lounge

[tulip orbit]

I've got a fairly decent idea of the concepts that it looks like the course will teach, but I'm pretty weak in some areas

[cursive crypt]

I think it is a bit broad, so if you have the time - go. However, I think you can learn well enough by focusing more around your goal.

[tulip orbit]

I could probably go straight to godot, but I've never done a pure-text code project, other than a flappy bird clone in java

[cursive crypt]

There must be courses for that. The langs you will use are kinda too off I think: C, Python, and SQL plus HTML, CSS, and JavaScript

Godot is kinda Python.

It is not bad to have broad view of the others, but... maybe waste of time, except if you are really not interested in programming.

[tulip orbit]

the godot site says its GDscript, c# and support for c++ I think

[cursive crypt]

GDscript comes from Python.

[deep copper]

GDscript was close to js / python

python official docs are amazing btw

[tulip orbit]

ah ok

[cursive crypt]

C# is... cough

Anyway, it should be easy enough.

[deep copper]

atleast i found them amazing, it covers everything possible, the other sites are just, skipping over a lot of working mechanism

[tulip orbit]

Ok, I'll continue to browse the godot docs intro and whatnot for now. I'm just about ready for bed so I might not actually run godot today

[cursive crypt]

Aye, there will be ton of info you need to learn about the engine itself. Time is important here, that's why my advise to focus more on your goal.

[deep copper]

yeah, i often find myself changing the goalpost after building the skills, and that's terrible experience

[cursive crypt]

I was afraid it will come to that.

Not sure what ue5 2d plans are.

[deep copper]

ue4-5 for simple 2d feels really overkill to me

[tulip orbit]

time isnt a huge deal, as I have no expectation of ever actually completing a project, or being financially dependant on its completion/success

[cursive crypt]

It also depends on what kind of 2d you foresee. I mean you can have 3d played/presented as 2d gameplay for example.

[deep copper]

make a short sweet game you can have fun playing first or something maybe

[tulip orbit]

I've tried the 3d as 2d a few times, and had little success

[deep copper]

if you hang a single project forever that will discourage you from making others and finishing that, actually, finishing stuff is an important skill i have heard

[cursive crypt]

Long time ago, in a char far away, I did some Metroidvania - like play. There was a course on uuh... that site with the casual 90% discounts.

So... it ain't so bad. UE can fix even your movement on axes.

You basically put your world and then fix your camera.

[deep copper]

UE4 has some 2d sample projects too

atleast did years back, they were quite decent

idk about now

[cursive crypt]

Not to mention you have top down templates as start up projects.

[tulip orbit]

I cant seem to stay focused on one project for very long, so I might do godot a week or so, come back to ue4, do something else... I dunno. shrugs

[deep copper]

that said I don't even make games lol, so don't listen to me

[cursive crypt]

Ah, yeah, enjoy mostly. Choose really small projects.

https://tenor.com/view/sad-walk-gif-24718162

Yeah.

[deep copper]

^ if you enjoy the making process you can do it forever

[tulip orbit]

I started a fairly small game the other week, but then started my job and been too tired to work on it.

[cursive crypt]

nsfw spoilers

[deep copper]

most relatable stuff i read today 😢

[cursive crypt]

Nah, Makoto is avoiding taxes. This is very disappointing.

[deep copper]

that could be a good loading screen

[deep copper]

perhaps they are busy compiling the tax

[quasi mantle]

Took this a while ago. She's the right one.

The left one was Jimmy, he unfortunately passed away like few days after this photo

Wow, discord really had to try hard uploading that for some reason

[cursive crypt]

This is... conflicting. Rest in peace Jimmy.

They seem friends.

[deep copper]

name of other?

[quasi mantle]

They did get along pretty quickly.

Jimmy came later from outside, being a stray cat. Probably he sensed that I took care of Molly pretty well. Took him a quick week to get along with Molly. He stayed for a couple of months until he and Molly got sick. Molly survived, but not Jimmy. It was heartbreaking to say the least

[tulip orbit]

😢

[zinc matrix]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1591520/Clownfield_2042/

Steam

Clownfield 2042

ClownZ Update is now available!Clownfield 2042 is an FPS where you take a role of unique soldier, equipped with enough arsenal to fight anyone ahead and win the front. After 2022 crypto-crash caused by NFT's, majority of nations collapsed and a union of "No-Clowns" has been formed. You are one of them, arm up and get ready for war. ALL OUT CLOWN...

Price

$0.79

Recommendations

2769

▶ Play video

damn

that game sold decent lol

or it was gifted for fake reviews lol

mix of both probably

[deep copper]

starts with C single word and has an year with 20, reminds me of cyberpunk 2077

[fleet tangle]

Clownfield 2042... battlefield 2042 with clowns?

[quasi mantle]

It's a shame that BF2042 has a potential of being an actually good game

[zinc matrix]

*missed

or ruined

[timber viper]

(both)

[cursive crypt]

In the light of recent events, I don't like 2042 being so close.

[zinc matrix]

yeah, playing war games feels wrong

[timber viper]

Jedi game was nice

But they used UE and they were a seperate team afaik

It Takes Two was also nice

[quasi mantle]

Correct.

If there are good ones from recent years, it has to be third party (relative to EA)

[neat sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/ea-sports-e-ea-meme-gif-14922519

[timber viper]

We need P version of this gif

[soft night]

https://tenor.com/view/ea-ea-games-challenge-everything-gaming-gif-17330237

[fleet tangle]

The thing they most challenge - the need to make decent games.

[neat sluice]

and questionable monetisaztion practices

[left granite]

what does nfts do anyway ?

[soft night]

ubi nft aka ubisoft quartz

[deep copper]

scam people

[neat sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/ubisoft-ubisoft-connect-wrap-up-ubisoft-connect-wrap-up-assassins-creed-gif-19236084

[soft night]

https://tenor.com/view/astroheads-nft-astroheads-nft-astro-garyvee-gif-23801353

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-nft-gif-23995088

[quasi mantle]

in theory, proof of ownership

So it's like you buying an antique piece of art auctioned at millions of dollars

Even if it's not actually an art

[soft night]

you could say gamers in-game managed market can be with NFT

[cursive crypt]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t7vl92/tai_lopez_is_selling_nfts_to_his_3m_instagram/

[neat sluice]

one thing that's strange about nfts is I have seen exactly 0 people that see any actual value in nfts other than that as an investment
like, nobody cares about the images, they all just want to buy it so they can sell it later

Most other investments actually have physical value, like real estate, stocks, etc.

[fleet tangle]

Bit like cryptocurrency.

[deep copper]

i was talking with Chromatic about it yesterday and they said it is only a text you own, so that's like a link to the image, not the image itself

and if what the link points to changes your stuff is like poof

[knotty skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/tj-jackson-3t-smile-say-cheese-pose-gif-17088267

[neat sluice]

https://preview.redd.it/6un1edqgz3m51.jpg?auto=webp&s=fcbbcf9f8f567a522ebb5168a796c04cf9f64a13

[knotty skiff]

HH

[left granite]

so all i need to do is draw an ugly monkey and i can get 1b $

[quasi mantle]

Or stole somebody else's artwork and make the same amount of money

[left granite]

yeah but i might have to deal with law

[quasi mantle]

Nah, the NFT scene is extreme chaotic in the spectrum

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-observing-book-writing-notes-gif-5516755

[quasi mantle]

It's not in the lawful side of the spectrum

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/now-we-making-millions-gucci-mane-what-its-gonna-be-song-now-were-getting-rich-were-getting-millions-gif-23821220

[knotty skiff]

Screenshot multiple times like

100 or 500 or 1K

You're the only billionaire and surpass Elon Musk on the Earth

[zinc matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudIZbCRq_c&ab_channel=RichBoyVEVO

💰 💰

[deep copper]

🥚

[left granite]

🦠

[deep copper]

🪄

[left granite]

🎩

[deep copper]

🐰

[verbal junco]

I hate these with a passion

[deep copper]

🐵

[left granite]

[neat sluice]

🐶

[deep copper]

🐔

[left granite]

🍑

[deep copper]

🐥

[neat sluice]

🐓

[deep copper]

🦗

[neat sluice]

🤓

[deep copper]

🌝

[zinc matrix]

fyi every day i get this weird feeling where i start feeling fatigued, lightheaded, and weak knee-ed. it just happened again. i passed out. its tolerable but it interferes with my functioning. i have no idea what causes it. it was kinda bad this time... probably because i chose not to fight it

[left granite]

🖤

[deep copper]

see a doctor man

get some checkups going

[neat sluice]

😯

[zinc matrix]

yea i got my blood drawn on friday hope we'll get something from that

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/we-need-to-get-you-to-a-hospital-jack-donaghy-30rock-you-need-help-this-is-an-emergency-gif-21958127

[deep copper]

that sounds serious or lack of something

[zinc matrix]

idk i am of the opinion its blood related

[verbal junco]

low blood sugar, diabetes, liver issues, neurological issues

[zinc matrix]

something is dropping

pressure, sugar content idk

[neat sluice]

your blood level?

You said your blood got drawn

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/space-jam-bugs-bunny-whats-up-doc-whats-up-what-is-up-gif-22421924

[deep copper]

sugar or salt, could be dropping

are you eating properly on time?

[zinc matrix]

like, i can physcally feel it

[verbal junco]

I just know because I've had the same issues 😂

[left granite]

🤣👍

[deep copper]

do you take too much stress? or do you live in a humid place you sweat in a lot or something

[verbal junco]

but generally stuff like this ties into the liver quite a bit

[zinc matrix]

it happens about the same time and duration every day

[deep copper]

idk i am no doctor

[zinc matrix]

hmmm

[verbal junco]

because the liver is what converts food to blood sugar

[zinc matrix]

liver damage?

[verbal junco]

doesn't have to be damage, could just be an infection

[zinc matrix]

hard to imagine.i dont even drink

[left granite]

WTH

[zinc matrix]

oooh maybe

[verbal junco]

but I'm not a doctor

bloodwork will show this

[neat sluice]

what?

[zinc matrix]

thought i had a long term UTI years ago but tests nevershowed anhything

anyywaayy

[deep copper]

we had a nurse and medic here but getting a proper checkup with results is always better than guesswork anxiety

[left granite]

that emoji looks like ...... well yk

[zinc matrix]

yea ive been googling symtpoms for some time

[deep copper]

it's a wind chime

[deep copper]

it rings on entering stores

[neat sluice]

🎐

[deep copper]

please dont

[left granite]

ig my mind is just dierty

[zinc matrix]

how does a liver get infected?? its not like you just get cuts in it

[deep copper]

never google, it just causes more stress , and necemo effect

[neat sluice]

be aware when googling your symptoms though

[left granite]

meds rot your liver or kidney not sure

[zinc matrix]

meh im not stressed

[zinc matrix]

that is a distinct possiblity

[verbal junco]

through food, other infections. if you said you had an UTI or similar, that could have moved for instance

[zinc matrix]

yea

[verbal junco]

not saying it is a liver infection

[zinc matrix]

my meds arent that tough on the organs though

[neat sluice]

https://www.medelita.com/media/Blog2020/memes/drgoogle-rarefatal.jpg

[deep copper]

just knowing the symptom of something via google can cause it to show up, necemo effect, please be careful of google

[zinc matrix]

i didnt know google could give my symtoms yikes ill try not to google 💀

google might give me symptoms of death

[deep copper]

i have had really bad experiences with it, so all i can say is beware

[verbal junco]

just see a doctor

[zinc matrix]

i intend to

[verbal junco]

the bloodwork will also give you a good indication of what's going on

[zinc matrix]

in the mean time i just gotta suffer haha

[deep copper]

do you live alone or do you have people around?

if you have people around do let them know you have issues if you haven't already

[zinc matrix]

yes i do and no nobody except my downstairs neighbor

[deep copper]

online classes

[zinc matrix]

ill be fine ive not had any major issues with it. it first showed up when i was lifting furniture at work years ago lol

imagine lifting a couch and your knees feel like theyre about to go xD

[deep copper]

ah, then could be sugar or something, or liver

agian idk

i am not the strong type so i can understand

[zinc matrix]

dunno if anyone likes country but i love this track. https://youtu.be/FzQnml-plRs

[deep copper]

also what's up with the "won't lie" thing

[zinc matrix]

its about the TOS

FYI TOS are complete BS

[left granite]

but who will teach\

[deep copper]

yeah if you are going to use something you have to agree anyway, even if it's not to your favour

[zinc matrix]

stating the obvious

[deep copper]

not all teachers live there

[verbal junco]

I love this question. it implies that the university building is teaching

[left granite]

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/fail-as-a-team-team-fail-sinking-ship-salute-sinking-ship-salute-fail-gif-22700399

[zinc matrix]

this is great

[neat sluice]

I'm not into country, but I like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9chF9gYZqI

[verbal junco]

also it's worth not hating on school

[deep copper]

not the building anyway

[verbal junco]

https://tenor.com/view/stay-in-school-stay-in-school-kids-stay-school-gif-22491609

[deep copper]

unless that's terrible or something

[zinc matrix]

i dunno Luke Bryan made country rap pretty awful. but this stuff by Colt Ford and Kidd G is pretty darn good

[left granite]

ikr

[zinc matrix]

luke bryan is just the worst

i dontknow anybody who likes his music

[left granite]

https://tenor.com/view/what-hello-yes-say-what-gif-15655177

[zinc matrix]

and he gets all the awards lmao CMT is so out of touch

[deep copper]

i don't even know who that is lol

[neat sluice]

I don't know either of them, but I like that one song 🙂

[zinc matrix]

you're not a country music listener I see

[zinc matrix]

the one i posted?

[deep copper]

yup 😄

[neat sluice]

I don't know Luke Bryan, Colt Ford or Kidd G

[zinc matrix]

kidd g is rather unknown but the other two are kinda huge

[zinc matrix]

FYI TOS against "misinformation" is a crock of

BS

[deep copper]

what's that about?

[zinc matrix]

so the new TOS have some pretty disgusting terms

[deep copper]

are you talking about new discord tos?

or tos in general

[zinc matrix]

the new TOS. first off. spreading "misinformation" aka LIES is against TOS. essentially if you say anything that isn't 100% true you're in violation. irritates the shit out of me and others like me. i dont know where these tech companies get the gall to tell someone they can't say anything that isn't 100% true in some particular experts eyes. other terms about "off discord behavior" is a disgusting over-reach, dunno how they feel they can regulate our lives like that or if thats even legal. and now you can't argue against trans individuals in principle or form. straight up its against TOS. our democracy in the states is in danger if one side literally cant speak up.

im half way between deleting discord

because fuck this

[verbal junco]

do it

[zinc matrix]

i just might

[verbal junco]

if you don't agree why stick around

[zinc matrix]

because UE slackers is here... 😛

and its hard to find support anywhere when everyone resorts to discord

its a catch 22

[neat sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/unreal-shader-confused-unreal4-unreal-engine-gif-15378565

[zinc matrix]

if we go to nuclear war i hope one of them tac nukes hits discord command servers mwahaha

[deep copper]

let's just understand they do it to get out of legal trouble and doing whatever they want

[verbal junco]

yeah I dont understand this mentality. just either deal with it or compromise

[deep copper]

ofc you are free to lie, unless someone reports you

[zinc matrix]

they do it because it keep them on good terms with certain aspects of society at the expense of others

[deep copper]

if they report, discord now has full control on what to do,

[verbal junco]

reported for enabling liars

[deep copper]

yup,

now as a tech company they can show others "look we stopped liers"

liars* or whatever

[zinc matrix]

oh trust me its becomingmuch more common

i literally downloaded Hinge recently. said fuck that. removed it when the new TOS agreement appeared

i actually read my contracts

[deep copper]

ofc they can't stop every other lie, but if you say something really controversial you should expect some backfire and discord can take action now, probably

you read these? well, that's quite admirable

they change so frequently i just skip it

[zinc matrix]

it doesnt take a rocket scientist. its just when i expect to sign something i may not like or they pass an update... i am of course guilty of accepting EULA's lickity split like every other soul on this earth. just gimme software lol

arbitration agreements are the devil too. "Yea i wont sue you just gimme software"

for employment too. thats what gets me

[deep copper]

yeah, for casual stuff I don't think it's worth reading everything now a days, it's all practically just so that you can't sue them like you said, regardless of what they do

[zinc matrix]

like the treaty of versailles. contracts are negotiated not dictated but nobody told the software industry

[deep copper]

what's that about?

it's in effect from 28 i think

[left granite]

🧐

[deep copper]

this month

[foggy path]

What does Discord TOS specifically say about " you can't argue against trans individuals in principle or form" ?

[deep copper]

let me double check

[foggy path]

Because that sounds like bullshit to be frank...

[charred rapids]

vim > other ides

[verbal junco]

rider is for kid tho

[zinc matrix]

not to get into historical (or modern) politics but germany was at a major disadvantage after ww1 when the treaty was signed. an advisor to the US said that. "treaties are negotiated not dictated" or something to that effect. he was right. germans hated being forced to sign it and comply with it. they had no say in the terms.

[deep copper]

yup march 28

[zinc matrix]

which is why ww2 happened. because of the humiliation germany felt.

[deep copper]

ah right, i think i do remember that

[foggy path]

That misinformation policy that's detailed on Discord's blog seems well balanced to me... it considers intent to mislead, malice, and history of posting content like that....

so claiming that you can't even say anything anymore is basically just scaremongering

[deep copper]

so no more nitro scam?

[foggy path]

you wish

:D

[verbal junco]

but but muh freedom

[zinc matrix]

like have you ever thought about these EULAs and TOS? They exist on a take it or leave it basis. you cant add anything to them on your part.

[verbal junco]

why do you care so much?

[foggy path]

and I still don't know what the point about trans people was that BASED Engineer was making

[zinc matrix]

because i disagree with it all

[verbal junco]

in the end people want you to use their products because that's how they make money you know

[foggy path]

There's literally nothing about trans people in the misinfo related TOS

[verbal junco]

then don't use it. simple as

[deep copper]

yes, because then you can kinda cheat these mutli dollar companies easily, some users can have bad intentions

[zinc matrix]

software companies have all the power.

[zinc matrix]

im not sure why you're telling me this

[deep copper]

yup, to protect themselves, and well, ofc to be a bit selfish in some cases

[neat sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/takethatback-sheldon-the-big-bang-theory-take-that-gif-5482737

[deep copper]

wasn't fb in quite trouble for the whole selling data thing? yt has quite a lot of zuck vs senate vids

[zinc matrix]

they dont need protection. theyve got lawyers on their payroll 24/7 for things like suits and stuff. at the same time your average user can be wronged by companies and if theyve signed an arb agreement they cant even sue.

[foggy path]

Do not share false or misleading information (otherwise known as misinformation). Content that is false, misleading, and can lead to significant risk of physical or societal harm may not be shared on Discord. We may remove content if we reasonably believe its spread could result in damage to physical infrastructure, injury of others, obstruction of participation in civic processes, or the endangerment of public health.
This is the entire paragraph about misinfo in discord community guidelines... like... what's the big deal lol

[timber viper]

😠 🔪

[verbal junco]

because all you're doing is complain about a platform that you are using this very moment. either take a stance or deal with it. moaning about it does nothing. you're not going to change their mind

[zinc matrix]

im not moaning

[verbal junco]

you absolutely are

[foggy path]

He's trying to argue that he wants to spread lies about trans people but can't

I think that's it

:P

[verbal junco]

sounds about right

[zinc matrix]

youve (all) been asking me why i hold these positions.

[verbal junco]

I certainly haven't

[zinc matrix]

i am elaborating

[verbal junco]

just either deal with it or don't use it

[zinc matrix]

im not shutting up but thanks

[deep copper]

they can easily say lies don't protect the avg user..

[foggy path]

Yeah I've been trying to learn where it says anything about trans people in the misinformation related updates

because I can't find it, and it sounds like you made it up

[verbal junco]

not asking you to shut up, I'm asking you to have a spine

[zinc matrix]

oh i have a spine

[deep copper]

what even is this convo going towards lol

[zinc matrix]

and i dont appreciate being talked to like that

[foggy path]

I remember him posting nonsense that he can't back up before as well

[verbal junco]

but they can't lie. surely that's all manufactured

[zinc matrix]

now you're just being ridiculous

[verbal junco]

yeah same

[foggy path]

Show me where the trans related bits are in the discord misinformation guidelines then

lol

[zinc matrix]

ive been busy talking to others gimme a second

[verbal junco]

https://tenor.com/view/palla-deserto-desert-hot-gif-6014273

[foggy path]

lol

considering I pasted the entire paragraph about misinformation above and it doesn't mention it I'm curious

[verbal junco]

sounds like they just want to be angry and moan about it

[foggy path]

well if you read certain publications or follow certain content creators you would easily be tricked into that kind of thinking

no harm done if you realize your mistake though

[verbal junco]

nah it's not manly to back down

[cursive crypt]

Is it popcorn time? 🤔

[foggy path]

being manly is for girls

[deep copper]

it does seem to be against stuff that causes harm, i am guessing it's against scamming of sorts, with the whole nft rising

[verbal junco]

whaat, a rational stance? no way, we must be against the TOS

[foggy path]

Yeah, it's a clause to allow them to deal with people who are intentionally doing it to cause harm

[cursive crypt]

Joke on you, some people like that.

[deep copper]

tomboys

[verbal junco]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-so-hot-summer-sweating-sweating-hard-gif-16045826

[deep copper]

that's closer to what i imagined when you said moan

[verbal junco]

the british moan is more like complaining

but like, complaining for the sake of complaining

[zinc matrix]

"**Do not organize, promote, or participate in hate speech or hateful conduct. It’s unacceptable to attack a person or a community based on attributes such as their race, ethnicity, caste, national origin, sex, gender identity, gender presentation, sexual orientation, **religious affiliation, age, serious illness, disabilities, or other protected classifications." https://discord.com/guidelines its actually in these community guidelines. hate speech is protected speech in the USA. i dont understand why/where these companies get the notion that they must regulate it. do i like hate speech? No. do i engage in hate speech? no, and if either of these were true i wouldnt be here.

let people run their lives. dont put these draconian policies in place. if someones being a bully then block them. its pussified to expect someone else to handle your problems for you.

[deep copper]

i am sure there was another word for that, it's at the tip of my tongue....

[zinc matrix]

asks why i hold a certain view
explains.
claims im bitching and moaning

[foggy path]

honestly I think you need to go away if you think we should allow people to be bigots

[zinc matrix]

get real

[foggy path]

this is not the place for you

[deep copper]

it just stops harrasment, they want to look like they stop it in case someone reaches out to them for it

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-popcorn-day-cinema-gif-5026744

[timber viper]

Seeing this image alarms me instantly now

[cursive crypt]

I have no idea what is going on butt..

Ooops

[verbal junco]

free speech only works in public places

[cursive crypt]

I'm calling the mods on you.

[timber viper]

Like oh f, another free nitro

[foggy path]

yep I thought it was a discord nitro scam link

[verbal junco]

haha same

[deep copper]

exactly what i thought lol

[verbal junco]

MODS MODS MODS

[deep copper]

i was this close to pinging mods

[timber viper]

😂

[zinc matrix]

oh boohoo. you dont agree with what i have to say.

cry about it

[deep copper]

that's free speech now

[verbal junco]

never asked for your opinion. I said take it or leave it. you seem to want neither but to moan instead 👌

[zinc matrix]

yea no im not responding to you any longer

[foggy path]

This is not a place for people who think bigotry is ok

[cursive crypt]

moan... :shy:

[foggy path]

I suggest you leave or shut up

[zinc matrix]

with your ad hominem attacks

[deep copper]

exactly! misleading ...

[verbal junco]

lmao he blocked me. finally.

[cursive crypt]

Btw, I found a good JS for making Discord blocking & hiding messages. It is really cool.

[deep copper]

no wonder you never respond to me

[cursive crypt]

Dwarves vs elves.

[timber viper]

Can we make Discord hide "have you tried Rider though?" messages? Asking for a friend

[zinc matrix]

not one of you have actually listened to what ive said. instead you keep putting words in my mouth with your awful takes

[verbal junco]

yes it's always everyone else's fault

[deep copper]

yeah i know, i know but it's just ,, ...

[cursive crypt]

Definitely... You see Rider, you post that meme...

[verbal junco]

there's no way you could ever be wrong

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/hog-rider-pig-rider-coc-gif-23937747

[foggy path]

https://tenor.com/bL85o.gif

[zinc matrix]

go away

[cursive crypt]

'murica

[timber viper]

https://tenor.com/view/kittens-cute-cat-pet-cheeks-gif-16382546

Kitten time

[charred rapids]

So, on an unrelated note, I came to Windows from Linux, had a bad time with overly complicated point-and-click IDEs, recently found out about the Windows Linux Subsystem and Windows Terminal Preview. It's pretty pog, even has retro terminal effects

[zinc matrix]

personal attacks dont make your arguments stronger fyi

[cursive crypt]

WSL is cool

[charred rapids]

Yup, it's great

[cursive crypt]

Buut I'm using another terminal.

[verbal junco]

wall street... launcher?

[cursive crypt]

crypto for life

[fleet tangle]

I actually somewhat agree with you, @zinc matrix, people should be able to think whatever they like - thought police is bad - but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with them or let them spread their thoughts on their personal platform. If Discord don't wnat that shit on here, that's entirely up to them.

[charred rapids]

But does the other terminal have retro effects? That's what sold me

[cursive crypt]

conemu

Aah, nope. I don't think so.

[foggy path]

You can always go on Truth Social if you want to spread your bigotry ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cursive crypt]

I mean you can theme it up, but apart from showing off this to your drunk nerd friends, what is the point?

[foggy path]

or whatever that thing was called

[charred rapids]

No real point, I just like it. It's basically Solarized with retro effects

But! It's so much better than opening up VS

[cursive crypt]

Other things are cool, have one app for all the shells. Customize terminals, script them and so on.

[fleet tangle]

But I'm also a big proponent of personal freedoms and having society deal with these issues instead of having it forcefully done via legislation, but that's idealism and I know in practice it will never work.

[zinc matrix]

right. and discord users all have a stake in the platform. when one group of users asserts that another cant have certain freedoms on said platform i dont think thats fair. it may be a private company but that doesnt mean it isnt catering to certain parties.

[foggy path]

Why do you want to let f.ex. nazis have any kind of freedoms?

[fleet tangle]

And who the you to say which parties Discord should cater to?

[foggy path]

Like... what possible good thing can come from that?

[fleet tangle]

zomg: are you against freedom for anyone that thinks differently to you?

[cursive crypt]

Freedom of choice? 🤔

[foggy path]

@fleet tangle I'm against the freedom of anyone who abuses the freedoms to cause harm

[charred rapids]

Yep, also panes. On my linux system I use a tiling window manager so it feels natural. Nice to have that on windows

[deep copper]

it's freedom of opinion more like

[fleet tangle]

It's not about specific groups. It's about ideals.

@foggy path then you should step in when they actually cause harm, not instigate thought police.

[zinc matrix]

when it impacts my freedoms on said platform--when others are allowed to have said freedoms at the same time? thats just wrong

[fleet tangle]

You have no freedoms on any privately owned platform.

[foggy path]

@fleet tangle it has been shown in many studies that allowing for example neo-nazis into a community the ideals start spreading which I think is pretty easy to show causes harm

[cursive crypt]

Freesubs only

[fleet tangle]

Freedom is not a right. Freedom is a privilege granted to you by those in power.

[deep copper]

that reminds me of odysee

[cursive crypt]

haha

[zinc matrix]

yeah those in power being the people here in the states at least

[deep copper]

it has very low moderation, it's like yt, we talked about it a while back

[foggy path]

Yeah like I get the ideal that you want to let people to talk about what they want... yeah sure great, in an ideal world 100% agree

but this world is faaaaar from ideal

[fleet tangle]

@foggy path If neo-nazism can spread to a community that easily, I fear for the human race. Though I already think humanity is basically a piece of shit.

[cursive crypt]

Btw, I'm just getting - what is the root of that word? FreeDom -> Free from Dominance 🤔

[deep copper]

propoganda are easy to spread

even with regulations those won't stop

[foggy path]

Sad but true

You don't have to look far to see how easy people are to manipulate

[zinc matrix]

maybe i used the wrong word. "rights" being the one i wanted to use. hell TOS even uses that word.

[fleet tangle]

Wrong reply 😛

[fleet tangle]

You have no rights either.

[foggy path]

yeah thought it was a bit weird reply lol

[verbal junco]

people seem to forget this

[zinc matrix]

do i? https://discord.com/terms see More Important Stuff

[fleet tangle]

To think that what you personally believe should be protected on a privately owned platform is beyond entitled.

[cursive crypt]

smirk

[zinc matrix]

that goes both ways

[verbal junco]

@fleet tangle careful he might block you for having an opinion that differs from yours

[fleet tangle]

To be honest, the only place I think should have such a protections are government run platforms, because they should represent everyne they govern, even the fucktards.

[cursive crypt]

https://github.com/Multarix/Discord-Hide-Blocked-Messages You don't need to violate the Discord eulas, just enable the console and paste it. You can tune up the polling interval too.

[deep copper]

i don't think they will allow highly anti govt things there to survive for long

[fleet tangle]

What are you implying with this?

[deep copper]

it can backfire and cause chaos

[fleet tangle]

Probably, but idealism etc

[cursive crypt]

Ooh, nice.

[fleet tangle]

I'm a cynic because my idealism doesn't work. Because humans suck.

[cursive crypt]

Hey, not everyone is into lolipops.

[zinc matrix]

what ive been saying since certain parties asked me to explain. when one party is granted exclusive rights on said platforms that is **wrong. **

[fleet tangle]

It's not wrong.

It's up to the owner of the platform to decide.

[deep copper]

one is, and other isn't kinda thing

[zinc matrix]

no? really? why is that?

[fleet tangle]

You don't get to make the rules for this platform. You can't decide what is wrong. Discord does.

[zinc matrix]

do you think these platform owners exist in a vacuum?

[fleet tangle]

That's irrelevant.

[cursive crypt]

It is fine, I mean, you just change the DOM on your client.

[zinc matrix]

you just stated that it is up to private ownership to decide these things. social/cultural pressure is a very real force and legitimate concern

[deep copper]

i think this convo is like what we discussed this morning, game devs decide what to do with their assets, even if players or modders don't like it, they choose how they want others to use it, because they made it

[verbal junco]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-youre-goddamn-right-gif-14600753

[zinc matrix]

you dont get to decide whats relevant and what isnt bud

[fleet tangle]

And so what if it is? That makes no difference. You may feel it is morally wrong to allow certain parties a bigger voice, but, in the end, it's not up to you how this platform is used.

[deep copper]

"world is unfair" basically?

[fleet tangle]

Pretty much.

[zinc matrix]

oh but i am a stakeholder. so are many others. we are not being heard.

specifically because of things like the new TOS

[verbal junco]

a stakeholder lmao

[fleet tangle]

The only way to make yourself heard is through money. If you don't like the system, don't put your money into it.

Create your own rival system or use another rival system with a more agreeable TOS.

[zinc matrix]

again stating the obvious

[fleet tangle]

You're the one paying for a service you object to, bud.

[zinc matrix]

i havent given discord a dime

[fleet tangle]

Then you're not a stakeholder.

[deep copper]

i was thinking along the lines of stock investment or something when you said stakeholder

[zinc matrix]

i am here. there are many others like me here too. you're missing the point. if you're using said platform you are a stakeholder.

[fleet tangle]

Eh. Maybe.

[verbal junco]

publically traded companies have stakeholders

[fleet tangle]

I'm not sure it's worth arguing that point.

[zinc matrix]

then dont

[verbal junco]

also it's not true

[zinc matrix]

i will, however

[verbal junco]

you're not a stakeholder for using a platform

[fleet tangle]

You have a stake in discord because you use it. It's just not a monetary stake.

[verbal junco]

discord doesn't care about you specifically, it cares about its users as a whole

[zinc matrix]

exactly. in SWE we talk about users and business owners as stakeholders.

some hold more stake/power than others but its there

[verbal junco]

this is a misnomer. the stake doesn't translate to a stake for/against discord as a company. it doesn't matter to them

[deep copper]

yeah okay, so discord needs to thing of all stakeholders

including the trans etc?

[zinc matrix]

yes

[verbal junco]

it only matters to the user

[charred rapids]

I'm more of a steak eater myself

[verbal junco]

so it's not a stake

[deep copper]

tbh i have talked with a fair share of trans on discord, they do get harrased, and blocking doesn't works too well in servers, also, targetted attacks, it's just bullying at that point, i think those stakeholders would be happy

and with the whole deal of lgbt thing, i can see more supporting that

as for the misinformation thing, i am not sure but majority shouldn't have a problem because it's phrased that way

[fleet tangle]

Misinformation thing?

[deep copper]

they said misinformation clause or whatever of discord stops lies of sorts and that takes away certain opinions as well occasionally maybe idk (paraphrased)

[fleet tangle]

Who gets to decide what is misinformation and what isn't?

[verbal junco]

some bigoted take on not being able to do hate speech

[deep copper]

that's what they didn't like i believe, but discord phrased it like, "if misleading causes harm"

[fleet tangle]

So they're against fraud?

[deep copper]

it seems so, but idk

i think it's better to let based say what they wanted about it

[fleet tangle]

They've basically made Trump illegal on discord 😄

[cursive crypt]

Do you have recipes? Over #food we discuss some.

[deep copper]

zomg pasted the clause above somewhere, but it probably drowned in this

[zinc matrix]

i dont support forcing views on others or forcing others to call you by certain words (pronouns, etc. ) or ELSE which is a ludicrous proposition. like if you're gonna announce that you're of a certain category then you had better be prepared to deal with how others might react. thats just life.

[verbal junco]

discord is their platform. they can do what they like

[fleet tangle]

I always liked the one "I identify as an attack helicopter"

[zinc matrix]

discord moderating certain opinions out of existence doesnt help anything.

[deep copper]

ah that, yes that can get weird, and friendly jokes are okay about that i think, tbh, that's more down to server mods opinion

[cursive crypt]

Do you know that Helicopters are the souls of dead tanks?

[deep copper]

or well, get different friends in that case, that is life yes, not everyone has to accept anything

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/helicopter-panzerheli-panzer-gif-13826609

[verbal junco]

tbh I think it's just about respect, but I can definitely see it being a bit entitled

[fleet tangle]

Personally, I really don't care what people want to identify as. They can do as they like. I support their choices. But I'm dubious about whether their thoughts should be forced on other people.

[verbal junco]

not as entitled as "DISCORD NEEDS FULL FREEDOM OR WE RIOT" though

[zinc matrix]

say some (hypothetical) legitimate neo-nazi walks into your pub and starts shouting about his views. what can you do at that point? if they arent threatening you or anyone else there's no point getting police involved. at that point its just a conflict of ideas (and character).

[cedar wolf]

wait...
does this server not have...
a memes channel?

[cursive crypt]

^

[fleet tangle]

@zinc matrix the pub owner should have the right to refuse service and to tell them to fuck off.

[deep copper]

i am not sure what a neo nazi is exactly, but yes, again, down to server mods

[timber viper]

Call the police 🤷‍♂️

[verbal junco]

a nazi born after WW2

[deep copper]

ideals are easy to forget, what were their beliefs again?

[verbal junco]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I think you need to sit through some wikipedia pages

[deep copper]

😓 pass..

[verbal junco]

are you asian?

[zinc matrix]

since we're talking hypotheticals what some of the pub patrions are non-threatening neo nazis? should they be allowed to tell you to get out and fuck off?

[deep copper]

yup

[fleet tangle]

But then you have the reverse situation, the common example being the gay couple who purposefully go to a caterer who is against homosexuality for whatever reason and asks they to make them a cake. Should they not have the right to refuse service as well?

[verbal junco]

that explains why you don't know at least

okay imagine like

idk

pol pot

[deep copper]

pol pot?

[timber viper]

TL;DR They claim their race is superior against humans and rest of the people either have to be a slave or some specific ones should die/suffer greatly

[fleet tangle]

I'm not sure what you mean here.

[timber viper]

Long explaination is not suitable for this server

[verbal junco]

if you don't know pol pot either I have no basis of comparison

[cursive crypt]

I think these are the demons from DOOM

[verbal junco]

the japanese treatement of chinese prisoners during the internment period?

[deep copper]

ah okay, ty

[deep copper]

right alright, i get it i think

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-fist-pump-toy-action-figure-fist-bump-gif-23659870

[soft night]

https://tenor.com/view/tank-master-chief-sgt-johnson-motivational-scorpion-gif-20922701

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/neandertal-sniff-smell-gif-14783341

[cedar wolf]

I think so. Most cases of that seem to be selfish people just fishing for a million dollar suite to ruin someone's entire livelyhood with. I don't think business owners should be forced to take on every client who wants.

[verbal junco]

that's adorbs

[zinc matrix]

i think we can both agree that in both cases its their right to refuse service to certain parties. discord is a bit different as its a social media platform and has thousands of users who are all stakeholders. everyone has some stake in the platform. whereas a pub owner is likely a sole proprietor or business person. even then. patrons have stake, thats why owners kick unruly characters out. if this bar gets around as a neonazi haven all of a sudden you see more of them and less of the regulars.

[fleet tangle]

But if they don't, it's illegal because they're being bigoted about a protected whatdoyoucallit.

[verbal junco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_R9UjFTcWk

[fleet tangle]

I'm a big believer in personal and corporate freedom. I don't think a business, of any scale, should have to do business with somebody they don't want to, for whatever reason.

I think businesses that use that to discriminate against people should be socially judged not criminally penalised.

[cedar wolf]

Thing is, we don't know if it's because they're bigots though. There could be darker things going on that us outsiders cannot see, so it's best to leave it up to the people who actually own and know the business.

[zinc matrix]

we are beating the same dead horse at this point, friend

[verbal junco]

nah that's some kangaroo court ish

[cedar wolf]

You can't really prove what someone is thinking. They just have to admit it if they choose.

[fleet tangle]

CE: I know it wouldn't work. Just idealism.

[verbal junco]

why does it have to be though. can't people just accept other people?

[fleet tangle]

We have laws because people can't actaully do this shit on their own without people in power enforcing it.

[verbal junco]

see also: that vid I posted

the tolerance paradox is why we need anti discriminaton laws

[cedar wolf]

other people can be dangerous and evil, unfortunately.

[quiet wolf]

@fossil bronze 'elo who this?

[verbal junco]

I'm sure a gay couple wanting a wedding cake aren't on the way to commit genocide though

[fleet tangle]

Probably.

[deep copper]

fupper has a slack pfp juh

[cursive crypt]

Hi, I'm dad.

[deep copper]

sounds like action movie plot

[cedar wolf]

nah, but maybe, like I said, they are just fishing for a suite to kill the business of anyone they don't like.

[cedar wolf]

lol, kinda

[verbal junco]

well yeah. because of anti discrimination laws.

[deep copper]

you mean like a rival doing pr stunty thing?

[verbal junco]

again watch that video about the tolerance paradox

[zinc matrix]

good talk friends

[deep glen]

https://twitter.com/Luos_83/status/1500475917235273729

Yoeri -Luos- Vleer (@Luos_83)

Someone applied the wrong normal map.
#gamedev https://t.co/sV1SsTDXX0

Twitter · Mar 6, 2022, 2:18 PM

[deep copper]

take care of your health bud

[fleet tangle]

@verbal junco I watched the video. I don't agree with the outcome, though.

[ancient ingot]

o/

[cedar wolf]

yeah, maybe this convo is getting a little too political for this server...

[verbal junco]

you don't have to agree with it. it's true all the same

[fleet tangle]

So you claim!

[verbal junco]

I don't

[cedar wolf]

you just did lol

[verbal junco]

it's a paradox

[deep copper]

it's not political unless we agree it is

[verbal junco]

it's a concept

it's true whether you want it to be or not

[fleet tangle]

It's similar to the impossibility paradox. If everything is possible, the only thing that is impossible is impossibility.

[verbal junco]

I'm not going to be act like 2 + 2 = 4 isn't true

if you want to do that be my guest

but don't say that it's my claim

[deep copper]

now i am curious what that video is...

[fleet tangle]

Well, it's Karl Popper's claim then.

[cursive crypt]

There might be a metal ring below btw. Trees can grow around stuff in very interesting ways.

[fleet tangle]

Basically the video says that unless you are intolerant against intolerance, then you can never be truly tolerant. Something along those lines.

[zinc matrix]

i lived in a place once where the trees had grown through the fence next to them

[verbal junco]

it says if a society remains tolerant of intolerance it ends up being intolerant

[fleet tangle]

Some parts of it, sure.

[cursive crypt]

Sounds close to mind.

[fleet tangle]

But is that a bad thing?

[verbal junco]

yes

unless you want wanton discrimination

[fleet tangle]

I would rather have a free society than a completely tolerant one.

[verbal junco]

I wouldn't

people need government

[cursive crypt]

Cakes too.

[fleet tangle]

Government cakes.

[deep copper]

cats too

[zinc matrix]

C4 cake?

[fleet tangle]

Send one to everyne on their birthday.

[verbal junco]

there's a whole meme series on the idea of anarcho capitalism and why it doesn't work

[fleet tangle]

It probably doesn't work because people are arseholes, right?

[deep copper]

just like everything else 😔

[fleet tangle]

I definitely think a form of minarchism is the way to go.

But not total anarcho capitalism.

[verbal junco]

nah

people need government

because they can't govern themselves

[fleet tangle]

Minarchism is a form of government.

[verbal junco]

still some libertarian nonsense

tbh the best thing that could happen for humanity would be a benevolent dictator

[fleet tangle]

That might work for 50 years.

Then you're fucked.

[deep copper]

ideal dictator yeah

[cedar wolf]

I think people need government to preserve personal freedom, not take it away.

[fleet tangle]

Minarchism is basically the idea that the government shouldn't step in unless a party is causing harm to another party. If you include the environment as a party in that equation, it could work pretty well.

[verbal junco]

better that than having a NAP that can be violated and have private nukes destroy large swathes of a country just because of a neighborly disagreement

people can't be trusted

why would you ever want to give them freedom

[zinc matrix]

🤣 dunno if i can post this here

[cedar wolf]

that doesn't sound too bad

[deep copper]

so it's like mods of this server

well they do step in for occasional dad jokes too

[cedar wolf]

Yeah, I suppose

[verbal junco]

nah it's one step away from ancap territory, see the memes above

[cedar wolf]

oh, dad jokes, lol
the nuke of all young minds

[fleet tangle]

Not really.

[deep copper]

eggsactly

[cedar wolf]

😫

[fleet tangle]

I don't get the yolk, brother.

[verbal junco]

@fleet tangle see these two lines

[deep copper]

context the lounge was filled with eggs a few days ago

[fleet tangle]

Which 2?

[cedar wolf]

well shoot

[verbal junco]

the one quoted and the following

[fleet tangle]

I mean, not letting people have nuclear weapons is probably just a general rule of thumb for any government.

[cedar wolf]

mm ^

[verbal junco]

who's going to stop them?

the NAP?

don't make me laugh

[deep copper]

maybe not the right time but, you know... nap... 💤

[cedar wolf]

also include all other weapons addressed to "to whom it may concern"

[deep copper]

there's also the issue of trading and managing country to country depts etc right?

and budget or whatever

[cedar wolf]

I think one's addressed to "this one guy specifically" are okay though, so long as they treat it with the deadly respect it deserves.

[fleet tangle]

@verbal junco I will admit, a straight minarchistic government won't work. As you say, nukes everywhere.

But it's a good basis for things.

[verbal junco]

people need government, and they need strong government

the amount of ish we'd see if people had the freedom to do whatever they wanted would cripple the world

[deep copper]

capable govt yeah, with enough authority to carry out actions

[verbal junco]

something that ideologies somehow neglect to mention

[fleet tangle]

Of ish?

[cedar wolf]

I think, imperfect people means imperfect government, so seeking any sort of perfect ideal in gov will end up worse than any imperfect amalgamation.

[verbal junco]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=-ish

[deep copper]

you really use some difficult terms

[fleet tangle]

I know what the term means, I'm just wondering what it means in that sentence.

[verbal junco]

doesn't link the correct definition

thanks urbandictionary

scroll down

[cedar wolf]

das a fish

[cursive crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/ups-catfish-fishing-gone-gif-24449903

[cedar wolf]

me?

[fleet tangle]

To which definition? I saw like 10, all of them were about rough equality.

[deep copper]

das af ish

[verbal junco]

ghoti*

[deep copper]

no, CE, they also used a few other words i think with certain meanings today

[cedar wolf]

oh, k

[deep copper]

it's like a censorship

[verbal junco]

first page, 5th or so definition

[fleet tangle]

Absolutely. As I've said many times, What I believe and what will actually work are entirely different in reality 😄

[deep copper]

reality is terrifying,

[fleet tangle]

I've literally never seen ish used that way.

[verbal junco]

certainly looking for perfection isn't what you want to do. but any type of libertarianism will bring us closer to extinction than not having it

[deep copper]

if you revserse the word it's for, it's kinda like that

reverse*

[fleet tangle]

If having freedoms brings us to extinction, maybe that's for the best?

[verbal junco]

well you've learned something new today. be happy

[verbal junco]

speak for yourself?

I don't want to be at the mercy of the nearest psychopath. if I wanted that I'd go to school in america

[deep copper]

#lounge was very active today

[fleet tangle]

You're always at the mercy of the nearest psychopath.

Just, right now, you don't know it.

[verbal junco]

conversely you are of course free to cause self extinction if that's what you believe is the best course of action. just don't force your choice on others

[fleet tangle]

I'm not forcing my choice on anyone.

[verbal junco]

.

[fleet tangle]

I'm allowed to have an opinion, aren't I? Without forcing others to agree with me?

[cedar wolf]

I think the lower the number of people there are with greater control over the populace, which comes with stronger government, the more their own selfish motives will play a role in the general reign. So moving to a more free and wider spread type of rule, such as giving back the right for people to control their own business, is better overall.

[fleet tangle]

I don't make the rules and never will.

[verbal junco]

you're just going to see the same power accumulation but now there is no large body to restrict or oppose said accumulation

[cedar wolf]

Yeah, thinking the government will have any affect on whether or not you're at the mercy of the nearest psychopath is not so well thought out.

[verbal junco]

it does. if a government bans guns you somehow don't have worry all that much about school shootings

funny how things work

[cedar wolf]

The larger body IS power accumulation.

[verbal junco]

it isn't. if you think that then you need to do a reality check

[fleet tangle]

What about school stabbings? Your neighbour can, at any time, knock on our door and just stab you.

[verbal junco]

the power sits with the money, not with the government

[cedar wolf]

The government is a business like everything else, giving them or anyone a monopoly is never a wise choice.

[fleet tangle]

You don't need guns to be at the mercy of psychopaths, they just make it easier.

[verbal junco]

it really isn't

[deep copper]

the point of govt was to help us survive as a species right? and diplomatic relations with other countries help prevent outside invasions etc

[fleet tangle]

https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/208dff7a0e5d8b340e2a1f2d063aad7e26da1533_1.jpg

Also related.

[verbal junco]

sure. you can substitute guns with any type of weapon. but if you ban those weapons wholesale, then there's a less chance of those things happening no?

[fleet tangle]

You can't ban knives.

People need to cut things.

[cedar wolf]

Yeah, it is. They taxes are their income and revenue, and the governing of the populace is their service.

[verbal junco]

you can ban whatever you want

[deep copper]

also, with a proper power accumulation, if in the right hands, can stop the psycho at one person stab (or one case for that person)

[cedar wolf]

simple business.

[fleet tangle]

So you want to live in a world where there are no tools?

Every tool can be used to kill somebody.

Oh, and you need to restrain everyone because you can beat people to death.

[verbal junco]

right yeah so paying for the services they provide to the people isn't the same as having a company with stakeholders that is for profit

which ironically would be very much the case in any libertarian scenario

[deep copper]

it boils down to whether the power accumulated is capable of protecting everyone nearly i think?

if it is distributed it can go into wrong hands as well, more easily, not to say it currently isn't

[fleet tangle]

Power protects itself, not the people.

[cedar wolf]

So, you're getting what I'm saying though. They aren't what you might consider a conventional business, but many of the same rules you would apply to others, still apply with gov.

[verbal junco]

hence why you need bodies of regulation. if you don't want to call that a government, don't. but the only way to ensure that accumulation is culled is to have entities that work against each other. e.g. political parties

[deep copper]

yeah, again, ideally speaking that was the point, and everyone having power means more risk of going wack , more chefs ruin the food or whatever

[fleet tangle]

Totally agree, @verbal junco

[cursive crypt]

If mom was around, would tell you y'all wooden philosophers.

Got that few times.

[cedar wolf]

what's that?

[verbal junco]

the government has to pay for the security of its people. if you are a citizen, the government protects certain things for you. you pay for those, if you can, in return.

[fleet tangle]

It's every person's duty to set the world to rights by discussing political philosophy with their friends.

[verbal junco]

it's less a business and more a TOS

[cursive crypt]

You know wood, lumber, type of material.

[verbal junco]

to bring it full circle

[cedar wolf]

tos?

[verbal junco]

terms of service

[cedar wolf]

what is the meaning of a wooden philosopher though?

[verbal junco]

probably akin to armchair

or wood rank

[cursive crypt]

Yeah, alike. Never asked for details.

[fleet tangle]

I imagine something like not fully understanding the impact of what they're talking about or have the ability to back up their claims with sound arguments.

[cedar wolf]

Oh, that's what I thought. All businesses have TOS's. It's a part of the business.

[verbal junco]

that does not mean that all TOS's are part of businesses

[cedar wolf]

oh, gotcha lol

[deep copper]

it was all about feeling secure, as a customer whether govt or a tos

[cedar wolf]

no, it doesn't. They just are.

[deep copper]

well leaving a country is harder than leaving a bad tos tho

[cedar wolf]

They're legally required to have one.

[verbal junco]

you can have a TOS without a business

[charred rapids]

I left over an hour ago and just came back... this channel appears to be stuck in a while(true) loop

[verbal junco]

libertarians never give up

[fleet tangle]

We're free to argue 😄

[cedar wolf]

A TOS is literally a document explaining what a business does. The gov isn't a document, it's a business with a document explaining what it does. Declaration of Gov. or whatever each country calls it.

[cursive crypt]

My ex left me a grapefruit tree. I'm kinda sad it may not live, it is too cold for it in this climate :/

[verbal junco]

it's a document explaining a service. a service doesn't have to be a business. there's plenty of freely distributed plugins and programs that have terms of service put in such way to shield the creator from e.g. lawsuits

[cursive crypt]

Plants should not suffer.

[verbal junco]

so no. it is not explaining what a business does

[cursive crypt]

She left the plant.

[deep copper]

just different people now

[cedar wolf]

If a body sells a service for profit, and a government does profit, it is a business.

[verbal junco]

the government doesn't do it for profit.

[cursive crypt]

I mean, is that a common thing? I know so many women leaving their plants :/ Sometimes even pets.

[verbal junco]

but it would in a libertarian society

and yes, government would still exist in such a case

it would not be called a government, but a company

[cedar wolf]

but it does profit nonetheless, that's how it's employees and ruling members are paid

[deep copper]

govt did it to safeguard livelihood right?

[verbal junco]

that's not how it works. do you even understand basic business?

[fleet tangle]

You haven't given up either, I note.

[deep copper]

CE does have quite the stamina, my brain is fried

[fleet tangle]

XKCD, god tier comics.

[verbal junco]

to be fair at this point I'm either dealing with incompetence or being thoroughly trolled

and I can't tell the difference

[cedar wolf]

I believe so. I'd rather not banter at semantics about it though, if that's what you're offering.

[verbal junco]

if they were for profit, they would distribute that profit to whomever the shareholders were. there are no shareholders in the government. the income the government has gets distributed towards the services that they have to offer. e.g. helping the poor, defense, security, medical services etc.

if there was a profit it still gets distributed to these

plus, the government literally prints the money

[fleet tangle]

The governed are the defacto shareholders in that scenario, surely?

[cedar wolf]

no, I think we're simply both convinced that we're right and neither side is willing to budge. Trolling has nothing to do with it. Thinking us trolls removes from us the thought that our arguments are in any way even slightly legitimate, which is an extremely unhealthy way to have a discussion.

[verbal junco]

sure, but they are the same people paying. so it's a losing business for everyone since the government never turns a profit

nevermind again, that it prints the money being used

what company do you know is able to decide whether or not more money needs to be circulated?

[cedar wolf]

Not all businesses have shareholders, my man. Ours does, though, in the form of votes.

[verbal junco]

what business operates on inflation?

[cedar wolf]

Plus, business can still operate under negative net profit, though like was said, it's only a matter of time until it collapses. Then again, it could go on indefinitely so long as outside merchants are willing to collect debt in the form of negative credit, which is exactly what the US is doing by going a few trillion in debt.

[verbal junco]

nah it can't because it literally prints its own money

[fleet tangle]

Banks? 😛

[verbal junco]

unlike any company out there

[verbal junco]

the banks don't decide this

in the US, it's the treasury, which is part of (you guessed it) the government

[fleet tangle]

They heavily abuse the laws to create more money, though.

[verbal junco]

banks can't create more money

[cedar wolf]

That is certainly an advantage for a business to have, to control the amount of money in circulation.

[verbal junco]

they cannot create value where there is none

[fleet tangle]

A feedback loop of only needing to have like 10% of their lending power as actual capital. Something like that.

Then they borrow from each other.

I forget how exactly it worked.

[cedar wolf]

But they can't decide the value. Only the open market can do that.

[verbal junco]

it's why the government isn't a business and why your fallacy doesn't work

[deep copper]

it's close to an analogy if anything

[cedar wolf]

It is a business, just not a conventional one.

[verbal junco]

lmao the market decides nothing

the people that are printing the money decide how much the money is worth

because they have an infinite supply

[cedar wolf]

They control the prices of the things they sell.

[deep copper]

and i have heard printing money doesn't makes value from nothing, every other printed item looses value to give it value, which causes inflation 🤔 or is it wrong?

[verbal junco]

irrelevant in the case of currency

because they are still beholden to the worth of money

[cedar wolf]

Yeah, that's how it works, I believe.

[verbal junco]

correct. but banks don't control inflation. the government does

[fleet tangle]

I'm not sure "control" is entirely the right word there.

[cedar wolf]

Nah, you're right. So the government controls inflation by deciding how much money to print. When they print it directly takes value from the stores of everyone who owns it. Could see that as another form of tax and income.

[verbal junco]

it absolutely is. they can decide to print more money or take money out of circulation. they literally control how much inflation they want. inflation isn't universally bad either, some people get more out of it

for instance the poorest people in the country benefit from it because they get taxed less and get more money leftover, increasing their purchasing power

[fleet tangle]

You don't need to physical money to affect inflation, though.

[verbal junco]

feel free to elaborate on that

[cedar wolf]

Yeah, blanket raise in wages across the country, such as raising minimum wage, would also increase inflation.

[verbal junco]

who controls that though?

[deep copper]

i read hyperinflation in some country helped people pay loans, because value to oay back got messed up

pay*

[cedar wolf]

The gov, most of the time. They do in US.

[verbal junco]

and who controls inflation?

[cedar wolf]

I already specifically answered this question from you just a few messages ago, lol. What's your point.

[verbal junco]

I just wanted you to do the realization yourself that these are one and the same

[fleet tangle]

@verbal junco I'm just being pedantic, really. Regardless of how much money there is in circulation, the actual wealth of a country isn't in its printed money, or even if its physical reserves like gold, it's just all electronic now.

[cedar wolf]

That what are one and the same?

[fleet tangle]

I'm not saying printing more money doesn't affect it, but it's not the be all and end all.

[verbal junco]

the people who determine what a minimum wage is and the ones who control inflation

[fleet tangle]

You can generate "wealth" without money.

[deep copper]

point being, most of inflation is regulated by gov?

[verbal junco]

(it's the government)

[cedar wolf]

dude... there's no realization there. It's the gov, obviously.

Again, point?

[fleet tangle]

One of the reasons that increasing minimum wage doesn't help in the long run, because everyne has that much more money, the goods eventually catch up to cost more.

So you've got to keep raising the minimum wage so it stays ahead.

[verbal junco]

that's a fallacy

[fleet tangle]

How so?

[cedar wolf]

Also, because business have to pay their employees more now, that extra cost must be passed to the consumers.

[fleet tangle]

Are you saying that people having more capital to spend will not increase market prices?

[cedar wolf]

No. It's true.

[verbal junco]

no but you are suggesting an intrinsic link here

[fleet tangle]

It's a knock-on effect of people having more money.

[verbal junco]

it may be that prices are going to be marked up, but to suggest a systematic markup to counter minimum wages is laughable. let's remember that not everyone is on minimum wage

[cedar wolf]

Do you think that raisin minimum wage doesn't directly increase inflation? Because it does. That common business sense.

[fleet tangle]

I'm not saying people "hey, the minimum wage went up, let's increase the price of bread by 20p"

I'm saying it's a contributing factor in market prices because people have more capital.

[verbal junco]

sure I've said this before. I literally made the example. but that doesn't mean either can't be tweaked independently. don't forget that not everyone is on minimum wage

[verbal junco]

again, not everyone is on minimum wage. you're literally suggesting that market prices exploit the weakest in society

[fleet tangle]

Contributing factor. Also, wealth percolates to the top. If the people at the bottom have more money, they people above them make more money and so on.

[verbal junco]

contributing factor or not, this is at the discretion of the people offering the product

[fleet tangle]

Talking of minimum wage and market prices, this was actually a reason given by the American government for not increasing minimum wage several years ago.

[deep copper]

!8ball are you on minimum wage?

[turbid spindle]

@deep copper, :8ball: Outlook good.

[verbal junco]

and that is likely under some level of government control as well

[fleet tangle]

And when they see people have more money to spend, they will increase their prices. That's basic business sense.

[cedar wolf]

Also, think. people who weren't minimum wage before, assuming their wage didn't change, could be minimum wage now, as it has risen. So any self respecting person would expect their wages to increase at least somewhat, elsewise nothing would theoretically stop them from getting an easier job that pays the same minimum wage. If the the business wants to keep the worker, they will raise the wage. I know the specifics of job mechanics are more in depth than my example, but the same concept applies.

[verbal junco]

not unless they are being prevented from doing so. again they are hitting everyone with market price increases, not just those on minimum wage. and if you're a business, you'd rather target the people with more money than the people with less. it's basic business sense

[verbal junco]

this is pretty much why the covid crisis of people not wanting to work came into existence? we're still globally reeling from this

[cedar wolf]

My phone is doing strange things, lol. I've had to edit almost every message. I know y'all prolly could care less about typos and such, but it bothers me when I do them.

[fleet tangle]

Some businesses do cater for the richer people. Places like Whole Foods and so on. I'm sure there are places with extremely fancy and highly priced bread. But some companies target lots of low price sales as well.

[deep copper]

having the energy to edit messages, salute

[fleet tangle]

I'm totally OCD about spelling and typos in my messages.

[verbal junco]

my point remains: it is at the discretion of the business, not the government

[fleet tangle]

I never disagreed with that.

[verbal junco]

but I'm sure the government would step in if apples suddenly started costing $600

[fleet tangle]

My point was that the government gives everyone (by proxy) more money, so the businesses put their prices up.

[verbal junco]

not true, only those at the lowest level. minimum wage does not increase wages for everyone else

[deep copper]

you all are pretty much in agreement, just phrasing the same thing again and again a bit differently

[fleet tangle]

See my earlier messages about percolating!

[cedar wolf]

That last part is heavily dependent on the business, plus I don't think they actually care if a poor or rich person buys a product in the end, simply because they both pay the same price. Same profit either way. The only reason a business would target richer people is if they're more likely to buy the service or product, but the reverse is also true for the poor. There are services and product that poor are more likely to buy, and business that sell them would focus on them.

[verbal junco]

whether it percolates or not, a salary person receiving above minimum wage will not be affected by this from the side of their salary

[fleet tangle]

Not everyone, sure, but a lot of people.

[verbal junco]

so it's not a universal change, which would also not be reflected necessarily in market prices. in fact it would shoulder their salary to be less, eventually putting everyone closer to the same bracket.

[fleet tangle]

Damn.

America has a really shit minimum wage.

I was just curious exactly how many are on it and, fuck me, it's awful.

[verbal junco]

@ionic flame have one for free

[fleet tangle]

$7.25/hr in 2020.

That's like half the UK one.

[verbal junco]

US has huge wealth gap issues

[cedar wolf]

such is the nature of discourse, lol. All tryna understand what the others mean in what they're actually saying.

[fleet tangle]

US just has huge issues in general.

[deep copper]

if you ever need pings ask me

[fleet tangle]

It's an absolutely abyssmal place.

[verbal junco]

top earners earn a lot more than UK top earners

[deep copper]

or the other brothers

[verbal junco]

but their lowest earn less

[deep copper]

yup

[cedar wolf]

Oh, I hate that, lol. Especially when it's actually deleted so you can't even search it up.

[verbal junco]

now with the possibility of remote work I need to look into getting hired by the US while still in europe

so I can minmax this life ish

[deep copper]

you missed a lot of 🍿 tank

you missed a lot

just search by mentions ?

[verbal junco]

or just straight up start asking UK employers for US salaries

[deep copper]

i think intax pinged you

[cedar wolf]

yup, it's getting worse too. It could be even worse though, so I try to be thankful about what I can manage.

[deep copper]

for emilia waifu but that was hours back

[timber viper]

Hi 👋

[cedar wolf]

minmaxing FTW. You watch the spiffing brit by chance?

[timber viper]

Did it took so long to find out? 😄

[verbal junco]

I don't watch anything

I'm just scheming and evilposting really

[deep copper]

it's natural for them

[fleet tangle]

Except the interwebs, to look for libertarians!

[timber viper]

This possibility came to my mind but I thought Tank is a clever person and overcome this difficulty for the sake of Emilia-tan

[verbal junco]

the sad truth

[cedar wolf]

Oh, welp . It's a cool youtube channle.

😫

channel*

[deep copper]

ocd

yeah she gets rather annoying

[timber viper]

thats why Rem > Emilia

[deep copper]

mainly because of the way stuff happens

[deep copper]

let's not go there...

[timber viper]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

no spoilers pls

[verbal junco]

weebs

[timber viper]

ep 15 or something of s2

[verbal junco]

@ionic flame you missed some drama in #cpp btw

[timber viper]

It was quite intense today

I could ping you but..

[cedar wolf]

Oh yeH. I checked #cpp and it was not the memes channel. Somebody tricked me.

[verbal junco]

some dude got banned for being a POS

[deep copper]

ping first, ask later

[cedar wolf]

POS

[verbal junco]

the same guy who a few weeks back blocked people with weeb avatars

[cedar wolf]

oh nnvm nvm

[verbal junco]

and said he'd rather not be helped by them

[cedar wolf]

got it

[fleet tangle]

Also, they will if the company makes more money and puts their wages up. Or maybe the business won't. Shrug

No, he's back.

Different account, etc.

[verbal junco]

of course. which name this time? @fleet tangle

[deep copper]

it is the most meme channel here

closest to it

[verbal junco]

then we had another dude in lounge arguing for hate speech on discord

[fleet tangle]

Are we talking right now or just today? I thought we were talking about today (Cralpi)

[verbal junco]

yeah if he's back, under which handle?

[deep copper]

that's a complicated name

[fleet tangle]

He's probably back already, but I don't know who!

[deep copper]

well i have anime pfp so I won't have to deal with them atleast

[verbal junco]

idk this dude made peps seem reasonable

[fleet tangle]

Probably dragonHell.

[timber viper]

Legends says Peps will return one day

[deep copper]

what is peps

[verbal junco]

peps is an idea

[cedar wolf]

Yo, @verbal junco , I enjoyed the convo and learned some stuff. Thanks for being civil and stuff. Just wanted to say that. Kinda funny that I felt the need to because civility should be common, but can't take nice stuff for granted nowadays. No hard feelings on my end 'n stuff.

[verbal junco]

I haven't blocked you yet so we good

[fleet tangle]

Related, but not related. I always thought Pepsi should make a sleeping tablet called narcopepsi.

[deep copper]

necro pepsi for death

[verbal junco]

do you have a link to HoJo's Peps chart?

[fleet tangle]

It's the internet. Where people reveal their true selves under the guise of anonymity. And we all despair.

[cedar wolf]

Mmm, yeah

[timber viper]

Getting blocked by CE speed run %any

• sends a friend request

[verbal junco]

#cpp message

[deep copper]

is it landscape on tick thing summary? the link takes me different messeges each time

[cedar wolf]

Oh. Cpp is c++. lol

Huh

[trail wedge]

wait what about somolia

[verbal junco]

somolia, the land of somol 32 gb data tables? 😅

[deep copper]

somalia is a place or a username?

[trail wedge]

oh peps

got it

thought you meant today's banning

[deep copper]

i should go to cpp more often, it seems like a fun place where ban hammer strikes often

[verbal junco]

that screenshot from today with the typos was gold too though

[fleet tangle]

Banhammer++

[verbal junco]

and their response to being told to try again was basically "I give up"

[cedar wolf]

That's so strange tho. It just supposed be a chat about programming stuff in c++, right?

[fleet tangle]

Probably the blueprint and hot reload hate speech.

[deep copper]

yes but programmers type so fast they can fit in 50 jokes in the middle of it , while someone types query

[trail wedge]

I thought we were talking about Cralpi at first

[timber viper]

It was kinda cruel they encountered us in that time tbh. That guy could be guided to right direction easily

[verbal junco]

perhaps yeah. but I mean it was only typos preventing their code from working

[deep copper]

also it has strange people from time to time