latest-updates

[keen totem]

this issue will hopefully be fixed with ToaG

at least the region gets some love finally

[brittle venture]

yeah

[keen totem]

whatever happens in the pacific feels so insignificant currently to whatever happens in europe

no matter how the game plays out

[brittle venture]

thats realistic tbf

the only way it could matter if it mattered for US stab/war support

and they decided not to go that route

[keen totem]

in a sense yeah i see it

but at least to america it shouldn't be as neglected

[keen totem]

tbf i dont see how it'd effect american war support/stab all too much

aside maybe from pearl harbor

[atomic kindle]

[dense quest]

I'm hoping we get a new america rework in the near future

[wooden wyvern]

is it really though

like to me the two theatres dont really share much tbh

if anything ive always viewed the two as seperate wars entirely

so the reverse also applies the way i see it

[brittle venture]

yes like, japan didnt see it as important

for the US it was only important because of war support/dislike at home

like if they lost, the people wouldve been really upset

[fading walrus]

Japan didn’t see what as important

[brittle venture]

but the territories objectively hold little to no strategic value

they have no resources of note

its only decent as a "shield" from which someone cant naval invade

sure places like Fiji, new zealand, australia were important

but places like guam, pala'u, hawai'i objectively dont have that much going for them, especially micronesian islands

[fading walrus]

Indonesia, French Indochina too

[wooden wyvern]

trade / supply routes?

[brittle venture]

rubber, oil, massive resources

[wooden wyvern]

wasnt the whole reason usa ended up annexing what they did in the first place?

[brittle venture]

lot of people there too

its not comparable

[fading walrus]

Irl they were important because of strategic location

[wooden wyvern]

like if they lose those they cant do anything about philipines

and they get cut off from australia, china, india etc

[brittle venture]

which was still ehh

its not nearly the same level of importance

[wooden wyvern]

japan was after indonesia

and they need the philipines to get there

[brittle venture]

yes

[wooden wyvern]

and america needs those islands to get to the philipines

[brittle venture]

im mostly talking about pacific islands

not philippines

not indonesia

[wooden wyvern]

yea like im saying america cant possibly fight a war that far away without those islands

like its a thin chain across the ocean

[brittle venture]

thats not how it works in game

but irl yeah

[wooden wyvern]

i agree

[brittle venture]

still not as important as like europe

irl

but a bit more

[wooden wyvern]

well i said before i dont really see how the two are connected

[brittle venture]

in game, imo, its best represented as US war support/stab

and stuff

[wooden wyvern]

there was a war against germany and a war against japan

[brittle venture]

similar to how japan can just peace out now if some islands are taken

[wooden wyvern]

even if they were part of the same alliance they might as well not have been

and it wouldnt change anything

asia isnt important to europe but europe also isnt important to asia

is what im getting at

[brittle venture]

you are playing Hearts of Iron IV a strategy game set in the time of world war two

your main concern is logistics/strategy

for logistics, distributing them across fronts, prioritizing one or another, is important

tactically they are different places, but strategically resources cannot be dedicated equally

[coral drift]

Hmm, i wonder if Indonesia's gameplay would be like the 2nd Russian Civil war. The regional releaseables would broke off in certain stages of the Escalation, and then depending on your leading political group, you can ask them to be your ally, puppeting them, or reannex them.

Also only selected groupings can core the entire Archipelago. The Javanese supremacists and Islamists would have difficulties to integrate states whose population is hostile to them, but the communists and federalists would have an easier time.

(already said this in the forums, btw)

More playing tall paths would be great for the game

Locking "wide" expansions for certain groupings, but in exchange the country would get more developed.

The Philippine Republic can forgoes any dreams of expansion beyond Sabah, but they would get boost for building slots

[coral drift]

This.

I think the British and Americans would care if the Strait of Malacca is in hostile hands.

[keen totem]

wondering if stuff like west papua would rebel or aceh, or is that too far off or unrealistic?

again just wondering, not an expert in indonesian history

[coral drift]

They barely know the Dutch.
In EIR i make it low resistance-low compliance

Like, the Dutch at maximum would go 3 miles from the nearest body of water.

Hence why Boven Digoel is so secure.
There are records of escaped activists getting eaten by crocodile, cannibals, or died to malaria.

Papuan political elites would only formed in 1945 through Van Mook's NICA, but then half of them turned into Indonesian nationalist after an ex-Digoelist was hired as one of the teachers

[keen totem]

interesting

i really should look more into indonesian history 😅

iirc though, didnt islamist and leftist guerilla groups emerge during the national revolution?

maybe if the escalation gets to a point they begin to form and rise up, if it's plausible?

[coral drift]

Book source

English version
"From Foe to Partner to Foe Again: The Strange Alliance of the Dutch Authorities and Digoel Exiles in Australia, 1943–1945" by Harry Poeze

[coral drift]

In 1945, yes, due to Japanese using the Islamists since 1944 as counterbalance to Sukarno's group after failed to initially use Parindra's network in 1942.

For the leftists, this is due to Syahrir's network, built since 1943 under cover with Sukarno and Hatta's protection.

[coral drift]

Book source

[coral drift]

In 1936, however.... Some things needs to be stretched. I imagine it would be like going Mapuche in the Chilean focus tree

[keen totem]

i think in the iranian focus tree, you can form SUMKA earlier as it's fascist alt-historical branch

maybe something similar to that?

[coral drift]

No, I mean, building a proper resistance.

The groupings itself was already there by Jan 1936. Underground PKI, Parindra in the Volksraad, Sarekat Islam which refusing to participate in the parliament.

The difficult one would be PNI whose leaders were exiled to East Indonesia.

Tbh i need more jailing events as a leadup to the rebellion/crackdown. There were several jailings again in 1936 but I forgot to cover it.

[trail elbow]

What to do here?

[fading walrus]

Naval invade from behind

Or Paradrop and attack simultaneously

[daring ocean]

reinforcement meme

[dense apex]

Is there any good way to chesse the Japanese Civil War?

It’s not allowing me to disband my units even before the focus that locks you in

[fresh cedar]

Get supply and make sure you units have full equipment. Then should just be able to battleplan it

[dense apex]

I just had my best Germany game yet

Ahistorical I was able to avoid war the Americans and British careful tango until I reached all Autarky achieved

[drifting star]

U should try RK ++ it has better puppets

[daring ocean]

borders are so ugfly

[dense apex]

Better

[patent lynx]

uk?

[safe willow]

w h a r

[marsh maple]

how

they are at 98%

i choudlve won by early 1937

1937 WIN BABY

[fading walrus]

Holy shit

[marsh maple]

The anarchosgs didnt even have time to rise up btw

[solid gyro]

I no longer can have Sheng Shikai as a field marshal

is it intentional or a bug ?

as when I get the Personal Leadership focus, I only get 30 command points

[solid gyro]

same with Long Yun of Yunnan

[hollow coral]

definitely a bug

they should be starting field marshals personally

[solid gyro]

Absolutely

Someone should report it

I already did in the forum

[solid gyro]

still, there should be bug report and q and a channels here

[hollow coral]

its more effective on the forums

especially the bug reporting tab their

[solid gyro]

can you direct me there

[hollow coral]

its just next to the suggestion tab

[solid gyro]

thank you

what should I tell in the "steps to reproduce" section

[hollow coral]

play as warlord state

make way down to focus "personal leadership"

[solid gyro]

I submitted it

[solid gyro]

I do wonder if the devs wouod fix that bug

The ELSE_IF block in CHI_sea_personal_leadership should look like this (it was missing the limit block):

        ELSE_IF = {
            limit = {
                any_character = {
                    is_country_leader = yes
                    is_corps_commander = yes
                }
            }
            random_character = {
                limit = {
                    is_country_leader = yes
                    is_corps_commander = yes
                }
                promote_leader = yes
                custom_effect_tooltip = CHI_personal_leadership_custom_tt
                hidden_effect = {
                    add_random_trait = { old_guard brilliant_strategist cavalry_officer politically_connected career_officer infantry_officer war_hero }
                }  
            }
        }

[cosmic stag]

we need NEW Special projects like modern MBT tanks

and other modern vehicles

and modern Infantry equipment

like from early cold war era

if they also added new modern afvs ifvs and apcs those would be nice aswell

[civic vine]

You know this is a WW2 game right?

[fresh cedar]

Yet it has NATO and Warsaw pact late game along helicopters and nuclear submarines with Thermonuclear ICBM’s.

Yet somehow MBT and assault rifles is unrealistic even though they actually existed late WW2

[civic vine]

That’s fair lmao sometimes I forget nuclear subs and ICBMs are in this game the game never goes on long enough to even make them.

[fresh cedar]

STG-44 and Centurion existed within the timespan Atleast

Around 1944-1945

[civic vine]

Damn centurions that old? I’m pretty sure the US was still shitting out Sherman’s in 45 lmao

[fresh cedar]

Yeah by 1945 they were getting deployed

[civic vine]

Makes sense, honestly the British tank models suck ass too having a Centurion model at least would be really nice

[fresh cedar]

Matilda, comet, firefly were pretty solid ngl.

Also have we gotten any dev diaries yet?

[civic vine]

Not any diaries recently, only dev corners

The DLC’s still a couple months out I’m assuming since they haven’t put any dev diaries out yet

[fresh cedar]

Hopefully it’s not like late June

[gentle python]

what mods do mp servers use for transferring territory, adding troops & factories

[coral drift]

June 6th would be nice, lel

[charred hare]

Will Mengkukuo be getting a focus tree?

[midnight dove]

no

[twilit jolt]

You're out of you uniform soldier. Where is your Demchugdongrub profile picture?

[hollow lion]

Gotta wait for the Tuvan DLC with 3 throat singing OSTs and trees for Tuva, Mongolia and Mengukuo /s

🔥 🔥 🔥

[brittle venture]

please

[hollow lion]

Im already imagining an easter egg portrait thats the nose of a naval bomber

[fresh cedar]

I’d pay

[charred hare]

But NCNS promised a Mengkukuo tree

[broken horizon]

Tannu tuva needs biggest focus tree ever with wargoal for entire world if it dosent have that then i have no more hooes for any dlcs

(joke)

[stable tusk]

It didn't, it promised China, Commie China, Japan, and Philippines with smaller things to Chinese warlords
It sucks that they don't have content of their own but at least they have something in the Japan tree

[charred hare]

I swear in the dev dairies somewhere it had the Mengkukuo tree unless that was a lie

[polar jasper]

Not true

They said they would give it some spirits but no focuses

[hollow coral]

Shouldve made mengjiang tree instead of philippines honestly

[polar jasper]

I'd rather have the Philippines

Mengjiang can get content with Mongolia

[hollow coral]

They kinda dropped the ball on philippines

[hollow coral]

Can only hope for a mongol dlc

[polar jasper]

Excited for everyone to play Mongolian Empire day 1 and then hate the DLC

Easy $40 for PDX

[hollow coral]

Im pretty sure everyone would play tannu tuva

[polar jasper]

The Tuvan Imperium, ability to core the world with a 35 day focus

[keen totem]

people are gonna beg for a mongolia-centered dlc and then when they actually do it they'll find something to complain about

[keen totem]

7 day focus that lets you annex and core the entire US

[polar jasper]

Well, the dlcs tend to be overpriced

[hollow coral]

I would definitely pay just to play mongolia

[polar jasper]

R56 probably has a good tree

[keen totem]

agreed for sure

[polar jasper]

But that requires playing R56

[hollow coral]

Im a paradox shill so i just buy what they put on the plate

[keen totem]

truthnuke

[keen totem]

i wish they gave more generals to the philippines

sucks how overreliant you have to become on japan or the US to get generals

[hollow coral]

genuinely

I even made a post for more Filipino generals

[keen totem]

i really hope they add more generals

absurd how they only have 2 on start

[polar jasper]

Facts

Even if generic portraits

[hollow coral]

generic might be better

since modders and artists will add them themselves

[brittle venture]

do you really need more

[keen totem]

maybe early game not

but it'd be nice to just have more

[brittle venture]

tbh it sucks not having stuff like brilliant strat

if it was 2 good low level gens itd be fine

[hollow coral]

yeah but they actually need more

they have tons to pull from

its not like afghanistan where you have to actually research to find them

[coral drift]

Just unlock them through event if you are past certain date, and you already completed certain focus

Done that in EIR, and i put Soeharto's unlocking event in 1956 (his 35th birthday) awokawokawok

[hollow coral]

what?

[coral drift]

You can put the Filipino lategame generals in, but don't make them available right away in the start.

[hollow coral]

that doesnt make sense

[coral drift]

You can code their character entries just with name and portraits only
Later down the line you can give them "corps commander" role through event or focus

I would not advocate for this in the first place, if i did not know that this can be done at all, y'know....

[hollow coral]

this idea could be a thing for guerilla leaders such as Ramon magsaysay in game who wasnt in the army til 42

or through focuses such as the exile path

[coral drift]

Figures not in-game:

• Jose De Los Reyes, made Brigadier General in 1937
• Benito N Ebuen, made Brigadier General in 1956
• Leoncio S Tan, made Brigadier General in 1957

[brittle venture]

a lot of this is because people look things up in english tbf

[hollow coral]

he joined at the outbreak of ww2

[coral drift]

Yeah, but then again, the information about two lategame generals i found above are available in English

At least De Los Reyes should be in

[solid gyro]

with the focus tree dlc for Czechoslovakia I do want to see something similar for Romania and Yugoslavia

[polar jasper]

Yugo already had a decent ish rework (that could further be improved to be fair) and Romania had some extra content as well

They would then have more reworks than France

And US, and UK

[solid gyro]

Yeah

I bet it was five years ago

with Battle of the Bosporus

so the main Allied three are the ones lagging behind

and with an allied rework, Egypt should get some content with them getting their independence with British guarentees or aligning with Italy

[hollow coral]

just how would they do egypt though

egypt was invaded by italy

but italy nor egypt ever declared war on each other

italian invasion of egypt was purely fought against british forces

[hollow coral]

lets be honest they are either gonna be split up into multiple dlcs

or they will make a balkan dlc

[solid gyro]

Exactly

[wooden wyvern]

it should be a tag tho and ideally have a focus imo

historical would ironically be the most difficult branch to make for them i agree

its honestly insane jordan and malaysia got added before egypt and indochina

[hollow coral]

definitely agree to that

[solid gyro]

yeah

I think Indochina and Egypt are my top priorities for added factions

French Indochina would get a bit of the Congo or British Raj but in a smaller scale

where you are either a loyal French colony or declare independence

with you either staying united or divided with you being Vietnam under Bao Dai, Dinh Diem or Ho Chi Minh

like you being primarily India after independence

I said align with Italy as in Egypt back in 1936, a lot of nationalists had ties with Mussolini

not sure how a united independent Indochina would be plausible but there was the Indochinese Communist party

[keen totem]

i want indochina to be like palestine in rt56

a potential collapse can happen

north declares independence as viet minh

maybe laos and cambodia can be swayed by france to remain french aligned

[wooden wyvern]

authoritarian one aligned with japan after revolting seems normal enough but idk much about vietnam history

i think johnathan once said smth about a path where you agree to work with free france in exchange for your independance and that could be potential as well

[solid gyro]

that sounds great

I doubt it'll work as a country pack but more like the Czechoslovakia solution

for paying 5 or 6 bucks for a focus tree

[wooden wyvern]

well im hopeful about them giving modders more sway

[solid gyro]

same

[wooden wyvern]

they get to make better focus trees while paradox gets to focus on making actual mechanics

which is something modders cant do to the same extent

[solid gyro]

of course

I do hope the devs collaborate with the modders on this

I am pretty sure you guys know of good ideas

Egypt is also intersting because of the beef between the king and the Arab nationalists

as the King himself was Albanian

[charred hare]

Mengkukuo

[solid gyro]

yeah, Mengkukuo should get the Aussa treatment when it comes to a focus tree

small yet substantial

[green scaffold]

Yugo focus tree is worse than default focus tree it is NOT decent

they have literally nothing on their focus tree

[gritty lava]

The main thing I remember from their focus tree is that two of their paths involve dismantling your country

Which wasn't fun

[hollow coral]

that part is actually pretty good

you get a bunch of puppets which will do industry focuses and then you get can reunite them

[gritty lava]

I suppose
But the fascist path has a thing where you literally just give away parts of your country to the Axis

[green scaffold]

can you? im pretty sure the focus tree make them free eventually not annex them

unless you just mean annex manually

in which case that really isn't worth

ai doesn't prioritize industry focuses so its rng, you're left with no industry for quite a long time getting 30 more factories in 3 years is not better than having industry now

[hollow coral]

the main focus for them makes them puppets

then you get a choice between making them free or reuniting with them

[hollow coral]

this one depends but puppets of croatia, montenegro, bosnia, slovenia and macedonia will go down the industry tree

[hollow coral]

those parts are very much optional

[green scaffold]

what is the mechanic for reuniting? just a focus?

[hollow coral]

mutually exclusive focus path

[elder jackal]

Guys what do you think will be the next BIG hoi4 dlc

[hollow coral]

its the us

Its no debate

[midnight dove]

czechoslovakia dlc is kinda needes bc the current focus tree to it is hella op

new zealand too

[gritty lava]

My guess is either UK or America

[green scaffold]

uk really doesn't need a dlc

or not nearly as much as many other countries

their focus tree is fine

[gritty lava]

Suppose it's down to opinion
Because I don't really like it tbh

[hushed lion]

They will have one together i believe

[gritty lava]

Reworking two majors in one dlc could be a bad move logistically

(Plus it robs Paradox from the opportunity from charging for two dlcs rather than one)

[midnight dove]

lmao

[thick edge]

https://tenor.com/view/sfm-soldier-tf2-meme-american-gif-24728385

[polar jasper]

You should of seen their pre rework one

[worldly jacinth]

Is it true that only defensive nations can only use Desperate Defense now?

[thick edge]

Yes

[worldly jacinth]

I see. I understand that it was rather powerful for everyone to be able to grab it, but wasn't the point of it being added in the first place was for Germany when they are losing? Maybe they could add a separate feature for Germany to be able to take it.

Like when they are losing. Like 25% towards capitulation or something

[gritty horizon]

Itd be awesome if the next update added the ability to queue up research and national focuses

So many times in co op im not doing anything for the next 6 months so id be able to do IRL stuff while not missing out on research days

[hollow coral]

Yeah just suggest that in the forums

[charred hare]

Or if the next update added a Mengkukuo tree

[solid gyro]

yeah I'd want to see that

[cloud folio]

'MURICA

[fading walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/merica-gif-6672966492979109248

[gentle python]

first time ive seen france be smart

[swift granite]

what happened to my Hungary?

[gentle python]

nothing

[fading walrus]

Hot take the USA doesn’t need a monarchy path for a non aligned path

It should be a military dictatorship under MacArthur

[toxic plinth]

American fascist branch sucks, besides the focus tree being so long (all 70 days)

Purely War goals that go to WC, inaccurate historical/political immersion...

and the Confederate larp

[swift granite]

it could be funny to go back to the self proclaimed emperor of America

[fading walrus]

One problem he’s dead in 1936

[swift granite]

maybe his son

[fading walrus]

This

Their should be two fascist USA branches

The Bund which is join the axis

And the silver shirts which is where you make your faction

Also the US communist path should be split into 2 or 3 as well

[swift granite]

maybe a capitalist path with Ford maybe

[fading walrus]

Earl Browder was a Stalinist and should be able to ally the Comintern

Jay Lovestone should be independent/ ally buhkain if the right opposition are in power in the USSR

Or get a war goal on the USSR if Stalin or Trotsky are in power @toxic plinth

Also the communist, fascist and democratic paths should have their own ways of dealing with the Great Depression

[fading walrus]

Ehh I doubt his son had the same ambitions

Cool idea

[swift granite]

there was a plan to coup FDR very early on

[fading walrus]

The business plot yes

That should be the first fascist focus where you recontact the business plot

[swift granite]

and you could choose from the fascist paths, the confederacy path and the ultra capitalist path

[fading walrus]

The CSA path shouldn’t be in the game tbh

None of the people in the focuses really wanted a CSA

[keen totem]

fully agree

[swift granite]

it would be funny tho

[fading walrus]

Pelley the American fascist himself hated it

[keen totem]

and it'd be the most implausible scenario ever to be added if it was a thing

[fading walrus]

Which makes sense considering he was from Massachusetts

[keen totem]

MAYBE it could be a secret path

[fading walrus]

That’s my idea

[keen totem]

like macarthur philippines or buddhist communist japan

[fading walrus]

And also have Patton be the leader of the CSA

[swift granite]

if we have a secret path for that fake Romanov lady and Wojtek

[fading walrus]

Because his grandfather fought for them

[keen totem]

patton shouldn't be availble to communist USA either

[fading walrus]

And nor should MacArthur

[stable tusk]

Norton didn't have kids

[swift granite]

what a shame

[keen totem]

macarthur should be able to be democratically elected asw

[keen totem]

absolutely

[swift granite]

and maybe they could end up in the Phillipines

[keen totem]

the person who proposed carpet nuking north korea to stop a chinese invasion somehow decides to work with communist usa in this game

seems legit

[keen totem]

pretty good idea actually

[swift granite]

or Liberia like in KR

[keen totem]

i think there should be something like this for canada and UK asw

[swift granite]

maybe

[keen totem]

if UK goes communist, canada should be able to house the imperial family

maybe seize british colonies in the americas as well

not sure how plausible it'd be but it'd be fun to play i feel

[quartz gull]

I have to naval invade brazil

then make my way up to canada

fighting EVERYONE on the way

[faint patrol]

I like the idea of this

[keen totem]

i would think maybe just for more interesting gameplay and such maybe there are timed missions to seize british colonies in the americas, and maybe allow for british generals/navy to defect to canada

[faint patrol]

that would be quite intresting to give them a few cruisers and mabye a carrier, perhaps also increase pop as well?

[keen totem]

maybe accepting british advisors and exiles as well

not sure if it'd be the most plausible but i feel it'd make playing communist britain feel more fun

rather then the whole "canada makes democratic faction and declares independence"

but nothing else really changes

maybe australia would also behave differently, either aligning with canada (maybe decisions or something) or maybe australia will draw closer to the US

[faint patrol]

I mean losing a few capitals wouldnt do anything to britian since they'd only have to protect the home islands realistically

[keen totem]

yeah especially since communist britain would go down the decolonization route

[keen totem]

if they did a CSA path at least give it a leader who maybe would've more plausibly led it

macarthur as military dictator of the CSA is the stupidest thing ever

[fading walrus]

It’s even worse when you realize he was proud of the fact his dad fought for the union in the civil war

[keen totem]

just goes to show how desperately the US needs a rework

[celest jetty]

when does the spring sale start

[polar jasper]

Probably around late March early April

[tepid canopy]

Can we give edmonton 1 more vp than calgary

[coral drift]

A more Rooseveltian anti-colonial path would be good

[coral drift]

Eh, Republican Democratic path already has him available for the 1944 Elections

[quasi furnace]

Wtf did they change with british navy? I use to ignore it since the uk navy never did something about naval supremacy, bur why do my ships get damaged so easily. Please tell me the homeland invasion on them is easier

[thick edge]

Kaiserreich 🔥

[coral drift]

Mhm, at least retool the "Dominions breaking up from UK" event chain to be more severe.

A little fix here and there for UK, and it's solid again.

Wallacian America's Freedom Ride, however, that would be good

[fresh cedar]

That actually kinda happens already if you play on historical and go German Empire.

[fresh cedar]

The main change is that you don’t get naval supremacy instantly

[quasi furnace]

Why they do that

[thick edge]

Because it’s stupid cheesing

U can put navy up for 1 Ingame day and now ur ready to make a massive naval invasion on the UK

[quasi furnace]

I mean the attacking uk is hard enough in mainland england

[coral drift]

And with the current system, now both would gradually build up their supremacy points.

[thick edge]

Not at all

[quasi furnace]

Ok how i do it

[coral drift]

Depends
If you send 10 proper divisions to take Newcastle and its surroundings, you can win.

Paradops on Portsmouth is understandably laughable

[coral drift]

Attack them in Northern England

[quasi furnace]

So south invasion is no longer the best way to do it?

[coral drift]

Doable for lategame after you defeated the British Army elsewhere and they have less than 20 divisions

[thick edge]

If u have air/ any actual pushing divisions, they can’t do anything

Just battleplan and they are gone

[quasi furnace]

But for early invasion north? What kind of templates should i use? The video guide told me to make these fast tank units

[coral drift]

Infantry: attacking Newcastle and tiles north and south of it. When your divisions landed, help to secure Newcastle
Tanks: only northern and southern tiles, focus on capturing Carlisle and splitting Britain into two. Only after that you can send the spares to capture Newcastle

For infantry, 9inf1art would do to capture Newcastle

[fresh cedar]

I think invading the UK is meant to be really difficult

[fading walrus]

Because it is realistically speaking

[coral drift]

Yup.
Attacking UK head-on through the Channel in 1936-1941 is just wasting your time

[fading walrus]

And sending ships to the mile down club

[gritty fjord]

Planes should really be able to interdict landing craft when they are landing with high success even if there's not an ongoing naval battle. I guess they can but feels like this should be one of the mechanisms that makes naval invasions tough

[fresh cedar]

Just saw a super valid question on reddit:

What happens if your country leader gets captured in Thunder at our gates? (Some leaders can be generals)

[fading walrus]

I have this exact question too

Unless they have a special rule they have a special rule or something

Like hero units in thrawns revenge @fresh cedar

Like some can come back

If they get killed

[fresh cedar]

Zombie Wotjek

[fading walrus]

I should mention killed in Thawns revenge or fall of the republic clone wars mod basically meant their ship got destroyed in space or they got defeated on the ground

Grevious for example has to be killed 4 times before he dies for good because

https://tenor.com/view/general-grievous-galactic-republic-gif-21430967

[fresh cedar]

That’s a lot of times

I’m curious what will happen in vanilla

[fading walrus]

It’s to represent Grevious’s escapes

[fresh cedar]

I get that, I’m moreso interested in if it will delete country leaders in vanilla 😂

[fading walrus]

Grevious can have 4 capital ships he can command (The Malovlence, Renitor, Invisble hand and a crappy munificent)

In terms of strongest to weakest

[plain vault]

https://tenor.com/view/hoi4-hearts-of-iron-4-looksmax-sigma-sigma-face-gif-232308269668432623

sigma

[midnight dove]

the old hirohito portrait was so sigma

[polar jasper]

Captured: -10% war support

They better make the debuff not completely painful or game ruining

[brittle venture]

10% is a lot...

[polar jasper]

Fine, let's add another 25% pp gain penalty

-10% stab

Having it just be a war support debuff is mild enough

[brittle venture]

-2% stab -3% war support and -5% pp gain

[polar jasper]

If stalin was captured, I think there would be some extreme chaos that wouldn't be that miniscule

[brittle venture]

man i want things to be developed like how spy planes work

do most people know theyre good? no

[polar jasper]

Or we get to see the rare Beriya portrait

[brittle venture]

but its something that can be really good

[polar jasper]

Intel Agency missions being ignored as usual

Raids could have easily been under them

Heck, Gunnerside is the only raid that is an operation

Isnt it technically a nuclear research facility raid

[keen totem]

i'd imagine stalin or mao getting captured in battle would have at least some chaos ensue

[polar jasper]

How nice the opposing side doesn't just immediately kill them, right?

[blazing flint]

Im sure Japan would leave mao alive

Same with stalin and germany

[keen totem]

i'd imagine that this would require so much work to make it work

having a leader being captured and potentially executed seems both interesting but also very much not worth the risk

[gentle python]

i love how if i try to use even 1% of my navy the game crashes

magna europa is truly a bug-less game

[polar jasper]

I definitely agree

I am willing to suspend realism for gameplay

[brittle venture]

lets not. #server-rules 2/4

[keen totem]

i feel though the ai will let it happen a bit too often

is my concern

[earnest pulsar]

Tell em Casey 😉

[daring ocean]

my bad

[vivid elk]

whats with the dlc prices

[hollow coral]

capitalism

[hollow lion]

You pay for early access, they constantly go on sale and higher % the older they are

[brittle venture]

explain time please

[fresh cedar]

Early access to bugs 🥰

[fresh cedar]

I really wonder how they’ll address this.

[hollow lion]

in the code, its really easy to see if a commander is also country leader, so presumably they can just forbid deploying country leaders
Not sure if any commanders get their country leader role mid-game, thatd be an issue with that hypothesis naturally

[green scaffold]

yes

wojtek for example

McArthur

[hollow lion]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/525890897959714819.webp?size=64

of course

[nova smelt]

is it better to do concentrated or dispersed industry?

[neon furnace]

depends

if you play as germany, dispersed is better

if you play as any chill country at start u should do concentrated

[nova smelt]

ok

im greece

[green scaffold]

concentrated industry is always better if u know what ur doing

[fresh cedar]

Some do get it mid game, yes.

[coral drift]

This. Dispersed if you constantly upgrading your equipments once every two years

[brittle venture]

every year actually

shorter with buffs

ig itd be a few years for like afghanistan starting modifiers

[wise oxide]

i fully forgot that we will get czech dlc too

[coral drift]

Haha, yeah, but my nation isn't there.

[wise oxide]

lets hope malaya gets some content

spirits,events and stuff at least

[coral drift]

I meant by Indonesia, it has so much potential if you read the correct books

You can still have many paths with all of them being equally plausible, without wacky stuffs

[wise oxide]

wdym indonesia is in TaoG

[coral drift]

(cough, cough, Mapuche Chile's Amerindian Nation)

[coral drift]

Well, they still have not revealed their contents fully.

Lots of factoids that are popular in the internet that has been actually proven to be false. Let's hope that the devs would not fall to the same trap

[coral drift]

(tbh this is more of a "it is plausible, but it's the wrong person/political party who done it" case)

[wise oxide]

do they both come in Q2?

[coral drift]

Yup, PfoT and TaoG

[wise oxide]

lets go 3 months max

[coral drift]

June 6th would be neat, because it is Sukarno's birthday

[cosmic stag]

i already bought the expansion pass 2

[dapper fjord]

mmmm.. prob only about Pacific WWII warships, not including European warships.. mannn

[fresh cedar]

Super cool peace in our time is coming out early

[lyric coyote]

czech tree really shows its age compared to its neighbours. Im hyped for the tree to be shown

[fresh cedar]

Same

Thought it was coming much later so that’s a pleasant surprise

[gritty lava]

Apparently Slovakia gets one as well

[fresh cedar]

Though that means Thunder at our gates is probably coming late Q2

[lyric coyote]

They swapped the release timeline because for some reason they are making the asia dlc a group project with the dumbest ideas from chat

[fresh cedar]

Someone saw the iSorrow video

[lyric coyote]

Which video? I just see posts on the steam page about dev corners and its questions about expectations for the dlc

[fresh cedar]

Personally I like when they draw inspiration from the community. It’s not like they’re designing the entire game around this. Just a specific dlc

People complain if they don’t do this. And people complain if they do. 🤷‍♂️

[gritty lava]

I always thought the Asia and Oceania gameplay was pretty boring, good that they're focusing on that region now with the last two dlc and TaoG

[lyric coyote]

Im just hating on paradox for being lazy and not doing playtests

[brisk patrol]

is it possible that czechoslovakia could unironically be one of the funnest nations in hoi4 due to it being made by a modder team?

[fresh cedar]

Possibly yeah

[lyric coyote]

Its people from the rt56 team right?

[brisk patrol]

we never see focus trees for nations that get split like yugoslavia (no croatia even though important nation) but even slovakia is getting a focus tree

[brisk patrol]

i wouldnt have a clue man sorry

[fresh cedar]

Gets secret Ukranian tree too

[brisk patrol]

if reichsprotectorate bohemia and moravia gets a focus tree this could potentially be one of the greatest dlcs for versatile content (if the price is fair)

[lyric coyote]

"Created in collaboration with veteran modders Logan ‘Spicy Alfredo’ Calkins, Abbus Fung and Marijn ‘marijn211’ Vroegh" from the steam page

[brisk patrol]

at this point in hoi4s age I'm preferring better content over mechanics more and more slowly

[fresh cedar]

Just want focuses for every country

[lyric coyote]

sounds like hell to implement due to checks if owner has germany dlc

[fresh cedar]

Kinda funny how Israel didn’t get the formable that Palestine and Syria did

[cosmic stag]

we need Heavy carriers

[brisk patrol]

germany historical focus tree is in base game? or is there another problem i didnt think of

[fresh cedar]

Modern Carrier exists

[lyric coyote]

are the reichsprotectorates a base game feature?

[brisk patrol]

im sure that all of germanys focus tree is available, with the exception of alt history content

[cosmic stag]

yes ik

[lyric coyote]

Ok, then i might be yappin

[brisk patrol]

japans new focus tree is in base game too

[lyric coyote]

isnt that the baseline for everything now? Historical trees are in base game but althist is dlc only?

[fresh cedar]

Czech tree will most likely work historical and be chopped ahistorical

[fresh cedar]

I think for majors yeah

[brisk patrol]

Italian Libya, Italian East Africa, French Tunisia & British Egypt 😔

yes i said french tunisia yes i want carthage

[fresh cedar]

It’s interesting no North African countries exist

[brisk patrol]

Egypt not having one is genuinely wild

[fresh cedar]

Tunisia and Algeria should be like the Congo but for France. Just not 80% of the tree locked behind collab content

[fresh cedar]

Yeah I don’t understand it anymore. Originally it’s because it messed up troop deployments

[brisk patrol]

belgian congo before egypt 🫠 🫠

[fresh cedar]

Before Indochina too 😂

Though I think some colonies jut shouldn’t exist for lag reasons

[brisk patrol]

if hoi4 had better troop cap limits it'd easily be solved

[fresh cedar]

I kinda hate troop cap limits because they’re very ahistorical. Like if you could set limits maybe early game similar to naval treaties maybe. But in war they shouldn’t exist

[fading walrus]

Like kaiserreich

[fading walrus]

Old Total war like Rome and medieval does this well

[fresh cedar]

HOI4 doesn’t sadly.

[fading walrus]

Like yes you can have a giant army but it would be a drain on your economy

[fresh cedar]

Just hard limits on divisions/regiments is too restrictive

[fading walrus]

This is why I don’t like Rome 2

[brisk patrol]

genuinely there shouldnt be any reason for 9 troops on a single tile across a whole frontline come 1944

[cosmic falcon]

I wonder why TAOG was switched for PFOT.

[fresh cedar]

Idk USA and Soviets had massive armies irl, of like 15+ mil

[fading walrus]

USA has the 90 divisions plan though

[brisk patrol]

kaiserreich, but its our historical world instead when

[fading walrus]

USA wanted to have 215 divisions originally

[thick edge]

Some people also hate the rt56 mod

[spare bobcat]

rt56 is pretty decent

[fading walrus]

Hey Christigpa

[fresh cedar]

Yeah based off a real life thing. But divisions aren’t as cut and dry irl as they are in game. They don’t tend to be as concentrated

[lyric coyote]

with a release time for april-june for the next dlc they just werent anywhere near ready considering they are asking for feedback on very basic stuff on the dev diaries

[fading walrus]

True

[brisk patrol]

I dont mind rt56 I just want the historical mode to work, it doesn't.

but its been awhile since I played rt56, it pretty much nurtured me my first 300-400 hours of playing the game

[cosmic falcon]

I wonder what the new Czechoslovak focus tree will look like.

[brisk patrol]

content for czechoslovakia, Czechia and Slovakia split, and im guessing Bohemian Empire and a Communist path

[fresh cedar]

Hopefully has HRE content, or some type of unique formable

[brisk patrol]

Would be nice actually!

[fresh cedar]

Imagine an HRE tree where instead of one unified HRE it actually just breaks up countries similar to the Napoleon French path

[brisk patrol]

thatd be interesting actually

[thick edge]

U know how you can consolidate divisions

[brisk patrol]

but imagine having a giant glorious yellow colour blob with those perfect HRE borders everything cored

[thick edge]

Should we be able to do the opposite

[coral drift]

Well, now with more time, I hope the devs would fix more bugs and improve more things.
The Indies states needs cleaner afdeeling and province borders

[fresh cedar]

Would be cool. Just think it would be nice to have something slightly different for the HRE since Austria and Germany can already form that

[fresh cedar]

To what end? I get consolidating is perfectly combining equipment for 2 weak divisions

[lyric coyote]

Paradox loves adding new states but not updating formables and cores

[hollow lion]

✅

[fresh cedar]

For real, still have a few formables missing cores

[coral drift]

I know their flaws, but please have faith

[thick edge]

Like maybe a division but it’s 2 divs with half equipment

But that could probably be used to trains divs rlly fast

Since reinforcement

[fresh cedar]

Would definitely break training times

I’d hate that in MP actually 😭

[coral drift]

Especially when they are reworking the Southeast Asian region, I concur the old SEA formables would not miss their new states

[fresh cedar]

Would get cheesed so hard

Divisions would basically super multiply it would be bad

[fresh cedar]

I’d legit buy a dlc that just adds unique formables to specific trees

Like Napoleonic France should get more cores. If not Europe, then Napoleonic territories

[coral drift]

Mhm
And tied to certain political groups, especially when said group were the only ones who advocated for it

Sukarno forming Majapahit? Laughable

(still glad that it get renamed to Nusantara 🥰)

[fresh cedar]

Imagine if the US goes into a civil war then the CSA wins, then the US navy takes over Hawaii and breaks off then can core the pacific

[coral drift]

By what? Inviting the former Hawaiian Royal Family in the government?

[fresh cedar]

Yeah we need more flavor. The did recently add some to China

[fresh cedar]

Yeah like they align to the Hawaiian monarchy

[coral drift]

Would not mind if the devs can made it in in a plausible way

[coral drift]

Mhm
Like, i'm not saying that no one advocated for a revival for Majapahit by 1940, but i say that they need to put the correct people in charge first.

[fresh cedar]

I just hope they tell us soon if captured leaders as doc commanders will just remove from being your country leader

[fresh cedar]

I feel like they will

[coral drift]

Oh, i do have a faith they can get it right. I've listed many books in the forums already

[fresh cedar]

It’s funny how some people hate that the community is contributing. But I feel like in relation to specific countries it helps a lot.

[coral drift]

(yes, I can't change my username there....)

[fresh cedar]

Like community helping content for specific countries is good. For features maybe bad

[coral drift]

Again, trolls going to be trolls.

And I do have my disagreements towards the Army HQ feature because it is unlike HoI3's

But at least i'm going to be reasonable with my words.
(please stretch the industry tech level, even if it means lowering the gains from the previous levels)

[fresh cedar]

I don’t think it’s trolling. Just the community is split on it

[lyric coyote]

Its just lousy to get the community to do the research for you.

[coral drift]

Well, i already went "you devs can read these books and make your own contents from that" in the forums

[lyric coyote]

Im 200% sure they had a researcher working for them

[fresh cedar]

The way I see it is that people from specific countries will know more about their history. So paradox is using them as a resource for an insider perspective

[coral drift]

It's not like they are 100% copying focus tree from mods

And i would be happy if they respect history, as i did in my mod.

That is not plagiarism

[lyric coyote]

Paradox gets called out for copying focus trees if they reference the same historical events.

[gritty lava]

It can be bad depending on who you listen to
The community doesn't always have the best or most creative ideas in the world
And you fundementally can't please everyone, and since people seem very split on what type of focus trees they like, it can end badly
I'm not saying it'll end badly, nor that it's a bad idea, I'm just a bit worried that the trees that come out of this are either boring as hell or absolute insanity

[coral drift]

Ahahaha

Well, like i have said before, some "insane paths" would be insane if they got the wrong political group.

If it can be done plausibly, then all the better

[gritty lava]

Part of me is hoping that they're delaying it to fit Malaya and New Zealand into the dlc as well

As unlikely as that is

[coral drift]

Democracies playing tall instead of wide can be fun too
Playing wide should've been made more difficult

[lyric coyote]

Is there really a thing like playing wide or tall in hoi4?

[coral drift]

Australia, Turkey, and New Zealand has solid "playing tall" paths

Also non-GtD Germany

[elfin sierra]

Is unit art AI generated too?

[hollow lion]

"too"?

[runic bronze]

Heard about the

Heard about the capture generals thing

Pls donttt do that

[runic bronze]

?

[stable tusk]

Playing tall is building up what you already have, playing wide is expanding as fast as you can
I think, take this with a grain of salt

[runic bronze]

Idk i feel like general communist paths are too like

Idk

I feel like in non-stalinist paths you should at least have the option to be decentralist (have puppets)

And like

Be able to boost your puppets

[coral drift]

Absolutely.
Especially if the communist movement in a country seeks to help other communists in the neighboring countries gain power.

I really thought that the Japanese ruralist communist path would be like that

[keen totem]

i personally see no issue with people from the countries that are set to get expansions looking to contribute

naturally i feel people from their own country know more about their history

getting at least some help from the community i feel is only a positive thing

[runic bronze]

Real

Can we do communism without doing imperialism

Like maybe maybe we dont wanna do some marxist leninist stuff and make a country we'd wanna live in

The closest thing we have to that is anarchist spain but spain sucks and is dog water

[fading walrus]

in a game about expanding and conquering your neighbors

[runic bronze]

Yeah fair💔

But what about democracy smh my head

[fading walrus]

playing tall works in EU4

but thats because EU4 is very different

[runic bronze]

Idk i feel like kaiserreich handles it well

You send vols to other country

Win their wars

And then you get their help

They might join your faction

You can trade with them for resources

[fading walrus]

problem is its the hoi4 ai which is well not the brightest

[runic bronze]

It doesnt come off as imperialism just helping your comrades and exporting the revolution like marxy pooh wanted

[fading walrus]

yeah it would be cool if only the hoi4 ai knew what it was doing

[runic bronze]

"Hey uhh we a communist government, big country can you help?"
"I gotchu" (sends them guns vols avisors and whatever)

Vs vanilla: i am liberate you. Pls do not resist :3 you will like communist government better than old government anyways.

Idk im judging by spartacus and japan paths

Even the non-stalinist paths come across as being a benevolent overlord to other countries tbh

Its fun to play as i admit

But like

Idkk💔

[fading walrus]

TBH most alt history hoi4 paths aren't realistic in the slightest

only the historical ones are realistic

[runic bronze]

History isnt very realistic

[fading walrus]

true but would India rally behind the Mughal dynasty which hasn't been relevent since the early 1700's

[runic bronze]

How did one austrian guy dying spark two world wars?

Servian

Serbian

Wait

What nationality were they

Was the

[fading walrus]

Bosnian I think

because Serbia wanted to make Yugoslavia

[runic bronze]

The like duke that got assassinated pre-ww1

Franz ferdinand

[fading walrus]

which was basically austria hungary 2.0

Franz Fredinand was Austrian

[keen totem]

the hoi4 ai needs an overhaul this is probably the most basic statement ever said but whatever

[fading walrus]

in the meantime we have sheeps mod

[keen totem]

there should at least be a swight tweak when it comes to diplomacy

[runic bronze]

Idk the issue with non nation-state governments is they usually centralize around one nationality and it sucks

[keen totem]

diplomacy was also a heavy factor of the build-up to WW2

and it barely matters

in hoi4

only "diplomacy" is improv relations to force the braindead ai to give over free land

[fading walrus]

EU4 meanwhile

[runic bronze]

Yeah true

[fading walrus]

in my Savoy game I befriended Austria and France to help me in my wars to unite Italy

[keen totem]

i havent played much EU

[runic bronze]

Idk it feels like winning hoi4 doesnt depend on how good the player is but how bad the player isnt

[keen totem]

i've mostly played HOI and a bit of Vic

[fading walrus]

I even called them in to help me win

[keen totem]

so i dont know too much about how EU's systems work

[runic bronze]

But pvp is too much of a skill level jump

[keen totem]

hoi4 very much doesnt need an economy system though, it's a war game after all

[fading walrus]

not the that the eu4 ai is the brightest but its basically what comes down to who has the biggest army

[keen totem]

the politics are fine enough

i just really want tweaked diplomacy

[fading walrus]

however EU4 certanily needs it

[runic bronze]

Idk i dont think of it as a wargame

[keen totem]

i mean the whole premise of the game is to go to war to conquer stuff

[runic bronze]

I think of hoi4 as a wargame the same way D&D is a wargame

[runic bronze]

Nahh its a ww2 game

It sells on "oh what if x country did this during ww2"

[keen totem]

that's a fair way of looking at it

[runic bronze]

The "oh conquer things" gameplay loop only works for non-alligned and fascist governments

[keen totem]

not sure how many people agree with this statement but i almost always find historical paths completely boring

if i had to guess in my 1000 hours of hoi4, maybe less then 50 are historical playthroughs

[keen totem]

this is why i think we need diplomacy as well

[runic bronze]

Communist governments are either about "liberating the international proletariat" (stalinist imperialism) or "liberate the international proletariat" (some offshoot communist larp)

[keen totem]

the molotov-ribbentrop pact for example

such major consequences for eastern europe

[fading walrus]

here is the starting map in eu4

[keen totem]

and yet it's just representated as a singular event

[runic bronze]

Idkkk its either talked about too much or too little

[keen totem]

yeah

[runic bronze]

No communists and fascists hate each other

Yes joseph stalin lowkey collaborated with hitler

[keen totem]

communist paths are some of the most boring in the game

your two choices are "suck off moscow" or "spread our version of the revolution"

[runic bronze]

Yeah thats exactly what ive been complaining about

[keen totem]

there's no real difference in communist paths which is what sucks

"conquer this and establish your own version of the USSR"

[runic bronze]

Idk the issue is that

Yes

[keen totem]

only real unique communist path is that ethiopia can go anarcho-communism

iirc

[runic bronze]

The non-alligned paths (well most of them) are unapologetically pragmatic

And it works

Because thats what they do irl

[keen totem]

monarchism, military dictatorships and other stuff

like finland's more conservative democracy

[runic bronze]

The fascist paths are warmongering and ultranationalist

[keen totem]

it all works under non-aligned

[runic bronze]

That lines up

[keen totem]

makes perfect sense

[runic bronze]

Thats how fascism works

[keen totem]

i wish democracy wasnt hardlocked

into making you larp as the "good guy"

[runic bronze]

Democracy puts gears in your plans by making gurantees

[keen totem]

there is ZERO reason as to why democracies cant justify

without world tension

maybe some of them

it makes sense

[runic bronze]

They dont want war

In theory, democratic countries should be against war

[keen totem]

theory and practice are two very different things

[runic bronze]

War leads to conscription

[keen totem]

for some countries i can see it

like early-game US maybe

isolationist

i think it'd be better represented via national spirits and whatnot

lowering and raising the amount of wt needed to justify

but id imagine people have their own thoughts

[fading walrus]

in EU4 I can peaceout a nation whenever I feel like it

as long as the ai accepts

[keen totem]

hoi4 peace deals need a HEAVY rework

[fading walrus]

however doing this prematurely ruins your relationship with your allies

[keen totem]

limited wars (like they said they'll do for siam) are a nice temporary solution

but it's not great

like what if you want just a little bit more

i think maybe something similar like how they did with the faction theatres

[runic bronze]

Idk youre supposed to play world police as democracies

[keen totem]

like maybe if you lose too much ground in a theatre you should be able to white peace

[keen totem]

i really hope the US is the next big dlc

[runic bronze]

I feel like democratic countries should be able to do a lot of lot of diplomacy

Easily make factions

[keen totem]

the US should have

multiple routes to take

[runic bronze]

Non aggression pacts

[keen totem]

foreign policy wise

the us i feel should have the most complex foreign policy tree

[runic bronze]

Strength through unity not through conquest

[keen totem]

well "complex"

just

more choice

like maybe remaining isolationist, pushing towards a european or asian democratic alliance, or being more american-centered interventionalist

[fading walrus]

well there is one democracy path I do like...

Democratic King Italy

[keen totem]

i like it

i really like germany's democratic path

and japan's new one too

germany especially i like it has different options

for foreign policy

[runic bronze]

I feel like big countries should get more of a reason to be democratic

And should either get to choose between being lowkey imperialist, isolationalist, or just do aid and whatnot

But yeah i feel like democratic countries need factions to be strong

[keen totem]

i do agree democracies should prioritize maybe more

peaceful expansion via factions

and diplomacy

but as a wild example we saw the US intervene in latin america in the 1920s and 30s to secure their control and influence in central america and whatnot

[runic bronze]

We?

[keen totem]

i just mean

historically speaking

[runic bronze]

Oh

[keen totem]

the US should be able to at least

interfere with other american nations

should they go non-democratic

[runic bronze]

Idk i feel like me complaining about communism in hoi4 is deeply political

[green scaffold]

it makes even less sense that democracies can't increase conscription out of war

[runic bronze]

But idk

[green scaffold]

even if they're being justified on or something

[runic bronze]

Conscription isnt democratic

The most democratic you can make conscription is democratic centralism

[green scaffold]

ah yes, democratic countries only start to build an army after they're being invaded

[green scaffold]

i can count to you multiple democratic countries with service by requirement

[keen totem]

instead of hard locking it to war they should make it hit your stability and war support drastically then

would be a better solution

[runic bronze]

They arent very democratic then

Even uhh

[keen totem]

and war would do the opposite for democracies, being at war makes it easier to conscript

[runic bronze]

Eugene debs (?) Knew it wasnt very democratic

[keen totem]

there are many european countries even now that have required service

iirc

[green scaffold]

yup

[runic bronze]

Not very democratic of them

I mean i understand if youre getting invaded

[green scaffold]

it literally is democratic

[runic bronze]

How😭

[green scaffold]

you have a threat on your border. be it nazi Germany, Russia, or whatever. you build an army. people need to serve like they need to pay taxes

you don't wait to get invaded

and then build an army

[runic bronze]

Reminds me of vietnam

[green scaffold]

that's not how the world works

if that's how democracy worked, it wouldn't exist

[runic bronze]

You know that one time where they wouldnt let the us military touch this one part of viernam cause they had french rubber companies rhere?

[green scaffold]

what does that have to do with it

[runic bronze]

Sometimes countries prioritize stuff over human lives

I dont think giving up a part of your income is equal to potentially dying

[keen totem]

the US used the draft to bring more people into the army, and people protested against it

[green scaffold]

not building an army is prioritizing other stuff over human lives

[runic bronze]

Yeah but like

[keen totem]

and you could debate that the US was pretty decently democratic during this era

[runic bronze]

War is organized killing

[runic bronze]

Ehh idkk

It was vietnam

South vietnam wasnt even pretty democratic

[keen totem]

what does that have to do with anything though?

[runic bronze]

And uhh

[runic bronze]

Vietnam era

For the us

Didnt they like kill civillians over protesting ig idk

[keen totem]

the US was a democracy for nearly all of its existence doesnt mean they stuck 100% to democratic principles

[green scaffold]

you don't build an army with the purpose of going to war, you build an army because if you don't, your neighbor will invade and conquer you and all that it includes

[runic bronze]

My home state even has a massacre

[green scaffold]

you build an army for deterrence and for protection

[runic bronze]

If youre belgium i can see that but if youre a big or powerful country then like

You have nukeeess
Idk it was probably true back then tho

[green scaffold]

i mean we're talking in a world where nazi Germany exist

and nukes is certainly a worse choice than building an army 💀

[runic bronze]

Yeah id swallow all my pacifism if it meant fighting nazi germany

Wouldnt call myself a pacifist

Idk i feel like ww1 was an imperialist war but in ww2 the axis was just that bad to where you gotta side with the allies

Allies werent the good guys but the allies werent the bad guys

The axis was the bad guys

[green scaffold]

the allies were the less bad guys

[runic bronze]

Yeah

[keen totem]

thats why i think replace the democratic locks on raising conscription with a national spirit

example being the UK

appeasement mentality

it'd be harder to get them to go to war

[green scaffold]

they already have that

its just very small

[runic bronze]

Idk democracies should make it harder for everyone to go to war

[green scaffold]

and the main lock is conscription law

[runic bronze]

Idk uk guranteeing austria when im spartacus is exactly how a democracy is meant to be played

[green scaffold]

france has "victors of the great war"

Belgium also has some spirit

basically everyone do

[runic bronze]

real

[green scaffold]

but like, Poland should not have conscription law locked

[runic bronze]

idk im currently messing around with my launcher

because it wont let me play hoi4

[green scaffold]

conscription law is also already locked behind war support

so

[keen totem]

then make it more

[green scaffold]

it shouldn't be also locked behind being at war

[green scaffold]

yeah

[keen totem]

and this is enough

its bs how non-aligned and democratic countries are hard locked

to going above i think its limited

HAVING to be at war is just a stupid requirement

the saying "peace through strength" doesnt exist for no reason

[runic bronze]

idk i feel like too many democracies devolve into imperialism

[green scaffold]

i mean

look at the map of colonialism im that year

how much of it was by democracies?

[runic bronze]

?

[green scaffold]

hint: almost all of it

[runic bronze]

"my?"

[green scaffold]

*by

edited and typoed again lmao

[runic bronze]

fascism is no better fascists did hooorrible things in africa ngl

obv obv

and they'll brag about that if you tell them that

[green scaffold]

of course fascism is worse

[runic bronze]

and uhh

idk i feel like people focus too much on marxist-leninism when they hear "communism"

[green scaffold]

but democracy != good

[runic bronze]

like ngl does syndicalism count as a form of communism or is it just like an off-shoot of socialism 😭

i'd say syndicalism is communist

[keen totem]

id say its somewhere in between maybe?

[runic bronze]

idk its too socialist for me to call it socialism and like

ehh i guess it counts

it doesnt say anything about commodity production

[plain oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/impeachment-love-democracy-i-love-democracy-gif-15723806

[runic bronze]

Democracy is too authoriatarian for my taste

[halcyon scaffold]

he iS NOT

[coral drift]

Not every Indonesian independence activists wanted that.

[coral drift]

I already forgoes "realistic" a long time ago and used "plausible" instead

[coral drift]

True
"You're telling me that the exiled anticolonial leader who also criticizes Japan would do this?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZeuQ1xR_Fw

[coral drift]

Germany really needs a SPD-led Republic path

[keen totem]

yeah kind of wish you werent forced into constitutional monarchy sometimes

full republic would've been cool

[coral drift]

Can't avoid it. But in general, the benefits and drawbacks for each paths can be retooled more.
Communism needs to have more slight economic debuffs to represent its orientation to equalize the playing field for everyone in exchange of more stability

[coral drift]

Mhm
Oh, btw, since you're cool, i think you would be happy if there is a Rooseveltian anticolonial path when USA gets reworked.
Even a chance of President Wallace path.

[coral drift]

Ahahaha, in actuality even pre-1949 Indonesian communists who never goes to Europe fits more into this category.
They barely knows that Bakunin was kicked from the 2nd International and just assuming that communism means "sama rata sama rasa (equal belongings, equal feelings)" ranging from Krotpokin to Stalin

[keen totem]

makes sense

[stable tusk]

President Wallace would be interesting, main reason he was scrapped as FDR's VP was because the party was concerned with his pro Soviet language
He was also very anti Jim Crow which led to eggs and tomatoes being thrown at him when he was campaigning in the south

[coral drift]

Yeah. If the American rightists thought that FDR is a leftist, then Wallace is a communist

[stable tusk]

He was compared to the commies a lot

[keen totem]

wallace presidency path sounds really funny

i really hope we can get more freedom with american presidents

[coral drift]

Or even Wilkie presidency where he can get FDR as his principal advisor

Dude is the poster face for "Liberal Republicans" and "The Party of Lincoln"

[lofty heron]

IIRC there was actually a plan for FDR and Wilkie to form their own third party and run together on a joint ticket but it got leaked to the press early and they had to cancel it

[coral drift]

That would be earth-shaking nowadays

[runic bronze]

Idkk i feel like roosevelt was colonial

[coral drift]

He wanted the French, Dutch, and British to decolonize

[runic bronze]

Monroe doctrine💔

That shit colonial as hell

[coral drift]

He would've overthrown Trujillo, Hernandez, and Benavides if he is colonial-minded

[runic bronze]

Idkk i dont like monroe doctrine

And plus roosevelt is better as a democratic path

[coral drift]

I did not stated otherwise

(about possibilities of FDR becomes other than democratic)

[runic bronze]

idk i feel like the us struggles to critique other countries doing bad things cause like. its the us.

[cosmic stag]

hello yalls

[coral drift]

Oh yeah
But a FDR/Wilkie/Wallace path when they ended Jim Crow, moving Filipino independence earlier, and then going into a decolonization spree would be nice.

"America that lives up to its ideals"

(although that would be marred with low-stability events lol 😆)

The reactionaries was a big threat to FDR

[runic bronze]

real

lowkey you should have the option to like

during this

either you go to war with the south or you can prevent it somehow

like if you have enough divisions and put them in key places like south carolina texas georgia and florida and tennasse and whantot they'll back down

you know when the national guard escorted black student into a non-segregated school

would be peak if it happened in 1938

idk if theres communist us it should either have two paths

probably something adjacent to tfr

either uhh

you know that one guy who got kicked out of the cpusa by stalin for suggesting merging with the democrats?

or just do landback stuff

[coral drift]

What is tfr, i concur?

[runic bronze]

The fire rises

Idkk i want some domestic decolonization for the us

Maybe some reperations for mexico

[coral drift]

No, thanks

[runic bronze]

Fajr

That mod is like

[coral drift]

Like, do it with a more plausible way
We did not need 2nd "Silk Road Empire" mess

[runic bronze]

Fair

Idk i feel like the annex soviets is crazy

But its like

Idkk

Cause the us on its own is too reliant on its scaling factor

I love scaling countries but they usually get messed up by the ai

[elder jackal]

When new dlc coming out?

[elder jackal]

What is warships of the pacific?

[stable tusk]

Just some ship 3D models

Kinda like the tank and plane 3D models they released in the past

[elder jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-19030596

[elder jackal]

What do they mean with Quatal 2

[stable tusk]

Quarter 1 is January -> March
Quarter 2 is April -> June
Quarter 3 is July -> September
Quarter 4 is October -> December

[elder jackal]

Nice damn

2 dlcs in 3 months