gameplay-ai

[potent steeple]

if you get the chance to look at your code that'd be great

[slow bobcat]

hey, sorry. Forgot to reply.
Ignore everything I said. Since I did all this (3 years ago aprox), there's been changes in NavLinkCustomComponent.
You now have this method to check that kind of stuff

allows you access to the querier and, from there, you can access the data

the one thing I still think you can't know is the direcctión in which the nav link is being taken, which was a must for us: some AI's can go up and down, others only down

So it was not just a matter of the height of the navLink but the direction too

that's said, maybe there's a new way to figure it out

[potent steeple]

that's helpful, I'll see what i can come up with

thanks!

wish the docs for this stuff were better...

[slow bobcat]

I had to do this pretty much (plus the engine mod where the function is called).
The upper part is what the engine offers (which calls the function mentioned in the reply above)
Our engine calls our custom function in the engine

would be nice if future versions of the engine could pass a struct wrapping all the data of the path request assessing for the nav link in question

[near condor]

Really digging State Trees.

Have some thoughts that hopefully those who have spent some good chunks of time on them with can answer them for me, but first I want to give a tidbit of context.

I am very comfortable with figuring out what the AI needs to know in order to enter a state. That is not a problem for me to document and structure out before coding.

With that said, the primary thing that has me in a loop is knowing where data should be processed.

I feel like "baby's first state tree" would look something like this (ignoring the patrol section):

But what is getting at me, is that I can't figure out what would be the most efficient way for the State Tree to determine to switch to a new state?

Possibilities are massive with these.
-At the end of each task, evaluate a state change
-On a evaluator, evaluate on tick if state is changed based on variables
-Global Task to execute constantly determining new state
-Only check if you enter a new state at the end of state tree groups?

I have pros an cons to each of these but I am really not sure what direction to head with them. I think I dislike the thought of having the end of each task check even though it would be a more immediate switch (sort of, barring the task itself doesn't have delays) because it doesn't feel as manageable in the long run (debugging would be a pain).

[potent steeple]

this

[potent steeple]

So what I would do then is override NavLinkProxy and replace the NavLinkCustomComponent with my own subclass in the constructor of the proxy?

Do I understand that properly?

[potent steeple]

SmartLinkComp is private in ANavLinkProxy so I'm not sure how I can replace it.

[tired glen]

How could I make it so that an enemy follows the player (Without sight) and when he is on range (And nothing blocks him), he starts shooting the player?

In a behavior tree

[slow bobcat]

Yeah. Exactly that

[slow bobcat]

Ummm really? I could swear I saw someone here overriding it

[potent steeple]

From what I can tell, the navigation system registers all INavLinkCustomInterface instances automatically so could I just create a new component and attach it? That seems super messy and I would obv rather replace the built in one.

[slow bobcat]

Ok the pointer stored is private, but where it's created... Is that something you can mess with?

[potent steeple]

it's created in the constructor

of the default nav link proxy

[slow bobcat]

that's fine then. You can use the object initializer to assign a different one in your child-class constructor. Something like what the shooter character does in the project example

AShooterCharacter::AShooterCharacter(const FObjectInitializer& ObjectInitializer) : Super(ObjectInitializer.SetDefaultSubobjectClass<UShooterCharacterMovement>(ACharacter::CharacterMovementComponentName)

)

do that, but with the UNavLinkCustomComponent

[potent steeple]

Awesome, thanks!

Just posting for future reference. Again, thanks a bunch @slow bobcat

Super(ObjectInitializer.SetDefaultSubobjectClass<UMyNavLinkCustomComponent>(TEXT("SmartLinkComp")))
{
    // Don't need to do anything.
}```

[slow bobcat]

No worries. It's weird how the usage of the Object Initializer is one of those spoken secrets. Back in ue4 that was the way to set the crowd component

[ebon shore]

Hi friends, I'm trying to learn, so I have a simple solution to my issue, but I know there has to be a better one
I have an AI with enum states for MoveTo, Attack, Stunned, and Dead--I'm using some tick to check states, SO when I enter dead, it eventually changes states again so that the AI jumps up from dead and attacks before it disappears. I could lower the timer for when it disappears, but I like the amount of time the dead body shows on screen--and I know I could do a bool for "IsDead," but there has to be a more elegant solution?

IS there some way to let the Blueprint know I no longer want it to run the tick function, for example, or to tell it to disable the enum state changes by removing the state from the character, etc.?

[stable plover]

you are using behavior trees correct?

[stable plover]

instead of checking tick why cant you send out events?

[ebon shore]

I'm not, because I need more customization than behavior trees allow for

[ebon shore]

Oh, right, I could try to figure that out

[stable plover]

    PrimaryActorTick.bCanEverTick = false;```

you can also set bCanEverTick to false

[ebon shore]

Oooo okay, this might be the easiest for my skill level! Thank you!

[stable plover]

np see if that works

[stable plover]

I been mesing around with state trees and they seem to offer some more customization, check into that approach as well

[ebon shore]

I must have a bigger issue cause it did not lol

[stable plover]

send a screenshot of where your logic is at

[stable plover]

if you are running logic in the tick function which should be reccommended in my opinion the best you can do that i can think of is just hace boolean checks, check for the current state fist of all if [state] == death

[stable plover]

where is the become deceased function getting called at?

i dont see the pin connected from the switch

[stable plover]

this is where im looking at

[ebon shore]

Sorry, yes, I am super new, and this has been built over the year using different tutorials/tutors, etc.

[stable plover]

just to keep everything simple i would just check to see if the ai is dead before you even perfrom any logic related to attacking, moving or etc, because im assuming that receive attack function is called in event attack function

[stable plover]

so i would first have a branch that checks if the state == death first and on true perform your logic, then false would hook up onto the next branch

[stable plover]

or you can move this death check to the event tick, check it first

[ebon shore]

Thank you! For now I went in and added that check before ever changing the state, it worked--I think there might be some places where I've over-programmed it so it was changing states when I didn't need it to, cause even with that check just on tick, it was still changing after death, so I'll also be going in and trying to simplify

[slow bobcat]

This has been re-uploaded, not sure why. Maybe a better edit? Would be nice to have it in the pins
https://youtu.be/YEmq4kcblj4

[dense owl]

<@&213101288538374145> ^

[verbal bloom]

Hi I have a problem with Learning Agents, should I ask here?

[coral widget]

can i use query enviroment system to make the ai work like minions in league of legends?

the query enviroment system can avoid the ai? is this system for that?

[coral widget]

can i use envoriment query system to avoid the ais taht they dont block each other?

[elfin hinge]

Hi. Only the first EQS execution does a frame freeze and warning is throwned out: LogEQS: Warning: Query EQS_FindTargetPlayer_SingleResult (Owner: C_MeleeBright_C_0) has finished in 569.90 ms, exceeding the configured limit of 25.00 ms. Execution details: Total Execution Time: 569.90 ms. It seems that it loads up without cache and after the first execution just caches EQS.

Did remove EQS and frame freeze was gone (obviously because it's due to EQS), changed EQS by removing parts of it and even at the base line of just "Get actor of class" it still was freezing. So it looks like that it's nothing related to Actors perceived by Querier node.

What could be the reason and how to solve it? Seems some kind of load needs to be done initially or something else, got no idea.

[slow bobcat]

This means your eqs is doing a lot of things or just a few that are very expensive on cpu. The freeze is your game thread being stalled. Get actor of class is expensive because it will loop all actors in the level and check one by one if they match your type. The more actors, the lower it will be

Also never seen a query with 2 generators doing two things at the same time

I don't think that's a good idea

[elfin hinge]

But it only happens once at the initial execution. First AI actor that runs EQS get's this warning and for the result of the game loop there's not a single freeze of EQS.

[elfin hinge]

Even with a single one it still freezes up

It's just the first execution, like it's loading EQS in general up and then freezes

[slow bobcat]

Oh... That's odd...

Could it be because you have 2 generators depending from the root?

Have you tried to just have one thing?

[elfin hinge]

Just now tried this and it froze up for that single execution

It's just the first execution that causes this

Default node, nothing added to it

With profiling, average is fine-ish, but the worst one is just ... That one freezing execution seems strange

[slow bobcat]

If you open Visual Logger, what does it say about the eqs? 634ms sounds like your querier is perceiving lots of actors

In vis log you will see how many are being gathered etc

[slow bobcat]

This one is just a circle around the querier, that should be super fast

[elfin hinge]

Okay I'll take a look at it

[elfin hinge]

Yeah that's the thing, even nothing like that freezes up for that one first execution

[slow bobcat]

How are you running the eqs? Can you show us?
What I would do in your case is to check VisLog and, if that doesn't explain anything, I would make a build (development should be OK) and run insights on it with statnamedevents and cpu traces

[elfin hinge]

Filtered by EQS, I'm not seeing anything there aside of that warning. ANd by graph doesn't show up anything? Haven't really used vislog that much. Second image dropped with BT just in case.

[elfin hinge]

But what could be the reason why it's so slow only for the first execution? Because it never occurs again afterwards.

[slow bobcat]

No idea. The generator, is it a custom one or a vanilla generator offered by the engine?
Also, can I see the service that runs the eqs?

You could do a test: remove that service, run the eqs from some BP begin play for example, see if you have the same issue. If you don't, it might be something related to the bt

If none of that helps, I recommend you make a build with project launcher and use unreal insights to see what is really happening

[elfin hinge]

Vanilla generator, nothing custom there.

Alright I'll try out running it without BT and check it that way.

[vagrant badge]

It really seems like a bug in the Sight Sense logic where it's caching the initial position and not counting it until I move. I'm trying to dig through the C++ but haven't figured out exactly whats going wrong yet.

A couple other things I tried:

• Setting MaxAge = 0.5 to force a refresh of initial detection / clear caching

• Setting AutoSuccessRangeFromLastSeenLocation to like a million

• Setting StartEnabled = false on my NPC AIController and turning on after a 2 second delay

Also note the InRange versus OutOfRange doesn't change between the two. The sight sense is correctly finding my player, it's just not triggering the perception event until I move.

[slow bobcat]

but there's one thing I still haven't seen and I suspect that might be the problem
OnTargetPerceptionUpdated is a delegate to which you have to bind. Can I see where are you binding to it? You mentioned the Event Grapgh, but where/when?

you have these event to subscribe to

[vagrant badge]

I just used the Blueprint stuff

this is inside my BP for the AIController

[slow bobcat]

that's not bound dude

that's your poblem

[vagrant badge]

hah

stupid blueprints

how does this ever work tho

[slow bobcat]

OnPossessed in your AI Controller, grab the AI Perception Component

From there, look for Bind To On Target Perception Updated

like this

[vagrant badge]

isn't this supposed to automatically bind for me?

i will try this though just to see

[slow bobcat]

not sure. In code we handle like how I show you. Worth a shot. If that doesn't work, it's something else then

[vagrant badge]

testing a new build now

[slow bobcat]

in code it's pretty clear that you need to bind to it or it will never fire

[vagrant badge]

yeah i saw that

unfortunately that didn't help.

i'm 99% sure the blueprints has an automagic binding when you click that + button to create a new blueprint event handler, because it's the only place I'm setting the blackboard Target value to the AI behavior tree, and it's triggering. just not until I move.

i guess my next step is to get a debugger on this and step through whats going on in the engine code.

[slow bobcat]

yep. I would set a breakpoint in that piece of code.
When your case happens, is your player just spawning in idle and in sight of the AI or is the AI walking towards the player and not detecting it?

[vagrant badge]

so in this case the player has spawned a while ago and NPC is newly spawned. the player is within the sight radius upon spawn.

the AI is moving towards the player and not detecting it

{
    SCOPE_CYCLE_COUNTER(STAT_AI_PerceptionSys);

    if (!IsValid(&Listener))
    {
        UnregisterListener(Listener);
        return;
    }

    const FPerceptionListenerID ListenerId = Listener.GetListenerId();

    if (ListenerId != FPerceptionListenerID::InvalidID())
    {
        FPerceptionListener& ListenerEntry = ListenerContainer[ListenerId];
        ListenerEntry.UpdateListenerProperties(Listener);
        OnListenerUpdate(ListenerEntry);
    }
    else
    {            
        const FPerceptionListenerID NewListenerId = FPerceptionListenerID::GetNextID();
        Listener.StoreListenerId(NewListenerId);
        FPerceptionListener& ListenerEntry = ListenerContainer.Add(NewListenerId, FPerceptionListener(Listener));
        ListenerEntry.CacheLocation();
                
        OnNewListener(ListenerContainer[NewListenerId]);
    }
}```

there is definitely a fork here in terms of what this does on first registration of a new perception component versus future updates.

[slow bobcat]

try calling RequestStimuliListenerUpdate from your AI as soon as it's possesed after swpaning, out of curiosity

it's a function in the perception component

[vagrant badge]

yay thats exposed to BP let me try

sadly didn't help. i am somewhat convinced what is happening is that it's caching the target in NewListener without firing an event, and then thinking it's already fired on every update

[slow bobcat]

That delegate doesn't fire constantly, only when things happens

[vagrant badge]

thats what i mean

[slow bobcat]

First detection, when the target moves etc

It's super weird you don't get the very first one. If you set a breakpoint in the code for the very first call, does it stop?

[vagrant badge]

if i'm forcing the UpdateListener through the RequestStimuliListenerUpdate and it's not firing, it must mean it thinks its already fired

yeah i need to give that a try

unfortunately my PIE and local server flow is broken since i did a platform orchestration integration 😦 need to fix that before i can get a debugger on this server side

maybe it's time for sleep heh

thank you so much for all the help so far dude

[slow bobcat]

no worries... let us know how it went

[tulip nova]

/job\

[misty wharf]

-+<job>+-

[coral widget]

can i use EQS for minions dont block each other?

[signal lava]

Hi, I have a EQS related question:
Is there a way to run EQS on client?

I'm using EQS out of AI context, I want to run my EQS locally around the vehicle to generate location where my player will be placed when he exits the vehicle.
I've setup all the logic, but after debugging I found out that FEnvQueryRequest::Execute returns

UEnvQueryManager* EnvQueryManager = UEnvQueryManager::GetCurrent(World);
if (EnvQueryManager == NULL)
{
    UE_LOG(LogEQS, Warning, TEXT("Missing EQS manager!"));
    return INDEX_NONE;
}

Seems like EnvQueryManager exists only on the server, as AI is mostly driven by the server.

[slow bobcat]

if you already have logic to modify a calculated path (you could use post process path I guess), you could use a custom eqs to check if you path goes to close to an AI, calculate points around said AI keeping some distance, then returning those points from the eqs and add them to your path (through that logic that modifies the calculated path). You will probably also keep track of the AI's that affected your path so you can re-path whenever they move. Will make path calculation expensive (will take long), but it's a start. Not sure how you will deal with the issue of re-calculating paths every time an AI moves and check if said AI's location is worth the re-path+eqs. I can see that logic triggering non-stop. It's doable, still better to implement stearing behaviours.

[polar copper]

I'm building a game that is stage based (there are rooms and the camera moves to each room upon completion). I need to have a navmesh in each and it needs to spawn the navmesh at runtime. I can't spawn an ANavMeshBoundsVolume and scaling one in the level doesn't work for us. The stages (actor) are also spawned at runtime (via button) so it needs to spawn with the actor. Any insight on this would be greatful.

[slow bobcat]

If you make each room a sublevel, you can have a nav bounds volume in each.
Then build the nav with all the sublevels visible (I'm assuming you are using Static or With Modifiers Only)
Whenever you stream-in a new level, the nav will stream in with it (and the other way around when you stream out)

[polar copper]

I should've lead with this portion of the game is for the level editor for players.

[slow bobcat]

so... you have a level editor that should "automagically" add nav volumes to cover the entire level?

[polar copper]

Not the entire level, but each room.

[slow bobcat]

do players use some form of construction block for the floors? like a tile or something?

[polar copper]

No, they just press a button to spawn the room and then they place things in it. When they press the button we're wanting to have the nav already in it.

https://files.treadwell.net/2024/11/PbKBZ7.png

Basically like this. 3 rooms and the nav would only exist in each room.

[slow bobcat]

ah ok... um... you are forced to use dynamic nav generation then. Can they scale the rooms? or are they predifined by you? as in "rooms are always 3x3 or 2x2 (depending on the "model" selected)"

[polar copper]

They can scale the rooms, but only at creation time.

[slow bobcat]

Then, whenever they finalize the setup, I'm guessing they have some accept button they need to click. It will be at that point where you will need to grab your nav modifier volume (either spawn it or grab one you have wich every room, that has the default size of the room) and scale it to fit the size set by the users. Since you will be using dynamic generation for the nav, as soon as you start playing in the room, it will generate nav for your volume

[polar copper]

Will try and report back. Thank you.

This is only doable in code right?

[slow bobcat]

can't say tbh. The only part I could see being a problem is the scaling of the nav mesh volume. The rest is just adding a nav volume to the levels you use as rooms

[harsh storm]

Create BTTask_RunStateTree and BTTask_RunDynamicStateTree that allows the execution of state tree in a behavior tree
Interesting 🤔 (5.5 changelog)

Nice. Nav stuff is being decoupled from the current movement components.

[coral widget]

what the best way to make ai dont block each other? and run around the other ai? which the perfomance dont cost much etc? waht is the best and easiest way? can someone tell me?

[misty wharf]

The easiest way is to just make them not block each other in collisions

By far the eaiest.

[slow bobcat]

Sounding like a scratched record, but here I go again, for the shake of helping:

• what you want to do is not easy
• crowd control does it as in it resolves them not getting stuck against each othebut they will always touch each other. It's an avoidance technique so, in theory, you could tweak the avoidance radius (I failed to get good results just with that in the past)
• your best shot in terms of results will be to apply stearing behaviors that will make AI's move around each other deviating from (or rather approximately follow) a pre calculated path.
• other techniques imply path modification around assets, like marking nav areas etc, which for AI's is very expensive

I looked out of curiosity what you meant by lol minions in YouTube and loos to me like a flocking behavior (aka steering behaviors)

[slow bobcat]

Oh but silvers doesn't want that. He wants AI's crossing paths to avoid each other elegantly without touching. You see what is wanted following the 10 times that the same question was asked, specially the first 4

Like a combined solution of crowd control + flocking

[misty wharf]

Right

Well, if that is too hard to understand as it sounds like, at least an alternative which is actually easy is available :D

[slow bobcat]

Crowd control does that, silvers applied (there's a video of it) but it's not enough. So I passed videos, talks, docs online, a github repo... All to get the same quesiton a day after. It's a lost cause until the pain of learning has been endured

[dense owl]

From what I’ve seen in other channels, the learning part never occurs for them, so better to just ignore and focus on helping others, so you don’t get caught up in their insanity 😁

[misty wharf]

maybe by asking again and again someone will give you the magic bullet MakeGame()

[coral widget]

waht is easy avaible

[misty wharf]

Make them not block each other in the collision channels as I said

[slow bobcat]

To be clear Silvers: this will cause enemies go through each other as if they were ghosts

[coral widget]

then 100ai and you only see 1 mesh? if no collision

???#

[slow bobcat]

Tempting but... I've been tedious due to me asking the same thing again and againg by not understanding how much I didn't know and someone had the patience to show me and forced me to pay attention and learn. And I'm thankful for those instances, so I should try become that person. Getting Balder that's for sure

[slow bobcat]

What? No... You see all of them but there isn't any physics collision among them

[dense owl]

I mean, sure, we’ve all been there at some point but in this case I don’t think any of the information is going in, ever. But hey, it’s your hair 😆

[slow bobcat]

Yeah...

[coral widget]

if i change colison? they dont block eac toher ? o.O

[slow bobcat]

You reaaaaaaallly need to sit down in front of the pc and understand what physics are, why things "block" each other, how movement is handled... For real. You need a certain base 9f knowledge to, at least, know what to ask and look for. You clearly don't have that. Which is fine, it comes with time.
They will not block each other but they will go through each other, not around, through each other.

[coral widget]

thorugh? through the mesh?

[slow bobcat]

Yes. Imagine you see 2 ghosts, they run towards each other and... They just passed through the other. That's what Zomg is suggesting

Many many games are fine with that. Others use Crowd Control (or rvo) to get that but without croshing meshes

[misty wharf]

I was using crowd in mine until it started getting on my nerves how it had so many random small edge cases where it behaved erraticly

then I just got rid of it and changed the NPC's to not collide with each other :p

[slow bobcat]

It's an approximation. Hard to get right in every instance. My experience is that it works combined with other techniques. By itself... Hard sell

[slow bobcat]

Age of empires style. Works for 99% of the games

[coral widget]

i dont udenrtsand what you mean

if they go trhug another

they have no collisonn?

they they will all go 1 line?

[slow bobcat]

They have no collision toward each other

[coral widget]

the dont run left or right

jsut straight up forwards

[slow bobcat]

That will depend on how you handle the movement but, mostly, they will overlap in one position. Do the test, put them in a line next to each other facing forward (like the start of a race) and make then all go to the same point. They will end up all overlapping at that one point

[coral widget]

thrat totally not wah ti want

the need to run avoid each other

if the go all forwad and then stop on distance 400

they will stat all at 1 place

its like you see 1 ai but there are 100

[slow bobcat]

Yeah we know, but you keep refushing the reality of what needs to be done

[coral widget]

like i said.

you same dont know waht are you talking

[slow bobcat]

Lol

Ok

[coral widget]

no collision -.- wtf

[slow bobcat]

Hahahaha

[coral widget]

no collision they jsut will run forward

[slow bobcat]

You are a case to study

[coral widget]

all through each other

[slow bobcat]

@coral widget this is the solution to your problem

For the Nth time

[dense owl]

you same dont know waht are you talking

[coral widget]

you same dont know how waht i have to do

every game needs this

[dense owl]

Bahahah

[coral widget]

ai dont block eac other

every game need this

why noone know about this how to do this

[slow bobcat]

I hope you succeed at some point and I wish I could pin this and be here for when that moment arrives (if)

[dense owl]

Sorry, forgot to mention it’s the kind of “idk anything so I keep asking for help but I think I know better anyways” delusion

[slow bobcat]

Trust me, most games don't do it. Check, you will be amazed.

[misty wharf]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Bruno has answered this a lot already lol

This is complicated, there is no checkbox you can set to make it work

:P

[dense owl]

bMakeGameWork == True

[slow bobcat]

Tbh, stearing behaviours would be a nice thing to have in unreal

[misty wharf]

Yeah

[slow bobcat]

Don't forget "onlineSupport == EMagic::Enabled"

[coral widget]

how can i make minions like league of leegnds

anyone ehre know it?

just give me idea or something cause there is no turoials in internet

nothing not any 1 tutorial

[slow bobcat]

Stearing behaviors.

There's your idea

[coral widget]

wow

that a kid can answer me

men how to make mesh

use blender

wow

[misty wharf]

which part of "this is complicated" do you not understand?

no one is going to be able to give you a step by step guide for this

[coral widget]

jsut a system or idea

behaviro treee?

grid path?

eqs?

[misty wharf]

he literally gave you an idea and you started mocking him

[coral widget]

etc etc

how can i make minions like league of legends

[dense owl]

I’m guessing we’re talking about steering tho

[slow bobcat]

Ah touche! That's the issue. My lack of English

[misty wharf]

lol

[slow bobcat]

Sorry, my bad

[dense owl]

Must have been the issue. Now silvers (probly an ACat alt) will understand, for sure

[slow bobcat]

This are all tools for things you combine. I guess:

• c++
• blueprints
• behavior trees to handle movement states

[slow bobcat]

proceeds to point to the video that shows what silver wants with a link to a github with code about how to do it
#gameplay-ai message

Have you put the time to make the github project work as I pointed with instructions + links to how to?

Because your most detailed answer, tutorial and help is there

You can also do like me: buy books (or pirate them, all the same), study them and, when one offers a solution for a problem you have, you put time to do the implementation yourself, applying everything you know about unreal: code, bp's etc etc. When hitting a wall of knowledge, stop and learn that one thing you need to continue

See... We all had to sit down and read, learn and code. Not everything has a bool in unreal

[coral widget]

yeah

you tell me thing si know when i was kid

when you ask me how can i change scale of mesh in blender

i can say you read learn and use blender

cool

i think you know nothign about coding

[misty wharf]

Being a jerk to people who try to help you is a great way to get more help

[coral widget]

the first question is when you satrt unrela is how to avoid ais

first quesiton every game seu this

if you dont know this... you know nothing

sorry -.-

he cant help me?

omg

he only can say waht chat gbt say or google say

[misty wharf]

Why are you being a jerk even if he can't help you?

[coral widget]

he dont need answer me

when i ask here question

maybe someone another guy here know how to do this

[misty wharf]

That isn't an excuse to be a jerk

[coral widget]

i ask for peoples here who know how i can do this

or any idea

[misty wharf]

Yeah nobody is going to help you if you are a jerk when people try to do that

[coral widget]

if someone here can help it would be nice to tell me

[misty wharf]

Good luck with that lol

[slow bobcat]

For real? OK, I officially drop the towel. I honestly don't kneo what do you expect. At some point you will reach a solution and you will realize I gave you the answers you seek from post one. Good luck with your games my friend

[coral widget]

i will never realize that

for suere you give right answer

if someask here somehtign i can say use c++

[dense owl]

🤣

[coral widget]

it would be right answer

if some ask me how to cahnge mesh

i can say use blender

its right answer of cousre

men lets stop talking all the time the same

i know i have to coe in blueprints and c++

[misty wharf]

https://tenor.com/fqlD8QP0azF.gif

[coral widget]

this already i know

lets stop talking bruno pls

stop

dont answer me again

[slow bobcat]

Just a small question: have you read through a deep explanation of steering behaviors and tried to implement it yourself? Because that's literally all you need to do

[coral widget]

maybe someone can help me here

[misty wharf]

Considering Bruno already gave you the answers you needed to solve this problem I don't think anyone can help you lol

[slow bobcat]

Ok ok I drop it. I'm kind of getting addicted and polluting the chat. Sorry people

[dense owl]

Just add a nice note to their profile and block, life is much easier this way

[misty wharf]

Discord did a great disservice hiding that note box behind another click in the user profile

[dense owl]

On mobile you just scroll down

[slow bobcat]

Nah no need. Desperation is your best companion as a programmer. Silver will jump to the keyboard and work in learning. You will see.

[misty wharf]

Yeah I don't think that's gonna happen or if it does he sure as hell isn't going to come here and admit to being an asshole for no reason lol

[dense owl]

You’ll be waiting for that a long time lol

[slow bobcat]

What's an "ACat alt"?

[misty wharf]

I vaguely recall a user with that name but I don't remember them being a jerk

[coral widget]

https://www.fab.com/listings/014c719b-b4ee-4818-994c-481e64f5e87e

maybe this can help me?

[slow bobcat]

Yep, that's what I have been suggesting all this time. You are on the right track

That's soemoen that read about steering behaviors (a paper by creig Reynolds to be precise) and implemented it

[misty wharf]

You know it's refreshing to see someone who wants to still help even if the other person is making it difficult... don't really see that happening much online in particular

[slow bobcat]

Man I'm not the smartest bulb in the tree. Had people being nice to me in my worst days. If anything, we all should learn that

[misty wharf]

Yeah

[dense owl]

It’s someone that hangs out in other channels and tries to make people go insane with their questions without retaining anything, all while pretending to know better. They got banned but are currently evading said ban. This silvers guy could be a completely different person but at this point it’s the same to me

[misty wharf]

lol

[dense owl]

It gets old fast

[misty wharf]

Yeah I usually stop at the point where they start being dicks

[dense owl]

I used to but my patience array index ran out of bounds

[slow bobcat]

Nah I come and go from this server. When I burn, I just don't reply. You can't do that at work hahab

[dense owl]

If only lol

[misty wharf]

There was/is (?) another user on #cpp who most people seem to think is an elaborate troll but honestly it seems they just have a different way of thinking from others lol

A complicated and not intuitive way to anyone else but it seems to work for them from what I've been able to glean

[harsh storm]

I don't think Hojo is a troll

😈

[dense owl]

Aye, some of these folk are actually capable of building stuff, just annoying to socialize with lol

[hexed plank]

Aye, so using the ARK: Survival Ascended DevKit to make a modded creature.
Currently have a basic "IsFollowing?" Deco that the creature will stop and stare at the player once they aggro onto them. Though, they stay stuck like this. (it's a recycle of an existing Deco that Wildcard made, that I copied and reworked)
Was wondering on how I can make the "IsFollowing?" Deco a temporary one, where after X-amount of time, it'll deactivate so the normal aggro function of attacking the player will continue.

[polar copper]

So doing it via invokers works.

[slow bobcat]

AAAH of course! I completely forgot about invokers! Good one

[zenith violet]

Hello everyone, Im learning behaviour tree atm and I want to use the bool thats in my BTTask so I can trigger an animation, but im not sure how do you get that since it always show "warning", Thank you o7

[earnest musk]

Are you going to show all of them on screen? Do you need to simulate their movement when they are off screen?

[slow bobcat]

Is it 3D or 2D like VS?

[slow bobcat]

Ummm then, for sure:

• you will have to handle movement your own way since movement component is gonna be way too expensive. If it was 2D is easier to do, 3D will be slightly more difficult. There are probably examples out there.
• use a imation instancing. The anim BP tick is expensive. At least you will be saving that time
• definitely switch off everything out of screen when possible

[silent hamlet]

You cannot reference a task in the animation BP, you should save that state on your pawn as a variable or a gameplay tag and then reference that in your BP. But this way you at using behavior tree to manage state which...could be tricky!

Also watch out, don't execute code after calling Finish task, I don't think that it will be executed

[rugged cloak]

Hi guys, I'm making a AI enemy which chase the player using sight sense. When the enemy see it, change the max walk speed. With the system that I made it works, however is there another way to change the character movement of the AI without using the "Cast to Standard Enemy" but using maybe the Blackboard? Is there a better way?
Thank you

[hoary peak]

"Better" would be very subjective here but sure if you wanted to change it from the blackboard you could add it as a BB variable and read it on tick in the base enemy class and no casting would be needed. Highly subjective if it's a better or worse solution though.

You could also use any class that all enemies know of that you are also able to easily fetch inside your setwalkspeed task that has a delegate and broadcast that event with the enemy and new walkspeed

[static flint]

@pine steeple sorry for ping but I've been trying to understand if it a bug in your code or is my understanding on how Decorator work is completely wrong
https://github.com/KaosSpectrum/KaosGASUtilities/blob/main/Source/KaosGASUtilities/Private/BehaviourTrees/KaosBTDecorator_IsInRange.cpp#L96
Here we have

== IsInversed()
and
!= IsInversed()

Which effectively ignores the inverse condition checkbox (?)
At least for me it doesn't detect when the object is out of range, only in range
More than that, when observer aborts is both is aborts everything every frame

[static flint]

Related:

[sacred stone]

Just to confirm something I've learned recently, for Decorators that do not observe a blackboard key, are they still able to abort other ongoing behaviors if their condition changes? Because the option is still there in the properties. From my tests it looks like they don't unless I explictly call ConditionalFlowAbort.

[slow bobcat]

That's how it works. If you look at the bbk decorator, it calls conditional abort flow based on the test results, but you can have your own test (I have a decorator that listens to a g.tag changes. If the tag exists it enters, if it's removed after, it aborts)

[sacred stone]

that is what I thought from my experience. I was looking recently, however, at this guy on youtube https://youtu.be/tSt52XWI_vU?t=1523 and he just makes a couple of decorators in blueprints and then sets them to abort when the condition changes. They don't observe any blackboard key.

and at 26:19 it looks like the AI agent actually reacts in real time to that? Unless the first MoveTo child of that selector finishes its thing, the tree gets evaluated again, the decorator gets checked again and it realizes the player is flying and then checks the next child node. Maybe that happens for him?

[pine steeple]

You are correct.

[coral widget]

bruno

i found a easy solution for my problem?

and you code 10years? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[static flint]

Thanks

[potent stone]

Hi all !

Should I use NavMesh for AI Navigation ?

Or is there a more performant way ? Like linetraces or something to detect obstacles ?

What are your advices ?

[dense owl]

Build, test, optimize

[ivory rune]

Hello, folks. I'm going to make a simple squad AI like if one member in the squad is attacking, other's just do different behavior except for attacking. So the question is, I want to do it with state tree and is there any recommended method to do with the state tree features? Do I still need to create a , for instance, subsystem to manage all those thing? Thanks.

[wraith robin]

[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: === Critical error: ===
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: 
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: Fatal error!
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: 
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: Unhandled Exception: EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION reading address 0xffffffffffffffff
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: 
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b572eb3f UnrealGame.exe!FNavigationDataHandler::RegisterElementWithNavOctree() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b57477ca UnrealGame.exe!FNavigationDataHandler::UpdateNavOctreeParentChain() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b5742df5 UnrealGame.exe!FNavigationDataHandler::UnregisterElementWithNavOctree() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b574678a UnrealGame.exe!FNavigationDataHandler::UpdateNavOctreeElement() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b570657b UnrealGame.exe!UNavigationSystemV1::CalcTimeSlicedUpdateData() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b5747cc7 UnrealGame.exe!UNavigationSystemV1::UpdateNavRelevantObjectInNavOctreeStatic() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b5744a20 UnrealGame.exe!UNavigationSystemV1::UpdateComponentInNavOctree() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b5de83c3 UnrealGame.exe!FNavigationSystem::UpdateComponentData() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b57b2087 UnrealGame.exe!UNavLinkCustomComponent::SetEnabled() []
[2024.11.15-08.01.07:563][244]LogWindows: Error: [Callstack] 0x00007ff7b599949b UnrealGame.exe!ANavLinkProxy::execSetSmartLinkEnabled() []

@crystal hatch
Calling UNavLinkCustomComponent::RefreshNavigationModifiers()(directly or indirectly) in PACKAGED (non-shipping) build crashes every time. In editor there is no warning, error or crash. Tested on fresh ThirdPersonDefault.

It does NOT crash on shipping builds, only with development or debug. See the BP graph, calling that in packaged debug/development build on active NavLinkProxy will 100% crash the game. This didn't happen in 5.4

[slow bobcat]

Nice. Care to share? Let me guess: a plugin somebody else did?

[slow bobcat]

I would recommend what is usually called AI Director approach. It's what Left 4 dead uses for example. Basically a main command center that gives instructions to your squad members. There are 3 types of communication messages:

• orders from the director to the units (ie: move here and wait, attack this thing etc)
• info given from the units to the director upon request (ie: do you have a target? What's the closest door you have nearby) <- some systems skip this message and have the director running the eqs when needed. I find it better to make the squad member run them themselves, that way you can paralelize info requests curated for each unit
• info units send between each other (ie: I'm going to shoot the target, you are in the line of fire, try move away) <- mostly for more advanced behaviors (at least in my personal experience)

Usually you can just start with the director and check if you actually need the rest

[elfin smelt]

I think there are replays of Bobby Angelov speaking about the choice of system design for cooperative AI.
I have done exactly all the things he said to NOT do and my life is a nightmare today for my game 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZXfDFb4dzc&t or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5A0-_4dFLg&t it's one of them (sorry for no Timestamps, I seen it a long time ago)

thanks bruno for all your answers. I don't have the problems of the answers' context. but just reading them is a great source of learning.

[slow bobcat]

Uuuh never seen this videos. Thanks for sharing. Weird I can see the links but, when I open his yt profile, they are not there. Will watch them

[elfin smelt]

It's in live category and not video

[slow bobcat]

Aaaaah. That explains

[elfin smelt]

I discovered it because 11 bit Studios Linked it in their talk at the Unreal Fest 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3bHkVDZuYU&t=5s

[dense owl]

Hopefully they learned how to do async saving while they were there 😁

[slow bobcat]

Ah right. Yeah I was there! From that talk, my favorite bit was how neat the ImGui debug tools they have looked and that they use imNet so the debugger can be a separated app from the game if needed

[elfin smelt]

not yet among the people experienced enough in my company to be send there but Yeah, I loved the talk. I used this talk to push the Visual Logger into the QA's process. So my life is a little easier since.

[slow bobcat]

Oh my company didn't send anyone... I booked holidays and paid for the thing myself.... I still hold a small grudge about it. Since it was just me, lots of talks missed in other areas

[slow bobcat]

Small advice about that: you can easily do a small hack in the engine so visual logger works in builds. You can use the cheat manager to enable/disable visual logger in builds. It will produce a VisLog file that you can later open in the editor. That helped me great deals when qa found weird combat bugs in the game. They would record and send me the file to analyse it.
Second unsolicited advice: hide every VisLog debug behind a CVar. For example, let's say you want to record debug for your attack bt task. You declare a CVar like CVarEnableAttackDebug that looks like "myGame.AI.EnableAttackDebug".Then in the code, in every place where you want debug do something like
#if ENABLE_VISUALLOGER
If (CVarEnableAttackDebug.GetValueInGameThread)
{
// your VisLog code here
}
#endif

Note: writtign from memory in my phone, macro might be different in reality

The when qa (or anyone) needs to debug that, they will first use the console command myGame.AI.EnableAttackDebug and then record with VisLog. There reason for this is that, if you don't do it, every time you open Visual Logger to record everything vis log related in the game will record. That makes things polluted with lots of info you don't really care at the moment. That and that having many many things recorder/being visualized will tank VisLog performance/fluidity. It's not a very optimized tool when it comes to debug drawing things.

This talk is really good too for visual logger appreciation
https://youtu.be/hWpbco3F4L4

[dense owl]

Well, debug drawing is not usually meant for use outside the editor so you can’t blame them for that 😁

[slow bobcat]

No no, I mean in editor. The vi's log enabled in builds refers only to recording and producing gthe file. That's fine. It's loading a massive file what doesn't work well

[dense owl]

Ah

I thought we’re talking about draw debut perf cause yeah

But aye vis log is great

[elfin smelt]

Wow, didn't know that, I will investigate this in my future. The not available in build part in build was for me the biggest flaw of the Visual Logger
I have some Navigation issues to manage first And I post pone it to 5.5 update but we won't be have it because too much issues (RAM exploded, Navigation Issues and crash random in Chaos initialisation). something like on 40 000 tiles. I have between two or eight tiles who got offsetted on the XY plane

Thanks for the source

[slow bobcat]

Yeah that sucks none the less. We have debug tools for runtime that draw stuff and uff... You can't get crazy. Same as when you draw skeletal meshes in visual logger... Can't go crazy or the editor tanks

[coral widget]

i have exact the same behavior like lol

[crystal hatch]

Thanks for reporting this. I'll notify the authorities 😄

[slow bobcat]

But how did you achieved it?

[coral widget]

you have to learn much! its very hard! EQS grid path... behavior tree

when ai is near other ai... take another path

etc

you learned wrong... 10 years... you have to learn new 10 years FROM BEGINNING

that i can say you

i dont give 1 click solution or my codes sorry

[slow bobcat]

Cool. Never to late to learn. Let me start with your approach: are you using a stearing behavior or a more nav-data based approach?

[slow bobcat]

You do realise you are being an utter asshole right? we (mostly me) provided you every known solution used in games with code, book references, articles, YouTube videos and advice over existing plugins. At least have the decency of share your way with others that might need it, specially after seeing yourself how tedious is to navigate the multiple options available.

You might want to double check a bit on that friend

[misty wharf]

The more you talk to this guy the more he comes off as someone who expects to be fed solutions without doing anything huh? :P

[slow bobcat]

This is exactly the type of people I always tried to dodge when doing interviews. I don't care how good/bad you are as far as you show effort, interest and partnership.

[coral widget]

i answer all your questions???

i tol ya waht to do

i can show you tutorial videos?

but i dont give you my codes??? no 1 click solution

we all have to learn and udnestand... and its hard to find solutions...

i tell you again

EQS grid path... behavior tree... and then many code... its not easy

but with tha you can do all with the ai

follow path change path when near enemy etc etc

there are many plugins... you have to udnertsnd them

you can buy 3 different plugins look how they did that! then combine all 3 plugins... take the code you need

its very much code

but i told ya how to do that...

with this system you can do everythign with ai you want!

everything!

[elfin smelt]

You know man that you maybe just be an idiot ? Game industry is small (Game AI world even smaller) and when you will ask for a problem this will be in your history ?

[slow bobcat]

So... You didn't use any reference materials others can follow? Gotcha. Amazing work my buddy. You might want to apply to Epic, their ai team is on fire lately, great moment to join and provide your talent to them

Seeing you did all from scratch

[slow bobcat]

Just... Skip this one for your own sanity

[misty wharf]

lol

There is clearly some level of language barrier here but yeah...

[sonic compass]

Hey guys! Super curious how heavy a single unit of AI is in a game. I am wanting to make an AI wasp however I can also steer away from it. I want to do it tho withoiut comprimsing the performance or having massive FPS drops.

[misty wharf]

This depends entirely on what your AI does and how it does it

[sonic compass]

it will be super simple Drone Ai thing (I think Gorka has a tut on it) with maybe a if cannot be seen retrurn to drone pathing or just recon mode

nothing crazy

or at least i dont think it is

[misty wharf]

If you're just gonna have one of them then chances are it will not have any impact whatsoever unless you're doing something completely crazy with it :)

[sonic compass]

i know next to nothing

aight cool man, thank u so much 🙂

[slow bobcat]

Then don't worry about anything. Have something working you are happy with and, if performance etc becomes a problem, then worry about how you did X or Y. The important part is to start rolling

[sonic compass]

ofc its just it's a project i know nothing abotu ai so i asked

thank u for the heads upo

[coral widget]

you mad?

i told ya everything?

i dont give you my solution my codes?

my game is big full of codes

i never show any code

about minimap .... not even about my anim montage

i show nothing?

everyone know this here? 😄 if i have question about my minimap

someone will help me... want see my code

i cant show thats my answer all people here know this?

people say to me allaways we cant help you if you dont show any code

and back to your questions

i told ya all you need!

with this what i told ya you can do everything... with ai you want

i can send you tutroails i sued

i can send you assets i bought

but i make a mix of all... not of thta will really help you

caus eyou have to learn from the beginning!

you leanred nothing in 10 years

if i sned you video you will nothing understand etc...

EQS Grid path there are many tutorials in youtube

BEHAVIOR TREE there are many tutorials youtube

the boid plugin what i showed you you can buy! i learned alot from them! i i take some code from this plguin... only the code is relevant for me and i need

i dont give you my codes. never. nobody! not even my parents ^^

[errant vortex]

Ok so, can someone help me explain how to get rid of those seams in the navmesh? It's 1 big dynamic navmesh with 1 agent

The problem is the agent will not cross these

It treats the "section" that it isn't on like it isn't there

on different heights they happen on the same y and x

but not everywhere

I had to place navlinks on a flat ground to allow it to walk through(??) but it's not ideal solution ofc

[coral widget]

if you understand this all systems ! you can do waht ever you want with ai!

https://www.fab.com/listings/014c719b-b4ee-4818-994c-481e64f5e87e

this can help you to very much... behavior tree etc... when ai is near other ai...

you have to udnerstand all this system ! EQS Grid path... behaviro tree...flocking etc

if you understand this all and you learn much... you can do everythign with ai....

then you only need to optimize cause someof this take much performance

[slow bobcat]

That answer wasn't even for you. You are picking a fight with someone else now

[coral widget]

??????

i jsut want help you?

i told ya all you need

its complex and much code.... but you can do this...

[slow bobcat]

That's super weird. Looks like the terrain is on different levels, but it's a flat surface right? Never seen that on flat surfaces

[coral widget]

the only problem you will have this much code... cost so much performance...

so could i help you? with my answer?

if you have specific questions... ask me

[slow bobcat]

I'm those conflicting areas (where the chair is etc), if you delete one asset (the chair nearby the weird area) and build, does the problem persist? Can you start removing assets one by one and see if, at some point, the problem is gone? My theory is that there might be a problem with one of the assets. Is there a connection like "everywhere the problem exist I use X element"?

[coral widget]

https://www.fab.com/listings/5d834580-fa67-4de2-82cf-8e12dc68e788

look for this! that help you very much

can someone tell me maybe? hpw i can optimize my performance?

i have many ai and its so hard lagging...? can soeoen tell me why its lagging and what can i do? -.-

[slow bobcat]

Your best tool is using Unreal Insights on a build. A development build will suffice (even though it will not be representative of the real performance of a released game, it will help a lot). Run unreal insights with statnamedevents and cpu traces. Then check cpu peaks in the game thread and you will see what takes time

[coral widget]

waht is unreal insight

someone told me the same

waht is this? how to use this?

at 100 ai the game is unpalyable the editor freeze

i need 200ai? and this is not even much why my game is laggin?

[slow bobcat]

I do have questions:

• how do you handle the end locations? Do each bot use one or do they all use the same?
• if the same location, do you calculate different paths to it for each bot or a single path and deviations from it? If different locations, how do you handle crossing paths?
• following the one single path for all to a single location (ignore the question if not the case) : do you apply forces to separate the bots and resolve collisions like RVO would do? In that case, how do you deal with bots pushing each other towards objects and/or outside the nav or the map? Or do you use a crowd control approach where nav is considered to avoid it?

[errant vortex]

As you can see it also happens on the first screenshot with no chairs, and even on stairs.
I've got a multi-floor building with navmeshes on every floor if that changes anything. And funny thing is it wasn't happening before

[coral widget]

my english is bad sorry i dont really understand your questions

[errant vortex]

but I ignored it for a long time, so I can't backtrack to when it was working

[coral widget]

my ai follow path until they reach enemy

but my game is unpalybale at 100-200ai?

200ai is much? why my game is unplayable?

[slow bobcat]

Ah... Ummm I think you might have a bad config for your nav generation and have the slopes being too conservative. As in: your nav doesn't consider planes with so much inclination and has to split it doing the best it can to cover for it

[slow bobcat]

This explains a lot of things. We should have started there

[errant vortex]

I was changing a lot of agent settings so that the enemy can walk up these stairs with no problem. Still a pain in the rear

[slow bobcat]

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=ue5+unreal+insights

[errant vortex]

you might be on a right track

[coral widget]

200ai is much?

at 100 it become unplayable

total lagg

at 150-200 its freeze cant do anythign anymore

[errant vortex]

I also got multiple navmodifiers to render some areas at high resolution but i doubt it's that

[slow bobcat]

Looking at that ladder, you might need to use a higher tolerance for slopes + tweak the cell height etc. There isn't too much documentation about these settings unfortunately. Trial and error + some things here and there in YouTube, code comments...

Usually for ladders nav links are the best option, the tweak the nav generation for your general flat surfaces, ramps etc. If somethn is too much for one and too little for nav links, maybe reconsider the map design to adjust the levels to your constraints

[errant vortex]

Thanks for some direction! I'll post these just in case end experiment a little. If you see any problems with these let me know, but I can't force you to look through someone's wall of variables 😅

[slow bobcat]

You need to tweak the other settings XD. There are 2 places. If you select the recast object in your level, you will see what I mean

[errant vortex]

It would be very hard to change map design at this stage, so I'm looking for a solution

[slow bobcat]

But do not tweak on the recast object itself, but on the project settings

[coral widget]

is it normal that my game got laggy at 100AI and at 150-200 AI its freeze? is this normal? is 200AI much?

[errant vortex]

The recast uses settings settings from the tile generation shown on 2nd and 3rd screenshot no?

[errant vortex]

yeah I know

I'll fire up a second project and see the defaults for these

[slow bobcat]

Yes. If you use pathfinding, character move component etc, even 30 cna be problematic in any modern console

[slow bobcat]

Good luck mate.

[coral widget]

what? how they code games with 10000ai?

without laggs?

[slow bobcat]

Not using Unreal

[coral widget]

200 is not much i think?

o.O

how they make game with 1000ai i dont understand

[slow bobcat]

Also I don't think there's a 10k units game, but I get your point.
Amazing how your English varies in quality BTW.

[coral widget]

my english is bad? didnt i told ya?

there is many games...

100ai every game had 100ai

or 200

every game -.-

why my game become unplayable i dont understand this? cause i use laptop?

[slow bobcat]

Unreal insights is the only thing that can give you the right answer

[slow bobcat]

Not really no. Maybe the Saber Interactive engine etc. You rarely have so many on screen and, even if you do, only a few will run

[coral widget]

every rpg has up 500 ai in sight and 1000 another palyers in town where the shopa are

i think other players cost more perfomarnce then a ai!

in rpg there are 1000 players in a point???

and 1 player cost more eprformance then 10 AI? i think

[slow bobcat]

Depends

All depends

[coral widget]

ai have codes

player can use everyhting

ever game has 100layer or 100ai?

if ther eis a game with 5 palyers then they have many ai

call of duty handle 1000 zombies? in zombie mode

with nice graphic and no laggs

nooo laggs! not even 1 with 1000ais ... -.-

men you only walking wrong things 😄

i dont discussion with youa bout game

ever ygame has 200AI+

every

dont talk about it anymore!

can you tell me why its lagging? is this normal????

[slow bobcat]

Prbably normal, we don't know how are you handling things. For the last time: use unreal insights. It's the toom that will let you know what is expensive and why

[coral widget]

for example

city asset from amrketplace

matrix cit sample

full city wiht 10000 AI in the best graphics i ever seen in my life

why its not lagging?

1000 cars 100 peoples... best graphic

its not lagging

i only have max 200AI and at 100 AI it become laggy and at 150 ai it become unplayable

there is nothign i can do only watch unreal insight? and see what cost much performance? o.O

[slow bobcat]

This uses mass. There are entire talks about how it's handled

[coral widget]

i cant understadn this call of duty is 20 years old 😄

high graphic 10000zombies without laggs

[slow bobcat]

You might want to head that way, learn how the matrix demo uses mass and try to adapt it to your system

[coral widget]

we are in 2025 and it salggy with 200 ai? o.O

[slow bobcat]

Because those 1k AI's are not running everything every frame. They are not all on screen at once, they use tricks like animation instancing.... Many techniques combined. Also that engine is not unreal

[coral widget]

so i can only watch unreal insight and see what take much performance?

[slow bobcat]

Your game lags. I have done a multiplayer game with up to 30 AI's in screen in unreal and took a great deal to optimise for series S and ps4 for example. Performance is the trickiest thing in the book

[slow bobcat]

Exactly

The link from. Before that you didn't notice
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=ue5+unreal+insights

Then with that info, you visit each expensive system and try to optimize it doing things differently

[coral widget]

i will tkae a look later in unrela isngiht

dont know waht it does and waht it is

[slow bobcat]

If you have time, try to reply some of this. Many people will be interested

[coral widget]

i know many people will beinterested

i search for this foor weeks 24/7 ...

i already explained all -.- if someone have specifi question i can give answer

i cant give my codes sorry -.-

[slow bobcat]

Those were specific questions that do not require code or anything. Just explain your approach.

[coral widget]

i did?

run from a to b find enemy when in range... make grid path eqs behavrio tree.... like flocking etc

[slow bobcat]

Aaah OK, flocking. Yeah makes sense. It's the common approach. So the plugins you linked are you using both or did you just took pieces form there here and there?

[coral widget]

i take pieces from all

i already explained you all

eqs / grid path/ behavior tree/ some plugins flocking etc

i told ya tha i took the codes i need from all

and now i can handle my ai like i want!

its jsut the eprformance they use

its total laggy... thtas my problem now

[slow bobcat]

Good job mate. See? You just needed appointment to the right places and work a little

You got this

[coral widget]

but my performance... the game is unplayable -.-

[slow bobcat]

Don't worry, check the performance tool and you will start seeing things. You can start by having just one single AI in an empty level, optimize it the best you can. Then place 30 or whatever number you see fit. And start again

Gonna take time and re-do things, apply techniques etc. Would be a good idea to start checking for gdc talks of games you like that dealt with similar problems, see how the organize things (gdc, unreal fest, tutorial online, books)

Game AI Pro books are free online and they have few chapters that might help for ideas

[near condor]

I am geeking hard every day the more I work on State Trees. I love this system so much

[harsh storm]

You can take my behavior trees from my cold dead hands

BT > ST ✊

[coral widget]

you dont know a solution atfer 10 years?^^

[slow bobcat]

Ask that to from software XD 30 years and games run like.... Yours more or less hahaa

[slow bobcat]

I was on your team. Now I'm divided. Will see by next year

It think they both have great and horrible things

[harsh storm]

https://tenor.com/brPBX.gif

[coral widget]

you dont know what cost much performance?

why this happen that my game so laggy

[slow bobcat]

Without looking to insights impossible to say, specially without knowing what you do. But imagine you had 200 guys without your logic, just moving with what ue5 has, biggest offenders will be:

• Character movement component
• animation
• physics (traces etc)

Add your logic on top (which is probably using at least 2 out of 3 in that list) and... Say good bye to your cpu budget

[slow bobcat]

It's just business

[harsh storm]

I am just really not a fan of the flow of ST's personally.

Constructing them is all fine and dandy. But the actual flow. Ehhhhh

[coral widget]

i dont need physics

why chracter movement take so much performance?

[slow bobcat]

Insights will answer this better than me. But mostly physics

[coral widget]

for moba games i dont need physics right?

and how can i turn it off?

[slow bobcat]

Depends on what you do I guess. You can't turn off physics perse, but you can not use things that relay on physics much. As soon as your enemies have capsules, they move around using the character movement component, you use physics. If you do lines traces, triggers, overlaps checks... You use physics. Hit detection is usually handled through physics too

[coral widget]

hm then every game need physics and character movement?

how they handle it? when it causes laggs? and youc ant turn it off?

every game need it then.

[slow bobcat]

Each game in a different way I guess. No way to know for sure. People profile their games and see what things they can skip, do less often, check what's more expensive, if X or B. That's very personal to each game

[coral widget]

how d you handle combat

player ... ai move to... on succes play anim montage and apply damage thats all?

[slow bobcat]

On a very very basic level, yeah. Then things escalate from there based on your game needs

[dense owl]

Still indulging the guy patronizing the people he’s asking for help from eh? 😆

[hoary peak]

I blocked him to be able to read the channel at all

[dense owl]

Same but kinda wish blocking would make his msgs disappear completely so we can pretend Bruno’s lost it and is talking to himself

[coral widget]

you mad?

[copper glacier]

I have a StateTree, and the states only have transitions as the result of events. However it seems like it is still going back up to the root and trying it again.

This is making it so I have to add condition checks to each state and that seems like wasteful CPU cycles, I was expecting it to stay in the state until the event was emitted, or an evaluator or something else changed, but that doesn't seem to be the case, is this a bug? (In 5.5)

Essentially I am using a state tree to control flow through a quest, determining what objective is active and transitioning to the next objective or whatever action.

The first state should assign the first objective, and then wait until an event is emitted before transitioning to the next state. But instead it was activating the quest on every tick, even though the only listed transition is an event tag.

I had to add the condition check there to say don't select this state if the objective is already active, and now it has to do that check every tick. Did I setup something wrong? Or is this expected?

[slow bobcat]

I'm so glad you confirmed you all can see it. Ufff not crazy

[west gorge]

Hmm... I have a simple issue that doesn't seem to be supported.

Here's my btree. There's a Simple Parallel that causes the character to walk towards the player as its main task, while shooting continuously in the background. The problem is that:

• If Move To acceptance radius <= collision distance: the AI will smash into the player at full speed and come to an instant stop, sending hair cards flying everywhere. If the player then gets hit by the shot and pushed back by the root motion hit animation, the AI will keep pushing in a jittery fashion as it tries to catch up with the moving collision capsule every 2 frames.

• If Move To acceptance radius > collision distance: the AI will correctly slow down gradually and stop out of collision range but will then complete the Move To task, thus also killing the background shoot task and stopping its attack.

The obvious solution is to replace the Move To by a selector that either Moves To or stands still depending on distance... but you can't do that, the main task must be a singular individual task.

What is the solution here? 🤔

[coral widget]

brunoooooooooooo 😄

[slow bobcat]

Last time someone was an asshole with an unknown potential candidate that didn't know better (good or bad), the dude took a different path. Just because no one was patient enough so he could see his frustration came out of fixable ignorance. The dude was an Austrian painter.

Let's all have just a better judgment for the shake of the expirement

[coral widget]

brunoooooooooo 😄

you mean hitzlerrr?

he was something 😄 after his dead the people will talk about him in the next thousand years?

and about you who will talk? ^^

dont be envious

the only thing in your life is coding 10 years of your life? 10 years for what? 😄

all you know .... about coding... everyone will know after 1-2months ^^

and that is the true 😄

and we all know the true hurts ^^

[dense owl]

You know, I was gonna answer but I think I can rest my case now based on the above 🤣

[coral widget]

watch tyson vs paul kiddies

[harsh storm]

@slow bobcat So, over the weekend, I'm going to dive in again with ST's. Last I used them was 5.1. Editor was very buggy back then for them. Constantly losing prop bindings and it was still highly in flux. Did always prefer writing a ST task over a BT one. Started poking around tonight and already found some bugginess and annoying crap.

The Root wasn't automatically transitioning to the first child state. Had to add a transition, play the game, exit, and then remove the transition. The StateTreeAI Comp's start logic automatically doesn't work. Have to call start logic in OnPossess (which is fine, you do that with a BT as well), but it can be frustrating when it isn't obvious that is the problem. I imagine it is because the context's are fully set up yet due to the controller potentially not having a pawn.

I also still have concerns on some potential race conditions for certain scenarios when a state has multiple tasks and one task relies on data from another.

[slow bobcat]

I'm printing this for the bad days. Dude hahaha no filter

[coral widget]

brunooooooo

dont lose again 10 years of your life -.-

for nothing -.-

trust me

[slow bobcat]

Yeah, the above is not happening anymore (at least for me), but the later... Maybe? I don't build logic with tasks depending on other tasks

[slow bobcat]

My furry friends

[harsh storm]

The easiest example being a Move To task needing a location or actor.

Yeah, you can raise an event, I guess. But bleh in some of those scenarios.

[slow bobcat]

Right... I have a different approach. The way I build things is more... A state tree decides on high level stuff (can you react to this, do you have a target meeting X considerations etc) and, if conditions met, run a bt. Within the BT we decide locations to move to and what not. For me (us) state trees are amother layer to split the problem

[harsh storm]

Funny, I would end up doing it the other way around most likely 😅

Where BT decides what to do and ST decides how to do it

[slow bobcat]

Yeah, totally valid. It's funny how everyone uses them in different ways. That's what I find the most interesting about St's. Add the fact that they are not tied to AIController or pawns... Marvelous

[rugged cloak]

Hi guys, I'm new in the Behavior tree; I'm trying to make an AI enemy behavior tree that have a specific patrol path, but when see the player it starts to chase it. However if the player is in the bushes, the AI moves to the lastknownlocation and come back to patroling.
I'm trying to find a solution for this system.
Somebody could help me please?

[harsh storm]

I'm trying to think of other ways to use them honestly. But I don't want to have a bunch of ticking state tree components. Need to see if the state tree still processes events even if it isn't ticking.

[slow bobcat]

Don't know in 5.5 but nope. St's are tick dependant. To be more precise State Tree Execution Context dependant

[harsh storm]

That's wack

[slow bobcat]

(insert it's what it is gif)

[harsh storm]

The gist is pretty much, when your AI loses sight (perception gives an event for this kind of stuff) you just move to the last known location of the player. To get the player to be "hidden" by the bush, you could make it where the bush blocks AI line of sight.

[rugged cloak]

Yes but I don't know how to make it🥲

this is the decorator

[coral widget]

ok guys

i cant fix the laggs

how can i make a game when everythign is lagging -.-

no of you had any handle 200ais?

in years of coding?

when i code 1 month i handled 500ais 😄

no one handle 200ais here?

what the tricks? to fix performance???

[harsh storm]

By using perception. Your perception will trigger an event when it loses sight. Then in there, set up the BB key that you need.

[rugged cloak]

THis is my AI sight perception

[coral widget]

guys did you ever use 200 ai +?

is it laggy for you?

[rugged cloak]

Like this?

?

[slow bobcat]

I struggled getting 30 being on screen, performant and reactive few years ago for the previous gen of consoles. 200 is just ludicrous to me

[keen grotto]

Could folks confirm that the default use of EQS does not expect the query to complete during the same tick, but instead it's almost always expected to return on the next frame or beyond?

There's a function in C++ (not accessible by default to BPs) called RunInstantQuery which seems to rturn right away, I think, but the comment warns you not to use it for understandable performance reasons.

    /** alternative way to run queries. Do not use for anything other than testing
    *  or when you know exactly what you're doing! Bypasses all EQS perf controlling
    *  and time slicing mechanics. */
    AIMODULE_API TSharedPtr<FEnvQueryResult> RunInstantQuery(const FEnvQueryRequest& Request, EEnvQueryRunMode::Type RunMode);
    AIMODULE_API void RunInstantQuery(const TSharedPtr<FEnvQueryInstance>& QueryInstance);

[coral widget]

guys

i cant watch tyson vs paul

its algging?

netflix got crashed?!?!?!

[slow bobcat]

I can confirm. Queries are added to a queue and processed the next frame. Results given through the delegate on query finished

[stiff gale]

How games like AC Origins can have so many AI characters? Do they spawn as player nearby or they are always there but with very low tick and hidden mesh?

[misty wharf]

It really depends on game, if it's just filler characters to make places look lively, they most likely only exist near the player long enough for it to look believable

[stiff gale]

They have enemy and animal AI which can interact with players

[misty wharf]

I'm not sure what the question here is :)

You can have quite a lot of them in UE also but it needs a lot of work

[stiff gale]

It effects the FPS a lot

having 50 ai

[misty wharf]

Yes, hence the "a lot of work" part

I think Mass can help with it but I'm not familiar with it myself so can't say for sure

[misty gale]

Also depends on hardware

Plenty of optimizations to do

What is 'many' in ac origins ? Cant recall ever seeing any decent amount of actual npc/animals

[stiff gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a09vnDjmY_E

[slow bobcat]

Chapter 20 in the 1st volume of this book series is a general setting for AI optimization quite common in games. Volume 3 has another chapter to handle spawning of AI's in games through the handling of Spawners (objects that handle spawning data). If you combine both approaches you will start with a very good base to achieve such results. Then add a layer of unreal specific performance fixes (physics, animation simulation, character movement component etc etc) and you are in a pretty good spot. Tons of work and learning of the engine itself, but not other way to handle it.
https://www.routledge.com/Game-AI-Uncovered-Volume-One/Roberts/p/book/9781032343235?srsltid=AfmBOorHee3KILGN3p5z5V1PAmpsuhadBb3KfTVNbF5V-zNKtaeS4o12

The book series are being released bit by bit, very worth the money

Not saying "this is what AC does" but I bet it's a very similar approach

[copper glacier]

When using a StateTree transition, it works fine unless I tell it to delay the transition by any amount, then the transition never happens, is there something specific that needs to be done to support that?

It's an Event Transition, and was hoping, Event happens -> some configurable delay -> transition to new state.

[jolly violet]

Can anyone link a BTT where an enemy runs away from player character when it sees/hears him?

I cant for the life of me find a guide or make a BTT with a fleeing AI

[bleak drift]

How does the StateTree Move To task work, will it instantly succeed or only after the destination is reached?

[elfin smelt]

I don't know video with a Behavior Tree in it for fleeing AI (I assume BTT is for BT). but it's actually not really hard to prototype a behavior like this
If you have a functional PerceptionComponent,
you can Set Boolean Value in an AI's Blackboard to enable a Behavior Tree branch for Get a Fleeing Location and then Move to (in this case, your AI need to have a Behavior Tree running)
Or, just Ask to run a fleeing Behavior Tree when your AI Raise a PerceptionComponent event.

To get a fleeing Location for proto, you can Get a random location on Navigation or put Actor in Level to have an Actor Array of existing fleeing location for a more scripted behavior.

I don't know your wanted behavior but a basic fleeing Behavior would be a sequencer with 3 or 4 Tasks like

• Play surprise animation
• Get Fleeing Location
• MoveTo
• Play Scared Animation or Rotate to face threating Location ?

[coral widget]

i need all ai i need all tick event etc

i cant take osmething off

and its lagging?

so waht can i do now? -.-

i dont have even much code... i just have 200ai tick event etc... tahts all and its unplayable

[slow bobcat]

You could batch them. So... Basically tick 10 AI's each frame. It will take 20 frames for all of them to tick. That will help a lot already. Then analyse what your tick does and see if there's anything you can remove into an async operation making things as event driven as possible. Then analyse your game with unreal insights and see what things are most expensive, how can you make them cheaper (it will depend a lot on your game's code)

[slow bobcat]

I have never used or checked delays in transitions, curious abut it too. What I would have donde is to delay the FinishTask(true) call in the task that triggers the transition

[slow bobcat]

https://youtu.be/zovPQnq7ndE

[coral widget]

i have clean project

without code

i have 15 fps???

[elfin smelt]

you don't need to have a big project to have performance issue.
Lets Say, I draw a debug sphere on tick on a given location, I will have a performance issue without any AI or Character in the level and just one blueprint node in a level blueprint.

You need to decrease your AI tick (Behavior LOD could be a potentiel Start or Batching Some tick to ticks AIs only for a given time each frame to don't pass under a certain framerate)
or if Each AI compute something, you can try to compute the thing for all the AI one time. (for example, if each AI run an EQS with pathfinding test in a behavior each frame. you can try to run the EQS one time and save the result and each AI will use it)

But as Bruno Said, Performance issue is really game specific and you need to find where the bottleneck is.

[slow bobcat]

Maybe the resolution and project settings are too high? Use stats commands to check if you are cpu or gpu bounded (check Google how to use them)

[coral widget]

which settigs do you mean?

[slow bobcat]

https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/how-do-i-lower-the-graphics-settings-for-the-editor/310613

Scalability settings. You might be running things for a beefy pc in your laptop

[coral widget]

when i set scalabilit ysttings low i have 25 fps -.- and its lagging... why does i have so many laggs is this normal????

[slow bobcat]

Check insights. You can use it with the editor too. It will let you know. Have you use the commands I mentioned to see if you are cpu or gpu bound?

Out of curiosity: specs of your laptop? Maybe it's just a bit week for unreal in general.

This empty project, is it a template from the engine like the 3rs person character template or something you set up with a few of your own things?

[coral widget]

how can i have low fps on clean project?

with no code?

create a new project top down and tell me waht fps you have?

you must have 60! not even 59! it must be60 on clean project!

[slow bobcat]

Well... I get 120fps because I cap it to the monitors refresh rate . It's probably way more, but that's because my office pc is beefy as fuck. Hence my quesiton about your hardware. What cpu/gpu do you use?

[coral widget]

so why i have clan porject 25 fs??? this is impossible?

[copper glacier]

Yeah that's what I ended up doing initially, but then I realized my problem. So I had a left over Delay Task there, and when my event would come through, it would immediately transition if I didn't have a delay set, but if I set a delay, then I think it was getting "cancelled" by the delay task finishing which essentially re-tried transitions.

Removing the delay task, and keeping the delay on the event transition itself seems to work.

[slow bobcat]

Perfectly possible if your pc is not good enough. Post your hardware specs, let's see if it's reasonable

[coral widget]

here

my system

lap top

gaing lap top

gaming laptop*

[slow bobcat]

It's and old-ish i5 with a 3050. Shouldn't run that bad I think. Could it be you are using the integrated gpu instead of the dedicated one (the 3050). I think there's a setting in the nvidia control panel to force it to use the 3050 always. But this topic is not and AI one, so post your issues in the right one (no idea if there's a hardware channel)

[coral widget]

why i got 25 fps on clean project?

did you knwo difference bewteen game and clena project?

clean projcet dos ahve any code?

1 litlte ltitel map with 1 character wihtout code

why i have 25fps it simpossible

25fps = lagg on clean project

[slow bobcat]

But there's something definitely off since I have develop an AAA on a Intel i7 10 series with a 2060ti and it run projects with simple levels at 60fps

[coral widget]

i even set scalabiltiy low

how can i have 25 fps

can you test 200ai? you should not have laggs with 500 ai

im sure thtas the reason why i ot allgs at 100ai

im sure you dont get laggs with 500 ai..

[coral widget]

so my laptop is to low for unreal??

i think the 200ai is not the problem with laggs and fps

on clean projcet i have 25 fps ...

the problem is anotehr thing but idk what it is

my ram is on 70% and my cpu is only on 20%

why my fps is so low when my cpu is on 20% -.-

[slow bobcat]

This is a hardware issue. Please use the right channel. Almost sure you are using the integrated gpu in you cpu instead of your nvidia gpu, but you need to use the commands that show gpu stats

Try at #profiling

[dense owl]

I know you’ll disagree but imo it wouldn’t be a huge loss if they quit UE because they couldn’t run the engine anymore 😁

[slow bobcat]

Check if your wall hast the "can ever affect navigation" set to true

[rugged cloak]

Hi guys I have two questions:

• what is the difference between Radius and Acceptance Radius?
• what are their unit in the real world?

[harsh storm]

Radius - this is how big of a radius you want to search for a random point on the navigation mesh
Acceptance Radius - how close to the target destination you get before it is considered a "success"

All units are in cm in UE

[coral widget]

my hardware should be enough

[coral widget]

i have gaming laptop

on clean project i should have easily 60fps

easily ... it cant be ahrdware

here gpu stat

[slow bobcat]

Again, wrong channel. Go to #profiling so you don't pollute the AI channel with unrelated to AI stuff please

[dense owl]

Revisit #rules @coral widget

[coral widget]

its not hardware guys -.-

a computer from 1980 had 60fps ona clean project

[dense owl]

nothing to do with #gameplay-ai , stay on topic

[coral widget]

ai take huge performance

did you ever make a game with 500ai?

did ever code soemthing?

can you tell me if it slagging for you?

[dense owl]

AI does not run on your gpu.

[coral widget]

im not tlaking aobut gpu -.-

its jsut theories from brunooo

[dense owl]

and you need to learn proper #profiling to determine the actual cause of your bad perf, as you've been told many times before

no, it's you trolling every channel you can find with your nonsense

you've been warned many times

[coral widget]

can you tell me if you ever code something?

500ai for example?

is this laggs normal?

wait i show you video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoTqfHgs-5Q&t=1318s

look exactly this

at 5k ai he got 5 fps and the game freeze?

and this is ecatly my problem

but i got this at 100-150 AI -.-

exactly the same... i drop to 5fps and its freeze

with 100ai i have 8 fps... full of laggs

[dense owl]

it's not necessarily the AI, it can be anything from movement component, to animations, etc. on your actual characters/pawns

hence the need to do proper #profiling

[coral widget]

i delete all events

i try find out.

i only have ai and 1 code.

[dense owl]

you're taking wild stabs in the dark

[coral widget]

event begin play---> ai mvoe to location

[dense owl]

you will never build anything that works this way

[coral widget]

thats only code.

he have 5k ai and then its freeeze...

[dense owl]

do the work as you've been instructed or stop asking

[coral widget]

here is ai channel?

cant you answer me if its normal taht 200 ai laggs?

did you ever code something? o.O

200AI is not much

its jsut normal... to ahev 200 AI

[dense owl]

it can very well lag yes

[coral widget]

did you get laggs with 200?

o.O

[dense owl]

yep

[coral widget]

never...

so waht do you do if it laggs? and you need 200 ai

[dense owl]

you profile.

[coral widget]

men.

i dont ave code

i jsut have 200ai

begin paly run to lcaoiton

thats all

i can only delete character mvoement... and mesh 😄 thtas all i have

i ddelete all code!!!

tehre is no event tick nothing

just begin play-----> ai move to location xxxxx

its impossible that it laggs -.-

and i have gaming laptop... it simpossible -.-

[pine steeple]

200 ai will 100% cause FPS issues

without any optimization

[dusky lodge]

@dense owl There is a clear language barrier issue here as well. If you cannot get through to a user, then just stop conversing with them.

[dense owl]

Some, sure, but if you look at their entire message history, you'll probably notice this is not the main issue. It could be a health thing tho, for sure.

[dusky lodge]

They are on their second strike, so if they continue after this, they are gone.

Id recommend you just not talk with them in the future.

[dense owl]

tbh I had them blocked, but decided to answer that time, for some reason, so that's mb 😅

[covert solstice]

hes probably using mass or vertex/bone animation

or turbosequence

[slow bobcat]

@coral widget 3 days ago (and since then, multiple times), we told to use Unreal Insights and to move your questions to #profiling.

From that message I'm replying to onwards, I replied with several recommendations and explanations about why your game might be lagging. Please follow the suggestions, move to the right channel and stop polluting this channel.

Stop asking about 200/500/5000 AI's until you have profiled please.

You can't even run an empty project at 60fps. Figure that one out first.

Also: "I don't have code" but... You have a move to call. That's code. You have animations? That's code.

Update: very low ram (16gb vs the recommended 64gb) causes a lot of cache operations, forcing the cpu to swap data in between ssd to ram to L-caches and back constantly That can impact performance massively

Last warning: move to the right channel or face reporting every single message about performance of your oc/project in this channel as spam.

[slow bobcat]

That barrier is fictional. The person in question understands perfectly well whenever the answer is interesting for them. It's mostly a problem with being polite, having good manners and try the solutions before asking several times the same quesiton like a frenetic person. Happened with their first problem and it's happening again

[near condor]

I found this in the search as I am running into the same issue in 5.4 lol

UE is sitting right now at 44.7GB of RAM usage.

[rugged cloak]

Hi guys somebody knows why my navmesh flickers when AI enemies move?

[slow bobcat]

Any chance you can record a video? What you show in the images is not neccesarely bad/wrong. It might just be the debug draw of the nav. Some relevant questions:

• what type of nav config do you use? (static/dynamic with modifiers only/dynamic)
• have you checked if your re-build nav process is being triggered when the ai moves? It if does, can you check if your AI has any component with the "can ever affect navigation" flag on?

[rugged cloak]

There should be some Z fighting going on. It's just a visual error

[near condor]

I think I am being too conservative with ticks for EQS Queries.

If I have an AI who is alerted to where the player is, to keep track of the player location, I have it update the location every 2 seconds rather than a much lower number rate...

Am I being too strict with the numbers? I know it is a loaded question and I can test with my own project, but do any of the others in this channel have stuff like location updates ticking every 60th of a second?

[coral widget]

Bruno my gpus is on 10% my cpu 25% only my 16 ram is on 95% ? so only my ram is causing this laggs?

i have 16gb?

somehting is totally wrong?-.-

my gpu and cpu is on 20% max

[slow bobcat]

Reported as spam.

[slow bobcat]

I do. It's very rare that AI needs constant updates. Usually players do not notice decision changes within +-0.5s. My approach is to set things as low as possible (2s as you do) and, if nobody complains, leave it like that. There will be cases where you need immediate actions, like blocking a hit or something

[coral widget]

??? when my gpu and my cpu is on 20% how can i ahve laggs its impossilbe? -.-

you told me its gpu ?

but tis on 10-20% o.O

[slow bobcat]

Reported as spam

[coral widget]

why? can you check your fps on lyra game maybe bruno?

[slow bobcat]

Reported as spam

The explanation
#gameplay-ai message

[coral widget]

okay i have 3 fps on lyra starter game i cant even move...

im happy the laggs come from antoehr problem liek i told ya....

so my game should not lagg the problem is 100% another

my hardware is strong enough for this ...

3fps on lyra starter game is impossible

https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/ue5-not-fully-utilizing-gpu-or-cpu/778884/2

he got 50fps i have 3 fps

i have same hardware...

i have better graphic card

its impossible that i have 3 fps

[tough sequoia]

(Machine translating)
Dies ist eine maschinengenerierte Google-Übersetzung:
@coral widget vor 3 Tagen (und seitdem mehrmals) haben wir Sie aufgefordert, Unreal Insights zu verwenden und Ihre Fragen ins #profiling zu verschieben.

Ab der Nachricht, auf die ich antworte, habe ich mit mehreren Empfehlungen und Erklärungen geantwortet, warum Ihr Spiel möglicherweise verzögert ist. Bitte folgen Sie den Vorschlägen, wechseln Sie zum richtigen Kanal und hören Sie auf, diesen Kanal zu verschmutzen.

Hören Sie bitte auf, nach 200/500/5000 AIs zu fragen, bis Sie ein Profil erstellt haben.

Sie können nicht einmal ein leeres Projekt mit 60 fps ausführen. Finden Sie das zuerst heraus.

Außerdem: „Ich habe keinen Code“, aber ... Sie haben einen „Move To“-Aufruf. Das ist Code. Sie haben Animationen? Das ist Code.

Letzte Warnung: Wechseln Sie zum richtigen Kanal oder zur Gesichtsberichterstattung.

Anmerkung des Übersetzers: Bitte senden Sie mir keine Nachrichten. Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Sie wurden gebeten, Ihre Hardware zunächst mit dem Unreal Editor zu überprüfen. Gehen Sie zu #profiling

[coral widget]

its not insight its not profiling!

its nothign of them and i happy about this

cause my game should not lagg the code is ok.

the problem is 100% another but idk what

i dont need insight and profiel im happy about that agian. cause my game should not lagg i dont have to chagne the code

the problem is 100% another.

maybe someone can help me? to find the problem ...

i even have 1fps on lyra starter game

you can run lyra game on a pc from 1999 and it will work. for sure

i have 1-10fps on lyra.... that is impossible!!!!!!!

[slow bobcat]

For real, I'm this close to report your discord user. Stop asking performance stuff here. Go to the damn Profile channel. If you ask for advice there, they will gladly help you an explain why things happen

Holy shit dude... I'm usually patient but you are a special case

[coral widget]

lyra : 1-10 fps my game : 15-20 fps so im happy

my game have less eprforamnce then lyra.

and lyra dont have laggs

so im happy ... its not insight. its not profiling. it snot change code

but how is this possible... anyone know here?

anyone can help me?

[tough sequoia]

You aren't listening. Ask in the #profiling.

Whatever you think it is or isn't, you haven't asked yet. Don't type 5+ messages saying it's impossible or comparing FPS. Just go to the channel and ask. Or saying your gaming laptop or 50 AIs or 15-20 FPS or saying its impossible isn't helping. At this point, everyone you're seeking help from is going to block you for just spamming. Don't reply to me, just go to #profiling and at least pose the issue there.

[neon atlas]

HI! What is the best way to become an AI developer without a computer science degree?

[harsh storm]

The same way as anything else. Build shit.

[coral widget]

oh my god

[coral widget]

i lvoe you brunoooooo

i had 1-10 fps on lyra

now i have 60 fps!

sometimes 59 fps but mot tiem 60 fps without any lag!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brunnoooooo i love youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[neon atlas]

yes but is it possible to be competitive in the industry?

[harsh storm]

Yeah

Just don't suck

The big challenge is getting through HR filters

Because there are places that won't even see your application because you don't have a degree

[neon atlas]

but need c++?

[harsh storm]

Of course

[neon atlas]

Programming AI only with blueprints doesn't go very far, right?

[harsh storm]

Not if you're trying to get hired

[neon atlas]

what does a junior AI programmer do?

[harsh storm]

Junior stuff. You won't escape C++ if you're trying to be a programmer in UE.

[slow bobcat]

Small stuff and features with an overseer checkign everything you do (a senior or a lead). You are expected to not know jack shit, but to put enough interest and effort that you will get things done bit by bit. Then reaoonaabilities will grow while you get the jist of team work, how production works, meetings, soft skills etc

[neon atlas]

it's easier to get an AI dev job with a good AI knowledge but basic c++ knowledge or good c++ knowdlege but with low AI knowdlege? @slow bobcat @harsh storm

[harsh storm]

Learn 👏 C++ 👏 if 👏 you 👏 want 👏 to 👏 be 👏 a 👏 programmer 👏 in 👏 Unreal 👏

Stop trying to figure out the shortest route.

Build stuff

Stop talking.

Build

Go build a custom state machine in C++

Go build a heat map in C++

Go build a behavior tree in C++

Just. Build. Shit.

Having all the knowledge in the world about AI means jack if you can't actually build the AI

[neon atlas]

Thank you for your clarifications, I'm not looking for the simplest way, I'm looking for a specialization after years of generalist

[coral widget]

you dont need c++ ^^

[dense owl]

smh

[rugged cloak]

Hi guys, do you know how is the better way to make a horde of enemies not run in a straight line, when the follow the player?
If you have also a video is good
Thanks

[dense owl]

Try the DetourCrow Ai controller

[rugged cloak]

IT WORKS 🥹
Thank you, now I read the documentation

[rugged cloak]

There is not a lot of documentation for that... Do you know soem good tutorial or page for it?

[dense owl]

Not really

The source code is about all the docs for it

[velvet apex]

Anyone have to work with the new NavigationElement class they added in 5.5 to navmesh generation? Ported our project to 5.5 and things are pretty smooth, except nav mesh generation explodes because the geometry validator (non-shipping only) is complaining about trying to resolve a weak pointer on a non-game thread. However, the entire stack (on the background thread) that blows up is engine code and not our code.

Obviously its something specific to us or more folks would be complaining, but as far as I can tell we simple did some different tile sorting in a recastMeshGenerator and thats about it

My guess is maybe bDoFullyAsyncNavDataGathering and editor time don't get along anymore

[graceful wind]

hi guys, in case I want to make my own path finding algorithm, what is the best practice to access navigation graph data structure? is it using nav mesh data? or is there any better UE nav data I can utilize to achive this?

[slow bobcat]

What Durox answered. I was a programmer in java for stuff not related to games, then I did a masters where we had to build our engine and a game on top with c++. That was hard for me because I had never did c++ before (did C in my studying years tough). Knowing c++ not only allows you to be an unreal dev, but you can be a game dev everywhere (there are tons of companies using their custom engines). Learning AI is a matter read, try, repeat.

[slow bobcat]

Please don't give this kind of advice. That's not true if you want to join any profesional game dev role as an AI programmer.

[slow bobcat]

This one is tricky.
Basically you have 3 elements in unreal:

• the PImplRecast class, which overrides and calls functions from the Recast Detour library. This is where the data is processed (paths calculated, string pulling, operations to get the closest poly to a location etc)
• the RecastNavMeshObject: this is where all the nav data is generated stored. There are also functions for nav operations (mostly exposing things from the above)
• the nav system, which connects gameplay to the nav data (with functions to get paths etc etc). It's the highest layer of the puzzle.

There are other related things like the path following component or the move requests (which contain the path info), but those are used once you have a path mostly.

Now, your main problem is that you need to either create/override functions in PImplRecast or in another class of your own to override what the detour recast library does. And that's not convenient because none of that was built in a user friendly way, aka: you need to modify the engine source code and maintain changes when upgrading it.
All that assuming you want to keep thing in the same place as they are.

But, if you just want to use some other class with your own logic, everything you need is in the Nav Recast object in unreal, the nav data.

[graceful wind]

Man, thanks a lot, this is surely reduced the scope I need to dig in. I will take a look on this PImplRecast implementation

[slow bobcat]

If by any chance you find a not very intrusive way to replace that file for a custom one, please let me know. It's something I'm very interested into

[graceful wind]

Is this not common thing on ai dev? I am not sure if I can actually. basically I need to generate a guide for my AI for some action. and this involved nav mesh, because it is not possible for me to trace everything on the map from stratch, I am taking a look on EQS too, it is awesome feature. I think it would be more flexible if I can find a way to read and play around with nav data

[slow bobcat]

Cna you describe an example of what are you trying to achieve exactly? Maybe I can help/advice/suggest soemthing. Or at least I can be your rubber duck

[graceful wind]

Silly reason actually, I use GameAnimationSample for my locomotion. On UE 5.5 update, It doesn't work with AI move, but when I move the character manually using add movement input, it works. So I was thinking why don't I create my own path for this purpose and move the AI manually

[slow bobcat]

Ah... You don't need to. Just use the default path calculation and use it. There are functions in the navigation system class to get a path from A to B. It will return a FNavPath with all the points and info. Then you can do whatever you want with it. I would even argue that just might need to mess with the AIPathFollowingComponent

[graceful wind]

Man, sorry to troubled you, I am too eager to create my own

This one right? I can even access it on blueprint

[slow bobcat]

Yeah. Check if you can use the Async version. Unless you need the path in the same frame, it's better to use the async, cheaper on the game thread

[low stump]

Is it possible to have two nav meshes present in a level?

One which is a static, low res, and permanent navmesh which is built in the editor. (This is what I want)

And another one which is a fully dynamic high res navmesh which it built at runtime using nav invokers? (This is what I have, but I also want the one above)

Because what I want to achieve is a way to make my npc travel across very long distances but with my current setup ***(A navmeshbounds that covers the entire level and a dynamic navmesh with generation only around invokers) ***it's not possible for the npcs to pathfind across long distances since the navmesh isn't generated that far.

[coral widget]

this people never code somehting 😄 this people neve rused 200 ai wtf 😄 in 10 years 😄

this guys talking me about profile insight when i have 5 fps on lyra 😄

i can ask a kid 5 years old theere answers would be better.

planet is full is this senselss people dont know anything

[misty wharf]

You can have multiple navmeshes but not entirely sure whether one can be dynamic and the other not. This is kinda obscure/deep knowledge, I would look at whether the dynamic rebuild setting can be somehow applied on a per navmesh basis for starters

[harsh storm]

I don't think you can have them be different types. It is a project wide setting.

[misty wharf]

You can customize which actors affect the navmesh generation, so maybe you can use that to make it so only one of them is affected by the actors you want to affect the dynamically generated one https://zomgmoz.tv/unreal/Navigation-System/Customize-which-actors-affect-navmesh-generation

I've used this in my game to create a secondary navmesh which is used to perform some additional reachability checks, where it ignores certain kinds of things for it

but in my case they are both still dynamic

[slow bobcat]

You can't have two types mixed. That said, epic sneakely released a experimental feature for long distance navigation. Basically a data tree that connects areas. Can't recall the name. Will Google it / ask around. It's pretty much what dead stranding uses

[pallid mica]

Keep in mind that two NavMeshes, as nice as that sounds, also eat quite the chunk of performance/RAM.

We had 2 on The Ascent and I was so naive to add a third one, for again different settings.
:D We undid that pretty quickly.

[misty wharf]

That reminds me I should finish that game sometime

[pallid mica]

Me too

[misty wharf]

Yeah cos it's kinda buggy still?

[coral widget]

yesterday i had 60 fps on lyra

[misty wharf]

lol

[low stump]

I know... I just can't seem to figure out how to do long distance travel

[coral widget]

after i delete all clean all laptop reinstall widnwos etc

i have 5 fps again -.-

what is causing this?

[pallid mica]

Beats me. Think our contact ended shortly before release.

[misty wharf]

heh

[coral widget]

yesterday i did make the gpu make high performance formg arifk and it workde then

totday it dont work anymore -.-

[misty wharf]

Yeah I mean we ran into a few issues with mp but for the most part it's fine :D

[pallid mica]

I never got myself to try it afterwards. I played too many random missions and had earworms of Poon telling me about showering in shit.

[coral widget]

is onedrive? the problem why i have low fps?

[slow bobcat]

Found a much better way to deal with that. One day will prepare a talk about it.

[pallid mica]

If you are using a Laptop, you might have a dedicated GPU that UE is not utilizing?

Ah, Bruno Bruno

[slow bobcat]

Don't. For your own good, don't even answer. Check the last 4 days with this person and how problem and you will understand why

[pallid mica]

Man you need a profile picture dude

[slow bobcat]

Heard that somewhere else haha

[coral widget]

i did this

[misty wharf]

There you go

[slow bobcat]

This is not the profile performance channel

[pallid mica]

It took me way too long to connect the dots of a Bruno being in an AI channel.

[coral widget]

it dont work -.-

[slow bobcat]

Please post your problems in the right channel Silvers

[coral widget]

pls bruno ... if you cant help me let other peoples help me!

[pallid mica]

Silvers has 2 active strikes. Pretty sure this will quickly solve itself.

[untold aspen]

They will help you in the correct channel! People who know about performance issues will not be on the lookout for such issues in the AI channel.

[slow bobcat]

That's me. Literally