latest-updates

[fresh cedar]

TOA was so fun too, not sure why people hated it.

[smoky atlas]

for 15 euros, everything it added were focus trees for half of the countries in south america... that's it.

we expected good focus trees, instead we ended up only having 4 research slots, 1 mil factories for 70 day focuses, big ass research bonuses but in exchange big ass stab & political power maluses, and oh my god, every south americans have the SAME military focuses...

they "tried" to fix it when the backlash was enormous when it released, but the fixes they gave us were minimal

we complained about the 4 research slots, they didn't care

the only good thing coming out of these focuses is the air focus tree, it's absolutely busted

with enough coding skills, I assume it's pretty easy to replicate everything Trial of Allegiance has added and post it in the workshop, for free.

[hollow lion]

Focuses, yes, though it also has focus icons, a loading screen, 3D models, portraits, music, voicelines

[smoky atlas]

still not worth 15 euros to my eyes

[hollow lion]

Well, its 7 50 right now

[fresh cedar]

Yet they were very fun, and make up for a lack of research with unifying South America. Getting factories and manpower

[smoky atlas]

good for you

there's alot of us that really don't like it and regret paying for it

[fresh cedar]

Yeah there’s a lot of people who complain after every dlc yet continue to purchase content

I’m not sure if it’s similar to a drug addiction or what. But you can choose to research DLC before buying it and decide not to purchase

Acting surprised for what it offered after purchasing even though it was clearly listed is a bit funny

[coral drift]

Again, i really hope the 5th research slot should've been softlocked by enormous amount of factories. Don't hardlock it

(especially for Indonesia, plsplsplspls)

[coral drift]

Lel, good for them to be able to bought it on the first place

[whole arch]

Even my American ass can't afford it lmao, though I'd rather invest in something like a laptop or new PC or smth than hoi4 DLCs anyways

[green scaffold]

the focus trees are pretty decent

they're not as bad as ncns or something

[coral drift]

How many shawarmas can you buy with the price of NCNS?

[green scaffold]

the main thing I'd want is some way to limit the wars to inside south america without joining the world war

ans joining when its convenient

but that's like a general issue with the game

[whole arch]

Probably too many...

[green scaffold]

ncns honestly has the worst trees by far

[coral drift]

I can buy 19 XL shawarmas near my place

[green scaffold]

the faction mechanics are cool, air base access is nice, naval headquarters is ok, but the focus trees are so ass

[whole arch]

Dear lord 😭

[coral drift]

? Rupiah is that bad, sorry....
You can buy 8 right?

[whole arch]

I personally really liked historical Japan, it's cool and such, the issue is that there's so much to do that even 35 day focuses are too long to get any of it done in a balanced way
Also the fact that it just buffs you to the moon, which means you're trouncing the outdated focus trees no problem
I however am too broke to get the dlc so idk bout the others

That's just my opinion though

[green scaffold]

japan is like. semi fine but there are way too many useless focuses and its bloated for no reason

[coral drift]

Eeh, would not say it's outright ass, but i think certain alt-history paths can be retooled to be "playing tall" and focusing on your building slots/production
Instead of "playing wide" and gaining max cores.....

[coral drift]

I'm happy able to run it all the way until 1949 on historical path and still have a few left
Like, you can do the historical politics ones on the actual dates, then in-between you can do the 'bloat' focuses on economy and military

Still, YMMV

[whole arch]

Definitely making more of those focused shorter or skipable is definitely needed
I shouldn't have to skip most of my industry paths, Air Force paths, and navy paths though to be able to get an army of any reasonable size and keep the nation from completely exploding

Also the inherint flaw of Japan being, well, a navy based nation figjting primarily naval European powers

And China is too easy

[coral drift]

Well, you're lucky. I got bogged down hard there, but still able to conquer China before 1941, then choosing to attack north instead of South, lel

[green scaffold]

the Philippines tree is horrible
the nationalist china tree is pretty bad, barely give you anything, and what it does give take years. you start with so many debuffs and they take so long to get rid of and you're not even getting buffs after you get rid of them
haven't played communist china too much but its also pretty mid
rhw warlords are fine, they have few useless branches but its ok for the ai
the fact that the Chinese empire path is locked behind owning Beijing sucks tho
japan's is pretty strong, perhaps too strong, but like. bloated as hell

[green scaffold]

yeah. you can battleplan china with one army group by the end of 37

[whole arch]

Damn, that's sick
I flattened them by February 1939 (had more troubles with Shanxi than China) and then spent the entire time trying to build up my industry (barely went anywhere, either you industry build or you trade, no in-between. I was
allowing some deficits to build up and couldn't produce basically anything air related and STILL couldn't build an industry)
And then the Navy demanded I strike south.
Yamamoto died in the first month, I hadn't built my navy up, and the US was in the allies (Germany had capped in 38 somehow).

[green scaffold]

the dlc massively buffed japan and massively nerfed china

[whole arch]

I think that it does definitely need more balancing, though that might be easier once the US gets an update as well because of a lot of the reasons Japan struggled was US sanctions + supplying equipment and stuff.
Definitely they can do more with China though

I do like looking at the focus tree art though, it is nice

[green scaffold]

in game us sanctions are not gonna do much

you have other nations to trade with

and you don't really need resources to kill china

[whole arch]

It does cause issues when you inevitably fight the allies/comintern though
-# my -40 aluminum -60 steel and -48 rubber by 1942

But yeah, def needs balancing

[green scaffold]

rubber is definitely not an issue

you can take Indonesia easily

and that's infinity rubber

[whole arch]

The US Navy and the fact that I don't play Navy has something to say

[green scaffold]

ai navy is worthless

[whole arch]

Finally started a UK run to learn how to actually play Navy and get some achievements

[green scaffold]

you just stack your entire navy to one group

use patrol

win

its that easy

[whole arch]

Yeah but I didn't invest anything into Navy and got trounced, and I couldn't produce naval bombers in enough numbers to do anything cause my industry had no resources

I was focusing on army and my political stuff cause I was planning a northern strike after China and then ofc the Navy made it's stupid demands

[green scaffold]

uh, you were doing something wrong. you're not supposed to research or invest anything into navy. just your starting navu is enough to beat the ai

[whole arch]

Putting some ships on patrol + never engage, setting my capitals + their screens on strike force, I had my subs on patrol
It's probably more the fact that I was fighting the entire allied navies and air forces, including France, Britain, and the United States, so I was easily at least 3-1 navy-wise and 6-1 Air Force-wise

[fresh cedar]

The factory locking of it would be amazing

[fresh cedar]

Can’t see them really doing that with the Monroe doctrine in place. Like I doubt the US wouldn’t go ballistic

[fresh cedar]

The +20% infantry attack buff is a bit much. Though PRC gets best supply buffs in the game

[green scaffold]

Monroe doctrine didn't apply to south American infighting, but to colonial powers trying to intervene in south america

there were plenty of wars in south america that the us didn't intervene in, including during the time frame of the game and right before it

[fresh cedar]

If any South American country started gobbling up the continent as Communist/Fascist/Monarchy, the US would’ve had an issue

[brittle venture]

hiii haafe

[brittle venture]

hiii opsus

[fresh cedar]

But if it’s a limited ear of country V country then yeah shouldn’t expand

[fresh cedar]

Hi cas

[green scaffold]

hii casey

[brittle venture]

whats the discussion about i cant read

[green scaffold]

well obviously but that applies to like any nation doing anything anywhere but the game doesn't represent that

[green scaffold]

limited wars in south america

and ncns sucking

[fresh cedar]

Wish it was represented. But I think it’s less of a TOA issue and more of a game issue

[brittle venture]

NCNS added palau its the GOAT

also it added uhh

it added papua

and timor leste

and some other nations

also it updated like japan ig

[brittle venture]

ok so

south america is never going to be realistic or else itd be really unfun

like if you start any wars that arent civil wars the Estados Unidos da America will intervene and invade you and you dont get to gloop up the continent for big eco and fun gaming

like its just hard

but other continents also have that issue like africa, unifying arabia, uniting china

you should have some way to gloop up land because its fun, but of course you need guarantees/factions or otherwise itd be too easy

the world tension system just kinda is bad

[fresh cedar]

Should almost be dependent on continent/faction idk

[brittle venture]

rn its like

you care if youre below 10 caused

you dont care if its above because its all the same

[fresh cedar]

Plus, does a whole faction need to be fighting in some cases or only the guarantor

[brittle venture]

what

[fresh cedar]

For instance, if I attack the Falklands as Argentina, does the entirety of the Allies need to be called in

Or just have UK fight

[brittle venture]

yes

[fresh cedar]

It’s annoying that not only is WT busted. But you just can’t fight a 1 V 1 in situations where it should be

[brittle venture]

wdym do you not remember the falklands war

they were getting NATO in if they could

[fresh cedar]

NATO doesn’t exist in game until late game, plus in WW2 they may not intervene as the entirety of the Allies if it meant pushing Argentina into Germanys faction

[brittle venture]

invasions of iraq, iran

ww2 they just invaded places

[fresh cedar]

They have oil, what does the Falklands have?

[brittle venture]

southern rockhopper penguins

[fresh cedar]

Yeah so nothing 😭

[brittle venture]

also a lot of sheep apparently

[fresh cedar]

I’m just saying, in some cases would be nice to have a limited war

Invading Argentina as a whole and not just fighting over the islands would be kinda nuts even for WW2

[brittle venture]

ww2 was all about southern rockhopper penguins and sheep

something something nazi antarctic bases

[fresh cedar]

Would be cool to have the artic 😂

Though would be pretty dumb

[brittle venture]

no like highkey thats why the falklands is important, it lets the uk claim a bunch of antarctica, which matters to argentina

like IRL if you want to have dominance over antarctica, you need to control drake's passage

[fresh cedar]

If UK owns Falklands, Hitler dies. If Argentina does, Hitler flees to and takes over Antarctica

[brittle venture]

the ENTIRE MAP would have to be redone highkey

[thick edge]

Hoi5

[brittle venture]

hoi5 will be all about the conquest of antarctica

[green scaffold]

except its also rng

because the uk can pick a faction rule

and guarantee nations when you're at 0 caused

[brittle venture]

this is false

[green scaffold]

this is not false

[brittle venture]

ai never guarantees if youve caused less than 10 regardless of game rules

[green scaffold]

this used to be the case

before ncns

[brittle venture]

id know because i always have guarantees on free

they never do it even before

you probably caused like 11 or something

then they do

[green scaffold]

no i know what im talking about

there is less than 10% wt

[brittle venture]

less than 10 caused by you

maybe its because this is 13 total or you went up above 10 for a bit

idk

[green scaffold]

this is 9% total...

if they pick the faction rule, they will guarantee below that

[thick edge]

Yeah that would be nice

[fresh cedar]

HOI5 will be on a spherical map confirmed

[thick edge]

Globe?

[fresh cedar]

Will be able to see ICBM’s enter orbit

[thick edge]

But yeah that would be really cool

[fresh cedar]

Both mean the same thing 🙂

[thick edge]

I was just checking I knew what you meant

[fresh cedar]

Kinda would like a globe though

[thick edge]

Btw

Do u remember if weather is visual?

Like clouds

Rain

Lighting

Etc

[fresh cedar]

Wdym

I know the game has weather if that’s what you’re asking

Pretty sure you can see snow on the ground, or rain

[thick edge]

Like can you see rain on the map

And clouds when u zoom out

[fresh cedar]

HOI5 needs large storms 😮‍💨

[thick edge]

Historical weather

[fresh cedar]

Idk about clouds, like they’re just aesthetic but yeah you can see weather in tiles

[thick edge]

Ok

[fresh cedar]

Exactly though, would be amazing

[brittle venture]

weather RNG is kinda realistic

otherwise itd just be metagamed anyway

[coral drift]

Hopefully not too tactical

[crimson tartan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoi4/comments/b831xz/man_the_guns_2_sharkstorm/

[wicked aurora]

I do play the game sometimes..what always confuses me, are the differences in armymanagement between land and sea and air...i would like to have a more consistent ui there

[robust grail]

Panzerschiff
Service Manpower
1800 → 1200
Hull IC cost
3500 → 3000 → 2800
Surface Visibility
22 → 20 → 18
Holy, Is Pzs good now? we have a AA ship that significantly cheaper than a BB now.

[crimson tartan]

who cares about navy yooooo❓

[fading walrus]

Me

[quiet kernel]

navy is pretty fun

[brittle venture]

coastal defense ship METAAA

[crimson tartan]

can we actually ban these guys ⏫ ⏫ from playing hoi4

navy is not fun at all

[hoary siren]

Y

[sacred seal]

It is if you know how to use it

Naval invasions are frustrating sometimes though

[whole arch]

Hot take, it's not that difficult once you figure it out, it's just incredibly time consuming and way too much clicking/sacrificing on other fronts with your industry and nat focused if you want a solid navy
If they added a way to save designs of your ships that would make a lot more people play it cause it really just comes down to fleet composition and the modules you have

[thick edge]

What?

It’s so fun building a navy then watching the massive naval battle happen

And then winning

[crimson tartan]

🙁

[thick edge]

Yeah lots of industry/time/research is needed

[brittle venture]

its all about losing

[crimson tartan]

in those countries i like to play navy is just meh + useless + waste of time

[whole arch]

I personally would prefer to just build naval bombers and have a bigger army industry with good buffs to investing the time, resources, and energy needed to split between your army, air and navy

[thick edge]

Oh yeah definitely

But it’s fun to do every once and a while

[green scaffold]

hoi4 needs the BICE mechanic

where research slots are designated for specific branches

so you can research navy without losing out

[whole arch]

For sure, in the middle of my first dedicated naval run after 520-something hours and it definitely is gonna be rewarding once I make a navy.
Really, Britain is for sure the easiest naval power because you can build the rest of your industry in your colonies and have their factories on it while you focus on dockyards, I struggle to want to do it with other nations except maybe France :P

[whole arch]

I agree with this
Also shortening focus times tbh
The focus trees are big enough to where 35 days is too long to be able to invest in everything
Even 20 or 25 day focuses would be very nice

[thick edge]

35 day focuses are too long now?

[whole arch]

Doing a Japanese run the other day, you either get good buffs in a few very select locations and miss out on half of your tree or you do everything and don't really get much good stuff

There's just so much to do within such a limited timeframe

-# historical Japanese, I don't have NCNS

[brittle venture]

yes, thats intentional

you cant do everything

you have to pick

thats game design, you have to make choices

[whole arch]

Yeah, but you shouldn't completely ignore your economy, air force, navy just to be able to progress in time to actually do things without your nation collapsing as well

[brittle venture]

japan can do air or navy, and air is better, you cant have both and a reasonable ground force, in game

you can have all be mediocre but that just means none of them are good

[plucky schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/hoi4-does-anyone-want-to-play-alone-hearts-of-iron4-gif-24027448

[coral drift]

<@&846894118219022336>

[robust grail]

I thought we have save design feature already?

[robust grail]

You don't need that many time to research navy, the only important part is module, and they are very fast to research. After the merge of naval gun tech, it even faster. About industry, the amount of IC you have to build dock will never surpass the number you spend for army or airforce.

The only problem is time, but the time building ship is the only part that actually faster than irl.

[robust grail]

Heh, my first proper navy run is with USSR, and no one know that they also have focus to spawn Yamato style BB along with carrier, combine with the fact that Soviet Navy don't get debuff to get rid of, you can actually have a better Navy than Japan in 1941 while still strong enough for army and air force.

By 1943-1944 you will eclipse even the Allies in term of Naval power if you want.

[coral drift]

From the latest Australian DC yesterday

Hopefully more province granularity in the region as a whole

[hollow coral]

huh when was this

definitely shouldnt make the whole center innacessable

maybe roads leading through it

[coral drift]

Yesterday

[hollow coral]

i dont see on forums

[coral drift]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/dev-corner-2601009-taog-canberra-air-disaster.1905393/page-3#post-31199124

[peak flame]

The very centre state is accessible, the two states on either side of it are not.

And there are focuses which build the railway through there to Darwin, and establish a supply hub at Alice Springs

[thick edge]

Those provinces for the Sahara in GWR may be interesting

I’m not sure if I have a picture

[thick edge]

very bad screenshot from a bittersteel stream

[peak flame]

Yeah I’ve seen mods doing that before, more like the EU5 system

We’ve no plans to change that at this point though, as we’re focused on south east Asia 🙂

[mild ledge]

Will the german AI be fixed?

[nova smelt]

Should I do Plan Z or Trade Interdiction first as germany?

[polar jasper]

Great War Redux Africa is just the worst

[polar jasper]

I do Plan Z to get the Bismarck and Tirpitz for free*

[thick edge]

Oh 100% but I was more of hinting towards the Australian desert

[nova smelt]

alr

[thick edge]

a division that could be moved with airplanes would be nice

like a doctrine choice for paratroopers

it would be situational but cool

[vapid girder]

depends if you want to invest in your navy or not

if you just want to sub spam or ignore navy completely then go trade interdiction

[coral drift]

I remember playing a custom scenario in Interwar era for Railroad Tycoon 2 to build a railway from Darwin to Adelaide

My disappointment when i discovered the fact that the rail was only connected from Tarcoola to Alice Springs in 1980, and Darwin in 2004.

[fresh cedar]

What’s wrong with the German AI?

[keen totem]

woaw

[marsh pewter]

@tidal harbor dm for me pls

[robust grail]

They feel underperforming right now, they can't push deep into Soviet territory and can collapse very fast depend on Allies mood of that run.

[mild ledge]

broken in historical

cant push past kyiv , 10 percent chance to cap soviets

lose 2m men on meginot

etc

[fresh cedar]

Whenever I play historical they seem to beat the Soviets

[mild ledge]

What dlc do you not have

[fresh cedar]

I have every single DLC for HOI4 🙂

No mods, vanilla Ironman

[mild ledge]

Hm it looks like it changed for people

Some people germany is completely useless

Some people germany destroys soviets

[fresh cedar]

Like 4/5 times for me Germany wins and ik because I mostly play historical

For me the German empire is the really weak one normally

[fresh cedar]

I just have a different experience in my games. They seem to always steamroll the Soviets initially the either win by 1944-1945 or get to historical limit then get pushed back

[keen totem]

same here because usually it just makes everyone an enemy

[wise oxide]

Deinosuchus should need to eat once a year to be accurate

[fading walrus]

?

Deniosuchus has been extinct for 83 million years

I knew that Crocodillians can survive a while without food

[wise oxide]

wrong server lmao

sorry

i tought i was typing in the isle discord😅

cant wait for dlc dev diaries tho

[glacial moth]

been stuck in this never ending forever war, it’s been like 6 years with some back and forth by a few hundred miles but always ends up. 2/3rds of my army is spammed out Dronessturm with five infantry each back when I was reaching 40% capitulation and shitty ai garrison divisions and im deficit of 20k guns

Encircling them hasn’t worked. I’ve killed the entire Stalliongrad military. More equestrian tanks than I care to remember but they come back. Elite difficulty with Equestria given AI buffs.

My current plan is to defend my Aerodynamics Facility a few more months to tech jets and hopefully gain green air long enough.

Tank template and war status

These tanks are from a two year old chassis, I know light tanks suck but I never do them and wanted to try them out. I remember why I dont use them.

[glacial moth]

nvm lost war

[green scaffold]

this tank suck even for a little tank

you can make decent light tanks at least

the template also bad

[glacial moth]

Its all I could really afford at the time.

[green scaffold]

part of the issue is that its too costly lol

you can make a much better tank for much lower cost

[brittle venture]

well this tank is just horrible as well

its so expensive

[glacial moth]

I had alot of industry to throw around.

And I don’t really use light tanks often…

[brittle venture]

theyre cheaper if theyre like light TDs

and have wheels

and not the most expensive engine

and a better gun

and

[glacial moth]

Don't tank destroyers have like no good soft attack?

[brittle venture]

its -40% cost per batallion!!!!

and the close support gun is just super mega expensive

[grim nimbus]

y'all think im playing siege today?

[elder fjord]

is the philippines blocked rn? cuz from the guide i saw macarthur was supposed to be non-aligned but the ruling party becomes democratic in my playthru

[fresh cedar]

Blocked?

[coral drift]

Softlocked

[coral drift]

Try to approach the Sakdalista's election contensting correctly

[peak flame]

Shouldn't be, he's meant to stay Democratic (pro-USA) but with the ability to justify wars like a non-democratic. Please submit bug report if that's not what is happening.

[coral drift]

^

Interested to maka a video, but since I can't make a video right now I handed it over to my Indonesian streamer friends

[brisk patrol]

What do you guys think Expansion pass 3's DLCs will be if it follows the Big Content pack and Smaller Content pack?

Personally I think any of the big 3 western allies beings UK, France or USA could be good

[fresh cedar]

Allies, and air rework maybe

[brisk patrol]

Air rework?

[fresh cedar]

Something’s about air are kinda iffy and allied bombing campaigns were a major part of the war

[brisk patrol]

True

[fresh cedar]

Would like a similar bombing mechanic to devastation in Stellaris for states

Like the more a state is bombed, it gets wrecked

[brisk patrol]

I think the "minor" content pack could even be a france pack with north africa and indochina

[fresh cedar]

Agreed, and real Vichy tree

[brisk patrol]

could be UK and its commonwealth buddies too

I think they might be done fleshing out East Asia though

Indochina still is important so it'd be sad

[fresh cedar]

North Africa really needs work

I want a convoy designer too 😂

[brisk patrol]

And I know Iceland played a role, but it's sad iceland has a focus tree over Ireland

[brisk patrol]

too much lmao

[fresh cedar]

Nah, some had AA and a gun

I mean if transport planes have 3 types, convoys should too

[brisk patrol]

Italian Libya, Egypt & Tunisia 🥺

Am I unreasonable if I want another 2D art pack

[fresh cedar]

I could go for that or new infantry models for majors, reworking each inf equipment uniform

So late war Germans have camo, and US go from Brodie interwar to their normal uniform

[brisk patrol]

I think the problem is that it has to go to a fully complete nation

Soviet Union is complete which is why it got given that, because theyre not gonna rework their focus tree anymore (well atleast from how I see it as hoi4 is completed within 2 years)

Germany already looks great but the rest of the majors arent so great apart from italy

[brisk patrol]

Actually, even once HOI4 is "complete" they could still do regional content packs with no mechanics for maybe a year

[barren tusk]

4 pings of HOi4, none a single of incoming dlc

🥀

[thick edge]

More modern of a convoy

Less convoys u need for lend leases

And resources

or just fixing the lend leases to begin with would be nice

[green scaffold]

don't

pls don't

lend lease is the best mechanic in this game i don't want them messing with it

[fresh cedar]

Atleast for trucks/convoys. think a basic designer would be cool. Though would like if there was just a generic model so you didn’t HAVE to design one. But if you wanted an expanded one you could

Convoys though should atleast have a few versions like transport planes do

[thick edge]

Looks how many convoys u need per gun

Just a bit less convoys is all

[green scaffold]

oh that part

well

luckily, you don't need to produce convoys to have them

[thick edge]

Yeah

[green scaffold]

and you can lend lease that too

[coral drift]

Wait for Tuesday, as usual

Hopefully more country DCs for TaoG

Then moving on for PooT's DDs

[fresh cedar]

Love it 😂

Maybe peace in our time can come out for the tenth anniversary 😎

[keen totem]

isnt the anniversary in June?

[fresh cedar]

Higgins boats confirmed?

[stable tusk]

Maybe they'll announce reworks for the countries that landed at D-Day? America, Britain, and Canada

[keen totem]

it'd be nice and fitting but i dont think paradox would put two majors in the same rework

[stable tusk]

True, maybe in an expansion pass? But usually they do like one big DLC and a country pack or smth

[keen totem]

unsure, maybe paradox will prove us wrong but im not too hopeful

although the US and UK were grouped together in man the guns

so who knows

[green scaffold]

they put Japan and china in the same dlc and china is practically a major

[keen totem]

i suppose you're right

[hollow coral]

i prefer morocco over libya

[tired pagoda]

guys what will the new dlc have?

[wooden wyvern]

china altogether acts as a major player but none of the individual tags alone have that weight imo

not to mention economically and militarily they dont stack up

its only in a strategic sense where you can consider them a major player

[hollow coral]

thers two

one individual dlc made by modders which with have czech and slovakian content

and another one with australia rework, indonesia and siam tree

[mild ledge]

Congrats mate

You discovered the chinese united front

There will never be a scenario where everyone in china is a individual tag

[wooden wyvern]

Yes that is ny point

The other majors are single tags

China only becomes one through multiple

[coral drift]

Supersemar's "Tan Malacca" would be neat

[fresh cedar]

I appreciate them asking for achievement ideas but I don’t really know what they should add since I have very little context on the content of the dlc

Have we even gotten a dev diary for it?😭

I’m very unsure of how the trees are structured or what their goals are

[barren tusk]

Make an achievement making Liberia spreading democracy to Africa

[hollow coral]

that ones clever

[keen totem]

agreed

lot of cool sounding ideas in the forum

[hollow coral]

genuinely we still know very little and the past dcs have been just mechanics or other things

this one is more interactive though

[keen totem]

it's an interesting approach

wonder how it'll end up effecting the final product

[lost otter]

What new provinces does the new update have?.

[fresh cedar]

I guess I’d just like to know more before offering achievement ideas 😔

[coral drift]

Well, same tbh
Evenmore interested on new states in the region

At least we got Mount Isa and Central Australia as a teaser 😋

[fresh cedar]

Plan ahead for what? We pretty much only know what countries are in it. Not what paths they’re taking

Achievements are based off paths like 90% of the time

It’s weird because they normally ask about achievements later

Nah they have before but never so early 😭

Like we had an idea of what the content would be

Like yeah I can offer historical achievements but I find the alt history ones are the most fun

Which we kinda know nothing about

[keen totem]

we can only take a guess as to what the alt history paths might include or be

[brittle venture]

i need grindable air high command,,

[fresh cedar]

1. Australasian Confederation
2. Rattanakosin Kingdom

[fresh cedar]

I want this the most

Feel like air aces, air wings, and bomber groups are a huge missed opportunity

Just wish pilots/training was more in depth

[keen totem]

australasian confederation better be apart of this dlc

[fresh cedar]

Would be surprised if it wasn’t

[keen totem]

wonder if ANZAC will be mentioned through the focus tree at all

[keen totem]

yeah

[fresh cedar]

Kind of my point though. We genuinely don’t know what will be in the DLC yet

[keen totem]

it seems the most probable out of literally any formable they could add

[brittle venture]

austronesian people's formable, where you can core the pacific, aotearoa, australia and malagasy lands (such as madagascar, seychelles)

[fresh cedar]

How can we plan for achievements where are the product of entire trees without knowing the trees 😭

[fresh cedar]

That would be cool

[keen totem]

sounds cool

australia democratic paths should involve either remaining loyal to britain, cutting ties (its in the game already, you make your own faction with the east indies), and maybe even going as far to declare a republic

[brittle venture]

faction with new zealand + free fiji (they had a division during ww2 and had combined command with the NZLAF)

[keen totem]

new zealand and malaysia should get the paraguay/uruguay treatment with this dlc

[brittle venture]

as well as indonesia, png, timor leste, malaysia ofc

new zealand is too important in ww2

[keen totem]

not a massive focus tree or anything but something reasonable for the two

[brittle venture]

same for malaysia really, the largest british military loss ever was in singapore

[keen totem]

true

arguably their worst loss in the entire war

but paradox has stated no intention to give the two fully fleshed out trees

with this dlc

[brittle venture]

kind of, it was their worst military loss ever, but dunkirk is close

[keen totem]

and there's really no other instance id see where they go back

[brittle venture]

for ww2 events

its just they got out of that one

[keen totem]

they were able to squeeze uruguay and paraguay in with ToA

[brittle venture]

malaysia has been, new zealand no information

[keen totem]

they're relatively simple but it was really nice

[keen totem]

really?

when

[brittle venture]

dlc is malaysia+east indies+australia

from the first announcements

[keen totem]

interesting

im just wondering what a malaysia tree would look like

[brittle venture]

im not too well versed, so ill only make some suggestions here someone else could bring to forums if they want

like austronesian people are important, so are the maori ofc

[keen totem]

itd be funny to give new zealand a maori path (like something similar to chile's mapuche path)

[brittle venture]

i think fiji even if not independent could be an event to get freedom/should have some significance as to this day theyre the third largest regional army

[coral drift]

That, and also historical precedences that are available in history books.

Like, Mohammad Hatta named his cats "Ataturk, Hitler, Tito, Benito, Franco, and Jonkheer"

[brittle venture]

and its a war game

[keen totem]

clearly paradox is robbing us of the real opprotunity to allow a kingdom of tonga world conquest.

justice for tonga

[brittle venture]

another thing thats important i think is an australian aboriginal path, and maybe something to do with the emu wars because people tend to meme those, its good PR and also fun for gameplay

[keen totem]

i could imagine a meme path for australia will involve having an emu emperor

[brittle venture]

speaking of that, samoa did have nazi leaders and a lot of german culture

it was occupied by new zealand after ww1

[keen totem]

adding focus trees to tiny islands would definitely be absurd but some flavor maybe would be nice

[brittle venture]

and there was a small fringe pro nazi party, and a german ship was even sent our to them

[coral drift]

Well, it's good to have creative-minded people voicing their opinion early, evenmore if it's from the locals

[brittle venture]

maybe not trees but like (sub) paths or events related to it

would be nice

like for example a fascist new zealand could have events related to samoa

[keen totem]

yeah

[brittle venture]

im not exactly a local, native, or expert though

[keen totem]

we need the glorious kingdom of tonga added

[coral drift]

*Siam + East Indies + Australia

Malaya content, French Indochina as starting tag, and New Zealand rework are still hopium

[brittle venture]

its be a neat formable

[keen totem]

tonga world conquest achievement

[brittle venture]

oh sorry

[keen totem]

i feel like hoping for at least something for malaya and new zealand is reasonable though

[brittle venture]

maybe similar to the uhh central asian one

where it gives a spirit with some buffs

[keen totem]

realistically when will paradox return to grant those two their own trees

[brittle venture]

for tonga that could be like navy related

[brittle venture]

its up to them what they have resources for

[keen totem]

fair enough

[brittle venture]

they might give it content, or wait until later, its best to take appropriate time for more thought-out and balanced content

[keen totem]

but we can still hope..

[coral drift]

Fully-cored Nusantara

At least Dutch East Indies should not core Aceh and West Papua at the game's start

[keen totem]

why i think maybe something like what they did with uruguay and paraguay in ToA could work here

but idk

[brittle venture]

theres still west papuan resistance to this day

with the WPLF

[coral drift]

Yuup

[coral drift]

Well, Wenda and Tabuni has clashed over leadership since 2021
But that's beyond the timeframe

[keen totem]

makes perfect sense

[brittle venture]

its also modern politics, i just figured itd be important context

that to this day they still dont fully "core" the area so to say

[keen totem]

@coral drift wondering if someone like Hamengkubuwono VIII could be probable for an indonesian monarchy path

[coral drift]

Even some villages in Java hinterland still did not have electricity

[coral drift]

Only if the monarchists can win in the first place

By 1936 they are a shadow compared to their 1911 selves and reduced into a faction within an Indonesian party

[brittle venture]

im glad they addressed it in part last update, giving papua cores

[keen totem]

makes sense

[brittle venture]

itd be good to show local resistance, non core factions in the east indies, as it is after all colonial rule too

[keen totem]

would assume logically then a monarchist independent indonesia would involve building up said support for a monarchist movement

[coral drift]

Working with fellow local princes or crushing them

[brittle venture]

theres seperate monarchy paths possible, theres dutch aligned monarchists, and independence monarchists, the latter is probably harder to represent

[keen totem]

sounds like an interesting idea

any other prominent princes that could potentially become the monarch?

im interested

[coral drift]

Mhm
I consider the latter 'wacky' compared to getting the party as a whole winning the Indies pre-WW2 revolution

[coral drift]

Only the descendants of Sultan Agung Hanyakrakusuma (Sultan Hanyakrakusuma the Great)
Soo, all four Central Javanese monarchs

[keen totem]

interesting

[coral drift]

If only this book has an English edition....

[keen totem]

im wondering because im thinking of the mughal path for the raj here

specifically the event where you choose a monarch

there's four options for the monarchy iirc

[coral drift]

Well, the party with monarchists itself was pretty much formed as a Javanese-only organization in 1908

Because it was them who has romanticist ideas about Majapahit

[keen totem]

so id assume that the javanese princes are the most probable for an indonesian monarchy?

[coral drift]

Other princes in the other islands are content within their own territories

[coral drift]

*Pan-Indonesian monarchy

And the answer is yes

[keen totem]

i should definitely read more into them then

sounds interesting

what would the name of an indonesian monarchy be

like on the map

something like the "Kingdom of Indonesia" doesnt sound fully right to me

[coral drift]

Going full Hindu-Buddhist (or Javanist) and naming the kingdom Majapahit Empire would make the Islamists and Malays at Sumatra mad, lol
But one point for pop-cultural reference and adhering to the actual aims of the Majapahit Revivalists

[keen totem]

sounds logical

[coral drift]

Hmm
For English books, Ricklefs' "History of Modern Indonesia" would be a good start despite not going into the specifics like Fakih's book above

[keen totem]

i should definitely look into it whenever i get the chance then

[brittle venture]

i was showering whats up chat

also remember, even though hoi likes to add culture/historical references to ahist paths, its still mostly a militaty centered game

so these paths can be "controversial" if it ends up being more/better gameplay

for example being one of the return of majapahit princes so to say, gameplay included i dont think should be decision coring based necessarily, but maybe in part having buildings damaged/having to fight certain princes/areas of these princes that are against your path

similar to road to 56 germany you could have a sort of civil war where there are multiple factions, and depending on who wins that path will be gone down, this would also add control from other nations over paths by for example sending volunteers

the hardest part of course is making sure this wont be a stalemate, for which i think events could be useful, though, im unsure in what form

[silver snow]

Showering?

🤢

[coral drift]

Mhm
I mean, the Indies Unraveling can played out like 2nd Russian Civil War or Italo-Ethiopian War

The longer it gets, more releaseables gets free

[keen totem]

i like this idea

[brittle venture]

thats fair, whats your thoughts? do you prefer event based/path dependant civil wars?

[coral drift]

And then the Pan-Indonesian oriented ones can reconquer those territories

[keen totem]

i feel as if a rebellion in west papua or aceh first would make sense

then the rest of the princes start to go

[coral drift]

Maybe in-between those two wars' mechanics?

So some can be randomly-triggered, some are escalation-only?

Especially if the Indies side has different ideology/leading political group

[keen totem]

they did say they're using the war escalation mechanic for this

maybe the farther it escalates more unrest builds up?

[coral drift]

Ya, exactly. But would all of them are triggered only by escalation, or randomized through events like the Russian 2CW....

[keen totem]

maybe by the end of the revolution there could be a mutually exclusive focus of retaking them all by force or, or trying to integrate peacefully

[keen totem]

i think maybe a mix of both could work here?

[coral drift]

Precisely my ideas above, lel

[coral drift]

^

I love brainstorming like this. If only I have a working laptop....

[keen totem]

maybe what breaks away depends on ideology

[brittle venture]

but say (i have no knowledge of this region so im sorry if this is far inaccurate) the borneo region has a large communist movement, the java region has a large monarchist movement, and the aceh/papua areas have large independence/other ideology movements for example, i think it would be most sensible to have a multi-party civil war

maybe with different tags, maybe just dyntags

where your path would decide which youd end up being, and give them some extra advantage

[coral drift]

The releaseables can be of use

[coral drift]

Yeah, like the Russian 2CW
But some regions would be harder for an ideology/political group to be built support on in the leadup

Tbh my point regarding "enough historical materials to not making outlandish/borderline ASB paths" for the Indies still stands

All the talks above are for the Indonesian side only

[summer stone]

#hearts-of-iron-news message let me guess another 60 dollar dlc instead of an actual update to the base game

[void walrus]

a

[keen totem]

some historical realism is obviously going to be there and grounded but it's also paradox there's the excuse always of "it's a video game", so i'd expect to see paradox to have some leniency or bend the point of realism to allow for gameplay reasons

[coral drift]

The Indonesian Monarchists winning the revolution is sensible, but not by putting Sukarno on the throne.

[keen totem]

makes sense

i dont expect paradox to do anything THAT crazy aside from a secret hidden meme path maybe

not even sure what they would do in this scenario though

[coral drift]

Papuan Koreri path?

[keen totem]

cant say im 100% aware of what that is 😅

[coral drift]

(fun fact, the flag used in-game is a result of a public discussion i partake on the Rt56 server. i even checked my books to confirm the correct arrangement)

[coral drift]

West Papuan resistance against Japan in WW2

[keen totem]

ooh

[keen totem]

speaking of flags i think the british malaya flag should be changed

[coral drift]

It is currently using Strait Settlement's flag

[keen totem]

i think malaysia's situation in-game should be changed

[coral drift]

The current arrangement is suffice, maybe with North Borneo not cored in the start
If not, you have to change British Raj and Dutch East Indies too

[keen totem]

i mean something similar to the british raj is fine

the princely states not being cored on start works

for malaysia's case, could have the unfederated states as being uncored

straits settlements could be directly owned by britain

[coral drift]

Oh okay
Though you're talking about making Malaya into three separate starting tags

[keen totem]

wouldn't really work all that great

[coral drift]

Better to have more province granularity in the region

[keen totem]

agreed

raj of sarawak could be represented again as being non-cored under malaya maybe

north borneo directly ruled by britain

iirc malaysia got independence via legal agreement

so i'd imagine any hypothetical malaysian tree would be something maybe similar to the filipino one, of negotiation and building up for independence

and since paradox did state they want to represent late-game and post-ww2 stuff more, the malaysian emergency would be nice

[coral drift]

Eeh, Huk Rebellion didn't make it.

[keen totem]

unfortunate

i feel the philippines in general sorta lacks a lot

[coral drift]

Only 2-3 less compared to my mod. But then again they aren't "of age" yet in 1936.

Even in EIR Nasution and Soeharto would only appear in mid-1950s

[keen totem]

it makes logical sense

but my issue with the philippines is that most of the focus tree is tailored around fixing the countries economy and then the rest of it is kinda just there

[coral drift]

It could have more political stuffs, i agree, but the economic stuffs are solid

[keen totem]

not saying necessarily to cut back the economics stuff

and it's nice that (unlike the congo) it isnt locked behind being a puppet

[brittle venture]

its just a slow country, meant to be poor and isolated

you have the OP core everyone spanish path, you have the fastgame communist path where its still slow

[coral drift]

Could have a decision to buy Sabah, if you ask me

[brittle venture]

but its like

you gotta have bad countries

[keen totem]

makes sense

[brittle venture]

dont just bloat everyone

i think the philippines is good

same for iceland

[keen totem]

it's not bad at all

[brittle venture]

its not strong, its slow

but its balanced and good

[keen totem]

it just feels a bit slow sometimes for my liking

[coral drift]

Mhm
And especially The Indies where political it stands on an even lower ground than the Philippines

[keen totem]

not a bad tree necessarily if anything the devs did a great job

[brittle venture]

the only issue i have with philippines is lack of ability to prospect/extract resources

because trade kinda sucks

but its whatever

[brittle venture]

i mean usually the fast track for stuff like this is civil wars

to break free but no eco

[coral drift]

Hence why I wanted more lategame construction and prospecting tech.

Southeast Asia and Australia would benefit massively from lategame prospectings

[brittle venture]

like idk, people need to stop complaining about countries being weak

[keen totem]

the tech tree really should be updated

in general

[brittle venture]

afghanistan being weak was good for balance

strong defensive terrain and spawn in units for like yk, fighting back, bur challenging

[keen totem]

my issue with it isn't that it's weak, it's that it just feels slow to me

[brittle venture]

like ethiopia is a challenge too yk and its like, thats fine

[brittle venture]

the issue is it doesnt have wars

its a war game and it just doesnt have any

and no natural resources so you cant play "tall" either

like yeah, that kinda sucks

but idk, countries gotta be weak and slow

its hard

[keen totem]

and the expansion options all require you to cap a european power

[coral drift]

I mean, actually the Indies has a solid economic base.
It's just that the output are mostly sent to the Netherlands

So in EIR i give less civs on HOL, give them to INS (with interest), and then slap a massive "civ given to overlord" modifier that would be removed if INS breaks free

[keen totem]

and the phillippines HAPPENS to be really far away from europe

doesnt make it easy

i feel like another thing this game can benefit from is a rework of peace deals

not the conferences themselves much persay but the surrender mechanics maybe and "white peaces"

[coral drift]

Hence why there is a Dutch saying, "Indies lost, disaster abound"

[keen totem]

like as an example there is no reason ethiopia should have to march to london to take neighboring british colonies

[brittle venture]

not the issue

it just doesnt have an army, or natural enemies/expansion

[keen totem]

yeah i suppose that too

[brittle venture]

the philippines is just kind of its own region, united by the spanish a century or so earlier

[keen totem]

but my point still stands, even if you do happen to make enemies of your neighbors

[brittle venture]

look at it geographically

[keen totem]

there's no feasible way to take the land you want

[brittle venture]

its surrounded by trenches

[keen totem]

without going over to europe

[brittle venture]

its very windy, very mountainous

its isolated in a lot of ways

and it is so culturally too

[keen totem]

similar sorta to how the british viewed the raj

jewel in the crown

[coral drift]

Again, perhaps a "buying Sabah" decision would be viable

[brittle venture]

idk i dont have that much knowledge, but its like, just things most people should be able to see

there are some places where theres just really not much realistic expansion

[coral drift]

And that's it for the democrats

The communist can do more obviously

[brittle venture]

idk how much you know about the philippines at the time, though

[coral drift]

Dems: Limited expansion, but more focus on economic growth and building factories

[keen totem]

philippines sorta does play more as a "playing tall" country rather then playing wide

[coral drift]

Yeeup, and that's not necessarily bad

[brittle venture]

ofc indonesia/east indies/idk other namesakes for the region is completely seperate despite being geographically "close"

[keen totem]

no not at all

[brittle venture]

related map btw, sea travel to there is also hard

shallower seas are usually more traversible

[coral drift]

Also i would be fine if Revolutionary Indonesia (whichever group leading that) only ended up with Java and Sumatra, and then you spend the rest of the game recapturing the ex-Dutch Indies territory

[keen totem]

never realized that trench there either

yikes

[coral drift]

Hammering down Ricklefs' point that DEI is the one who reunited the Archipelago after the fall of Majapahit

[keen totem]

i just wish minor countries like the philippines for example, given they DO have options to expand had a way to actually "secure" the land if that makes any sort of sense

iraq kinda has the same problem

as another example i can think of

you can push the allies out and whatnot but to actually take it you have to capitulate them by going all the way to europe

[brittle venture]

that map also struggles to do it justice

its a really odd area really

[keen totem]

think this is just a general game problem though, think limited peace deals and conditional surrenders should really be a thing paradox considers looking into one day

[brittle venture]

vic3 wargoal system fr

no but its really hard to combine limited wars, and world war 2

in such a short timeframe of a video game

[keen totem]

i see the point but this has also been something brought up for a GOOD while

afaik

[brittle venture]

yes

im not a dev or even related to them, i just think people need to be realistic with what the game is

[keen totem]

i can imagine it must be a difficult thing to consider and actually implement if they still struggle with finding a good solution

[coral drift]

Lol yeah
Hence a divide between "HoI4 is a WW2 game" and "HoI4 is a GSG in 1930s-1940s period" groups

[brittle venture]

if you have a full limited war system, why wouldnt ww2 end over germany occupying gdansk for a while

like thats also silly

i guess you could say hey, if theres multiple majors involved on both sides you cant peace out so easily

[keen totem]

i see the point here too and this is a really good one

[keen totem]

a solution id agree with

[brittle venture]

but then also, you become a major by being a leader of any faction (which is needed so not everyone caps for no reason, and so you dont need to cap everyone)

and so, youll always have situations where majors are involved

[keen totem]

or also something like, maybe occupying too much/too little land will also reduce chances at peace

[coral drift]

There is a reason why guarantee feature is there

[keen totem]

maybe something like occupying your cores/claims

[brittle venture]

its just really hard to combine limited wars as a concept with a game fundamentally revolving around the ww2 timeframe

where a lot of it was an existential war

[keen totem]

it would make sense why germany couldnt peace out hypothetically but im thinking maybe more stuff like the japan-china peace out would be nice

maybe that'd work better

[brittle venture]

also its like 11:30pm i really have to sleep smh

[brittle venture]

sino-japanese war peacing out was not an option

and if you think it was then you either have a heavy japanese bias or just dont understand the conflict

[keen totem]

in the game it's implemented that way where if you push japan far enough (forgot how far exactly) they'll wp, cede all chinese cores and release korea

that's what i mean

[brittle venture]

the concessions the japanese wanted was like, the entire chinese economy/resources, and they were willing to genocide people for it, with their supporter warlord/regime being led by not great people to say the least

and most chinese were really opposed to any of the imperial rule returning, its also why the kmt ended up doing so poorly, chiang kai shek became far too much like an emperor

[keen totem]

although this is definitely for the sake of gameplay

[brittle venture]

yes, thats realistic

japan did not have the resources for the war in the first place, and would seek peace if they got pushed out

like they were a realistic leadership

[keen totem]

like im thinking there's just enough countries that could benefit from sorta stuff like this

[brittle venture]

likely the civil faction wouldve gained a lot of power from such defeats

[keen totem]

its a shame it's only implemented in a handful of scenarios

[brittle venture]

but every nation is inherently far different

[keen totem]

definitely shouldn't be an EVERY nation type thing

[brittle venture]

and every conflict also is

[coral drift]

It's 0941 hours right now in Central Java, hehe

[keen totem]

but maybe like as a wild example if japan lands in alaska/hawaii, or pushes britain out of india and it's other asian holdings then maybe then it'd be plausible

[brittle venture]

that wasnt japan's goal

[keen totem]

yeah but im thinking more of what'd work gameplay wise

[brittle venture]

they saw the west as one entity (dutch, british, french, the united states)

and their only win condition was a decisive blow the usa mightve backed out of

[coral drift]

Yeah, countries that would preferably not be involved in WW2

[brittle venture]

occupation wasnt relevant really

and most of the follow up campaigns were more out of desperation than anything, the entire east indies occupation is more akin to germany occupying france

like really it was not a realistic goal

with burma/china being their "soviet front" equivalent

to put it in like, european terms i guess

[keen totem]

believe the "stalingrad of the east" took place in burma

forgot which battle specifically it was

again, my ideas are more thinking towards gameplay wise what would work

[brittle venture]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wuhan

[keen totem]

there we go

[brittle venture]

but yeah, point is

its all really complex

and any limited war mechanic is so extremely difficult that im pretty sure theyre not really able to make it so easily, but IDK

maybe theyll be able to

[coral drift]

Hope so
If not, a regional whitepeace events would be a good start

[keen totem]

this

im thinking maybe certain countries (like as i said, japan) should get this in the scenario of a victory in asia

maybe something akin to

pushing the UK out of asia and the raj
pushing the US out of hawaii and alaska maybe
pushing the dutch out of indonesia completely

and an event would fire off

sorta like the indian WP event if they go down the war for Independence path

[brittle venture]

theres a mod for ceasefires

it is kind of silly as it does reset surrender progress XD

but like it mostly works

[keen totem]

think ive seen it before

[coral drift]

And also have the Allies already has millions of casualties first

[keen totem]

like this idea

making it appear so costly to attempt to retake the lands they'll be more inclined to agree

[coral drift]

Like 5th research slot

Very high requirements, but you can obtain it after you achieved the reqs

to put it simply

[coral drift]

@keen totem
Forget to continue from here

I mean, Sumatra and Java are already resourceful and populous enough, so Revolutionary Indonesia can opt to make peace and consolidate.

Would still mean that "Indies verloren, rampspoed geboren" for the Netherlands even if they held Borneo and the Great East

[wooden wyvern]

even if they did want a peace china was literally too disunited to actually make one

all the leaders in china are hanging on thin strands of legitimacy or regional power and any sort of negotiation with japan would more or less lose them any position they had

[green scaffold]

they were not really realistic but they were not completely stupid

waging war on the entire world when your closest ally is 2 oceans away is not exactly something a realistic leadership would do

[brittle venture]

well yeah but thats a high bar in geopol

[frank herald]

Is there any April fool event?

[fading walrus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ yeah they are relasing a new DLC

[glacial moth]

Lots of mods have April fools releasing.

Kaiserreich changed all the flags to be KMT themed

And Equestria at War is releasing an update later today

I know a ton of other mods also have stuff planned or have teased but it’s just too early in the day for a release

Also vanilla does have new loading screen quotes

[glacial moth]

nvm just added

[hollow lion]

Road to 56 has an April fools beta today

[whole arch]

<@&846894118219022336>

[pure schooner]

Whats in it?

[keen totem]

<@&846894118219022336>

[coral drift]

I prefer this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naz0-szzYXkm

[wooden wyvern]

if you told them that their chances of making it through this were low the japanese leadership would agree

they were realistic in that sense

its also important to factor in that a lot of things just weren't in their control (ie marco polo didn't have anything to do with the government, but the escalation into full scale war did) and the japanese government was divided on the best of days and practically dysfunctional on most

i would argue they understood their situation better than many other nations at the time but they suffered from a deterministic and defeatist mindset of what they had to do to survive (which frankly wasn't completely unfounded but had horrible consequences for both them and the nations around them, based on diplomatic failings with the western powers during the preceding decades)

[fresh cedar]

Think it should be this way for many countries

[fresh cedar]

Which alt history paths do you think Indonesia should have? As well as their goals

[coral drift]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/dev-corner-2601004-taog-dutch-east-indies.1896471/#post-31081896

Idk if i should detailed it
But basically based on my research so far, you can put 7 grounded paths and 3-5 wacky ones (but still believeable if you read that deep into certain books).

[fading walrus]

Paradox still needs to add more white army generals for the tsarist path

Yes I’m well aware Kornilov, Kolchak, Yudonich and Wrangle were dead by 1936

[keen totem]

100%

[keen totem]

does bermondt join white russia?

he should

assuming bermontians arent in poland

[fading walrus]

He doesn’t as far as Ik

[keen totem]

thought so

[fading walrus]

There was an old mod that added a ton

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2729153216

[keen totem]

paradox really should revisit white russia though and tweak it a bit

i mean hell they redid a lot of india after GoE's release, surely they could simply add generals to white russia

[fading walrus]

You can even find this guys portrait in the NSB dlc files

Vsevolod Ivanovich Romanov

[keen totem]

i really hope one day they consider going back and giving russia a democratic path

[bleak jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-emoji-gif-11808594046980236746

[restive swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/acat-how-bruh-gif-24253316

[fading walrus]

Japan has a communist path btw

Even though the Communist party of Japan was a non entity in wwii as it was forced underground

[restive swallow]

Ye but like the USSR plays around the Allies anyway so like HOW? It would literly do nothing

No matter how you look at it the USSR is somewhat democratic the only thing it makes it different from democrats that the Communist can go aggressive

[fading walrus]

Non historical exists

[restive swallow]

Ik

But like would it make a difference? Even when you get the same result?

[fading walrus]

Democratic path aside white Russia needs more generals

Currently it has 7-9 including field marshals

[fading walrus]

This old mod I posted earlier actually researched who was alive in 1936

Even split fascist Russia into two sub paths (pro German and pro Japanese)

[restive swallow]

I agree that white russia has so little options from generals

[fading walrus]

Because Rodaevsky was pro Japanese and anti German irl

As he and the Russian fascist party were in exile in Manchuko

[restive swallow]

I agree that the USSR focus tree is pretty boring no matter what

[fading walrus]

Tsarist path shouldn’t take till 1939 to get the tsar back

[restive swallow]

Would like some fresh assets

[fading walrus]

Would prefer 38

[bitter mauve]

It would be fun

[brittle venture]

grind on ukraine

or like belarus

[keen totem]

absolutely

[fresh cedar]

Nah it should, that’s a huge shift in politics

[keen totem]

definitely

besides starting another civil war in russia of all places

last civil war in russia devastated the nation and ended with millions dead

it's a big deal

[fresh cedar]

That’s what I’m saying

Like if any country should have a long civil war it should be Russia or USA

[keen totem]

id argue russia's civil wars should be intense and multi-sided

at least if you go down the white path

[fresh cedar]

Would be cool if some countries like Ukraine actually had trees

[keen totem]

yes 100% agree

ive said it multiple times though so im not gonna rant about it again lol

[fresh cedar]

Kazakhstan, Belarus, Ukraine

[keen totem]

georgia should have one too

[fresh cedar]

Trueee

[keen totem]

they have the most portraits out of any russian breakaway

i think

one for every party

[fresh cedar]

Crispy no mustache Stalin

[keen totem]

and they even have unique generals

afaik

[fresh cedar]

Plus formable

[keen totem]

certain releaseables should have focus trees

korea should have one

the amount of times ive seen them pop up in my games

[fresh cedar]

Preaching to the choir

[glacial moth]

Ukraine has really good modded trees in lots of total overhauls, so it’s not too much of a loss

Korea on the other hand deserves more love cause it’s underrepresented

If any releasable needs a focus tree in vanilla, it’s Egypt. Historical precedence, close to the conflict (especially in historical), descent expansion options, and VERY underrated in the modding scene.

[hollow coral]

main two issues affecting are something with the uk ai not defending it properly on historcal and its situation in historical

egypt was neutral during the war but italy did try to invade it

italy only ever attacked british forces while egyptian forces never fought in the conflict

so it would be hard to figure out how to represent it

[glacial moth]

I am scraping the barrel a bit, most relevant countries to the war already have focus trees.

[hollow coral]

i guess some minor ones without trees are albania and morocco

malaya and burma dont have trees either

[mild ledge]

I feel like they should have something like kumul

Just two focuses

[hollow coral]

two focuses doesnt give enough for korea

a lot was happening

[mild ledge]

Despite being a hoi4 game

i mean ww2 game

99 percent of focus trees dont go past 1941

Kore adoesnt need like a korean warfocus tree

[hollow coral]

but comparing to kumul

[hollow coral]

i never said it need to go to korean war

[mild ledge]

what content should korea have

[hollow coral]

theoretically

a korean independence path mutually exclusive with a japanese puppet path

[keen totem]

egypt should be on the map at the start

[hollow coral]

should it control sudan as well or should britain control it

i opt for the way rt56 represents it

just because i think the borders look nice

[keen totem]

even if a country is irrelevant to the war or however you wish to put it, i still think every country that's at least available on game start should have a focus tree

of some sort

[keen totem]

i think anglo-egytian sudan should be represented seperately

make it a puppet of britain, in reality it was dominated by britain

but maybe a national spirit that gives egypts more share of resources and stuff like that

[hollow coral]

seems unecessary honestly

making it a part of britain is enough

[keen totem]

not the best way to portray it in my opinion

[hollow coral]

wouldnt it be better if it was a state modifier

[keen totem]

maybe?

[hollow coral]

either egyptian controlled demilitarised with uk state modifers

[keen totem]

im not really 100% sure but something of the sort to represent egyptian influence

[hollow coral]

or british controlled with egyptian state modifiers

[keen totem]

id say an egyptian focus tree should have a subbranch to deal with sudan

either if you push for independence, you can push for sudan's Independence asw (as happened historically even though it was much later) or you can push to integrate it into egypt

[hollow coral]

so wouldnt having sudan under egyptian control be better for that

[keen totem]

eh

[hollow coral]

id say no cores on sudan fully demilitarised

minor resource rights and whatnot

and state modifiers for britain

[keen totem]

i wouldn't say have egypt own sudan on start

not really the most accurate way to portray it

[hollow coral]

either way works honestly

have state modifiers represents how either party had their control

[keen totem]

id honestly rather it be its own thing on start

feel thats the best way to portray it

but idk

[hollow coral]

both technically had their share

but in reality britain dominated

[keen totem]

that's why i dont think egypt should control it on start

but at the same time just having it be under britain also feels weird to me

[fresh cedar]

I don’t play overhaul mods so it is for me 😂

[glacial moth]

Well that’s a you problem, rest of us have Ukraine.

[fresh cedar]

Nah latest updates is mostly regarding vanilla HOI4 and developer diaries. Not random bum ah mods

It’s why there’s a whole modding category to this discord

[glacial moth]

Doesn’t rly matter the exact channel

What matters is I can play unique Ukraine focus tree

[fresh cedar]

Does when you say it doesn’t matter. When many are here for vanilla. Like yeah might not matter to you but it obviously does to others in here

[glacial moth]

Just seems like a weird thing to get hung up on

The exact specifics of what’s a vanilla tree and not a vanilla tree

[hollow coral]

vanilla means base game

anything thats a mod is not vanilla

[glacial moth]

I’m aware

just saying Ukrainian trees are out there and good

Not that I wouldn’t mind a vanilla Ukrainian tree, vanilla is fun, but it’s more icing on the already great cake.

[wooden wyvern]

i care more about the actual mechanics being added than the focus trees tbh

i just want good navy

[paper gull]

I want so that u can peacefully annex New Zealand and have a focus so u can annex the pacific island nations in the new dlc

[formal lichen]

they should update the game and remove tibet as an independent country becaue thats not real

thats literally just anti chinese propaganda

they should add Yoshio Tachibana

Put in a proper tree for Vietnam and key figures for the Indochinese Communist Party

which can form into the Vietminh

make proper portraits for important historical figures like Ho Chi Minh

im sure 1.6 billion+ people would appreciate it

and if paradox isnt willing to do that, then just add in a propaganda disclaimer citing that the game isn't historically accurate

It doesn't make any sense at all to not have Yoshio Tachibana when his warcrimes pale in comparison to the many war criminals that exist in this game from Europe

And you wanna debate the facts, I'll be happy to debate it all day

[hollow coral]

im Chinese from the mainland

and i accept that Tibet was de facto independent during that time period

its history

if you want to argue its anti chinese propaganda

then they should just have china under prc control

[formal lichen]

you are from the mainland? how do you play this game?

[hollow coral]

i moved to australia a few years ago

[formal lichen]

You know about the CIA's operation to destabilize China using Tibet and the Dalai Lama?

I will argue that Tibet has stayed under Chinese control since the Yuan Dynasty

When the Qing Dynasty collapsed in 1912, the 13th Dalai Lama declared that Tibet's relationship with the "Manchu Emperor" (not China itself) was over.

From the late 1950s until 1974, the CIA provided an annual subsidy of $180,000 specifically for the Dalai Lama. This was part of a larger $1.7 million annual budget for the Tibetan program.

The "Shadow Circus" Operation: The CIA trained Tibetan guerrilla fighters at Camp Hale in Colorado and provided weapons and supplies for resistance efforts inside Tibet and from bases in Nepal.

Purpose: The program's goal was to keep the concept of an autonomous Tibet alive and collect intelligence on China. The relationship ended in the early 1970s following President Richard Nixon's visit to China to normalize diplomatic relations.

[robust grail]

Though I think China tag should have decision or somthing to core Tibet.

[hollow coral]

i mean it does

[robust grail]

It does?

[hollow coral]

yeah

even manchukuo can

[green scaffold]

what does any of that have to do with anything

Chinese warlords are playable nations

[hollow lion]

@formal lichenwe're not interested in PRC propaganda

[formal lichen]

im not Chinese

If you got an issue break down the propaganda

[green scaffold]

RKs are their own state in game and they were just a German administrative division like

[formal lichen]

deliver historical facts dont just say propaganda without citing it

[green scaffold]

no one even Germany thought they were their own state

that argument just doesn't hold water

[hollow lion]

I am a bit busy right now, I shouldve worded that more diplomatically

[formal lichen]

Tibet never declared independence

[green scaffold]

neither did the RKs?

neither did British Malaya

neither did many nations in the game

they were de facto independent

[formal lichen]

Ok so the world did not recognize their legal status unlike the Vietnamese who marched into Hanoi in 1945 and created the legal framework for recognition

[green scaffold]

that's what matters

[formal lichen]

there was a 2 year period in which recognition transitioned from ROC to PRC control, in between this time they never legally claimed their independence

if they were independent why didnt the world recognize it?

[green scaffold]

welp im feeding the troll but
you're literally arguing about an irrelevant detail

[formal lichen]

im not trolling im serious

[green scaffold]

no one said they were de jure independent

[formal lichen]

yeah so they aren't

sounds like CIA propaganda from you

[green scaffold]

Sichuan clique wasn't independent either yet it us its iwn independent state in game, your point?

[formal lichen]

and I got evidence of that

[green scaffold]

generalgovernment wasn't independent, yet it is their own state

[formal lichen]

the point is

[green scaffold]

the game literally doesn't care about international recognition

its about de facto independent

[formal lichen]

its a whitewashed history meant to downplay Asia

as a whole

[green scaffold]

like

if you wanted to say that

then you'd argue against the warlords existing

not against Tibet

[formal lichen]

ok you can say warlords exist but they would be rebel fractions rather than actual government

[green scaffold]

the war lords period in china officially ended before the start of the game date

and it was all under the roc control

technically

except Sinkiang

but the game is about de facto

[formal lichen]

so that should be noted as such

[green scaffold]

not about de jure

[formal lichen]

In the game Hearts of Iron IV (HOI4), Tibet is represented as a fully playable independent nation at the 1936 start date

In terms of gameplay mechanics and the 1936 start date, yes, Hearts of Iron IV (HOI4) gives significantly more "recognition" to Tibet than to Vietnam.

Sovereignty at Start (1936)
Tibet: Is a fully independent, playable nation. It has its own capital (Lhasa), its own leader (Reting Rinpoche/Dalai Lama), its own tiny army, and its own flag. It is not a puppet or a colony.
Vietnam: Does not exist as an independent nation in 1936. It is part of French Indochina, colored the same as France and ruled from Paris. You cannot play as Vietnam from the start without using the "Release Nation" mechanic or specific DLC focuses.

[hollow coral]

asking for a french indochina as playable is pretty fair ig

[formal lichen]

Tibet should begin the same as Vietnam

ROC should have to release Tibet in order to play as them

[hollow coral]

de jure tibet was apart of china

but hoi4 represents the world as de facto

[formal lichen]

well if you wanna play with these rules make a disclaimer

Make sure people understand its fictional and that many nations are not accurately depicted

[broken horizon]

They will prob add a giant new puppet for france in asia prob with the new dlc(i hope)

[marsh maple]

anyone ever done faster china than this

[cosmic stag]

i wanna see MBTs,heavy and fleet carriers as new SPs

in a future dlc expansion

[final ivy]

How the hell did you accomplish this?

[marsh maple]

Its ez

[keen totem]

french indochina should be playable from start

burma should also get a focus tree at one point