#Space Elevator Rework

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

ebon robin
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Problem: The space elevator is boring. The gameplay is very simplistic, and all of the modules look and feel the same. Space pumping and mining have far too much output for the effort, and mining is an exercise in voiding hundreds of thousands of junk ores. Space assembly is just a blue assembling machine. Space projects are thoroughly useless, as is the the Space Research module. The space elevator should have gameplay that is as cool as the structure looks.

Proposed Solution: Reimagine the space elevator as the base station for interacting with the player’s ever growing fleet of spacecraft. SE motors and modules increase the rate at which resources can be moved, the size of ships that can be launched, and the number of ships that can be controlled. Introduce the shipyard, where players can design and fabricate purpose-built space ships.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NlCoK8qLoHbHTMho2IQ_UaPBz7WEkBxPQhoe7fe_bd4/edit?usp=sharing

sacred jackal
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Main issue i have with SE is the mining module. NEI pages are more than counterintuitive, i'll even call them useless. There is no explaination of the mechanics, you have to randomly put values and try to get optimums. Even the quest teach you to use a spreadsheet. In NH, what's cool is that you always can use a spreadsheet someone did for you, or you can make your own. I honestly tried to do it without any lookups in discord, code and the sheet, well I failed.

fringe kettle
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yeah it definitely is not explained well enough in-game to figure it all out

sacred jackal
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The other issue is the space assembler, it's just a baby assline with no effort. Like seriously, the game has too much assemblers already, i'd rather add a mechanic to link current prass/ lsaa to the space elevator than keeping the space assembler tbh. it's a bottleneck for everyone, and it's exactly in the pool of "i need to spam more" moments.

fringe kettle
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interesting idea honestly

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especially with this fleet stuff, you could somehow link your fleet to precise assemblers for some kind of bonuses or unlocked recipes etc

sacred jackal
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Concerning space pumping well, we could up tier the modules a tiny bit so the infinite oil rig will be a required step, rn it's purely optional. The yield of the space pumps is honestly fine imo

wise lion
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i'm not a fan of designing ships, a lot of scifiy, 4x games do it and it's imo always bad. moreover i strongly suspect it's going to get solved by somebody and then everybody spams the same design

daring garden
sacred jackal
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yeah anything that adds actual content rather than yet another assembler machine, it doesn't even have any content tied to space assembler rn, it just needs to be crafted there because fuck you that's why

fringe kettle
daring garden
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or something similar to how pcb factory works, like it requires modules to craft stuff the assembling line could have a new feature that it can detect space assembler modules?

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not sure how that would work though

fringe kettle
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the doc is still pretty much a rough draft, theres a lot to figure out. but SE has a lot of problems, with assembler being boring, miner being impossible to understand, pump being OP, and the other 2 modules being useless, theres a lot of room for improvement

wise lion
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the fleet management with a new UI for it sounds like a lot for minecraft. very ambitious. don't know what your timetable is for 2.8, but i would think this takes longer than most other things to desgin, build and test

daring garden
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theres 2?

fringe kettle
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oh this 100% isnt 2.8

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project manager and research module

daring garden
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oh research and project are seperate modules

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lmao

fringe kettle
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the research one has actually no functionality rn

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the project one at least has something you can do with it though i assume most people dont even know what it does

trim stratus
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yeah, one of the project reduces computation usage, the other reduces plasma usage

daring garden
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oh thats cool

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and completely useless TooTroll

west hawk
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Hopefully the new SE wiki page helps understand the mining module a little bit better, I did some deep diving into the code for some accurate information pensib

supple haven
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about the SE mining module, we should start by removing all the noises information in NEI.
size, weight, aren't useful on its own, they maybe play a role in the code but who knows what purpose they play as user experience. computation is also noise, why only the mining modules require computation, its more annoying than useful imo.
in the nei guy, there is 2 dark grey slots below the drill materials. what is the purpose of those 2 slots? why so many tools and drones for almost nothing different, that's just noise.
we should clean the module before start the rework.

sacred jackal
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look at the diamond ore recipe in the space miner handler, scroll with the mouse accross recipes you'll see the chances of ores being the same. So why the fuck do we need to aim for better mining drones?

supple haven
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you have better yield of diamond using EEC kekw

trim stratus
supple haven
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so, you have to make a benchmark to see the effect of size. not everyone do this. most peoples will just turn on the machine with stocking bus/hatch and let the random do its work.

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i don't say, "this is useless", in the code it does something, but as user experience, this is irrelevant.

trim stratus
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So should time also be removed?

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It's less useful than size

supple haven
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we need a process time, otherwise its one tick?

trim stratus
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Why would it be 1 tick if you just don't show it

tranquil mango
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if size is not displayed players will default to 1 stack

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which is wrong

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the same way people will default to 1 tick if time isnt displayed

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something that could be done now is to use oversized stacks in nei instead of the size parameter

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but size is a range so idk how to portray that sensibly

supple haven
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im curious enough to challenge my thoughts. and ask peoples what they thinks/read/understand/use when they setup the miner. like in real life feedbacks from the consumers is precious datas.

tranquil mango
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maybe show the mean as stacksize and have the tooltip show the actual range

supple haven
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there is something to do with this idea.

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maybe reduce the range of drones for ores. why there is 5 pages for the same orelist. can we resort this to use at max 2 drones per orelist?

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book the hightier drones for high tier ores. why should i use magnetoblablabla orange glowing drone when i can just put a blue ikea drone instead. kekw

tranquil mango
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the uxv drone is kinda useless currently, thats true

supple haven
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you can't mine coal with high tier drone. this is already implemented , maybe strengthen the constraint.

tranquil mango
supple haven
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yes some spatial maths/range management, i figured that out when playing with this multi. its an interesting mechanics. you also find commons values, like 21, 85, 175, 210 iirc with only those 4 values you can grab almost anything. imo its a good idea. but i also think the overlaps between ore vein ranges is to high.

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by reducing this overlap, we could target veins we want more.

wise lion
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You need overlap for early tiers, so you don't need 10 miners right away, just to get some source for "all" ores

supple haven
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SE is op. i don't think its a good idea to only setup one miner and call it a day, gg you have anything here. VM should run a bit more for more precises veins until the SE has like 5-6 mining modules.

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i remember the first time i turned on the mining SE, it was like 5k of ore by just standing in front of the terminal.

wise lion
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It should be that strong, thats the reward for finishing the uiv circuits line (MK2)

zenith hatch
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At that point of the game both ores and ore processing is effectively solved to the player

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Since ore processing plants exist in late uhv and void miners already existed in late zpm.

cerulean holly
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hi vk

raven pumice
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Hi abby

robust drum
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I would like to weigh in and say all of this nei business and coolness factor could be fixed with a nice UI that explains things, possibly a map based on range with asteroids along it, and when you hover over them they show their contents.

Whoever made gorge absolutely cooked, that ui looks awesome, and having something like that will not only make operating it more fun and cool but will make NEI clutter less of an issue as well as make the spreadsheet less required