Instead of a flat plane
#virtual-reality
heavy tiger
In my case, I need a quick solution for a demo. I will use widgets.
Are 3D widgets different than regular widgers?
real needle
@heavy tiger Not when it comes to using UMG, but they're being rendered in world space so there are some differences
heavy tiger
Are they objects in world space like in Unity UGUI?
real needle
Instead of all the "add to viewport" nodes and focus, I just spawn and destroy an actor w the widgetcomponent
The widgetcomponent is, yes
heavy tiger
Got it.
real needle
"Added in a new CVar vr.SteamVR.UsePostPresentHandoff, which defaults to 0. When set to 0, we do NOT use the SteamVR Post Present Handoff, which costs some performance GPU time. When 1, we use the call, and get some extra GPU performance. However, this call is NOT safe for scenes that have frame-behind GPU work, like Scene Capture components and Widget Components.
For users that were using 4.14.1, and seeing a GPU timing improvement, that behavior is now off by default. You can re-enable it by setting vr.SteamVR.UsePostPresentHandoff on your project to get it back. Be aware that SceneCaptureComponents or WidgetComponents may cause async reprojection in SteamVR to fail in that case."
That's what broke projects w widgets and capture components if interleaved reprojection was on
About to try converting to 4.15 and see if it's good now
lusty ledge
jeez the Force Feedback Effect thing is even more underwhelming than I thought
not working with my pawn-derived VR player presumably because it isn't a Character
which seems to suggest it wasn't designed at all to support VR... guess there's always next patch
unless there's something painfully obvious i'm missing about this thing >_>
ah, wait. it does work based on the root of the pawn i have possessed
but unfortunately that's not very useful for tracked controller haptics =/ qq
near steppe
Any sugestion on how to do a turn base system in BP or where I can find out how to do this
heavy tiger
@near steppe Look up State Machines
The default Unreal VR hand controller does left hands in a bizarre way. It takes the right hand model and scales along the Z axis
This causes anything childed to the hand to alos be flipped along the Z axis. This sucks, because objects will no longer align with the fingers like they do on the right hand.
Is there a standard way to fix this?
heavy tiger
Right now all I can think of is to remove all children from the hand mesh.
digital marlin
I suppose just create a left handed bp?
heavy tiger
It's a mesh issue, not a BP issue.
That's the other option, to duplicate the hand asset, but that seems wasteful.
heavy tiger
I suppose it's unreal's fault because the default hand asset is palm down, rather than palm left so you can scale it horizontally
Yes
digital marlin
yeah, I'm finding as more I dev with that template, I'm finding particular limits.
But that's really based on my game.
heavy tiger
I think the best I can do is alter the structure so the hand mesh has no children.
digital marlin
yeah that could work
near steppe
@heavy tiger ok thnak you . can i use a state machine if i do not have any animations in VR
heavy tiger
A state machine is good for any kind of game, not just VR
near steppe
we are making a 3d would with a 3d player but 2d enemies and patrons. all the resurch that i found is shoing how to us a SM for animation. where chould i find how to use it as a trun base system
heavy tiger
It's not a concept unique to Unreal engine. Here's a link: http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/state.html
You'll have to do a lot of reading, but it's one of the key game dev tools.
heavy tiger
You can add a socket to the mesh, but that's a bad idea.
Because the left hand is a scaled version of the right hand meaning all the sockets will be upside down
You're better off adding some scene components and using those instead.
ebon musk
so hey. anybody working on a cool VR project?
wicked oak
i keep developing DWVR + prototypes
graceful junco
i keep developing VROverstuffed
(You won't find much though when you google for it. I haven't posted much on social media)
ebon musk
what's dwfr?
ohhh
nvm vblanco i remember now.
what is vroverstuffed ? @graceful junco
graceful junco
A physics based puzzle game. You have a bunch of objects in each level and try to place them on platforms or otherwise stack them without them touching the floor. While you puzzle away, a firendly alien guy keeps you company and entertains you with stories and funny jokes. https://twitter.com/VROverstuffed
Been working on it for more than 8 months now. Still got plenty of things to add and finalize.
real needle
@graceful junco Your inventory system is nice
graceful junco
Thanks 😃
glossy agate
Yeah I got one that I should have ready for the demo release by the end of this long weekend. Will launch it next friday I think, so I can fix shit over the weekend haha
pallid echo
Some of you might like this cuz I know I did when I first put the pull request in when my VR game needed it.
https://twitter.com/CJRobertson932/status/832763448811360256
mighty carbon
Nah, Montage is still a thing
@pearl tangle I just read that Sammy's president got arrested after all
pearl tangle
Why would anybody use montage instead of sequencer though? They abandoned montage and all the features along with better ways of doing things are in sequencer now. Along with being able to put into blueprints which is amazing now
mighty carbon
Isn't Montage for some simple anims?
pearl tangle
But also cool. They cancelled the project I was working on too just after I had all the expensive new locks and everything put on the rooms and cameras and stuff to meet the hightened security
Sequencer has all the capabilities of montage and is easier to use, no reason for montage at all now
mighty carbon
I see
mighty carbon
Ohh, interesting
Should have used Gear VR instead
And there was an article questioning whether Facebook will limit Oculus to be a research company and not continue with mass market VR
Kinda odd, but might be possible
If they do that, I wonder if instead of Oculus Store there will be some kind of Facebook VR store.
(I would really like having alternative to Steam)
heavy tiger
Does anyone have any advice for general techniques and practices to improve VR Performance?
paper hawk
anyone using 4.15? I just made a new VR project, and the VR Preview is grayed out
huh. restarting fixed it...
gilded oyster
@pearl tangle you mean matinee not montage. montage is persona, matinee is the precursor to sequencer. montages may/not be the best choice for what they do but that's a debate for #animation and highly case-specific.
wintry escarp
anyone following that udemy c++ course?
mighty carbon
Not me
wintry escarp
I think they all do except me
sharp swan
im still on 4.12.5 as we seem to be sticking to it for production. But I want all the new good stuff to play with !
echo flax
You guys, I am suddenly getting hella translucency flickering in my vr game. Like some frames only the right eye gets the translucent stuff. Wasn't happening the other day. Gimme tips
sharp swan
victor b had that the other day and it was to do with draw calls in his case
echo flax
like too many?
sharp swan
yeah
echo flax
:///// that would see mweird
sharp swan
it was material based in his case I think
heh just added a freelook cam setup for a VRcam for when you aren't using VR and want to look around. Because recycling.
sturdy coral
@echo flax are you using the nvidia branch?
echo flax
no
zinc violet
4.15?
wonder if that's related to the texture streaming improvements they made
they could have broken something for VR
real needle
If anyone's here right now, I would like to have a discussion about the VR controls.
I've found that there really isn't a standard and would like some other opinions and thoughts on the matter.
graceful junco
Well, start discussing 😃
real needle
Oh okay, so here's what I'm trying to say.
Do you remember when the playstation one first came out? Or pong?
Pong is a better example but the PS1 I believe is more common an example.
Anyways, there were many Pong consoles that came out (I believe the exact number over models is around 120)
and every pong console had a different controller design, a different way to play the game and an interesting twist on the classic.
However, this created a limited market in itself, because no two consoles were ever really the same, these ease of playing these games were not universal and in fact, required people to in a way, relearn the game and its controls to play fluidly.
Now, this is a better example because it's more of a hardware and design issue and people say "Eh, those were the old times, all consoles are essentially the same now"
But, VR, it really isn't.
In fact, the only VR I optimize games for is the HTC Vive. I don't bother with the Oculus because to me, it'll be obsolete in a matter of time.
The rest is just ridiculous in my opinion and so really the HTC Vive is how I build these games.
But as a topic for Game development and not overall bitching, we're kind of faced with a development crisis.
We have a limited VR market and a VERY VERY limited selection of VR games for each platform.
And in most game designs for VR, you can't just make it compatible for all VR platforms.
Right now, I'm working on a PC/VR compatible game. This way it can be compatible for those who don't have VR and those who do and those who want to use Oculus or HTC Vive.
But then I'm faced with a developmental issue that has to do moreso with the mechanics in the game itself.
This brings me to my next example here, the Playstation 1
More specifically, Conkers Bad Fur Day and Legacy of Kain
So if you haven't played either of those games, don't worry, I'll example the comparison, (But you should feel bad for not playing them)
When I was younger, I played a lot of PS1 games as they came out and one thing was true that I found.
No game had the same concept and standard for controls.
Some games you could only move the camera using the right anaolog, others the left
Some you had to use both analog sticks to move the camera and moved your character with the D-pad
Some used triangle as a means for an action button, others used X
Some (like Odd world abes odyssey) were actually so difficult to play because you mentally wanted to default to another button to jump than to press the one that actually jumps in the game.
The problem that this created (The lack of standard in controls) pretty much replicated the same hardware limitations faced with Pong consoles
It takes a massive amount of learning curve to play these games, they mess up, it's unintuitive, it's essentially frustrating at points and other times it's just really REALLY backwards.
Now how does this all tie to VR?
Buy any random number of VR games for the HTC Vive and you'll find that none of them have the same controls.
Some use teleportation, some use the facebuttons for movement, some have no movement and are just small rooms you can move around
Some use the grips to pick up, some use the trigger, some don't allow you to press a button to pick things up at all.
In fact, every HTC Vive game is so unstandardized that if you buy a game with a shooting mechanic with the HTC Vive, you better know how they use the Reload, Shooting and gripping functions before you start the game up or you'll have a bad time.
So what I'm essentially asking here is this: What is a good standard for VR games using the HTC Vive? And what are creative ways to bridge the limtied market with the common market?
(Sorry for the large amount of text)
graceful junco
Now that's what I call a wall of text 😄
Well, here are my thoughts. You can't fix other people's messed up input designs for their games. If you want to make a good game, you make sure the controls are as intuitive as possible for whatever your game needs. There will always be people who prefer pressing one button over another to perform a certain action like grabbing an object. The best thing you can do is, choose a key that pleases a major part of your audience and allow the rebinding of buttons in your game menu. Also, it's not a bad idea to have a good tutorial at the beginning of your game explaining your input scheme. This is not really anything VR specific, this is basic game design. VR just is in a position right now, where you get a lot of games, which are poorly made, where the developers have put little thought into their input design. Like I said, you can't ever "fix" that, just make sure your game is as intuitive as possible.
And if you want to support multiple platforms/controller designs, just play your game with both and spend time improving usability for both.
real needle
The huge obstacle I find that is most difficult is the creation of a UI that doesn't break the realism of the VR experience.
And yeah I see exactly what you're saying but the biggest concern I mostly have is the limited market.
real needle
make a killer app and you'll solve the limited market problem 😉
silk lodge
@real needle well, what we're gonna have soon is puck trackers and bajillions of little clip on vive bits
and then we can have a real user input crisis!
wicked oak
In fact, the only VR I optimize games for is the HTC Vive. I don't bother with the Oculus because to me, it'll be obsolete in a matter of time.
And yeah I see exactly what you're saying but the biggest concern I mostly have is the limited market.
very serious contradiction there mate
i put my game on Oculus store and duplicated the sales
noble crater
also - supporting Vive+Desktop sounds like massively more work than Vive+Oculus
echo flax
@zinc violet nah this is on 4.14
i guess i could try 4.15 and see if there's any improvevment
pearl tangle
why would it be massively more work?
mighty carbon
lol, Oculus Rift was mentioned in Agents of Shield Season 4 😃
@pearl tangle do you happen to know when this phone is going to be released, approximately https://www.asus.com/us/Phone/ZenFone-AR-ZS571KL/ ?
pearl tangle
Not sure. I'm getting a couple off Google next week when we are doing a Tango training thing there for a couple of days so they might know a bit more, will find out
mighty carbon
aye, cool
sounds bogus to me - how is it higher ppi screen provides blurrier pic than lower ppi screen ?
sullen burrow
Hey guys. Do you know of any way to find the oculus asset of the hands on Oculus demo for UE ?
sullen burrow
I found the SDK for Unity https://developer3.oculus.com/downloads/pc/1.10.1/Oculus_Avatar_SDK/
sullen burrow
Anyway I already started making them myself.
Check this amazing person https://medium.com/shopify-vr/marionettes-in-vr-6b596620c3ca#.bbvg2v296
noble crater
@pearl tangle because vr games are completely different to desktop games
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon probably because the pixel phone is more powerful than the s5 that they built it to work on so higher minimum specs to work with
sullen burrow
Unreal doesn't support the Oculus Avatar SDK yet. In my previous link you will find a remake asset of the hands and gestures.
shell frost
is there any way to have the Vive Preview window rendering out in Stereo much like the Oculus can?
pearl tangle
why would you want it to render out in stereo?
you can change the mirror mode on it, there are 3 options from memory but I don't think anybody requested to keep the individual eyes view
shell frost
Well not stereo. But a full image, rather than a thin rectangle down the screen
the mirror modes broke my preview in last time I tried..
had to revert my config and saved because of that
digital marlin
dang. Someone has made the exact game I wanted to make
pearl tangle
yeah you need to change mirror mode, there are a bunch of pull requests for it that you can find or just modify it yourself. Not sure if maybe any of them got merged in though but there was a bunch of ways to do a full screen mirror
pearl tangle
yay epic finally added an "Add to cart" button on the marketplace like right as I was about to purchase 30 different packs
tawdry dragon
Anyone here that has had any troubles with getting a "WidgetInteraction" component to work when you have one for each motion controller? If I delete one of the widget interactions, it works fine for the other controller
To clarify, im running this code in a generic controller blueprint
and it runs, but widget interaction doesnt happen
mighty carbon
I wonder if Daydream can run with S8 and new Gear VR, as it would suck if Gear VR would have to be run with Gear VR and for Daydream we'd have to buy another HMD
wicked oak
important detail. The teleport arc on the VR Template is incredibly inneficient
it takes up to 2 miliseconds to calculate
on Tick
i lowered it to 0.3
the thing destroys and creates all the spline mesh components each frame
all of them dstroyed and create per frame
ive edited it to create it only if it needs them, and just reuse the mesh components from frame to frame
mighty carbon
👍
wicked oak
on ps4, it was taking 4-5 miliseconds from my CPU time
mighty carbon
what's the point of having arc at all? It's not like it shows your trajectory of movement
wicked oak
for aiming
mighty carbon
it looks fine, but really serves no purpose
you see mark on the floor, right ? That should be more than enough
(unless you indeed move in a ballistic trajectory when teleporting, which I am sure you do not)
native cedar
Wow, didn't know it was that inefficient
wicked oak
yup, it delets all the mesh components and then creates it again
every frame
instead of just making them invisible
native cedar
crazy, I'm always reluctant to destroying things
mighty carbon
how so ?
native cedar
often it's best to just let them be
wicked oak
if you destroy you need to create again
native cedar
destroying can be a costly operation
mighty carbon
well, what do you do with inventory items, for example ?
currently when I pick it up, I destroy actor on the level
wicked oak
object pool
native cedar
we are talking of things you do a lot in one frame here. For instance if I have to make a bunch of meshes disappear I'd go with hidden in game, not destroy, 'cause destroying many meshes at once could cause a framerate drop
native cedar
destroying one actor or even spawning one actor per frame is not expensive
wicked oak
but they will have to get GCd later
native cedar
if that is all you are doing
thing is, in VR frame drops are felt no matter what, and creating a lot of garbage can cause an unexpected drop, I feel
wicked oak
it does
thats why i moved my entire projectile system to a pool
a GLOBAL pool, in fact
all enemy and player projectiles get pooled on the same ProjectileManager actor
mighty carbon
I don't recall seeing any pool managers in idTech 4 engine.. Why is UE4 so inefficient ? :/
wicked oak
kind of retarded, as if implementing a pool wasnt super easy
mighty carbon
maybe not easy for BP designers 😃
I have no idea how to make object pool and I bet it needs to be done in C++ to be efficient
wicked oak
not really
its easy as hell, you just need an array and put your AActor * pointers on it
instead of Destroy and Spawn, you have Activate and Deactivate functions
that set it to invisible and things like that
and thats about it
wicked oak
your normal references
every time you deal with an Actor in BP you are using a pointer
mighty carbon
so it's just an array of object reference that I fill up at the beginning and then I simply add/remove from that array instead of spawning/destroying actors ?
mighty carbon
I see how it can work for dynamically spawned actors, but I don't see how it would work for stuff I place on the level
wicked oak
one for "alive" objects and other for "dead objects"
when you "spawn" one, you grab it from the dead object and reset it
mighty carbon
eeeh, you lost me 😦
dusk vigil
it's most used typically for bullets and enemies in shmup type games. Instead of spawning and destroying the bullets, you have say 100 bullets created on loading the level, and then you use them as needed. So then the player shoots 99 bullets which behave normally ( they are shown and disappear after set time or on hitting something ), and then starts from bullet 0 again, thus skipping the whole inefficient create/destroy cycle. Good for any objects which are in continuous use in similar way like enemies and such
and no, there's not much use for it in the normal level creation
mighty carbon
do you know any good BP tutorials about objects pooling?
dusk vigil
I would say it's a great practice project to learn to do it yourself. It's pretty simple, and will force you to learn a little bit about using arrays and object references
mighty carbon
it might sound simple, but I don't get the mechanics of it
sounds like array of object references, but at the same time I don't get how to use/reuse them. removing/adding objects back isn't something vblanco approves
graceful junco
I love you people. 😃 So many good ideas flaoting around. My menu spawns a lot of actors, which adds like 4-5 ms frame time. I was thinking about dividing up the spawning into multiple frames, but reusing those actors sounds like a better idea. Thanks vblanco.
dusk vigil
Minimal example:
- Create 10 bullet objects, put them under the level + invisible
- The shooting player keeps an index of what bullet to shoot next
- Shoot : take bullet[index] and launch the sucker, make it visible and put it in the right place
- Increment to next index until reached [maxBullets], go back to 0
tired tree
Pooling is a pretty common part of most games btw
dusk vigil
When the bullets are done doing their thing, make sure they go back to being invisible and inactive
tired tree
more so when dealing with physics
So, question, does anyone else have the chaperone components boundaries not always get filled in? I want to make sure that SteamVR is behaving how I think it is before putting work into a fix.
tired tree
mmm, nvm, muchcharles already did a pull request for it
native cedar
put them bullets under the carpet!
mighty carbon
that's madness - so if you want 100 bullets pool, you'd have to put 100 bullet actors on the level ?
even spawning them actors at begin play via script will take a long while
I am sure this is the exact instance when spending $10 for that Pooling system worth it
wicked oak
you dont place them manually
your pool actor does
my projectile manager is less than 40 lines
2 simple functions
just this thing
this one has one array for each projectile class type
it gets first the array of that exact class, and then loops it to search for a deactivated projectile
if it finds a deactivated projectile, it reactivates it and returns it
if it doesnt, it spawns a new projectile and returns it
projectiles deactivate themselves
on hit
are you sure 12 dollars is worth for literally those few lines of code?
tired tree
also make sure you turn off tick when not in use
but blanco is doing it correctly having a global pool
wicked oak
could be better tho
but this is good enough
a better way its to actually tick the objects from the pool itself
i disable Tick on deactivated projectiles
then reactivate it
you could just have 1 array for everything
the "left side" of the array is activated projectiles, the right side deactivated projectiles
any projectile past X index is assumed to be deactivated
when ticking, just call Update() on the first X projectiles
all classes use same search array
cant get more compact than that, but searching is more complicated. Thats why i have multiple arrays
and i dont order the activate/deactivated projectiles
it solves my performance issues so ill leave it as this XD
tired tree
pooling system is unlikely to do anything different except maybe allow for dynamically scaling total counts btw motorsep
dusk vigil
@mighty carbon the whole point is that when you have a game, which has a high likelyhood of going through 1,000s of bullets and/or enemies or whatevers per game session, creating/destroying them during gameplay is not costeffective. You take the creation hit on starting the levels and destruction hit on stopping the level. It makes sense and is very much standard practice on any games which involve lots and lots of objects being used
wicked oak
or you do like i do, and spawn when you need more
but if you can reuse, reuse
my arrays get resized
you could tell them to be sized at 100 from the start too, but in this case, they only store pointers
the objects are Spawned() like usual
tired tree
Lots of managed pools have a base line level, and then if beyond that base level is requested it expands by a set amount to handle it.
mighty carbon
@tired tree what do you think of this https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/object-pool-plugin ?
tired tree
I mean its just an object pool, if you don't want to make it yourself then buy it. The fact that it doesn't support pawns and characters means it doesn't check sub components for ticking though
dusk vigil
- Do you have a game in which you are constantly creating / destroying stuff?
- Is performance really an issue ( premature optimization is the root of all evil )
Meaning, do you Really Need It at the moment?
tired tree
there are complaints about AI still ticking with it when pooling characters
- not true at all for some cases :p
dusk vigil
Well yeah, but I like to say it to people who worry about stuff before they have a prototype even running
( not that I know how far the project is in this case )
tired tree
mmm, his last forum post as of the 18th said he added character support in
so sure, go for it, if you don't want to implement one yourself and I know you work in blueprint so this will likely be faster
it appears to be higher quality than his anti cheat plugin
mighty carbon
I notice performance drop when I pick up an inventory item (initially, then there is no performance drop after that) on Gear VR (after item is added to the inventory, actor is destroyed).
I am not sure whether it's related to destroying actor, or creating UMG widget
(haven't profiled it yet)
dusk vigil
This is partly what I am talking about : you need to know what the problem is before you start throwing money at it
mighty carbon
and I am going to have projectiles, so I am sure I'll need pooling for that
tired tree
shouldn't be dropping perf for destroying a single object
wicked oak
in my case, its due to having up to 30 projectiles at the same time
dual wielding 2 rifles that shoot 10 per second, plus enemy bullets and shit
and each shotgun shoots 8 pellets at 0.5 seconds fire rate, dual wielded too
soo, a fuckton of projectiles
this was giving me GC stalls
quite serious ones
due to the spawn destroy
mighty carbon
can't wait for Gear VR with motion controller 😃
I hope it's a bit more advanced compare to Daydream
wicked oak
trying some of the psvr stuff
in PlayroomVR they have a game that is the exact same as Luckeys Tale XD
except it has the gamepad in VR and has some stuff like throwing a rope with the controller and making the little guy use that as a bridge
and the rope is moved with the controlelr
tired tree
hows the tracking
tired tree
headset specifically I guess
wraith sky
mighty carbon
@tired tree have you used this one by chance https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/savior ?
tired tree
I wouldn't be the best one to ask about marketplace assets, I haven't used any, I made everything I ever needed so far. Auto save systems sound good but may be too generic for use depending on your requirements. His is level based and non multiplayer from the looks of it.
Again, it might be exactly what you need though, go ask him with your requirements
mighty carbon
What do you mean by "level based" ?
(and I can ask authors of course, but their opinion will always be biased 😉 )
tired tree
just ask if it supports features you want, but the desc states that you add and actor to a level and it saves out all objects on save / load
mighty carbon
👍
should be fine for single player
also, there are no other save/load systems that work on Android
@wicked oak ^^
and this is pretty interesting too http://www.roadtovr.com/latest-figures-suggest-resident-evil-7-could-have-some-280000-psvr-players/
pearl tangle
hah ok seems there is a bug with the marketplace now
you can't make a transaction over $1000 on it using the cart yet...
wise thunder
😮
pearl tangle
hah yeah I think we own majority of the marketplace by now
urban shell
anyone using 4.15 for vr dev yet?
was curious to know if pre-compiled build could now be used to create fullscreen vr preview windows. am currently using source build to accomplish that, but seems to be a bit of a waste to just use source for that one thing.
deft badge
@urban shell: I was just thinking the same thing
Wonder if it's possible to build out the static libs and just replace the steam vr plugin
urban shell
good point
deft badge
We have a product, due to ship in a couple of days.
I have the VR fullscreen hack working with a source build.
urban shell
hot fixing is also tedious when using source. had one of my steam players crash today from something that was hot fixed in 4.14.2, but i was still on 4.14.0
lesson learned i suppose
deft badge
So, what I discovered was.... that the launcher download version of the Steam VR plugin contains 6 files.
2 dll's for SteamVR and SteamVRController, and 4 static libs that are the same for devel and shipping.
mighty carbon
@pearl tangle it's been publicly confirmed that new Gear VR will come with a controller (not officially confirmed and no saying what kind of controller it will be exactly)
pearl tangle
ah I thought I already said that on here like 3 months back
mighty carbon
I just hope it's a bit better than Daydream's
pearl tangle
the daydream 1 works fine for what its meant to do
mighty carbon
nice
really need shadows from the characters - helps a lot with planting their feet
@pearl tangle can it be used to control a hand with a gun pretty accurately? (since gun doesn't need to move "forward", or depth wise )
deft badge
@urban shell The source build only produces the 2 dll files, not the static libs
Not sure if I need them or not, nor how to build them
deft badge
k, just built the shipping version of the source... and I got some static libs
They are a lot bigger than the original versions (55 times bigger)
annnnnnd... it crashed
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon it's pretty much like a wii remote, you can point and shoot stuff, but you cant really lift it up to your eye and line it up like a vive or touch
hard light
I'm not a fan of the daydream remote in that it has very few inputs
you can point it at stuff and click a button, but it could do with a little more
pearl tangle
vs the current capabilities of the gear vr though what do you think?
hard light
the arm model itself is pretty good though
works better than I thought it would
the UE4 plugin is an absolute turd however, heh
it isn't even based on the normal motion controller classes, so it overcomplicates multi-platform stuff even more
pearl tangle
yeah still a lot of little annoying issues with unreal engine for the less mainstream stuff thats for sure
prime iris
Is the editor freezing when you open two projects simultaneously VR related? and if so is there any work around? launch flag to open project with vr disabled? it's making refering to my old prototypes/tutorial projects difficult because I can only have one open at a time :'<
pearl tangle
if you shut down steam vr it should probably be ok
tawdry dragon
Anyone here who knows why "Play Haptic Effect" only works with Oculus Touch, if both controllers are tracked/connected?
Works fine with Vive
(with one controller)
For future reference, it seems to be a bug in vanilla Unreal x < 4.15. If you need to fix it inside 4.14.3, this will help you fix it in the custom build:
https://forums.oculus.com/developer/discussion/46268/cant-get-haptic-effect-to-work-in-ue4-with-touch-controllers
proud shard
Anyone has a best-way to replicate VR motion controllers location/rotation and such?
proud shard
Either really but it's actually not important anymore, another issue that is more high priority popped up
silk lodge
@urban shell we shipped the latest update of beach ball valley with 4.15
native cedar
I was thinking, if fxaa are just a post process, isn't there a way to get them working with msaa?
they are pretty cheap and maybe could help compensate msaa
mighty carbon
@native cedar so turning on FXAA in forward rendering does nothing ?
native cedar
does stuff
just I can't seem to be able to use both msaa and fxaa
should be possible since they work completely differently
trying to figure out how to tell unreal to always use fxaa in the source code, it's probably just a couple of lines in a post process class
mighty carbon
I'd say allowing a lot of trash without any filter to Steam VR is one of the contributing reasons for low earnings
wicked oak
it is
spring pond
I dunno, bought way more on steam than i have on the oculus store
i think i've only bought a single oculus store game
mighty carbon
eh? There are a bunch of games I'd buy if I had Rift
wicked oak
i finally got DWVR to be fully playable on ps4
same features as in PC
some graphical errors that im going to fix, but the game is fully playabe
mighty carbon
👍 🖖
ebon scaffold
Anyone have a tutorial on adding mixed reality support to your UE4 game?
real needle
@ebon scaffold https://github.com/haowang1013/UE4-MixeReality
It's not a tutorial, but this is as close as it gets
ebon scaffold
@real needle Thank you!
pearl tangle
@mighty carbon I am assuming you saw the Samsung announcement about "monitorless"?
mighty carbon
yeah, but I was at work, so skimmed over it
pearl tangle
you can always throw on a steam tracker to a daydream or gear vr pretty easily now too for full positional tracking
mighty carbon
plus I didn't see anything about tracking
well, someone needs to make a plugin for UE4 😉
full junco
@mighty carbon you have a lot of fun always posting news here lol 😛
without you I wouldn't know about anything that happens in the VR world 😂
mighty carbon
lol, my pleasure 😆
@pearl tangle do you think they will release S8 and new Gear VR at the same time?
pearl tangle
yeah they wont have any kind of tracking in it by the looks of it. just fixed position stuff, similar to the Epsom AR headset by the looks of it
they did that with all the other 1s, id say they will probably want to give it away for free with pre orders and stuff again but who knows
mighty carbon
I see
kinda odd that even though Snapdragon 835 suppose to have something for positional tracking, new Gear VR won't have it 😦
mighty carbon
#graphics seems to be dead, so I'll ask here
what would be the cheapest way to swap colors in the material ?
I have a mesh with super simple material - just base color that needs to be either blue or red (based on BP code)
I could create dynamic material instance in BP and set vec parameter, but I wonder if there is anything simpler
pearl tangle
thats a pretty lightweight way to do it
and a processor doesn't have anything specific to do around that, they just demonstrated they can dedicate a thread to it, but so could any other processor really
full junco
#graphics is not dead, you only waited 6 minutes for an answer and you already say it's dead @mighty carbon
mighty carbon
see, I got response here much faster 😃
@pearl tangle well, why wouldn't they add inside-out tracking then ?
pearl tangle
because you then need to add lots of hardware and software to a device that 99.999% of the people buying the phone wont use. Would only be useful if they integrated it into the gear vr itself rather than the phone since they don't want to cannibalise their own sales or profit to account for such a small subset of users of their premium device
mighty carbon
well, that's what I meant - add hardware to Gear VR and software to the phone
pearl tangle
yeah that would be more appropriate and it's a possibility but I haven't heard anything about it
just bought myself an MSI VR ONE backpack, looks sweet!
would still be much better if the wireless stuff could handle multiple machines in 1 space but this will be a decent first step
mighty carbon
I wonder if Oculus will go wireless too
digital marlin
They'd have to follow with wireless.
pearl tangle
yeah wireless is definitely the next step with things. but since I am wanting to do shared space multiplayer with props etc it's impossible to do with a wire but also the current tpCast and intel solutions cant handle multiple headsets in the same space even which kills it as a solution for me
sharp swan
who knows. things have moved pretty fast in terms of optimisation but I guess it's all good.
frigid herald
guys, I am using 4.12, and when I try HTC vive my FPS down form 100 to 44 ....but the strange is that with a blanck project I am getting this same 44 fps
😮
pearl tangle
have you setup the new project as a mobile and scalable 2D project?
frigid herald
mmmn o, my project is for PC on 3D
native cedar
those guys implemented runtime gbuffer toggle... and the article has hypertext pointing at every commit
unbelievable
pearl tangle
you should set it up as a mobile scalable 2D project. is it your first time running a project on the vive?
frigid herald
mmm where is this options?
wicked oak
now that i got my game fully working on Ps4pro devkit, gonna try getting it working on the "base" ps4
i wonder how does forward rendering run on ps4
native cedar
so I run UE4 with r.screenpercentage at 100, hit vr preview and somehow when profiling gpu there is a voice saying "downsample 540x600"
doesn't ue4 run 2 windows 1080x1200 with sp at 100?
oh nevermind, there are many "downsample" logs
raven halo
The down sampling is mainly for bloom. The default sp value is 130 afaik
wicked oak
its becouse its "Downsample TO"
so that downsample 540x600 means that is downsampling probably from 1080x1200 into 540x600
wich is about right
mighty carbon
Btw, VR on Linux is just a "checkbox". There are only a handful of devs who are on Linux and even less than that who are into VR
tired tree
@native cedar lots of that article is still valid, but the GBuffer specifics are not game generic, it worked for their case but would be worse for a lot of other games.
Also it was before the forward renderer
where the runtime gbuffer switching is defunct anyway
native cedar
I am appreciating a lot of what that guy did
but the smaa or tx+fx aa integrations don't work on Vive 😦
the images just keep moving
tired tree
well, i mean its many engine versions behind
you can't just pull in code like that when they have been refactoring the renderer
zinc violet
native cedar
nah I got THEIR 4.12 implementation
their stuff works in normal game, not in VR
I'm still trying to get msaa combined with fxaa
I feel it's the best way to go
wicked oak
bad idea
you are getting the antialiased image of msaa and then blur it more
very very bad idea
native cedar
thing is, I tried toggling msaa and fxaa back and forth
where msaa is aliased, fxaa isn't and vice versa
mighty carbon
MSAA is for geometrical edges only
real needle
Does anyone know how to switch from a non vr-player to a vr-player in runtime
mighty carbon
I am having issue with UMG, where it's aliased even on the edges of the widgets 😦
it wouldn't be the case with FXAA
tired tree
yes it would
if you already are running MSAA
you are mobile aren't you?
MSAA is already a huge perf hit, why are you trying to make it worse by adding another perf hit
tired tree
?
MSAA is highest cost AA in engine
though for mobile
bandwidth might be an issue for TAA
mighty carbon
not for Gear VR / Galaxy S series apparently
native cedar
@tired tree actually, txaa can cost much more according to the supersampling rate
txaa easily takes up to 2ms on my 1080
tawdry dragon
@real needle I tried doing it by executing the "stereo on" console command. Worked fine for the HMD, but then motion controllers wouldnt work.. I never got it working runtime
native cedar
even more, perhaps
tired tree
how much supersampling are you even running?
mighty carbon
my point is that UMG doesn't get AA with MSAA
native cedar
so up to 200
mighty carbon
Edges of 3D Widget that is
native cedar
also I noticed supersampling is somewhat more costly in deferred than in forward
real needle
@tawdry dragon I just found the "Enable HMD" Node facepalm well that kinda works xD
tawdry dragon
does it also work with MC tracking?
I couldnt get trigger events etc. to fire properly
real needle
don't know, I have no MC on this setup, just the HMD
tired tree
doubt it
tired tree
it shuts down the entire HMD system
real needle
I have the oculus and the oculus remote works just fine
mighty carbon
some explanation about MSAA on mobile by Oculus
mobile GPUs run MSAA faster than desktop GPUs ?
real needle
@tired tree well "Enable HMD" works on my end at least for the HMD and the Oculus Remote. But I have to stark with the HMD otherwise it does not recognize or "activate" the HMD
tired tree
weren't you talking about disabling he headset but keeping motion tracking?
real needle
I don't know if the motion controllers would work the same, but I guess yes
no, the no-vr-player i was talking about is just a third-person character you are moving
with a mouse driven camera
tired tree
Motorsep, he is talking about Mali chips doing the box filtering by default
must have dedicated piplines for MSAA then
tired tree
its still more costly as a technique :p they are covering it up with dedicated hardware
yeah looks like enable hmd only stops the custom stereo presentation
tracking should still work
or at least in steamVR thats where it leads
real needle
I just would like to start a game with a menu and after creating a session I would like to switch to a VR Player.
But maybe I will create a separate 3D Menu Map for that with 3D Widgets if I struggle to much with this approach xD
tired tree
actually come to think of it I already knew that...my fps pawns I have to manually remove controller tracking from during testing out of VR mode
prime iris
Are there any tricks to make UMG draw it's widgets at a higher resolution for use in the world? Or am I going to have to make gigantic widgets by hand?
I tried altering the projects dpi settings but I'm not sure that does anything since the screen resolution is relatively sane
real needle
Maybe you could create multiple widgets and then combine them in a way so they appear to be huge
prime iris
easier just to make a huge widget. it's mainly down to text rendering
16pt when scaled to be 1 meter tall looks like linux font rendering!
vanilla linux font rendering at least 😄
native cedar
did it! Ms+fx aa
fxaa does compensate a bit the aliasing left from msaa, but it's still not enough for a project to be perfectly crisp under any circumstances. Right now the best quality is still bestowed by forward + sp 200 + txaa
tired tree
I mean...if you guys are trying for clear UI, if you don't mind it being not bound in world you could use stereo layers and draw a widget to the layer
I also don't know what widget render size you are using, pretty sure scaling down keeps that original render target size intact
real needle
I do not understand the use of stereo layers currently. Can you provide any good information or ressources on that? (I have never used it so shame on me)
tired tree
if you intend to do widgets with them I think you'll end up manually rendering the widgets to the layer target
so c++ only right now, afaik
wicked oak
i couldnt get widgets working to render layers
they werent transparent
so it was a black background, or other color background
wich made them useless
tired tree
i mean...that is obviously something that should be able to be worked around..
tired tree
they just got stereo layers in as a default
they might get there eventually
or not
never know
mighty carbon
@wicked oak why not to use opaque background ?
Carmack always complains about text hanging in the air
tired tree
WidgetTarget->ClearColor = FLinearColor::Transparent;
on the render target?
actually think someone already did it too
mighty carbon
Do UMG widgets in Stereo Layers get AA'ed?
prime iris
yeah, 1px boders are aliasing like crazy :'<
well, i guess i'll just make it ugly for now and polish it later
tired tree
with a stereo layer since its a managed render target and not postprocessed / AA you should just be able to render to a larger texture and then downsample to the screen
getting higher quality images
wicked oak
yup, i have problems with my simple HUD on ps4
temporal AA + 60 fps...
normal ps4 at 100 res runs about the same at ps4pro at 150 screen percentage
for VR
not using any of the fancy shit ps4pro has
but i can do a full playthrough without dropping one frame
mighty carbon
@tired tree but then what to do when bound by 3Gb of RAM total ? (on mobile)
tired tree
its one texture....
i mean you are in the game of compromises here
being on mobile
at some point you are going to have to sacrifice quality or performance
PC VR has the same problem with 100x the hardware
mighty carbon
I guess quality has to be sacrificed since performance sacrifice leads to motion sickness
tired tree
pretty much
its early days anyway, gameplay is the big sell at the moment
people crave well done VR ATM and there is a lack of it
mighty carbon
AMD Ryzen is released officially (sounds like in the form of pre-orders)
I wonder how it will fare against Intel in VR
prime iris
The only benchmark I've seen so far is in a heavily multithreaded environment
and it was one set up by AMD for the release event
so if you ever have to encode video while rendering a 3d scene it's faster than intels offerings!
but realworld performance it's probably just going to be okay and it'll be cheaper too
wicked oak
also a single thread test where it beat the 1000 dollar 8 core intel
at single thread
looks like it wont beat the 7700k 4 core
mighty carbon
tests can be rigged
wintry escarp
new AMD cpus are looking good
mighty carbon
also Ryzen isn't cheap at all :/
wintry escarp
its half intel price at high end
prime iris
i upgraded with skylake so i'm good on the cpu front for another few years. i want gpu competition! so nvidia can stop charging 2-3x what they should be ;P
raven halo
if rumors are to be believed there will be lower end CPUs coming from AMD as well
mighty carbon
wintry escarp
I got a 4770k years ago and intels cpus have hardly upgraded since then, but prices have slid upwards constantly
prime iris
@mighty carbon the same could be said about high end PCs
develop aiming for desktop, port for mobile junk down the road!
also using google cardboard as a VR platform kind of biasses things 😄
"do you have a mobile phone and want to watch 3d... um... movies?"
mighty carbon
I mean, Gear VR is top earning actual VR platform
Cardboard isn't even VR, it's shit
wintry escarp
it is vr
prime iris
it's virtual virtual reality
mighty carbon
lol, whatever you say
wintry escarp
you feel like its around you and it moves to match your head
prime iris
can it do stereoscopic?
or is it just a 3d viewfinder mainly due to rendering constraints?
mighty carbon
come on, the head tracking is horrible
anything can do stereoscopic, even 3D glasses 😛
prime iris
mobile VR certainly is the future, but it wont be until it's as good as or better than desktop VR
mighty carbon
but the lagless tracking and other goodies is what makes VR real
wintry escarp
it should never be better than desktop
prime iris
sure, but i'm pretty sure the 69% market share in that pie chart isn't made up for devices that can render scenes in real time stereoscopically. at least not especially pretty ones
prime iris
are valve making many talks at gdc?
I want to see what they've done with VR and gdc might be a good place to talk about it 😄
if they make us wait til the next dev days i'll be disappointed
tired tree
Ryzen looks really good, and even if slightly worse in the end than Intels offering, Intel CPU's are already down $100 on average and should drop farther now that real competition is out
wicked oak
even if slightly worse, its an 8 core for one third of the price
mighty carbon
I went with AMD one time.. Don't trust it anymore.
(had to basically buy whole new PC to upgrade)
prime iris
i haven't had an amd cpu since speeds were measured in mhz
tired tree
i'm still on amd
multithreaded its great and I do a lot of multithreaded coding
Ryzen is just a nice evolution
prime iris
i'd probably try them again some time but i started an intel streak after having a couple of machines that were relatively unstable but amd based
tired tree
never had an unstable AMD pc, thats generally MOBO issues
unless you went bulldozer
i skipped that crap
prime iris
i'm talking 200-350mhz era amd ;P
tired tree
ah, I was on AMD back then too
but they had their best on the Athalon 64 era, those were beasts for the time
they brought back the original designer of those chips for Ryzen
mighty carbon
I am not saying it's a bad hardware
prime iris
but if it was good they could charge more for it!
mighty carbon
AMD was just coming out with all kind of new sockets, so I would have to upgrade mobo to get more powerful AMD. And seeing how all games and 3D apps run better on Intel, it didn't make sense to keep upgrading AMD system.
So, I ended up getting Z170 mobo and Skylake.. Now I can go to Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake without upgrading mobo.
tired tree
AMDs best CPU's have been on AM3 for a loooooong time
mighty carbon
I just feel that getting AMD will put me in the same position - next gen Intel might beat crap out of AMD again and for the next 5 years all we'll have is Ryzen
prime iris
don't say the k-word.... i have a 4k monitor, a netflix subscription, and a 6700 :<
tired tree
Considering that they finally have a good archi again and both companies are working on 7nm production lines.....not that worried
would also rather see AMD at least show up a little to Intel so prices across the board drop
also the AMD power draw...my god
its like 900 series nvidia to 10x series all over again
mighty carbon
there is another reason to stick with Intel 😃
I guess I'll stick with what I have now, upgrade CPU to the max and 5 years later see what both AMD and Intel have to offer
prime iris
cpu upgrades aren't especially important these days. i used my first gen i7 until skylake. pretty sure this one will last just as long (if i don't break to netflix needing hardware h265 decoding for 4k)
tired tree
why would that be a reason to stick with intel?
i'm saying AMDs power draw is fantastic
8 core, 16 threads with 65w draw
nvidia 9x to 10x was a power draw decrease, way more efficient
mighty carbon
ah, I see
tired tree
thats TDP too, 3970x 6 core 12 threads is a TDP of 150w
tired tree
and they are comparable to all intel processors currently, far cheaper, like 1/2 the TDP wattage.....
its good news
laptops will love them
wicked oak
still too many watts for laptops
but a beefy as hell laptop with the 65 w variant might happen
the main issue is that those have no integrated gpu
so on laptops, battery would be literally nothing
zenith charm
Anyone tried to control a vehicle/steering wheel with vive controllers with any success? Say gripping it to steer
wicked oak
too much watts, and you need to use the dedicated gpu
i did
works badly
it gets your hand tired, and you have no feedback
zenith charm
Dang ok, did you have an example you tried/working or just going by the obvious issues with dealing with that setup? curious. have an idea how to combat the first but feedback is the main I think
wicked oak
its been a while, i dont have it anymore
but i did it with physics
the wheel had locked location, but could rotate in one direction
you used a physics handle on the place you touched to rotate it
when not touched, it returned back to rotation 0
i used its relative rotation to control the stuff
zenith charm
exact thing I was working on setting up/thinking to do it. guess it doesn't work well then lol
wicked oak
its n ot that it doesnt work
its that it doesnt feel good
its floaty as hell
if you plan it for only a small part of the game, then its good
but a racing game like thaT? hell no
zenith charm
Gotcha. well maybe I'll be ok then if I do something similar
prime iris
@zenith charm I saw a video of somebody that did a makeshift joystick that used a vive wand
they pressed the bottom of the controller against the arm of his chair and controlled a plane/helicoptor with it
not gunna be as good as a self-centering real joystick but it was a pretty novel take on controls 😄
mighty carbon
just make a good game and people will buy steering wheels 😃
prime iris
i need to get one at some point
zenith charm
Really interesting setup there, pretty cool 😃 and that's true.
prime iris
the problem with playing games is that it takes up my making games time!
mighty carbon
tell me about it 😒
real needle
im using PN Triangles tessellation on a material for displacement, and in VR i am getting a shimmery appearance (does not look the same as it does in the editor). I have instanced stereo enabled and am using 4.11
anybody experienced this?
raven halo
I did too. it would happen with no instance stereo as well.
never found a solution to it, so I'm using BumpOffset instead
which works surprisingly well in VR
@mighty carbon I've seen you mention aliasing of text in UMG, right? Were you referring specifically to GearVR? If so, I've noticed the same issue and I have no idea if it can be improved
mighty carbon
I mean, if I have a 3D widget, edges of that widget will get aliasing
(imagine a square widget filled with solid color)
I personally don't care much about aliasing
I still play conventional games without any AA
but Carmack seems to be pretty adamant about it, so I am guessing it might be a disqualifier
real needle
@raven halo hmm, in my case it actually was the instanced stereo
hopefully i didnt need that, lol
real needle
apparently 1000+ draw calls is where instanced stereo really helps
raven halo
in my project I'm heavily GPU bound, not so much CPU bound, so I have it turned off
mighty carbon
in Gear VR ?
mighty carbon
~$400 more and Nolo VR will support wireless VR for desktop
if it uses Bluetooth 5.0, then I am not sure if it's enough for 6DoF tracking
young urchin
is there a trick to getting VR preview to correctly detect controllers when switching between multiple editor instances?
if I open a second project and then try VR preview on the first, the hmd tracks fine but the controllers do not
fresh laurel
raven halo
will it be sold separately? I assumed it would be boundled with the new gearvr
echo flax
my vr game's out http://store.steampowered.com/app/588340
reef totem
So, VR materials. Tips? Tricks? Working on a master material and want to make sure I'm optimized well.
pearl tangle
keep things minimal?
mighty carbon
@raven halo @wintry escarp Nolo VR is/will be sold separately. New Gear VR will come with its own controller.
congrats @echo flax That was fast though 😃
echo flax
I don't fuck around
Thank 😃
@mcgillchris use simple parallax with bumpoffset. Looks great in vr
mighty carbon
apparently there use different tracking in space.. Maybe it will eventually replace constellation ?
pearl tangle
yeah I think Oculus will abandon the constellation tracking by the next phase of hardware
kinda useless if he is just using the remote for it though but I can't imagine that picture is accurate
also seems like it would be a nightmare rigging up a bunch of USB cables from a laptop to run the cameras and whatnot
mighty carbon
if they do, I hope they will do it for gen 1.5 (so that Rift itself still can be used)
(I'd hate to get Rift and then worry about upgrading to newer HMD due to upgraded tracking 😦 )
pearl tangle
seems pretty unlikely
the current rift is built fully around that system, not really something you can just abandon
pearl tangle
also congrats on the launch @echo flax looks interesting. Is that fully a 1 man job for all of that or you have a couple of guys?
hah the guy definitely knows his shit
echo flax
I've got a team working on the main game SSVR is a spin-off of, but SSVR itself was mostly me
Lots of reused content
pearl tangle
whats the main game? How are you handling PR and whatnot for your stuff too? Im trying to think about how I might be able to setup something to do the marketing/ PR pieces and help out indie devs a bit on VR stuff
pearl tangle
well I am looking at ways that can help, but also make business sense too. Still trying to think about how that type of stuff could work for these types of things with essentially zero budget and low sales figures for VR at the moment. I have a bunch of partnerships in place and a lot of skilled people around for things so gotta be some way to make it attractive to people
mighty carbon
makes sense
wintry escarp
but new gearvr controller will work for people who already own a gearvr wont it
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp only makes sense.. Get Nolo VR if 2016 Gear VR
S6 + Gear VR 2016 + Nolo VR
or
Gear VR 2017 w/ controller + whatever phones it will support
or
Gear VR 2017 w/o controller + S6 + Nolo VR
pearl tangle
I think Nolo will be another 1 of those things that never happens. The STEM controller can already work with mobile VR and give you full body tracking. they just are taking forever to actually do anything with it because they knowit's already nearly dead technology
wintry escarp
why would you make a gearvr controller, then make it so it doesn't work on the millions of gearvr already out
if it uses bt theres no reason to block it
mighty carbon
@wintry escarp that's the idea.. Controller comes with new Gear VR, so you won't buy it without it. Also make sense to have people buy new phones to be able to take full advantage of new Gear VR.
It would be nice if it worked with S6 and S7
pearl tangle
why would you build a new computer that doesn't let you run windows 95 on it?
technology changes, things advance. You don't see sony going and adding PSVR support for PS1 just because there are millions of PS1's out there
restive blade
has anyone built a VR project that can be submitted to both oculus and steam stores without changing stuff ?
I tried to put up my project.. and they had an automated msg telling me to remove the steamVR plugin.. ( that kinda kills my code also )
pearl tangle
you should have a different "build" version for each platform
you just disable the plugin for that build,but you should have a tonne of other stuff disabled for build too that it would normally package in a project
best way is to migrate the levels to a new project just for building
restive blade
ugh... moronic situation... the reality is that my current project works on both systems
pearl tangle
yeah but that's just Oculus telling you that right, steam doesn't care. Occulus doesn't want you including vive support and extra bloat into the software for their store
it's the general process for building a project though to use a separate project for the actual distribution build too so that you don't end up having a lot of unecessary stuff in there
restive blade
yeah... the bloat is 40 k...
pearl tangle
probably a bunch of other plugins and stuff packaged in you don't need too. Mobile is the main problem for that stuff. But yeah oculus just doesn't want you to have vive support built in, thats all they care about
restive blade
Yeah.. I understand lockout all to well... Just makes it harder for me to make a good product..
glossy agate
Im trying to get my demo setup on steam, but when I try to test run it doesn't show up in the VR library in my steam app. It actually won't even launch. Anyone got a fix?
My launch options are set the "launch steam vr" still shows up in the wrong spot
pearl tangle
you included the steam api properly?
rugged abyss
@glossy agate the executable should be be your folderUploadedToSteamName/GameName.exe not just the exe... also make sure you publish your changes and don't have anything in the beta branch section
sturdy coral
@glossy agate aside from the launcher options, in app admin under "application" click virtual reality and make sure you do all the set up there
glossy agate
Thank you, Ill try again when I wake up
clever sky
@echo flax Cool stuff. Just bought and tried your game SSVR. Lots of stuff to like in there, but also some undeniably jank.
The 'wipe the blood off your face' mechanic to restart needs to be rethought. You just end up punching your HMD with your controller.
Also hard to tell how much damage you're doing. Some enemies taking 10+ hits (where blood splashes and they react, not just ghost swipes) without signs of going down.
Had an enemy cornered and they were disarmed... and i just kept swinging - which kinda hit her a couple times
but she still managed to walk through the swipes pick up a sword and end me. 😛
echo flax
each guard's tougher than the last
probably could use a more communicative approach 👍
thanks for the buy!
clever sky
No worries. Good bit of fun.
Mainly bought it to try out the ghost hand mechanic.
And it kinda works. But mostly it doesn't because you don't see your hands with the limited FOV and fast action.
Good luck with the dev. I assume you'll keep working on it 😛
pearl tangle
once we have some gloves and the tracker and a headset that doesn't stick 6 inches out from your face would probably be easier
clever sky
Yeah, that'll be nice 😃
Start with wireless first.
Which at least is definetly coming.
pearl tangle
hah yeah, still too many issues with it though
my backpack PC got shipped today so that should be good fun 😃
clever sky
Oh yeah. It doesn't suit your requirements (more than 1 system running per room)
That's a shame 😛
pearl tangle
hopefully with time
clever sky
Otherwise I was going to say, what do you need a backpack PC for when you've got wireless? 😛
pearl tangle
I will still definitely use it at home and for as much stuff as I can
clever sky
Hopefully I won't find myself in that situation quite as much.
pearl tangle
yeah I think the backpack PC's will be an extinct breed within 18 months
pearl tangle
but it's still a pretty decent PC in it's own right, and I needed to give a client a machine. So I am giving them the Magnus EN1070 that I got and getting us the backpack which has pretty much the same specs + batteries
clever sky
One nice thing about the backpack PCs is that it has the D/C built into it for the Vive.
Other than that... I wanted to have the versatility of a laptop and accounted for the wireless stuff getting to market within this year.
pearl tangle
i got the MSI which also has the hotswappable batteries, but they haven't released the battery charger yet so the only way you can actually charge them is by plugging them into the backpack hah
clever sky
On the other hand... if I was part of a well heeled organization, I too would want a backpack PC 😄
pearl tangle
yeah I have a couple of the laptops as well but was planning to grab a magnus en1080 rather than the backpack but figured why not
clever sky
@pearl tangle Haha... that seems a bit inconvenient.
restive blade
waves at Zaptruder and ZoltanJr
restive blade
Well.. early release 😛
clever sky
You're going to keep working on it?
pearl tangle
we need to do a sticky on here to show all the released games and who is working on them
clever sky
VR games. Nice screenies.
"FAQ
How nauseating is the game in VR?
This is an extreme VR experience that simulates sudden and dramatic acceleration, freefalling, twisting and rolling. Even with the 90 FPS frame rate, it is not for VR-sensitive players. "
restive blade
space stuff seems to be a big draw card with VR devs
clever sky
On one hand, it's nice that we get options.
On the other hand... it feels like games like that need to be gated behind some sort of clickthrough acknowledging that this shit is puke city.
"Hey yo... are you sure you want this? Because if you're motion sick prone, you'll probably want a refund!"
The alternative is: "Ooh, shiny screenshots." oh why do I feel so sick ... "fuckin' VR man"
pearl tangle
yeah you see on so many things guys complaining about not having normal game locomotion, but 90% of people playing vr dont want it
teleporting is kinda shit, but it's still the easiest way to get around large spaces without making people sick
really annoying on the touch though compared to vive
clever sky
CAOTS doesn't work for everyone! But I'd wager it can work for the majority of users 😛
And I think between dash and blink, I can probably cater to near the teleportation threshold.
Still. I've been thinking about creating a teleportation option as well, but with my twist on it.
Well... it'd be a derivation of one of those avatar walks to then you teleport there solutions.
pearl tangle
personally im still not a fan of the walking on the spot stuff either
everybody has preferences
clever sky
Yeah, not everyone is. But there are a good number 😃
everybody has preferences
That's for sure.
restive blade
CAOTS vs CHAOS 😛
pearl tangle
i would have loved to have my omnidirectional treadmill, but nobody seems to get the damn things out yet
clever sky
Are ODTs really that much better than a good walking in place solution?
I haven't tried one myself... but from what I've read about them... they're still lacking in a few important areas. And have some pretty significant cons.
Other than the fact that there's not much support.
pearl tangle
oh yeah pretty much still every solution that is around has a lot of drawbacks. unless you create something that gives you full mobility and freedom of movement in a large space then it's going to have drawbacks
clever sky
Well, unless you have the ability to bend the laws of time space, or do direct neural stimulation, then we're stuck having to deal with some sort of compromise
But some solutions are better than others in the overall scheme of things 😛
pearl tangle
there are still a lot of interesting ways we can trick peoples brains with props and stuff. making people walk around in circles and think they are going up and down floors on elevators is interesting
clever sky
Circle/redirected walking kinda works. But only for larger scale out of home solutions.
I was just having this conversation on Reddit. But yeah, the vestibular system is imprecise, but it's not completely imprecise... you need about 15-25m of space to make it work well.
Er... 15-25m diameter
Which is great for 'The Void'.
And I wanna try it.
pearl tangle
yeah we can do cool stuff with that
clever sky
Not so useful for at home stuff.
pearl tangle
just a vibrating floor to simulate a lift and going back upstairs is clever
clever sky
Ah yeah.
pearl tangle
actually there was that other game that generates the different room platforms
unseen diplomacy or something?
clever sky
BTW, did you order one of those new vibrating straitjackets?
sharp swan
I love that great trick most VR games use, when you pay full price and get a demo. Best, marketing, ever.
clever sky
Unseen diplomacy yeah. That uses a cruder form of redirected walking that only really works in the context of that game.
@sharp swan What's a 'full price game'?
sharp swan
two fiddy
Eve Valkyrie was full price twice. Once at release, then they upped it again for the steam release :p
clever sky
Ah yeah. Well... welcome to VR. Where the market is too small to sustain large scale development efforts unless someone wants to take a loss.
And even then... you're not going to find many that want to take huge unrelenting losses just because.
sharp swan
someone has to bite the bullet. If they make a game good enough it will drive sales of VR. it won't happen the other way around.
clever sky
Except for maybe Oculus or Sony. Valve too busy making their own games.
sharp swan
oh yeah vlave got 3 on the go atm
clever sky
So maybe Valve too, but they're not giving cash to other players to do that 😛
sharp swan
just make candy crush VR and everyone will clamber to get it :p
clever sky
But A-AAA game quality takes even non-VR devs a good number of years.
sharp swan
meh depends on the game. It's not exactly much different making a VR game if you follow the rules as you go rather than learn them as you go
clever sky
Candy crush/flappy bird doesn't happen in this market at this stage. Those kinds of products occur in a mature ecosystem with hundreds of millions of users with applications at commodity prices 😛
Someone makes a Candy Crush or flappy bird and the current userbase will shit on it and move on!
cobalt relic
What's the attach rate like for VR games ? Say, how many PSVR were sold for each copy of Robinson ?
sharp swan
PSVR got a good foothold but im not sure it's beating any hype/fad yet. Still seems to me like an afterthought for most gamers
marsh river
@cobalt relic That question seems backwards, attach rate is normally measured in % of hardware owners that buy particular software or how many games does one piece of hardware own.
For something like PSVR I believe the estimated hardware is 750k
RE7 VR last time I checked was around the 225k mark?
So very very high attach rate for the #1 title as expected
cobalt relic
What i'm wondering is whether people are enthusiast for VR but don't like the games, or the opposite (or neither)
marsh river
For normal titles the attach rate is a lot higher due to it being the early adopter market
Titles over a decent quality threshold with some visibility are doing well attach rate wise from what I've seen (i.e. better than a non-VR game would do)
That's a general comment re: PC + PSVR
However it's a % of a smaller number of devices, as the installed base grows those existing titles and new titles will be looking to see a similar high attach rate IMO
Which is good for everyone
clever sky
I wonder if RE7 is helped by been a dual compatible title.
i.e. people buy it wanting to play RE7... and know that they can play it on the TV screen if it doesn't work well for them in VR.
marsh river
I'm sure it is but it's still 225k people who invested in PSVR and have actively played it in VR
sharp swan
@cobalt relic I've been using VR since dk1 times and it's been a drag for me. The lack of quality early on really made me dislike it. I kind of got into it a bit more with Rift CV1 but there are no VR type games that I want to play that have been done well yet.
clever sky
What kinda games do you want to play?
That you think haven't been done well yet.
@pearl tangle You getting one of these?
http://www.hardlightvr.com/
pearl tangle
nah i don't touch kickstarter anymore
just had another 1 today that im not getting anything from again. lost thousands of bucks on people that dont deliver anything
clever sky
Fair enough.
pearl tangle
@sharp swan you can't really expect there to be quality games around for DK1 or DK2 headsets
clever sky
That's some hella bad luck tho 😛
pearl tangle
controller games still don't interest me at all though either
at least some stuff is starting to get a bit better. arizona sunshine is good fun in co op, it's a good start at least
clever sky
I've gotten most of my kickstarters. The only ones I haven't are still in development, but are making real progress.
But then I don't think I've been as prolific in backing hardware stuff as you sound like you've been 😛 which is probably a riskier venture.
sharp swan
@clever sky : I couldn't really say. I guess rogue like puzzle games or something. Dungeon crawlers. RoboRecall looks fun.
@pearl tangle : Im settling for dk2 atm but even when I play on the CV1, nothing is too interesting. Nvidia funhouse was about the most fun with Touch controllers but mostly because Im an nvidia fanboy and love to see the gameworks in action.
pearl tangle
nah i did the stuff years back, around when oculus did their 1. i haven'tbacked anything for over 12 months
clever sky
OTOH, would you get one if not for the kickstarter?
(i.e. you seem interested in VR gear, any interest in this kinda stuff?)
We live in the future!
pearl tangle
in theory haptic feedback suits are really awesome. in practice, spending 5 minutes to put on gear is not a workable solution for most people. otherwise I would just be using the perception neuron for all the stuff
clever sky
Fair call. It does seem particularly bulky.
sharp swan
I say just make a haptic jockstrap and leave the rest. It's all I need...erm... WE. It's all WE need. ¬_¬
clever sky
I've got the Woojer on order... a more workable compromise (just a vest).
@sharp swan Are you sure you don't need a teledildonic fleshlight to go along with your vibrating jockstrap?
sharp swan
that would be something for christmas
clever sky
Unfortunately, the XXX gaming market is just not large enough for AAA XXX titles.
I guess its because interactive 3D software tends to be associated with kids games/toys too much due to its origins.
sharp swan
I have wondered many times how much people with VR would appreciate peripherals to accent immersion. Such as, I have a prototype VR motorbike game sitting around and I always thought I could pay a friend to construct a simple plastic analogue controller that acts as motorcycle handlebars with a throttle and brake etc. It sits between your legs and rests on them to keep it sturdy. Then you can lean them over your legs left<->right to steer in game. Every little helps right? I bet I could make that peripheral prototype for a couple of hundred too and they would be cheap as chips to reproduce
clever sky
I think there'd be a lot that'd appreciate it.
But... there's a significant chicken egg problem with all peripherals.
The only way it's ever skirted is when the peripheral is attached to a mega-success... like DDR, guitar hero, rockband, etc.
But even then, those peripherals are kinda one note devices... so essentially the cost of the hardware and distribution is factored into the cost of the game in the mind of consumers.
sharp swan
yeah. Thats why I would take the sega approach. Make every game a new thing advertising wise. Give it a standardised naming convention such as "VR-Real Racing" or "VR-Real Badminton" etc. (in the style of Virtual-Fighter etc). Bit of a risk for me, as I have no money and 4 kids, but someone will do it
clever sky
Well... it could be an interesting way for VR arcades to differentiate themselves
But even then... there's some hefty logistical issues to deal with.
i.e. do they have an inventory of plastic bits that they have to manage and maintain? How many of these bits can they have on hand before it becomes overwhelming?
sharp swan
So much I want to do with VR. First up, VR Gyms need to be a thing. Second, I have wanted to make a VR casino for a couple of years now. I could probably even use the current Flash/HTML5 games. But really something that lets you feel like you are in a Vegas casino and can chat with others, celebrate a win etc. Get comps.
clever sky
Is it more economic to have some high quality bits like one type of gun mount, and one type of sitting mount... and encourage developers to add that functionality?
VR Gyms would be cool. But the HMDs need to be more waterproof and lighter/better balanced
marsh river
AR Gyms > VR Gyms IMO
sharp swan
yeah that cushion would get soaked :p
sharp swan
AR Gyms too. I kind of put VR/AR in the same box.
marsh river
In terms of 'Dungeon Crawlers' we're making a co-op VR MORPG - http://uploadvr.com/exclusive-raiders-of-erda-preview/
clever sky
@marsh river Not sure about that. Ok, I mean, AR so you can continue perving 😛
marsh river
Hah, no more so I don't get crushed by someone elses weights
clever sky
Well, you'd assume they'd have a VR area properly setup away from other users.
marsh river
I don't really see that being practical for a gym business
Knowing our gym owners very well
clever sky
Yeah, it depends on the gym. Serious gym is not the place to do it.
marsh river
If you want this to go big then I imagine AR so it can see the equipment you're using, show some good form, keep track of my reps / rest periods
clever sky
But it's a decent vector for some reasonable exercise; as games like SPT and Holopoint prove.
marsh river
and then have an AR based virtual PT
sharp swan
@marsh river : good man. There is always room for dungeon crawlers. I am more into sci-fi personally but I do play the pointy hat games too.
marsh river
plus it would be cool to be anywhere in the world
and still work out with back home gym buddies 😃
lonely hotel gyms get boring 😦
clever sky
@marsh river cool stuff re: your dungeon crawler.
marsh river
Thanks guys 😃 Right gotta dash
Been lurking for ages since the move to Discord
Slack was easier for me as I've got 5 or so other Slack's on the go
sharp swan
slack is the past. Discord is the future. Sponsored by Lazyboy chairs.