multiplayer

[kindred widget]

Aimbots.

[potent cradle]

There's always a ban button for those people

Rust is overrun by cheating, people still play

[bitter oriole]

Most cheats occur because cheating is a fact if life in multiplayer games

[potent cradle]

Yeah 😦

[rich ridge]

Yes

[bitter oriole]

If the cheat can be solved by game code, that's anticheat 101

"don't be dumb"

Most of the time it can't

[potent cradle]

The client always lies

[bitter oriole]

For shooter/action type games, I mean - of course your turn-based tactical game can have strong anticheat

[rich ridge]

I didn't mean only game code.. end to end knowledge of framework is also needed...
Like not doing server side simulation of projectiles

[bitter oriole]

This is still very very obvious stuff

[rich ridge]

I just gave an example

[potent cradle]

I think Stranger's point is that there's just a whole class of client-side stuff that you can't prevent with your game code

[bitter oriole]

My point is that most commercial cheating is purely client side and impossible to prevent

Aimbots, triggers, wallhacks, etc

[rich ridge]

Your point is right @bitter oriole

So why studios still use anticheat framewrok

When they know they can't prevent cheating

[chrome bay]

There's two sides to it

[kindred widget]

@potent cradle While the cheating aspect may remain, you still need to have main servers where players can play at least mostly securely. At least you know that you can get away with the same thing as the other guy. Meanwhile in Listenserver setups, you're at the host's mercy. And having community servers doesn't stop that cost necessity. You still need your own servers up and going to attract players before they make communities. All that does is ease your problem after the fact.

[chrome bay]

There's the game/server-code side where you try to prevent obvious spoofs and hacks

Then there's the client-side where you run some kind of anti-cheat agent that attempts to detect other software that allows them to cheat.

[bitter oriole]

To make it more costly for cheat makers and mitigate how long people can cheat before they're banned and start over

[potent cradle]

Yeah, but the cost of hosting a few dedicated servers isn't that high. As demonstrated by the wealth of community owned servers in most games (in my neck of the woods).

[chrome bay]

That's galaxy-brain sort of stuff, way outside my understanding - but client-side cheats are the job of programs like EAC and the like.

[rich ridge]

Is it possible that the developer itself is the hacker?

I mean why not

[bitter oriole]

Anyway, I keep advising people to plan their game for a population of 10 online players

[kindred widget]

@rich ridge THIS ISN'T WINDWARD

[potent cradle]

@kindred widget
https://scalacube.com/hosting/server/ark

44$/month for 100 slots

As an example

And I bet you can host for cheaper with "real" hosting companies, vs a "game specific" one like this

[bitter oriole]

That's insanely expensive even for dedicated servers, lmao

[potent cradle]

Oh for sure

But I mean, they market to gamers with no server knowledge

Premium cost

[potent cradle]

^ Hence

I haven't tested at scale yet, but Vultr seemed to handle Unreal fine when I gave it a go

[rich ridge]

Does anyone know whether UE4 UDP is going to change or replaced in UE5?

[chrome bay]

Highly unlikely tbh

UE5 is going to be UE 4.27 essentially

Probably with a handful of unannounced stuff we haven't seen yet

Epic are being quite smart by trialing a lot of the big stuff before they go ham with a full UE5 release

[bitter oriole]

What would need replacement anyway

[rich ridge]

Because UDP is not optimised for mobile networks. And there are a lot of new and advanced protocols.

[rich ridge]

I hoping to see quic protocol

[bitter oriole]

I'm skeptical Epic cares a lot about mobile tech right now

[chrome bay]

"If it ain't broke" and all that

[bitter oriole]

To be honest

[chrome bay]

Yeah that too

[potent cradle]

You think there's more in the works? I was already impressed with what was announced.
I mean, I bet they're always working on new stuff, but the lineup seemed pretty good already.

[bitter oriole]

I mean Epic's only game product is banned from both platforms ?

[rich ridge]

Quic protocol automatically detects network switch from wifi to cellular and vice versa, and the connection is not terminated.

[bitter oriole]

I mean yeah but consider this : Unreal isn't investing a lot on mobile tech

[chrome bay]

@potent cradle Purely speculating but I bet they still have a few tricks up their sleeve, maybe nothing on the scale of Nanite etc... but there is so much stuff in the works already it wouldn't surprise me if there is some lower-hanging fruit kind of gems in there

The Quartz audio stuff seems to have been snuck in to 4.26 without anyone really noticing..

[rich ridge]

I mean quic is not exclusive to mobile. It can be used on consoles, PC or Mac or Linux.. it's just like it has more features for mobile

[chrome bay]

anyway.. OT

[bitter oriole]

There's no point on PC or console

[potent cradle]

Considering I'm going: what? That's accurate.
Googling....

[kindred widget]

@potent cradle You need at least 2 sales per month to host that at near cost. But assuming that you get those 100 people and you have a 30$ game. That's $3,000. Minus steam, minus publisher, actually lets just leave the publisher out for a moment. So after steam you're at 2270. After taxes, and paying for that server. You could keep it up for 3 years, if you don't pay yourself or your employees anything.

[chrome bay]

Bleh just support listen servers and add AI 😄 At least the few who do invest in your game will still be able to play it when it's abandoned...

[potent cradle]

Seems fine, no?

[bitter oriole]

Assuming that you get those 100 people and you have a 30$ game. That's $3,000
You have $1,500

Sorry to break it to you

That's before publishing

That's before everything really, just VAT and Steam

[kindred widget]

That was my last figure after tax and Steam.

1560ish or something.

Divide by 44, and you're at 36 months of hosting.

[potent cradle]

No tax until profit 🥳

[chrome bay]

You gotta claim that back though, still have to pay it upfront

Then you gotta pay an accountant to do it all for you 😄

[kindred widget]

You can use it to buy one of your work slaves a christmas present.

[chrome bay]

(Assuming we're talking UK rules anyway)

[potent cradle]

I'm not sure it works that way here 🤔

But I get your point, the argument was creative accounting anyway. You'd have paid for the costs to justify the tax break already, so it's not like you didn't pay to begin with 😄

[kindred widget]

You can probably write off the server cost in the States. I don't remember anymore. Been in EU too long.

[chrome bay]

At every step of the way somebody other than you is getting paid essentially

[bitter oriole]

So you got 100 sales of your $30 (very expensive) game and made $1500. Assuming $20 per month, that's still a full third of your entire revenue stream

[potent cradle]

Anywhere I think, can't see that any other way. It's a business cost.

[bitter oriole]

Assuming a more realistic $15, the calculation becomes intenable

Hell, assuming all your sales come from Steam sales, as they will, make it intenable

[chrome bay]

It's no coincidence we always arrive at monetary calculations in #multiplayer 😄

[bitter oriole]

If you do the math for 100 copies of a $20 game sold on average at $15, that's $750, and hosting is now 2/3 of your entire revenue

[potent cradle]

I mean, if we only sell 100 copies, then yeah, it becomes problematic

But as soon as it scales and you get a few hundred

Most survival games only have a few official dedicated servers

[kindred widget]

But the necessities don't stop scaling either.

[potent cradle]

Beyond that, community server start popping up

[agile lotus]

What's a good way to send player skin information to players who are joining

[potent cradle]

Repnotify in playerstate

[agile lotus]

Ty 🙏

[bitter oriole]

I would be very very annoyed if I bought a game and could only play on community servers

I know the survival games community is used to absolutely horrible games

But still

[potent cradle]

Nah, not only being able to play on community servers

There's often still official servers, even with free slots

But at some point the thing grows large enough that people host their own servers

It's a huge thing for survival games

At which point the load is spread

And the economics make more sense

(Depending on the game, I even avoid official)

[kindred widget]

The only way that most survival games really make it, is if they support listenserver and singleplayer play as well. Because then people also want to play with friends, and you can get off free if they play listenserver or host their own dedicated servers. And that can cover your costs for your own servers.

[potent cradle]

That just hasn't been the case in my experience

Rust, Beasts of Bermuda, TheIsle, Path of Titans

Dedicated servers, no listen server support that I know of

"Huge" games, and most of those are small indie teams

I think maybe here we need to acknowledge the context of the (sub)genre

I bet there's games that you have experience with that lead you to say that, and prove me wrong

Context specific.

For some formulas, it just really works great

@chrome bay, how about HLL?

Seems to be the same scenario

[chrome bay]

Gears 3 - personally I've been playing loads of that lately, and it's all listen servers now

HLL is dedicated only but wasn't my decision

But also... 100 players

[potent cradle]

😄

[chrome bay]

no residential internet is going to be able to support that anyway

[potent cradle]

Seems to work fine though
(Though I'm sure you did a lot to support that on a technical level, not discounting that)

[chrome bay]

Hey we got 100 players working before Fortnite came out so I'll take that 😄

If you have a more sensibly scoped game though, having a PvE mode that works on listen servers may not be a bad idea.

Probably a better idea than PvP tbh.. if you discount the extra enormous development cost of AI

[potent cradle]

Or just mixing them

I've decided not to go down the PvP only route, and to supplement it with PvE

They compliment each other quite well, and it frees you of the necessity to have high player counts

[chrome bay]

That's what I'd like to do tbh. Just can't ignore that huge AI development cost

[potent cradle]

I'd agree with that, yes

Still feels doable though, especially if you start with relatively simple AI and work your way up

Question is, at what point is it sophisticated enough to become adequately engaging

I can imagine it's even harder for a game like HLL

All the strategy and tactics going on. Tricky to make it not feel like a dumb meatpuppet running across the battlefield soaking up bullets 😛

[chrome bay]

If they want to add AI to HLL I'm gonna quit 😄

[kindred widget]

@potent cradle Hmm. I'd be very inclined to give you TheIsle. I can't find anything on them except just good stats. They have no other affiliations that helped them although they do tick my personal pet peeve of being in early access for half a decade.

Path Of Titans I can't find any real data on since it's not steam related and there's not a lot of data floating around, but it does look good. Path of titan's developers are also known for a popular ARMA3 mod though which helps their visibility. Still would be inclined to give that one to you.

Not really feeling Beasts Of Bermuda. Not sure about other platforms at least, but their PC is a small crowd. Admittedly they do have a decent amount of concurrent players. Their still active GoFundMe account definitely has helped their server upkeep cost at $16,000

Rust I'm definitely not willing to give. First off it owes a lot of it's success to the fact that it has a popular following from Garry's Mod. It had capital from that to start up. The development team size is 20 people. It's also not pure Online. It allows non Online Coop if their Steam is to be believed.

[potent cradle]

2/4, I'll take those odds! 😄

Rust I'm definitely not willing to give. First off it owes a lot of it's success to the fact that it has a popular following from Garry's Mod. It had capital from that to start up. The development team size is 20 people. It's also not pure Online. It allows non Online Coop if their Steam is to be believed.
Specifically for the argument of server cost though: it seems to prove my point.

There's tons of community servers

Could even argue that having a plethora of community servers is an asset to the game.

Which is generally true for survival games. Different rulesets, slight mods to gameplay, etc.

Not really feeling Beasts Of Bermuda. Not sure about other platforms at least, but their PC is a small crowd. Admittedly they do have a decent amount of concurrent players. Their still active GoFundMe account definitely has helped their server upkeep cost at $16,000
I don't play it myself, but it has a vibrant community, successful game.

[kindred widget]

Definitely. I wouldn't argue that at all about community servers. I play ARK a lot. But the tone of the conversation was about how you can be successful as a smaller team using dedicated servers. Rust already had a large following from it's developer's previous success, and likely had plenty of money to support it based on it's development team size.

[potent cradle]

But the argument is based around economics of dedicated servers, right? If you don't manage to grow past the need for 1-2 official dedicated servers, then yes, it's problematic. But as soon as that happens and the community starts joining in, the economics change.

I think the question then becomes: can you manage to reach that point?

[kindred widget]

Which is very hard to do without extra money as a very small team.

[potent cradle]

That I am inclined to give you, yes.

But considering there's quite a few survival games that have made it, it does seem within the realm of possibility.

I don't think I'd be making the same argument for twitch shooters though

[kindred widget]

If we were talking pure dedicated, with no other game modes like single or coop, and no other previous background to rely on or capital to support more than a could servers for half a year, I'd be iffy. Too much cost requirement of servers, business, personal living needed to develop said game, etc vs hoping your game becomes the next Valheim.

Do what ARK, or Rust did with singleplayers, or Coop, mods, you foster a community. They take a lot of your costs away. Ark also got away with being able to add in a few extra items and make a new map and make a stupid amount of money from DLCs.

[potent cradle]

Does Rust have any real amount of players playing Coop/SP? I didn't even know it was really a thing

[potent cradle]

This is a real risk, I agree

[kindred widget]

Dunno, there's not really any data on it. I presume some people do at least.

You won't see streamers or Youtubers doing it. Boring for viewers, and there's no data on how many people are playing it single vs online.

[potent cradle]

True 😄

[kindred widget]

Quick sanity check. HISMC doesn't automatically replicate the used StaticMesh in it, does it?

[sturdy root]

I have some questions about actor replication if anybody knows the answer.

1. Is the first replication of a created actor ordered? ie, will an reliable rpc sent regarding the same actor always arrive after all the fields have gotten their initial values?

2. When joining a session, is there some way for a client to know that all created actors have been replicated to it and that the state is robust?

[kindred widget]

I don't believe so. That feels more like custom work area of making certain actors register with GameState or something, and firing an event off when all of them exist on the client.

[sturdy root]

for #2?

[kindred widget]

Ah. missed one. Derp. Yeah that was for 2. For one, it's not promised. In fact I've noticed that RPCs sent directly after an actor's creation often arrive before the actor finishes replicating and spawning on the client. For anything like that, you're usually best off relying on a RepNotify.

Or maybe they don't arrive and get dropped, more likely. Uncertain. Either way they don't run on the client.

[sturdy root]

😫

that's... crazy. (coming from other engines)

[kindred widget]

It's likely just the way it's designed. Server sends RPC through the actor. RPC arrives on client, Client looks for said actor, actor does not exist yet, RPC gets tossed. Fair question on the reliable part though... Curious.

[sturdy root]

I'm still trying to get to terms with that RPCs can only get sent to actors, but it seems, everything is an actor in unreal, even things that don't have a physical representation in the world, so maybe that's fine.

Been using stingray before and it gives a ton more guarantees, so it feels quite scary since networking easily can get messy and race condition-y.

like, we wouldn't even run the gameplay code until the event is fired that all state is in sync, feels like the wild west to start running any gameplay updated until we at least have a robust state.

...and all ordered RPCs would be ordered even among each other, not depending on actors it got sent to. Also ordered with creation and destruction of objects, so you knew if you've created an object on the server you were free to send RPCs about it and know they will arrive.

so... trying to get to terms with with these basically no guarantees for anything.

[chrome bay]

Just gotta code around it. It's pretty easy tbh once you get the hang of it

The only ordering that's guaranteed of any kind, is reliable RPC's on the same actor. Everything else is non-deterministic.

Most important thing is using variables for stateful changes, and RPC's for events only.

If you start using RPC's to control persistent state, then you will end up with a mess

The other important concept is relevancy

[kindred widget]

Oh FFS. Meshes are replicated by default. That's what was confusing me. I thought I actually replicated the mesh myself but I was going back over my own code and couldn't find it. ReplicatedUsing=OnRep_StaticMesh. Epic ahead of me again. I need to get out of my own way.

Aaaand.. it's not virtual.

Why is it not virtual?

So... There's absolutely no way to like.. override a non virtual function is there?

I know there's not. But I don't know why this OnREP isn't virtual. :/

[chrome bay]

What you could do to get around it

Subclass UStaticMeshComponent, and use DISABLE_REPLICATED_PROPERTY or whatever it's called

Then add your own property and replicate that instead

Might need to use DISABLE_REPLICATED_PRIVATE_PROPERTY I suspect, but it should work

[kindred widget]

Do you know what these things are?

PRAGMA_DISABLE_DEPRECATION_WARNINGS

Why bother disabling deprecation warnings inside of the function, why not just move the deprecation to the other side of it.

[chrome bay]

Ah maybe it's old code, I think the StaticMesh property wasn't fully private at one point

Yeah must be, this is further down:

    StaticMesh = NewMesh;
    PRAGMA_ENABLE_DEPRECATION_WARNINGS```

I think it was public in the past

[kindred widget]

After having been looking through a lot of Epic's code lately.. I'm reading through this file like it's written for something else entirely. Syntactical differences, style, everything feels off. :/

[chrome bay]

tbh the deeper you go you find that Epic has a coding standard they don't seem to enforce particularly strongly

But I guess that's expected from a 25+ year old codebase tbh

[kindred widget]

Like putting virtual on all OnRep functions. :/

On a side note. I went looking for DISABLE_REPLICATED_PROPERTY.

Someone mentioned that it cannot be used on private variables?

Ah. Cause this apparently exists. DISABLE_REPLICATED_PRIVATE_PROPERTY

Still going to go look up and see if that's currently documented. I feel like that needs bug reported.

[chrome bay]

Yeah DISABLE_REPLICATED_PRIVATE_PROPERTY is for private properties and looks them up via property name instead

Thanks to reflection

I don't know why they don't just replace DISABLE_REPLICATED_PROPERTY with the code of DISABLE_REPLICATED_PRIVATE_PROPERTY and have it work everywhere tbh, but maybe it conveys intent more

[kindred widget]

No mention of it in bug reports. Gonna write that up. Will work around it, but it's annooooying.

Also speaking of bugs. The icon in the bug search page is missing. Not sure if that's a bad joke or not.

[sturdy root]

alright, thanks for the tips!

[grizzled stirrup]

If latency using Steam Sockets is more than 10x higher than without it enabled, is using the orignal non sockets Steam network (the one that is there by default) still recommended?

125+ ping for PCs in the same room is just way too high but I'm not sure if the encryption and relay that sockets provides is considered an essential feature nowadays with streamers

I'm curious, does the default Steam networking setup (without the steam sockets plugin enabled) not function properly for a MP game or would this be for a specific type of game?

[golden nest]

Can someone help me? I can read PlayerState values clientside

In my WB i´m trying to fill a scrollbox whit all connected players, but when i pass the PlayerStates from GameMode to the WB it keeps reading null

[kindred widget]

@golden nest Why are you even passing these through? A client doesn't need to care about what is on the server. They need to care about what is on the client. You should only be getting the playerstates from the local client's GameState.

[golden nest]

But i need all player states

so i get it from GameMOde

it´s that correct?

Cause i want to fill a chat combo box with all connected players so i can select one player to whisper

[kindred widget]

More realistically your UI just should update with what the client itself knows. Instead of making GameMode call this on each playerstate, just make a Beginplay call in your actual playerstate and run that to call your UI to update. On the UI update, get all playerstates from the GameMode and populate the UI. This way anytime a new playerstate pops up on the client, it will update it's UI locally with local values. No network necessity.

Well, beyond simply replicating playerstates, which is already done.

[golden nest]

oh, and i have to switch on authority OnPlayerStateBeginPlay?

[kindred widget]

Depends on your setup. You could probably just run the call behind a IsDedicatedServer->Not->Branch.

Should run for anything that isn't a dedicated server.

Cause Dedicated doesn't care about UI.

[golden nest]

Ok, i will give it a try

Thanks ♥

But what if i call an InitialSetup in my playerstate?

Like this, i read a save file to populate my PS

[kindred widget]

@golden nest How do you normally call it?

[golden nest]

From PC

i should call it when my PC end it´s initialization?

[kindred widget]

I'm uncertain. It looks like it can be called at any point once the playerstate is valid on the client. I assume it's a pointless function for DedicatedServers, so you can possibly just run it after the same IsDedicatedServer branch.

Do you have your UObjects set up to replicate?

[golden nest]

Yep

[kindred widget]

Just making sure, cause they don't replicate by default. So if you didn't, the pointer would return null on clients.

[golden nest]

yeah, they are set to replicate

Now it´s like that

based on what you told me

[kindred widget]

Not dedicated. You need a Not between the IsDedicatedServer and the branch.

[sturdy root]

they're not 10x higher in the general case. They're only 10x higher for your two computers in the same room because all the traffic is going via Steam's network so them being close to each other doesn't matter, it's their distance to the rest of the internet (and the nearest Steam node) that matters. You'd likely have a lower ping to a dedicated server in the cloud than you would between your two computers on the same LAN since it's not using the LAN connection.

[golden nest]

now its not dedicated

i missed it

[sturdy root]

the main boon though is in emergent markets where the network topology can be very unpredictable, routing via steam's own private network gives a much more predictable routing and one optimized for latency rather than cost.

[golden nest]

But client keep reading null values

[kindred widget]

@golden nest Here.

[golden nest]

Ok

[kindred widget]

This will gate this logic off to only run if it's on a Client or Listenserver. Both of these have UI, so we want to run the UI update there. You probably also only want to upload the savegame data if this playerstate is the local player's Playerstate, so that's what the second branch is for. Which I suppose you can also use LocalRole for I think. Used to using the PlayerController check.

AFAIK these two checks return the same thing. The top might be easier.

[golden nest]

So, now both client and server cant read the values hahah

Its weird

[kindred widget]

In the settings or the UI update?

[golden nest]

I think i should do the upload first

and after that, update the widgets

Am i right?

And we are doing the opposite, updating before loading

[kindred widget]

Just a sec. Reading through your logic flow. I think I'm missing a piece though. Where is EveryoneUpdates called from on the server?

[golden nest]

It was in game mode, but I deleted it based on what you told me

[kindred widget]

What was calling it before?

[golden nest]

Pc

When it finished loading

Give me a second I’m about to have a lunch

[kindred widget]

And you need the UI to update after the creation of the User object?

[golden nest]

Yeah

I load the User Object, and after that I want to populate the ui

[kindred widget]

Hmm. UObjects don't have a beginplay I don't believe. That complicates things.

[golden nest]

No, UObjects don’t have it

[kindred widget]

So.. If this playerstate spawns on the local controlling client, beginplay runs. It gathers data and sends it to the server. Server creates another replicated object. Perhaps the UObject should have a Repnotify variable that is a struct of the information you want displayed. It itself could update the UI when it's changed, and it would be consistent with having the full data if it's sent in a struct.

I'm not certain what the User UObject is for besides this UI stuff, but it's possible that these settings you're feeding into it might also just be stored on the Playerstate itself and replicated there?

[golden nest]

Mmmm it could be

I’m having trouble understanding the concept of replication sometimes

Let me finish my lunch and I be right back

[kindred widget]

I'm out of my depth a bit with the UObject part. I do everything through Actors or ActorComponents.

[eternal canyon]

thats my name

[golden nest]

👀

Here i am

[still path]

is it possible to have multiple players possess a single vehicle? IE 5 players ride together in a truck

[lost inlet]

no, and I'm not sure why you'd do that. you'd have the driver possess

[tranquil yoke]

I wonder which user will control the truck then.

[rancid cave]

I am using a Widget Component for a health bar in my multiplayer top-down game. Everything about it is working great, except when the characters move, the widget doesn't seem to keep up, and it jitters quite a bit. The character movement itself is nice and smooth in multiplayer, but the widget is jittery. Any ideas? It's set to screen btw, not world.

[grizzled stirrup]

Yeah I definitely get that the ping would be higher in general since it has to route through Steam but at 125 ping minimum it seems like a bit of a dealbreaker to use steam sockets even if other users could potentially get better ping in different countries. The ping here indicates that it's going to a server overseas and back rather than one in europe. The non steam sockets ping is around 10ms of course because it's directly connecting so it's expected to be very low. I'd be happy with even 50ms ping going through sockets but 125+ is just too high for a good player experience

[grizzled stirrup]

That's the thing, I read everywhere that it's optimized for latency and finding optimal routes but the latency is 10x worse than not using the sockets feature

Maybe I'm just experiencing a rare case and for other users it's fine

But when testing with a friend from overseas we get roughly the same ping as I do with a computer in the same room

[winged badger]

this is how playerstates already register with GameState under the hood and then love happily in PlayerArray @golden nest

[sturdy root]

you're comparing apples to oranges.
You're comparing a connection on the same network to a roundtrip to the closest steam node and back.

If you don't have a really bad connection 125 RTT to the closest steam node sounds very high though. It should be <10 if you have fiber and live in a place with decent internet infrastructure.

[grizzled stirrup]

Yeah that's the thing I have a very good connection but the latency is very poor

[sturdy root]

though the point of using steam sockets is not for optimizing the case of ppl on the same ISP connecting to each other, you'll never beat the default routing for that since it literally is the shortest route to never even get on the internet.

It's optimizing a realistic route through the internet across countries or continents. You'll probably get slightly higher pings for the absolute ideal conditions, but you should be getting way better and more stable pings for the less than ideal conditions, ensuring everybody has a more consistent experience.

[grizzled stirrup]

In that case it might be worth sticking with it then

If it gives a generally worse latency for people in the same country but overall better for global connections

I had just thought 125 was a bit crazy

As it feels like going from europe to US and back

[sturdy root]

however, if you want the boon of a private network but don't want the drawback you could try using NetworkNext, I don't think they'll fix NAT punching for you (I'm not up to date though) but they will improve the routing, optimizing for latency instead of only cost.

[grizzled stirrup]

I have heard sockets is more stable, encrypted etc.

And that's very important for long play sessions

[sturdy root]

125ms does sound crazy to me too if you normally have <50ms in regular internet games

i left a company just after they released this for their game and I know they did get complaints from ppl playing on the same LAN reporting higher pings

[grizzled stirrup]

Normally have 20ms for most games that use servers

[sturdy root]

I don't know how it ended up though.

alright, that sounds very fishy. I would try asking in the steam dev forums

[grizzled stirrup]

I know valheim is having issues

Yeah I may do that thanks!

Might be some kind of routing issue for specific cases

Thanks for your help

[sturdy root]

no worries, glad to be of help

[rose egret]

is it easy to make multiplayer , dedicated server friendly ladder for my FPS game ? should I change CMC or .. ?

[cosmic trail]

@rose egret depends. CMC is not bad for FPS games

Where do I look more into why a OnlineSubSystem Join Session does not in fact join a session but seems to make a new game? I'm trying to see where in the c++ code it hooks up to GameModeBase, if anyone has any pointers to where I can look, would be very appreciated.

[bleak hawk]

I imagine it would work fine to just change the direction to that of the ladder in AddMovementInput while climbing? If prediction doesn't work right this way, you would have to add a custom flag in CMC or something

[rose egret]

@bleak hawk I Guess AddMovementInput wont do anything in this case because of gravity. this way users could cheat and go up on the sky 🙂

I need custom movement mode 🤔

[bleak hawk]

Yeah you're right ofc

[peak sentinel]

How do you guys handle weapon switching, ammo and currentweapon variable in non-competitive projects? I am analyzing UT right now, nullptr checks, local functions, nullptr checks again, setting weapons nullptr again, bruh.. blowed my mind xD

I thought about creating a struct and setting ammo, current weapon, secondary weapon there and setting an OnRep to it

[dark edge]

If it's not competitive and not meant to be super snappy, just on rep it

I have ammo live on weapon actor, actor is spawned when pulled out of storage (equipping from bank or whatever)

[kindred widget]

@peak sentinel That depends a whole lot on your game style. If you're looking for oldschool shooter, just make a class map of weapons in the controller for private ammo or playerstate for public view. Handle the current weapon's ammo in the weapon, shoot til it's empty, then on reload you can add to the weapon and lower that weapon's class's value in the map. On weapon drop you can choose to add that ammo back to the map or not.

It really just comes down to what style you're after. I mean you can make a huge inventory system, but it's unnecessary if you're just going to have two equipped weapons and not care about ammo type or only care about ammo type for one weapon or a subclass of weapons.

[weary badge]

Hey everyone,
I've been having an issue for almost 2 weeks now.
After a seemless travel, I use a "on swap player controller", but whenever anything gets replicated later on the client hast issues getting the values.
I found out, that the issue is that the client side is not ready at that point. (I used a delay to check)

Can someone maybe help me out on that one ?

[gleaming vector]

there are definitely some areas where you do not want to use SDR (the relay system)

like, areas in the world

because valve doesn't have SDR relays there

but, i believe you can just turn off SDR with a function call

[grizzled stirrup]

In this case in the UK I was thinking they would have relay servers at least nearby like in Germany or something? The 125+ ping suggests it's going to the US.

[gleaming vector]

but i don't know how mixed SDR and non SDR connections work

[grizzled stirrup]

Great to know you can turn it off though!

I'll see if it can just be cleanly disabled while retaining the other benefits like encryption

[gleaming vector]

i believe it can

you just lose the ddos protection

you retain nat punchthrough and encryption

[grizzled stirrup]

But keep the IP anonymous?

Great that sounds perfect

I suppose you don't keep the anonymity if not using the relay

[gleaming vector]

you do not keep ip anonymity

[grizzled stirrup]

Got it thanks

[gleaming vector]

that's the point of the relay

[grizzled stirrup]

Will search for that function to disable now

Yeah my bad didn't think it through

Just curious about the punchthrough, my games seem to work without it on the standard steam subsystem connection

Is this just because I happen to have some ports open on my router?

Or are there other benefits of having it?

[gleaming vector]

no, the old p2p sockets have nat punchthrough too

[grizzled stirrup]

Ah ok cool

[gleaming vector]

they are deprecated though

[grizzled stirrup]

Yeah I really want to stay with sockets but need to sort the ping out for a good experience for all

[gleaming vector]

basically, steam network sockets without SDR are basically the old steam p2p sockets

with a few more features

[grizzled stirrup]

Noted! And it is the way to go for future support / updates etc.

Will keep it on

Thanks for answering

I found OnlineSubsystemSteam.bAllowP2PPacketRelay controls whether or not packets should tunnel through the Steam communication network when using a dedicated server. but since it mentions dedicated server explicitly I'm not sure if it'll work for listen servers

Will try it out regardless

P2P listen servers always use Steam's communication network regardless of this setting. damn 😦

[lament sinew]

When Instantiating a replicated object on the server, the constructor should be called 2 times right?

[grizzled stirrup]

once on server, once for each client

[lament sinew]

i only see one constructor call when i set it to be net addressable

idk whhy

[kindred widget]

@lament sinew Are you running under one process? I don't believe the log will work for the clients if you're not running under one process.

[twin juniper]

How can I get a niagara particle system to replicate?

[kindred widget]

@twin juniper Usually you don't. You create replicated state and let that toggle the emitters client side.

[lament sinew]

yeah under one process, but if SetNetAddressable to false
i get correct log

[twin juniper]

Any chance of explaining that a bit more?

authaer i mean

[lament sinew]

for example someone shot his gun that guy plays some niagara effect and the server tells other players to play the same niagara effect for their simulated proxies

[kindred widget]

@twin juniper Such as creating a replicated boolean and toggling that from the server, and using an OnRep for the bool to turn the emitter on or off.

[twin juniper]

When working in multiplayer, what would you use for casting to your player class ?
In singleplayer, I used to use: GetPlayerCharacter()->Cast to BP_Player. Is there a multiplayer equivalent ?

(I'm just beginning trying multiplayer stuff, so sorry if that sounds very noob-ish)

[kindred widget]

@twin juniper Unfortunately that's not quite how that works. You can still use GetPlayerCharacter, but it doesn't work in too many places and the places it does you still don't really use the call. Maybe UI sometimes. You'll learn to abstract your data as you learn more multiplayer stuff.

[lusty sky]

idk if the name is stable if u created the object during gameplay

it must be same name on client/server to be netaddressable

[twin juniper]

Oh I see... Thank you. But how am I supposed to do my casts ?

Like here. What object should I use?

[kindred widget]

That doesn't change with multiplayer. Casting is nothing more than taking a reference to something, and converting it to a different type of reference. It's still pointing to the same object, you're just able to use it differently based on the casted class type. That has to do with class hierarchy.

[twin juniper]

So I'm guessing I can still use GetPlayerCharacter()... Even though the index is set to 0 ? If that's the case, that's pretty interesting.

[kindred widget]

@twin juniper This might help you understand a little. The bottom part of both of these are how the C++ in the top part works.

Now the reason this is important is because only one controller exists on each client. Only the server has multiple controllers. This is important because this is where it differs. In a Dedicated server, the server doesn't have a controller itself even though it contains all of the controllers. In a Listenserver, the server is also a player, and the first created controller is theirs.

What this leads to is that GetPlayerController at index 0 will always return the local machine's controller except for on dedicated server, but it still works on Listenserver.

For instance. Calling GetPlayerController on a client will always return null, even with fifty people in the game. While calling that same thing on the server will get the first connected client.

[twin juniper]

Mhm... It helps me understanding better.

[kindred widget]

In reality, you will never use anything except a zero in that call, because it should ONLY ever be used for local controller stuff.

[twin juniper]

So, stop me if I'm wrong, but keeping it at index 0 will always make sure the current client is selected ?

(ex: If I'm playing as a client on my game's server, it will return MY controller ?)

[kindred widget]

Correct.

That's why it's often only used for UI stuff. UI is always local and never networked,

[twin juniper]

I was indeed using it in a widget class.

Thank you very much for those explanations. Really!

[dark edge]

@twin juniper your widget should be able to get its local player or controller, from there you can easily get the pawn

[twin juniper]

Yep! Done it, thank you 🙂

[cosmic trail]

Can anyone help tell me why SubsystemBSD::GetAddressInfo fails and I can't create/host a Steam Session. Here's the log file

            LogInit : WinSock: Socket queue.Rx : 32768 (config 32768) Tx : 32768 (config 32768)
            LogNet : Created socket for bind address : 0.0.0.0 on port 0
            PacketHandlerLog : Loaded PacketHandler component : Engine.EngineHandlerComponentFactory(StatelessConnectHandlerComponent)
            LogNet : Game client on port 7777, rate 100000
            LogSockets : Warning: GetAddressInfo failed to resolve host with error SE_HOST_NOT_FOUND[11001]```
And basically it's trying to find the host address: "World" on port 7777.  And it can't resolve this address. I'm not sure why it's sending world. I'm just creating an advanced session using the SteamOnlineSubsystem

[lost inlet]

because that doesn't look like a remotely valid travel URL

and it's interpreting "World" as a hostname, which is at the start of the travel URL

[cosmic trail]

@lost inlet thanks! So that's where the "World" was coming from. I copied the reference path of the level in asset browser and pasted it in Openlevel. Thought it would be able to open it still, as many things seem to be fine with that copied path.

[rancid cave]

Having an issue with mutliplayer widget components (Health Bars) looking fairly choppy when the other characters are moving. The characters themselves are moving really smoothly. Any ideas on how to smooth that out?

[sturdy root]

cate

[pallid mesa]

@rancid cave try attaching the health bar widget component to the character mesh

[still path]

@lost inlet sorry, i should clarify - Im aiming to have multi player vehicles in which there is a driver, gunner, ect controlling different aspects of the vehicle. I cant think of a way to do this outside of attaching to separate actors.

[rancid cave]

Dude.. that made a HUGE difference. Would have never thought of that... thanks a bunch!

[pallid mesa]

👍 😄 glad it helped! That's because of how the character movement component handles updated component interpolation with mesh offseting

[dark edge]

Characters possess the seats. The truck has multiple seats, and all the seats talk to the truck and send it their control Data like events and variables

Although you don't strictly need to use possession for this.

[still path]

@dark edge 🙌

[floral bison]

anyone know what would make a repnotify not trigger for all clients?

[dark edge]

Are they all Network relevant? is the variable actually replicating?

[floral bison]

jeez so it was the always relevant lol i thought that only matters when the actors were far enough away from each other

[dark edge]

It depends on what your network relevancy distance is

[kindred widget]

There's also a visual factor to relevancy I think. For instance an actor with just a scene component won't be relevant on clients without Always Relevant.

[empty axle]

There is nothing like visual factor in network relevancy

[kindred widget]

Ah. Not visual, my bad. Collision.

Well, that only applies for hidden things. Which technically while not visible, Scene Components shouldn't be hidden.

[graceful loom]

is it possible to replicate player state to characters that aren't possessed? like bWantsPlayerState?

[kindred widget]

Maybe possible, but usually PlayerStates are owned by controllers.

[graceful loom]

character inherits OnRep_PlayerState from pawn

and the controller owns the character

I can get the state through getowner I just want the onrep

[bitter oriole]

Player state is available globally on all clients

[graceful loom]

I want the onrep in the character

[bitter oriole]

The better question is which player state you want

[graceful loom]

the one associated with the owner

[bitter oriole]

The owner of an unpossessed pawn should be null

[kindred widget]

I'm semi confused about the possession part. Usually even if your player controller isn't controlling the pawn, an AI controller does.

[graceful loom]

SetOwner

[bitter oriole]

If you are manually forcing the ownership of the pawn, then you can add a new replicated player state on that pawn and set it to the owner's

[graceful loom]

that'll work

thanks

I'm controlling the pawns with the player I'm just not possessing them, and I haven't come across a reason to have an AIController for them yet

but I haven't made them do anything yet either

so there's that

I'm still just wiring up ability components and character switching

[bitter oriole]

Why not possess them, though

[graceful loom]

I'm possessing a pawn with a camera, I didn't see any reason to possess them

[bitter oriole]

You should possess the actual pawn imho

[kindred widget]

I'll be the first to admit that I love writing stuff from the ground up. But if you have semi complicated plans for these, which I assume is the case since they're characters and not basic floating pawns, I strongly recommend the AI controller route for blackboard/behaviortree access.

Also solves the current problem since AI controlled pawns can request PlayerStates.

[bitter oriole]

Or that

[graceful loom]

that was my original plan but I didn't come up with anything I needed the AI to do that I couldn't just tell them to do directly

so I took the controller out

but I hear you

I figured cross that bridge when I get there but it's becoming relevant sooner than I thought

[kindred widget]

AI Controllers are cheap. You won't even notice them really. I was messing around with a 350 ai test at some point and running profiling. Controllers were near non existent.

[graceful loom]

yeah I'm running like 20 characters max that shouldn't ever be a problem

[kindred widget]

Sweeping movement on the other hand. That stuff is brutal.

[graceful loom]

it'll take like 20 minutes to put them back in should be fine

and then I can find out that onrep_playerstate isn't a good place to imbue default attributes lol

[kindred widget]

Attributes as in stats, and imbue as in affect?

[graceful loom]

yeah

[kindred widget]

Haha, weeeeeell.

You'd want to do that stuff server side. OnRep should just inform the client that something has arrived when you need to do something with the data like update UI.

[graceful loom]

the tutorial did it on the server in possessedby and on the client in onrep

on the client to set up input as well

I wondered why initializing the attributes twice though

they should just replicate right

[kindred widget]

They should. Client should have no effect over that stuff since the real data exists on the server. Changing that kind of stuff on the client is a good way to end up with UI bugs not displaying correct info.

[graceful loom]

so far I just did it when I spawned them in gamemode and used a client rpc to set up input, it worked alright

[kindred widget]

What kind of input?

[graceful loom]

each character has an abilitysystem, I give it an inputcomponent and bindabilityactivation; when I switch to the character I turn its input on in the playercontroller in buildinputstack

it does work fine when I take all the attribute initialization out of the client, thanks

[peak sentinel]

How effective is lowering NetUpdateFrequency if I too many pawns in my level?

I am using 66 for now, not sure if its worth lowering or not at this value

[golden nest]

Can someone help me? I can´t get the server calling client to execute an event Clientside

Based on that code, client should print "hello" when a new player state is spawn. But only server says "hello"

Even whit the event on the widget set to "run on owning client"

[lament sinew]

probably the playerstate was not yet created for the client and the code didn't execute?

[golden nest]

and how can i check that?

[lament sinew]

you calling the client rpc on beginplay?

[golden nest]

yep

[lament sinew]

you can try to use a delay for 5 or 10 seconds before calling the rpc on the client to see if it works
but you should find a better way to solve it

[golden nest]

ok i´ll give it a try

[empty axle]

@golden nest You should not have RPCs inside widgets. They should represent the game state by fetching it from somewhere else.
Why not just move the logic to client begin play? You are not passing any data in that RPC anyway. Also it won't reach the client as the PlayerState is probably not created on the client side yet.

[twin juniper]

hi! how come onrep event is not called on my authority client for array replication, but it is called for variable replication

(it is called on non-authority for both variables and arrays)

the variables/arrays are all part of player controler

[golden nest]

so i moved the logic to PC, so went a player state begin plays, it loads client data and pass it to server, then it calls an update on every PC to populate their WB with new data. It´s that correct?

i checked by delay and what i noticed is that replication doesn´t happen in time

so if the server calls the all PCs update after 10 sec, it works

But i don´t know how to wait until data is loaded to run the AllPCs update

[empty axle]

You can probably just call your functions client-side on BeginPlay. Why do you need to RPC that?

[grizzled stirrup]

If the same client RPC is called in the same frame with 2 different inputs, would only the second input get called on the client?

[golden nest]

i´m a mess with replication haha

So, call it only from begin play?

like this?

cause i need all players to update their wb

[grizzled stirrup]

begin play is called on both client and server

So if you are calling a client RPC it should be checked if on the server first

[kindred widget]

@grizzled stirrup I doubt that the inputs matter. This at least prints twice in testing without arguments.

[grizzled stirrup]

Interesting so it gets called twice

Thanks!

[empty axle]

Yes it should be called twice

@golden nest the for loop is unnecessary. You don't have access to other players player controllers client-side.

[golden nest]

oh

So, if i remove the for loop and call only a local update, it will happen in all clients and sever?

i mean

[empty axle]

That seems fine

[golden nest]

But server does not update

server

client

[lament sinew]

you probably should ask the server (server rpc) to send back data via client rpc
whenever client asks for it

[golden nest]

So on begin play, load client data and pass it to server, then from server call a client RPC to update window?

[bitter oriole]

https://twitter.com/playrust/status/1369611688539009025
And we were talking about how dedicated servers aren't easy yesterday

Rust (@playrust)

Update:
We've confirmed a total loss of the affected EU servers during the OVH data centre fire. We're now exploring replacing the affected servers.

Data will be unable to be restored.

Likes

731

Twitter · Mar 10, 2021, 11:30 AM

[golden nest]

So, i change the user variable to RepNotify, so i run the update on notify, but client does not execute anything on rep notify

I´m having a rough day with this..

[kindred widget]

@bitter oriole Haha, ouch. That's brutal. That's going to be a mad playerbase.

[golden nest]

this is the setup of the player state

[bitter oriole]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwHSRG6XAAQZFe0?format=jpg&name=large

[golden nest]

and the user repnotify

[kindred widget]

@golden nest If your User pointer notify isn't running, then that object isn't being replicated for some reason most likely. It will fire that notify on the client if that variable changes to anything other than nullptr

[golden nest]

So what u mean is that client does not spawn user yet?

Cause i can´t find another way

Client loads data clientside and pass it to server. Server saves client´s data serverside and repnotify the change, so all clients should update their WB

Can´t find the mistake

It´s simply not running on client, but server prints that the value changed

wanna see the prints?

[kindred widget]

I have to stress the question again, are you absolutely certain that you've taken all of the necessary steps to replicate non Actor, non ActorComponent, UObjects? Because that pointer should resolve on the client and run the repnotify when the thing is spawned on the client from replication. At least Actors and Components work this way.

[golden nest]

So i will try rep notify the data structure

and if it fails i will kill myself

[bitter oriole]

I mean

This object you're trying to replicate is just a basic UObject ?

[potent cradle]

Meh, wipes are near constant with Rust

Part of the fun, actually

[bitter oriole]

Yeah, I know, just amused that this happens right after our convo

[potent cradle]

Aye 😄

Fate hahaha

[bitter oriole]

Though I did check that our server was fine first

[bitter oriole]

How is that "user data" structure defined ?

[golden nest]

Yes, UObject

[bitter oriole]

Gameplay_PS right ?

[golden nest]

that´s the data structure

and i fill it whit clients data, and pass it to server

with*

[bitter oriole]

Did you check that the server function is actually called from the client ?

[kindred widget]

I'm 97% certain this is a problem with not having UObject replication set up.

[golden nest]

I change the struct to repnotify and it works fine

[golden nest]

So, u are right

But, it´s impossible to have objects replicated in some way?

[bitter oriole]

Two things I don't get

• where is that basic UObject in the graph ? player state is not one and neither is a struct
• what was the state of the struct if not repnotify ?

[golden nest]

Before setting the struct to repnotify it was replicated

[bitter oriole]

I mean, if it's just replicated, you don't get an onrep event i guess

[golden nest]

And, the UObject is "User", it is in the event "SetUser"

[golden nest]

yeah but i was trying to repnofity user object, not the structure

[bitter oriole]

Basic UObjects don't replicate out of the box

[winged badger]

nor can you get them to replicate via blueprints

[golden nest]

So what if i would like to replicate them?

[winged badger]

start networking in c++

[bitter oriole]

Or use a component instead in BP

[golden nest]

Only component?

ActorComponent?

[winged badger]

only Actors and ActorComponents replicate out of the box

anything not out of the box, blueprint can't do

[golden nest]

Got it

[winged badger]

its not the usual BP can't do everything c++ can here

BP has the bare bones network functionality

about 10% of it is exposed

[golden nest]

So in c++ i can do whatever i want?

hahahha

[winged badger]

no, but let me put it this way

i don't think a game with more then 4 players will ever work well with BP alone

[golden nest]

Why?

[winged badger]

no tools to optimize

as in, you literally don't have a single one

[golden nest]

So bp is for desing functionality?

Like interfaces or animation?

[winged badger]

networking and handling large data sets

are the only 2 things i would not consider doing from BP

well, few other more niche things as well, like pathfinding 😄

[bitter oriole]

Blueprint is great to implement high-level logic, character-specific features, UI, level scripting

It's also how you interact with content

[chrome bay]

Well that's a stark reminder to backup my Droplet offline 😮

[bitter oriole]

But it's not really great to create an entire multiplayer game

[bitter oriole]

Right ?

[golden nest]

Ok, thanks for all of this

I will start with c++ networking

[silent valley]

The OVH fire is a stark reminder for sure, but makes you wonder how many games actually backup their dedicated server data.
My server data is already stored in S3 so I wonder if just having a periodic lambda job that copies it to another region would be enough.

and is it worth it given the rarity of cloud data loss

[bitter oriole]

No backups at all is probably a bad idea

Some backups at a moderate frequency is cheap

[rich ridge]

What kind of data backup makes sense for dedicated servers??

[silent valley]

backup world state and player data if stored on the machine

or if all stored in the same datacentre 🙂

[rich ridge]

@silent valley just a thought.. these data can be backed-up at analytics level

Like firebase analytics.. or gama-analytics

So no need to pay for any third party storage

[frank birch]

guys, I have a problem...
In my multiplayer ""game"", I assign a pawn to a player and it gets connected to the controller via "start to join".
How can I tell after a world travel which controller should control the newly spawned pawn?
Most tutorials use controller 0 because they assume there is only one player but that might not be the case.
Can I assume that the controller that in world A was number 1 will be the same in world B?

Another example would be: How to "remember" to which team a player belongs after a map change?

[golden nest]

I think u should save the player data to disk or GameInstance when changing maps, so u can load it when u open the new map.

To have the same PC in both levels you can set it in WorldSettings of ur map. U need to change the game mode PC to ur custom one.

So when a new player arrives, the engine assings a new one, but whit the same logic, then u load your player data form disk o GameInstance

Also u can check the "Multiplayer with BPs tutorials" by Epic in YouTube, but its a little bit old, you would have to learn some things by yourself, like posting in this discord channel haha

[kindred widget]

Server travel can solve quite a bit of that.

[frank birch]

I tried but it's really confusing. It starts trying to replicate variables directly from the gamemode when the GM exists only on the server. 😅

[frank birch]

I am using servertravel... but... how do I remember stuff between travels? 🤔

[kindred widget]

If I recall correctly, player state has an event you can override.

[frank birch]

EventOnSwapPlayerController is an event that happens when a player controller arrives (via servertravel) to a new gamemode 👀
that could be my ticket

[thin stratus]

Make sure to use ServerTravel as Seamless Travel

OnSwapPlayerControllers is in the GameMode to go from old to new PC

PlayerState has something similar, OnCopyProperties

[frank birch]

That's even better. It makes more sense to store my data in the playerState than the PC. Thx ❤️

[split pasture]

Hello everyone. I'm learning UE networking and I wanted to create simple mechanism of players interacting with an actor. I created Interactable component which I'm adding to the Actor. It has collision sphere to detect overlaps with player characters. On OnOverlapBegin and End I print simple message with name of the character overlapping. Problem is, that these events fire twice and they print two player character names even if the second one is not overlapping. Anyone ever encountered such behaviour?

[primal isle]

can anyone help with this widget? i can only see the points changing on the character that dies not on all of them

the int is set to replicate tho

[dusk agate]

is it posible to add like a feature where players get to chose their user name?

[graceful loom]

I'm spawning characters with a default AI controller and possessing them with ACharacter::SpawnDefaultController, but when I call server RPCs on them that talk to the controller I get "no owning connection for actor" -- what am I missing?

nvm

aicontroller doesn't create a net connection so I can't call RPCs on the character

[hollow oasis]

Trying to make RTS and i want to have 1v1 where each player have own army

but how can i make that player can only select building/army that is on his side

[graceful loom]

RTS is super super ambitious if that's where you're starting from

just check what team the actor is on when you try to select it

[hollow oasis]

not the first but yeah

[graceful loom]

I mean if you're starting from "how do I store the team on a unit and check it before doing a selection"

[hollow oasis]

setting like integer (indicating side) and then checking if unit/building have the same int?

set this int as tag or something

[graceful loom]

or just a property

[hollow oasis]

property?

[graceful loom]

you gotta do the tutorials

[hollow oasis]

yeah 😛

[graceful loom]

this is essentially what I'm doing

[hollow oasis]

ok got it

[echo pasture]

so for most events, like a weapon firing for example

is the best way to do it (to save network bandwidth) for all clients to execute the sound effects +annimations locally

and then each client will then make an rpc to the server

and then that server will tell all the other clients what client fired

err I guess that would just it happen on the client side two times, idk what I'm saying

[crystal crag]

Why on earth would you try to do anything that involves multiplayer if you don't even know what a property is o.O

[echo pasture]

but what about things that are both, things that are gamplay important and visually

(that can't be broken up)

I'm just thinking of things that can't be broken up

like a gunshot

everybody needs to know about it but it also has a sound

but if you are making a multicast event would that not double the information for the first client

if it was executed locally and then also sent as an rpc that the server then broadcasted to everyone

ah, ok

hmm, I've seen tutorials where they do a multicast event from a client replicated to server call, but maybe they got it wrong too

well in any case thanks for clarifying to me

I'd assume you would want some type of prediction though in a bigger type game right

at least I'd assume things like that are implemented in AAA games to get netcode right and prevent people from cheating

[graceful loom]

basic client prediction

tell the server you want to shoot, then do it anyway

if the server comes back with a reject then undo what you changed on the client

or if it doesn't come back at all

basic client prediction ends up being pretty complicated

you should look at using the gameplay ability system

client prediction is built in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_713CSOWkTU

@echo pasture

the server shouldn't replicate anything but the shot and consequences

nothing sound or graphics related

[unkempt wing]

Where is AGameModeBase::InitNewPlayer() called in the process of connecting a player to a server? I want to set the team variables and stuff based on Options in the URL so is this the spot?

[rich ridge]

@unkempt wing Login()

[steel vault]

Bit of a strange question: Say you are able to control two hands in game and swing them back and forth. When they reach a certain velocity and collide with each other they make a noise. These hand positions are RPC'd and replicated, but since the RPC frequency needs to be manageable, the other clients will not have accurate hand velocities or collision data. Would it be best to let the client RPC an event itself for its own collision at correct velocity which will then multicast on the server? Or should the RPC set some sort of CollidedServerTime variable that will play the sound on rep at some predicted time? I'm a little concerned that the multicast could take a while to reach the clients and the hands won't be close when the sound plays.

[plain torrent]

Question on Replication. We've currently got physics based object interaction. How would we best go about replicating physics objects reliably if object position is critical?

[echo pasture]

but if someone shoots, would you not want information on the sound of the shot location to be transmitted to the server, so that it can tell all the clients where the sound should be played?

also yeah that gameplay ability systems looks pretty cool, I was just moreso asking in general but it looks really nice

[empty axle]

You can just play the sound based on a shot location which will be replicated anyway. The same goes for particle effects etc.

[vivid seal]

how does passing an array or struct by ref work through an RPC?

void ClientPassThings(TArray<FThing> const& ThingsPassed)
{
  //Do stuff...
}

void SomeFunction()
{
  TArray<FThing> Things;
  //Fill struct...
  ClientPassThings(Things);
}

would this actually work?

[empty axle]

Yes

[vivid seal]

awesome thanks

[empty axle]

It still would be copied though in order to send it over network, but with passing by value it would be copied twice AFAIK

[vivid seal]

good to know, i wanted to pass by ref anyway but wasn't sure how that worked for sending over the network (since with objects you can't send pointers to non-replicated objects obviously, they wont exist on the receiving end)

[graceful loom]

like @empty axle said, you're sending info about events that happened to the other clients and they're simulating those events in their world. The sounds and animations are made by their simulations; if you're sending that info from the server your concerns are smeared around way too much

what does the server care about a sound?

if someone has a piano you don't send them an MP3 of middle C you just tell them to press middle C

---

(GEngine->GetNetMode(GetWorld()) == NM_Client) ? TEXT("[Client] ") I'm using this in a macro to label console output; what should I use to differentiate between two clients running from the editor?

[kindred widget]

@graceful loom Kismet's PrintString does this by using the PlayInEditorID.

[graceful loom]

ooh nice find, thanks

[graceful loom]

I'm spawning this pawn after the player state is initialized on the server, but in onrep_playerstate all the properties are uninitialized; what event should I be looking for to be clued in when there's actually player state on the client to look at?

and then I'm setting a replicated property in the gamemode after spawning the pawn and its onrep isn't being called lol

so far I think I've spent 80% of my time in ue4 on basically this issue in different forms

[chrome bay]

GameMode is never replicated so that would be why you don't get an OnRep there

It's server-side only

[graceful loom]

I'm spawning the actor and setting in gamemode, onrep is on the client

I spawn the actor, set its owner to the player controller, then set properties and they don't get replicated

[chrome bay]

CPP or BP?

[graceful loom]

cpp

[chrome bay]

Have you added the properties to GetLifetimeReplicatedProps?

[graceful loom]

SHIT

thanks

[chrome bay]

If you check the logs you'll see warnings about that 😄

[graceful loom]

there aren't any!

[chrome bay]

Normally it's something like replicated property 'x' not in replication list or something like that

[graceful loom]

nothin 😦

it likes to see me suffer

I put a sticky note on my monitor it's all good

now if I can just get the abilities to replicate I'll have done something with my week

[chrome bay]

Are you using GAS?

I think abilities only replicate to the owner.. can't remember off the top of my head

[graceful loom]

yeah I'm giving them successfully and I can apply effects and change attributes but the abilities never show up at the owner as activatable

I think I'm stretching their idea of ownership as thin as I can and getting burned for it

[chrome bay]

Might be better off asking in #gameplay-ability-system - there's a couple of pretty comprehensive samples there now too

[graceful loom]

thanks

[chrome bay]

Yeah well Ownership in networking sense is going to be whoever owns the ability component

[graceful loom]

yeah it should all be good to go as far as I can tell

[frank birch]

Gamemode exists only serverside... right? (I read this on the EXI bible)
So.. setting gamemode variables to replicate is useless since gamemode itself is never replicated... right?

Then why the Unreal engine video sets everything to replicate? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6QtvPrqNLg

[winged badger]

there are some unspeakable things happening in unreal engine videos

[frank birch]

eldritch horror stuff? 😨

[potent cradle]

Apparently, worse

[bronze arch]

Hi everyone, how i can find those replication settings for gameplaydebugger replicator and worldsetting replication?

[soft shell]

In a BP project I have a RepNotify variable; when changed from the "server" and on client if fires correctly.. I don't see this firing on a dedicated server instance (again in C++ I know it's wont' fire, but I can't find any reference to a BP project - will it be the same? i.e. not fire?)

[frank birch]

clients cant write variables and expect to replicate them to the server

clients need to RPC to ask the server to change a variable

@soft shell ☝️

Replication is always from server to clients. Never the other way arround.
Clients can call RPC (remote procedure calls) on the server. Server changes values. Values replicate

(BTW: by repeating this to you I found the bug in my code. I was trying to set a playerstate value from the client and expected it to work )

How is PlayerState's EventCopyProperty supposed to work?
it only does stuff on the listenserver and the clients don't do anything.
I tried creating an rpc and chaining it into eventcopyproperty, and then creatin an rpc to call another rpc because I am going insane and nothing works.
I am testing as standalone with one listenserver (because I know that servertravel doesn't work in editor.) I have my seamless travel on and the listenserver is getting the values but client don't

[chrome bay]

It's only ever called on the Server

I believe for Seamless travel you might have to use OverrideWith.. but I can never remember which way around it is

[frank birch]

can you explain a bit more? I am trying to transfer some player data between servertravels. I only found the SwapPlayerController and this event and I can't make it work with neither 😢

oh OverrideWith is an event... trying that...

nope, not working either 😦

Ok, internet is with me. Nobody managed to make server travel work.
Best I can find: store serverside a map with the players steamid or name or something and then look it up to replicate back.

[chrome bay]

Are you travelling outside of the editor first of all? Seamless travel IIRC doesn't work in editor at all

[frank birch]

I am testing as standalone with one listenserver (because I know that servertravel doesn't work in editor.) I have my seamless travel on and the listenserver is getting the values but client don't
I am testing standalone 😦

[chrome bay]

A few things to note is that you don't need any of those RPC's

You can do the property copying straight out of 'CopyProperties' or 'OverrideWith'

[frank birch]

those RPC were my desperation mode on
I feel really dumb

I found my bug

[chrome bay]

Okay found the answer - CopyProperties is post-seamless-travel

[frank birch]

the problem isn't the travel

[chrome bay]

OverrideWith is when the player joins a server they recently left and they want to get their old data/PS back

Couldn't remember which way around it was

[frank birch]

"picked character" is selected via UI... so it excecutes locally... so the server never sees that the playerstate picked a character... so it never travels

I am so sorry for making you waste your time

one day I will be a master of unreal networking...
probably the day unreal engine 6 lands

[snow thorn]

does anyone know how to make a listen server setup that hides peoples ips

kinda like how among us just connects to a game code

and the browser shows all open games

[frank birch]

that depends on your server subsystem

you either code your own or ride on steam

the default one can only hook up to local servers

[snow thorn]

ok i think ill use the steam subsystem

so if i ride on the steam subsystem i can hide ips and make it secure?

[eternal canyon]

I think they would still know the host ip but I might be wrong

[frank birch]

players should never comunicate with eachother

so you shouldn't bleed any IP adress 🤔

[eternal canyon]

well yea

[frank birch]

well, if you have a listen server then you know that ip 😛

[eternal canyon]

but I dont think they would be able to not show the host ip

because u cant just accept packets from the entire internet

[frank birch]

even if you don't show the host ip, you can follow your packages down the rabbit hole and find the ip 😛

and the host will know everyone's IPs

it has to, to be able to send the data over the internet 😛

[eternal canyon]

lol

dedicated servers are pretty much ur best option

if u can afford it

[frank birch]

[eternal canyon]

but by now there pretty cheap

[frank birch]

deploying a dedicated server and setting up the escalation and stuff is a thing

[eternal canyon]

I use playfab

[frank birch]

I didn't know playfab hosted dedicated servers

[eternal canyon]

yea we were able to get 90 hz tick rate on there standard thing max players 😅

[lament sinew]

probably amazon gamelift is even better because it scales dynamically based on the number of players instead of a fixed price

[wheat magnet]

i need your help

i need solution to matchmaking, for example i want to join two players in one room ( only one player vs other player )

how it possible

[frank birch]

either one of those two creates the server and hosts the game (listenserver)
or
you have a dedicated server for those players.

and then you still need a coordinator or something so they can find eachother 😛

[wheat magnet]

how it possible, can you explain more

my server is already running on amazon

i want to join two players, so only two players can play together

so each player can join room, or another player can join room

is listen server easy to implement?

[rancid cave]

I'm having some issues with "Set Timer By Events" not going off on the gamemode. I create one for my inital round start timer. Then after my round has finished and it's determined that a team won, I go through the process all over again, Works great the first time, doesn't work at all the subsequent times.

[winged badger]

question is then

how do you start it, exactly?

[rancid cave]

When a player dies, a function executes on the game mode to check and verify if all the players on one team are dead, if so it returns that the round is over. If the round is over, a "Start Round" event is called. It despawns the current actors, respawns everyone in the starting areas and then sets a timer by event for an "Open Gates" event that basically lets the players out. An event is then kicked off on the player controllers with the time remaining in that timer so that the player controllers can create a timer client-side that feeds the countdown widget. No matter what I do, the second time around, the timer is never active when it comes time to tell the clients to display the countdown. It's like it's not getting set. Everything else after that node executes, but it's like the timer isn't being properly generated for some reason

[winged badger]

just a vanilla, non looping timer?

no initial start delay?

[rancid cave]

non-looping. Just a "Set Timer By Event", that sets a Timer Handle variable. No Start Delay. 10 Seconds is the value pumped in for the timer.

[winged badger]

is it hardcoded ort do you have a varable inputb for time, and if so does it have a good value?

[rancid cave]

variable but the variable has a default value of 10 and I don't change it yet at all

[winged badger]

no clearing or invalidation?

[rancid cave]

Sorry, I do clear and invalidate the Timer Variable prior to trying to set it again

[winged badger]

that is not necessary

[rancid cave]

Initially, I was not doing that. I added it just to see if there was some kind of strange thing happening. I will pull it back out

[winged badger]

settimer will go over whatever that handle is running

it should not cause this

but my trust in blueprints never was

[rancid cave]

Yeah its just very strange behavior. I've worked with similar routines many times with no issues

i'm quite confident that the flow is solid. So I was just curious if anyone else had seen this kind of behavior

[winged badger]

especially considering that god awful behavior they have for initial start delay

[rancid cave]

yeah I avoid that like the plague lol

[winged badger]

in c++ SetTimer(Handle, Delegate, Interval, bLooping, InitialDelay)

Interval 10 and InitialDelay 5 means it will fire after 5 seconds

then every 10 seconds

in BP, they add initial start delay to the Interval for some reason

so its 15 for first one, then every 10

its terrible

[rancid cave]

have you tried that recently?

I think they may have fixed that

[winged badger]

they can't

because they would break every project that chose to hack around that

if they did

[rancid cave]

oh you're right lol

had to go look cuz I knew I was doing that somewhere. And I did have to subtract the interval when wiring in the start delay

[winged badger]

i can't even begin to imagine why they made it that way

[rancid cave]

Yeah that doesn't make much sense at all

[unkempt wing]

I need to call ServerTravel once my players have completed selecting their loadouts in a specific level but I need to have a new gamemode, playerstate, playercontroller, etc. How can I pass the loadout data over to the new level/new gamemode?

[rancid cave]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why this isn't firing...

Every single bit of code executes after the "Set Timer By Event" node, but Open Spawn Gates never fires and my timer variable is never set with a valid timer. It's like the Set Timer is failing.

This is a Gamemode BP, btw.

[dull lance]

so you're binding a timer to an event that calls a delegate?

[rancid cave]

Is that a no-no?

[dull lance]

Not exactly, it's just much nicer to do in cpp; you don't need a separate event for that.

Anyways, what happens if you set initial delay to a non zero value?

[rancid cave]

I will try that. One moment

same behavior. The OpenSpawnGates event never fires and my "StartTimer" variable is never set.

or at least isn't set to a 5 second timer anyway

the node does execute

[rancid cave]

Got it... sorry I'm REALLY DUMB

Note to others... when calling "Destroy Actor" from the gamemode blueprint... make sure you plug in the actor you're trying to destroy... and dont forget and leave it as "self" like me... 🙂

[graceful loom]

ServerTest never runs; what else do I need to satisfy to enable RPCs on an actor?

or how can I view debug output from the underlying system to see where it's stopping?

this is an ACharacter with bReplicates and bAlwaysRelevant set and it does replicate movement from the server to the client

[frank birch]

where is servertest?
to be able to call an RPC you have to own the thing that is RPCing. for example, you can't call a gamestate RPC from a client because the client doesn't own the gamestate. You need an RPC in your controller or controlled pawn (stuff the client owns).

if you need a function from gamestate or gamemode, let your controller or pawn rpc call it for you

@graceful loom ☝️

[frank birch]

TIL: Gamemode can commit sudoku

[graceful loom]

so this is a character that's owned by a playercontroller

that doesn't really line up with anything you said so I'm not sure how to interpret

the playercontroller is calling a function on the client object which calls its own server RPC member function

the client object being a character that's owned by that player controller

it's spawned on the server and automatically replicates to the client where this then happens

the character has a good net connection

and is trying to execute the rpc

it passes the checks for "does this function exist on both parties"

it gets a good actor channel

[frank birch]

I am reading the docs on how RPC work on cpp (I am a blueprint summer child)

do you have your Validate function and marked the rpc with the WithValidation thingy? 🤔

Page 63 onwards 🤔
http://cedric-neukirchen.net/Downloads/Compendium/UE4_Network_Compendium_by_Cedric_eXi_Neukirchen.pdf

[graceful loom]

no but I haven't had to use that to use RPCs before

I added it and it's not called

[frank birch]

oh, you are using InternalProcessRemoteFunction instead of just calling the RPC 😬
You are waaaaaaay out of my punching league 😓

[graceful loom]

no

I'm showing you the code that's running when I call the RPC

just to point out that it appears to be working

I found the insights tool so maybe that will help

[frank birch]

I'm creating a cpp project now to see if I can RPC from cpp 🤣

[graceful loom]

lol don't spend too much time on it

[frank birch]

nah, I will have to get back to cpp sooner or later. I can't be a blueprints child forever 😛

[frank birch]

GOOOOTEM!

My vscode says everything should be crashing and burning and the imports are all wrong but unreal compiles it anyway

[graceful loom]

lol yeah

you need visual studio with visual assist if you want intellisense to work

it works in VS but it's so slow it'll constantly tell you everything you're doing is broken

vscode I can't imagine would ever wrok

work

[rancid cave]

Can someone point me in the general direction of Spectating in multiplayer? Can all of the characters have a spectator camera on them? And then when a player dies I can just set their view to that camera or what way is that typically accomplished. Don't need to get too incredibly detailed, I just need a nudge in the right direction for the most accepted and efficient way to do that

[frank birch]

ok, I have a pawn, in the .h file I have:

    UFUNCTION(Server, unreliable, WithValidation)
    void RPC_WhoIsThis();

then, the cpp

void AMyRPCPawn::RPC_WhoIsThis_Implementation()
{
    if (HasAuthority())
    {
        GEngine->AddOnScreenDebugMessage(-1, 500.f, FColor::White, TEXT("Server!"));
    }else
    {
        GEngine->AddOnScreenDebugMessage(-1, 500.f, FColor::White, TEXT("Client!"));
    }
}

bool AMyRPCPawn::RPC_WhoIsThis_Validate()
{
    return true;
}

(crazy, the original RPC_WhoIsThis doesn't exists directly, only via the _Implementation thingy)

Finally, I call it inside beginPlay like this:

void AMyRPCPawn::BeginPlay()
{
    Super::BeginPlay();

    // only the client invokes the rpc...
    if (!HasAuthority())
    {
        RPC_WhoIsThis();
    }
}

Bam. it just prints Server!

That's an RPC baby!

[graceful loom]

are you possessing it?

[frank birch]

(also, I am "testing as client" inside my UE editor)

yep

[graceful loom]

ok now unpossess it and call setowner()

if it still works then I'll seppuku

[graceful loom]

I just spawn a special pawn for spectating and possess that

[rancid cave]

@graceful loom but I want the camera to be attached to other players. I don't want them to be able to freely move around

[graceful loom]

you make the pawn do whatever you want

that's exactly what I'm doing, the pawn has a springarm and camera and orbit controls and I attach its transform to the player its following

[rancid cave]

you're just resetting your location every tick then?

to match the player you're spectating?

[potent cradle]

You can also attach the whole pawn

To the player you want to follow

[rancid cave]

as a component?

[potent cradle]

Err, there's an attachactortoactor or something like that. I'm on mobile :D

[rancid cave]

ah okay. i'll look into that. I did this a long time ago and it seemed like I was attaching more like you're talking about

[potent cradle]

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/API/Runtime/Engine/GameFramework/AActor/AttachToActor/index.html

[rancid cave]

nice. I'll look into that. Thanks!

[graceful loom]

yeah that's what I'm using

though I want to find a solution that has some slop in it

so the camera chases more than attaches

[rancid cave]

camera lag?

[graceful loom]

but I haven't messed with it because #multiplayer

camera lag doesn't affect the scenecomponent root

not that I've noticed

[potent cradle]

Maybe just lerp position on tick

[graceful loom]

I'm using lag for orbit and zoom and it's attached pretty tightly

[potent cradle]

Instead of hard attaching

[graceful loom]

yeah I have lerp chase to switch targets I just haven't put it together for attach yet

too busy having RPCs not fire lol

[frank birch]

I am having problems reattaching the owership...

cpp is gonna be the end of me 🤣

[graceful loom]

hm speaking of moving actors, I'm driving this character with aicontroller movetolocation and it's smooth on the client who didn't initiate the move, but jerky on the client who did

[frank birch]

at least I have intellisense in vscode working. Slow as molasses but working 😛

[graceful loom]

am I missing some extra movementcomponent options for prediction?

[potent cradle]

Prediction? For AI? 🤔

[graceful loom]

I didn't think so..

but the jerking makes me think it's rubberbanding?

[meager spade]

you trying to do local client moving on network but using navmesh?

[potent cradle]

How do you mean "initiate the move" exactly? Wouldn't that be on the server?

[graceful loom]

yes a server RPC calls AIController::MoveToLocation

[meager spade]

we did that in work project

so client moves locally, no delay waiting for a server rpc and then client moving once server says 😄

[graceful loom]

hm I don't need any client involvement really

it's not realtime so a delay is fine

I can animate around it

[meager spade]

can you gif this jerkiness?

[clear salmon]

is there any reason to do if(Role == Role_Authority) in a SERVER RPC?

[meager spade]

no. Server RPC ONLY ever runs on server.

so what would be the benefit?

[clear salmon]

Well im trying to implement a multiplayer inventory correctly, so i have an AddItem that is marked UFUNCTION(Server)

But the Client calls that function

is there anyway for the CLient to cheat this?

[graceful loom]

hm actually you know what I think I know the issue one sec

[meager spade]

@potent cradle we have local client moving on navmesh overrode a lot of the CMC and PlayerController to achieve, then we force the players character to be autonomous, was quite involved, but means client can click and move without any input delay

[graceful loom]

@clear salmon server RPC will only invoke on server

[meager spade]

server should always check that what the client sent them is sane

[frank birch]

I have my post-it at the office but there is a command to see the server corrections. You can use that to see if you are actually rubberbanding 🤔

[meager spade]

p.netShowCorrections

[frank birch]

thataone

[potent cradle]

Interesting. Why would there be a delay in the normal circumstance?

[meager spade]

rpc to server then the server needs to start moving the client via replication

100ms ping would be a small delay

before your character started moving

[potent cradle]

Oh right 🤔

That's really neat actually

Kudos

[frank birch]

clumsy is great for creating all kinds of crappy network conditions: https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/download

[meager spade]

we just have a guy with a crappy laptop in america host

all kinds of issues crop up 😄

but yeah we test locally with clumsy

[frank birch]

I am still at the run client and server on my machine and read frantically the EXi guide phase 😅

[meager spade]

i pretty much know most of UE4's networking stuff

only thing that is still tricky is dealing with replication race issues

[cyan bane]

If I allow my game to get modded, how safe would it be for players to download those mods? Like is there a way to sandbox the mods so they don't have internet access or have the ability to install nefarious things?

[meager spade]

best to ask that on the UE4 modding forum tbh

[frank birch]

If we are talking nefarious... I can put my evil code in the installer of the mod 😛

[cyan bane]

I meant like via steam

[meager spade]

that is not corrections

do you have your Skeletal mesh component set as replicated?

[graceful loom]

the player pawn with the camera is replicated so I thought it was that rubberbanding but I ensured that it's attached on both client and server

1s

yup

[meager spade]

untick it

then try

[graceful loom]

still jerks

[fossil spoke]

Is the Camera attached to the Mesh or the Capsule?

[graceful loom]

I used AttachToActor

[meager spade]

ah yeah if its on the capsule, it would jerk

[graceful loom]

is that bidirectional?

[meager spade]

as the mesh is interpolated

[fossil spoke]

Attach it to the Mesh

[meager spade]

1: turn of skeletal mesh replication. 2: attach camera to mesh

skeletal mesh replication will cause its position to fight with the CMC

[graceful loom]

you fixed it!

thank you 🙂

[meager spade]

@graceful loom when the cmc moves the simulated proxies, it interpolates the mesh

the capsule just jumps

hence why you see that issue

[graceful loom]

gotcha

to reduce the number of collision events?

[frank birch]

on the "set owner and then try to RPC" my cpp-fu is not strong enough.
I can't find how to get a controller reference serverside 😦

[meager spade]

not sure what you mean

you mean set the owner of an actor to a specific player?

normally you know at the time via some reference path

[graceful loom]

I'm using AGameModeBase::HandleStartingNewPlayer(APlayerController*)

[graceful loom]

so he's responding to my ongoing issue; I'm using SetOwner on a character that isn't possessed by the playercontroller and trying to call server RPCs on it

the client is doing everything it can to send the call out but the server isn't running it

it has a good connection and channel and builds the call and writes it; rn I'm trying to get insights to work to look at the server side network

[meager spade]

@graceful loom but its possessed by an ai controller right?

[graceful loom]

right

[meager spade]

set the aicontrollers owner to the player controller

and thats it

[graceful loom]

I believe it is let me check

oof nope one sec

you son of a

you solved 4 days of problems for me

fixed my ability system and rpcs in one shot

[frank birch]

that sounds wrong...
if player owns the AI_Controller coudn't he fuck it up and mess with the AI?

[meager spade]

nope

we do it in TRS2

[graceful loom]

@meager spade where's your patreon you won a bounty

[frank birch]

can multiple players own the aicontroller? do you swap it? only one player owns it at a time? (like a master?)

[graceful loom]

multiple children one owner

now that I can go back to implementing gameplay I feel like I don't know what to do with myself

[vivid seal]

so im looking for some way to do basically struct inheritance for my ability system. I want to send parameters from the client to the server for the server to use in performing an ability. However, I know struct inheritance isn't a thing that's usable for blueprints, and dataassets aren't supposed to be written to, only read from. I basically just want a "FAbilityParam" struct that I can pass into the UseAbility RPC, and then I can subclass that FAbilityParam into different parameter types. On the server the ability can just cast the generic parameter struct into the subclass it actually uses.
How am I supposed to be doing this kind of thing?

right now my solution is just a generic struct with an enum variable (ParamType), a float variable, a uobject pointer variable, a gameplaytag variable, and a string variable. then if i wanted to send something like the target location I would make 3 of these structs, with param types of TargetX, TargetY, TargetZ, and the floats set to represent the X/Y/Z of a vector, and the other fields would just be empty. It feels super hacky and like I'm missing the "correct" way to do this.

[frank birch]

you want your RPC to recieve an ""abstract"" version of your struct and then parse it into the correct one?

I am not sure I am following the logic on paper 😬

[gilded vapor]

Anyone know if using root motion blendspaces is recommend/bad in network games?

[vivid seal]

@frank birch yeah basically. i want the option to send (through this RPC) a struct that could contain a vector, or it could contain a list of gameplay tags, or it contain a pointer to an actor, or whatever, but nothing actually needs to know what it contains besides the ability that receives it on the server. like if I had FAbilityVectorParam that inherited from FAbilityParam, I could just send it as an FAbilityParam to the server, and then the ability could cast it back to FAbilityVectorParam to use it for a target location or something, instead of having separate RPCs for every possible combination of parameters an ability might need to activate or something like that

i'm not sure how GAS does it

but i'd imagine they have some kind of system for passing arbitrary data to an ability when activating it

im explaining it poorly, but if you could pass an object over RPC it'd basically be like having an abstract class and then just passing different subclasses of that class depending on what you need. except when you pass objects by RPC you just pass pointers which wont work unless the object is already replicated

[ruby rock]

A simple question I hope. Is it possible to create a session without a player controller? What I'm hoping to do is to allow 5 players to "ready-up" in a lobby and then have the server create the session and then all can join it.

[frank birch]

I am coding exactly that. I have a lobby map, every player joins, sets up their stuff, servertravels with seamless travel, player states can send data forward (it's an event of playerstate, can't remember now), controllers can also be sent forward (in gamestate, an event called controllerswap).

Oh, I am on blueprints

[ruby rock]

Neat - so player state is not getting destroyed when swapping maps? (I thought it did)