#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 41

wild solstice Dec 18, 2017, 2:47 PM

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you probably have something like that too

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:53 PM

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@plucky hatch Yeah, that's not bad if you can get it. I started out lower than that, but increased it pretty steadily. But I didn't get a long-term contract until roughly 3 months after starting

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So I was able to build up a client list and reviews by then

flat gazelle Dec 18, 2017, 2:54 PM

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I've seen that reasoning a few times in this channel so here's a question for you. Those of you who set your rates to minimum wage or just above, are you just starting out?

plucky hatch Dec 18, 2017, 2:54 PM

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Do your employers just trust you're doing work for all the hours they're paying you?

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:54 PM

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On top of my education and general experience level and "WOM" was able to get what I wanted for my long-terms

plucky hatch Dec 18, 2017, 2:54 PM

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I've only done fixed price contracts so far

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:54 PM

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Hmm, depends on the clients I suppose

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But yes, for me, it's trust

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I mean, one of my long terms flew me out to them last month

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We met and hung out/worked for a week together

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They understood what they were getting by the time I left

flat gazelle Dec 18, 2017, 2:55 PM

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Yeah, I always track my hours in case someone wants a detailed breakdown, but that very rarely happens

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:56 PM

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Another long-term, I guess they just liked what they were seeing after a few short-term contracts and then offered me a longer one at a higher rate.

plucky hatch Dec 18, 2017, 2:56 PM

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And do they generally set deadlines for tasks to be completed?

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:56 PM

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Of course

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both contracts are using agile/scrum

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I practically demanded it though

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Because this shit would be unorganized

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Also, I am juggling two full-time gigs

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plus the book

plucky hatch Dec 18, 2017, 2:57 PM

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I've had trouble underestimating the time it takes to complete something

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Do you give them a timeframe or do they set one for you?

kindred mason Dec 18, 2017, 2:57 PM

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Both

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Usually it goes something like this... they want something done, I give them an estimate, they put it on Trello or Hacknplan (I am using each respectively)

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Make sure you break down tasks as much as possible

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Setting up smaller goals is a lot better than one huge one

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Think about it this way

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Would you feel better about yourself if you completed just one task in a week or 10 of them?

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Now, imagine how your client would feel.

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The endgame is really the most important part here

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As long as you can deliver the final product to their satisfaction.

plucky hatch Dec 18, 2017, 3:04 PM

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Thanks for the help everyone. Great advice 🙂

candid bloom Dec 18, 2017, 5:52 PM

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why r people posting unpaid job that much?

ocean harbor Dec 18, 2017, 5:54 PM

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Cause permanent unpaid job is like a dream 😄

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As in you have to live in Narnia to take it

fading yoke Dec 18, 2017, 6:50 PM

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The real, non-troll answer is because there are a lot of people who want to make things but do not have the spare money to invest in other people so that they can make their dreams a reality.

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Companies that have enough money to hire people will spend their resources hiring in either the more traditional internet ways or by using their own personal networks rather than showing up in some random Discord server.

ocean harbor Dec 18, 2017, 7:02 PM

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Don’t want to sound like an ass but this is like looking for people for your student project in a different campus - most likely no-one knows you or your project

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It’s not really about money but what you put on a table

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You have higher chances to start with a mod, get something done, get connection and maybe even build a team

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When I was a student I’ve got into 4 or 5 projects like that

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Nothing really came out of that

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Same time can be spent on game jams and you’ve got something to show at the end

dreamy stratus Dec 19, 2017, 2:57 AM

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ill give anyone $50 who can figure out how to do real time vehicle phyisics using blueprints only

deft trench Dec 19, 2017, 3:39 AM

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@kindred mason Could you dm me

digital gate Dec 19, 2017, 3:39 AM

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blueprints only I mean I know how you could do that, but why would I do that @dreamy stratus

dreamy stratus Dec 19, 2017, 4:34 AM

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@digital gate what do you mean I'll bring up the price to 200$

hybrid phoenix Dec 19, 2017, 9:46 AM

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He probably means he wouldn't do it in blueprint

stray yarrow Dec 19, 2017, 10:42 AM

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(paid) I need quick help setting a testing pipeline from mac to ipad with the free account. The goal is to be able to launch any level of my project on the ipad, and to learn the procedure of setting up a project to work this way! PM me if you know how to do this.
I would post in the job board but I have no permission to do so 😦

hybrid phoenix Dec 19, 2017, 10:49 AM

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@stray yarrow You should PM the bot, instructions are in #more-resources

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That said, what you want is just to click play and have the thing play on your ipad, right?

stray yarrow Dec 19, 2017, 11:49 AM

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yeah, I have been fighting with free ways to get provisioning profile and launching to ipad with no luck. I am able to see ipad, create and test a project with xcode (not an unreal one), but unreal fails at launch due to stuff

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I also figured it's not a big enough thing to have it on the job board

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:11 PM

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Anyone wanna do another Battle Royale game on Rev Share?

📎 GoodConversationAboutJob.jpg

lilac walrus Dec 19, 2017, 4:13 PM

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yeah, nah

stark crow Dec 19, 2017, 4:14 PM

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Lol

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:15 PM

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Oops

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didn't put the other one on here

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one sec

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But, I like the first ones, we get straight to the point

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And we are both cool

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versus the next one...

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📎 NotSoGoodJobConversation.jpg

stark crow Dec 19, 2017, 4:24 PM

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Lmao

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:24 PM

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Two things you'll notice though

flat gazelle Dec 19, 2017, 4:24 PM

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People like the second example make me seriously favor the idea of a public blacklist

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:25 PM

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Technically, both were instigated by others (one was done via a PM, one posted on a public channel for help via PM)

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I came in hot because again, if they want 1on1 consultation (which could take hours) and they don't plan on paying me, then it's best to do it via public channels so they can get others to help (crowdsource)

flat gazelle Dec 19, 2017, 4:26 PM

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Agreed

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:26 PM

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Just like what's going on in #ue4-general

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at this moment

stark crow Dec 19, 2017, 4:26 PM

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Yeah.

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:26 PM

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This is a place for public discussions

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And there are a lot of smart folks out there with differing views

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You only really want/need to go 1on1 if you need something super specific and you're prepared

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I've had some good consultation jobs (General GameDev, Freelancing, Game Project help) in the past. Even one that gave me a mixed (with blatant lies thrown in), but they know going in that this stuff isn't free.

flat gazelle Dec 19, 2017, 4:30 PM

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I don't mind giving specific advice 1 on 1 if I know it's a quick one. "Hey, how would you approach solving this isseue with UVs I have?" is fine. "How do you create this effect?" is not.

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There are times when a question is sensitive and you don't want to ask it in public.

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 4:34 PM

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Oh, I give out plenty of free advice or services

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But there are some subjects that are not just a quick and easy "fix"

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I don't know. My thing is, we have all these damn channels

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And plenty of folk that don't mind jumping into conversations

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No need for 1 on 1 unless you're ready to do a proper session.

hybrid phoenix Dec 19, 2017, 4:47 PM

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^

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That

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I do occasionally instigate PM's myself when I'm helping people just to avoid cluttering chat

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But if you've just got a question, you ask in the server, you don't go PM people you don't know to get free 1-on-1 help

digital gate Dec 19, 2017, 6:29 PM

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you won't help me for free, solving however many problems I have that may or may not be trivial wastes of both our times - you're so greedy

kindred mason Dec 19, 2017, 6:36 PM

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😉

fading yoke Dec 20, 2017, 1:23 AM

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If I were an employer looking for talent in this Discord server I would not want to even talk with VictorBurgos after seeing this

vast lake Dec 20, 2017, 1:24 AM

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This is kind of related to what Placeholder just said. Someone sent me a business message on Artstation yesterday asking me to help build a game in UE4. I could tell by how they spoke that it wasn't going to be paid or actually thought out in any manner, but I just wanted to see how they'd respond once I said I didn't have time for unpaid work. So I asked if it would be paid and got "You earn the money after the game comes out. You end up earning the right amount for all the work you did," as a reply. I expected the usual berating from declining free work but they just vanished.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:24 AM

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Everyone should talk to me if you want the best of the best

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Someone who is open and honest with everything he does

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And put 150% effort into his assigned projects

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:24 AM

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I get it, you're looking for work @kindred mason

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:25 AM

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Always looking for good opportunities

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@vast lake Heh

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:25 AM

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@vast lake I always ask how those kinda projects would payout or determine how they do it.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:25 AM

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I mean, I guess it just depends

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:26 AM

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Never a good method

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:26 AM

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Some people get it

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:26 AM

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Always "it'll just work lol"

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:26 AM

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Others do not

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@digital gate Hmm, you know, tbh, for the 1000+ trash rev-shares, there's gotta be a golden nugget though

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I am here to help everyone out

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Both on the client end and fellow freelancers

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Shit you should not have to deal with at all

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I am just very honest with my business

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I've been doing very well and foresee myself continuing that trend because of it

vast lake Dec 20, 2017, 1:29 AM

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@digital gate I almost never even bother unless the gig shows immense promise. 99% of the time it's always "royalty share or rev share" with a bunch of poorly thought out ideas. Sounds mean, but it is what it is.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:29 AM

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@vast lake You wouldn't do another Battle Royale for Rev-share that only changes out the Airplane for maybe a boat? 😉

vast lake Dec 20, 2017, 1:30 AM

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We D-Day now

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http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/976xn/p01zvbrx.jpg

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:30 AM

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That could work except too many all around that beach entry point

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Unless it only allowed one off randomly, I guess on the beach

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:30 AM

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People pitch royalty projects without a pitch.

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Then get mad at you.

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That's the real problem

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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Not everyone

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The one today wasn't a dick about it

vast lake Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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Yeah, that's what I was expecting yesterday. Got ghosted instead lol

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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I've had MAYBE one

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with a good pitch

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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I had one really good pitch a few months

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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also I didn't say everyone lol

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:31 AM

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Even started working on it

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Until I saw no real results from anyone but me on the team

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I was like... hmmm, I am not making this damn game by myself for whatever % it was...something like 12% I think

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Then business took off after giving that up though

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So everything happens for a reason

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What's funny, are the haters on here

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"If I were an employer I wouldn't hire him"

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lmfao, jelly much?

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:37 AM

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idk between two equally qualified people I can see somebody picking somebody who doesn't come across like you do (or like I sometimes do) over somebody who does. Thing is, text is hard to read tone over. If you've got the backing and can get to the interview then you get to talk. Skill/history should be the primary factors, but I wouldn't brush that off like that.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:40 AM

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Oh, I don't doubt it

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But it would be their loss.

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Also, not many up in this tier imho.

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:41 AM

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equally qualified the very scenario here prevents a loss tho

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:41 AM

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Hmm depends

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:41 AM

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Yeah, I guess. At least around here.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:42 AM

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Qualifications would be based on what though?

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Right around here, exactly.

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:42 AM

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I dunno. Proficiency.

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Its nebulous on purpose

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:42 AM

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I get a ton of offers on here, but only a few are ever decent.

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:42 AM

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Its not meant to be concrete.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:43 AM

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My biggest bang for my buck comes from outside this server anyway.

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:43 AM

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Yeah

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Smaller stuff from around here most of the time.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:43 AM

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And Linkedin, which get them to my website

digital gate Dec 20, 2017, 1:43 AM

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Larger stuff is pretty rare to come by here.

kindred mason Dec 20, 2017, 1:43 AM

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Basically my website is the main source, how people get there is interesting though

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Most are actually typing the damn address in on Google

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I don't get many redirects from other places, which is a shame, because that info would be awesome

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But Google Analytics is either bad, or I just can't read it right

wild solstice Dec 20, 2017, 2:39 AM

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i always wondered if tracking works if you right click and open in new tab, which is how i open 99% of the links (to other sites)

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 2:51 AM

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Guys im putting together a team to create a Video Game. With Unreal Engine 4. Anyone wanna join me?

wild solstice Dec 20, 2017, 3:03 AM

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you have a concept ?

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(for the game)

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only bot can chat in that channel

vivid pivot Dec 20, 2017, 3:08 AM

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...

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sorry 😅

wild solstice Dec 20, 2017, 3:08 AM

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i was wanting to give him some career advice regarding recruiting for an unpaid project

vivid pivot Dec 20, 2017, 3:09 AM

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Please do, forget my comment 😃

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its gone

wild solstice Dec 20, 2017, 3:10 AM

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if you want to attract people to your project you have to show something attractive.. usually it's $$$

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for a unpaid you have to try harder, have a good pitch

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something to make people go "shit i want to make that game"

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something like this for example

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=KirasUtSPmU

YouTube

Nifty Llama Games

The Long Way Home [Dev-log 1] Introduction

In this first Devlog, we give you an introduction to the game and introduce you to our team. The Long Way Home is a story-based indie game created by NiftyLl...

▶ Play video

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it's a devlog but it's almost like a pitch

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:39 AM

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@wild solstice are u gonna help me with my game. Join my team

vague tartan Dec 20, 2017, 3:39 AM

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I can agree. If you have a project that people can fall in love with upon first glance, you stand a better chance to inspire them to work on it even if money isn't in the picture at that moment. What also helps is having a solid team built on communication, direction, and goals that can be achieved.

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:40 AM

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Anyone want to join my team and create the next big game

plucky hatch Dec 20, 2017, 3:41 AM

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@mellow heath Are you being serious?

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:48 AM

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What?

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:49 AM

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he is 😄

plucky hatch Dec 20, 2017, 3:50 AM

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@mellow heath Give some information about what you want to create and what you bring to the project

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Also, why aren't you able to post to #looking-for-talent ?

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:51 AM

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if you are posting on every channel and asking people if they want to join you and create a next big game, you should atleast provide a website with submission forms and detailed information about your project, otherwise not even a single person will consider joining you

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this attitude could only be explained if he's very young

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he did post there 😄

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but no way anyone will look at it sseriously, not even contact info lol

plucky hatch Dec 20, 2017, 3:53 AM

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Oh he did. He said it didn't work before...

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:54 AM

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It worked. And yea im young😂

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:56 AM

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so please understand that most of the people here are at the age that they need to provide for themselfs and others. what good will bring that joining you? try looking from a different perspective

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:56 AM

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Im trying. Thanks

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:56 AM

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its nice that you found something interesting to spend your time, but instead of making a team you should improve your own skills first

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:57 AM

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Im doing that

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:57 AM

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can you tell me which roles are needed for a team to make a game?

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how many programmers you are going to hire? how you will give then revenue share if you make any? do you know that it takes atleast few years to develop something that even looks decent?

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:58 AM

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Programmer, designer, story writer, manager, etc

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I know all the details

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:58 AM

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so if someone joins you with 5 years experience, why they need you? what kind of experience you are bringing to the table

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having an idea will not convince anyone

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jus trying to be realistic

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:59 AM

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I know. And thank you

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:59 AM

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theres a lot of more things to consider

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:59 AM

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Ive got a story

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 3:59 AM

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np, just show atleast some kind of plan

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:59 AM

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And thats why i need help

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I want to make the next GTA. Or something close

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And i know how to use UE4

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:00 AM

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saying i have an idea for the next big game is a bit outrageous. everyone thinks that their game is the biggest inovation while it gets cancelled before even seeing any publicty

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:01 AM

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I know.

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But its a good idea

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:01 AM

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so i would recommend asking a mod to remove your looking for talent and spending a bit more time constructing it so it would be appealing for others

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:01 AM

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Im not gonna tell you now but its good. Ive started creating the map for it. And havent gotten very far

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:02 AM

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now it looks like a joke, sorry dont want to be mean but thats what most of the people will think

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:02 AM

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I know

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:02 AM

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well you dont need to tell me, but if you want to find someone to work with, they will not join you just on the promise

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:02 AM

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How do you remove it?

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:02 AM

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if you know then do it as you should

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DM a mod

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:03 AM

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Join my server.

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:03 AM

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add your email for contact, write description with your main plan, requirements should be a bit more detailed also. saying that you need ue4 experience means nothing

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:03 AM

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https://discord.gg/mqUvbh

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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thanks for the invite, but will have to pass unfortunately

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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I would but i cant because you have to write everything in less than 30 sec

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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write everything into notepad

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check the pinned message there

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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True

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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it says you should have everything beforehand

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:04 AM

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I didnt read it all😂

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I gtg. And thanks for the info

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Cya around

brisk heart Dec 20, 2017, 4:05 AM

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yw, take care 😃

vivid pivot Dec 20, 2017, 4:05 AM

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Good luck @mellow heath, let us know when there is a plan

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:05 AM

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I will cya

vague tartan Dec 20, 2017, 4:23 AM

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I'd at least recommend having more than a discord server for the future lad. A solid plan and possibly even a website can go far in helping you get established. Doesn't take much to get something nice either, (www.sacramentgame.com) is the site we have and we are doing a revision on even that from the format we have right now.

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:27 AM

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Good idea to make a website

vivid pivot Dec 20, 2017, 4:27 AM

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Yeah, the next GTA is very vague. What makes your game unique and exciting?

vast lake Dec 20, 2017, 4:28 AM

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Next GTA? Is that the description of Vironicer's game idea?

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:28 AM

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Ill create a website. But i got no money to make one. Should i use weebly

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No Emory.

vivid pivot Dec 20, 2017, 4:30 AM

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I recommend, https://pages.github.com/, free, simple and git controlled 😉

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 4:31 AM

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Thanks!☺

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Anyone got an android phone?

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Get Rocket Jump from the Amazon Appstore. Check it out - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077H8L51C/ref=apps_sf_sta

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Its a game i made. Its really bad. I have to change the distance u hit the rock

orchid tapir Dec 20, 2017, 6:50 AM

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Im looking for help on getting a project ready. Here is a video from my youtube channel about the project. https://youtu.be/bd1T7mFD538

YouTube

Beefalo Bart

006 Update to my game.

Added the the game of War to the main project https://www.patreon.com/beefalobart https://discord.gg/gVyafpr https://paypal.me/Beefalobart

▶ Play video

mellow heath Dec 20, 2017, 3:11 PM

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nice game!!

night sigil Dec 20, 2017, 4:15 PM

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Hey everyone! The company I've been working with is looking to hire a full or partime unreal dev! We've been building a VR DJing experience and launched early access to the ouclus store last week with an app called TribeVR DJ School- we were featured on the oculus blog and you can read more about it and purchase it here - https://www.oculus.com/blog/immersive-music-introducing-three-new-apps-on-the-oculus-platform-plus-some-greatest-hits/

The team is four of us right now, and we're open to remote or onsite developers (we're based in San Francisco). We also recently were accepted into a VR/Blockchain accelerator that starts in mid Febreuary, so if you do live in the Bay or are interested in moving here, you'd be working alongside a lot of other companies in the VR and crypto spaces, which could be a lot of fun.

Please email me at Eric at TribeVR.io if you or anyone you know is interested!

🙇

Immersive Music: Introducing Three New Apps on the Oculus Platform, Plus Some Greatest Hits

Today, we’re excited to highlight three new music experiences on the Oculus Platform and take a look back at some of our sonic favorites.

lilac walrus Dec 20, 2017, 4:17 PM

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@night sigil - check out the job boards at the bottom of the channel list

night sigil Dec 20, 2017, 4:18 PM

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ah thank you!

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looks like I can't post in that channel for some reason

lilac walrus Dec 20, 2017, 4:20 PM

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https://snag.gy/owGB9J.jpg

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dunno why people always seem to miss that

night sigil Dec 20, 2017, 4:21 PM

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cool- thnx and apologies!

lilac walrus Dec 20, 2017, 4:22 PM

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no worries

night sigil Dec 20, 2017, 4:29 PM

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Cool- I posted in the jobs channel. I just wanted to add that the bot would only let me specify remote or onsite, or contract vs permanent- but there's actually flexibility there, so remember that when looking through the positing 😃 That's the problems with rigid bots as opposed to flexible humans 😃

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:25 AM

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@brisk heart @vivid pivot hey guys me and my team came up with this really good game idea. We got all the mission ideas. Map layout. Names. Everything!!

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 4:32 AM

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Got more information for us this time? Instead of "cool idea" ? 😉 website/ design document?

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:35 AM

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Yea i do

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I dont want to share it on this chat. People might take it

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Ill be creating a website, insta for it, Twitter, etc.

fading yoke Dec 22, 2017, 4:38 AM

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Is it worth posting in that #looking-for-talent channel if you're just trying to find someone to do a portfolio project or a game jam thing together?

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:38 AM

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I have a team working together to make the game.

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4 people for exact. Im the game developer, designer. My one friend is the story writer. My other friend is making assets to use in Ue4 with Blender. And my last friend is making all the details, map layout. Etc

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 4:41 AM

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I thought your idea was a new GTA game with some special twist. 4 people seems small

fading yoke Dec 22, 2017, 4:41 AM

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@mellow heath Usually when people post stuff like that they include either screenshots or a link to a document with a bunch of details and info so that their ideas are taken more seriously.

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:41 AM

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Its like gta. Im not saying anymore details. But it takes place in 1337

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Im talking to gracegames. But thanks

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 4:42 AM

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you know ideas are mostly worthless, its about the creation of the idea

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:42 AM

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The creation has started

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 4:42 AM

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I'm not convinced yet but good luck anyway 😃

mellow heath Dec 22, 2017, 4:42 AM

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I gtg. Ill talk to ya later. Post to website on here once i make it

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Cya

#

Wait

brisk heart Dec 22, 2017, 4:48 AM

#

will be curious when you have smth, saying its a good idea is almost nothing like someone stated above, but ye good luck 😃

plucky hatch Dec 22, 2017, 4:55 AM

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/728/458/4a1.jpg

untold granite Dec 22, 2017, 8:18 AM

#

Just going to say that posting an ad like this won't really get you any responses. No offense intended, however, if you're posting something unpaid, you should show something you're working on, and at the very, very, very least be a little more precise at what you're looking for 😛 (for example: tutoring, working on a project + are you looking for programmers, moddelers, or heck, even idea people (even if it's virtually everything, I'd reccomend making it a smaller list, and rethinking whether you should actually be asking literally every skill ^^ Please don't let this demotivate you/anyone. Just my 2 cents)

📎 image.png

plucky hatch Dec 22, 2017, 9:12 AM

#

@untold granite I think the person should be offended and learn that posting something like this won't do anything.
I saw this and was like ohkay Unpaid, but what are you looking for? what is your project? What is your plan for the project? Is it Hobby or something for the market/kickstarter? Progress? Current team? Will it be paid in the future or you just want to work someone on your game for free? So many questions and I have not one single clue on should I even respond to this and waste my time!

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 9:14 AM

#

Kinda got the same feeling, but really like how @untold granite put it in words 😃

untold granite Dec 22, 2017, 10:43 AM

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Hm, fair enough - I hate posting negative things though 😛 I've personally given up on contract-based work because of way too many bad experiences, but try to point out a few things I see to try to help people improve their posts 😃

torn sparrow Dec 22, 2017, 11:12 AM

#

dear god @untold granite is that a real ad? lol

untold granite Dec 22, 2017, 11:12 AM

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Yep

torn sparrow Dec 22, 2017, 11:12 AM

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😱

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 11:13 AM

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Still up for grabs if you want it 😉

torn sparrow Dec 22, 2017, 11:17 AM

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think i'll pass 😛

urban merlin Dec 22, 2017, 3:07 PM

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I’m looking for a person who can make items I a game. I need weapons. Armor. Adversaries and playable characters. Pay can be negotiated. Pm me for more details

vivid pivot Dec 22, 2017, 3:12 PM

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@urban merlin A post in the #looking-for-talent might also be a good idea 😃

plucky hatch Dec 22, 2017, 3:31 PM

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@HowToCompute 1+1

untold granite Dec 22, 2017, 3:44 PM

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= 2 😉

urban merlin Dec 22, 2017, 3:59 PM

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@GracesGames#7398 I don’t know how to post in that channel

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Which is why I posted here lol

kindred mason Dec 22, 2017, 4:00 PM

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@urban merlin Read pinned

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📎 unknown.png

urban merlin Dec 22, 2017, 4:02 PM

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Awesome thank you

twilit kiln Dec 22, 2017, 6:07 PM

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Does anyone know why I can't post in the looking for talent channel?

kindred mason Dec 22, 2017, 6:21 PM

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@twilit kiln look at pinned

stark crow Dec 22, 2017, 6:32 PM

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This is a reoccurring issue. Lmao

kindred mason Dec 22, 2017, 6:33 PM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

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I posted it two msgs back 😉

twilit kiln Dec 22, 2017, 6:58 PM

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#noobfail

celest crow Dec 22, 2017, 10:52 PM

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Hey guys this is problably a very stupid question but does any of u know how steam games are showcased? like i was wondering what if randomly uploaded a steam game and it passed all the steam greenlight stuff (ps i dont know if steam greenlight is still used bwe) would the game get some attention just from that ? im asking this because for indie development i think everyone knows its rly hard to get attention so i wanted to know if just by publishing the game on steam i would get some fine attention, btw i know that if the game is free its problably gonna get alot of attention anyway. im not english so plz ignore my errors .

#

sry wrong chat

brisk heart Dec 22, 2017, 11:06 PM

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currently you only need to pay 100$ and despite your game quality it will be added to the steam. from what i have seen only games that get a massive boost of players are showcased

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if you only sell few coppies of the game, i doubt that it will ever get on the front page. it mainly showcases what is popular so steam would get more sales

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oh i just noticed you asked the same question on multiply channels, so you probably know the answer already

fickle hatch Dec 23, 2017, 12:03 AM

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You have to get through a certain threshold I think for steam to start considering your game for automatic promotion on front page and so on

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I'm not 100% sure and I'm not sure anyone would share exact mechanics of that

lilac walrus Dec 23, 2017, 12:16 AM

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front page promotion to my knowledge is manually curated

fickle hatch Dec 23, 2017, 12:18 AM

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I think it's manually reviewed automatically suggested, with some exceptions if you partner with Valve as a publisher

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But not full manual

ocean harbor Dec 23, 2017, 12:22 AM

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It’s not the same for all users either

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Often go to steam from web to see new stuff, instead of using app

plucky hatch Dec 23, 2017, 1:22 AM

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How about to let ppl post in the looking for talent and looking for job channels

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but have the bot remove the messages?

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and send them private message about how to set up an ad

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nobody would ask about how to post there

plucky hatch Dec 23, 2017, 6:59 PM

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looking for a coder

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a programmer will not do?

digital gate Dec 23, 2017, 7:17 PM

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nah, has to be a scripter

velvet wren Dec 24, 2017, 4:19 AM

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how can i swap weapons in ue4 and also need to know how to make reload animations work any tutors out there

edgy orchid Dec 24, 2017, 4:54 AM

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Lhh Flexin on these hoes in the work place

spice dagger Dec 24, 2017, 5:01 AM

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@edgy orchid Please do not spam.

orchid tapir Dec 24, 2017, 5:02 AM

#

@velvet wren I have a short tutorial series Im doing on weapons swapping if you want to check it out. https://youtu.be/4TPuA93i3Uo

YouTube

Beefalo Bart

Weapon Tutorial Intro and Prep Work.

Join me anytime on Discord and get the files for the project in this video. https://www.patreon.com/beefalobart https://discord.gg/gVyafpr https://paypal.me/...

▶ Play video

edgy orchid Dec 24, 2017, 5:05 AM

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@spice dagger Hey can u tell @orchid tapir to unblock me its really not fair or can u just ban him thanks

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hes a complete moron

spice dagger Dec 24, 2017, 5:06 AM

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And why on earth would i do that?

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You were the one spamming him.

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From my perspective i should ban you...??

edgy orchid Dec 24, 2017, 5:11 AM

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no

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we have a long history trust me haha

spice dagger Dec 24, 2017, 5:12 AM

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How can i trust you, i dont know you?

edgy orchid Dec 24, 2017, 5:12 AM

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high as a kite thats how buddy

spice dagger Dec 24, 2017, 5:12 AM

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Whatever the case is, do not spam another member of the server please.

edgy orchid Dec 24, 2017, 5:13 AM

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Understood Will not happen again I asure you captain

plucky hatch Dec 24, 2017, 5:57 AM

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Should probably put a lil information about what genre it is and what it plays like

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Do you have any video or screenshots of gameplay?

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Also, this screenshot isn't really doing or showing anything: https://bloodshedgame.weebly.com/uploads/8/5/8/7/85876660/published/sketch-4-ocean.png?1514072521

untold granite Dec 24, 2017, 10:04 AM

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Almost wants to write a whole 2k character (the discord limit) rant about which chanel to use when & how + how to write (an in my opinion) proper job ad :P

brave surge Dec 24, 2017, 12:07 PM

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Hello everyone, I started a small indie development group. We're all beginners so we can learn together. Anyone interested? You could just DM me if so.

steel creek Dec 24, 2017, 2:22 PM

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So like are the last two jobs in looking for talent somebody's homework because they're almost exactly the same. XD

brave surge Dec 24, 2017, 2:24 PM

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Ha.

brave surge Dec 24, 2017, 2:46 PM

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Hm?

tired pine Dec 24, 2017, 2:46 PM

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Dm

lilac walrus Dec 24, 2017, 3:03 PM

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aha, yeah, those last two definitely look like someone's homework assignment

mellow heath Dec 24, 2017, 3:08 PM

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@plucky hatch did u go to my website and check it out.

plucky hatch Dec 24, 2017, 3:13 PM

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Who's working on christmass?

brave surge Dec 24, 2017, 3:24 PM

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Yeh my teacher wants me to make homework at the weekend in a vacation, sounds fair

untold granite Dec 24, 2017, 3:27 PM

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I guess I'll have to answer marketplace support requests if that counts as work 🤔

plucky hatch Dec 25, 2017, 2:35 AM

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@mellow heath Yes I checked out your website. You shouldn't keep posting your website here

opal cloak Dec 25, 2017, 11:49 AM

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@orchid tapir please look at #looking-for-talent to post this ad properly.

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@mellow heath please post a ad properly in #looking-for-talent

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@brave surge please post your ad properly in #looking-for-talent

brave surge Dec 25, 2017, 11:52 AM

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Sorry

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I'm new

hybrid phoenix Dec 25, 2017, 12:36 PM

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Can one of the moderators possibly adress @mellow heath's constant tagging and bugging people?

orchid tapir Dec 25, 2017, 1:51 PM

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@opal cloak if #looking-for-talent was within my permission level I would have posted it there.

opal cloak Dec 25, 2017, 1:52 PM

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Check the pinned messages there.

mellow heath Dec 25, 2017, 3:30 PM

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Sorry but I do not bug anyone her. Or tag anyone.

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@hybrid phoenix I dont bug anyone on this chat. Im barely on.

hybrid phoenix Dec 25, 2017, 3:32 PM

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In the past days I've seen you arbitrarily tagging people here multiple times

digital gate Dec 25, 2017, 3:50 PM

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what's the goal here, to get people interested in working with you? Looks like you're designing a monetization model and planning to make a game around that. I know mobile isn't the same as desktop but I've got no passion for that kind of thing. Also, interesting how you share estimates of how much everybody helped and their revenue share - those don't match up. Probably just out of sync but it still isn't a good look. Good luck though.

brisk heart Dec 25, 2017, 3:52 PM

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whats his website? i didnt see before it got deleted

lilac walrus Dec 25, 2017, 3:52 PM

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@mellow heath - you realise Discord has a search function, right?

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you may not have been tagging that many people, but you have been spamming a lot

digital gate Dec 25, 2017, 3:57 PM

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@brisk heart check DMs

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:21 AM

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He is obviously an beginner, why not message him and offer some advice on how to do all those things you described.

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:23 AM

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Hm, I guess I could start a copy and paste document and DM it to like everyone - I don't want to be in that situation where people contantly come to me for help though (which is what happened when I previously did that). Anyway, I guess I could start a dialogue with him 🤔 I'm not trying to demotivate anyone btw, it's just that I keep seeing these ads which look like they aren't properly thought out 🤔 I gotta go now, but I guess I'll try that when I get a little time to spare 😃 Anyway, please don't feel demotivated by my last 2 messages, I'm sure it'll be a great game when you finish it, it's just that there are.....better ways to get people involved with your project 😃

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:26 AM

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You have to start somewhere and he is obviously trying to do so. I believe that if you are going to complain or poke holes in something where you have the ability to help, then help, otherwise you shouldnt complain. Sounds an bit harsh but seriously, you didnt even tag him in your message so your comment above helped no one.

#

Nothing wrong with DMing an prewritten helpful blurb about an issue, then as you pointed out it becomes an issue of whether or not you want to be that person known for being helpful

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The community becomes better as an whole if people with the ability to help do so.

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Thats why this place exists after all.

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:29 AM

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Fair enough - I'll DM him later, but I hate it when I have to literally reply to 30+ DMs every hour or so with people asking me to do their work, so I'm fine with helping, but I don't want to be overloaded. What my goal was was to point out a few issues in posting an ad like this, which may help others improve

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True - sorry for the above then - I'll remove the message and shoot a DM

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:30 AM

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Im not upset or anything about what your post is, only pointing out that its more helpful to everyone involved if you actually help 😃

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I agree that it could have been done way better

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It seems obvious that he needs guidance on that issue

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And since you went to the trouble of pointing it out, that effort would have been better directed to helping him.

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Just some food for thought is all.

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:32 AM

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Yeah, I get that, but I guess my message was a little rude. My issue is that every beginner seems to want to start their own game, and that most of those end up being a huge pain for the people involved because they don't have the project management experience, and don't always have a lot of skills themselves. And I like helping people, it's just that I simply can't direct help literally everyone, which is why I thought it would make sense to port a few of the caveats in a port like that which often occurs in #looking-for-talent, but I didn't see the other side to posting the above. Sorry about that 😃

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:33 AM

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I might get an few example job listings added to the #more-resources channel. That way you could then just point them to #more-resources instead of repeating yourself.

#

Would that be an better solution?

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:34 AM

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I guess that could work - but don't feel obliged to

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:35 AM

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I started this discourse and id like to see an healthy end to it for everyone 😃

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Because your point is very valid

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:37 AM

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(It's mainly just my bad experience though - I fell for an ad or two like this when I started, and let me tell you that as beginner, being in a horribly organized project where the person heading it up is an idea guy, or simply someone with very little experience, especially in project managing, can be hell. I shouldn't let this affect me in here, so sorry about that)

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:37 AM

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I think with anyone starting out remote work like that is part of the learning experience lol

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 8:38 AM

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Yeah - true 😛 I did learn from that experience though ^^

spice dagger Dec 26, 2017, 8:39 AM

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Then it was an good one 😃 lol

fickle hatch Dec 26, 2017, 8:46 AM

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Reminds me of one experience from my past

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"We're doing this cool project" - Here's my thing - "We don't like it but we'll take you as a programmer" - What do you need? - <radio silence>

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 10:06 AM

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Hng - the discord 2k character limit got me while writing the DM 😛

vivid pivot Dec 26, 2017, 10:10 AM

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Time for Discord plugins 😉

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 10:11 AM

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😉

plucky hatch Dec 26, 2017, 3:27 PM

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guys anyone can do work for me for money 😄

drowsy tundra Dec 26, 2017, 3:30 PM

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Post in #looking-for-talent, look at the pinned message for instructions

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:28 PM

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i'm not sure how to factor in render time when i have to come up with a price

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wasn't an issue until my last project, when the client suddenly wanted 4k renders and more images then what was initially agreed

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.. i did not optimize the scene because it was supposed to be 5 different renders only.. so renders took 5-6hrs per 4k image

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the thing is i cant just charge per hour of rendering, because if the scene was optimized it could easily taken 1/3 the time

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and if i had better hardware then render times would be shorter.. but if i charge per hour of rendering i dont even want the render times to be short

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but at the same time, i can't work on something else during rendering

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:36 PM

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You could

#

in another instance of UE4

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You're not really doing much while it's rendering, I wouldn't really consider that a "payable action"

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But I am sure some may

dense heath Dec 26, 2017, 4:37 PM

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if his pc is dying there is not much doing something else

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:37 PM

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He needs to upgrade then

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With the money he is making

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That's his problem, not the client's

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Render while you're sleeping

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If it's that big of an issue

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:38 PM

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i did render over a couple of nights

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:38 PM

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Yeah, that's what I would do

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It's not your client's fault that you have a poopie PC

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:39 PM

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but if i had a better pc i'd still need to render overnight

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:39 PM

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The client expects that you have a decent rig to fulfill your obligations

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Meh, you don't know that until you upgrade 😉

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:39 PM

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maybe insted of 5hrs it would be like 3hrs of rendering

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:39 PM

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What are your specs?

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This is just my opinion on the matter, if a contractor ever told me that he wanted to bill me hours because he has a poopie PC and it take he or she hours to render out scenes, I'd be like.. next contractor, thanks for your time.

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That or I would just do it myself.

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Not really hard to hit Build

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But who knows, maybe they'll be the complete opposite, and be like: here's some free 💰

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50/50 chance

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:43 PM

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yeah, when the client wanted 20+ renders i went and rendered it on their office pcs... the initial contract was for 5 1080 renders which i could easily do overnight

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(btw project was in blender not ue4)

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:43 PM

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Ah, well...wtf

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You gotta be specific...

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:43 PM

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even if i had top of the line pc i still would waste a few days rendering.. so you have to factor that somehow

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:43 PM

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This is a UE4 server, so the assumption was this was in UE4 😉

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:44 PM

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problem was the client changed parameters mid point.. if i knew that upfront i'd tell the client he needs to pay for a render farm

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:44 PM

#

Anyway, so you're just literally talking about a render, not building lighting

#

You can tap into render farms

#

Well, so, this is what you should have done

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As soon as the client changed his mind in the middle of it, you proposed a new contract with an increased price

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Ensuring that you got paid for the hours already worked

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:46 PM

#

that was a lesson learned during that project

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:46 PM

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If they decline, whatever, your choice to continue working.

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:46 PM

#

amongs a bunch of other things

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:46 PM

#

But, more likely than not, they would understand that a new contract would be needed.

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Just make sure that any and all changes that you know will cost you more time/effort are documented

#

TBH, you should suggest they build out a render farm on their servers

#

If it's something that is going to happen a lot

#

But even still, I would be very careful about how much you charge additionally

#

You aren't doing crap while you're rendering

#

The amount of energy output on a render is a few dollars if that

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(for electricity consumption)

#

But you could definitely charge a premium just because it's a higher res

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:49 PM

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well render farms dont charge you for electricity only

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:49 PM

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Well, if they established one, it would be free for you 100%

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Or you could use whatever other PCs you had in your house

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and created your own

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:50 PM

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i need to make a stipulation that would make the client go for a render farm

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:50 PM

#

Same thing I do for Lighting builds in UE4

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I boot up all my swarm agents and let it go to town

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:50 PM

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and that i get covered should the client want additional renders , etc

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:50 PM

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Right, what you need to do

#

Is establish a baseline

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:51 PM

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i mean they hold so tight to my initial quote, but changed EVERY single aspect/parameter of their side of the contract

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:51 PM

#

NOt sure how many of these types of jobs you've gotten like this

#

But get an average

#

TBH, I don't do Blender renders. So I'm not the right person to ask.

#

But I would assume you could figure out how much more "effort" it takes between resolutions

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:52 PM

#

i guess so far i've been lucky and only had decent clients, where written contracts werent needed (local freelance jobs, for online i always have written contract)

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 4:52 PM

#

hmmm

#

You should always have a written contract imho

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 4:55 PM

#

the job was to take 100s of cad files and make a model of a mining truck out of it.. make additional details etc, materials.. the renders were just like an extra.. but later became the main thing as the guy wanted it for print etc

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still.. i should charge something if the client makes me waste time

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for example.. when half of the renders were done they figured they gave me the old logo

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.. was about 5mins of work for me to change it.. but had to re-render bunch of stuff so the whole day got wasted by that

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:01 PM

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I don't know, it's tough.

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I can see it from both point of views.

#

But I regularly update my PC if I feel it is not meeting today's standards

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:02 PM

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i dont think it's possible to upgrade to such a standard that rendering would be a non issue

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:02 PM

#

Hmm

#

Have you tried Threadripper?

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:02 PM

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sure, instead of 2hrs you wait only 1

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:02 PM

#

Or x9?

#

Hmm nah

#

I am talking about actually spending some money here

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1950x

#

or 7900x

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:03 PM

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sure, then i would have to charge a bit more

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:04 PM

#

?

#

What does updating your PC have anything to do with your rate?

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You use the money you make to update and keep current

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So you can do your jobs faster and get more

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:05 PM

#

majority of my work is not spent rendering

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and that rendering can be only marginally improved

#

by upgrading a single pc

#

i would need to buy a decent render farm to have any impact

#

..let me make a parallel... lets say you get contracted to make a engine mod to ue4

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idk how long it takes on your machine to compile ue4 from source

#

but lets say client makes mistakes/requests/whatever reason you have to recompile from source a couple of times

#

and in the end you might have spent like 30hrs compiling

#

you still want to factor those hours in right ?

#

maybe not your standard 70$/h fee

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

@wild solstice What about a flat rate for when you render? It wouldn't work for the engine example, but it'd make sense. The client wouldn't be disadvantaged by unoptimized scenes, but you still get recouped for the time you're spending rendering...kind of

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:29 PM

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i'm not talking charging for every minute of compile/render time.. but when things get out of the expected and reasonable norm

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

(Or give someone a given number of "rendering points" per hour they pay you, which they can then use for renders/pay more of they need more) Just my 2 cents though - and it's probably a horrible idea 😛

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:32 PM

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something like a flat rate for the EXTRA idle time / tying up my pc that's caused by the client, that was not expected or predicted and is outside of reasonable norms

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:33 PM

#

Hm - those are the annoying costs as you don't want to scare the client away either I'd suppose 🤔

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:33 PM

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yeah, which is why i came here for advice, because i'm bad with words like that

#

something that i can include in my contracts that should cover my ass for the unexpected

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like truckers have, if they get hold up on customs or it takes a day longer to load the cargo

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they get paid for their idle time

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if it's outside some norm

#

and i'm not talking about hey can you make an additional render when you agreed upon 10

#

more like hey we forgot to send you the right logo can you re-render everything again

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:37 PM

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I guess fine print stating that: If there are any changes after the product has been approved (or delivered), you may be charged for additional work (at the usual hourly rate) and extra render time ($1/hr) that may be incurred due to this change (or something like that - I'm no lawyer)

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:37 PM

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yeah something like that

#

that's a good start i guess, i'll try to rework it a bit

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:37 PM

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That'd cover your a$$ if there are any last minute changes once you've delivered/asked for approval, and would cover any extra work (changing/cleaning/etc) + any render time (power/time you can''t use your comuter/etc.)

#

You would need to track the time spent on renders with a pretty high accuracy though, and may want to base the render times on power usage + inconvenience caused

#

And/or add a small clause which states that if the client wants the renders rushed (meaning you may not be able to overnight (them all)), an additional fee + a higher rate would be used

#

Just my 2 cents from reading half of the above, hope it helps and sorry if any of that doesn't make sense/is stupid/etc. 😃

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:40 PM

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it was actually of help

#

i'm not sure about the accurate tracking of times though, because it's highly dependant on too many factors

#

i might expect the render times to be about 3-10hrs at the start of the project, and i wont fuss about if they turn out to be 12 or even 15hrs.. but i will if they decide to change somethign after the fact or in the middle and mess up my schedule/workflow

#

something like a fee per work day wasted

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:46 PM

#

Do these things actually get a hourly rate though?

#

I should ask my current client, they are a pretty decent sized production company, they do renders, but I am like 99% sure they do it at a set price

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:47 PM

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mostly i'm paid per project

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

Right, so all this hourly talk is wasted

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

Yeah - that was what I suggested before - no clue what people do though

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

The end result is what matters here

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

so i need to calculate the price in advance and not put myself in a corner

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

Hmm

#

Again, you aren't doing shit

#

while they are rendering

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

sometimes the client wants hourly contract.. which is kinda meh

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

So, imho, don't get too greedy

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

But it is power/etc. used. Which is why I'd only recoup power used + a little bit for the inconvenience

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

a few dollars

#

let's be real here

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:48 PM

#

i mean it's better for me ultimately.. but they always get more if it's per project

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

Anyway, if rendering is a huge issue, I'd really reccomend building a second rig, even if it isn't too powerful

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

I don't know, I have been trying to stop doing hourly

#

It's to everyone's benefit imho

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

If you use GPU rendering, I'd probably get a cheap cpu/mobo + a vega card + a pretty efficient PSU, I'd say you would spend 800-900 usd at the most, but would save you a ton of hassle

kindred mason Dec 26, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

Set a price, roll with it.

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

if i wanted to cut down render times i would change the render engine

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:50 PM

#

(I never do anything on an hourly basis myself btw - it's a huge pain to track time, especially if you can't just work for a given time and constantly do other things + it means that if I need to acquire new knowledge to do a job, I don't have to deal with having to track how much I spend learning/trying it on the project/etc.)

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:50 PM

#

evee will be realtiem and almost as good as cycles

#

or take it into ue4.. which i'm doing for the next project

#

since they said they wanted 5mins of animation

#

... i'm comfortable doing hourly if i can work on site with the client

#

otherwise i suggest per project

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:53 PM

#

Suppose you'd probably do a sequencer export then right? (never done anything rendering UE4) I guess at least that's pretty fast

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:53 PM

#

that's the idea, but as a bonus i want to make an interactive app in the end even though they didnt ask for it

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:53 PM

#

Yeah - that seems like a pretty nice rule of thumb, as that means that the employer can trust that you will be honest with your hours/not work at a slow rate

#

Nice - that's what I love about UE4, it's great to quickly create multiple final results. Though ue4 mobile aps sometimes leave things to be desired, I guess a non-game oriented thing is pretty good with UE4 as it's most likely running on high-end hardware + storage won't be a huge issue. Anyway, that's getting off-topic ^^

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:57 PM

#

yeah, i'm using ue4 in 'techvis'

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 5:59 PM

#

[Really, really offf-topic] but have you taken a look at that new-ish look through material on the MP yet? Looks pretty cool, and it seems like something "techvis" would use 😃

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 5:59 PM

#

i've seen the client use the end product (video render) and thought this might be better as an interactive app

#

they were trying to pinpoint the location something moves on the truck while doing a presentation to potential customers

#

could be just a keypress to play the animation

#

and they get to control the camera.. so they can just present what the customers ask them about

#

.. i've seen some car manufacturers starting to play with u4 for their car demos

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 6:01 PM

#

Guess the MacLaren (or whatever it was) demo inspired others 😉 I do like that side of UE4 though, I'd never have thought people could use a game engine in such ways

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 6:02 PM

#

pbr shading model is getting close enough in quality

#

it's a faster workflow and cuts on iteration time

#

specially in archvis

#

and is way cooler for end customer to have something interactive then prerendered

untold granite Dec 26, 2017, 6:07 PM

#

Hm, yeah, well good luck with figuring this thing out 😃 I gotta go, so have a good day 👋

wild solstice Dec 26, 2017, 6:07 PM

#

thanks, you too

shut tree Dec 26, 2017, 6:56 PM

#

high poly sequencer render looks great 😛

plucky hatch Dec 27, 2017, 10:38 AM

#

@untold granite 512th fibonacci number

#

now you gona be busy for a while kappa

untold granite Dec 27, 2017, 5:50 PM

#

kappa

plucky hatch Dec 27, 2017, 7:58 PM

#

hey is there a way to rmove my add now that I found someone for the contract?

kindred mason Dec 27, 2017, 7:59 PM

#

@plucky hatch ping a <@&213101288538374145>

#

like that or directly /shrug

plucky hatch Dec 27, 2017, 8:01 PM

#

thx vic

#

always helpfull

#

<@&213101288538374145> I have filled the position for the previous job I posted in Looking For Talent. plz remove :p

pastel estuary Dec 27, 2017, 8:05 PM

#

cant find it, under which name might I need to look? or did another mod already delete it? :p

granite brook Dec 27, 2017, 8:06 PM

#

cough

pastel estuary Dec 27, 2017, 8:06 PM

#

hehe

kindred mason Dec 27, 2017, 8:08 PM

#

hmm

#

you should have your own private channel

#

and just state if you take taken action on a @mod ping

#

if you don't already

granite brook Dec 27, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

:D It's not like we didn't

kindred mason Dec 27, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

Oh, so @pastel estuary is just blind 😉

granite brook Dec 27, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

Na, I simply didn't post it cause I was eating

kindred mason Dec 27, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

oh, food

#

gets the best of us

pastel estuary Dec 27, 2017, 8:11 PM

#

food > anything else.

digital gate Dec 28, 2017, 12:07 AM

#

maybe y'all can just do a reaction to the requesting message to indicate you've done the action. Sure a side channel would be useful for other things, but that'd end up being in the most used reactions and easily accessed.

granite brook Dec 28, 2017, 10:38 AM

#

Most people probably forget about their post after a while

#

I should really just code a job bot as a second bot and let people test it.
Sadly I don't have the rights to add it or modify Nick's bot :/

stray yarrow Dec 28, 2017, 7:21 PM

#

yo guys, looking for a skilled 3d artist for urgent work. Much many money for the time. Should I post a job offering?

kindred mason Dec 28, 2017, 7:36 PM

#

yes

stray yarrow Dec 28, 2017, 7:43 PM

#

!help

plucky hatch Dec 28, 2017, 7:43 PM

#

@stray yarrow, Sent you a DM with information.

stone cedar Dec 28, 2017, 7:58 PM

#

Wasup @stray yarrow watcha need

stray yarrow Dec 28, 2017, 8:39 PM

#

thanks for reaching out slapunas

stone cedar Dec 28, 2017, 8:43 PM

#

np

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:36 AM

#

@stray yarrow check out the last artist in lfw

#

He is super fast

#

@granite brook why not make a simple web page and submit jobs from there.

#

Discord also has OAuth2 support so confirming users should be easy.

stray yarrow Dec 29, 2017, 11:39 AM

#

thanks azarus

granite brook Dec 29, 2017, 11:43 AM

#

@plucky hatch That's just an additional thing

#

I would simply create a Database that the bot writes into.
That allows easy sorting and auto deleting of old posts

#

Done that before for a serverList

#

So we could get the ServerList from the MasterServer for UE4 games in our Discord

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:44 AM

#

You can read the time stamp of each message and remove them

granite brook Dec 29, 2017, 11:44 AM

#

Which message exactly

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:45 AM

#

I mean the job postings?

granite brook Dec 29, 2017, 11:45 AM

#

How I imagined it was that users post in a job-bot channel or directly to the bot.
Job-Bot channel has one post with instructions and new messages get auto deleted by the bot (so it stays empty and clean)
Successful commands towards the bot will result a private messages

#

So if you e.g. do
/joblist paid

#

You get a pm with all paid jobs that are not older than 1-2 weeks

#

Obviously that can be extended

#

Bot could even notify job posters that their listing has expired

#

I mean, there is a lot of stuff we could do...

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 12:07 PM

#

Or just make a website 🤐

#

And email thrm

#

We're almost there with ideas anyways

#

And theres nothibg available in the unrealslackers website

#

And it has pretty high visitor count

#

And pretty much i see more ue4 related job listings on upwork than here :x

granite brook Dec 29, 2017, 4:38 PM

#

The job board is for people that use Discord

#

Why would I create a website, outside of Discord

#

:D that makes no sense

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

Well mostly people use the UE4 forums but then they have to sign up. Manage their posts and so on. Little but still a hassle as far as i heard. At least some simple page that displays the job posts and channel stats maybe even conversations would be good. I think ppl dont even know that theres anything in this descord where they can post jobs.
I maybe wrong

#

I talked to a couple of people who where looking for ue4 devs and they didnt even know that this channel exists neither the job posting channels on discord

#

"Get help • Share your work • Socialize
All skill levels & backgrounds welcome "

#

Thats all it says on the front page.

#

I could create that script for you btw. I have no plans for new years eve anyways.

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:09 PM

#

Hmm, running low on my budget and need a 3d artist for low poly prop creation

#

Do you think it would interest artists if the compensation was rev share?

kindred mason Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

@plucky hatch you already check MP?

#

Marketplace

#

tons of cheap stuff

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:29 PM

#

Ahh thought it was frowned upon to use a ton of assets that aren’t yours

#

I’m probably wrong I just thought that

kindred mason Dec 29, 2017, 11:45 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

nothing saying you can't modify them?

plucky hatch Dec 29, 2017, 11:49 PM

#

Thx Vic

plucky hatch Dec 30, 2017, 12:07 AM

#

@plucky hatch probably yes, but not this time. Everyone is buying champagne

hybrid phoenix Dec 30, 2017, 12:14 AM

#

@plucky hatch It's frowned upon if you don't do anything interesting with them

#

If you can make a visually coherent, interesting game with marketplace assets, sure

#

I'd say it's nice to credit the creators

#

I'd also say you should make sure a significant part of the work is still your own

#

But there's nothing wrong with using asset packs

#

(When legally acquired)

#

I.e.; you need explicit permission from the creator to use the assets. That's always the case on the marketplace and unity assetstore, but not with random assets on the internet

plucky hatch Dec 30, 2017, 1:49 AM

#

Ahhh that’s what I didn’t get

#

Well thanks for clearing that up guys 😃

plucky hatch Dec 30, 2017, 8:43 PM

#

Is anyone looking for a pixel artist job

brisk heart Dec 30, 2017, 8:44 PM

#

more chance that you will get some kind of offer if you post at #looking-for-talent channel

plucky hatch Dec 31, 2017, 5:55 AM

#

I have a friend who does

#

texted you

plucky hatch Dec 31, 2017, 4:39 PM

#

Contracted a programmer to help me with networked replication and such for my game the other day

#

Best decision ever guy is awesome 😃

plucky hatch Dec 31, 2017, 6:54 PM

#

wrong chat sorry

plucky hatch Dec 31, 2017, 7:11 PM

#

Im Looking for so many people at talents chat.

velvet wren Jan 1, 2018, 3:28 AM

#

Hey guys so I need someone to write some simple zombie AI for me am not paying per hour dm me

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

I'm planning to drop out of highschool ( boredom + in italy it lasts 1 year more than every other civilized country, for some reason ) and try to join 42

#

as an employer, would my drop-out discourage you from hiring me, even if my work at 42 looks ( very? ) promising?

flat gazelle Jan 1, 2018, 12:23 PM

#

I would question you about it, yes. If you dropped out because of boredom, why should I believe you won't get bored at my company and move on to something else?

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:24 PM

#

I would tell you high school was boring because they were years behind me when it came to about every subject I care about ( math, "programming" ( first function defined after two years of C ), physics mostly )

#

and that I considered your job offer because it was intriguing 😉

flat gazelle Jan 1, 2018, 12:25 PM

#

Wrong answer. That would be a pass from me. Good luck though.

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:26 PM

#

I'll probably have to find a more eloquent way of saying that 😂

#

is it because it sounds too narcisistic?

flat gazelle Jan 1, 2018, 12:30 PM

#

You sound immature and selfabsorbed. Not someone I want in a professional setting. If they are so far behind you, why aren't you gliding through class while building your own projects. Use the teachers for guidance on that. There are always ways to develop your skills. Especially your social skills. If you are so godly, why are you not tutoring your fellow students?

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:30 PM

#

I get you

#

where have you gone to high school though?

flat gazelle Jan 1, 2018, 12:31 PM

#

Sweden

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:31 PM

#

many of those things aren't possible in the italian school system

#

I wish I lived in sweden

dense heath Jan 1, 2018, 12:31 PM

#

exchange year to sweden?

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:31 PM

#

too late and too expensive

#

I don't have any money

dense heath Jan 1, 2018, 12:31 PM

#

they are mostly founded

flat gazelle Jan 1, 2018, 12:32 PM

#

Why are you not making money then? I'm guessing you don't have to spend any time studying

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 12:33 PM

#

No I do have to spend time studying, mandatory subjects like history of art though

#

I'm not einstein or anything, it's just that I spent so much time studying those subjects I'm passionate about

#

Also I'm not really money oriented with my projects ( and if that's the kind of programmer you're looking for, you shouldn't hire me ): I prefer to spend time playing around with advanced projects like game engines that are just too big for me to make money with them yet ( at 17 and with my experience ) rather than making a simple android app that might profit me

#

though I should also mention I got a C2 English certificate at 1 7, which if anything should indicate I can work hard if I want to

#

and that if I even get accepted at 42 it means I learnt french ( in one year 😂 )

#

anyhow, I'm still extremely bad at presenting myself and if any of you has some time I'd be very grateful if you sent me a PM and we could work on it a bit

urban merlin Jan 1, 2018, 3:26 PM

#

Hello! I am looking for someone to do some concept art for me. I suck at drawing and am willing to pay for it. Send me a dm to find out more!

granite brook Jan 1, 2018, 3:28 PM

#

@urban merlin Please create a posting in #looking-for-talent ,following its pinned message.

urban merlin Jan 1, 2018, 3:29 PM

#

Doing lft for such a simple task isn’t necessary

steel creek Jan 1, 2018, 3:29 PM

#

Yes it actually is. You are looking for someone to pay them for a job. You should fill out a criteria form and let people read that instead of trying to discuss it in a job chat about that board

granite brook Jan 1, 2018, 3:32 PM

#

@urban merlin All talent and work searches should be placed in lft or lfw.
This channel here is not for posting job offers. Please check the channel description

urban merlin Jan 1, 2018, 3:34 PM

#

Meh. If someone is interested they will contact me.

hybrid phoenix Jan 1, 2018, 5:22 PM

#

@severe elm Thing is: 1. You still have to get a job at 42. What incentive would they have to hire you? Unless you already have a job lined up there, I'd say that's the primary problem 2. Regardless of whether an employer cares, you might not always want what you want now. I'm still in school, and I intend to finish it for that reason particularly. 3. How many years you got there? What age will you be when you're finished? 4. Work is never exclusively fun, if you can't get through the crappy stuff of school, that'll be an indicator for an employer, because you'll not be reliable when stuff becomes hard.

#

I'm planning to finish my school and look for a programming job as gamedev or software engineer, in hopes that I can build up a resume decent enough to not need to go to Uni. That said, I'm finishing my school so I can always still go to Uni if plans change, and I'm not sure if I can get a job in the first place

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

You sound very certain about the outcome of 42's decision, while there's no reason to believe they'd hire you

#

(By the way, we're talking about Squadron 42, I presume? There's no company called 42, so that's as close as I could guess)

#

@urban merlin Lots of people don't read this chat, but do #looking-for-talent

#

You're missing those now

#

(This is a discussion channel, so no reason to read it if you're just looking for work)

dense heath Jan 1, 2018, 5:36 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix since he learned french for it i assume he meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(school)

42 (school)

42 is a private, nonprofit and tuition-free computer programming school created and funded by French billionaire Xavier Niel (Founder of the telecommunication company Illiad) with several partners including Nicolas Sadirac (previous director-gene...

plucky hatch Jan 1, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

:::::D

hybrid phoenix Jan 1, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

Ah

#

Well

#

They don't give degrees, though, do they?

#

And still, why'd they hire you?

dense heath Jan 1, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

they have test but have no accreditation

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 8:20 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix 42 is a new paradigm of programming school, you should look it up

hybrid phoenix Jan 1, 2018, 8:21 PM

#

Yeah, just read the wiki article

severe elm Jan 1, 2018, 8:21 PM

#

while it's true that it might look like I can't go through the crappy stuff of school, maybe I could but what reason is there to? Your point about not knowing what I want to do is sound..

#

but finishing high school would give me pretty much nothing but a piece of paper

#

I will forget all history of art and italian literature as soon as I get out of the final exam

#

the only thing school still has to give me ( imho ) is a bit of chemistry and biology

#

well, maybe more than a bit 😂

hybrid phoenix Jan 1, 2018, 8:31 PM

#

@severe elm While I see your point, that's a debate about the western educational system, not about why you should get a degree

#

Degrees are widely valued and a necessary evil at this point

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 4:44 AM

#

Looking for retopo work

#

dm me

maiden bough Jan 2, 2018, 8:44 AM

#

hey, i need a 3d game artist who can do animation and texturing.
DM me, thanks

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 9:08 AM

#

@severe elm why would you hire someone who’s response to “boring” stuff is to just walk away from it

#

Man, you need to spend like an hour a day or maybe few hours a week to do your homework

#

Meanwhile when you are almost 40, good luck finding few hours a week for your hobby - which well might be the only thing that is not “boring” or “have to be done”

#

And why stop on school, university degree in something like applied math is a superb asset for game development or other career.

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 9:58 AM

#

russUs and ParParadox, you can message the bot with the word "talent" and it will run you through some questions about your job posting'

#

its easy peasy and probably the best way to go about hiring talent 😃

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

@ocean harbor The fact that it's boring itself wouldn't be important if it wasn't sooooo useless and the condition of the school wasn't so horrible

#

I'd do anything that would help me get a job in that field, but I don't really think that year of hs helps me in any wa y except for having a piece of paper to show that I kept walking through that last year even if it wouldn't teach me much

#

wouldn't it be a good thing if someone took a great risk quitting high school to go pursue what he is really passionate about?

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:32 AM

#

As a prospective employer one could argue that it shows an inability to stick things out and to make rational decisions

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:37 AM

#

I don't really get it though, like what if you're sick and you can get through it faster by taking medicines, if you take them it means you're unable to endure unlikeable situations?

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:38 AM

#

that's a false equivalence

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

it may seem like staying sick is useless while staying in high school is useful

#

but that's only if we start with the assumption that the employers that will look at 42's students ( and there are ) value if you finished high school before going there

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:39 AM

#

you yourself said that quitting school would be a risk

#

unless taking medicine is also a great risk, then it isn't equivalent

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:41 AM

#

there's probably a selection bias, since if those employers went there in the first place it means they value that kind of education as opposed to ( or equivalently as ) traditional education

#

the risk is that this reasoning is flawed

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:42 AM

#

let's put it another way - if you have two candidates for a position with otherwise equal portfolios, are you going to hire the one with the degree, or the high school dropout?

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 10:42 AM

#

^

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 AM

#

I'll have to think about that

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 AM

#

Idk I think its just a safer choice for them. Who know you could be some genius, but it is a big risk for them to hire.

#

It might seem like bs, but its standard bs

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 AM

#

also sometimes the employer is not the person you need to get yourself past

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

since you put me in the perspective of the two candidates, I know how fucked up italian schools are and that it takes one year more for me to get a degree than a french candidate, for no reason whatsoever
but the employer probably doesn't know that :/

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

you may also first need to get past:
A) An agency recruiter.
B) A Human Resources employee
and C) local immigration requirements

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

I pass C

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

you don't know if you pass C, because you haven't applied to anything yet

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:45 AM

#

how does one go through the Human Resources?

#

Yes I pass C

#

I'm an european immigrant in an european country

#

no visa required

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:46 AM

#

I'm aware of how the EU works, but you're assuming said job is in the EU

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:46 AM

#

yes

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 10:46 AM

#

oh

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:46 AM

#

I want to stay in the EU

#

It's actually likely if they offered me a job in the US or Japan I'd refuse

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:47 AM

#

true enough, but what about if it were in the UK?

#

a significant part of the European games industry is based in the UK

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:47 AM

#

well, it depends on wether brexit actually goes through

#

if it does it'll likely be at least somewhat harder to immigrate

#

but europe is so large

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:48 AM

#

it depends on the terms of the agreement, however since immigration control was the primary motivator, it stands to reason one should expect it to become more difficult

#

the games industry is a very small place

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:49 AM

#

France, Sweden, Germany, even Croatia

#

Who talked about game industry

#

more like software engineering industry

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:49 AM

#

well, we're in a games orientated channel, so I'm assuming games

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 10:49 AM

#

hehe

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 10:49 AM

#

if we're not talking about games, you're talking to the wrong people

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 10:50 AM

#

game industry is indeed prob the easiest field to get in with programming skills and no degree 😂

#

I mean, any graduate would kick my ass if it came to getting a data scientist job

#

for example

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 11:14 AM

#

Hello there, looking for a Programmer/BP and 3D artist, please DM me!

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 2:04 PM

#

@severe elm the thing is, if you pass 42 training then it will matter less but before that you would be just another “school dropout”

#

Trust me, your resume won’t even pass screening in most of EU countries that are different to your citizenship

#

Someone will have a hard time to justify to emigration office to hire someone without a complete school education

#

Taking into account that so many people in IT field have at least bachelor degree

#

Even if you pass admission exam at 42, you still will have like a half-year a year when they can kick you out, take that into consideration too

#

Regarding immigration, being a EU citizen you don’t need visa to enter EU countries, but you still need work permit and this is where your education becomes extremely important

#

It’s not just passing HR but emigration office giving a green light for your work permit

#

I would argue that even completing 42 training is less viable in this sense than a Uni degree as you will be relying completely on recognition of 42 by your employer

#

Social coverage and employment insurance are effected by this too, although no idea how much

#

Just to be clear by EU I’m talking about all central and Western Europe, not just core EU countries

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:20 PM

#

lol

#

u are so oldskool and wrong

#

just because u did it, others dont have 2 do it.

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:22 PM

#

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/work-abroad/work-permits/index_en.htm

Your Europe - Citizens

Work permits

Croatians may need a work permit in Austria, Malta, the Netherlands, Slovenia, the UK.

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:22 PM

#

work permits aren't a thing for EU citizens in the EU

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:22 PM

#

no work permits required

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:23 PM

#

Norway and Switzerland however, slightly different rules apply (and the UK from 29th March 2019)

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

even then, I'll need to get at least a part time job to support myself

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

lol

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

no matter what country I move to

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

move to finland

#

free money to everyone

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

And Sweeden, not sure about Finland

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

even for the muslim rapers

#

you get free money

#

i tell you

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

I should be able to at least support myself with my C2 certificate

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

free edu free everything

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 PM

#

Sweden is EU, so no work permit required

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:26 PM

#

and with that I should be able to get a visa

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:26 PM

#

what country net is from?

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:26 PM

#

italy

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:26 PM

#

where u need visa for?

#

russia? 😄

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:27 PM

#

visa requirements will vary by country

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:27 PM

#

the hell with russia

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:27 PM

#

for example, if you wanted to emigrate to the US, you'd need a H1B or equivalent, which is very hard to get without a Bachelors degree or better

flat gazelle Jan 2, 2018, 2:27 PM

#

You can replace the 4 years of study with 12 years professional exerience

#

for H1b

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:28 PM

#

those homophobic dictatorship lovers can drown in their own poverty for what I care

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:28 PM

#

12 years professional experience doesn't apply here, haha

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:28 PM

#

anyway, I'm not really that interested in moving to the US either

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:28 PM

#

who the fuck wants to go to us :d

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

it was just an example

#

(since I know the requirements offhand)

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

stay in italy

#

its warm and pizza

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

I hope to be able to stay in france or sweden

flat gazelle Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

@lilac walrus Nah, I was just putting it out there as I looked into it recently.

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

Not sure what link is suppose to mean, in Switzerland you do need to get a work permit regardless of your country of origin 😄

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

fair

#

Switzerland isn't EU

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

switzerland is not part of this

lilac walrus Jan 2, 2018, 2:29 PM

#

hence the need for a work permit

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:30 PM

#

switz will rape your wallet

#

custom taxation xD

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:30 PM

#

italy has so much incompetence and annoying old people

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 2:30 PM

#

Well, that article says that EU citizens don’t need work permit in Switzerland - so not sure how trustworthy is the rest of information there

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:30 PM

#

yes and rubbish in street

#

and mafia

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:31 PM

#

and public transport is always late lol

#

not really rubbish

#

that's just naples

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:31 PM

#

same thing

#

xD

#

u have 2 wise options

#

norway or finland

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:31 PM

#

there are no shootouts anymore, except in naples lol

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

norway is good pay but very expensive and finland is ok pay but boring

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

off-topic

plucky hatch Jan 2, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

i think you get free money both countries

#

and u can work easily

#

and no shootings or musulman empire

#

yet

shut tree Jan 2, 2018, 2:39 PM

#

go visit russia, B4 russia visits you 😛

brisk heart Jan 2, 2018, 3:30 PM

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ye they visited my country some time ago, now its mandatory to learn russian from 6th grade...

#

also if someone is considering moving to one of the nordic countries, take a look at denmark too. free education, similar cost of living just maybe a bit harder to aquire residence/work permit, unless you go there as a student, then its easy

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 3:54 PM

#

Isn’t free education for citizens only?

brisk heart Jan 2, 2018, 3:55 PM

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for eu citizens

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 3:56 PM

#

Really? Awesome 😃

brisk heart Jan 2, 2018, 3:56 PM

#

danish people get a sponsorship for studying

#

like 800e a month

#

or you have to be living there for 5 years to get that too

ocean harbor Jan 2, 2018, 3:57 PM

#

Yeah, just got confirmation, the caveat is that you still have to pay accommodation on your own and it can be pretty expensive, depending where you come from

brisk heart Jan 2, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

ye the bare minimum you will spend per month is 1k e +

fiery crescent Jan 2, 2018, 9:08 PM

#

Guys come to toronto, our min. wage just went up to 14$/hr

hybrid phoenix Jan 2, 2018, 9:41 PM

#

But then, CAD is worth ~0.7 euros, I think

#

Yeah that's ~9 euros

#

Still decent, I suppose

brisk heart Jan 2, 2018, 9:59 PM

#

cause of the minimum wage going up already saw some posts about companies increasing their prices, so it smells a lot like inflation

fiery crescent Jan 2, 2018, 10:09 PM

#

you bet

severe elm Jan 2, 2018, 11:58 PM

#

mininum wage in italy is 5.1 euro

#

so unless there was an 9/5.1 = 1.76 inflaction rate, enjoy your priviledge

#

😛

hybrid phoenix Jan 3, 2018, 12:02 AM

#

Italy doesn't exactly have the same cost of living as Canada, though

#

Valuta values don't account for local differences

#

I can buy a lot more with a euro in Italy than I can here in the Netherlands

chrome bone Jan 3, 2018, 1:05 AM

#

i want to live in italy

plucky hatch Jan 3, 2018, 7:33 AM

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And have good times of siesta?

lilac walrus Jan 3, 2018, 8:20 AM

#

Siesta is Spanish

fiery crescent Jan 3, 2018, 3:21 PM

#

Cost of living in toronto is pretty high

#

rent alone in the city averages 1000-1400$ a month. If you're sharing it's affordable

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:11 PM

#

Alrighty, got a question about life. Let's say my goal in life would be an Entrepeneur to open let's say...a small Indie Company? Anyway, before all that I want to just go in a company/work with other people/work in an university about this (I got that covered) and well..which jobs do you think are the best to take FIRST? I am slowly getting out of high school and heading for the university, but my mind is older.

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:28 PM

#

for running a company best would be a business school

#

as you are not saying anything specific about gamedev

#

in a sense of gamedev, imho an assistant to a producer is very viable thing to do

#

you will learn how everything works, but most likely won't be doing much on technical side

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

Thank ya for these words

#

And well for the school, it's not a problem. Just finding a way to learn how to go beyond in let's say, a game dev XD.. just need to read a lot for now I guess

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:31 PM

#

that would be the best

#

there is udemy course on how to get a job in gamedev industry, no idea how good it is

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:31 PM

#

Oh, to get a job I don't think is the problem

#

I think what jobs to take..are the problems here

#

I mean, to be more specific, I want to aim for Programming in games

#

And well, I have creativity, I can do something else aswell, giving ideas

#

I think those two "Traits" work good togheter, and it can secure something better

#

Maybe I am wrong, because I'm still young, 17 years old .. but that's why knowledge is spread around, to get it

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:49 PM

#

@open isle do you have some ideas of what you would prefer to program?

#

there are general specializations

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:50 PM

#

I haven't dug that deep into this..I don't really know the branches that I can go for yet

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:50 PM

#

overall I see it like this:
graphics - closest and most usefull you can get is from Computer Graphics specialization, you can focus on real-time from pretty much the start

#

then you have frameworks - aka making tools and engines, very specific to gamedev, no idea what closest from industry would be

#

then you have gameplay/feature programming, for this I would say that Applied Math specialization is extremely viable, has little to do with gamedev in terms of study but you will learn things that are difficult to learn from gamedev articles or tutorials

#

another thing that can help you a lot is going into robotics

mental viper Jan 3, 2018, 10:53 PM

#

^ good summary

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:54 PM

#

reason is because its heavy with electronics and nature science on top with low level programming

#

even aerospace engineering can fit this realy well

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:55 PM

#

Ahh I see, yeah there are a bunch of stuff that I just have to check for myself..and well, see what I want to do ..see what I can do..and just go with the flow

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:55 PM

#

thigns to sort of avoid :
AI - most of it nowadays is focused on machine learning and pretty much all of it is high level, if you are fine with working a lot on your c++ skills in free time then it will be ok

#

ohh, forgot one thing, Computer Graphics includes physics engines too

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:57 PM

#

Gee, just seeing people just spit stuff like this out .. I am just curious how they learned about this XD

#

Yeah, indeed, a good summary about programming

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:57 PM

#

and heavily avoid generic IT, I did System Analisys and 3 years of Probability Theory is not very usefull in gamedev 😄

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:58 PM

#

Oh thanks for that

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:58 PM

#

at least we have pascal, c++, little bit of asm and optional Java, currently these kind of studies can be java only with a ton of theoretical things which you might never use or can easily learn from a book

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 10:59 PM

#

I was actually trying to find stuff about IT, and how it could help with gamedev..

#

Actually, since we are on the topic of Languages

#

Which ones do you think in your opinion are good Programming Languages?

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 10:59 PM

#

c++

#

there is no real substitute in gamedev for it

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:00 PM

#

Alright, that's good XD

#

That's the first thing I have learnt

#

And slowly mastering it

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:00 PM

#

and this ties back into why I don't recommend IT specialization - it's rarely oriented on low level problem solving

#

so it was a good choice 😄

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:01 PM

#

Indeed :D

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:01 PM

#

have you checked local unis?

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:01 PM

#

Not yet, might look into it if I only knew where XD

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:02 PM

#

where are you from? not that it will help 😄

#

finished my studies 10 years ago...

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:02 PM

#

Also, I wish I knew about this sooner, with computers and programming and all, because I never had a single person that told me that Programming was a thing that you can do for the future derp
And I'm from Romania

#

Going in the next two years to the capital for an university, and just going for..a job at Ubisoft just to keep me

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:03 PM

#

ohh great, I'm just off the airplane from Bucharest 😄

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:03 PM

#

Oh damn :D

#

Such a little world

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:03 PM

#

do you know someone from Ubi?

#

I mean, someone that could give you an overview

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:04 PM

#

I wish, if I knew someone then I wouldn't be such a noob

#

I am veeeeery far away from getting stuff done, and yeah..I need an advisor, a person to show me a path or two, dunno

#

This is why I am here mostly :D

mental viper Jan 3, 2018, 11:04 PM

#

you could try to go to some gamedev conference/happening

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:05 PM

#

Anything specific ?

mental viper Jan 3, 2018, 11:05 PM

#

i mean to ask ppl

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:05 PM

#

imho, as you are finishing school, you could focus on something that gives you a very usefull diploma outside of gamedev.

mental viper Jan 3, 2018, 11:06 PM

#

^

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:06 PM

#

I'm sure there are local meetups at Romania

#

check facebook groups, gamedev.net, igda

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:06 PM

#

Best course of action yeh..

#

I'm probably going to write everything on a notebook from here

#

And give everything a try

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:08 PM

#

EA has a large development office in Bucharest(Affi Mall) but as you are from Romania, you can easily get good internship abroad

#

it might be move valuable than a local office

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:08 PM

#

Yeah, that is a possibility that I can go for aswell, I want to move out of Romania

#

It's a great country, great place to study and all..but not many things that I can do involving my dreams

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:10 PM

#

alternative plan, go for low level machine learning (Robotics) then get job at Google Switzerland for 5 years and comeback home to open gamedev studio 😄

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:10 PM

#

Damn

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:10 PM

#

starting salary will be about 120k a year CHF

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:10 PM

#

So many stuff stuff to choose from XD

#

Also , I am not in for the money just saying

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:11 PM

#

no no, it so that you can do some savings

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:11 PM

#

Yeah, that's what I thought you would say :D

#

I love investing

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:11 PM

#

as starting and running your own business takes money

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:11 PM

#

I can do that

#

Tbh, it just takes like 550$ to survive every month

#

Saving money, isn't that hard, well...for people who do NOT touch it I guess?

#

And switzerland..sounds like a nice plan

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:12 PM

#

plenty of Romanians working there already - in a sense that technical level of universities in Romania is pretty good + you can get internship

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:12 PM

#

I'll just write a lot of things on a diary or smthing and when it's time..I will have to choose something

#

Heh, wonder if I will find someone XD

#

Weird, I just cannot seem to find anyone that good in my country, only outside..like some great friends of mine left, and they are doing well

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:14 PM

#

yeah, almost 30% of population is abroad I guess 😄

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:14 PM

#

Irony , every week in the media it's just about how we leave the country

#

And those people, are the good people

#

Say, enough talk about me XD
What about you mate?

#

Have a job? A dream? Hobby?

#

Also, what's the name of the university btw?

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:17 PM

#

I would love to chat but should be sleeping anyway.
I’ve studied in Ukraine, don’t think that helps 😄

#

My girlfriend is Romanian and a lot of her friends, so that’s how I know

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:18 PM

#

Oh damn I see. Well sorry for the bother, and thanks a bunch mate, you're one out of soooo many people who I adored talking to XD

#

Maybe we can talk in the future, dunno. Good night mate

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:19 PM

#

No worries, take my words with grain of salt as I’m not a game developer by profession for many years

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

Ah don't worry, It's quite impossible to find a person that wants what I want

#

But everything was useful, the knowledge

#

I will not waste this :D

ocean harbor Jan 3, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

good luck!

open isle Jan 3, 2018, 11:20 PM

#

Thank you again :D

#

Gnight

plucky hatch Jan 5, 2018, 9:57 AM

#

!help

#

@plucky hatch, Sent you a DM with information.

fading yoke Jan 7, 2018, 11:53 AM

#

I see so many people looking for an Artist in the #looking-for-talent channel, which makes sense because almost everybody here in this Discord is a programmer. It makes me wonder if there are any active, art-centric communities out there where they have a #looking-for-talent channel full of a bunch of "looking for programmers" job advertisements.

steel creek Jan 7, 2018, 5:03 PM

#

everybody here? There are tons of artists here. Just keep in mind, not everyone "needs" a job, nor do a lot of those jobs actually pay an equivalent of anything in real world scale to what an actual artist / techartist / tech animator will be paid.

#

just scrolled that list. perfect example. There is nothing there, for an artist, that is actually paying any money, except for one job offered as contract with no price range.

west meadow Jan 7, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

@steel creek wish i found some that would help then just saying they will then dont

chrome bone Jan 8, 2018, 12:57 AM

#

@west meadow part of selling the vision

tepid ledge Jan 8, 2018, 2:47 AM

#

How do I send a DM to somebody who's not my friend?

drowsy tundra Jan 8, 2018, 2:51 AM

#

If you don't share a server with them, you can't.

#

(also, they can disable DMs from people in shared servers, in which case you have to be friends with them or have them DM you first)

serene halo Jan 9, 2018, 2:15 AM

#

Going out on a limb here, but looking for a UE4 dev/contractor with console c++ programming experience. PM me for details, this is a paid job.

vivid pivot Jan 9, 2018, 2:15 AM

#

I think this should be posted in #looking-for-talent @serene halo

serene halo Jan 9, 2018, 2:16 AM

#

will do, thanks!

open isle Jan 9, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

Is it possible to be a Programmer and well an Artist at the same time?

#

I have a lot to learn as a Programmer, but I am planning to learn how to draw my own things

#

And well, I can probably learn even Animation along

#

I mean to be honest, wouldn't that be a good idea for the future..knowing many things ?

lilac walrus Jan 9, 2018, 3:41 PM

#

Technical Artist

#

also Rendering Engineer and the like

#

(techy artist vs arty tech)

hybrid phoenix Jan 9, 2018, 3:54 PM

#

^

#

I generally dub myself technical artist

#

I do fancy code stuffs to make art stuffs easier

#

And I do lots of material stuff