vrchat-general-2

[lilac swan]

Tsk, tsk, only dead fishes follow the stream. 😎

[sleek bone]

C'mon

[empty raptor]

Ok well still does anyone who of a world that has Avatar's with finger markers?

[sleek bone]

What do you mean?

[keen mesa]

why do you want to be a bad version of yourself in VR when you can be a cute anime girl

[empty raptor]

Its called snail trail, basically instead of drawing with a marker it's your finger

[sleek bone]

There a good looking anime guys in Vr

like light

naruto

uhhh

natsu

[keen mesa]

but do them have bobs?

No

That's -100 points

[prisma timber]

How does one see what one's world was marked as?

[sleek bone]

Sasuke is very prominent in vr

[tranquil perch]

ive seen a bob once

[sleek bone]

None of them have tits cuz they're guys

[keen mesa]

vr bobs and vagene

that's why they are bad

the chad anime girl vr the virgin (((naruto)))

[prisma timber]

It says the world will be marked after being reviewed but yet mine has not been reviewed the 2 other times that I submitted it.

[shy nest]

wait

what if the character is half and half

[hollow patio]

i hate those gun avatars that crash games

[vocal shard]

Internet is fine and now VR Chat rooms are loading quite slow lol

[vocal shard]

omg

you guys make me sick

Acting like anime avatars are the only avatars

[hasty wedge]

theyre not?

[vocal shard]

jest

jest

jest

jest

best comp

[marsh tusk]

Soo DltDat... I should play as a girl instead of my normal gender then...??

[vocal shard]

more like dippindot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwNTsG6Yulo

I am extreme hipster man

watch me immediately be the person who likes basically everything about japanese culture except anime

and subsequently separate myself from 60% of the VRChat playerbase

😃 😂 👍

[pallid escarp]

hey guys

[sudden agate]

where to go

if someone has stolen your avatar

[thorny totem]

#moderation-reports

[sudden nacelle]

[visual venture]

it's been 3 months that i haven't played vrchat..

[fading owl]

Shame on you @visual venture

😛

ive had my 4 month break as well

slowly starting to get back into it though

[visual venture]

@fading owl Want to know the reason why?

My laptop is broken, and i need to work to shit to buy a new one.

[fading owl]

oof

[visual venture]

Yeah. :/

[fading owl]

i just took a break cuz someone made me throw up and i didnt want it to happen again

things fortunately cooled off a bit over the span of 2 months

[visual venture]

It will cost like, 889 euros for me to buy a new laptop.

[umbral reef]

What kind of work are you doing then

[visual venture]

Car washing.

[fading owl]

o.o

[visual venture]

Soon welding.

[vocal shard]

rip

[fading owl]

thats gonna take a while, thats true

[visual venture]

It will indeed.

[vocal shard]

looks like i actually have to start doing commissions

zzzz

[umbral reef]

Ay welding is a pretty dope job

Just dont get fucked over by shitty bosses

[fading owl]

have you got access to a pc / unity / blender?

[umbral reef]

Plenty of those are out there with that type of work

[visual venture]

I had that on my laptop.

[vocal shard]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[fading owl]

cuz smol commissions are a good source of income

[visual venture]

And my PC is VERY shit and outdates.

[fading owl]

hmm

[vocal shard]

id rather not do commissions but i kinda have no choice now

[fading owl]

i was thinking about doing commissions, but everytime a do free ones i get pissed at people who give me thousands of extra requirements along the way

[visual venture]

^

I do know how you can do it.

[vocal shard]

That's why i only offer merges and some custom animations

[fading owl]

😄

[umbral reef]

VRC is full of young kids and ignorant people
Like if you do commisions for a month you can make a whole years of /r/choosingbeggars content

[visual venture]

I don't know how you can do custom animations.

[umbral reef]

Animations isnt to hard

[vocal shard]

I make teleports and flying

it's easy

[visual venture]

I'm 15 tho, but i don't fuck around.

Does that count as a young kid?

[hasty wedge]

ur age isnt on the clock

[fading owl]

The stuff that screws me over 90° of the time is a. stuff working in unity but not in VRC for some nonexistent reason and b. Damn Fixed joints not staying where their stupid particle systems are supposed to be

[vocal shard]

I just offer my basic animation package of like flying/dash/loading

if they want it

[visual venture]

If i ever return, i will just make a character from a ripped Battlefield 1 german soldier.

[fading owl]

@vocal shard im still tryna get the hang of fluid animation

some of mine just look choppy at parts

[vocal shard]

yea

[visual venture]

I just lower the polygons on things that are not exposed.

[fading owl]

Another question, i tried doing an emote, but the y position clips it through the floor. Unity wont let me animate it. How tf am i supposed to fix that?

[umbral reef]

Just need to make the curves of the animations flow better

[fading owl]

Overrides are fine

[visual venture]

I don't know the rest of making it.

[fading owl]

What are animation Curves? XD

never used that

[umbral reef]

You normally have those dots?

[fading owl]

i kinda eyeball the timing between certain keyframes

[umbral reef]

You can select a vieuw where the points between those dots have lines
Its usefull if you want an animation to speed up at the start and then slow down

[visual venture]

My eye balls don't work.

[umbral reef]

Or go linearly and ect

Its a thing programs like AfterEffect also use

But its my break time so

[fading owl]

oooh

but why after effects? owo

[visual venture]

How do i add guns as on my character?

[fading owl]

ive edited videos with it but how would you use it regarding unity

[visual venture]

Like, hidding and showing.

[fading owl]

animate yourself, toggling the checkbox

done

[visual venture]

I don't have it rn, so i can't try it.

[tawny canopy]

Seen that new AMD processor. 32 cores & 64 threads?

Holy s**t

[mint root]

aaaaaugh i hate when the game crashes and scares me by repeating the audio >.<
vrchat crashes quite often so i got used to seeing "the game crashed" but this time it just suddenly happened with a "Fatal error in gc"
i would have been ok with it had it not been for the glitched out noise

[fading owl]

@mint root that never happends to me

people just disappear and i wont know it crashed until i actually look at my desktop

[hasty wedge]

it always happens at the worst times when ppl talk

[rough pulsar]

@tawny canopy You have no idea how tempted I am. I have the 1950x and that alone is amazing, but even more threads? Yesplz

[tawny canopy]

@rough pulsar Apparently, that's not the fastest one.

[rough pulsar]

It does sem that the zen+ TRs run a bit slower, but that makes sense for the number of cores they got running.

[tawny canopy]

@rough pulsar Their going to have a 48 core one also, unless I misheard.

[rough pulsar]

OH sweet merciful fuck

[tawny canopy]

lol

[rough pulsar]

I can hear all the wallets I don't use anymore huddled together in a cupboard, crying. together.

[tawny canopy]

lol

I got the details

48 cores, 96 threads

LMAO

It's called "AMD Starship"

[rough pulsar]

No, stop. I can only get so erect.

[tawny canopy]

lol

[rough pulsar]

I can't even imagine how good light baking, rendering, photogrammetry and any other parallelizable task would be on one of those

[thorny totem]

you better be ready with the electric bill :P (said the guy with a 7980XE) ;)

[rough pulsar]

Just need to start mining crypto on my 1080s :B That'll sort it, right? /s

[thorny totem]

hmm not quite :)

[rough pulsar]

Well I guess I can sell my body on the internet for money.

[thorny totem]

yes a kiddney on ebay and you're set ^^

[sudden nacelle]

dont mine crypto as normal consumer

not worth it

:^)

you need special builds so its worth it

[rough pulsar]

The single worst part about getting a threadripper is that I also need to get AC installed because it's hot as balls in here.

[thorny totem]

alt coins if you're fast enough could sometime be really good (meaning during a launch during few hours, past that it's a waste)

clearly Gallium, intel is not doing a better job with the last released though

[weary obsidian]

howdy all

[rough pulsar]

Sup

And yeah, I'm quite happy with how AMD are picking themselves back up with the Zen procs

[thorny totem]

good deal for the money yes, i'm still waiting for intel & AMD to fix the major issues - spectre & alike - before upgrading... (hardware fix i mean)

[rough pulsar]

From what I recall spectre is the nasty one since, like its name, it's gonna be lurking around for a while due to how x86 is designed.
Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

[thorny totem]

yes it's the nasty one, the roadmap claim it'll be fixed probably next year (dissociated memory access solution) will see :)

[rough pulsar]

Although I wouldn't say no to the potential of switching over to IBM's power architecture.

[thorny totem]

for a consumer pov? meh ^^

[rough pulsar]

My old PowerPC Macs still run nicely, if not a little toasty.

[thorny totem]

eheh but the question is does vrchat work on it :D

[rough pulsar]

To be fair I won't be happy until I can run VR off my Amiga A600. :B

[thorny totem]

eheh

i think i still have one somewhere :P

[rough pulsar]

If I wasn't neck deep in VR hell, I'd probably spend any spare income on old computer hardware because I love playing around with them.

[thorny totem]

i have some relic, but not because i'm a collector, i'm just too lazy to sell them, most are collectin dust in my basement :), but yes amazing how one could have been productive with these stuff

[rough pulsar]

How the times have changed.

[thorny totem]

excel sheet in DOS, music producing with an amiga :D

[fading owl]

i have no idea what an amiga is

[thorny totem]

well imagine a basic 2018 calculator

[fading owl]

oh

[thorny totem]

with a keyboard :P

[rough pulsar]

I'd still love to be able to go back to when I was 13 and say to myself "You see that? [pointing at the .hack// manga I got given for my birthday] give it 14 years and you'll get to do that, in a way."

[thorny totem]

eheh

i smell nostalgia in here

48 cores and VR, yep what a wonderfull time to live in :)

[rough pulsar]

I'll pass on the slightly ominous AIs and having your conciousness stuck in video games mind you. Not really how I'd like to spend my weekend.

[fading owl]

I mean, im looking forward to SAO-like times with games going even deeper but its pretty lit, thats true

[thorny totem]

yes clearly Gallium, at least we know and have seen better, not the case with the younger generation, they are deep in :, not a critic though :)

[calm rock]

Is there a way to change your name in VRChat under a vrchat account?

[rough pulsar]

@calm rock https://vrchat.groovehq.com/knowledge_base/topics/id-like-to-change-my-username

[thorny totem]

possible yes, you need to send an email at [e-mail] (or is it [e-mail]? Gallium will correct me for sure)

oupsi ^^

[rough pulsar]

I felt like I clicked through more than half the vrchat site to find that link

[thorny totem]

:D

[calm rock]

ahh awesome thanks!

couldnt find anything too useful from a google searchj

[rough pulsar]

that lovely section of the site is hidden under Developer>Knowledge Base

[calm rock]

surprised there isnt a way to change username through logging in on the vrchat site

[vocal shard]

That is only possible through steam, at the cost of not being able to use custom skins

[crystal gazelle]

I mean. To be fair..
If you felt like just re-adding friends.
As long as you're not avoiding bans..you can always create another username.
Though you'd run into the trust system..oof

[vocal shard]

Another extra 40 hours or so...

[crystal gazelle]

I'm surprised it doesn't just have you verify your phone number or something like that..
It'd be way less confusing..
Or like confirmed email + authenticator or something like that..
I mean. My alt got "custom world" privileges after just a little bit..
But I think that's different

[runic hound]

I still get excited whenever I see someone mention the Amiga. I'll have to fire up WinUAE again soon.

[rough pulsar]

Amigas are amazing as are some of the weird old games/software for them.

[runic hound]

Yep. The demoscene was awesome too, I still like to watch them from time to time.

Sadly I have to go outside now though, grr. Back later!

[rough pulsar]

Haha, me too. Have fun. :D

[timber junco]

Did I miss out on TR talk hours?

[wispy pike]

hello someone help me?

[runic terrace]

anybody up for a match of pubg?

plz

[swift shadow]

Idk mine though, after I uploaded my world and start playing vrchat to test it out but the "mine" category suddenly disappeared Everytime for a few seconds and idk why?

Do any of u guys have this kind of problem?

[shell dagger]

Yall I found my fav song 😂

https://youtu.be/tVrhKHJaaz4

[languid beacon]

i wish i hadn't had a two year hiatus, i didn't know they delete inactive accounts. and then someone grabbed my original name

[umbral reef]

Adeon tries email support yet...?

[languid beacon]

na someone else legit has my name. not hacked

[hasty wedge]

same

[inner cape]

[languid beacon]

@hasty wedge https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/442444657428004866/461212888028282890/image.jpg

[hasty wedge]

[inner cape]

Some unactive person has my name as well

I wanna take it

[languid beacon]

I did not expect this at first, but after trying another VR social game that allowed third person as an option, i changed my mind and now i believe FORCED first person perspective is vital for immersion in VR. If you are in VR talking to someone's face, but they are not actually there, all sense of shared space breaks down and immersion is destroyed... you just feel silly.

Very smart move on VRChat imho

[rough pulsar]

VR
Not actually being in the body representing you

wat

[umbral reef]

^^

[rough pulsar]

I mean, VRChat has the 3rd person motion system which exists for a good reason, but as soon as that stops you snap into your body.

I'm curious as to what game this is and even more so what their justification for allowing 3rd person is.

[umbral reef]

"Others games dont have it so we will add it!"

[vocal shard]

Config file

[kind folio]

praise the toggleability for the particle limit

[vocal shard]

I don't know how necessary deleting my poggers was

🤷

[kind folio]

Toggles are everyones best friend.

Neen, they dont like "rude/discriminatory" emojis / emotes.

[vocal shard]

I finally got a Rift and its being installed as I type 😃

🤷 Whatever floats their boat

oh my gaw

d

"We now support the use of the VRC_SyncVideoStream component for playing Twitch and YouTube Live streams!"

i am so happy right now

sgdq in vrc im coming

[rough pulsar]

@vocal shard Rule 16 would be why #rules

[kind folio]

its neato

[leaden grail]

what about my mixer?

[rough pulsar]

I didn't do it, that's just why.

[leaden grail]

[covert chasm]

@vocal shard I already have a world set up to watch SGDQ

[vocal shard]

Poggers is from Twitch

[kind folio]

but i wont be active again until the new node system comes out, so time to go into hybernation

[vocal shard]

But 🤷

i made one for agdq 2019 tupper, i knew this would come but i thought it might take longer

[rough pulsar]

It's still that frog. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vocal shard]

please give the whole team a biiiiiiiig hug from me

[ruby needle]

very proud of the even more Safety and Security fixes

[vocal shard]

Yikes

[torn cape]

I gotta wonder, is there like, any limit to what you can create in a VRChat world? Could you write some code for a fully functional car and just put it right in?

[ruby needle]

no

custom scripts are not supported

the new node system thats in closed beta is what is gonna be the main tool for making more crazy shit

[covert chasm]

I played with the latest beta of that last night. I think people will be pretty impressed with its featureset

[torn cape]

I see!

[vocal shard]

Now twitch panels won't need to be scuffed

Poggers

[polar jasper]

Just telling you to install flash was a mistake 😛

[torn cape]

Also I'm so glad this game didn't die after its surge in popularity, there are still plenty of players

[heavy timber]

Who else has the outdated driver message? :P

[kind folio]

If you have amd you will.

[heavy timber]

well, only if you havent updated the driver

[kind folio]

tru.

just patiently waiting for the new system

[heavy timber]

also, apparently amd calls it an optional update

[kind folio]

amd is a dumby

[torn cape]

I'm one of probably very few who actually prefer AMD

I miss Freesync, and the nice, fast driver UI, and working SSAA in Minecraft

[ruby needle]

there arend that few actually

a lot of "nvidea is bad" people exists apparently

[torn cape]

I mean they're kiiinda scummy

Still, faster cards, so

[heavy timber]

well, for me its more intel, and nv and amd dont quite work together as good

[ruby needle]

that's how it is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

nah thats no issue Janni

[heavy timber]

and my amd build (40GHz with a matching Graphics Card) is on only 1.1k €

and no, its not a ryzen

[rough pulsar]

If AMD graphics cards performed equal or better to nvidia cards I'd switch right away.
At least they're giving intel a run for their money with CPUs.

[heavy timber]

i do not recommend mixing amd/intel and/or amd/nvidia, it went very horrible on my tests

[ruby needle]

when did youtest?

it really should not be any issue these days

[rough pulsar]

My two most powerful systems are Intel/Nvidia and AMD/Nvidia and I have never had any problems

[fallow token]

sens slider is a godsend

[heavy timber]

some last year, one this year, another two in 2016, FPaul

[torn cape]

@rough pulsar Same, I'm on a 1080 Ti right now because of the raw framerates, but the second AMD gets a good flagship GPU out again I'm switchin'

[heavy timber]

i mean, the rx series and vega are pretty good, and in crossfire, they can theoretically be outperforming a 1070

one thing i dont understand is how polaris is supposedly flawed.

[rough pulsar]

Can OpenCL match CUDA in terms of performance on equivalent cards yet? That's one of the main things that'd get me to switch.

[torn cape]

Vega is okay but like, I really need every last frame from my 1080 Ti as it stands, so Vega won't cut it

[raven girder]

What's in the new build?

[rough pulsar]

Read the release notes?

[raven girder]

Nevermind.

[rough pulsar]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/vrchat-201822

[raven girder]

Thanks

[heavy timber]

OpenCL is not that good, but at least Vulkan is running pretty smooth even on an RX560 low energy

[magic osprey]

So... question about this new particle thing.... does it limit them client side to stop crashers?

[whole lodge]

Now we can watch vrchat streams while in Vrchat

[magic osprey]

or does it limit it in how much you make for your own avatars?

[rough pulsar]

@vocal shard That sounds horrifying in VR

[vocal shard]

cuz people are dumb as fuck

[rough pulsar]

People at valve and oculus literally spent months of their lives doing their best to remove CA in VR.

[umbral reef]

Now i can watch myself in Vr streaming watching myself in VR

[novel spoke]

Are there any viewing worlds already made?

[whole lodge]

Inb4 streamers make worlds that have autobplayinv streams

[heavy timber]

@whole lodge or a VRC streamer watching their stream in VRC, hust for VRC-Streamception

[whole lodge]

Infini-echo

[indigo fern]

maps with their stream, easy views

[torn cape]

I hate maps that pretty much give the middle finger to VR
Like, you could at least try

[whole lodge]

Whoever asked the question about the particle limiter limiting on client side for other people's avatars or if it's simply limiting your own particles I'd a good question.

If I can limit other people's particles. I'll enable that thing asap.

[heavy timber]

oh, thats gonna be a terrifying noise unless they lag badly enough

[vocal shard]

i thought it was made to limit toher people

[rough pulsar]

It's for other people's particles.

[vocal shard]

so you can choose if you want to get lagged/crashed

[whole lodge]

Just curious how it works

Ah so less chance of me being shot with a gun that is like184843764846 particles and crashes me

[umbral reef]

Id suggest looking at what to limit though and to how much...

[rough pulsar]

For particle limiting, https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-particle-system-limits

[umbral reef]

As its easy to mess up good things with the wrong limits set on the wrong things

[whole lodge]

I mean. My character has a rose and a mirror. Im not worried about other people's particles when there's the off chance someone is a crasher

[indigo fern]

luckily we have a channel for discussing particle limiter settings now

[true timber]

On the full patch notes it lists "Many bugs fixed related to performance/error reporting." - Are these optimization updates?

[whole lodge]

My issue is just getting into worlds with videos in it and now it's just like 10 gray screen pop ups to load it.

[umbral reef]

Well id guess they fixed problems causing performances problems 🤔

[true timber]

It's worded kind of strangely and I feel like if it was referring to a bunch of optimization fixes it would have been made a bigger point of rather than hidden away in the full update logs

[umbral reef]

Well if they scream "We fixed things so the games runs smooth" people will just be pissed as there 15 fps laptop isnt running 40 fps now...

[floral aspen]

^

[umbral reef]

But now they are saying, "Ey, we fixed some things causing performance problems . might run bettero"

[true timber]

Why would their laptop go from 40 fps to 15fps if they fixed things so the game runs smooth?

[floral aspen]

no Kizzy, you got it backwards

[umbral reef]

I meant 15 to 40...

[floral aspen]

people would complain their laptop which usually runs at 15fps isn't now running at 40fps because of the optimization

[true timber]

🤔

so hide the fact that you're optimizing the game because someone might complain it's not optimized enough? That doesn't make any sense.

so I highly doubt that would be the reasoning

[umbral reef]

If people go ape shit over performance problems while almost all performance drops happen because of user avatar and bad map making...

[true timber]

that's not true

[floral aspen]

I don't think they're hiding the fact they're optimizing though. Bugs related to performance issues implies optimization

[umbral reef]

You really think they wont blame the devs for not doing something they said they did (Even though they understood it wrong)

[true timber]

avatars and maps have a lot to do with performance, yes.

[floral aspen]

most to do actually

[true timber]

but there's no denying the game has gotten progressively worse in terms of performance ever since the camera update

[umbral reef]

Not for me

[rough pulsar]

90% of perf problems are avatar related, and only a subset of that can be user controlled.

[true timber]

"works on my machine"

[floral aspen]

Very few people actually take the time to optimize their worlds and avatars

[umbral reef]

Honestly compared to when i started the game runs more smooth and i do not think all the extra dust my pc has now makes it run faster

[rough pulsar]

Things like networking, audio and IK can't really be controlled by the user and they contribute to filling up that sweet 11ms of CPU time per frame.

[umbral reef]

True, having all those things be on one core is insane

[true timber]

I am part of a large community that atlasses their avatars and optimizes their maps. We were getting better FPS before the camera update when a lot of us still didn't know about optimiziation

They definitely broke something

[umbral reef]

Most games that use more then one core have the communication one just one core as it often takes so much compared to most other things

[true timber]

we even have video recordings of us in the past with the same amount of people getting better fps then than now

and we all notice it

[keen mesa]

Each IK solver takes about 1.1 ms

[opaque remnant]

there are people that say they don't notice a difference before and after the camera update?

[true timber]

I'm pretty sure they even admitted that FPS was running worse after the camera update

the devs, I mean.

[rough pulsar]

It seems to vary. I haven't noticed a change before and after the camera update, but there are people who definitely have.

[floral aspen]

I haven't noticed a change either

[true timber]

Maybe it's only noticeable in larger groups

[umbral reef]

Well right after the camera thing i did notice a drop but recently i didnt notice it at all really

[true timber]

We used to be able to fit 30 people in an instance with comfortable fps, not so much anymore now

[umbral reef]

Can be the problem stacks with users or something odd like that

[tacit plank]

I have more lag when loading into worlds now. It seems they take a while to really load properly, if they ever manage to

[rough pulsar]

Well, it is having to render some stuff again for the camera which is no doubt going to affect performance. But it seems to even happen with the camera disabled so who knows.

[tacit plank]

Maybe it made culling less effective, or something

[true timber]

It might not even be directly related to the cameras, something unrelated might have gotten broken during that update

[rough pulsar]

I have noticed some people take their camera out and never put it away, so always having that out could be doing something.

[opaque remnant]

cameras out and in don't change anything in terms of fps for me

[steel ingot]

does anyone have problem where they join other worlds instead of friends' worlds

[covert chasm]

@true timber Lots of smaller fixes across the board. They were very boring from a user-facing standpoint. Literally fixing errors that we saw a lot of, causing perf issues.

[opaque remnant]

it seems more like they are always loaded there in the background

[golden bluff]

Might be a good addition to have a option to hide cameras completely

Maybe that might help

[covert chasm]

@steel ingot Your friends haven't updated their clients yet!

[steel ingot]

ah i see

[true timber]

So the game should run a bit better now theoretically?

[steel ingot]

this is my frist time getting it, thank you

[covert chasm]

Theoretically, yes 😄

[rough pulsar]

@steel ingot Give it a few hours and most people should be on the latest build.
It's always like this when there's an update, a few hours of people joining their friends only to not find them anywhere due to a build mismatch.

[true timber]

👌🏻

[quiet perch]

Ooooh man just looked at the update changelog and watched the vrhome kit video lots of very good info for beginners in that video and these updates have some very promising features. Especially the world file size on the icons. Really helps when I only have 30gigs of satellite internet 😭

[ruby needle]

sattelite?

that sounds impossible for vrchat

"astronomical" ping and connection stability of doom i mean

[quiet perch]

Tis very true although when I'm not out of data ping is around 600ms and stability is actually very good

[whole lodge]

Hey my buddy was looking for a Joe Swanson model to go with his desktop mode crippleness. What world is he in?

[quiet perch]

Speeds are around 10-25 megabits a sec

[rough pulsar]

Holy balls dude, 600 ping? I wonder wtf is going on when mine goes to 200. 😱

[quiet perch]

😂😂 well that's when I have data if I go over 30gigs a month it's about 1500-2500 in witch case I just give up and play with unity haha

[ruby needle]

even 600 sounds really bad

giving that with 200ms you already have the issue of interruption all the time

and that is common EU ping

[opaque remnant]

170-200ms is common EU ping, yes

so hearing people in the US complain about 100ms is quite funny

[quiet perch]

Yeah I've gotten used to the awkward moments of talking and then getting interrupted and then the awkward pause to see who will talk first

[covert chasm]

just tell them that you're sorry, but you're talking to them from space

[versed stratus]

is there actually a method to 'add a friend' by name?

[keen mesa]

the greyscreens when an avatar is loaded are not fixed reeeeeeee

[covert chasm]

@versed stratus Yes, search in Social, then click their icon, then press "Friend"

[versed stratus]

ah thanks 😄

[quiet perch]

Exactly Tupper

[versed stratus]

Well EU servers would be nice, please consider them maybe for 'private' servers only initially?

I mean, if it works for 'us' using USA servers, it should work the way around too right?

[quiet perch]

I get the "How's that McDonald's wifi" but I'm just like nah it's worse then even that

[versed stratus]

so its not like they 'cant' join

[ruby needle]

will you pay them?

😄

[floral aspen]

Who's gonna pay for these EU Servers? lol

[opaque remnant]

fragmenting the userbase doesn't seem that smart. and even if they do, a lot of EU people would rather play on the US ones

[ruby needle]

^ that too

[versed stratus]

I dont know they set up their backend

who is talking about fragmenting?

if it works for us to join USA servers, why cant they join EU ones?

just gotta pick a good EU location

[floral aspen]

because you can only be on one or the other

[ruby needle]

yes

[versed stratus]

you saying that all worlds run on a single process

[ruby needle]

its a soft separation

[versed stratus]

well, step one would be to make it possible to do EU only private worlds imho

by only I mean, its running in the EU, friends can still join

[tacit plank]

If you make server regions, please allow us to choose my region. The group I play with currently is spred all across the world

It's not a problem though, having 200 ping doesn't matter much when chatting

[balmy acorn]

i feel like this may have been an obvious question but i want to know quickly: is it possible to have personal avatars on steam vrchat?

[floral aspen]

no, you have to have a vrchat account

[tacit plank]

It is not

[ruby needle]

@tacit plank it actually does

[balmy acorn]

ok

i was wondering cause i didn't want to readd all my friends again lmao

[tacit plank]

It's slightly easier to accidentally talk over somebody... Other than that, I haven't noticed any issues

[floral aspen]

unfortunately you will have to manually add your friends again

[balmy acorn]

oof

[ruby needle]

but exactly that isthe issue @tacit plank

and its particularely bad for those who are already on the more shy side

they simply refuse to talk at all to not interrupt anyone when a lot talk with lower ping

it sucks

[versed stratus]

its strange but its like a 'female' test @ karaoke

[tacit plank]

It's 200ms or so, you barely notice it. Maybe the people I talk with have just gotten used to it though and automatically pause for longer?

[versed stratus]

many female players seem scared to sing in karaoke, while the guys go nuts :p

[ruby needle]

200ms for talking is quite a bit

[versed stratus]

well talking is fine if you're talking to someone, and that person is talking to you too

talking in a group gets messy fast

[tacit plank]

I have social anxiety, I can't even buy groceries by myself, but talking in VRChat is not an issue for me, even if they're on the other side of the planet

[versed stratus]

and ofc karaoke is lovely out of sync ;p

[ruby needle]

[tacit plank]

Lol, yeah, karaoke is. The videos are even more out of sync, at times you can hear people singing like a second besides the song

[versed stratus]

its normal

what is 'in sync'

if I sing at the exact same time as my UK friend

we'll both hear eachother 'afterwards'

[tacit plank]

You might sing at the same time, but if your voice reaches his before his reaches you, the voices won't overlap very well

[versed stratus]

ok alternative

add P2P option for voice chat?

so that voice chat could go directly to him if possible

[ruby needle]

p2p for vrchat?

[quiet perch]

Man those 200ms pings sound just horrible

[ruby needle]

... no

[versed stratus]

or whatever its called :p

why not?

[floral aspen]

why the heck would you want P2P over dedicated servers?

[versed stratus]

the animations are ok, its the talk that makes it bad, if you could just talk directly to him (or maybe a european chat middle station, anything is better than what there is now)

[opaque remnant]

p2p voice? you want people to have your IP address? no thanks

[versed stratus]

no lag?

I would be able to talk to him with 20ms 'ping'

instead of 200

and yet the rest of the game could still run on the USA servers

[ruby needle]

Ikuta mentioned the big issue with p2p allready

[floral aspen]

^

[umbral reef]

Even with a P2P VOIP it wont be just 20ms if you want it to be anything close to safe

[versed stratus]

ikuta this could be solved by a european server

[ruby needle]

and if you already implement p2p you could just aswell use it for everything 😄

[versed stratus]

for just chat

so then you wont know ppl their IP

btw

[floral aspen]

you want them to get an EU server.... just for voice chat? r u srs?

[versed stratus]

I got your IP if you join my world

I host my own videos

they are in the logs.. oooh scary

;p

[ruby needle]

that is you having a public world that has been approved and you are befing verified

[versed stratus]

well same would go for private that I lure ppl into

fyi I really aint using the logs for anything, except to see if 'someone' is active in my world :p

I'm a stat donkey ;p

[ruby needle]

not dsgvo conform

[sage pewter]

I hope some option is added to world building kits to solve the voice lag problem for things like karaoke

[versed stratus]

well decrease the lag would be nice

you cant really prevent it

[ruby needle]

you cant really make it perfect unless you implement explicit functions

like beeing able to read the singers ping and then sync everyone accordingsly

[versed stratus]

but that will still not work

[sage pewter]

Explicit functions were the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said, "some option is added to world building kits"

[versed stratus]

its impossible

[ruby needle]

no

not impossible

[versed stratus]

I would sing, hear my friend sing in sync

[ruby needle]

but very unlikely

[versed stratus]

then he will hear me with a delay..

because his singing in sync 'is in the past'

[ruby needle]

we talk about a specific function

you could have a trigger someone triggers

that syncs everyones alese playback time to the delay the players voice has to them

but keeps it 0 for the singer

however that would be a very specific function that would have to be implemented

each client localy would have to syc up correctly too

[versed stratus]

define in sync

[ruby needle]

if i deleay the playbay by the time the voice neds to be transfered

[versed stratus]

describe the experience of being 'in sync' in such a way

[ruby needle]

its in sync

to how it was on the local side for the other person

[sage pewter]

Sounds like Fpaul is describing a client-side sort of thing

[tacit plank]

People can already see your IP over VRChat lol

[versed stratus]

it could only work for 1 person MAX

[ruby needle]

yes

but its the only way you could sync up something like this

[versed stratus]

kinda pointless then

[tacit plank]

Yeah, making it perfect sync, at for everyone... Not really doable

[quiet perch]

Not for performance

[ruby needle]

but it would be a functioning solution

[tacit plank]

It's fine the way it is now, It think. At worst there's like a quarter second delay

[quiet perch]

Only wait to sync more then one is a worldwide 0ms ping

[umbral reef]

Music a 1/4 second is a lot though 👀

But its better for the artists to have an delay as with lots of practice you can filter shit out

[quiet perch]

Gg on that one if you can do that for us gecko but if you do that I will be forever grateful

[umbral reef]

or you play without hearing others

[red obsidian]

0ms everywhere could be epic... but not possible for now.

[quiet perch]

Yeah

[ruby needle]

0ms is impossible

[umbral reef]

To be fair i dont expect it to be ever possible...

[versed stratus]

yeah that impossible, or its P2P and in the same house ;p

[ruby needle]

unless full fibre and direct routes

[versed stratus]

then maybe.. 😛

[umbral reef]

Not at all worldwide

[red obsidian]

Not now but maybe later, with a new technology

[ruby needle]

eachs switch, each router, eachs routing point adds to it

[umbral reef]

Tech doesnt just need to be there... It has to be cheap enough for households to start using it

[ruby needle]

also i belive windows it selfe already ads a ms for all its stuff

[red obsidian]

Yeah... But if tech doesn't exist, we can't make it cheaper <.>

[quiet perch]

We made computers affordable

For something close to the power of your phone years ago could have been over 10,000 usd

[ruby needle]

and consumend a lot of space 😄

and power

[red obsidian]

When you make a discovery, you just need time to develop it and make it cheaper. That process can be... Hard <.>

[quiet perch]

Hard but possible

[red obsidian]

Yup. Exactly.

[umbral reef]

Not all tech can be made cheap though

[quiet perch]

That is true because of material availability and other stuff

[tacit plank]

Good software is easy and doable. Even advanced algorithms can be done in less than 30 lines

[red obsidian]

That's why sometime, there are some developement to see if we can't create a cheaper material to make the original product cheaper °^°

[umbral reef]

Ping also has to do with hardware...

And we are talking about that (or well, 0 ms delay on things)

[quiet perch]

Gotta have the hardware before the software

[ruby needle]

depends

FPGAS's are basically software you put into a hardware chip

so you gotta have it before the hardware

[versed stratus]

ugh I never thought I'd say this in my life, but where the heck is my friend Spiderman lawl 😄

[ruby needle]

and any chip needs programming so 😛

[tacit plank]

Ping has a little to do with hardware I guess. But you can't optimize it further than "the slpeed of light" either way. Just make sure that the routes are working

[umbral reef]

You could do that though without the programs @ruby needle

[ruby needle]

ping also has to do with hardware its just way more low level processing

[umbral reef]

Wont get an end product

But ya could

[quiet perch]

Never heard of those lol

[tacit plank]

You can make a 3D skiing game in 4kb of code

[ruby needle]

optimization

[versed stratus]

well I added my idea to the feature request thing, about having a chat 'proxy' server per region, that either sends it to the 'big one', or directly to 'nearby' players instead

😃

[quiet perch]

We here are pioneering 0ms world ping we can do it 😂

[versed stratus]

that would be a dream 😄

[ruby needle]

i would actally already be fine with 0ms latency

rather then ping

[umbral reef]

lmao if countries like america cant even provide proper internet let stand they will ever aim for 0ms

[red obsidian]

Some people have 0ms already

[quiet perch]

Pfft true that I'm stuck in the Stone age with satellite

[ruby needle]

i dont stink we should even name it 0ms

[tacit plank]

The ping is fine

[ruby needle]

but more liks <1ms

absolutely instantanious is simply impossible

[tacit plank]

A problem though, is that viewing a few static meshes can make a 1080ti cry

[quiet perch]

That makes since FPaul

[tacit plank]

Even your monitor has 10-40ms of delay lol

[ruby needle]

depends on what monitor

[tacit plank]

10ms is the best ones

[ruby needle]

no

[red obsidian]

FPaul... Well... Even in reality, it's not possible so...

[tacit plank]

Yes

[ruby needle]

<1ms for my crt's

fite me

thats why CRT's still are not death for some edge cases

[versed stratus]

I remember how I had a much larger resolution with my ol' CRT compared to my first flat screen monitor ;p

stuff was sooo tiny

[ruby needle]

no other technology can compete yet

[tacit plank]

Okay maybe CRTs are a bit faster

[quiet perch]

Only reason crts are the only screen you can play arcade games like duck hunt on

[ruby needle]

no

[tacit plank]

https://displaylag.com/display-database/
Lowest on the market is 9ms

[quiet perch]

If they use a light based gun

[ruby needle]

classic guns just dont work on a normal scren

but they can

the originals just never have been designed to compensate latency

cus it was simply not needed

but it can work just as well with a gun that has a latency compensation

[quiet perch]

That is true I guess I should have been more specific to say original duck hunt

[ruby needle]

im not sure if ther aren't even upgrade kits

if you talk about real arcade not a home version

[versed stratus]

anyone had the snes bazooka thing? 😛

[quiet perch]

Nope I didn't have a snes just a Nintendo 64

[ruby needle]

i have a light gun for a terminator console (bootlegged console)

http://bootleggames.wikia.com/wiki/Terminator

strange shit

won it in a shoot both at some fair

[quiet perch]

And it's genuine?

[ruby needle]

? if its a bootleg console.. ?

a nes clone basically

just... super bad

[quiet perch]

Damn sorry I'm pretty dumb sometimes 😂

[civic glacier]

<@&378256373701410817> Sorry for the ping, was wondering if I could talk in PM to an admin

[covert chasm]

Sorry, we don't do official comms via Discord DMs. If you need to contact us privately, send us an email to [e-mail]. If you need to chat with us about a moderation incident (such as a ban), please contact [e-mail].

[civic glacier]

okay thank you very much

[quiet perch]

Can someone explain ?

I feel like it has to have some kinda joke behind it

[ruby needle]

unity version i guess

[quiet perch]

Ah

[inner cape]

.3p1

[covert chasm]

A meme from back when we were swapping over from 5.3 to 5.6

[quiet perch]

Ah guess it'll change from 5.6 to 2018 once that eventually happens

[median basalt]

If

[opaque remnant]

how come there's no notification in the game when a new build is released? the yellow exclamation mark

[quiet perch]

It'll get to a point where it'll be a must. With more players every day poly counts just go up and up plus they already know it's planned I'm pretty sure they just have to make sure they have a lot of the basic features and they can make a huge move like that before they get into it

[tacit plank]

Polies aren't a problem

[quiet perch]

They are on CPU with 5.6 only being one core focused

Okay okay polies and materials and particles

[tacit plank]

If one person forgets to merge meshes in Blender, he can probably use 10 players of resources

Bad effects and shaders can do similar things, and every room seems to have at least a few of those people

[hasty hawk]

so do i need to update to the optional version of the amd drivers? i just updated to the recommended version and still got the warning in game to update them

[tacit plank]

Hmm, do you still have the shader issue though?

[hasty hawk]

i didnt even know there was an issue to begin with

[prisma timber]

How does one see if their world has been reviewed?

[south viper]

hmm, twitch and youtube live streams. niconama cries in the distance

[shy nest]

time to set the max for everything to 0 for the particle limiter

[ruby needle]

hmm since when does the menue rotate your character when you open it

it's absolutely awfull

[south viper]

o_O

[ruby needle]

the model rotates 90° ish left or right (depending on your base rotation you are in in relation to it)

[south viper]

I mean, it spins.

the only real complaint I have about it is that the dynamic bones on the preview model follow world gravity, not the gravity you'd have in the menu

[ruby needle]

http://Shared.DJ-FPaul.de/2794EuA1va.jpg
http://Shared.DJ-FPaul.de/f06auFz1vb.png

its stupid

the pose doesnt make sense

[umbral reef]

What the f

[ruby needle]

why would you want your base to rotate to the side which is not what you are loking at

[quiet perch]

You don't stand like that to look at a menu irl?

[ruby needle]

you open the menue it comes up in front

your model turns

and you see your shoulder apear the the bottom of the screen too

[vocal shard]

Did it just happen today after the update or before?

[ruby needle]

i dont remember it before

tho im not too active in game

[vocal shard]

I'll see if it happens to me also, later on, I never noticed it before.

Could be just the model itself too? idk.

[ruby needle]

its doing it when openign the menue so.

and is fine with it closed

while continuing to look in the same direction

so

[vocal shard]

are you guys having issues with vr right now?

[ruby needle]

ah speaking of that it happens ony ln vr and others dont seem to see it

checking it against other avatars

it does really seem to be connected to the avatar

but...

why???

[quiet perch]

I could try after work

[ruby needle]

lemme make a quick video

[toxic vapor]

I feel like VRChat is losing players. Do you think VRChat needs to give the players something new or something they've been asking for for a long time (like dual hand gestures [shameless promotion])? 😄

[umbral reef]

They need more oclac

[ocean bramble]

Let's bring back the knucklepocalypse

[ruby needle]

hotox i liked you till now

[languid beacon]

if you joined around the knuckles meme it will feel like it's decreasing because it got a huge boost of traffic. just wait until we fill the world with user scripting. things will be much more attractive.

[toxic vapor]

lol #makeKnuckelsAPresetMenuAvatar.

[ocean bramble]

I hurt myself while writing this

[ruby needle]

can we make a cats knuckle detection to detect knuckle meshes and mess them up?

[quiet perch]

😂😂

[ruby needle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGgFerStG4
thats the issue i have, and i dont really know how that can happen

[ocean bramble]

Instant decimation to 100 tris

[toxic vapor]

Oh God no.

Enable avatar wireframe mode.

[uncut trail]

Morning all

[umbral reef]

why not just towards 1

1 tris, remove the material and ezpz

[ruby needle]

btw if anyone knows why my avatar does what it does...

please tell me

[south viper]

render avatar from 8 directions and then render a quad with a special shader showing the right direction

everyone is suddenly doom guy

[languid beacon]

i feel like the home sdk will get more people l sinking their teeth into baby's first world upload

i know i will

[south viper]

I know we were sorely missing up-to-date demo stuff so I hope the home kit stuff supersedes a bunch of that old stuff

[quiet prawn]

population is about 1000% higher than when I started 7 months ago. I think it's been fine. For the most part.

[ocean bramble]

@ruby needle Looks like a Vrchat issue to me 🤔 maybe make a bug report out of this

[karmic bear]

@languid beacon I don't know how they're going to handle the logistics of it

[ruby needle]

i did change some rigging stuff to the model but yes i belive i just created a interesting szenario that causes this outcome

[languid beacon]

well i know home world was not made availavle for a long while because "it's a bad example and out of date" so i'm assuming it's a good demo now

[toxic vapor]

Player population is high sure, but how many people continue to play VRChat.

[quiet perch]

And it's only your avatar?

[ruby needle]

its only the avatar i updated today

my old avatar also doesnt do it

so i messed up the rig in a ways that causes this

but only on the menue

[quiet perch]

Before or after the update was it updates?

[ruby needle]

i didnt check before

as in had a menue open

[quiet prawn]

Thats what I mean. It's now common to see 6000 people online. As opposed to roughly 500-600 at peak.

[ruby needle]

does anyone know which file unity stores rig settings in

so i can copy over my backup

[ocean bramble]

Pepperidge Farm remembers

[ruby needle]

'k its the meta

[toxic vapor]

If you say so m8.

[languid beacon]

the knuckles boom is over. what's left here are people that decided to stay

[quiet prawn]

You also have to think. This time last year you were lucky to see 20 people online, and they were literally all in the same room.

[ruby needle]

what i interestingly also found out today was that my model was not set to humanoid

but still worked normal 😄

[ocean bramble]

Sounds like witchcraft

[ruby needle]

it does

but that really is the case

[quiet perch]

Burn him?

[languid beacon]

there's ony half as many players as the peak of the meme, but like 10x more people than before the meme :p

aka meme gave 20x traffic, which settled to 10x

[toxic vapor]

I joined in November of last year, before it became big. Now after it blew up and got popular, it seems the population is steadily dropping. Do you agree?

[ocean bramble]

!online

[floral flax]

There are 5349 users in VRChat currently

[toxic vapor]

@languid beacon most agreed.

[languid beacon]

if you came in the middle of the mess it might seem quiet now but to people who have been here a while it's much busier than it used to be

[quiet prawn]

November was after the first boom.

[toxic vapor]

I can't remember if it was late october or early-mid november.

[karmic bear]

I think you're missing a critical factor here

[quiet perch]

I came during the knuckles boom but got really into vrchat and stayed for the game and people

[karmic bear]

Which is not just hard user numbers but user retention and interaction

A huge number of that boom probably played once or twice and then fucked off forever.

[languid beacon]

i'm looking at currently playing numbers only, not signups

[karmic bear]

Not to mention they didn't really do much, they joined, turned into some avatars, clicked a bit and then stopped.

[quiet prawn]

Yeah from what I'm told was the first boom was in October. Which steadily continued through November. The the second explosive boom happened throughout December.

[languid beacon]

don't worry, vr isn't gonna be a fad, and vrchat's rivals suck. we'll be fine 😛

[ruby needle]

ok, so it was not the changes i made today

why the heck does my model twist now

and why does it work absolutely normal with a generic rig

[languid beacon]

generic rig disables all Ik

ik is twisting you probably

[ruby needle]

it should

http://Shared.DJ-FPaul.de/033aKjf1vd.png

but this model works absolutely normal

[languid beacon]

pics of brokenness pls

[toxic vapor]

Perhaps reexamining the question. What is the player retention factor and the rate of growth or decrease. Perhaps this could lead to the indication if VRChat show make more content for player retention or interest.

It would suck to have a more empty game by later this year with people getting tired of not having new or improved content.

[languid beacon]

idk personally now that i will get the home sdk when home i'll be making my first world. very small sample size but there is one data point for you

[quiet prawn]

Well, if you're worried about retention, look at why people leave.

[toxic vapor]

lol I have about six or sevent worlds, most public.

[true timber]

VRChat is actually gaining players, not losing them

https://steamcharts.com/app/438100

just look at the statistics instead of guessing

[neon sluice]

uh any one know how to get vive to run smoothly in a room full of people i just did a major update to my hardware and its still giving me problems.

[true timber]

Yeah, you upgrade your computer.

what kind of major hardware update did you do?

VRChat is mostly CPU based

[languid beacon]

no use worrying

enjoy the now

[neon sluice]

threadripper 16 core and two 1070 t1

[quiet prawn]

VRC, or well Unity in general generally gets CPU bound well before GPU.

[ruby needle]

vrchat only really uses one thread

[quiet prawn]

^

[ruby needle]

so your threadripper stings against single core beasts

[toxic vapor]

I think you're right. According to steam sales, assuming it's accuracy, the long term graph after the peak seems to rise.

[quiet prawn]

Which is a unity problem.

[ruby needle]

not problem but limitation

[neon sluice]

=/

[true timber]

@neon sluice Try this: When launching VRChat from steam, hold down shift instead and hit play, hold it down until a window pops up. Put the settings on DesktopLow (it's better than VRLow even in VR) and the resolution to as small as possible

[quiet prawn]

err yeah limitation is a better word

[true timber]

also, VRChat doesn't use multithreading so

[neon sluice]

that sucks

[true timber]

Yeah, they need to update the unity version to be able to do that, and as far as I know there's no plans to do that.

[quiet prawn]

And before anyone says upgrade to 2018... Still a thing in that build.

[true timber]

I'm pretty sure you can do multithreading in newer versions of Unity

[neon sluice]

they might want to to reduce lag that not made by internet =/

[ruby needle]

except that you dont just do that

[shy nest]

time to test my limited to 0 particle limiter settings

[true timber]

Well yeah, obviously it's not as simple as just hitting a button and updating unity

[rough pulsar]

Isn't it a case of unity 2018 multithreads better, but still doesn't take full advantage of all available cores?

[quiet prawn]

As far as I understand it's not actual multithread but some inbetween thing.

[ruby needle]

untiy 2018 alows implementing multithreading a crap ton easier and for many things

[rough pulsar]

I recall Vulkan/DX12 is part of what helps.

[toxic vapor]

I wonder how hard it would be to update unity versions. :T

[ruby needle]

what also helps is updated hmd sdk's

[quiet prawn]

Total wipe, Ivan.

[true timber]

not an easy undertaking I'd imagine, since everything they've been building off of has been on this older version

[toxic vapor]

I see. Man, I'd imagine the later Unity version would have much more features that VRC could utilize.

[true timber]

It's a bit of a shame since to be honest, all a VRChat clone would need to do to easily beat this game is to run smoother.

[toxic vapor]

I'd imagine it would cost a lot to redesign the VRChat mechanics from the ground.

Probably best to stay the way it is until they can afford it.

I think VR will only improve.

[true timber]

It's not really a matter of money

[umbral reef]

@true timber Gonna be hard to have the same things as VRC, with the same freedom without it also running badly...

And making an game like this isnt an easy task anyway

[true timber]

Not necessarily.

[craggy path]

Hello everyone 😃

[toxic vapor]

At least they don't have to pay for artists. lol

[true timber]

VRChat is definitely not the most optimal type of game in terms of performance.

[umbral reef]

Because users are plain retarded and map makers are ignorant most of the time

[true timber]

Like people were saying before, running on a newer version of unity for example that supports at least quasi-multithreading would make things a lot better.

[umbral reef]

90% of all lagg and problems of performance is because of the users...

[true timber]

It's not, I guarantee you that.

It is probably

[umbral reef]

And ey- its hard to upgrade to a new unity version if it breaks everything

[true timber]

50% of all problems maybe

[umbral reef]

And dude

[true timber]

or 60%

[umbral reef]

Ask any dev, any mod in here or any regular users and even go for the avatar makers...

Most avatars are badly optimized

[toxic vapor]

yeah, most the draw calls

[umbral reef]

Just increasing the limit for lagg on avatars wont change that

[true timber]

I come from a community that prioritizes optimization, and even with that, the fps is still terrible.

We even did a test once, all of us got into a pedestal avatar that was 1 mesh, 1 material, no dynamic bones. There was about 40 of us, and we were on an extremely optimized map, like most optimized settings you can get

still only got like 15-20fps

Of course, when we went into generic rig avatars though, the FPS was beautiful.

IK is obviously the biggest problem when it comes to performance

[umbral reef]

You still can not deny at all that having a place with 20 optimize avatars and a proper map that keeps in mind (so not a 'lag' free box with insane player counts or funny things like that) works a lot better then 10 users unoptimized

[toxic vapor]

That would have to be a performance mechanic issue I would think.

[umbral reef]

Also- how can it be that the few times i joined the talk show where they give you a hella optimized avatar to reduce lagg

It goes aye owkay for me

[true timber]

well yeah, of course maps and people's shitty avatars make an impact on FPS, but it's not like, 90% responsible for it like you're saying

[umbral reef]

Im far from running a god machine

[true timber]

I don't know how many people are in those talk show instances

[umbral reef]

Also the voip will always bring a fair bit of performance problems if its all on the same core

[true timber]

yes, that as well

[umbral reef]

So at a point you can legit just render a black screen just having the voip and other things running can be enough to make lagg

[true timber]

voip and IK are the two biggest issues when it comes to performance in this game

[reef sleet]

does anyone crash when using 7.1 surround sound

[umbral reef]

Hell got the drivers for it up to date?

And does only VRC crash or also other games?

[reef sleet]

idk just asking for a friend but only vrc crashes for them

[toxic vapor]

I think if they want to get really heavy on the performance side, they could do a prioritization filter where perhapd avatars that have draw calls above a certain amount could be prioritized from screen view and hidden when in a certain distance. My guess, im not much of a programmer.

[umbral reef]

Well its not really an issues with voip as (most often) you cant make it 10x as smooth and good
It takes insane resources to get voip working as a charm... Plenty of games out there with that problem

[true timber]

well the issue is like you pointed out voip is all on the same core

[umbral reef]

But i still think promoting proper map and avatar optimization will go a far way within this game...
Best case option, they can upgrade unity version without having to redo most things or having to drop full systems again

[true timber]

oh yeah, undoubtedly. I mean good god have you seen how many materials some of these MMD avatars have

70+

makes you want to puke

[umbral reef]

I love cats plugin because they can do an really lazy man optimization

Combine like 18 materials into 8

[true timber]

yeah combining same materials is literally one button press on CATS

[covert chasm]

I found an avatar that was so bad last night that I looked up who the author was and sent them an email asking them nicely to optimize.

[umbral reef]

👌 gods work

[median basalt]

Lol

[covert chasm]

50 materials, and had an animation of 4 clones of the avatar dancing-- each with 50 more materials

and like 60 dynamic bones on each clone

[floral aspen]

gasp

[median basalt]

People's avatars are an issue but they're not the only issue

[umbral reef]

Tupper please- I still need to sleep...
Cant have nightmares

[median basalt]

Material limits would be a great help here

[true timber]

I don't know if this was just CATS bugging out or something but one time I hit "Combine Same Materials" for some avatar I downloaded and I shit you not it said something like combined 1553 materials

[median basalt]

I atlas each and every one of my models and reduce dynamic bones on all of them

But it doesn't matter if nobody else in the room does it

[true timber]

same, I've got two versions of every avatar I use, both atlassed, one with dynamic bones one without

[covert chasm]

@true timber sounds like a loop ran out of control

[umbral reef]

Cats is often bug free--
And if its not they almost always announce it on there discord

[median basalt]

Yeah, I had CATS combine 24402 materials once

[umbral reef]

And it could be all parts where lose and not just material parts

[median basalt]

Was a model with imported motion so it had all those weird rigidbody thingies

[true timber]

yeah I can't imagine there being over 1500 materials but you never know with these MMD deviantart models man

[umbral reef]

I wonder how that would even load

Like instant self crasher ?

[vocal shard]

No

[true timber]

No, it'd probably work fine ingame

[vocal shard]

Just a loading screen til it loads

And watch those frames drop

[median basalt]

I have had to block people that were obviously using way too many materials

[vocal shard]

well i crashed with no warning lol

[median basalt]

Wish there was a way to locally turn people into the MR bot over a certain material count.

[true timber]

If you think about it, that's 1500 draw calls, the same as if it was a room with 21 people with 70 draw call avatars.

so it would be horribly unoptimized but nothing crash-worthy

[median basalt]

Like, just a material slider in the options menu

If they're above the cutoff their avatar gets blocked

[true timber]

I wish there was an option for block by default to also disable IK

[umbral reef]

hmmm well owkay if you put it like that

[median basalt]

^^^^

[true timber]

cause even on the gray models that are blocked they still have IK

[vocal shard]

im just waiting for the update to like end the whole avatar lag thing

[median basalt]

IK is heavy as hell

[vocal shard]

Like togas avatars

just stop the bloody popping lag

[median basalt]

When I activate IK on a child model on a gesture it lags as hell

[floral aspen]

the whole avatar lag thing is because users don't optimize

[median basalt]

Yeah, but we should force them to optimize their shit

[true timber]

Are you talking about getting a loading screen when you switch avatars?

Because I've been getting that every time lately

and I dunno why or what changed

[umbral reef]

Crazy keep yelling at people to not use that cursed unity and upload shit website
AND yell at them to start optimizing there stuff (manually or with cats plugin) within blender)

[median basalt]

Limit materials to 15. Limit dynamic bones to 100.

[toxic vapor]

Im suprised how used to lag i got in VR, it used to be the worst before i got used to it.

[median basalt]

@toxic vapor I'll never get used to 15 FPS

[umbral reef]

Like the website thou shall not name has so many shoddy avatars totally not optimized

[median basalt]

Yeah, fuck that site

[true timber]

Yeah, increase the poly limit to 60k instead of 20k, and put a limit on materials and dynamic bones.

[umbral reef]

:lul: im just waiting for them to dm me again asking why im so against the website

[true timber]

because polygons honestly dont impact performance that hugely

[vocal shard]

like for some reason its able to handle like 15 people but not 20 or more

No

[true timber]

unless you have over 64k

[vocal shard]

Over 30 is unoptimized

[true timber]

which splits into 2 meshes

[floral aspen]

I thought it was 65K

[true timber]

64k, 65k, somewhere around there I dunno exactly

[vocal shard]

Its better to at least have 15 drawcalls or lower

[umbral reef]

Its around that number Just dont cap it to close to there as there are uneducated peeps still wanting to bypass it then

[toxic vapor]

I would prefer 60k. That seem right to me.

[true timber]

Well, it shouldn't be as easy to bypass

[median basalt]

@true timber that's a good idea

If we limit polys to 65k and materials to 15 within the same SDK update, people will be incentivized to update. If we only limit their materials, people will just stay on the old SDK.

[floral aspen]

Until they obfuscate the code in the SDK it will be easy to bypass

[true timber]

yeah, exactly

[median basalt]

It's absolutely insane that people have to optimize their polys, which barely does anything. But they're not limiting materials at all

The thing is, less savvy people will abide by the SDK limits

And less savvy people are usually the most guilty of having unoptimized materials

[umbral reef]

Just make it so the old SDK borks :lul:

[vocal shard]

also apparently vrchat ended up crashing on people

[true timber]

20k is a really low limit too

[median basalt]

If we limit material counts in the SDK and raise the poly limit, the vast majority of people will stop decimating, and will instead start texture atlasing (where it actually matters)

[umbral reef]

The story that got told to me is that the poly cap is there to guide people into optimization...

Like that worked

[true timber]

most models I see are between 30 and 45

[median basalt]

I've seen some beautiful models that were all under 65k

[vocal shard]

65k would be best limit

[toxic vapor]

I think 15 materials is a bit low, maybe 25.

[median basalt]

65k is a great limit

[vocal shard]

No 15 is good

[median basalt]

@toxic vapor you don't need more than 15 materials

[umbral reef]

How is 15 low...

[true timber]

15 materials isn't low at all,

[median basalt]

15 is high already

[toxic vapor]

Agree 65.

[true timber]

hell you don't even need more than 1 material

[umbral reef]

15 is a fair bit already

[true timber]

15 is already kinda high, really should be 10 or below

[floral aspen]

25 is way too high

[median basalt]

I mean, almost all of my newer avatars have 1 material. If you want to get super fancy with shaders, then 15 should be more than enough.

We already force people to decimate right now

[toxic vapor]

I mean imagine having multipart weapons with unique features.

[umbral reef]

Basic combining of materials gets you almost always below that count
If you want to do special stuff you need to learn how to optimize things anyway so making things even lower ain to hard then

[median basalt]

Why not force them to atlas instead?

[umbral reef]

And that is for the lazy people totally fine then

[median basalt]

Even if they'll only atlas the clothes for example

[umbral reef]

As Rokk said, just atlas your stuff

[floral aspen]

You only need 1 material and no more than 65k polys. If people would take time to bake normal maps you can make a fairly low poly avatar look really good

[toxic vapor]

3ds max doesnt do atlasing.

[true timber]

why arent you using blender

[vocal shard]

I have 12 drawcalls with 32k polys

[umbral reef]

Well tidus one material would limit a lot of cool effects with shaders

[true timber]

cut dot's head off

[umbral reef]

But having it be higher then 15 is not needed at all

[median basalt]

I think 1 material is too low of a limit

[floral aspen]

I wasn't saying to limit it to one material

[median basalt]

I like 5 as a limit

[vocal shard]

Bruh my heads 3 drawcalls

[median basalt]

But not everyone will agree on 5

[umbral reef]

Imo i love te number 10 so i would like that ❤

[floral aspen]

Just that for a basic avatar 1 material is all you need

[median basalt]

10 materials sounds like more than enough for anyone, ever

[umbral reef]

5 would force a ton of people to change there shoddy optimized things though

[median basalt]

Heck, even for intricate or detailed avatars, 1 material can be enough. I've ported some super good looking models with just 1 material

[true timber]

Yeah there's really no reason to ever need more than 10

[umbral reef]

10 is more then enough as you said

[floral aspen]

I think I have 6 or 7 materials on my current main avatar. Haven't gotten around to atlasing it yet

[toxic vapor]

I say 25 mayerials because if their sizes are 512 or 256, it doesnt take too much too load.

[true timber]

a 4k atlas with 1 material will look exactly the same quality as a model that isn't atlassed

[median basalt]

I have never needed any bigger than a 4k atlas for even a super detailed model

[true timber]

yeah there's no reason to ever go over 4k

[umbral reef]

I got 7 or 8 materials? And i need like 3 for real if i wanted to take the time

[true timber]

a lot of people say 2k is enough, but meh I'll stick with 4k

[median basalt]

2k is not enough for some models IMO

[umbral reef]

But as i got nothing else but that on it no dynamic bones or odd things its totally fine for people

[floral aspen]

yeah I don't have any dyna bones either

[median basalt]

Even if you literally just tile the textures manually, 2k still ain't enough

[true timber]

dynamic bones are worse than materials anyway

[median basalt]

Dynamic bones are pretty bad, people tend to overlook that (myself included!)

I went back and merged weights on so many bones

[toxic vapor]

Well considering lightning from FF13 has about 35 materials.

[true timber]

dont get me wrong I love dynamic bones I've got a zillion of them

[floral aspen]

6 or 7 materials, no dyna bones, and around 8K polys

[median basalt]

I even went back and weight painted a skirt to the legs so I wouldn't have to deal with dynamic bones

[true timber]

but I've also got another version of my avatar without the bones for when I need it

[median basalt]

It was either 100 dynamic bones with proper colliders, cloth, or weight paint

[umbral reef]

Isnt it best to use nothing the cloth stuff instead of dynamic when it can? Pretty sure i heard someone once say that and as i dont use both i got no idea

[floral aspen]

I thought they were about the same performance wise

[true timber]

I believe Tupper said they're about the same in terms of performance

[median basalt]

Cloth has some special cases to optimize