hoi4-general

[patent thistle]

it depends on where you specialise them

[daring geyser]

40w would only work for urban

and attacking from more than one tile

which is not good at all

36w works with plains which is one of the most abundant terrains in europe (and the whole world) whilst still keeping decent stats in forests and deserts

[patent thistle]

i was mostly talking about 40W for a kind of cleanup force when needed

i dont use tanks often okay?

[daring geyser]

what do you mean by that?

[daring geyser]

i mean 36w is the meta not just for tanks but for attack infantry and for SFs too

except for mountaineers which you want to be 32w

[patent thistle]

for offensive infantry i usally never go over 30

[daring geyser]

thenn you're doing something wrong

[patent thistle]

i never go after meta anyways my guy

i just tend to use what works for me

[daring geyser]

its not even just meta it's just that telling someone to go 40w is just wrong

[patent thistle]

it was a mistake of mine okay fine i delete that

happy?

[candid pecan]

idk

i dont have them

even tho i did the research

[patent thistle]

what the hell georgia-

[candid pecan]

i want to bro

[dusky burrow]

oh wow

[daring geyser]

it's a special project

[dusky burrow]

in any case puppets love to do that

[candid pecan]

yeah i mean i did the special project

[daring geyser]

then you have to make a flame tank model

[dusky burrow]

do you have tank designer

[candid pecan]

yeah

lemme show u my template

[patent thistle]

average "horror" youtubers video be like:

[violet spire]

Put more armor clicks, and use Henschel

[candid pecan]

ok

[patent thistle]

you arent exactly what i would call a "greater hungary"

[candid pecan]

the speed is pretty low tho

idk if that matters

also reliability

is low

[daring geyser]

replace additional MGs with the turret thingy, max out armour ticks, swap diesel for gasoline and add torsion bar instead

[daring geyser]

your reliability is much bigger than it should be

[candid pecan]

i cant add any more turrets

[daring geyser]

reliability only takes into account attrition losses so as long as you don't have your tanks attritioning in malaria town it barely does much

[candid pecan]

also armour is maxed

[daring geyser]

i mean the small canon one

[candid pecan]

oh

[dusky burrow]

Yeah use that design, change the main gun for a flamethrower, and then change the role to flame tank

[patent thistle]

i usually would not recomment adding that much armour but idk

[candid pecan]

idk someone told me to max it

[daring geyser]

armor ticks are always good because it adds breakthrough

you need to max them out

the downside is lower reliability but reliability barely does anything

[patent thistle]

i just stay silent then. -_-

because clearly everything i say is wrong

[candid pecan]

uh

bro

what do i do when 3 people are telling me to max it and 1 person is saying not to

[patent thistle]

just dont listen to the one that is apperantly always wrong -_-

[daring geyser]

i rented an apartment on your head because i corrected you once

[candid pecan]

????????????

so if theres 1 million people telling me to do 1 thing

and just you telling me to do something else

ur always wrong

[daring geyser]

just max out the armor ticks

he's salty about me correcting him about combat width

[candid pecan]

yeah ik

[heavy vigil]

better

[candid pecan]

ok so is this good

[daring geyser]

i would just add the small cannon instead of the additional mg

and swap diesel for gasoline

then use torsion instead of christie

[neat kayak]

my god this wc is getting forever

cuz of the justification

only bc of Sweden

cuz they liberated the whole of africa

[brittle cypress]

u can't have 3 extra guns on a medium wdym

[neat kayak]

The world rn

[heavy vigil]

as a now ukraine player does this hurt you

[candid pecan]

thats what i thought

[daring geyser]

you can have 1 extra cannon

i mean replace one

[brittle cypress]

replace heavy mg with small cannon? /

crazy

[grizzled zenith]

What mod is that?

[daring geyser]

small cannon is straight up better tho

[brittle cypress]

nuh uh

[daring geyser]

or if i forgot how mediums work

[brittle cypress]

more expesnive

[daring geyser]

yuh uh

[brittle cypress]

not worth it

[daring geyser]

more expensive

[heavy vigil]

wdym

[daring geyser]

more stats

[brittle cypress]

it gives hard attack

that's a howitzer tank

[daring geyser]

it gives more soft

as well

[candid pecan]

bro idk if i can afford more anyway

[brittle cypress]

it's not efficient

[fading elk]

So I’m in a situation that makes endsieg look manageable

[grizzled zenith]

1973, Ukraine and Belarus independent, seems like a mod

[daring geyser]

it is efficient

it is barely more IC

[brittle cypress]

if it was so good why not replace both

[daring geyser]

cuz you can have only one

[brittle cypress]

what

that's not how that works

[candid pecan]

why is france and spain in comintern

[brittle cypress]

you can have two small cannons on a medium

[daring geyser]

i don't build mediums cuz i only play MP essentially

but if you can put two small cannons on a medium then just do it

it gives more soft

barely more ic

and more breakthrough

it is a worthwhile trade

and reliability is useless

there is no reason to not use it

[fading elk]

So tldr I did democratic Germany, I made the central euro alliance got almsot everyone in, invaded France when they flipped commie before they joined the Comintern and annexed them, then the Soviets declared on us

We actually got to push a bit in but then Italy declared on us

And then Japan

[candid pecan]

reliability is good i thought

[fading elk]

[daring geyser]

only affects attrition losses

[fading elk]

The us joined us and the facist uk is buddies

[daring geyser]

just don't have your tanks in malaria town for 2 years and you're fine

[candid pecan]

ok

[daring geyser]

and don't click into marshes or mountains etc

[brittle cypress]

it's a singleplayer tank, singleplayer players odn't know how to not have their tanks in red supply for 3 months and also rely on training the tanks for xp

[candid pecan]

so wait

yes i am in singleplayer

[brittle cypress]

having cheap tanks with basically just as much soft as well as high reliability is important for them

[daring geyser]

then they just should get good?? your tank model shouldn't account for your skill it should account for how efficient it is

[candid pecan]

uh

im new

to nsb

[brittle cypress]

it really should if you don't have the skill to use a tank properly you shouldn't use it

[candid pecan]

im just trying to learn how to use tank design well

[weak bear]

Ok, I'm playing Falangist Spain and I joined the Axis. I got 2 collab govts on France and capitulated them. Now I need to invade the UK. Do you think I should occupy France or make them a collab govt?

[daring geyser]

then you might as well tell everyone to exclusively do SFs spam + air builds with GBP cuz all you have to do to win with them is battleplan

it is the most efficient way to play the game and also the easiest one

[candid pecan]

hhhhhh

[heavy vigil]

belarus isnt independent

[grizzled zenith]

Oh

[brittle cypress]

nah mass mob is easier

sf requires exploit plus xp for doctrines

[candid pecan]

what do i doooooooo

[daring geyser]

not more IC efficient than SFs spam

[grizzled zenith]

So is that vanilla? How is that 1973 then?

[daring geyser]

by 500km

[brittle cypress]

we were talking about the easiest thing to do for new players

[daring geyser]

the only reason ppl do mass mob battleplan builds is because it originates from MP mass mob battleplan builds and soviets don't have air so you need mass mob to roach

[candid pecan]

Yes

[daring geyser]

yeah that's why you shouldn't do easy things

if someone is asking how to make their tank more efficient

[candid pecan]

i mean

[daring geyser]

i will tell them how to make it more efficient not how to make it easier for dummies

[grizzled zenith]

It just says Rutena Branka so I assumed it meant White Ruthenia

[candid pecan]

idk i just want a tank that works in singleplayer

[onyx spade]

Ok. This needs to be changed. This should not cost stability, if you are anything other than democratic

[heavy vigil]

yeah

[daring geyser]

anything works in SP if you're going by that measure

[heavy vigil]

its not vanilla but the date is and so are focus trees

[candid pecan]

last time it didnt

[grizzled zenith]

1973 is vanilla?

[daring geyser]

like as long as you follow standard CWs and have decent templates you will beat the AI 100% of the time

[heavy vigil]

vanilla can go to any date the furthest ive made it run was 2058 ish

[grizzled zenith]

Yes, but who even plays to 1973 you normally conquer the world by that time😭😭😭

[patent thistle]

lets be real guys how much time are we giving this before it violently combusts into a billion states=

[daring geyser]

unless it's 1950 and you are fighting an entire faction alone

there's that too

[heavy vigil]

then just dont?

[grizzled zenith]

Ok ima do a Ukraine Kaiserredux run where I form the USSR as Khrushchev and turn into a one big corn field

[cyan arrow]

Chat I may be lowkey cooked

[brittle cypress]

small cannon is literally twice the IC for 1 more soft attack

where is the efficiency

[cyan arrow]

I started off as italy and invaded ethiopia

To See some stuff with the focus tree

[daring geyser]

and more breakthrough

[grizzled zenith]

And failed?

[cyan arrow]

And I dont know what happened

[daring geyser]

also twice the ic is an exaggeration

[candid pecan]

bro

imma just not change it

[daring geyser]

it only costs 0.5 more

[cyan arrow]

But FRANCE

[brittle cypress]

breakthrough means nothing on mediums with howizters

[daring geyser]

it does cost twice but the twice is nothing

[cyan arrow]

DECIDED TO GUARANTEE ETHIOPIA AND JOIN THE WAR

[heavy vigil]

you get some piercing?

[brittle cypress]

? hmg is 1.5, small is 3

[daring geyser]

breakthrough means something on every tank

[brittle cypress]

if you don't have enough breakthrough against the AI on medium tanks in sp

you've done something terribly wrong

[grizzled zenith]

What, but you start at war with Ethiopia how does France even guarantee it

[heavy vigil]

my game crashed :(

[brittle cypress]

the ai will never have more attack than your breakthrough

[heavy vigil]

sad

[cyan arrow]

I honestly dont know

[heavy vigil]

time to reload

[daring geyser]

we're not talking about not having enough we're talking about MAXXING breakthrough

[cyan arrow]

It was just

There

[onyx spade]

It's reliant on both soft attack and Breakthrough

[cyan arrow]

And france declared war on me insta

Then

I made some quick divs

[brittle cypress]

10k breakthrough will perform exactly the same as 1k against the AI there is literally no difference

[onyx spade]

If you got no soft attack breakthrough doesn't matter.

[grizzled zenith]

Are there any mods?

[patent thistle]

i wonder how mine isnt dead yet

[cyan arrow]

No

Historical

[grizzled zenith]

Because in vanilla you don't invade Ethiopia you start at war

[cyan arrow]

Ik

Thats what happened

[grizzled zenith]

Then your game is bugged or something, try again ig

[cyan arrow]

Anyways

[heavy vigil]

i mean it looks fine?

[devout trench]

Does hard attack still work against infantry?

[cyan arrow]

I started invading france

[onyx spade]

Decent computer?

[heavy vigil]

its just like the 40s probably

[brittle cypress]

infantry is 100% soft, so no

[cyan arrow]

They had like 2 divisions total in their homeland

I took them in 3 days

[patent thistle]

i am playing on a decent work laptop 💀

[cyan arrow]

Then Spain decided to spontaneously combust

[grizzled zenith]

By the way does Stalingrad get renamed when you integrate it?

[cyan arrow]

And I had to help them

Formed the axis

[onyx spade]

Yeah, I am curious, how you ran the game on that

[cyan arrow]

All regular

Then spain broke up

[cyan arrow]

More

[devout trench]

What is the point of tanks if they don’t do damage to line holders

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[brittle cypress]

because you... put soft attack on them?

[grizzled zenith]

What about Krasnodar?(Kuban)

[cyan arrow]

And it becoming an administrate or smth

😭

[devout trench]

But then they do nothing against tanks…

[cyan arrow]

Then Japan

Joined the chinese alliance

[remote quarry]

3 IC for 2 soft attack, and you lose 15% more tank from attrition

[cyan arrow]

And declared war on vietnam

[remote quarry]

amazing

[patent thistle]

that stayed the same

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[brittle cypress]

the AI doesn't make tanks so you optimize for soft attack. In multiplayer you get enough stats for both

if you use heavies

if you use mediums you're wrong and it's trickier

[cyan arrow]

Then a european confederation alliance got formed

Between CHINA

Britain

[daring geyser]

don't put them into places where you attrition that badly? it's as simple as that

[cyan arrow]

US

[devout trench]

Lights?

[cyan arrow]

POLAND

[patent thistle]

it also somehow runs on low SCP Secret Lab. aka the horribly optomised one

[brittle cypress]

bannable

[remote quarry]

do you know 99.99% of singleplayer people deploy their tanks in the training queue?

[cyan arrow]

AND SAUDI ARABIA

[devout trench]

Why 💔

[cyan arrow]

WHY???

[remote quarry]

any suggestion of lowering reliability = kill their tank production

[brittle cypress]

joke but they're just not that good

[cyan arrow]

Then Germany left faction and invaded me

[brittle cypress]

no stats and still kind of expensive

[cyan arrow]

I took them down

[daring geyser]

then just teach them how to not attrition their stockpile into oblivion

[remote quarry]

you lose 0.8 * (1 - reliability) many tanks by training them directly

[cyan arrow]

Somehow

[daring geyser]

it's basic unit management

[remote quarry]

I would rather teach them to make a high reliability tank

[cyan arrow]

Switzerland then got all of southern france and northern italy

[remote quarry]

cannon is just is just stupid

[cyan arrow]

Got them back too

[remote quarry]

it's more than obvious

[onyx spade]

That's surprisingly decent

[cyan arrow]

I had like 12 divisions there

[grizzled zenith]

But why, what's the point of afking for 1000 years with the mess hoi4 becomes after like 1950?

[cyan arrow]

Like

[remote quarry]

even without reliability or anything

[cyan arrow]

Just so cursed

😭😭

[remote quarry]

3 IC for 2 soft attack

[daring geyser]

then to you a standard HTD must be dog poop

[remote quarry]

?

why would I care

[patent thistle]

i think my CPU is some mid range 6th gen one, but no GPU

[brittle cypress]

the jump from asking what the best tank design to kil the AI is and the jump from knowing how to use a convert is like, massive

[remote quarry]

you are using the tank for soft attack and soft attack only

[grizzled zenith]

I tried to play SCP Secret Lab and it doesn't even launch for me and then I forgot I wanted to get into it

[daring geyser]

it's still more soft though? it's not only one soft more when you scale and take modifiers into account

more soft and more breakthrough

[remote quarry]

2 MORE SOFT

[onyx spade]

That ain't bad at all

[daring geyser]

and medium tanks are already cheap enough

[remote quarry]

trust it will make a difference

[patent thistle]

like i said no GPU tho

[remote quarry]

do you understand 3 IC is making it 25% more expsnvie

it's like using welded armor

[brittle cypress]

^

[onyx spade]

Yeah

[dusky burrow]

oh no not stepan bandera

[patent thistle]

like i said its horribly optemised

[brittle cypress]

it takes about 3 minutes to launch there's a bug going around rn with unity

just wait

[daring geyser]

you can get 70 HTDs as sovs without minmaxxing everything and at their cheapest they will cost 30 ic

in any way you put your mediums they will be already cheap enough

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[daring geyser]

it is in relation a big jump but when compared to what is truly too expensive it's nothing

[patent thistle]

nah Secret Lab is just like i said badly optemised to the point it cant load for some mid ranged PCs or Laptops properly

[grizzled zenith]

My PC is good tho

[brittle cypress]

yeah if you try and run it on a work laptop without a gpu of course it'll be awful

[remote quarry]

why do I care how many htd you can get when you are designing a tank for singleplayer with howitzer on them????????????

you don't put cannon on a howitzer tank

period

[patent thistle]

i am litterally playing with a like 600 x 360 💀

[brittle cypress]

what

[daring geyser]

if something costs 30 ic and you can make a lot of them on vanilla scaling then you can also make a lot of what costs less than that 🤷

it doesn't "kill your tank production" you just change from cheap to cheap but slightly more expensive

[patent thistle]

resolution

[brittle cypress]

bro that's

ok

[heavy vigil]

im playing on ahist? its always a mess?

[grizzled zenith]

Lmao

[patent thistle]

yes.

yes

and yes

[grizzled zenith]

I meant how it runs past 1950s

[patent thistle]

is that all you need to know?

[remote quarry]

the fact that you can throw 1/4 of your tank into the ether and still win against the ai doesn't mean that you should throw 1/4 of the tank into the ether

[heavy vigil]

depends on how many people die usually

[grizzled zenith]

Casey means they play ahist all the time

[remote quarry]

i would rather use welded armor on my tank honestly

[heavy vigil]

not all the time tbh

[grizzled zenith]

Oh ok

[daring geyser]

armor that costs chromium just isnt worth it cuz it takes away your eco

and the other armor stacks on top of all the ic that you have in your tank

[grizzled zenith]

It depends on how many useless divisions the AI spams, wasn't that the main cause of lag?

[daring geyser]

it's objectively a bad comparison because it's not like the 3 ic will kill your tank or omg itll multiply the total price of your tank by 10000%

[heavy vigil]

no

just how many people died

[grizzled zenith]

Hm, ok

I always thought it was the divs

[remote quarry]

3 IC is 1/4 the cost of your tank

[heavy vigil]

cuz if everyone is equipped with newest weapons only that boosts performance a lot

[remote quarry]

yes it does kill your tank

[heavy vigil]

old equipment is a game chugger

[remote quarry]

while doing absolutely nothing

[brittle cypress]

however way you phrase it, 2 more base soft in exchange for 3 more IC on your tank and significantly less reliability isn't a good trade off

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[remote quarry]

your tank is already as expensive as the heavy you know?

while having less stat

[heavy vigil]

and ofc more death is also a bit less units

[grizzled zenith]

But do all the deaths get saved somewhere? Wouldn't it make sense to remove them after the war?

[daring geyser]

yeah but that's a really bad heavy tank 🤷‍♂️

[heavy vigil]

no

[daring geyser]

well not a really bad one

[remote quarry]

????

it's the correct design

[heavy vigil]

just less manpower and old stuff cuz its gone

[remote quarry]

just saying how bad it makes your medium to be

[heavy vigil]

for what

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[daring geyser]

for SP maybe but you still could have more stats

it's like

i could make a bad medium

then make a normal light tank

then say

oh yeah

the light tank is as expensive as the medium now

wow

you should stop using armor ticks because of ic

[grizzled zenith]

Tbh I just always use mediums and never think about that

[remote quarry]

yes that as well

you need to know what things affect the game and what not

it's not that you can't make more expensive tanks

but you are paying the IC for literally nothing

[daring geyser]

you are paying the IC for stats though? like you could make your plane design cheaper

but that still isn't worth it

everyone does the same 1 or 2 plane designs

[grizzled zenith]

So are they useless? I added them to my flamethrower tanks and filled my army with them and they seem to have a lot of breakthrough from all the support stuff I added (it's 1946, I have the industry too)

[remote quarry]

making the tank 20% more expensive for 5% more soft attack

[daring geyser]

it isn't 5% because modifiers scale and magnify any difference

[remote quarry]

that's not a valid argument

think about why

5% on the base stat is 5% on your final stats

no such thing as magnify or whatever

[daring geyser]

if you have 10 but then you have 12 and you get it heightened to 100x then you have 1000 compared to 1200

which is a difference that you can take into account

[remote quarry]

still 20%

[heavy vigil]

why are my GOATs fightung

[remote quarry]

it's litearlly just this

if you think this is worth it idk what to tell you

[sharp reef]

hello unncles

[daring geyser]

still 20% but it is statiscally bigger tho?

20% of 1000 is worth more than 20% of 10

you can think about scales but you can think of absolutes

[heavy vigil]

imaginary numbers

use real ones

[devout trench]

Is tanks worth it or should I use mass mob

[remote quarry]

the point is just how much you think it's worth

[devout trench]

Seems like quite a lot to research and get in production

[brittle cypress]

700 soft on mediums with hmgs
720 soft on mediums with small cannons

Scale that by like 600% with modifiers, that's difference of 120 soft

[heavy vigil]

why not massmob with tank

[devout trench]

Because I like seeing green in my logistics

[grizzled zenith]

Tanks are worth it if you can produce them

[remote quarry]

and it's very clearly not worth making your tank 20% more expensive

for reference, small cannon on the heavy tank makes them gain 20% hard attack with a 30% cost increase(apart from buffing soft and break)

[grizzled zenith]

Lmao

[green magnet]

is having marines and moutiners in the same temp a good combo?

[dusky burrow]

mass mob left

/s

[devout trench]

What is good tank template?

[grizzled zenith]

Depends on what you want

[grizzled zenith]

They combine their bonuses but they are less then

[green magnet]

wdym

[remote quarry]

it's the best possible division if you want to naval invade

[devout trench]

That’s just mass mob with 1 guy in a tank

[remote quarry]

but you need to know how to exploit the cap

[grizzled zenith]

I mean mountaineers are better cuz they have less width but if you want to naval invade you can use a combination of both

[dusky burrow]

basically

[grizzled zenith]

Are helicopters good?

[zinc light]

rule 1 of non-historical: you dont look at South Africa

[devout trench]

Long Peru with a blister

[heavy vigil]

is that the ai popping off??

[zinc light]

Indeed it is my guy

[heavy vigil]

or is that you

[daring geyser]

i don't want to argue about this for too long because it is a virtual game with pixels that lose imaginary men but genuinely a small difference can end up being the difference between pushing and not pushing

it's why people care about armor memes, it's insignificant if the opposite players aren't doing AT on every infantry, but it is still an edge, even though they do use up more IC

you might have 20% less tanks, but you will still have a lot of tanks if you are doing a tank build regardless (consider the fact that your avg HTD costs 30 ic and people can still get way more than they can micro) and they have an edge that can very well determine whether you will push somewhere or not

[heavy vigil]

im so proud

[devout trench]

https://tenor.com/view/pushsupreme-mongoliamode-mongolia-supreme-mongolian-gif-25189013

Max width Calvary on top

[grizzled zenith]

How do those divisions get like 500 attack that's just inf with support companies

And they destroy the AI too

[daring geyser]

modifiers and planning

[devout trench]

Idk how people do it

[daring geyser]

i wouldnt use this div tho

[grizzled zenith]

I'm just using random stuff I have

[grizzled zenith]

Why?

[devout trench]

I thought 16 width was the meta for defense

[daring geyser]

36w SFs will do its job better

[grizzled zenith]

I could make tanks and I wanted to but why would I if that works

[remote quarry]

armor meme is irrelevant before your enemy has AT3, again
why I always say you don't need it.
this is just another case of "spending IC while getting nothing"

[daring geyser]

yes, but not with a lot of support companies

[grizzled zenith]

What about my mountaineers?

[remote quarry]

it's eventually up to you to decide if something is worth it

[daring geyser]

16w is good becuase it roaches and is an orgwall

[remote quarry]

but the math here really can't be more clear

[grizzled zenith]

Oh right I gotta get all the artis for free soft attack too

[remote quarry]

usually, we would take 10% cost to be even more important than 10% stat

[dusky burrow]

helicopter logistics are good
helicopter recon is useful in a couple of situations where you want to maximize speed (which is limited)
helicopter hospitals aren't good in any case
helicopter brigade i guess you just average these three effects out

[remote quarry]

when it's 20% vs 5% there shouldn't be an argument

[devout trench]

If I death stack 10 width divisions with maxed support companies and a maxed doctrine

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

Also helicopters have a bit of defence

[devout trench]

Would it be possible to push?

[daring geyser]

it might be 20% but you will still have a lot of them regardless, because in absolute numbers they still cost low IC

but whatever

you do you

[zinc light]

honestly, Bohmia might be putting in the most work right now

[grizzled zenith]

Bro I want land cruisers so much why are they sooo loooooong to get😭😭😭

[zinc light]

keeping a metric ton of german units occupied

[dusky burrow]

xYeah definitely

[grizzled zenith]

Oh right I forgot about the arti research, ima just create a bunch of tanks

[zinc light]

"Get home, everyone! there's a war to be fought!"

[grizzled zenith]

Super heaviers🔥🔥🔥

[dusky burrow]

If you're anastasia it's a good idea to take out Czechoslovakia and Hungary

[grizzled zenith]

Or shall I use modern tanks?

[daring geyser]

they are fine but could use better support companies, usually you would want armored recon for breakthrough since non-armored divs lack breakthrough, and super heavy howitzer

but those are decent mountaineers

yes

[zinc light]

yeah I'm playing as her

already took out czechoslovakia, took slovakia and the czech are my puppets

[grizzled zenith]

Ok, ima get them

[zinc light]

never bothered with hungary tho

they'll cap together wit hgermany

[dusky burrow]

just use heavies honestly

[grizzled zenith]

Super heavies are the way then

[heavy vigil]

those are support only

[remote quarry]

ranger is fine

[grizzled zenith]

Oh damn

Then I need to get land cruisers

[remote quarry]

armor support is not very worth it especially the regular one

your base break is definitely enough

[grizzled zenith]

Damnit I don't have the artillery researched to add howitzers I'm cooked

[wide mantle]

would this be a cool focus tree for a mod called the fire rises(search it up)

[dusky burrow]

you're a dev?

or is this a submod

[maiden gull]

Bit confused

[wide mantle]

im not , but im gonna ask my friend who can make a submod for ts

i hope it gets added to main mod tho

cuz tfr lacks in commie content

[zinc light]

okay I found my way
I will use small fighters IN COMBINATION with heavies

[maiden gull]

True

[maiden gull]

Can anyone please explain this 🥺

[zinc light]

whats up with that

[dusky burrow]

ah I see

[maiden gull]

How am I fighting against my own puppet 😔

[uncut pollen]

Prob just some focuses

Oh wait

You are fighting?

[dusky burrow]

yeah i'm confused too

[maiden gull]

😭

This is the third time I broke the game this week

[zinc light]

thats odd

[uncut pollen]

Maybe its in a civil war

With a the other country having the same flag

[maiden gull]

It's a civil war

[uncut pollen]

I once had china fighting against china

[zinc light]

so yeah, after germany being for some reason without a proper leader for 2 years, then going democratic, they're really damn weak

[maiden gull]

And I somehow joined and made a faction with the break away so idk free win I can just request the rajs forces

[maiden gull]

Wait could it be because of the power struggle thing

Or am I wrong

On that one

[uncut pollen]

Idk

I forgot

[maiden gull]

I think I might be

Also

Can anyone explain this one

I'm playing Italy

In a civil war

[uncut pollen]

Maybe its a Kapitulation Inquiry

[grizzled zenith]

Is that a good div?

[maiden gull]

Well I clicked give my "occupied Territory" and it gave it to the fascist Italy

So it's not a capitulation thing

[grizzled zenith]

Wait I meant to send this one

[violet spire]

I'll take out the medium one

[grizzled zenith]

Damn I meant to put a heavy there too

[violet spire]

And use armor engineer and maybe field hospital instead of artillery

[maiden gull]

No idea also apparently starting a civil war in base game breaks the focus tree also

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

What about helis insteadof hospitals?

[dusky burrow]

replace normal artillery with hospitals and engineers with assault engineers if possible

[maiden gull]

Yk one more question

[grizzled zenith]

I don't have hospitals will the helis serve for now?

[violet spire]

Maybe

[maiden gull]

How and why?

[violet spire]

Don't ask

[maiden gull]

Ok

[violet spire]

Was it ai?

[dusky burrow]

will help a bit

but yeah do get hospitals

[dusky burrow]

nice

[grizzled zenith]

What the heck just happened

[maiden gull]

At first I was going to leave it to A.I but after passing 10 times they refused to take anything even though they had more participation

[violet spire]

Civil war probably

[violet spire]

Happens

Its ai

[violet spire]

Don't ask, it's better

[remote quarry]

but it's close enough

anything of a mix is good

[grizzled zenith]

What about that

[remote quarry]

I think medium would be better

but it's fine

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[remote quarry]

kinda expensive

your heavy is like 30 IC

[grizzled zenith]

I'm Macedonian Empire in 1947 sure I do have the economy

[remote quarry]

oh then maybe use heavy cannnon or something on the tank

if you need hard attack

[violet spire]

More piercing would be nice

[grizzled zenith]

Why would I need hard attack that's not Sheep's AI, I'm yet to suffer through that

[remote quarry]

1947

ai does soemthing in 1947 surely right?

[grizzled zenith]

Nah it sucks

[sudden thistle]

I hope

[grizzled zenith]

Guess my World Conquest has to wait, I'm wathingh the very exciting Saudi Arabian Civil War

Where nothing happens

I might send volunteers to the losing side if it gets too close

And attachees to the other🔥

Execute order 66

Oh damn I can't volunteer

Then attachees to the losing side it is

[grizzled zenith]

What about heli hospitals?

Are they good?

Or are they worse than regulat hospitals

[remote quarry]

worse than regular hospital

[grizzled zenith]

Ok

[grizzled zenith]

Btw can you create a medium armoured recon or do I have to use lights?

[desert pollen]

what's the meta to spark civil wars with intelligence?

[remote quarry]

use lights

[grizzled zenith]

sad

[unkempt kelp]

I’m playing as Germany, and I can’t select a marshal. I try clicking on one but it doesn’t work. How do I fix this?

[remote quarry]

promote them

[zinc light]

To Not do it at all

[remote quarry]

^^^

[unkempt kelp]

ok

[zinc light]

It takes an absurdly long time to get any meaningful % of Support for a ideology, Same with resistance

You're better Off using your brain capacity on the greater war

[zinc rune]

just found out you can put your own songs to spotify, hell yeah

[uncut pollen]

I once got communist china democratic

Never again

[grizzled zenith]

YES I'M FINALLY GETTING THE LAND CRUISER

[desert pollen]

it's 1938 i'm trying to break up the allies by civ il waring the uk

[zinc rune]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flightreacts-flight-reacts-shocked-dumb-gif-6313022364613646356

[zinc rune]

These combatants remind me of something

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

[plain tusk]

What nation are you playing?

[languid patrol]

rt56 palestine

i did the israel route

[zinc light]

Ah the Route I occasionally get ony non-historical games where everything goes into absolute carnage for a few years?

[languid patrol]

facist israel route

[languid patrol]

yes

[zinc light]

I'm Just getting the News and be like "oh Israel is doing it's Thing again"

[languid patrol]

israel decalres on anything that tocuhes the middle east

now i have to declare on britan to get to egpyt cuz i dont have a navy

[sudden thistle]

paratroopers

[languid patrol]

too broke for that

would genunily take years

to build up for a paratroop

[sudden thistle]

no

[languid patrol]

research + making the planes

[sudden thistle]

research that plane/paratrooper

build 50

win

[languid patrol]

i need to get my core from jordan anyway

may as well

[zinc light]

Why does Turkey own Hejaz 🥀

[languid patrol]

they are stupid thats why

[zinc light]

Oh lord

[dusky burrow]

rip

[dusky burrow]

how many factories do you have

[undone vale]

the

im doing the moddening

this is tedious asf 😭

[heavy vigil]

vanilla ai cooking

[daring geyser]

they really be "for the emperor!"

[plain tusk]

The italian infantry models are missing

Bug or Italian wonder weapon?

[heavy vigil]

they used invisibility potions

[median gull]

Getting frustrated with trying to move ships between task forces. Would it just be simpler to design task forces ahead of time and let the reserve ships fill in the slots?

[heavy vigil]

people use task forces?

[median gull]

How do you use your navy?

[daring geyser]

WRONG

it's called schizophrenia

[heavy vigil]

big fleet + subs seperate

[daring geyser]

(the axis launched N2O attacks on british troops trust)

[median gull]

Same question applies for assigning ships to fleets. For some reason they made it much more complicated the assigning divisions to armies

[heavy vigil]

it isnt?

you can even do it in production

[plain tusk]

Ok i think its just the desert ones

I can see four models on East Africa

[toxic sapphire]

best template for naval invading Washington with 80 units?

[plain tusk]

Ey

Fellow portuguese speaker

[toxic sapphire]

@heavy vigil mind helping with that

[median gull]

Curious: what happens if you have really low support for your current government type?

[toxic sapphire]

you get invaded by the version with the highest support for its ideology (possibly all of them leading to 3 wars)

[heavy vigil]

my goat

[toxic sapphire]

Tysm Mr peak

[heavy vigil]

armor is more for break than for armor just use interwar

and also for piercing

[toxic sapphire]

I prefer you over any mod

[heavy vigil]

cuz you dont have AT

[plain tusk]

Guys is it normal for Sinkiang and Republican Spain to join Comintern in 1936 in a historical playthrough?

[median gull]

And then following up. If you do an anti communist raid. Does the communist support get shuffled to the other ideologies?

[toxic sapphire]

was lazy to connect to usb and tether internet

it wasn't that important of a picture ngl

[plain tusk]

And communist china too

[heavy vigil]

idk i just use 24 marines and then air maybe

air when you have airfields ofc

[toxic sapphire]

bodycam? what's that.

[heavy vigil]

infantry sucks at attacking and even more over sea

[toxic sapphire]

mid tanks better

[heavy vigil]

the only way you can make infantry naval invasions work is landing on the port sides and attacking from land

which sucks because you can just get killed while encircled

[toxic sapphire]

or surrounding the actual city then taking it with the infantry that lands

[heavy vigil]

both

[toxic sapphire]

I'm gonna reach 100h playtime soon btw

[remote quarry]

it's hard to believe that this game actually have a perfect template

[median gull]

I’m at 70 and still feel like I barely understand the mechanics

[heavy vigil]

it doesnt have hardness :/ it can die in mp

[toxic sapphire]

can u pin this as the most peak naval inv template

[toxic sapphire]

its sp only

hard to use in mp

[heavy vigil]

no because @trim pike will yell at me

[toxic sapphire]

aw damn it

[plain tusk]

Like is my historical game screwed now?

[heavy vigil]

(im kidding hes very nice)

[toxic sapphire]

no its garuanteed

in hist

[plain tusk]

Really?

[toxic sapphire]

yes

[plain tusk]

I don’t remember it happening

Before

[toxic sapphire]

its in my game aswell

[remote quarry]

ok even in mp you just swap two battalions

😭

[toxic sapphire]

yeah uhh

[heavy vigil]

oh topazand

[toxic sapphire]

ig its still not the same temp

[heavy vigil]

for the marine do yourself a favour and make the tanks 100% reliability

so you can battleplan them through the worst places on earth

(like northern australia ive done that)

[median gull]

So turning Germany democratic I need 40% democracy support. But have no way to increase it. Will anti facist and communist raids boost democracy support some?

[remote quarry]

actually

you only need 40%

60*

due to rounding

[heavy vigil]

no

you still lose to attrition

100% and you lose 0 ever

no armor click tech and wrong gun but iw version

96% will lose basically none as well

basic chassis is actually nice for roadwheels

[remote quarry]

it should still have min 1 attrition

due to rounding

[heavy vigil]

nope

[remote quarry]

the threshold is 60%

[heavy vigil]

ive battleplanned jungles you lose none

speaking from big experience

[remote quarry]

try on a 61% reliability tank?

[heavy vigil]

i have

[heavy vigil]

thats for battle reliability i think?

which is different from just attritioning for fun

[toxic sapphire]

btw navy is simple just learn what beats what (100% trust me im not [opposite] lying)

[heavy vigil]

when you attrition for fun you can lose none

but you still lose in combat

[remote quarry]

check the wiki

attrition just depend on the reliability value and curretn attrition

combat could increase your attrition percentage

[heavy vigil]

check the game lol

its also very easy to test

[remote quarry]

try it with a 61% reliability tank

I have

like a long time ago

[heavy vigil]

i did both

[remote quarry]

the threshold works as intended

[heavy vigil]

its different now

idk if its changed

[median gull]

Navy is easy. Just have the best ships an upgrades researched and have a 3-1 advantage. Easy peezy

[remote quarry]

funny thing about navy is that it's the place where tech matters the least

sometimes upgrading literally make your design worse

[remote quarry]

well just run a test rn

[heavy vigil]

a few days ago i had a whole attrition battle for 760 in game days

like i tested there

[toxic sapphire]

50 days till usa dies

[median gull]

When Verdun just doesn’t last long enough

[heavy vigil]

not verdun

[toxic sapphire]

10 days...

[heavy vigil]

darien gap battle

[remote quarry]

huh that's weird

yeah it does seem to be the case

ok no more funny 0 reliability flames

sadly

[heavy vigil]

still should

its not a significant IC loss

it only matters when you go through actual horrific terrain

where you should not really be fighting

[wary sparrow]

ngl monarchist norway is really fun

plus no horrid norweigan civil war like communists

[toxic sapphire]

first time naval invading usa kinda nervous

[median gull]

Does the game have a way to simulate just how many armed civilians you would be facing?

[devout trench]

securing manpower...

[median gull]

You should be. I mean it will be fun but the invasion plus the maintaining the supply lines across an ocean. No pressure but don’t screw it up

[toxic sapphire]

IT JUST LAUNCHED

THEIR NAVY GOT DISTRACTED

[grand wolf]

Whats a good mod that makes the vanilla game map have TNO textures

[lone lodge]

does anyone do modded runs here

[sharp sierra]

i walk

[lone lodge]

cuz im trying to do a cold war or modern MP run

[grand wolf]

You find a good cold war mod?

[tiny viper]

I don't really understand the 36 width but yeah

[heavy vigil]

well you have tile width

when attacking from 2 sides it goes up 50%

and more when attacking from even more angles

per battle, units can exceed even this upped value by 33% provided theyre large enough

for offensive divisions you want the largest possible since higher hp means faster regaining strenght + less losses taken

combined with needing attacking stat units (like for example tanks who cannot fight on their own due to a great lack of hp)

so really youre looking to give your unit as many battallions as possible to buff its attacking capability

and going above 36 limits it to only being good in plains/maybe forest

36 is also basically just the best for forest/plains which is where you want to attack

the added marines + mountaineers in this specific division make it less punishing to naval invade/attack mountains, but every tile with forced attrition (mountains, jungle, marshes) you do want to generally avoid

[plain tusk]

Okay Dominican Republic joined the Axis

Idk whats wrong with my game

[tiny viper]

I mean it goes up 4 times with x50 no?

[sharp sierra]

my name is matt but im much angrier than you

[heavy vigil]

with infantry its also not as punishing because you wont lose much (valuable) equipment pushing these tiles; really it could be smaller to fit more terrains but you just lose out on such valuable attack stats that you shouldnt

[heavy vigil]

this is a practical vs theoratical thing too

you will generally only attack from 2-3 angles

[plain tusk]

No your name is m8p5j(gummy)

[heavy vigil]

you always avoid 1 because then its harder to win

[sharp sierra]

my name is matt

[heavy vigil]

and its very rare to attack from 4+ sides

[sharp sierra]

i bet your name isnt even really matt

[plain tusk]

And?

You can't prove it

[sharp sierra]

cuz u wont

[tiny viper]

So if I understood it right you basically go above the battle size to hold back an unite?

[sharp sierra]

im matt but better im butter

[tiny viper]

Sry if I am understanding bad it's close to 3am and bit ill xd

[sharp sierra]

butter butt

[tiny viper]

Not best combo for using my brain

[plain tusk]

Ooh i remember whats wrong

[heavy vigil]

you want to use the maximum size possible generally yes

[plain tusk]

I installed a mod that changes how opinions work

[heavy vigil]

but any width is fine technically

[plain tusk]

So nations of the same ideology are banding up together

[tiny viper]

I mean I am dirty 15width Spammer with superior firepower and support equipment buff

[plain tusk]

Nuh uh

[heavy vigil]

like i found this to work very well vs china but 28 width is awful so you ditch it after the china war like literally immediately

also line artillery sucks on top of that fighting anything besides gun 0 (1918) and gun 1 (1936)

which luckily is the entire chinese army

[tiny viper]

I mean line artillery is basically dead no?

[heavy vigil]

its been bad since 2018

[tiny viper]

Its alrighty for early game I guess

[heavy vigil]

its still decent situationally when fighting poorly equipped opponents

[tiny viper]

Bur for mid late you always go with artillery tank atleast

[heavy vigil]

ofc im just giving an example of an "odd" template

youre also limited in xp anyway so you dont want to overdesign stuff

[tiny viper]

Yeah true that my designs costs quite alot xd

[plain tusk]

I wanted to ask, is it alright to change from light tanks to mediun tanks around mid-game?

Cuz I always try to do that

[tiny viper]

I think 56 around only for tank design + then template design costs

[dusky burrow]

what should japanese volunteers to spain look like

[dusky burrow]

yeah, although you can start with mediums anyways

[tiny viper]

Based on what you consider mid game

[heavy vigil]

dont?

youre busy in china

unless you finish china before spain does

[dusky burrow]

you're going to war with china in mid-1936?

[heavy vigil]

then just send some guys over

[heavy vigil]

late 36

[dusky burrow]

i see

[plain tusk]

Id say like 1941 on a historical playthrough

[heavy vigil]

you can grind in ethiopia before if you want a sensory overload

[plain tusk]

Though WW2 usually ends in 1943 for me

[heavy vigil]

doing spies + research + decisions

and grinding at the same time

[tiny viper]

I mean is it then even worth it to start medium if you can go modern

[heavy vigil]

ideally you can end the china war in like

late 37

and a bad/long spain war can drag into 38

so theres a chance you can fight there

[plain tusk]

Oh I shouldve clarified, I don’t own any DLC apart from the ones intengrated into the base game

[tiny viper]

Uhh to be honest I've no Idee how the game is without dlc xd

[heavy vigil]

light tanks without dlc are ok

i mean as infantry support

[tiny viper]

I think I playd with dlc only since idk 3 years or smth like that

[heavy vigil]

not as like standalone tank

you can do this but 3 lights and youd have more breakthrough

[plain tusk]

Hm

[plain tusk]

Fair lol

[tiny viper]

Just never questionmark my tank builds

[hasty owl]

This is the only good template I've seen in this server yet

[tiny viper]

Picture having better quality then my life

I mean I could send some of my go to templates tmrw

[heavy vigil]

how so

no dlc is harder you have so much less statbloat

and ai cant mess up as much

[hasty owl]

It's alright. I don't see any need for recon or the tanks in the division.

Everyone sends really bad divisions in this server

[tiny viper]

I mean recons are for the price quite op

[trim pike]

🗣️

Let me check it out

[dusky burrow]

recon tanks are nice

breakthrough is nice

[heavy vigil]

its the best no dlc recon company

[plain tusk]

Idk for me HOI4 with DLC sound even more overwhelming

[dusky burrow]

what's the second best

[heavy vigil]

its pretty chill click some buttons win the game

[tiny viper]

Either armored car ones or mountainier recons

[heavy vigil]

idk cav recon

on gbp right

5% soft attack

[hasty owl]

No AA😭

[plain tusk]

Tbf I think I can just copy someone's template

[heavy vigil]

why does it need AA

youre doing marines

make air

[plain tusk]

Learn the game? Whats that

Let others do the hard work

Numbers make brain go owie

[hasty owl]

Your going to push inland with them once you land

[heavy vigil]

you can also just get a mod so no one can research and then exploit your early game skills

[lone lodge]

@grand wolf well its the iron curtain one

[heavy vigil]

again

low cost units

use the rest of your eco on air

i did those as japan and had like 50 mils on fighters

[hasty owl]

It has a lot of tanks

[heavy vigil]

mandatory amount

[grand wolf]

Rip, it hasn't been updated in a year

[heavy vigil]

cost is in bottom right

[dusky burrow]

it costs 3400 ic ish

which is a bit expensive but not that much more expensive than other marine templates

[grand wolf]

But what about a navy

[heavy vigil]

air

[lone lodge]

@grand wolfi dont mind that but i just want at least one game as me as us and someone as the ussr

[grand wolf]

But I want a big strong navy

[heavy vigil]

all noob japan players go 'hmm i want to focus on navy and invade the US'

like chill

[plain tusk]

I think my game is gonna lag so much

[heavy vigil]

youre not there yet

take indonesia, india, australia first

then you can go for naval battles

[plain tusk]

I regret installing this mod, so many more nations are gonna join WW2

[grand wolf]

Id be down if I had internet instead of my Hotspot

[plain tusk]

Something will happen in South America for once

[dusky burrow]

alternatively you take Mexico in a post-China peace deal and do that achievement

[heavy vigil]

then youre still not naval war-invading the US

[dusky burrow]

Yeah

[tiny viper]

Yo Casey my G have u ever tried 15spam with SF?

It's kinda hilarious ngl

[heavy vigil]

how do you get to 15

do you add a line AA for fun

[hasty owl]

What is sf?

[tiny viper]

Superior firepower

Line aa for pre Artillery tank

[dusky burrow]

yeah probably i'm guessing

[plain tusk]

I have a question, Communist China joined Comintern. Does that mean Japan will declare on USSR by proxy?

[heavy vigil]

i will be real with you SFP is my second least used doctrine

[dusky burrow]

maybe the line aa is useful when you're china and can't afford air

[tiny viper]

I mean have u seen support company buffs in it

[heavy vigil]

every time i use it im disappointed by the high losses i take

[tiny viper]

After 5or6 points in it you get 20%soft atack buff from support company's

[dusky burrow]

Yeah in my SFP game I lost 4 million Chinese

[heavy vigil]

as china its perfect

you have those people

[hasty owl]

How? I've never lost more than 2 million ever

[plain tusk]

Whats the use of Superior Firepower if you still take high casualties?

Isnt it meant to be the opposite

[dusky burrow]

I did fight until 1948 and in the wastes of Siberia and eastern Kazakhstan

and also invaded Sweden who had 160+ factories

[hasty owl]

Makes more sense

[tiny viper]

I mean idk if I am delulu here or not

[dusky burrow]

I got quite a few of my units overrun or encircled

[tiny viper]

But anytime I play with it with 15width spam

I mostly have 1-100ratio

[dusky burrow]

In general you should not do 12w SFP spam

[tiny viper]

Worst case 1-40

[heavy vigil]

it gives a lot of stats if you can afford the losses

[dusky burrow]

superior firepower is a high soft attack but low hp doctrine

thus the high casualties

[hasty owl]

That only works as the USA, USSR, or china.

[tiny viper]

And I mean it's infantry spam meta Anyway with some tanks

[dusky burrow]

the low casualty high hp doctrine is mass mob I think

[tiny viper]

But mostly air

[dusky burrow]

Yeah

[tiny viper]

I mean mass mob is most broken in late

[dusky burrow]

but maybe not even the USA and USSR

[tiny viper]

Cause of the -0.2width

[plain tusk]

Oh ok. I thought SFP was meant for nations that have more industry than manpower

[heavy vigil]

0.4

[tiny viper]

Based on usage I would say

Even 0.4 that's crazy

[heavy vigil]

its gonna change in 7 days

[dusky burrow]

That's grand battleplan

[heavy vigil]

but dont read the names

read the stats

[dusky burrow]

although yeah what casey said, it may change in 7 days

[leaden mulch]

.6 as india

Broken ahh path

[tiny viper]

Who tf cares about india

[leaden mulch]

Me

[tiny viper]

[plain tusk]

Indians?

[tiny viper]

I respect that brother

[dusky burrow]

you can make 25-infantry bricks as india

and that'd be 35 width

[tiny viper]

I think fascist Finland can be fun sometimes

You can go only special unites if I have it right in mind

Aslong it's after 1940

[plain tusk]

Ive only really played as France and Canada

[dusky burrow]

for normal india i don't think they do sfp either

most of the time

[plain tusk]

I think imma do a 3rd Canada playthrough actually

[hasty owl]

Their opinions don't matter

[tiny viper]

I think theres absolutely no nation I've never playd atleast twice ngl

[plain tusk]

I am not canadian btw

[wraith mauve]

Hoi4 should give no comprimise no surrender for free

[leaden mulch]

Liberia

[heavy vigil]

you havent played all releasables twice yet

i mean i havent and ive played a lot of them

[hasty owl]

Do you go outside?