latest-updates

[tropic void]

The limited points is a bit weird to me, won't that lead to unforseen consequences?

[untold sequoia]

well, if you tell me what they are, then they'll have been foreseen 👀

[tropic void]

Well what would happen if two countries fight over one territory too much? Wouldn't that lead to other parts of the country being free at the end of the peace deal?

[untold sequoia]

Unlikely, but possible - I don't necessarily dislike that outcome. There will be some things revealed in the future that clear some of that up though.

[tropic void]

The outcome doesn't sound terrible in some cases, but then again it could lead to a hiper aggressive country like Germany to survive ww2 and still have their own government which would be kind of weird. I'll still wait for more info on this, excited to know where this is taken

[astral trail]

To whoever it may concern:

Please let us have an on_capitulation_<tag> system for on_actions modding? The current system only allows us to do if, else_if statements which check for the winner and loser of the nation using ROOT and FROM (image 1)

While we know that this _<tag> system already exists, in the form of the on_daily_<tag> and on_monthly_<tag>, so why don't we have it for the capitulation syntax as well? (image 2)

I am not familiar with the forums and I do not have straight contacts to anyone in the main development team, so I post this here in hopes it may reach anyone involved.

Thanks.

• Scars

(Taking a look back, why do both the ROOT and FROM being checked use the same tag??? This is vanilla code heh.)

[subtle nimbus]

gutfeel is that its specifically for civil wars

[velvet oxide]

This would be really cool. However I feel the way war score is gained also needs to change

I think simply, war score is too black and white and could be calculated a bit more complexly so that it rewards the countries that had had the most involvement in the actual capitulation.

This stops the USSR getting 50% of the war score when all they've essentially done is take 5 million casualties but not actually taken any of Germany's VPs

[fringe badger]

Yeah, played a lot of wars where someone gets a butt ton of warscore just because someone somewhere ground their face off against a river fort.

[quartz bronze]

When china gets a ton of war score against Japan cuz like 5 million of them died

[velvet oxide]

I often get it where I'm the allies and we capitulate the axis whilst germany has ussr pushed back to the urals

buuuuut USSR still gets 50% score

and just take everything worth taking

It would just be cool to have a lot more fluid mechanics

maybe a few more scripted conditional peace deals would be nice?

being able to ask the USA to surrender after taking UK

[visual willow]

It would take a miracle for great working dynamic white peaces so yeah that would be very cool to see

[zenith lagoon]

What even does Italy have with northern scotland or border goring stuff

[solid gyro]

They lose Africa and Greece but they control Norway!!!

They’re useless

[zenith lagoon]

Oh yeah i've also seen italian norway

[spring remnant]

Anti-border gore?

[vale reef]

I just beg for mid-war peace deals if I'm honest. Let me sue for leave with Britain if I've secured the Mediterranean and Africa.

[solid gyro]

this; i once invaded the uk as belgium along with a fat part of france but got barely any war participation (it probably has something to do with german troops winning most of the battles, but there should be war participation for starting things like naval invasions

[solid gyro]

anyone have the beta access code for the new peace deals

[torpid granite]

It's still under development dude

Not yet fully-completed for betaing

[solid gyro]

cool

[subtle nimbus]

anyone have the beta access code for the new peace deals
it can be found here: https://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs

[mighty mauve]

the code didn't worked

[subtle nimbus]

It takes a couple of weeks

[wheat cargo]

or simply just go to #hearts-of-iron-news

[short needle]

pls dont make this a dlc

[quartz bronze]

It'll probably be a base game rework like how the new supply system is.

[quartz bronze]

Idk if they're gonna do a base tree rework like they did with the soviets and Polish.

[terse solstice]

Is it confirmed that this update/dlc will have new Italy focus tree?

[quartz bronze]

It's been confirmed that it'll be an Italy DLC

[terse solstice]

Finally

[supple kestrel]

its been confirmed for a while now ever since they released the roadmap

[untold sequoia]

technically I didn't promise it would be this dlc

[quartz bronze]

It would do pretty funny watching the Italy mains riot after Italy gets passed over again.

[lime flume]

It would be funny if they made it even worse

[fervent hamlet]

My guess is that this DLC is South/Central America (don't know what countries) with Italy/Ethiopia/??? being another DLC, similar to how we got Battle for the Bosphorus, Together for Victory, and Death or Dishonor

Almost included Waking the Tiger but that was also the Germany/Japan rework

[worn ibex]

imagine if the italy dlc was literally just adding a single naval focus and thats it

[solid gyro]

Italy has to spend 5 years getting rid of mafia debuffs

https://tenor.com/view/sopranos-tony-tony-soprano-gif-tony-soprano-tony-soprano-cigar-gif-23674236

eh Tone, why do we have a -10% stability modifier?

[flint marsh]

I thought Scandinavia was gonna be their next country pack DLC similar to DoD and BOTB?

[twin maple]

Will call it Northern Lights

[solid gyro]

@subtle nimbus hey is there gonna be 1.11.11 patch? it was supposed to be every month but nothing yet

[subtle nimbus]

its usually the second Tuesday in a month

which is next week

but also check the forums 😇

[earnest jolt]

Please don't ping folks not actively in the conversation 😅 (unless Archangel says otherwise)

[dusty island]

when Italy rework 😡

[versed vessel]

You can use meta_effects in the mean time.

[astral trail]

uhm... no?

that's not how on_actions work??

[versed vessel]

I did something like it to on_state_control_changed

[astral trail]

If you mean you use it to link to a scripted effect then no

it's unecessary

[versed vessel]

Yeah

No, it removes long if... else. chains.

[astral trail]

except for the fact that meta effects destroy performance

which is partly why I asked the implementation of this

[astral trail]

You have just combined the two worstly optimized thing in the game

[versed vessel]

Yes they are bad for performance but with on_actions it is fine.

[astral trail]

on_state_control_changed literally happens multiple times everytime a war happens

pairing that with a meta effect is a TERRIBLE idea

[versed vessel]

Yes it does happen multiple times a war however that's not as bad as you think.

[astral trail]

not to mention annexing

[versed vessel]

Ok but it becomes way better if you're using long if else chains.

[astral trail]

Testing with the profiler has actually shown that if else if statements are better than meta effects

[versed vessel]

I don't doubt that.

[astral trail]

even if it's 10k lines long

data doesn't lie

[astral trail]

Stealing that

[eager kiln]

Ikr way to long to overdue

[solid gyro]

a

[floral tide]

Literally it is a copy-paste from the mod, the Polish one. And not only bugged at that and uninspired, but also wacky in a bad way. Disgustingly so.

At this point and that Baltics things they did (why? why leave Finland and choose those guys????! in Soviet Expansion?!?!) I'd not be surprised if they started 100% alternate South American trees. I mean, NOTHING happened there in war time. Nothing at all. Nada, null. Same for a significant chunk of Asia tbh.

It's so Paradox style, instead of fixing their darn game or adding, dunno, duh, reworked Italy + Ethiopia, dunno.

[west grove]

why is this called chat called latest-dev-diary? when it is just a normal chat

[terse solstice]

Cause people can’t read

[zenith scaffold]

I mean its a niche that some people like

but brazil did join the war

but what mod did the soviet tree copy? I'm curious now

[floral tide]

Polish tree

Its straight up copied (but worse) from a mixture of two polish ones on workshop (mostly one tbh)

With peasant strikes, divisions in unaligned, etc

I think mostly this

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2645224859

With Poland+ but it was over 2 years ago, something around it, seen even a detailed post on the forums

With a guy being inspired by them both and making a suggested political background of advisors, leaders and the like

[vestal scaffold]

Rip Germans

[lofty vector]

Please paradox never give Italy a focus tree

I want to drink the tears of people wanting it

[velvet oxide]

Hehehe u evil

[rose shard]

Give Ethiopia a focus tree before Italy

[solid gyro]

your pure evil

[glossy ginkgo]

When the default generic focus tree is stronger in stuff than Italy's

[quartz bronze]

Italy's tree isn't that bad. But it's still pretty bad for a major

[glossy ginkgo]

...

[solid gyro]

he's not wrong

[velvet oxide]

no i think he is wrong 😭

[glad cobalt]

I do wish they make the Yalta conference more of a scripted peace deal the player can refuse if they so wish

[visual willow]

You can refuse it though, atleast as the soviets

[glad cobalt]

Read that again

[wooden talon]

no it's just bad

when even generic nations, let alone minors have better focus trees than a major, it does suck

poor case of powercreep

[vestal scaffold]

generic has 7% conscription

What does Italy have?

[solid gyro]

minecraftsteve200123

[quartz bronze]

10 factories plus dockyards. I agree that it's bad for a majpr but I feel like people overexaggerate how bad it is. I mean generic focus trees give like 8 factories total I think. Italy gets more factories, dockyards, 2 refineries and oil. It's not good but not completely useless like some people seem to think.

[solid gyro]

+10 stability and war support

also annex Alban

very op focus

[lofty vector]

This tbh

I like to see two germany's

Not ducking pomerania and kashubia with west germany in Germany proper and east germany in austria

[velvet oxide]

I think when people say its bad they mean that its just boring

[glad cobalt]

and a third germany in ostpreussen and bavaria that then disappears in a week

[solid gyro]

I don't know if I'm just being stupid but how to I make my graphics look like this?

Because mine look like this

[slate latch]

It kind of looks like the top one has the day and night cycle on

[mighty mauve]

hi

[mighty mauve]

bye

[solid gyro]

at 5 speed doesnt it automatically disable it? Or is that a setting?

[quartz bronze]

It's a setting. It'll still run the cycle in 5 speed and turn your PC into a toaster.

[solid gyro]

noted. Boutta toast my waffles

[rain citrus]

guys what is the beta code for the new peace conferences

NVM!

[tepid jay]

I think that would cause some problems

Especially if it’s the ai

[glad cobalt]

how so?

[tepid jay]

Because if I were playing another nation, let’s say France or any other nation that participated in ww2, I would get as much as possible with my war score. If I participated in fighting against Germany, I would still want a chunk of Germany

Like imagine doing all that work but then end up not getting anything because the ai said yes to yalta conference

I guess it’s good for historical accuracy but imo it should be like an option in the game rules

[glad cobalt]

okay I can see that

Could be a game setting? 'historical Yalta peace' or something

[tepid jay]

yeah that would be good

[glad cobalt]

like, if I turn on historical AI, surely that should be reflected, no?

but then again, I'll take anything over the status quo

[tepid jay]

makes sense

I would even prefer it if they reworked the whole peace treaty thing

Rather than annexing a country from one war, it should be like you take a chunk of a country every war

[glad cobalt]

I'd love that

[tepid jay]

Or how much you take can be determined by your ideology

[velvet oxide]

I want conditional peace conferences

I hate it when some random country in europe joins the east asian faction

meaning ur run is dead cos you have no way of defeating japan

like if a nation has capitulated and the major of that faction doesn't boarder you, that should be able to let you offer a conditional peace

[quartz bronze]

Facts

[quartz bronze]

Maybe something like if neither country has touched the other after a certain amount of time then they should be able to ask for a white peace.

[astral flax]

yeah bulgaria joining GEACPS after germany is dead is just

massive pain

[stoic mist]

The thing about the generic trees is that the generic actually gives a 2 year ahead of time bonus for destroyers. That thing is seriously nuts. But yeah, a lot of Italy's tree is stronger. Hot take: Italy just needs a few more focuses. Get a few where you unlock new designers, admirals, and navy national spirits (plus a bonus to either refits or new ship designs), and then a branch that focuses on combat in different environments or increases the rate at which your generals level up. Then, add something where you can let Il Duce retire after you beat Great Britain, to bring in one of your accomplished generals and get some country bonuses. Boom. Good focus tree. Obviously, this would need to be several years' worth of focuses to avoid breaking the early game, but that's just a good bit of content to make Italy an engaging experience.

[solid gyro]

i agree however its still pain in the back

[grave hollow]

same

I want to be able to occupy one state and then peace out and keep that state

instead of having to capitulate the entire country

or, indeed, say if you as Germany are at war with the Allies + USA, that you can peace out with the USA after yeeting the allies out of Europe and Africa

and the likelyness of that happening being determined by warsupport or stability or something

say, with <50% war support, USA can accept such a peace or will lose stability for continuing the war

[vestal scaffold]

If it does place a severe national spirit to limit you from causing further war with the USA and American continent or the opposite, I suppose that should be possible

Remember that it was an era of total war,

Why should they believe you wouldn't cause further aggression?

and in such peace deal, Germany should not be allowed to hold any single American continent territories

Because that was the only peace that would have made sense

I suggest that best possible event for this would be a decision that can be activated when no member of a democratic faction holds any African or European territories and the USA has low war support + maybe no Roosevelt in power

Upon decision activation it fires an event that asks the USA for peace

If the USA accepts, there should be a pact between the two factions so no further war would continue between Germany or the USA for a long period of time

American nations at war with Germany should receive white peace, american territories controlled by the Axis need to be given to America nations, with every other American nations also get an invitation event to join USA faction, rejection leads to war and Germany should have -2000 strategic reason not to allow those nations into their faction so the US can consolidate its safety in America in return for peace for Germany

And various other limits should be imposed to avoid players exploiting it by disbanding the Axis to join GEACS so they can get at the US

Other peaces would have made no sense in an era of total war where a single moment of yielding to you, Germany player, would just lead to you declaring war on them later

Remember that this was the very reason why the Allies said no when Hitler wanted Danzig. The annexation of Czech republic had proven plenty

If Germany can't accept such peace then I guess the war continues and you need to cross the Atlantic which is honestly fairly easy

[solid gyro]

I had an idea for a potential new feature. I often play minor nations, which is fun, until your neighbours join the allies. Without a navy or a competent Major-ally it’s impossible to end these wars. (AI generally doesn’t even try to gain supremacy in the English channel).

Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to lend or lease certain ships or navies so that minor nations have a chance at naval action (since building a navy in 1943 from nothing is basically useless due to the time it takes to create one). It would even serve well in an Italian DLC.

[shell basin]

the top one is from a older version

u can use mods to make the game look better than that

[pale echo]

all I ask for is eu4 style peace deals

[frosty swan]

anyone wanna play millenium dawn dm me if yes

[solid gyro]

Get a peace thingy

offer peace

[wicked compass]

new peace deal is super exciting, hoping that AI pretty much just sticks to what they occupy, since that's kinda how WWII went down anyways

[worn ibex]

i wonder, will defense matter in a peace deal now?
like holding as benelux against the germans, will that now equate to more war score?

[tepid jay]

i mean probably

i would like it if there could be an option where you get their factories as reparation

or a buff

[vestal scaffold]

This I believe make sense

Or we can have sorta separate scoring

Occupation scores can be used to bid for land

Some combat scores can get reparations

Since well defending is easy

Defending shouldnt give good score unless AI knows not to just attack and die

[grave hollow]

omg reperations would be nice

with like consumer goods bonus or straight up industry

[honest meteor]

Is there a DD today?

[tepid jay]

so?

Casualties in this game also give you a big warscore regardless if you did anything or not

id rather get warscore from defending than get warscore losing so much manpower

[vestal scaffold]

it is just another exploit we can easily abuse as defenders

that isn't an improvement towards realism either, you are just adding a convenient flaw to balance out existing flaw

until AI gets better at making decision on whether or not to continue charging a dug in front, giving players warscore for defending isn't making anything better, but certainly more convenient. We have enough cheesecakes already.

well, just separate war score type then

combat scores get reparation, such as off-map factories for certain times or consumer good factor bonuses, or be more crazy and demand foreign guest workers

occupation bids for land

if you keep charging and lose 6M without taking much land then I guess no bidding for land as well

[fringe badger]

No DD today, we will have one next week though

[solid gyro]

Maybe there should be an option to take a provience or a states resources (like factories and raw resources) and maybe also something with research after you defeat them any tech that you don't have that they do you get a research bonus.

[kind snow]

feels like light tanks should've branched to the last medium tank instead of now being its own branch, makes them that little bit more useless since you cant spec into them as starters and quickly get what was modern tanks since if you spec into them you would have to completely research another tank tree

[red escarp]

hola, saludos desde españa XD

[plain elm]

SERVER IS BEING RAIDED, WE ARE TAKING CARE OF IT. DO NOT OPEN TICKETS

[tame turret]

There are many anti-raid bots

[worthy shard]

why are there no division

[zenith scaffold]

do you have landing crafts researched?

[forest junco]

You have no marines

[lofty vector]

you can naval invade without marines

he just doesn't have landing craft

[ember hamlet]

new dev diary when

[prisma wing]

Wednesday

[zenith lagoon]

laughs in Roach Destroyers, submarines and naval bombers

[zenith lagoon]

But like seriously though, naval bombers are easy to get and can wreck the most of the fleet, plus some roach destroyers or now my favorite, minelayer roach destroyers (minelayers are so stupidly underused and understimated)

[zenith lagoon]

But that didn't happen historically. France fell, and germany expects the UK to either capitulate or peace out. They didn't, so why would they, or anything else do so in the game? It could be something similar dependent on war support, as UK was very much not intent on surrendering due to war support being surprisingly high.

[quartz bronze]

If only ai was competent enough to refit and put AA on ships. Navy is kind of a joke in SP.

[zenith lagoon]

Yep

I mean genuinely, the only real threats to your navy in SP are sheer quantities of fleets from majors or canals

And even then, say Gibraltar you can bypass with subs

Subs is enough to get naval invasions in most cases

So voila

Also, minelayers are SOOOOO underrated

If you place 1000 mines, it doubles your naval superiority

Because 1000 mines is X (your naval superiority) + 100%.
Add 100% air supremacy and you have X +100% +100%

It stacks too well

Now air is tricky

But those mines are super easy

And if you have about 50 or so you can get that done in a few days

And even better, sub minelayers

Really hard to spot but can lay mines

You get the idea

[quartz bronze]

I don't think mines are overrated. People usually ban them partly because they're strong and partly because they lag the game.

[zenith lagoon]

Wait they're laggy?

[quartz bronze]

They lag mp games like crazy

[zenith lagoon]

I never noticed, mainly because the one time I used them I only used them in one place with a small fleet supported by the usual destroyer and sub spam

I was rarely naval invading in more than one place, and eventually had SOOOO many minelayer destroyers I just used them like conventional destroyers so never experienced lag from em

I thought I found a strong niche that few used

Guess not

[quartz bronze]

Yeah but imagine 2000 mines in total from both sides on multiple sea tiles. It adds up very fast.

[zenith lagoon]

It's just a thing I don't hear people talk about, contrary to say CAS and such

[zenith lagoon]

true

Anyone know why they're laggy?

Like I know why late-game gets laggy, the more countries and more divisions there are, the more AI does checks and the worse it gets, and quickly

(Which is why puppet spamming is so lag intensive)

[quartz bronze]

It's just a lot more stuff to process

[zenith lagoon]

fair

[quartz bronze]

That's cuz like 75% of people don't know navy.

And why do mines when some naval or tac bombers destroys the ai anyway

[solid gyro]

that was fixed several patches ago

[quartz bronze]

I never knew that it was finally fixed. That's dope.

[solid gyro]

It was fixed early 2021 afaik

[quartz bronze]

Ig it's just one of those things people keep banning cuz they didn't know it was fixed. Either that or they just didn't like them cuz they just make it so even less people will build a proper navy.

[zenith lagoon]

Legit?

damn

[zenith lagoon]

I'd prefer mines doing a passive damage to ships rather than doing a +100% naval supremacy AND damaging ships (I know they damage ships, I just dunno how it works)

Or reduce their effect on naval supremacy

[quartz bronze]

It's like a chance thing. And they don't usually sink ships unless the ship was already hurt. They usually just damage them.

[zenith lagoon]

fair

But that's already not bad in power

+100% naval supremacy is WAY too much

Like aerial superiority DOES matter that much, because it allows you to not worry about bombers and have less threats to your bombers

But mines would more act as either a passive DoT effect or a semi-barricade

[quartz bronze]

I mean naval supremacy isn't really that big of a deal

[zenith lagoon]

naval invasions

Like let's be honest

If there weren't islands or naval invasions, naval wouldn't exist in hoi4

Even then, although slightly trickier, paratroopers

[quartz bronze]

If you're that worried about getting naval supremacy then just build like 600 bath tubs and you're good to go.

[zenith lagoon]

true

But I do feel although MtG added some diversity, it still came down to a few things

I mean, I know of the 1 capital ship per 4 screens rule, but nobody ever uses it

I just see the 12 capital ships we got for free in 1936 and then 2000 screens/submarines

[upbeat quiver]

if I have over 1.2K hours do i deserve a role ?

[visual willow]

You already have the @member role

[quartz bronze]

#946076665409339463

[upbeat quiver]

brother a role of honor

[visual willow]

For what, possible just having the game on in the background??

[quartz bronze]

Hours mean nothing in a game.

[solid gyro]

Anyone else think the new peace deal system kinsa resembles EU4's?

[vestal scaffold]

time to do a frontal landing

It is time to put an end to European colonialism

it is African turn now

[solid ingot]

Mines are great if you are behind on your navy

[solid gyro]

So are 2000 naval bombers

[zenith lagoon]

Oh yeah, mines are my new favorite semi-meta

Stupidly underused but as mentioned earlier, +100% naval supremacy is LIT

[vestal scaffold]

Jeez there are so many different channels but only one main populated chat that only now I noticed I sent to the wrong addresses before

[solid gyro]

Is the Dev Diary supposed to drop today?

cause I heard from Benjamin Magnus it was?

[plain elm]

Yes! One is coming later today, Stay tuned in #hearts-of-iron-news for it! ^^

[solid gyro]

Thanks for info

[queen hatch]

I'm going to start spamming f5

[velvet oxide]

Ooooooooo

I hope with the air update I can assign planes to an entire army group and have it automatically split them between each air zone

[solid gyro]

I am disappointed with the new dev diary

It's a bit lacking for a two week wait

[quartz bronze]

I love the changes

Adding air groups so you can organize them like fleets and armies is very nice

[solid gyro]

Yeah I agree

[quartz bronze]

It seems like they've mostly kept the old system while also adding newer systems that seem like they should be good

[solid gyro]

I hope they fix the UI were you have multiple variations of one plane tho. Like you know how you have scroll all the way down to get to the thing you want after conquering a couple countries. Cuz they have their own air equipment. Yeah I hope they fix that as well as part of this

[solid gyro]

Lmao yeah I agree with the changes so far. Also the change were you can intercept planes that are passing an air zone to get to the other is nice too lol

Realistic uk

[visual willow]

i wonder how they will tackle the planes themselves, or keep them pretty much the same

[solid gyro]

I hope they keep em the same

[quartz bronze]

I imagine they'll probably add a plane designer in a future DLC same as they did with ships and tanks.

[solid gyro]

Oh no😂

[quartz bronze]

I would like a plane designer

[solid gyro]

Just watch planes become useless too. It’s just gonna be infantry spam

[sour blade]

A plane designer really wouldn't be that much fun

[solid gyro]

The meta

[solid gyro]

No it wouldn’t 😂

[sour blade]

Because air combat is much less detailed than land or even naval combat

[quartz bronze]

I love both the tank and ship designer. They changed the meta and made things more interesting imo

[sour blade]

So all you would be doing is challenging players to make numbers big then throw things into a stack

[solid gyro]

They made both tanks and navy useless bro specially tanks

[quartz bronze]

Right now it's just rush fighter 2 with max engine and that's really the air meta

[sour blade]

it make larping easier, but it didn't change the meta really

[solid gyro]

Rn the navy meta is destroyer spam… totally different than what the actual ww2 meta was( which was carriers and heavy ships)

[sour blade]

In MP there is already pretty much an established best tank design

[quartz bronze]

Tanks are still very useful. It's all about making a good and effective design.

[quartz bronze]

It's not destroyer spam. Light attack spam would wreck destroyer spam.

[sour blade]

There is 1/2 good effective designs though

armour stat is nearly useless

secondary turrets are meta

it's quite a pain

[solid gyro]

Yeah that’s true but the production and resources for it has made it not that worth while anymore. You can basically spam cas and that’s tanks in the sky basically

[quartz bronze]

It's still better than when it was everyone spam the same heavy tank division

[sour blade]

It's not better it's just the same

People used to spam 1 HT template

now they spam 1 MT template

[solid gyro]

It’s both destroyer and light cruiser spam tbh

[quartz bronze]

If I know someone is gonna do that then I'll just run line AA and wreck all the CAS.

[solid gyro]

Agreed. Totally not how it was like in ww2😂

[quartz bronze]

I've also seen BC spam be effective in some historical games.

[sour blade]

well line AA isn't that good, but certainly support AA is fine

[solid gyro]

Hehehe you funny

[sour blade]

the balance between tanks and air isn't the issue

[quartz bronze]

Line AA is good if you know your opponent is gonna spam thousands of CAS

[sour blade]

you actually still want both

however

the issue is that tanks themselves

aren't any more interesting than before

[solid gyro]

Exactly that’s what I’m sayin

[sour blade]

there is still pretty much 1 or 2 best designs

[solid gyro]

By the time you Acc have good tanks the game has already been decided

[sour blade]

that are far better than the next best designs

[solid gyro]

So it’s kinda useless

[quartz bronze]

There's like 2 templates you can use which isn't a lot but the different designs people make makes it much more interesting imo

[sour blade]

You can have fine tanks before danzig germany

[solid gyro]

Like what?

[sour blade]

and while I haven't played vanilla hist mp

[solid gyro]

Yeah I mean countries other than germany and soviets

[quartz bronze]

13/8s and 9/6s for a cheaper template

[sour blade]

I know that getting this MT template is really easy and it gets good stats easily

30w vs 42w debate is also a thing I guess

[solid gyro]

Like by the time you make tanks as usa the game is already decided in a way. Tanks are just bonous

[sour blade]

maybe?

but USA also has the best tanks ingame

because of their TD designer

[solid gyro]

Yeah it still is

[quartz bronze]

I mean USA can start cranking out tanks in like 39

[sour blade]

anyway

if you remember from before

MT3s

were like 500 SA and 600 HA

and people still used MTs

even though HTs were dominant

but now

you can get a tank with 600 SA, 750 HA

no problem

so the stats aren't the issue

[solid gyro]

Yeah but a good usa player focuses on building air first then tanks. And by the time they have air and want to make some tanks the game is already decided where it is goin( like france holding germany of germany just obliterating the Allie’s and soviets

[solid gyro]

Yeah but then they have to make some sacrifices in air

[quartz bronze]

I thats mostly an issue of USA just being a late game nation in general.

[sour blade]

well that's definitely a possible outcome and maybe USA shouldn't make tanks themselves

[solid gyro]

Exactly and that’s USA. Imagine if you are playing a minor. Throw the I idea of making tanks out of the window😂😂

[sour blade]

but someone on the allies still wants tanks

[solid gyro]

Yeah lol

[sour blade]

I mean tanks are not that hard to make right now really

[solid gyro]

Yeah ik

[sour blade]

Like the hardest thing to rush

[solid gyro]

But the resources for it is kinda ridiculous

[sour blade]

is the HV3 cannon in AT3 tech

[solid gyro]

Yeah

[sour blade]

and that's fine if you just work on it all game

[quartz bronze]

That's where a cheap 30 width or even just 20 width tank division to pierce the enemy becomes useful

[sour blade]

20w is not very useful

you will get HP issues

30w works

because coordination stat makes bigger widths give less

well proportional to their org that is

[solid gyro]

Yeah but if the enemy has the economy( germany) they can make tanks that would be impervious to your cheap tanks

[quartz bronze]

High velocity cannon begs to differ

[vestal scaffold]

yanking out a lot of those is... well... not easy

[solid gyro]

Lmaoo

Cast armor and armor 17 begs the differ as well

[sour blade]

ehhh

armour spam is

[solid gyro]

Heehee

[quartz bronze]

Lmao. Then you'll have like 3 tanks max lol

[sour blade]

it's mostly pointless

[vestal scaffold]

wouldn't that kill speed and cost chromium?

[sour blade]

because if the enemy does TDs

[solid gyro]

That’s all you need sometimes😂 quality over quantity babee

[solid gyro]

Yeah speed doesn’t matter with tanks anymore

[sour blade]

they will just far surpass your armour with their piercing

[solid gyro]

If you want the armor

[vestal scaffold]

ah you just want that kind of tank

the wonder weapon

[solid gyro]

Hehehe

Heheheheeee

[vestal scaffold]

truly a German player

[sour blade]

It's mostly a waste to go that heavily into armour still

[quartz bronze]

The magic number is trying to just stay above 60 armor to avoid being pierced by medium guns. Getting mech is huge for staying above 60.

[sour blade]

I think even that is pointless

no one only uses medium guns

[solid gyro]

Agreed

[sour blade]

and if they are, you can beat them without armour bonus by having superior hard attack

in order to avoid being pierced by a typical tank template

[solid gyro]

At least the infantry won’t pierce you

[sour blade]

you need armour 100+

[solid gyro]

Hehehee

[sour blade]

which costs far too much to pay back

[solid gyro]

Yeah and that’s why

Tanks are useless

[sour blade]

I mean no

they aren't

because there is a good template that exists

[solid gyro]

They are annoying at least

[sour blade]

that has great stats

[vestal scaffold]

tanks are useless against each other unless you can sustain them

as per usual

[solid gyro]

Yeah that’s what I mean

[quartz bronze]

I would still love some kind of plane designer in a future DLC. I was hoping to see a designer when I first saw it say air rework. It can help spice up what's kind of a stale meta rn imo. It'll make it better than just spamming 0% reliability planes.

[vestal scaffold]

I would love to

[sour blade]

but

how would the meta change at all

[vestal scaffold]

200 strategic bombing stat with my medium bombers

[sour blade]

You would still

[solid gyro]

I agree with the meta tho. It’s kinda boring rn

[sour blade]

just want to max out whatever stat gives you best trading in the combat equation

[vestal scaffold]

I want larger bombers

[solid gyro]

If they make a air designer I hope they don’t break it like the way they did with tanks

[sour blade]

and put them into a huge stack

[quartz bronze]

That's exactly what I'd love to see. Super expensive strat bombers that are flying air fortresses would be fun.

[solid gyro]

Cuz I almost quit playing hoi4 because of the tank design. Cuz how annoying it was

[vestal scaffold]

as an advocate of strategic bombing and infantry tank, mp rules really hurt me so badly

[solid gyro]

Totally won’t be banned in mps

[sour blade]

Strat bombers are really hard to counter right now

[solid gyro]

Cuz they are broken😂 and makes the game unfun

[sour blade]

bombing railways is very effective

[solid gyro]

Just watch the guy add more and more rules cuz they are so many broken things you can do in mp

And example is logistic bombing

No way you can intercept em

[vestal scaffold]

it makes me sad because I am into this irl before in this game

[quartz bronze]

I've seen it happen multiple times to new servers and hosts lol.

[solid gyro]

The other is paratroopers

[solid gyro]

Maybe if you play with people taht like to rp and won’t exploit the shit out of the broken mechanics then yeah it will be fun. But unfortunately that’s really hard to come by

[vestal scaffold]

nah honestly banning those stuffs is legit

I gotta agree

[solid gyro]

Yeah I mean that’s evolution at it’s core uk😂. Their rules are EVOLVING

[quartz bronze]

I love that they finally made it so you can intercept enemy planes as they head to an air zone.

I always found it dumb that you couldn't.

[solid gyro]

Ikrr

That’s so cool Acc

Yeah that would make such good variety to it as well not to mention realistic

So does that mean we can just put intercept planes on the borders of our nation and wont have to worry about the inner parts of our nation?

Cuz uk. With the usa’s focus tree that give bonus to strat bombers and having a jet strat bomber. U can essentially reach Moscow from Washington and bomb it😂

[solid gyro]

No it will only have a small effect

The majority would still be in the zone that you are fighting in

[quartz bronze]

Yeah but I think you would leave it undefended for any bombers that make it through

[solid gyro]

Exactly

And that’s not a good idea

[quartz bronze]

It'll probably be whatever percentage doesn't get disrupted will be free to bomb if there's no fighters

[solid gyro]

Yeah just like irl

[quartz bronze]

It seems to make long range bombing more dangerous since you'll have to defend the tiles it crosses too

[solid gyro]

Lovely

[quartz bronze]

Strat bombers will probably be soft nerfed.

Is my guess

[solid gyro]

Yeah but not enough 😂

Being honest I kinda like strat bombers as they are rn. Cuz they were super op in real life as well.

So it would make sense that what ever country that’d does use it it’s gonna be the winner

Cough cough …. USA

[vestal scaffold]

it did get very costly later in the century though

[quartz bronze]

Maybe in a plane designer DLC we could make fighters that can counter strat bombers ya know

[vestal scaffold]

we need missiles or rockets

basic air to air autocannons are largely ineffective

large bombers can eat a lot of those and fly back home for a costly repair, but they aren't lost

for example, the large B52 bombers that spent their time in Vietnam War saw a participation rate of over 40% of the whole air fleet, but barely 3% was lost, although many others required repair

they can have holes everywhere and still fly home

fighters aren't really effective against them, partly because it takes just seconds for them to run out of ammunition, partly because their ammunition wasn't really effective anyway

I suppose bombers don't need repair in HoI4

do they?

🤔

[visual willow]

idk enough of planes so what kind of attachments can they even put on them?

[sour blade]

Well heavy fighters right now

[vestal scaffold]

fighters and air support bombers

[sour blade]

are decent at killing strats

but they die to normal fighters

so it still kinda sucks to use them

[vestal scaffold]

ye, low agility but high air attack

[visual willow]

i'm fairly certain they just straight up die

[sour blade]

planes don't have HP

it dies or lives

[vestal scaffold]

they should require repair

so we can cripple bomber fleets

[visual willow]

honestly, giving planes HP sounds a bit like hell

i'm alright with keeping that simple

[sour blade]

air defence already represents the survivability of a plane

[vestal scaffold]

but planes that go home will fly the day after

[visual willow]

manpower is but a number

[vestal scaffold]

spoken like a true communist it seems

clearly we don't like statistics

number is just number

they mean naught

[visual willow]

everyone is TRULY equal if they all fall down in a burning flying ball of metal

[solid gyro]

If we throw enough men at the bullets they'll run outta bullets!

[vestal scaffold]

This is actually true

If you can spare 50M men, you can actually win by causing so much attrition to enemy divisions

[strange trellis]

They are are adding caps to air wing size? Seems a little confusing to me.

[solid gyro]

RUSSIA 1941

[solid gyro]

Then they have to lower the production costs of fighters as a whole so you can Acc divide your production to these fighters without having your country being nerfed to oblivion by doing so

[strange trellis]

Would be nice if they did a designer so you actually make strat bomber hunters or mixed role fighters. makes more sense then what we have now. And should be fine with the IC changes like how the tanks are

[solid gyro]

Don’t you remember how expensive tanks were when the dlc just came out?

Nobody made tanks because of that

So I hope they lower the IC on planes if they are gonna make a Planck designer

[strange trellis]

I remember it was painful. But even if it was like that they still will change it with balancing and patches. But a air designer in someway shape or form is still needed. Current air tech just doesn't work anymore for how the game plays.

If they dont do that they need to fix State AA to protect better, protect against logic strikes and cas, or at least add penalties to enemy aircraft flying in those states.

AA in divisions should be doing more too.

[vestal scaffold]

Well divisional AAs are tasked with combating enemy low altitude air support

[strange trellis]

they could protect againt logi strikes which they dont

[vestal scaffold]

They should probably help, still, if the divisions are on tiles with railway

[solid gyro]

Maybe aa you can build on railroads?

[strange trellis]

well thats where the state AA should come into play

or

[vestal scaffold]

Railway bombing is probably low altitude as well, for accuracy and all

[strange trellis]

better yet

AA trains

make armored trains more useful

right now armored trains are IMMUNE to logi strikes

[vestal scaffold]

Oh nice idea

[strange trellis]

just make armored trains shoot down cass

[vestal scaffold]

Are they?

[strange trellis]

yes

they get 250 armor

they cannot be logi striked

trucks still can

[solid gyro]

Ehhh idk man. All I ask if they make an air designer please don’t make em broken ( as in unfun to play) like the tank design. Personally I Acc like the ship designer but the tank designer really is annoying ngl

[vestal scaffold]

Hmm

[vestal scaffold]

Tbh I find it pretty fun in sp for early game

or minor only mp

Just so everyone has to make weird and stupid tanks

Like Big Bob with 5 machine guns

[strange trellis]

Gives a small countries a chance to build tanks

Would give small countries to build an AF if they did a designer

[visual willow]

"just dont mess it up paradox"
yeah in that case hopefully they dont bother

[vestal scaffold]

I want infantry designer too

I will give my Japanese men longer legs

[solid gyro]

Broo why stop there

I want a support designer

Support equipment

Designer 😂

Bro no

I want a hoi4 designer

Gimme!!

Imma Max that cpu usage so instead of using mostly one core it would only use one transistor to play the game😎

[vestal scaffold]

Design yourself

The one designer dlc we all need

[solid gyro]

So no 29.99$ for pdx then?

But I wanna pay em im addicted to this game now😂

[quartz bronze]

Next we need a factory designer. Gotta design and build your own factories now too.

[vestal scaffold]

at this rate we need coop as default mode

Gotta appoint ministers

[quartz bronze]

Time for that political rework lol

[twilit trout]

Air might not be the worst?

[strange trellis]

Need a designer for fuel

Design our own fuel types

[solid gyro]

Bro we need a convoy designer

And train designer too

Population designer?😂 pog?

[quartz bronze]

You know I think adding eugenics to the game is a bit too far lol

[solid gyro]

Hehehe Soviet noises rising

[zenith lagoon]

nah

HOI5 the sky's the limit

But tbh, hoi4 is pretty good as is, and they're still improving it

[solid gyro]

Lmaoo hoi5 will have an space designer 😂

People be making Star destroyers

Death Star les goo

[zenith lagoon]

Actually

That would be cool

Like I would kill for HOI4 but in different settings

Mods do a fine job

But imagine if we got a proper star wars version and what not

[solid gyro]

Lmaoo

Pdx gonna get a exclusivity deal with Disney to make strat games for Star Wars

Now that would be pog

[zenith lagoon]

I mean (other than the fact that my laptop is having issues with it rn) Empire At War was already cool enough, and it's not even CLOSE to hoi4 level

idk if you know that agme

kinda old

But just RTS in general

[solid gyro]

Some could say… it would be paradox Hehehe

[zenith lagoon]

Very few modern star wars RTS of quality

[solid gyro]

Oh yeah I definitely know that game. That was kinda my childhood lol

Space ships go brrrrr

[solid gyro]

Yeah I ageee

Agree*

[strange trellis]

Listen if I cannot design my own fuels how can I get my coal fired experience

[quartz bronze]

Gotta get that high octane fuel baby

[strange trellis]

Coal powered tanks, Planes, cars, AND boats

return to coal

[quartz bronze]

Coal. -90% fuel consumption.-50% to attack and breakthrough.

[solid gyro]

Bro why coal. Just use wood😂

[solid gyro]

Wood: -100% production cost + 100% resource use

[strange trellis]

Listen the germans did it historically

STEAM POWERED TIGERS

[solid gyro]

no more op cas??

[solid gyro]

😂😂😂

Bro

How about Horse powered tigers?😂

That sounds so cursed😂

[strange trellis]

Horse drawn tigers

[solid gyro]

Nah lets just put a dam in the tank so that way it only works in moving water

[quartz bronze]

Time to recreate the warship

[solid gyro]

That killed me😂😂🤣

Nah we need an air ship designer

So we can creat this:

😂😂

You guys know the iconic pic of bombers flying over london right? I mean this one:

Now imagine this with this:

So beautiful!😍😂

XDDD

no imagine ships flying in the air and planes swimming in water-

Seaplane dlc?!?!?!!

No

Planesea dlc

Prolly with the italy update

Im thinking it will be a cold-war dlc

With their yearly plans it makes sense

Honestly there might have to be some opyimization for the cold war cuz at that point the game run rly slow for most

Yeah

They're gonna limit army sizes

Thery're adding post-war stuff

Ok good

Dont need my pc on fire again

A wise man once said "you know the game is graphic intensive if your pc is hotter then your girl"

Its not that hot, only 5th degree burns

XD

[solid gyro]

What if you don’t have a girl though…. Everything times zero is equal zero…. So that does that mean my pc can never get hot if I don’t have a gf?😂

[solid gyro]

Then replace gf with your virtual waifu

[solid gyro]

Shit then my pc Is gonna be as hot as the center of a neutron start lol

XD

[solid gyro]

Apply to microsoft or apple

You've hacked reality

Lmao yeah I’m the male variant of Wanda maximoff 😂

Changing reality to my will😌

XD

[marble gorge]

casually overclock to 200 ghz and cure cancer

[solid gyro]

But you still won’t have a girl tho

So what’s the point

[mortal thunder]

is there a way to opt into a open beta of new changes?

[fringe badger]

There are often open betas for patches upcoming available through steam. But that is normally for the smaller patches, not the big ones like whats been talked about in the last few DDs

[mortal thunder]

its free QA 🙂

[solid gyro]

You cure breast cancer, making you a hero to boobs, boom, infinite women

[solid gyro]

Well if we cure it we cant complete the stages!

[velvet oxide]

oh my goodness i cannot wait for the peace deal update

[strange trellis]

Lmaooo

Just wait until you see the axis beat Russia and make every state a puppet

[velvet oxide]

kashubia and silesia should really be removed from the game 😦

[strange trellis]

I mean they are nice to boost your factory count but other than that not much of use

[velvet oxide]

tbh I dont think the way peace deals work is bad, i just think it needs better logic

like

britain made a croatian puppet in ONLY istria

when yugoslavia is in their faction?

ussr puppets all of germany despite me (france) occupying all the land when germany capitulated

[calm nacelle]

Historical AI focus should make it that AI puppets countries realistically

That’s the main thing I want from this new update

[rich shadow]

Realisticly as in?

[calm nacelle]

99% of all allied peace deals don’t make sense when they start making puppets

For example, Poland should get Prussia when Germany capitulates to give Poland its modern territory, Yalta conference (west Germany being a supervised state of USA France and uk and east Germany being Soviet puppet), czecoslovakia is made into two separate countries, I can go on

[rich shadow]

Yeah, there is no eay for the actual ww2 peace deal to happen rn.

[calm nacelle]

Most of the time free France doesn’t even get back all of their land in my games

[rich shadow]

Maybe if Poland is a soviet puppet and prussia is owned by the cominter, they should get an event to "move Poland east"?

[rich shadow]

The vichy france war deckaration should be a civil war type, idk why they haven't fixed that.

[calm nacelle]

There’s two democratic Frances, a free one and Vichy France puppeted by an allied country and made democratic

[calm nacelle]

If the war is fairly close to historical in nature then the peace deal should have an option to be minorly scripted

Whilst still giving liberty to the player

Like in RT56 when you get a yalta conference prompt

[rich shadow]

I think that even kn non historical, there should be events and desicions for sone of the stuff that can't be done rn.

Like moving Poland to the west.

[calm nacelle]

Yeah

I think the only reason why they haven’t done it yet is due to air zones

It would be weird to have Poland be more westward after a peace conference yet the air zones are still the 1936 borders of Poland

[rich shadow]

Eh.
All of it would be soviet controled anyways.

[calm nacelle]

I mean not realistically since it wouldnt be part of the main Soviet Union but rather puppet states

Which if I remember correctly was historically the case for Poland, Czechia, and Yugoslavia

They weren’t a part of the USSR but members of the Warsaw Pact but had to acquiesce to any demands from the USSR

Although that’s starting to get into Cold War territory which is not what hearts of iron is based on

I want to mainly have options to have the AI to have scripted peace deals and also a nation being partially puppeted by several countries

As in like how west Germany was occupied by France us and uk

[rich shadow]

Is there a mod for that?

There should be

[solid gyro]

Absolutely amazing

[velvet oxide]

This is something I personally really want reworked

Me, has killed about 2/3rds of the commintern's casualties and make massive breakthroughs into germany

USA, has lost 6 million

we both joined the war at the same time

both have 1000/1000 bombing

similar number of ships sunk each

and yet they will get double my war score for literally DYING

[rich shadow]

But america has apple pie, so they get more war score.

[velvet oxide]

and as a disclaimer, USA had double my score before they naval landed crimea

sometimes i literally force my armies to take heavy losses just so i can get more war score

[grave hollow]

I agree

I hate that warscore depends on dying

it should depend on stuff like battles won, victory points taken, enemy casualties inflicted, etc

[analog coral]

Yeah, especially when as USA you invade japan but as you have 8k causalities and China millions, you can’t take a single province of japan.

[lofty vector]

czechoslovakia become two on 1st january 1993

also the player should be able to refuse the yalta conference

[glacial harbor]

Diplomacy screen is a thing

Just like to remind everybody about it

[velvet oxide]

im literally so angry!!!!! china joined the ALLIES so now JAPAN is getting all my war score!

[spiral owl]

I feel u buddy

Very stupid thing

[velvet oxide]

never playing hoi4 again

why are the british so ANNOYING

AFTER i manage to get naval supremacy in a random sea for like 1 second to do an invasion

4/5th of my navy dies trying to convoy escort on low engagement

[visual willow]

How tf did that even happen
Also, player led

[velvet oxide]

no achievements

its something i really hope they fix in the next update

war score

[visual willow]

Just don't make being bad increase warscore

[zenith scaffold]

I mean that’s just the ai being dumb and not combining their entire navy together

[solid gyro]

"I only need a few thousand dead so that I can sit at the peace conference as a man who has fought"-Mussolini

[solid gyro]

thing is,

i was the ussr in my game, i took hamburg, berlin, hessen, all the main german cities before the allies did (they were still struggling on the beaches by the time i got to berlin) and i had dealt massive casulties (7.1M by the time the war was over, the largest on the allies was 2.7M) and got like 32% war effort

[solid gyro]

Paradox: yeah lemme just copy and paste into a game mechanic

Omg sorry I didnt mean to ping you TwT

[solid gyro]

Strategic bombing, especially bombing of railways, gives way to much war contribution.

[little vault]

I suppose a suggestion would be calculate war score on a country/theater basis

Or have a mechanic to separate peace deals on a country to country basis

That would complement the contested territory mechanic the devs planned

Since instead of blowing all ur warscore on a state while everyone else conquers the world, this will be limited to one country only

Tho it would create a lot of new numbers, and the ui for participation will need to be heavily altered

[somber valley]

I hope playing as the leader of Balkan Pact will be rewarding. Unlike the current version.

[solid gyro]

should have just let the allies suffer on the beaches until 1992 constantly bombing german trains on the eastern front only to get like 65% war score

[solar yacht]

<@&846894118219022336>

[thin magnet]

Thank for ping

[solid gyro]

Your fine

[solid gyro]

I hope they add weighted people loss

Just played a Belgian game, lost 1 million soldiers, scraping the barrel no people, only got the Rhineland and Sardinia

Despite occupying all of Germany

[void trail]

It might make more sense, as this is a ww2 game to think about minor conflict peace deals instead of the main peace deal at the effective end of game. Finland, Ethiopia and China really are the only conflicts that could be worked on, and only China could receive some help.

Faction occupation should be made a bit more important, as it doesn’t make much sense for an iron curtain to be placed randomly and it to be scattered about. The Cold War borders more or less matched the line that the frontlines met.

[rain citrus]

canada is a great country. -a canadian

[glad oriole]

when will the air-rework come out

[lofty vector]

End of the year

Probably

[glad oriole]

Will there be focus trees

[lofty vector]

We don't know

The dev diaries have just started

[prisma wing]

💀

[jaunty willow]

Very

[solid gyro]

Very unlikely

NSB came out last winter it’ll be a year or two before new focus trees

At least from any major players like Italy

[limpid dirge]

does Paradox plan to have a democratic path Russia?

[solid gyro]

don't think so

[lofty vector]

No, don't think so

I mean dem russia won't be added for the same reason why commie germany wasnt added

[visual willow]

Wasnt it not added because of time constraints

[solid gyro]

What reason?

[solid gyro]

ee

[lofty vector]

it would lead to a power landslide to the comintern

since the allies are not that powerful even against normal nsdap germany

[lofty vector]

i don't remember having heard that

[smoky hinge]

IIRC when they were talking about democratic Russia they said they wanted to mostly focus on quality Russia communist routes then the white remnants routes

I remember the feedback from reddit was

[opal hatch]

Reddit moment

[smoky hinge]

Legit

Remembers the guy who made a scorecard for the dev diary when they announced the white remnants

[opal hatch]

White Remnants are pog - but truthfully you'll never make Reddit happy

[smoky hinge]

Never

[drowsy plank]

Have you ever actually played a non hist game of hoi, especially in MP? The allies are usually far more of a Challenge than the communists are, hell I've Both seen and played as democratic France that killed Germany in 1on1 fights

And last game I played I slaughtered the Soviet player and was about to cap him, but then France and the UK attacked last minute and absolutely destroyed me with a combination of overwhelming air force, numerous heavy tanks and quality infantry

[lofty vector]

bruh i am talking about sp

in mp, the allies are obviously more of a challenge

also mp is filled with basement dwellers so i don't play it

[drowsy plank]

... in sp no nation is a challenge except for if you play a tiny nation

like okay fighting the entire world is a challenge if you play say the benelux

but the AI is bad enough at micro managing its troops that you'll kill about 10 to 1 in sp with ease even before the AI starts running out of equipment

Hell I remember killing over 30 million Soviets as the Baltics while losing below a million

[lofty vector]

i agree

[hot bough]

If they dont completly revamp the russian air zones im going to cry

[solid gyro]

when Italy focus tree 🤬

[solid gyro]

about November 2069

[quartz bronze]

It'll come out along with hoi5

[sullen hearth]

hoi5

When the provinces-system is gone, and time finally belongs to seconds, not just hours

[quartz bronze]

Forget division designer. Now it's battalion designer.

[sullen hearth]

And every tree in forest prov... territory is count

[topaz sundial]

soldier designer

[drowsy plank]

They might add an infantry equipment designer at some point, though more in how air can have its stats upgraded, rather than a full on designer

[lofty vector]

wouldn't that pretty much copy rt56 infantry upgrade?

[static pecan]

Technically the rt team cant exactly sue paradox for that

[keen pagoda]

This reminds me of people who were crying about the poland focus tree looking like one of the mods I think paradox legit replied Oh sorry didnt know that the mod had exclusive rights to alternative history paths for poland

[lofty vector]

the poland focus tree from rt56 was worse than the paradox one i think because you had economic recession for most fo the game

[quartz bronze]

I mean rt56 copied that from paradox variant upgrades before designers and just gave it to everything.

[lofty vector]

i mean yeah

idk what to say anymore

[solid gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-bateman-christian-bale-american-psycho-funny-unfunny-gif-23662991

[balmy vault]

<@&846894118219022336> ban this

[solid gyro]

ban him NOW!!!!

[vestal linden]

Dude

[quartz bronze]

Bruh

[vestal linden]

Good job mods 👍

[earnest jolt]

Thanks 🙂

[vestal scaffold]

What was that

[ancient merlin]

This year actually it’s amazing

[solid gyro]

So 27 years after evenr in BF2042 happen which half europe already become frozen wasteland and italy focus tree still not exist at that time

[hoary needle]

Italy Does have a focus tree

Just not one that's up to standard.

[limpid dirge]

is there a plan to add a democratic path for USSR?

[visual willow]

if they wanted to update the tree they probably would have already

[limpid dirge]

I've heard they did not have the time

[visual willow]

yeah, and if they would have made a democratic tree by now they would have already added it

[bold harbor]

lets be real

democratic russia does not sound right

[visual willow]

and communist japan does

[deft glade]

if you want democratic russia

play the many russian mods

or rt56

[bold harbor]

fair

[signal nest]

There was a strong liberal movement in imperial Russia, and before the rise of communists pro-western democrats were the main opposition to the tsars

Democratic Russia is actually more believable than tsardom

[jade void]

its more believable than fascist Russia

[sullen hearth]

Halp! Halp!

[solid gyro]

Democratic russia hmmm

[glass oracle]

what is wrong

[whole shuttle]

that exists?

[solid gyro]

Idk mate

Last time russia was democracy its says "authoritarian democracy"

[whole shuttle]

brothar

[solid gyro]

Oh god what is that monstrosity?

[safe osprey]

nation randomizer

[solid gyro]

burn it

[unkempt sail]

my game broke

[safe osprey]

ok

[unkempt sail]

i tried to load a game i was playing and didnt turn on modern millenium and that haeppened

[glass oracle]

9/3

[zenith lagoon]

Aight so uh

Cool dev diary

But deathstacking would totally still be an issue won't it

[strange trellis]

Good nerfs to the navy, however with those nerfs, I didnt see snorkle listed, so im assuming its staying the same. Wonder how much its gonna affect the current meta of things. Also making the the shells apart of the tree like that seems to be not needed. Was fine being its own separated paths. and having the reduced research times Is nice but was more balanced with higher times but better to spend XP to speed them up.

[drowsy plank]

Eh to be fair deathstacking as everyone calls it was actually the historical strategy for major navies untill around WW1 for fighting major battles. Even shortly before and during early WW2 the Japanese navy believed it would be the most effective manner of fighting the US and British navies

So its not like it wasn't a viable real life strategy in naval battles, Just have more ships to lob Shells at the enemy in a concentrated group instead of dispersed small task forces that can be easily beaten in battle by that larger task force

[coral pine]

You'll never be able to outproduce The US and Uk for naval ships

[drowsy plank]

Eh depends on Both the level of competence, overconfidence and focus of those players

[coral pine]

True but against AI?

[drowsy plank]

Easy as shit

[coral pine]

It's The Royal Navy

[drowsy plank]

AI are like lambs led to the slaughter

Currently

The AI mainly builds the current ships in its dockyards then spams the cheapest design it has out. You can beat those at usually a 3 OR 4 to 1 numerical disadvantage

[coral pine]

It's The Royal Navy there's a reason why us Brits had an empire that was 3 quarters of the world

[drowsy plank]

Hell I've beaten the UK AI fleet after already having fought a pretty bad USA's fleet in battle shortly before as the French

As long as you don't fight them in 36 or 37 and invest a decent amount into navy as any of the other major Powers you can beat the AI UK and/or USA fleets in battle

The only real issue is finding them in fast enough succession to do things like naval invade before they've built another fleet

Because despite your fleet easily beating them in battle you'll usually not have as much naval Supremacy as them

The AI navy is only really a threat as a minor power

[zenith lagoon]

Overall i've heard of the 4:1 rule (4 screens per capital ship) but tbh, I REALLY hope they add a reason to stick to that

Right now, roach destroyers, subs and sheer numbers are a meta

And (idk how well it's known, i've barely used it but am also learning of it's strength) minelayers

Like the mines should give a hard buff of naval supremacy, not a percentage

+100% gets way too strong

Let them do better damage or so

[glass wave]

please, PLEASE, PLEASE sort out out naval aviation in battle. Carrier fighters are utterly useless and simply don't defend against both land based and carrier based air strikes. It gets even worse late game.

[zenith lagoon]

Yeah carriers need a buff

[frank depot]

Naval sucks ass

Thats why i use paratroopers

[zenith lagoon]

Well if you have your naval invasions ready and launching the moment you declare war (preferably by focus or a short justification, it won't work on long justifications) you can bypass any navy

Paratroopers are kinda weak is the issue

Main place you use them without using this naval invasion cheese is against japan

[frank depot]

I dont have man the guns so i only use the navy when im fighting minors not some naval superpower

Cuz with man the guns u can make some op ships i think

[zenith lagoon]

meh

It's really underutilised

It's mainly for the focus trees

Overall we just make the cheapest boat and spam em

[frank depot]

Or tubs

[zenith lagoon]

We have roach destroyers, bath tubs and naval bombers.
Those are your naval metas, take it or leave it

anyway imma head out

[livid pecan]

thank god the light attack meta is dead

i hope they come for the roach destroyers next by reworking ship production cost

[sudden marsh]

When they say medium and light cruisers can’t have mixed armaments, is this to address the heavy cruiser having tons of light attack to obliterate screen ships? I just learned of this meta recently on Reddit

[civic marten]

What the f''k?

[quartz bronze]

F in the chat for the Heavy Cruiser light attack spam meta

[unkempt sail]

I know

[quartz bronze]

Yes. Light attack spam is still there but it won't be as powerful since you won't get the increased hit chance that a heavy cruiser light attack spam gets rn.

I also like the changes they did to speed

[strange trellis]

speed changes are nice but there needs to be ways to improve production of ships

[quartz bronze]

What do you mean by improve production of ships?

[strange trellis]

As of right now the ability to actually produce quality or even historical ships are almost impossible due to either dock yard limits or there not being enough to do techs to improve production capacity. For example the mills get a production cap modifier, naval ships should get a production cap modifier as well. Making them more effective at producing the same ship, this would allow for higher quality ships being produced to fight against either the current meta or at least the spam meta.

[quartz bronze]

That's true. Considering the game is usually over withtin like 6 years and it can take a year or two to get all the up to date capital ship tech, then that'll leave you up to a 2 or 3 window to build heavier capital ships while still getting them out early enough to make a difference

[strange trellis]

Exactly my point. Unless they make it easier or more like ground production, there will be no reason to build capitals and no one will as you can still just spam out light ships.

[quartz bronze]

Even making a heavy attack CA costs like 7k to make

Heavy attack is just too expensive to compared to light attack and cheap torpedo spam

[strange trellis]

Heavy attack IC cost overall even on the cheap side is worthless, no point to heavy attack if you know everyone does torps and light attack. And we all know no one will do battleships as you will get out produced in every aspect to cheap light attack and torp spammers.

[sour blade]

armour rebalance could change things

numbers would need to be significantly tweaked

but if having armoured ships let them shrug off enough damage that could certainly help

already they are making armour give slight torpedo damage reductions though I wonder if it's enough

[quartz bronze]

I think it would certainly make BBs more viable with the new speed and armor changes

Rn BBs are worthless. BCs outclass them when historically a BB was supposed to be better with stronger guns and armor.

I hope the rework will make BBs and carriers better to better reflect their historical strength.

[strange trellis]

The problem is BBs cant get enough light attack to save them or help the screen light, if they only build lights and DDS, hard attack is worthless. BBs even with this re work, will not be worth it due to the factors of the way hard and light and worst of all IC cost. As long as it remains that it is impossible to build BBs due to resources and also limited dockyards on them they should not be built ever

[strange trellis]

If you can pump out 1 BB every two years if your lucky, you will be facing a fleet much more massive than yours. Its just basic numbers at that point. And even super battleships make the battleship question even worse.

[untold kelp]

WHY

[hot sparrow]

Torps would kill capitals whrn there is not enough screens regardless of armour cos you can't buff the armour too much till torps won't kill them as fast because historical accuracy

[zenith lagoon]

BBs are what exactly again?

[summer spear]

The problem of both, carriers and BBs is fact that they take a long time to produce

Way too long

[solid gyro]

Why people make the Heavy cruiser with light 1 turrets if heavy cruiser with dual purpouse guns are only 8% more production and has LOTS of AA and will not be targeted by upcoming changes.
This so called "exploit" is just people being meh

especially if you stack naval designer with Integrated designer navy spirit and free trade , you can get dual purpouse guns in March 1937 becaus that combo gets 577 days of reasearch down to 382 in 1936.

also , if you start with this as first cruiser , the refit to dual purpouse guns will be only 1140 production.

[quartz bronze]

It has a lot less total light attack that way.

[drowsy plank]

That might be meta, but its actually not the best way to fight a naval battle. Those roach fleets get their ass kicked easily by somebody actually investing in navy. Only in areas where you have air supremacy does that style of fleet work

[quartz bronze]

It also doesn't give as much HP as a light cruiser battery

[solid gyro]

16.5 vs 17.5 ?

[zenith lagoon]

laughs in roach destroyers, subs and naval bombers

Also minelayers

[drowsy plank]

Later light cruisers can get up to 70 light attack per ship

[zenith lagoon]

Those are the real gigachads imo

[drowsy plank]

yeah except I kick the ass of people playing with those fleets by fighting them in the central atlantic or any other sea zone without nearby airports

because a fleet with 200 total ships of which 50 or so are light cruisers against a 500 ship fleet of the build you suggest is 9 out of 10 times won by the 200 ship fleet

[zenith lagoon]

laughs in one carrier per spam fleet

Genuinely

Throw any problem at me, i'll find a solution

Also paradox, please buff carriers

[drowsy plank]

you do realise that your enemy will have carriers to counter those?

[solid gyro]

so , have carrriers to counter carriers who counter carriers 😄

[zenith lagoon]

Shi-

[drowsy plank]

by that point its no longer the fleet type he suggested

[zenith lagoon]

Ok but then we just don't fight in the central atlantic

Like no joke

If that's what you need to beat me, I don't go and cross the atlantic

Also like one naval invasion that is succesful, probably supported by subs. Get into the americas, yoink the panama canal, get the coast lines covered and boom, you can't reach the other side

[solid gyro]

well , i like to spam large amounts of well rounded cruisers . Either heavys like i posted , or Lights with Dual porpouse guns and torps.

[drowsy plank]

Here's the thing, goading somebody into becoming either angry or overconfident and then fighting me where I want is what I'm best at

[solid gyro]

so they have lgiht and AA both

[zenith lagoon]

I see it more as the type you'd see in Stellaris. Titans give buffs for the whole fleet, so you can make any type of fleet, but that main thing with thick buffs stays

[drowsy plank]

I usually win as Japan against USA navy wise so I feel my strategy works

[zenith lagoon]

Here's the thing, problem solving and self-control are some of the things i'm best at

[zenith lagoon]

Yeah well USA is kinda broke and economy.exe not responding until like 1942 or something

[solid gyro]

Also - Dual porpouse DD's are great in costal watter

[drowsy plank]

you call over 100 mills and 50 dockyards by late 39 economy broke?

[quartz bronze]

It's more than that because by the time you get secondary gun 3 tech you'll have light cruiser guns 3. You shouldn't be using 1922 cruiser guns in 1940.

There's also the extra hp to take into account

[solid gyro]

yes , and you have no AA

so , naval bombers are having a field day

[solid gyro]

true.

[drowsy plank]

yeah except cruisers ar the last ships targeted

besides destroyers

[quartz bronze]

There's an AA slot on the bottom and you can put AA dual purpose on the bottom too

[drowsy plank]

so if you make AA ships you need to refit old battlecruisers for it

as they're the ships attacked first by carrier aircraft

[quartz bronze]

Not to mention most navy countries have some kind of heavy ship that can be refitted with AA that'll be taking most of the bomber attacks anyway.

[solid gyro]

i dont bother with heavy ships ( exceptt cruisers ) because too much production cost , too slow repair times

[zenith lagoon]

So if I make one or two dedicated heavy AAs, can that cover an entire fleet?

[drowsy plank]

Yeah except they can target enemy cruisers without getting shot back at

[solid gyro]

excpet Supper heavy with two main turres and rest into Dual porpouse 😄

[drowsy plank]

1 or 2 not really, but 4 or so can kill the bombers of like 6 carriers?

[quartz bronze]

Then you can always add a dedicated AA to it. Two AA 3s with dual purpose AA will shred bombers

[solid gyro]

5 dual porpuse is better 😄

[drowsy plank]

yeah but by the time you've got dual purpose in non-modded games the naval war is usually already almost over

because one side or the other already got slaughtered

[zenith lagoon]

That is an issue in hoi4. After a certain time period there is no major enemy

Like, when the comintern and/or allies are dead, you already won basically

[drowsy plank]

Eh in mp games people can come back