#multiplayer | Unreal Source | Page 439

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 6:40 PM

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4.21 is available. However, I received it only by writing to user support. One of support staff guys gave me link. I can try to find it now

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Sent it to DM

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 6:51 PM

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https://allarsblog.com/2015/11/05/support-dedicated-servers/

Allar's Blog

How To Set Up Dedicated Servers for Windows and Linux For Your UE4...

This document covers the bare basics on how to get your Unreal Engine 4 game project able to build both Windows and Linux dedicated server builds, using just a Windows machine for compiling. Requirements For 4.9.X or older, you need Visual Studio Community Edition 2013 For 4.10

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so i read this tutorial

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and i think you just need to build one time the server

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and after you can just cook

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to get the content

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 7:58 PM

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anyone have experience with the advanced sessions plugin?

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:00 PM

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yeah i tried

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if you just using the advanced session just for the session

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with a dedicated is working

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but if you want to integrate steam api

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is crashing all the dedicated

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:07 PM

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The advanced session works for me in the editor but not when i package it

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its weird

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it used to but now it doesnt

lofty holly Jan 28, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Hey umm just

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wanted to ask if that plugin for steam works for someone without any issues in newest version of unreal

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

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I used it in 4.19

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didnt try 4.21 yet

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:34 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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i just cooked and windows server

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and this is the size

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the idea when you are cooking an windows server you don't

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need to build the engine from source i think

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and is working to connect

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this is saving a lot of time

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:36 PM

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wait what is the windows server

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is that just a project

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

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no is just an cooked version of the project

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is just the console

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

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oh its a console command

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

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no is the server

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just the console

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

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oh

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:37 PM

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without textures rendering

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this is the build

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📎 unknown.png

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with textures

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you can make a server with this of course

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but is opening the client with the game in the same time i tried

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but this is a server not a dedicated server

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:39 PM

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yeah how would you package the other thing

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:39 PM

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do you mean the server

bleak lily Jan 28, 2019, 8:40 PM

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yeah

twin juniper Jan 28, 2019, 8:40 PM

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wait

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https://allarsblog.com/2015/11/05/support-dedicated-servers/

Allar's Blog

How To Set Up Dedicated Servers for Windows and Linux For Your UE4...

This document covers the bare basics on how to get your Unreal Engine 4 game project able to build both Windows and Linux dedicated server builds, using just a Windows machine for compiling. Requirements For 4.9.X or older, you need Visual Studio Community Edition 2013 For 4.10

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i followed this tutorial

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is working with the advanced sessions btw

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i am going to try with the steam api

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inside

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 9:49 PM

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Have a problem with replicating motion controllers (HTC Vive) on dedicated server. So I have template VR BP project, motion controllers do replicate on manual move (add world offset), but don't when I launch it in packaged build. It seems like the whole tracking system doesn't work. Have anyone had the same problem?

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 10:23 PM

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Pretty sure VR tracking needs manual Replication

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 10:57 PM

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@thin stratus my approach uses manual replication. It has rep transform on every controller and writes it on owning client and then reads on others

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 10:58 PM

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Writes it on owning client?

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You are setting the variable locally on the owning client?

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@spiral saffron

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 10:59 PM

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Yes

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:00 PM

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Yeah that's wrong

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Replication only works from server to clients

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You have to send the data via a non-reliable rpc to the server

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And then set the variable

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:01 PM

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I mean that I call rpc run on server with parameter from owning client. Inside this rpc I set variable

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:01 PM

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That you didn't say though :P

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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It is about eleventh hour of trying c:

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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Are you making sure you skip the owner in that process

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Cause the owner already has the data of course

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:04 PM

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I have following check wether it is owner or not:

check if it is auth, if no then continue
compare player controller 0 with owner (when I spawn I set owner as owner of motion controller pawn)
if they are equal, then it is owning client, if no, then remote

winged badger Jan 28, 2019, 11:06 PM

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never use GetPlayerController[0] with dedicated servers on the server

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sorry, didn't read the whole thing, but really can't stress that enough

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM

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Well then your local tracking should work

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM

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Yep, I know player controllers' thing, but it looks safe here

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:07 PM

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Do you see the controller moving locally?

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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With vive - no, with add world offset - yes (and it is replicated that way)

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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Not sure why add world offset but yeah

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You should def see the local controllers move

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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just for check is it problem in mc or in me)

thin stratus Jan 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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Even if Replication doesnt work

spiral saffron Jan 28, 2019, 11:11 PM

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I heard that mordentral's plugin works great with network, also tried it with single. But it gives me error of finding "ShaderCore" module. This is another possible way, but "ShaderCore" doesn't google at all

peak patio Jan 29, 2019, 1:18 AM

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Hello, I have a small question about variable replication. Let say A is replicated and is set to 0 on the client AND the server.
If I set A to 1 on the client, and nothing change on the server, what can I do to make the server replicate A to force being 0 on the client(like, every second or so)?

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Multicast RPC is the only solution?

fossil spoke Jan 29, 2019, 1:34 AM

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@peak patio You can use a RepNotified Struct variable to force replication for that variable.

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Since the Server already sees the variable as 0 and you would need to change the value of it to force Replication, setting it to 0 again on the Server obviously will have no effect.

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You COULD use an Multicast RPC to force set the Clients version of it to 0 again.

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Or like i suggested you could bundle the variable into a Struct variable that is RepNotified. In RepNotify would be where you set the actual variable on the Client.

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The struct would contain 2 variables, the integer you want to actually have the value updated on the Client and then another integer you use to force the replication of the Struct which you would just increment basically whenever you want to force replication.

peak patio Jan 29, 2019, 1:37 AM

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Hum, I see... Ok thank you very much :) ! I'll try both approach (repnotified and multicast)

fossil spoke Jan 29, 2019, 1:38 AM

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Good luck 👍

peak patio Jan 29, 2019, 1:38 AM

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Thank you!

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 6:48 AM

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Does reloading the map fix floating point issues?

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When running long periods

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i hear that using ServerTravel with ?restart at the end does this?

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There's also a command "RestartLevel"

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:33 AM

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http://api.unrealengine.com/INT/BlueprintAPI/Game/RestartGame/index.html

Restart Game

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would this work?

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:34 AM

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RestartGame does the ServerTravel?Restart

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The ?Restart parameter just grabs the same map you are playing

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So you basically call ServerTravel <MapNameYouArePlaying> with that

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:34 AM

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Ah ok

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And will this fix floating point issues ?

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With net driver etc

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Would it restart the net driver?

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:35 AM

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I doubt it restarts the NetDriver

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Specially if you use SeamlessTravel

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:35 AM

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servertravel would though right?

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could you just do Open Map

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on the server?

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:36 AM

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OpenMap or OpenLevel won't move Clients

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ServerTravel moves clients.

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:36 AM

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That's fine

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I don't mind

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:36 AM

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Then just restart the process if you don't care about Clients

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:36 AM

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I just want something that refreshes the server without restarting the actual process

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:36 AM

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,>

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 7:37 AM

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What?

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It's inconvenient to restart the process, and I want to manage restarts inside the engine

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As it'll need to be restarted every 3-4 days

thin stratus Jan 29, 2019, 7:37 AM

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Then try open level, but I still don't think this will reset the netDriver

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Restarting a Process is basically just a cron job to kill the process and then start them again

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Or whatever other scheduler you want to use

plush wave Jan 29, 2019, 9:18 AM

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Is replicating an array bad practice? Or does UE4 do some of the heavy lifting and only replicate what changes on the array (not the entire thing every time it gets an element added).

weary saffron Jan 29, 2019, 9:27 AM

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Hi! I want to change in spectator when my character is died. How can this make?

winged badger Jan 29, 2019, 9:36 AM

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@plush wave it is if its larger, yes

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unreal will replicate the entire thing, but only if you add/insert/remove, it doesn't care for changes to elements themselves

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as an alternative i suggest giving NetSerialization.h header a read, its heavily commented explaining the alternative

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(unless you're BP only project, then you're out of luck)

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:53 AM

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@plush wave no

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generally replicating an array is not bad, but it depends what data is being replicated

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 10:40 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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i cooked a server

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and i find that is a dedicated and an server

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but i don't think that i understand that correctly

craggy oxide Jan 29, 2019, 12:42 PM

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anyone else using the Oculus OSS and experiencing issues with client travel in 4.21?

hot ridge Jan 29, 2019, 3:18 PM

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I know there's no simple answer to this but just wondering if there are things I should be looking at:

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My server player sees the client as choppy, but my client has no issues looking at server (server shows as smooth movement)

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Is there something I should set to give the client player higher priority over other objects in the scene? should I scale back some of my replicated objects/etc?

spiral saffron Jan 29, 2019, 3:21 PM

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Yeah! I've bet MotionController Component replication 😄 What I've done:

disable auto activate on MC
GetValidTrackedDeviceIDs + GetTrackedDevicePositionAndOrientation
put data from 2 to my replication method
changed setting location of MC instead of whole actor (maybe it is not needed)
Now I'm curios, whether tracked device ids use ids relatively to tracking cameras or relatively to client's machine. Does anyone know?

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Does this command only work for meshes that are owned by the local client? https://gyazo.com/ec1e11757a0c31b8c0cfed7c22aa1f8b

Gyazo

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because for some reason this transform is applied only on the client that owns the mesh...

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yes, this is called out of a multicast on all clients

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I've spent a WHOLE DAY just to try to see how to make a player SIT on a BENCH, in MP

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😃

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 7:01 PM

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for a weapon that regenerates its ammo over time and it fires instantly on client and uses and consumes ammo on client, then tells server the weapon has fired and what not to keep things nice and smooth...

there exists a scenario where if your ping is higher then the weapon firerate the server can possibly replicate an ammo update right after you fire the weapon. causing the client to think that they can fire the weapon twice but they cannot.

the picture explains what i mean, for the video im spamming the fire button, notice Two projectiles fire off, but on the server there is only enough energy for One. i then traverse upwards and fire this time without spamming mouse button, simulating what is supposed to happen, but take note of the energy bar (the yellow one)

any ideas? should i just not replicate energy at all and depend on the simulation accuracy of it all... ??? 😦

📎 replicationdesyncproblem.png

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📎 2019-01-29_13-49-17.mp4

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@raven holly is your game full bp?

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 7:19 PM

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Hopefully some kind soul can help here. I'm trying to make a player SIT on a GONDOLA BENCH in MP. I'm detaching the mesh component and attaching it to a Gondola, in this way (this is run on every client with a multicast, GONDOLA is set on every client)
https://gyazo.com/fa0d9ab4ff62e55a68a68a90b28a9c0c

Gyazo

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I then need to put the mesh in the correct position of the chair, so I move it:
https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/ec1e11757a0c31b8c0cfed7c22aa1f8b-png.jpg

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For SOME REASON that I don't understand, this works only on some occasions that I've yet to determine, i.e. it's completely random: sometimes it's like the SetRelativeTransform wasn't even called.

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any ideas...? I've been on this for hours

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 7:47 PM

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the multicast rpc is firing off for everything properly ?

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or its just mesh attachment issue ?

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 7:55 PM

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yes it fires

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even weirder

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if i have only 1 client and 1 server, it works only if the server gets on board

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if i have 2 clients and 1 server, all works

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 8:09 PM

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what about repnotify for this? instead of multicast rpc

spiral saffron Jan 29, 2019, 8:09 PM

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As I know, owning is compulsory for replicating from client to server. If you replicate from server to client, owning is not needed

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 8:09 PM

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have like the client tell the server to set a repnotify variable to the bench and the OnRep for the bench just sets the relativetransform

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SeatedInThisChair ???

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 8:18 PM

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hi, when variable changes on client it does not change on server ,.. could someone help ? i

spiral saffron Jan 29, 2019, 8:20 PM

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@foggy hedge Replication works from server to client. You have to make variable replicated and then
change it on server

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 8:20 PM

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it s replicated in game state, but i cast from actor to game state to change it on overlap

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@spiral saffron

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i guess this way is wrong ?

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@spiral saffron i have also tried to make custom event (run on server) but it did not wort either

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:24 PM

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my issue has nothing to do with multicasting since it is properly fired

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it has to do with properly detaching the character mesh and attach it to the bench socket

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unfortunately there seem to be some quirks going on with the movement component

twin juniper Jan 29, 2019, 8:26 PM

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what happens if you call attach without detach ?

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:26 PM

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same thing

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:30 PM

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@ember needle why are your detatching and attaching the mesh

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you would attach the actor to the godola

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not the mesh component

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:31 PM

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the reason is that the movement component interferes with the positioning of the mesh once in MP

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:31 PM

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disable movement

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:31 PM

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so @past bear suggested to do that

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that’s what i do...

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:31 PM

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hmm like i said you can disable movement component

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whilst on the gondola

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and reneable it

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:32 PM

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yes i already do that

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:32 PM

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when you detach the mesh and attach you mess up the CMC so its not advisable

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:32 PM

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i don’t know it’s just a series of things that are difficult to find the correct sequence

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i see

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:32 PM

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right but i have achieved what you are trying to do

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so i know how and what to do

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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awesome

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does your bench move?

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(gondola)

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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its a ski lift

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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in mp

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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so same principle right?

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it goes up a spline

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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absolutely

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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yeah in MP

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:33 PM

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ok so the order is:

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set actor in position

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disable collision

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disable movement on component

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:34 PM

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let me load a empty project

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and ill show you it working in simple fasion

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fashion*

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:34 PM

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thank you so much!

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it’s the attach part that i can’t make work

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:35 PM

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yeah

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:35 PM

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attachactorto didn’t work

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:35 PM

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mine is quite intergrated so i would rather show you a simple version

ember needle Jan 29, 2019, 8:36 PM

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my actor would end up in negative Z for some reason and hence get killed

meager spade Jan 29, 2019, 8:37 PM

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yeah cause of the way your handling it probably

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the gondola is moving the mesh but the actor is staying put and cause collisions are disabled on capsule, it falls through the floor

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 8:45 PM

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@twin juniper mostly bp

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@thin stratus I checked UDN and loadmap does destroy the netdriver and create a new one

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Also servertravel does too

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Just so you know 😃

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:19 PM

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variable from player controller is valid for server but not for client... does someone know the reason.. ?

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:20 PM

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replicate it

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:21 PM

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@raven holly do you mean to make variable replicated ? on variables details

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i ve already done it but it doesn t work

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:23 PM

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Are you replicating it to the owning client?

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Player controller only exists on the players client & server, not other players

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:24 PM

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so should i change replication condition also ?

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@raven holly cos it s none now..

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:26 PM

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on the variable?

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change it to replicated

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:28 PM

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yes i ve changed it

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@raven holly this var

📎 repl.png

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:33 PM

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uh thats not how you do that

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:33 PM

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@raven holly i get this var to client directly from player controller but in these custom event it s still invalid

raven holly Jan 29, 2019, 9:33 PM

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You should really watch some tuts on this

foggy hedge Jan 29, 2019, 9:33 PM

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i m new in multiplayer so i dont know much ((

spiral saffron Jan 29, 2019, 10:16 PM

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I've made a short mind map on replication. If someone would take a look and gave me some comments in DM like "it is good" or "you've missed some crucial concept", I'd be grateful. It is not complete, though, there is no info on relevancy and conditional replication
https://drive.google.com/file/d/198WXTO7fUoT_H24pxcc0s1m9vw_tHlbv/view?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Unreal replication

ocean arrow Jan 30, 2019, 1:31 AM

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Good people of the high council, I seek advice!

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I am developing a super smash style fighter and wish to outsource the movement system do hat it may be flawless. How foolish would it be to do this and then attempt to retrofit the movement system to work online?

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so that*

hasty adder Jan 30, 2019, 1:40 AM

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so wierd question, I have a UMG component on all players which is set to not active, I want it to go active when that player picks up an item to add one more peice of complexity to this it needs to retrigger when they come on screen I feel like this is best placed in a onrep for the item because there is a bool associated with this item when someone has posession of it.

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the context of its usage is it generates a target on the character and it animates in on them as a offscreen marker to better help the player know who is the target

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my trouble is not sure how you pass this right on the character so it makes this activate correctly.

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actually might have figured it out

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nope nevermind

grand kestrel Jan 30, 2019, 5:57 AM

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@lament cloak GetTearOff()

white fable Jan 30, 2019, 1:10 PM

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Could anyone give me some advice on the best approach for debugging and stepping through multiple clients connecting to a listen server, with Visual Studio debugger attached. Specifically, what are the limitations for PIE here?
Right now, I'm seeing inconsistent results when searching for and creating sessions. I've got Single Process checked and Auto Connect unchecked, which seemed right but I can only seem to find sessions when in standalone. Thanks

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:14 PM

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PIE basically doesn't do sessions

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You're correct that it will only work in standalone

white fable Jan 30, 2019, 1:26 PM

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Thanks. So in essence hitting a breakpoint in VS isn't possible when testing multiplayer, or is there another way?

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:29 PM

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Of course it is

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PIE is unrelated to Visual

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However, you'll need separate instances of Visual

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:35 PM

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https://forums.unrealengine.com/development-discussion/content-creation/23921-mmo-starter-kit
Anyone tried this ?

Unreal Engine Forums

MMO Starter Kit is available for purchase on Sellfy (https://sellfy.com/p/fo6a/)!
Online documentation for version 1.16 (UE 4.21.0) (https://docs.google.com/documen

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:38 PM

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I haven’t tried it but I just can’t imagine how it would possibly be of any use unless you were trying to build the exact game the creator of the plug-in had in mind

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I would never try a cookie cutter solution for something as complex as an mmo

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I’ve been developing my own sort of micro mmo in ue4 for 5-6 months now and each piece really needs to be custom tailored to your specific game

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:40 PM

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Yeah i can imagine the template will only get you that far before you need to start customizing

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and this is probably how far it goes. Doesnt seem to be tested with alot of players either

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I mean, 10+ isnt noteworthy

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:41 PM

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You’re going to have to customize almost everything, so why bother starting with someone else’s work that you’ll need to completely retrofit

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Apparently tried with 140 players

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Which is a lot more than any small indie will really get

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:42 PM

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Without any sort of third party server middleware, I don’t see how anything other than a zone based MMO is currently possible with ue4

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Zone based being each level/map is its own dedicated server

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And having a cap of say 150ppl

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That’s what I am currently building and prototyping on. I don’t see any reason why more than 150ppl would need to be in one area at once so if you can build a big enough world and spread that across 50+ zones, you have MMO numbers of concurrent players

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:44 PM

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140 ppl -> 400kB/s doesnt sound so bad tho

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:45 PM

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To be honest, instanced MMOs work well and are popular on their own. Aiming for even a few dozen players max is pretty rational because the tech is much simpler, it scales much better, doesn't feel as empty if your game isn't a best seller, etc.

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:45 PM

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You would still need to find solutions for things like cross server chat though since as far as I know there is no good built in way for ue4 servers to directly communicate with each other

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Yeah I mean I think most people immediately jump to the notion that 150ppl isn’t an MMO, but I’ve played many of them since the late 90s and it’s very rare to ever need to accommodate that many people in one specific area. The goal is to try and spread people out as much as possible. Different starting cities, etc

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:49 PM

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In WoW, there must've been a few hundred in the big cities

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and it lagged like crazy every time..

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Sure people complained, but it didnt really break the game since it was only a few areas that struggled with it

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:49 PM

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Right. That’s when you may need to think about splitting a city into 2 zones, north and south say

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It obviously isn’t ideal but it’s one way to handle that

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:50 PM

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You could also instance it

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but not very cool if you're looking for your bud and cant find him

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:50 PM

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I don’t know if I would Instance a city

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:50 PM

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not the city, but the visible players

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bulked them

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:50 PM

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Ahh

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Maybe. I’m trying to design what I’m making with little to no instancing if possible as I think it really breaks immersion

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:51 PM

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Agreed

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I was disappointed with FFXIV with instanced houses

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I liked how Archage had none-instanced housing areas. Keeps up the immersion, imo

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:52 PM

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The biggest issue with 150 player is that less than 1000 games on Steam have that player count, and those who do sold literally hundreds of thousand copies

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So unless you've got a large publisher behind you, I wouldn't base the game on that

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:52 PM

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Its more on a theoretical level for me

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I know for sure im not gonna make an MMO,

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:53 PM

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Yeah, kind of a future-proofing

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:53 PM

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well atleast have a plan ready i guess

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

Our all-time peak from launch day is 97, so there's that

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

You got an MMO?

#

or rather MO * 😛

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

Nope, SP game.

#

Working on a MP game now, but with three players teams.

#

Basically making sure the game is viable if it doesn't sell 100,000 copies

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

what did you mean with 97 all time high then ?

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

Concurrent players

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

Didnt know that were tracked in SP games

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

https://steamcharts.com 😃

Steam Charts - Tracking What's Played

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

there we go

#

was just about to mention it 😛

#

3,2 mill players. that would be... alot of servers

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

My advice for sizing an MP game would be to look at the minimum online player count a few months after launch for games that sell as much as you can estimate

#

Considering median sales on Steam today are in the low thousands

#

(concurrent players in the low single digits)

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

Steam really needs to do a better job at curating

#

There is just so much garbage

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

Conan exiles. 4k

#

thats less than expected

#

heard so much great stuff about it

#

so expected a few 100k

#

clearly im way out of realistic range 😂

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

90% of Steam games have less than 10 online players right now

#

97% less than 100

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

insane

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

98-99% less than 1000

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

monster hunter 65k ...

#

42k average

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Which is why I'm extremely skeptical of any online-only indie game - I think that's just asking for dead servers and pissed off players

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

WoW needs a replacer tho

#

so the MMO market should open up big when it dies ..

#

atleast i'd expect that..

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

The basic challenge MMOs face is player count

#

Especially over time

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

📎 world_of_warcraft_subs.png

#

the only mmo in history with these numbers

#

over such a long time

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

Now divide by 1000

#

And it's still more than even hugely successful indies can pull

#

Like, Dead Cells has 3000 online players now

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

its kinda crushing to see the actual numbers

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

And it's one of the few million-unit indies

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

but as mentioned, i think it will open up when WoW dies

#

unless someone makes something amazing again,

#

which by todays standard is pretty impossible 😛

#

atleast for indie

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

There are a bunch of smaller and Kickstarter MMOs in the works but most of them look like flops

#

Or vaporware

stone sentinel Jan 30, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

Hi guys,

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

FF14, 8k average

#

its nothing...

#

well .. "nothing"...

#

i'd be very happy with it , but not if i were SE 😛

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

I think that’s just on steam, they have a stand-alone client as well

#

FF14 had over 10 million subscribers a year or so ago

#

Not sure now but they aren’t hurting for players

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

You're comparing subscribers vs online players 😉

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

So was WoW tho btw.

jade gazelle Jan 30, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

Well if I’m the developer I don’t care about concurrent players, I care about people paying the monthly fee haha

#

Less concurrent players is less server cost

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

yepp

#

but

#

a drop in concurrent

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

Concurrent players is what you design your game for

hoary spear Jan 30, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

would suggest a drop in subscribers

#

so it would signal that your game is going in the wrong direction

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

WoW couldn't work with 1000 concurrent players, plainly put

stone sentinel Jan 30, 2019, 2:12 PM

#

Hi guys,
I am having an issue with my multiplayer game.
I am using Advanced Locomotion System which is sending client data to server relatives to location and rotation.
I now am sending player's AIM from the client to server so that it can shoot properly to the target I am aiming to.
When I call this RPC function (that has only a FVector as argument) my player starts to desync and I receive a log message that says <LogNetPlayerMovement: Warning: CreateSavedMove: Hit limit of 96 saved moves (timing out or very bad ping?)>
Any suggestion on how to solve this problem or where to look for?

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

Limit the rate at which clients send movement updates to the server. Prevents clients running at high framerates from causing excessive load on the server. (Shipped with 4.17)

#

Does anyone know where this code is? Been looking through CMC and haven't found it yet

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

Isn't that higher level ?

#

AActor has plenty of replication rate settings

#

So I guess it went there

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

Ah it could be, I'm really interested in finding the commit/code

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:30 PM

#

Though "movement updates" might really be CMC 🤔

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:30 PM

#

Right, that's why I assumed it was CMC

#

I guess looking through perforce would be easier. The github Fortnite commits are kind of a nightmare to look through

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:34 PM

#

Yeah

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

But that statement doesn't really seem to be correct.
When I test with Fortnite I'm getting these overall numbers

30 fps locked: up rates between 2 - 3 KB/s and down rates between 2-3 KB/s
80-100fps: up rates between 2-5 KB/s and down rates between 2-4 KB/s
160 - 190fps: up rates between 5-11 KB/s and down rates between 5-10 KB/s

#

And I'm assuming a lot of that is movement data

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

Client framerate ?

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

yes

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

Maybe they're talking about something truly excessive

#

Like it used to be 100KB instead

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

Yeah I guess they could have just improved it

stone sentinel Jan 30, 2019, 2:38 PM

#

I am using 13,2kb per second

#

90 fps

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:38 PM

#

oh wow okay

dusky flower Jan 30, 2019, 2:38 PM

#

relevancy would play a role in bandwidth wouldnt it

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

yeah we are seeing 15 KB up/down in our game and were worried about that

stone sentinel Jan 30, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

is it too much?

dusky flower Jan 30, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Gameplay/Networking/Actors/Relevancy

#

" A significant bandwidth optimization in Unreal's network code is that the server only tells clients about Actors in that client's relevant set."

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

15kb up is very fine

#

I would worry at 10 times that

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:41 PM

#

We were just comparing it to PUBG, Fortnite, and UT and it is higher. I guess PUBG and Fortnite are different types of games that can take advantage of relevancy though. Ours is a arena based shooter like UT

west star Jan 30, 2019, 2:42 PM

#

@jolly siren how many clients/actors with updates? For just a couple of characters and no other updated actors, 15kb is a bit high but shouldn't be an issue.

#

Different engine but csgo is max ~100-150kb for 128Hz

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

We were seeing those numbers with one server and one client. But we have also seen less with more characters. It seems to be inconsistent. I'm still going through footage and looking at the numbers.

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 2:46 PM

#

Isn't CS quite more fast paced though ?

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

We cap fps at 240 and you have to get pretty close to that mark to run into the 15KB

#

I'm doing general network optimizations right now. But I'm still interested in where Limit the rate at which clients send movement updates to the server. Prevents clients running at high framerates from causing excessive load on the server. (Shipped with 4.17) this was changed.

dusky flower Jan 30, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

i wouldnt do premature optimization, especially if there are inconsistencies

#

i think optimum packet size is 1500bytes per tick

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

You are right. It is consistent if you are running near 240fps regardless of how many clients there are.

dusky flower Jan 30, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

so it scales correctly

#

1.5kb * (server ticks/second aka hz) should be optimum for a client connection, i forget how it scales though

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

One thing I noticed in UT is they have their own replicated movement code. FRepUTMovement https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealTournament/blob/clean-master/UnrealTournament/Source/UnrealTournament/Public/UTCharacter.h#L22

dusky flower Jan 30, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

"/** Replicated movement data of our RootComponent.

More efficient than engine's FRepMovement
*/"

#

haha

west star Jan 30, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

@jolly siren any chance it is referring to the NetUpdateFrequency code?

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

I think that has been in the engine for a long time

#

This says it was a 4.17 change

#

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/tech-blog/unreal-engine-improvements-for-fortnite-battle-royale

Unreal Engine

Unreal Engine Improvements for Fortnite: Battle Royale

In the course of developing the Battle Royale game mode we’ve made many performance, memory, and workflow optimizations that not only benefit Fortnite: Battle Royale but every developer using Unreal Engine 4.

#

Separate topic, so FNames are sent over the network as strings? I've always heard that we should use FName for replicating. That is a common misconception then.

#

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/97168/fnames-under-the-hood-epic.html

twin juniper Jan 30, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

yo guys

#

i compiled a server

#

without the source version

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

@jolly siren Yeah they are. I believe they can be sent by ID but only if you can garauntee they exist on all clients. Gameplay Tags do some custom serialization for that when a certain flag is checked.

#

That said, FName is still cheaper than an FString and FText for replication IIRC

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

That thread says FName is sent as FString

#

That is the misconception I was talking about. Whether FName is cheaper for replication than FString

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

Ah roger. In that case then, I'm not sure.

severe widget Jan 30, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

Fnames for which an EName exist i think are the ones replicated by ID right?

hot robin Jan 30, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

i was reading into multiplayer and on how to make a Dedicated Server. Unreal Engine uses the Default Port of 7777. Here is my Question what if i want to run multiple servers on one Server so that if u look into the Server List for example u could see US1 US2 US3 ... so to achive this i need multiple Servers running or is it done by multiple game instances? and is the max players (64 if not edited) bound to the instance or do i completly missunderstand the whole thing?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

For GameplayTags at least, they are serialized by a uint32 index IIRC

#

But only if usingFastReplication

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

I'm running into an issue when I run from editor. It seems like only one player is getting a player controller. I'm not sure what suddenly caused it to not spawn playerControllers for each player

#

Any ideas?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

{
    if (PackageMap)
    {
        PackageMap->SerializeName(*this, N);
    }
    else
    {
        UPackageMap::StaticSerializeName(*this, N);
    }

    return *this;
}```

#

@jolly siren have a look at PackageMap::StaticSerializeName()

#

It looks as though if the name is hardcoded, it replicates via index, otherwise it is replicated as a string.

#

Also uses one extra bit to serialize whether the name is hardcoded or not

#

then again... #define MAX_NETWORKED_HARDCODED_NAME 410

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

okay, yeah I'm not talking about hardcoded names

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

for names that are created on the fly they are replicated as a string it seems

#

            FString OutString = InName.GetPlainNameString();
            int32 OutNumber = InName.GetNumber();
            Ar << OutString << OutNumber;```

#

Looks to me like they're actually more expensive than strings, since they send the name ID as well

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

Myth is busted then 🙌

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

uint8 bHardcoded = InName.GetComparisonIndex() <= MAX_NETWORKED_HARDCODED_NAME;

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

Quality variable name

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

I guess cheaper FName replication is possible.. but only if you do a bit of background work to support it

#

haha

#

Well that was a rabbit hole I didn't expect to go down 😛

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

How about GUIDs ?

#

Since you're down the hole now

#

Might want to bring that particular rabbit back too :3

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

Funnilly enough I looked at that a few weeks ago.. I was really hoping that net GUID would be identical on all connections

#

Turns out it isn't 😦

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

No I mean replicated FGuid types

#

We used FName extensively for Helium Rain to identify all parts, and I'm using FGuid now for part identifiers, so I need to replicate that

#

Wondering if it's expensive

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:49 PM

#

It doesn't look as though FNetBitReader / FNetBitWriter has an override for FGUID

#

Must just serialize as 128bits 😢

#

Also.. adding MP to Helium Rain? Sweet 😄

#

It makes you wonder though.. FString is just a TArray<uint8> right?

#

In shipping.. you'd think with the reduced character set of FNames they could make that smaller

#

But that'd probably involve some really crafting packing or compression I guess

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

yeah, I'm interested in string compression for sure. I'm surprised they don't have something setup for it already.

#

The other possible misconception I was looking at is whether or not uint8 : 1 is actually necessary for replicated bools to automatically pack. Or if there is code to automatically bit pack multiple replicated bool in the same class. I ran into this https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/541121/does-replication-treat-bitfields-as-they-are.html
But I'm actually not sure what UBoolProperty is. Reminds me of Java.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

I think there's some horrible legacy code that exists for bools IIRC

#

But I've got so used to using bitfields for bools nowadays.

#

or overriding NetSerialize() altogether

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:55 PM

#

Anyone know why play in editor would only spawn one playerController when running with multiple players?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

@bleak cloud on clients or server?

#

Server has all PC's, client only has their own

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

clients

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

Yeah, that'll be why

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

Seemed to be working fine for me last night

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

Controllers don't replicate to other clients

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

Right

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

Only the client which owns them

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

So only the one would show in the world outliner?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

Yeah certainly if the editor is playing as the client (would be the case if using dedicated server)

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

Not using dedicated server atm.

#

Whats really odd is how the working player doesn't move on the bugged players screen, and when the working player shoots, the projectiles show for the bugged player but don't move. At the same time, enemies spawned are moving and working as they should

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:00 PM

#

welcome 😄

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 4:00 PM

#

Do you actually have to do the bit packing/unpacking yourself for them? Or do you just throw uint8:1 there and it is taking care of? I've never seen a complete answer on how to use them.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:01 PM

#

I believe uint8:1; sends as packed, but only if uint8:1;s are all declared in the header one after the other

#

I can't remember where I got that info mind you

#

But e.g. if you have
uint8 SomeBool : 1; float Somefloat uint8 SomeBOol2 :1;

#

That will use two bytes, one for each

#

But if declared in one contiguous block they are packed IIRC

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 4:02 PM

#

oh wow I've never heard that before

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:02 PM

#

I think it could be a compile-time thing maybe

#

But I'm not 100% so take that with a pinch of salt

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 4:03 PM

#

Yeah that sounds strange to me

#

This is from ShooterGame

    /** current targeting state */
    UPROPERTY(Transient, Replicated)
    uint8 bIsTargeting : 1;

    /** modifier for max movement speed */
    UPROPERTY(EditDefaultsOnly, Category = Pawn)
    float RunningSpeedModifier;

    /** current running state */
    UPROPERTY(Transient, Replicated)
    uint8 bWantsToRun : 1;

    /** from gamepad running is toggled */
    uint8 bWantsToRunToggled : 1;

    /** current firing state */
    uint8 bWantsToFire : 1;

#

Seems like Epic would know about it, if that was the case

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

I think you can see that in FHitResult::NetSerialize() in Collision.cpp.

uint8 Flags = (bBlockingHit << 0) | (bStartPenetrating << 1) | (bImpactPointEqualsLocation << 2) | (bImpactNormalEqualsNormal << 3) | (bInvalidItem << 4) | (bInvalidFaceIndex << 5) | (bNoPenetrationDepth << 6);
    Ar.SerializeBits(&Flags, 7); 
    bBlockingHit = (Flags & (1 << 0)) ? 1 : 0;
    bStartPenetrating = (Flags & (1 << 1)) ? 1 : 0;
    bImpactPointEqualsLocation = (Flags & (1 << 2)) ? 1 : 0;
    bImpactNormalEqualsNormal = (Flags & (1 << 3)) ? 1 : 0;
    bInvalidItem = (Flags & (1 << 4)) ? 1 : 0;
    bInvalidFaceIndex = (Flags & (1 << 5)) ? 1 : 0;
    bNoPenetrationDepth = (Flags & (1 << 6)) ? 1 : 0;

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

Ah that's interesting

#

Perhaps bools are serialized as bytes then

#

ouch

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

Those were actually uint8.

#

UPROPERTY()
    uint8 bBlockingHit:1;

bitter oriole Jan 30, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

@chrome bay No we're not adding MP to that 😛 Thanks for confirming the 128b serializing...

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

So we have to manually pack them in NetSerialize?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

Ah it looks like some of those flags are only relevant for NetSerialize, that's probably why

#

{
    // Most of the time the vectors are the same values, use that as an optimization
    bool bImpactPointEqualsLocation = 0, bImpactNormalEqualsNormal = 0;
    // Often times the indexes are invalid, use that as an optimization
    bool bInvalidItem = 0, bInvalidFaceIndex = 0, bNoPenetrationDepth = 0;```

#

Looks like they only pack manually there for packing purposes

#

@bitter oriole maybe use gameplay tags for categories instead 😛

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

I mean does declaring a replicated variable as uint8 : 1even do anything by itself? Or do we have to manually override NetSerialize for every class that has them and pack them ourselves before sending to get the optimization vs declaring as bool?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

@jolly siren I think uint8:1; will be packed automagically

#

Though I can't find anyway to find out, aside from putting together a quick test case

#

But assuming that the uint8:1's are all in a bitfield at compile time, and assuming FArchive serializes based on sizeof() - you can probably assume they are packed

#

but then again we're in UE4 world.. never assume anything 😄

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/541121/does-replication-treat-bitfields-as-they-are.html

severe widget Jan 30, 2019, 4:18 PM

#

I was gonna dive through source but that seems like an accurate answer.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:33 PM

#

Yeah that makes sense

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:34 PM

#

@chrome bay Seems like clients aren't replicating for some reason? They can't move, but if they fire, it's creating projectiles on the server that are working properly

#

but they don't move or work on the client

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:35 PM

#

To be honest it's impossible to say why without having the project in front of you.

#

But if client and server are talking, stuff is going on.

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:36 PM

#

Any suggestions on how I should go about debugging this?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:36 PM

#

Are you using characters RE movement?

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:37 PM

#

Yep

#

It was all working last night, I'm wondering if somehow a config changed somewhere is messing with things

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:38 PM

#

Possibly. Characters support movement etc. and all the fancy gubbins out of the box - so something more sinister is at play

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:39 PM

#

I've been disconnecting things in game mode, player controller, and characters. They're stripped pretty bare at this point and it's still having the same issue.

#

Are there better alternatives to testing MP than running from editor?

#

or will I have to build and run

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 4:40 PM

#

Editor can be messy at times but usually not for stuff that simple. If you're working from BP it can be more difficult since a lot of the netcode isn't exposed so can be hard to track issues down.

#

But at the very least, I would first make sure you can get players just spawning as characters and running around

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:46 PM

#

Really regretting not setting up my source control last night 😅

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:48 PM

#

Can they move in singleplayer?

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

Yep. The player that is the listen server is working properly

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

How are you handling movement?

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

If I turn off autoconnecting, they both work properly

#

I'm assuming easier if I just take a screen?

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:52 PM

#

Yup.

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 4:55 PM

#

https://imgur.com/a/8nOD7Pp

Imgur

#

This was working last night and shouldn't have had any changes, so I don't think this is the problem.

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

My last guess is to check your "MoveForward" and "MoveRight" inputs in Project Settings > Input.

#

Also, maybe check if GetControlledPawn() is not returning nullptr.

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

If that was the case, I don't think they'd work for the server either, right?

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Oh, then check ControlledPawn.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

One thing I would check, is to see if those input functions are being called Server side too

#

The GetControlledPawn() check would pass on both Server and Local client, so they'd both be adding movement input

#

Whereas you only wanna be doing that on the client

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Any reason why this would have been working last night?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

It would still be adding zero on the Server, but nevetherless it might be confusing things

#

No idea - though in general I would recommend handling pawn-related input in the pawn itself, rather than passing through the controller

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

That would mean moving the AddMovementInputs into the pawn, right? But you'd still run the InputAxis events through the player controller?

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

AddMovementInput and the input Axis events would be in the pawn

#

(Pawns can receive input directly)

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

I thought playercontroller was meant to handle user input

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

Just as an example, I have both vehicle and character pawns in one of my projects - they both need to handle input differently

#

Not neccesarily

#

If anything I find it cleaner to do it through the pawn

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

Gotcha.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

There might be a few exceptions but in general UE templates do that too

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

Kk. I'll work on switching that around.

#

Are there any weird client config settings that could be doing this somehow?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

i tested that

#

whoops delayed

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

Adding content to a project shouldn't change any configurations or anything right? Should just add the assets?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

@chrome bay i actually did a test with packing

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

@bleak cloud if it's marketplace content, it might do.

#

@meager spade What was the result? I'm intriguid...

#

(but spelt right)

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

https://gyazo.com/215fe6fa107c9ed2275ce0831bbc4bd6

Gyazo

#

same amount of bools

#

but putting say a float inside the packed bools struct

#

and breaking up the packing

#

https://gyazo.com/74bc5e46efbe8bd63a9661107deeacab

Gyazo

#

so they have to be continuous to be packed

#

wait

#

no it will still pack

#

nope i was correct first time

#

so what it does, is it will pack the first set of bools, then if it finds no more, end of pack, then if it does find more, it will pack them but in a different pack

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

Marketplace content can change a project's settings when it's imported?

bleak cloud Jan 30, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

I'm testing it right now so I'll let ya know ¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Last thing I did before it stopped working was add some marketplace content to the project

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

#

no floss farming

#

marketplace content is not allowed to adjust settings

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

Oh, cool.

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

Ah so it is true. Thanks @meager spade !

#

also @jolly siren

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:32 PM

#

Does that only pertain to structs? Or classes as well?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:33 PM

#

classes aswell

worthy perch Jan 30, 2019, 5:33 PM

#

Do you have to implement NetSerialize for structs?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:33 PM

#

@worthy perch only if you want to serialize your struct manually

#

@jolly siren https://gyazo.com/265ed2e463d3f39967d5a991bf2ea588

Gyazo

#

packed bools

#

packed bools with a float inbetween them: https://gyazo.com/313a05cfa90c34078844525c2383906c

Gyazo

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

#

What about using bool instead of the packed uint? Curious if it automatically packs with just bool

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

#

https://gyazo.com/a0f1c8534b1f43ccb415f243a5f40cd8

Gyazo

#

non packed bools with a float

chrome bay Jan 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

#

NetSerialize can be more expensive anyway in some cases. A struct with NetSerialize will send all data each time, without it, RepLayout will only send changed properties.

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

#

so 8 for bool, 4 for the float

#

https://gyazo.com/a339249f3fb951b0693c4e4c88609b6d

Gyazo

#

packed bools with a float at the end

#

so packing works only in continuous use, if you break up the pack, it negates all purpose

#

so like ```
uint8 mybool : 1;
uint8 mybool2 : 1;
float something;
uint8 mybool3 : 1;

#

will actually increase usage cost

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

💩

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

because you end up with 2 uint8

#

which is bigger than the 3 bools combined

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

That makes sense

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

so only pack if you know your going to benefit from it

#

uint32 if you have a lot of bools 😄

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

Thanks for clearing that all up 😃

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

np i actually did that a while back cause i wanted to find out for myself

#

i think uint8 is only 1 byte so whilst you may not increase usage per say, you are negating the point in using it

#

different with uint32 as that is 4 bytes, and you will be increasing usage

#

just for clarficiation

#

like ```
uint8 mybool : 1;
float a;
uint8 mybool : 1;

#

float b;
bool c;````

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

yeah that makes sense. I normally use uint8. But I get why you would use uint32 if you have a ton of bools.

#

2?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

typo

jolly siren Jan 30, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

okay thought so 😃

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

but if you have like 9 bools

#

uint32 can pack them nicely into 4 bytes

calm plaza Jan 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

Steam OSS LAN session connection is timing out. Outside of firewall and port problems, where should I look to solve this?

meager spade Jan 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

uint16 is also a option as that is 2 bytes wide

#

fyi 😄

tropic fjord Jan 30, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

Has anyone ever had the issue where they've source-built a dedicated server and the player isn't jumping to the server on BeginPlay?

#

Can't figure out what's up

tropic fjord Jan 30, 2019, 8:18 PM

#

I'm just loading into my EntryMap and keep falling for some reason

tropic fjord Jan 30, 2019, 9:13 PM

#

Legit don't understand why this is going on, tbh

flint plover Jan 30, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

Anyone here ever constrained the camera to a plane? Been looking but cant find a solid answer. got a top down ship thats constrained along the Y, so he can only go left and right along X and up and down along Z. everything works fine with movement, but im trying to get the camera to just go up or down along the Z axis and ignore the players movement on the X so that the player can get to the edge of the screen (think galaga but with the ability to move the screen up or down)

#

I almost want to fake it with a follow camera that has a movement component added in, then constrain that on Y and X, and some how pass along the players position to the BP. Would that require me to spawn the camera actor with the player and then set the follow camera as the active one?

bleak lily Jan 30, 2019, 11:01 PM

#

My server browser is super bugged out right now it works in the editor but not when I package it and also sometimes when I package it I can see a thing where it says that the server has 0 players 9999 ping and I cant join that

#

its super weird

viscid dagger Jan 31, 2019, 7:21 AM

#

Just going through some networking stuff at the moment with UE4. I understand that client travel allows the client to connect to either another server or another map on the same server. In a design that I've been creating, I want each player to be dispersed to separate maps and after completing certain objectives, be able to visit maps that other clients reside in, however I could accomplish something akin to this by having a large map with smaller maps within it and just teleport players between segments of the larger map.
Extremely noobish question, but is there a performance boost on the server or client for having separate maps vs having a large map with smaller subsections? What advantages/disadvantages do these approaches have? I'm fairly new to the networking thing so I'm not certain as to what the best approach would be here. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

winged badger Jan 31, 2019, 8:23 AM

#

Unreal doesn't like people trying to open multiple maps at the same time

#

And you would have to do it on server, if you wanted several smaller maps approach

#

So you are stuck with 1 map for this

#

Look into level streaming though, not all clients need to have all sublevels loaded at all times

viscid dagger Jan 31, 2019, 8:25 AM

#

Thanks for the response. I figured if each client shouldn

#

shouldn't have a map, I'd have to go with level streamiing

#

streaming*

#

I'll just have to be smart with loading objects I suppose. Is there any reason why unreal doesn't like people being on multiple maps? Does the architecture not support it properly?

twin juniper Jan 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

Hi everyone. Maybe someone could try to help me with multiplayer in Unreal?
So the problem I got is when I try to test the level and I have more than 1 player, it doesnt work. Player who hosts the game (server) just disables controller and player cant move when player who joined they dont appear on the level at all, just appears camera under the floor. But if I test just with 1 player (server) then it works fine

spiral saffron Jan 31, 2019, 10:05 AM

#

Hey!
Have someone replicated motion controllers? There is function "GetValidTrackedDeviceIds" which returnes array of integer indexes of motion controllers. So far I've figured out that id:1 == right and id:2 == left. But what if more than one pair of controllers would appear in same real-world room? I mean, for example, VR warehouses. How can I figure out which id is for which player? Does it depend on player controller index on server (ie pc_0 owns 1 and 2, pc_1 owns 3 and 4 etc.)?

#

Also need to say that I call this function on owning client only

twin juniper Jan 31, 2019, 10:47 AM

#

Hi again. A little bit of update on my problem. I managed to fix multiplayer working. I had a problem of some nodes being "Server only" when I had to change them to "Multicast". But I've noticed another bug. Before the main level all the players connect to lobby level where they chose a character and after everyone has selected the character server can start the game. But on the actual level for client it spawns only default character. For example in client in lobby selected green character in game he will appear red, which is character by default

white fable Jan 31, 2019, 10:56 AM

#

@spiral saffron I don't think you can guarantee that id:1 will always be the left and id:2 the right. I thought it depended on the order they were switched on. GetValidTrackedDeviceIds will just add the last detected device to the array as and when it's picked up, but the order of these could constantly be changing as devices drop out or reappear. At least that's how I understand it.

spiral saffron Jan 31, 2019, 10:57 AM

#

@white fable Could you give me advice how to find info on that off the top of your head?

#

And I've tested just now like this: switched off both controllers, switched on the left one and then read that array. It had one element: "2"

#

So it looks like it is "inner id" of device

white fable Jan 31, 2019, 11:00 AM

#

The solution I went with you get a unique, persistent controller/tracker ID was to load the OpenVR dlls into Unreal (see github OpenVR). These will return a device serial number, which you can always guarantee won't change. It's a bit of a pain though.

worthy perch Jan 31, 2019, 11:00 AM

#

What class are motion controllers?

spiral saffron Jan 31, 2019, 11:01 AM

#

@white fable that's an idea, actually

#

@worthy perch UMotionControllerComponent

spiral saffron Jan 31, 2019, 11:20 AM

#

@white fable Found in mordentral's vr expansion this function. It look like what you actually meant. But have you worked with this in networking context?

📎 unknown.png

white fable Jan 31, 2019, 11:31 AM

#

@spiral saffron I think that vr expansion plugin wraps a lot of the OpenvVR functions and exposes to them blueprints, so that makes sense. I call on owning client as well, but as long as the DeviceID matches a serial number I don't suppose it matters.

thin stratus Jan 31, 2019, 2:44 PM

#

@twin juniper Your best bet is to use their forums and support services

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

Are there any cheaper alternatives to bReplicateMovement ? I want to replicate the movement of weapon pickups as they fall to the ground (think Halo). But right now they are using a ton of bandwidth. I could shut off replicate movement once they come to a rest. But I was just wondering what other options I have.

fleet sluice Jan 31, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

@jolly siren RPCs for "dropped" and "picked up" and let each client simulate its own movement independently because it doesn't sound like it would have any effect on gameplay.

#

Or am I missing something?

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

That is an option. But players can fight over weapons, so that might get strange if they aren't in the same location for everyone.

fleet sluice Jan 31, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

If you pass the "throw" vector through the "dropped" RPC, why wouldn't they land in the same location, though?

#

Or have an additional RPC "OnWeaponTouchedTheGround" to let the server correct its position.

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

They move around a bit after they hit the ground. But that's true. I could just use an rpc to correct the movement once it has stopped. Or replicate the final location.

west star Jan 31, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

Speaking of which, physics bounce angles are still partially random in ue4, right?

#

I remember having to rewrite the internal logic to get the same bounces across clients and avoid jitter.

thin stratus Jan 31, 2019, 4:28 PM

#

Just don't use physics

#

Calc it yourself

winged badger Jan 31, 2019, 4:28 PM

#

random isn't the word for it... slight variations because impact angles are not perfectly synced cause the problems

thin stratus Jan 31, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

Floating points

#

I assume

winged badger Jan 31, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

in a nightmare scenario, sure

#

but server generally allows some tolerance before it corrects positions

thin stratus Jan 31, 2019, 4:38 PM

#

Well don't you think I already read everything I could before posting there ?

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 4:38 PM

#

Do you have an example of calculating some sort of physics bounces yourself like that? I'm curious as to how that would be structured.

thin stratus Jan 31, 2019, 4:38 PM

#

Given the amount of people here who wouldn't do that, yes I expect you to not have been there.

#

On the other hand, I simply suggested you to go there because it makes more sense than asking here as a first thing.

#

Now calm your horses.

#

Your best bet is to check the logs.

#

And if PlayFab provides Source Code, you can also try to break point the stuff

#

And see where it actually returns false.

#

I would also hope that PlayFab is actually able to help you here, because if not, then their service is really nothing I would touch.

queen bay Jan 31, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

Hey guys,

I have a dedicated server at home and it worked now 1 month perfectly. But from once day it instantly didn't listen on port 7777, I mean the server listen to this port but it isn't open. I restarted my rooters, updated NoIP, created a new build, Tested my build locally with 127.0.0.1:7777 (works perfectly), but it just doesn't open me the networking server. I have also the Tool from NoIP which updates my ip to the DDNS domain... All is fine, but it doesn't create the server.

Any ideas what I can try?

📎 serverlog.log

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 10:41 PM

#

Is there a priority difference between a replicated variable that is set and then has ForceNetUpdate called on its actor vs. a rpc?

hasty adder Jan 31, 2019, 11:23 PM

#

Though that just means it calls the rep to happen then and there instantly rather then it's uhh forget the word but priority which could be set to not be as imp

jolly siren Jan 31, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

Makes sense

meager spade Feb 1, 2019, 1:34 AM

#

has anyone here done anything like adjusting the delay before a bullet hits depending on range, ie if range is 4000, the hit scan processes x amount of time later if that makes sense?

#

to kinda fake that the bullet is travelling

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 1:54 AM

#

You could just use a timer for that.

meager spade Feb 1, 2019, 2:17 AM

#

right..

#

but i need to do it based on flight time and predict how long it will take

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 2:26 AM

#

Why not use projectiles for that?

meager spade Feb 1, 2019, 3:12 AM

#

well for the long range guns i will

#

but for fast firing guns i want to keep them hitscan

#

snipers etc will be projectile

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 4:02 AM

#

I'm not too familiar with this, but is this in PIE?

#

Maybe try launching as Standlone Game. If that doesn't work, perhaps you need two machines for Steam. 1. To run the client. 2. To run the server.

#

Oh, well, I forgot that Standalone Game won't create the server...

#

Yeah. Let me get the wiki.

#

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Dedicated_Server_Guide_(Windows_%26_Linux)

Dedicated_Server_Guide_(Windows_%26_Linux)

#

I think most people use Steam for sessions based stuff, which I have absolutely no knowledge of.

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 4:59 AM

#

i have a question regarding Dedicated Servers 😃

#

if the max Player count is set to 64 (wich is the Limit if u dont change it in the source of the Engine) is that max player count per .exe or per instance?

fleet raven Feb 1, 2019, 5:01 AM

#

that's the same thing?

#

hmm I guess you can run multiple processes from one exe, the limit is per instance

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

📎 ded.PNG

#

👆 Like that (fast example)

#

that 1 "Server" hosts 3 "sessions" where 64 people can join right?

#

would not be reccomended because of performance right?

fleet raven Feb 1, 2019, 5:09 AM

#

that's not a thing by default, though there are some cloud providers that can provide this kind of autoscaling

fossil spoke Feb 1, 2019, 5:10 AM

#

A single Dedicated Server .exe (the process) is considered a single Session, it cannot handle more than 1 session. A single Dedicated Server box (physical machine) can run multiple .exe (processes) to support multiple "Server" sessions.

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:11 AM

#

👆 Thats what i wanted to know Thanks for the awnser ^^

#

so i have to switch the port for each .exe and thats it <- (in short term)

fossil spoke Feb 1, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

Basically yes

#

UE4 will do that for you though automatically from memory.

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

handy

fossil spoke Feb 1, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

It just increments from 7777

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:14 AM

#

i wonder how much players UE4 could "potentially" handle (they dont need to stand at 1 place for the sake of fps but for example on a 10x10 km map what would be the max until the game gets unplayable / crashes 🤔 i guess its even then a question of what is happening and the performance of the game itself ^^ but still realy interesting 😃

fossil spoke Feb 1, 2019, 5:16 AM

#

139 is fine, its up to you if you want to update but be warned you may need to fix the OSS if it has compat issues.

#

@hot robin Well considering Fortnite has 100 players, that would be a good start to guess at. External libraries like SpatialOS can help with creating extremely crazy multiplayer experiences but it does take some work to get that going. Not sure what its limits are.

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

yeah it looked super interesting but i dont bother touching it since ur bound to their service and u pay per GB used by every user and they are not public about the Prices wich is a bad sign if u ask me.

fossil spoke Feb 1, 2019, 5:25 AM

#

Just means you need to make an enquiry about it.

hot robin Feb 1, 2019, 5:29 AM

#

If they would charge a Set amount until X is reached like Epic handels it would be more acceptable because if its not a "hit" the cost could be massive and get a big drag.
But if u pay 20-50 bucks a month until u hit a certin amount of traffic there could be some kind of "Extra License" need in place so its not such a "Risk" even if its way less per gb right now.
Also what about DDOS attacks? Does the traffic of a DDOS attack will have a financial impackt on me as a developer? ...^^ all that raises way to many questions. ^^

red sand Feb 1, 2019, 9:26 AM

#

Hi anyone knows how to replicated updated joint locations?

📎 unknown.png

thin stratus Feb 1, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

Technically you always have some sort of variable you use to calculate/update the joint locations

#

You would want to replicate that data

#

Outside of the AnimBP of course

red sand Feb 1, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

I was doing it in Gameplay Ability Blueprint But then I made custom event for that in Character itself and called it in Gameplay Ability Blueprint when I wanted to update the joint location and it's working now

jolly siren Feb 1, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

Do you guys think that Fortnite's KB net speed is using KB as 1024 bytes or 1000 bytes?

#

📎 unknown.png

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

1024 ?

jolly siren Feb 1, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

oop that's what I meant instead of 1200

#

But you think they are using 1024? I thought 1000 was normally used for data transfer

thin stratus Feb 1, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

I would also say 1000

jolly siren Feb 1, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

Okay, yeah this is what I'm using
const float OutKiloBytesPerSecond = (float)NetConnection->OutBytesPerSecond / 1000.f;

#

"The byte scale is different than the bit scale, each step up is by a factor of 1024 not 1000. Although, a common misconception is that this also applies to networking, it doesn't. In the context of networking speeds the factor is 1000 not 1024."

#

I'll stick with 1000 then. Thanks guys

nocturne berry Feb 1, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

@thin stratus Your suggestion to use FCoreUObjectDelegates::PostLoadMapWithWorld in GameMode to get the port worked! Couldn't try it before today because I've exceeded the 125h limit for free tier on GameLift :p

anw I have 1 more question regarding GameSparks with GameLift in which I think you had as a problem before and fixed it https://gamedev.amazon.com/forums/questions/20217/ue4-dedicated-server-on-gamelift-reports-websocket.html
I did add certmgr /add addtrustexternalcaroot.crt to my install.bat file, also tried certmgr.exe /add /c AddTrustExternalCARoot.cer /s /r localmachine root, but every time i upload my build to GameLift the fleet fails on installing the install.bat

Still have your solution to this?

thin stratus Feb 1, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

I haven't touched that in like 1-2 years. Will probablye have to fight it later the year again. That's def what I tried and that worked.
Can't say much more.

nocturne berry Feb 1, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

do u remember if you had to upload certmgr.exe to the server?

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

so the Steam SubSystem thing is bugged hard

#

you can't find any sessions if you have it enabled

wary willow Feb 1, 2019, 4:52 PM

#

Hmmm, everyone changing their usernames to real names has me tripping out

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

when i am using the null subsytem i can find the sessions

#

but when i am trying to implement the steam i can't find any sessions

#

and i just want to use the steam just for the names and avatars

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

@twin juniper Steam OSS works fine

#

Of course with Steam it needs two Steam accounts on different machines

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

Any of you lot hear about Ikinema for motion capture?

#

Hard to find a good review on it

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

#animation

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

oh shit I thought I was there

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

but if i use the server and the client on the same pc

#

is not finding the sessions?

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

You can't do that due to Steam's design

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

yeah but the dedicated is not using the steam

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

If it's not using Steam, it can't use Steam sessions 🤷

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

no , is using the steam oss but when i open the dedicated i don't get any error

#

but i think you are right

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

You simply can't, and never will be able to, use Steam sessions on a single machine

#

That's by design on Steam's side

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

ok

#

thats why i need a vps

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

You need two computers

#

And two Steam accounts

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

yeah but if i want to put the server on linux vps

#

i need to login with an steam account?

#

that is not having logic

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

No idea, I've never touched dedicated servers

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Well then I got a multiplayer question for you. Making a smash bros style fighter and I wanted to contract a guy to get the movement system just right. How foolish would it be to retrofit the movement system to work online?

#

Just the rolls, jumpts, runs exc. not the full game.

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

Hard to say for sure but the Character Movement class in UE4 is like 10,000 lines of C++, most of it networking

#

Generally speaking it's hard

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

Holy shit... I had no idea I was getting myself in for a task that deep.

#

You're saying its thousands of lines of code to get mario jumping and running left and right?

#

Let alone doing it smoothly?

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

You said "online" - online makes anything 5x harder

#

Movement in particular, if you can't use the character component movement, is huge

#

It needs to be very sophisticated to look okay

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

Do you think someone of your skill could even do it?

#

I am just learning C++ with the intent to learn net code

#

Should I just pay a guy?

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:15 PM

#

It's very doable, it's just way more work than single-player or local MP

#

Basically it's matter of simulating smooth movement despite lossy, slow, random communications

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

I hear retrofitting a local game to work online is a nightmare.

#

is this true?

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

Yes

#

Like I said, online support for a feature is always more work than the feature itself

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

So if I don't think I can deliver a proper movement system in C++ retrofitting someone elses code is a fool's errand it seems

#

Look like paying someone to do the whole job is the only way. That is a big chunk to fundraise. Guy said he would netcode part of the game for 20k

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

If you're not going to spend months in complex C++, you can try tuning the character movement component to your game

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

Its not responsive enough unfortunately. :/

#

I have to get it melee smooth

#

Is netcoding your profession?

bitter oriole Feb 1, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

Part of it, I guess ? But I'm way too busy with my own projects if that's your thinking.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

I am trying to get an idea of how much I would budget into the cost of getting the game to work online

#

In case learning it myself proves to be insurmountable.

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 5:46 PM

#

@bitter oriole @twin juniper You simply can't, and never will be able to, use Steam sessions on a single machine That's by design on Steam's side
Actually it's by design from Epic's side. I implemented multiple Steam sessions on a single machine in my plugin so I dug deep enough to discover that.

#

Steam's networking utilities use virtual ports so there's no technical limitation that says "one account, one server".

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

"virtual ports" 🤔

manic pine Feb 1, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

as opposed to using the LPT1 port

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

More like a "parser". All Steam traffic arrives on "actual" port X, but the system itself delivers it to different channels so you end up with addresses like: 215414219419:100, in the format "SteamID : virtual port". Thus, you can have an account with SteamID 215414219419, which runs N processes, which will result in a range of clients/servers from 215414219419:1 to 215414219419:N.

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

Ah gotcha

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 5:54 PM

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Therefore, multiple clients on the same account. It just isn't implemented in Epic's NetDriver. It's not even technically related to the OnlineSubsystemSteam functions, but to the SteamNetDriver class itself.

manic pine Feb 1, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

was there any inline comments about why?

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 5:56 PM

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No, but it's pretty obvious from the design itself that it was just for convenience. SteamNetDriver doesn't even allow direct IP connections. Whoever worked on it simply started with the premise "one machine, one account and if I am coding SteamID connections, why should I also bother with direct IP ones"

manic pine Feb 1, 2019, 5:57 PM

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if im understanding it correctly, it would mean you could never run a (steam-registered) dedicated server and play as a client from the same machine on any UE4-based game?

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 5:58 PM

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In theory, you should. Dedicated servers have their own accounts so whatever your "human" account it, it's going to run in parallel to the dedicated server's account, which is sort of created automatically on start-up.

#

Listen servers won't work though.

#

And the dedicated servers will bug out or simply not allow multiple clients on one machine.

#

There's a whole list of "edge cases" because of that design of SteamNetDriver.

manic pine Feb 1, 2019, 5:59 PM

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all this steam-related stuff is nasty i think

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same with the voip

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:01 PM

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I haven't followed VoIP development in OnlineSubsystemSteam for about a year now. Things with Steam aren't hard by themselves, but the framework provided by Epic makes the average UE4 dev assume it's an all-in-one, ideal, robust solution, which is really far from the truth.

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 6:01 PM

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yeah but when i use null subsystem is working

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Most of my customers' misunderstandings come from the UE4 side.

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OSNull uses platform sockets (or IP:port) to transfer data so yea, of course that works fine out of the box.

manic pine Feb 1, 2019, 6:02 PM

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i suppose we'll get a new onlinesubsystem soon

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for epic's client?

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:03 PM

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I guess

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 6:03 PM

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you don't have any idea how to use just the steam api just for the player data and not for the sessions?

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:03 PM

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They had an OnlineSubsystemMCP in Unreal Tournament ages ago so it wouldn't be a first

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What do you mean "player data"?

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 6:04 PM

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steam id

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or steam avatar

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not the entire steam session sub system

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:05 PM

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Yes, I know how to use those. That's part of what my Marketplace products help with.

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 6:05 PM

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what markeplace products?

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do you have a link

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?

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:06 PM

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https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/profile/Vlad+Serbanescu

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I'd rather not flood this channel with promotion though so feel free to join my Discord if you're interested.

twin juniper Feb 1, 2019, 6:07 PM

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you are romanian? , i am asking because of the name

fleet sluice Feb 1, 2019, 6:08 PM

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Yes

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 6:34 PM

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For just getting something like melee smoothing on a character, couldn't you just increase the netupdatefrequency? Sure, there's still some latency especially with how you do animations, but I don't think rewriting CMC could fix that. Most of CMC already makes the replicated movement structs net serialized/packed.

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Sure there's quite a lot of stuff you probably don't need in CMC that gets handled, but I doubt that has a significant network cost.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 7:57 PM

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That to me Mr. Floss?

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Hmm, do you think I could lift most of the code from cmc and apply it to a more tailored movement system? My boys have been unable to really nail melee movement with unreal's setup. Do you think it is possible assuming you are quite familiar with smash?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:11 PM

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I think it's probably quite doable, however, do you already know what you would change to get gains?

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:12 PM

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Igain?

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gains*?

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I am just learning C++ and netcode btw if that was not already sadly apparent .

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:12 PM

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I meant like, do you know what you want to change in order to get the desired outcome.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:12 PM

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ah

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In temrs of the movement system

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A smash character runs in a series of states

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ie: walking is at a variable speed, while tapping foreward puts you into a fixed sprint.

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most of the issues have been in air movement

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being able to control how a character moves through the air is limited in a few keyy ways in unreal it seems

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:15 PM

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So your problems are just related to how movement "feels"?

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:15 PM

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It also must be all done in C++ to my understanding to meet the mark in terms of preformace

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yes

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Oooh, I thought it had to do with movement replication.

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Yeah, then in your case, it's very doable.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:15 PM

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really?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Yeah.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:16 PM

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Yeah it needs to feel right but problem 1 is that I am just learning C++ and dont know if I can make melee movement, and was wondering if I could contract that out and retrofit what they send me to work online

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because netcode seems to be the main big expense

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thus why I am trying my hand at learning it myself

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:17 PM

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I mean, a lot of the stuff in CMC is already exposed... like Jump Height sort of thing.

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And for the stuff that's not exposed, let's say... how falling is handled, should be pretty straight forward.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:17 PM

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Nice

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So do you think retrofitting is to be avoided at all costs even if it were something as relatively simple as the movement alone ?

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Or you think think I am overhyping my fear on being able to code melee movement all together?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:19 PM

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I mean... unless you see a reason to do so.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Do you think you could code melee movement if you really put yourself to it?

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netcoding and all

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Well, most of the code is already in CMC.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:21 PM

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So I am being a tad overly fearful?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Maybe? I think it's definitely doable.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Do you think you could if you put yourself to it?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Umm... I guess.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Hmm

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How long did it take you to learn netcoding?

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Unreal takes care of pretty much everything.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:24 PM

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huh, So the job of most devs here is to just smooth it out so to speak? It seems kinda choppy by default.

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:24 PM

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I guess to implement the stuff rather than build upon it.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:25 PM

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When you open the source code for netplay does it all pretty much make sense to you or is a good deal of it ls lost in translation?

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I feel like devs making a fps game have an easy time in this department

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:26 PM

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What's NetPlay?

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:26 PM

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the netcode stuff, online functionality code

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:28 PM

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I never really took a look... but for the most part, things can be followed. I don't know.

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Hmm, I see.

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Sounds like I am overestimating the difficulty of it all somewhat. Let us hope this is true haha.

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Maybe take a look at this: https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Authoritative_Networked_Character_Movement

Authoritative Networked Character Movement

ocean arrow Feb 1, 2019, 8:44 PM

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Will read

worthy perch Feb 1, 2019, 8:49 PM

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I don't think you need to do that way for many things, but the information in the wiki should be good.

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 9:38 PM

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Has anyone used fsocket multicast? I'm thinking of using it for a mobile companion app for my game, all in ue4

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 9:42 PM

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Not specifically the FSocket class, but I've used multicast udp sockets. What's your question?

normal girder Feb 1, 2019, 10:51 PM

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hello

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can someone explain me something

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i have a classic session system

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on plyer press host

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the other press join

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after they go on lobby

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and after i press start game and all go on the game

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so, how to set some variable on the first screen (before host or join)

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and keep this variable when i change map

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i try with playerState, but i don t think i must do this

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i beleived that i can use GameInstance, but i m not sure that is the good solution

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so if someone can show me the way...

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:49 PM

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@sharp pagoda I need to send updates every frametick, in order. the other option is to use a middleman, which both devices will be connected-- just didn't want to waste that kind of data on the server

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small though, fits in a network frame maybe 10 bytes total

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middleman as in server in aws

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 11:51 PM

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Alright, so you probably want tcp sockets? Or do you need some special multicast functionality?

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:51 PM

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well i want the devices to simply find eachother without user input, maybe i should set up an initial handshake? just worried about ports being open and all of that

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 11:52 PM

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Oh you're talking about p2p connections?

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:52 PM

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well sort of yea, but just one device to one device, likely the only two on the subnet

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 11:52 PM

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Can you explain a bit more about what this mobile companion is going to do?

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:54 PM

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its for a physical trainer, hard to explain why it's good until you see it; but the mobile app will be more convenient to use while working out (on a stationary bike)

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 11:54 PM

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Also is this app for the local network only or can you discover your device on the public internet?

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:54 PM

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hopefully just local, but i've seen some wifi networks not play nice which would mean utilizing a central server on the internet side

sharp pagoda Feb 1, 2019, 11:55 PM

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Gotcha, so you can achieve this through a local group multicast every so often broadcasting "Hey, I'm available", where the other device (probably the phone) can listen for this an exchange enough info to connect through that.

#

From then on you'll need to either use a middle man service to setup the p2p connection or write a connection oriented reliable udp layer

lean onyx Feb 1, 2019, 11:56 PM

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gotcha that makes sense

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thanks that helps 😃

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 1:47 AM

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Attaching a replicated actor, to another replicated actor causes a weird de-sync in location for the client

#

📎 unknown.png

#

any ideas?

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 1:52 AM

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what FAttachmentTransformRule did you use?

#

is the offset consistent across axii?

#

is scale other then 1.f involved?

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:07 AM

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SnapToTarget

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scale is 1 everywhere

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yes, the offset appears consistent

#

📎 unknown.png

#

yellow arrow is true "0"
Torso is first attachment
Legs are 2nd, and 3rd.
Body (invisible) is 4th
Arms are 5/6th

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Locations are correct on server

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When I had replicate turned off for these attached components everything seemed to work

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📎 unknown.png

#

Above: If I turn of replication for body parts, they appear correctly, but the attached arrows (red) are in the correct pattern, but wrong location

#

📎 unknown.png

#

If I turn off replication for ALL attachable actors, then everything works just fine...

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:19 AM

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and if you turn off just bReplicateMovement?

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:20 AM

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If I do that, its the same as the initial issue

#

I have to disable replication for the scene root in order for everything to appear to work

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:23 AM

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i never replicated a root component

#

its always the DefaultSubobject, so you can reference it just fine on replicated Actor over the network

#

it uses its FName + Actors NetGUID for referencne

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:24 AM

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I don't use c++

#

While I understand a bit of what you are saying

#

I don't know what a defaultsubobject is

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:25 AM

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if you added it in BP via AddComponent+ instead of spawning it in runtime

#

its defaultsubobject

#

its part of the Actors ClassDefaultObject

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:25 AM

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I have to dynamically spawn it as an actor

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

and as such can be reference it over network

#

oh, you can spawn Actor dynamically just fine

#

as long as you don't spawn its root component during runtime separately

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:26 AM

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I don't understand why turning off replication on the root component allows for proper client attachment

#

I though you WANT replication for this stuff

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

i don't exactly know, since i never tried it

#

but - actor constnruction

#

when server spawns an Actor that is replicated

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

Okay, since the client sees everything correctly, i am somehow going to assume that it looks at what its attached to for replication

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

client gets a package, or a bunch, which is basically : spawn an Actor of this Type and here are its replicated properties

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

yea

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

the client constructs an Actor of that Type

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

sure

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

and runs its constructor/constnruction script

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

that all works fine

#

its after construction

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

which is where default subobjects are added

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

after spawning

#

i attach it to another actor

#

this isn't cdo related

#

imagine legos

#

you spawn 100 legos, and let the user attach/detach them at will

#

if you enable replication on the lego root component, attachment location will drift per attachment in the chain.

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

only if the transforms are relative to root

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:31 AM

#

no, i've set them to snap to target

#

and even tried setting the relatives to 0 after attachment

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:32 AM

#

but my point is, your root is either a mesh or a scene ?

#

and it contains no custom logic

#

or a capsule

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:32 AM

#

my root is not dynamic

#

that IS cdo

#

but the attachment is dynamic

#

Also, my body parts are skeletal root

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

sure, but there is no need to replicate components from the CDO unless there is custom networking logic inside them

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:33 AM

#

the red arrows, are secondary attached actors to each body part, and those are static meshes

#

okay

#

I thought the replication was more than just the "object"

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

same goes for Actors that are pre-placed on level (loaded from package)

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

but I guess thats what replicate movement does

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:34 AM

#

they have a unique name in the package, that can be used to reference them over network

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

So I can turn off replication for everything that is CDO? (just keep replicate movement)

#

(not variables)

#

(Just the components)

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

if you have a UStaticMeshComponent in the CDO, it doesn't need to be replicated

glacial pollen Feb 2, 2019, 2:35 AM

#

skeletal

#

and

#

scene

#

and static

#

those are my 3 building blocks

winged badger Feb 2, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

if you have your WeaponComponent that contains replicated variables and/or RPCs in the CDO, that you have to replicate

#

SkeletalMesh has no custom networking logic, UAnimInstance is not replicated at all

#

Scene and StaticMesh components also