I think the issue is that youre still confined to largely representational art styles. Games like Scorn or say Antichamber have more troubles expressing the mechanics to players. When its closer match to reality people make the connection with reality, very similar to why we like to impart human-like qualities on things which typically wouldnt have them, toys, cars, dinosaurs, aliens etc
#lounge
pearl elk
warm bloom
hmm yeah I guess. think thats easier for a more friendly art style in that sense can convey things nonchalantly enough
pearl elk
Obviously you'll always get hardcore gamers who might be invested enough to work their way through regardless but for accessibility in terms of a larger audience. I think its why we see more homogenisation, more games like The Forest, Green Hell or Rust versus Solus or No Mans Sky
warm bloom
I've realized over the years in games the majority of people are rather stupid and don't pick things up quickly so they resort to never ending complaints cheating or abusing balances
whether it be single player or multiplayer
it ruins games
pearl elk
I just tend to swear profusely at the screen until I battle through or rage quit 😛
unreal ether
😤
warm bloom
yep I do swear at games too
it also not only the representational art styles to benefit the users but also the ease of developing a game that is based on set and stone principles theres zero creativity involved
the story boarding and other shit can be done way quicker
not that I hate all of it
I rather enjoy games trying to stick to realism but that is usually in the scope of shooters
and nothing else lol
pearl elk
Yup, less actual design work which is always sad for me because its my favourite part. Plenty of projects Ive been on people just want to 1:1 reality, oh if you can do it irl it should be a player verb. You end up with a list as large as the universe of animations and code to do lol
warm bloom
I don't even play many games anymore I no longer preorder nor buy titles that use to be like 100%
buys
I just wait
they become cheaper and I have less expectations
patient gaming is the way
pearl elk
Its funny because some of the best games Ive played have very limited actions and Im not particularly overwhelmed if a game has alot
pearl elk
cant do them all at once though
warm bloom
especially if you mix that with any pvp or pve elements
something that could be rather linear ends up having tons of approaches
pearl elk
Thats definitely true, I think linear has become a taboo word
warm bloom
I mean lol even a story game that is linear just giving people options that still end up going the same direction regardless makes it feel less stale
pearl elk
Thing is players have their own story, even in some of the most linear games its rare to witness an identical play through. Having that limited space also gives you alot more options in regards to details or extra interesting mechanics you can add rather than just all this open area most people will fast travel over
Some games definitely benefit from that sort of scale but God of War did some epic things before it went to a more open format, it seemed like a logical progression for them rather than the default starting point.
warm bloom
that's like the amount of people who complained about Hogwarts Legacy not having lots of spells I played it and you can have 16 unique spells at once ??? that and having to deal with dodge mechanics made it rather fun
if you can't use your scroll wheel that's your own damn fault
the other thing is the spells all have individual cool downs
you're actually punished for using only 4
the other stupid thing is like I don't know if people read the books but they used like 3 whole spells in that entire series tbh lol
pearl elk
Maybe there are better ways to do the inputs, thats one thing we could probably try to be more creative with. Ive had some interesting ideas lately on improving certain things. I play some games and its like the 90s called they want their control scheme back
pearl elk
Its more about functionality than the mappings
for example, scroll wheel scrolling to weapons in your inventory wihtout ammo
not hard to check before trying to switch
warm bloom
ahh I dislike scroll wheel for weapons
I much prefer 1-2-3-4-... approach
personally
pearl elk
Even then you can still direct switch to weapons without ammo
warm bloom
maybe it's because I'm super used to moba layout
pearl elk
which is certainly something a trained weapons expert would do right 😉
warm bloom
it really depends on scenario but yeah
sometimes realism is portrayed in the proper aspects it's simply to punish players and break immersion
pearl elk
I just find it adds nothing overall that you can fail a switch in such a way
warm bloom
lol
though it depends on how reloading works
say you scroll to the next loaded weapon or melee
or you have to manually go to unloaded
via numkeys
pearl elk
Thats just one example though, its still very late 90s in the way the inputs are in alot of cases. Console games tend to be more inventive since they have limited options and more analog choices
warm bloom
I mean I feel the simple things tend to be overlooked especially in larger companies
those systems are the first things that are probably made
and then never iterated upon
it also is always gonna be less creative in games that aren't breaking the bounds of realism
because the lack of unique mechanics usually requires less of that kind of thing
pearl elk
Ive just been a part of alot of projects where the default input mappings are set before any design work is even done, its like wtf lol. Nothing wrong with standards but you gotta give designers room to be creative and come up with improvements
Like space for jump... but what if the game doesnt have jump, so what is space for now?
warm bloom
usually most games require inventory systems so it's one of the first things worked on
so then
you add your weapons or whatever
interactions etc
so it legitimately is the first shit done
pearl elk
Then you battle for months over jumping and dont get any actual work done because "what game doesnt have jump!!" lol
warm bloom
I really like in depth movement and interaction systems
like in escape from tarkov I wish more games has variable crouching
and movement speed
pearl elk
Then you get old and realise most people dont jump unless they are evading a predator or at the gym haha
warm bloom
and even they could do more with it in my opinion
pearl elk
Splinter Cell did that too
warm bloom
yeah having like variable adjustments to movement and interactions
can make shit approachable in so many more ways
pearl elk
I want an adrenaline reload, I can tell you that in a fire fight Im not gonna be reloading like a grandma
Gears of War was wicked like that
warm bloom
I like skill systems that will modify that stuff
though if you are a trained soldier
some of the shit is really stupid
like I said it's just to punish the player
pearl elk
Yeah it is and you can feel it as a player, breaks the immersion since I wanna pretend Im Rambo not Dumbo 😛
Spend 10 seconds pulling out an LMG I have no ammo for
1000 ways to die
warm bloom
tbh why even use an lmg
pearl elk
Well if the LMGs wernt nerfed to hell to make battle rifles useful 😛
Battlefield 3 did it pretty well, you could really lay down some nice fire and setup times wernt stupid long. Realistically though you'd need someone to carry ammo, well these days... a robot dog
Camel mounted LMG
warm bloom
dice has died as a company unfortunately
most of not all the original developers left
so now it's just some shell company owned by EA
that produces mainstream dogshit instead of sticking to their roots
battlefield 2047 was 100% a battleroyale game that got changed to be what it is now halfway through
lofty lark
There is Embark now though, which is composed of a lot of DICE vets.
warm bloom
There is Embark now though, which is composed of a lot of DICE vets.
yeah that game looked like fun
pearl elk
Yeah its not what it used to be where we had iD, Dice, Treyarch, Raven and Infinity Ward firing on all cylinders
warm bloom
I can't say til I play it though
the only thing coming out of EA that excites me is that f2p skate game
lofty lark
yeah that game looked like fun
Which one? They got The Finals and Arc Raiders coming out soon.
pearl elk
We'll see what the servers are like though
lofty lark
I find it odd they are actively working on two titles at the same time though.
warm bloom
that's pretty normal tbh especially if they have a large art team
pearl elk
I mean could be an awesome game but I live on the arse end of the planet where servers tend to be cheap 😦
warm bloom
there's lots of unused workers
like they still may need programmers to work on x
but what about all the animators sound design and artists
lofty lark
Afaict, they are their own publisher as well.
lofty lark
Oh? Where'd you find that?
lofty lark
warm bloom
though there aren't many game companies that aren't acquired or published by another company
pearl elk
It might be more of a partnership for servers in Asia and publishing in that region not like a global publishing agreement
warm bloom
It might be more of a partnership for servers in Asia and publishing in that reg...
no they got bought for 96M in 2019
lofty lark
It might be more of a partnership for servers in Asia and publishing in that reg...
The sole strategic equity investor in Embark, Nexon will also serve as worldwide publisher for titles developed by the new company.
warm bloom
coffeestain is the only publisher that has yet to make me shed tears
pearl elk
Yeah I cant read black on white, pain in the arse
its 7am, too early for newspaper white on my screen 😛
warm bloom
game studios are plagued by corporate companies that usually make all their money in the stock market
so they don't care about anything but making money
and doing things in the interest of shareholders
pearl elk
Its a worry because big companies like that are quick to pull the plug as the first sign of the investment not paying off
Lets play some Lawbreakers 😛
warm bloom
yep that's exactly why you see games studios instantly stop providing that long term support and content real quickly
that's one of the main reasons I actually like hello games
pearl elk
Oh I miss Blizzard of old, they released a patch for Diablo 2 so many years after release and it wasnt even a live service type game
warm bloom
why care about consumers that already bought the product lmao
I mean look at cyberpunk that shit was dogass and they still end up winning due to having so much money to buy marketing
pearl elk
Thats a problem I find with CoD and Battlefield is they are so quick to move on it hurts the franchise because people are still willing to play the older titles. Its cannibalising their own business then they get all upset when their strategy bites them in the arse
warm bloom
live service games are super expensive to run
pearl elk
So why try to make a new one each year 😛
warm bloom
though at the same time
even if they cost them millions a year to run servers their sales will always outweigh that
also another issue with the COD franchise is how many studios they have working on titles
pearl elk
Yeah 1 CoD game is like so many minigames these days, Zombies shoulda totally spun off on its own but then people wouldnt buy the core series or black ops
warm bloom
I didn't even buy the new cod just played dmz and watched the campaign online
i can say that it's a good game though
it's fun
zombies could definitely be its own entire thing adding more story more unlockable zones
more easter eggs
pearl elk
I think Epic have the right idea with the Game Features plugin, then you can expand the base game and sell those separately rather than trying to bundle it all
warm bloom
could even break into the left 4 dead category
dead island 2 comes out next month
after being in the works for 12 years
pearl elk
Im actually impressed how Dead Island it looks, I was expecting a totally different look and feel to it but its pretty spot on as far as I can tell
warm bloom
yeah it looks really good
with the expectation of bugs
but they tend to be funny in those kinds of games
pearl elk
Looks like its even taking the stuff from Riptide with the player being infected but mutating
warm bloom
unlike pvp with losses incurred multiplayer
pearl elk
I liked Dying Light but it was a much more depressing game, Dead Island had this odd sense of humour to it
pearl elk
Ive not tried it, sounded interesting but I never actually beat the first one
warm bloom
it's parkour was bad
which sucks for a game that you know
is mainly parkour
I found it rather repetitive in terms of environment
and the animations and player models were clunky and weird
pearl elk
Yeah those systems are starting to feel janky against more modern games which are very flowy
After Doom 2016 any game with a long mantle time is like yawn lol
I think part of the issue is the animations just have way too many frames, I remember watching a talk about those Doom anims and they made them so damn short
regal pecan
Power fantasy versus movement puzzle
pearl elk
puzzles can still be flowy, thats why Tetris and Portal are awesome
warm bloom
I think overall it's not like the worst game ever
maybe like a 6.5-7/10
imo
like not disappointed on buying it
but just not remarkable
pearl elk
I think its fine to be critical, "positive vibes only" is such a damaging take
warm bloom
it's like not god of war type good
forgettable
I think too many games nowadays can get passed as good simply because they look nice
warm bloom
far from cyberpunk 2077 bad
that one actually made me want to shovel my own feces in my mouth
that would have been an enjoyable experience
pearl elk
I actually enjoyed Cyberpunk 2077 alot lol
warm bloom
when did you play it on release?
pearl elk
but its probably just because I loved the first person cutscenes
pearl elk
Its not often you get proper cinematic style first person, better than HL2 stuck in a box cutscenes
I tried so hard to knock Pam back man, she still got me in the tank... totally not consensual :\
pearl elk
All I wanted was to blow shit up in the tank, nek minnit
warm bloom
but in terms of an open world game
it feels worse than GTA 5
I tend to explore out of bounds areas and do stupid stuff in games
pearl elk
oh yeah its not a great open world game but as a SP game its fine
warm bloom
but that game just feels like so many things went into the killing floor
pearl elk
tbh Im not a fan of open world so I didnt spend too much time trying to exploit that area
warm bloom
and the things they promised upon were heavily under delivered
along with them overworking all their employees
they could have delayed the game another year
it was far from ready
and that's just the reality
pearl elk
I even have a tweet about how I thought it was a bad idea to target those old crappy consoles
since the new Xbox had just been announced
I wonder if that might have been some pressure from Microsoft
I knew it was never going to be as good graphics as the announcement trailer lol
But yeah Cyberpunk 2077 very underrated in the First Person story telling department, we just dont get that often if at all
warm bloom
well they obviously spent more time developing everything linearly revolving around the story
but for a game that was also supposed to eventually release multiplayer
and be open world
it's terrible
pearl elk
you cant rate a game based on features it didnt have though
game without MP doesnt have MP therefore bad MP
but Im not gonna dispute the open world stuff, it was never gonna be GTA though
my expectations were at the exact right place when it released
proud jay
warm bloom
that is true in a sense but as a consumer who is being told and shown features and tons of shit in trailers and also legitimate YouTube videos and media coverage and interviews discussing stuff
for them to underdeliver so much
its like being sold a puzzle and having 30% of the pieces missing lol
and the other thing is them simply even going a year down the line
not improving upon those types of things significantly
and dropping multiplayer
etc
they didn't even redeem it
warm bloom
Cool https://github.com/microsoft/visual-chatgpt
I like how it understands the context of the image
that is actually cool
but the images look like poop 😂
that's probably why bunch of people from openai were saying to keep your expectations low
regal pecan
Hey Mr. Chatman, make me a meme...
under 4gb vram usage, might explain the images looking "poop"
regal pecan
Microsoft loves trademarking things with "Visual" in the name
pearl elk
that is true in a sense but as a consumer who is being told and shown features a...
This is where my expectations were at, I knew this wasnt a Rockstar game with hundreds of millions for the budget
https://preview.redd.it/qssbyunxcec41.jpg?auto=webp&s=3bcee2faed7f062bd3d66a297b9659169980e06a
pearl elk
Microsoft loves trademarking things with "Visual" in the name
Visual Outlook when?
warm bloom
the sky sure is pretty though
doesn't it make it worth it
that wood texture though it looks like the default wood texture in Roblox
😂
pearl elk
Im actually kinda glad I cant jump a ferrari over a city and bounce it off a 747 in Cyberpunk 2077 😛
zinc matrix
i like how they put the text horse on that horse. otherwise i wouldnt know
regal pecan
is that about physics or product placement?
pearl elk
i like how they put the text horse on that horse. otherwise i wouldnt know
You might be horseblind, this way you can still see it
pearl elk
is that about physics or product placement?
If it had horse armour on it'd be product placement
It was weird playing an open world game that wasnt trying to sell me shit, I had to double check Cyberpunk 2077s release date
zinc matrix
computer security and privacy in video games
thats OS's problem 😎
well, maybe not in multiplayer game, but i wouldnt know
cursive crypt
Sad sale, no single product form the wishlist.
pearl elk
Sale prices are regular prices
More to do with the fact that digital assets dont depreciate so the regular price never falls. Sales are so often the sale price might as well be regular price, then we could have actual sales occasionally
But aye, economy is in the dumpster so I guess we're stuck in this rut for awhile
I remember when our dollar was on the up after the GFC, it was stronger than the greenback for awhile and sales were like Christmas
Is that where they keep all the fake titties?
lofty lark
Bank was storing x amount of money for people. Bank only had y amount of money (y < x). Because banks like to give money out, that they don't have, to people. Some thing happened, I don't remember exactly what, but people panicked and decided to start pulling their money out of the bank. Bank started going in negative monies because they had to give money that didn't exist. Government then shut down bank. America 🇺🇸
Something like that
pearl elk
Investment that went south wasnt it, bank invested peoples money to make more money but didnt keep enough to cover their losses
This is why you gotta diversify your portfolio
I member the days of meme stonks, good days... we went to the moon with diamond hands
The more things change the more they stay the same
fleet tangle
Bank was storing x amount of money for people. Bank only had y amount of money (...
Basically banks only have to have 10% of the capital they actually give to people. Or something like that.
And banks abuse that to lend each other money so they have even less real capital.
It all works fine until people want the money back.
primal summit
Basically banks only have to have 10% of the capital they actually give to peopl...
that's how they create (mlm) money, loaning what's deposited, getting paid back before withdrawals
fleet tangle
Hopefully before.
It's all just fucked after the US removed the separation of high and low risk banking.
Gg Bush.
warm bloom
I member the days of meme stonks, good days... we went to the moon with diamond ...
I made bank off that
lol
warm bloom
It all works fine until people want the money back.
the worst part is when people want money and they don't have it the people who pay for it are the taxpayers
so you get double fucked
🙂
regal pecan
Basically banks only have to have 10% of the capital they actually give to peopl...
This was lowered to 0% due to the pandemic and never reversed.
Wait, no, I was thinking of how much of depositor's money the bank keeps as money. Can't imagine why you'd lower it below 10%. Even below 50% seems risky.
scenic glen
will epic support an ai like chat gpt to easily formulate workflows or logic lets say create blueprint nodes or a string of blueprints for a certain logic? I know chatgpt can make C++, but wanted to see if an ai backed by epic can make blueprints, animgraph and material logic
regal pecan
the worst part is when people want money and they don't have it the people who p...
The SVB and Signature bailout(-ish)s are supposedly being paid for by all other federally insured banks, so it's not paid by tax funds and maybe not even tax deductible. It's ironic that treating something like a bank failure as normal, and planning for it, makes a more robust system than trying to avoid bank failures entirely. I'm sure that would be disgusting in code.
broken sigil
will epic support an ai like chat gpt to easily formulate workflows or logic let...
That's very unlikely considering how unreliable LLMs can be, not to mention when a new c++ function is exposed it would need retraining to know about it
pearl elk
Im actually extremely interested in what Epic will do with Quixel, I wanna be able to paint geo using ML thats trained off Megascans library
celest musk
will epic support an ai like chat gpt to easily formulate workflows or logic let...
chatgpt can't code
pearl elk
That way we get more use out it rather than just kitbashing and it'll help with overdraw
celest musk
it can by best throw some examples on you, if they are good or are actually logical correct is way beyond it's capabilities
pearl elk
it could learn the text behind BP perhaps
cursive crypt
Mass be spaghetti, learn spaghetti. Better to open a Pasta restaurant.
zinc matrix
soft night
not so cool thing when you worry if your laptop is booting or not
had to search my bitlocker key
proud jay
do you have a lot of homework to hide with that bitlocker
soft night
surface laptop comes with bitlocker
last time i got that thing for boot issues was when i end up reinstal windows
proud jay
why you buying a surface
so overpriced
nice laptop, but it's like apple tax on microsoft product
soft night
its first gen surface laptop
proud jay
you still can have better value for the money
proud jay
I went by foot
zinc matrix
Haha that's funny @proud jay
proud jay
thank you
zinc matrix
Lol
proud jay
I had to think really hard about it
zinc matrix
Are you an NPC or something
proud jay
are you
zinc matrix
Maybe I'm the NPC
proud jay
exactly
proud jay
cocaine
zinc matrix
What
proud jay
what
zinc matrix
Ah yes
Cocaine
Good for lungs
No for real now @proud jay what are you up to
I'm making an exploration survival game
It's named Skyla
zinc matrix
Since when is painting landscape so complicated
proud jay
always has been
zinc matrix
At first it invisible then black then works
zinc matrix
always has been
I don't know when I was in unity I think it was a bit easier
proud jay
no one is forcing you to do unreal
proud jay
What you do
backend development for supply chain planning stuff
atm mostly fixing bugs though
unborn lotus
and don't forget slacking
proud jay
of course
zinc matrix
Hey @unborn lotus what's up
What are you doing
Did you know there's a chance we're all NPCs
zinc matrix
no one is forcing you to do unreal
Didn't say I don't enjoy it
Just commenting lol
Hey you know how in fortnite they make it so the stuff blends with the material
Like you have a tree and grass
The downside of the tree is greenish
Like texture blending
If I figure how to do that
Damn that'd be awesome
Also I wonder what's coming in Unreal Engine 5.2
@proud jay what do you think
@unborn lotus you too
Come on someone talk to me
Oh come on
You must be kidding
fleet tangle
This was lowered to 0% due to the pandemic and never reversed.
And this is why we can't have nice things.
old machines what not made to last
proud jay
have you ever heard of the word "that"
in that way
ancient ingot
♥️
Two and a half tonnes of uranium have gone missing from a site in Libya, the UN's nuclear watchdog has said.
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) sounded the alarm after a visit by its inspectors to the undisclosed site earlier this week.
nothing serious then
unreal ether
Eh weve had worse
ancient ingot
true, but i think any missing uranium is cause for concern
timber viper
Two and a half tonnes of uranium have gone missing from a site in Libya, the UN'...
But it was removed from a "very remote location in southern Libya,"
was not in government-controlled territory.
ancient ingot
makes it even worse lol
timber viper
there are three powers in Libya: 🇹🇷 🇪🇺 and UN
one of them should be responsible
or irresponsible, depending on how you look at it
fleet tangle
I mean, it's the responsible thing to do to move it to a safer location!
And not to tell anyone where that is.
ancient ingot
well the buck has to stop with the IAEA for not making sure all of the yellow coke was "secure" that is their job right ?
unreal ether
Surely it stops with whoever is in charge of the site.
fleet tangle
It's stops with the government in libya who put that person in charge.
timber viper
very remote southern Libya means non UN recognized government
ancient ingot
maybe the FSB stole it 😉
primal summit
Two and a half tonnes of uranium have gone missing from a site in Libya, the UN'...
ore or refined?
primal summit
not as panic-inducing then
ancient ingot
nope, if it was that much refined the U.S wouldve bombed Libya...again
unreal ether
It's ok. They're just building a uranium glass skyscraper!
primal summit
trinitite skyscraper's better
winter coral
Still waiting for #verse 😄
https://twitter.com/FNCreate/status/1636344104702312449
fleet tangle
What if the AI could learn to remove the cloak layer? Oh? It did it already? Oops.
foggy path
timber viper
terse wasp
<@297744474703134722> https://twitter.com/icKrisp/status/1636345900841816070?s=2...
Huh - what's this? What are you showing me?
No Verse? Trash reveal
timber viper
terse wasp
gimmie gimmie gimmie
timber viper
probably
cursive crypt
Why care about Verse btw? 🤔
proud jay
because we live in the meta Verse
timber viper
Why care about Verse btw? 🤔
for me its just discovery and learning
terse wasp
For me - it's the potential for programming not to be complete ass in my engine of choice
I see artists and designers getting all these fancy tools and I get...C++
🙄
proud jay
finally something simpler than c++ that is usable in version control
timber viper
how come its simpler when there are no bools
terse wasp
Less types baby
timber viper
maybe I'm too old school
cursive crypt
I'm not sure what is its purpose, if you are writing text programming it may as well be C++, but then I suppose people want to avoid it 🤔
foggy path
I'm not sure what is its purpose, if you are writing text programming it may as ...
If Verse gives you fast iteration I could see it being useful
- it has a few handy features that make some things a bit nicer to deal with
terse wasp
C++ is garbage. A pile of hot garbage. Epic has done a decent job (imo) of making it easier, but it is still C++. And iteration times suck so much with C++.
cursive crypt
If Verse gives you fast iteration I could see it being useful
But it is FaST. I mean, you should spend most of your time thinking of what to code than to build-run, build-run, repeat.
timber viper
I'm not sure what is its purpose, if you are writing text programming it may as ...
Verse has transactional memory thing and they invented a new calculus thing that we dont know why tf its useful yet
foggy path
But it is FaST. I mean, you should spend most of your time thinking of what to c...
I dunno the compile cycle already takes so long that I get distracted waiting for UE to launch
So if the wait goes away that's good :P
cursive crypt
Hmm... I dunno about that. You can prototype on BP fast say. Then my compile cycle is like 1+ second (for empty) so that fast.
terse wasp
Imagine, just for a moment, a world where you can be running your game on Xbox/PS/Switch and see that something needs to change and you change it in your script and it just...happens...live.
foggy path
I can't do everything in BP's I can do in C++, plus there's the whole "it's a binary blob" problem with BP's
also I'd rather not iterate in BPs and then port to C++
timber viper
Imagine, just for a moment, a world where you can be running your game on Xbox/P...
if verse will be asset based that wont happen btw
and it will be asset based %99
foggy path
if I can just do all in Verse and not have to bother to port anywhere then that's also good
cursive crypt
Imagine, just for a moment, a world where you can be running your game on Xbox/P...
The only reason I see it useful. Having what most games have like dynamic scripting language. It is not a system one, neither is a tool one - like python.
terse wasp
and it will be asset based %99
They already showed it happening back in 2020. Updating a live running game in Fortnite at least.
terse wasp
They were playing the FNC thing - then the author was in the editor, changed some stuff, and it updated in-game
ancient ingot
It will be called the Manchester Prize in honour of Baby, the world's first stored-program computer, built at the University of Manchester in 1948.
Jeremy Hunt said he wanted the "best AI research to happen in the UK".```editor is fine
terse wasp
Skookum could do it in a deployed game. They bought out the devs of Skookum. I have high confidence that it'll be there.
timber viper
The only reason I see it useful. Having what most games have like dynamic script...
dont you thing for gameplay scripting C++ is overkill though
cursive crypt
Still nice they didn't decided to go with a blasphemy like Lua for dyn scripting.
cursive crypt
dont you thing for gameplay scripting C++ is overkill though
As a "system", make with it tools for gameplay or whatever enables you iterations.
stray orbit
I like C++, but also... give me Verse. C++ is bad game language. 😛
timber viper
I'm a fan of having hardcore C++ at one side, like pure data driven and some OOP on the other side where user can abuse things and yolo.. BP does latter one well but UE's core framework fails at first one terribly 😄
cursive crypt
Bad for gameplay or? That I understand. Also it is good, no? So many games made with it.
terse wasp
If C++ works for you for gameplay scripting, you do you boo.
stray orbit
Many games made with it out of necessity... not because it's good.
terse wasp
I for one, would prefer to live post-2000's personally.
cursive crypt
I'm a fan of having hardcore C++ at one side, like pure data driven and some OOP...
Makes me wonder why they didn't went with BPs out of Editor instead of Verse 🤔
cursive crypt
I for one, would prefer to live post-2000's personally.
So, C++23
terse wasp
Yeah, 23 ain't going to be supported by the gamedev world for like another decade
So, it is irrelevant to me.
stray orbit
C++ Modules do make C++ way, way, wayyyy more bearable for larger things. 😅 But, we won't see it any time soon, I bet.
cursive crypt
Yeah, 23 ain't going to be supported by the gamedev world for like another decad...
UE is on 17, 20 works out of the box. What are you sayin'
stray orbit
Do we have UE5 header modules yet? 😛
terse wasp
I know you can do 20 for your module.
I also know that it is a big risk if you're going for console support.
stray orbit
No point in having C++20 support if the engine doesn't have C++ modules.
cursive crypt
Do we have UE5 header modules yet? 😛
UE has a lot of legacy burden. There are tons of things too old someone to bother improve.
terse wasp
Because those are even more late to the game
cursive crypt
I also know that it is a big risk if you're going for console support.
You should use a process then. The language features, nobody stops you neither they are relevant to whatever is the hardware. Put limits on the linked library, UE covers a lot of these tho.
cursive crypt
Or - I can just move to the modern age.
But it is a modern.
terse wasp
If by modern, you mean like 2005, then I agree.
stray orbit
😅
cursive crypt
I said up, 17, UE. Or if you talk about the UE code base, which is veeery old in general.
terse wasp
But I'm not going to sit here and continue with yet another pointless language debate
cursive crypt
I'm always happy to gospel the true dominance of C++, bow.
stray orbit
I been using C++ since the 1990s. It is, most definitely, ass. 😛 C++ shoulda adopted modules way back when object pascal did...
cursive crypt
Hey, you can't change stuff with so many users and money on it.
cursive crypt
Sure you will fail fast then.
timber viper
C# does though 😄
stray orbit
They constantly do it.
cursive crypt
Small changes.
stray orbit
But instead of doing it 20 years ago when it mattered... they waited until like a couple years ago.
cursive crypt
Modules and etc are old idea, but needed a lot of time to get crystalized.
stray orbit
How so? Pascal did it decades ago. 😛
cursive crypt
But it is, there is a reason it wasn accepted sooner.
Also Pascal is kinda gone language, despite the modules 🙂
cursive crypt
Frankly I dunno, but it is no near as mentioned as it was 15 years ago say.
Subjectively.
stray orbit
Object pascal... #13 on the TIOBE index. 😛
cursive crypt
Ah, okay.
winter coral
terse wasp
So - looks like it has stayed largely the same
stray orbit
Good ideas are good ideas. 🤷♀️ And headers have been hated since the C era.
terse wasp
@fringe sundial 👆
cursive crypt
Good ideas are good ideas. 🤷♀️ And headers have been hated since the C era.
I bet there are reasons for not jumping on that wagon for so much time 🙂
stray orbit
Yeah, laziness, and people hate change... even though they hated headers.
cursive crypt
Yeah, laziness, and people hate change... even though they hated headers.
I wouldn't say laziness. Language is big, many people work their ass on it. Many more use it.
fleet tangle
It'd be great if there was some sort of auto-header tool so you just write the cpp and it generated the header for you
stray orbit
It'd be great if there was some sort of auto-header tool so you just write the c...
Or, just use C++20 where headers are no longer necessary. 😛
proud jay
Good ideas are good ideas. 🤷♀️ And headers have been hated since the C era.
gib c# pls
proud jay
Or, just use C++20 where headers are no longer necessary. 😛
they still are, but you just export/import through modules right?
fleet tangle
Or, just use C++20 where headers are no longer necessary. 😛
Oh? Why's that?
stray orbit
they still are, but you just export/import through modules right?
Nope, if you're not dragging legacy code, you need zero headers.
cursive crypt
You need to export the code tho. And I doubt Epic would care to do that soon 🤔
proud jay
If you don't have legacy code, the real question is, why are you writing c++
stray orbit
You can write your whole class as your class... and just export only the parts you actually need to export.
cursive crypt
If you don't have legacy code, the real question is, why are you writing c++
Because it is bae
proud jay
Because it is bae
wait I thought you were hater
fleet tangle
You can write your whole class as your class... and just export only the parts y...
I mean, this is talking about exporting and importing, how does it change how headers are required internally in a module?
terse wasp
thats good, fuck nullptrs
I don't like the seemingly multiple file naming style though 😅. snake_case, PascalCase
ancient ingot
what about the camels!
proud jay
I guess c++20 modules are close to c# namespaces
cursive crypt
I mean, this is talking about exporting and importing, how does it change how he...
A benefit would be, muuuch faster compilation.
stray orbit
I mean, this is talking about exporting and importing, how does it change how he...
Because you're not dragging shit around your files like a dog hauling its itchy ass along a carpet. 😛
fleet tangle
That's a bit of a non-answer.
cursive crypt
I guess c++20 modules are close to c# namespaces
You mean c# close to Java, close to Pascal as we understood.
proud jay
Java bad
stray orbit
That's a bit of a non-answer.
It's the most descriptive way I can think of answering it.
proud jay
☕
soft night
Java RMI is cool
proud jay
even Java lord Jon Skeet is C# gang
terse wasp
I also wonder if they expect the function signature to be so tightly packed. 🤔
stray orbit
With headers... I have to define a class, and then I have to define any classes that class uses... then I have to give that in a header to everything else that uses that class. With C++ module... none of that happens.
cursive crypt
even Java lord Jon Skeet is C# gang
C# is Microsoft Java
proud jay
I also wonder if they expect the function signature to be so tightly packed. 🤔
less characters = faster game
fleet tangle
It's the most descriptive way I can think of answering it.
I mean, if I have 2 classes that reference each other, c++17 I need headers to avoid include loops. Does c++20 not require includes at all? Does it not care about circular references? What's changed?
proud jay
C# is Microsoft Java
but like not stuck in 2004
terse wasp
C# is Microsoft Java
This response explains a lot about you.
cursive crypt
but like not stuck in 2004
It still runs 2 billion devices.
proud jay
I think they claim 8 billion now
cursive crypt
oh
proud jay
I mean, if I have 2 classes that reference each other, c++17 I need headers to a...
you can work without includes if you use modules
soft night
when oracle bough sun the java have being stuck
proud jay
but you import the module
not sure how it works with circular stuff though
haven't tried it personally
fleet tangle
So each class is its own module?
stray orbit
Each class is its own module. Or functions even, if you want.
fleet tangle
And the circular references?
proud jay
there's some basic examples here https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/cpp/modules-cpp?view=msvc-170
fringe sundial
@fleet tangle circular dependencies are not allowed in modules
proud jay
but I should really try it out sometime in practice
fringe sundial
at all
stray orbit
You can even break modules apart into partial modules for edge cases.
fringe sundial
current meta for bypassing that is to have a normal cpp header with forward declarations and include-ing that into the modules
fleet tangle
<@163374417634656257> circular dependencies are not allowed in modules
Well that's exactly my point. So you still need headers...
proud jay
so to not have headers you need headers
soft night
https://playwright.dev/dotnet/ even playright have dotnet and other languages
fringe sundial
modules are complete garbage
stray orbit
The coolest thing that I love about C++... you can define a class in a module... instance that class in the module; and only export the instance... and never have to share anything else from the module. ONLY the instance of the class. And everyone will still have access to its methods, etc.
fringe sundial
ignore them as useless
soft night
even java
fringe sundial
plus atm no platform except visual studio on latest update (no consoles, no phones) supports modules even a bit
and visual studio modules are barely working
fleet tangle
The coolest thing that I love about C++... you can define a class in a module......
You can do that with an interface and private stuff currently?
stray orbit
so to not have headers you need headers
No, in those edge cases... you just use partial modules.
cursive crypt
This response explains a lot about you.
Wdym, or you don't know?
fleet tangle
It sounds like some sort of module circle jerk that really solves nothing.
soft night
how you rate this functionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_remote_method_invocation
stray orbit
You can do that with an interface and private stuff currently?
You really don't know how good and different it is until you actually use it. 😛
How much less of a headache it is.
fleet tangle
Explain the differences, other than not needing an interface?
proud jay
No, in those edge cases... you just use partial modules.
avoid circular dependency is really not an edge ase
stray orbit
How much more organized it is.
fleet tangle
I admit, interfaces are annoying.
terse wasp
Wdym, or you don't know?
I do know. I also know it is something said by people about old C#. It's an outdated statement for C#.
fleet tangle
But you'd still use interfaces for non-singleton bullshit cases.
stray orbit
Not to mention... C++ modules compile like 30%+ faster than C++ w/ headers.
terse wasp
Which apparently, you didn't know.
cursive crypt
I do know. I also know it is something said by people about *old* C#. It's an ou...
We talked about the origins up there.
fringe sundial
not at all @stray orbit . Its really not so easy
fringe sundial
modules help when you have tons of code in headers
if you write cpp as you should, almost C style, they dont
but even then, for most projects they would compile faster
proud jay
headers should be minimal tbh
fringe sundial
the most important thing here is modular STL
because the cpp STL is a fucking huge performance hog
fleet tangle
modules help when you have tons of code in headers
You mean like 90% of the code plugins on the marketplace? 😂
fringe sundial
takes forever to compile
stray orbit
I avoid STL. 😅
fringe sundial
so in the modular STL there is right now a fully proven "compiles super fast" thing
but again, MSVC only
and not only that, but its an all or nothing thing
if you use the modular stl anywherein your project, you cant have stl includes anywhere in your project
cursive crypt
It is a serious feature, it takes time.
proud jay
I still wouldn't write new applications in c++ though lol
fringe sundial
modular stl and header stl conflict with eachother
stray orbit
Ye... you can include headers in a module. I have to do it for some legacy things, like Winsock.
fringe sundial
explodes super quickly
soft night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSfRRBNPfFs&ab_channel=Duke%26Jones
see that guy dont know what is circular economy
stray orbit
I still wouldn't write new applications in c++ though lol
GET OFF MAH LAWN. 🤣
stray orbit
if you use the modular stl anywherein your project, you cant have stl includes a...
Yeah, I tend to avoid standard libraries; so I wouldn't experience that clash.
cursive crypt
Yeah, I tend to avoid standard libraries; so I wouldn't experience that clash.
Why? There are some useful tools there w/o link time dependencies.
fleet tangle
https://tenor.com/view/wanna-code-code-headphones-baby-gif-25903730
Your average python/verse coder?! 😄
stray orbit
Why? There are some useful tools there w/o link time dependencies.
I am old and like to reinvent wheels, poke it with a stick, and make it go round.
fleet tangle
I am old and like to reinvent wheels, poke it with a stick, and make it go round...
Snap
soft night
XAML YAML UML C# Q# WASM ASM
cursive crypt
I am old and like to reinvent wheels, poke it with a stick, and make it go round...
I'm old too, but do appreciate them tools.
In any case, I do understand the desire to invent 👍
stray orbit
I mean... I wrote my own websocket frame encoder/decoder at one point... that's how painful I like to get. 🤣
terse wasp
#lounge message @broken sigil Modern Verse. Found here: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/fortnite--uefn
Syntax looks perfectly acceptable
cursive crypt
I mean... I wrote my own websocket frame encoder/decoder at one point... that's ...
Everyone should have at least once implemented a sort or game engine 😤
stray orbit
I should just learn Go or something.
stray orbit
Everyone should have at least once implemented a sort or game engine 😤
I did... in the 80s and 90s. 🤣 Does that count? Hell... back in them early days, you even had to write a text engine in assembly to get things on the screen faster than 1 fps.
cursive crypt
Well, my first engine was in the 90s, late to the party.
fleet tangle
Bit of a difference between a sort algorithm and a game engine.
cursive crypt
Hu... white sonic 🤔
stray orbit
I think THE most painful engine I ever wrote was before I had access to a compiler... wrote a game engine in BASIC. Including a sprite editor... which would spit out BASIC code I had to paste into the game engine.
soft night
cursive crypt
lol, my first was on Basic. Tho my sprites were just ascii symbols 😛
broken sigil
https://discord.com/channels/187217643009212416/221796616653373441/1085911825343...
I absolutely hate that, wtf 
stray orbit
I was a determined child, lol.
broken sigil
I absolutely hate that, wtf <:cry:983849806378188812>
Why...
Also python style indentations
Well I know what I won't be touching once
terse wasp
Yeah - you're still stuck in the ancient days
sweet rose
terse wasp
No - GDC is next week
broken sigil
Yeah - you're still stuck in the ancient days
I hate literally everything about it 🥲
soft night
GTC is better
terse wasp
BM just likes old archaic stuff.
fleet tangle
I hate literally everything about it 🥲
Me too, BM.
cursive crypt
Dang, what is not old.
terse wasp
I hate literally everything about it 🥲
Good good. Now when your company needs a Verse person, I'll be available 😈
cursive crypt
Tbh, I'm fine with indentation, I mean - Python 🐍
fleet tangle
Good good. Now when your company needs a Verse person, I'll be available 😈
It's good to be verse-atile.
terse wasp
It's good to be verse-atile.
I'm already accustomed to C family and Python family anyway. So it doesn't bother me, like at all.
I'm curious how the if: actually works though. Is it AND or is it OR 🤔
2 different ways to write it
I'd assume you can have multiple lines in the first if:
fleet tangle
It's all kinds of bad
cursive crypt
I think it is just a new line.
stray orbit
I have more languages under my belt than Duro has socks in his drawer... Verse will be just another language to me. As long as its not C#, I hate that language. 🤣
terse wasp
You don't know how many socks I have missy
stray orbit
I can guess!
fleet tangle
2 different ways to write it
It's super confusing when there's no then: after Agent.
cursive crypt
I have more languages under my belt than Duro has socks in his drawer... Verse w...
Aww, my man, screw C#
terse wasp
It's super confusing when there's no `then:` after Agent.
Yeah. But maybe that is possible like not having to have {} for one line if statements in C-family
stray orbit
C# the "why do I need to type so much to do something so goddamns simple" language.
fleet tangle
Yeah. But maybe that is possible like not having to have {} for one line `if` st...
But you still have the ; on that 1 line!
terse wasp
C# the "why do I need to type so much to do something so goddamns simple" langua...
Says the C++ user
cursive crypt
But you still have the ; on that 1 line!
Where do you even saw ; ?
fleet tangle
To me that line looks like it's assigning Agent, testing if it's valid and then executing Agent.
stray orbit
Says the C++ user
At least on my worst day I can main() { cout << "Hello world"; } 😛
terse wasp
Hardly a useful application
cursive crypt
It ups the vibe in the morning
terse wasp
I have some head scratchers, yes; but overall, I'm not totally against it based on syntax alone
stray orbit
C# is the destroyer of all that is sensible!
cursive crypt
Sure
stray orbit
https://tenor.com/bx286.gif
Because I have to put up with you every day? 😛
proud jay
At least on my worst day I can main() { cout << "Hello world"; } 😛
in c# you can just do
System.Console.WriteLine("Hello World");
that's just a valid program
stray orbit
And... what doyou have to wrap around that? 😛
proud jay
nothing
fleet tangle
A ribbon.
cursive crypt
Windows
terse wasp
Main...just like in C++?
proud jay
since .net 6 you can have top level statements
stray orbit
Procedural options or bust!
cursive crypt
Templates!
stray orbit
NU!
cursive crypt
Yessshhhh!
stray orbit
NO!
proud jay
And... what doyou have to wrap around that? 😛
sorry from now on your opinion is invalid
cursive crypt
MoAR
stray orbit
proud jay
C# the "why do I need to type so much to do something so goddamns simple" langua...
I have a feeling you don't really know how to write c#
cursive crypt
Why care
stray orbit
I have a feeling you don't really know how to write c#
I haven't touched C# since it drove me mad.
proud jay
Too accurate. 😄
also not true, .net is now cross platform completely
there used to be a split between .net and .net core
but it is now one
stray orbit
Ah, so you have to drag a whole net with it. But of course. 😄
stray orbit
Compiler.
proud jay
just admit that the only reason you write c++ is because you're old
cursive crypt
No, it is a person with a sense.
stray orbit
just admit that the only reason you write c++ is because you're old
If you take Duro's side, I will bite you. 😛
terse wasp
proud jay
what is Duro's side
cursive crypt
c# is for bored youngsters
stray orbit
Duro is laughing in my ears because of you. 😦
proud jay
well maybe don't try to claim c++ is a good choice for a fresh modern program then
cursive crypt
But it is 🤔
proud jay
if you wanna go low, at least then use Rust or something
stray orbit
well maybe don't try to claim c++ is a good choice for a fresh modern program th...
Can you copy and paste where I made that claim? 😛
cursive crypt
lol
stray orbit
if you wanna go low, at least then use Rust or something
Eww, I hate babysitting languages.
proud jay
GET OFF MAH LAWN. 🤣
this kinda implies it
cursive crypt
I wouldn't say they are even so good. I mean, nice thing yeah, pretty much in development, but talk to me in 20 years. They will be a bloat as any other old lang.
stray orbit
this kinda implies it
That didn't say anything about C++ being for modern applications.!
stray orbit
I wouldn't... cuz, if I was going to be writing actual applications-- I'd be using object pascal. 😉
proud jay
you really should consider retirement
stray orbit
Still one of the top languages. 🤷♀️
broken sigil
well maybe don't try to claim c++ is a good choice for a fresh modern program th...
But... Modern C++ is tho
Wouldn't use Rust for anything serious, that thing is a pain in the as* to do anything with
stray orbit
And it's been long modernized.
proud jay
But... Modern C++ is tho
Wouldn't use Rust for anything serious, that thing is a...
I think it's mostly a different mindset and way of working tbh
not claiming Rust is the shit
I'm not that big a fan of it myself either
fleet tangle
Am I the only one that actually likes c++?
Instead of just using it because it has to be?
stray orbit
Am I the only one that actually likes c++?
I like C++. 😄
proud jay
I still like c++
stray orbit
I don't like C++ for games.
broken sigil
Am I the only one that actually likes c++?
I like it, modern C++, like 17 and above
proud jay
I would just not start a large scale application in it probably
cursive crypt
But... Modern C++ is tho
Wouldn't use Rust for anything serious, that thing is a...
I think they imply c# or whatever is the todays hype. Tbh, I kinda get the point of C#, RuST tho...lol
fleet tangle
Yeah.
terse wasp
Am I the only one that actually likes c++?
No. BM likes it too. But I believe that's because they're just a masochist.
proud jay
you guys don't write Carbon exclusively?
stray orbit
But ye... C# for a desktop business app tho? No thanks... I'd use Lazarus IDE and object pascal. Why? Because it compiles down to tiny little application, takes a tiny footprint, and works well on a lot of older machines-- like businesses often have.
fleet tangle
Do you have 10 years of Carbon experience, Dieter!?
proud jay
and more!
broken sigil
C++20 is actually very nice, recently started using it seriously on a non ue project
cursive crypt
ofc, he carbon based life form
terse wasp
But ye... C# for a desktop business app tho? No thanks... I'd use Lazarus IDE an...
You goofball - C# works fine on older machines.
cursive crypt
if you have the .net
zinc matrix
i do bare metal programming in node js
cursive crypt
fortran btw
proud jay
you have to apply to get the .net, there is only one .net to go around for everyone
stray orbit
You goofball - C# works fine on older machines.
Until you enouncter a business running a 2000s era IBM. 😛
Still on Win95. 😛
terse wasp
Until you enouncter a business running a 2000s era IBM. 😛
...you know Dazz works on those types of programs right?
stray orbit
Or worse... ME.
terse wasp
You're on Win11
proud jay
so you're just confirming that c++ is only the logical choice for legacy
terse wasp
stray orbit
Yes... I'M on Win11.
fleet tangle
May Tim have mercy on your soul.
stray orbit
The last business I wrote software was certainly wasn't... and still isn't, last time I looked. 🤣
And I can target object pascal for their machine. 😛 And it can even run on 90s computers.
terse wasp
Lilly...the last business software you wrote was before Trudeau took office.
stray orbit
You are correct... and they are STILL running my software, lol.
fleet tangle
Tru-dat
terse wasp
And people are still running business apps written in WinForms
What are you gettin' at
stray orbit
You work in the big boys business... you start hitting up small business, you will still encounter Windows 3.0 machines... and DOS machines. 🤣
cursive crypt
Old linuxes ...
terse wasp
sigh - The hallmark of old people. Justifying their archaic decisions.
fleet tangle
Apparently the global airline booking/schedule system still runs on some antequated commandline based system.
Because it works.
cursive crypt
Don't touch it
stray orbit
"Because it works" is what a lot of things run on still.
fleet tangle
Yup
cursive crypt
Definitely don't port to C# or Rust or whatever "modern"
stray orbit
It's why Delphi can justify their $5000 pricetag.... and still have some of the highest paid developers in the programming industry.
broken sigil
*sigh* - The hallmark of old people. Justifying their archaic decisions.
I like c++ and I don't think I'm old 😅
cursive crypt
It's why Delphi can justify their $5000 pricetag.... and still have some of the ...
These guys are like dinosaurs
terse wasp
You're young, but with an old soul
broken sigil
Fair 
cursive crypt
I like c++ and I don't think I'm old 😅
It is just an average flame war.
terse wasp
Lilly on the other hand....
stray orbit
These guys are like dinosaurs
Yet, still update their software to modern standards. Personally, I don't use Delphi too... too expensive. Would love to though, that RAD studio is badass.
proud jay
c++ isn't bad in se, it's just not the best choice for most modern applications
terse wasp
She was there for the Titanic's maidan voyage.
cursive crypt
Yet, still update their software to modern standards. Personally, I don't use De...
Country's distributor of Delphi was my pop's gf at some point. I was getting a ton of Delphi products for free. Stayed clean tho.
stray orbit
But I mean... Lazarus is a decent alternative to Delphi. Works well.
Just doesn't have all that neat web stuff.
fleet tangle
Yet, still update their software to modern standards. Personally, I don't use De...
You could say... it's pretty rad.
proud jay
yeah cause you also get cancer from it, just like from radiation
fleet tangle
That's radical thinking, man.
proud jay
idk I don't do object pascal, I wasn't alive for WW1
stray orbit
idk I don't do object pascal, I wasn't alive for WW1
Better wrinkles than diapers. 😛
ancient ingot
😮 oooooo
fleet tangle
I dunno, you wear diapers again eventually.
ancient ingot
🐍
stray orbit
I dunno, you wear diapers again eventually.
I'll be dead before then. 😄
cursive crypt
Old stuff comes back being modern, cycles of life.
fleet tangle
Dinosaurs -> oil.
ancient ingot
haha
stray orbit
Just so ya know... 😛 C++ is growing at a MUCH wider gap than C#. So, get with the times, babe. 😛
proud jay
ah yes, the all-telling very true TIOBE index
ancient ingot
babe? he aint no babe lol
proud jay
why aren't you writing C instead of c++
clearly better according to TIOBE
might as well rewrite unreal in python at this point
ancient ingot
oh fuck no
fleet tangle
What does it even base the popularity on?
proud jay
I think like job postings
stray orbit
Demand, mostly.
C++ used to be on the downtrend... but it's picked up steam since C++20 released.
proud jay
are you sure it's not because all other c++ developers just died of old age?
stray orbit
are you sure it's not because all other c++ developers just died of old age?
Are you Duro's alt?
fleet tangle
Before the c ones did?
proud jay
I say this as I use c++ in my job
stray orbit
What is it with all these D people? 😛
There are so many languages on this list I want to forget exist.
Like Assembly. 😄
still geyser
Is this confirmed that Verse is basically a rebranding of Skooma? Is this helpful for creative 2.0 to allow coding in game or in editor?
stray orbit
Skooma? Isn't that the drug in Skyrim?
still geyser
Verse Script vs Skooma Script yes
fleet tangle
I feel Verse will definitely become a drug.
stray orbit
Gimme dat Skooma.
fleet tangle
...something you want eradicated from society.
fleet tangle
Because Tim Sweeney had a dream.
stray orbit
Skooma? To drink the pain away.
fleet tangle
Pretty much, Nonlin.
still geyser
Hmmm ok
I mean Neos has a node base scripting language you think they would have done something like that as well
stray orbit
Everyone fighting for the Metaverse and callin' themselves Meta this and Meta that.
still geyser
but I think I'd prefer writing it out
stray orbit
Everyone trying to be the "next Second Life" and failin'.
Not even Second Life could be the next Second Life.
still geyser
It has to happen organically not forced.
fleet tangle
I mean if Second Life could do it, what, 20 years ago? You gotta be pretty bad to fail now.
stray orbit
Everyone who has tried failed. Even Second Life tried with Sansar... it failed too.
still geyser
Lots of second life folks moved to Neos
fleet tangle
Never even heard of sansar.
still geyser
But I haven't followed the trends so IDK how strong they are going
stray orbit
Yeah, cuz Sansar failed.
proud jay
I mean Neos has a node base scripting language you think they would have done so...
there's already blueprints
stray orbit
Sansar was Second Life, but newer engine, PBR, VR/Desktop.... free uploads/land, etc. All the things everyone could have wanted. C# as a scripting language... it bombed.
proud jay
also they were hiring for a new visual scripting language that would be compatible with verse
still geyser
@proud jay Yes but in Neos you can do it in game.
stray orbit
Meanwhile... for whatever gods knows what reason... Second Life is still ticking strong.
still geyser
IDK how Verse sits/fits along side C++/BP atm
fleet tangle
It's like a combination of the two.
still geyser
Tbh, c++ is less confusing than the verse syntax.
Isn't that every language that is different than the one you learn?
cursive crypt
Nobody really knows here. Mostly, a lang for modding Fortnite 🙂
fleet tangle
Isn't that every language that is different than the one you learn?
Not really. Verse is meant to be for everyne to use, but they've just taken c++, rearranged it and made it less clear.
See that talk about the Agent line!
I mean, I guess they've based on it skookum script or whatever, but the point still stands.
still geyser
still geyser
None of those lines are clear to me lol its all very blurry
terse wasp
Idk - I can read most of it and surmise what it is saying.
fleet tangle
Yeah, most of it is pretty self explanatory, but that particular bit of the syntax is shit.
zinc matrix
its obviously secret agent. we dont know!
still geyser
It applies 500 damage to the player when timer is up
still geyser
if it can find the player
terse wasp
Yeah, most of it is pretty self explanatory, but that particular bit of the synt...
Yeah, it is a bit of a head scratcher. But assuming you learn the language before trying to write it...maybe it'll make sense?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
terse wasp
wtf is that
It's an "Agent". Says it right there.
zinc matrix
maybe..
timber viper
wtf does it do
terse wasp
It exists
timber viper
its not a function
cursive crypt
Agent
timber viper
i know it exists
cursive crypt
It is a call to gods
fleet tangle
I think it's assigning to agent and that first line is testing if agent is valid.
timber viper
what does it evaluate to
terse wasp
It just IS.
cursive crypt
Agent
timber viper
is to what
fleet tangle
It's missing a then:
still geyser
I think it is a void function
timber viper
does it allocate memory for agent
terse wasp
It just exists. You're overthinking this.
fleet tangle
I hope it's missing a then:
timber viper
why it needs to exist after that if statement
terse wasp
Because it IS
timber viper
this boiled down into existential crisis too fast
cursive crypt
I'm more annoyed of var MyName:float = wtf I need twice to say it is a variable.
fleet tangle
No no, the Agent part is the if statement.
still geyser
But that doesn't look like Skooma Script examples so I guess they are changing it?
fleet tangle
The bit in brackets is line some preassignment.
cursive crypt
No no, the `Agent` part _is_ the if statement.
No, is not? I think. The If ends before that.
fleet tangle
Or is it?
timber viper
we'll never know
cursive crypt
To be or not to be 🤔
timber viper
maybe its redacted
fleet tangle
In previous if statements, it's just if: and the following line is the actual conditional.
timber viper
or we are too dumb to understand Tim's mind
terse wasp
we'll never know
fleet tangle
So I'm assuming the bit in brackets is just scoped assignment
timber viper
https://discord.com/channels/187217643009212416/221796616653373441/1085919514476...
thanks you can give me my 🥈
fleet tangle
if (x* y = gety(); y)
proud jay
cool that they pick vscode as verse editor
cursive crypt
Ah, this kinda make sense. But wtf really
proud jay
knowing that people will not expect c++ to use the same tool
cursive crypt
VSCode sux
terse wasp
Literally my only two questions about what is happening in the snippet we've seen is surrounding if 😅
cursive crypt
Anyway...
terse wasp
Everything else is pretty clear to me
terse wasp
Actually, I take that back - there is that Agent.GetFortCharacter[] that I wonder what does. What is [] at the end for 🤔
cursive crypt
if (Agent = Optional<MaybeAgent>; Agent)
fleet tangle
Yeah.
fleet tangle
Seems they lack a combined scoped assignment conditional!
cursive crypt
It is kinda confusing lang, I dunno what were they thinking. Kids wants simple stuff. C like or whatever sounds good enough. Even Ecma script - like.
terse wasp
Here's to hoping some psycho out there finds a way to put this in UE mainline 😅
cursive crypt
a ======= b
cursive crypt
The parenthesis here are also amusing
terse wasp
Idk - I think it's more readable than what you may think with your old programmer brain
stray orbit
It looks fine to me... I just don't have context for what MaybeAgent? is.
proud jay
when will unreal get Scratch support?
zinc matrix
The parenthesis here are also amusing
some old c programmers do that by habit
stray orbit
That could be something defined elsewhere, outside this shot.
fleet tangle
A potential nullptr, lilly.
proud jay
c# also has ? as nullable
fleet tangle
TOptional just for kicks.
terse wasp
I'm curious what else can go into the <> for the function signature, other than just suspends 🤔
worldly sapphire
`a ======= b`
8========D
fleet tangle
override
stray orbit
All in all, this looks like a real easy language to pick up.
cursive crypt
I'm curious what *else* can go into the `<>` for the function signature, other t...
<override>
proud jay
time to write raytracer in verse
fleet tangle
I wonder if const is a thing.
proud jay
in the everchanging metaverse of fortnite, nothing is constant
timber viper
I'm curious what *else* can go into the `<>` for the function signature, other t...
afaik its for function attributes
should be similar to [] in c#
cursive crypt
Or [[ ]]
terse wasp
afaik its for function attributes
Perhaps.
timber viper
even raw C++ purists I've met dislike c++ attributes
timber viper
yeah saw a lot of criticism about "it could be way better"