virtual-reality

[hard light]

tonal languages like Mandarin might be a lot more difficult

[wicked oak]

well, but english pronuntiation to text is kind of strange

japanese is more direct from text to phonetics

[hard light]

yeah, it's not quite as phonetic as Japanese

[mighty carbon]

I wonder what would it cost (unless it'll follow standard subscription model on Adobe Cloud)

[wicked oak]

spanish is almost completely phonetic

[hard light]

but English can by typed phonetically (there's an alphabet for that)

[wicked oak]

true

[real needle]

Standard adobe cloud most likely

[clever sky]

Damnnnn this tech is pretty impressive.

And it's not 'just vocaloids'.

This is voice deconstruction and reappropriation.

Maybe some undelying similarities

But fundamentally different use cases.

[slender reef]

The generation seems to base the inflection from the start of the sentance, it sounds really natural

[clever sky]

Yeah. Amazing for pretty much any creative.

And voice actors will tremble.

[slender reef]

Nah I wouldn't go that far

[real needle]

Would love to get it even just for removing and rearranging words. Inserting some you forgot would be a cherry on top

[slender reef]

I meant essentially it's TTS but you're providing the voice

[clever sky]

I don't mean that it'll put voice actors out of work.

[slender reef]

As he says at the end, you "train it"

[neon zenith]

So I can make myself say dirty words over and over

[clever sky]

Just reduce the number of working hours significantly.

Retake? rerecord? It's ok! We got your voice on file!

Like... video game devs can now continue editing the script after recording with a decent chance of getting usable audio out of the stuff they already have.

[real needle]

Being able to edit a text representation would be nice just for speeding workflow. No need to manually use slice tool to cut out "ah" "um" "so like"

[clever sky]

That's pretty cool too 😃

[mighty carbon]

so, can you transform voice with that app ? (would be cool for garage indies as voice actors don't come cheap)

[clever sky]

Cool for everyone.

[mighty carbon]

StarCraft 2 got Google's DeepMind integration

I wonder if UE4 will get something similar for any of the major AI solutions

[clever sky]

They're not letting players play against DeepMind are they?

[mighty carbon]

didn't read into it

[clever sky]

Sounds like Deepmind is just moving onto its next challenge after Go

After that, it'll drop into DOTA and MOBAs and wreck everyone D:

[wicked oak]

Starcraft 2 ai is harder than dota/mobas

tons harder

[mighty carbon]

just thinking that VR really needs good AI (not combat AI alone)

[wicked oak]

a dota/moba AI can do group thinking wich makes perfect teamwork

[clever sky]

@wicked oak Deepmind isn't about cheating to beat humans

It's about using similar limitations to humans (fog of war, key press rate) and organically understanding the game mechanics

to improve and... become better than humans at it 😛

[wicked oak]

uhm, 5 deepmind AIs playing together

now that would be hilarious

[clever sky]

Yes, but they're not linked to each other

Now that'd be interesting as hell

Considering the potential communication barrier.

[mighty carbon]

how do people find VCs and angel investors without having 100% working prototypes ?!

[cobalt relic]

I believe they don't

Or they had previous successes

Or they are highly recommended by people the VC trust

But a vertical slice / gameplay prototype is really important

[winged shale]

@mighty carbon Buzzwords. It's called buzzwords.

and hype

[mighty carbon]

I see

[cobalt relic]

I don't know about @mighty carbon but lots of people ask for money when they have nothing to show

Like the UDG thread on the forums

"I have an idea for a game, why do I need a prototype to be funded ?"

[mighty carbon]

Well, in case of VR, prototype would be far off the final product

[cobalt relic]

It's all about how credible are you as a company owner who's going to generate revenue for the investor on the long term with acceptable risk

[mighty carbon]

so unless it's heavily scripted, it's won't be possible to make vertical slice in timely manner

let's put it this way - Magic Leap has nothing to show for and yet they still get money rolling in 😃

(and I doubt they had prototype initially)

so, I am guessing it's about who you know really

[cobalt relic]

In the case of AR/VR in general, it's the currently hyped thing, so it makes funding easier, I guess

But I highly doubt Magic Leap has nothing to show to investors

Like I said it's about trust, risk, and potential

[clever sky]

Assuming that Magicleap hasn't been pouring all their money into paying people to speak about their mythical display in hushed tones...

MagicLeap has something interesting.

Even if so much of what they're doing is a shambolic mess.

[cobalt relic]

To be fair, a vertical slice is super important for yourself, @mighty carbon . How confident in your game are you if it's not even playable ?

I mean I know the first playable version of my game was shit and needed a year of rework

[mighty carbon]

that's my point

while you can be polishing your prototype, someone grabs investment and makes same thing, but better, sooner

[wicked oak]

i have problems becouse i have no artists

so i have nice prototypes done in no time, but it isnt enough

need concepts and some art

wich i dodnt have

[mighty carbon]

obviously one can't go looking for investment without having a big picture..

[cobalt relic]

@mighty carbon Think of it as natural selection. if you can't do a showable prototype of your game in 3/6 months, then you're going to have a hard time completing it, even with funding

[clever sky]

Who's investing in games anyway? Such a high risk area of investment 😛

Aren't they just publishers at that point?

[wicked oak]

im in talks with some guys that are making an VR arcade chain

[cobalt relic]

The realistic course of funding these days is basically

• Do a vertical slice
• Do a kickstarter based on that
• Go through Greenlight / GOG / Sony / to self-publish your game
• Try VC funding during all that to see if you can get more

[wicked oak]

so i can build small games like one every month/2 months for them

so they have games unique to the stuff they have there such as gun controllers or those walking things

[mighty carbon]

@cobalt relic that is an incorrect statement. I can't make prototype in 3-6 month working day job. But if I had funding and small team, I certainly could. At the same time, AAA companies haven't done much for VR either (having money and time and resources).

[clever sky]

@wicked oak pretty cool. So basically contracting your skills out to VR Arcade startups to create content for them

Do their setups do anything different to home setups?

[wicked oak]

yup, exactly

[mighty carbon]

"Do KS" is so misguided. There are so many good projects that didn't get funding and so many projects that got funding and didn't pan out.

[wicked oak]

they do have funding, so the talks are basically putting me in charge of a "dev" division

to make games for arcades FIRST, and later to sell them to the public

[mighty carbon]

Also I don't need to go to Greenlight - I have publishing account on Steam

[wicked oak]

VR bypasses greenligt

[clever sky]

@wicked oak Fantastic stuff. Good luck - looking forward to seeing what comes of that.

[cobalt relic]

@mighty carbon With all due respect, I stand by my statement. If you aren't confident in your project enough to quit your job, why would they trust you with their money ?

VC's logic here

Not an attack on yourself 😃

[mighty carbon]

lol, seriously ?! Are you one of those guys from Silicone Valley who has no family and have stash of cash in the bank?!

[cobalt relic]

Like I said, not a persnnal attack

I am employed and I also make a game in my spare time

I'm just telling you what any VC or banker will tell you

[mighty carbon]

So many indies wrote postmortems specifically saying "DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB". They were sure in their product. It even sold some. But most of the game projects don't provide enough to make a living + to fund next project. It's not a matter of whether I have skills or believe in my project. It's a simple fact that one needs a team and funding to compete in this market.

[cobalt relic]

I am not saying otherwise

[mighty carbon]

But I get your point

[cobalt relic]

I am not quitting my job either

But I'm also not doing a KS or asking for funding

[mighty carbon]

I would't for PC/console game either (as a matter of fact wrapping up a small project we have been working on). But for VR I would need funding 😦 (in order to not be one of those small experiments)

[cobalt relic]

You need to understand that even a small development team means lot of money, 6 figures for basically any team. People won't help you with that unless they are confident you will make more. So you need to be trustworthy and have proof that

• Your game will happen
• People will buy it

KS / Greenlight helps with the second part

[mighty carbon]

the latter is not possible to predict

even with KS, you might get people funding your game, and past that no one else will buy it

[cobalt relic]

It doesn't really matter

You can't predict success but you can convince investors it's likely, which is the goal here. Ask yourself why your game is likely to earn 6 figures money

[wicked oak]

KS is ridiculously hard

ive already talked about that here i think

you need kickass concept art

[mighty carbon]

(of course people will buy it, but it might happen that not a lot of them; so KS is not a good indicator for game's success)

[clever sky]

KS definetly needs good art.

Gotta sell people on the emotions

[cobalt relic]

If you're trying to get me to say that the worls isn't fair and KS isn't fair, then yeah, I fully agree

Just trying to help here

[wicked oak]

what im ddoing its releasing thing

[mighty carbon]

nothing is fair 😃

[wicked oak]

so i can say that i have recovered my cost with the first game ive released

(tho cost is 900 dollars)

[cobalt relic]

I haven't even tried KS or investors because I don't believe it would work, I might consider it for my next game if the first is successful

Frankly if I was a VC I wouldn't fund myself

[mighty carbon]

lol

on the contrary, if I was VC, I would fund my project without hesitation (it's not really a game in classic sense of gaming)

[cobalt relic]

So you're confident it will make more money that it would cost to make ?

[mighty carbon]

in a long run, yes

but, it's entertainment business

shit happens

[cobalt relic]

And you know how much money you need until the game is done ?

[wicked oak]

i havent tried Ks becouse there is no way in hell i can do a good enough trailer and concept

so its just a waste of time

[mighty carbon]

I haven't created business plan as I have no idea where and how to look for VCs (and after years of observations, I highly doubt it's about anything else but who you know; that's how some weird and failed projects get funding - if connections didn't matter as much, those projects wouldn't have raked up millions in investments)

[winged shale]

so for all of you who were interested, I managed to fix a significant amount of the odd delay between motioncontroller and animBP update

there's still a very nearly imperceptible amount of lag between the two, but I'm not too worried about it now

all you have to do is:

[cobalt relic]

@mighty carbon You know it looks like a loop. No business plan -> no funding -> no business plan because no funding

But well, I hope you'll get some funding

[winged shale]

on each of your motioncontrollercomponents:
MoCoComponent->bDisableLowLatencyUpdate = true;

unfortunately I see no alternative to this, if you're working with a skeletal mesh IK for your VR motioncontrollers game you'll have to not have take the late frame update :/

[mighty carbon]

@cobalt relic it doesn't. When I find out how people find VCs / angle investors, I'll make business plan and pitch, then approach them. Otherwise it's a waste of time - I can have business plan collecting dust until the end of times.

[cobalt relic]

Well at least you can work on your prototype until that

[mighty carbon]

sure

it won't be representative, besides perhaps locomotion and few minor things 😃

[cobalt relic]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'd rather work on a smaller game without funding and try selling it

But i'd love to have a budget some day

[winged shale]

Stranger++

I'm following that, making a game and just trying to gain a following

[wicked oak]

thats what happens in raw data

and the hands lag a bit

[winged shale]

I think once I have enough people that care what I'm doing, it will be easy to gain attention and moneys

yeah!

[wicked oak]

still the most sold VR game

[winged shale]

I think that's how they "fixed" the offset difference

[wicked oak]

@cobalt relic im on the 3rd for that

[clever sky]

@winged shale Make sure the art is good!

[winged shale]

this is the remainder of it after the flag change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aanqjol-uDk

[clever sky]

@winged shale Doesn't have to be high def art though.

[winged shale]

yeah, I've still got my dev art in, once I get my movement and welding stuff down that's next on the list

[clever sky]

Noice

[winged shale]

I'm going for a simple style initially, because VR and beacuse time

[wicked oak]

ive made my enemies look you directly to the eye

its creepy af

[winged shale]

lol

[wicked oak]

they are skeletons

im remaking their AI to a smoother one, and improving their animations with a couple anim packs

now they are much more interesting

[wintry escarp]

has anyone been put off gearvr by the hassle of constantly moving the phone in and out of the headset to deploy new builds?

[mighty carbon]

not me

you don't really need to do that

I only did that initially, to get controls and core stuff working and gauge performance

once I figured it all out, I did the rest of the work on PC

[wintry escarp]

just use the mouse to look around?

[hard light]

I try to reduce phone deployments to a minimum

takes too long; test less frequently, but more thoroughly (rather than testing each little change in turn)

[mighty carbon]

yep, use mouse to look around, and whatever key you assign to emulate tapping the touch pad

[winged shale]

is there some kind of vector sandbox visualization program out there?

because doing vector maths in the brain gets cumbersome after like 10 transforms, and it would be a PITA if I debugged visually in editor for every resultant

[wicked oak]

its called graph paper 😛

no, seriously, graph paper is fine for that stuff

[mighty carbon]

XXI century, DeepMind in SC2, VR ... and we don't have vector visualization in UE4

@winged shale something to post about in https://forums.unrealengine.com/forumdisplay.php?24-Feedback-for-Epic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLSLnFVg3g

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?124057-Stadium-animation-and-VR

high performance crowds in VR

I still don't get how they pulled it off, no C++

[wicked oak]

Hey, can i use it for my VRMultigames?

would be cool to use that level on my goalkeeper minigame

[mighty carbon]

I don't know, I didn't make it 😃

[wintry escarp]

c# support would improve ue4 for me

[mighty carbon]

lol

[wintry escarp]

is gearvr supposed to get any sort of boost when Samsung phones get nougat?

[mighty carbon]

not really

maybe less overhead due to better drivers

and slimmer OS

maybe VR Vulkan will come to older phones

(Vulkan should be already supported, but it's no use for VR)

perhaps Daydream support will be available, although since it will use internal IMUs tracking will be shit. Still, usable for development.

[wintry escarp]

I hear the google daydream headset is super comfortable ,but leaks light in everywhere

[mighty carbon]

that's what I heard too

[prime iris]

does anybody have the VR template project on their machine? I think I've found a bug in the editor but just want somebody to confirm it. Go to BP_MotionController and on the blueprints variable editor right click "IsTeleporterActive" and click find references. For me, it only finds a single reference in "ActivateTeleporter" but the variable is used in other places (used in very first branch of DisableTeleporter).

think it could be due to the fact that the set node in ActivateTeleporter has a comment attached to it making it different to the uncommented ones

but just want to make sure it's bugging out for other people before i investigate the cause 😄

[restive blade]

I'll look now

yes... only 1 shows up

[prime iris]

4.13?

[restive blade]

but if you remove all the extra string information in the search. .you can see it in other places

[prime iris]

yeah, it's getting different guids soemhow

[restive blade]

welp.. got to get to work now!...

[dry fjord]

@slender reef I enjoyed the usual suspects talking out of their asses 😉

[slender reef]

@dry fjord 😉

[mighty carbon]

pffff 😒

[dry fjord]

😉

[real needle]

Peeps, I turned on steams online plugin to get access to friends list and now I'm seeing: "LogOnline:Warning: STEAM: Steam API disabled!"

I never had to enable/disable prior to this when I manually set subsystem in build.cs

[slender reef]

When you run in standalone, it should work fine

It's more for in editor

I think they just took that functionality out

Who knows

[dry fjord]

have you checked your HMD connections?

best help I can offer I'm afraid, I only know things about VR when I'm in this channel 😉

[real needle]

ah wrong channel sry. my new 1060 laptop is just too cute to keep my fingers off 😉

[dry fjord]

❤ 💻

[vocal maple]

I bought a marketplace plugin https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/user-interface-kit and it has functionality to drag and drop items from the inventory into the hotbar. How can I do this sort of drag and drop with 3d menus and widget interaction components?

[dry fjord]

email the person who sold it to you

they may have an answer

for $60 they should definitely have some kind of answer

that's a nice interface kit too

[vocal maple]

I'll send him an email, but maybe the solution is simple

I can grab the icon with the widget component, but when I grab it it gets drawn to my actual UI viewport and gets attached to my mouse cursor
I want for it to move not on my viewport plane, but on the plane of the ui that I dragged the spell from

[dry fjord]

hard to say mate

we're not familiar with it

[granite jacinth]

@vocal maple you should not expect support

Nowhere in his description did he offer 3Dwidget support

Or rather

WIC support

But, if you need help with WIC, I can help you

[vocal maple]

Do you know if drag and drop is possible with WIC?

[granite jacinth]

Anything you can do with a mouse you can do with WIC

As far as I know

Never tried it 😉

But, that may be kind of fun to do

[clever sky]

Yes, but you'd have to massage that marketplace asset, because it's doing things that only make sense in 2D UI

Like making icons stick to viewport D:

[dry fjord]

"I need help with this" "I can help you!" "okay, can I do xxx?" "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU PUT YOUR MIND TO!!! 🦄 🍰 👑"

[clever sky]

💯 🍆

[dry fjord]

I am gonna do this from now on

[granite jacinth]

@vocal maple Just curious though, why would you want to do that?

Are you trying to do something similar to Vanishing realms?

[sturdy coral]

anyone building with vr works?

after checking out NvPhysX/VRWorks-Graphics-4.13 , I get messages about modified nvidia .lib files in git status:

    modified:   Engine/Source/ThirdParty/NVIDIA/nvapi/amd64/nvapi64.lib
    modified:   Engine/Source/ThirdParty/NVIDIA/nvapi/x86/nvapi.lib

and they won't go away with 'git checkout -- <file>'

very strange, same md5sum, found some stuff that said it may be a weird thing with git windows line-ending conversion

[dry fjord]

check-out as-is, commit as-is

[dry fjord]

it got a bit hot for the old 3m tape today apparently, both my base stations fell off the wall

time to use those stands I guess

[clever sky]

Yeah, tape is great for temporary mounting

But if you want it to hold longer, better break out more permanent adhesives.

I say this with the experience of having used tape extensively D:

[dry fjord]

now I gotta remember what else I stuck to the wall with tape

I went a bit crazy for a while there, tape for everything

[winged shale]

(drill the holes, drill the holes)

[clever sky]

The lighthouses were especially not suitable for tape - weight but more importantly vibrations.

Lighter objects like remotes are tapeable.

[winged shale]

If I'm not mistaken, I think @dry fjord had the VDK1 which actually came with 3M tapes and these ridiculous custom plastic pieces that had attach points for the pre-cut 3M tapes, and a 1/4" 20 ballsocket

[clever sky]

Oh

Yeah, well I guess now that we've had them for a while, we're starting to get longitudinal results in testing 😛

Now we know!

[sturdy coral]

if you are going for tape, also tape a backup mount or hook and then tie it to that

[winged shale]

hehehe

indeed

Gripping 101

[sturdy coral]

so when the first mount fails from vibrations, the backup catches it 😛

[clever sky]

But you won't know the first has failed until both have failed 😛

[winged shale]

it was weird to me opening up the VDK1 and seeing that

seemed like a huge oversight for a limited-production prototype hardware

[clever sky]

Maybe they weren't expecting people to keep it up as long as they did. Evidently they corrected the oversight for consumer release.

[sturdy coral]

it will be hanging upside down, basically tie with a zip tie or some string to a backup 3M command hook

[clever sky]

Ah ok. I see what you're saying now.

[winged shale]

lol force you to repair it eh

"meh it's fine"

[sturdy coral]

I definitely know someone who had a drop, he said he cleaned everything the right way and stuff before mounting

[clever sky]

Just use tension poles

[winged shale]

I just drilled the holes

[clever sky]

Same

[sturdy coral]

I have this molding about 6in below my ceiling all around that old houses used to have for hanging pictures

[winged shale]

NICE

[clever sky]

But I'm lucky in that I have a bunch of wall hung cabs above head height

So I just drilled into those.

Of course... I had to drill the shit out of the wall to hang the cabs.

[winged shale]

my stupid house is constructed entirely out of plaster and lathe, so unfortunately I need proper concrete anchors for my walls, and have to hammer drill into them every time I reconfigure the house and move the base stations

[clever sky]

plaster and lathe?

[winged shale]

yeah the walls are made of concrete-like plaster slapped on top of wooden struts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lath_and_plaster

lath*

[clever sky]

Ah... ok. So the precursor to plasterboard

[winged shale]

precursor to drywall

yes

[clever sky]

Modern construction is kinda fascinating.

I updated my climbing system so you can only climb relatively grabbable handholds now.

Instead of climbing up any surface.

Good fun trying to navigate a city. You look for hand holds instead of just climbing things willy nilly.

Ass Creed in VR would be awesome.

Like... just a simple change like that makes you cognitively process the landscape around you significantly differently. VR is so great 😄

[dry fjord]

quiVR is quite good once I actually got into it

needs a WoW themed version

[clever sky]

Is quivr out?

[dry fjord]

still early access I think

I am sweating like a bastard and my left delt has had quite the workout

[clever sky]

Does it go beyond been a wave shooter?

[dry fjord]

wave shooter with a TALENT TREE woooo

[clever sky]

Hehe 😛

[dry fjord]

I would happily sit at various locations around azeroth shooting mobs

[clever sky]

TBH, I'd be happy just walking around Azeroth and drinking in all the feels

[dry fjord]

that too

[clever sky]

BTW, I've got a great wave shooter idea.

That someone should steal.

It's a cover based wave shooter right.

[dry fjord]

go on...

[clever sky]

But your cover gets progressively shot up

And you have to keep building it up

😄

[dry fjord]

would there be enemies walking back and forth a killzone but slowly advancing one turn at a time?

[clever sky]

Nah. They're shooters that snipe at your dumb butt

[dry fjord]

so not vr space invaders then 😉

[clever sky]

Nope 😛

[dry fjord]

I gotta get my locomotion systme up

fuck the kinect, it can wait

[clever sky]

Hehe

Where's a good place to learn how to do the IK stuff?

[dry fjord]

tutorials

once you know the basics it's trivial

[clever sky]

Fair enough

[dry fjord]

I can explain it in a few lines once you're ready

[clever sky]

What kinda basics? Animation BP basics?

[dry fjord]

grab SK_Mannequion and in its anim BP the first thing you do is scale the head and hand bones to zero

yeah

[clever sky]

Ah yeah

[dry fjord]

then add a socket to the head of the mannequin and use that to move it to the HMD every frame

then do two-bone IK on the hands to make them go to the controllers

then use the controller back-vector for the elbows

you're basically done

the rest is blendspaces for crouching

[clever sky]

Cool. Cool cool.

Interested to see how it works with a free movement system

[dry fjord]

make the body facing direction be the average of the hands versus the HMD or somthing

[clever sky]

Blending between walking animations and head/hand IK

[dry fjord]

easy

[clever sky]

Nice.

[dry fjord]

first thing you do is move the skeletal mesh to be under the HMD

then do all the animation states

then finally do the hand IK overtop

[clever sky]

Well that'll be a good starting point at least 😃

[dry fjord]

that's pretty much the tutorial 😉

[clever sky]

Wanna make it robust, and less jittery. So gonna only move the body if you move more than a certain amount

[dry fjord]

if you get stuck with Ik let me know, I've got it all figured out

you could put some interpolation on the body

[clever sky]

Nice. Cheers man. Will be a thing I dabble in next month.

[dry fjord]

so if you lurch foward it leans a first

have fun

[clever sky]

Don't need it yet 😛

[dry fjord]

hehe

[clever sky]

BTW, obduction getting Vive and Touch support.

Should be snazzy.

[dry fjord]

oh good

what did it have before? was it just non-motion controllered but still supported the buttons?

[clever sky]

As long as they don't go

Loading Human on us.

It was Oculus Remote + Xbox Gamepad

One or the other not both at once.

[dry fjord]

lame

[clever sky]

And standing (as opposed to roomscale)

[dry fjord]

what is the point of standing

all the discomfort, none of the benefit

[clever sky]

Well, it's easier to move around the room and inspect things

The main difference is that things like clipping and shadow movement stays rooted on the spot.

Also easier to do 360.

[pearl tangle]

ikinema is decent if you are on the indie license

their regular license of $30k a year is a bit much for an indie though

[clever sky]

Dayum

What's it do?

[pearl tangle]

ah just realised that chat was from way earlier and it hadn't scrolled

for your IK stuff

[clever sky]

Yeah. Mainly just wanna do VR IK, sounds like base unreal has me covered.

[pearl tangle]

ah depends how believable you want it to be

[clever sky]

True. I'll definetly be refining it.

[pearl tangle]

all the guys doing stuff with Optitrack with just basic full body tracking are using ikinema

[clever sky]

I've already got code that can do a reasonable guess of your feet and waist position

independent of your head

[pearl tangle]

there is another plugin i saw on marketplace for the foot tracking ik

im going to be using ikinema 1 for 1 we will do full body tracking with Optitrack or potentially steam vr tracking after i do the course and see how it compares. sensors over shoes, waist, head and hands. might give some around the elbows just for some extra benefit too.

[clever sky]

Sounds good for a full immersion setup!

[pearl tangle]

yeah got a brief at the moment to just design the most amazing VR thing we can come up with to get people excited about it. the framestore mars school bus thing is 1 of their reference pieces

[clever sky]

Anyway... let me rag on about the traversty that is Loading Human. It's this sci-fi adventure game for PSVR and Vive right.

But it's standing only.

Not just like - we won't bother moving the collision capsule, or move the shadows around. Benign standing only.

No. It's aggressively standing only.

i.e. if you move out of the standing position that we calibrated for you... then we'll blur the screen and make sure you're in that position

'what if I want to crouch' you ask?

stay standing. No seriously. We've provided you with motion controls that let you 'crouch' or 'stand'

If you point down with the controller and press crouch, the camera will lower in the game. If you point up and the controller while standing, then you can stand.

If you physically crouch? Sorry, out of bounds! Blurring the screen!

[pearl tangle]

so not even positional tracking working properly pretty much?

just like a 360 video that the camera occasionally moves for you

[clever sky]

Positional tracking within a small space

The point is, they put effort into making it shit 😛

[dry fjord]

ikinema is overkill for the task, surely?

at that price anyway

[pearl tangle]

depends what you are trying to do with it. ikinema does a lot of other stuff as well

they were trying to bump me out from the indie license since im in a bigger company but going to split off to our own company instead so that we can target different funding schemes specifically for vr and innovation etc

[wicked oak]

LOL that thing

i guess its for PSVR

becouse Vive has good enough tracking

[raven halo]

Can anyone fill me in about the HRTF audio status in Unreal?

what's the best option I have to date for the audio in VR in Unreal without having to purchase any expensive licenses?

Does the Oculus Audio plugin finally work?

[lapis glen]

What is the best way to take a screenshot inside a VR game? Just use the command called Shot ?

[slender reef]

I believe so yeah, the highres shot command

[lapis glen]

I dont need the highres shot.

But thanks.

[wicked oak]

i normally build a bullshot

to get good "gameplay" captures for a VR game

so i do a cinematic with a couple enemies around and the guns in the air, with a couple fx here and there

like this, for example

[lapis glen]

I am going to take the pictures for a thesis I am writing so I dont need highres shots and I also can not add effects etc.

But thanks.

[hard light]

be careful with bullshots though; Steam have implemented new policy changes that mean that if people decide your materials are not representative of the gameplay experience, it could well get pulled.

[wicked oak]

its more about guidelines

all screenshots on all games are prettyed up

only the most obvious ones like prerendered cinematic/concepts will get anything

[hard light]

they've made their stance pretty clear and used their own stuff as an example

they do include bullshots in their 'unacceptable' media

they used No Man's Sky's screenshots as an example too

[cobalt relic]

@hard light That seems strange, since NMS used real screenshots of rare gameplay conditions

[hard light]

no, they were not real screenshots, just 'in engine' bullshots that were touched up

which is no longer considered acceptable

(it is not representative of the game experience)

[cobalt relic]

Having played the game I beg to differ

But well

The key is how much of your screenshot is bullshit, and how close to the game it is

If it's super hard to do an actual screenshot and you re-do a rare effect in photoshop, it's not misleading

[wicked oak]

if in-engine shots are banned every single game in steam gets banned

its also not a ban

they "reccomend it"

so they arent really going to investigate at all

[cobalt relic]

I think what Steam really said was, don't use concept art, precomputed CGI in the screenshot sections

Which is why I don't believe they specifically talked about NMS, which imho was pretty representative of the actual game, provided you played more than a few hours and upgraded your ships for the nice planets

Still misleading, but arguably real gameplay.

[lapis glen]

If you have to pretty it up it might not be ready. I dont see what you gain by misleading your clients.

[wicked oak]

its a VR game

you cant do a screenshot

becouse it WILL look bad

with its Fov and distortion and that kind of thing

http://store.steampowered.com/app/436320/

every single screenshot is a bullshot

all of them

[cobalt relic]

Like I said it really depends on how representative of the game it is.

[wicked oak]

somthing like this is very similar to the bullshots i have

they did not capture that from direct gameplay

mostly becouse gameplay doesnt have that FOV, or that resolution

http://store.steampowered.com/app/380220/

in hover junkers, every single screenshot is "third person"

for a VR game

so even more different than raw data ones

[clever sky]

Vblanco makes good compelling points 😛

[wicked oak]

on a monitor game you can do the screenshot more easily

you cant do that in vr

[cobalt relic]

Doing third-person videos / screenshots of FPS gameplay is super common, btw

Hiding HUD on videos of actual gameplay is also common

[wicked oak]

becouse it will look like that

from VRMultigames

being a free game i gave to the people, i took little to no care on the scrennshots

that one is a screen capture

hence the black bars

[clever sky]

So how do you guys do bullshots in VR? Make a new bullshot pawn? 😛

[wicked oak]

using a cinematic

[clever sky]

So you can take proper 2D screenshots?

[wicked oak]

and doing a high res capture

[clever sky]

Ah yeah

[wicked oak]

thats exactly how my bullshot above was made

[clever sky]

Just grab the assets and straight up pose them

[wicked oak]

it lets me do stuff like a 4k x 4k pixels square photo

for a billboard

[clever sky]

How about videos?

Straight capture?

Unreal can't do green screen yet can it?

[wicked oak]

this is how it ended up looking

for the billboard on the booth

[clever sky]

I'd wanna do that to sell my game 😛

[wicked oak]

really good looking

the bright spot was due to light reflection

for a trailer ill use the recording feature

then make it prettier

and high res

[clever sky]

Oh... unreal recording feature

then play it back at a higher res. Can you move the camera with that tool after the fact? Should be able to right? That's the whole point.

[wicked oak]

prtty sure you can edit it in Sequencer after recording

wich is what i plan to do

[mighty carbon]

https://twitter.com/roto_vr

apparently works with Gear VR too

http://www.rotovr.com/

that's better

[wicked oak]

im looking for a tester today

for COOP mode on DWVR

who is able to play today?

[clever sky]

Wanna go now?

[wicked oak]

Vive should work, but its Touch what works well

[clever sky]

Assuming the copy you sent me is up to date 😛

[hard light]

for VR capture, we created a new mirror mode for the PC

works perfectly

[clever sky]

should be right? It's on steam

[wicked oak]

the copy is being uploaded right now

[clever sky]

Oh well. It'll probably take a bit for it to get pushed to my end then.

And by that point, I'll be asleep!

[wicked oak]

you need a DWVR key

do you have one from other time?

[clever sky]

Yeah

Still on my account

[wicked oak]

good

should be in ~30 mins

beetween my upload and steam updating it

after that, ill give a bit more buffer so you can play a singleplayer round or similar

there are a few improvements

where are you from @clever sky

as im going to host it on my pc at Spain

[clever sky]

Australia

[wicked oak]

damn

[clever sky]

Yeah, won't be great!

[wicked oak]

gonna be a "worst case scenario" test then

[clever sky]

haha. Indeed. It's a big part of the reason I'm not at all interested in making multiplayer games 😛

[mighty carbon]

no social aspect without online 😃

I guess some sort of async online multiplayer would be a solution

[clever sky]

Tried Soulkeeper alpha demo.

They've done on good job on the graphics...

But crappy VR interaction mechanics all over the place D:

It feels like the wild west of VR interaction mechanics. Few developers know and care to make things feel right.

But a lot don't.

I mean, even epic are a bit guilty here.

If you're going to give us hands, orientate them relative to our real hands.

Don't give us hands on sticks.

[wicked oak]

but in my game you toss fireballs and slash sksletons with a sword

god i have to send alpha builds to vr sites

[clever sky]

Yeah man.

Gotta tap into that marketing network.

They're excited to see new things done well.

[wicked oak]

honestly, MP version is working better than i expected

FAR better than i expected

[clever sky]

Niceee

Still downloading for me though.

40 mins left on estimate

It's the fact that it hasn't properly propagated across to DL servers here more than anything.

[wicked oak]

ima do some hotfixes then upload again

[clever sky]

Haha... well in that case, I got no hope of playing tonight 😛

Go for it. Hopefully we can try next time 😃

[wicked oak]

yeah

[silver brook]

Anyone know why as of 4.13 Vive controller buttons are not working?

I can't get events for any button except face button 1

[granite jacinth]

@silver brook are you using the inputs elsewhere and in turn having them consumed?

[silver brook]

@granite jacinth Nope

Just in one place

But I suppose if two instance are running that could be it?

[granite jacinth]

Are you using a template?

two instances of what?

[silver brook]

Trying to understand what you are asking in terms of having them consumed

Like having anythign running

[granite jacinth]

You should Google it

[silver brook]

that use the controllers?

[granite jacinth]

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Gameplay/HowTo/ActorInput/Blueprints/

[slender reef]

Project Settings > Input

[tawdry dragon]

So excited, one of our clients just started up the first VR project for our company 😄

still a couple of months before we start production, but it's gonna be exciting!

[zenith charm]

Congrats!

[tawdry dragon]

Yeah, now I need to read up on multiplayer inside unreal as we have to do a spectator app for the VR game 😄

[mighty carbon]

How do you find VR clients, @tawdry dragon ?

[tawdry dragon]

Cant take any credit, our talented project manager and sales team pitched it to a long term client, they were excited and starting next year we will have to first write a pitch for the vr experience

and then production will begin later on

but the process is much the same as any other product sale

[mighty carbon]

aye, I see

[tawdry dragon]

but its a first for us, so its gonna be exciting! but may god have mercy on us, because we rely solely on me to do all the Unreal stuff 😄

[mighty carbon]

good luck 😃

[winged shale]

anyone have a method to get tf rid of the black bars on that idiotic 3:4 view projection for the game window?

Ideally I'd like to have an in-game camera that I can position around like in Paintey or any of the other Unity demos and that would show up on screen

[sturdy coral]

@winged shale yeah, let me look, it is just a UV coordinate you can adjust in the plugin

look for SteamVRRender.cpp

then just search for: if (WindowMirrorMode == 1)

RendererModule->DrawRectangle(
RHICmdList,
ViewportWidth / 4, 0,
ViewportWidth / 2, ViewportHeight,
0.1f, 0.2f,
0.3f, 0.6f,
FIntPoint(ViewportWidth, ViewportHeight),
FIntPoint(1, 1),
*VertexShader,
EDRF_Default);

tweak these numbers, it is essentially the crop factor:

            0.1f, 0.2f,
            0.3f, 0.6f,

You can mess around with the aspect ratio and stuff and get something like raw data

at the near-square aspect ratio you will never get a good wide field of view shot because of the lens masking, but if you make it more of a 16:9 you can better than the default.

[nova wave]

@dry fjord so you started working with VR 2 years ago?

[dry fjord]

this isn't an interesting conversation anymore. we're trying to talk tech and you're trying to probe my credibility. it's getting annoying given you can't get off the subject.

I'd like to see you do anything here other than talk waffleloads of nonsense and jargon

[nova wave]

you started doing that first. Regardless, the question is on which knowldege/experience you are basing your conclusion regarding FOV?

[slender reef]

I started working in VR 26 years ago

[dry fjord]

you're 26?

[slender reef]

No, I'm 23

[dry fjord]

what's the IPD on a sperm?

[slender reef]

Two hot wheels cars and a jar of skittles

[nova wave]

"I'd like to see you do anything here other than talk waffleloads of nonsense and jargon" - and it's me who is offensive?

let's talk tech, do you know when first HMD with over 100 degrees FOV was made?

[slender reef]

So there's a lot of things wrong there

Just saying

1. That wasn't offensive

2. That's not tech talk, that's trivia

[dry fjord]

I think that bus has sailed @nova wave

[slender reef]

3. Buses don't sail, they float

A boat doesn't sail either

It has a sail

But it boats

[dry fjord]

you're breaking my anecdote. that bus has to move or it doesn't work.

let's just agree that the bus is no longer viable because ocean

[nova wave]

yeah, this is not going anywhere

[slender reef]

Just one big circlejerk and we're all in on it

[mighty carbon]

@nova wave there is no winning with those 2

[dry fjord]

not with that attitude

[slender reef]

There's no winning against me because I back up my shit with stats and data 😄

[sly chasm]

hnng, my package has been in Fort Worth for the last 2 days 😤

c'mon Fedex, go faster

[clever sky]

Sorry Corstonado, but your saga with VR entertains me 😛

with getting VR to work.

[sly chasm]

I wonder if I should start selling tickets... 🤔

[winged shale]

@sturdy coral holy shit mate this is quite exciting, going to try it out tonight. Thanks! That's a great place to look into drawing a different render target. I have spare GPU time so I think I can pull it off, I'll let you know

[sturdy coral]

@winged shale please let me know if you pull that off. there is code for split screen, or possibly scene capture stuff you could use. I would like to run something mirrored there at 30hz and split up the base pass, lighting pass, and post processing into different time slices so that you never eat too many cycles from your VR render at 90hz

right now all the mixed reality stuff I have done has been done using networking to a second game instance running a spectator

[pearl tangle]

@winged shale and @sturdy coral somebody did a pull request to merge that in but Epic rejected it since they are working on their own mixed reality setup but they still haven't announced anything and ignore all questions about it right now.

[dry fjord]

Can you tell UE which gpu to use?

[winged shale]

Creepy. I'll be open about my progress if any is made.

And @sturdy coral that is unfortunately what I've been thinking about for doing my thang. I just really don't want to replicate a bunch of memory on two instances, I know there is a better way

[pearl tangle]

@dry fjord unreal doesn't support SLI or anything so im going to say unlikely unless you modify it a bit. @winged shale im sure thats why Epic didn't get the other PR in there since they didn't want to be blowing through processing power to get the display a bit wider

[sturdy coral]

@pearl tangle do you have a link to that pull request? I want to take a look at its changes

[winged shale]

I, too would like to see it

[wintry escarp]

which gpu? if you have 2 gpus on 2 different screens just output to the relevant screen

[pearl tangle]

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/2727

[winged shale]

The stupid 3:4 screen makes a little sense when running it for tests, gives larger scope of FOV, but it really should just scope down to a 16:9 portion of it for release

[pearl tangle]

yeah its definitely a huge annoyance to stuff I do as well since we do projection mapping for mixed reality stuff a couple times already and Unity is still beating out unreal with a bunch of things annoyingly

been trying to get a response out of Epic on this 1 for months

[winged shale]

I'll add my force to the battering ram

[pearl tangle]

looks so much better on the TV screens when having friends around for them to at least have a proper full screen view even if it is stuck to the persons head

[winged shale]

I just end up showing the mirror

[pearl tangle]

but at least that PR will get you going with the full screen output

[sturdy coral]

awesome, thanks zoltan

[winged shale]

Only 100-ish lines changed/added, looks easy

[sturdy coral]

Another thing I would like to do is allow smooth first person view without rerendering the scene

[pearl tangle]

yeah should just be able to merge it in to 4.13

[sturdy coral]

the fantastic contraption guys do it in their streaming by rendinger it a second time and lerping the HMD movements to smooth them out

[pearl tangle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7byoJEeYUU these guys still make amazingly beautiful stuff. shame this isn't out for vive

[sturdy coral]

instead what you could do is a perspective-correct reprojection of the mirror view

and lerp it as well

[pearl tangle]

yeah Epic is building in a full end to end system with theirs. So will take the video footage, merge it in with the game footage, and take the depth positioning so you can layer things properly too

then it would just be outputting that final view whether you have camera footage or not onto the other monitor without re-calculating everything again

[winged shale]

Has anyone tried to do a replay file in matinee or something for recording high quality VR things/trailers? That might be a nice interim solution while Epic finally bonks out their own solution

[sturdy coral]

there is a thread on that somewhere

[pearl tangle]

Could do record with sequencer i suppose

[sturdy coral]

I've tried both that and demo recording

[pearl tangle]

I need to do 1 at the moment actually. got a link on that 1 muchcharles?

[sturdy coral]

demo recording is broken with my project, doesn't handle sublevel loading correctly, so wasn't usable

let me look for a link

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/423545/using-sequence-recorder-with-vr.html

[pearl tangle]

I have just been using the xbox screen recorder

either that or been creating flat flythrough videos instead or 360 videos

ah yeah makes sense. I have an on rails skiing game 1 I need to update the video for. I think I can just throw the camera actor on there easier and they can forget about seeing the hands hah

[sturdy coral]

a couple other pull requests you guys might be interested in:

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/2444

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/1864

[pearl tangle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLzhRlTpaRY

[winged shale]

#2444 what the fuck why hasn't that been uptaken

[pearl tangle]

wow May 28th...

[winged shale]

Allar is such a good boy

[pearl tangle]

they must be redoing all of that stuff in their private branch and waiting to do a big press release thing on it once it's better than Unity

the damn Unity VR Editor is also looking really nice too

Allar is incredibly helpful. he sent me over his panoramic capture plugin for free before it got released since I had a tight deadline and was sick of fucking around with the stereo renderer

done 2 projects with it already. quality came out great. Did some scenes at 8k exr. 1.5Tb of files hah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SufFkT-DmM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EqtlEFl31o

[winged shale]

Unity is balls deep in VR, unfortunately Epic is small and a lot of the support customers haven't taken the plunge into VR dev and are unhappy with the amount of time Epic is spending on what they think is a fad

[pearl tangle]

yeah im having a call with their head of Enterprise next week to chat through a few things and try get an indication from them on where a bunch of that stuff is going

[winged shale]

Send them our love, and frustration

There are not many big shit hits yet, unity's prototyping power with C#/js as a language combined with its superior VR feature set beats even the BP systems and broader feature set that Epic's product. It's starting to make me unhappy with the fact that I chose UE4 for engine openness and c++ (for proper library support for what I want) when I really, at the core, need the simple things to be there

[pearl tangle]

hah yeah. I prefer to work with blueprints since it's so quick and easy to prototype things and I can do that way faster than if I do C#, js or C++. depends how people prefer to work. Unreal is easier to get into achieving things because of the blueprint system, but overall it is a more complex engine.

unity has some blueprinting plugins that you can get but im not sure how good they are these days. I remember using playmaker for some stuff years back but its like working more with a level blueprint rather than proper modular components

[winged shale]

Bleh playmaker. I like C# rather well, but Unity runs on top of Mono, which means even some C# native libraries might not work (ack!!!) I am also extra frustrated in context of this: https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/515893/animation-blueprint-with-ik-has-latency-of-1-frame.html

Also I live in U.S. and the election is crazy frustrating too

[pearl tangle]

yeah and you cant update the version of mono within unity so its very difficult trying to do stuff that requires an updated version and last i played with it their mono was customized and way behind the main mono

[winged shale]

Yesssssss

[pearl tangle]

was bloody annoying back in DK2 days getting custom stuff running in there

[winged shale]

But that animBP thread... Just why won't they understand what I'm saying? Was I not being clear?

[pearl tangle]

pretty much as soon as UE4 came out I jumped ship and haven't gone back except to do stuff with Hololens. Another area that Unreal is annoyingly behind in

that seems to be a bit of a common issue I have seen across some different applications with the attachment side of things actually. probably a bigger problem behind the scenes with the frame timings, might be a while before you manage a fix on that

[winged shale]

Same! DK1, had lots of fun with 3 free Unity pro months, but tried to do some ML things and got too frustrated. Jumped ship and haven't looked back. I still prefer UE4 though :)

[pearl tangle]

oh yeah that was it DK1 not even dk2. I remember rigging it up with the leap motion to shoot fireballs out of my hands and shit. before leap motion could get mounted on the headset and before positional tracking

well especially since rift worked natively in the free version of unreal and unity needed the pro version just to be able to do anything with it at the time too was an easy choice to make

[winged shale]

Yup.

I was all, oh, these three months are up... And Pro is more expensive than it's worth...

Unity's profit model doesn't encourage indies

Ffs, I can't even prototype my thing properly before I invest? No thank you

And you see how Unity free helped in neutering Onward

[pearl tangle]

yeah back when unity first moved over to a multi platform engine rather than just Mac their free version and paid version didn't have too much of a difference. then they were trying to use the rift to lure people over to the pro version just for that functionality. the only differecnes before were some different rendering methods and stuff

[winged shale]

Yup, custom shader access

That was what pushed me over the top, when I left it was that I couldn't even write a damn shader and run it with the engine without paying

[pearl tangle]

anybody have any experience debugging performance with the vive when GPU and CPU still seem to have a lot more capacity but getting a shitload of skipped frames?

[sturdy coral]

@pearl tangle you checked steamvr frametiming graph for spikes?

[pearl tangle]

at the moment its a consistent frame drop

but CPU usage sitting very low, GPU usage and memory usage relatively low too

only thing i can see is the gpu temp is sitting mid 70s but that shouldn't be enough for thermal throttling

[sturdy coral]

can you paste a screenshot of your frame timing graph while playing?

[pearl tangle]

sure just gotta get it over from the other machine. running it on the laptop 1 but without the watercooling dock so it should be running more at 970 levels

just running a build on the 4.14 renderer and tweaked some things so will see how that goes too

[sturdy coral]

if you are testing 4.14 try the new 'stat gpu' command, it is sort of like a live gpu profiler

[pearl tangle]

yeah running the built file on a different machine to the 1 im working on. just trying to run this on the laptop for an event so i don't need to lug my mini itx machine with me

so im just using GPUz and task manager to monitor the stats on the machine

I have a bunch of 8k textures in there figured that could be doing it but then it should be chewing up the gpu memory

[sturdy coral]

yeah, try the steamvr frame timing graph because it separates out a lot more stuff than GPUz will, stuff with the compositor, etc. and shows when reprojection is kicking in

[pearl tangle]

yeah its not having a good time with it

and build doesn't want to cook. bitching about missing the defaultengine material now that i enabled the other renderer

[zinc violet]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/11/09/trackmania-turbo-gets-free-vr-update

[sly chasm]

Just making sure, your cant get oculus to send you any products without working on a specific project, right?

[pearl tangle]

they wont give developers stuff unless you are doing a consumer facing app to release on their stores

[clever sky]

Good to know. What do you have to show them?

[pearl tangle]

ok so it was the terrain on there that was killing the mobile machine. Made a static mesh out of it instead and now i can make it rotate around exactly like westworld now hah

show them you have a studio and will make them plenty of money

but their actual support for people is terrible

[clever sky]

Sounds about right!

[pearl tangle]

Westworlded

[clever sky]

That's mighty slick

[wraith sky]

HMD mirror mode doesn't work with Vive?

[hard light]

Mirror modes are not implemented for the Vive

you'll just get a black screen or a crash

[wraith sky]

okay

what about:

[SteamVR.Settings]
WindowMirrorMode=0

So the 0 is either 1 or 2. 1 for a mono view, 2 for stereo view.

?

[hard light]

they're not implemented for the Vive

it doesn't matter where you set the config variable, if it isn't implemented, it won't work

[runic wave]

Hey I just implemented a teleport surface visualization like in "The Lab" anybody interested in something like this?

[hard light]

kinda neat

how did you generate the geometry?

[runic wave]

I'm using the navmesh and generate a procedural mesh from it

so its just plug and play for any environment with a navmesh setup

[hard light]

ah, fair

I would not use the nav mesh for player teleportation, so I would not be interested personally

[runic wave]

still the best option for exploring large areas imo, how would you replace it?

[wicked oak]

neat

i also use the navmesh

but im not doing fancy geo or view on it

[hard light]

we use collision / trace channels

nav mesh is problematic in that you can only really have one

and we use that specifically for AI

which does not necessarily travel where the player does

it's also massive overhead for something which shouldn't have massive overheads

[wraith sky]

@runic wave Why in #virtual-reality ? not in #ue4-general or #lounge ?

will epic send a new version of vive for next grant winners?

[hard light]

dev grant Vives aren't even the current models, why would they send the new ones :p?

(they are Vive Pre's, which are however very similar to the current model, it must be said)

[mighty carbon]

I wonder if Palmer is allowed back online after his nominee won the race

[slender reef]

I dunno Palmer, are you?

[mighty carbon]

I am not Palmer, vaper

[slender reef]

Prove it

[mighty carbon]

go vape yourself

[slender reef]

Rude

[mighty carbon]

Palmer would never do that, you see 😉

[slender reef]

No, he probably would lol

[mighty carbon]

shrugs ... I never followed him closely online, so i don't really know how he was acting with peeps

just would be funny to see him popping back up now and being active again..

[winged shale]

how he was acting with pepes

[mighty carbon]

pepe is a good frog.. I don't get how they mixed that character with all this nonsense.

or toad, whatever pepe is

[winged shale]

Froad

[sullen stirrup]

how exactly did you do that @runic wave

[winged shale]

I think he has videos on it..?

[wicked oak]

i guess he accessed the navmesh, then built a custom mesh component using that geometry, then gave it a material

[winged shale]

I remember watching something about it a few weeks ago

[sullen stirrup]

is generating a mesh component possible even

o

oh well yea, dumb question

[runic wave]

yeah pretty much what vblanco said, generating the outlines was a bit involved though

[sullen stirrup]

can't you change nav mesh's material and set it to visible though

so the engine just crashes

[wicked oak]

for the outlines, did you regenerate another mesh?

with a different material

[sullen stirrup]

how'd you grab nav's geometry @runic wave

[runic wave]

outline is done by parsing the mesh and creating seperate geometry yes

you can access the navmesh geometry using ARecastNavMesh::GetDebugGeometry Adam

[sullen stirrup]

ain't exposed to BPs

😩

anyhow thanks 😛

[clever sky]

@runic wave Liking that navmesh visualization. Would like to see it more. Just wouldn't use it in my own projects - coz I don't need to!

[runic wave]

thanks, might polish it a bit more and release it, np Adam

[clever sky]

I'm pretty sure I've seen that sorta thing on the forums already tho 😛 But there'll always be people that just want a ready to go plug and play solution.

[runic wave]

could you point me to it?

[clever sky]

I'll see if I can find it

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?111074-VR-Content-Examples&highlight=navmesh

https://youtu.be/F--uCN9mkZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhuxRm6QMD4

[runic wave]

neat thx

[normal thorn]

I'm having performance issues, I think linked to Allow asynchronous reprojection and Allow interleaved reprojection. If I turn them off I get in stat unit reading generally 11ms, but it jumps up to as much as 22ms. If I gpu capture that frame roughtly I get just over 9ms. Whenever I capture I get around 9ms. Turning off Reprojection I get also bad FPS, juddereing of moving assets, still 9ms. Ever since that update with SteamVR I get bad performance on moving objects. So frustrating b/c all stats say I'm ok. but clearly objects judder/studder in their movement.

why do I think its that since I get bad fps at times with both on and off? Its different bad. Juddering of objects or juddering of headset but GPU catpure is under 10ms

CPU is at 4ms

I don't expect anyone to have an answer just frustrated. I had buttery smooth movement, and for a while now its studdered and I can't fix it. Can't find a slow down in rendering anywhere. and I swear it was smooth before... I know its most likely a user issue. But I can't find where.

[clever sky]

@normal thorn I'd cry about the same thing, but I not good with words.

My frame rate sucks. Oh well.

[normal thorn]

hah, yeah

game development is frustrating. VR is frustrating. Add them together and I'm surpised its... frustrating

[clever sky]

But there's so much awesome when it comes together.

What kinda thing you working on in VR?

[normal thorn]

Its a RC airplane game mised with a physics puzzle game

sort of RC airplanes meets Angry Birds

[clever sky]

Oh is it already out?

[normal thorn]

no its close to be early access

showed it at Steam Dev Days to a few guys at Valve they said release it now

[clever sky]

Ah. So not the airplane toy heroes thingmajig

[normal thorn]

But I can't it has to be more ready

[clever sky]

Why'd they say release it now? They think it looks good enough

[normal thorn]

Airplane's drop bombs on physics puzzles

yeah its fun

[clever sky]

Nice.

[normal thorn]

but on min spec it will drop frames

and I have some game mechanics like score to get working

[clever sky]

Dammit where's ASW to sort this shit out? 😛

Us game devs are only humans!

Especially VR devs. So many solo/small teams around.

[normal thorn]

4.13 doesn't support more than 1 widgets working. so I can have a menu but not other widgets AND a menu

[clever sky]

Doesn't it?

[normal thorn]

no

[clever sky]

... but I'm using 2 widgets on my actor.

At once.

[normal thorn]

I want to show how many bombs you have with a widget but it will make the menu stop responding

even if they are never visible at the same time

I donno

if I add another my menu stops responding

on the VR pawn

do you have them just in a level?

[clever sky]

I think you might need to set to active then set to not active.

To turn them off.

[normal thorn]

hmm yeah maybe

[clever sky]

Initially.

That was my work around.

[normal thorn]

I'm just learning UMG, never did any of that before

thanks that might help a ton

[clever sky]

Fair call. Yeah, VR UMG not too bad actually.

You don't have to worry about resizing windows.

[normal thorn]

yeah that part is actually confusing for me

[clever sky]

So I don't bother with any of the resizing boxes. I just drag and drop components

Maybe not best practice.

But easy enough for me!

[normal thorn]

yeah thats working pretty well

but its like I don't know WHY exactly

lol

why I get spacing in some configurations and not others

meaning space between things

[clever sky]

Ah.

[normal thorn]

why it scales images in weird ways

[clever sky]

Oh yeah.

I think I had to scale my image size (widget setting) up to 1920 x 1080 for a 1280 x 720 resolution UMG.

Weird as hell, but... shrug if it works it works.

[normal thorn]

I made a shield like a freeway sign and it make it almost look like a box

[clever sky]

Hmmm. As an image on a UMG?

[normal thorn]

yeah but I just diteched it and moved on

couldn't get it to scale right so can't waste more time on that

[clever sky]

Fair call. I haven't done images on UMG yet.

Because I've decided to just go with a flat and usable style 😛

[normal thorn]

I got stars working as images, they are square so maybe that helped

[clever sky]

Yay for not releasing an actual game!

[normal thorn]

hahah

well I'm pushing for next 2 weeks

or sooner

[clever sky]

Doing a locomotion system and putting together a demo of it.

[normal thorn]

nice

do you have it on the forums?

[clever sky]

Yeah... I'd like to think I've cracked it.

Nope. Haven't uploaded it anywhere yet.

I'd like to think I've cracked it - but the public release of the demo will have to be the litmus test.

It's got climbing in there though.

[normal thorn]

oh nice

[clever sky]

Works really well together. I can get past most obstacles. And get on the ground and go prone and crawl around.

[normal thorn]

are you going to put it on the marketplace ?

[clever sky]

Don't think I can? It requires a plugin.

[normal thorn]

ah the VR plugin thing?

[clever sky]

C++ plugin. Not mine, but freely available for use under MIT license.

[normal thorn]

the one with the VR template from Mitch?

[clever sky]

Yeah. It deals with the whole moving the collision capsule with camera

Not mitch. The other guy. Mordentral.

Unless that is mitch?

[normal thorn]

I don't think so

[clever sky]

Yeah. Mordentral looks after the VRExpansionPlugin.

[normal thorn]

but yeah I didn't use that template b/c of the plugin

[clever sky]

Probably the closest equivalent to VRTK we have for Unreal.

Just not as widely publicized.

[normal thorn]

I don't like adding them unless its really necessary. Feels like it dirtys the project

[clever sky]

Yeah, I get that.

[normal thorn]

well when you can't test new versions b/c the plugin fails

[clever sky]

On the other hand, it gives me critical functionality like actually been able to use basic movement calls.

[normal thorn]

yeah if only it was easier to move them between engine versions

not wait for someone to recompile

[clever sky]

Yeah. I haven't upgraded to 4.14 because of that.

I mean... I could probably recompile it...

if I knew what I was doing 😛

But that's why I'm working with UE! Because I'm a designer first and a programmer a very distant second!

[normal thorn]

yeah you could learn to do it. You can probably learn everything! but you also have to focus on what you're doing. haha

meaning yeah I might be able to also do music but I can't do everything

coding... yeah a little

[clever sky]

Exactly. Only got so many hours in a day.

[normal thorn]

I also worry if something goes wrong its harder for someone else to trouble shoot if the plugin is causing something

[clever sky]

True that.

All prices to pay for using free resources!

[normal thorn]

I think you mean "free"

[clever sky]

Well. As free as such a resource can be 😛

Because paying for it doesn't obviate the issues described!

[normal thorn]

true

[spring pond]

Anyone dealt much with the haptics system? It looks like the frequency is annoyingly normalized per device, does that mean that waveform haptics also have to have a normalized output?

[clever sky]

@spring pond I've only dealt with Vive controller haptics through the BPMotionController->RumbleController function.

Small motors don't work.

Only large motors work.

[spring pond]

Yeah, i notice that with the force feedback effects

Now that Vive haptic support is fixed I'm switching our FF over since the touch only supports haptics

[clever sky]

And it only goes down to 0.03 intensity before it loses effect

[mighty carbon]

http://www.androidcentral.com/google-reveals-hardware-requirements-daydream-vr

[clever sky]

I've been using it very coarsely though.

[spring pond]

whats annoying is with the raw SDK for Oculus you can do fun things like recording the sound of rubbing against a surface or hitting a table, then play that back as a haptic. Not ideal, but a neat starting point, but if everything is normalized you'd have to do a bunch of post processing + UE doesn't seem to support float .wav

[clever sky]

@spring pond That's pretty cool.

But yeah, you'd probably have to hand edit float curve tracks

[spring pond]

except you can't import float into UE, so it doesn't even matter. Maybe I'll make a thread on the forums about it

[clever sky]

Fair call. Good luck!

[mighty carbon]

@wintry escarp you might want to glance at that article

[clever sky]

I wanna try some awesome haptics. Because there's a dearth of haptics in Vive stuff.

In fact, my own stuff is the best haptics experience I've seen. And I'm not going to claim that it's good.

[spring pond]

yeah, we really added ours in late, which wasn't intentional

I feel like it is an extremely important and novel piece of the puzzle in VR

[clever sky]

Oh yeah. You gotta tie all the senses together.

[spring pond]

right now I'm just worried about getting touch and vive at parity, but I plan to spend some time in the coming months on it

[clever sky]

That's literally how we learn from our world. Multi-sensory associativity.

Use every bit of sensory impact we can to fill in the stuff that we can't have yet in VR.

[spring pond]

There is litterally zero documentation on the haptics in the docs

[clever sky]

Yeah... I honestly thought it was just an intensity/duration thing.

'so... that's haptics? Yeah, I can work with that.'

[spring pond]

It's two curves: freq and amplitude, both over time as I'd expect

but if the values are normalized or not, how to figure out the ranges of each device if so, what is expected of waveform input, etc are my questions

[clever sky]

Are vive and touch haptics different?

[spring pond]

I'll look through the source code and hunt down the Epic staff member

[clever sky]

Can't you map range the input?

to normalize it

[spring pond]

i think it is normalized, which isn't ideal

i'd rather just give it the raw hz

if its normalized what feels like a deep rumble on one controller could be a light buzz on another if the freq ranges of the devices are different, it doesn't make sense

[clever sky]

Ah.

So you'd have to do a switch on controller function

But you don't want to do that I guess?

switch on headset at least. Assume the motion controllers are tied to the headsets (which they are)

[wicked oak]

you can access the raw oculus sdk and do haptics directly

keep in mind Epic has done it normalized so its "simple" to make it run in different hardware

[severe river]

is there a way to preload maps on editor load? typically I have to enter the editor and then right click 5 maps to preload them. when i preload them I can teleport to a different map in a couple seconds rather than doing the load on teleport

so when youre in VR and you go to the next level it is instantaneous

[mighty carbon]

streaming is your friend

[quartz pewter]

has anyone had any issues with sound playing on the vive

trying to test my game in editor and no sounds work

spatialised or not

in selected viewport it works fine

[severe river]

@mighty carbon we are using streaming, the problem is actually loading the stream

i want it all loaded up front

[quartz pewter]

@severe river you can load the stream level through BPs and not set it to display once loaded

[severe river]

what we have set up is the game loads up to training, then from training it goes to an apartment and the BP will fire to load the apt.the issue is when there is no preload the level stream (the apartment map) it can take up to 5 minutes to load in game. so when im in dev mode I right click the apartment map and it will load all the assets, then when i hop into vr and do a run the teleports are super quick.

[quartz pewter]

when the game starts use the load stream level bp node

there's a tick box on it for show level when loaded or something similar

uncheck it, then the level will load in in the background and be ready when you need it

[severe river]

okay will give that a shot, thanks for the help!

[quartz pewter]

no worries

has anyone had any issues with sound in vr?

cant hear sound in vr preview or vr mode when packaged on rift or vive

playing in selected viewport sound plays fine

this is 2d and 3d sound

[mighty carbon]

There is no HRTF spatialization in UE4

I use FMOD for UE4 for Gear VR

so, I have sound in PIE and on the device

I am pretty sure you'd want to use FMOD or Wwise to have 3D sound in Vive

[vocal maple]

In shooter type games, how do you guys go about making a body for the player?

Hard bodies probably cause derealization for the player because only the hands are tracked and looking at yourself being somebody else + being static or performing animations that you didn't do must be really weird and bad for immersion

[mighty carbon]

full body IK

(which is probably an overkill at this stage of VR)

plus it will never match real-life body anyway

[abstract gale]

@quartz pewter is it through the vive head phones you cant hear sound when running in VR? have u tried to see if u still get PC sound and make sure device is targeting PC sound card?

[quartz pewter]

3d sound does work, ive used it before on both rift and vive

my issue is that in vr mode no sound plays at all

@abstract gale yeah sound works on the vive (other games, steam)

[abstract gale]

no sound plays from even the PC?

[quartz pewter]

and when i play in selected viewport sound comes through vive headphones

[abstract gale]

when u run VR mode does the device get switched over to VIVE ? for sound?