weird measurements
ruby burrow
There's not really any math needed for height in feet and inches. Just a series of reference points and easily visualised adjustments.
woven steppe
like stone and hundredweight
still lark
Well you can easily visualise anything if you remember
ruby needle
yes
ruby burrow
5 foot = short person, 6 foot = tall person. 4 foot= child/tiny person, 3 foot = half a person. Give or take some inches, etc.
woven steppe
I prefer the british hundredweight of 112 lbs instead of the american 100 lbs
still lark
That's how you know what 5 foot 6 inches looks like
ruby burrow
So my brother is "Tall+3"
ruby needle
???
ruby burrow
6'3.
woven steppe
it helps that the imperial system literally used to be equated to human parts lol
yards and feet
ruby needle
except that every human is different
ruby burrow
Yeah, it doesn't work in that regard. Never met anyone with a 30cm foot.
spark seal
yo anyone else getting problems logging in
ruby burrow
But I just find it well divided for personal height.
ruby needle
Anyway, let us get back on topic 
ruby burrow
I guess to do the same for metric, you'd have to mark the divisions at every 25 cm, or such.
woven steppe
yep but its naturalness is what makes it more conversational... Sure Id use metric if You ask me to design something... but Id used imperial in day to day activities.
still lark
3rd times the charm FPaul. :P
red stratus
I weigh myself in Stones, I buy my milk in Pints, I travel in miles, but I buy Juice in Litres, when I DIY I do everything in mm and m.
I couldn't tell you how to convert Stones to lbs, Inches to Yards, Yards to Miles or Pints to Gallons.
Such is the life of being a Brit
dark narwhal
Stones?
ruby burrow
My avatar weighs 0 stone. Can be carried by a tiny bug, if it has a chair mounted.
woven steppe
14 lbs
umbral reef
Just use the best unit and not those fake ones :^)
ruby burrow
Though I prefer Kilos for weight.
red stratus
I buy sugar in kg
dark narwhal
I prefer rolues
woven steppe
besides... pound cake sounds better than "slightly less than half kilo cake"
dark narwhal
Kilo cake sounds good
safe prism
i use whatever people give me and i don't really fuss
red stratus
Stone is this weird thing I think only Brits and Aussies use. Maybe SA and Canada but I don't know.
safe prism
i use metric more often on my own tho, even though i'm american. i know how to quickly convert out
woven steppe
stone is just 14lbs though... easy enough
red stratus
yeah but I can never remember if it's 12 or 14, despite being told
because Imperial is dumb
dark narwhal
Cup suze is the only important measurement change my mind
safe prism
why would a stone cost 14 quid like i can just fucking go outside and pick one up for free
red stratus
People in Glass Houses shouldn't put on Stones
woven steppe
being equally versed in both may just be a result of being exposed to both
dark narwhal
People should not live in glass houses
safe prism
do you think Duwane "The Rock" Johnson™ has a glass house? what if he gets thrown out of it
dark narwhal
He probably goes through brickwalls anyways
median basalt
You can't link to that site here
woven steppe
back on ava height... I too thought 4'6" was small but thrm I end up looking down at 80% of the people I meet.
brittle sky
k?
median basalt
People are so small in this game
woven steppe
I have a friend who I saw eye to eye when I first met him 9 or so months ago... now his eye is level with my mouth... It seems every new avatar he made was a tiny bit smaller than the last.
umbral reef
That insta delete 👀
woven steppe
dont worry.. Its still in the logs
umbral reef
Still need active staff to check it 👀
But big odds it was a discord advertising or an shitty af website
brittle sky
was just stating that there isnt a rule against linking to vrchat mods site 👀
polar bone
There's isn't a rule but it's frowned upon in this discord
umbral reef
There is though--
brittle sky
there isnt, but maybe rule "13. No discussion of piracy, game ripping, or links to pirated/ripped content" could be considered on this site?
umbral reef
Jup- Falls under that
polar bone
Yeah, the site has a lot of that
umbral reef
The bot auto removed the links after all so--
brittle sky
well i thought this shit was hilarious https://gyazo.com/7806bf5b1cdd2ac16f4a52d209d06c5a
polar bone
You can't even say the name lol
brittle sky
Found that out the hard way 😛
woven steppe
no discussion of piracy...
polar bone
Most optimized avatar is actually just to use an empty game object
I've done it before and you're completely invisible because there is no avatar
brittle sky
i wonder where the grey robot when you disable avatars falls under?
fringe glade
Bang bang bang
woven steppe
and we have endess talks about dynamic bones... the assets of which may or may not have been aquired legally 
polar bone
hmmmm
polar bone
I don't use dynamic bones
Except for a select few of my avatars
And even then it's only like <10 bones
woven steppe
I spent $20 to use it on 13 bone transforms... worth
polar bone
Then there are the people who used dynamic bones on every like accessory
woven steppe
it is on sale now tho... half price
brittle sky
@woven steppe Christmas present for me?
well im stiff as a board rn, the sdk isnt recognizing dyn bones for me
woven steppe
nop...just use cloth... it only costs you fps... instead of $10 and fps
brittle sky
lol nah, cloth isnt worth it
polar bone
is cloth unoptimized af?
fluid notch
Anyone else having an issue logging into the game? it just loops on the login screen nonstop.
brittle sky
woven steppe
use small number of vertices... basically dont do what I do
brittle sky
never saw a real purpose for cloth physics, ...none that was worth dealing with potential issues imo
ruby burrow
The new performance measuring tool did reveal some surprisingly excessive avatars. More than I was expecting.
ruby needle
i mean, the public pedestral rations allready had me prepared
brittle sky
if the game would run on more than a single core, i bet alot of the "performance issues" would go away.
ruby needle
but it does
ruby burrow
Things like male avatars with short hair, and no moving clothes, still having dozens of dynamic bones + 300 collider transforms for hair strands not even 10cm at their longest.
polar bone
If people would optimize avatars I bet issues would go away
ruby burrow
So many cases of straight up pointless wastefulness.
woven steppe
just make things toggleable
brittle sky
having excessive amounts like that is silly
polar bone
Still though, if everyone had a few dynamic bones you would still probably lag
ruby burrow
My own hair is one bone for most strands, and two bones for the two longer strands. I've received compliments on how well it moves. Simply no need for 100s of bones on short hair.
woven steppe
Essentially.. only turn on your wiggly stuff when you are chillin with like half a dozen friends.
ruby burrow
That's the thing Bran. Nearly everyone does.
umbral reef
Just look at tuppers video about dynamic bones he made
polar bone
I would love a toggle for dynamic bones
brittle sky
or long hair, merge the weights on half the bones, still looks the same
ruby burrow
Go around a room and you'll find 80% of players with crazy things like that.
umbral reef
Its pinned within optimization
Shows how laggybones the script really is
polar bone
Merge the whole hair into one bone lol
hollow umbra
i got the i7 7700k and it's smooth af no lag'
polar bone
Lucky
hollow umbra
merry christmas to me
umbral reef
@hollow umbra Is smooth a constant 90 FPS? every where anywhere?
brittle sky
lol nah @polar bone 2-3 at least
hollow umbra
yes @umbral reef
umbral reef
Even with 20+ in the room?
hollow umbra
yes
woven steppe
My gamr is smooth...
polar bone
@brittle sky no I mean make the whole wig a single bone so the whole head of hair moves lol
brittle sky
OH XD
polar bone
OPTIMIZE
polar bone
I had a few avatars I didn't realize had unmerged meshes when I made my world public
woven steppe
20fps in full pug or with 5 friends... almost always 20... give a frame up or down
polar bone
Sometimes I play in desktop mode because I don't want to deal with lag
brittle sky
i honnestly wonder who the people are with the performance problems, cause ive been in plenty of rooms with 25+ people, and the only thing that lags the world is someones stupid particles or shitty shaders
umbral reef
Unless its a fur shader that shit wont lagg and unless the intentionally fuck up particles they also wont lagg
polar bone
On the topic of shaders, everyone should specify how their avatar should look with standard shader before you use your custom cubed shaders. That way when people turn off you shaders you still look good and not a grey mess
umbral reef
For real- Watch tuppers video and then return
What you see isnt what the math shows and what is fact...
brittle sky
meh, idc how i look to someone runningthe game on a computer from 2005
woven steppe
Im not sure you could run the gamr with a rig that old
polar bone
Also everyone should learn how to make their own shader, even if it's just in shader forge. There are so many cool things that you can make if you know how
woven steppe
I seem to have inconsistent trouble hitting e with my phone...
brittle sky
see, im basic, i like my simple poiyomi flat lit shaders, and im g2g
woven steppe
Shaders and particles were something I skipped and never learnt
brittle sky
no need for all that moving neon shit
topaz lance
Saw an avatar that caused lag but somehow had excellent rating
topaz lance
So the system needs tweaking as well
woven steppe
because the rating as rokk said is only calculated on load
polar bone
I make Fortnite avatars and sometimes I want to recreate an effect in game, shader forge is great at that
umbral reef
@topaz lance Every but one fur shader causes hard fps hits
Also- The rating does not work for edge cases, there is a reason you can request more info on avatars
polar bone
There's no easy way to quantify the lag a shader can cause without running tests
woven steppe
Id like it to update on the fly but I guess thatd cause lag too
umbral reef
Would tbh neat to be able to clone your own avatar ~20x times to see how bad it is
And even better a ingame performance checker that unity for example has
brittle sky
I doubt something like this would be possible, but having a whitelist of shaders would be cool, and able to turn off shaders that arent on that list
woven steppe
you could oclac
polar bone
But that wouldn't work well though, as someone could modify the shader and it would still think it's a certain shader
woven steppe
ive done it with an older avatar... I could put animated copies of my avatar on the ground with a fixed joint and with working cloth physics and the like.. of course not perfect but I could make a small army of myself...
alternatively... ask friends to help
digital sparrow
Tuppers newest dyn bone video is kind of misleading.
If you have the Transform visible in the inspector while moving something around that has, particles, some shaders or dynamic bones, it'll run poorly regardless. Hide it and it'll go back up to whatever max your PC is capable of.
The whole thing can be replicated and run perfectly >60 with a game rip model (that have hundreds of bones in just the face alone) with the transform hidden and it runs smooth af.
polar bone
Aren't fixed joints broken ATM?
woven steppe
its a different joint thats broken I think... my fixed joints still work
vocal shard
(regarding the video) Isn't it lagging when in view because that's when it's rendering......
glossy wharf
Fixed joints for world objects are broken
glossy wharf
Not gonna argue about this.
hollow umbra
maybe it's broken for you because you are not using the latest sdk
woven steppe
I mean if it works then it works... if it broke... then it broke
polar bone
So when I use fixed joints to put something down, how do I make it so that when I put it back down it always appears in front of me
polar bone
what
hollow umbra
you are talking about world objects right?
digital sparrow
@vocal shard no its lagging because the fucking UI of Unity. Transform visible is causing it cus of all the digits
fringe glade
Tzuyu actual cutie
topaz lance
Most of my avatars I found out are easy fixes. Literally have to delete one thing and I go from poor to excellent. I got off easy
delicate stump
Im at medium, having trouble merging a pair of things
earnest harbor
RIP some model worlds now :(
umbral reef
They had ages to optimize
And the ones who are cheating the system soon will also be gone
Not sure if id say even RIP to those
tiny ginkgo
Good evening lovelies
vocal shard
great rank system, had no idea u get demoted when u block ppl
You don't....
Unless it was a coincidence
stone current
y would that happen
people might be streamers, have lag issues, hate laggy avatars, etc
and have a huge block list
median basalt
You get demoted for removing friends too
vocal shard
i dont know, i blocked 2 ppl, and got instantly demoted lol
they were spaming random shit in the box map
stone current
i havent been demoted and ive blocked several crashers and laggy losers
vocal shard
i didnt remove any friends, i have 150 avatars and 4 worlds and 300hours, nopw im user again
this is great
earnest harbor
I love how skewed the view is for "optimized"
umbral reef
Almost all users are extremely uninformed about the subject
earnest harbor
Must have nothing special or it's unoptimized! Want an anim to pull out a sword? Poor ranking!
empty wharf
The avatar ranking system, I feel as though while it says your avatar is poor, I don’t really believe every parameter makes it destined to lag you.
vocal shard
Why would that put you to poor?...
empty wharf
I have an excellent avatar and a very poor, the very poor doesn’t lag someone. But my excellent one made them lag.
earnest harbor
Multiple meshes and materials
vocal shard
You can have multiple meshes and materials and be good
empty wharf
Nope my excellent is also like 8k polys
umbral reef
Its just a second mesh?
Can go without a problem to medium or above it
@empty wharf Let me guess- Its the shader being a cunt and lagging
polar bone
It's skinned meshes that get you
empty wharf
My very poor has a lot of cloth verts tho
Possibly. But my very poor has a better shader and the excellent hasn’t been touched since like..March
earnest harbor
I mean, I'm just going to keep my models as is, with or without the ranking system.
vocal shard
100% sure vrc devs made so if u have poor avatars or very poor avatars uploaded, ull get negative score points to the ranking systems
subtle prawn
These are the maximum per rank
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387443655687798786/525808189741203471/avatarperformance.jpg
umbral reef
You should not see the system as one avatar causes lagg
Me carrying a backpack with 10 kilo aint to hard
Adding just 2 kilo extra doesnt make it that much wose
Do those 2 kilo's 20+ times... and well RIP my back
topaz lance
I ran around with a very poor avatar and no one was complaining to me
empty wharf
@vocal shard nah. I became trusted one update ago. Hasn’t dropped me.
umbral reef
They should have imo
Poor avatars should only be judge if you know whats up with optimazation
Very poor avatars have no excuse to be used within public worlds
empty wharf
The system is misleading. But the rank description tells people that it lags them.
empty wharf
My avatars are pretty optimized. But consider very poor. They’re private but even still.
umbral reef
@vocal shard What does it say
earnest harbor
What if the reason my model is very poor has no impact on performance?
umbral reef
@empty wharf Again- You can claim they are optimized but unless you show us the avatar no one can judge it
subtle prawn
Medium at best should be minimum goal for people
umbral reef
@earnest harbor Then you broke the system by using nothing--
topaz lance
Excellent ratings can cause lag and very poor can be good performance. System needs tweaking badly
umbral reef
I refer you to my stone explanation if you think different
vocal shard
having 149 avatars uploaded and 3 worlds and still user, nice system 
vr chat loadin , then login and is no way to login
earnest harbor
Tris have minimal performance impact
umbral reef
@topaz lance Its not made for edge cases
Its almost imposible to check for something like a Fur shader and give a rating to that shit
Gold- You said very poor optimized 👏
tight galleon
Meep
earnest harbor
So above 70k is instant is very poor 👌
umbral reef
And should earn you a ban 👏
tight galleon
It doesn’t calculate an average
umbral reef
Not like the SDK limits you for using way to much polygons that are not needed at all if you took time to decimate it
tight galleon
If you’re one over on anything it affects your rank
earnest harbor
Just ban everyone with overly models then
tight galleon
That would be more than half the user base
median basalt
They could feasibly start issuing punishments over 70k since 70k is a very reasonable limit and a ton of models are under it
umbral reef
They said this is version one of the system and want to modifie it still to something that does work with points instead of hard caps @tight galleon
vocal shard
impossible it says welcome to the world , then login again and verchat loadding
tacit plank
The ingame rating system is not a very good measure, apart from Polygons, Meshes, Textures and dynamic bone transformations
umbral reef
If your avatar has over 70K and you claim you cant decimate it to below 70K
Your not using anything normal at all or plain lying
earnest harbor
We will see how many streamers and youtubers get banned too!
vocal shard
They already said in the future they will look at averages. So that complaint is covered
please let me know when it works
rigid crescent
_> another 14 hours straight of VRC
earnest harbor
I mean, I'm here talking to an echo chamber, so whatever.
tacit plank
If you're above 70k, it's starting to become a problem, and there's no good reason why you should be above. My avatar is very smooth already at 40k
tight galleon
I had an avatar that was high poly and gave it to tupper and he just looked at me and said “what the fuck Yui” he couldn’t even do anything with it.. so no it’s very possible to have models that can’t be worked on
rigid crescent
No, you're talking to people who aren't breaking TOS forehead
umbral reef
Not really- My mind has been changed already on this system so~
rigid crescent
Yeah, so has mine actually.
earnest harbor
Again, echo chamber.
rigid crescent
OK gold what's your point exactly?
earnest harbor
All it is every day.
rigid crescent
Maybe I missed it, im a bit late to the convo
umbral reef
@tight galleon My current avatar would like to speak then
I had to remodel parts because they included 70% of the polygons...
Legit no one knows the difference with before and after.. Just a few hours lost
tacit plank
I disagree Yui. I used a model which was a Blender render file. Just changing mode in Blender would teleport the meshes around and break it.
But I have it in VRChat now, and it looks great and has a "Good" rating
rigid crescent
We disagree all the time lol
umbral reef
Tbh we are more on eachother troats in here then agreeing
stone current
at least 100k polys
rigid crescent
yeah that's a fact
stone current
like max
tacit plank
Anything above 70k polygons is wasted. Any model can be reduced to a few materials and just 1 mesh in a few minuttes
topaz lance
This system is starting a civil war in vrchat lol
rigid crescent
That's every update
umbral reef
Nah this chat is always like this
stone current
yea but u cant always only use a mesh
umbral reef
Its in a constant state of "Ow X is true" "No it isnt"
stone current
if ur doing cloth or something u need multiple meshes
rigid crescent
Kareeda has been making Good ranked models with weapons and whatnot
umbral reef
@stone current You get to use 4 tho 👏
rigid crescent
just make it a shape key
subtle prawn
stone current
there was someone who had a flag on their avatar
tacit plank
I've never needed more than 1 mesh, but I guess cloth could use more. Still, your performance will only be rated as bad if you go above something like 8
rigid crescent
He's got like 120+ models and the goal is to make them all at least Good ranked before republishing
umbral reef
And its better to use dynamic bones for most users then cloth anyway...
Cloth can cause more problems faster if done wrong then dynamic bones
stone current
instead of using cloth they like used an animator and a 50 shapekey animation
umbral reef
@tacit plank Cloth legit needs a seperated mesh
stone current
cloth causes problems if u don't use it right
rigid crescent
Also why do you say an animation to pulll a sword out gives you Poor ranking? Shouldn't it hit you to medium?
stone current
if u actually know how to use cloth and set it up correctly there will be a lot less issues
topaz lance
Morality sadly isnt judged by the system. I saw someone with a kkk model and it had an excellent rating
tacit plank
You'll never need enough cloth components to get a "poor" avatar rating though
stone current
^^^^^
umbral reef
Well true- But its hard for most.. Just wanted to drop that in chat for other users
tidal aspen
they probably mean an animation with loud effects and a shit ton of particles lmao
languid beacon
In terms of nameplate drawcalls: Do we really need the friend icon? Since they turn yellow anyway
tacit plank
Some of my avatars are rated bad too, but it's only because I'm lazy and because of snail markers being tagged as worse than they are
rigid crescent
I mean I block them anyway, Wunder
brave star
im very poor irl so my avatar rank works for me
umbral reef
@topaz lance Well- Atleast its optimized 👀
And thats the only thing that system cares about
Also i assume you took screenshot and reported him to moderation@vrchat.com right 👀 ?
subtle prawn
You don't need to carry around a light show constantly. Switch to it when going to show it off
rigid crescent
Exactly. Just make 2 models. 1 with, 1 without.
stone current
yea ik that
umbral reef
@languid beacon Oi dont use common sense when talking about nameplate drawcalls!
stone current
but light show avatar very poor even thp no lag
rigid crescent
Damn, I feel you Snapback
stone current
just lot of particles
rigid crescent
Do 20 people doing the lightshow lag?
umbral reef
@subtle prawn Hey Hey Hey! No using logic in here! What insane person would make a public optimized version and a less optimized but fancy one for friends or small rooms!?
tacit plank
Lights are bad in the same sense that mirrors are
subtle prawn
:>
stone current
but then again how does vrchat differentiate a lightshow from a hentai lag cannon
topaz lance
Yea I reported the guy
languid beacon
I have green star version for public, and normal for everything else
umbral reef
@topaz lance Awesome job then >3
tidal aspen
how else am i supposed to make friends without BLARING particles and sounds
subtle prawn
lol
tidal aspen
you mean I have to actually talk wtf
tacit plank
Having a light prevents Unity from batching things correctly, and makes every single avatar calculate shadows again
stone current
ive seen avatars with a swastika armband but i don't rlly know if that counts as anything
umbral reef
@tidal aspen Ow shit yea forgot most peeps within this game got no personality at all
tight galleon
@tacit plank just because have have an experience under a circumstance doesn’t mean that the opposite can’t happen
languid beacon
:C
stone current
is it technically racism or something?
tacit plank
That's probably an ooka miku with a "Kawaii force" armband or something, it's not a nazi model
rigid crescent
Yes lol
umbral reef
@stone current Can be reporeted and users can be banned for it yes
tidal aspen
you can report their avatar
stone current
makes sense
tacit plank
Lights on avatars are bad, period
umbral reef
If its really a bad model- But that depends. Its not as easy with some stuff that its an insane yeet
languid beacon
it's all about context. is it a tasteful World War II recreation? No? Then yeah it's probably gonna get reported.
tight galleon
So if I were to say I once dropped my phone in water and it lived, doesn’t mean if you do the same you’ll have the same outcome
subtle prawn
No offensive materials in public!
stone current
why isnt stuff like that bird avatar conpletely banned
umbral reef
@tight galleon
stone current
where theres a nazi song that plays and a nazi uniform
tight galleon
All models are different and there are many variables
rigid crescent
Wunder, how do you ban it?
stone current
the avatar itself
rigid crescent
Is it in a world? If not, how do they know it exists if it isn't reportd?
umbral reef
Rip- entered before typing
But just because yu guys have diffrent exepriences does not mean the math, facts and proof are also wrong...
stone current
like the avatar
tacit plank
Lights are bad, period
stone current
not just the user but the avatar itswlf
rigid crescent
OK, yes, the avatar Wunder. How do you "ban" it?
subtle prawn
Lights with shadow... oof
stone current
becomes unusable
rigid crescent
Is it in a world?
topaz lance
Like I said the system only checks for optimization not if the user is being an asshole
stone current
deleted off vrchat or something
rigid crescent
Is it in a world
umbral reef
To stay on phone in water
The thing has water damage and corrosion will happen faster what shortens it lifespan
Even if you throw it in rice and bullshit
stone current
yea
rigid crescent
OK, then report the world.
stone current
idk which one but a lot of people use it
rigid crescent
Or report the user and the avatar and they'll track it down.
stone current
and users too
subtle prawn
It shows author now in the stats no?
rigid crescent
It's bannable, it just hasn't been reportd.
stone current
users cant upload so (and is before allow copying)
subtle prawn
or can that be blocked?
tacit plank
Mirrors are bad because anyone looking towards them will render the world twice. Lights work similarly
rigid crescent
they can't ban something they don't know exists. Simply report the users and eventually they'll get to it.
stone current
but i don't get why
rigid crescent
WHat don't you get?
topaz lance
Im sure the guy is gonna be banned once the mods get the report but the system wont do that. I wasnt being serious I was simply messing around
stone current
why would it render the world twice is it an optimization issue
bc if u were using something like raytracing
u would just bounce off the mirror and render that
rigid crescent
Because you have two eyes
rigid crescent
I think the desync would be iffy if you did that
stone current
no it would run wih all the lighting
rigid crescent
even a slight desync between eyes is going to make things unplayable
tidal aspen
the mirrors render everything twice because it sets up two cameras iirc
stone current
yea
tidal aspen
and uses that for the reflection
stone current
thats why im confused
tacit plank
I very much doubt Unity uses raytracing, but currently how it works is that it basically renders everything again, from the players perspective and the mirrors
tidal aspen
raytracing would be way more expensive
stone current
cuz i weote a raytracer before
tacit plank
You're not allowed to, but you can view the code if you're very interested
stone current
and it would take the same amount of time relatively to draw a scene
polar bone
raymarch
median basalt
The reason mirrors work like that is because they use an existing prefab for them
Which uses a camera and a script, and a shader
stone current
instead of doing multiple renders
tidal aspen
yeah that too
stone current
yea its like a render target thing
median basalt
Mirrors are always gonna be costly. Their solution is the easiest that doesn't break culling if you have the mirror disabled.
tacit plank
Won't stuff at a distance look bad with raytracing?
stone current
not really
rigid crescent
I'm already Raytracer
stone current
at like a huge distance probably
tidal aspen
it would depend on how many rays are sent
stone current
and ^
but more like the resolution, screen size, and FOV
larger FOV, larger viewport, and smaller resolution both widen ray angles
tacit plank
VR is already expensive without raytracing
tacit plank
They'd probably have to change all the Unity settings and some more to make it work with RTX
stone current
doesnt the new one already do that
clever edge
so i need help i don't know why but each time i upload my avatars to vrchat they wont show up in my avatar tab i all ready tried refreshing the tab and also logout and back in and starting the game up again. in unity my avatar show that they are published but wont show up still. any help plz? I'm on the new unity for vrchat
rigid crescent
Unity version is probably wrong.
umbral reef
But il write it out instead
Are you sure your using the right unity version
Are you using the most up to date SDK?
topaz lance
Im slightly annoyed that I have to reupload all my avatars but could be worse I guess. My stuff is mainly jist deleting extra stuff
stone current
all 5.6 avatar have funny mirror inversion bug too
umbral reef
@rigid crescent tbh right now id rather wish id get idea's on what to add there
clever edge
is it not this one ?
tacit plank
The changes in the new Unity are minor
rigid crescent
They'll come in time.
rigid crescent
No it's 2017 .15f
tidal aspen
it's 2017.4.15f
stone current
yea
rigid crescent
.17 is what messes people up lol so dont get that one, and dont update .15f
clever edge
unity 2017.4.17f1
tidal aspen
if you don't have that version get it
umbral reef
Its the one you can find within the link i send
Can even find adownload link there somewhere
stone current
u cant download it on the hub without the link
clever edge
link?
timid musk
I ran into the same problem when I made my very first avatar. Had the wrong Unity lol.
umbral reef
https://vrc-community-docs.gitbook.io/docs/faq/unity-faq if you want a link for unity hub or a direct download link
Im liking the doc already even though its far from done
Makes linking stuff sooo much easier
topaz lance
I misread that link for a seco d lol
clever edge
i need to download the unity hub?
topaz lance
It makes it a lot easier
clever edge
they should update the list
ruby needle
actually since this is the new version the hub is not really needed
you can get rid of the old one and install the new one normally
it was recommendet for the beta cus you'd be going back and forth.
subtle prawn
^
timid musk
I just had a thought and please no anger it just dawned on me. If everyone can see what avatar is causing them problems and block them then what was the need to put heavy limitations on avatar worlds? Not trying to start a fight because I know some need the limitations it's just a thought
subtle prawn
Not everyone uploads their own avatars, so it'd be nice if avatar worlds keep their's "optimized" there wouldn't so much "bad" out their being used. 🤷
vocal shard
Of course everyone's red, it's christmas you dummy /s
Red and green fits together
Tbh I still don't understand the red/green thing. I just have all avatars on.
errant vault
Unfortunately, we usually fight each other in matches
timid musk
I do think they should be optimized too to the best of their ability but public avatar users are now restricted to things that may not be as good looking. If there is something that is great looking, optimized the best it can be, but still isn't within regulation then the public user misses out on something they could use for private use rather than public
vocal shard
vocal shard
Ahhh, thankies.
languid beacon
Anyone know where i can get the wireframe shader used in Avatar Testing, or something similar?
not for avatars but just something similar for testing
timid musk
I currently use dynamic bones but I will make an avatar without it for public use. As of right now there is no point because I can't get on due to the login problem anyway lol.
languid beacon
logins seem finehere
timid musk
It's for some people
golden spear
Same. I'm fine
umbral reef
@timid musk 👌 Awesome that you atleast care about trying to improve public lobbies
golden spear
Oh
errant vault
It takes awhile to load avatar testing world
timid musk
I do care, I don't have the best of internet so I know what it's like trying to deal with people with very heavy avatars. If it's in a private world with friends I don't mind but in but in public I can see it as a problem. I don't usually go to Public worlds regardless but it would be nice to have an avatar on hand when I do. Though I do think since people can see the avatars that is giving them problems and block it there shouldn't be an issue in public avatar worlds having some dynamic bone avatars if the creator did optimize it accordingly so Public Avatar users have something to use in private
umbral reef
Well im all with you.
I hope others will also... But seeing as how some of the current 'big' content creators dont give a fuck its sad to see.
Might be harsh but im all for calling out very poor optimized users and if you know what your doing calling out poorly optimized people within public worlds 
I want my 40 users room once the IK updates again
umbral reef
Want to bet i can cause you problems with any simple avatar?
vocal shard
RIP
hasty wedge
not possible i have a i9 OC'd to 6 ghz the IK is nothing in my eyes
umbral reef
@vocal shard Fyi- Im fully against the colors on name plates and ect because that does promote bias actions.
Avatarsis something any retard can change. A user rank isnt
I dont want to see your 200 dynamic bones with 6 colliders
@hasty wedge All it takes is just a few fur shaders 👀 Those are even within limits 
patent rampart
not all "Very Poor" Users are actually very poor.
You can look and see, a lot of false info with the ingame software that detects it.
Like counting particles as materials two times.
Or sometimes counting things on your body as separate skinned meshes, when they're not.
(all one mesh).
It still needs work.
@umbral reef
errant vault
I'm a desktopper so...
umbral reef
@patent rampart Dont have to tell me that dude- I know how optimazation and shit works
There is still no reason to not make an avatar that follows the rules for public worlds and one for smaller rooms or friend rooms 💤
errant vault
Rogur
umbral reef
And there are more worse bugs then you just wrote down--
vocal shard
uwu
patent rampart
Yes, but the current software on what you're talking about.
People are bashing other models when they're indeed not poor at all.
umbral reef
@vocal shard If they use it within public worlds? Fuck yes-
If its within a small map with low user count or friends? Lmao why would i give a shit
I can slap some dynamic bones and animations on my current avatar and still be good or medium optimized
umbral nova
Is that the R E A L KingTodd?
This optimization thing
I swear until they add weight to it
umbral reef
@patent rampart There is a reason i said- Only judge poor models or above if you know what your doing.
Anyone can limit there stuff- Even with the bugs or when pulling off more 'advance' things (Beside snail trails) to be listed as poor/medium for public worlds
patent rampart
If you even add 1 dynamic bone script, you're automatically set to poor.
I have a kagane with very few bones in it, and it does that
(ingame software seems to be set to 0 for how many dynamic bones it wants).
hollow umbra
my avatar is fully optimzed except for one thing. i apparently have too many rigid body
patent rampart
Ig you see tons of separate skinned mesh, and 30+ materials i understand
@umbral reef
errant vault
Good thing I'm green
patent rampart
Yea, i ignored that one all together @hollow umbra
my sasuke sasanno, i used regibody to control it's whole arm.
insta poor.
(only appears when i use animations)
umbral reef
Fairly sure with how my avatars are all properly optimized while not losing any of the 'fun' stuff for public worlds- Yea, fairly sure i do
hollow umbra
rigid body makes this game worth playing
umbral reef
As?
errant vault
Ai scripting mechanics would be endgame
umbral reef
Because just because it doesnt hurt as badly like dynamic bones or cloth doesnt mean its aye owkay
Feel free to assume all you want without knowing anything about me 👏
Its how i like it
world audio 
?
patent rampart
Unless VRchat team can make a Dynamic bone script themselves for the use Vrchat only.
We gotta use the one in store.
If everyone complains about the script being unoptimized, why don't we just have one meant for the game.
(like an alt for bones moving)
umbral reef
Still you assume I use that avatar
@patent rampart Takes a fair while to make and make it less poor
And they have expressed that they want to make something like that
@vocal shard Short hair with dynamic bones
Dont have ears but got horns that are animated
But even my non main one- Who doesnt have that
(As its a girl one) runs fine with the rules being at medium while having a shirt and 2 ponytails
errant vault
Yes, they are all red
rigid crescent
I don't plan on insta-blocking avatars just because they're ranked a certain way since not all the ranknigs are properly weighted, but i notice a lot of the world avatars don't even try
patent rampart
That is good, i had been here for 15 months and been making models for over 14.
I see no alt to dynamic bones that Vrchat will allow.
@umbral reef
but we should not be told, We're insta poor for have 1 or 2 dynamic bone scripts on our models.
vocal shard
I still haven't gotten performance issues with very poor avatars.
rigid crescent
You're not
patent rampart
^
vocal shard
And I have a crappy CPU atm.
rigid crescent
Poor is 16 scripts.
umbral reef
@patent rampart actually you cna use 4 scripts with 16 transforms while being at medium
patent rampart
i said this before.
most models marked Poor are not poor
vocal shard
You can be good with dynamic bones...
umbral reef
@vocal shard Because that isnt how computer works man
ruby needle
for good @umbral reef
medium is 16 component 32 transforms
and 4 coliders at a max of 8 checks
patent rampart
@umbral reef
false, i just told you about my kagane.
The ingame software seems to be set to 0.
umbral reef
Thats a bug- Not the norm
errant vault
Rogur
rigid crescent
A good thing to report on he canny though.
umbral reef
@ruby needle My memory aint that right then
But point still stands- Its even easier to get atleast a medium ranked avatar
rigid crescent
You should duplicate the avatar in unity, upload it under a new ID, then stop using the old one and give them the ID on a canny report stating what is showing up incorrectly.
patent rampart
I can't even have my insta transmission effect (on) when i upload.
i tells me i have 16K particle mesh, when it's only 1 particle for lines.
And it double counts it 2 times for materials.
this has already been reported btw.
its just an example
rigid crescent
oh good, hopefully they fix it
errant vault
Yes, still fun
rigid crescent
"No fun" lol people love my little demon Umaru
umbral reef
You know what i find less fun?
The current state (before the update) of public rooms
dark narwhal
lel not easy if u want a "good" avatar
rigid crescent
Yeah i find low FPS fun.
umbral nova
@umbral reef VRChat missed the opportunity to make an a avatar ranking called "maliciously unoptimized"
umbral reef
I legit always play in them once i got time to play- but shit man compared to months ago they are way worse
@umbral nova Thats called old avatar worlds :^)
umbral nova
Lmao
rigid crescent
You know what's no fun to me? This. https://puu.sh/Clomr/9cdf23a732.png
ruby needle
holy shit 
edgy karma
I have a question for people with vive.
Should i buy the audio strap or would i fair better in getting a separate headphone set
rigid crescent
No one expects you get Excellent, Atlas.
ruby needle
^
vocal shard
Oof
rigid crescent
No one even expects you to get Good
umbral reef
@vocal shard Again- Does it need to be very poor and not just medium for public lobbies?
rigid crescent
And even if you are ranked at Very Poor, you can still not not as bad at the very least
who needs 2500 collisions? seriously?
If they're in the red, they want you dead.
umbral reef
@vocal shard So why is me calling out users who run very poor shit without valid reason bad then?
ruby needle
this happens if you dont know what you are doing.
errant vault
Be green like me
rigid crescent
This happens when they won't take down worlds they know are unoptimized. This is one case where I can shit on moderation, in that regard
They absolutely 100% without a fucking doubt know the most popular worlds. WHy is it so hard to take a look at them?
There's poorly optimized and there's maliciously unoptimized imo
patent rampart
Not all. XD @rigid crescent
umbral reef
No- I stated within my message. More then once even for a fact.
That i am against POORLY optimized avatars and calling them out
And only for saying something against POOR optimized people if its without realistic reason (Aka using 40 materials and shit)
rigid crescent
I don't care if you've got a few hundred transforms, like maybe 200 or so. I get you want nice hair/skirt whatever
errant vault
Imagine optimizing ai bots after udon update
rigid crescent
But what gets me is when people make zero effort to merge any bones and abuse colliders
umbral reef
Poorly is more then just poor...
And within the first few msgs i even stated very/extremely poorly optimized
errant vault
So much syncing
rigid crescent
In what scenario do you ever need 30 materials?
rigid crescent
I can make an avatar with 5 avatars inside of it and not be 30 materials
umbral reef
https://i.imgur.com/OrBoQGo.png just to be clear-
errant vault
They share textures
vocal shard
Intentionally low poly models ftw
rigid crescent
I think calling out is a harsh phrase to use tbh oclac
patent rampart
I can understand very poor.
Most of it, is the poor rank users, are not really poor.
XD
ruby needle
depends
umbral reef
Only if you know what is acutally wrong with avatars-
Most users would call a poor model out for a to big of a bounding box :4head:
And no one gives a shit about the semi performance hit that causes
rigid crescent
I've been informing friends and others that have complained about their rank, not really bitching, but stuff like "Oh wow, this avatar is ranked pretty bad"
"Yeah you can just merge the materials, blah blah blah shotariya is great"
"Try merging some hair bones or skirt bones, there's a good guide on youtube"
umbral reef
There is a reason i say my shit- Its not like i dont think and type
If someone is running a light source on a public avatar i feel its totally owkay to yell at them
Also as mic said- I wont go running around "Oi fuckface optimize ya shit!"
rigid crescent
You know why they allow it? People would bitch and moan if they didn't.
You know the alternative to this system? Limits. Hard limits.
umbral nova
I mean they're gonna make hard limits soon anyway
rigid crescent
They aren't placing any hard limits on us, as of now, because they know we still want to be able to make nice things, but at the same time the exceptionally unoptimized nice things have no place in publics.
umbral reef
Unless you want thinks like Udon to never happen we have to deal with this btw
errant vault
Next vrchat update, avatars marked very poor cannot be used in public worlds
rigid crescent
Because they're placing a certain trust in users that most really haven't earned to begin with
umbral reef
Also- I will bitch just as hard about things like nameplated being so badly optimized
Fucking 20 drawcall booyysss
languid beacon
Is it possible to increase the up-down FOV of the VRChat window render to match VR's? I notice when I play in VR, the FOV on the window is much, much lower than when i play in desktop mode
umbral nova
I don't think so.
umbral reef
@vocal shard Still better then harrasment and instant bias for things you cant change like nameplate colors (Trust system)
rigid crescent
They allow us to upload the most unoptimized pieces of trash because they know we want to have nice things, and as I said, these things have a time and place, and that's not in public lobbies.
languid beacon
this would allow me to stream without using oculus mirror which is laggier
umbral nova
I'm no genius though so don't take my word for it
icy tangle
You can try the display mirror in steamvr
languid beacon
that just gives the VR render
rigid crescent
The alternative to this ranking system for avatars are just hard limits across the board.
hasty wedge
might aswell have all avatars blocked by default then gg
rigid crescent
and those hard limits would probably be capped at Medium
hasty wedge
if u care about le framez
umbral nova
20 materials for nameplates
languid beacon
the VR mirror doesn't turn into the stream camera
rigid crescent
ignore the troll folks, don't feed into them
umbral nova
Double the amount allowed on public avatars
vocal shard
Did someone say "le"?
hasty wedge
im perfectly satisfied with my 23 dbone colliders
ruby needle
umbral reef
I have prob been the most vocal against that things in here- So trust me. Im not for ruining users experiences for bullshit like that.
But i find that very poorly optimized avatars are preventing this game from growing.
Before everyone had dynamic bones and the same mmd bases we had way bigger less laggy rooms...
And then we had less programs split over cores and worse optimized
hasty wedge
it looks really clean 👌
errant vault
Good for movies, bad for games
umbral nova
RTX on
vocal shard
PC Combusting
languid beacon
So you're saying my feature for "only allow X ranked avatars in" worlds isn't a good idea
umbral reef
Legit some of the avatar worlds where so badly optimized that you legit had peeps running around with a second Ik + Voip system in dynamic bone format...
Running with 3K transforms + colliders on any avatar is stupid 😂
How is me asking them if they cna optimize there shit next time harrasment?
Or pointing them towards proper avatar worlds
umbral nova
Lmao
errant vault
Encouraging optimization is harassment?
umbral nova
Agreed
languid beacon
Let's use hide avatar, instead of block. Block is something else. If you block someone for their laggy avatar, you're kinda weird. 😛
umbral reef
I still call them out for there avatar- I am not harrasing them :4head:
umbral nova
Wanna know how to get good skirts? Just weight paint them to the legs.
hasty wedge
cause why use something optimized over something u enjoy using if its a public world model
rigid crescent
Yeah that usually has harsh implications
hasty wedge
vocal shard
You wanna know what's the best avatar? A 2D one, get out of here with those fancy textures and physics just rip an image from some manga and make it an avatar 
rigid crescent
Because the public world models that are unoptimized are breaking the rules to stay up.
umbral reef
@hasty wedge Because most public avatar world creators are verrryyy special
hasty wedge
thats not a gud reason my dearest individual
rigid crescent
Public Avatar World creators like to replace the avatar ID on existing avatars to prevent re-uploading.
umbral reef
And you find me behavior insane 😂
languid beacon
@vocal shard oh hey, uhm, u know u should optimize
icy tangle
No you should optimize it
rigid crescent
Those worlds need to be taken down and the IDs privatized.
I'm sure they can detatch an ID on their end, actually
umbral reef
@rigid crescent Fairly sure tupper said they check a few hours after worlds get uploaded if stuff changd with there botto-
But some worlds are still up so i question it
icy tangle
Then optimize it and ppl will stop
rigid crescent
Yeah they do check Oclac, the problem is worlds like Shonzo and Black n White and the others have'nt reuploaded since october
vocal shard
@vocal shard hey there good sir, I don't want my PC to explode, could you please optimize your avatar and not unintentionally attempt to crash me? ty
umbral reef
@vocal shard That just shows people want bigger worlds with better avatars...
Takes sooooo much effort and pride to optimize it a bit for public worlds only?
sullen escarp
that doesn't help that much, you could just wait like a day before doing it
rigid crescent
RedMage, not everyone even knows about the list, you think they know about the re-check?
delicate stump
will my medium rated avatar survive
languid beacon
What about a room full of everyone wearing your avatar?
umbral reef
Again- You using that logic shows you dont understand how calculating works
rigid crescent
One person rarely matters. It's when the entire room is unoptimized that it comes into play
vocal shard
I'll lose some brain cells talking to you tho
sullen escarp
@rigid crescent tupper literally said that's how it worked, why would anyone not do that if they knew
not to say it's a good thing obviously
rigid crescent
Well let's take a look at the public world list
umbral reef
And why dont you play in bigger worlds if i may ask?
errant vault
The box
umbral reef
And why might that be?
icy tangle
We all have a responsibility to optimize our avas as much as we can and im proud to do my parts with my avas and worlds both
errant vault
Rogur
lethal meteor
I'm going to reimport this into vrchat and see what avatar rank I get
rigid crescent
Well private and friends+ yeah
errant vault
I always go to public
dry marsh
or pug/open mic
rigid crescent
Friends+ are basically Public+ lol
vocal shard
Not most, not most. That's an overexaggeration. There are plenty of good public worlds
umbral reef
Because within this game almost all avatars are badly optimized 👏
You can even talk to owlboy- He lowered his world cap because of performance even though he improved his map...
Gee- I wonder why (Also i dont evne like the dude as most regulars here know thats why i point you to him)
topaz lance
I am going to do my best to optimize my stuff but if I can't get above medium on some of them I won't lose sleep
rigid crescent
@sullen escarp The information on what gets a room declined is public. Worlds still get declined because their avatars break the rules. You think a lot of people will know about a statement tupper said just off-handedly in the public beta discord while messages fly a mile a minute? They can't even read the rules and get their world declined even after trying to circumvent uplaod.
lethal meteor
umbral reef
@topaz lance You dont need to go above medium though
Aslong as you stay away from very poor people wont really care at all so far i noticed
lethal meteor
what score would that get 😛
umbral reef
@topaz lance Also you can always ask here for help- People will be happy to help
queen mango
Not noticeable from a first glance, Maya
rigid crescent
look at that garbage Fullbody Avatar World. It got declined and had been avoiding upload since, what? Halloween? I
errant vault
That team of lolis would be red
topaz lance
@umbral reef my biggest concern are the people who are gonna be the Excellent or nothing people. Sadly they will exist
queen mango
Cept for the lights
languid beacon
What's wrong with Excellent or nothing people? :p
rigid crescent
I have one excellent but it's my goofy small avatar lol
umbral reef
@topaz lance I got one of those avatars myself -- Its pure for public worlds
I will be swapping constantly to medium optimized ones for animations and shit
And within private rooms il legit not look at what rank il have
rigid crescent
Umarus, by nature, are already atlased lol
vocal shard
@rigid crescent @queen mango @umbral reef @languid beacon I like you guys, just gonna make that clear. Please keep being yaselves and being informed about stuff in VRChat
errant vault
My Rogur is Excellent Green
queen mango
Why concerns for "Green" avas? 
dark narwhal
Excellent means ur avatar is going to be so basic
umbral reef
@vocal shard Seen the stuff me and Sai are trying to do?
topaz lance
So I just looked at the ugandan knuckles avatar...it has excellent rating...I smell bias.../s
umbral reef
@dark narwhal Atleast without instant movement- Can still be visually pleasing (materials and ect)