#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 84

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

IS affecting your ability to do stuff

#

you not realizing this shows how little you know on how important mental health/optimism is to productivity

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

BS^

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@ashen lynx would

#

love to hear why you say that's bs

#

:p

sharp leaf Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@drifting stratus you need to step back and evaluate yourself; your age isn't even close to the core issue. If you present yourself to employers like you are in this channel, it's no wonder you don't get hired. People, from seeing you post a few times in a channel, are telling you things to improve and you're arguing with them. If you do that in interviews I guarantee that's why you get soured.

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

^

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@wraith iron No I mean, you're better off learning the field you want to focus on, for example software engineering, as opposed to just learning how to do things in UE4. The former applies in UE4, but UE4 tool knowledge does not apply to software engineering, if that makes sense.

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@mystic hull he wants to do game development apparently

#

but he wants the title of "software engineer" idk what to tell the guy lol

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

love to hear why you say that's bs Observed equal amount of depressed pessimists doing good job and happy positivists slacking. No pattern stands out.

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

@ashen lynx just cause they CAN

#

doesn't mean that those pessimists

#

who are negative, hard on themselves or overall depressed/negative all the time

#

that affects their world view and ofc they're competent and get the stuff done

#

but does that mean they wouldn't be working at a 100% of their capacity if they had a positive outlook?

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 1:58 PM

#

^yeah although most people function well for a while, long term it's probably not great

sharp leaf Sep 23, 2020, 1:59 PM

#

Reminder that you also don't have to be fake positive & kid yourself about your skills or prospects; there's a difference between being a realist and a pessimist.

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:59 PM

#

Also optimists don't make them good at being responsible

#

^

#

what he said

#

a realist can still be a pessimist in a way but be a lot more objective about it

#

I'm an optimistic realist

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

@mystic hull got it. I'll try to explain what I have in mind. Since I'm an historical enthusiast, I would like to recreate portions of real locations in a 3d environment, based upon historical maps and documents. This will allow people to look at a place and see how it was back in ancient (or perhaps medieval) times. Therefore I think I need to focus on learning environmental design, right?

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

yeah, environment art

#

you'll need some blueprint scripting knowledge as well. Though start small where you can, overwhelming yourself is the first step to giving up 😛

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

Any suggestions? 😅

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

Same thing you want to do is fine, just start with smaller pieces as opposed to a full set

#

A small building, instead of a city, for example

#

Though really I'm on the engineering side, can't speak much for art.
Give it some time and someone will hop in and help out

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 2:29 PM

#

Thanks!

#

With Kingdom come deliverance they did a good job

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:30 PM

#

@drifting stratus you need to step back and evaluate yourself; your age isn't even close to the core issue. If you present yourself to employers like you are in this channel, it's no wonder you don't get hired. People, from seeing you post a few times in a channel, are telling you things to improve and you're arguing with them. If you do that in interviews I guarantee that's why you get soured.
@sharp leaf Discord conversations don't relate or directly confer anything with how I present when on interviews lol

#

Why would a discord conversation carry over tho

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

Your exact statement is why, it's not about the conversation

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

@drifting stratus Discord conversations don't relate or directly confer anything with how I present when on interviews lol Don't you think there is an issue in that?

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

but rather the need to argue things over, regardless of place.
Interviewers are smart, they'll be able to spot these small things

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

@drifting stratus Discord conversations don't relate or directly confer anything with how I present when on interviews lol Don't you think there is an issue in that?
@ashen lynx Maybe? I like to share my true feelings when anon

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

share your true feeling while not being anon too. It will make life for you and anyone around you easier.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

?

#

i think it's very bizarre

#

what is wrong with anything i've said

#

lol

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

I used to think that way too.

sharp leaf Sep 23, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

What's bizarre is you continually ignoring what everybody is saying.

#

We're trying to help you.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

i dont understand

#

what ur saying

#

lol

#

im not ignoring

#

i just dont understand

#

lol

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

You're trying to prove your opinion, as opposed to just expressing it, or listening to what other people have to say - I think that somewhat sums it up

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

what is my opinion that u disagree with tho

#

i dont know what's disagreeable

shadow kelp Sep 23, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

if you're not happy with your current job and want a game dev coding job, then do it.

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

It's nothing specific, I understand the feeling that life is shitty etc, we're trying to tell you it doesn't have to be, but all we can do is tell.

shadow kelp Sep 23, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

the vast majority of employers will give you useful feedback even if you don't get a job out of it

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

I'll just say, there are always doors open if you choose to see them

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

well

#

i mean ive applied many times

#

to many game studios

#

i even was supposed to have an interview with ArenaNet

#

but they just ghosted me and i dont know why

#

they said to send them time availability but never got back with me

#

we never even spoke

#

lol

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

Many are probably just busy.
Chin up im sure one will come through

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

My friend, I had once written hundreds of cover letters, the times I was talked back to can be counted on my fingers.
It's not an easy industry to break into, especially so if you have the slightest bit of atittude, or lack experience to show

#

And it's quite competetive, I guarantee there are people younger & better than myself all over the place.
The gist of it, is if you really want to do something, you'll find a way to

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

im pretty comfy to get along with

#

lol

sharp leaf Sep 23, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

Clearly.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

.>

#

meanie

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

haha nice

#

do any of your network of contacts have any links to anyone in the industry perhaps?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

idk

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

maybe have a plan in place just incase... and keep in touch with people who know what a great job you have done - maybe one of them will have a friend-of-a-friend in the industry who can put your name forward

#

don't pressure yourself to get results from them straight away, but over time as your business networking grows it will likely happen organically... so in the meantime just stay fit like you are planning on - i think that is a great move 🙂

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

what i do want is to be allowed to work on a game

#

professionally

#

lol

#

notice "be allowed to"

#

lol

#

im not allowed

#

:^)

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

Have you applied to indies?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

I don't see any of it as a rejection, i see it as "you're not allowed"

#

@mystic hull a few, had some interviews, but then nothing

#

they even say things like

#

"We will hear from u next week"

#

but then nothing lol

#

its weird

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

It's not weird, it's just imagine being sent a few hundred applications

#

and moving forward to the interview phase with maybe a dozen

#

a lot more if it's a AAA

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

I had an interview just back on the 11th with a really cool indie studio out in colorado

#

i would love to move there tbh

#

but then its been almost two weeks, and ive followed up on the 15th, but nothing

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

Also, do you actually have game dev experience? You mentioned you already work in a different industry

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

i thought the interview went well, the lady said "wow this shows proof that u published two games...etc"

#

and the lady seemed impressed

#

but then nothing l ol

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

You're expecting too much 😛

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

but yes @mystic hull im also being interviewed by Unity lol

#

i have like 3 years experience doing unity dev, and two in unreal

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

Though if you've reached that point I think it's safe to say you're not inexperienced, I'd guess it's the atittude or self-presentation

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

Unity even contacted me, they reached out but now they are saying that the management has changed and they have to wait for approval for stuff

#

lol

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

correct

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

FeelsBadMan

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

do you read gamasutra?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

working for unity would be awesome

#

lol

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

it has been covered for many years - it did not come as a surprise to anybody that they are going public and having massive restructures... been in the pipeline for years

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

i do, but not religiously and it's not really something i do on a regular basis @static urchin

#

but supposedly the lady over at Unity said she really wants to speak with me (the hiring manager for this position)

#

but like 😭

#

waiting

#

fml

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

Patience is a virtue.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

working for unity = dream job tbh

#

any game dev company

#

or engine company

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

tricky one - I have heard both angles (be patient, be pushy)

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

epic, unity, etc

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

I guess there's a balance to be struck 😛

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

yeah

#

I envy those clever enough to get it right

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

You're aiming for top-dogs, decil, gotta know who you're dealing with & who you're competing against

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

^^
this

#

im sure if you got a contact there though, then it sounds like you are on the right path though 🙂

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:51 PM

#

well i mean

#

one of their recruiters reached out to me, we talked on the phone for like 30 mins

#

and they said "we searched through like 50 resumes and picked yours because of A,B,C"

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

have you looked into their recruitment process yet?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

and then they said that the hiring manager wants to speak with u but we have to wait for approval and stuff

#

i havent

#

i looked at

#

glassdoor

#

and thats about it

#

unity has good reviews lol

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

sweet.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

if u compare it to like

#

CryTek

#

i interviewed with CryTek, then i read glassdoor and i was like yikes

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

CryTek is big yikes

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

Again, we already knew years ago that they have been having a tough time though.
Have you heard of LumberYard?

Anyways, unfortunately a company going through such a massive change as Unity - it might be had to make apples-apples comparisons soon though

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

If you are in a position where you would deny employment from CryTek just because of bunch glassdoor reviews, you most certainly do not need advice from this channel.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

lol i never had an official offer from them @ashen lynx

#

but i did have interviews

#

i just didnt follow through with it

#

because i think glassdoor reviews are important

#

if people are literally saying that the company doesnt pay u

#

then thats just bad

#

really bad

ashen lynx Sep 23, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

Maybe they have other forms of motivation? 🤔

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

idk

#

Is Sion Sheevok on this server

#

he used to be here, he worked on fortnite

#

i dont see him

hybrid phoenix Sep 23, 2020, 3:50 PM

#

He may well have left, or changed to an inconspicuous alt or something

digital gate Sep 23, 2020, 4:10 PM

#

If I have the option between two studios and one has a bit of a reputation for not paying... I'm probably not going with that one...

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

^

#

all of that

#

if you make smart investments and know how to make some half-decent money

#

you can make a pretty solid start-up

#

if you network properly

#

and actually have unique creative ideas to pitch to key players on your team that you're trying to get via networking

#

#1 most underdeveloped skill of developers and people wanting to get into the industry is networking

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

lactose is causing me stummy problems

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 9:53 PM

#

Even if you network well, geographical restrains are a very real issue in this industry. A lot of people going for a small amount of spots

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:05 PM

#

@normal slate geographical restaints wouldn't be as hard especially if you made an online persona and pumped out decent enough work steadily, you can usually save up to fix your geographical issue. However I know everyones not as lucky as I am to be living in california lol

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

@granite prism They are for those not so lucky to be in Cali. I don't like perosnas, but I like to think I pump out nice content. For example, I've freelanced for several large studios in the past and have been the guest speaker at an IGDA conference. Not saying I deserve more, but there is certainly a more challenging approach when one doesn't live on or near the west coast

📎 ScreenShot00015.png

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

that something you made?

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

It's a challenge but nothing to do but work around it

#

Yes, it's a scene from a personal project

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

I think that's not bad but would you not admit that it's bland

#

even for a desert/canyon?

#

there's a LOT you can do

#

with deserts and canyons that you're not executing

#

3 things you could add right now that'd bump it up a lot more:

#

Joshua-Tree's or Cacti~Could even have a bobcat perched on the cacti as they're known to do that~

#

Giant stone pillars

#

with different looks/holes and shapes, etc.

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

📎 ScreenShot00153.png 📎 IMG_20200724_120324_424.jpg 📎 ScreenShot00139.png 📎 ScreenShot00045_1_1.png 📎 ScreenShot00048_1.png 📎 ScreenShot00037_1.png

#

I know

#

Like I said it's recent

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

really dig the sky

#

nice concept

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

Ive worked on quite a few environments and thanks

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

np

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:16 PM

#

I don't why they posted all weirdly rotated tho

#

Anyway, you definitely have a great advantage living on Cali. Although, I'm not sure I'd be able to justify how expensive it is to live there

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

trust me cost of living

#

far outweigh the opportunity

#

it's super oversaturated here

#

you're honestly better going off to FL, AZ, etc.

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

Oh I know, I've heard all the horror stories, btw is the rolling blackouts still a thing?

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

where they have other studios

#

and you have more opportunity

#

cause less talent pool

#

oh yea had one the other day

normal slate Sep 23, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

Yeah, I was thinking Texas might be more my speed. And I'm sorry to hear that, I hear it's gotten pretty, well, excuse me for the taboo, but I've heard the government is really overexerting it's authority in Cali.

#

At least lately

#

Plots of land are going pretty cheap in the Dakotas and Wyoming if you got enough savings to buy or build, might be the smart move since most people are telecommunicating these days

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

governments especially federal has been shoving it's nose in everything for waaaay too long

#

I myself am a hard on the fence libertarian

#

but there's no where with politics like that, why I plan to move to a small village internationally and get satellite internet or buy a plot of land in amsterdam lmfao

spice dagger Sep 23, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

Guys your moving offtopic here.

#

Move to #lounge if you would like to continue

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

@spice dagger my apologies was only one message however.

normal slate Sep 24, 2020, 2:32 AM

#

Same, apologies

mossy pine Sep 24, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

How much is a good hourly rate for a 3D artist providing low poly assets?

#

📎 unknown-24.png

#

Like this took less than a hour to make..

#

Would I charge like.. $20 because it took an hour? Lol it feels like I'm ripping my client off haha

#

I mean, it's not like I'm making complicated stuff like this.

#

📎 unknown-20.png

#

For this game it's low poly all the way.

nova tartan Sep 24, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

How much do you need to live your life the way you want, counting saving for retirement?
If you charge below that, mathematically it will be impossible for you to live comfortably.

digital gate Sep 25, 2020, 12:49 AM

#

You're not charging for 300 or so verts. You're charging for your time and skill - I'm a programmer and I could make a model that looks kind of like a shovel in 30 minutes with a controller that might have a similar vert count.

Can I achieve consistency across 10 other models? How quickly can I flip a revision back? Will I have a topology that unwraps smoothly? Does my creation have some character to it??

Maybe you aren't hitting those standards yourself, which would present to me as an opportunity to improve. You may not always be able to get clients to go for a higher rate, but you need to set your starting point with plenty of cushion.

mossy pine Sep 25, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

Solid answer, I suppose I'll just have to feel it out. I make more than enough money to afford my home as it is with my day job, so I would have to get a steady $35k a year for my art before I could jump ship.

Here's hoping, thanks for the input, the client is happy with the model, so I guess that the important thing. Basically told me that it was exactly what he wanted.

Tipped me an additional $20 for the quick turn around time and adjustments I made to meet his needs. 🤘

granite prism Sep 25, 2020, 4:32 AM

#

@mossy pine where do you find work?

#

I've just gotten into doing 3D art myself so would love any help from someone ahead of me 🙂

mossy pine Sep 25, 2020, 4:33 AM

#

i do a lot of gamejams. gotta build bridges

granite prism Sep 25, 2020, 4:36 AM

#

oh man didn't think about it like that

#

totally makes sense tbh

#

never done a game jam but hope to do one soon 🙂

mossy pine Sep 25, 2020, 4:37 AM

#

i'm pretty hooked on em

cyan night Sep 27, 2020, 7:43 AM

#

I heard the phrase"start small" alot but when i made my first game i haven't heard of it , so i kinda went big a made a little complex game , and im facing loads of problems that i dont even know yet and it looks bad

So i should i stop with that project and "start small"

craggy nacelle Sep 27, 2020, 8:41 AM

#

It really depends on what your goal is and how motivated you are to work on your current project I think

#

You probably could solve the problems in your current project, but it also could take a long time to do so. So it's really just a question of whether you want to do that or not

#

"Start small" is mostly said because bigger things are harder and more complicated, and it's easier to lose motivation and never finish when you're stuck on something like that

hybrid phoenix Sep 27, 2020, 10:47 AM

#

I've personally only ever worked on large projects, and it's worked really well for me. Many people do quite a lot better with smaller projects where they can actually achieve their goals, though

lilac walrus Sep 27, 2020, 11:57 AM

#

a big part of the learning process is learning to manage complexity; if a project is too large it can often be totally overwhelming if you lack the necessary knowledge and experience to adequately break it down into something manageable where you can make demonstrable progress

craggy nacelle Sep 27, 2020, 12:22 PM

#

tbh I always tried to do complex shit I had no idea how to do lol

#

I abandoned the projects pretty often but I usually learned at least something out of it :D

tawny tusk Sep 27, 2020, 7:12 PM

#

hi

mossy pine Sep 28, 2020, 2:24 AM

#

Hi

ripe zinc Sep 28, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

@cyan night If you're enjoying the project / game you're working on, but have realized there are a bunch of problems that you're facing, then stop and start prioritizing them. Tackle one issue at a time and don't add anything new. Quantify your work and then break it into manageable pieces. No problem is literally new. Someone somewhere in the world has encountered it before and moved forward to overcome the issue.

#

If you feel that the time investment to do that is too great / not worth it, then yeah, document what the problems that came up, scrap the project, and start a smaller one.

shadow kelp Sep 28, 2020, 7:56 AM

#

People are different too. Some people are quite happy getting their head down, chipping away slowly at a big task. Some work better tackling lots of smaller problems. Whatever works for you.

thin holly Sep 28, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

Looking to work under someone to learn more about unreal like shadow them work with them and all that good stuff

celest lynx Sep 29, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

i do a lot of gamejams. gotta build bridges
@mossy pine whats a game jam lol

mossy pine Sep 29, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

Like.. for real? Or am I being set up for some kind of new "up dawg" thing?

celest lynx Sep 29, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

haha im english and had pc like 2 weeks sorry

#

whats up dawg thing haha

unkempt bay Sep 30, 2020, 2:43 AM

#

Hey, so I’m 13, almost 14, and I am a dev in UE4. I’ve been working on a game for 2-3 weeks now. It’s a Battle Royale FPS. I’ve done multiple games before, learning with other. This I’m doing by myself, self teaching new stuff. It’s a realistic mode. Do you think this could help me later on when I can get a job as a coder

mystic hull Sep 30, 2020, 2:44 AM

#

Anything that you're able to show off will help you later on

#

My best advice if you're aiming to become a programmer, is to read a lot, by the time you're of legal age to be hired, you'll have amassed a fair bit of knowledge that'd put you ahead of the competition

#

Work on your math & physics at school, take what programming or CS related classes that you can

unkempt bay Sep 30, 2020, 2:46 AM

#

I’m about to go to high school

#

Next year

#

And I might go to a tech school if u know what that is

#

So I’m hoping I can study computer programming

craggy nacelle Sep 30, 2020, 3:03 AM

#

If you have projects to showcase that will definitely be helpful

#

Pretty sure that's primarily how I always got hired when I didn't yet have lots of actual work experience :D

#

I just had a lot of different things I had built as a hobby

carmine spoke Sep 30, 2020, 8:54 AM

#

Hmmmm

#

But how

#

Like showing your work or showing your games after you publish them??

#

@unkempt bay well you have to study computer science to get started

leaden fjord Sep 30, 2020, 10:15 AM

#

If a dev turned up for a job and said they had been working on indie games since they were 13 it would most definitely go in their favour

#

If programming is something you enjoy I would also suggest following that path as far as education is concerned, most 'game dev' courses teach more broadly on all topics but lack the depth that I personally believe will get you further

ashen lynx Sep 30, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

13-14 is a good age to specialize. You will have a decent headstart.

leaden fjord Sep 30, 2020, 10:19 AM

#

the thing about Unreal is it lets you touch all areas and get an idea for which aspect of game dev you enjoy

flat gazelle Sep 30, 2020, 10:29 AM

#

Dont forget to be young. This industry will age you anyway. Don't rush in just because.

#

Damn that makes me sound old....

marsh stream Sep 30, 2020, 12:45 PM

#

Dont forget to be young. This industry will age you anyway. Don't rush in just because.
@flat gazelle Definitely nice to hear. Sometimes I feel like if I dont get into the industry before age 25(currently 24) then I've sorta lost. People will have started at game companies much earlier than me and thus be significantly more proficient at their work so I would have no chance. Got to remember to enjoy game dev and gain skills through my passion, instead of gain skills purely to get a job in the industry. But at the same time provide for myself. Tough stuff

flat gazelle Sep 30, 2020, 12:47 PM

#

I started at 19. I love the industry but sometimes I wish I did something else first. Work, study, party etc.

marsh stream Sep 30, 2020, 12:48 PM

#

Wow thats awesome. You ofc must have been very good at whatever u got in for. No excuses hear, between ages 18-22 I was very lazy. Wanting just to make enough to live, socialize(sport/video games),etc. Wish I had started working harder earlier

flat gazelle Sep 30, 2020, 12:50 PM

#

Nah, I got lucky.

#

I picked up a very niched area in a time where it was even more niche so I got grabbed before finishing my vocational school and relocated to a different country. That doesn't really happen any more.

marsh stream Sep 30, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

Yeah see thats the thing. I think to myself, If I enjoy 2 different disciplines.
Discipline 1: is niche. But that means fewer opportunities, but less people applying
Discipline2: not niche at all. Plenty opportunities but plenty more people applying

At the end of the day the competition is probably equal? and I should probably just go after what I likemore (which even at this stage is unkown)

wary idol Sep 30, 2020, 3:46 PM

#

I first got into programming when I was around 10-11, I'm 20 now

Played games as long as I remember so I just kinda wanted to learn what goes into making one

Damn last 10 years just flew by 😐

bleak oasis Sep 30, 2020, 3:47 PM

#

My college has a game development program but I’m not sure if I want to take it from what I’ve heard about college development courses

mystic hull Sep 30, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

Do computer science if you want to become a programmer really

#

The rest you can pick up easily

scenic moon Sep 30, 2020, 6:16 PM

#

That makes it feel like getting started at 27 is too late..

mystic hull Sep 30, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

It's really never too late in terms of age, it's usually late in terms of responsibilities

solid solar Sep 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

Yo Slim I feel the same way. Im almost 28 and it feels very discouraging. I always say you cant lose if you dont quit

mystic hull Sep 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

To that statement I would agree

solid solar Sep 30, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

Its looking like I'll need to settle for another coding job and stuff, but I won't stop developing games

#

Im gonna have less time but Im going to keep growing my portfolio as fast as I can

#

cant give up. GL

scenic moon Oct 1, 2020, 12:10 AM

#

Appreciate that, and also very true from you both. Good luck as well

mossy pine Oct 1, 2020, 1:10 AM

#

im 29, been doing 3D art for 15+ years, but only started with game dev about 2 years ago

hearty canyon Oct 1, 2020, 2:30 AM

#

similiar story here, ive done 3d for almost 20 years im 33 now, worked in film for years, always made / did games as a hobby but didnt start professionally (aka paid by someone else) until this year

raven ginkgo Oct 1, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

Do you need a computer science degree to become a programmer in a game company

craggy nacelle Oct 1, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

Usually you need something to show that you can do stuff. That's often a degree or work or practical experience

raven ginkgo Oct 1, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

So like portfolio?

hearty canyon Oct 1, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

yes thats what he said

#

degrees dont mean shit. the paper does nothing, but the degree means you passed a x amount of year course meaning you learnt the skills

#

so you can a) show the degree with nothing and the eomplyer will take a chance knowing you atleast have skills, or they B) (more likely) respond to in the field work you have done, proof of your ability

raven ginkgo Oct 1, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

Oh ok, thank you

fickle hatch Oct 1, 2020, 3:51 AM

#

The degree has some value when you're doing stuff like immigration - but that has been the only time it ever came up so far

#

With immigration, having a degree gives you a good positive bias. How relevant this is, depends on where you're from!

hybrid phoenix Oct 1, 2020, 11:06 AM

#

Very much in agreement with @flat gazelle, for what it's worth. Started gamedev at 13, basically absorbed all of my spare time, and became my 2xfull-time job (as indie) once I was done with school. Now at 20 I've got an awesome job in the industry, but not really had any time to just have fun 😛

trail leaf Oct 1, 2020, 11:10 AM

#

@hybrid phoenix Funny how that is right? Everyone assumes when you're in the games industry that you play games all day; but you hardly have any time to do that in reality

hybrid phoenix Oct 1, 2020, 11:21 AM

#

From the moment I've started gamedev, time actually spent playing games has sort of fallen off a cliff

#

Even now, with a 32h workweek

#

Between that and my hobby projects which I hope will one day be commercially succesful

#

Doing anything other than gamedev is very difficult

ocean root Oct 1, 2020, 11:37 AM

#

that's how it is for most people in game dev, even indies.

#

at our studio, we had a 1 hour period every day (when we weren't crunching) where we all played games together because we felt it was important for us to stay connected to the people we made games for and that was the only gaming most of us got in our day to day. Still, a lot of people didn't want to play and instead wanted to just work.

remote saffron Oct 1, 2020, 12:43 PM

#

but work is fun 😐

nova tartan Oct 1, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

Even working a non-gamedev job 40 hours a week with normal adult responsibilities doesn't leave that much time to play games

leaden fjord Oct 1, 2020, 2:15 PM

#

I got into the industry at 32, that was 12 years ago

wary idol Oct 1, 2020, 3:42 PM

#

I have a messed up sleep schedule so I still find time for playing games, usually working overnight and playing games during the day for a few hours

heavy thorn Oct 1, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

how i can make post in #looking-for-work ?

mystic hull Oct 1, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

read the pinned message there

shut token Oct 1, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

@nova tartan Especially if you are doing gamedev on the side, lol

lilac walrus Oct 2, 2020, 7:59 AM

#

...is that an advert?

static urchin Oct 2, 2020, 8:22 AM

#

I was gonna say no, ppl post articles all the time, but yes - it's definitely an Advertorial .
Vishal linked it in the Python forums also

#

oh well, grain-of-salt i guess

lilac walrus Oct 2, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

looks like the only things they ever posted here are adverts for 'StackRaft'

#

<@&213101288538374145>

granite brook Oct 2, 2020, 11:53 AM

#

Someone who joins and posts 2 ads into 2 channels would be a bot for me.
They can fight the ban they just received if they want to clear this up.

lilac walrus Oct 2, 2020, 12:30 PM

#

ta - probably not a bot, but also not exactly here to contribute anything of value to the community, it's just spam

#

irrelevant spam

mossy ember Oct 2, 2020, 1:59 PM

#

Hey guys, not sure if this question should be here but anyway. I'm an Unreal Gameplay Programmer working in a small game company in my Country and recently a familiar told me that I could get some founding for a degree if I wanted. I already have a Bachelors in Computer Science (Or at least something close to it since I got it in latin america) and was thinking in a Masters degree but want to stay within Video Game Programming. I'm not sure if I should stick to my work and gain experience, go abroad and study or pick an online master and do both. The main problem is that mostly all the programs that I found are in arts or something related. Anyone knows a good program that can recommend? Or you guys think I should stick to work experience?

ashen lynx Oct 2, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

What kind of degree? @mossy ember master's in CS would bring zero benefits to you, apart from potential spin off into higher degrees in CS, lecturing and research work. All that does not correlate with gameplay.

mossy ember Oct 2, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Yeah, thats kind of the point. I would like to stay in Gameplay programming since I like it a lot, but not sure how a degree related to that should look like.

lilac walrus Oct 2, 2020, 2:11 PM

#

if you already have a degree, and are already working, I'm not sure what the value of a Master's would be at this point

mossy ember Oct 2, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

Well, I would like to get better as a developer, not sure if experience is better.

trail leaf Oct 2, 2020, 2:38 PM

#

Get better by doing.

shut token Oct 2, 2020, 2:38 PM

#

If you want to get better - do things outside of your comfort zone, not study more in academia

trail leaf Oct 2, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

Some people with masters and or phd's I've met have been the worst, slowest programmers I've ever met

mossy ember Oct 2, 2020, 3:14 PM

#

Ok, thanks for the advice.

icy blaze Oct 2, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

Looking for a dev with experience in virtual production easy design can go into further details if needed

#

Paid gig obviously

nova tartan Oct 2, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

If you are looking to hire someone, #looking-for-talent
This channel is more for more meta questions like "what are good approaches to finding talent"

steel creek Oct 2, 2020, 5:15 PM

#

https://giphy.com/gifs/RobertEBlackmon-reading-is-fundamental-read-for-filth-QLy6KDVwHicILBFtQx

Giphy

Robert E Blackmon

glacial wadi Oct 4, 2020, 12:28 PM

#

Fortnite's party royale (where the stream events by video) works by a hls stream as a media texture on the screen right

#

and furthermore how do i make a hls stream

kindred zinc Oct 5, 2020, 12:58 AM

#

Anyone knows a good program that can recommend? Or you guys think I should stick to work experience?
@mossy ember I did an MSc in Computer Games Technology a few years after my BEng Computer Systems Engineering, and the MSc was a bit of a waste of time. You could learn more outside a university nowadays just by doing it yourself. I'd say unless you can find a Masters that is sponsored with a games dev company, like they take you on part time to also train you, don't bother with pure academia

glacial wadi Oct 5, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

https://tryitands.ee/

mossy ember Oct 5, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

Anyone knows a good program that can recommend? Or you guys think I should stick to work experience?
@mossy ember I did an MSc in Computer Games Technology a few years after my BEng Computer Systems Engineering, and the MSc was a bit of a waste of time. You could learn more outside a university nowadays just by doing it yourself. I'd say unless you can find a Masters that is sponsored with a games dev company, like they take you on part time to also train you, don't bother with pure academia
@kindred zinc thanks a lot. Yeah, I think everyone is on the same page. Thanks a lot!

plucky hatch Oct 5, 2020, 5:56 PM

#

oh im stupid wrong chat

plucky hatch Oct 6, 2020, 1:54 AM

#

@mossy ember Depends on your goal if you just want to make it into the industry have fun and code a bit I agree with that path. If you want to further into EE and Comp Sci, I think Academia is good. Remember in a job interview that piece of paper is always important. But if you can get your foot in the door and enjoy raising in the company then if it's a good route for you go for it.

drifting stratus Oct 6, 2020, 2:55 AM

#

so i just finished a coding test on saturday for a company

#

how long do u guys feel it takes to hear back?

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 4:41 AM

#

Totally depends on the company you applied for

#

On average it isn't long though, in my experience

marsh stream Oct 6, 2020, 8:40 AM

#

For indies, they seem pretty fast, around 1-2 weeks.
I've waited up to 3-5 weeks, when applying to low/entry level positions at large companies.
I've even waited 8 months before a company came back to me asking for an interview and it was a company of 20-30 people thats fairly reputable. So as @mystic hull says it depends on the company 🤷

crude depot Oct 6, 2020, 11:13 AM

#

I wonder, do some of you guys hire people to setup their jenkins or do some custom work on them?
I'm preety much responsible for jenkins on my 9-5 and i was thinking if there's any demand for people who know how to setup jenkins, make some projects, add pipeline builds and can go a little bit deeper with groovy.

lilac walrus Oct 6, 2020, 12:02 PM

#

Pipeline Engineers and Build Engineers are a thing

crude depot Oct 6, 2020, 12:08 PM

#

I didnt even know it has a name.
But i'm thinking about work for hire kind of stuff.
To just earn some extra cash and learn how to handle other projects.

lilac walrus Oct 6, 2020, 12:13 PM

#

it's rarely work for hire, it's usually a permanent, in-house position

crude depot Oct 6, 2020, 12:26 PM

#

Too bad, then it will be hard to find any gigs.
But thank you for your response.

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 12:49 PM

#

Yeah the problem with outsourcing this sort of stuff is that it's the kind of thing you really don't want to break, and if it does break it needs to be fixed right away, not whenever the person that did it has some time to get back to you, as one of their many clients

#

So I think in most cases people will either have someone internally do it, and in the case of small teams, they'll just figure out how to do it themselves so that they know what they're working with

drifting stratus Oct 6, 2020, 1:07 PM

#

@mystic hull like a week?

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

@mystic hull like a week?
@drifting stratus Maybe, maybe 2. If you're applying for a busier position, maybe 5

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:15 PM

#

Hey guys

#

How much can an indie Developer earnn? Like an approx? Just wanted to know the potential

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Notch sold Mojang for $2.5 billion to Microsoft. I think that's one of the high marks for indies so far when it comes to earning.

#

So that's the potential I guess.

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

Ohhhh The main version was made by a solo dev? I think that was a team right? And only prototype was done solo

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:20 PM

#

Still indie until they sold.

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:20 PM

#

Oh That's sooo much cool, But Normally The games make mucchhhhh less right?

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:21 PM

#

I'd say the vast majority makes less than nothing.

#

Most games fail, but cost time and licensing to get to that point.

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:22 PM

#

Yeah I think it's reasonable the vast majority of indies turn a loss, a decent amount (particularly those done by experienced devs) do okay and a tiny handful does really well

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

Alright, So if someone doesn't wna do a job in game dev industry , and start his own company, is there some nice potential?

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

From a Gamasutra blog: "Over 50% of the games on Steam have never made more than $5,000"

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

If you want a safe, stable, carefree life? Absolutely not

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KarlKontus/20200710/366187/Can_you_be_a_full_time_solo_indie_developer.php

Can you be a full time solo indie developer?

Exploring the answers to questions like 'How much can I earn as an indie solo developer?' and 'How much does a typical indie game earn in its lifetime?'

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

If you're fine with not having that? If you've got the skills, you may stand a chance

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

If you want a safe, stable, carefree life? Absolutely not
@hybrid phoenix nah I'm surely ready for the risks but atleast there should be a Brighter end and like something dope

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:24 PM

#

Think about it this way;
1- You need the technical skills to be able to create your solo game(s)
2- You'll have to put in the time and resources to teach yourself, and possibly your other partners these resources if you don't already have them
3- You'll have to be smart & creative on the design aspects of your game, there are TONS of games being churned out now by everyone and their mothers, you'll have to stand on top of the competition
4- And finally, you'll have to actually be able to show your game and reach the players

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

Basically I'm just 16 and I'm Confused , shall I make game dev as my career or not, I've made 2-3 games though

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

there should be a Brighter end and like something dope
If you're doing it for the brighter end, then you shouldn't be doing this

#

Because the brighter end is a static improbability

#

The odds of you being one of the thousands that does well are very much against you

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

Ohh yeahhh alright

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:25 PM

#

Basically, if you're not sure, I wouldn't do it

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

As long as you have raised the capital needed to sustain you the time it will take you to develop it, go for it! The odds say that you won't turn a profit and you'll end up in debt, but there's always a chance.

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

Ohh yeah alright so maybe I'll improve my skills and try for 3-4 Yrs and let's see what goes next,
What do you think abt it?

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:26 PM

#

And even then, chances are you'll fail many times until you succeed. If you're prepared, go for it

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

And even then, chances are you'll fail many times until you succeed. If you're prepared, go for it
@mystic hull yeahh I'm ready for those failures just wnna have the success ;)

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

If you're okay spending that much time and energy on something that is statistically improbable, go for it

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

Right now, making it as indie is a bit like making it as a band. The chance to hit it big is there, but if you don't it's not very likely that it will sustain you longterm.

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

See you keep saying you're fine with the failures, but like

#

It's not "you'll fail a few times and then succeed"

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

It's more akin to "You may hate your life and have to work at mcdonald's for a fair portion of your life"

hybrid phoenix Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

It's "Odds are you'll never be successful enough"

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

Ohhhh

craggy nacelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

The guy who made Ultima (his first big success) made like.. 20 games before this I think?

#

The founders of Id software made a lot of games before they made their hit games as well

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

So it's like someone can make millions from a game and someone doesn't even makes a penny????

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

Damn, I've only put out 18! Almost my time to shine!

#

Correct

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

Yes, you could make 10 games and barely make a 100$

#

It's a big gamble

#

But honestly, I do believe people who know how to make games, can at least guarantee themselves minimal losses to be able to keep going

#

but getting to that point isn't as easy as it sounds, not for an indie and especially not for a solo dev

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:29 PM

#

Hmm alright That's cool, basically I just don't wnna go for jobs , my own company would work where I'll hire people

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

A good game is a game that sells, regardless of whether it turns profit or not

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

Ohhh Awesome

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

Do you have much experience running a company?

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

And the funds to do so ^?

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

No not at all, but I really wna know! I'm 16

#

Do you have much experience running a company?
@flat gazelle where can I get it all from?

mystic hull Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

Oh wow 😛

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

Do you have much experience developing and selling games?

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

Ugh I know it all sounds weird

#

Do you have much experience developing and selling games?
@flat gazelle yeahh bro

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

Cool! Link me!

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

I didn't get what you're saying?

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

Link me to the storepage of your games so I can get a better idea of your skillevel.

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:32 PM

#

Oh Noo, it's nott that much, like I've made just 2 games till now!
I'm a kinda newbie you can say!
I made some prototype clones to practice and I'm working on my own game endless hope

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:32 PM

#

Then prepare for burgerflipping 🙂 And I mean that with the best intentions.

#

Gamedev is a nice hobby, and if you get to a high level you can take it fulltime.

#

But you need a job to get you that far 🙂

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

Alright Thanks alot Brother for your precious time , Really Appreciate , Thanks a tonn!

flat gazelle Oct 6, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

Or work at a gamestudio, where you can gain a lot of gamedev experience a lot faster.

ember rapids Oct 6, 2020, 3:34 PM

#

Or work at a gamestudio, where you can gain a lot of gamedev experience a lot faster.
@flat gazelle yeahh I'll surely opt for one

sick meteor Oct 6, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

Hey guys!

Has anyone completed a "code bootcamp" at one of the bigger academies? I have been doing indy-dev for a few years now on top of a full time job in corporate accounting (I hate my accounting job). I have built a few game projects that use c++ classes, web requests, have a proper backend systems using javascript, php, and sql tables. I have also set up dedicated servers using AWS Gamelift.

I want to get a job in software, it doesn't have to be for a gaming company. I feel like a bootcamp would fill me in on the topics and current tech stacks that game dev hasn't forced me to learn yet. I want to transition into the field working for a respectable company, and to not join a sketchy startup that can't guarantee pay.

Do you think a bootcamp would be worth the money? Could I get a job without any formal computer science education?

tacit siren Oct 6, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

You probably could, but... when you listed your achievements there its not something i normally associate with making a game. You can build the network service for a game to use or you can build a game, basically. I don't imagine there are many studios that would have a use for both (in one developer).

long pewter Oct 6, 2020, 9:26 PM

#

Is scripting blueprints a good thing for a 3d artist to learn to use to freelance as well? (Level design too)

plucky hatch Oct 6, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

No not at all and you shouldn't worry about it. Some thing like changing the time of day shouldn't be a huge task to see night time

wary idol Oct 6, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

Any extra skill you have is a huge plus

sick meteor Oct 7, 2020, 12:56 AM

#

You probably could, but... when you listed your achievements there its not something i normally associate with making a game. You can build the network service for a game to use or you can build a game, basically. I don't imagine there are many studios that would have a use for both (in one developer).
@tacit siren I listed those things out because many of the job postings for software engineers require MANY skills. Most of them list requirements that suggest they are full stack jobs with an emphasis on front end or back end. Like I said, I am looking for work in software engineering in general, not necessarily game design.

plucky hatch Oct 7, 2020, 2:08 PM

#

@sick meteor I know at least one person that graduated from General Assembly that now works as a front end dev so it was probably worth it for him 🙂

#

You can definitely get a job as a software engineer without a CS degree but be prepared to study CS topics anyway. Aiming for FAANG companies definitely means you'll need to study CS

#

Easiest way into software engineering IMO is front end web dev

hybrid phoenix Oct 7, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

(Good!) boot camps are a good starting point, but it won't be enough to get you a job. It'll teach you the necessary stuff, but your employers will generally be looking for time spent programming after that as well.
Many bootcamp participants just code very aggressively for a short while following the event, and then don't do anything to keep up, which is something you'll need to avoid - make sure to continue putting stuff out on Github (or similar) after your bootcamp

digital gate Oct 8, 2020, 4:42 AM

#

No not at all and you shouldn't worry about it. Some thing like changing the time of day shouldn't be a huge task to see night time
@plucky hatch I wholly disagree. It won't really change hiring decisions, but a level designer who can script competently is really nice.

As a programmer, you want me to be fixing something only a programmer can fix. You don't want me linking up things in the level script to make interactions happen. If the designer can already write BP that doesn't do bad things, we're going to have a smoother time shipping the game.

@long pewter Focus on something, but having familiarity outside of the discipline isn't bad. The only reason you'd want to balance all your skills is to solo dev.

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

Hello. I am currently living in Romania, and I want to pursue a game-making career. We have no universities here specialized in that, and moving into another country alone at 18 to go to university seems too difficult ( I'm currently 16 in 10th grade ). So what I'm thinking to do is quit high school after I finish 10th grade, and while I'm still staying with parents ( until let's say about ~20 years old ) to learn myself how to do games better ( I finished some games before, but they're not that good ). By learning myself I mean to watch courses released by other universities, watch videos on YouTube, read tutorials on google, but mostly do more of my own games to gather up experience. So instead of having a high school diploma when I'm 18, I'll have 2 years of experience. I don't plan on getting hired right then at 18, but from then to look for jobs at indie companies that are just starting as a programmer/game designer. After that I'll look to find jobs in better indie companies/maybe even big AAA ones. However, I'm still not decided on doing this 100% mostly because of the uncertainty of finding a job. So what I want to ask is if I do this, would I be able to find a good enough job after 2 years ( possible more, I don't plan necessarily to get one at 18, but until 20 at the maximum ); and if not could I make my own good enough games to make money? I'm thinking that for sure I will be able to find some indie developers that would want someone with 2 years of experience over someone with a high school diploma, but if it doesn't work then without having one it will be rough.

green oyster Oct 8, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

@rich locust you can try doing the usual 4 years at Poli for programming. I think some courses include game and engine programming, and it should probably be ok to apply after at ubi or ea

cerulean coral Oct 8, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

if i wanted to make a vr game with unreal what version do i use?

mortal pond Oct 8, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

4.25 is the most up-to-date stable version

#

as a rule of thumb, unless there are plugins/content that are specific to what you're trying to make, go with the latest stable release

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

@green oyster Yeah that's true, but I assume that actually making games and looking into exactly how to make them is better at learning than doing 4 years of general programming. That would be a much safer option, because I could get an almost sure job into programming if I don't get one at making games or if I start disliking to make games; however I'll still have to think about it and currently I'm almost sure I want to pursue making games

green oyster Oct 8, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

@rich locust also dont thinn you should quit hs, if you do you cant go to college, and if you do pickup a job in romania you'll pay higher taxes in IT because you wont be in the higher education tax benefits

#

@rich locust you can always use your free time in college and highschool to learn by yourself and still be safe

#

I did that with 3d art while doing product design in college, and by the time i finished i had an ok grasp on 3d as well as the basis for a portfolio

digital gate Oct 8, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

I "broke into" the industry without a college degree. I would strongly suggest you finish HS as well.

#

Do games on the side - you have plenty of time even as you study

#

You will almost assuredly not be able to sell games solo that sustain yourself.

#

That being said, if you can cover education and you have strong competency (with evidence) you can fight the uphill battle. Go for it; that's more or less what I did.

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 6:18 AM

#

That's true, thank you, I'll consider that. The main idea to quit high school came to me because a lot of people say that these years ( the last ones of their adolescence ) are the best ones of their lives, so I'd much rather spend less time per day learning to do what I like to do, rather than learning all these useless ( for me at least ) subjects and learning games being secondary. There will also be gone the stress of having tests, of having homework, needing to study etc, and I'll have more time to enjoy myself in other ways than making games as well. So all the days I will either spend my time making games ( which I like ) or do other free time activities which I'll like. I don't see a point needing to finish high school and college if I am more stressed going to them and learn less than if I stay home

digital gate Oct 8, 2020, 6:18 AM

#

And if you wanna be sponsored for a work visa, that lack of HS will come back to bite you. I had the chance to do this with only a HS diploma... only one studio went for this and I wasn't going to be covered by the union negotiations in that country. In fact, the studio had to fight the government to EXEMPT me from that IIRC

#

I really feel you, but people who enjoy HS more than the rest of their lives are doing it wrong.

#

There's a LOT of red tape down the road.

#

Stick through basic education.

green oyster Oct 8, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

I agree, and it depends, college was way better for me

digital gate Oct 8, 2020, 6:21 AM

#

I'm post-college age and school was a really bad time for me and there's no chance I'd describe a younger age as a better time in my life

#

It's great

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

What if I work from home? Would there be any disadvantages for not having that diploma? I get that having it will make it way easier, but 2 more years of high school seem too big of a waste of time when the alternative is getting experience of exactly what I want to work. I would also assume that it would not be hard to find a job, because I'm pretty sure there would be at least some indie companies that would hire people based on knowing how to do games not on having a diploma or not. @digital gate

mystic hull Oct 8, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

You can't get experience if you don't actually create stuff

#

creating games using blueprints is one thing, solving real problems using math is another.

#

Stay in school, finish it, then reconsider what you want to do.
While you're in school, work on games as a hobby

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 7:05 AM

#

That's true, but what do solving real problems with math have to do with games? I get that you need to use math, but I don't think the one I learn now or will learn will be useful. And if it will, I can research it on google.

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 7:06 AM

#

And that, is why you are too young to drop out. If that question isn't obvious, you are not ready. Stay in school

green oyster Oct 8, 2020, 7:09 AM

#

@rich locust are you doing C++ at highschool? if you do, it's worth finishing just for that, you'll learn a lot of the basics. I wish I paid more attention to all the vector math and matrices and arrays we did in math class, would have helped a lot in UE. I can't even imagine understanding those if I didn't do them in high school at all. so there's plenty usefull stuff to learn there

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

@green oyster Yes I am, but I already know all the material because I learned it in particular with a professor since 5th grade because I went to the national olympiads ( not sure if it's only a my country thing, a national competition basically ) , so it's of not much use what I learn at school.
@flat gazelle I didn't mean to say that math is not useful, I meant to say that the one I am learning right now and that I think I will learn. I understand that the basic math from 1st to 8th grade is really important and I've used it a lot too in the other small games that I did.

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 7:26 AM

#

Whats your backup? The average gamedev career is less than 7 years. Lets say you do great and beat the odds and stay twice that. Are you going to do unskilled labor for the remaining 30 years of your worklife? Or do you live in a country where hs dropouts get more interesting jobs?

green oyster Oct 8, 2020, 7:31 AM

#

@rich locust then it should be piece of cake to wing it through the rest of highschool and learn programming for games if you already know the rest of the school material. really, you'll have a ton of free time to do whatever, just do the bare minimum for the rest of the subjects. like year 12 is just getting ready for the final exams, I remember skipping school for months, and barely going to some of the classes

#

dropping out or skipping college is a different matter, but highschool, you have to finish it

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 8:32 AM

#

@flat gazelle @green oyster well these are definitely good points that make me reconsider! The school year just started so I have a lot of time to think about it more to see if I there's things that I can do after game making, however now I'm less inclined to quit. Thanks for making me reconsider!

rich locust Oct 8, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

Hey @flat gazelle , if you're king enough to answer, from where is that 7 years number? I want to look into it further more

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 9:29 AM

#

I can't remember. I think it was from some IGDA survey or something. @lilac walrus do you remember?

lilac walrus Oct 8, 2020, 9:29 AM

#

oof, no idea, but I've definitely heard the number before

#

IIRC average age of industry "retirement" is about 30

#

it certainly seems to tally, even in this studio, I'm in my mid-30s and I'm one of the most senior people here on the development side 😐

#

both in terms of age and experience

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 9:38 AM

#

Yeah, it's weird. All the people I came up with are starting to sprout director titles left and right. Even though it feels like that should be titles for adults!

craggy nacelle Oct 8, 2020, 9:50 AM

#

rip, I'm 33

#

time to move to doing enterprise java software

plucky hatch Oct 8, 2020, 10:22 AM

#

You will almost assuredly not be able to sell games solo that sustain yourself.
@digital gate

I think I can do it solo https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/work-in-progress/1794535-liberationteam-beta-playstation-ps5/page3#post1811663

Unreal Engine Forums

Good day everyone, I'd like to showcase my game LiberationTeam and also be a encouragement to many who is working in Unreal Engine or starting.

LiberationTeam is a third person 16 multiplayer online shooter which I planned for the PS4 which now I'm aiming for PS5 which relies...

#

Also I studied college courses the information was highly important since I want to create my own game engine

#

And I'm going to secure my degree after I profit.

#

I recommend college to be fully aware of what your doing and beyond. Google most definitely didn't have all the answers.(google was bad). And I didn't feel comfortable selling something on such a large scale I couldn't fully manage.

#

Like if I used a 3rd party plug in like steam plug in then leave the customer's stuck if it's just gone or broken or etc.

#

To me I learned a ton of information, that's very useful with the college courses I studied no degree though.

#

If you have a mentor that'll teach you core fundamentals that's good..... But I know what's next is I need to know college math especially if I want to study shader and gpu

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

Couldn't find the source for the 5-7 year claim. Hopefully that means it's gone up! But I did find some stats in this years State of the industry.
"Every year we survey respondents about how long they’ve been involved in game development,
and every year we find the majority have been making games for 10 years or less. This year
was no exception"

#

Over 60% below 10 years. The biggest segment is at 3-6 years so there's probably some truth to it.

tacit siren Oct 8, 2020, 8:13 PM

#

there is a period couple of years in imo, when you lose the zeal you started with, and have to find a way to keep doing this without being permanently burned out

hybrid phoenix Oct 8, 2020, 8:25 PM

#

Yeah, it's weird. All the people I came up with are starting to sprout director titles left and right. Even though it feels like that should be titles for adults!
What do you consider adults 🤔

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

I don't know. People who have been doing this for 20 - 30 years

kindred mason Oct 8, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

20-30 years are more like grandpas/mas

#

But that's an interesting stat of avg gamedev lifespan being 7 years. I'll be hitting that pretty soon, but feel like I've just barely begin my journey.

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

You are in the biggest segment now then!

#

(The sample size for the survey was only 4000 people and it was done by GDC which skews it)

#

📎 unknown.png

#

It's interesting how the 3-6 year segment is so much larger than the rest

frigid ridge Oct 8, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

We are just hitting the 3 year mark and are at a point that we have the tools to complete projects. I would say the next 3 years will be the make or break to get us into the 7-10 year bracket. Good to know.

tacit siren Oct 8, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

@flat gazelle companies are unlikely to pay for junior's trip to a GDC, so might be skewed pretty bad

flat gazelle Oct 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

Don't have to attend to fill it out though

tacit siren Oct 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

nods

lilac walrus Oct 9, 2020, 8:16 AM

#

It's interesting how the 3-6 year segment is so much larger than the rest
@flat gazelle Yeah, that seems to back up the 'leaving at 30' number quite accurately, oddly enough.

rich locust Oct 9, 2020, 10:10 AM

#

So the people that quit at about 30 like the avarage seems to be, what do they turn to be? Something in the same specialized field, like game programmers become programmers but not for games, artists become freelancers or web designers idk, things like that? Do the skills learned from game development in these specializations translate into other fields? ( english is not my first language sorry if this sounds weird )

craggy nacelle Oct 9, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

Programming should translate just fine at least, I'd assume graphics design etc. should as well

honest cipher Oct 9, 2020, 10:22 AM

#

@rich locust engine devs are highly regarded in some "high performance" programming jobs

#

like money trading or datacenter stuff

#

mostly couse game engine devs are some of the biggest perf tryhards in the planet

#

and they dont teach high performance stuff at any school

#

a more general game programmer can just go do whatever programming job, its not like its hard to switch

hybrid phoenix Oct 9, 2020, 12:28 PM

#

I do also want to say that "how long have you been involved" is a vastly different matter from "how long have you had a career in gamedev?"

#

I also think the low end is skewed downward, as most utterly green people in the industry likely won't fill out such a survey

flat gazelle Oct 9, 2020, 12:30 PM

#

Yes, but since the result has been the same for years, it matches the career length graph pretty well.

thin holly Oct 9, 2020, 12:32 PM

#

Looking for someone to work under and learn from like shadow someone pls if you are will to do so DM me

hybrid phoenix Oct 9, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

Oh yeah not disputing that Glad, I think the cutoff is probably reasonably accurate

#

Just someone commented on the peak at 3-6, which I believe can be adequately explained by newbies probably just not filling in these surveys

steel creek Oct 9, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

keep in mind, I fill those out too, along with all the people in engineering. Its not just "game" devs who go to GDC.

bronze dew Oct 9, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

*looks at his almost 20 years

outer cipher Oct 10, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

@honest cipher that and they try to simulate reality in the most efficient manner, which is going to be pretty popular once everyone uses 5G AR Overlays

plucky hatch Oct 10, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

Where is the best place to find someone to hire for short and simple blueprint modification jobs?

digital gate Oct 10, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

Well there's here, there's the forums, there's job boards, fiver, upwork.

#

I'd go with all of em but have a plan to evaluate the responders

plucky hatch Oct 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

How would you implement that plan? It's for a networking feature, and I'm as smart as a rock when it comes to replication.

strange jolt Oct 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

what would one have to know to get paid $500 a week with a game dev team

flat gazelle Oct 10, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Nothing? That's less than a dayrate for 1.

strange jolt Oct 10, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

lol

#

im being serious tho

flat gazelle Oct 10, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Me too

#

My freelance dayrate is 680

strange jolt Oct 10, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

i know C# C++ blueprints html css javascript php node js and websockets for networking and more

#

i also know obj c and swift

#

and i am working on two non paid games and i need money

plucky hatch Oct 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

500 a week is a little under the highest welfare rate where I live. I guess it would be smart to wait until I've hit all bottlenecks and outsource everything in one sweep.

strange jolt Oct 10, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

im just asking for a small indie team

static urchin Oct 11, 2020, 10:38 AM

#

in my country, a junior dev is on ~$800 pw... that would be completion of a strong college course with a couple strong example projects to share.

I can't remember if it were here or a different chat, one teamleader said: "I want to see a github - not to see all greens-across the board... but to look at your current projects to see what you are exploring, and then to look back 3-4 months to see how much you have learned in that time"

#

(small indie team you would need to know a lot more as you will be "context switching" MUCH more often due to less hands-on-deck)

plucky hatch Oct 11, 2020, 10:59 AM

#

800/week is a pretty good salary in any highly developed country.

#

After another calculation, just realized it would be a very good salary AFTER taxes.

hybrid phoenix Oct 11, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

You're having fundamentally different discussions here guys

#

Employment rates are a very different story from freelance rates

#

Glad's day-rate for his day job is not 680/day, that's his day-rate for freelancing, because freelance brings in loads of extra fuss and costs that you wouldn't have to worry about with a regular job, and adds a lot of insecurity because you don't know when your next job will hit

#

So yeah, $500/week doesn't require loads of knowledge, the problem is that you'll need to actually find the jobs to pay you that

rapid iron Oct 11, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

Hey guys I have been trying to get a job as a programmer for unreal engine. But the requirements of most jobs includes strong knowledge in optimization for mobile and experience level of 2 years minimum.

I have just finished college, can do both blueprints and c++ (if I get the documentation of the api) and am not able to make the cut.

Any advice?

lilac walrus Oct 11, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

if the only work you're finding requires experience optimising for mobile... perhaps learn to optimise for mobile?

rapid iron Oct 11, 2020, 5:34 PM

#

@lilac walrus I have no means to learn what knowledge is reqired for commercial level which one would usually be learn while being hired through experience

craggy nacelle Oct 11, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

there's no such thing as "commercial level".. you either can or can not :D

#

a lot of commercial games are a big mess when it comes to game logic etc.

lilac walrus Oct 11, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

sadly that is true, but not necessarily what one should aspire to

#

a good place to start learning to optimise for mobile is to make something that will run on your mobile phone

#

simply learn by doing

#

and there are plenty of google-able resources that may assist

craggy nacelle Oct 11, 2020, 5:40 PM

#

yeah, just wanted to point it out because I see a lot of folks doubting their skills just because they haven't been paid to do stuff :)

rapid iron Oct 11, 2020, 5:47 PM

#

i have applied to a lot of places @craggy nacelle mobile was not necessary but even entry level jobs have been asking for 3 years experience and I only got shortlisted for 1 ue4 job who has not contacted me for weeks when i asked about the paperwork.

craggy nacelle Oct 11, 2020, 5:48 PM

#

if you can show some cool/interesting/challenging projects that's usually fairly helpful when you lack actual work experience

#

that's pretty much how I got work when I was in that situation (although my professional field isn't gamedev)

rapid iron Oct 11, 2020, 5:49 PM

#

and about learning more advanced stuff in ue4? documentation in c++ is not good and most tutorials i found only cover basics

craggy nacelle Oct 11, 2020, 5:49 PM

#

make a game :)

#

or if not a full game, try to do things you think would be interesting mechanics or features to try out and build

#

personally I enjoy tinkering with movement mechanics and different shooting / combat systems, there's always something interesting you can do with those and they also come together pretty easily into small levels

ashen lynx Oct 11, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

@rapid iron Show your github(or anything else, resembling your portfolio) here and you will be given exact and precise reason why you haven't received much positive responses. If you truly wish to know whys and not pursing any other goals when asking that is.

lusty rover Oct 11, 2020, 5:59 PM

#

!bal

rapid iron Oct 11, 2020, 6:14 PM

#

@rapid iron Show your github(or anything else, resembling your portfolio) here and you will be given exact and precise reason why you haven't received much positive responses. If you truly wish to know whys and not pursing any other goals when asking that is.
@ashen lynx so one project as an example of how each work is presented will do right?

hybrid phoenix Oct 12, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

You should post here whatever you're sending out with your job applications

granite brook Oct 13, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

@shy helm Please post into #looking-for-talent and don't try to tag everyone.

craggy nacelle Oct 13, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

that sounds like bad parenting zomgmoFace

granite brook Oct 13, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

Trust me, that's what you end up feeling like with all the stuff that's posted.

lilac walrus Oct 13, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

rigging and animation is usually handled by another person, yes

#

often materials are another person too, but in the indie space that happens a bit less

gentle stone Oct 14, 2020, 8:31 AM

#

It always makes sense that someone specialized does a specific job. It comes down to where you are at, what you can afford and what quality you require

#

There are plenty of artists that do all of what you listed, but they might not be great in all of those fields

short oriole Oct 14, 2020, 3:38 PM

#

Hi guys. Hopefully it's the right place for my question…

I would like to get a general idea and effort estimation of how complicated it is to develop a certain mini-game that I have in mind.

I would really appreciate to chat/talk with an all-around knowledgable person who can help me out. Thank you!

hybrid phoenix Oct 14, 2020, 3:39 PM

#

Would recommend just putting it here, odds of receiving a response are a lot better

short oriole Oct 14, 2020, 3:51 PM

#

👍

old vault Oct 14, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

new to game design, and wanted to hire a tutor for ue4. I want the lesson to be focused on blue prints. I want to be able to play around with the 2d game model and know what I am doing. I am learning c# which I know isn’t super helpful, but I am really good with coding logic / pseudo code, so I feel like I will be able to handle blue prints pretty well. I’m a fast learner, and was planning on doing it over zoom/ discord.
Chat with me to discuss price range and length of lessons.

radiant path Oct 14, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

listen buddy you can make whatever ya desire just search up how to do it and then slowly apply all the knowlege you get into one game

#

im currently getting ready to make a photo realistic world

old vault Oct 14, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

That’s true, but I am always have questions, and I can’t ask the YouTube videos a million small questions and get quick responses back.

radiant path Oct 14, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

ahhhh that i deeply connect with

old vault Oct 14, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

lol

radiant path Oct 14, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

being able to ask a human is much easier than asking a machine

#

ima work on photorealistic avatars with ai eventually

#

brb

#

24 males 24 females

#

then gotta make a evolutionarry code

#

i think ya know where this is going

#

also gotta make it so they can design there own houses

#

and weapons and stuff like that

ripe zinc Oct 14, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

So I have been doing a lot of thinking and reflecting of my current career life and path as of late. I'm an Environment Artist at heart, but I've always answered the interview questions of Where do you see yourself in 5 years? with "Well, I'd like to move into an Environment Tech Art sort of role". Designer, and Painter are an integral part of my work flow, but I want to actually start taking steps to grow more as a Tech Artist. I'd like to be able to expand my skillset as an artist to where I can apply for both, or either, roles at a company. Does anyone have resources they can share (books, articles, pdfs, youtubes, anything), or would be able to speak to how to get started as a Tech Artist? If so, please @ me or DM me, as things can get easily lost and I don't want to miss your comments.

For context, I've been in the industry for over a decade. I've worked with many Tech Artist and between all the different studios, the role is incredibly vague in what to expect. Rigging a character is a weak skill I have, I've been wanting to do more awesome things with shaders, and I've helped build pipelines and tools with engineers. I feel like I'm at the point of "I understand what code is doing.. I just don't know how to write it." Kinda like being illiterate, and I'd like to change that.

silver bay Oct 15, 2020, 8:46 AM

#

@ripe zinc I made this exact leap. Blueprints were my gateway. They gave me an understanding of object based programming and understanding logic. Tech Art is such a vast field and each artist has their own niche. If your into shaders, start learning hlsl, there are tons of resources to learn from. Shadertoy.com is a great place to get help and see examples as it shows a shader and also provides the code with community comments on the same page.

hybrid phoenix Oct 15, 2020, 8:47 AM

#

Beat me to it, but I was going to say exactly that ^

silver bay Oct 15, 2020, 8:47 AM

#

😄

hybrid phoenix Oct 15, 2020, 8:48 AM

#

The way I got into tech art was to just be a generalist who handled everything in-engine on a bunch of indie projects. Ended up spending a lot of my time doing materials/shaders and programming, as well as being the only person actively optimizing and such

#

If you've got your art background, you now need to go work on your tech background, so just get into programming and shaders, maybe make a few small prototypes and make them run as well and look as great as humanly possible

silver bay Oct 15, 2020, 8:49 AM

#

I started b/c i was tired of waiting for other people to finish their bits. So I started learning what came before and after my part, and kept going from there. I'm still learning, no plans on stopping.

#

On a side note, going into tech art opened a lot of doors professionally. Not just in games, but film, tv, commercials. The skills are universal and your always in demand.

jaunty patio Oct 16, 2020, 3:51 PM

#

@honest cipher Hi there, quick question. How do listings get posted on the two job board channels?? It says I can't post in either one.

remote saffron Oct 16, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

jaunty patio Oct 16, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

@remote saffron thanks!

winter ember Oct 16, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

A bit of a different direction here, but has anyone ever taken a code bootcamp? did you find it helpful in terms of game dev learning?

#

I recognize that learning different languages and different computer architecture/systems can be useful, but just curious about if anyone has been in one and is trying to work in game dev, and whether that's helped or not

runic grail Oct 16, 2020, 8:00 PM

#

I notice a lot of people are artists or something along those lines.... I don’t have an artistic bone in my body but I love the creation and building aspect of games

#

I guess I’m looking for someone to say that’s enough to keep trying lol

brazen zinc Oct 16, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

You can develop artistic skills over time

#

Or get into gameplay programming perhaps

steel creek Oct 16, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

that’s enough to keep trying

runic grail Oct 16, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

well im attempting to do multiplayer and a dedicated server. I give up.

#

lmaoo

drifting stratus Oct 16, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

@plucky hatch i have another interview next week with a company that has a government contract to do unity3d development for some military simulation game lol

#

dunno tho man, its rough

#

this one isn't, so i think i might have a better chance

#

its honestly just a contracting company for the US Federal government lol

#

which from my experience, you tend to get hired really easily

#

federal government is stupid

#

😭

#

i dont think so

#

i mean ill still do a great job

#

and ill give it my all but

#

idk if it would land me a job at a cool company

#

like Riot games

#

or something

#

yea

#

i mean this company i have an interview with

#

has really good benefits

#

lol

#

401k, dental,health, life insurance, 2 weeks vaction + all federal holidays (coz gov't contracts)

#

also they will pay for me to get a masters degree

#

lol

flat gazelle Oct 16, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

Got data and experience to back up that 90% claim?

#

I have only worked for EA, Ubisoft, activision and some independants so I might not have a great overview. Would be nice to hear yours.

#

Lol

#

I thought you had credible sources

#

my bad

#

Not saying the companies are perfect, but having actually worked at them I'm going with my own experience rather than what you think.

#

As you were!

craggy nacelle Oct 16, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

I'm kind of curious how this is at Remedy Entertainment or Bugbear... since Finland generally has a very good work life balance for employees

#

at least I've never heard horror stories from them about bad working conditions :D

ashen lynx Oct 16, 2020, 11:44 PM

#

So, to sum up, everything is horrible and there seems to be no perspective at all ?

flat gazelle Oct 16, 2020, 11:45 PM

#

That's about it

#

xD

#

How many of those have you been in it?

#

Perhaps I should leave the union I've been in since 2012 so I can reunionize. Sounds fun

dense heath Oct 16, 2020, 11:49 PM

#

they need some basic worker protection laws before anything else

drifting stratus Oct 16, 2020, 11:51 PM

#

@plucky hatch what do u do for work

#

ah

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

Ok I have a question I dont have enough money to go to college and College doesn't provide a degree or diploma in game art and design soo I'm kinda going for a private institute instead that provides the course content i need and has tie-ups with the game companies but the thing is that the course doesn't provide me a diploma just a certificate and an industry ready portfolio sooo when hiring Will the HR prefer ppl from a degree/diploma background or not?

ashen lynx Oct 17, 2020, 1:33 PM

#

Will the HR prefer ppl from a degree/diploma background or not? For art position, in almost all cases, degree/diploma will only matter in equal or near equal with the other candidate scenario. @golden blade

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

@ashen lynx So it wont matter whether I have a degree or not?

#

they will only look at my portfolio

green oyster Oct 17, 2020, 1:40 PM

#

Portfolio is more important. My last job had artists that finished stuff like accounting

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:41 PM

#

finished stuff like accounting? I didn't get that phrase...sowwy I'm from totally other part of the world

green oyster Oct 17, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

i mean they had an accounting degree and got hired as artists solely on portfolio

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

ohhh

#

so i'm still an high school graduate and I dont have degree in anything that's why I wanted to ask haha

#

because i heard having a degree even if its not related to anything that one is doing Right now still boost my chances of getting hired

#

Also if i want to les say apply for a game company in another country will having no degree matter ?

green oyster Oct 17, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

I think it might be better to get some experience under your belt instead of doing a degree without any relation to art, that will boost your chances more. some people do something close like design or sculpture or something like that if they can't find a game art specialization

#

it might be easier to get a visa if you have higher education

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

Guys how exactly people verify that you have worked on AAA titles?

green oyster Oct 17, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

like sponsorhips, dunno

flat gazelle Oct 17, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

Check the credits of the game?

green oyster Oct 17, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

@plucky hatch don't think they do? like if you lie about it, they'll know the first day?

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:49 PM

#

I mean the institute is providing full fledge course in game art and design @green oyster

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:49 PM

#

I mean ive worked on a unity mobile game and a ue4 vr game for my internship, but companies require finished console/ pc projects

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:50 PM

#

but i the end i will only get a certificate and my industry ready portfolio no degree or diploma

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:50 PM

#

Btw im from a gaming college @golden blade and its really disappointing, be a programmer first then get into game programming

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:50 PM

#

No no I'm wanna do the art side my fren

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

Solve a couple of technical problems so you have some substance and then just master the phrase

"Ah that good ol crunch. But what can you do, execs want to ship what they wanna ship"@plucky hatch

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

Ah i see then its cool. Im assuming youre from India?

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

Yeee

#

Ron

ashen lynx Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

A series of not more than a dozen of questions can reliably confirm if experience is credible or not, even if the experience you claim is not otherwise verifiable. @plucky hatch

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

(obviously joking you can't fake AAA experience and they will verify)

flat gazelle Oct 17, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

And if you have worked on a AAA game, you should be able to point at what you did and explain it.

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

I mean can code but more interested in game design and art @plucky hatch

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

Yea i try my best to write good quality code, but idk what if they ask for steam api or something like ps api

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

That hasn't come up in any interview I've been in

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

OH really? that good then

#

Its just the technical round ig

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@plucky hatch Where are u from?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

India

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

specific apis wouldn't be something Id want to spend interview time on. Std library? Sure. Particular engines? Sure. Problem solving or people skills in general? Sure.

What function calls would you use to query the rich presence of a user on PLATFORM? Nah.

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

ohh were did u get the gaming degree from then? @plucky hatch

#

seamedu, maya ?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

Im still in college, its called backstage pass

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

I mean I'm going with maaya but they dont provide a degree just a certificate

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

@digital gate yea im trying to get into design patterns and general gameplay mechanics

#

Tbh i had a walk in cuz of my resume

#

and its a breeze for artist in india

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 1:58 PM

#

ohhh

#

yea im trying to get into design patterns and general gameplay mechanics
@plucky hatch wait dont they teach u this there ? gameplay mechanics and level design?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 2:00 PM

#

nope, just introduction to c, c++, java, data structures , opengl and unity

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 2:00 PM

#

Oh and what year are u in?

#

also damn 3.5 lakhs for only that

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 2:00 PM

#

you honestly need to put in effort to be on par with the industry

#

4th

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

Damn even i know c# fluently Loool

#

but I wanna go for the art side because I love doing art and learning to make things and do environment art in general

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 2:02 PM

#

well knowing the language is a part of the step tbh, I insisted on working on a client project solo cuz i aint babysitting fellow interns

#

ah i see

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 2:02 PM

#

yea

#

I totally get that

#

babysitting isn't a thing

#

and shouldn't be haha

#

nope, just introduction to c, c++, java, data structures , opengl and unity
@plucky hatch No ue4?

#

Lool what are they teaching u then?

#

have u worked with unique game mechanics and stuff

#

like wall running and using raycast system... enemy AI programming and stuff?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

nothing tbh im just here for the degree lul. I tend to focus on designing full and modular systems like quest/ mission system along with networking.Id rather prototype such stuff than coming up with new or fun mechanics cuz thats the designer job

#

and no ue4

golden blade Oct 17, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-dog-bruhdog-what-silly-gif-14706691

Tenor

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

So, would you say you're interested in being a gameplay programmer specifically @plucky hatch ?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 2:30 PM

#

Yup

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 3:00 PM

#

A gameplay programmer who is open about personal disdain for prototyping mechanics?

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 3:05 PM

#

Oh no no , I enjoying making those but i personally think showing something like a basic hook mechanic or a patrol ai to be very basic in the eyes of the person hiring

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

Don't you just love "ambition guilt?" It's Saturday and I've been working on a game for 8 hours, almost no break and caught my mind whispering: "You lazy ass, why are you taking a break watching Netflix. You will never mount to anything in life..." Typically low-selfesteem begins gathering at that point. So back to work, no whining, no breaks.

zenith kestrel Oct 17, 2020, 6:04 PM

#

yep thats what im doing now

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

@plucky hatch I just call that being too hard in yourself

#

mostly because even at 4 hours dedicated at one task, you're already starting to loose efficiency. you should measure your progress or fruits by something objective.

#

You fixed that attachment issue. You made jumping feel better. You added a boss mechanic.

Spending 11 hours on your game per day doesn't make it a good game.

#

@plucky hatch Oh I see. It's worth including at least one "trivial" mechanic (with a good spin or otherwise your own take) but I would not highlight it. You're right that showcasing more complex things will work better for you

plucky hatch Oct 17, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

mostly because even at 4 hours dedicated at one task, you're already starting to loose efficiency. you should measure your progress or fruits by something objective.
@digital gate Not really. My lifestyle enables 12-16 hours on the weekends on focused mental work. It came about as a byproduct of overcoming severe mental stress and chronic fatigue. I'm already on hour twelve and plundering sleep, just to be able to put in atleast 12 tomorrow.

digital gate Oct 17, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

how do you empirically PROVE that

#

because it you actually have no drop off, great. Keep doing that. I would bet money you either somehow lowered your peak performance or you suffer a decline

plucky hatch Oct 18, 2020, 9:39 AM

#

I don't prove anythig to anyone, that's a waste of time. I just do and keeping doing. It's also a matter of radical resting methods, like float tanks, massage. Very specific nutrition, intermittent fasting, Wim Hof breathing, no toxic input or people in my life, no reading comments, no social media (unless it's career related and only people within my goals), absolutely zero social life, aside from very few family members, etc. etc.

#

@digital gate yea, something like just cause physics would be super fun to work with, maybe importing and using havok engine would be a huge plus

flat gazelle Oct 18, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

Burnout in 3... 2...

plush kestrel Oct 18, 2020, 10:02 AM

#

absolutely zero social life? That doesn't sound very good! No human being can be healthy without some kind of social life

digital gate Oct 18, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

@flat gazelle heh I tried

#

@plucky hatch I meant to yourself. Hey rest easy (lel), I don't have to convince you of anything and I'll stop

ashen lynx Oct 18, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

It's also a matter of radical resting methods, like float tanks, massage. Very specific nutrition, intermittent fasting, Wim Hof breathing, no toxic input or people in my life, no reading comments, no social media (unless it's career related and only people within my goals), absolutely zero social life, aside from very few family members, etc. etc. And in span from minimum of zero to maximum of 70-80 years, how you breathed won't matter at all. Unless of course specific breathing technique lowers your CO2 footprint, but that is unlikely. Sense of regret, that you did not eat what you want to will add up to your depression, source of which is complete lack of interactions. Solo sprints are nice, but they are next to meaningless where team marathon matters. @plucky hatch

mystic ore Oct 18, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

@plucky hatch , I feel ya. Had to scroll back a few to see the whole convo, but huge same here on my part. @ashen lynx , "solo sprints" determine what we are capable of and what we can offer to a team, IF we choose to do so. Some of us work much better solo. Not everyone wants or needs to be part of a team.

ashen lynx Oct 18, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

Not everyone wants to is unquestionable, needs to, however, is debatable.

plucky hatch Oct 18, 2020, 6:01 PM

#

Teams are often very slow and inefficient, due to lack of management and leadership and of course ego on both sides.

#

Then there is the myth about mistakes being real or possible. Preparation yields results, which may not always match our fantasy about what to expect.

#

I think the main role of a team leader, would be to dissolve mental obstacles, prepare and plan well, but otherwise let people do things the way they do best. Not least working hours. Some thrive at 4am, others at 10am.

lilac walrus Oct 18, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

if your team is all operating in different time zones, communication becomes a severe barrier, and any problem that requires the cooperation of two or more individuals takes much longer to resolve

#

two people in the same room can have a back-and-forth involving eight questions that takes 20 minutes - if that's an e-mail chain you've instead taken eight days

plush kestrel Oct 19, 2020, 12:49 AM

#

Very little of value in life gets accomplished alone imo, and very little of it is enjoyable for any length of time. We're tribal, social mammals. There's six million years of evolution behind that, it's completely ingrained in us at every level of analysis - even for those of us who are more at the introverted end of the personality distribution

#

You cannot be mentally healthy without any social interaction

craggy nacelle Oct 19, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

tbh I'd love to see what these folks who "talk the talk" about grinding ridiculous hours and stuff actually show what they've achieved

#

I see folks talk big about how they achieve so and so much but I don't remember any of them ever actually showing for example a released game

#

This isn't intended to suggest that anyone who says that sorta thing works for them is a liar or anything - maybe it works for them, and they don't have to prove it or anything if they don't feel like it

#

I'm just curious because it does go sort of contrary to the typical knowledge on these types of things :)

lilac walrus Oct 19, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

it's pretty rare for a totally solo dev to release anything noteworthy to be fair

drifting stratus Oct 19, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

anyone here work at a real studio

#

not an indie studio, or something

#

but a real studio which has income, structure, clear hierarchy of seniority

#

and growth opportunities (learning...etc)

#

that's my ideal place to work

lilac walrus Oct 19, 2020, 9:09 AM

#

pretty sure a lot of people do

hybrid phoenix Oct 19, 2020, 9:22 AM

#

Yup, can attest many people here do

digital gate Oct 19, 2020, 3:12 PM

#

I've heard from a trusted source that studio jobs exist

flat gazelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:16 PM

#

I have my doubts.

ashen lynx Oct 19, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

What if studio has income, structure, clear hierarchy of seniority. Even grown opportunities. Hell, even kitchen with a microwave. But it is virtual, not a real one. Does it still count ?

craggy nacelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

How does it have a kitchen with a microwave if it's a virtual studio 🤔

flat gazelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Yeah, I don't trust virtual micorwaves at all.

ashen lynx Oct 19, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

A virtual one!

flat gazelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Ha

craggy nacelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

It exists in Second Life?

ashen lynx Oct 19, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

You can't say that it exist, for it being virtual, and hence not in this plane of existance

#

Tbh, kitchen offers best growth opportunities in a studio.

craggy nacelle Oct 19, 2020, 3:43 PM

#

Circumferential growth alex

plucky hatch Oct 19, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

Not in my future studio, it will be super healthy, or find another job.

tidal moth Oct 19, 2020, 6:22 PM

#

microwaves status: banned

surreal bluff Oct 19, 2020, 8:14 PM

#

hello guys i hope i write it on the correct channel but i want to offer myself as designer and a website designer you may contact with me if you its will be paid

lavish hinge Oct 19, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

📎 LabtYQD.png

supple timber Oct 19, 2020, 9:24 PM

#

Should i work on my own projes apongside uni?

verbal pagoda Oct 20, 2020, 12:57 AM

#

Any animation experts want to join my small studio to help us build our game, pm me for details

tight sluice Oct 20, 2020, 2:56 AM

#

I litterally just tried to kill that bastard @lavish hinge

molten current Oct 20, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

Should i work on my own projes apongside uni?
@supple timber I'm just finishing my 1 year at VFS 3D Animation & VFX campus - and I can confidently say it depends on what you expect for yourself. I find more satisfaction in working hard to complete assignments in a way that is portfolio worthy if possible. Some examples are on my instagram @parker.hartzler.art https://www.instagram.com/parker_hartzler_art/

supple timber Oct 20, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

i do programming

molten current Oct 20, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

scripting language is definitely a diff thing, my bad!

#

I need to learn python :3

supple timber Oct 20, 2020, 7:35 AM

#

i have already learned a good amount of c++

languid adder Oct 22, 2020, 12:35 AM

#

https://strawpoll.com/v6w32qu8e

When do you browse Artstation? - StrawPoll

What's your opinion? Vote now: Morning with coffee (before 10), Before noon

lilac walrus Oct 23, 2020, 8:04 AM

#

<@&213101288538374145> - looks like we have a spammer

north narwhal Oct 23, 2020, 8:04 AM

#

indeed we do

#

thanks for the ping

rich locust Oct 23, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

Hello, not sure if this is the right place, but I want to ask, I really like the ui maker from ue4, is there anything similar to it in the programming world? So a language/app where there's an interface with drag and drop and I can change the properties. ( only for the visual side of things, for what each button does or other things like that there would be actual code )

shut token Oct 23, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

They're typically called WYSISWYG editors. What You See Is What You Get. Can just google for those. There's quite a few.

rich locust Oct 23, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

Thank you! I'll look into them!

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 3:51 PM

#

I got a really good offer to work for federal gov't doing game simulations in Unity3D

#

But I'm scared, federal gov't still says medical marijuana is illegal, I used it like two times, and I have to get secret level clearance.

#

They want me to quit my current job, for a job that is contingent upon something out of my control.

#

Should I do it? 😦

#

It's so sad because over 30 states it's legal, I didn't even get it off the street, and I had a doctors recommendation because of a disability.

#

The pay is amazing, and I would love to work there, but I don't know if I'll get clearance because of weed.

#

Besides that, my record is clean

#

Anyone else experienced this?

wheat cradle Oct 24, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

You should probably find a lawyer to help you figure out if you can still apply and how, just a shower thought

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 3:57 PM

#

I spoke to a lawyer actually, and they said that I could potentially sue the government for Disability discrimination since I actually got the medical marijuana for a disability it could be against the american disabilities act.

wheat cradle Oct 24, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

that sounds like that would take a lot of time tho

#

maybe you can talk it out with the employer without involving any suing ? idk how flexible they'd be on the matter

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

yeah

#

u wouldnt sue the employer lol

#

i dont think someone smoking pot makes them a national security risk

#

smokes a joint
evidently weed makes u visit jihadi website

#

Thats a joke btw lmao

wheat cradle Oct 24, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

LULW

#

"man arrested for smoking medicinal weed facing terrorism-related charges" can't wait for the clickbait stuff

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

lmao

digital gate Oct 24, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

@drifting stratus having any sort of law breaking in your past is potential leverage. If you don't tell them about it and then later on somebody else knows about it and that you didn't tell them, then that person could use that knowledge to apply pressure (mostly because of the lie and not even the crime itself).

Might sound super duper silly, but that's the reasoning. I don't know that they will care, but I don't have any examples I can point to where somebody comes clean about it and got the job.

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

Everyone is telling me to ju st be honest

digital gate Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

At this point the cat is likely out of the bag regardless? I mean you are posting about this on Discord

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

lol xD

#

the DEA doesn't even enforce it tho

#

there are hundreds of thousands of weed dispensaries around the country

#

selling pounds of weed

#

every day

digital gate Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

Yeah

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

and nothing happens

digital gate Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

so maybe it wont be a big deal?

#

idk

#

lol

digital gate Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

I'm not going to strongly advise either way

drifting stratus Oct 24, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

xD

steel creek Oct 24, 2020, 6:21 PM

#

lel joint 💨 💨 💨

wheat cradle Oct 24, 2020, 8:23 PM

#

ppSmoke ppSecondHand

zenith panther Oct 25, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

😮

#

🦵

stuck mountain Oct 25, 2020, 4:56 AM

#

I'm applying to game dev jobs tonight; are you supposed to say you're disabled on these applications. I worry I won't get hired if I say yes.

spice dagger Oct 25, 2020, 4:59 AM

#

If you think it would impede your ability to perform the job then being honest about it is probably the better option, since in most countries it is illegal to discriminate based on a disability. If it is not relevant to the job or your ability to perform the job, i don't think its necessary to even mention it. Though again, honesty should always be the best policy.

wary idol Oct 25, 2020, 5:03 AM

#

If it doesn't affect your ability to do the job it shouldn't matter to them

plucky hatch Oct 26, 2020, 8:15 AM

#

If you think it would impede your ability to perform the job then being honest about it is probably the better option, since in most countries it is illegal to discriminate based on a disability.

heh, I can't use either of my arms, and I program using a microphone and voice recognition software. I never got past the second interview with official companies, basically whenever they found out about my disability. All the rejections were standard cookie-cutter legalese, of course no reference to my disability. So, did they legally discriminate against me based on my disability? Of course not. But at the end of the day a healthier person got the job, heh. De jure and de facto are disjointed realities...

zenith cape Oct 26, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

Hello,
I'm Davide and i'm a 3d artist (Blender, Unreal Engine, Touchdesigner, Quixel mixer, adobe packages). I'm a freelancer right now, with a good experience in 3d market and fashion, i used to co-own a studio and we did a lot of nice stuff and i worked in the field since past 4 years.
RIght now i'm looking for people really motivated to join the team and make a virtual studio, be part of a studio it isnt only an opportunity to improve own workflow but it also make possible to take bigger project, well paid and more fun than usual. The idea is to focus on VR, AR, Animation about luxury, fashion, design.
If anyone may be interested in, pls dm me and we will chat a bit
Good day to all

plush ruin Oct 26, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

Hey im new to unreal engine an gaming design as a whole mostly. Been wondering exactly what all is needed for game designing?

tidal moth Oct 26, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

there is no blueprint for design

#

you're never going to find a "complete" curriculum that will take you through every form of design. the best you can do is dive head first into making stuff. over time, you'll get better

arctic sierra Oct 27, 2020, 12:49 AM

#

There is no "blueprint"....Insert corny "but there are tons of (blueprints) in UE" comment here:

floral basin Oct 27, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

how do you all freelancers get paid in royalty?
do you sign contracts and stuff?

flat gazelle Oct 27, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

Never work without a contract.

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

how do you all freelancers get paid in royalty?
If you're getting paid royalty, that generally means you're not getting paid.

flat gazelle Oct 27, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

At least for game projects.

#

I get royalties from my pluralsight course.

#

But that's a bit different.

scenic moon Oct 27, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

If you're getting paid royalty, that generally means you're not getting paid.
@hybrid phoenix, could you elaborate on this please?

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

Royalty projects tend to die before they make money

#

Or just don't make any meaningful amount of money

#

Or are run by shady people that just don't pay out to the team

scenic moon Oct 27, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

Is this based off experience or are there some statistics on this that we can study? That's pretty demoralizing

#

I understand that the average indie project is not profitable, but I'd like to see some numbers on this, because I feel like every time I tune in here It's just you guys telling us that we should work for EA or not work at all

#

and I don't mean that in a combative way but you guys are the big dogs lol

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

Based off experience from everyone that I know that's been doing this for more than five years

#

Indie profitability is something there's statistics on, though

#

Don't have them on hand, but they should be easy enough to find. There's a few GDC talks, I think

scenic moon Oct 27, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

How would you recommend somebody break into the industry, prove skill through portfolio and apply everywhere? Or work on a small scope project just to have a "shipped title" on your portfolio?

#

by "prove skill through portfolio" I mean make projects that just demonstrate you know and understand the skills you are advertising for yourself, like a programmer would on github

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

Pick what you want to do and go do it

#

Then use that as your portfolio

#

Released titles are good, but a tiny, unpolished homebrew thing where you half-assed all the stuff outside of your expertise is not going to help your chances

#

So if you can't put out a high-quality product, stick to your area of expertise

flat gazelle Oct 27, 2020, 7:50 PM

#

Trying to find stats of the opposite and so far I've only found one rev share project that made it. Out of countless ones.

#

Will keep looking

#

I think it's hard to find stats that are not survivorship biased.

#

Projects that tank after two months and the devs leave aren't going to show up on a igda survey etc.

#

One of the stats I did find was that 50% of games that actually got finsihed and released on steam made less than $4000 which is not much if you are more than one dev spending some time on it.

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

Of course, that's a skewed stat, because a very large portion of games being released on Steam is just hot garbage

#

But even so, it's good information to have

flat gazelle Oct 27, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

I keep coming across 1% as a number for games that actually make it as revshare. I.E shipping something.

#

But I think that's from a quora post (that seems knowledgeable, but who knows)

#

But 1% sounds way too high.

hybrid phoenix Oct 27, 2020, 8:06 PM

#

Would making and dealing with animation blueprints be the responsibility of a character animator or game programmer? Need it for a vacancy text
That depends on what your vacancy is

#

If you're looking for a game programmer and don't have anyone who can do anim BPs, you can totally specify anim bp experience as a requirement

#

It is not unreasonable to put it on either of those, assuming the character animator is somewhat technically inclined as well, or the game programmer is somewhat familiar with animation implementation

winged axle Oct 28, 2020, 4:33 AM

#

^ this is true, you might also mention it with AI, because there's probably lots of people like me, I specialise in AI, however through specializing in AI I have learned a good amount of blueprints, as well as tons of animation due to it being handy to make my own animations when setting up AI, and it's also not unreasonable to assume someone who has lots of experience in animation, blueprints, or AI also has experience in level design or materials as well, as doing ai I often have to create my own environment for testing that AI and doing animation I often have to know the level pretty good to know how the animations should be in comparison to it. I'm probably just weird for learning so much about materials and auto tools now that I think about it, they were kinda unnecessary, but did speed up my workflow and allowed me to visualize the scene better through more accurate representations.

Just don't over burden one person with too much work

To answer your original question though, animation blueprints should lean more towards the animators specialty than anyone else's, if an animator can't create animation blueprints, they're likely not an experienced animator, and are more likely a modeler who dabbles in key frame animation or something. In my opinion, anyone focusing on animation as a specialty, is already aware that the vast majority of animation stems from how the animations are tied together to create actual usable game animations, which requires at least the blueprint system

hybrid phoenix Oct 28, 2020, 10:00 AM

#

I'd actually say the opposite, I'd consider a programmer who has no clue how to do anim BPs at all to be somewhat questionable. I'd say it's very reasonable for an animator to only handle the DCC-side of things and not be familiar with in-engine implementation

#

There's plenty that know how to do it, primarily on the indie side of things, but I definitely wouldn't expect it to be something every skilled animator can do

wet solstice Oct 28, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

Hi,How can i fix the error?😫

📎 Screenshot_294.png

west lion Oct 28, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

XD

#

Hi,How can i fix the error?😫
@wet solstice learn to read

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

gentle stone Oct 28, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix I'd do a hard disagree there (on the animator side). An animator, just like every person involved in the character/creature pipeline needs to know about parts outside their own process, otherwise you will get incompatibilities. God knows I found this out by inspecting marketplace anim sets and looking to integrate them. Stuff like location keyframes for ik bones for attached weapons. Automatically makes them borderline unusable for any character that is smaller or larger than the default. I wouldn't expect them to be good at everything but in-the-know enough to think about these things and if a conscious decision was made, inform about it

Same thing with a character artist that wants to add mannequin compatibility but adds a bone between hand bone and 2 finger bones and changes bone orientations (therefore no anim sharing with mannequin anims possible). If someone's work becomes useless because technical considerations weren't done I'd say they have some way to go, even if they are very good inside their niche

hybrid phoenix Oct 28, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

Sure, I'd expect some awareness and a basic level of knowledge, but not the ability to actually implement everything themselves adequately. Setting up a full anim BP with gameplay integration's a very different story from knowing how they work at a basic level

gentle stone Oct 28, 2020, 8:58 PM

#

yeah, nothing too advanced, agree with that. But some ik nodes shouldnt confuse them

winged axle Oct 29, 2020, 12:04 AM

#

@hybrid phoenix then what could the animator possibly be responsible for if he never animates? What use is having somebody be a specialist as an animator, and all they can do is set up a skeleton?

#

Or is animation handled entirely different outside of unreal? I thoughg just setting up animations used some degree of blueprint, So if the animator never even does that much, what are they supposed to be doing?

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, I'm just genuinely confused, I thought the core meat of being an animator was using key frames to make a moving animation slide for a certain task

#

And I'm more confused about why the programmer should be more expected to handle that than an animator, programmers have tons of stuff to do already, from ui, ai, pipeline, gameplay events, pretty much everything, programmers end up touching on some level, unless you have so many programmers that they can each just pick one specific spot

buoyant latch Oct 29, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

Most animators I know work with combat designers to proved needs animations for gameplay. The designer plugs in the animations and sets up the character. The animator just creates the animations.

#

Obvs knowing more is great, but in essence... animators animate

#

Smaller projects usually hire fewer people who can do a broader ranger of things, larger projects hire a bunch of specialists in one or two things

royal lintel Oct 29, 2020, 4:48 AM

#

^
Depends if the person has experience with small or large studios. Large studios might have technical animators that do all the AnimBPs. For freelance I'd expect a mix, but not knowing AnimBP doesn't imply anything about general game animation experience. Especially since not everyone use unreal.

#

Should probably understand the basic concept behind an animation state machine though (even if they aren't used to implementing it in whatever tool).

wary idol Oct 29, 2020, 4:51 AM

#

On the project I'm working on our animators are also handling Anim BP stuff but we (programmers) are developing system that control those animations so the animators only need to connect the animations and take care of blending, etc
We usually set up examples of how the system should work with the animations

hybrid phoenix Oct 29, 2020, 9:35 AM

#

Animating is veeeery different from the stuff you do with animations in UE4 @winged axle
And actually, "all they can do is set up a skeleton", tell you what, there's separate people for that, too, people that have specialized almost entirely in rigging

winged axle Oct 29, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

Good to know, Haven't worked outside of unreal yet so I genuinely didn't know

wet solstice Oct 29, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

@west lion i know how to read but i don't know how to connect something to ....

#

😒

west lion Oct 29, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

?

wet solstice Oct 29, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

@west lion https://discordapp.com/channels/187217643009212416/226110055328514048/771005117788061709

flat gazelle Oct 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

But you still didn't read what this channel is for. Try #animation perhaps

tidal moth Oct 29, 2020, 7:58 PM

#

Most animators I know work with combat designers to proved needs animations for gameplay. The designer plugs in the animations and sets up the character. The animator just creates the animations.
this has been my experience as well, having done combat design in the past (apologies for the tag)

#

but I mean yeah T shaped profiles are the best

left basin Oct 29, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

Hey everyone I'm looking for a Senior UE4 SE for Vancouver Canada company that produces live cross-reality entertainment (VR) using real-time visual effects technology and on-stage human performance.

*Must have 5 years Unreal and C++ industry experience.

*This is a salaried, fulltime role that requires the individual to be based in Vancouver or willing to relocate here from other parts of Canada.

Please message me here for details!

royal lintel Oct 29, 2020, 9:53 PM

#

@left basin use #looking-for-talent and read the pinned message, this is the wrong place for recruiting.

left basin Oct 29, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

@royal lintel thanks for the help. I'm new here. Much appreciated

#

Unfortunately I don't have permission to post in "Looking for Talent". Where else can I post here?

analog hearth Oct 29, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

Look at pinned message

winged axle Oct 29, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

How many people here have worked in teams or as part of a team before?

royal lintel Oct 30, 2020, 1:23 AM

#

lots of people

tidal moth Oct 30, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

at least 2

royal lintel Oct 30, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

i'd hazard a guess at there being at least 3

tidal moth Oct 30, 2020, 2:17 AM

#

risky

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

H a z a r d o u s

digital gate Oct 30, 2020, 3:05 PM

#

actually there's 5 of us that have worked on a team before. We're all on the same team though, so I don't you're going to get very many useful perspectives

remote saffron Oct 30, 2020, 3:53 PM

#

there's 7 of us that have worked on a team before. We're all the same pseron though, but with 7 different perspectives

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

I'm asking because I was trying to gauge how many people could benefit from doing it, not as a way to work on a production project, but more as a way to learn the process of working on a team, learn about how everything ties into what they might specialize in, and so on, so more as a learning experience for people who haven't been on a team before than anything

digital gate Oct 30, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

sounds like #looking-for-talent ?

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

Sure, I suppose

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 6:11 PM

#

Well, if there's people who want experience with working on a team and completing projects to improve themselves and their resume/portfolio, I posted the looking for talent. Projects will likely be treated like game jams

lilac walrus Oct 30, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

seems reasonable

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

Hopefully it helps get people ready for the new engine, I'd love to be part of a studio by then

lavish spindle Oct 30, 2020, 10:28 PM

#

Wondering if anyone can give me any insight:
I have been using unreal for about 2 years now, blueprints exclusively for about half of that and then learning c++ (I had never programmed before that). I really enjoy programming and gamedev in general.

Right now, I hate my current job. I have a bachelor's degree in a completely unrelated field to game dev/programming. I know there's no possible way to transition into any kind of programming-related industry right at this moment for me (I have only the training i've found online, and only experience with unreal in terms of programming), but I was wondering what is the best path to getting there eventually?

Do I go to school for computer science or something similar? Do I do some kind of bootcamp/get a certificate? Do I just make a bunch of games for a portfolio and start applying to entry level jobs?

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

All three paths you mentioned are valid paths, but if you truly want to become an engineer in the industry, getting a degree in computer science (or maybe artificial intelligence?) would be the best way to go

#

Bootcamps are valuable, they tend to teach you important basics that fully self-taught people miss. On the other hand, just having a bootcamp as 'proof of competence' is often a red flag, because any idiot can pay for a bootcamp, it doesn't really mean you'll make for a good programmer, and many people that do bootcamps don't actually have any drive to be a programmer

#

Just making your own stuff and applying to entry-level stuff is an option, and works in many departments of gamedev, but programming is the one where it is least likely to be a successful strategy, due to the incredibly large chance you will have taught yourself things very differently from what you would have been taught in i.e. a comp-sci course. Companies don't like to hire programmers without formal education, because the fact that the code works in the game you shipped doesn't mean it's actually any good

#

Getting a degree in something along the lines of comp-sci will show potential employers that you have been taught how computers work, why they work the way they do, and by extension why programming works the way it does. The fundamental understanding of computers you are taught in these courses is incredibly valuable, because it dramatically decreases the odds of you (unknowingly) writing horrible code

#

All that said, most likely any of these will work; if you're a competent and driven programmer, odds are you'll manage to get in somehow, because quite frankly, there's a massive shortage of competent people in almost all fields in the industry

lavish spindle Oct 30, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

that's definitely something i've struggled with learning on my own. it's very hard to look at 5 different ways to code something and determine which is the best because i haven't had any actual education in the field

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

For non game-dev (and excluding web-dev) programming, you will definitely be looking at some form of formal education as requirement in most places

#

If you actually really want to be a well-educated programmer, I'll recommend getting a degree in computer science any day

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

That said, I know several self taught programmers who got jobs in the industry and have done very well

#

One was a highschool football coach in his 40s who taught himself to code because he wanted to work in games and now he’s a senior programmer

#

But a degree is def more of a requirement there than art or design

lavish spindle Oct 30, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

thanks for the feedback guys

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

Any competent Studio/Company will not ask for any formal education especially for programming, degree means literately nothing, it is as valuable as toilet paper when it comes to game dev (not sure about non game dev programmer positions). Main requirement is to have 5+ years of experience, previous work to show, shipped games are a massive plus.

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

Main requirement is to have 5+ years of experience, previous work to show, shipped games are a massive plus.
Welcome to the catch-22 of being unable to get into any position because you're new to the industry

#

The problem isn't that companies don't want self-taught programmers, so much as if there's someone with internships, proper education and alltogether five years of experience across all that, and a self-taught doing it for the same amount of time, from what I've seen most will go with the one with formal education

#

Anyway, I'm not a programmer, nor am I a recruiter/HR person, so take my experience with a big grain of salt

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

same ^ env artist here

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

Nothing is stopping you from working on something by yourself
I got into the industry by making random prototypes, a semi finished game and a few marketplace plugins
All job offers I have been getting are from people randomly finding my work, I got my current position like that as well

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

Large studios as well?

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

Yes, Wargaming was a recent one

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

Larger the studio the more likely they want formal education imo. especially in a junior

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

That for sure

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

Just because they are more like to know what to expect

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

Wargaming has the most hilarious recruiters.

#

I got a full mail in cyrillic. When I replied saying I can't read it I got a new one starting with.
ARE YOU READY TO MOVE TO MINSK!?

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

btw I'm not working for WG right now, that's one of the offers I got

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

Yeah, thought so from the phrasing

#

Well, Glad, ARE YOU?

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

I am not 😦

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

I know. That's okay.

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

Haha

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

I don't think anyone is.

#

Out of all the places with interesting studios, the eastern european ones are pretty low on my list

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Haha I had a recruiter near Siberia almost begging me to come there

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

thinkfish

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

Was like, Na I’m good. Also they were a startup so wayyy to risky

#

They were saying that had trouble getting people to move there for some reason

#

I think they mostly wanted me out of desperation

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

WG offered a position in Australia but I refused it only because it was way too far for me to relocate since I already got a remote position
I wish tho it was closer, played the crap out of their games so working for them would be 👌
Should be ok to talk about that I think since I'm not revealing any details from the email

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

I don't think WG looking for programmers is really anything problematic to share

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

yeah, think so too

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

Didn’t mean that to sound like “oh I’m so good people are begging me” if it came across that way. I wasn’t very good at the time to be clear

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

Is there any major studios in Australia aside from WG?

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

I only know of some smaller ones

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

I am good enough that they are begging me.

#

But I'm not ready to move to Minsk 😦

#

So no job for me.

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

~~Or they were just really desperate~~

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

Hahaha

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

Hey now!

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

Lol

#

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/09/the-australian-gaming-industry-is-much-bigger-than-we-thought/

Kotaku Australia

The Australian Gaming Industry Is Much Bigger Than We Thought

Every so often, figures from the government or industry are published illustrating the size of the Australian games industry. One developer, however, thought the figures seemed a little small. So he started compiling a list of his own. Ashley Ringrose is the director of SMG St...

#

Total of 1300 FTEs

#

Across the entirety of Australia

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

That's not exactly huge.

#

Especially not compared to population

wary idol Oct 30, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

this for example are requirements HiRez is asking for, either degree or equivalent experience

📎 unknown.png

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

QLD’s industry is rather large too. Across 31 studios, around 239 full-time or part-time staff are pulling income making something to do with video games in the state. That’s just over 16%, although the more interesting stat for me is the similarity between NSW and QLD in the total number of studios (40 to 31 respectively).
That's basically a single well-staffed AAA office

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

Yeah, I think we were like 700ish when I left DICE

#

in one office.

#

And that's a 2-3 project studio.

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

Everyone asks for 5yrs experience, two degrees, 8 shipped AAA Titles

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

I wonder how many gamedev FTEs the Guildford area has

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

Ubi montreal has what, 6K by now?

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

@wary idol yea that's pretty standard, but their expectations of what classifies as an indie project or mod are typically much higher than most solo dev's are capable of, I've learned that the hard way a few times

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

3.5 k in 2017 so atleast past 4 or 5 now.

#

Nobody is asking for 5 years experience and 8 shipped AAA titles for entry level positions.

#

That would be an intermediate.

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

No, but they're asking for something halfway acceptable

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:24 PM

#

Haha

#

I mean asking for shipped titles is a bit silly

winged axle Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Most people aren't able to fully produce something like that just due to lack of knowledge in each area, for example I made an ai demo that showcased team formations and did so fairly well, but when shown to the interviewer I got told my level design looked like a child did it, my animations were useless, my scale was too small, my textures were basic marketplace trash, and got told the overall quality was what he'd expect from a person on fiverr ripping him off. Despite it only being an ai showcase

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

The worlds best person could be on a canceled project for like 5 years

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Why is it silly to ask for shipped titles?

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

That interviewer was a twat @winged axle

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

I guess not to ask, but to rule people out because of it

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Yeah, but that person wouldn't have experience with the issues that come with cert, launch, postlaunch, live etc.

hybrid phoenix Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Not a representative experience

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

And sometimes you need a person with that experience.

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

Yea but not as a junior

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

Who is asking for shipped titles for a junior?

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

I’ve saw lots when I was hunting a few years ago

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:27 PM

#

hmm

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:27 PM

#

Dumb it was

#

Even for a mid I wouldn’t expect shipped titles but it would def be a strong consideration

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:27 PM

#

I would

buoyant latch Oct 30, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

They would need experience for sure

#

But wouldn’t rule out for a canceled project situation

flat gazelle Oct 30, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

Not always, but for certain projects you need people who have been through stuff before