vrchat-general-1

[sullen stirrup]

just strap a tracker to the headset and use spacecal

[obsidian drum]

I dont want multiple parts and programs I have to jerryrig together.

[fluid bane]

You're thinking of these in the wrong light. In businesses they're not fbt products, but positional trackers to track whatever you might want. Movie studios for example use them to track real cameras in a virtual space for CGI

[keen kernel]

Clearly you need xbox Kinect 360 to track your new steam frame

[gleaming isle]

You can also use the 3.0 trackers for virtual production (Ive done so)

[obsidian drum]

I have an index because it’s plug and play. I don’t need extra bs. Big screen seems like the true successor to index now.

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, the tracking quality from vive trackers isn't that great, especially if you don't need realtime tracking

[fluid bane]

That is in fact what I am saying. The ultimate trackers kinda suck for this, they aren't a viable alternative to 3.0s

[obsidian drum]

Unless frame has addons and modules you can get to make it work with my current setup. We’ll see.

[sullen stirrup]

I don't think the frame was really meant to replace an index

[fluid bane]

It definitely was

[wild palm]

Thank you, someone understands why Lighthouse tracking still exists as it does. It's not for the consumers, it's for the businesses

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, not for vrchat users that are in the lighthouse ecosystem

[keen kernel]

Who knows what can be plugged in that one port, would be interesting if it had a light house tracker

[wild palm]

The Index is EOL with the announcement of the Frame, so yes, the Steam Frame is meant to replace the Index essentially.

[fluid bane]

This is clearly not a concern for valve, they've stopped index production in favour of frame

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, the bigscreen beyond makes more sense for index users wanting an upgrade

[obsidian drum]

Yep

[fluid bane]

Ok but that doesn't mean the frame isn't replacing the index in Valve's lineup

[latent mango]

... does it tho?
Can always hybrid for FBT and use the wireless VR benefit and the controllers (which is the one thing they definitely did well... at least by specs )

[wild palm]

It is. The Index was sunset as soon as the Frame was announced, they're already stopped producing it and it's officially EOL.

[keen kernel]

Think it like this: the steam frame is not replacing the index, the big screen and other legacy vr hmd's did that. The steam frame is a new category that joins the steam deck lineup

[wild palm]

Actually correction.
The Index has been out of production for a while, but it wasnt OFFICIALLY sunset until this big hardware announcement.

[fluid bane]

Yeah I know

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, if you have basestation 2.0 and knuckles controllers and the frame isn't in the $400 price range, then I think the bigscreen beyond is a better choice. Especially if you prefer the quality/stability of a wired solution

[latent mango]

Wireless is (when doen right) also quality and stable... and much more convenient

Especialy with FBT

[wild palm]

According to Valve, the Steam Frame has a top spec price that is "below the Valve Index"

[latent mango]

And Valve privides their own dongle solution, for those that are not tech savy for own solution

[sullen stirrup]

yeah, but having to charge the headset every 2 or less hours?

[latent mango]

... no?

Powerbanks exist, someone will make a hotswap system for the Frame

[sullen stirrup]

I only use my quest 2 plugged into a charger or else it dies in ~90 minutes

[wild palm]

We don't know the battery life of the Frame yet, besides that it is 21wh.

[sullen stirrup]

then that's just more weight or a cable to your pocket

[latent mango]

Hot Swap battery system.

[latent mango]

cable tugs too, battery on back actually is a very welcome counter

You can stay in denial but Wireless VR is amazing.

[gleaming isle]

With my q3 I can play for close to 3 hours b4 I need to plug it in for like 30 minutes and then I can play for awhile again, the q2 just sucks at charging

[latent mango]

but not trough 2.4ghz or crowded 5ghz.

[keen kernel]

Agree! Freedom

I use the battery strap for my q3

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, you can get ceiling cable mounts, although realistically, the cable weighs less than a battery counterbalance does

[zenith drum]

I love wireless vr.
No cables no tripping.

[latent mango]

Those are.
A: Not hassle free, now you tug the otherway
B: Need to be installed in the wirst place
C: imo are even more annoying.

[wild palm]

There's a lot people are misunderstanding about the Frame here.
It is not a Standalone headset in itself, it is a full on HYBRID.
It is not running android, it is running an Arm-based Linux OS, meaning it is capable (with the right programs and functions) of running PCVR games in house.

[latent mango]

It is a stand alone headset.

[zenith drum]

Its gonna struggle on vrchat though.

[sullen stirrup]

can run any pcvr game
*on a processor "probably less powerful than a steam deck"

[fluid bane]

Running a different OS than Android does not make it not standalone

[latent mango]

Run and... actually run is a very different thign

[wraith mesa]

Wonder if vrc devs are gonna get a frame devkit

[zenith drum]

Its standalone and pcvr .
Sooo.... yeah.

[wild palm]

I did not say it can run ANY game. Just that it is capable of running VR games in general.

[zenith drum]

Anyways im gonna get the steam frame

[keen kernel]

Steam Frame is an Ouya

[latent mango]

I think VRChat get's a lot of eary access stuff

[gleaming isle]

Through FEX it can pretty much open any 64-86x game, run on the other hand is another question

[zenith drum]

Do you?

[tired scroll]

im running boneworks on that bihh

[latent mango]

👀 I know what that is and nearly preordered one of those back in the days.

[sullen stirrup]

at 10fps :kek:

[wild palm]

Again, it is CAPABLE of running them.
Whether it runs them well is up to the developers to optimize their games in such an environment.

[keen kernel]

Oh god imagine if you did

[zenith drum]

Ahhh the deckard .what a load of scam.

[latent mango]

VRChat isn't exactly small, especially in the higher end / nerdy range.

[keen kernel]

Stress test: play vrchat

[sullen stirrup]

it's only the 2nd most played vr supported game on steam, so idk

[terse pewter]

should I get the valve index this christmas or wait for the steam frame to come out?

[crisp delta]

what's 1st

[iron girder]

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-plankton-meme-gif-15640350090336605258

[crisp delta]

do not get the index

[sullen stirrup]

war thunder, allegedly

[gleaming isle]

I would definitely say not to get the Index and wait for the Frame or another headset

[sullen stirrup]

https://steamdb.info/charts/?category=53

[iron girder]

Yeah the index is a bit old at this point

[zenith drum]

I remember 3 years ago we had that headset called the decker gear.
For 599 you can get face and eye tracking 2k lenses oled display
10 dollar preorder.
Anyways massive scam

[sullen stirrup]

for $300 you can get a psvr2 headset with eye tracking and 2k oled displays

[light shard]

no man sky and skyrimvr carry

[zenith drum]

Plus a 89 dollar adapter.

[sullen stirrup]

you don't need the official one tbf

[wild palm]

Wait for the Frame.
Quest 3 at the current moment is a mess, BB2 is really only for hardcore PCVR users, and anything Vive currently offers is uh.. well it's VR hardware I guess.

[keen kernel]

Who's first? Not gorilla tag i hope..

[mighty heath]

will the steam frame be worth it chat

[keen kernel]

Banned from vr

[wraith mesa]

Hah that would be funny

[light shard]

hold off on the steam frame, i remember my deck the first few months of release was an absolute pain in the butt

[zenith drum]

Honestly if you want light house tracking. We have software to merge two tracking together anyways.

[mighty heath]

ty

[wraith mesa]

First is the steamVR loading menu

[keen kernel]

That's fine then xD

[light shard]

even though its SteamOS its still running new hardware

[sullen stirrup]

mfw the quest 2 tracking drifts every 5 minutes

[light shard]

which in itself is tricky if they havent fixed SteamVR for Linux

[wild palm]

This.
I use a Quest 3 with a mixed vr setup consisting of four Vive 3.0 Trackers calibrated through OpenSpace.

[light shard]

cant even view your desktop in the menu unless you run x11, but everything rn is using wayland

[vestal hearth]

Yeah atp time to never recommend the index again lol

[zenith drum]

I see the same with steamframe anyways

[light shard]

i would get the steam frame if we wait for reviews and software updates first ngl

[zenith drum]

Maybe in the future they release soft for base station tracking too

[keen kernel]

I'm really low on budget, is google cardboard a good buy?

[latent mango]

That's very copium given they are discontinuing basestations in the same step as retiring index.

[crisp delta]

yes :lmfao:

[light shard]

i wont lie to you, ive used a google cardboard for PCVR with switch controllers before

[zenith drum]

[latent mango]

i know your pain

[keen kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/what-monkey-shook-shocked-surprised-gif-8153885586429536809

[light shard]

HTC still produces base stations for steamvr afiak

[sullen stirrup]

back in my day it was wii remotes

[light shard]

their cosmos elite requires them

[zenith drum]

I used phone vr at one point and realized you cant vrchat on that

[crisp delta]

and the vives

[zenith drum]

[light shard]

https://www.vive.com/ca/accessory/base-station2/

[latent mango]

is to be seen
But does not change that Valve stops their production so also their interest in doing anything else with them.

[wild palm]

That's for businesses at this point only. They don't make enough from consumer sales to justify still producing them.

[sullen stirrup]

2x more espensive than the steam store here and out of stock

[light shard]

we will see what the future holds, i suspect IMU trackers ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[keen kernel]

Cause vive is so good these days right...

[light shard]

no i mean i literally used PCVR with a phone before using switch controllers as my beat saber controllers, it was bad

[zenith drum]

I mean didnt they stop their production last year?

[gleaming isle]

Their base stations are almost identical to Valves just slight changes

[light shard]

this was like covid, then I bought the Samsung Odyssey+, big mistake but good oled screen

[latent mango]

The nerds will either start building their own or a new cheaper system.
I still think IMU+ April Tags or some other more basic external reference one combiend with IMU could be amazing.

[zenith drum]

Valve already handed off base station production off to htc

[keen kernel]

It's the same..

https://tenor.com/view/theyre-the-same-picture-the-office-pam-the-office-us-gif-20757621

[gleaming isle]

The led light in the front is different, that is it 😭

[light shard]

im actually in the process of building slime trackers for me and the wife, taking forever tho

[wild palm]

They're the same. Valve just sold the production to HTC Vive.

[crisp delta]

no it's not

[light shard]

we dont VR as much its more of a just because I can and I need something to do kinda thing

[latent mango]

That's just IMU tho, IMU standalone imo is not it.
Some kind of reliable external reference combiend with IMU is the way to go

[zenith drum]

[mint niche]

Valve still makes the base stations, only their index controllers are out of stock..

[crisp delta]

really? i just bought some

[light shard]

I had an idea of using a DLSR and QR tracking

[wild palm]

To be fair Valve is only sunsetting the Index on their front.
Another manufacturer like Vive could pick up the Index from them and continue producing it (for whatever reason)

[latent mango]

They are EOL'ing the Basestations too.

[light shard]

since slime software is open source

[fresh wren]

Holy typo.

[surreal mural]

does anyone know how to fix the issue of quest not letting you link to a pc with a cable?

[wraith mesa]

Valve said they're looking to exit production of their Lighthouse tracked systems, but are willing to help other companies produce them instead

[minor notch]

why is it called vr chat

even tho there’s a mode on pc

[wild palm]

Yep. This.

[sullen stirrup]

restart your pc and quest maybe?

[fresh wren]

Poolkitty, you went Italian for a second there.

[minor notch]

Shouldn’t it be called pc chat?

[sullen stirrup]

has android and ios support now tho

[latent mango]

... huh

[minor notch]

what the fuck

it’s on mobile

[surreal mural]

did both and task manager reset ovr

[latent mango]

that's a whole different story to VR.

It already was VR way back when oculus go didn't even exist yet.

[gleaming isle]

Has anyone thought of making a tracker that uses an IMU but uses the headsets movement + playspace data to prevent it from drifting? (If that is even possible)

[wild palm]

Valve does NOT manufacture base stations anymore. That's either deadstock or they're selling the Vive-made base stations for ease of access.

[keen kernel]

VRStandaloneMobilePCChat there happy?

[mint niche]

oh i see

[light shard]

it can be if you make your own steamvr driver or monodo driver to handle the data, thats why i probably am going with QR tracking because i cba lmao

[latent mango]

QR tracking?

[sullen stirrup]

tbf, it would make more sense to use the headset's cameras to do qr tracking on the trackers if anything

[light shard]

it was a trick we used to use before vive released trackers, we used kinect with a DLSR camera, subject would have QR codes/bulbs on parts of their body, kinect would handle direct movement, PC would handle non-indirect space tracking

so you can track like, if they do a 360 turn

[latent mango]

I assume you mean AprilTags

That's not QR's

[light shard]

no, we used actual QR codes

[latent mango]

With the right camera**s** and enough processing power, April Tag's is super precise.

[light shard]

this was 2016ish

[latent mango]

You sure you don't mean these?
https://docs.cbteeple.com/assets/img/apriltags_30mm.png

[sullen stirrup]

2d barcodes :D

[latent mango]

AprilTags

[light shard]

I am sure cause I printed them out myself. it was a cheap on-the-go studio setup, kind of like how you can use a pi to track if something on the face is an eye or a mouth, the QR code would be Tracker1-Back Tracker1-Front, etc

[gleaming isle]

Well Im just surprised no one has done it b4

[wild palm]

I'm going to get the Steam Frame about as soon as it launches for two reasons.
1: Valve has experience with their hardware through the Steam Deck and OLED Deck.

2: Valve is a gamer-focused company, and this headset (and all the other Steam Hardware) is aimed majority at the gaming market, and therefore is made with features they know gamers would appreciate (like self-illumanting IR SLAM tracking.)

[light shard]

i can 100% gaurentee we did not use apriltags

this wasnt for VR though this was for motion capture

[fleet vessel]

why would you give tags to april? it’s a month not a movie or smth

[latent mango]

Like... what one may use AprilTags for

This is not a VR invention

[gleaming isle]

Tbh Im thinking, just as the steam deck got an OLED model down the line, if the Frame is super popular it may get an OLED model down the line as well (If they can fix the brightness issue), so it may be worth it to wait

[latent mango]

[keen kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/man-running-out-of-restaurant-man-eating-man-eating-and-running-away-cartoon-eating-cartoon-gif-14206145866551753880

[light shard]

i know, sorry sorry. again though we just generated our own QR code stickers and used a wetsuit lmao it was a student film project

[keen kernel]

I'm heading to bed, goodnight!

[wild palm]

The Frame may get an OLED model if what I hear is correct. LCD panels are being used for the launch model for cost and efficiency.

[fleet vessel]

peak

[sullen stirrup]

you can't have a battery powered oled headset with pancake lenses. oled displays are too dim and pancake lenses block too much light.

[light shard]

i didn't hear about apriltags till just now because my focus was on the software and hardware

[shut sundial]

steam frame gang lets go

[latent mango]

You can

[wild palm]

You can.

[latent mango]

You are trading off different aspects.

[light shard]

camera resolution, battery life, density

weight

heat disappation

[subtle perch]

best setup for vrchat right now?

[keen kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/sword-art-online-sao-kirito-logging-in-vr-gif-6412414586843030071

[latent mango]

AprilTags are basically pixel patterns that have ID's and are specific patters to calculate their relation in 3D space from a set perspective.

[light shard]

anyway, I guess I will be using apriltags, I will have to do more research

[wild palm]

Remember that Valve wanted the Frame to be available to as much of the market as possible, so cost-effective LCDs are the best option.

[light shard]

I appreciate you enlightening me, I was incorrect. I will use this to research more <3

[gleaming isle]

Thus why I brought up the brightness issue. But with new OLED technology coming out it wouldn't be too hard to get OLED working. OLED Laptops can reach HDR True Black 1000 (Sustained 1k nits, full screen), and with tandem technology becoming bigger it wouldn't be too much

[light shard]

it should be possible to use slime tracking with composite tracking this way though, a bit stupid and overkill but hey, whats experimentation without fun

[wild palm]

Again, Valve has officially stated that the Frame's price ceiling is "below the Valve Index"

[gleaming isle]

I do remember seeing a like experimental tracker that did what I suggested, but I completely forget abt the name of it

[wild palm]

So likely below $1200, maybe even $900.

[gleaming isle]

It is stated to be below the Index Kit's price which is $999

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, sure, but the play for dream headset lasts 1 hour on battery and half the weight is the battery... (total weight of 650g, about the weight of a vision pro)

[latent mango]

That's my kinda thinking have april tags on the IMU trackers so a fixed perspective camera can continously calibrate when ever it is in view, but the IMU's are them self standalone doing the motion and positional data.

[sullen stirrup]

the play for dream headset is the only one I'm aware of to have oled and pancake lenses

[gleaming isle]

BS2 has it, just doesn't require a battery

[latent mango]

I don't raelly know what you mean here

[gleaming isle]

Also depending on the technology of OLEDs power efficiency may become better

making it so the need for a bigger battery isn't needed

[sullen stirrup]

oleds aren't power efficient

[latent mango]

... they are tho

[sullen stirrup]

not at the brightness needed for pancake lenses, apparently

[latent mango]

Instead of having a fully lit backplane all the time and substracting light from it, you only emit what you actually need

[light shard]

I think initially they can be used to offset drifting and judging by the 2 videos and the research paper its possible though I'd need to make my own driver for it which is absolutely doable as well. This should be a good experiment next year

[gleaming isle]

They are and aren't, in scenes that have a lot of black it is infinitely more efficient, but if it is pure white, it is around the same level

[latent mango]

... that's still not how that works.

[gleaming isle]

Btw for example, the Steam Deck OLED has about 60% more battery life than the normal one (about 20% from the display, 40% from bigger battery)

[wild palm]

Play for Dream (or IQIYI as they used to be known in China) released a fully standalone VR headset sometime this year, although the specs are somewhat poor and it is not exactly cheap either.

[sullen stirrup]

pancake lenses allegedly loose 90% of light

[light shard]

I've already made my own face tracking and eye tracking for my vive pro 2, its not in the realm of impossible anymore to make my own FBT with composite tracking yippie, how exciting

[latent mango]

xD no

[gleaming isle]

They lose some but not to that extent

[latent mango]

The lense stack does have an impact on lighth output but have you ever seend a 90% tint on a car? xD

[gleaming isle]

But it is enough that OLED isn't as favorable compared to LCD in a lot of cases

[latent mango]

It's more about the peak that is desired for impressive dynamics and without risking burn in

[runic forge]

awww mods too quick, i was gonna tell him to die

[latent mango]

It can do it bright

But... tradeoffs

Both have pro's and con's

[gleaming isle]

Tbh I want a VR headset that can do HDR 😭 would be sick

[light shard]

doesnt the dream air se have pancake oled? battery life seems BAD though

[latent mango]

THat's not from the oled tho

[light shard]

oh no not from the oled lol

you can tell when they mention nothing about battery life or battery specs for a wireless headset :^)

and the image is an AI render

[wild palm]

Tbh the last time I even heard of Play for Dream was when I was in my headset-collecting phase and had specially imported headsets from IQIYI (Play for Dream's Chinese parent company)

[runic forge]

god i love oled icl......

i dont know how i ever used a phone without it

[light shard]

honestly, lcd isnt that bad. the valve index had pretty good colors and brightness for being lcd so i dont really mind lcd as much for VR if its good

[wild palm]

Wait I mixed up companies

Its YVR, not IQIYI

[latent mango]

Brightness is not the issue of LCD, black levels is

[light shard]

the black levels werent that bad either

not oled good but not bad for LCD

[latent mango]

LCD's can litterally be used for ap rojector that would burn your eyes

[light shard]

i still use my odyssey+ wmr headset for the OLED for elite dangerous btw

[wild palm]

My bad, YVR is the original company name. They released two China-only standalones back in 2022, the YVR 1 and 2 respectively.

[light shard]

if you playin a space game its gotta be oled

[wild palm]

Both are terrible btw, I have both headsets and they have awful ergonomics and poor battery life, no adjustable IPD and tinny speakers

[gleaming isle]

Just looked this up

So depending on the lens themselves, they can range from 10-25% light efficiency (basically reduces the brightness by 75-90%) while Fresnel lenses have a light efficiency of 60-80%.

For example
For a pancake lens to reach 100 nit output after the lens it would need to have a display that reaches around 667 nits
Comparatively
A Fresnel lens would only need around 143 nits

[fleet vessel]

mrow

[latent mango]

Can you link me to whre you took taht from

[gleaming isle]

But the problem with OLED displays is that at higher brightness levels burn-in occurs, (BS has that problem and literally just lowered max brightness levels), and as well there is limited OLED technologies that can reach as bright as needed in SDR mode

[latent mango]

Cus i think there is a confusion between optical loss and material (absorbtion) loss

[sullen stirrup]

the paper "Double Path Pancake Optics for HMD to Improve Light Efficiency" claims "Conventional pancake optics" as having 20% total light transmittance. I've seen other places claim 12% efficiency and 10%. Remember, with an oled screen, you're making a pixel smaller than the width of a hair emit light, with having 2x more pixels than a normal phone screen. Meanwhile, LCDs just have a big backlight and only need to filter un-necessary light

[gleaming isle]

OLED itself isn't the problem here

it is just the light in OLED

OLED for example combine colors to reach white

[sullen stirrup]

each pixel in an oled screen needs to emit light. Each pixel in an lcd screen only needs to absorb the unused light

[gleaming isle]

Yes but the LCD display is more power hungry as it has to light the entire screen all the time

OLED has per pixel dimming control, making it less power hungry

[latent mango]

The projection factor and the loss from the type of lens stack is 3 things

Regardless of lens type if i turn 1 pixel into 4 pixels i have only 1/4 of the light power (thats not loss, that's just the projection rate)
loss is what is additionally missing from the theoreical ideal in/out rate

[gleaming isle]

OLED technology just is inefficient in how it produces light, thus it doesn't produce as much, but with Tandem OLEDs coming out brightness is becoming less of a problem

[sullen stirrup]

a big LED backlight is much more efficient than millions of micro "leds"

[gleaming isle]

Some OLED laptops can reach 1000 nits full screen

[gleaming isle]

It isn't though

[latent mango]

... no

[sullen stirrup]

you also have to remember that OLED displays flicker extremely fast to control brightness

[latent mango]

the millions of micro leg's are tiny and only those actually needed on

[light shard]

micro leg

[gleaming isle]

Which in most cases no one can see, only extremely sensitive people or poorly made OLEDs

[latent mango]

You have to remember that on a LCD the backlight is always one and absorbed by a crystal matrice that is switched to let light trough as requested.

The crystal matrice also looses a good amount of the light as heat

[inner sorrel]

is there anyone good at making avatars that can point me in the right direction?

[gleaming isle]

The only time a LCD display is more power efficient is when you are looking at a white screen, or nearly white screen, almost all other times, the OLED is more power efficient

[latent mango]

OLED is kinda a lot, but super super tiny and efficient led's directly shining at you. (with some diffusion... yes i know)

[gleaming isle]

in which then you have different subpixel arrays that change how it produces light

[latent mango]

And even then it's something one would really need to test for.

[latent mango]

Yeah, but all that is emitted is what you actually want

Not stuff you need to take out and turns to heat

[gleaming isle]

Yeah but each array technology is a lot different with the results it produces

QD-OLED has a lot of fullness in colors and produces a higher color range compared to WOLED

but QD-OLED isn't as bright

[latent mango]

There is different types

But they all are active emitters

which is the major impact in terms of efficiency

[gleaming isle]

Yeah

[latent mango]

LCD's are funny when you remove the front polarisation filter 👀

[gleaming isle]

Though tbh once Micro LEDs become cheaper (It is INSANELY EXPENSIVE) it would be a no brainer for most people to go to them instead

[sullen stirrup]

anyways, from what I see, people say oleds aren't efficient enough to be used with pancake lenses. If valve ends up proving me wrong, I'll eat my words, but I wouldn't keep my hopes up

[patent jungle]

Anyone have a theory on what it's price point will be compared to Bigscreen 2e

[gleaming isle]

I saw someone modify a LCD display to become OLED-Like, let me get the video name

[tranquil coral]

Why are we talking about disorders

[pulsar delta]

Steam frame?

[patent jungle]

I can't imagine it would be cheaper than a Bigscreen since it also has controllers and speakers and is a PC

[latent mango]

You can not modify a LCD dispaly to become oled like.

You propably mean a double LCD which gives good blacks (but needs even more backlight) but is still fundamentally different to OLED.

[gleaming isle]

But it has to compete with the Quest because if it doesn't it will not get much of any sales, so it would have to be cheaper than the bs

[patent jungle]

Sure but Valve isn't really known to subsidize like that, they tend to just price to profit per model, don't they?

[iron girder]

https://tenor.com/view/cta-cat-cat-swimming-yeah-nyxn-gif-22803107

[gleaming isle]

Not rlly, the Steam Machine is estimated to be around $800, and the VR kit itself for the index was $999

so if you remove the base station price from that it is closer to $700

[fluid bane]

I assume you're thinking of DIY perks' dual layer LCD video

[gleaming isle]

Yeah that one, was a super interesting watch, then also the DIY "Infinity contrast" tv which isn't a LCD but is super cool

[latent mango]

Yeah i think so too

Still very different from OLED.

A Cathode Ray Tube Display would be more comparable

[gleaming isle]

Very much so and wouldn't be possible to do in a small form factor

[fluid bane]

Dual layer LCD is something you'd find in reference monitors, it never made it into the consumer market due to the expense and inefficiency

[latent mango]

It's not that, it's about still being fundamentally different technology

even a double LCD is a substractive indirect light system.

[fluid bane]

Not even that, really. OLED is more comparable to LCD than CRT

[patent jungle]

Anyone here have a index AND a bigscreen 2e? I'm wondering how the fov compares in your opinion

[latent mango]

I dunno about that

The glowing phosphor is kind of like the emitting color cells on a oled

[patent jungle]

I mean Oled and CRT both have zero light black

[latent mango]

the drive train for them is majorly different tho

[patent jungle]

at least except for glare

[fluid bane]

They are fundamentally different in how they're illuminated and display an image

[latent mango]

I mean, i did it for the the comparisson of direct vs indirect light.

[fluid bane]

Technically speaking, modern OLEDs are not even that

[pulsar delta]

Meow

[fluid bane]

They shine light at the subpixel level through a coloured filter similar to, you guessed it, LCD

[tired delta]

is the website down for anyone else?

[fluid bane]

Only RGB stripe OLEDs use true RGB OLEDs

But we don't see those much anymore

[gleaming isle]

I've never even heard of those 😭

[fading beacon]

Steam frame epicness

@fluid bane official reaction

[sullen stirrup]

so for reference, the play for dream headset (oled with pancake lenses) has about the same battery capacity as a quest 3 and someone went from 100% to 20% when using virtual desktop over 1 hour

[gleaming isle]

What brightness are they playing at? As that has a huge role

[fluid bane]

they were in very early OLED PC monitors, and I believe the PS Vita as well (though I may be wrong on this one)

[gleaming isle]

Personally I play at 10% brightness and can play for several, several hours before I need to plug in for a little bit

[latent mango]

Both are the headsets not comparable but also there is many factors that can change the runtime on the Q3 it self between different persons

[fluid bane]

it looks pretty good

[sullen stirrup]

to have a good comparison, you'd have to know what the real brightness output is, not the option in the settings menu

[gleaming isle]

Well I'm saying directly comparing a Q3 to another Q3

[latent mango]

Brightness, settings, Backround tasks / Software Version, yada yada

[terse pewter]

should I get the pimax crystal light for christmas or wait and get the steam frame?

[sullen stirrup]

but yeah, you'd have to actually use the same settings in virtual desktop as well

anyways, the fact the headset is sold with an external battery pack with twice the capacity as the internal battery probably speaks volumes about the efficiency

[latent mango]

If it has variable wifi TX power, i guess even distance to the router could matter

[latent mango]

No

It has very different hardware in it, it also has it at a different spot allowing to easil add more as you counter balance rather than increase frontal weight even mroe

[gleaming isle]

You see phones that can have a battery life up to 48 hours still have battery packs made for them

So just because it has a battery pack add-on doesn't make it power inefficient immediately

[fair flint]

https://tenor.com/view/toji-fushiguro-toji-toji-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-toji-fushiguro-jjk-gif-14425395207236161194

[gleaming isle]

Though tbh Frame's controllers just look so damn good 😭

[fair flint]

I need to see ts

[fleet vessel]

smelly

[fading beacon]

Happiness

[gleaming isle]

Btw yeah, the Frame is only going to have 1 USB-C port which will be on the battery pack, limited to USB 2.0, but has 45w charging, but that means no way of direct connection at all unless you do something with the PCie slot in the front

Is also only suppose to have 1-2ms of latency wirelessly

[vestal hearth]

You can tell vrchat doesn’t know what being poor is because their poll doesn’t have a “can’t afford it” option (the numbers won’t matter, I know I won’t be able to afford it lmao)

[latent mango]

Good luck on that
But it'll be fine

[sullen stirrup]

wasn't that 1-2ms of encoding latency?

[latent mango]

Sounds more reasonable

[gleaming isle]

From what LTT said no, but I could have heard it wrong as well

[latent mango]

Propably cus the whole stack is gonna be 2 digit

[shut sundial]

me when i get my steam frame

[latent mango]

like encode, tx, airtime, rx, process, display latency

but that's fine a bit of latency is normal

[sullen stirrup]

As for the encoding latency, well, thanks to some clever parallelization of the encoding, you can expect anywhere from 1 to two milliseconds of extra latency on a modern GPU and four to five for a slightly older but still VR capable one.

[gleaming isle]

ah so yeah just encoding alright

But it will still be a lot better than all the other wireless options

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, it's no different from steam link on the quest

[gleaming isle]

Foveated streaming

[sullen stirrup]

that's existed on the quest pro for over 2 years, yeah

[tranquil gorge]

Will VRC be on Steam Frame?

[latent mango]

And full chain control can give you nice custom tweaking options

[junior moth]

you download vrchat from steam so surely

[tranquil gorge]

Makes me wonder how Valve will do it differently or better

[tranquil gorge]

I have doubts thanks to the existence of EAC

[junior moth]

vrchat developers could make it work in some future

[tranquil gorge]

BUT I forgot that Fortnite not being on Linux is literally a Tim Epic decision, not a technical issue

[gleaming isle]

All I've heard about the Quest Pro is that it doesn't have the best performance over wireless

[sullen stirrup]

steam link on the quest pro with foveated encoding is the same experience you'd get on the steam frame.

[gleaming isle]

I'd also say no because of the specific antenna on the frame meant only for wireless

[sullen stirrup]

galaxy xr?

[gleaming isle]

Uh what about it?

[sullen stirrup]

it would also support foveated encoding with steam link

[gleaming isle]

Yeah but it is for XR and also costs nearly $2k

[fair flint]

2k!!!! Wat

[gleaming isle]

Also the Frame coming with a dongle for 6ghz is going to help a lot of people who don't have 6ghz native networking

Especially for people who live in congested areas like apartments or dorms

[tranquil gorge]

And I thought the AVP was bad

[tranquil gorge]

That sounds like 1ghz better than dedicated router

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, it's a "spatial computer" too

[gleaming isle]

so the 5ghz band is pretty congested but the 6ghz isn't, and also doesn't go as far, but that means it works really well in closer areas (Like your room with your pc), and most people aren't using the 6ghz band so it is super open

[sullen stirrup]

(6ghz is also exclusive to wifi 6 and above, which has more in place to prevent collisions)

[austere glen]

AHHHHH guysss i found out the new steam headset has v rammmmmmmmm

[gleaming isle]

I thought it was 6e and above?

[gleaming isle]

Well it has 16gb' of LDDRX5 ram or smth like that, so the ram and vram are shared

[devout void]

is pcvr having login issues orrr

[austere glen]

no 12 gb ram + 8gb vram

[gleaming isle]

That isn't the listed specs

[austere glen]

shit i looked at the box

imma cry now

[vestal hearth]

It says it’s got 16gb standalone ayes

[austere glen]

the box got 8 gb

[gleaming isle]

Yeah
"16GB Unified LPDDR5X RAM"

[austere glen]

i wonder if steam gonna try making annother socail vr plaform

vrchat might be cooked gang

social vr is the future of socializing

[gleaming isle]

Def not, they would just give VRChat some money for probably a stake in the company

[austere glen]

noooooooooo

nooo steam dont do that

[gleaming isle]

It would be too hard to dethrone VRC or make a social VR to be on the same level as VRC

[austere glen]

lowkey if steam bought vrc they would look soooo bad cause of all the controvercy

[austere glen]

prob not if done right

[gleaming isle]

Never said buy out, said a stake in the company

[tacit harness]

Going to eat all of your chips tbh

[austere glen]

well steam doesnt do stakes in the company

but vrchat not gonna get bought by steam

not sure they'd sell anyways

[tacit harness]

I love steak

[gleaming isle]

I think you got that wrong. Steam itself is a private company, but it can give money to whoever they want, meaning if they wanted to have a part ownership (could be like 1%) they could

[austere glen]

ngl steak overrated

[austere glen]

L take

[tacit harness]

You just have to cook it right. Which is medium rare

[austere glen]

anyways

[gleaming isle]

It literally is not a L take 😭 , Valve owns several stakes in other companies, and also has bought out several companies

[austere glen]

still steam not buying vrchat

[gleaming isle]

I never said that they would, what I said is that it would be easier to do so because you said that they would make a social VR game

Which Valve has no need to make a social game

[austere glen]

that would be stuipd plus they are a game studio and have the founds to make a huge one so they got all of the other platfoms beat

[glossy flame]

Am I getting old or is the VKET website just an unreadable, un-navigable mess of ADHD?

[austere glen]

ooohhh yes they do

[gleaming isle]

They literally don't, have you seen the mess of Horizon Worlds?

Or Chillout VR, or any other social VR game?

[tacit harness]

Still waiting for half life 3

[gleaming isle]

Horizon Worlds had so much budget yet failed to do good, budget =/= good

[wraith mesa]

so I wanted to bring up, on the frame,that interface connector under the face gasket is like 40 pins

theres no way that is only for usb2, audio, and battery

[glossy flame]

Right? How on earth did they screw that up so bad (not just Meta but literally every other Social VR platform tbh)

[austere glen]

exactly they have a really good game studio that has made a staple game in the vr space and they have the money to back it up and the acess to amazing devs they have every platform beat

[gleaming isle]

It is because they misread their target audience and decided to promote to businesses and failed

[gloomy notch]

If anyone plays undertale, go to my dms.

[gleaming isle]

It is the exact same thing Nvidia did, but Nvidia did it right and now they are the richest company in the world

[austere glen]

what?

tf not even close lmao

[gleaming isle]

Nvidia currently is the richest company at $5 Trillion USD

[austere glen]

apple number one btw and it was considered and gross overestimate

[gleaming isle]

Apple isn't anymore dude

[austere glen]

which it is

[gleaming isle]

Nvidia is literally ranked #1 anywhere, Apple is #2, the microsoft, then alphabet

[austere glen]

cant upload ss but looked it up found that'

[glossy flame]

There IS a business use case for social & work VR though, just they are way to keen to sterilize everything. VRChat thrives of its creative scene and business-appropriate is antithetical to that. Meta made something that was like mouldy tapioca, not only was it so beige that noone wanted it, but its buggy as all hell too (even HzWorlds itself not just the stuff made in it)

[gleaming isle]

Yeah I'm looking at it rn, Apple is at $4 Trillion, Nvidia is at $4.718 Trillion

[gleaming isle]

Which they gambled and did not suceed

[austere glen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/1ncv5bf/nvidia_is_worth_over_4t_adjusted_for_inflation/ L bozo

[glossy flame]

Oh yeah completely, Im just amazed that they spent so much, had so many people and what came out was completely lacking in any form of quality, from creative vision to working UIs. Id almost argue its because they had so many cooks / money that it ended up like that

[gleaming isle]

Why are you on reddit for market cap analysis? Go on an actual website

[sullen stirrup]

a business use case for vr requires an extremely clear screen at a reasonable price. Current headsets can't fulfill both

[austere glen]

honestly i trust reddit more half the time ngl justified too

[gleaming isle]

Def not, I've seen someone on reddit say that aliens are invading us 3 weeks ago and that the world would end

[glossy flame]

Eh, Id argue VR conferences (not meetings) is a clear and ready use case that VRChat on PCVR can already do well enough. Its a clear win over Zoom, and a fraction of the cost of a flight

[gleaming isle]

Reddit is a community driven platform with no review for anything

[austere glen]

look at the comments

like bruh

[gleaming isle]

Do you not understand market cap?

[austere glen]

bruh im talkign about the alien post

[sullen stirrup]

vr screens are still much blurrier than real screens. There's also no real reason to have vr meetings when meetings in teams fill the same purpose but don't require a hot brick strapped to your forehead

[gleaming isle]

I'm saying reddit is not trustworthy and never will be for actual information

[tranquil gorge]

Isn’t that the Steam Machine

[gleaming isle]

Nope the Steam Machine is using a custom AMD card

[tranquil gorge]

Oh sorry I meant to reply to the one who just said 16gb of vram

[austere glen]

you think nvidas value is higher than the gdp on inda which has over 1 .4 billion people and is the 3rd highest gdp in the world

[tranquil gorge]

Smart move to go AMD while Nvidia is congested with AI

[sullen stirrup]

RAM: 16GB Unified LPDDR5X RAM
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe

[gleaming isle]

It is by market cap value... Do they make $5 Trillion a year, no. But it is the market cap value which the market cap value is the value of the company's outstanding shares of stock

That is what they define the richest companies in the world, in which Nvidia is #1, then Apple at #2

[sullen stirrup]

steam machine is 16gb ddr5 (socketed) sodimm system memory + 8gb gddr6 vram

[zenith drum]

Steam frame also ddr5

[gleaming isle]

gonna be capable of like 8.5/gbps

[glass condor]

boroagfp[wagoawg

[gloomy notch]

Who here watches JJK?

[glass condor]

i have seen the first season

[gloomy notch]

Have you read the manga?

[glass condor]

not yet

[sullen stirrup]

market cap is calculated by taking how much someone is offering to buy a stock of the company for multiplied by the total shares the company has. If every stock was sold, the price per share would likely fall like a rock.

[austere glen]

https://www.aaii.com/investingideas/article/351488-is-nvidia-corporation-nvda-overvalued#:~:text=What Investors Should Know About,Read the full AAII disclaimer
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidias-stock-significantly-overvalued-comprehensive-153650007.html
https://ziggma.com/is-nvidia-overvalued/#:~:text=As of mid-2025%2C Nvidia,buy despite its high valuation?
https://www.fool.com/investing/2025/10/16/nvidia-stock-has-risen-1500-in-3-years-bubble/#:~:text=Accounts receivable and inventories have,Nvidia being in a bubble.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nvidia-stock-has-risen-1500-3-years-it-bubble#:~:text=Nonetheless%2C it ( Nvidia ) 's worth,when that "slower" growth remains relatively rapid.

bunch of sites gang back me up bruh

[tranquil gorge]

https://preview.redd.it/years-of-waiting-and-finally-it-is-out-v0-9lmtjmzmpw0g1.jpeg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=031e3dd37eb032bd622fddc61c025e195e99d0ae

[tranquil gorge]

Dank

[gleaming isle]

Bro 💀 bro is pulling out the most random sites wtf

[austere glen]

yes i know but it overvalued

[gleaming isle]

That doesn't matter, it is currently valued as the richest company in the world

[austere glen]

nah what aaii and yahoo in that b

[gleaming isle]

and is also making more money per year than Apple is

Apple is estimated to make $100 Billion USD this year while Nvidia is estimated to make $128 Billion USD this year

[austere glen]

bro would deadass be suied to oblivion if aaii lied

[gloomy notch]

https://jujutsukaisenreads.com

[gleaming isle]

Just because a company is overvalued doesn't change the value it is at

At the moment, Nvidia is the richest company in the world

That is estimated to make $128 Billion USD this year

[austere glen]

nvida makes gpus and shit and ai apple controls a massive world wide ecosystem in some of the biggest country's in the world. Tell me that shit makes sense

[fresh wren]

What the hell are you guys arguing about now?

[gleaming isle]

Nvidia makes AI Enterprise GPUs that currently are the only option in AI datacenter and business models

[austere glen]

bro thinks nvida higher value than apple

[sullen stirrup]

a single rack of nvidia gpus (NVIDIA GB200 NVL72) is estimated to cost ~$3 million each

[austere glen]

and

[austere glen]

and

like deadass and

[sullen stirrup]

ai datacenters have hundreds of these racks?

[austere glen]

apple owns the world nvida owns the datacenters?

[gleaming isle]

Apple does not own the world

[hidden bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-i-flip-gp-us-gpu-graphics-card-scalper-scalping-graphics-card-gif-24988488

[gleaming isle]

Outside of the US apple does not have a large stake

[sullen stirrup]

apple doesn't sell that many phones

[gloomy notch]

@glass condor https://jujutsukaisenreads.com

[austere glen]

bruh go anywhere in the world people holden iphones

[austere glen]

burh what

[gleaming isle]

Quite the opposite I see more android phones

[zenith drum]

Outside of usa we are mostly android

[glass condor]

oh okay thank u

[sullen stirrup]

people have been buying less and less phones as phones last longer. It's easy to still use a 5 year old phone

[gleaming isle]

Apple is also considered a luxury phone brand outside of the US, therefore people spend less on cheaper android phones

[zenith drum]

Software last longer too

[austere glen]

what im saying is you see one company everywhere android you see thousands

[sullen stirrup]

a wild UK appears

[gleaming isle]

Android is 1 thing, made by Google, there are several brands that make phones that run on Android OS

[austere glen]

lmaoooo

google made the os bruh

most people that make shizz for it arent google

google pretty much just steped in

[zenith drum]

Android phone as cheap as 100 dollars

[gleaming isle]

Bro what? Do you not understand what android is

[junior moth]

blend dat man whos that man and why did you do it

[gleaming isle]

Android is an Open-Source OS that companies can build upon or change, but Android itself was made by Google

[blazing quest]

They're blending the men

[gleaming isle]

That man is blender the software

[vernal dirge]

infuriated!

whatare these two ypaping about..

[junior moth]

do you think he put a whole man inside a blender

shouldn't we contact the authorities

[gleaming isle]

@austere glen It is estimated roughly 4 Billion android phones are in use around the world right now compared to apples 1.5 billion

[austere glen]

still iphone everywhere android OS phone not google phone everywhere 1 company vs hundreds of distros of OS used by thousands of company's

[vernal dirge]

yes

definitely

[austere glen]

apple 1 provider bruh

[junior moth]

@ annie

[austere glen]

3 billon thouands of providers

[gleaming isle]

That doesn't change the fact that Apple isn't selling million dollar products which Nvidia is doing, and companies are spending billions of dollars for their products in AI datacenters

[zenith drum]

For the first time the most sold phone wasnt apple but samsung.

[austere glen]

chat this is such a dumb debate imma agree to disagree cause im right and this has become a agruemnt not a debate

[junior moth]

apple please sell me more of your phones that are made entirely from aluminum foil

[gleaming isle]

I think bro has some pride issues 😭

[junior moth]

yum yum

[austere glen]

apple laptop,desktop,watch, ipad, those shit i pods, clocks, other smart shit like bro got 1.5billon phones

[gleaming isle]

Okay and? That still doesn't mean it makes more than Nvidia

[junior moth]

what this say

[austere glen]

yes it does

[junior moth]

youre late to the party

[sullen stirrup]

kinda mid

[twin basalt]

extremely late

ik

[gleaming isle]

They literally don't 😭 Bro just pack it up, you are arguing with no evidence or facts

[austere glen]

im the only one that has

[twin basalt]

what is it missing if it's "kinda mid"?

[junior moth]

anyways samsung best phone brand please dont fight me

[austere glen]

nvida got gpus apple got all kinds of shizz

[austere glen]

agreed

[twin basalt]

I plan on getting the S25 Ultra. cus' i just love doing APK's & shit

expecially with homebrewing your phone to look hella futuristic

[junior moth]

isnt it nearly the same as the s24 ultra

[sour lintel]

Howdy everyone, how's everyone doing today?

[austere glen]

argueing

[junior moth]

kid named everyone

[sullen stirrup]

basestation tracking, color passthru, lossless connectivity with pc, lenses are "good, but color isn't the best"

[austere glen]

about how im right and their wrong at this point

[junior moth]

and then ignore

win all arguments

[twin basalt]

if you don't have the highest of the phones then it's worth getting it. but if you have something that's just a little bit worse than the S25. then it's not worth getting

[austere glen]

yes

[twin basalt]

isn't it the same with almost all headsets... well. except for the Pimax headsets

[gleaming isle]

Okay and? Doesn't make them the richest brand, Nvidia is currently the only reason why the AI buzz is happening, without Nvidia it wouldn't be a thing

[junior moth]

yes but thats not what im saying

[sullen stirrup]

personally I find wireless vr as an obstacle rather than a benefit. I don't want to fight with wireless vr eating random vram or random connection issues or steamvr crashing or steamvr stopping the video stream while audio keeps playing or virtual desktop desyncing my left and right eyes

[zenith drum]

I personally dont have this issue

[junior moth]

that last one doesnt seem like an issue id like to look crosseyed in vr

[austere glen]

🫷 i win

[zenith drum]

I find it way better then needing to deal with cables

[twin basalt]

honestly... Wired & Wireless both has it's ups and downs. pros and cons. good and bads.

[gleaming isle]

Bro is arguing like a literal child 😭

[junior moth]

ill blend you 2 if you keep arguing

[zenith drum]

The only problem i would have is takes more steps to get on

[sullen stirrup]

I also am always plugged into a charger anyways

[austere glen]

🇱

[junior moth]

isnt there an extra battery behind your head

[sullen stirrup]

I have the official quest 2 battery elite strap which feels like it does nothing

(it was 20gbp on sale and my original strap snapped)

[junior moth]

yeah theres your issue

you bought from meta

[gleaming isle]

I will say that my Q2 had a horrible battery life as well, but my Q3 didn't have any issues really

[twin basalt]

S24 & S25 almost have the same specs. but if you really want the best of the best. go with S25. but if you just want to cheap out. go with S24. although there's really no point to that if you're gonna cheap out a little to get the S24

[twin basalt]

never buy anything from meta

[junior moth]

how about the cameras

[small harbor]

i went out today with a friend that i just met

[twin basalt]

Google Pixel all the fuckin' way

[junior moth]

did the sky fall

[junior moth]

between the 2

[sullen stirrup]

don't the pixels have (relatively) horrible processors

[small harbor]

Lit met them yesterday, didnt even know their name till we were back home

[gleaming isle]

If I remember correctly, the S23 Ultra has the best camera atm with full 10x optical zoom, compared to the S25 Ultra's 5x optical zoom

[twin basalt]

no damn difference. maybe S25 has higher clarity.

[small harbor]

met them online but decided to hang irl today

[junior moth]

feels like the same so id go for 24

[twin basalt]

they do. but oh my god their camera quality is pretty damn insane

[sullen stirrup]

I'm still on a pixel 4a 🙃

[twin basalt]

i finna get the S25 Ultra cus' i like da best of da best

[junior moth]

https://tenor.com/view/fuck-your-stupid-cereal-morning-good-morning-holidays-cereal-night-gif-19872313

[twin basalt]

flexing purposes too

[sullen stirrup]

cereal killer

[icy dove]

whaddya think about xiaomi 17 pro max

[twin basalt]

but yeah lowk i might just decide to get the BSB2e

[twin basalt]

pretty good phone ngl, cus' it's Xiaomi.

[junior moth]

did ltt make a video for the headsets

[sullen stirrup]

if you're already buying chinaphone, then get a redmagic 11 pro

[twin basalt]

yeah. LTT reviewed the Steam Frame

[junior moth]

why would you tell him to buy explosives

[twin basalt]

Rare. but it can happen.

[sullen stirrup]

probably about as explosive as the xiaomi phones tbh

[junior moth]

[fair flint]

Reading this from a Xiaomi phone

[twin basalt]

it's not like an actual time bomb. it's just a luck based and use case detonator

have y'all ever had Xiaomi's or RedMagic's before...

[fair flint]

What's wrong with Xiaomi guys will I explode in the next 4 hours

[junior moth]

taiwan is a real country. speak this out loud

[fair flint]

Taiwan is a real country

[junior moth]

hopefully it didnt hurt

[sullen stirrup]

my friend had (a redmagic) one, but he actually went to the effort of playing pc games on it. He was mad that it didn't get any software updates.

[gleaming isle]

For the BSB2 yes and the Frame

[fair flint]

I just got beheaded

[twin basalt]

Minor Inconvenience. there's lots of ways to improve performance

[icy dove]

the only problem with xiaomi its the software update

mine s21 + still getting update from samsung

[twin basalt]

unless the PC Apps are locked behind a Country.

[twin basalt]

never really had any issues with Software Updates with my previous Xiaomis & Redmagics

[junior moth]

redmagic is a scam it doesnt have red magic

im soo funny

[twin basalt]

rn i'm just running a very very cracked screen Samsung Galaxy A11

[sullen stirrup]

I'd never buy a phone that had this line just on principal. There's no reason to not update the phone in other regions.

REDMAGIC currently provides five years of software support, including major Android OS upgrades and regular security patches, for EU customers in line with new EU regulations that took effect on June 20, 2025. In other markets, REDMAGIC offers three years of software support.

[icy dove]

sorry didn't phrase is correctly * they only provide software updates for only two years

[twin basalt]

ion see nothin' wrong wit' that

[icy dove]

two or three i forgot

[twin basalt]

that's companies for ya

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, I've used my phone for over 5 years at this point. Only "update" I got recently was one capping my battery at 40% due to a battery fault. Thanks google

[twin basalt]

just gotta use it till it's no longer functional

[icy dove]

alrighty im planning get xiaomi 17 pro max next year global release

[twin basalt]

although i'd reccommend transfering any data you need to somewhere else

[icy dove]

+1

[twin basalt]

what

[sullen stirrup]

I feel like phones have a lot of useless fads that do nothing. There's no point in back glass aside from making the phone more expensive and more fragile. Wireless charging works fine with plastic backed phones.

[fleet vessel]

actually it does

[junior moth]

then am i not worthy

[twin basalt]

Phone Innovation pretty much died

[sullen stirrup]

we have camera plateaus now!

[fair flint]

My Xiaomi is lowkey a bum it's been lagging or slow sometimes lately

And the camera app don't even work

[twin basalt]

that's... that's just a size increase...

[fair flint]

[sullen stirrup]

it was a joke about the "innovation" not improving the actual product

[fleet vessel]

you have a fucking XIAOMI

[fair flint]

Yes I do boy

My Xiaomi will solo

[sullen stirrup]

🇨🇳

[fleet vessel]

I have an iphone 8 and it’s prob better

[fair flint]

😭

[twin basalt]

yeah ik... then soon enough they're gonna go for the "We now have a Camera Peninsula!!!"

[fair flint]

Idk I've had this one for years

[twin basalt]

out

[fair flint]

I want a new one but also idk what to get

[fleet vessel]

why

[twin basalt]

now

[fleet vessel]

what did I do

[twin basalt]

i have a peculiar H A T R E D towards iPhone

[fair flint]

What phones do you recommend guys

[fleet vessel]

phonesist

[fleet vessel]

iphone
just to annoy this guy

[sullen stirrup]

I mean, at least the back glass and buttons don't fall off the iPhone, unlike samsung...

[twin basalt]

Android Supremacy

[fair flint]

Okay I will get ihpoje pro max

[fleet vessel]

or explode

[fair flint]

Miau miau

[fleet vessel]

your prob someone that upgrades every time a new phone comes out don’t you

[twin basalt]

I've had multiple samsungs over the past few years and i have NEVER heard this typa issue before

[fair flint]

Jaundice guy 93

[twin basalt]

no. which is why i hate iPhone & iPhone users

[sullen stirrup]

a chinese battery manufacturer would never figure out the pattern for the battery quality control just so the factory could send bad batteries

[fleet vessel]

what did I do

[fair flint]

Yooo this guy a hater 😭

[twin basalt]

nothing

[sullen stirrup]

that's the issue, you've had multiple phones over the last few years. Try using the same one for 5 years.

[fair flint]

I'm hitting the 5 year mark with my Xiaomi guys will I live

[twin basalt]

each phone varying from 1 year to 7 years

[swift solar]

i had a samsung s10 and had no issues, but when i had an iphone 6 years ago the screen heavily yellowed and the battery was lava.

[fleet vessel]

yea i’ve had my phone for awhile
not even a scratch on it
0 issues

[fair flint]

Bro I drop my phone CONSTANTLY no scratches I'm goated

My phone case is fucked tho

[fleet vessel]

gobbla slippery fingers

[sullen stirrup]

my partner's samsung S10+ had every single button fall off, backglass fell off twice.

[fair flint]

Butter

[glossy inlet]

Uh

[swift solar]

how is that possible the back of the phone is GLUED in

[twin basalt]

the shorter life span phones it either got stolen or broken by some dumbass. the long lasting ones had some obvious degrading quality that is inevitable.

[swift solar]

you cant even take off the back without breaking it

[fleet vessel]

honestly the new iphone is just absolute peak
I’m sorry even android users gotta admit it’s insane

[fair flint]

Bro was skydiving with that phone and dropping it

[sullen stirrup]

you certainly can take it off without breaking it

[fair flint]

What even is the new one

[twin basalt]

i mean yeah... multiple reasons

[swift solar]

yeah but its not an easy thing to do

[sullen stirrup]

but they fidgetted with it a lot and would slide their nail in it

[swift solar]

...

[fleet vessel]

17 and air
new frame is cool and the new chip is rlly good

[fair flint]

Well welwlel

[swift solar]

i mean of course thats why LOL

the glue loosens

[sullen stirrup]

doesn't change the fact every single button broke and fell out

[swift solar]

because he loosened the back??

you cant blame a machine for breaking when you're the one who started breaking it

[sullen stirrup]

they're not connected to the back. There's a tiny piece of plastic holding it in which will break over time

[fair flint]

I'm crine

Our brains are shrinking

[sullen stirrup]

the buttons are fully held in with the metal frame of the phone and the plastic on the internals of the button

[sage relic]

It's just a phone man, Samsung and Apple are just the same as the year before with a $200 mark up and new ai features. Only difference this year is apple released a skinnier one with worse specs

[fair flint]

But is it over 1000 dolla

[swift solar]

iphone is overpriced for nothing to change other than having to buy a new phone because iphone stops giving a damn about the older ones and itll brick

and its more expensive to fix given you have to be certified to fix them apparently unless that changed

[sullen stirrup]

if I can pay $1,000 for a phone and use it for 7 years without having to worry about it loosing software support, I'd be happy.

[fair flint]

I'd rather use it for 15 years

[zenith drum]

[fair flint]

U u wawa uwa

[fleet vessel]

M5 chip is like 30% faster in just graphics then the M4

that’s what I’m mostly excited about and the new vapor chamber

and the square camera

those are the only 3 things u care about

ok also the new frame is rlly good
so 4 things

[fair flint]

Hayahaaa

https://tenor.com/view/scarseven-gif-9974438153675837610

[sullen stirrup]

the camera isn't square, it's an octogon!

[fleet vessel]

yea like just don’t buy a new phone every year
it’s not needed

[lean crater]

Might end up quittimg vrchat soon

[fair flint]

Octagon camera lmaooooo

[lean crater]

Its been a good 4 years

[sullen stirrup]

cool

[fair flint]

Congratulations

[fluid bane]

this is just blatantly false, Apple provides the longest software support for their phones out of any manufacturer by several years

[fleet vessel]

the front camera is square

[fair flint]

Opaaaa

Phone war commence

[sage relic]

Apple phones don't use the m series chips, those are exclusive to the laptops and tablets

[fair flint]

Feel like I'm back in primary school

[fleet vessel]

sorry I just kinda included everything about new gen apple stuff I’m excited abt twt

[fluid bane]

don't forget they finally put a 120Hz display in the base model phone too

17 is probably the most significant generation they've had in a long time just for that alone

[sullen stirrup]

It's an octogon.
https://forums.macrumors.com/data/attachments/1412/1412384-3de9a79a39ee4eb29542a543acc3c273.jpg

[fleet vessel]

I was proven wrong
oblate octagon

[vestal hearth]

Oh look a square with chopped corners

[fair flint]

Octabon

[sage relic]

I just hate when people are too stuck in one direction or the other, like at the flagship level all the phones are essentially the same thing and you're paying for operating system preference

[sullen stirrup]

the M series CPUs use the same cores as the A series CPUs, but normally only about half of the P cores are kept.

[fair flint]

Why is your pfp did you see that let's take a look

[fleet vessel]

yea pretty much
altho some phones do pull ahead in specs some years
but only for a short time they normally catch up

[sage relic]

I'm observing

[fair flint]

https://tenor.com/view/cheetah-eyes-emoji-eyes-stan-twt-stan-twitter-gif-6355754546978180375

#isawthat

[fleet vessel]

honestly I hate the people that say oh it’s 1000 dollars for the phone that’s insane
like
most phones cost 1k+
also unless you’re stupid who’s buying a phone every time a new one comes out

[hallow inlet]

Stupid people

[vestal hearth]

I unfortunately have met lots of people who do that

Cap’n Klurckles

[fleet vessel]

my phone is 3 years old and I don’t plan on replacing it till iphone bring back the FUCKING fingerprint reader

[fluid bane]

that's not gonna happen

[sullen stirrup]

If I'm spending $1k for a phone, I'd rather buy a phone with an OS that isn't created by an advertising agency.

[sage relic]

The a17 in the iPhone 17 is about a 10% performance increase compared to the a16

Honestly I think I'd rather wait till the 16 price goes down and just buy of of those for a few hundred cheaper if I was looking

[fleet vessel]

buy an older model they’re always a lot cheaper

[hallow inlet]

Thats the way to go imo

[swift solar]

Tell that to my iphone 6 years ago that yellowed and burned the screen, defend apple all you want but it's overpriced garbage.

[fleet vessel]

only time i’ve ever bought a phone right when it came out is my current one
-# which I lied it isn’t the 8 Ɛ:<
it’s the iphone SE the newest one with the fingerprint scanner

and this phone even on launch wasn’t that expensive cause it’s just an 8 with better specs

[fleet vessel]

name a phone that isn’t overpriced garbage
please

[sage relic]

I personally only buy mid range phones cause they usually have some things that they remove from the flagships

Like a headphone jack and actually coming with a charger

[swift solar]

I had the s10, paid 200$ for it and it worked well for longer.

[sage relic]

Motorola G series phones

[swift solar]

It's underpriced and OLD.

Crazy old iphones couldn't do that.

Oh wait! It's cause the updates are BURNING it.

[long oriole]

Is vrchat down or am I trippin

Nvm

[swift solar]

My experience with apple is miserable while every android phone I ever had has given me more usefulness.

[sullen stirrup]

for me, an iPhone 17 would be 5x faster single core, 5.2x faster multi core than my pixel 4a according to geekbench 😅

[fleet vessel]

yea I’m seeing the iphone XS which came out at the same time for the same exact price
and as someone who has had many iphones in the past and use them for a long time
it would most likely be the exact same

[long oriole]

I love being ignored tyyyy ✋😌

[fierce monolith]

You're welcome

[hallow inlet]

The pic me aura

[fleet vessel]

yellow just a hater a rage baiter or an idiot with 0 actual knowledge

make your guesses now

[swift solar]

Just because I said an opinion im rage baiting?

Yikes, we really reached this point in this discord where anything negative means ragebait.

[vestal hearth]

Yo mama’s ragebait

[swift solar]

real

[vestal hearth]

#owned

[fair flint]

Ruh roh

[swift solar]

#crying

[wraith torrent]

[fair flint]

Ladies ladies calm down

[wraith torrent]

what new cringe have I stumbled upon today

[vestal hearth]

Phantom ragebait

[fair flint]

Clam down

[swift solar]

im phantom ragebaiting

[hallow inlet]

Yo mama raging on my bait ???

[wraith torrent]

ello folks whats up

[vestal hearth]

She phantom on my bait till I rage

[fair flint]

Hehe fishing bait

[swift solar]

#samsunggang

[wraith torrent]

Fishing sounds fun

[fair flint]

Hashtag china

[fleet vessel]

see there’s a difference between opinions
and being a hypocrite

saying it’s overpriced with having the same prices
saying it’s bad while having the same specs
saying they don’t last while them lasting the same time

basing your entire opinion off of something that happened once is childish at best

[vestal hearth]

Fishing is so BORING 😭

[fair flint]

Fishing is aweosme

[fleet vessel]

the fishing horror

[wraith torrent]

fishing with friends is fun tho

[sullen stirrup]

the difference is, samsung hasn't updated the s10 in 3 years and the iphone xr had an update 7 days ago.

[wraith torrent]

I mean there's a reason that fishing world is so popular

[hallow inlet]

/fish

[fair flint]

I lob it

[fleet vessel]

don’t remind me
omg

[fair flint]

What is slash fish

LOL

[fleet vessel]

…

[wraith torrent]

I think it'd be cool if they mixed that fishing world with a farming game and maybe like a house customizer game

[fair flint]

You

[fleet vessel]

you’

[swift solar]

I uh, mistyped oop

[fair flint]

Oopsie

[fleet vessel]

lol we see that take your time

[hallow inlet]

Fishing bot on discord server.

[fleet vessel]

don’t say any more

[hallow inlet]

Who said that?

[fair flint]

Wat about jt

[harsh surge]

this is sad, i just bought meta quest 3 vr and steam release a vr too T_T

[hallow inlet]

Huh, it like Pokémon but discord

Kinda

[fleet vessel]

oh it did?

[fair flint]

Has arsonist been e fishing

[fleet vessel]

no

list has been

[golden abyss]

Well I am still a little Mamehinata with Draw? @golden abyss Face?

[harsh surge]

they release 3 hardware, new controller, steam machine, and vr T_T

[sullen stirrup]

I doubt the steam frame will be that much better, unless foveated encoding/eye tracking is very important to you

[fleet vessel]

bro I still have the quest 1

[hallow inlet]

I love how my name is just list with you

[fair flint]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-hanni-new-jeans-stinky-face-ew-gif-14900207989535810402

[swift solar]

All you've done is say "No that's not true!" over my experience as if you've seen what I had to go through. Also I don't see any hypocrisy if you wanna use buzzwords that's fine with me man all I said was in my opinion I think apple is overpriced garbage I'm sorry I offended gods strongest apple defender. And it isn't one experience? It's just MY personal experience as I said but I understand reading comprehension is hard.

[fleet vessel]

just noticed?

[harsh surge]

my first vr is quest 3 T_T i save for 1 year to buy it

[hallow inlet]

No, but idc to correct it

[sullen stirrup]

my spouse still uses their S10+ and they've been complaining the last 2 years that it's slow and they want to get a new phone

[fair flint]

LOLLL

I'll get you a new headset klurckle

[golden abyss]

We Vive htc a Vr and Different?

[sullen stirrup]

sir you're having a stroke

[harsh surge]

i think (not sure) it can be modded since steamos = linux i think its good for dev like me

[fresh wren]

Oh hi Vedal.

[golden abyss]

Vision Fusion HTC vive. I hope things?

[wraith torrent]

e

[fair flint]

What is happening

[shut sundial]

🐢

[sullen stirrup]

nothing stops you from developing apps for the quest 3

[fresh wren]

HorizonOS = Linux too.

[harsh surge]

but you need to develop with their own SDK right ?

[fresh wren]

Just more locked-down.

[fair flint]

I'm gonna go play blockblast

[harsh surge]

ahh yess this issue

[swift solar]

Yeah, fair enough it eventually slows down but it wasn't YELLOWING on the screen atleast and that swiping doesn't take 5 seconds. I also witnesssed a co-worker show me his iphone 8? and it was as bad.

[sullen stirrup]

you can just target openxr for android

[fleet vessel]

you say your experience but i’ve only ever seen you say one a few times actually. and you don’t see any hypocrisy wow must be a little blind as you criticize apple for the same things samsung does but sing its praise idk about you but I see that as being a hypocrite. and again I alr said this before you have only mentioned that one phone you had idk how long ago “that yellowed and burned the screen”

[fleet vessel]

no
I like my quest 1

[stray steppe]

It will literally be better, this is the first standalone headset with the option to have the pc version of Vrchat running instead of the shitty android version

[zenith drum]

Steam frame

[grim dawn]

Anyone selling fbt 😭

[fresh wren]

Oooooh, Fooni yelled.

[harsh surge]

yoo chill with the caps

[shut sundial]

oops i had cap locks on

[stable valve]

Is anyone elses game keep crashing on launch?

[sullen stirrup]

if you think vrchat will run well on the steam frame on the pc version, you're mistaken.

[shut sundial]

but yeah i'll be getting it

[fluid bane]

Dawg it's not going to run the pc version of vrc on the headset in standalone mode 😭

[zenith drum]

Vrc getting a Steam frame mode

Only poor or medium avatar shows.

[fresh wren]

How much is it supposed to cost? 👀

[zenith drum]

[stray steppe]

Im not mistaken i looked at the specs and talked with somebody who had the chance to try the headset earlier it can run vrchat pc version the problem is that in bigger instances it gets problems

[fluid bane]

Valve isn't magic, they're using a bog standard phone processor in the steam frame, not anything resembling pc hardware

[sullen stirrup]

the steam frame uses a processor closer in power to a quest 3 than a pc. If the quest could run "pc vrchat", then "android vrchat" wouldn't be as limited as it is.

[fluid bane]

You are mistaken

[harsh surge]

isnt that same as quest 3 ? in standalone

[orchid otter]

I can’t talk near my mom anymore

[zenith drum]

Im assuming less then 1000.
So like 998
Or 899

[fresh wren]

Mmm.

[swift solar]

I feel bad that you don't understand what hypocrisy means. Hope you take the time to keep yourself calm and take the second to google. Feelings in the way of your perspective is bad for you!

[sullen stirrup]

less than an index. That's all they said officially

[fresh wren]

So about the same price as the Ally X.

[swift solar]

Anyways, dropping this argument as I don't want vrchat mods to kill me at the stake.

[swift herald]

is vrc+ needed to be able to use portal skins?

[fluid bane]

They said they're targeting a lower price point than Index, so could be anywhere between $0 and $999

[orchid otter]

No

Vrc just lower the price

[stray steppe]

How comes u say that ? U tried it yet or someone u know ?

[golden abyss]

List Kokonatsu and I have to you?

[shut sundial]

i will be super surprised if its $600

[fresh wren]

https://tenor.com/view/ghostpolitics-ghost-money-dollar-s0ul-when-he-goes-to-the-bbc-store-gif-18403753

[fluid bane]

You can look up the specs right now on Valve's own website for it. It's a phone processor, it's going to run apps like a phone would.

[acoustic badger]

Good night everyone

[fluid bane]

It's just a Snapdragon 8 gen3, not even an XR specific version

[sullen stirrup]

vrchat hardly runs at 60fps on a gaming pc with 1 avatar. I'd hate to see it on a gpu with 10x less power

[stray steppe]

I looked at the specs and as i said i also know from someone who got their hands on it to try it whats it capable of ? It can run vrchat but as i said it gets heavy problems as soon as the world or the Avatar are not well optimized

[stray steppe]

If u get under 60 fps on a gaming pc with 1 avatar ur doing smth wrong ?

[fluid bane]

"John Valve" in a public black cat lobby is lying to you buddy

[sullen stirrup]

okay so imagine if there was a way to prevent people from using unoptimized avatars on standalone headsets that can't render them without performance impacts

[stray steppe]

haha ur so funny

[fleet vessel]

I run at like 37 fps consistently

[fair flint]

Oh my gosh the real blonde blazer

[fluid bane]

Like safety settings to let users set limits on the kinds of avatars they want to allow rendering? That would be cool I think

[fleet vessel]

is an rtx 3050 bad for vrc?

[fluid bane]

Yes

[sullen stirrup]

honestly even a 3080 isn't great, but my cpu isn't great either

[fleet vessel]

…
ok do you think it’s my rtx 3050 that’s making me run at 37 fps or my quest 1

[fluid bane]

Like I said: Valve isn't some magical company that can just pull miracles out their ass. A Snapdragon 8 gen3 is a Snapdragon 8 gen3 whether it's in a flagship phone or a vr headset, there's no mystery here

[sullen stirrup]

quest 1 has lower resolution so it helps performance obviously

[fair flint]

3000 robux

[fleet vessel]

mom can you buy me a new headset

[fair flint]

Yes son

Which one do you wamnt

[dense pike]

sounds like avatar and world issue

[fleet vessel]

another quest 1

[ocean prism]

Hi

[fair flint]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/850784215774789655/1429781409270206574/564771172_1844268796179445_8796524368508496896_n.gif

[fleet vessel]

wanna know what’s funny

[fair flint]

Yes son

[stray steppe]

Zana as i said i know what the headset can do and its able to play vrchat on it, the problem is as i said heavy avatar or worlds. Like cmon get some knowledge abt it before u keep yapping abt it thats it not possible

[umbral fiber]

hi guys how do i join an invite only vr chat daycare

[fleet vessel]

I do have 2 quest 1s

one is newer that I actually did get

[sullen stirrup]

almost like the android version "solves" the issue of not loading heavy avatars/worlds!

[fair flint]

Oh my gosh.

I'm taking away both

[fleet vessel]

my quest 1 that I got in 2019 started to get worse

so I bought another for like 20 bucks or smth

[steel granite]

folk 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[stray steppe]

It does but there are also ways to solve these things on the pc version, but yea thats on vrchat if they do that

[fair flint]

Hey get this, get invited

[umbral fiber]

Duh and how

[runic forge]

ask them idfk

[sullen stirrup]

by asking someone in for an invite

[fair flint]

Girl I don't know have friends

[sullen stirrup]

what are those?

[runic forge]

why do u want into a vrchat daycare anyway LMFAO

[umbral fiber]

Girl mic up if u need this fade

[fair flint]

I'm sayin

[fair flint]

Oh shiii 😭😭😭nvm

[sullen stirrup]

7 year old brainrot child

[fleet vessel]

do you have friends ?

[fair flint]

Don't cook me

[fleet vessel]

no friends

[umbral fiber]

Snowkit do u need that u can mic up with me right now if u do

[runic forge]

??

[fair flint]

I can count my friendsn

[ocean prism]

How was yalls day

[fleet vessel]

name 3

[fair flint]

Dude I'm crine what is this

[runic forge]

we’re just asking why u want in a vrchat daycare gng

[ocean prism]

Wdym

[unborn torrent]

meow

[fair flint]

Nothin bro

[runic forge]

hi mich

[fair flint]

You chill

[ocean prism]

You got any honey buns by chance?

[runic forge]

[unborn torrent]

grimmmmmmmmmmm

[fair flint]

Are you homeless?

[ocean prism]

No

[fleet vessel]

I was proven right
gobby can’t name 3

[sullen stirrup]

I had to eat dinner with my 6, almost 7 year old relative and they just were on their tablet the entire time, mumbling brainrot the entire time. He didn't look away from that tablet the entire 3 hours I was there

[fair flint]

Then no

[ocean prism]

I just love food!

[ocean prism]

Aw

[umbral fiber]

Girl and u were one of them 😭

[fair flint]

Uhm....klurcklle