latest-updates

[quiet smelt]

Anything else you do that I need to be aware of before testing it?

[dense gale]

U dont upgrade from gun 1 to gun 2

To keep effi

And u juggle industry 1

[quiet smelt]

define "juggle"

also laizze faire or the other side

[dense gale]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mC9TJbDpNrX5Xr0Lya45m8E2eU__bK_OVU7Q6jEe8s8/edit

I pasted a guide for you

Texh and focus all done for you

[dense gale]

U know where u juggle 30 days of texh?

And ignore part 4 of the table

Its the pp puck for elwolf

[quiet smelt]

Indulge me

[dense gale]

Wym indulge

Its kinda clear no

U save 30 days

And than swap research

U know that right

[quiet smelt]

aj

ah

i never heard someone call it juggle

you said you go conc yea? @dense gale

[dense gale]

Yes

[still forum]

Not only that

Right wing get it bonuses like right away

When getting factories from the leftist takes a lot more time

How much time does it take to get this 3x 150% bonus vs how much time does it take to get those factories?

And if you get those factories

How much time do you have left for fixing disjointed goverment and victors of first war

[quiet smelt]

You rush fixing gov then go to the factories tree

[still forum]

So you have lower industry for much longer time then

Like you dont touch this debuff which is like -20% construction speed and production

[quiet smelt]

Ur guide has silent workhose @dense gale

[quiet smelt]

I'm testing the total IC rn for both

[dense gale]

Its made for bba

[quiet smelt]

ill ignore that then

[dense gale]

And elwolfi

The top one with focus and pp pick is for vanilla

[still forum]

Not to mentoin +10% pp>>>>>>>>>+5% stab

Also matingnon debuff lol

[quiet smelt]

@dense gale When the events that fire up where you decide between communist support or losing stability what do you pick

[dense gale]

Commie

U cant tale stab hits

[quiet smelt]

A'ight so thats what I was doing while following ur guide

The -25% stability alongside with higher cmmunist support will still drop you to bellow 25% stability and trigger a civil war

[dense gale]

It doesn’t lmao

[quiet smelt]

I just ran it in base game

[dense gale]

U must have done something wrong

[quiet smelt]

Where else do you get stab hits?

[dense gale]

Bowhere else

[quiet smelt]

Yea

[dense gale]

U sit on 26% stability

[quiet smelt]

And I picked communists in gov and the -25%stabiliy decision

[quiet smelt]

I'm sitting on 24%

[dense gale]

U must have taken stab git somewhere

Everyone gets 26%

Cant be just u

[quiet smelt]

Frances stability base value is 50, it starts on 49% due to high communism

With rising communism decreasing that even less

[dense gale]

I have not once civil war

I dont think anyone has

U did something wrong

Run it again

[quiet smelt]

I'll run it again

[dense gale]

Unless it because of a dlc thinf

[quiet smelt]

I have all DLC

[dense gale]

U sit on 26%

[quiet smelt]

I'm gonna take ur word at it and give myself 2 stab with console commands, I'm sitting on 35% communism so I'm pretty certain I selected to give them seats intead of dropping stbaility every time

AH I SEE WHAT CAUSD IT

The guide takes improved worker conditions

[still forum]

Actually the left one is worse at everything lol

Not only democratic path is weaker

But also monarchist>>>>>commie

[quiet smelt]

@dense gale This focus isnt acconunted for in the build
also you fell from having enough war support to stay on partial mob but I used commands to make you keep it

You get rid of strengthen governments at war with it

[rain python]

Commie better

Monarchist overplayed

[still forum]

not better lol

a lot slower

[rain python]

More fun

Paris commune 😩

[quiet smelt]

@dense gale The guide also doesnt do go with britain, requring 80% to join the allies manually, war with poland only reaches it to 50%

[still forum]

it would be more fun if it would be at least equal

the time it takes to get commie is long not to mentoin fixing economy

no way wou will do it before sudetenland which is best time to fight germany

[rain python]

Why?

The best time to fight Germany part

[still forum]

because they are weaker compared to you than they will be later lol

[rain python]

Ah I see

[quiet smelt]

You get early mob in 36 for free via election event

[still forum]

not always the case

but its also same for right

[quiet smelt]

right delays electiont till 1940

every time I ran this so far france gets the same election event

[still forum]

no

have you ever played it?

[quiet smelt]

Yea, doing the right focus delays the elections

Im doing it rn

[still forum]

must be a mod

[quiet smelt]

base game

[still forum]

it dont delay elections

[quiet smelt]

if it doesn't delay it the event just didnt fire

or something else

because I certainly havent had it offer eraly mob

[still forum]

its not even connected to the elections at all

[quiet smelt]

gonna rerun it juts to see if the election event fires for the right path

Yeah just checked it doesn't delay it @still forum ur right

The event just never gives me early mob while running it as right patht ho

[quiet smelt]

O kurwa polak jebany

[still forum]

didnt do anything aside from clicking a focus to show it doesnt

[quiet smelt]

Kek

I guess I'm incredibly unlucky

OH

I REALISED WHY IT DOES IT

The right path replaces it with communists in gov

Guessing the left path just doesn't let it trigger because they already have them in go

[still forum]

It can fire for both

It's rng

[quiet smelt]

I've ran both twice now and each time it was the same events during the election

I'll run left path again xd

[still forum]

You can always get either commies event or partial mob

If you are lucky and play commie you can get this event you can rush disjointed goverment 2 focuses faster

[quiet smelt]

Ran it for a 3rd time

So far 3 times the left path gives early mob, and 2 times the right path gives communists in gov for the first election

either I'm incredibly lucky, its pre-set or its weighted so the percentgge chances are changed for each path

[still forum]

You are unlucky

[quiet smelt]

did you get early mob with the right path just?

[still forum]

Yes

[quiet smelt]

Fr? show

[quiet smelt]

wtf how is ur pp -120

[still forum]

declined rhineland

[quiet smelt]

Try run it without doing that

[still forum]

pointless

[quiet smelt]

I'm pretty sure the events aren't random but weighted on factors

[still forum]

they are random

[quiet smelt]

I've ran the left path 4 times and always got early mob

I dont remember ever in my life seeing the communist event fire with it

[still forum]

it was 1st my game as france

also when i did commies one it made it quicker to rush

[quiet smelt]

It could be weight like the same way what focuses the AI does is weight

I.e going commie france increases chances for other countries going alt hist

Same way election events can be weight

[still forum]

ive got commie on national block event as france only once

also pretty sure theres nothing in files about it

[quiet smelt]

There is stuff that checks if you have matignon agreements

and disables certain events and allows others

[still forum]

you get matingnon after elections anyway

[quiet smelt]

🤷‍♀️

Guess I'm incredibly lucky then

[quiet smelt]

@still forum @dense gale

Because you were worried about PP, I banked the PP i didnt use to get partial mob/civilian to millitary advisor and I have 250

Left path has produced more total IC than the right path

If you correct for the 6 months in which the right path didnt have early mob that brings them to 200k instead of 193k, which is still behind the left path in total IC by 15k

[still forum]

more pp means faster dude that gives +10% military construction speed

[quiet smelt]

This test also favours the right path from the fact produciton wasnt being swaped at all which makes the production efficency cap bonus on the right path

[quiet smelt]

The left path doesn't need him, they only need the civ to millitary refitter

The IC graph speaks for itself

[still forum]

it wastes the time by which you would be already producing

and 1 focus less on something better wasted

[quiet smelt]

Not really, the "optimal" right path built the dude sent requires you to do impring wokrer conditions

Whichw ill more or less just equal out the benefit of having the millitary construction guy

[quiet smelt]

You say this but the IC graphs speak for themself

[dense gale]

Early mob fure when italy is at war woth ethiopia

Its a 50 50 off when that happens

To get early mov event

[quiet smelt]

But yea

[dense gale]

Or commie event

[quiet smelt]

Total IC is there and the left path has it marginally higher

[quiet smelt]

ahhh

[still forum]

i dont trust at all this test to be accurate ngl

[quiet smelt]

Why

[still forum]

did you even go with right wing that got early mobilization?

[quiet smelt]

I told you I couldn't get it, also the early mob only has a impact ont he first year, you can ammend the data to match the left wing path for the first year then extrapolate forward with the growth the right wing path get and you will get to 200k by the time of 1939 august

[still forum]

so its unfair

you need to do it under same conditions

[quiet smelt]

I just told you how to extrapolate the data

I can re-run it till i get the event but the results will be the same as if the data was extrapolated

as the growth rate remains the game

The only diffrence is IC stockpiled by the first year

[still forum]

also its up to what were you building

[quiet smelt]

Its all millitaries

Its stated at the top of the graph

[still forum]

which is important lol

[quiet smelt]

all the limitations are

[still forum]

not only it changes consumer goods but also faster mil construction

[quiet smelt]

Yeah, except I told you that you can just extrapolate the data

Just for you I will re-run the nationalist path till I get early mob

[still forum]

its 20% construction speed difference lol

[quiet smelt]

Its for 6 months, it will be a 2 factory diffrence, plus like I said, extrapolating data

I'm re-running it again for you

[small pike]

early mob triggers with a 50% change when you have a war on your border on may 1st

[quiet smelt]

I'm running it again with early mob on the right wing path for france

@still forum @dense gale Ran it with early mob on both

Told you extrapolating the data will give roughly the same nuber, left path still has better total IC

Left path was even better when you could research facctory conversion bonuses, back then you could get it to be bassicaly instanty conversion

so you get to build mills for longer then convert ur civs to mills later

The myth that the right path is better comes from some people claimining its the best because there favourite youtuber said so and then going with it

Both paths can get partial mob getting involved in spain or atachee so they dont even differ much in that regard

Left path build had 30 civs and around 80 mills by the time ww2 started , right path had 55 civs and 66 mills

People are sleeping on conversions, 70% bonus with left path (advisor + dilgerism)

Plus I think is tarted reffiting too early ont he left path, since it lowed down quite a bit like 3 months befor ethe war

Not much diffrence but there is defently still area to minmax it more

[still forum]

By sudetenland it's better

It's best time to fight germany

Not to mentoin you'll be able to finnish more focuses

[quiet smelt]

If Ur fighting Germany at Sudetenland it's 1. Non hist
2. You beat Germany anyeays
3. Singleplayer

Also how's it better?

[still forum]

How's not lol

They have less divs compared to you than they would have in 39

They have to fight more enemies

Cant attack from benelux

Difference is huuugeeee

[quiet smelt]

I mean on path diffrences

[still forum]

In one war you are offensive and in one defensive

[quiet smelt]

IC for left and right wing by 1938 is the same roughly

[still forum]

Less focuses, better industry

[quiet smelt]

I just showed you how the industry is the same look at the graph

The total IC produced by Sudetenland is equal

[still forum]

If you can achieve something similiar but still on your advantage

And do it faster

Then it's better

[quiet smelt]

What

[still forum]

You have more time for literally anything else

[still forum]

Shtooooo

Yto

[quiet smelt]

You don't though

[still forum]

But you do

[quiet smelt]

How

[still forum]

Right path needs less focuses to fix eco

[quiet smelt]

The right path for a better eco needs to do it's focuses that add production cap

It's the same number of focuses

If you don't do it then you will have lower output and thus less IC

[still forum]

Right path needs one focus to half it and 2nd to remove it

With 1 focus because the starting one

The left one

Needs like 4 focuses

[quiet smelt]

What

[still forum]

And then even more

To get factori

[still forum]

Another stupid question and block

[quiet smelt]

That's not how it works, matignion agreements just times our by itself on the left parh

It's safe to remove for 50pp in 38

[quiet smelt]

No Ur just straight up wrong, Ur basing Ur idea of the right path having more time but it needs to do it's industry buffs to be compareable to the left paths more factories

[still forum]

How long is left industrial tree can i ask?

[still forum]

No your argument is trasg

It's not argument

[quiet smelt]

The same size as the right industrial tree

[still forum]

You say what

[quiet smelt]

I used the meta path for the right tree lol

Based of the guide the France main sent

[still forum]

The 2nd focus

Literally fixes eco for right

[quiet smelt]

It removes it after 2 years

It's a timer

[still forum]

And left one

Needs more

Lol

So yeah you do it faster

[quiet smelt]

Left one doesn't need more because your doing the industrial focuses of each path anyways

[still forum]

But it literally does because it's connected

[quiet smelt]

???

[still forum]

Right wing do it and go political

Left one go for disjointed gov

And then come back

To fix

[still forum]

Ok block

[quiet smelt]

If ur not doing the industrial focuses on the right path then ur literally going to have less IC than the left path every time

If you waste time doing other stuff u will be in a worse position for the war, no matter if you do sudetenland or danzig

[still forum]

????????

What

[quiet smelt]

Plus right path meta needs you to do improve worker conditions

[still forum]

????

[quiet smelt]

otherwise the lower stability will put you in civil war territory

[still forum]

What

[quiet smelt]

and the lower stability will mean less production

[quiet smelt]

Its all pretty simple really

[still forum]

????

[quiet smelt]

The IC graph shows it all mate

If you dont do the industrial focuses for the right path as the meta guide said you have to do then you straihgt up will be off completely worse at every point

[still forum]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

[quiet smelt]

I dont know what ur confused about

[quiet smelt]

Ur missing the entire rest of the right wing industrial tree

which has the produciton cap bonuses

Which are needed

[still forum]

left one have 6x 70 days focuses and right one have 3

[quiet smelt]

You can run a IC test urself and see that ur idea is worse off

[quiet smelt]

Except it doesn't, you also need to do

[still forum]

?????????????????????????

[quiet smelt]

Otherwise ur economy is worse

[still forum]

which you dont have to

unlike left one

[quiet smelt]

What else are you gonna do?

[still forum]

where you are forced to

[quiet smelt]

Whatever ELSE you do, you will have a worse industry

[still forum]

you now can do anything else

[quiet smelt]

And?

Ur industry will be worse if you do anything else

[still forum]

and its worse because you have no choice

6 needed for left

3 needed for right

to get default

and now you focus on inviting factions

and fixing victors of great war

which is totally impossibile for left one

[quiet smelt]

Righting meta requires you to go for intervention in spain which reduces stability by 25% which reduces production by 10%, they need to do thoes 2 other focuses to offset it while laso doing improve worker conditiosn which gives temporary production debuff

[still forum]

whats your meta lol

[quiet smelt]

Victors of the great war isn't that important at fixing, the right wing meta doesn't do it

[still forum]

who even intervere in spain during sudetenland

which will waste your eq lol

[quiet smelt]

@still forum From Murkesha

If ur doing sudetnland you are playing singleplayer and it doesn't matter

No MP rules allow for that

[still forum]

yeah so its objectively so much better its banned

[quiet smelt]

and if ur not intervening in spain you have to either spend 100 for attache

or you wont have enough war support for partial mobilization

[quiet smelt]

Except the left path can also do sudetnalnd

and have more IC than the right ptah

[still forum]

yeah you dont because no time for it

[quiet smelt]

IC = produciton units

Bigger IC = bigger army

[quiet smelt]

Then you dont get partial mob

[still forum]

and be worse at everything

[quiet smelt]

and ur build gets even WORSE industry

[still forum]

a little bit worse industry is worth those focuses to spend on something better

[quiet smelt]

Wdym, it literally has a bigger army, bigger industry, more millitary factories

[still forum]

which objectively doesnt matter

because by the time you get them

war is too soon to make them matter much

[quiet smelt]

"little bit"
your build only has early mobilization instead of partial, ur build has less factories, ur build has less produciton cap and output

[still forum]

yeah at the cost of lose eq in spain

[quiet smelt]

When I extrapolated before I had the right number and doing it again with ur build, you'd have 25% less IC output by the time of sudetnland

[still forum]

and time on it

[quiet smelt]

at best

[quiet smelt]

Left path doesnt send voulenteers to spain

You can just do attache

right path doesnt need to send voulenteers, they do intervention in spain to get war support decision

[still forum]

nice way to spend 100 pp

[quiet smelt]

You still dont lose equipment doing it

[still forum]

bro you didnt even know that right wing get elections

[quiet smelt]

yeah 100 pp to get partial mobilization in early 1937 is extremely strong

Instead of being stuck of early mob

[still forum]

no

[quiet smelt]

5% consumer goods and 10% millitary factory construction

yea

lmfao

[still forum]

its better to cancel rhineland

and get free pass

[quiet smelt]

At this point ur meming

No multiplayer game allows denying rhineland

[still forum]

idc

its stronger

you are meming

[quiet smelt]

And doing it in Singleplayer is stupid becaues if germany goes to war you have a civil war

[still forum]

no

it wont

and even if

thats easiest war with germany

lol

[quiet smelt]

1936 war with germany always causes civil war

[still forum]

but it have like 5% to happen

[quiet smelt]

Its coded into the game

[still forum]

but germany almost never backs down lol

and this is 1 state civil war

[quiet smelt]

Ur entire strategy is mathmatically worse

And not allowed in multiplayer

[quiet smelt]

Its not

[still forum]

yes it is

[quiet smelt]

Its always the same

[still forum]

it is calais only

[quiet smelt]

No, they also spawn in brittany

wait

[still forum]

no

[quiet smelt]

wait its not brittany

gonan test it real quck

[still forum]

omg you can have 2% better economy!!!!!!11111 at the cost of wasting 3 more focuses you could spend on inviting nations

you can get factory in late 37

when you get war in mid 38

[quiet smelt]

At the point ur playing non-hist games with no rules ur strategy doesn't matter

because then the best path is the monarchist one no question

[still forum]

the little entente is because nobody would help you in such mp game as napoleon \

you wouldnt ever get the uk

[quiet smelt]

in mp games denying sudetnland is banned always

alongside rhineland

[still forum]

not always

[quiet smelt]

You keep flip flopping betwene sp and MP

[still forum]

theres literally whole alt hist mp list

[quiet smelt]

On this discord always

Alongside every other discord

[still forum]

no

[quiet smelt]

the only times thats not banned is in meme games

that die in 38

[still forum]

theres literally whole list of alt hist mp

and if you go on rules

then most of mp historical games are modded

to balance them out

you first cry its not better at all on sudetenland and then you kinda agree with it but noooooooooo it doesnt matter

all i have to say

is

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[quiet smelt]

No MP rulset allows sudentland denial

and even then the left path will have more IC

If you do sudetnland war and you didnt send vouelnteers to spain or attache for xp then getting rid of victors of the war doesnt mater cuz u wont have xp for doctrines anyway

[still forum]

Yeah brother

I agree with you

It's 100% better

Popular front is so good choice

[terse slate]

Does anyone know what’s the name of the latin america dlc gonna be ?

Well, south america

[still forum]

Probably will be different than anyone expected

[terse slate]

lmao imagine a random ass name

[still forum]

Just like nobody thought nordics will be "arms against tyrrany"

[terse slate]

lol

tirany

I think

idk either

[still forum]

No idea

Snakes against colonialism

[terse slate]

LMAOO

i’d hope it be something in spanish

[still forum]

Ngl cant wait for brazil and argentina

[terse slate]

Im more enthusiastic for colombia and peru

🤩

[still forum]

I doubt it

They only did so for la resistance

But everyone who knows english will guess what that mean

[terse slate]

Yeah and thats french

[still forum]

Not a chance for something complicated

[terse slate]

I’d imagine if they’re doing an entire continent where almost everyone speaks either spanish or portuguese. They’d do a spanish one

[terse slate]

Man, even dumb usa citizens know a couple spanish words

And some spanish words are similar to portuguese ones

[still forum]

I hope they will give voices for mexican units

[terse slate]

« PENDEJO »

[still forum]

Imagine venezuela getting some native american voices

Or more like peru

Ecuador

[terse slate]

All latin americans are native americans

At least like half of their dna is native american

[wicked path]

Try to ask @vestal scaffold and then @terse slate one is modder, second mexican 😄

heheheh

[terse slate]

ill give my voice for it

[wicked path]

@devs

hehe

[terse slate]

[still forum]

they should do something for ukraine and belarus

like why does silesia and kashubia have unique leader portraits but ukraine and belarus dont

[terse slate]

I think first they should have focus tree for actual existing countries

Then focus on releasable ones

[still forum]

Well imo

[terse slate]

Here we go

[still forum]

I rather have some little half generic tree for ukraine and belarus over bhutan

[terse slate]

True true

[still forum]

Also because they can break off during russian civil war

[terse slate]

Yeah that’d be cool to see

[still forum]

But minimum is imo leader portraits

Which could be made instead of those from kashubia and silesia that came at same dlc

[terse slate]

It’s also hard to have all 4 leaders since not all countries had 4 political parties yk

[still forum]

At least 1 default democratic one

Although bandera could also exist

Cuz reichckomisariat

[terse slate]

Like some were under authoritarianism and could only have 2 parties. Or some had so many parties that categorizing them into just « democracy, fascism, communism, neutral » is pretty hard

[terse slate]

Not all countries had democracy

[still forum]

Well by default they are democratic if you release them/they break off during russian civil war

[chrome nymph]

5 days boys

[still forum]

Karelia got one but from aat

[terse slate]

And some politics in special countries would be very hard to place

[chrome nymph]

5 days until update

[terse slate]

Oh balkans probably. I meant other random countries

[still forum]

I mean just ukraine and belarus

[terse slate]

For example, would you consider democracy if the ex-leader put up his 10 children and let the people vote for who would be next?

In theory that’s a democracy. But it could also be considered a monarchy

[terse slate]

Oh then nvm lol yes youre right in that case

[still forum]

That's not modern democracy though

[terse slate]

Well no but i meant it as, that actually happened in countries durint ww2, so it’s really hard to put them under 4 main ideologies

you can’t just say « this is fascist and this is democratic »

Yeah but those enter into the communists ones

[still forum]

I meant modern day

But lets not talk about modern politics

[terse slate]

Lol

[still forum]

Can get ban for it

[terse slate]

Really?

Well, makes sense

[still forum]

They should add more states that break away during russian civil war

Like the siberian one

Yakutia and chukotka for example reblled once and probably could do it again

[paper estuary]

Going for something that sounds almost identical both in Spanish and in Portuguese would be smart

[terse slate]

thats what im sayiinnggggg

[still forum]

but its different accent

[terse slate]

so what?

Written has no accent

lol

[paper estuary]

No problem with that
Whoever reads will read their way, but it would be written as a mutually comprehensible name

I wonder what the soundtrack will be like? 🤔

[small pike]

You are yapping about shit and dont know how to juggle tech?

😂

[small pike]

💀

[quiet smelt]

Not my guide

[quiet smelt]

I knew what it was when you explained it, I never heard someone call it juggle

[small pike]

That you dont take improved worker conditions as france is 💀

The guide is good

How do you map out that ic graph if i may ask?

[quiet smelt]

Not sending voulenteers means you don't have to, you can do the left path and go do intervention in Spain the same way and the IC will be minimal

[small pike]

Cause you seem to be critically unaware of alot of things but somehow have to have an opinion on matters you dont fully grasp

[small pike]

Not sending volunteers is death

[quiet smelt]

Delete production day 1 as well as stockpile, reset production to make 1936 rifles.
Track number produced

[small pike]

Your 5% more output dont do shit if you got 20% less stats 💀

[quiet smelt]

You can go to partial mob with voulenteers on left path as well, you get it at the same time as the right one roughly then, the difference in IC produced is minimal

Left path will still have more total output

And more total millitary factories

[small pike]

Right is just better

Who told you that

Also going left is just a france ban in mp

[quiet smelt]

The fact I ran this many time and having 80 mills is better than having 60

[small pike]

Cause you donate factories to germany

Id be so happy to have you as my france as germany like 50 civs in mainland is the dream

[quiet smelt]

Like I said before it's a case of people not realising the left path is good cuz they were always told to just go right

[quiet smelt]

But my France build has 20-30 cibs

It's about destroying Ur civs and going all into millitary

[small pike]

Thats even more based ngl

[quiet smelt]

Which gets you a larger gun stockpile and makes the game harder for Germany

[small pike]

Civs dont pay anyways

[quiet smelt]

If your doing all in on holding it's better and denied Germany civs

[small pike]

So i just get 50 mills for free from you?

[small pike]

You are stupid

Civs dont do shit when they just get juciy effi on their tank line

[quiet smelt]

Well it's not free since this path is the easiest to defend France as because of the more IC

[small pike]

I will just oneshot you bro 😭

[quiet smelt]

Btw I just opened my calculations file there's a error in the formula
There's meant to be a x2 instead of /2
Ie. The IC difference is quadruple

Since the IC prod is 0.5

[quiet smelt]

How so, you haven't shown how the right path is better

[small pike]

Shocking

[quiet smelt]

Left path has more IC and can do either voulenteer or attaché

It's not like it can't do general grindinf

[small pike]

More ic in mainland if anything

But it doesnt have more ic

[quiet smelt]

How so

[small pike]

You are some determind yapper

[quiet smelt]

The thing is it has about as many factories in mainland as Ur build since it focuses on converting civs to mills

[small pike]

Strong bro

I got no factories in mainland

I build them all in africa

With my conc 3 tools 3 and 10% cap

😭

[quiet smelt]

Where do you think I was building them

[small pike]

right side is still more ic why are you building in algeria

You are slotcapped till conc 3

[quiet smelt]

It's not tho

I showed the IC graph

[small pike]

I dont care that you did

[quiet smelt]

My dude the maths is there

[small pike]

The maths the difference is so minute you cant even see what is stronger

[quiet smelt]

The IC testing method also favours cap bonuses instead of flat factories so the right path has a advantage

[quiet smelt]

I did say before it's been times by 0.5 instead of 2

The gap is quadruple from my mistake it looks smaller

[small pike]

You put mills on basic heavys my bro

[quiet smelt]

Why would you think that

Also that's just a personal attack and nothing about the industrial testing

[small pike]

💀

I can assure you that i could make my test and that right side would win

But i have a life

So i wont do that

[quiet smelt]

I'm telling you bruh, the IC will be lower

[still coral]

Naval warfare enthusiast, I need help with navy

Battleship or battle cruiser

[quiet smelt]

What techs higher level?

[still coral]

Same year

1936

[quiet smelt]

Build battleship and ram it with guns

[still coral]

What should I use battle cruiser for then?

[quiet smelt]

Not having the dockyards to build enough battleships

You want around 4 screens per capital ship, if you have a shitton of destroyer's but not enough capitals you can build battle cruisers and other lighter hulls

[still coral]

I see, thanks

[quiet smelt]

The only advantage of them is that they are faster to build and still provide hard attack

[small pike]

There is no advantage armor and piercing are the second most important thing in navy

[quiet smelt]

High piercing comes with having the biggest guns anyways
Armour is not worth being built, with the cost to refit a ship to have better armour or to just built a ship with slightly better armour is not worth it, that production can be better spent elsewhere

You want ideally 5 carriers, as many capitals as you can, and a shitton of destroyers to screen

And yea 5 carriers not 4, the way the carrier overstacking applies is weird.
It stops 20% of planes flying in sorties however it doesn't actually count planes, it counts air groups.
If you have 4 carriers with nothing but naval bomers, and the 5th carrier in the list (specifically has to be the 5th one down in the battlegroup its important!) will have naval bombers, and 1 of each Fighter/CAS.

This increases air groups from 5 to 7
7*0.8=5.6, the game drop sthe decimal so you can have 5 full air groups in the air

And beacuse the game selects planes by simply going down the list, its gonna be all the naval bombers going on sorties and not the fighters or CAS that are there just to add air groups
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Naval_battle

[small pike]

my point is that to counter shbb you need shbb

and thank you for lecturing about carriers

not like i knew that myself

and please dont use the wiki

that shit is outdated as hell

[dense gale]

i think ur info is outdated

the current meta is to spam light attack armoured cruiser

and have shbb capitals

[rugged plank]

that doesnt work. u need ap-bomb-cas on the 5th carrier, and then have the navs and fighters be over the limit

[quiet smelt]

thats what i said

[rugged plank]

because u cannot switch the airwimgs order on the carrier

[quiet smelt]

the game always counts naval bombmers as first in the order

[rugged plank]

no

it counts cas as first

[quiet smelt]

you can try it on japan right now, remove all planes from the carrier and re-add them

then get it into a naval battle

[rugged plank]

u need e.g. 40 cas, 10navs 10 fighters

[quiet smelt]

the naval bombers will go on the mission no matter the order

[still forum]

Omg

[rugged plank]

pretty sure its cas first

[still forum]

This dude still goes over lol

[rugged plank]

?

[still forum]

Why do i even get info that someone blocked is sending messages

[quiet smelt]

Nah, you can see the order of in which the game takes planes into it from inside the game, naval bombers get put above CAS iirc

[rugged plank]

also the meta is 6 carriers cuz then the 6th one can tank and provide fighters

especially when u have some old battleship convert lying around anyways

[quiet smelt]

Fighters being able to fly airwings even whith the debuff is so silly

Idk why paradox didnt fix it

[rugged plank]

navy as a whole is silly

[quiet smelt]

Cry about it

[rugged plank]

u can beat about 95% of naval players just by selecting conceilement expert, making 4 carriers with 1938 planes on them and not massively f*** things up

i literally see usa players deathstacking submarines, and japan players with empty carriers…

[quiet smelt]

Most players just deathstack navies and dont think about it

[rugged plank]

yeah

[quiet smelt]

Also how useful is having a fighter carrier then

I never actually do that because well, it does no damage

[rugged plank]

not too much

cuz i think there is no disruption in carrier combat

[still forum]

[rugged plank]

but they shoot down a decent amount of planes and if its a battleship convert, it can also tank quite a lot

and ofc the 5th carrier gets to have 10 more navs

[quiet smelt]

Huh I looked at it, @rugged plank We are both right about the planes you can put on the 5th carrier

[rugged plank]

oh, fighters also seem to be less affected by storms

[quiet smelt]

The game sorts it from first added to last by type

so if the first plane you add is a naval bomber it will be the 5th air group

If its CAS then CAS will be the air group

[rugged plank]

nah pretty sure it alwys sorts cas first

try

send me a screen where its other way round

[quiet smelt]

Gonna stick it in combat and see what happens

[rugged plank]

but 1940 cas is better than same navs anyways

just more expensive

[quiet smelt]

japan starts with 4 carriers

epic

gotta wait for this to finish building

[quiet smelt]

Fr?

[rugged plank]

britain with 5

[rugged plank]

yeah 5% more damage, 25% better targeting

but also like 30% more expensive

so one or two extra mills

[quiet smelt]

Honestly thats worth it

[rugged plank]

but also no need to research the second torpedo…

yeah for britain or japan it is

maybe even usa

depends on how much u need it i guess

u can also do cas with 2 ap bombs that doesn decently well

also… naval battle wiki article got reworked finally

and do u know if the calculations for aa damage reduction are correct?

cuz if so then fleet aa seems to be more important than individual ship aa… at least for flat damage reduction

[still forum]

Do it i'm tired of bs

[quiet smelt]

@seb

The beagle is the one with a fighters, CAS and naval bombers

The naval bomber being shot down means they are going on sorties

[rugged plank]

bro its night

no man

u take losses even on 0% sortie efficiency

[quiet smelt]

Fr/

?

[rugged plank]

sortie efficiency only affects damage

[quiet smelt]

Huh didn't know that

[rugged plank]

ustill lose planes to both aa and air

thats why carriers get fd so hard when engaging during storm

cuz they lose half their navs before the weather clears up

[quiet smelt]

The naval bombers of it dealt damage

[rugged plank]

uh

do u have planes on all the other carriers?

[quiet smelt]

yep

I added 10 on each as you can see in the screenshot

[rugged plank]

oh so u did manage to put cas on top

[quiet smelt]

thats naval bomber son top

[rugged plank]

ah

[quiet smelt]

Didnt try ordering it with cas yet

[rugged plank]

sry thats what i meant

[quiet smelt]

pretty sure cas will be in the battle instead if I rearange it

[rugged plank]

yeah

iirc it used to be always cas on top

but maybe im wrong

[quiet smelt]

The first tie I found out about it, it was from reddit and someone saying it works with naval bombers

[rugged plank]

can u just head into the battle screen, wait til its daytime and check the cas wing?

cuz it should always be 0 then

[quiet smelt]

hold on I just sank the entire US navy

gonna have to reload

[rugged plank]

xD

[quiet smelt]

@rugged plank this time i ordered it with CAS above naval bombers and CAS is doing damage

[rugged plank]

and navs are not

[quiet smelt]

Now the 5th naval bomber is innactive

[quiet smelt]

yea

[rugged plank]

oke

[quiet smelt]

It depends which one you add to the list first

it seems

[rugged plank]

well… thats good to know

[quiet smelt]

I never knew it worked with CAS, I am going to have to try it out now in MP, thanks xD

[rugged plank]

yeah, cas can get much better targeting with divebreaks

[quiet smelt]

Them adding more torpedos has kinda hurt naval bombers didnt it?

[rugged plank]

and u never reach 100% targeting so its always worth it to increase it wherever u can

[rugged plank]

idk

maybe

but i think its ok

also torp 2 is so much better than torp 1…

oh if u want sth interesting to test and play around with…

the calculations for spotting submarines with sub detection have a ^3 in them

so with values of like 40 or higher u should start to spot subs at ridiculous speeds

[quiet smelt]

It looks like bomb locks have same targeting to torpedo?

wait

im stupid

Wait nvm I'm not

I dont see how CAS is better?

More planes get stopped due to worse agility and all targetting stats are 4, am I missing something

[polar jasper]

You can slap multiple AP bombs and only 1 torpedo

Each new plane airframe allows more AP bombs which is better than the new torpedo techs

You can slap dive brakes on your CAS too and not your carrier NAVs

Just make your carrier CAS have 2 engines to hold the weight

Tac Bombers with torpedoes are better, but for carriers, CAS is better I believe

[small pike]

Torp 2 navs are better

[quiet smelt]

Ah I see

[opaque flare]

It tries to mimic the IRL ww2 efficiency.

Carrier based torpedo bombers were more efficient in early war, but carrier-based dive bombers started to outperform them later at war as anti-air and carrier based fighters improved.

I like carrier CAS beacuse it can perform land attacks from stationary carriers, too. It's helpful in China early and later during island hopping, too

[waxen valve]

yooo whaat price on monthly subscription went up double holy

[wheat fulcrum]

Damn tf

Glad I decided to just pick up some dlcs

[opaque flare]

Yeah, they made a sneaky to make 3-month option more attractive.

People (me included) used to suggest subscription as an option for those who only play a few month a year, But with new prices it's a much less appealing option now

I know that Covid stimulus checks forced prices for everything in the US to go overdrive, but the rest of the world is not US, and our prices / wages stayed roughly the same and are not growing as much. Every subscription going up every few months is nuts.

[waxen valve]

Ye it’s expensive

What does the DLCs even cost to buy

[jaunty yacht]

It used to be around 6-12 dollars in my country and overtime the newer DLC's used to lower towards the 6 making a staircase
But now every DLC is 16-17 excluding DoD which is 8

[visual willow]

i mean rn the dlc are still better then buying the dlc over a year-long period

[floral cradle]

upcoming dlc bouta go hard asf

[still forum]

I remember dlcs for 80 zł

Now they are 92

Which is very overexpensive

Which is something like 20 dollars

23 actually

[still forum]

The bad thing is you will have to rebuy them over and over

[visual willow]

yeah, which is a bad thing after more then ayear

[terse slate]

JUST TWO MORE DAYS FOR SOUTH AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WOHOOOOO

🎉🎉🇧🇷🇧🇷💪💪

BRAZIL NUMERO UM

[crimson violet]

🤓 ☝️ uhm acshkually with very high possibilities it's going to be just the official announcement of the dlc, obviously the dlc per se will probably come out late 2024

[quartz prism]

BRASIL MENCIONADO 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷

[terse slate]

shutup albania, thats why you're not getting your dlc

[paper estuary]

I do hope Albania gets their own focus tree one day...

But yeah, get wreckt, Brazil first baby 🇧🇷🔥

[paper estuary]

Heck yeah, another opportunity to tell the devs the Czechoslovakia tree needs some proper content

[torn dawn]

Japan needs a rework as well

[visual willow]

almost all trees pre LaR need complete reworks

[rugged plank]

i hope hoi5 comes out before that happens

[still forum]

Lar also needs rework

Even the best one

Spanish

Needs to be modernized

Looks huge but paths are actually tiny

You'll run out of focuses in like 1941+ they are very unbalanced compared to each other

France needs total rework imo

Unbalanced, unhistorical and boring

Portugal is also meh but acceptable

But total lack of generals for portugal is less acceptable

[polar jasper]

When you have to pick shooting yourself in the foot or getting chad buffs for democratic paths

What do people tend to pick?

[slim moat]

Death or dishonor needs proper content thogether with most of the commonwealth and maybe even China, Japan absolutely needs content, Germany and USA also need Content, every dlc that came out before man the guns feels bad and yet we are still paying full price, either make them base game or make them good

[mental heart]

What is LaR? 😅 I’m French so maybe it’s another thing in my language 😅

[visual willow]

I see LaR as more needing big updates then completely new trees from the ground up

[visual willow]

La Resistance
The france/spies dlc

[visual willow]

yet we are still paying full price
Only an actual dumbass buys them offsale

[mental heart]

Oh yes, thank you 😊

[slim moat]

Yes there is discounts but you still have to pay the full price just with a discount (Yeah duh that's how a discount works I know)

[visual willow]

Yeah but the discount is the actual price. As that is the price that's actually being paid

[still forum]

Yeah that's definition of bad design

One path is straight up better and more fun than other

[still forum]

I mean excluding the spain i believe they would have to rework france from the ground

As probably only military tree and some alt hists would remain similiar

But eco and political trees would need overhaul

[still forum]

And still would need big changes

Spain tree is mostly ok but still needs a serious changes

Every pre nsb tree needs to be basically redesigned

[solid gyro]

when arab focus trees

i need it

[visual willow]

maybe next year

[strange mantle]

Turkey tree is slow

[still forum]

Wanna next ethiopia?

[solid gyro]

When is san morino focus tree 🤔

[little canyon]

Nah only Pre Lar and even some of them don't need it, the only ones that I think really need a rework are:
Germans: They need some new modifiers in the tree and maybe some SS content (right now the SS/Heer choices are really a non-factor and do nothing),
Japan: Not enough flavor and the Manchu puppet tree could be so much more interactive, Manchu gets special puppet levels which could be very interesting.
The commonweath countries could do with some extra focuses they are all short and not much besides research bounuses,
Czchs: Their political paths are really bland with no flavor at all.
Most other nations and even the Generic focus tree could do with more 35 day focuses: Why does it take 70 days to get just army xp or 1 50% reduction to Air doctrine cost.
But its not really that many when you consider how many focus trees there are in the game

[solid gyro]

what.

[still forum]

Trollface

You are like franklin getting roasted by lamar

Who's only reply is "what"

[still forum]

No a lot of them needs to be redesigned because their design is simply outdated and shortening focuses barely does anything

The fact is that usa france uk trees are very outdated

France dont even have right leaders

They are very small and bad compared to a lot of micro unimportant minors

Baltics have better industrial and political tree

I said baltics

About france

Terrible industry path

Inaccurate

Monarchies are very poor

Communist is full with long fillers to make it larger but basically is pointless due to that,

Democratic tree is even bad for flavor as it lacks something as fundamental as accurate leaders

Military tree is ok but not very good neither

It have ok choices like little entente or stressa front and pointless but historical appeasment

I wont even talk about the rest as they are even worse

Portugal is ok tree for what's it is

[little canyon]

I don't see any reason to redesign any of their focus trees they are all unique and useful

France industrial path is bad but then france has quite alot of starting civs at 43 ish UK gets somewhere in the 30s same for Germany and then Italy/Japan are in the 20s so it balances it out

[still forum]

Yeah yeah yeah yeah

Ussr have even more civs

How's that argument

[still forum]

I see as they are outdated simple and bad

[little canyon]

Simple is fine Germany's Focus tree is good and simple not everything has to have a balance of power mechanic or loads of little bonuses thrown in everywhere same goes for the UK focus tree and USA. France is abit meh but still acceptable for me
The Germans just need a few new focuses for new mechanics like operatives thats all, like paradox added that sweden steel deal focus.

[still forum]

Thing is

Not

German tree is not good

[little canyon]

Well its pointless to argue with you

[still forum]

And it's not mechanics themselves but whole tree design

Reminder nsb didnt have balance of power

And only soviet union was full of boosts which werent little anyway but that's not what makes a tree good.

Small simple trees remove the choice

One thing is straight up better than other so you'll do it all time

No variety

You can focus on different things and master them but suck at others but in those tree there's no something like this

France is remove debuff and move to another

Germany is repeating same focuses all time

Rhineland 6 civs etc

Not that you can focus much more on eco tree

So just rush what's remaining

That's bad

[tacit sequoia]

add a parliament thing similar to the Europe in Flames mod that France has in it, to the USA and Great Britain

depending on which parties you want to rule, you promote choices within whichever by fearing people, promoting ideology, etc.

[fresh reef]

Adding a balance of power within sub-factions would be great for the major powers. For the UK it would be Labour vs Conservatie-Liberal Coalition and likekind in other nations to represent the maneuvering within an ideology.

[pure cipher]

boys

today we get South America

[tacit sequoia]

prolly ~9amEST/NYT

[strange mantle]

ive never played Trotsky USSR, is it fun?

[chilly scaffold]

Yeah

You can get war goal time down a ton with certain things

It’s also a way to speed run Soviet world domination

But honestly fun cause you can just invade anyone in like 10 days

[solid gyro]

Yearly thank you to Paradox for creating the thing that is currently known as the “Denmark Focus Tree”

[pliant bolt]

Kinda

[still forum]

I've never seen that

What i need overall are balanced choices

[tacit sequoia]

its supposed to be just a multiplayer mod but, its better than that lol

[still forum]

So you can do things in different way and still be as good

[tacit sequoia]

@still forum

[quick gull]

Any idea when they'll say what the teaser was for?

[young creek]

maybe Vietnam

[quick gull]

I mean, it will probably be South America, but I wonder when they'll say it

[young creek]

oh ok

[tacit sequoia]

Someone proved it was South America

[tacit sequoia]

It would’ve been French Indochina, not Vietnam, maybe future focus sure?

[quick gull]

It was obviously South America from like day 1, Brazil for sure due to The Smoking Snakes, and there was a picture of South America in the letters at the end. I just wonder when the reveal will be

[tacit sequoia]

Yeah it was Venezuela Columbia Peru and Brazil in letters

Though I’m wondering if it’s gonna be all of South America or two different DLCs

Since they got the extra team now working with them

[quick gull]

I am inhaling the copium and hoping for a bit of a Japan re-work as well

[tacit sequoia]

Axis rework when? (mainly Germany Hungary Romania Czechoslovakia)

Possibly Austria also

[quick gull]

I mean Japan is a part of the Axis 😄 But I get your point

[tacit sequoia]

EACPS and Axis need rework

[quick gull]

🤝

[cosmic falcon]

True.

[storm ermine]

When do we find out what the teaser was for

[solid gyro]

11 AM est. gotta translate that into your time zone

[storm ermine]

k

yippie

[gusty saddle]

Pizza

[storm ermine]

is it gonna be announced by like a youtube video or something or just in the launcher\

[gusty saddle]

Hoi4 devs need to add Lichtenstein

[storm ermine]

real

[gusty saddle]

Rt56 only has so much

See?

I only get Central Europe in 1942

Lichtenstein needs to be buffed

[storm ermine]

😔

[gusty saddle]

But ngl Lichtenstein update would be sick

They have the biggest focus tree for it

@storm ermine how ur day

[storm ermine]

it will be good at 11 am

hbu

[gusty saddle]

Not good

Got graded for test that I didn’t take since I wasn’t there then

And threw my grades in the gutter

[storm ermine]

oof

[gusty saddle]

Yeah

I would’ve had a 80 now I have a 30

[solid gyro]

YouTube

[sleek river]

https://youtu.be/4iBXgrDqvn0?si=DudLJ9fSh1j0WheM

[storm ermine]

if its a dlc is it gonan be released right away

like does that normally happen

or no

[dense gale]

no its an annoucment of the first dev diary

just like aat

[sleek river]

they usually get revealed around autumn so it is quite irregular

[dense gale]

this is gonna be a bfb kind of dlc

there wont be new gameplay mechanics

[sleek river]

it took a year for bfb to be developed so they have evidently increased the workload or efficiency of the devs

[dense gale]

theres a new team

[sleek river]

rlly?

[dense gale]

working on focus content

yes

it was announced in the year end dev note

so biannual dlc might be a thing now

[sleek river]

i feel like they can at least rework guarantees or the war system

like the ai should be able to propose a peace deal unless they are a major

[dense gale]

too bad i guess

maybe the main dev team can finallt fix all this stuff

[sleek river]

well we still don't know what they're gonna do and the new team couldn't have cooked something up this quick knowing paradox

eu4 has bi annual dlc so this is great

[dense gale]

oh no there have been wokring on it for quite some time i think

the dev notes hinted they did the aat focus tress too

[sleek river]

oooh

[valid linden]

it will be realesed or just announced?

[old cypress]

Announced probably

[still forum]

It would be weird if they would release dlc without single dev diary

[grand fossil]

DLC wen?

[solid gyro]

YES

[solid gyro]

it was just announced

the NEXT DLC

[long ruin]

wtf dlc in march?

paradox needs money

[limpid yarrow]

I wonder whats gonna be the new mechanic? Artillery Design? Infantry Design? Human design?

[long ruin]

😂

[grand fossil]

where

[polar jasper]

Trial of Allegiance new DLC!

[haughty aspen]

Wooow

[polar jasper]

Allegiance*

[visual willow]

only 3 countries out of the entire "barren continent"??? rip hopefully the second devteam does the reworks quickly

small stuff with para- and uruguay ig

[solid gyro]

lets hope both

[visual willow]

seems to be a BftB type dlc so far

but... needlessly more expensive?

[dapper fjord]

hmmm.. I think the dlc would be same as Bosporus one?

[solid gyro]

i hope they add artillery and infantry designers

[wet cloud]

probably

[haughty aspen]

So the new countries with the new DLC's are Brazil, Argentina, and Chile.

I am hoping that they will include Venezuela and Colombia. I feel those countries would be the most important to add as well.

[dapper fjord]

Ohh man with Argentina and Chile.. let's go naval race pt. 2 :v

[visual willow]

qua design yes
qua price, apparently not

unless there is amechanic not mentioned in the description which i don't think happens usually>?

[visual willow]

nope, seems that they will only update 5 countries (with 2 having only "minor" additions)

[haughty aspen]

😭

[wet cloud]

Yeah, i wanted a bit of attention to my country (Colombia) but i guess there is no so much to work with (But i would say that Chile is the same, but who knows)

[solid gyro]

i hope they add artillery and infantry designers

[haughty aspen]

I would say for Venezuela since there is one achievement about making ships or a navy.

[wet cloud]

So... Only more focus trees and events

hmm, yes literalluy the same as Bospourus

[visual willow]

🤷‍♀️

except more expensive lol

and in the most irrelevant part in the game

[wet cloud]

deadge

[visual willow]

and only 3 countries get trees????

that's not enough to make the continent somehow interesting

[hasty rune]

I really hope some majors get remastered next update

[wet cloud]

Is that one for Colombia? or both? I know the Bolivar empire is for both but idk the other

[wet cloud]

agree

[haughty aspen]

I'm not sure. I know it's for Venezuela as of right now.

[amber barn]

15 usd for 3 uninteresting countries bruhhhhhhh

[visual willow]

the DLC will have the continent included in the description

those are the only countries that get trees

[hasty rune]

also, what does the "minor content" for Uruguay and Paraguay mean? hopefully if they get no focus trees it's not just some formable and finish

[visual willow]

achievments are no indicator since countries get DLC despite not being part of an dlc

[solid gyro]

hello

[haughty aspen]

Thankfully there is a new DLC within a short period of time, instead of having another one come out after a whole year.

[solid gyro]

who wants to see a Artillery and infantry designers

[visual willow]

let's not micromanage those things

[haughty aspen]

So this means that there should be another DLC coming out in the Fall season?

[amber barn]

Why are you repeating?

[solid gyro]

sorry

[static osprey]

We are going to Brazil

[amber barn]

Another 3 country dlc?

[wet cloud]

But to be honest honest, The NSB and mainly BBA are interesting for USRR and Italy reworks and the new features/mechanics but the countries with the new focus trees were not so good

[amber barn]

[visual willow]

what variety would you even want to see in arty and inf designers? they have even less to tinker with then planes

[haughty aspen]

I am not sure, just asking about Paradox's DLC launches.

[solid gyro]

becus i can then make SUPER OP stuff in SP

[visual willow]

NSB is the only dlc with straight up average "good" trees??

[amber barn]

This one was odd, I was waiting the dlc for the late months of the year

Rushed ah dlc

[solid gyro]

if there are Dev diaries about a arty and inf designers ill be HAPPY if NOT ill be PISSED

[visual willow]

sooo you want just more bussywork for no reason as SP is braindead already

[wet cloud]

well, AAT doesn't have that bad trees. And the rework for the UK in MTG was decent imo