Ghost as a Playable Class

[hollow ibex]

Now, I know what you're thinking,
"How would you balance this?"
Well, here goes it!

So the main gimmick of the character would be, well, being a ghost- just being intangible

But how would you get things done? If you're intangible you can't really interact with things like chests, buttons, etc. so...what gives?
(Tldr - see 2nd comment)
+-------------------+

SPECIAL ABILITY TIME.

Special Ability - Place Tombstone (16 points)

By placing down your tombstone, you essentially become a semi-physical being (still affected by ghost gibbers definitely, and only being allowed to phase through less dense things like glass) allowing you to interact with things once more! But at a cost. The tombstone comes with a set radius that you're stuck inside, and leaving it hinders you, making your sluggish speed even worse and deals 5 damage to you for every 3 seconds outside. You don't take any damage from being hit while manifested from your tombstone BUT, you're still affected by knockback and can be knocked out of your tombstone radius, which spells out trouble. If your tombstone is broken, you will take 30 damage, you can't place down your tombstone for 60 seconds, and you gain the "Feelin' Unlucky" status effect for 60 seconds. You can cancel this ability at will.

+--------------+

Stats - same as the ghost, duh 🙄

E - 1

Sp - 1

St - 3

F - 1

+--------------+

Traits - None 😋 ghost has no traits

+-------------+

BIG QUEST - Unreal Estate Agent

Spawns in with an Empty Lantern (kinda like how the Scientist and Shapeshifter spawn in with their respective items) and must house ghosts in housing that meet their requirements (whether it be a Hideout, an Upper-Crusty house, etc.), the Empty Lantern is pretty much just a ghost catcher to make for transporting ghosts to their new (either freshly built or pre-made) homes! For each ghost satisfied, you'll gain their favor in the Vote Against the President. (Since SoR2 is open world, this may take a bit)

Extra Info - When hostiles see you, they will follow you, and when you place your tombstone somewhere (if still following you) they will attack you AND your tombstone, making it something like a Protect the Point kinda deal (remember, your tombstone being destroyed has those negative side effects I mentioned before, plan ahead 😋)

Trespassing does cause hostility, and if a hostile person has a Ghost Gibber (coughscientistcough) they will most definitely use it on you

You could use your Empty Lantern as a makeshift Boo-Urn to summon more ghostly "friends" to accompany you when trespassing, the more ghosts summoned, the more likely that the residents will be scared out! Just don't expect ghosts to appreciate it, and will become annoyed. Do it again and they become hostile. (I mean, you are kidnapping them-)

When you place the tombstone, you can't remove it for 7 seconds just so you don't cancel the radius immediately after being hit once and abuse not taking damage

Placing the Tombstone does cause noise (probably in a 6x6, 7x7, or 8x8 radius) just so you can't get away with placing it anywhere and sneaking up on people or stealing their things and getting away with it all the time

Radius of the Tombstone is 8x8 (12x12 with a radius upgrade, 16x16 with +upgrade) and can only be cancelled within 5x5 of the radius (9x9 with a radius upgrade, 13x13 with a +upgrade)

TLDR - You are dead, not big surprise. No touching things when dead, so set your point (tombstone) to become undead. Protect and stay near point (tombstone) to live, give other ghosts houses, overthrow president.
(I would like to encourage you to read the actual description so you get the whole gist of the character)

[raven glen]

what do ghosts do to heal? normal doctors? are people scared of ghosts?

[hollow ibex]

Ghost would probably eat food (nnnnnnnot my problem) and being undead they can't be healed by doctors, and no people aren't afraid of ghosts until the ghosts are in groups

[raven glen]

why wouldn't the NPC's just target only the Tombstone? attacking a ghost that cant be damaged by bullets or physical weapons would just be pointless. so wouldn't it be better if they attacked the tombstone? (not to mention them having to find the tombstone if it's hidden)

[hollow ibex]

Knocking the ghost out of the radius of the tombstone is like having Withdrawal with the investment banker

[raven glen]

if we're able to build our own structures, im curious how you could break this. and if you could even break it like that.

[hollow ibex]

Except you take 5 damage every 3 seconds and become as slow as a snail

[hollow ibex]

I don't think you can build in cities, but you can use certain areas as cover for your tombstone

[raven glen]

but the NPC's from at least the first game would most likely not know that. even from the 2nd game I somewhat doubt they'll have a tracking system to find the tombstone.

[hollow ibex]

That's only if they can see it

[raven glen]

see what

[hollow ibex]

The tombstone, and usually you won't be able to go in buildings and attack without placing it

When you become semi-physical you can only walk through glass walls anyways

I thought these things out

[raven glen]

do status effects hurt you

in either form

you dont have a body

[hollow ibex]

That I did not think out, but in physical form yes, otherwise no

[raven glen]

semi-physical

[hollow ibex]

My bad

[raven glen]

so what happens if my tombstone breaks while im regenerating health?

[raven glen]

np

[hollow ibex]

You still lose 30 health

[raven glen]

yes but what happens to the status

effect

[hollow ibex]

And gain the unluckiness

[raven glen]

i just chose that as an example. what if my tombstone breaks, i lose 30 health and gain unluckiness, but i had just taken a syringe of confusion?

i like the idea a lot

[hollow ibex]

I think it's fair to keep the status effect, not like you can be hit after anyways

[raven glen]

im just gonna try to figure out all the ways it wouldnt work.

[raven glen]

fair

[hollow ibex]

Fair, I like the constructive criticism

[raven glen]

also btw you may want to put the TLDR at the start of the actual post

right at the start of the description

[hollow ibex]

Welp, too late

[raven glen]

nope

just edit it

like any other message

[hollow ibex]

Eh, sure

[raven glen]

not many people who dont want to read will scroll down to read more. it's counterproductive.

[hollow ibex]

Womp womp, it isn't my fault people are lazy

[raven glen]

nope. but you can either try to appeal to those people, or not. and some aren't lazy, just are busy. like Matt for example. i doubt he has time to read through all of the stuff to get the whole picture. then those people like the TLDR, they may read the rest. but you do you.

[hollow ibex]

I may put it at the beginning

[raven glen]

again, i like the idea a lot. im gonna think about it passively for the rest of today, and try to figure out more questions.

[hollow ibex]

Alrighty, I'll be willing to answer

[raven glen]

i like your desc. but yeah that's a good idea

[hollow ibex]

Alrighty

[raven glen]

also nice detail

💯

[hollow ibex]

Thanks!

I like putting in effort for these things

[raven glen]

not what i meant. i meant copying the whole thing:
TLDR - You are dead, not big surprise. No touching things when dead, so set your point (tombstone) to become undead. Protect and stay near point (tombstone) to live, give other ghosts houses, overthrow president.
(I would like to encourage you to read the actual description so you get the whole gist of the character)

**the lazy people or people without a lot of time will most likely still not scroll down to see the 2nd comment. but it's not my post, and after all it probably only takes a mod or Matt to see the idea and put it on a to-do list. **

im also not trying to overly correct you. im just a straightforward person.

and if it makes you feel better, no ideas of how else to break your idea. it is well thought out.

[hollow ibex]

Fair, I like that you're trying to help but I'm still gonna keep it at the bottom (plus the character count doesn't really allow me to put it at the top anyways)

[hollow ibex]

And thanks!

[raven glen]

👍

[tropic marsh]

wow thats a lot

I feel like there should be more ways to take damage

[hollow ibex]

I think 5 damage per 3 seconds and extreme slowness out of the radius is pretty damaging + the 30 damage take for a broken tomb (you start with 80 health btw)

If you're knocked out of the radius you're gonna struggle to get back in, especially in cases where the npc forces you out and keeps you out while another NPC destroys the tomb

Plus the unluckiness and the 60 second ability cooldown when it's destroyed

[raven glen]

• how do the ghosts work if you use a friend phone?
• can you hire other ghosts near graveyards?
• if a ghost dies, i assume no body is made, so butler bots dont have to clean anything.

• i assume that thieves cannot steal from your pockets.

[tropic marsh]

How heal

[hollow ibex]

@raven glen
• You just summon a posse of ghosts really, they'll be tied to your gravestone so they won't be overpowered
• Probably not just for the sake of game balance, it's not fair if only the ghost can do it
• They'd be guaranteed to explode into a pile of blue gibs like they did in the first game
• I think it'd be funny if they could, but to be fair they'll only be able to do it when you're semi-physical

[hollow ibex]

Food and food only, being undead you can't really be healed by a doctor

Realism isn't really gonna be necessary, you are a ghost after all

[lapis dawn]

I think this is a pretty good idea, except the point ( I believe I saw in the crawl through this thread 🙂 ) where you can unsummon you tombstone at any time. I think that should only be possible with contact with the tombstone. If not, as soon as you are knocked out of it, you can just de-spawn it. Being able to de-spawn it at any time means you'd only take 5 damage if you were knocked out (why try and move back in.
I also think that when you don't have the tombstone out, your visibility drops to a short range. If not, you'd never be able to get to the housing you needed without being mobbed.
Not sure I understand about calling in friends, and them getting annoyed if you keep doing it. I would think that it might be better if you get 'followers' you can spawn each time you make a home for a ghost. They can then be called on (with a cool down period). Just my 2 cents. Still I like this idea, including the big quest.

[frank agate]

Um, wdym ghost has no traits?

You would need a trait for tangibility

[hollow ibex]

Nope, that comes with the tombstone, it's already kinda overpowered as is so traits would be a bit much, y'know? Plus it feels fair that the tombstone is what determines your tangibility

[hollow ibex]

Fair, should make it so you can only unsummon it while within the radius, and you could either fight whoever is mobbing you or maybe just build a house instead of stealing one

[frank agate]

True

I was just thinking about how they would incorporate that without traits

But status effects could work

[hollow ibex]

Alrighty

There is the Ghost status effect from the first game in multiplayer, so we could spawn with that

Placing the tombstone would remove that status effect

[frank agate]

I forgor about that

[hollow ibex]

Ye

[lapis dawn]

So I would take it that to do anything (pick up, interact) you would need to be within the radius of your tombstone. Maybe upgrade trait extends the range. I think that would put a good limitation to your tombstone. Maybe also require it to be on the ground, maybe on dirt? This would prevent you from drifting into a locked room and putting down your tombstone so no one could get to it.

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that's fair, good idea! And about the dirt thing I dunno, the ghosts in uptown can spawn on the weird ground tile from what I remember

[hollow ibex]

And I don't think you can lock doors that aren't yours in buildings like hideouts, bars, etc. so I don't think we'll need that + at least for the first game usually, when you open a door from the inside it stays unlocked

[lapis dawn]

I'm more talking about ghosting through a window into a room that the AI cannot get into. Kind of a cheat in a way. Especially since you don't take damage breaking and going through the glass or alert people when you go through the window. I know you can get a glass Cutter in SoR1, but this is a starting power. Just making some points for game balance. I'm sure I am not the only one that exploited the hell out of SoR1, like with the tranq gun. Get one, save up a tone of cash then save it in one of the vending machines, die, and start with another character. Easy get for that when you build up the money. People (like me) will exploit unbalanced aspects, so we should make sure the idea covers for those areeas, unless they are part of what the character can do.

[hollow ibex]

True, but then again who knows about the new AI? And then again they do have the No Limits Mutator for a reason so it may be fair, but taking what you said into consideration I'd like to say that people like Shopkeepers or Bartenders will politely tell you that you can't place your tombstone in their respective buildings due to cluttering up the store and making it harder to move around certain areas

[hollow ibex]

That fair?

[lapis dawn]

Still great idea, imho, or I would not be spending the time to read through all of this, or post. So thumbs up!

[hollow ibex]

Thanks!!

[hollow ibex]

Wait- you never really told me if what I said was fair-

[lapis dawn]

oh, sorry, I misunderstood. It more depends on the world and what you can do, or the AI can do. What you say can be fair... I thought that earlier you said they would not like you in their 'building'. And that is if they see you. The whole ghost thing about what you can do as a ghost and what you can do as 'tangible' need to be clearly defined. I would think that as a ghost you would pass through 'less solid objects' such as windows, maybe unsecured (wood/breakable) doors, but you cannot interact with anything else. You are also harder to see.
You put down your tombstone, and now you are tangible. You can operate doors, can be seen regularly, can pick up things and store them in your inventory, can be knocked back (extra knockback) but take no damage. You can no longer pass through windows/doors without breaking them. this is all the same in or out of the radius of the tombstone. Once you are out of the radius, you move slower, and you suffer x damage over x seconds. If the tombstone is broken (any AI seeing a Tombstone outside of a grave yard will attack it) you suffer 30 damage. To remove the tombstone yourself, you need to attack it yourself. One hit and it disappears and you become a ghost again.

I might also do away with eating food to heal. Maybe you heal very slowly over time while in ghost form. Would slow progress alot, but I think that is how it would start out. As you level up the ghost powers, other factors can improve:
tombstone radius
speed outside radius
fear level - they more often will run from you then try to attack
life regen as a ghost

[hollow ibex]

A lot of this I'm unsure of, mainly because it incorporates different traits (the extra knockback being "skinny nerdlinger", the harder to see being "blends in nicely", and the passive healing basically being "modern warfarer"), and ruins the general premise of "Ghost"

I think it's fair that if you don't have your tombstone placed you can walk through anything, but having it placed limits you to walking through windows and windows only, maybe we could make a limit on where you place the tombstone, maybe only placeable in 4x4 spaces? And it's just kinda odd if every NPC will attack the tombstone on sight- what's the purpose of that? And I did say you can cancel the ability yourself while within the radius, kinda like how you can cancel the shapeshifter and alien's abilities

[lapis dawn]

fair. The attacking the tombstone on sight was more like "Hey, why is there a tombstone in my store?". Much like if you suddenly seen some symbol of death that just appears randomly where one should not be. So you place it outside, on the dirt. All good. but in the middle of a bar, or in the bathroom? Seems a bit out of place and a bad omen.

[hollow ibex]

I get that, but I'd see it more as just a "Hey, your item is cluttering up my space and is kinda tacky, get rid of it please?" Type of deal

[hollow ibex]

Plus, if you placed it outside and every NPC attacked, it you'd definitely be losing 30 health regardless of what you do

[lapis dawn]

true. But there would have to be a reason to attack it. Maybe once you are seen, the AI would target any tombstones? Maybe, outside is the safe place to put it, but that would limit how far inside you could go? The other thing to think about would be the dungeons in this game. Just trying to see ways to make this work.

[hollow ibex]

The only reason is if you provoked them some way, and it could limit you, but there could be some buildings that accept it because they know it's harder for you to move around

A small bar wouldn't allow it but one of the malls in the game would more that likely allow it

[hollow ibex]

Dungeons probably have natural floors made of dirt or something else, so I think it's fair to be able to place it inside, plus it wouldn't really be cluttering it up per se if it were never owned, and dungeons are kinda just big caves so it would be fair to be allowed to place it inside

@raven glen Reconsidering some things with ghosts and being hired after reading the wiki, like the Cannibal, even though they don't have a trait stating it, Ghosts are naturally aligned with each other

So maybe keeping the annoyance with being kidnapped

I still don't think you'll be allowed to hire them still like you can't hire other cannibals as a cannibal

[raven glen]

I agree.

[raven glen]

105 comments. may be the most in 1 post. congrats.

[frank agate]

This the third biggest I have seen

In one on a dif server it has like 200+ comments, but it mainly just establishing stuff

[lapis dawn]

As a suggestion, like what @raven glen stated, might be a good idea to revise the OP with the details. A long post shows a lot of activity, but also is a lot to read through too. The volume might get attention, but a good starting summary may make it easy to see that this is a somewhat fleshed out idea.

[hollow ibex]

I'd really appreciate this

Work out all the kinks and other things to fully flush this character out

I'd have to figure out how to summarize it, and it may take a while, but it'd be worth it

[tropic marsh]

food

hm

ig

[hollow ibex]

Hey, you can become semi-physical can't you? Who says you don't get your organs back? Plus you have gibs still

[tropic marsh]

Seems kinda op in terms of not dying (technically not though, because they're already dead).

[hollow ibex]

No, not really, you have to become semi-physical to even be able to grab the food itself

[tropic marsh]

and when can you unplace tombstones again

[hollow ibex]

Only when you're inside the radius

[tropic marsh]

huh

alr

[hollow ibex]

Guessing you didn't really read the thing?

[tropic marsh]

So couldnt you just float all the way through a building

[hollow ibex]

You can, but you'd have to place your tombstone if you wanted to interact with stuff

[tropic marsh]

but you can unplace it anytime so its not too hard

[hollow ibex]

No, only when you're in the radius

[tropic marsh]

But couldnt you essentially steal items from every place possible through this

Like you float into a hideout, find the chest, place down, grab stuff in chest, unplace, float away

[hollow ibex]

True, so we should probably make it so that placing your tombstone makes noise as to alert anyone nearby

[tropic marsh]

Yeah that works

But I also have another question

[hollow ibex]

Yeah?

[tropic marsh]

So if you're being pushed out the radius, can't you just quickly prevent that by unplacing it as quick as you can.

this applies to it being attacked as well

[hollow ibex]

Reflexes play a factor here, if you can react fast enough yeah, if it's being attacked I think it's fair that you can remove it if you're within the radius

Maybe we should add a cooldown after placing it, maybe 7 seconds before you can remove it?

[tropic marsh]

yeah thats kinda what I wanted

[hollow ibex]

Alrighty, fair, I'll add that to the description

[tropic marsh]

Cuz if you're fast enough you can abuse that

[hollow ibex]

Yeah, that makes sense

[tropic marsh]

👍🏾

[hollow ibex]

I'll add it to the extra info actually, I used up the character limit for the description

[raven glen]

what about if you had to go right up directly next to it to remove it? like talking to an NPC, or pickpocketing as a thief.

[tropic marsh]

cooldown is still needed

[raven glen]

didnt say it wasnt. just another idea.

[tropic marsh]

well that could work

[hollow ibex]

Kinda fair, pretty much just making it an item in your inventory slot

[hollow ibex]

Thinking of possibly an upgrade trait that makes it so that you lose less health from having your tombstone (20 instead of 30)

[frank agate]

And maybe you drop your items when you aren’t tangible

And a trait makes it to where you don’t (including on death)

[hollow ibex]

No, that wouldn't be completely fair, but maybe make it so that you can only use certain items when tangible?

[lapis dawn]

I agree with this. especially since you take no damage from attacks. I would say you need to interact with it. So this brings up AI attacking your tombstone (TS), as in the way to deal you direct damage. What would make an AI seek out and attack a tombstone? Back to one of my other posts, it would be if the TS was seen as out of place. For example, you walk into the bathroom and see a TS there. WTF is that doing here? Bad Omen, attack the TS. But if it was outside on the dirt, well, maybe someone was buried there...

[hollow ibex]

I get it, maybe it is fair for you to only be able to cancel it when near it but that feels a bit redundant, I'll keep it though. I don't think they should break the tombstone on sight, maybe instead asking you to remove it from their building

[frank agate]

Ig that makes more sense (and when you try to use them you drop them and can’t pick them up till tangible, maybe)

[hollow ibex]

(maybe, I think it's better if there's a text box saying "I can't touch anything right now...")

[frank agate]

Ah, makes sense

Why did it correct makes to Mamés

(I fixed it before I sent it)

[hollow ibex]

Dunno- (alrighty)

[lapis dawn]

all good. Just suggestions. This is your baby.

[hollow ibex]

Suggestions taken to heart. 🤟

I think it's fair to at least have it so you have to be within a set distance of the radius to be able to cancel it, maybe the radius is 8x8 and you can only cancel it within 5x5

[lapis dawn]

And this can be defined as a skill that can increase with leveling? Even a ghost needs them chicken nuggets!

[hollow ibex]

Yeah!

I added it to the extra info below the whole description

All extra ideas to make the character more balanced are added below it

[lapis dawn]

So I would more define this as a power/skill than object based, though an object is created. I need to find time to look back up there and go over what you have touched up. 🙂

[hollow ibex]

Yeah, I mean you can place it, but say the wrestler gets the ability to put objects down, who's to say he just doesn't gain the ghost ability? It would break the character

Kinda just spitballing

[lapis dawn]

(damn, so much scrolling....) I think the ghost would start with the trait that makes people afraid of you, or possibly run away on site. I can't remember what that trait is in SoR1, but I'm sure there was one. They should also have the weakling one (extra knockback). Just suggestions, but seems to fit the design.

[hollow ibex]

(yeah-) disturbing facial expressions!! This would rework actual ghosts though- and skinny nerdlinger would be kinda odd but it makes sense

[raven glen]

Yeah like inlanoche mentioned earlier I’d take a lot of this info into your notes and make another post ig once this one expires. Or delete this one and make a new one. Either way, a new informed post would be good.

And this time potentially with a TLDR in the beginning of the actual post, so no need to find a comment. @hollow ibex

Good idea though 💯

[hollow ibex]

Reasonable, maybe in a bit

[hollow ibex]

@raven glen @lapis dawn. @frank agate
Repost done

[raven glen]

And wow. 176 comments. That’ll take a while to beat probably.

[hollow ibex]

Should probably tag this post in the repost

[raven glen]

It says repost

So the ones who would want to scroll through these ages of comments would look for it.

Or ask for it.

[hollow ibex]

Welp

[raven glen]

But I doubt that’d happen. You still could though.

It makes sense. I just don’t know if anyone would look.

[hollow ibex]

It's all up to those who will

[frank agate]

?

[hollow ibex]

Made a repost just to gain a bigger following on this post

[frank agate]

Ah ok

Forgot to thumbs up it, oopsy

Just gonna link the repost here: https://discord.com/channels/187414758536773632/1200631765870579712