Sub-Classes

[thick needle]

Creating a whole other class that would be similar to another with one or two added features is pointless and that's where this concept should do the job.
Whenever you'd check the NPC's class, it's Sub-class would listed right below the main one.

A few examples:

1. Cops

• Chief Officer/Warden -> More or less a boosted version of a regular cop, they will be able to call for backup and have better weaponry, but killing them should be very rewarding.
  (Warden is supposed to be the Chief of prison guards)

• CQC Expert -> Often increased strength or proper traits (Kneecapper etc.). Prefers direct combat to shooting.

• Sharpshooter -> Special cop with great aim; they will often act as snipers during hostage situations.

2. Zombies

• Bloater -> Upon death, its corpse explodes into a cloud of poisonous gas
• Spitter -> Can use Zombie Phlegm
• Brute -> Particularly strong. Possesses Bulky, Knockback King, Bullet Sponge + and Tank-Like traits

3. Werewolves

• Pack Leader -> Can howl for backup. As if one werewolf didn't mean business.
• Inverted Cycle -> Becomes human at night and werewolf at day.
• Tracker -> Has a great sense of smell, harder to lose during pursuits.

4. Cannibals
   Chef - Fights w/ a knife. Main ability: Can turn corpses into effectively healing meals; pretty much each cannibal feast makes cannibals look like they never entered a battle.

The examples may not pull through, but I hope they showcase this idea well.

[plucky slate]

Brute -> Slower, but way stronger
Zombie already has 1 speed.
How slow is brute version going to be>

[thick needle]

Alright that's a little fail

[rotund torrent]

Didn't think about how night cycles will affect werewolf, that sounds cool

[thick needle]

Matt said somewhere he is going to attach werewolves to the night cycles, so... guess we'll see

[plucky slate]

but killing them should be very rewarding.
I don't think that killing some important cop will truly be worth it.

[winter bluff]

Could work great with NPCs. The player could specialise upon gaining new traits when they level up however, adding to the RPG feel of the sequel

[thick needle]

Depends, having the chief out will temporarily weaken other cops and decrease their morale (making them more prone to run away from battle)

[plucky slate]

yeah but it might as well do the opposite.
You kill someone important and now literally everyone is trying to stop you.
Also it can affect not just the cops, if you kill an important person people will try to avoid you.

[thick needle]

Who knows.
I left this loose end for a reason

[neat kraken]

I think the Chief Officer/Warden should work a bit like the Warden from DRG, boosting nearby allies' strength or something as well as being able to call for backup

That way you're incentivised to kill them as it makes killing the rest easier

Also makes them more of a threat than a Cop/Supercop

[thick needle]

Never played DRG, but this is a good idea

Any thoughts on the others? Outta curiosity

[neat kraken]

Sharpshooter's a very interesting concept that would work well in the sequel

Problem is when are they going to be deployed?

I highly doubt we'll see "hostage situations" or anything like that

It might be hard to balance them as well, since they fire from a range outside of your view, if that makes sense

[thick needle]

It's hard to devise a good idea if there are so many unknown factors about the sequel

[neat kraken]

So there's questions about bullet velocity and ways to detect a Sharpshooter

[thick needle]

I can agree w/ this

[neat kraken]

Yeah we don't know a lot of details about the sequel

only some general stuff

[thick needle]

Indeed

[neat kraken]

as for the Werewolves, I love the concept of different subclasses, but I don't really know what the utility of the Inverted Cycle wolf is

Pack Leader should be given a little boost in strength as well imo, just being able to call backup doesn't feel that strong on its own

You don't become the alpha by howling really loud after all

I like the idea of the CQC expert, could be very powerful in tandem with a Sharpshooter

[thick needle]

Werewolves already are Speed:7 and Melee:8 iirc... boost'em to 10?

[neat kraken]

Yeah that sounds fair

I assume Pack Leaders are somewhat rare so having them be hard to kill makes sense

[thick needle]

Yep

[neat kraken]

Spitter and Bloater seem fair enough, but Brute is quite powerful

I know that's his purpose but he hasn't really got a slight weakness to counteract the major buffs

You can't slow him down since he's already at 1 speed so I'm not sure what a good solution is

[plucky slate]

werewolfs aren't 8 melee and 7 speed. They have 6 melee and 8 speed.

[plucky slate]

Make him thicc, simply give him bulky.

[thick needle]

Didn't think about that first, but he may that kind of character who you'd either run away form or die trying

[thick needle]

Thx for the correction

[neat kraken]

If that's so, he should be made a lot rarer to compensate

[thick needle]

Absolutely true

[plucky slate]

I committed genocide to correct it.

[thick needle]

I'm actually inclined to believe that

[neat kraken]

Normally I would suggest a weakness for every class (since a direct buff usually isn't great for balance) but I think that's missing the point of the sub-classes

Seriously what is the use of inverted cycle though?

[thick needle]

I initially thought of calling these "Specialties", but sub classes seemed more interesting

[thick needle]

Less utility, more quirkiness, you got me there

[plucky slate]

depending on how aggressive the werewolfs are the inverted cycle can be quite dangerous.
Normally werewolfs are only a danger during night, but because there are ones with inverted cycle they will be danger even during day.

[neat kraken]

inverted cycles hamper Werewolf pack performance during the night

and they're still easy to kill during the day

I mean, it's one Werewolf and some Office Drones, not a threat

the more inverted cycles you add, the worse Werewolf packs will perform at night, but their effectiveness at day isn't noticeable until you get like 3 ICs

[plucky slate]

so for you 1 werewolf isn't dangerous?

[neat kraken]

yeah

it's called a gun, or a sword

only way I see ICs being viable is have 3+ at day and a Pack Leader

Pack Leader can call for backup and is stronger

that way the pack is strong at day and night

but that's a very niche situation

[plucky slate]

werewolfs are very fast and take no knock back from guns.

[neat kraken]

so shoot them faster

a 2 in firearms skill and a shotgun/revolver/machinegun are sufficient

3+ or a RoF mod and you can use a pistol

[plucky slate]

We have no clue how much health will npcs have in SoR2.

[neat kraken]

we can assume it's a similar amount

no reason to increase or decrease

remember that the sequel is made with code from the first game, why would the health system be different?

[plucky slate]

Well yeah.

[plucky slate]

Depending on how close werewolf is when the fight begins it can be quite hard.

[neat kraken]

don't be close then?

plan ahead

if you rush into a fight not knowing where the werewolf could be and planning an escape method/some place to back up to, that's on you

werewolves never ambush you, after all

[plucky slate]

How am I supposed to plan ahead if some office drone just became a werewolf when the day has started

[neat kraken]

there will be ways to keep a track of the night cycle

approach from a distance and recon, if there's wolves and an office drone that drone is inverted

or vice versa

[plucky slate]

Why the hell do you think werewolf are gonna be in groups with inverted werewolfs?

[neat kraken]

because it's a subclass?

what, you think ICs are in their own pack?

and besides, it's the same deal

[plucky slate]

I think that werewolfs are in pack ONLY when in wolf form.

[neat kraken]

approach at night, if they're werewolves attack at day, if they're office drones attack at night

you're making it more complex than it needs to be

[plucky slate]

Werewolfs have antisocial trait, why would they be in groups in the first place

[neat kraken]

because the existence of a Pack Leader implies they're in packs

so we're going off the assumption they'll be in packs

you shouldn't even need to plan if it's just one werewolf lmao

just kill them it's not hard

[plucky slate]

Then why the hell do people plan when playing as vampire to kill a werewolf?
There is only 1, why would even need to plan?

[neat kraken]

people plan when playing vampire?

i just walk into bars with an axe

[plucky slate]

pack leader is a sub calss of werewolf, this doesn't mean that ALL werewolfs are in groups.

[neat kraken]

then they're not in groups

game is easier now

i don't see the problem

[plucky slate]

The problem is you won't be able to know if that random office drone walking around is a werewolf, and if we consider vampire's big quest ANY npc can be a werewolf.

[neat kraken]

if you're that cautious that an office drone will turn into a werewolf and you won't be able to fight them effectively or you haven't got weapons, just don't be near office drones when day is about to become night or night is about to become day

as far as we know werewolves become wws at night and revert back at day instead of when they spot a vampire or become hostile

[thick needle]

Damn, that was a hell of a discussion that took place

[royal comet]

Slum Dweller:
Resourceful
Gets better trash loot and results from using scrap crafting, NPCs pick up any type of object they find.
Adaptive
Quickly adapts to the enviorement they where put in, gaining temporal traits depended on the area.
Bum
+1 to all stats, better healing and resistence from alcohol, damage resist from smoking, loses the learning traits.

Soldier:
Zealot
Deals extra damage agaist non-"normies" and can detect them, NPC will often SEEK to kill cannibals.
Gun Nut
Better killizer effects, +1 firearms, NPC carries way too many guns.
Captain
All soldiers around them are boosted and they can command them at distance a lot quicker, free whistle included.

[civic bough]

Hacker:
Black Hat
More options when hacking. Hack things you weren't able to hack before. When hacking, you can move your camera a bit farther than where your player is, letting you hack things from farther.
White Hat
Law enforcement will get annoyed the more they see you hack, instead of instantly getting mad. With some luck and/or bribery, you can convince the owners of a building and any law officers that hacking their things and their things specifically "is okay, actually"
Conductor
You can instantaneously hack things that are close enough to you and not obstructed by walls or doorways. Gain the ability to release a shock of electricity from tech, damaging enemies for a lot of damage and potentially stunning them, but disabling the device.

these ones are way more centered around a player playing as em but they can work as NPCs too