latest-updates

[fresh cedar]

Yeah jinx, what do you owe me

[meager dragon]

GOT was supposed to be the DLC that finally "brings back" HOI4 and drive engagement and sales and be a labour of love for the fans, and now we have to suck it up and eat the scraps?

[fresh cedar]

Genuinely what was added for free. Idk bc I bought preorder

[meager dragon]

navy rework

and coal

whoa, coal!!!11!!1!!1§!1§ coal guys!:!!1!!!1!!1!!!1§§§1!!!1§!!!!!

[fresh cedar]

Not doctrine?

[meager dragon]

oh yeah doctrine

[fresh cedar]

Look how they massacred my anarchist boy 🙁

+45% energy usage anarchism

Near Total mob

Fml

[fresh cedar]

Agreed doctrines should’ve been

[meager dragon]

doctrines are base, yes

I forgor

[fresh cedar]

I meant factions 😂

[meager dragon]

oh okay lol

[fresh cedar]

Just stopped my 80th Japanese naval invasion as China my bad

Cooked my brain

[fresh cedar]

Which factions actually got content

Apart from allies, axis, cominterm, US commonwealth

[meager dragon]

historical ones and most formed by focuses iirc?

[fading walrus]

Yeah I dropped hoi4 after this

[meager dragon]

fair enough

[fading walrus]

I’m playing total war medieval 2 alot rn

Anything wrong with this image?

[pastel flume]

I mean people are allowed to criticize a game they play and still play it

[coral drift]

The forums are still down?

Anyway, i watched someone playing Sinkiang and wanted to do the Sino-Turkic People's Republic formable and it ended up with him lacking -6000 coals

Only the fascists got the RKs

The 2D artist drawn too many portraits for this DLC, it seems

[stable tusk]

Kristibbs 🔥

[near violet]

Is it just me that cant get the 5th slot in division designer after the update?

[warm plover]

What’s the meta template for china-japan war as japan?

[brittle venture]

you dont have that much xp or resources?

just put like 3 factories on artillery day 1, remove train, maybe truck, plane and tank lines and put it on inf equipment

having puppets like palau will also help in getting mils

[warm plover]

just about to start a monarchist japan game and wondering what’s the best template

[brittle venture]

just try stuff out with the resources available

its a good lesson in general hoi gameplay

[warm plover]

I usually do 7/2’s but i’m not sure they’re the best for the china war dud to how over expanded the frontlines are

[brittle venture]

you will fight in certain terrain under certain supy conditions

you need to make an adequate army with limited xp + mil IC

[warm plover]

I was thinking a 6 block of inf with support art & engineering

[brittle venture]

you cant go small units because they suck at pushing but it doesnt matter since you wont fill combat width

engineers are really expensive

so i wouldnt do it

especially because it doesnt help in hills and mountains

[warm plover]

that’s a good point, how’d you feel abt the 6 block of inf?

[brittle venture]

good for defending

[warm plover]

after doing a bit of thinking i’m gonna go with 6/1’s ty

[cloud tusk]

I'm not joking, you can win China war with the starting templates the game gives you

Pretty fast aswell

Also I've noticed the USA lend-leasing me as Japan sometimes in 1940, which is very strange considering they also embargoed me

[coral drift]

Huh, still can't comment in the Plaza

@soft swallow, just asking. Is the site being put under maintenance?

[soft swallow]

It looks like the pdx forums are having a bad day and we're trying to get it resolved.

[hushed lion]

I don't even know how, I did the same thing and only in late game did I have issues with coal, and even then thr deficit was only about 50

[crimson tartan]

i wonder how many book do hoi4 devs reading while making average dlc

that's for vicky 3

[brittle venture]

yeah but 1937 cap is tricky

[brittle venture]

i mean hoi4 just has so much balance and unique country gameplay compared to vic imo

its a whole different game ofc

[near violet]

Is it just me that cant get the 5th slot in division designer after the update?

[brittle venture]

you need enough doctrine

[prisma wing]

You need to achieve sub doctrine

[dense gale]

u prob wont cap in 37

but by mid 38 is pretty easy

[brittle venture]

you can iirc

[coral drift]

Thanks

[coral drift]

Tbh it would be easy for major countries

But if you wanted to find anything about Partai Indonesia Raya or Partai Sarekat Islam Indonesia, it would be hard.

[vast shore]

Probably anything with logistics in them lmao

[brittle venture]

no

you dont have the MIC for that

[vast shore]

You still need logistics

[thick edge]

I’m yet to even use logistics ever

I mean u don’t need them

It helps

[vast shore]

[brittle venture]

you have trucks?

motorize the supply

[dense gale]

capping in 37 means a 5 month long war

i just dont think u can

[urban wraith]

still waiting for research queue update. day 493

[pale egret]

I've been running various test right now with AI navy, the result show that AI navy is completely bugged

[limber frigate]

No it’s not, I did it really easily and you know I suck

Chinese divs are butter and you just need to fill your stock piles and then you can just go

[prime dock]

Did the latest update remove micro? I saw a bunch of reviews on NCNS that said micro isn’t here anymore

[brittle venture]

you need full collabs

[barren tusk]

is that error admin faults?

some mods i am trying to play with pop up this message

[fresh cedar]

Paradox, coal is fine. Noobs just don’t understand it. What isn’t fine is how Anarchism gets +45% energy usage. This makes the entirety of HOI4 unplayable for all and must be addressed ASAP 😔

(Sarcasm but pls tune slightly better)

[edgy walrus]

Talking about things to improve and fix, please, address this: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/add-the-new-warlord-countries-to-the-base-game-for-people-who-dont-own-the-dlc.1877547/

[silent prism]

Maybe the mod wasn't updated yet?

[barren tusk]

Union y libertad mod is updates (it doesn't appear triangle warning)

[dense gale]

oh as japan capping china

yea

thats easy af now

i htought u meant china peacing out japan

[half wadi]

you might have to change the game version to play the mods

[harsh hull]

It IS a little weird they didn't put the new warlords in the base game, isn't it?

I mean, it's fair enough - it's already pure RNG whether or not the warlords submit to you as ROC/PRC without adding 5 more warlord tags to the mix

But I feel like it's just going to make the region harder than it needs to be to maintain going forward

[barren tusk]

i opened you md

[brittle venture]

no

tho you could just play as prc returned territories fr

[hushed lion]

I like how malleable factions are now

[rocky escarp]

Coal is fine (maybe) but energy is not, judging by the points made about Romania's oil-fuelled industry

I wouldn't really know myself about how Romania powered itself in the 1930s-40s period though

[solid gyro]

hoi5 update is about a decade away until ww3 about half a decade or so decade or less or so 🤔 🤷 😌 😏 hoi5 just might be the most realistic strategy game to ever created we won't be able to play ww3 , because we'll be the ones fighting we're looking to the future for games but we're only gonna find ww3 how unfortunate hoi5 might redeem itself but its still.infested with femboys the hoi5 ww3 history changes will be very insane considering the world today and how complicated geop0ltic8s. if the femboys die in ww3, only the military strategists who were strong enough to survive e ww3 will be playing hoi5, this means we will get the most masteful startgeies yet, greatly outclassed the hoi4 previously .Just image Russia China vs nato coming to gaming in hoi5 or USA vs entire eastern world

[rocky escarp]

The most strategic minds of humanity are more likely to be conscripted and randomly killed in combat than having their potential recognised and kept from the frontline

[thick edge]

Truth

[polar bronze]

was Thubten Kunphela a fascist?

[wise oxide]

japan in 1939 start date

[wispy socket]

Is there any point in the doctrine bonuses in most focus trees when you only need to use XP five times at most to unlock the trees, and mastery takes over after?

[drowsy jetty]

when a scientist reaches lvl 5

[lofty heron]

every time AI Japan goes shogun, they never invade China for me. not sure if that's intentional

just got The Coast Is Clear achievement for free cus of it lol

[hushed lion]

It is as far as I know cause japan is meant to strike north first in that path

[grim yew]

I think I just encountered a new bug with the new faction system. I played as the German Empire, and each time I create a new faction (Including Mitteleuropa Focus), it costs me 10% base stability, and each time I exit and reload my save, my base stability decreases by 5% until it reaches 0%. So, I test by disabling all mods (There are all music and visual mods, but anyway.) and now testing on UK, I dismantle Allies and create a new faction and yes, it still costs me 10% base stability, but each time I dismantle it, I magically gain 500K Free Man power.

Things I already tried

1. Reinstalling (Not working)
2. Disable all mods (Not working)
3. Delete the entire Hoi4 Folder and verify the game (Not working)
4. Disable NCNS (work, duh. but for what?)

Has anyone also encountered this bug? Since I see no post about this.

[silent prism]

Can someone help me out with the new influence mechanic in the faction?

Was playing ussr. Mongolia and Tannu-Tuva have like 2500 influence, whilst I 600. Why? What do I need to do?

[unreal beacon]

why did you dox me man? not cool dude

me when I lie

[fresh cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-14606336510470090091

[fresh cedar]

It’s true, you occasionally make a positive statement 😂

[unreal beacon]

I play other games too dawg

[fresh cedar]

Ain’t no way

HOI4 main for sure

[unreal beacon]

sure

but your argument is stupid anyway

Look guys! this guy doesn't like his government, but he still lives in his country?

[fading walrus]

Can you two take this to dm’s

[fresh cedar]

HOI4 isn’t a country, we have a choice. 😭

[unreal beacon]

why?

[fresh cedar]

If you relate it to a country you hate and you have no choice over. Then I pity that your career hinges on something you hate and hope you find positive change.

Either through branching out into other games or streaming etc.

[fading walrus]

It would just be better on there to discuss yet another disappointment of a dlc

[unreal beacon]

@fresh cedar

I love steam

and messages never getting delivered

Nothing ever delivers.

[unreal beacon]

naahhh

[fresh cedar]

I’m just like why put so much energy into something you dislike? It just seems like over the years you’ve enjoyed it less

[unreal beacon]

because I love it and I want it to be good again

[fresh cedar]

I get every game has its lifecycle tbh. Especially among consumers and players

[fading walrus]

Okay then I’m gonna play Stainless steel historical improvement project

[unreal beacon]

I wish HOI4 would reach its NSB level

[unreal beacon]

good luck

[fresh cedar]

Not trying to be a jerk, but what main changes would you like to see to return it to that?

[fading walrus]

You’ve actually played that?

[fresh cedar]

Personally I really liked GDR, as much as NSB.

[unreal beacon]

good thing would be for DLCs and updates to be tested before release, with beta tests

[fresh cedar]

Valid point

[fading walrus]

Also to not churn out dlcs every 6 months

[unreal beacon]

now I realized it's not that bad, seeing this latest slop and especially GoE, still I think it's too much Larpy and I hate how german civil war is just do a 70 day focus

[fresh cedar]

But I mean is it the memey aspect of trees? AI priorities?

[unreal beacon]

GDR doesn't feel like proper rework, just like painting over already existing infrastructure, hell even codewise it's visible, most old events are still in game, you just trigger them with different conditions

[fresh cedar]

Would’ve liked a democratic tree tbh. I think the German Reich and Empire were pretty good. But yeah civil war feels very cut and dry

[unreal beacon]

obviously, very similar case with new DLC

[unreal beacon]

I also hate one specific thing and that's research slot

Luckly they dropped it after AAT and ToA

but some countries not being able to get even 5 research slots is criminal

[fresh cedar]

Every South American country basically 😭

[unreal beacon]

and GDR also restricted democratic germany whose main selling point back in the day was those 6 research slots to only 5

[unreal beacon]

except Uruguay and Paraguay somehow

[fresh cedar]

Gets core manpower comparable to USA but resources and research of Oman

[unreal beacon]

except even Oman can get 5

besides, another thing I dislike is they are killing the sandbox aspect of the game

HOI4 should be grounded in reality to some degree, but the same way Poland can put bear on throne, I should be able to play as starting nations they offer me and do something as them

not like those 4 they added in GoE where you quite literally can't do anything

at least syria and burma can do civil war

[fresh cedar]

Like deeper generics that are region based or trees just less locked into specific paths

[unreal beacon]

no no I'm not speaking trees

we don't need focus trees, generic one is good enough for everything

[fresh cedar]

Like specifically the new puppets that exist solely to get annexed?

[unreal beacon]

formables, states, cores stuff like that

[unreal beacon]

that's also an issue it just causes lag

if nation is meant to be annexed in like 1937 why even add it

one thing I like for example

they touched Mengkukuo

in this new dlc

its now a playable nation

[fresh cedar]

I did like early HOI4, pre like 2020 bc it felt very open. I don’t mind research changes and even production companies though

[unreal beacon]

and that I like

give me that, give me some flavor some options, it doesn't all have to be, let me play 4 reworked nations 10 times when DLC comes out, unlock all achievements and go back to playing my favorite mods

or in my case don't play

[fresh cedar]

Less railroad ig

[unreal beacon]

until next dlc

yes, more openness

that's what hoi4 needs

[wise oxide]

desperate defence is so op look at this

[fresh cedar]

Prime example of railroaded countries are the new Chinese ones

[unreal beacon]

NSB for example did this with officer corps

[fresh cedar]

PRC luckily can go democratic now but still

[unreal beacon]

every nation got access to some cool buffs

[unreal beacon]

I think its very slop btw

[fading walrus]

Can we agree that John II is criminally underrated as a Byzantine emperor

[unreal beacon]

not going democratic but

first democratic party should be some social democratic shit

not Kuomintang

secondly, one 70 day focus just doesn't make sense

you have this balance of power thing to make mao leader, why not reintroduce it or something

but no, mao unites the china and in just 10 weeks we go democratic, he gets overthrown

[fresh cedar]

Does it become KMT?

[unreal beacon]

I believe yes

[fresh cedar]

I saw it goes dem just didn’t see KMT

[unreal beacon]

why not have few options, why not democratic mao, who can through reforms (decisions minigame)

become democratic

[fresh cedar]

So in game is Beiyang any different than KMT?

[unreal beacon]

that would be based

[fresh cedar]

I saw a couple warlords and Manchuria can do it

[unreal beacon]

Beiyang

what's that

the democratic guy or

[fresh cedar]

They have like the stripey flag

[unreal beacon]

oh yeah

[fresh cedar]

2-3 warlords form this instead of KMT

[unreal beacon]

another fun fact, about sloppyness of this DLC

when you proclaim PRC right

first little sin, 35 day focus gives a research slot yeahhh sure

but ok

you become Peoples Republic of China

with the modern flag right

here's the thing

that cosmetic tag has only one flag defined and one name defined

if someone would puppet that china and change it's ideology, its always gonna be Peoples Republic of China xD

and the democratic china changes cosmetic tag to I believe old nationalist china cosmetic tag

same names and flags

[fresh cedar]

Really wish the Chinese Empires differed a bit too

[unreal beacon]

integration decisions are mega stupid as well

you can integrate 20 states

20*60 is 1200 days

171 weeks

you need to lose 171% Base Stability

to core everything

did anyone even test this?

like genuinely, a single human who plays this actual game

[fresh cedar]

Average Roman Empire playthrough

Tbh I’d rather coring just require higher compliance than tank stability

[unreal beacon]

Roman Empire loses like 50% tho

managable

[unreal beacon]

I wouldn't mind if it cost stability but less

[fresh cedar]

I forget but most Asian countries seem to get optional ticking stability now

[unreal beacon]

wdym

oh

u mean that

yeah

idk I only played PRC and ROC

genuinely ROC is easy win against japan, and that is ALSO broken

first is marco polo, even non agression pack doesn't save you, they attack you anyway

marco polo very buggy and sloppily made

ok

next

is shanghai incident

[fresh cedar]

+15% inf atk PRC and +20% inf atk Japan is egregious

[unreal beacon]

I dont know if that one is buggy

[fresh cedar]

Pre nerf TOA level buffs

[unreal beacon]

but then randomly in august 1939 Japan attacks you, you are not notified, and neither is japan

japan literally leaves open border and just attacks you randomly

I managed to steal entire shandong

[fresh cedar]

In general China feels a bit sloppy. Especially the border gore once they start taking territory and the map is polka dot

[unreal beacon]

idk abt political tree

[fresh cedar]

I had fun but really needs polish 😭

[unreal beacon]

didn't bother to touch it

also the focus that creates a faction doesn't set rule for china to create it

communist chinese one does, but you can bypass it accidentally, Plus it doesn't set rule for PRC to join factions

even tho it says it does

so you can never join comintern

or allies

when you go democratic

[unreal beacon]

yeah ROC political tree is literally not necessary in your run xD

I just went industrial stuff, attacked the Sichuan clique, that unlocked those focuses that require you to be at war, even more mils, then killed japan with paratroopers

[fresh cedar]

Don’t ignore how KMT legit gives PRC territory if PRC owns the factions

Like if you win a war, they cede all new territory to you

[fresh cedar]

If only Japan had British isles level of defenses

[unreal beacon]

but they couldn't, I killed all of their divisions

almost all

[unreal beacon]

lmao

I didn't know about that

btw, its possible to annex entire china without joining their wars

[fresh cedar]

PRC really gets main character buffs fr

[fresh cedar]

Still love that AI flooding ports forever is still one of the biggest exploits 😭

[unreal beacon]

btw did u see bubbles zest trying to claim how we invented it 😭

his evidence is video he did in 2023 lmao

that exploit was known way before, probably in 2018 if not earlier even, I knew of it in 2019 or 2020

[unreal beacon]

Roman Emperor*

[fresh cedar]

Yeah it’s so cursed bc I remember people doing it in like 2018 Millenium Dawn😂

[hushed lion]

Chances are the port strat has existed about as long as the game itself

[barren tusk]

The most based in the class

Millennium dawn overrated mod

[fresh cedar]

Nah it was peak when the game came out

Before the economy and junk was added

[barren tusk]

Haven't played for months

My favourite mod is la Union y Libertad mod

Content for south america

[strong grail]

am i cooking with this one

[vast shore]

political commentary

[strong grail]

lmao i didnt even think of that i just enabled decision nochecks and then germany had a decision to make kommisariats out of me

[wispy peak]

Thoughts on the naval rework and faction system? I legitimately hate it right, the new naval dominance system is extremely difficult and extremely punishing for smaller navies, naval invasions are absolutely HORRIBLE now and even more pointless than paradropping.

Factions honestly the nations are constantly leaving, reforming and changing factions mid war causing constant random stuff to happen and the influence system is absolutely broken as hell

[fresh cedar]

I’d say this point of nations leaving is the most apparent to me but maybe that’s bc ahistorical

[wispy peak]

Yeah in our game Germany had a faction, left it, formed a new one, left that, formed a new one and invited the soviets and then declared on a former ally its just really annoying

Cause I cant tell whats safe to attack anymore

[fresh cedar]

I like the concept of them and believe in time they can both be good once bugs are worked out. Think AI needs tweaking when using naval.

[wispy peak]

Honestly the new system is confusing as so

[fresh cedar]

In my game I was communist Japan and got Australia and New Zealand in my faction only for them to leave and join my enemies somehow

[wispy peak]

When the tooltip tells me I have 500 dominance of the 0 needed BUT im not allowed to naval invade

Like I dont understand what the game wants from me lol

[fresh cedar]

Don’t you need like 500 naval power to invade?

[wispy peak]

Ye but apparently we arent allowed to because britain has dominance despite not being at war with us

[fresh cedar]

I experienced a terrible bug where my communist China ally somehow was destroying my supply and nerfing me in China. Like when I entered their land I just had no supply

[fresh cedar]

Wdym?

[wispy peak]

The entire system seems to be extremely buggy and random I much MUCH prefer the old supremacy system with the colours because it actually could be understood

[fresh cedar]

I like the old color scheme too. I like the concept of this system more but it can be dodgy at times

[wispy peak]

So to set the reference he was netherlands I was Italy, he was securing the sea zones to invade portugal where together we had like 800 dominance per tile. Game didnt let him launch because Britain had 13000

We werent at war with Britain

But seemingly their dominance still prevented a launch

[fresh cedar]

Did they embargo?

[wispy peak]

Since the sea zone was not "friendly"

No

[fresh cedar]

Bc if a country embargo’s or blocks trade I think it can prevent convoys

[wispy peak]

Its what I am so confused about by all means we should have been able to launch that invasion but we couldnt for some reason

[fresh cedar]

Any mods?

I almost wonder if simple mods even throw off the new calculations

[wispy peak]

Cosmetic mods and focus tree mods nothing that touches naval tech or doctrine etc

So it shouldnt break the new system

[fresh cedar]

And no other enemy navies had larger supply?

Or rather larger dominance

[wispy peak]

It was portugal whos fleet got nuked by my friend

So no

[fresh cedar]

Oh like Portugal alone?

[wispy peak]

The only other navies in those sea zones were France and UK

Yeah

And we werent at war with either of them

No embargoes or naval blockades

[fresh cedar]

I was guessing a blockade yeah

Weird

[wispy peak]

yeah by all means that invasion should have gone

[fresh cedar]

I think there’s an issue with supply/land control this patch

[wispy peak]

But the new system gives us 0 feedback so we cant tell why

[fresh cedar]

Like my ally legit wasn’t providing me with any supply and its debuffs towards enemies even applied to me. So I used console and annexed them, then suddenly had supply and my divisions did damage

So I’m wondering if it extends to naval at times

[wispy peak]

Thats quite a major bug

Yeah when he hovered over the naval invasion it said we didnt have enough dominance and "we have 854 of the 0 dominance in the Iberian sea" was basically the tip

Which what on earth does that mean lol

[fresh cedar]

It actually made my Japanese game unplayable bc I couldn’t attack China. Any time I tried invading it was communist Chinese territory that I had zero supply in lol

[fresh cedar]

That’s so weird

I wonder if it was blockaded for someone and it just arbitrarily applied to every player

Bc so far for me naval invasions have been smooth. All I could think is a mis-allocated blocked

[fresh cedar]

Was there one Portugal or two?

[wispy peak]

One

[fresh cedar]

That’s so weird wtf

[wispy peak]

Yeah I did an invasion of greece and it worked fine

When you do an invasion through multiple zones where some neutral countries are also doing navy stuff

The system seemingly breaks

[thick edge]

excuse me

"no supply connection from capital"

as its on my capital

[fresh cedar]

So it’s neutral nations interdicting maybe or just neutral blockades

Weird

[stable tusk]

Hmmm
Ig it changed your supply capital to somewhere else

[thick edge]

i had to connect my railway/supply hub to my allies railway

so fun

[fresh cedar]

Supply is kinda just cooked this patch

Especially through allies

[gritty fjord]

The new naval system might be good but its pretty hard to tell whats happening

[unreal beacon]

probably lategame, go to main menu and load back or maybe restart the game

in late game everything is buggy and so is supply

[thick edge]

it was 1940 ish

[unreal beacon]

ok then not

[unreal beacon]

well your capital supply hub is not your capital

you probably conquered tons of land

[thick edge]

prob this then

[unreal beacon]

why is your nickname that

[thick edge]

has been it for over a year

never changed it

[unreal beacon]

zoom out if thats still an issue and screenshot it

[thick edge]

i fixed it already

[unreal beacon]

ah ok

[prisma orchid]

For any other achievement hunters out there: The battle royale achievement is bugged in the new update, instead of declaring war(within 90 days of each other) and eventually capitulating japan and china, it wants you to specifically capitulate them before 1940 as Communist China(i am unsure of how the 90 days wording thing works). Just a head's up to anyone trying to do it, and i hope they patch it due to the odd wording, and difficulty of the achievement. It is pretty much only possible in non-historical games, getting lucky with japan actions and warlords/china not teaming up.

[drifting star]

Did they change naval invasions ?

[polar jasper]

Yes, they are fixed times now

And limited in number you can do at a time

But overall buff in how many divisions you can ship in at once

[dark hound]

Japan with the Suiyan Campaign is super busted.

You basically get the ability to cap Shanxi and then have a perfect base to outflank the entire north.

[timid quail]

did they remove that thing where you could naval invade countries w volunteers and not have to worry abt enemy fleet?

[vast shore]

Except for the japanese in China for some reason lmao

[brave oracle]

usa ai is so useless

[fresh cedar]

Nah it’s cooked if you use allied territory

They legit don’t grant access to hubs and will even apply debuffs to enemies to you

[vast shore]

wdym

[safe plover]

does anone know how to get the dictator mac arthur?

[fresh cedar]

You mean this?

[safe plover]

yeah

[fresh cedar]

I’ve never done it but saw the AI do it. Not sure how sorry

But it being a US puppet may be a strong indicator

[outer moss]

Remove naval headquarters from the game

[safe plover]

maybe if u make a mistkae in communism

[tawdry condor]

they buffed china..

[safe plover]

only a little bit

[hollow lion]

||Go down the pro-USA path then go down the fascist path and choose the new event option||

[hushed lion]

No way thr soviets can release countries now

Holy peak

[fresh cedar]

Sometimes them having 10-20 divisions per tile is a bit much lol

[hollow lion]

Yeh I fixed some legacy bugs when I worked on NCNS but they didnt go into the patchnotes

Atatürk is now also mortal again (RIP), Germany doesnt keep fascism drift when you defeat them and you can use the nuke you can get during the nuke project, etc

[hushed lion]

https://tenor.com/view/british-cop-screaming-screaming-sad-gif-1879411192175791821

[hushed lion]

No way also no more rising post war fascism

Absolute peak

[safe plover]

its kinda sad that u dont get any follow up flavor after forming the mongol empire

[hushed lion]

You should be able to core the kalmyks atleast

[tawdry condor]

fr

like taking over the ussr

japan etc

[faint parrot]

hungary or austria

[hushed lion]

For?

I personally prefer Hungary

[faint parrot]

overall

[fresh cedar]

Wish it got more cores and puppets tbh

[ashen pollen]

I did not know drug use was a thing, is this new or just rarely used?

[robust grail]

Lol, this raid truck look cute!

[hollow lion]

rarely used

[polar jasper]

It existed before. I dont know what it does exactly

[main lotus]

i remember that could devolve and give debuffs to that general

[median bronze]

so uhh whats the difference with the support and repair ship

[rotund cargo]

One supports and the other one repairs

On more serious note: they apply different effects to the taskforce, repair reduces attrition, effect of sustained critical hits and ship recovery chance IIRC

While support one provides increased org, org recovery and max range factor for the tf

[median bronze]

and the trick is to maximise the numbers over? i.e here it says 125/321 meaning only 125 ships would be supported over 321? but I mean I don't have that many ships lol

[rotund cargo]

It displays the Support Value provided by those ships in the TF compared to the fraction of the dominance value of TF

[median bronze]

so I should basically maximise it to the highest number for the highest effect?

[rotund cargo]

In this case if you add two more repair ships you should be at the max value (375/321 needed)

But yes - the first number is current support value provided by the ship / support value needed for full effect

[polar jasper]

So exactly how do naval supply hubs work. You got your home base and then you have them

Exactly what do they do

[peak flame]

They basically count as additional home bases

[polar jasper]

So, let's say there is one on Guam and i have a home base in San Diego, it extends the range of supply, right?

Also epic Philippines tree you made

[rotund cargo]

Yes, now the range will be calculated from both San Diego and Guam.

[brittle venture]

its been a thing since waking the tiger

[limber frigate]

Did they add the mongol empire formable in this update

[stable tusk]

They added a Greater Mongolia formable

[limber frigate]

What can it core

[stable tusk]

Mongolia, Mejiang, some land in northern China, and I think Buryatia

[limber frigate]

It should core more

[hushed lion]

Not just buryatia, there are a couple more Russian states

[limber frigate]

Also does Mongolia core it or is it for menchukuo

[hushed lion]

Both can do the formable

[unreal beacon]

Fun fact: For whatever stupid reason Population is now decimal in hoi4, and you can have like 0.67 of one human

[fresh cedar]

Scraping the barrel

[idle spade]

best japan path?

[fresh cedar]

Historical or Empire

[unreal beacon]

unfun fact: this broke get_var max_manpower_k command and now you can't know the maximum population in states controlled by you, so yeah f you, go calculate 600 states individually with a calculator

[unreal beacon]

Logan Paul

[idle spade]

Secret path

you have to take screenshot of soldier deathcount

[fresh cedar]

Tried to do the Buddhist one but the game just broke so couldn’t.

Had zero supply in an Allie’s territory despite supply points being well under limits. The AI either didn’t grant me hub access or their debuffs to enemie occupiers applied to me

[idle spade]

which one is empire

[fresh cedar]

I think middle path?

Shogunate

[hollow lion]

Apparently they updated non-integer variables to have overflow issues far less easily, so if manpower is part of that, you shouldnt need the _k variant anymore

[sweet lodge]

holy shit the new naval system is somehow worse LMAO

[polar jasper]

Ive quite enjoyed it, what's the problems you are facing

[sweet lodge]

you stand practically zero chance against any country which has more ships, we truly are at a quantity > quality phase

[polar jasper]

If you take out their patrols, you can prevent them from gaining supremacy

If you convoy raid, you reduce their dominance

Should be able to do that with destroyers and subs

[sweet lodge]

they managed to complicate an already complicated system

[polar jasper]

It doesn't feel that complicated

You got a

• dominance
  × dominance
  Minus dominance

[sweet lodge]

yeah and previously you just had a nice simple dominance everywhere

[polar jasper]

They made it less instant

Which makes sense

[sweet lodge]

if less instant means genuinely never then sure?

[polar jasper]

Now it is you gain dominance based on how much you actively control

Having 100 ships sit in port doesn't give dominance, but multiplies current dominance

[sweet lodge]

over 100 ships and patrols, 12 french ships somehow block any form of dominance

[polar jasper]

Now

[sweet lodge]

height of quality

[polar jasper]

How many task forces are you patroling

Do you have 1 deathstack patrolling?

[sweet lodge]

no its numerous

[polar jasper]

Or did you have like 10

I didn't have many issues in my US game, but im also the US

My escort carrier patrols were extremely potent against all enemy fleets

[sweet lodge]

yeah US is just naturally OP

[polar jasper]

Eh, they have been power crept a lot

Aside from coal

The US has a crap ton of coal

What ships were you using to patrol?

[sweet lodge]

the naval change honestly just feels like another needless change from paradox

destroyers and subs

had my big battle ships in strike force

[polar jasper]

How many destroyers per task force and what was their design

And was the enemy convoy raiding

[sweet lodge]

honestly cannot recall, just got a bit fed up of the game

so quit

[polar jasper]

I just know that my patrol task forces of an escort carrier, a spotting heavy cruiser, and like 10 destroyers wiped the Japanese fleet

[sweet lodge]

truly a thoroughly tested dlc

[polar jasper]

Well I had 8 of those task forces

And a strike force

With a decent sized fleet for the Atlantic chilling and not doing much

[sweet lodge]

how do you propose then a country such as Germany just "beats" a combined US/French/UK fleet

[polar jasper]

I should play Germany and try to do an actual sea lion

[polar jasper]

Port strikes

Naval bombing

[sweet lodge]

eh

[polar jasper]

Decisive battles

[sweet lodge]

naval bombings are alright but not near enough

[polar jasper]

Actually doing plan z

[sweet lodge]

I wish hoi4 actually had decisive battles

nothing feels decisive in it

[polar jasper]

The problem is that you cant use subs in the channel

Because of the negative modifiers against them

[sweet lodge]

true

but there isn't much Germany could actually do now

[polar jasper]

And they buffed carriers to actual fight against land based planes (finally)

[polar jasper]

Air lion

Paratroopers

Germany can get some insanely strong paratroopers with Student

[sweet lodge]

nah hardly works, AI just spams the entire mainland of Britain with garrisons

[polar jasper]

You got AAT, right?

[sweet lodge]

yeah

[polar jasper]

If you can make a bridge head and hold, you just need to make them tire themselves out as you CAS them to death

The paratrooper doctrine is quite powerful

[sweet lodge]

assuming you don't get beaten by the entire commonwealth, france and the US, sure

[polar jasper]

You just need to deal with the static AA

Or again, Plan Z

Or you just build Atlantikwall and call it a day

And go in on the Soviets

[sweet lodge]

not fun if you can't win though

its not a challenge to spam like 100 garrisons on the atlantikwall

[polar jasper]

But you get the crossing the Atlantic focus, right?

Or do you need to take out the UK for it

[sweet lodge]

doesn't do much to assist

[polar jasper]

20% dockyard output

[sweet lodge]

I want to say you need the UK but cannot recall

[polar jasper]

You can build a fleet very quickly

[sweet lodge]

yeah but if you still have france and the UK in a capitulated but not defeated state, they can utilise their navies to assist the US

[polar jasper]

You also would have cacusses oil to patrol with your deathstack fleet and wipe out enemy patrols

[sweet lodge]

still a massive challenge to just cross the atlantic

[polar jasper]

It always has

[sweet lodge]

eh

was do-able if you had the patience

[polar jasper]

Having to Island Hop to Iceland and Greenland is annoying

[sweet lodge]

now its just overly daunting

[polar jasper]

Know what, haven't done a historical Germany game in awhile

I might do that

[sweet lodge]

absolutely boring gameplay at this rate on it lol

[polar jasper]

But muh sea lion

[sweet lodge]

non historical has got the most awful designs for paths but at least makes a game interesting

[polar jasper]

UK does home defense on historical

[sweet lodge]

thats another thing with paradox dlcs, they seem to love this whole overly stupid non historical paths

[polar jasper]

So it makes sea lion an actual challenge

[polar jasper]

They were a lot tamer this dlc

The meme paths are truly hidden

[sweet lodge]

were they? haven't bought the newest one cus I can't lie hoi4 has been seeming worse and worse compared to other paradox games like eu

[polar jasper]

Well, there is no East India Company levels of wackiness

[sweet lodge]

like I don't mind a dumb meme path of Argentina and Adam Hilt, that at least is a funny meme

but as you said, East India Company, what were they thinking

[polar jasper]

This is hidden, which is fine

[sweet lodge]

or my personal favourite, Hungary wants to reform Austria-Hungary and everyone gives a thumbs up and is onboard??????

[polar jasper]

Empress of Japan and MacArthur Philippines are hidden, which is fine

[covert siren]

yk youre supposed to have fun and all?

[polar jasper]

People despised the RNG originally

[sweet lodge]

rng was mid asf tbf

[polar jasper]

Do you remember the pain of the Czechs denying

[sweet lodge]

alt f4 if you were going for the achievement and coming back the next day lol

[polar jasper]

That is just a game restart

[sweet lodge]

doesn't help too when dlcs feel half assed

[polar jasper]

At least now, there is a whole integration system you have to do

[sweet lodge]

not looking at any in particular..

[polar jasper]

Slopyard of Empires

[sweet lodge]

was peak slop

biggest waste of money on any dlc

[polar jasper]

Eh, I got that DLC for free.

I just spent $40 for Ride of the Valkyries clearly

[stable tusk]

I do like how the meme secret paths are hidden better tho
Like if you want Nuclear Gandhi in GOE you just 1. elect him and 2. give him a bodyguard through the focus tree
If you want Hirohito's wife in charge of Japan you 1. Go Kodoha faction 2. Try to convince Hirohito 3. 50% he says no, put him under house arrest 4. much later down the tree you kill him 5. His wife is suspicious, launch an investigation 6. Arrest those who did it and put her on the throne
Like I want it so I can't just randomly get a meme path without thinking about it (unless you're that one youtuber who got Hirohito's wife randomly by clicking random events)

[sweet lodge]

ride of the valkyries was fire

[polar jasper]

Yeah. And I like this

But just looking at a focus tree and seeing buy the world as the EIC

Seems a bit wacky

[sweet lodge]

long and difficult methods for meme paths I am fine with

makes them a unique challenge

but when you can get nuclear gandhi even if you're brand new is just a piss take

[silent flame]

is anyone playing as communist china having issues with the infiltrations?

I get them up to level 2 and every time they suddenly drop to 0

[polar jasper]

Nationalist China can counteract you

Make it level 3 to force them to spend more political power

[fresh cedar]

You got countered

[silent flame]

ye but it's not letting me because every time I get close

(level 2)

it just instantly pushes me down to 0

not even 1

[polar jasper]

Interesting

[silent flame]

like I'm maxing out on political power

not even doing focuses

and I can't get a single one

I get 3.18 political power a day

this is incredibly frustrating

[wooden wyvern]

this is what i think schizo paths should be

i think they can way more bullshit then they are currently

but always hidden or difficult to get

[unreal beacon]

yeah, what other option am I present with instead?

[unreal beacon]

as always ofc

[unreal beacon]

germany can do much, navy is just ass for it, germany is still the most broken country in the game, and you can build trillions of rubber and oil, you don't need to even build navy as germany to win

[formal ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/pout-kiss-blowing-a-kiss-suspense-christian-bale-gif-16931550113965916217

did they change the CAS damage modifier or something i still cant push

[unreal beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1371899155462619319/1443415126572011634/image.png?ex=6928fc97&is=6927ab17&hm=163f5bd369fb2f6d4b76b22dd1fc6fa00df02827c83e00d81cff514feac0b0d6&

DLC very not broken as intended

[drifting star]

Eww communism

[hoary siren]

[unreal beacon]

my hecking soyence

[ashen pollen]

That's quite fast...

[wet onyx]

anyone else having issues with other players getting crazy high ping when unpausing in multiplayer with this update?

[hoary siren]

Yes it’s a know. Issue. Multiplayer is practically impossible with the new update/dlc until fixed

[drifting star]

What’s the max core population of kumal

[coral drift]

From WtT, rarely used, but should've give some malus

[ashen pollen]

Does anyone know an automatic way to refit carriers?

I got like 2100 airframes in storage

[brittle venture]

delete airwings?

you can also pre set what planes you want on in your production queue

[ashen pollen]

There's 19 carriers... I don't wanna do this manually ;-;

[brittle venture]

you have to do it manually for already deployed carriers

theres a shortcut button though it should only take a few minutes

[coral drift]

I still wanted the Philippines to have 5th research slot even if you did not completely follow America

Put 200 civs requirement to unlock it and i would still happy.

[coral drift]

Tbh, i get this.

But i like exploring alt-historical possibilities and still have enough commitment to revamping stuffs if it goes awry.

Even as small as the flag being unsuited to the ruling political group

[velvet elk]

HAPPY THANKSGIVING BOIS

[safe plover]

They said they fixed it in the new patch but they made it worse

[safe plover]

glorious white russian revolutionaries?? lol

[hollow lion]

Maybe they might not find that too bad

[safe plover]

wild name

[hushed lion]

Sheng is literally fascist look at the pie chart

[vast shore]

This DLC is very broken

And the price is ridiculous

I would be mad

But I didn't pay for it

Jokes aside - this DLC is outrageous even for Paradox standards

[near summit]

The only good thing is the doctrines.

[vast shore]

True

But the faction rework is underwhelming

[wise oxide]

w update but plz paradox make the trash choices ok or even good

[vast shore]

"w update" my brother in christ, MP is unplayable

[near summit]

I hope they will change it, but idk

[wise oxide]

make artilliery 2 cw at this point

[wise oxide]

sis not everyone cares about mp

im too employed for it

[vast shore]

Well I do

Warlord adventures are even more fun in MP

[wise oxide]

how is it broken?

[vast shore]

Ping is utterly messed up

[safe plover]

ah yes

shes just gonna be like bye im gonna head of

[hollow coral]

Cant go on vacation anymore

[median bronze]

did they fix it so if u go fascist the northeast army will now be annexed?

[coral drift]

Sorry, Ching-Ling was Sun Yat Sen's

[junior olive]

How can you have only 200k manpower at playing as china

Or its taiwan?

[brittle venture]

china gets very bad manpower and eco debuffs with the dlc

[hushed lion]

Another patch?

Didn't we have one yesterday

[pseudo wing]

Team's being proactive as possible to get bugfixes out :)

[mental onyx]

This patch is relatively small but next will be as big as yesterday if not bigger

[pure schooner]

no way airmap no color bug finally got fixed

[hushed lion]

Ah so it wasn't just my problem

[wise oxide]

buff trash tech abd doctorine

nerf meta tank destroyersand space marines

[autumn breach]

seriously though how can anyone justify this pricing

who ever is in charge of this has to have been dropped on the head when they were a kid lol

[fresh cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/job-job-application-jobless-gif-2757097081210871087

[brittle venture]

https://tenor.com/view/nano-shinonome-nichijou-everyday-life-scared-gif-11920291973395699228

[autumn breach]

wym by this? i can more than afford the dlc

[fresh cedar]

Same, and that’s why I bought it and played it.

Though I will say $25 is the extent I’d pay for a HOI4 dlc

[autumn breach]

there is no reason for hoi4 dlc to be that expensive, paradox is just being greedy and scummy

[fresh cedar]

Had to recover losses from GOE I guess 😂

[fading walrus]

🍿

[autumn breach]

youd think they would learn from their mistakes but they keep doing stupid stuff like this

[fresh cedar]

Paradox has always been this way. It’s legit one of the industry leads at this behavior

[autumn breach]

paradox simply doesnt care about any of it all it cares about is the money

[fresh cedar]

That’s the purpose of a company, no?

Profit

[bright hill]

These are certainly takes that are being posted

[fresh cedar]

Paradox is basically the Ferengi of gaming companies. I’m convinced they have the rules of acquisition posted in their office

https://tenor.com/view/rule-211-employees-are-the-rungs-on-the-ladder-of-success-dont-hesita-te-to-step-on-them-star-trek-gif-9972605735144516309

[bright hill]

You're thinking of EA or Ubisoft

[fresh cedar]

No lol

I am thinking of all 3

[bright hill]

If Paradox was Ferengi, then there wouldn't be a free update with the content.

[fading walrus]

I’m just watching because this is dumb

Rn I’m playing 1220 start date stainless steel as Byzantium

[autumn breach]

paradox is objectively making shitty choices and doing scummy things and the more people that speak out against it and damages paradox' reputation the better

[fresh cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/rule-87-learn-the-customers-weaknesses-so-that-you-can-better-take-a-dvantage-of-him-star-trek-gif-1983016481032039292

[bright hill]

Just because you say "objectively" in front of your opinion doesn't make it fact.

[fading walrus]

Honestly this whole convo is cringe

[fresh cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/thumbs-up-thumbs-up-group-thumbs-up-circle-okay-gif-4307739110186058516

[fading walrus]

I did the smartest thing out of the lot of us, I’m not buying another paradox dlc again

[fresh cedar]

I buy them, but as a consumer I’m also entitled to give my opinion on what I purchased 😂

[autumn breach]

well its not like throwing all old players that bought old dlc only to make it free is subjectively bad, its objectively a scummy thing to do.
releasing dlc at a considerable increase in price opposed to what they used to charge for dlc is objectively scummy

[fresh cedar]

And I’m saying, their current pricing model is at the limit of their supply/demand cost.

[fading walrus]

Hoi4 will probably be forgotten in 10 years tbh

[bright hill]

So now they're scummy and greedy for making something free? 💀

[autumn breach]

they are scummy for doing nothing for the players that actually paid for the dlc in the first place

like we dont even get a thank you or anything

[fresh cedar]

Don’t be obtuse, it can be perceived as scummy especially if they don’t give advanced notice of this so consumers bought it with the inability for refund.

[bright hill]

You're really upset they didn't give you a pat on the head and call you a good boy

[fresh cedar]

They clearly knew Japan was in the works well in advance, probably a year. Yet only warned 2-3 months before.

[solid gyro]

ts update was coal

[autumn breach]

like for example when tf2 became free people who actually bought the game got a hat, it wasnt much but it was something

[fresh cedar]

This is can lead to a lack of consumer confidence

[autumn breach]

found the paradox shill

[bright hill]

Right, everyone who disagrees with you is a shill

[fresh cedar]

More like a slap on the butt and a cigarette burn

[autumn breach]

if you defend paradox for doing those things its hard to think ur not lol

[bright hill]

Not really, maybe if you live in some kind of ragebait youtuber bubble.

[fresh cedar]

Do you believe $25 for this dlc to be a fair price?

Mind you not long ago it was $20 and before that $15

[autumn breach]

i mean if you think the majority of people is a "bubble" sure

[fading walrus]

No it should be 20$

Or less

[fresh cedar]

It should be $15, especially since many of the trees is just tweaked content

[fading walrus]

Agreed

[bright hill]

Eh, depends on the DLC. if it's an ass ton of content that took a lot of manhours, sure. It's worth noting that the DLC sales also fund the free update which had a lot of big changes.

[fresh cedar]

There were basically 3 focus trees

[bright hill]

People in a bubble always think they're the majority.

[fresh cedar]

Sorry 4, including Phillipines

[fading walrus]

I got more out of GDR than this dlc

[fresh cedar]

Same

[autumn breach]

lol the dlc is literally mostly negative reviews on steam, the majority of consumers are not happy with it

[fresh cedar]

I actually like coal, new naval, and the doctrines.

[fresh cedar]

Are Paradox dlc generally well received? Is it positive?

If consumers reviews aren’t an indicator idk what is

[bright hill]

It's 800 reviews. You think only 800 people got the DLC?

[fading walrus]

I have to defend Durazzo from Venice

[autumn breach]

sometimes, bba and aat were bad but nsb was good

[fresh cedar]

If you saw a review for a company on glass door was 1.2/5, would you want to work for it? Or would you be like “Surely this isn’t everyone who worked there”

[autumn breach]

okay and if ur right then why are people not recommending the dlc more?

[fresh cedar]

Sample sizes can represent larger groups 😂

[autumn breach]

i think ur projecting about me being in the bubble lol

[fading walrus]

I recommend Medieval 2 and Rome total war

[bright hill]

I'd keep that 1.2 in mind while looking at other factors. I wouldn't look at a single piece of information and base my whole opinion on it.

[fresh cedar]

Basically every post on every platform paradox has made for this dlc has had consumers attacking the price and scope

[fading walrus]

Scope was too narrow they should have added more stuff for Manchuko and Menchuko

[fresh cedar]

Alright, so you just would rather ignore statistics. Please never vote for politicians 😭

[bright hill]

Ok fella. Sure I can guess what kind of statistics you like to reference with how you're acting.

[fresh cedar]

You know many in here still enjoy paradox games. We just are getting disconnected with pricing models

[bright hill]

Ok?

[fresh cedar]

It’s actually how business/customer relationships should work

Yet you act surprised that there’s discourse

[bright hill]

Not at all

[tiny thicket]

yeye lil bro paradox business model with DLCs is fine

on sale btw

[fresh cedar]

You labeled people opposed to the pricing were outliers

[autumn breach]

its not like paradox needed to increase prices either, they made BUCKET LOADS of money when new dlcs came out at reasonable prices, they are just trying to squeeze out every penny possible and its super scummy

[bright hill]

No I didn't. I just said that one example of reviews isn't enough to draw a conclusion that the majority of people hate it

[safe plover]

[fresh cedar]

Yet on every platform and post HOI4 has had the past few months has had similar consumer reactions

Even in streams

[bright hill]

This Reddit-U MBA is the one making the wild blanket statements. You might be getting us mixed up.

[fresh cedar]

Why do you resort to demeaning people rather than just engaging in discourse? You realize that undermines your credibility right?

[autumn breach]

bro what are u talking about? ur the one looking like an idiot trying to defend paradoxes blatant greed lol

[fresh cedar]

Meanwhile 5/6 people in this discussion are against the current pricing 😭

Yet claims we are the minority

[bright hill]

I'm not demeaning anybody. I'm just saying the guy's statements are wild and seem like they're parroting some thing they read.

[autumn breach]

exactly, he isnt the smartest fellow xD

[bright hill]

Again, I didn't say that.

[fading walrus]

Aren’t we the majority

[autumn breach]

ur the one who claimed i was in some sort of bubble XD

[fresh cedar]

No, we are straw men. Isolated bubbles. So are the steam reviews. In fact so are the comments on Instagram, X, YouTube, on livestreams.

[fading walrus]

I was trying to bait Saint

[fresh cedar]

Clearly the silent majority loves the dlc and the pricing

If anything, they can crank those numbers higher

[bright hill]

With the wild claims you're making, you probably are. You screaming that the company is evil doesn't really represent people who just don't like the price.

[fresh cedar]

Let’s not get started on HOI4 YouTubers either. They are also the minority

[shut thunder]

what is the coal even about ?

[fresh cedar]

I know 😂

[burnt sail]

IMO the dlc should be 15$ with all the mechanics being added to base game for free

[bright hill]

You basically need energy to run your factories. It comes from coal.

[fresh cedar]

It’s a soft cap on economy size basically. Run over and you produce less. So you want to stay at peak efficiency or conquer new coal

[autumn breach]

i said they are being scummy, not that they are evil lol

[fading walrus]

Unnecessary Realism akin to Europa Barbarorum or Stainless steel historical improvement project

[fresh cedar]

I second this. And 2016-2022 HOI4 was this way

[shut thunder]

so let's say it's like powering the steam energy plants (Warm electric Plants) to make electricity to run factories?

[floral tangle]

I think the main problem with coal is that many minor nations are very dependent on imports of it very early in the game, so it kinda hurts them more than the major nations as most have enough and even profit from exporting it

[bright hill]

Pretty much.

[fresh cedar]

I believe that’s as intended

Tbh nuclear power plants should offset energy more

Isn’t it only like 25% reduction in energy for a state

[shut thunder]

Nah I don't think that Bulgaria need that

[fresh cedar]

Should be 50%

But ig these are early nuclear reactors

[shut thunder]

great idea

[fresh cedar]

Believe it or not they already do.

[shut thunder]

nah it's more like the steam power plants

[fresh cedar]

Just not a lot

[burnt sail]

Didnt they just announce they’re gonna make it 50%?

[fresh cedar]

That’s a modern nuclear plant too. Just steam 😂

[fresh cedar]

I think they said they’d consider tweaking

[shut thunder]

they don't use nuclear but use coal and oil instead

[floral tangle]

But don't that just get them the opposite of what the goal of coal is ?

[shut thunder]

different resources for the same purpose*

[fresh cedar]

Coal is meant to limit economies and encourage expansion basically

[median bronze]

we got a coal rework before GTA 6

[fresh cedar]

Or in cases, nerf snowball

[burnt sail]

We will be making a buff to the Civilian Nuclear Reactors state modifier. Currently it reduces local energy consumption from factories by 25%. We are intending to adjust it to a 50% reduction to add a more significant impact to your choices when it comes to late-game specialization.

[fresh cedar]

Let me check in game really quick

Bc Civ nuke reactors are so expensive lol

[burnt sail]

I doubt its in the game already

[fresh cedar]

Having a dam and nuclear reactor in a state can be pretty strong

[floral tangle]

Let's take Germany: it won't really see coal as a problem in a historic run since it has besides the USA by far the most of it, and with the res of Europe annexed that is not a concern to them or their economy while. That does make it feel like the nations with like 1 coal deposit got a huge debuff

[fresh cedar]

Non core coal is less effective. So if you conquer a continent without cores it actually tanks your energy efficiency

You’re kinda incentivized to use collabs and rk’s more now

[fresh cedar]

I think minors with little to no coal actually still have a base energy production value.

[polar jasper]

You get 10 base energy

All countries do

[fresh cedar]

What does coal produce? 1 energy?

[polar jasper]

Not sure exactly

[fresh cedar]

I had like 300 coal and 300 factories and my energy seemed about at peak

But I think as your economy grows there’s diminishing returns to coal efficiency

Could be wrong

[polar jasper]

Well, I know mobilization effects coal usage

So it varies

[fresh cedar]

I kinda hate how Anarchism has +45% energy usage and NEP has 35%. Really nerfs these unique economic policies

[polar jasper]

I have mostly played China and the US, so I never really had issues with coal

I never went up more than partial mob for the US anyways

And I still ran out of building slots

[rotund cargo]

1 coal = 9 energy at the current live values (before someone twists that and says: 'energy provided by coal, changed next patch confirmed' no, I am not saying that)

[fresh cedar]

Thank you for the clarity. Didn’t look into the values a lot

[fresh cedar]

Tbh I barely had issues with Japan bc I took China

[floral tangle]

So does that imply energy consumption per factory growns the more factories you have ?

[polar jasper]

You know what the devs could have done.

Create Saarland with its coal, giving France an incentive to want that state like irl

[fresh cedar]

I wish Anarchism had a ticking daily compliance advisor like so many others countries get

[polar jasper]

France lacked coal irl I believe, and I think they do in hoi4 as well

[fresh cedar]

It seems very left behind compared to new countries

[brittle venture]

zwirbaum, i see an issue with the energy usage being based on factory owner instead of receiver.
this might apply to puppets too and allow an overlord to pay little to no energy usage :) i think it would be best for the end receiver of the factories to pay the energy, or for it to be divided 50/50

[fresh cedar]

Like Japan can core all of Asia relatively cheaply and easily

Idk but personally I feel like one of the only people who really liked the introduction of coal. I feel like the haters don’t get it 😂

[rotund cargo]

It is a bit more complicated, right now AFAIK, overlord will pay the energy cost of the factory, as it is technically assigned to the overlord factory pool

[floral tangle]

Idk about ww2 but they sure did in 1971-ww1 bc their main mines where in Elsac-Lorraine and creating new coal mines in for example Rhône and northern France was very expensive and time intensive so they had very little production of their own

[rotund cargo]

The problem with the trade was that this factory technically is still on the count of the OG country, as well usable by the country that you are buying from

So that was double counting (factory on both ends)

[brittle venture]

yes, but this is more a response to the update post and the trade idea :> i assume it will work similarly to trade

and i feel like its a concern that should be thought about

as you would not want the receiving end to just have free factories, or the sender to be crippled with essentially economic double debt (if low on coal/energy, and trading for such, this would be a double negative)

[tribal stag]

Was the Philippine achievement for coring Spain broken or did my game just decided to never register it

[rotund cargo]

Beside the trade, AFAIK all the energy consumption and factory counts are assigned to the country that uses it, so Overlord pays for factories that are given to them by the Subjects etc.

And Subjects do no pay for those, as they are no longer in their factory count pool

[polar jasper]

I still think it would have been neat for an option to have oil usage reduce coal consumption, but the new techs might be better and avoid complication

Though if both were added, energy might never be an issue

[fresh cedar]

I like that energy has to be a consideration and you can’t just scale into space without any ramifications

[polar jasper]

I do like the idea of an industry cap as well

What im annoyed with is everyone complaining about it

[brittle venture]

rn its a bit of an annoyance at most i think is the issue

it doesnt really cap you compared to ai, it hinders mostly multiplayer players with high eco counts

[polar jasper]

Okay, so what's the major problem with coal in MP

Who gets disproportionately effected

[fresh cedar]

Same. I think it’s actually a good system, atleast for SP

[brittle venture]

ussr mostly and germany has to do excav techs

also italy

[fresh cedar]

Which they already should be

[brittle venture]

the saddest axis nation

[polar jasper]

Oh no, not the excavation techs

Italy does look pitiful

But how good was its industry historically

Italy player gets screwed by forced larp

And most of USSRs coal is in Dombas, right?

[brittle venture]

bad but it should not be constantly punished in hoi4 for game balance

[polar jasper]

Idk how to spell

[brittle venture]

like it doesnt even balance the game out nicely, it just makes them sad

[rocky escarp]

There’s been a lot of robust discussion around other sources of energy, particularly oil. As things currently stand, oil fulfills an existing game function and we intended to keep this separation for now.

will probably not be good news for anyone in those discussions to hear about that decision
But admittedly a fully realistic oil power plant building would probably not be good to implement either:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ncns-what-were-working-on.1880763/post-30939573

Power plants require thousands of tons(hundreds of barrels) of oil per hour delivered by specialist vehicles, so the demand between several armored divisons in combat and an oil fired power plant are comparable.
An Essex Class carrier had a combined 110 MW power plant. At max power, it consumed ~250 barrels of fuel an hour, so a standard power plant of the time producing 300MW of power would use 750 barrels an hour. I'd say that's ~8-16 oil in game.

[fresh cedar]

I would maybe like a choice between full coal for energy, or offset with oil

Like a unique law just for oil consumption

And maybe a third option to offset it with refineries

Just a thought

[rocky escarp]

If we do go minimum 8 oil to start a single power plant, then is that missing out on 768 fuel units per day with max techs?

Needed to check my calculation was correct, and also if anyone can tell how important that figure is

[wispy peak]

See its awkward what they say about nuclear power not providing energy because they don't want you transitioning off coal in the late game

But the issue is its going to be at minimal 1943ish by the time you get the civ reactor

And it has a MONSTROUS IC cost of like 25k or smth?

This is assuming you rush the civ reactor and decide you don't want the nuclear bomb

So why shouldn't the player be rewarded by going independent from coal energy?

Your literally allowing your enemies to beat you to WMDS which can just destroy the civ reactor anyway

[rocky escarp]

For 1943 how many breakthrough progress focuses will that take

[wispy peak]

2 breakthroughs if you rush it

You need to research the atomic tech which is roughly a 1940 tech

Use one breakthrough for nuclear reactor which takes about a year to 1.5 years depending on rng

Research construction 4 (Which you should do anyway thats not an issue)

Then use another breakthrough to research the civ reactor which again will take 1-1.5 years

• You then have to build the thing with an ic cost of 25000

You get one in the state the facility is in when the project completes at least

But depending on where thats built

Oh nvm the civ reactor has a ic cost of 35000 its absolutely insane

[brittle venture]

its like 20K iirc

its similar to a normal reactor

[wispy peak]

Just saw it on the wiki

35k

Its 5k more expensive than the standard reactor

[brittle venture]

also its kinda fake

you need construction 4 to even get it

so really its 40% less compared to construction 0

its still a lot but not that bad

[wispy peak]

Yeah its why I listed the base cost for reference

• Its mutually exclusive with other reactors

[brittle venture]

it still makes nukes

[wispy peak]

So if you already built normal reactors for nuke production your stuffed

[brittle venture]

civ reactors produce nukes lol

you get 2 things at once

[wispy peak]

Ik

But you cant build a civ reactor in a state that has a normal reactor

All reactors share the same one build limit per state

[rocky escarp]

You can rush 1943 civ nuclear reactors just through breakthrough progress from research?

No breakthrough progress bonuses from focuses required?

[wispy peak]

Provided you have 2 breakthroughs one for nuclear reactor and another for civ you can rush it

Focuses can assist that by providing % breakthroughs

The civ reactor definitely isnt a bad building but with its IC cost and assuming you rush it I feel like it should reward you late game BECAUSE its a late game tech its the entire point of it

You are purposefully staving off your nuclear weapon production to get independent energy

[rocky escarp]

You don't get before 1943 with focuses do you?

[brittle venture]

you can

just research construction ahead of time and rush nukes

[rocky escarp]

So 1942 or how early

[wispy peak]

you gotta rush the atomic tech and construction 4

[brittle venture]

prob like 1941 if you really want to

maybe earlier

[rocky escarp]

That's interesting

[brittle venture]

some nations can get nukes pretty early

just the projects take a bit

[wispy peak]

Construction 4 is 1941 tech and atomic research is 1940

[brittle venture]

usually you have priorities like having an army

[brittle venture]

thats like fake

theres a bunch of 1-2 year ahead of time and 100%+ bonuses for nuke tech

[wispy peak]

So assuming a big rush with average bonuses you can probably commence the civ reactor project in 41 if you get good rng on the nuclear special project

[brittle venture]

so its more like 1938/39 tech

same for construction

ofc you dont do this with no bonuses thats not how the game is played

[wispy peak]

Jeez dude all I said was its a 41 tech and it is thats hardly saying fake man

Chill lol

[brittle venture]

no no im just trying to explain

sorry if i sound rude

[rocky escarp]

Yeah well obviously no one says civ nuclear reactor to bolster your current states' resource extraction and building slots is better than just conquering someone

[brittle venture]

like as in dont look at tech times too much, rather look how fast nations can get it

[wispy peak]

It came across a little snippy lol yeah if you have good construction bonuses from focuses you can rush it efficiently

But thats tree by tree basis

[brittle venture]

not every build works for everyone 🤷

like for example best rocket rush nation is iran because they get the earliest buff to it

[wispy peak]

The one thing I didnt take into account is you also have to build the facility as many older and smaller trees have their facility quite late

Or just no facility spawn

[brittle venture]

try argentina

[wispy peak]

Luckily that doesnt take long but its easy to forget

[brittle venture]

you have a dam state, decent eco and your hitler-fascist path has nuke buffs

otherwise just germany/usa should be the best

[wise oxide]

paradox is getting smarter by listening to the community more

win win for everyone

[rocky escarp]

Not smart enough for the oil power proponents apparently

[wispy peak]

Yeah imo it would be fine for civ reactors to generate some energy with it being on average a late tech

Especially given on ahistorical the game can start REALLY kicking off sometimes in 38 lol

Usually via mexico

[rocky escarp]

Well I only play to defend Czecho-Slovakia so 1938 war every game

Not that Civ Nuclear Reactor is viable for tall gameplay with needing to keep a viable army through techs

[autumn breach]

nah they only pretend to listen to the community
look at GOE and all the patches they released, its still a dogshit DLC even after 8 months

and to my knowledge they haven't said anything about the communities main concern which is the pricing

[rocky escarp]

No what they basically said is that more effort/resources on this DLC means more cost means higher price

Not that consumers are obliged to care about PDX's dev costs but that's the response

[brittle venture]

anyone whose studied japan/asian 20th century history knows its a nightmare

just most people havent

[rocky escarp]

Oh no I assumed that because they were doing all of energy system, doctrine system, faction system that they were spending more programming and game design resources on top of the usual national flavour reaearch

[brittle venture]

oh and the mechanics as well

[wispy peak]

Eh they kinda did it cause they got tons of backlash the coal system was extremely unfun and constricting as of current

It actively made the game worse

[rocky escarp]

Now that we know about NCNS, Thunder at the Gates will probably have a lower price than we thought if we only used GDR as an expectation for the price

Although I really don't think the acceptable response to 'country packs are rubbish as they give no mechanics' is 'we'll add mechanic to country pack and increase the price'

[wispy peak]

Some of the most subscribed mods rn are ones that reduce/remove the coal system lol

[polar jasper]

People will do everything to avoid learning new features

Oh no, i need to demobilize and build my 600th factory at only 20% speed and not 30%

[rocky escarp]

I still need to play past the end of the 1938 Czecho-Slovakia war to figure out if it'll affect my build mils from 1936 playstyle

I assume majority of problems are from people getting high factory counts from conquest or through civ greed optimisation

[polar jasper]

Dont the Czechs have a decent amount of coal

[rocky escarp]

Yeah but it's not gonna last forever for Czecho-Slovakia + you can't allow too many coal states to fall

I can't speak for whether the solution to the coal problem is just convert civs to mils, or if that's simply not possible for certain countries

I mean I'm stuck on <15 civs on Czecho-Slovakia because the country has no economy apparently (half-joke)

[polar jasper]

I think it is based on factory count, not mils or civs

10 mils = 10 civs. Not entirely sure

[rocky escarp]

Yes

So when you max out coal consumption you shift it to mil factories instead of keeping civs around

[polar jasper]

We converting civs into mils now

[brittle venture]

youre not playing a country affected by coal

besides that people might buy it

[rocky escarp]

Well it might not be a good idea you see

[rocky escarp]

Yeh

[polar jasper]

It's 1943, you built everything you need

[brittle venture]

its a good idea if you know the exact point in time you need to win the war

[polar jasper]

Have like 3 lines spare

[rocky escarp]

Hrm

[brittle venture]

it kind of falls off like 2 years in the future

maybe even 1 tbh

[rocky escarp]

I'd be surprised if the designers didn't consider that they should push the factory conversion feature more through this energy system

[rocky escarp]

For what it's worth I also need to figure out when while playing as UK / USA I will run out of coal defending Czecho-Slovakia

Or at least I assume you have to build mils from start to have enough equipment to fight that year (maybe for UK, USA has a ton of civs to maks up the difference)

I expect if I play the game properly I'll end the war before running out of coal but there's always the next one