career-chat

[buoyant nacelle]

@cyan pendant in parallel to setting up a pipeline (ie. using Vulcan or DirectX). learn to draw. sketch every day using https://www.shadertoy.com/new

[cyan pendant]

thank you ❤️

[distant raptor]

Oh, since you're a tech artist, which tools do you use outside of unreal during your workflow?
Also, while I'm assuming the material editor and Niagara cover a lot of ground, are there other UE features you would suggest knowing about?

[cyan pendant]

hi, I think beside UE, I use source control software, like P4 and Github. You will also need to have basic knowledge of a DCC like Maya or Blender, and how to write tools in that

about the UE features, I think it depends on the tasks you are working on. In my view, Tech Arts have to learn a lot, so there are no fixed answer for this question. For example, I didn't do much about Niagara before, but recently I have a task about VFX optimization, I have to learn about Niagara and its components, just to understand how it works, I don't need to learn to make a beautiful effect like an artist

and so, when I learned the basic, I see that the way our artists making VFX is not good, for example, they use lots of unnecessary ribbon, instead of a simple mesh, etc..

It's from my exp, and I think having a good lead/mentor is really important too

[proud spear]

May I ask why you want to move away from the tech artist path? It sounds like an interesting job

[cyan pendant]

I want to be a Graphics Programmer from beginning, but in my country we don't have that type of job, so I have to start as a Tech Art

[woeful iron]

quite different imo though

GP will focus a lot more on in depth code and performance

so if you don't know c++, definitely the first thing to do

I would then look into rendering libraries, learn to understand and use DirectX for sure

OpenGL if you want and Vulkan if you are daring

if you want to be unreal graphics programmer, also start looking at the source code of the whole rendering system of the engine

but a good base would be to write some custom render engine stuff using library API's directly

(so outside of UE)

dislaimer: I'm not a graphics programmer

[cyan pendant]

thank @woeful iron , as a graduated CS student I think I can code at intermediate level, I'm planning to follow the game engine series of The Cherno after I finish The Book of Shaders, do you think it's a good starting point for a G.P

[woeful iron]

It's a start, but you should really also try to do something without tutorials

following tutorials, especially videos, puts you in a trap of exactly doing what the instructor is doing and not thinking or trying for yourself

there's also an interesting book called "Introduction to 3D Game Programming with DirectX 11" by Frank Luna, I really enjoyed that one

DX12 exists now, but 11 is easier to get into if you don't have GP experience imo

(same book exists for 12 btw)

[lapis pivot]

I've struggled with job as whenever I mastered that role, I'd get bored and start looking for other jobs that keep challenging me. Should I pursue programming?

[cyan pendant]

yes I learned from that book too, my first book when learning about CG, but it uses its own framework, if I remember right, I can't learn much about DirectX because it has source code inside and the framework just supports me well. Did I just learn that book the wrong way

[woeful iron]

depends on how you define mastered lol

[lapis pivot]

As in i can't learn any more.

[woeful iron]

you can't learn any more or you think you can't learn any more

[proud spear]

you've chosen the right industry my friend. programming is great if you have an unsatiable thirst for knowledge.

[cyan pendant]

can you share me the way you learn that book @woeful iron

[woeful iron]

how much experience do you have

[woeful iron]

It's hard to tell you cause I read it in conjunction with college :p I just found the book on its own interesting as well

[lapis pivot]

I can make landscapes in UE5 😂

[woeful iron]

is that your peak for learning

[lapis pivot]

For now, yes. I want to learn everything

[woeful iron]

so there is stuff left to learn..

you contradict yourself

[cyan pendant]

haha okay, thank you @woeful iron. I love that book too, I will take a look at the Dx 12 version

[lapis pivot]

Are we talking about past jobs or what I'm learning now?

[woeful iron]

the thing that you say you have mastered

are you just starting in programming?

or were your previous roles in the same direction

because with programming in general, there pretty much is not limit

but of course a certain job can have its limits

[lapis pivot]

Yes, I'm new to programming. though i taught myself python a few years ago

[woeful iron]

most of the challenge of programmer jobs will not come from the programming aspect though (with some experience), the real challenge is the problem solving

if that is something that interests you, programming might be an interesting carreer move

[lapis pivot]

I like a good problem to solve. Everything gets boring when you do the same thing all the time

[woeful iron]

again, that can really depend on the job you have though

my first job was programming, but still very repetitive

[lapis pivot]

Hmmm.. it's an option. my parents want me to renew my Network+ certificate again. But i didn't like IT industry.

[proud spear]

What do you think about when you program? Is it implementing new rendering techniques? Do you think about how a player will interact with the game? Is it optimizing data structures and making things faster? They're all programming, but they touch different parts of the game.

I like thinking about how the player feels and how they interact. Thus, I enjoy being a gameplay programmer

[woeful iron]

there's also programming outside of games

[lapis pivot]

I've always been interested in artificial intelligence

[woeful iron]

plenty of jobs for that atm

there's a difference between AI hype and having a job in AI though

[woeful iron]

speaking outside of games here, to clarify

[lapis pivot]

IDK if it's hype. But even as a kid i was fascinated by them.

[woeful iron]

well you can try it out and see if you like it

you say you already did python, can be useful for AI stuff

again, outside of games

in games, AI is different

[lapis pivot]

I learned the basics of python and was starting to learn machine learning. But i stopp when I realized I didn't know what I wanted it to do. So i shelved the idea for a while. It's why I started learning Unreal engine. It was so i can create a world to test AI.

[woeful iron]

I don't think machine learning in unreal is very common though

[lapis pivot]

Well I was going to involve machine learning for a game. But it evolved into an actual game with a story

[lavish owl]

Can anyone explain me the paying system of ue?
I dont get what per quarter 3000 mean?
Can anyone give me a full explanation

[shut token]

They're talking about yearly quarters. A quarter is 3 months.

4 quarters = 1 year.

[lavish owl]

When i have pay this?

[pure kettle]

Once your game surpasses total gross profit of 1 million USD, You'll start paying Epic 5% of your game's gross profit after $10K per end of quarter (March, June, September, December)

[brave forge]

I'd recommend contacting epic rather than asking here. They will be more than happy to help you pay them correctly

[thin harness]

So, how do I get my foot in the door? Just keep doing tutorials and apply for jobs?

[chilly sundial]

If you are at the religiously needing tutorials for unreal stage you aren't ready for a job with unreal

It also depends on what you want to do.

For an artist position following tutorials and such and applying for jobs is great but you probably won't land a job unless you make a portfolio that shows good technical knowledge

[thin harness]

That makes sense. And yes I religiously need tutorials atm lol, I know it's not a short term thing. I'm used to doing hard things though so I'm ready to commit to learning enough to be independent.

[modern relic]

ye but first let me give you a 20 minute life story, then tell you about my sponsor and not actually cover the topic of the video properly

what about patreon?

[pure kettle]

Also fill > 60% of the video with you either fumbling around or say nothing as you struggle through the editor

Not going to name him, but I know a creator that repeatedly do that in his videos, and it's infuriating to even watch it out of curiosity.

[modern relic]

i watched a video today that was a "tutorial" with no speaking but they had notepad open and typed it out instead. watching them fumble through typing it out and making typos and backspacing and retyping was more cringe than i can take

[pure kettle]

Does it have 009 Sound System music in the background, and Unregistered Hypercam 2?

[modern relic]

no there was no sound at all and i didnt see any watermarks. it was just a shit video

[brave forge]

What is this? 2006?

[pure kettle]

...that was a joke btw
because "tutorials" with typed notepad section were common in early YT videos

[modern relic]

i feel like even tutorials in 2006 were better

[distant raptor]

I forgot to thank you for this input!
This was really helpful to know - I currently don't have a great grip on Blender, but I'm sure I can get to learn that with a bit of time.
And how to write tools in Blender essentially boils down to python, right?

Do you think Houdini is a necessary for a junior? Or is it just a "plus" if I know it?

[cyan pendant]

hi, I think Houdini is great, but it depends on whether your company is using it or not. And yes, you should start with Python, because 3ds max and maya tools can be written using Python too (pymxs and pymel)

[pastel estuary]

a coder friend of mine offered to make me a script I always wanted.
Lead programmer-level, published many games.
after two hours of scripting in max (max-script back then) he send me the script and started a video call.
he flipped both middle fingers at me and said "never again, luos, f**k max-scripting" and ended the call XD

[woeful iron]

can never take the name pymel seriously

[pastel estuary]

as a dutch person, me neither XD

[cyan pendant]

max script is a pain, I only use that when I have to write tool that need to process on huge objects/vertices

[cobalt verge]

Do you know how to pronounce this phrase? )

ØDGRØD MED FLØDE

[woeful iron]

that's danish though

[pastel estuary]

^

[woeful iron]

Maybe interesting for people that don’t know possible jobs in games https://creative-assembly.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/inline-files/GamesIndustryCareers_Cribsheet_2022.pdf

[plucky hatch]

sorry about the commands mod, wasn't working.

[pastel estuary]

no worries :)

not the first time it happens, and prolly not the last :)

[pearl bolt]

i wanna code in only bp and make 6 figures

or maybe learn verse when it comes out

just no cpp

[wary idol]

Well before fully dedicating yourself to only BPs you should think about your long term future
With BPs only you don't really have any opportunities outside UE
If you learn C++ then you have a whole lot more options

[pearl bolt]

i would wanna be a game designer but i dont wanna work a whole lot on animation

and art rlly

cuz my art skills are shi

i may want to be a programmar if verse comes out

[brave forge]

A lifetime of employment and a lifetime of frustration!

[wary idol]

I wouldn't be relying on Verse for long term
When it comes out, if it comes out as a general purpose language, it's gonna be a very long time before it sees large scale adoption
Compared to something like C++, imo not learning C++ is a mistake

[pearl bolt]

i dont think verse will be used outside of unreal

[brave forge]

The kinds of problems you solve don't depend on language, after a while the language becomes somewhat irrelevant, it's the problem solving and building that is the key skill and interest

[pearl bolt]

i would learn cpp if i wanted jobs outside of just unreal

could happen ig

if i wanted to be a software developer i would learn lua

i mean maybe i will learn lua one day

[wary idol]

when you learn C++ any other language is easy mode from there

[pearl bolt]

cpp is not a language anyone should start off with

[brave forge]

No but waiting for verse is not a good starting point either

[pure kettle]

People use Python more than Lua.

[pearl bolt]

i am aware

but not every single company uses python

[pure kettle]

I start off learning C/C++ as a kid.

[wary idol]

that's not entirely true, depends
It should definitely be on your to learn list
It teaches you a lot of low level concepts that you won't learn in other languages
Other languages will start making a whole lot more sense after knowing C++

[brave forge]

Yeah, i think c++ can get beginners lost in the weeds rather than in some of the higher level stuff. Just slows the process slightly imo. But Noone will argue it was a bad language to learn at any point

[wary idol]

if you know C++ you can pick up any other language within a week

[pure kettle]

I'd argue starting by learning C/C++ makes using other language a matter of getting used to the syntaxing

Even if you do end up hating the new language's syntaxing

[pearl bolt]

is cpp kinda ez

[wary idol]

quite literally lol

[pearl bolt]

i didndt think so

ue6 better come out with a feauture that allows us to tell it what we want to do then it makes the code for us 🤣

[wary idol]

one of the most difficult languages you can learn, but that's the reason why it is a good language to start with
As we said, it makes everything else easy

[brave forge]

No disagreement

[pearl bolt]

first i think i would atleast try to get decent at blueprints

every ue user should try to know bp

[wary idol]

BPs are great if you wanna get familiar with the engine's framework and API

[pearl bolt]

even if they learn cpp later on

[wary idol]

and you should learn it

[pure kettle]

Consider that there's more Unity jobs than it is with UE jobs with even intermediate C++ skill

[pearl bolt]

if im a game designer im guessing they use it to prototype

[pure kettle]

Good luck in the competition, though

[brave forge]

anyone who touches UE will touch BP basically. I think the points being made above though if your intent is to get interesting in programming, it's quite a limited tool with very limited application

[pearl bolt]

also ive seen ue programmar jobs and some say to just be good at any object oriented language

[wary idol]

And that's what knowing C++ gets you^
Almost every game engine is written in C++

[pure kettle]

And C++ is one such language.

[pearl bolt]

but they say any object orientated language so theroeticily i could just learn python and apply??

i dont get it

[brave forge]

I'm not sure BP is the type of language those roles are implying. You'd have much more success with python, c# or ofcourse, c++ when the wording for the role is like that.

[pure kettle]

Don't worry, it's not super easy to wrap your head around

[pearl bolt]

ik

but like i could learn python and apply and maybe get hired but the engine doesent use python??

well what about lua

or java

[pure kettle]

Why not learn C++ and then branch out to scripting languages like those you mention?

[brave forge]

i'd take a python dev over a BP only dev. But the c++ dev is head and shoulders above because a better understanding of the memory model and some of the gotchas of pointers is something that can speed up getting productive in the role

[pure kettle]

What's holding you? The pointers?

[pearl bolt]

what if i do learn but i find myself not bein able to understand it even after several months

or years

ok

ok

[pure kettle]

Also don't expect you're gettig good at it in one night, you'll shot yourself in the foot if you try speedrunning it

[pearl bolt]

i am aware

[wary idol]

Expect anywhere between 6 months and 1.5y before you become somewhat competent in C++ with 0 previous programming experience

true

[plucky hatch]

there is a public college in a neighborhood city. I think I'm going to contact a professor there, he is the head of a 3 years degree in game design. I'm not interested in the course, but in finding contacts

[pearl bolt]

game design seems very competitive

what do designers do rlly?

i just have fine motor skills and cant rlly do visual arts

like drawing

well ig there are multiple types of game designers

what type of game designer primary focuses on like mechanics?

not art

[modern relic]

If you want a ballpark for being a hirable applicant if you started learning c++ fight now, I'd say 2 years. That's 2 years learning pretty much every day, writing programs. Tutorials like learncpp might take you a few days, then after that you start reading through unreal code and making stuff

[plucky hatch]

in magic the gathering they have the guys who care about competitive, a team for creative process, another for fine tuning mechanics and balance.

[modern relic]

If you ready have a solid programming foundation and you already know c++ it gets cut down to maybe 6 months learning unreal

[pearl bolt]

i have no experience with programming

[pearl bolt]

i wanna be creative but without art or animation

[modern relic]

See you in 2 years

[pearl bolt]

i mean id prolly be doing a little of those

[modern relic]

Game development is a great creative outlet but it's not ezpzlmnsqz

[pearl bolt]

tf

[pure kettle]

easy peasy lemon squeezy

[pearl bolt]

if u mean easy i know its not easy but its not the hardest thing ever

still kinda hard prolly

[wary idol]

well generally much harder than regular software development

[pure kettle]

Level designer, I guess.

[pearl bolt]

i wanna make 6 figures

[pure kettle]

Then work on anything else

[pearl bolt]

senior level designers could make 6 figures i bet

[steady pewter]

Learn pottery

[pearl bolt]

if i dont do gamedev id do software dev and i wanna learn lua for that

[wary idol]

technical artist or senior C++ programmer in UE is where you can expect 6 figures
But expect a very long time to pass till you get there
And I mean loooong

[pure kettle]

Out of curiosity, what's really holding you from learning C++? Time it takes to learn? Pointer mystification?

[brave forge]

Lua is more a scripting language embedded in applications AFAIK. Not much actual software is written in it AFAIK. It should just be another tool in your toolbox, not your primary language IMO

[brave spindle]

Sounds like you need to sit down and decide what you really want to do, then you can look up the skills you will need for that job.

[pearl bolt]

ez

[steady pewter]

Factorio mods?

[pearl bolt]

and roblox uses itr

[steady pewter]

I was close

[pure kettle]

Roblox industry is a shitshow, and surely not worth hiring to many

[pearl bolt]

i rlly wanna use verse for unreal but what if it never comes out

or unreal gets deleted in the future

[pure kettle]

Can you answer this?
#career-chat message

[pearl bolt]

i still dont know if i could ever pick it up well enough to use it full time

[brave forge]

I feel you are approaching this from an entirely wrong angle. The fundamentals of programming apply to all languages. Theres no need to wait for a language to be released. Get started with any language and you should be able to move to another one without great difficulty. Especially if you have the grounding of a language like C++

[pearl bolt]

ok

[modern relic]

I mean lua is a nice scripting language to use, I just wish it had more features. But then it gets bloated and becomes just like every other scripting language

[steady pewter]

But... Roblox?

[modern relic]

I wouldn't hire someone who only knew how to make stuff in roblox

[brave forge]

what if you were hiring specifically a roblox dev?

[pearl bolt]

i wouldnt have my full time job be robloxd

[modern relic]

I wouldn't do that either lmao

[pure kettle]

I mean, you could have a completely unrelated daytime job, and if you're lucky you'd have spare time to learn C++ outside the daytime job

[pearl bolt]

like what software enginners use lua

[pure kettle]

Lua is just a scripting language

[pearl bolt]

do software engineers at companys have to know a specific language or can they know any language to apply

ok

[pure kettle]

To know Lua is one thing, but to make implementation of Lua in the C++ program is a different thing

[pure kettle]

By chance, are you in a desperate position and under financial crisis?

[pearl bolt]

no

im talking about the future

[pure kettle]

Then you'd have time learning yourself C/C++

I understand if you're under desparate position and you're piling up debt, honestly that'd be something I ask out of panic.

But if you're not under crisis, take your time piling up the skills for programming

Especially if you're still under life security for the next couple of years

[outer crystal]

Hello, sorry kinda new to this; I am working on a small commercial project I would like to simply call "Deathblow", but recently discovered upon some research that this name also belongs to a pre-existing IP in the form of a Marvel/DC comic book character. I am not sure on the legality of this or how to proceed, can I simply break it into 2 words like "Death Blow", or expand into like "Project Deathblow", or should I just use something else entirely? I don't want like a "Elder Scrolls vs Scrolls" situation

[brave forge]

Trademarks are tricky subjects and vary somewhat by country. A simple change like adding a space is unlikely to work. There's generally a "reasonable person" test in court cases to see if it would cause confusion to a reasonable person. If you can't talk to a lawyer about it and look into securing your own trademark, best bet choosing a new name.

Trademarks also fall into a number of categories so a name in one category such as books may not be applicable in another category, like software. But again, best bet is talking with a lawyer

[chilly sundial]

a trademark also isnt worth the money unless you can enforce it.

[outer crystal]

This is primarily why I asked but was not sure, thank you for the info

[brave forge]

somewhat, but it can be helpful to stop you losing the name and all associated SEO and promo work you have done at the last minute

[chilly sundial]

true

[pure kettle]

FWIW you had better time renaming the project to avoid trademark clash

[brave forge]

💯 It's easy to get attached to a name, so it can be painful. But if the project is any good, a new name is not the end of the world

[woeful iron]

I know I'm late to the party, but this is pretty much a pipe dream, in games making 6 figures is already a feat, but doing that with just BP is going to be impossible. While BP is valuable while working in unreal, if that is the only thing you can do, you don't really bring very much value to the company. Doing BP often goes in combination with something else, like level design, game design, or with c++ programming, but on its own it's not going to be worth much.

there's not really a single discipline where BP is the main focus imo

[modern relic]

also going to add that if you are already paying one or more people 6 figures who can do different roles (eg programming, animating, modelling), as well as their BP counterparts, why tf would i pay you 6 figures to do only BP?

[storm osprey]

Hello guys. I'm 23, want to be a Game programmer and im now at the end of my Game Programming degree and the last days I've been asking for myself if it's worth to get in CS degree and spend 3-4 more years on college. Besides that, I'm currently doing a 1 year course related to IT that teaches(or at least tries to) java, C, SQL and web programming too, basically it's a course to get u to get a job faster but I really want to be a game programmer and I'm doing a lot of personal projects, mainly in c++ on UE(I try to use BP only when necessary) but I know Unity related stuff too. Basically I'm afraid that if I don't get a CS degree, I won't find a job. Do I need to get CS degree?

[pearl bolt]

not really, but it could help

[brave forge]

Necessary, no. Worth it, yes. A degree helps get your foot in the door in early career, but I went to uni for compsci in my late 20s after working for a few years, and I can definitely confirm that some of the algo and math courses levelled up my skills

[pastel estuary]

and you'll learn people skills. how to deal with a team-member that performs worse, or has an attitude, how to finish assignments on time, networking, dealing with critiques, leadership, etc

[woeful iron]

is this "Game Programming degree" you mention already some college/uni thing?

since you're 23 I would guess so

I would say if you want to work in games that would be enough tbh

see if you can find a job and you'll find out soon enough 😄

[pearl bolt]

i might be a game programmar in the future

but im not gonna take computer science or ap physics

[storm osprey]

Yeah, it's a normal university course, the difference is 2.5yrs and CS is 4 years

[pearl bolt]

in college i will major in a game development thing

[woeful iron]

that can be perfectly valid though

depending on what they teach

having "some" degree and formal eduction is important though imo

but if you already have this you could probably find a job if you wanted

I did a 3 year game dev college thing myself and got started in games and went to "normal" swe after 2 years

[storm osprey]

They talked about a lot of subjects that CS degree has, but most of the things I know is from self teaching.

I love coding in c++ and since I was a kid I knew that I wanted to create games or work with.

[pure kettle]

IMO you can weaponize your degree to get jobs easier than those who don't have any college diploma

But yeah, looking for game dev jobs without any degree is basically going for the hard mode.

And you better finish that damn CS degree while you have the opportunity.

[woeful iron]

but he is about to have a degree though

if I understand correctly

the question is whether to start a second one for CS

[storm osprey]

Yeah, I don't think a second degree would help, but I have to consider what people in the industry think.

[woeful iron]

experience will always overshadow degrees

having any is a good starting point

you just need a good portfolio

show what you can do

[plucky hatch]

I looked up the game design degree in a college near me. 5 semesters of computing, one semester of teology, 2 semesters of 3d modelling, etc etc.

[woeful iron]

did you just say teology

why lol

[plucky hatch]

no idea. "Introduction to teology", maybe it's about philosophical ideas and concepts

there is the name of the instructor but no description

seems that it's part of all degrees there. Catholic University

[woeful iron]

wild

[plucky hatch]

So you will be finishing up education when you are almost 30 with no experience, facing off against younger people with half a decade of experience more than you, I would not personally.

[proud spear]

30 is still young, right everyone? 🫣

[woeful iron]

no

30 is close to dead

especially for starting a career

[proud spear]

dam. I feel very fortunate to have been able to switch careers at 33 then

[plucky hatch]

It's quite late to be starting a career in this industry. I started when I was 30+, but I had already been working as a designer in another industry since I was 19.

[woeful iron]

switching is not starting though

switching is still hard, but starting at that point is harder

at least when switching you can keep all soft skills and stuff

[proud spear]

oh, i understand what you mean by starting

out of college

[woeful iron]

I would say only do the extra degree if you really care and want to learn about what is taught

[modern relic]

😅 so are you saying it's not worth it?

[woeful iron]

the extra degree? yes, not worth it imo

[modern relic]

Nah I meant the "just starting a career" part. Unless I missed some part of the conversation

[plucky hatch]

do you think it's "suicidal" to apply without meeting the req? Epic has position for level design but what I have as a portfolio is a site with a lot of text and levels for unreal engine 1

[brave forge]

Worst that will happen is your application gets ignored. You won't get blocklisted for not passing their criteria

[plucky hatch]

sent emails to three professors from three different game design schools, one studio of two guys in my state, some guy with a phd in physics who moved to lead a game design blog and another studio in the same city as me. 18 hours later, no answers

[pure kettle]

And to think some local companies blacklisted me after getting rejected smfh

"You're rejected, now get the f||uck|| out of our sight."

Well, they don't say that of course, just ghosting me, but FWIW once they reject me, they pretty much reject me forever.

[plucky hatch]

blacklisted? Does it mean a permanent rejection?

[pure kettle]

As in they reject me for future applications after rejecting me once, even if I had improved ever since.

[plucky hatch]

I don't understand. It sounds like you violated the law for them. To blacklist you out of nowhere?

[pure kettle]

I don't know what they were thinking, but it is what it is.

I guess it's more common to do so for employers on my local? I don't really know tbh.
As far as law goes, I don't think there's any law siding with the workers.

[plucky hatch]

I'm creating an acc in linkedin

[pure kettle]

Not to mention those that get me to interview, they ghosted me after interview, apparently this is uncommon?

[plucky hatch]

never heard of ghosting outside toxic relationships

[pure kettle]

Ghosting is super common on the initial steps, where you would send your resume

But after interview, apparently it's uncommon to ghosting after that

[pure kettle]

Also on that note, 18 hours is too short of a wait, typically you'd get back in a couple of weeks

If in 2 weeks you get no response, FWIW you're rejected.

[plucky hatch]

hehehe, I've sent during the overnight (after 0:00)

[brave forge]

I mean, usually there's just a better candidate, not usually a red flag to say "DEFINITELY NOT THIS CANDIDATE". it's too much hassle to block people from reapplying. especially as people tend to improve over time. What is a rejected applicant in 2022 could be exactly what you need in 2023.

[brave forge]

yeah no response is typical unfortunately

[brave forge]

it's very common to just never hear back about applications. it's rare to get an actual rejection, unless you've gone to the next stage like interviews

[plucky hatch]

now this makes a lot of sense

[brave forge]

That's the MOST i've heard of, unless theres legitimate red flags. Reapply in 6-12 months allows you to expand portfolio and skillset. I've not really heard of 1 rejection turning into a permanent rejection, again unless there's extenuating circumstances

again unless there's extenuating circumstances

[plucky hatch]

so just registered at linkedin and they allow 125k characters to post articles. I can copy whole pages from my site to linkedin

[woeful iron]

do people read linkedin articles

except for all those annoying sales and coaching people that are just pretending they are important and like eachother

[brave forge]

And recruiters!

[sly hatch]

It seems like there are so many haters and dreamer on the subject Verse. And here is my postulation. What if you can toggle between Verse and BP? Would that make everyone happy?

[woeful iron]

well you probably can use both

they're not just gonna trash BP

[sly hatch]

From what I know, Epic is making a new visual scripting language. It was little bizarre that they are working on yet another visual language. And all of sudden it all made sense thinking that it would allow an instant toggle between Verse and the new BP.

[wary idol]

It's not about hating, this is about not being able to form a long stable career on Verse or BPs alone

[sly hatch]

Yeah, exactly that's my point. You can choose one and never have to look at the other.

The new BP will instantly turn it into Verse if you wish and vice versa.

That is my postulation and I think it will make everyone happy.

[woeful iron]

I don't think you will be able to convert from one to the other tbh

but you will be able to use them both at the same time most probably

[sly hatch]

It's not easy but it's certainly possible.

Otherwise, why would they be making a new Visual Scripting Language?

It's wishful thinking but I think it makes sense if you think about it.

[woeful iron]

Verse isn't really that visual though?

it's like a new programming language

[sly hatch]

Verse is Text based.

[woeful iron]

yes

[wary idol]

I would be more convinced at the idea that they would be overhauling BPs than making a new visual scripting system

[sly hatch]

Here is the workflow I envision. Let's say you start with a new BP class and want to switch to Verse. Verse file will be created instantly and switch to Verse mode.

[woeful iron]

you're tripping my man

see: the abomination that was BP nativization

[sly hatch]

And you start editing Verse and want to switch to BP. It will update BP respecting the old node position and such, so that the toggling between BP and Verse won't reposition the nodes every time.

BP nativization is totally different.

It was an after thought project and it is much harder to generate readable C++ code.

Anyway, like I said, it's a postulation.

What if it's true, won't it make everyone happy?

[woeful iron]

well, free housing would also make a lot of people happy, doesn't make it true

but we'll see

[sly hatch]

There is no such thing as free you think about it. There is a cost but well spent in this case. ^^

I just wanted to share my ideas.

[woeful iron]

my point is not about the "free" lol

but yes it would be cool if it was interchangeable, but I personally don't think it will be

[sly hatch]

I hope the new Visual Scripting Language is really a new Visual Scripting Language, not just the old BP make-over.

Cheers!

[woeful iron]

again, is Verse really visual though

it's just text

[sly hatch]

Well, then, it will make the toggle even easier. ^^

Why do you think it's visual? just curious.

[woeful iron]

you keep calling it the new visual scripting language

[sly hatch]

They are two separate things.

[woeful iron]

they're making a new visual scripting language?

source?

[sly hatch]

Epic sent out a job description looking for a programmer who can work on the new Visual Scripting Language.

From what I know, they are working on a new VM that both the new Visual Scripting Language and Verse will depend on.

[plucky hatch]

Its normal to wait a few weeks for a reply, especially longer in holiday seasons (ive been on Christmas break for 3 weeks now and wont be checking my emails until next week), 18 hours without a response is nothing, thats not even 1 day.

[woeful iron]

wher? now I'm curious

[sly hatch]

https://gamejobs.co/Lead-Visual-Language-Programmer-at-Epic-Games-2644

[woeful iron]

Hmm I have a feeling this is going to try to make a visual editor for verse

so in that case I guess it would "toggle" between verse and this

[sly hatch]

Haha, glad that I convinced one person.

[woeful iron]

still not from bp to this though

[sly hatch]

I think BP will be there for the backward compatibility.

I guess the old BP will phase out eventually.

But I'm sure Epic will provide migration paths.

[wary idol]

I'm betting on BP overhaul, it wouldn't make sense to have yet another visual scripting language

Especially considering how tightly integrated BP's are into the engine

[sly hatch]

Yeah, who knows? It will be interesting to find out.

[wary idol]

We'll see

Also it's getting off topic for this channel, probably better suited for #lounge

[woeful iron]

I want a 6 figure career in this new language though /s

[sly hatch]

We still have no dedicated Verse channel.. sad.

It this server operated by Epic?

[woeful iron]

that has been discussed in #969360633386655744

no

[wary idol]

That's gonna be a thing when Verse eventually gets released

[sly hatch]

I'm not sure why they are so rigid about having a new channel opened.

[wary idol]

Nope, it isn't

[sly hatch]

You mean year 2024 as Epic is saying?

[woeful iron]

there's already 16 billion channels tbh

of which I only have 4 unmuted lol

[sly hatch]

Oh BTW, are you the one who made Blue Man Vehicle Physics on the Marketpalce? Just curious.

[woeful iron]

literally in his discord bio

[sly hatch]

Haha, I see. I wonder why you stopped working on the plugins.

Vehicle AI is something I would buy.

[woeful iron]

clearly he's working @ TBA now instead

very far from #career-chat now though

[wary idol]

Main reason is that I got a full time job in the meantime and got no time to work on the plugins

With that said vehicle physics is getting a complete overhaul within a month or 2

[wary idol]

Yeah I agree, lets move any further discussion to #lounge

[sly hatch]

Ok, thanks man. I'll if I have to.

[torpid sentinel]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyy 🙂

[woeful iron]

what has cereal ever done to you

[torpid sentinel]

everything 😄

you like it then? 😄

[woeful iron]

love it, just had some earlier

[torpid sentinel]

tbf so did I 😄

[woeful iron]

cereal is unfortunately not part of my career, so can't discuss it in this chat

[torpid sentinel]

what is part of your career?

[woeful iron]

stuff...

coding and the likes

[torpid sentinel]

😮

Stuff??

Like stuff stuff? 😮

or just stuff stuff stuff?

[woeful iron]

yes

[torpid sentinel]

nice ! 😄

love a good program 😄

I suck at it tho 😄

[woeful iron]

Should probably move to #lounge if not on topic though, don't want to anger scary mods

[torpid sentinel]

what is the topic :D?

for example, if I have a Job I'm looking to fill, can I post it herE?

[woeful iron]

no, that would have to go through the job board

see #instructions

this chat if for discussing working in the industry, getting a job and so on

[torpid sentinel]

okie doke 😄

pretty quiet then because of NDA's?

[woeful iron]

mostly people asking how to get hired, or needing advice on career directions / college and all that

[plucky hatch]

? linkedin erased my article. I was going to edit it, but closed the window and now the text is gone

[plucky hatch]

You should always write content in an offline editor or at least one with a good autosave and recover function like 365 or GoogleDocs

well, I didn't lose anything. I copied it from my own site, but for some reason linkedin made it blank. The article is there but with no characters

Cant you just paste the content back in then? Why are you posting this in career chat?

[woeful iron]

this post is ruining his career clearly

[plucky hatch]

was searching for why my article was blanked out of nowhere. Found some guy complaining that he has lost everything blablabla, linkedin supposedly banned him. Then I look at the comments and many ppl accusing him of doing a clickbait because all his articles were there, nothing deleted.

[round radish]

The real problem here is, you're using LinkedIn.

[plucky hatch]

is there an alternative do linkedin?

do recruiters think the same?

and you refused?

pasted 10 articles in my profile and then, I have no nothing more to add. Except for "dropped out of college"

[round radish]

All a profile might do is make somebody notice you, but beyond that you need the skills.

[modern relic]

"how do I get a job?" "get good lmao"

Sorry the first part should read "how do I make the big bucks ?"

I'd probably fail. I should look up interview questions or something

[shut token]

Depending on the questions, it can be a roll of the dice honestly. I would probably fail some brain teaser questions honestly. Those are dumb.

[modern relic]

Lol

[shut token]

But if you fail fizzbuzz...well....

[modern relic]

I've heard some good questions can be situations that the current team struggled with and solve already just to see what they come up with

I think I'd fail a lot of interviews. I don't have broad enough knowledge in a lot of areas and I don't have specific enough knowledge in other areas. My solution was to just make my own business lmao

[shut token]

Could lead into a problem where you don't know how to vet potential candidates though.

So could be a curse in disguise 😅

[modern relic]

Ye absolutely. I'm not claiming to be an expert who sucks at interviewing. I would absolutely hire myself but I also need to start my career at some point

[plucky hatch]

Now I know what was wrong with my other project. https://i.postimg.cc/zGyCyxmm/new4.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/YSptXstZ/470955111.png I was attempting LD and Env Art at the same time, made a huge mess and I just couldn't continue it.

collected a bunch of references but I lacked skills for both LD and EA, this was doomed to fail.

for the first project to put in my portfolio I'm going for env art. I think it better resonates with my already existing maps for the old unreal.

[bold coyote]

Hi, any tips for entering game industry as UI/UX designer? Currently finishing my PhD and looking for opportunities to get some game-related experiences (I have general UI/UX experiences already). Remote cooperation seems to be problematic for junior/internship positions.

I have started with some small UE5 UI demo, but that will take some time and not sure if that will help.

[plucky hatch]

no idea other than looking for portfolios of ppl who do that

[bold coyote]

I do not mean where to get inspiration, I am thinking about where to get some project/job.

[plucky hatch]

ppl with portfolios could have "worked for" in their profile

modding communities?

[brave forge]

Might be best to reach out to the mods privately

DMs are open I believe

[pastel estuary]

yups

[compact ivy]

So. I need some career advice. I am looking to pivot away from Game Dev and maybe look into simulation support for companies who need them. How would one transition into that career field? I've been playing around in Unreal's VR Template for the last few days and I find it engaging.

[ashen lynx]

Depends on the role, but for most, applying directly and without any specific preparation works.

Shared skillset is perfectly transferable between two

[compact ivy]

How would I find these opportunities? I know they exist, but I don't know how to search for them aside of googling, which hasn't been very effective for me.

[ashen lynx]

Which position ?

[compact ivy]

Just VR developer except works for some company that isn't games.

[ashen lynx]

yee I doubt such thing as VR developer exists.

[compact ivy]

Maybe I should reach out to a recruiter.

[proud spear]

There are quite a bit of VR developer roles for non-games (especially U.S. military related)

you can find a few on linkedin

[plucky hatch]

I work in non-games and lead a team of designs/developers doing a lot of VR. Most companies outsource this type of work, so you need to focus on who are the big suppliers rather than companies themselves.
Linkedin is a good source for figuring this out, especially if you are following the main Enterprise players at Epic, see who they are conversing with and with whom they are writing articles about etc.

[compact ivy]

Gotcha. Ty

[brave forge]

This is spot on in my experience

One client even said quite clearly "we aren't interested in doing this in-house, it's not our core business or speciality. We'd prefer to hire a studio that does other jobs too and brings that expanded knowledge and skillset to our next project"

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, our clients are quite big too including people like Ikea, Volvo, Polestar, Electrolux but they still outsource all of this type of work. To many agencies too I might add.

[brave forge]

Yeah I was in the automotive space. Possibly was a competing bidder at one stage 🙂 left the company a few years back

[plucky hatch]

Ahh cool, yes I think automotive takes the most press but there is an enormous amount of other stuff too. Fashion is a very fun segment to work with, mainly since a lot of this is very new to them and they have no problem spending a lot of money to try things out 🤣

[brave forge]

Yep absolutely. And it makes total sense right. When the client said that I was like "damn, that's actually a really good point"

[brave forge]

Yeah we did a pitch for an in-store magic mirror for sunglasses, that was interesting

[plucky hatch]

haha I also did a pitch for a magic mirror but for shirts, also ...interesting 😬

[brave forge]

Lots of money for silly ideas 🙂 the fact it was in-store made no sense, like why not just try it on for real?

Ooo shirts would be difficult!

We did a cotton configurator kind of thing, but didn't have to conform it to a magic mirror style setup. That would be next level

[balmy fossil]

I was wondering, what are the chances of getting a job on a unreal engine project as a starting developer (beginner) if you have a web development background? I guess when applying it helps to have a finished project. I am wondering if there are people in here who that have experience with that?

[icy sun]

Why is manny not responding

[woeful aspen]

does anyone recommend a course from a training center, school or similar with the topic realtime 3D artist / VP? Im planning to combine it with my current work! so far I was looking at CG Spectrum...

[pure kettle]

You might have better chance making and maintaining the website for the studio you're working with

[balmy fossil]

Yeah, i figured it would not have too much added value 😉 thanks!

[pure kettle]

On a positive side, many smaller scale studios have lackluster websites (webdev is not easy), so you could offer services in that regard.

[balmy fossil]

Yeah, I kind of want to get out of that 🙂 I'll just keep grinding on my own game first, then we'll see what it might bring along

[plucky hatch]

interesting, or scary? some profile in linkedin from Dubai liked my post. It's some life coach company from Dubai

I though so. I used a salad of hashtags including psychology related words

[shut token]

IE - all of LinkedIn

[plucky hatch]

probably depends on your job, on the design side of things I probably get about 75% of my work and contacts via Linkedin. But thats a lot more formal stuff not making games. But thats where I speak to the Epic team, Adobe, Substance, Autodesk, Varjo and any other suppliers and about 90% of my clients and new business.
If you don't just follow random people and accept invites from random people, and use weird tags like #psycology (😬 looking at you @plucky hatch ) you can keep a pretty concise network.

If I make a post my target audience is pretty bang on what I am aiming for. You get the odd spam person filtering through but it's pretty easy to filter those out with various options.

[crisp atlas]

The chances that you'd get a good quality job are kind of low. But the lack of experience in the engine is easy to solve, the engine is free. Build something small (very limited scope) on your own time and you've gone from no experience to "some experience" which is a big difference.

[balmy fossil]

Thanks @crisp atlas!

[plucky hatch]

I think you must mean someone else @crisp atlas ?

[crisp atlas]

@balmy fossil I've hired people into the right roles where they had no professional experience because they taught themselves how to do something like this on their own time. Don't get too discouraged thinking the work doesn't count if it's for a personal project. If you can show your work and speak to it intelligently in an interview it totally counts.

My general apologies for being a boomer about discord on mobile, I'll figure out the UI eventually 🤣

[raven ginkgo]

Hey guys, is there any good websites to find game dev jobs other than Indeed and LinkedIn?

[woeful iron]

yes

[deep mural]

I should probably aim for college but it'd make sense to do some math so, what math should I do?

[proud spear]

Here's a helpful document. You can find some job sites in there somewhere https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ingVlCEftStqau1KjGqm0P7M44YlY3G5H2rCD0aSXDY/edit#gid=1277073820

[raven ginkgo]

Thank you!

[granite solar]

A site that I think should be a lot more known is https://gracklehq.com

[raven ginkgo]

Algebra, Logarithms, Graph Theory

[raven ginkgo]

Nice, thanks!

[deep mural]

Never heard of these (besides algebra obviously), thanks!

[raven ginkgo]

Especially Linear Algebra

[proud spear]

What can be considered "highly proficient" in c++? What are some benchmarks I could measure myself to know if I'm proficient enough

[shut token]

If you are on par with Laura or siliex.

[steady pewter]

Submit an improvement to C++ committee, get it accepted.

[near bridge]

Would anyone be able to provide a list of requirements they look for in a UI engineer? Are they still considered software engineers or should it be expected that they'll have more experience in UI/UX. Also what kind of salary is common for a mid-senior level engineer?

[woeful iron]

job listings for UI engineer could probably give you a list of requirements

[rain geyser]

hey i want to start working on the industry of making games being a 3d artist, i know how to use blender and i can defend quite well with it but i am not sure how to transform that into an enviroment into unreal (i know to make enviroments into blender but getting it into unreal is kinda hard idk why) And which programs i should learn besides blender, i know to do procedural texturing and export it from blender to unreal but should i learn to do it with substance painter? And should i learn embergen to do some vfx or something or should i learn niagara? And also sometimes is a little pain in the ass to use unreal because it is a bit laggy for me (i have a 1050ti) and i think if i disable virtual shadows and lumen it will work faster but idk if its better to not because it look preatier

[mint grove]

I was wondering if someone might be able to give me some constructive feedback on my work so far. https://youtube.com/@luxdaemonis6571

I really want to land an internship this summer!

Im a game designer

With a focus on level, quest,combat and puzzle design.

[green oyster]

Definitely learn substance painter. I would skip on vfx and focus on 3d workflows. You can also learn some zbrush

[rain geyser]

i started sculping not that much time ago, do you recomend to better sculp in zbrush than blender? And what do you recomnd me for making enviroments, i am not sure of if i should do an entire scene in blender and exporting it to unreal, or what to do, maybe 1 asset of each and duplicating it on unreal? im not sure what workflow is better

[green oyster]

A lot of artists started using Blender, but I think Zbrush is still pretty much industry standard. I suggest getting some of the most popular free enviros on the UE marketplace and analyzing how they were done. I usually do a blockout, figure out individual assets, export them in UE and reassemble the scene, but it depends

[plucky hatch]

If you want to make environments for Unreal then Houdini is a better choice to learn over ZBrush. It's probably better to focus on something, environments, VFX and sculpting all all very different trades and while knowing them all is good that can be very difficult for a newbie.

[green oyster]

I use/used quite a bit of Zbrush for stuff like rocks, wood, doing welds, doing damage and dents, etc. But Blender's sculpting is not bad at all

[rain geyser]

why houdini? isnt houdini better for vfx? oh you saying it for vfx so i know more for diffferent stugg. What about embergen? What would be better to learn embergen or houdini? I think a lot of companies uses embergen instead of houdini but i dont know what is better to learn, i know that houdini is harder

[chilly sundial]

houdini's proceudral elements make it very nice for environment art

[plucky hatch]

No I mean for making the actual environments, meshes etc. I use Houdni for all commercial projects that need environments, I don't meet many environment artist's who cant use it in some respect and I certainly would not hire one who didn't know it.

[pastel estuary]

learning zbrush and houdini will def. set you up for a good career for at least the foreseeable future.

adding substance to that as well.

[green oyster]

I feel attacked 😅 altough at my old studio (outsource enviro art) we never used houdini. We did deliver modular parts sometimes

[pastel estuary]

and in a vfx case, knowing embergen is not a must, but its gaining popularity really fast.
Same for houdini.

Though in my case, I never used either.

I might take up embergen soon though for an upcoming project.

but having a good understanding of modeling, vertices, how shaders work, how to properly prepare uv's and textures will def. be handy, if not mandatory

while I suck at it myself, a great understanding of math def. helps bleeploads as well

the better you are at math and shaders, the more valueble you'll be.

[oblique ice]

agree, substance must have

[pastel estuary]

hugs @oblique ice

[rain geyser]

but isnt blender good enought for that? i have used blender for 2 years now, and i thought i should learn maya because i know that a lot of indusrties like using maya more than blender, but why houdini? Isnt better blender or maya for modeling? Just asking beacuase i really dont know and i want to know

[rain geyser]

i know and using the math nodes in blender at least is so fuking hard to understand some times. Im like wtf am i doing, im adding and multiplying stuff xD

[pastel estuary]

I dont get much further than math related to -1 up to 1 myself XD

[green oyster]

3dsmax is the best for modeling 😅 but sadly it gets little usage in the game industry

[plucky hatch]

Up to you, but you wont get far professionally just knowing Blender. It's an extremely competitive market now more than ever. Also you need to define what you want to do, you have mentioned modelling, sculpting, environments and VFX.

Modelling is subjective, what are you modelling, a person, a prop, a game asset, a car, a landscape? Depending on what you are doing you would use different tools. For landscape and environment Houdini would be a better choice to future-proof yourself.

[rain geyser]

okey so enviroment and landscape with houdini and game assets and props with blender and to sculpt the details oh a highpoly with zbrush and after that texturing and bakeing with substance and lastly import it into unreal or whatever game engine? That would be a good workflow? should i learn unity besides unreal?

[plucky hatch]

Well what is it you want to know/do for your job, I have been doing this over 15 years and even I can't do all of those things 🤷‍♂️

So you want to be more of a generalist then?

Maybe have a go of all the different skills and see what sticks and you enjoy, then you can decide what to peruse further. The best designers are the ones who actually enjoy and are passionate about their area.

[rain geyser]

i really dont know, in general i started doing like game assets, and usually i do game assets, like weapons, swords etc. But with time i started doing enviroments aswell because i felt like i was missing something to do. And now i feel like i am missing something like doing vfx or characters. But still the thing i mostly know to do is 3d assets or game assets in general, but idk i feel so lost, there are so many techniques and things and different styles. Like usually i do or i try to do photorealistic assets but lately i started to learn stylized aswell and its easier to do that, but im trying to do hard surface assets and thats so hard for me and i dont understand well the logic behind it. Should i focus more on learning more styles and learn it better than trying to do more landscapes or learning character design? idk i feel i dont do enoguht things for work on a game industry and i feel so lost

[plucky hatch]

Well it's hard to say without knowing your ability, you should post your portfolio if you need tips on what tom improve. Weapons, swords and game assets are classed as 'hard surface' fyi, so I don't understand you say you are struggling with that.
You know that in real life, unless you work in a tiny studio, you would not be doing all those things at the same time, but more likely one thing, or even just small part of one thing. It's good to show range in your portfolio to show you understand the pipeline and are competent, but don't stress that you would actually need to know all of those things inside out to be working in the industry.
(Ok your portfolio is in your bio and I checked) I would focus on your modelling and materials as a first step before tying to move on to more advanced things like VFX, landscapes etc.

[green oyster]

I would stay clear of doing characters, it's hard and you need a lot of anatomy knowledge, it's a different career (unless you have a few years to learn). At my old studios enviro artists did mostly stuff like buildings (modular, authoring textures), adjacent props but sometimes vehicles and hard surface characters (armor or mechs). We never did landscapes or vfx or anything like that

[rain geyser]

okey i have a clear idea to what to do to improve my materials, to use more substance and more layers and details and etc. But i am not sure what to do for the modelling, like doing more weapons maybe? Im not sure what to do to improve this. Looking at random objects of my house and making it or imagining different objects and doing it? And as a 3d modeller should i know for example to make a house or/and a room? or thats more for the enviroment artist? Sorry for making this much questions, i feel so lost, like i have studying and doind 3d things for over 2 years and i never felt that lost in what i should do

[rain geyser]

hmm ok i understand. Yeah i tryied to learn anatomy a few times but it always was so hard to

[plucky hatch]

I would work on the ones you have rather than just making more of the same. Here is an example of someone who is a junior making game ready weapon props: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/28NB9a

I would say you need to put in some work to improve overall if you compare it to your own gun: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/d81OWK

'i feel so lost, like i have studying and doind 3d things for over 2 years and i never felt that lost in what i should do' - I was studying and practicing 3D for 5 years before I got my first job, two years is nothing really.

[rain geyser]

okey i will do this, thank you very much for your advices ❤️

and btw for 3d modelling should i start using houdini aswell or with blender i am good? Or i should learn a bit of maya aswell?

[plucky hatch]

I would just stick with Blender you have a long way to go still to get to a professional level, no point making it harder for yourself adding in another tool. When learning to model, it's doesn't really matter what tool you use. When you become good and understand topology, moving to another tool will not be too difficult. But may as well stick with free tools for now, no point spending any money until you need to.

[rain geyser]

okey thanks

[oblique ice]

your stuff is fine, just keep up the good work, and keep trying 👍🏻

[round radish]

There's far too much random damage to this and it looks like it's regular.

I.e. evenly spaced out and repeating with only slight variation.

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, I was not using it as a benchmark, just that this is a junior artist but the quality level is still above OP in general.

It was more to show that in the portfolio there is a greater breakdown of the asset, materials, construction, mesh both high poly and low poly.

[round radish]

I was just giving feedback of the thing I noticed 😛

[plucky hatch]

Are you talking about this one? https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/m0_Q8xHYoQptFVN1X_B32dT0-hsnbsp_kH7UaFlAgQo/%3F1627363444/https/cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/039/928/743/large/alexandru-ioan-ak47-1.jpg

[round radish]

Yeah.

[plucky hatch]

Oh sorry, I thought you meant the other one.

[round radish]

🙂

I did reply to the one I was talking about lol

[plucky hatch]

yes sorry, damn discord phone 😂

[round radish]

Hehe.

I think the other one does it quite well, actually. I didn't open the link, so I'm only looking at the preview images.

But the wood looks non-regular, it's not glossy (clear it's not just out of the factory)

Other than the trigger.

[plucky hatch]

Yes, it's a competitive market for sure if you just want to make assets, the bar is very high, i'm glad its not my job 👀

[uneven field]

hello fellow devs, quick question about how many failled projects should a person quit coding ?

is 4 project reasonable ?

[plucky hatch]

Depends on what you class as 'failed'

[uneven field]

for mobile build <100 downloads

[crisp atlas]

Game dev is a very hits driven business. I would not take failures as an indicator that you aren't a good coder. There are tons on reasons games don't get downloaded that have nothing to do with code quality. It's true you may have to think about other ways to support yourself economically... Luckily coding is a good marketable skill. How many times you try to publish a video game before you give up is not something anyone else can answer for you but you. I would say that 4 failed projects is pretty much normal/a given for most people in the industry to say the least.

[shut token]

Actually, for a vast majority of people, the statement releasedGames <= 1 evaluates to true.

[uneven field]

oke totally agreed, but however some project do take up 6-12 months to polish into a playable game, 4 project is like 2-3 year work for a solo indie dev

idk better to stay positive and hope for the best

[crisp atlas]

Yeah I hear you... It's a tough visit for indies for sure

[pure kettle]

Depends on your threshold of giving up

It's not the same as setting it aside due to circumstances

[oblique ice]

not relate, i failed at blueprint until now, but fail is good, just to keep trying and learning, maybe fail is help to some people and some people don't like it

[plucky hatch]

What's the best way to employee low poly model makers? Can't seem to find any.

[steady pewter]

Providing a competitive offer on job board sounds pretty good way.

[woeful iron]

Most projects fail tbh, I don't think there's a point that you should stop coding at all. If this is supposed to be your main form of income though, maybe find something else to support you financially, enough programming jobs out there. You never hear of all the games that failed, but there's plenty. Even people that have made successful indie titles have very often had multiple "failed" games before that.

I don't think you should necessarily quantify your work by the amount of downloads the game receives though. More by how you feel about it and how people react to it.

The download count would be a combination of the quality of work (related to your coding) but also business, marketing and just luck, so not a reason to quit coding in its entirety over

[analog agate]

I would stick to blender. if you want to become a weapon artist and you have extra time to learn new modelling tools, it makes sense to learn sculpting (maybe zbrush because it has some nice tools but not necessary, you can also sculpt in blender) and a CAD software (i use Fusion360 but there are many CAD softwares to choose from).
But those are more fancy things and you should first stick with blender and improve yourself, until you reach a decent skill level. Sculpting and CAD modelling isn't something you really need to get a job or to make good models, it just makes your work easier and can save you time when you already are an expert in blender and need new things to further improve yourself. Remember, you never stop learning, even if you are working in the industry for 40 year.

Also i just read that you make environments and are wondering which engine to choose or which software. Overall i would advise you to pick one thing (environment design or hard surface modelling for instance) and learn that first. If you try to learn multiple things at the same time you most likely will fail. You can still do both, hard surface modelling and environment design, but you should pick one and primary focus on that first until you reach a good level there.

For the question "Unity or Unreal" i would say just give both of them a try, watch a tutorial for both and after a few days or a week decide which one you want to use. I work with both engines for some time now, they both have their strength, but i have to say if you are more into high-end graphics and 3d art only, you will probably choose unreal, but that's about personal preference.

[meager pagoda]

Hi:) There is a very cool playlist on youtube channel Riot Games - So You Wanna Make Games?? Maybe it will be helpful to understand what exactly you want to do. For example, before watching I never heard about Technical artist job, and now I think that this is my goal for next years:)

[rain geyser]

thanks for your advices ❤️ i think i will stick with 3d modelling in general, like hard surfice, sylized and photorealistic, and try to learn those better first before enviroment. The only thing i am not sure is, what is considered an enviroment artist, for example doing an alley or doing a bedroom that would be an enviroment artist or a 3d modeller should do it?

[rain geyser]

hi thanks for the recomendation, i have already seen those videos some years ago, but maybe i will watch some again to remember

[pure kettle]

You'd need some extra effort to do hard surface modelling in Blender though

At least personally I found hard surface in Blender to be a huge PITA

[analog agate]

I don't think there is a clear line where you can differentiate between an environment artist and a 3d modeller. Often there is a smooth transition between the different roles. There are projects where the environment artist is only placing 3d assets into the scene and placing lightsources, maybe doing some optimisation and other projects where he also makes simple 3d assets or some texture work. Overall it is best to not only know the tasks of your role, but also the tasks and tools your team uses in similar areas.

What i mean with that: if you are a concept artist and you are responsible for making character concepts. It is not only good to be good at sketching characters, but also good if you know the basics of modelling. This can help you make better concept sketches for the 3d artist, because then you know what the 3d artist needs to start working and you can help him a bit. You will most likely never work on a project alone all the time, so it is importaint to be able to work as a team.

That is also something many studios look for. Only being good at modelling isn't always enough, you also have to show them that you are able to work in a team, communicate and know what the others are doing and what their roles mean (you don't need to know everything, but if you place assets in the scene also know the basics on how to make your own assets).

Another example. If you are a character artist and you are modelling a character someone else has to rig and animate later, it is still good practice to have experience about rigging and animating, even if it's not your job in this project. Because this can help you to adjust the topology of your mesh so it works without problems later with the rig and animations..

[rain geyser]

i understand thanks ❤️

[mint grove]

What would be the best way to build a level design portfolio in ue5? I have a portfolio with a few completed projects.

[pure kettle]

Can you show yours first?

[drifting rampart]

How much knowledge do you need to apply for game programming jobs ? Do I need to make my own game ?

[broken yacht]

I would say that’ a guaranteed. It is also impossible to get a job with a portfolio. I would say work on a 1-2 games for your portfolio then start applying.

[drifting rampart]

@broken yacht Thank you. I'm already working on 1 for my portfolio. I was wondering if it's enough, hence the question.
Is it the same for jobs in 3d as in artist jobs or are there better opportunities as compared to programming

[broken yacht]

Ah sorry I must have read it wrong. But I would say 1 project is decent but if you can get 2 good games then it will highly increase your chances as it shows you have a lot of experience and shows you can work on projects for a long time.

I would say make 1 apply and if you don’t get a response after about 100 applications I would work on a second game. Then try again.

[drifting rampart]

Will do. Thank you again for your help

@broken yacht

[broken yacht]

No problem. Good luck!

[ocean musk]

they want money

you cant employ without money even if its rev-share

i got one question how would i go about posting a joboffer

manny dms dont work anymore

[pure kettle]

use the slash command

e.g. /job salary

[plucky hatch]

You can, its a type of employment. Not for everyone.

[pure kettle]

And no guarantee of finishing in time

[plucky hatch]

How does that got to do with anything?

[round radish]

And most of the time it never actually pays out, even if the game is released 😂

[chilly sundial]

Because rev share people generally want the project to finish so they can at least have a chance of money.

If you want someone to do something for you, you pay them, then and there.

You asked for the best way to employ people, that requires money.

You can't expect to do everything, including using other people's knowledge and time for free.

[pure kettle]

And for the record, free open source projects thrive from either donations or other means of income

[plucky hatch]

Mostly if there's a better place to look for modellers rather then developers.

[plucky hatch]

@chilly sundial It's a good incentive to get like minded individuals who want a project to succeed and believe in it rather then people who in it for the money. Passive Income is something worth having. The game or any projects do not have to be released in order to get shares.

[pure kettle]

What if, say, I prioritize on my main income more than your rev share project, and as I'm not getting something in return while in development of it, I can do it whenever I want even if it takes so long, or bail out without notice?

What matters more is having something valuable in return while in the process of development, more so than the revenue share bonus which isn't guaranteed at all.

The former is what incentivize someone to give priority to paid projects and finish the tasks as soon as possible.

And no, marketing won't save you, nor giving everyone the warranty to prioritize your rev-share project

[plucky hatch]

Then obviously the estimated % will no longer be applied to the individual and the mechanic / model they worked or or would work on would be given to someone else.

[chilly sundial]

To be honest most rev shares have no passive income. Because they fail. I'd rather fail my own dream then contribute my free time to someone else's. Rev share has no incentive.

[chilly sundial]

So despite them doing work for you, but needing to pay bills and eat food, they have no lost what they put in

You're outta your mind

[pure kettle]

And just discredit everyone who bail out before release?

God forbid I worked for you

[chilly sundial]

I swear that's at least one human rights violation

You don't want an employee, you want someone who's passion you can abuse

[plucky hatch]

You mentioned several points which violate the employment contract. Obviously action will be taken for that.

As to credit there was no mention of discrediting what so ever.

[pure kettle]

It's not the same as a team working on a game for free and also seeking for VC in the process.

[chilly sundial]

An employment contract built on the idea of not getting paid for anything other than 110% effort. What a great idea

[plucky hatch]

Ever heard of investing @chilly sundial?

[chilly sundial]

Rev share is not investing

[pure kettle]

Investing labor with nothing in return in the process? Yeah nah

[chilly sundial]

Investing doesn't require me to dedicate work hours of highly skilled labour for little promise in retuen

[plucky hatch]

There are some Discords and Websites to look but only for 💰 not rev share.

[plucky hatch]

Ah. thanks, will keep looking.

[pure kettle]

Good luck, you're going to need that one more than convincing publishers

[plucky hatch]

Thank you, already have 4 great modellers.

[plucky hatch]

You wont find a professional modeller who will rev-sahre, but you will have more luck looking places where hobbyists or students hang out.

[pure kettle]

And even then there'll be no guarantee they'll be on board permanently.

[plucky hatch]

No one is, even paid.

[pure kettle]

Not to mention you're willing to cut away revenue share to contributors who quit before release

[plucky hatch]

It would be very unusual to be in a real contract with somebody and them not be on board, thats why we have notice periods. Ive never had someone just disappear in over 15 years of doing this. Not to mention doing so would ***seriously ***damage your reputation as a designer.

[onyx relic]

Any seasoned professional will not take a 0-compensation during development job banking on a revenue share on delivery. For 1.) there's a documented likelihood that even a viable, well backed project by well meaning professionals often fail due to unforseen circumstances 2.) Every other professional they are in communication with is constantly and actively warning them against the dangers of rev-share work.

[pure kettle]

This alone is a huge red flag

[chilly sundial]

Yeah if you're paying me I will offer some courtesy but if you can't give me payment for my work on a game likely to fail, I don't owe you a thing

[plucky hatch]

Please re-read what you said previously to what you are referring.

[onyx relic]

I've used revenue share commitments to bargain down the budgets of developers/designers/artists we couldn't afford to pay their full rate, but never seen someone successfully complete a project on promises of revenue share alone

[pure kettle]

Then obviously the estimated % will no longer be applied to the individual and the mechanic / model they worked or or would work on would be given to someone else.

Is it wrong that I interpret it as "if you leave, you're not getting paid at all"

At least in paid jobs one would still getting paid in the process even if they left mid-development

[onyx relic]

And worth noting is that even then, most of those professionals were also at the relative beginning of their careers, with gaps in their work schedule that we were able to fill. They were fully and consistently encouraged to pursue other, full priced contracts before ours.

hehe. Preparing shaders 69,420. That's funny. Heckin shaders.

[pure kettle]

The whole "paying in the process" is what incentivize someone to do the job in higher priority, and in turn getting stuff done in faster rate than what rev-share/unpaid projects would

[chilly sundial]

oh yeah rev share in the form of "I can only afford X% of your rate, but in return we will offer X% of revenue generated past launch" is perfectly fine
revshare on the premise of "nothing until the game launches" is predatory at best

expecting that rev share and timely work, despite people needing to actually live off of money, is abusive imo

[plucky hatch]

If you "bail out without notice", "I can do it whenever " and deliver half finished content with thousands of issues or nothing at all and do not communicate. Then thats completely stupid.

[pure kettle]

I'd rather collab with someone saying "I have this project, it's currently unpaid, but don't rush yourself contributing to it"

[chilly sundial]

^^^

thats the only good no payment rev share. "I recognize i have nothing to pay you currently, and will have to offer percentages of the games profit, so don't rush yourself to work on this, its a passion project after all"

[pure kettle]

But you don't give any security and incentive to raise my priority for you, so lose-lose situation

[chilly sundial]

if you want it done like work hours it isnt an investment or a passion project, and you are just abusing the passion of the people who havent yet realised they are being taken advantage of.

[plucky hatch]

If you like a specific idea, content creator and or want something unique and have it played by many then that's the incentive.

Your mindset is set on money with once job complete, move on to the next one.

[pure kettle]

lmao no

[chilly sundial]

unfortunately that isnt an incentive. the world needs money to run. i like the idea of a new fallout game, im not going to devote my every waking hour to doing it for free.
liking an idea doesnt pay rent. wanting something unique doesnt pay the bills. liking a content creator doesnt put food in my mouth.

[pure kettle]

I got other things to do, including my own stuff, who are you to ask me priority with nothing in return in the process?

[plucky hatch]

What pays for the computer to model with and the licences for the software you need? Passion and rev share don't pay the bills.

[pure kettle]

Consider that total conversion mods like Fallout London took several years to develop

[chilly sundial]

you said if people pritorize main income they wont get paid lmao. thats not a side project

[pure kettle]

At least with mods, payment isn't expected, and it's often "take your time"

[chilly sundial]

if you dont want to pay people, dont expect timely contribution, nor quality.
if you want both of those things. pay a competitive rate

its really that simple

[plucky hatch]

@chilly sundial sums it up well

That's what you think and your entitled to your opinion.

It's not really an opinion though, it's informed information.

[pure kettle]

It's a hard truth.

[plucky hatch]

Well I have a variety of individuals who work for me in various capacities from Development to Community who would disagree.

[chilly sundial]

thats not really an opinion. thats called employment.

do you think microsoft runs on "I'll pay you later"

do you think any successful org does for that matter

[plucky hatch]

The ones you mentioned are already successfully established financially and can employee anyone in the world they desire to.

[pure kettle]

But what about their earlier days?

[subtle needle]

Chiming in! I'm sorry to say this, but you're being a bit naive when it comes to game development. What you say might work for a game jam, where everybody gets excited about a project for a short period of time. I take it as this is the first game you're developing, is that correct?

[green oyster]

that's how one of my friends worked for a project. and unbelievably, the project succeded, the dev found himself with a ton of money. but guess what, coming face to face with money, suddenly he didn't want to part with it. and found some breach of contract excuse to terminate some of the people

[plucky hatch]

Yeah, that's the harsh reality. and people are very untrusted of revenue share work.

[chilly sundial]

i wonder why. its almost as if the people that dont want to pay employees arent ready to run a company.
im sure they sleep well at night too because it was just a passion project

[plucky hatch]

Second game.

[pure kettle]

Working together for free in the meantime while the leader seeks for funding and then paying everyone in the process is not what I'd like to call a rev-share project

[subtle needle]

Was the first one ever finished and released?

[green oyster]

especially for standard revshare, ..they don't want to pay money now, they probably won't later on the slim chance the project is completed

[plucky hatch]

Delivered on schedule and released, with 304 Positive Reviews. Constant Updates happen every month.

[pure kettle]

Yeah, the thing is that rev-share offers no security on how you're getting paid.

[subtle needle]

And everyone involved got their fair share? I would like to see it, really. Would you mind sharing the link to it?

[chilly sundial]

it offers even less when the employer hits every single scam buzzword of it being "passive income", an "investment", and "only for people with a passion, not ones that want money"

[pure kettle]

Unfortunately, this isn't charity, which even then charity organizations and thriving FOSS projects pay people working in the process by means of donations/patrons

[plucky hatch]

Crowd Funding Campaigns and Patreon is also good ways too.

Rev share doesn't only have to be after a project is complete.

[pure kettle]

But that's not revenue share

[pure kettle]

If your definition of revenue is that, sure, I guess

[plucky hatch]

In our contract we refer it to net profits which are sales income minus all the expenditure.

[pure kettle]

But do you pay your contributors in the process?

Not talking about after release, but in the process of development, before release.

[plucky hatch]

It's not an incentive for joining, but we do have website store, and sales income already.

[pure kettle]

Again, do you pay your contributors in the process, within the project, by any means?

If yes, then that's not revenue share.

[plucky hatch]

Yes. Through Revenue Share.

[pure kettle]

You see, when we talk about revenue share, we always refer to work being paid after the project worked on is making sales, and not being paid in the process.

Using income from past sales of other projects to pay your employees in the process isn't classified as rev-share

[plucky hatch]

Revenue sharing is the distribution of revenue, the total amount of income generated by the sale of goods and services among the stakeholders or contributors. Source > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_sharing

direct sales of the company.

It does not have to be a particular project.

We have also applied for a Epic Mega Grant, and that be distributed if achieved before.

You can read a whole more about it here https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/010915/how-does-revenue-sharing-work-practice.asp#:~:text=Revenue sharing is a business,losses among associated financial actors.

To me at least and to my current employee's its a huge investment opportunity, You invest your time and effort for a passionate project you are working on in return for revenue share of all incoming sales within the company.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, thanks for telling me how to find non-revenue likers 🤣

[pure kettle]

Hot take: Employees don't give a crap on how employers earn the funding, as long as it's legal, and as long as employers pay the employee in the process with security.

[plucky hatch]

How much of an opportunity though? A decent modeller is getting upwards of €300 per day.

[plucky hatch]

Quite a lot.

[green oyster]

That's disgusting. Where, where are they earning that money?

[plucky hatch]

Can you show me a model worth $300?

[plucky hatch]

UK, Sweden, France, Germany, US 🤷‍♂️ .
When I first started off I was getting about €130 per day, this was back in 2010. By 2016 my day rate was €400.

[pure kettle]

In all honesty, this whole convo boils down to clashing consensus about revenue share, but I still stand corrected with what I say in this context.

[green oyster]

Well I do happen to be in Eastern Europe 😅 any remote employer comes to us for cheaper stuff. Probably something like 30E per hour is the most we can earn here

[plucky hatch]

Sure, although this is probably closer to €10,000

[subtle needle]

@plucky hatch I'm sorry, mate. But the link you sent me is to a game that is still in early access, two years after being released (it's not finished). And also, I read in the comments that the game is being developed by one person only (so there is no sharing of revenue).

You see how this example doesn't apply for a full team kind of development?

[plucky hatch]

You should look into Unreal Automotive, we work with studios in Poland, Kosovo and Ukraine, they charge a lot more than €30 an hour. Enterprise Unreal will pay you many factors more than games in general.

[pure kettle]

That do be looking cool
Probably best fit for racing sim game

[plucky hatch]

These are not for games but content for the configurator https://www.volvocars.com/se/build/c40-electric?cbv=1&gclid=96936e4b704d1f3504950d89b3b51d58&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=96936e4b704d1f3504950d89b3b51d58&utm_campaign=se_masterbrand_range_consideration-action_alwayson_bgn_alon_mxd_swe-G13696688335&utm_content=Volvo+Cars_EX&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=volvo+cars

The models would be too heavy for gaming.

[plucky hatch]

Ah 🤣 we don't need anything close to your level and detail. That's very performance demanding.

[green oyster]

Hmm I will look into it - is there anything different required versus making models for games (other than more geo)? I have mostly worked on game ready stuff in my career

[plucky hatch]

Here's our little tank.

[plucky hatch]

You were asking about rates, if I hire a modeller to work on a tank or a car or a chair, they still charge the same rate. We don't pay people less because the subject is easier.

[plucky hatch]

Not really, topology is topology, you can just get away with using much more of it. Knowing Max is probably essential as Blender > Unreal for large datasets is wobbly at best. I do all my own work in Blender personally but then I give it to a colleague to re-prep in Max for datasmith,

[pure kettle]

But it's for Valve Volvo, one of the largest automotive companies.

Talking about fancy cars here

[plucky hatch]

Remember, when a freelancer the cost you charge is not just pure profit. Out of every hour you charge for you need to account for:

Salary
Sick Pay
Pension
Tax
Healthcare
Holiday Pay
Transport
Office equipment and furniture
Software Licenses
Hardware (+Maintenance)
General admin

So if you charge €10 an hour, then after all of the above you may only really be getting €5 in the bank to spend. If you work full time an employee, your company is covering the majority of that list, if not all of it, so your 'salary' is much less, then maybe you only get €5 an hour.

For myself what I have charged on my journey
2010: €130 per day (0 year experience)
2019: €900+ per day (9 years experience)

These costs might seem high, but then my expenses are high, so I didn't get anywhere near that amount in my bank to spend.

(edit-formatting)

[green oyster]

True, I'm lucky or taxes are pretty low here (for now), 9% of what I earn with freelance are taxes

Rest I can take home, but I do write licenses and hardware as business expenses

[plucky hatch]

Wow less than 10% 👀 , mine is 40%

[rigid hearth]

I've been freelancing as a modeler for 15+ years, charging $75 dollars per hour 🤪. When I first started it was 50 dollars/hour.

[mystic cloud]

What kind of topics I should master if I want to work with regular C++ projects that is outside of the Unreal or game dev context?

I assume I have an understanding of how C++ works in general but I'm pretty much weak on STL

dang I think I can handle the rest but math stuff gets me everytime since I slept in high school instead of paying attention to class

[steady pewter]

You dont need much math (depends on the company). Just general knowledge and practicing is good enough.

[brisk steppe]

dawg holy shi that is fricking amazing

[woeful iron]

If it can comfort you, I on the other hand, have never gotten a real math question on interviews. Some algo stuff and such yeah, but nothing that you really need to know any formulas or things for. Critical and logical thinking gets you very far already. But what is done on an interview can vary a lot by company tbh. E.g. from what I know USA based jobs are way more into algorithm stuff that you never use on the job than anywhere I ever applied.

[ocean musk]

do i have to know rigging well to be a 3D modeler? or is asset creation enough to get offers?

[green oyster]

It doesn't hurt to know the basics, it might come in handy

But you do need to know the full workflow, modeling (hard surface and more), uv unwrapping, baking, realistic texturing and delivering those assets (in UE for example)

[ocean musk]

i made a couple cars in blender that can be fully rigged door trunk steering wheel also modifiable if i were to create them, but i dont know how to apply to anything in english properly to display a proper image

also realistic lighting, blinkers etc, also clothing and other stuff but yea

[lapis pond]

Hey guys, i'm wondering if there's a good roadmap out there for self teaching the skills nesscary to be hired for either a junior regular c++ job or a unreal c++ job

Currently I'm just doing learncpp.com up to chapter 20 (currently on 17)

[green oyster]

I think @plucky hatch would know more about car modeling

[proud spear]

You're probably on the right track. That really is a good website. I, myself, need to review more and do that site. After you're done with that, I'd learn how to implement some algorithms or build something small to put into use what you learned

[lapis pond]

Thanks, this is helpful

[lapis pond]

I'm also a bit unclear on extra things to learn. Currently I have (1. learn github and how to operate two accounts interacting with each other)

... and that's it.

I feel like there's other stuff (learn clang, learn perforce, learn x, learn y) and I want a list of the top three or four nice-to-haves that are relatively small in scope compare to c++

[shut token]

General software development doesn't really use Perforce. git is king there

[crisp atlas]

IMO, once you have some c++ knowledge under your belt, the next thing is doing some practical application of it in Unreal proper. You'll quickly discover what secondary skills you have gaps in, and you can learn while you build some small example projects. Coding a plugin for the engine would be a great exercise, and you could put that on github as well, which is a nice place to share some of your work with prospective employers.

[lapis pond]

Well I have strong words for the person I met who used perforce instead

One last question: that kind of realistic timeframe should I be looking at from where I am right now (chapter 17 learncpp, no projects built yet) and generally being okay enough for people to start considering me for junior jobs?

my uneducated guess is 3 months, maybe 4

[crisp atlas]

I think you probably have a large degree of control over that, depending on how much time you want to devote to it and how intensely you want to practice.

[lapis pond]

Currently my aim is 4 hours a day

or what I'm doing right now, I should say

[crisp atlas]

I mean, I think you can accomplish an awful lot in 4 months, 4 hours a day.

[lapis pond]

So would the estimate be reduced to say... 3 months if I'm doing 4 hours a day? Sry i know this is all heavily subjective

[crisp atlas]

on the hiring side, i am not sure - you could probably reach out to a couple recruiters on linked in and ask their perspective re: how much 'in the seat' time Jr devs need before they can get placed into a role successfully.

[lapis pond]

How do you up your "in the seat" time? just building projects?

or is it how much you've coded cumulatively including just learncpp.com

[crisp atlas]

Well, I just mean a recruiter might be able to speak to that a bit - like, do juniors with 6 months or education get hired in reasonably well these days, or do companies like to see a year of experience? I don't know the answer to that in the current job market but a recruiter likely will.

[lapis pond]

Ah, cool. The stuff you've given me so far has been super useful anyway. Thanks

[ocean musk]

aye mate

would you be interested in working learning together?

[lapis pond]

I mean, I'm interested in anything! but right now I have a roadmap I'm sticking to. Could you elaborate on what you mean?

[ocean musk]

do you have a mic?

[lapis pond]

yeah but I can't speak right now

dm instead?

[ocean musk]

oh alright i can do that yea sure

its out

[granite solar]

I got my first junior unreal job back in June so I can at least share what skills I had and things I did that I believe helped land me the job. Referencing learncpp, I'd say I had a good understanding of everything up to templates, but I was definitely (and still am tbh) missing pieces from the earlier sections. I don't know squat about STL, I have for the most part, never used it. I had been using Unreal in my spare time for about 2 years at that point (maybe 12ish hours a week?) but had a solid understanding of Unreal in general. I had years of experience with Git in a solo setting and some experience in a team settings as a 'git master'. And projects (solo and team) done outside of courses (college, udemy, etc.) which I think is the biggest one. Aside from actually applying what you learn, they help you develop project management skills. I think a studio is more comfortable hiring a junior knowing that they know how to manage their own time and work. My approach to projects was "I want to learn x thing. I'll scope a small game/proto-type that enables me to learn x thing." Each one was done with a set goal of leaning some specific thing. Which I think helps push the point of being willing and wanting to learn. Some times it didn't involve creating something new from scratch, but extending a previous project (e.g. adding a global leaderboard to a game). I also find value in being able to reflect on your work (What you did good, bad, how it could be improved, etc.) and having experience reading others code and adding to an already existing code base, something I wish I had more experience of prior.

I'm not saying these skills are required, or that you won't get a job without them. Just sharing what seemed to have worked for me. And obviously there's plenty of other skills/things that I haven't mentioned that will help you 🙂 I guess summary would be: ideally understand learncpp, have projects done outside of courses, experience with vcs (team setting too), experience working with others, and proof of a want to learn and grow (projects, languages, frameworks, etc.). The technical skills from my resume lists the following too if you find this helpful: C++, C#, Java, Python, HTML, Unreal Engine 4, Git, Unity, AWS, Perforce, SQL & NoSQL Databases.

[pulsar trout]

Jumping in late on this - outside of academic and technical skills, it's very important to build a portfolio and to throw yourself into real-world game development scenarios. There is much, much of the knowledge and soft skills essential to the job that you won't be able to acquire on self-teaching coding environments, from task management to team interactions.

As a way to round up your skillset, I strongly suggest hopping into game jams and perhaps short term game development projects with other developers! Not only are they great to develop a sense of time per task, they also expose you to a lot of scenarios that are closer to your day to day reality - build issues, debugging code that isn't your own, writing documentation for future programmers and colleagues... plus, having tangible products to show what you're capable of will definitely bump your resume up a notch.

As a proof of concept, much like Vasumongr up above, projects outside of my academic path have often been mentioned by my employer as what set my resume apart from other juniors when I first started. And now that I've got a good amount of professional projects under my belt, I can confirm that those are the closest experiences I've ever had to what I do daily.

[sand flint]

It's my first message here, hello everybody 🙂

I wanted to ask if anybody knows where to find a good and (relatively) cheap UE5 mentors? I've noticed that there's no good central space (or I didn't find one) for students like me to find teachers/mentors for 1-1 sessions.

I've recently started a VR project and I really want to finish it, to experience what first release feels like. It's nothing big so shouldn't take long, but I have lots of questions on game logic and BP scripting. Just because Unreal is such an enormous thing it's hard to choose the single best solution for a problem. It only comes with experience, which I don't have yet. I understand the basics of how Unreal works, can do some BP scripting, learn fast and dedicated to finishing the project. It's just too damn much, I'll waste a lot of time doing the wrong thing.

Is there a more proper chat here where I can find such a person? Or is there some good site I missed while google-searching?

Please help me find someone smart and experienced so I can same myself lots of time and energy doing this myself 😦 It's exciting, but hard 😦

Edit: "schools" or "courses" won't work - they mostly cover only basics which I can find for free on Youtube or dev.epic forums (or here). I need someone who I can come to with a real problem to help me figure out (or choose) potential solutions

[spice dagger]

@sand flint If you are looking to hire someone, please refer to our Job Board.

#hire-a-freelancer

#hire-a-studio

You can find information on how to post your own listing in the #instructions channel.

[sand flint]

thank you. Was actually about to do it, but thought maybe I'd ask here first if there's a website for this purpose or different channel. Thanks ❤️

[solid bluff]

Hi, not sure if it's a good place to ask, sorry. Can I get internship for example from Poland and do it remote or any way internships go in the USA. Asking because can see a location on the web site

[brave forge]

It would highly depend on the internship. If it doesn't say either way, can't hurt to apply, but I would hazard a guess that chances are better if it's local

[solid bluff]

Thank you

[woeful iron]

I have personally never heard of a remote internship tbh. And if this would be for a school internship, you would have to check with the school as well. Because a lot of what they want you to get out of it is skills being in the workplace together with other people.

[plucky hatch]

what's the difference between showing your best in your portfolio and incomplete works? My best vs incomplete because I don't know parts of it

[woeful iron]

what do you mean with incomplete works

why would you post unfinished things?

except if you're still working on them and it's something big

[plucky hatch]

maybe it's something complex and there are parts of it that are going to take too long to finish

[woeful iron]

like is there a deadline?

you could post your current WIP I guess, but like that's just one

[plucky hatch]

for ex: I finished the head of a character but it took so much work that I'm unable to finish the rest of the body. Completed head vs incomplete whole character

[green oyster]

Can you make that head so it looks like that what it was intended? Like a sculpting exercise

[woeful iron]

well that you could post as just the head as "completed" though

no one needs to know full body was intended

[woeful iron]

this is not really a #career-chat question tbh

[wary idol]

@tiny peak This is not the channel for that, more appropriate for our job boards

[plucky hatch]

You should only post your best completed work in your portoflio, you can put WIP in a blog or similar.

[woeful iron]

why you reposting this in career chat

[lucid cipher]

Cuz i need everyone to see it

[steady pewter]

Can't, jobs sit only there.

[woeful iron]

that's not how this works

[lucid cipher]

But they can follow link

[steady pewter]

yeah, no 🧠

If in doubt, call the mods 🙂

[lucid cipher]

Anyway

At least i'm trying

[woeful iron]

trying to break the rules yeah

[lucid cipher]

Didn't knew this was against the rules

!

[steady pewter]

Nah, leave it to the new mods, earn their AAA+ salaries (kek)

[plucky hatch]

My project is much more aligned with Architecture than to env art. I'm not sure where my project is going. I'm not sure game companies want architecture.

[round radish]

Architecture companies do.

They already have commercial solutions, though.

[plucky hatch]

in terms of scale I'm using a scale compatible with FPS games. In third person the char is clearly much shorter because I made the default ceiling height 4 m. In real life 4 m is too high

It's a mixture of architecture and FPS

[feral wharf]

Does anyone know a vacancy for a tech artist/dev(unreal)? In Europe

[tidal herald]

I'm able to dedicate 16 hours a day to self-learning for UE5 (C++ & Blueprints), but am curious if I will be able to meet job requirements for an entry level position within 1-3 months, 3-6 months, or 6 months - 1 year. I understand it depends on the individual. Transitioning from Java only after previous remote job I had recently ran out of funds to continue development, so moving onto a different area.

[proud spear]

How many yeras of programming under your belt?

[tidal herald]

I would say 2 years because that's how long I worked for them before funds ran out. Most of my learning was self taught and based on what was needed to be done, though.

[proud spear]

If you put out an awesome portfolio and output what you learned or know, then I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be hired as an entry level position... I guess that would be the determining factor.

[tidal herald]

Ok, thank you.

[plucky hatch]

@copper socket maybe ask here lol or take a look in Job board channels (scroll far down in channel list)

[pearl bolt]

i think ima be a game designer

but i'll learn verse in case i need to be a programmar instead

maybe even c++

and c--

[keen mango]

it needs a degree right? to be a game dev? like to work in ubisoft or some like that

[modern relic]

Not really. The most relevant degree might be compsci but if you have a good portfolio and a solid background in whichever part of gamedev you are applying in then you have a decent chance. Maybe not at ubisoft but triple a studios hire freelancers so you never know

[plucky hatch]

No not really, maybe in the US but in Europe not so much, if at all.

[pure kettle]

If you want to relocate to other country, a degree might ease you getting visas and stuff

If you can earn it, earn it.

[oblique ice]

agree, degree will help with the immigration, and better chance on interview position if want to teaching job

[tawny cloak]

https://aizen_myoo.artstation.com/
Any feedback on my portfolio? It'd be greatly appreciated!

[pearl bolt]

in college im going to major in game design

balchelores

if i do be a designer, my first full time thing will have to be senior because of my income requirements

so ill lear n verse as a backup

[chilly sundial]

You plan on going straight from college to senior Dev?

[pearl bolt]

i mean id be doing like part time stuff before

[chilly sundial]

For how long though?
Most senior positions I see want like 8 years of well established experience

[pearl bolt]

hmm

well what design positstions are 6 figures besides senior

[chilly sundial]

Can't say I've ever seen one tbh. Unless it's like a really good California gig

But I'm a Brit so I wouldn't know

[pearl bolt]

i could work remote from a company based in california

[chilly sundial]

If you expect to make 6 figures as a junior then you are gonna have a harsh awakening

[pearl bolt]

i'll learn verse as a back up

how long will it take for verse being used in studios?

[tawny cloak]

Why are your income requirements 6-figures?

[pearl bolt]

i want to be upper middle class when im older

[chilly sundial]

So it's not a requirement then

That's a want not a need

[pure kettle]

Where are you from, if you don't mind answering?

[tawny cloak]

But you can't simply decide that. If you want a senior job that pays 6 figures it's not gonna happen in a few years. You will need to start your career as a junior, like everyone else. Get real work experience, learn how to work with others, lead small teams, and gradually gain responsabilities in order to earn more and more as you go. But if your main goal is to make money it will most likely not happen that way.

[pearl bolt]

usa

[pearl bolt]

i will be a junior in part time stuff before i go for a senior position

[chilly sundial]

Here I was expecting something like living in California with 15 kids, which would make sense

[chilly sundial]

You won't be getting a senior role off part time stuff either

[pure kettle]

What state? cali?

[pearl bolt]

ga

[chilly sundial]

Senior work is like a solid decade of full time industry work

[pearl bolt]

well if i dont become a game designer ill be a programmar

[chilly sundial]

Georgia? Im not too hot on my states

[pearl bolt]

i will be learning verse, because i know being game designer is competive job

and may not always happen

[tawny cloak]

Yes but junior part-time stuff doesn't justify being promoted to senior after a few years. A friend of my brother's is a great technical artist who was the best at his school, landed a job at Rockstar as soon as he left, and he still got a junior role, only promoted to mid after 2 years. It's not that simple.

[pure kettle]

Is Georgia having that high living cost?

[chilly sundial]

Again, probably not with a basic self learned knowledge of verse, and again not without that decade of experience

Programmers tend to use c++

Not a higher level scripting language

[pure kettle]

Also weird decision to aim for Verse, since it's still unclear when it'll made its way to UE5 proper

Also Verse is (still) limited to UE5

At least you can get elsewhere with Lua, C#, or Python

[chilly sundial]

You expect too much of employers for too little skill and experience

If it was so easy to make 6 figures by learning a scripting language part time we would have all made our millions

An unreleased scripting language*

[pure kettle]

Dream high, but make sure your expectation is plausible

[tawny cloak]

I live in Switzerland and 6-figures is not that common, except for highly skilled programmers with years of professional experience. So Georgia... I dunno man

If you can't manage to live on a smaller salary, you got more important problems to deal with imo

[pure kettle]

I'd consider 5 figures lucky in my region lol

[tawny cloak]

Where is that if you don't mind?

[pure kettle]

Indonesia

Average general jobs would be $2400 annual, enough for decent survival but not lot to spare

[tawny cloak]

I see. I guess cost of living is proportional to that at least? Is insurance private-owned there?

[pure kettle]

There are subsidized insurances provided by government, specifically worker insurances are calculated by employer under set ratio from the monthly paycheck.

If you're wondering, yes, those can be used for healthcare.

[pearl bolt]

can i be a programmar for games or software if i major in game design

since its related to comp sci

[chilly sundial]

You don't necessarily need a degree, it can make things easier region dependent, but it's always more important to back up your stuff. A good code portfolio matters

[plucky hatch]

hi guys, I'm complete beginner to Unreal seeking advice
I'm planning to include Unreal to my learning curriculum starting from next month, my goal is Unreal environment artist.
I'm currently 1-year (junior level) experience in outsource studio for game production, good understanding of PBR pipeline.

[woeful iron]

is this a question or just saying hi?

[plucky hatch]

I mean it, it's a serious question

[woeful iron]

I think you set high expectations without knowing about the games industry or workin in general

[woeful iron]

but there is no question mark or anything, just a statement? I'm confused what you want 😄

[plucky hatch]

@woeful iron Oh right, I forgot, to be specific, 1/ which skillset I need to learn so I will be fluent in building a small-scale Unreal scene (I mean a solid starting point , not to learn a little bits of everything and end up with errors even in small project), 2/ recommended ideas for Unreal junior-level portfolio work (personally I prefer snowy/forest ones, but willing to follow recommended ones first)

[woeful iron]

so what are you aiming for, I guess 3D artist, just generalist or environment or more props or level design or characters?

[plucky hatch]

my current job is 3D prop/weapon artist, also junior level in Substance designer and ZBrush, so I'm aiming for Unreal for environment works like below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14ZsqaomzM&t=46s

[woeful iron]

afraid I'm not an artist so can't personally give detailed advice, but seems you're already on a good tarck

[plucky hatch]

Thanks @woeful iron and after a few research about the lecturer, he is a senior environment artist, so I believe I'm good to start from here and learn new stuff on the way.

[tawny cloak]

Can you afford paid courses or do you need free resources?

[plucky hatch]

I can do both, I'm looking for free resources on YouTube (currently watching Unreal Sensei), and an affordable 2 or 3 paid courses for my current junior/intermediate level. @tawny cloak

I'm using Unreal 5.1

[plucky hatch]

I'm aiming for fluent use of Unreal for small-scale environment work (something like a diorama), and some specific skills like

• Blend material for painting landscape
• Megascans + Mixer to Unreal
• Create material shaders using Blueprints
  Though Unreal is optional/less priority skill for my current job, I'd like to have a few good Unreal-related artworks to evolve my workflow.

[tawny cloak]

https://www.artstation.com/marketplace/p/1LDxw/complete-guide-to-unreal-engine-5
That's pretty much the best paid course for UE5

Unreal Sensei is already pretty good for a free course

[tawny cloak]

For landscape material I would recommend this channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-kTl8QvMG8

[green oyster]

aren't those more towards level artist skill set?

[plucky hatch]

Good luck, if you want to be an actual Senior with the salary to match you can be looking at a decade of graft full time just so you are pre-warned. I think I worked 10 years to Senior, that's about the average I have observed in US and Europe.

[plucky hatch]

Thank you @tawny cloak

[plucky hatch]

maybe, but I'm more familiar with the term Environment Artist @green oyster

[latent charm]

Hello all. Does anyone know of any good resources on how to prepare for a technical interview? It's about a job as a UE Gameplay Programmer (mid level). I am grateful for any tips.

[modern relic]

Know the technologies. A good knowledge of c++ is a food start. Knowing how unreal works is also a good start. Knowing the basic control flow of the program (what events are called when), etc

[woeful iron]

mmm food start

[steady pewter]

How so for a mid level and you don't know what you need?

Sounds like a question for Jr position.

[latent charm]

You don't know my vita, right? So far my portfolio was proof enough of my skills. I've just wanted to know if anyone is kind enough to share a similar experience.

[latent charm]

I like food! Pretty basic info, but thanks anyway.

[steady pewter]

"any good resources on how to prepare" does not sound like "share similar experience"

My point is to bring some clarity to what you are asking actually.

I think this is not good place to ask these questions, this is #career-chat not #ue5-general say.

[latent charm]

Yeah well, you could've asked that in the first place. So do you feel like sharing your experience, or do you want to continue discussing my lack of expression?

[steady pewter]

I already asked specific question to bring clarity. At this point, I think whatever I write will fly through, so - hope you get your answer.

[lofty blade]

aka, had nothing good to say on the OPs question in the first place and just wanted to feel mighty over someone

[pastel estuary]

If you are around mid-level I wouldnt worry too much about it.
just be honest, and talk about what you enjoy :)

[woeful iron]

read #instructions @tawdry phoenix

[urban night]

I've been unable to trigger /job with Manny for 5 days. How are people still posting jobs?!

[mint grove]

I’m looking for some feedback on my portfolio and resume site.

Can I post my portfolio site for feedback here?

[round radish]

I guess?

[mint grove]

https://gamedesign714041443.wordpress.com/

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[round radish]

My only feedback for now would be you should get yourself a proper url. random name.wordpress.com doesn't look very professional. Get yourself your own website.

[mint grove]

I’m a student. I can’t afford one unfortunately.

[pure kettle]

Welcome to the world of pay-to-win.

[mint grove]

I don’t get it… I work hard to win.

[oblique ice]

you should able to find some, keep looking

[mint grove]

Find some?

[steady pewter]

Name.

[plucky hatch]

You can get a URl for very cheap, <€20

[round radish]

<5

[woeful iron]

I mean if you do word press at least don't put gamedesign714041443 in front

make it your name or something

that's free right

also your home page is just blank?

what's the point of the home page then

I would make the home a project page where you have thumbnails or something for all your projects that you can click through

also just my opinion but you resume is hard to read layout wise

just a bunch of text

make it nice layout, if you can't do it on the webpage, just make a pdf or something and embed it

[round radish]

Also sort this formatting out

[woeful iron]

also on the full sail page you put documentation,while on the others it's description

[woeful iron]

where is this even lol

oh wait found it

I would also put on each project what kind of things you used, and learned

I personally also find it strange that your story parts are center aligned and everything below is left aligned

[floral island]

Is there any website to submit a game project? Like a portfolio or something?

[woeful iron]

what do you mean?

upload a game?

like itch.io ?

[round radish]

Steam?

[floral island]

no, not the game itself

I have a concept video for a game project

[round radish]

Youtube...

[floral island]

and I would like to make a presentation, like Power Point

[round radish]

To whom?

[floral island]

to find someone intereste in develop it

interested*

like this site

metapublishing.io/

[round radish]

I mean, game ideas are everywhere. Is yours amazing, well fleshed out with well defined concepts, target audiences and monetisation?

[floral island]

yes

[round radish]

Then you might have a chance.

Upload the video to youtube, make it private, send it to some publishers or something.

[floral island]

Ok, the video is uploaded, what is the best to make the presentation?

I mean, there's some presentation site os software good for games project?