U can force bullshit stuff on people
#vrchat-general-2
vocal shard
vocal shard
oh lmao
well i wasn't planning on anything like that i really just had vehicles in mind
mighty galleon
i only saw one person with it, i tried it, not that fun
halcyon ingot
thanks for your input sean
mighty galleon
yes
ruby burrow
I need to learn some stuff before chairs come out. Need to be able to make a mount for someone.
median basalt
Custom sit animations would be nice tbh
On avatar chairs
I'm gonna laugh if they have fully featured custom animators before our avatars do
Like worlds have
tranquil perch
i thought chairs could be told to have a custom animation
or did that not work on avatar chairs?
halcyon ingot
it worked
but the question is will the chairs we can put on avatars have custom animations?
I doubt it personally
ivory folio
does anyone know how to fix the double vision effect with shaders for vr users?
tacit plank
Is there some "stereoscopic" value you can reduce?
median basalt
@ivory folio calculate the "center eye" position and put the image there
It's based on the unity stereo index, a variable available to determine if you're currently rendering in the left eye/desktop (0) or right eye (1)
I think you want to shift it to the right in the left eye and to the left in the right eye or something like that
ivory folio
oof how would I go about doing that?
median basalt
TCL posted about it in #development-advanced some time ago
ivory folio
is there a unity variable for that
median basalt
I am way too lazy to imgur this so I'll DM you the message
humble marsh
Does VRChat support clapping now so you could like do a high five and get haptic feedback and audio?
ruby needle
no
tranquil vortex
No
humble marsh
Okay.
halcyon ingot
NO
ruby needle
there is no interactions (yet)
tranquil vortex
There never will
ruby needle
you can do clapping with sound if you do a animation but also no feedback
humble marsh
Never? ๐ฎ
tranquil vortex
Probably
humble marsh
Oh okay.
humble marsh
Yes but doesn't mean it can't be implemented.
ruby needle
@tranquil vortex dont say that. interactions are very likely on the roadmap
lilac swan
AFAIK it's marked as planned on canny. When it will get implemented is another matter however
humble marsh
It would be very very satisfying.
karmic bear
@lilac swan That means nothing
lilac swan
If you say so
humble marsh
If you could have that.
tranquil vortex
Satisfying how?
humble marsh
Mentally.
tranquil vortex
You finally get to touch your loli gf (actually bf)?
humble marsh
Like you and your friend win on Battle disc and you do a high five and you can hear and feel it.
tranquil vortex
You hold a remote...
humble marsh
Haptics is important for prescence.
humble marsh
I disagree.
halcyon ingot
vrc doesnt need anything
tranquil vortex
It needs optimization
halcyon ingot
oof risky emote, i like it
tranquil vortex
Not my fault people run the game on potatoes
humble marsh
But sure there's probably room for a ton of optimization too.
vocal shard
Just remove all custom content and you can only use a small 500 poly avatar with one material so you can only choose one color for it
Here, game fixed, no stealing, no more crashes and no more fucking lag.
Enjoy your stay.
still aurora
doesnt it only use one core
median basalt
It does yeah
vocal shard
Cant do that without updating the unity version
And oh boi is that going to take a long ass time
still aurora
rip
cause it kinda sucks im frame lagging, but i know it shouldnt really be happening
tacit plank
I believe that you will lag with 50 people, even if everybody's avatar is the default unity cube
According to an old message I saw by some staff
still aurora
rip
median basalt
Yeah
Although having a cube instead of something like Y bot will help due to the lack of IK
boreal rose
Anyone see avatars loading in and it says "VIP" with a red outline on their name?
Seen it a few times on the Africa meme world when folks spawned in
inner cape
Any world, anyone. If they joined the world, it's fine
uncut trail
Heard people getting banned for exceeding poly limit ?
tacit plank
Haven't heard of that happening, really, but you probably shouldn't tell mods that you've done it, or share how it's done with anybody
ruby needle
it is possible if you get reported for it @uncut trail
but it's rare, lets say it that way.
uncut trail
Nope just got msged by friends who getting 7 day ban cause modded SDK files
ruby needle
๐
jade heath
#freetheSDK
tacit plank
Did they admit it? And did they mod other things? (giant avatars, ant-sized avatars, earrape avatars which bypass the sound limits, etc)
opaque robin
There is that and im pretty sure they would have to ban nearly every avatar creator ever if they are because loads of avatars are above the 20k poly limit
jade heath
Almost ever avatar is over 20k ๐
ruby needle
no
jade heath
Every*
ruby needle
quite a few mod the sdk (and break the tos with that)
but there is more then enogh who care
tacit plank
I believe it's okay, the staff are just hoping that people who bypass the limit have gathered enough experience to optimize their avatars before doing so
ruby needle
it's not ok
tacit plank
Not officially
tacit plank
Technically, you're not allowed to say "cyka blyat" or have an avatar with visible panties either
median basalt
@uncut trail let me guess, that's the Halo Discord or something
uncut trail
nods
uncut trail
Really ?
median basalt
I heard about that from a friend
still zinc
how long per say do you estimate when i can upload avatars
tacit plank
20-40 hours, unless you do well at whatever the system wants
Which your name makes me doubt lol
ruby needle
Becoming verified by the trust system is based on reaching a not time based trust score, which's exact algorithm is unknown to prevent exploitation.
You presumably need to play the game in a normal manner with your VRChat account, walking around, meeting people and also making some friends. Idling won't help.
According to many responses in this discord, a rough estimate would be ** 20-40 hours**, but big exceptions are possible.
Make sure you are not using a steam account because those can not be verified and continue playing the game until you get a notification or e-mail.
http://help.vrchat.com/knowledge_base/topics/why-cant-i-upload-avatars-or-worlds-yet
keen mesa
getting banned for using avatars with more than 20k is straightly retarded
there is no difference between 20k tris and 64k tris
a single material affects perfomance more
ruby needle
you name it retarted
but no matter how sense making or not the rules are
breakling rules is breaking rules
keen mesa
that rule is retarded
ruby needle
thats not up to your decission
plus polys do matter after a certain point
not that much of a problem with this game but "no impact" is still wrong
keen mesa
yes if you have a intel celeron integrated gpu
no impact
literally
there is impact if you go over 65355 tris because Unity splits mehses over 2^16 tris
and that doubles the materials
tacit plank
It's 65535 lol
median basalt
Even then it's not a perceptible difference
ruby needle
it barely makes any impact
keen mesa
still no difference
median basalt
Start with dynamic bone and materials instead
median basalt
Textures are probably much bigger than your whole model
ruby needle
which everyone always ignores
median basalt
Like a lot
keen mesa
a single dynamic bone has more impact
ruby needle
possible
tacit plank
I have a world with 1.5M verts and only 3 textures, it runs so fast that my FPS counter breaks and goes above 90 on desktop
tacit plank
But avatars are dynamic
ruby needle
its fine for worlds to take a lot
keen mesa
it's so small it's literally less than 1 ms
granite coral
you cant have over 20k polys
ruby needle
thats actually what you wantto waste polys on
granite coral
but you can have a quad with 2000 materials
tacit plank
It has to calculate verts and how they interact with weight painting etc. Still, it's not a huge impact
keen mesa
vrchat is CPU bound
granite coral
nice logic
ruby needle
that highly depends on your GPU
keen mesa
any modern GPU will do it
unless you have a shitty laptop integrated GPU
and you play in desktop mode
tacit plank
Sometimes I lag to hell while my friend has nice FPS, other times I have more FPS than him. I have a good CPU and a bad GPU, he has a 1080 and a decentish CPU
keen mesa
in that case you shouldn't even play VRchat
tacit plank
30k-40k would be ideal
keen mesa
65535 would be ideal
tacit plank
10k difference is not a ton for processing power required, but it's +50% which means decimating actually becomes possible
keen mesa
modern GPUs can handle millions of tris with no problem
tacit plank
Avatars bend constantly, they're not static objects, so they're not as optimized as worlds
granite coral
a medium vr ready card can handle around 10 milion polys worth of meshes with standard like shaders bouncing between the 45-90fps (there's the thing that when you cant have fixed 90 fps directly halfes it, so it would be close to 80fps constant i guess). now that would be like 100 users with 100k polys each
keen mesa
the big hit is IK + DB
granite coral
so saying that poly count is the problem is straight up wrong
tacit plank
But you're at least right to a degree. I think the limit is there just so that new players learn how to use blender and what tris are and how things just work in general, before doing dumb things
keen mesa
if world geometry is marked as static you can have tens of millions of polys and won't make a difference
keen mesa
at the current state of vrchat never
tacit plank
You can't really go above 50 without lagging due to IK and sound and such things
keen mesa
and banning people for bypassing retarded sdk rules will simply make people fustrated
and will move on to an alternative when it's avaiable
tacit plank
It won't be
ruby needle
why do you think its mostly tolerated untill someone reports them?
granite coral
at this current state will never be possible, cause the lag you attribute to polys comes with ik, uspeak photon, dynamic bones and such, so you will never be able to have 100 users in one room without going to 1 fps, even if the mesh for an avatar is a literal cube
keen mesa
will never be possible in Unity 5
tacit plank
Nobody dares to allow 100% custom avatars to be uploaded onto their servers, with the responsibility of bad press if any users do stupid things
granite coral
is not an unity problem
still zinc
well ive played for about 34 hours
keen mesa
it is an unity problem
still zinc
got a few friends
keen mesa
the Job System isn not avaiable in Unity 5
still zinc
so idk how much longer it will take
ruby needle
Becoming verified by the trust system is based on reaching a not time based trust score, which's exact algorithm is unknown to prevent exploitation.
You presumably need to play the game in a normal manner with your VRChat account, walking around, meeting people and also making some friends. Idling won't help.
According to many responses in this discord, a rough estimate would be ** 20-40 hours**, but big exceptions are possible.
Make sure you are not using a steam account because those can not be verified and continue playing the game until you get a notification or e-mail.
http://help.vrchat.com/knowledge_base/topics/why-cant-i-upload-avatars-or-worlds-yet
granite coral
the job system is not even production ready yet
tacit plank
Don't get blocked or muted btw, it will probably slow it down
ruby needle
we'll eventually get a unity upgrade
granite coral
so dont' count on using that until next year maybe for big sized projects
keen mesa
vrchat code is a disaster
granite coral
i agree
still zinc
i havent gotten blocked or muted to my knowledge
granite coral
and that's why is not an unity problem
you can have the best unity
but if with that you use terrible code
ruby needle
just keep playing @still zinc
tacit plank
Well, to be fair, Unity sucks
granite coral
is useless
ruby needle
you're propably close
still zinc
hmm got it
granite coral
unity is not as bad as people frame it
tacit plank
I've helped a friend test his world
keen mesa
doing multithreading in Unity 5 is almost impossible
granite coral
not true
keen mesa
doing it in Unity 2018.1 is easy as fuck
tacit plank
You won't believe how many weird problems we ran into because Unity just didn't want to function like a normal program
edgy spade
so are people getting banned for just having 20k+ avatars on their accounts?
granite coral
i call it fake honestly
edgy spade
cause i swear all the streamer's probably have 20k+ avatars, idk tho
ruby needle
unless there is something really bad of a abuse and someone reports that, no
it's not officially allowed tho
keen mesa
of course they have
tacit plank
If your avatar halves everyones frame rate because it's 30 textures and multiple meshes (say, 100k-200k polygons) you could probably get banned for lagging others
edgy spade
yes it is against the rules, im just asking questions is all, i usually decimate models to below 20k
vocal shard
most models below 20k looks like a dope
edgy spade
im just afraid for friends and streamers is all
granite coral
you know that unity uses c# as scripting language? you can multithread witht that, the only limitation is that you can't make unity api calls with that, but you can definitely put the heavy logic on a thread and give the result back to the main thread when it needs api calls
tacit plank
Otherwise I think you'd have to tell a mod you've modified your SDK, forcing him to ban you because ignoring it would make players not care about the rules
keen mesa
I know lol
ruby needle
@vocal shard if someone who knows what they are doing does it it can look suprisingly good
keen mesa
but you have to mess with shit
ruby needle
it's just that most people are literally complete beginners
keen mesa
with the job system it's literally 3 lines of code
edgy spade
cause most people who import their first models are noobs
granite coral
ToS point 5 b, telling a mod you have modified something in the sdk can't result in a ban
ruby needle
point 9
bypass any security or other features of the Service designed to control how the Service is used, harvest, or mine User Content from the Service, or otherwise access or use the Service in a manner inconsistent with individual human usage;
if you really want to do references 
granite coral
modifying the sdk=/= breaking limits
ruby needle
its bypassing content control features
granite coral
so telling that you modified an sdk to a mod can't result in a ban
median basalt
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the TOS mentions you are allowed to modify source code but not object code
granite coral
not necesssairly
median basalt
TOS*
ruby needle
limits are content control measurements
granite coral
what if i added just an extra check to make sure my model isn't over 20 material?
ruby needle
and point 9 clearly disallows bypassing them
ruby needle
if you are bypassing the 20k poly limitation which is a content controll feature then you are
periode
granite coral
but again
modified sdk =/= bypassing limit
how many times i have to restate that?
jade heath
Imagine the people who paid for a commission and are getting banned for their avatars
granite coral
did you read at least what i said?
ruby needle
yes
if you add your own limit
no problem
but if you modify or remove the existing one
you are bypassing a content filter
granite coral
"ToS point 5 b, telling a mod you have modified something in the sdk can't result in a ban"
anything in there states about removing limits
so why going on?
my original statement is still valid
ruby needle
i dont get your quote
granite coral
is literally the first message you responded to
with the point 9 of the ToS
when no limits breaking were involved in the statement
ruby needle
yes ok
sure
just telling a mod you modified something does not mean anything
but c'mon, we all know what use case we are mainly talking about
poly limit, sometimes audio or size limit
granite coral
for the use case, you can go over the 20k limit without modifying the sdk, cause the sdk limits only the active polygons
so it doesn't go against point 9 of the ToS eighter since the limit put in the sdk is clearly an active poly count limit
and that means that there is no limitation to inactive poly count
ruby needle
sure that is a actually legit methode
even if im not sure if you can count that as byapssing still
but it's definitely not as easy to argue against then the sdk mod
granite coral
and now the question: what's the point of the poly limit then? you can legit do it without breaking any rule, but for doing it you have to make you avatar heavier by adding animators to activate a mesh on runtime, which is counter-productive for the whole optimization reason it's put in the first place
icy tangle
SUPER QUICK QUESTION What Unity version are we on for the SDK
granite coral
5.6.3p1
edgy spade
it was that version when i joined the community in november of last year
vocal shard
So modded SDKโs players are being banned?
ruby needle
No
median basalt
There's no confirmation on that so far
vocal shard
Okay ;-; sadly all my avatars are over 20k so I hope not
ruby needle
Unless its a very bad violation and someone reports you for it
mainly sound limit's
(when abusing that)
granite coral
the ban message is probably fake, cause the statement in it is objectively wrong, so wouldn't be smart to put it there
warped thorn
You also probably shouldn't say that your avatars are over the tri limit on you know. The official discord.
Because all it takes is one report for an investigation.
median basalt
Nikei is over 20k
vocal shard
slightly over
median basalt
Nikei is pretty unoptimized anyway, the only saving grace is that he does not have any dynamic bones.
ruby needle
yes 
granite coral
nikei is over 20k if i remember right
vocal shard
even the shoulder positions are weird
median basalt
He's like 21k
granite coral
which is hilarious
next glade
doesn't matter if its "slightly" over
it's still over what should be a hardcap on polys
granite coral
"you cant go over 20k" default avatars in the game are over 20k
ruby needle
let's not kick of the discussing for another round ๐
ruby needle
we just had a discussion on that
next glade
mb ill shut up
warped thorn
(shrug) I'm not the one that makes the rules. But you still have to follow them. Also, this isn't the place to discuss this.
granite coral
the discussion was over uploading over 20k poly avatars with the sdk
this is more like "why default avatars are over 20K?"
wasn't really a discussion
warped thorn
You still shouldn't do it. Also, this isn't the place to petition the rules.
next glade
models can go up to 400k polys and barely cause any fps issues so idk what people are on about further up
tacit plank
In Blender maybe, Unity is retarded, so above 65535 polygons it starts splitting them
It's not in a logical way either, the right ear and left leg may be one mesh, while the rest is another
warped thorn
Take it to the canny. Not here.
halcyon ingot
Ye, how dare you discuss vrchat issues in #vrchat-general-2
tacit plank
This is the least off-topic we have been for a while, it should be fine
warped thorn
Again. This is not the place to petition the rules.
tacit plank
And I don't like missing out on chances of criticizing Unity
warped thorn
Oh, criticizing Unity is fair.
next glade
alaylle like just a heads up u wont be banned from this discord for discussing rules
u dont need to literally dicksuck the admins and tos here
warped thorn
(shrug) Horse, water, drink.
tacit plank
I made a 1.5m vert world, it split randomly into many pieces, and caused all the mesh colliders bounding boxes to overlap and lag. I had to manually split it and reupload
ruby burrow
Just reading through the last hour or so of discussion here, people like to make absolute statements too much.
It's kind of silly to see an argument where everyone is essentially in agreement, continue on for an hour purely over phrases like, "zero difference" and "never".
tacit plank
It's to be expected from adults who spend most of their time roleplaying as cute wolf girls in virtual worlds
vocal shard
lmfao
tacit plank
Can I mention how this game seems to appeal to autistic people without getting in trouble?
median basalt
It kinda does though
vocal shard
idk๏ผ I have no problem socialising in real life, but when it comes to vrchat, i chicken out
tacit plank
They tend to be knowledgable, but also stubborn, so yeah. And that's interesting, I'm the opposite
vocal shard
And become an autistic mute most of the time
ruby burrow
I suppose if you're using the word literally, and not as a general insult, that might be fair.
Hard to give any real basis for though.
@vocal shard People seem to react to VR Chat in different ways. Personally, I'm braver in VR Chat, but not to the degree I was hoping I might be.
Although that perhaps partially stems in the fact that I have almost never had an opportunity to play the game without someone else being one wall away in my house.
I'm forced to keep my voice relatively subdued. Would be nice to have the freedom ( or the don't give a shit attitude) to get a bit louder and energetic occasionally.
vocal shard
That reminds me of a case
tacit plank
I have to wake up in 4 hours so I'm off for real now
vocal shard
Where a lady saw her husband asking kanna to give him a blow while wearing vr
warped thorn
I know how that is. Stupid thin walls. Good night, @tacit plank !
ruby burrow
VRC also attracts a certain amount of "entertainers" and other dominant personalities. The kind of people who are able to maintain a presence even whilst playing on desktop. It can sometimes feel hard to keep up with that.
vocal shard
Unaware that his wife is around
ruby burrow
Lol... oh dear.
tacit plank
Yeah. Good night! It was fun chatting with you guys
And yeah I'm trying to avoid similar situations
ruby burrow
Luckily my walls are brick, and block sound fairly well. Benefit of living in a place prone to flooding.
halcyon ingot
please dont lewd the lolis sir
vocal shard
ah yeah
socializing in vrchat is weird
sometimes i meet a nice person who i can have a nice conversation with
ruby burrow
I also only live with my two brothers, who are both equally as nerdweeb as me. So getting caught giving Kanna a blow wouldn't be a disaster, just something to get laughed at for.
But naturally, I'd rather not be heard saying bizarre things, seemingly just talking to myself at night.
halcyon ingot
vocal shard
most of the time i just watch groups from outside while they're having fun talking to each other
warped thorn
Same here, @vocal shard
vocal shard
the few times i attempt to interact i don't really accomplish much unless i'm lucky
median basalt
I do that a lot too
vocal shard
but tbh i'm bad with these sorts of situations anyways
median basalt
But at one time someone said "hey, someone's watching us from afar" and I got approached by 6 people at once
halcyon ingot
ill talk to you rokk
median basalt
All saying something
vocal shard
lmao nice
median basalt
Couldn't understand a word
ruby burrow
I generally dislike the idea of people creeping into my room, and watching what I'm doing through my own eyes. Kinda unsettling thought. So I turn my monitor off before booting up VR, and put a bubblewrap sleeve over the monitor.
vocal shard
i just hide the window with another one
if someone wants to get to my computer they have to get past me first anyways
most of the time i just find myself wanting to talk but not having anything interesting to say
ruby burrow
The bubble wrap that the Vive box comes in is so damn convenient for that. It folds into a flat sleeve with one side open, and is literally the perfect size for all standard monitors.
They should really advertise it on the box as a deliberate feature, even though it's not.
vocal shard
interesting how that works though
sage pewter
What parts of Occulus have usb cables?
ruby needle
the HMD has one
vocal shard
the headset has one and each sensor has one of its own as well
ruby needle
each sensor has one
ruby needle
1x HDMI 1x USB 3.0 required and 2x 3.0 preferably
but the sensors can operate on 2.0 just fine
they do work in 2.0 mode with compressed images then, but my personal experience has not showed a bad impact on that over 3.0
especially once you ad a third sensor
(which is recommendet)
vocal shard
nevermind actually
sage pewter
So with the hdmi cable, the headset is already going to be plugged up to the back of my computer
ruby needle
well
that does with any video cable
doesn't it? ๐
picture has to come from some where ๐
sage pewter
and a pci-e usb port expansion is more direct and faster than a floppy bay usb port
compact flint
getting banned for going over 20k?๐ค
compact flint
no this is a topic
vocal shard
then kill it
compact flint
not needing it from you but from everyone in this discord
ruby burrow
Probably going to need to see some evidence of this rumour, if there's to be anything to discuss about it.
compact flint
no someone i know did
halcyon ingot
there is currently an image being spread around many vrchat communites of a guy who got 1 week ban for sdk modification
kindred briar
then he probably had a modded sdk which arent allowed
halcyon ingot
not going to go into specifics
halcyon ingot
but he modified the sdk in a way that is more than most people do
which is why he got banned
compact flint
bypassing polys
ruby needle
i know one personaly who once got a ban for a giant
ruby burrow
I've never been banned myself. Does anyone know which methods the reasoning for bans are given to players? Eg, in game message, e-mail, etc?
ruby needle
else its mainly to loud things (abusing)
halcyon ingot
modifying the sdk isnt even against tos
ruby needle
it is
polar jasper
It is
halcyon ingot
it isnt
compact flint
which what happend from what he said
halcyon ingot
check the tos
halcyon ingot
tos section 5 b
ruby burrow
Because if the reasoning is given by email, that can be screenshot and end this "Yes" "No" "Yes" "No" cycle.
ruby needle
@cunning quail did you got as low as ยง9 ?
bypass any security or other features of the Service designed to control how the Service is used, harvest, or mine User Content from the Service, or otherwise access or use the Service in a manner inconsistent with individual human usage;
given limitations are content control features and bypassing them is clearly forbidden
5b allows things like the vismee fix and such
polar jasper
(iii) modify any of the SDK Object Code included with the SDK;
ruby needle
i need to make my selfe a copy and paste template
polar jasper
For what, reading the ToS? ๐
compact flint
having a poly limit regardless if it is allowed by the tos , will break creativity,and in my opinion i think it would be in there best interest to keep there player base content, that's all i have to say,
ruby needle
fair enogh
tranquil vortex
I kinda agree with that one
kindred briar
every avatar that I decimate under 20k looks like shit anyways if it's not a tiny avatar
tranquil vortex
I feel like the poly limit should at least be higher
ruby needle
30-40k
kindred briar
50k would be good
tranquil vortex
I find that most models looks pretty decent at the 30-50k range
ruby needle
20k can look good tho if you know what you are doing
ruby burrow
Limits are sensible, and vital to ensuring the game remains playable.
Nonsensical limits, are not sensible, and not vital to ensuring the game remains playable.
I think most people agree with that.
ruby needle
but it also depends on the avatars complexity
tranquil vortex
Yeah, but i dont want to be stuck looking like a ps2 character
tranquil vortex
you're either a high quality loli model, or a GTA Vice city on PS2 normal sized model
ruby needle
well... that is quite a bit more difference ๐
ruby burrow
Given the actual performance costs, I'd put the limit at the point before unity starts splitting meshes, and start investigating more effective methods of controlling or rating performance costs of avatars.
kindred briar
pretty much
vocal shard
which is 65534
kindred briar
tbf the thing what really causes lag is the amount of garbage people put intheir avatar and hide it that causes the real lag
ruby burrow
I'm sure that the devs have discussed this of course, and have plans for the future. What and when these plans can be implemented however, we obviously can't know.
tranquil vortex
Really? I havent heard of that
ruby needle
material limits! please yes!
vocal shard
if you include the hidden one, most of the time i have over 80k though
ruby needle
and actually make somethign that forces you to suit em
kindred briar
How about you allow people to upload avatars > 20k and people get a option in the menu if avatar > 20k that you can autoblock the loading of the model
tranquil vortex
I think thats pretty fair
kindred briar
so they don't start crying with their shitty hardware
vocal shard
30k-40k for normal avatar, another hidden 40k as a dancing model
tranquil vortex
Ahm really?
tranquil vortex
Like those emotes where there's like 3 diffrent characters and shit that pop out?
ruby needle
it makes peopel go even more over teh top
ruby burrow
That wouldn't make much sense though Patriek.
ruby needle
as they start telling you to use the setting
kindred briar
no I mean 30k-50k limit still @ruby needle
kindred briar
I didnt mean unlimited
ruby burrow
You'd be implementing an auto block feature, that would essentially be tricking the games players into thinking it would help their performance, when it honestly wouldn't be.
vocal shard
i use 5k models as a popup dancer
ruby burrow
It'd be a trap people would fall into ticking for no reason, and then wonder why performance was still bad.
tranquil vortex
lel
kindred briar
Never have any problems with it after blocking one of those shitty cheaters/laggers
tranquil vortex
Alright
in all seriousness
there are also custom maps that are poorly optimized
ruby burrow
No, I mean that the difference between 20k and 60k is almost irrelevant to the games actual performance. It wouldn't help.
vocal shard
well, vr have to render 2 times
kindred briar
I know but people always complain about it
it's better to add it in then that people start whining about it
vocal shard
so your 60k is more like 120k for them
tranquil vortex
I still dont feel like its the tri limit that is the problem
ruby burrow
The auto block might block a whole load of well optimised but higher ploy avatars, yet would ignore the 200 dynamic bone lagfest still in the room.
It'd be a worthless feature.
halcyon ingot
@vocal shard the game uses single pass stereo rendering so it only renders once in vr
tranquil vortex
vocal shard
ah
tranquil vortex
gotem
ruby burrow
Well you suggested it being based on blocking 20k avs.
tranquil vortex
same shit
halcyon ingot
is still once
tranquil vortex
Why would it be twice?
halcyon ingot
running 2 pcs?
vocal shard
someone told me the wrong info ๐
halcyon ingot
Its not hard to assume it renders twice
vocal shard
then i feel less guilty using high poly shit
halcyon ingot
a lot of games do
vocal shard
thanks
halcyon ingot
no problem
halcyon ingot
pretty sure the desktop view is just your left eye
tranquil vortex
i feel like its more or less comes down to people who abuse the system and go wayy beyond the limit by hiding shit and abusing particles
halcyon ingot
may be wrong tho, feel free to correct
the issue, as people said is nonsensical limits currently
up the polycount to 65k, limit materials to 10
ruby burrow
If the official limit was raised to 65k, the community would actually switch to actively objecting to tampering with the SDK.
It'd be seen as lazy and greedy instead.
ruby burrow
Since there'd be no denying that it was both unnecessary AND had a definite performance hit.
compact flint
materials and texture res matters the most, draw calls , and the version of unity we are using, and the fact its not supported version anymore
halcyon ingot
exactly fin
vocal shard
i have concern about updating unity though
kindred briar
sdk doesnt support newer unity versions
vocal shard
lets say that the unity got upgraded, is it possible that it might render my older avatar mute?
halcyon ingot
and the longer we wait
kindred briar
right?
halcyon ingot
the worse it will get
@kindred briar sdk only support 1 version of unity atm
but with they updated the games unity version, they would update the sdk too
tranquil vortex
you would hope so
halcyon ingot
@vocal shard Unlikely
but the thing with updating the unity version is that a lot of things will break honestly
tranquil vortex
Port the game to the Unreal engine
halcyon ingot
and they will need to fix them
tranquil vortex
halcyon ingot
but they will in time
ruby burrow
Updating the engine for an ongoing actively played game like this is tricky. If it was all in studio, having a month of down time working out fatal bugs after switching wouldn't be a big deal. For VRC though, it could be a real nightmare.
halcyon ingot
Personally I think they just need to rip that bandaid off
ruby burrow
I'd rather not need to learn unreal engine to make my avatars. : |
tranquil vortex
World of tanks recently redid their whole engine about 2 months ago
halcyon ingot
we will get bugs
ruby burrow
Unity is plenty flexible and powerful for what VRC needs. It's openness is an advantage for this kind of project.
tranquil vortex
And the transistion was super smooth and there was like no downtime
halcyon ingot
world of tanks has a much bigger team
ruby burrow
But it would be nice if it were possible to keep it up to date of course, yes.
tranquil vortex
Yeah it does
ruby burrow
The current up to date version of unity has built in support for things like physics oriented mesh particles and such.
tranquil vortex
WG is a huge team
ruby burrow
Without needing a clever shader to patch the gap.
compact flint
i would rather deal with a new version of unity than being on a old unity
halcyon ingot
same
tranquil vortex
same
If there was like some subscription service officered by VRCteam, that helpled them develop quicker
i'd be down
halcyon ingot
This has been brought up before
I would rather they just charge for the game
Even if it isnt much
5 bucks
Having that barrier would only do good
ruby burrow
That would likely kill the games influx of fresh players..
It'd also raise new legal hurdles since it would classify as a purchased product, with all the consumer protections implied.
halcyon ingot
I don't think that is as much of an issue as some people think
gmod does the same and is fine
you are paying for the default game
as given with all vrchat owned assets
anything else is ugc
and is the responsibility of the user
ruby burrow
It's just definitely too soon in my opinion.
halcyon ingot
I can see what you mean by
I do agree it is too soon though
like you said we need new players
and it isn't like they are exactly wanting for money with the investments they get
ruby burrow
Imagine any of the normal complaints made here, with the added layer of salt of "I paid for this! I'm entitled to throw a tantrum!"
halcyon ingot
That would be annoying, but they would be paying for it with the knowledge it would change over time
so realistically they would have no basis for arguement
doesnt mean they wouldnt try tho
ruby burrow
It would be nice if people were ever realistic about things like that. xD
ruby needle
the moment vrchat becoms pay to play is the moment it's going to die off
tranquil vortex
Dude, i feel like 5 dollars is a fine price to pay
you already paid 600 for a vr headset
ruby burrow
Well, there is a reason that most failing pay to play games become free to play, when things are getting dire.
tranquil vortex
whats's 5 dollars compaired to 600
ruby needle
a game basing purely on user content many of which beeing ripped assets thats payed 
halcyon ingot
we already discussed that if you look up paul
tranquil vortex
Well, tell gmod the same shit
ruby needle
vrchat is propably more going the store / storage option
halcyon ingot
that was exactly my comparison
ruby needle
gmod is the base
ruby burrow
Trying to go the other way, is not a route to success, unless you've got a rock solid product and a guaranteed audience.
ruby needle
players host the servers and assets
most likely we'll se a managed store in vrchat and maybe avatar limits
which i think are fair
as in how many you can get for free
halcyon ingot
I disagree
ruby needle
in the end it's storage they have to pay for
halcyon ingot
I really dont want that
ruby needle
it also means people will put more work in the free slot models they have
tranquil vortex
^
ruby burrow
Selling storage space huh? So what you're saying, is I need to upload 500 replica Kanna avatars to secure the IDs as an early access player, before they become a premium.
Gotcha, brb. :v
halcyon ingot
Limiting how many free avatars you can have will just stagnate the game further
ruby needle
why?
the word is clear
non of the things that make vrchat vrchat will ever be payed at a base
tho, limits like that are totally a thing i can see comming and would support
a fair limit of like 15/20 ish
that is still more then enogh
tranquil vortex
Why the fuck does someone need 20 kana slots
halcyon ingot
Then we will be on opposing sides if that day comes
tranquil vortex
fuck off with that bs
ruby needle
18of which are just suber bad edits
tranquil vortex
If you make a skin, and you really like it, than use one of your slots
ruby needle
with anoying shaders
ruby burrow
You might have misunderstood my joke Valleybars.
vocal shard
Welp
I found out today that you can use the kinect as a lower body tracking device
I got a new thing to try out tomorrow then
vocal shard
I got the standards oculus sensors
static cove
No I mean the kinect
static cove
360 is a little bit slower with tracking, Xbox one version is much better
vocal shard
Is it hard to set it up?
static cove
And I'm saying that as a person who spend money on both sensors because I never got an xbox in my life lmao
Not hard, there is both paid and free software
Paid version is better, of course, but the free one works
vocal shard
How much?
static cove
Tracking is A+
I don't remember, its a one buy kind of thing
I bought it a few months back lmao
There's a trial version of it too for testing if it works
static cove
Its a world of difference
Being able to kick people and hump them is a world of possibilities my man
static cove
Really dont recommend doing hand stands in VR lmfao
vocal shard
too late m8
Someone dared me to do it in a ToD worlds
But yeah thatโs something Iโm going to look into it.
vocal shard
i really don't trust myself to do any crazy stuff in vr
too likely to hit something in my room
or get tangled in cables and fall
while also pulling my computer off my desk
meager solstice
I mean neither did my friend and thatโs when he broke his rift controller by throwing it across the room
vocal shard
nice
raven silo
@vocal shard that why you buy extend cord for vr headset
i bought long HDMI and USB cord
for the vive box
pseudo dawn
My connection to VRChat keeps timing out. What the hell?
vocal shard
auto-join is not work
ruby burrow
I'm fortunate enough to have a decent sized play area. I've only ever accidentally hit anything two times so far, and both were when playing Sairento.
That game is the room destroyer. Possibly worse than even Gorn.
pseudo dawn
Everything else s working just fine. Why is VRChat having connection issues right now?
meager solstice
? I was just on and I didnโt have any problems
vocal shard
oof
pseudo dawn
I don't know. This hasn't happened before, and all of my other PC applications are staying online just fine.
true timber
I've been getting loading screens every time someone's avatar loads in for me for the past 2 days. Sometimes it'll be like a 5 second loading screen, other times up to 25 seconds. What's going on? ๐ฆ
restarting steamVR seems to fix it, but not every time
meager solstice
Avatars load slower due to them fixing the fps drop when models load in @true timber
true timber
That's not my issue, I'm talking about loading screens.
chrome grotto
I wish everyone a great Thursday! Have a good one 
vocal shard
looks like a way to track your battery life, cpu usage, and time while in vr...
vocal shard
not really. place the folder, start steamvr. some other small stuff
crisp pine
I haven't been in VRChat for almost a week due to the obnoxious api user who's been ruining the game for random peeps. Is it safe to join now? Back to typical levels of exploiters again?
Or is the problem still at large?
tranquil vortex
Who?
ruby needle
it was never unsafe to join
crisp pine
The user with various names. Found a little door that led them to be able to fake ban, impersonate staff, glitched a few worlds.
ruby needle
Dont let this kind of thing people stop you from having fun.
tranquil vortex
Just reset and start again
ruby needle
That is more or less also a win for them.
crisp pine
Well ye, but I'd prefer to wait it out, considering that VRChat is a very slow running game to begin with, and restarting takes a few minutes and hassles me. I was just wondering if the severity of the situation is lower now >.>
umbral reef
Spy you can always try out friends+ worlds
opaque remnant
restarting takes a few minutes? takes me 30 seconds to get into my barebones world
crisp pine
It takes about 5 for the game to close, steam to realize it's closed, then load new worlds.
Heats my PC a lil'.
I've yet to track how hot it gets.
Enough to burn me tho.
opaque remnant
that's got nothing to do with vrchat
you should be able to run your computer at 100% for hours on end
tranquil vortex
Sounds like you need a better heat solution
crisp pine
I can, with anything but VRChat >.>
crisp pine
I can run Battlefield at straight 60, or games like Arma 3 or Onward VR with no noticeable lag problem.
I sorta figure it's just VRC itself >w>
But that's why I was waiting this out.
So I didn't have to even consider needing to restart.
fading owl
Try raising process priority in your task manager
crisp pine
Oooo I can do that?
crisp pine
It runs 100% Disk and 90-100% CPU.
fading owl
windows does not approve
opaque remnant
vrchat for me when i start the game and until i get into a world uses 5% cpu
tranquil vortex
With VR or without VR?
crisp pine
With VR.
Oculus Rift.
I use an AMD Ryzen 5 1600 six-core, it shouldn't be experiencing trouble unless the load is insane.
Only VRChat brings it to that.
crisp pine
Oh, well I did not know that.
Rip
Kms
Figured it'd use two at least, like SecondLife did.
ruby needle
even then
crisp pine
Don't believe so, it's a gaming PC top to bottom, over $1000, but let me see if I can find out what it is.
This is my first non-custom PC, so I'm not sure on the top of my head what parts are in it, since I didn't put them there.
Besides CPU and GPU of course.
tranquil vortex
1000 aint that high end
fading owl
I dont think its a cpu related thing, my processor is absolutely outdated and i run vrc just fine
tranquil vortex
Its better than most of whats out there...
crisp pine
Higher than needed for VR, ofc. But I was upgrading since I keep up with the Battlefield series, and didn't want the series to eventually be too hungry for my PC in the next few years.
Man how can I find my HHD.
It's in device manager for sure.
But I can't find it.
opaque remnant
i'd try clearing the vrchat cache and also verify it in steam
crisp pine
Full name "WD Blue 1TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD10EZEX - OEM".
fading owl
Thats fine
crisp pine
I mean, it isn't terrible, shouldn't have trouble, I don't think.
VRChat cache...
Hm, I've never cleared a cache for a game before.
fading owl
Do u also have an ssd?
tranquil vortex
Yeah, that HHD isnt bad at al
fading owl
so
crisp pine
I can't afford an SSD XD
tranquil vortex
Brug
crisp pine
Not anymore.
tranquil vortex
Cant afford a SSD but can afford a VR headset?
fading owl
the rest goes on your hdd
crisp pine
Yeah, it's my dream. But it's far-fetched for now.
tranquil vortex
tranquil vortex
Pre-built?
ruby needle
a 250gb SSD is not that much tese days
crisp pine
But now I'm broke, and I've had to destroy my bank savings account to get by.
Yeah, it's pre.
ruby needle
and you gain quite a boost
as a sstem drive
not having a SSD in a modern rig is kinda a sin
fading owl
Running windows on an ssd boosts it by a lot
tranquil vortex
a Sandisk 240GB is only 50 dollars
crisp pine
Oh yeah, I've heard.
Really? Last I shopped I could get the cheapest for as much as this computer costed >.>
tranquil vortex
And even if its not a high preformance SSD, its still better than a HHD
twin jacinth
You don't need a SSD to be able to load VRchat at a decent speed, i have it on my HDD which is the same specs as you but another brand
crisp pine
Listed on Best Buy at $1100, I remember.
fading owl
And then theres people running a 4TB SSD ๐
tranquil vortex
^^
Lmao
fading owl
i definetly dont owo
tranquil vortex
Nah dude
crisp pine
But as far as clearing a cache, is that something I can do through Steam, or do I need to delete a file? >.>
tranquil vortex
Actually
fading owl
i need to upgrade my cpu but thats gonna be a massive pain
tranquil vortex
a 2TB samsung SSd are 400 dollars
tranquil vortex
4TB samsung is 1500
fading owl
scuse me
twin jacinth
Building pc's now days is ''If it sits it fits''
If you've done it before changing mobo takes like 10-20 mins :P
but i agree it's a bit of a pain to switch out
fading owl
yes
but the pricing is my problem ๐
if i were to make that jump
the amount would sum up to around 800 โฌ
which i cant pay rn
tranquil vortex
Plus, with crypto finally calming down, prices went down
crisp pine
VRAM or just RAM?
fading owl
Ram
tranquil vortex
GOATS
tranquil vortex
I know i bought some low quality ram on new egg
tranquil vortex
i think that's whats keeping me down rn
crisp pine
Also I just cleared my cache, found 5.5gb to delete.
fading owl
8gb should be plenty lol
twin jacinth
I can probably sell my ram for more than i bought it for
82 Eur in 2016
276 Eur now in 2018
๐ค
fading owl
@twin jacinth ddr4 or ddr3
twin jacinth
4
twin jacinth
RiP Life
ram is shit expensive
fading owl
exactly
polar jasper
You just download it /s
fading owl
thats the cost factor
tranquil vortex
I have these from Newegg
polar jasper
But it has only become more expensive the last like 3-4 years
tranquil vortex
but i dont feel like they're that good?
twin jacinth
DooooD good idea
tranquil vortex
crisp pine
Oh, I'm about to launch VRChat, but first could anyone tell me if that really bad exploiter is still out and about?
fading owl
Probably
crisp pine
I wanna run a performance test after clearing my cache.
crisp pine
Yeah, I'll have to, but I like public worlds, it's the only way I don't play alone >.<
twin jacinth
I have played in public the last week every day
no hackers experiened in Sakura, Japan Shrine and Dance stage.
crisp pine
True, I do have AMD's weird shadowplay thing, but I can't get it to work >:L
fading owl
same @crisp pine thats why i dont give a damn about them being on vrc
if i get kicked i get kicked
crisp pine
I miss GeForce Shadowplay, it worked
tranquil vortex
Oh shit
tranquil vortex
i didnt see that my Mobo had M.2 slots
crisp pine
No I mean I don't have that anymore.
I upgraded my PC like 3 months ago and lost GeForce. I use AMD now.
fading owl
oh
tranquil vortex
OOf
fading owl
big oof
tranquil vortex
Imagine buying a new PC and purposely downgrading it from what you had...
polar jasper
It's the perfect upgrade
crisp pine
Well, the card runs a lot better. I was using a GTX 750 3 months ago. I got the Ryzen 5 1600 so I can finally use VR.
tranquil vortex
Ryzen 5
fading owl
can you give me sth i can compare that to
crisp pine
750 had 2GB VRAM, if I remember. It was ABSURD. Ruined Battlefield 1 for me.
fading owl
no clue bout amd
tranquil vortex
Went Red team instead of Green team
crisp pine
It's a GTX 1050 equivalent.
tranquil vortex
Yeah
fading owl
thats alrite
tranquil vortex
why have a 1050 when you can have a 1080
fading owl
i went from 770 to 1070 ti
tranquil vortex
damn, thats a good jump
polar jasper
@tranquil vortex we are all components on the inside, no matter the side ๐
crisp pine
Because the 1080 costs more than my organs
ruby needle
1050 is a budget card and not gaming oriented tho
tranquil vortex
Cmon my mang, there's a clear "Right" company
crisp pine
FPaul, it's an equivalent in performance, it's actually great for VR ^^
tranquil vortex
Blue and Green is the way to go
crisp pine
It's made for Rift. It runs great on other games tho.
polar jasper
Hehe
ruby needle
yes exactly, is a equivalent
tranquil vortex
Its a bit more expensive, but its worth
ruby needle
to a budget card
fading owl
The 1050 is being tossed into your face everywhere where i live
tranquil vortex
I do like how AMD is pretty much forcing Nvidia to actually work
errant vault
+_-
fading owl
200 โฌ and they include a 3 TB HDD