the_ukraine_situation

[split aurora]

and human rights violations from both sides

[viral junco]

They could likely hold em in the west and have them be big bargaining chips

[split aurora]

mhmm

no doubt russia will attempt a breakout

[copper monolith]

rip in piss https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506313259447726094?s=20&t=_xrNmnZz4nU-TuqPYl7PmA

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Ukrainian forces shoot down Russian plane bombing the city.

The plane was taken down by Ukrainian military at 4:45 p.m. on March 22, Mariupol City Council reports.

Likes

11769

Retweets

1854

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 4:54 PM

[viral junco]

I mean there's plenty of cellars they could find near the polish border

Spread them out

[paper cedar]

Can't they send POWs back to their country or something?

or try to use them in a good way

[viral junco]

I read a thing in the kyiv independent earlier

[split aurora]

there are very strict rules for how POWs are held

[viral junco]

Apparently they're sending back the corpses of Russian soldiers for Ukrainian pow's

[split aurora]

They can be released back to russia, but russia would just draft them straight back

Best solution just to humanely keep them as prisoners till the wars end

[paper cedar]

Yeah but too many of them is also not a good thing

[viral junco]

Offer repatriation to those who are willing and jails to those who are war criminals

Is what likely will happen

But whataboutism never got anyone anywhere

[paper cedar]

hmm

I wonder if there is a chance to make POWs into their own army if they are willing to

like Russia POWs to Ukraine soldiers

[viral junco]

I mean there are a lot of soldiers who hate russia

[paper cedar]

yeah so convincing them to fight against them might work

[viral junco]

Like the conscription stuff then being sent to be made into meat shields

[split aurora]

I don't know if international law permits it

id be very surprised if it does

[viral junco]

I mean it is clear that international law is being thrown out the window

[split aurora]

due to the worry of coercion

[split aurora]

that doesn't mean we should encourage it.

Both sides breaching international law is bad.

[paper cedar]

What could also work is to have russian POW sent back to Russia army and make the russian a spy for Ukraine

I wonder if that's already happening

[viral junco]

Yeah double agents have existed

In the past so it is likely to happen

[copper monolith]

hm https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506326795989225477?s=20&t=97kNw8tlE9z4BsjbyarBAw

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Greek foreign minister wants to travel with humanitarian aid mission to Mariupol.

Nikos Dendias said at a news conference he wanted to lead the mission to the besieged seaport city in southeastern Ukraine, which is home to a sizeable ethnic Greek community.

Likes

1831

Retweets

388

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 5:47 PM

[split aurora]

that sounds suicidal

[copper monolith]

ye

[viral junco]

If Russians shot him what happens then?

[keen sorrel]

Lots of angry words

[copper monolith]

maybe a couple inconsequential sanctions

[keen sorrel]

Plenty of twitter debate on whether any random nato articles apply

[paper cedar]

If that happens then Russia will have even higher consequences

[split aurora]

Lot of words, tensions rise, nothing really happens

imo

also if he was to die it'd be more likely just collateral damage then targeted

from riding into a city being shelled

[clear creek]

Hope this day wont be rememberd for another trategy in europe

[copper monolith]

hm?

[clear creek]

Brussels airlines atack of 22 march 2016

[copper monolith]

oh

[split aurora]

standard response

[viral junco]

also somewhat good news

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1779

https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/2526

[leaden grove]

I‘d argue that the shelling in Mariupol is not exactly collateral damage

[split aurora]

depends what shelling

[leaden grove]

Cf. the report by the AP

Well, it‘s a city under siege

The city does not exclusively consist of combatants

[split aurora]

no, but a huge part of it is

[limber jolt]

very easy to risk it going this far

[copper monolith]

not again

[split aurora]

and russias not exactly using precision weapons

[leaden grove]

I think it’s a deliberate strategy

[limber jolt]

while neither side wants this, both sides will threaten it and push each other to a point where it's quite likely one might actually do it

that's the danger

[leaden grove]

Are you referring to a nuclear strike or something else?

[limber jolt]

first one

[scarlet crown]

probably yea

[limber jolt]

responding to someone who pinged me a while ago saying it was just fear mongering

the risks when two nuclear powers are in direct conflict are very real

[scarlet crown]

It is fear mongering

[leaden grove]

It is a valid concern

But at this point I don’t think the US will engage in any way

[limber jolt]

if there is an actual war between NATO and Russia, it may not escalate further, but it may also be the end of civilization as we know it

[split aurora]

"Saying a cop will shoot me after I slap him is just fearmongering"

[limber jolt]

and there's no way to know

[split aurora]

and with that imma go

[leaden grove]

that’d be a very American thing

[split aurora]

yes

[limber jolt]

especially considering Russian plans that have since been declassified from the Cold War for an invasion of Europe literally involved using nuclear weapons and praying NATO wouldn't retaliate

[leaden grove]

Sadly I imagine this happens fairly often

[split aurora]

a Florida court recently defended a retired cop shooting a man dead

because the man threw popcorn at him

[limber jolt]

what the fuck

[leaden grove]

How

[scarlet crown]

It's Florida

[split aurora]

'murica

[limber jolt]

it doesn't have to be the US though

[scarlet crown]

Everything you'd think would never happen, happens in Florida

[limber jolt]

if any NATO member starts fighting that's dragging basically all of NATO into the war

if it's offensive it's not as certain

iirc

nothing in the treaty for NATO actually says that countries have to support each other if they attack first iirc

but it is a defensive alliance

[scarlet crown]

still would be a very coward move to just leave a member hanging

[limber jolt]

the reason our civilization has come so close to destroying itself in the past is because leaders didn't want to take actions that would make them look "weak"

[split aurora]

nato members never supported eachother agressively

you didn't see germans marching through derry, or italians in algeria

[limber jolt]

NATO doesn't want to look like the aggressor, individual members can, but the organization as a whole doesn't

[scarlet crown]

so attacking the aggressor makes you an aggressor?

[split aurora]

yes

thats.... just how the meaning of the word works

you may be justified, but you're still an agressor

if you didn't have an alliance/guarantee with the original defendant

[limber jolt]

^

basically if you're the one attacking first, barring any other war that's going on, NATO doesn't guarantee that other members will help you

as in, regardless of who started a conflict, if a NATO member gets involved without being directly attacked the rest of NATO isn't obligated to help

when people say that the idea that a war between NATO and Russia could destroy civilization is fear mongering, my response is that, if that's true, how come both sides were so afraid during the Cold War from directly fighting?

that's the situation we've gone back to here

the only difference is that in pretty much every other way Russia is far weaker than it was when the Cold War started

[leaden grove]

Could you explain that?

[split aurora]

agressor simply means

the one who started the hostilities

Russia started hostilities between russia and ukraine

but if nato fired the first shot between nato and russia

then nato would be the agressor

as our shot changes the situation from peace to war

if you invaded a fascist state to stop a genocide

you'd still be the agressor, as you invaded them

even if theres a very good chance you'd be fully morally justified

[leaden grove]

But who’s seriously talking about invading Russia

[split aurora]

A no-fly zone counts as an act of war against russia

and that's being talked about!

That would make us agressor

[zinc talon]

@scarlet crown hey, how are things going for you?

[leaden grove]

There‘s a difference between invading a country and a no-fly zone

[split aurora]

Of course, but both are acts of war

[leaden grove]

If a full no-fly zone were imposed, that would at most mean taking out air defenses on Russian territory

[scarlet crown]

Way calmer than first weeks of war, just going about my usual routines, watching news

[leaden grove]

And that‘s assuming you go for a full no-fly zone which seems unlikely at the moment

From what I‘ve heard even Poland‘s suggestions don’t call for a countrywide military mission

[zinc talon]

glad to hear, haven't been around to keep up with everything going on but i read odessa being targeted atm

[hushed magnet]

thats good to hear!

[leaden grove]

Btw ein, do you still have school? How‘s that being organised?

[hushed magnet]

make sure you look after yourself and take breaks if you need to

[scarlet crown]

not to full extent, but yea, sadly. They can't send in troops from the sea so they're just terrorising people with rockets, but even then air defences are working excellently

[scarlet crown]

It's online, that's all i can say. organisation varies from school to school but mine is just

ehhhh

[leaden grove]

Fairs

I’ve heard of a lot of Ukrainian refugees here still taking part in online lessons at home

[scarlet crown]

Yea that is true

only thing is most people don't really take it seriously

especially graduating grades

[leaden grove]

I can imagine

[hushed magnet]

yeah i imagine itd be hard to take it seriously

[leaden grove]

Though I’ve heard that supposedly people will be able to take their final exams from abroad too

[scarlet crown]

It's an odd feeling to try and sit there to learn while knowing what's happening in the other parts of the country

hearing air raid sirens

[leaden grove]

Yeah…

[scarlet crown]

nobody fucking knows!

ministry of education still can't decide how they'll remake final exams and uni applications in these conditions!

[leaden grove]

Probably all a bit chaotic right now

[scarlet crown]

first they say they will cancel them

then they say it'll be online but without computers..

[leaden grove]

hmm, weird

[scarlet crown]

it's a mess that I'll look into when dust settles

for now it's just a blur

I try to at least be present for most classes, but aside from that, there's nothing truly mandatory

homework you can do if you wish to, but even that varies from teacher to teacher

[copper monolith]

how many pupils attending school rn?

🤨 https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506368248346030085?s=20&t=3cHfl-PBA0VSwA71e0sD1g

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Ukraine's FM: German restaurant fires Ukrainian employee for criticizing Russia's war.

According to Dmytro Kuleba, Rizzi restaurant in Baden-Baden fired an employee for posting a video, where he said that Russians were killing civilians and destroying cities in Ukraine.

Likes

2061

Retweets

692

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 8:32 PM

[scarlet crown]

Honestly no idea, but if we talk about my class, there's only 5-6 people per average going into meetings

so yea

[paper cedar]

rip their reputation

[scarlet crown]

RIA news making a post about destroyed ukrainian tech and using a picture of ruined occupant tech...

they're not even trying anymore

well that's interesting..

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1780

[copper monolith]

hm

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506371322171035656?s=20&t=hfnsaJwDDZ5TSLjQ4LT3Ng

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Zelensky to join NATO summit on March 24.

President Volodymyr Zelensky will give a virtual address to the NATO summit participants. He will speak about the need to stop Russia’s war crimes by closing the sky above Ukraine or supplying the country with air defenses.

Likes

4313

Retweets

984

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 8:44 PM

[limber jolt]

@scarlet crown I hope things get better for you and your country

out of curiosity, do you speak only Ukrainian and English, or Russian too?

[scarlet crown]

they will get better pal, this war claims our rebirth

[limber jolt]

I ask only because I speak some Russian, and my family comes from a part of Russia pretty close to the border with Ukraine, we have family in both countries

[scarlet crown]

I naturally grew up with russian due to living in Odesa, but I learned ukrainian at school

[limber jolt]

makes sense

[scarlet crown]

i don't remember how I learned english, just blame unsupervised internet access

[limber jolt]

I've been able to sometimes piece together a bit of Ukrainian but not that much

[limber jolt]

similar story for a lot of people I guess lol

[scarlet crown]

what does the russian part of the family say about the invasion?

[limber jolt]

well both sides are Russian, grew up in the USSR, I guess a mix of Russian, Ukrainian, etc.

we all hate Putin and have for a while

[leaden grove]

My grandparents grew up in Stalin’s Soviet Union so it’s been a bit harder to deal with them

[limber jolt]

my parents grew up under Brezhnev in the USSR

[copper monolith]

based, same

[limber jolt]

my dad was actually drafted into the Soviet Army at one point in the 1980s

they moved to America in the mid-late 90s

[copper monolith]

my dad brought up his service in the soviet army earlier today, how they would wake up early in the morning and exercise in the -30C cold... no thanks

[limber jolt]

I have similar stories from my dad

he was in the Soviet Army around the time they were invading Afghanistan, but wasn't actually sent there

[leaden grove]

My grandpa was born in Kyiv but spent WW2 in Kazakhstan as a child before returning, my grandma is from a small town near Vladivostok but later ended up moving to Kyiv after a brief stint in Odesa

[limber jolt]

apparently other family members were involved in the cleanup at Chernobyl

[leaden grove]

Oh wow

Back when my grandpa was young he was more or less excused from military service because he was a university student

[copper monolith]

my grandma is also from Vladivostok

[limber jolt]

my grandmother lived in Rostov

grandmother on my mom's side, the only surviving grandparent I have

she lived under nazi occupation when she was like 4

[leaden grove]

He told me that they only received very basic training and were then sent to repair various electric stations across Ukraine (he studied electrical engineering)

[limber jolt]

her father was killed fighting in the war

[leaden grove]

Ayy, Vladivostok buddies?

[copper monolith]

oof, I hope nobody in your family developed anything cancer related

[limber jolt]

not that I know of

[copper monolith]

❄️

[limber jolt]

involvement wasn't actually being at Chernobyl, but more iirc one of them was an engineer decontaminating vehicles and such

[copper monolith]

ah

[leaden grove]

Oh yeah

[limber jolt]

and my dad's side of the family was in a village near Kursk

during ww2

you may have heard of the battle of Kursk

[leaden grove]

Yeah

[limber jolt]

the village they were in was occupied by the Germans, although his dad was saying that those soldiers were just German Army and actually kinda... nice?

as in, they treated them like actual humans

not like the SS would

lots of people from former Soviet countries here wow

[leaden grove]

My dad‘s side of the family is Baltic German/Estonian though I know a lot less about that since both of my grandparents on that side are dead, though I still get to have an Estonian last name

[limber jolt]

and since I speak Russian, I was listening to Putin's speeches when the war started and can confirm that he has gone completely insane

[stark inlet]

https://trans.info/en/russia-maersk-281292

Uh oh

[leaden grove]

Yeah, but his essay last year was like that too

[stark inlet]

Iirc maersk controls 30-35% of port logistics in russia

[leaden grove]

It‘s all about his legacy and whatnot

[limber jolt]

tbh I think it's more a vague "justification" for a strategic move that really doesn't care about the people in either country

because he's a dictator now

he just doesn't care anymore about the people

probably never did

[leaden grove]

Yeah

I really don’t think there’s any rational explanation for this war

It’s mainly based on him projecting his fears and historical ambitions onto other countries

[limber jolt]

the only explanation I can think of is Russia was trying to make a strategic move of some sort, as an example, gaining control of Black Sea ports, or Ukraine is one of the largest food suppliers in Europe, so it's entirely possible Russia's trying to become completely self sufficient

so that economic sanctions hurt them less

what Putin didn't expect if that's the case was uh... the West instantly destroying Russia's economy as well as the Ukrainian military being actually good

[leaden grove]

Yeah, but they could achieve that food-wise without any extra land

[limber jolt]

not if your entire country is so corrupt it's kinda funny

[leaden grove]

The main thing that can’t produce is high-tech goods, which mainly affects various vehicles and the military

[limber jolt]

yeah more likely this is just straight up imperialism

[leaden grove]

I think that at this point he doesn’t really care

[stark inlet]

Russia wanted to resurrect the soviet union geopolitically

[leaden grove]

If he wanted to back away he would have

[stark inlet]

Turns out theyll only rez it economically lmao

[limber jolt]

not necessarily, but return themselves to the influence they had in the world definitely

[stark inlet]

Back in the 70s

[leaden grove]

And if he really cared about what Russians think, he likely would have only invaded the entirety of the Donbas and called it a day

[limber jolt]

that's what I thought he was going to do

like, that's still bad

[leaden grove]

Yeah

[limber jolt]

but it's not largest land war in Europe since ww2 bad

[leaden grove]

But Russian propaganda has been drumming up for war against the entirety of Ukraine for a very long time

[limber jolt]

my mom has described pretty correctly imo the current Russian government as being pretty much fascist

full blown totalitarianism and nationalism

[leaden grove]

I mean, they are returning to Stalinist-like measures

Such as the new laws and the denunciation website one party launched

[limber jolt]

I wouldn't call Stalin fascist, not really

fascism is a form of totalitarianism but not totalitarianism itself

it's as if they went to Stalinist measures but on the far right instead of left

[leaden grove]

The boundary is a bit blurry

[limber jolt]

like they went the complete opposite economically

but exactly the same politically

[leaden grove]

I assume you‘re referring to Nazi Germany?

[limber jolt]

when talking about Fascism, yes

or Mussolini's Italy

[leaden grove]

Their main economic goal was becoming independent from other countries

[limber jolt]

tbh yeah at this point the result is the same

there's a joke I have told about Stalin before

"Stalin was egalitarian, everyone had an equal chance of going to the gulag"

[leaden grove]

Lmao

[limber jolt]

some Russian political jokes are genuinely the funniest thing I've ever seen

[leaden grove]

They‘re pretty great

[limber jolt]

because whoever is saying them knows full well that they could be arrested and put in jail for telling those jokes

[leaden grove]

Oh, there‘s this amazing short story called Grandpa and the Partisans

[limber jolt]

oh I don't think I've heard this one

[leaden grove]

It’s set in 1950s Estonia and deals with the narrator‘s grandpa, who is a Kolhoz chairman by day and spends his nights building bunkers for the local partisans and then watching them

It’s very funny but also touches on partisans in general as well as Soviet security services

[limber jolt]

there's a joke I remember seeing

[leaden grove]

It’s like eight pages, I might scan it someday

[limber jolt]

"A judge walks out of a courtroom: 'I just heard the funniest joke ever!' 'What was it?' 'I can't tell you, I just gave someone 10 years for it!' "

[leaden grove]

🤩

I‘m gonna get ready for tomorrow but thank you very much for the convo!

[copper monolith]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60801586

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1781

Honestly not many believed he'd come so far

[copper monolith]

👀

[split aurora]

Most influential person in Europe

I'd say putin for starting the war is significantly more so

lmao

[copper monolith]

shh as of the 24th Russia is detached from Europe

[split aurora]

lol

First the UK now russia

Europe's challenging australia for smallest continent

[scarlet crown]

Yeah, for being the world's biggest fucking madman

Zelenskiy's influence is actually inspiring

we've never had a president yet that raised Ukraine in the eyes of EU so much

[split aurora]

I mean, it's just rated on pure influence

rather then positive/negative

[scarlet crown]

I get that, but still

don't want to attach any awards to putler

fuck the guy

fuck him

[split aurora]

hence why....

[scarlet crown]

yeah yeah we get it

it's always easy to move the world just by being a ruthless dictator, cool, ok

[copper monolith]

ah TIME, the best judges of character

[split aurora]

They claim its as its purely "the most influential person of that year"

though.... take that as you will

[copper monolith]

INFLUENCE THIS

[split aurora]

lmao

[scarlet crown]

the guy matured a lot as a leader throughout these years, and this war forges him further

Uniting people, urging the whole world to put an end to this ridiculous war

besides all odds and risk, still choosing to stay here with people

very inspiring

[copper monolith]

and inside the biggest target of a city, and after several assassination attempts by """highly trained""" assassins he still stays there

[scarlet crown]

With him, the whole world knows what Ukraine is, what we're made of

not again will we be asked "Ukraine? is that in Russia?"

this is a big turning point for us as a nation

perhaps once this war ends, we'll finally be able to get on EU standards of life

[split aurora]

Let's hope a recognisable ukraine comes out in other end

[scarlet crown]

rephrase please

[copper monolith]

like, not too destroyed

[split aurora]

Not too destroyed physically, or politically

[scarlet crown]

No one has guarantees for it, but I know for a fact that no matter how much damage will be done, we will repair

[copper monolith]

hopefully with both Russian and EU money, let me tell you the infrastructure upgrades we've had here in Lithuania are quite nice

[split aurora]

I can't see russia paying reperations

[scarlet crown]

yeah it is doubtful

[copper monolith]

while the tsar is sitting there, probably not

[scarlet crown]

I honestly have a feeling at times, that even if we win, they'll just go for the nuclear option

they don't know how it is to lose

it's beyond their pride

Facing reparations would essentially mean breaking the facade of propaganda

people will be in utter disbelief

[split aurora]

Ukraine has no leg to stand on to demand reperations

it could only do that... if russia had an incentive for a peace deal beyond just pulling out troops

eg: if ukraine was marching into russia

which I can't see happening

Russia marching all troops out of ukraine is the same as a peace deal "to go back to pre-war borders"

so Russia won't take a deal worse then that

unless ukraine is marching into russia, which again, I don't believe possible

sooooo Europeans poorest country will have to try and rebuild with its own money alone

[grand pier]

Europe's poorest country is Moldavia though

[split aurora]

Ah, moldova and ukraine are pretty much tied exactly

GDP per capita less then 1% apart

...though Kosovo is far lower, the source saying ukraine lowest must not recognise :/

[scarlet crown]

what about the west funds and promises of other countries in helping with reparations

[copper monolith]

EU membership for Moldova and Russian army out of pls

[grand pier]

i know i'm going over there to volunteer in helping the rebuilding efforts

[split aurora]

gonna be honest as soon as this war ends, I expect them to refuse to give shit

the west doesn't care about ukraine

they care about being anti-russia

(west as in, western governments)

[scarlet crown]

damn sounds very similar to some kremlin narrative my guy

[split aurora]

It's not lmao

[grand pier]

So that is why the EU is contemplating speedrunning Ukraine's application?

[split aurora]

the west has had hundreds of proxy wars

against russia

I struggle to see how Ukraine is different

then say, afghanistan in the 80s

[split aurora]

That hurts russia

as it drags ukraine firmly out of their sphere

[grand pier]

as a bonus yeah

have you considered they might actually care

[split aurora]

yes

[grand pier]

and just take the hurting of russia as a bonus objective

[split aurora]

and I consider the chance of that very unlikely

as it would contradict so much of the last 70years of european politics

[grand pier]

Almost as if in those 70 years a lot of things changed

[scarlet crown]

doesn't mean they shouldn't do something because they haven't done it earlier

[split aurora]

okay but

If theres a pattern

of dozens/hundreds of events

going the same way

consistently

for 70years

and a new event comes up

I'll believe it will go the same way

until proven otherwise

[grand pier]

there is never a guarentee it will go the same way

and thus i will believe it might not

[split aurora]

I want to see proof first

before expecting the end of the expected trend

[scarlet crown]

Then we just have to wait

[grand pier]

and i expect the trend to end and will just be dissapointed when it doesnt

[split aurora]

Plus, the west doesnt care about any of the other ongoing global conflicts

right now

some of which being far more destructive then ukraine

if the west suddenly cares so much about humanitarianism

why do they only care about 1 of the many ongoing conflicts

[grand pier]

ah, the good old whataboutism

[split aurora]

It's not

You're argument is, the west has changed

but

every piece of evidence

suggests

they haven't

I am citing evidence lmfao

whattabouitsm has become a word for "i dont want to hear your argument"

[grand pier]

And what things is the west not caring about according to you?

[split aurora]

The genocide in Yemen

The genoicde in Palestine

the tigray war

the mass humanitarian crisis in afghanistan

the wars across the sahara

[split aurora]

the west actively supports this one

British jets sold to the saudi's are involved in the deaths of thousands

all of these are ongoing events

[grand pier]

condemned and objected to by at least my government and i'm pretty sure several others but also very little to be done about it while the world economy still depends on the saudi oil

[split aurora]

the USA and Uk are the backbone of it

UK jets and US military guidance attack civilian targets daily

[grand pier]

this is A LOT more complicated than that and you know it

[split aurora]

Yes of course it is, but I still class it as a genocide, that the west is supporting

🤷‍♂️

anyway, this is wildly off topic

[grand pier]

Spain actually finally accepted Morocco's plan to possibly solve this so

[split aurora]

imma hop off now

[grand pier]

well fair enough, this was a crisis of our own making and we kinda messed up on that, though i'm sure more would have been done if not for other shit having happened

[grand pier]

Pretty sure both parties declined help from the west in this though i'd have to research it more, have not really followed the news on it beyond headlines

[hollow hollow]

nations really only care about humanitarian crises that have strategic value to them, sad but it’s the truth

europe and the us need ukraine to win this, but they don’t really care about yemen

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1782

[copper monolith]

god damn fucking animal

[hushed magnet]

jesus christ

[icy ridge]

Fucking hell

Also does this mean World War II is basically back on for just Russia and Japan?

[viral junco]

@icy ridge its regarding the kuril islands

[copper monolith]

technically those 2 countries never signed treaties, so WW2 technically didn't completely end

its dumb

[hollow hollow]

did anyone ever find those il-76s that supposedly got shot down? i think us intelligence confirmed at least one of them, and they’ve been pretty reliable so far, but i also have difficulty believing that no one found a flaming fucking cargo plane wreck in the middle of a field

[copper monolith]

this?

[copper monolith]

from the wikipedia page on il-76s

the source is this https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548

feb 26th

oh fuck it's just an archived live page

[hollow hollow]

yeah that, it’s a little hard for me to believe it without hard evidence

a wreck like that would be a really easy find

but who knows, maybe the russians got to it first and didn’t let any images out, idk

[copper monolith]

hm, so far seems that all sources point to Ukrainian officials

the top google search for il-76 shot down

but considering how fucked the Russian tech is, and how much modern NATO armament is flowing into Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised

[copper monolith]

ok ye, some sources link to this AP live updates page

[fierce arch]

are you just ignoring how much support there has been for syria

ukraine is a european country

with strong ties to the west

no shit that its been getting more attention

are we all supposed to pretend this isnt happening and go focus on yemen

many of those conflicts have been dragging on for years if not decades. are you surprised when they get less attention

[limber jolt]

what about Russo-Japanese War?

[fierce arch]

that was before ww2

[limber jolt]

yes but Russia and Japan have a history is my point, and I'm not sure if either really liked the treaty signed from that

specially considering Russia then collapsed a few years later and Japan was invading Russian territory during the Russian Civil War iirc

[limber wagon]

Yeah, this is a bit of a bad take tbh. So much different, and its all just asserted

[limber wagon]

"no u"

In other news

New boat. Lots of UAV's today and yesterday. over 100 planes lost.

Also it feels like there has been quite a bit of artillery lost in the last week

[viral junco]

Another boat down

[scarlet crown]

Who even listens to the guy anymore

how can he even be a minister of foreign affairs

[limber wagon]

I assume its mostly for internal reasons, and has barely anything to do with talking to foreign countries. It would look weird if there is one government official that talks very differently than the government mandated propaganda

[nocturne osprey]

https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1506378691428892673
https://twitter.com/TomFromTartu/status/1506535014787424256

Christian Borys (@ItsBorys)

Important and accurate map.

Likes

19589

Retweets

3748

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 9:14 PM

TomFromTartu 🇺🇦 (@TomFromTartu)

@ItsBorys Yellow represents the areas where many sunflowers will grow

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 7:35 AM

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1783

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1785

[clear pebble]

Tomorrow is the 1 month mark... just so weird to think about

[copper monolith]

[zinc talon]

https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1506596249398566913?s=20&t=VIVXRTfEJQ5LMpPTJFVx6w i've never been at a point where scrolling through my twitter tl made me nauseous

Marcel Dirsus (@marceldirsus)

Here's an alternative theory that might sound crazy but hear me out: Instead of blaming NATO for Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, we should blame Russia for Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Likes

262

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 11:38 AM

^ https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1506459225010196484

The Economist (@TheEconomist)

The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia. Writing in a guest essay for The Economist, he explains why https://t.co/N55u6Va7I1

Likes

564

Retweets

196

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 2:34 AM

[copper monolith]

whoa what? I don't believe this

[limber wagon]

God I hate this take so much.

it always reduces NATO to just the US and then pretends as if they 'conquered' or strong-armed or whatever those countries in to joining.

[copper monolith]

gee I wonder why NATO expanded by accepting the countries that gained independence from the USSR

why would they join nato instead of russia's economic union

[limber wagon]

Instead of ya know, joined themselves because they thought it was a smart idea.

This take

[zinc talon]

dunno

[zinc talon]

who's to say

[limber wagon]

And this is kinda what I mean. They're talking as if NATO is just the US, as if a verbal agreement from the US, not NATO has any meaning and as if the USSR is the same as Russia

[copper monolith]

kremlin should've hired someone that actually speaks english instead of putting this text through google translate

too cheap to even ask their RT division 😔

[limber wagon]

Hang on, I've got another incredibly based take

Oh, and my dad actually unironically shared this in our family group chat

[zinc talon]

makes total sense

[copper monolith]

whoever made this was so close yet so far to understanding why Ukraine wanted to join NATO

[copper monolith]

my own new world order is better

[split aurora]

also like

Hypothetically speaking, if we were to accept that (and I'm not saying we should accept it outside the hypothetical) NATO agreed not to expand, and they violated that, and that they provoked russia against nato

in what fucking world would that justify an invasion

[fierce arch]

you to hate me?

[split aurora]

as like
A. Ukraine isn't in nato -> They aren't involved in the provocation
B. Breaking an agreement not to diplomatically expand... isn't a fair justification for war
C . Ukraine had no part i. the agreement

even if you give the maximum possible hypothetical beliefs to these guys

the idea instantly breaks down

[zinc talon]

you got it all wrong! The nato thing was why russia had to gather at the ukraine boarder. They invaded to free citizens from an illegitimate nazi regime, that was developing chemical weapons for the US

[limber wagon]

no, as in "the media is programming you to hate me"

[split aurora]

sooo the man is saying it would be right for the woman to murder the man

because he brought a knife into bed

lmfao

[fierce arch]

i love broken grammar

[split aurora]

it makes absolutely zero sense lmao

[copper monolith]

remember that the entire country somehow transported from a different universe

[zinc talon]

i can't listen to people justifying this anymore. There are so many contradictions and false claims..

[split aurora]

Also I love their flip flopping between justifications

"Ukraine is producing WMDs at Chernobyl!"
Captures Chernobyl
Never mentions the issue again or provides a shred of evidence

[mighty tusk]

frankly, yes

NATO and America might as well be interchangable in this kind of convo

[limber wagon]

Not really

I wont deny that the US largely leads NATO, but its not just the US

[mighty tusk]

America is the leader of the West and is the major reason NATO can exist

NATO also therefore almost never does something we do not want

[split aurora]

the USA breaking a promise isn't the same as NATO breaking a promise

lmfao

[mighty tusk]

It might as well be the US Allies Club

[limber wagon]

Thats not the same as "interchangable"

and also they are different entities

[mighty tusk]

yes it is, because anything NATO does is kind of what the US wants and is definitely approved by the US

[zinc talon]

It's not just the us that decides the nato's actions. All countries have to agree

[mighty tusk]

by your definition shadow govts can never exist

[limber wagon]

???

[split aurora]

California is one of the most powerful states in the USA, but california doing something is not the same as the USA doing something

in the same way, the USA doing something is not NATO doing something

NATO doing something, if it was authorised by X member, would be similar but not the same as X member doing something alone

[zinc talon]

this is one of the worst takes on this tbh

[split aurora]

^

[mighty tusk]

USA doesn't listen to most authorization period

We are an imperialist militarist country with the biggest military budget

We break shit all the time

Saying that the US actually needs other NATO countries to agree on their own is kind of naive imo because it doesn't look at outside factors

for instance, bribes, takeovers of countries, threats on their own, things we do not see in international conflict

[zinc talon]

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49178.htm

[mighty tusk]

and the fact of the matter is, if US wants it, it is usually going to go for it

[limber wagon]

I swear, what is this take

The difference

Yeah, the US has a lot of control and power, but they are not the same

[mighty tusk]

omfg you dont read

You don't need them to be the same thing for one to basically control the decision making

[limber wagon]

And those countries that joined NATO, they did not join the US, the US didn't pressure them, they joined on their own volition.

[mighty tusk]

because turns out not being allies with a super giant militarized country is not a great idea yeah

I don't get the take that that is a good thing

[mighty tusk]

I don't think the ally system is ever a good idea

And I always believe there is centralized power in the end

ah yes the organization says that

which is a great thing to do

"Hey (organization), are you an asshole?"

"No"

my take is naturally more conspiracist than "oh what do they say on their page" frankly

[limber wagon]

what even are you rambling about?

its making no sense

[mighty tusk]

Uhuh

[zinc talon]

pretty much not how it works. Just look up US-German North stream 2 conflict. If it where for the US, NS2 would've never been build. It took a huge amount of pressure to get the german government to freeze the project

[copper monolith]

@mighty tuskpls cease

[mighty tusk]

bruh

[copper monolith]

anyways, a thing from #872103408285417534 that was posted a couple days ago, Rogozin managed to get 2 rivals in the space industry to work together https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1505892782224904196

OneWeb (@OneWeb)

We are pleased to announce that we have entered into a launch agreement with @SpaceX that will enable OneWeb to resume satellite launches.

The first launch with SpaceX is anticipated later this year.

Find out more about the announcement at:
https://t.co/qvSAOIP04n

Likes

5085

Retweets

732

Twitter · Mar 21, 2022, 1:03 PM

manchild proceeded to have a meltdown

[limber wagon]

Dont forget this https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1505879400641871872?s=20&t=2f0StYo0KLsKc6SWiFU3vw

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace)

Notable: Important space officials in Germany say the best course for Europe, in the near term, would be to move six stranded Galileo satellites, which had been due to fly on Soyuz, to three Falcon 9 rockets.

https://t.co/PHlykfTPRG

Likes

1110

Retweets

107

Twitter · Mar 21, 2022, 12:10 PM

Happened on the same day

[copper monolith]

thank u rogozin for moving extra funding for ur space agency to another private one owned by some 50 year old meme lord

[mighty tusk]

i think countries are trying to make way for a more capitalist "competitive space system (and eventual economy), which sucks

[zinc talon]

one can only love german twitter. People keep debating about azov and right wing groups being equipped with german weapons

[limber wagon]

Oh yeah, I can imagine

Things must be pretty ... spicy there lol

[copper monolith]

luckily only half of german weapons work

[zinc talon]

had to laugh

[split aurora]

one rifle in each hand

double your odds

[limber wagon]

Luckily some more east German weapons are on their way https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1506613438856015875?s=20&t=UElyW_WoKegnkvl-QOrGag

Phil Stewart (@phildstewart)

(Reuters) - Germany says further supplies of Strela missiles are on their way to Ukraine following delays. The missiles had been in the inventories of the former Communist East German army.

Likes

110

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 12:46 PM

[split aurora]

I like how this is just a showdown of soviet tech

russia has soviet tech

ukraine has soviet tech

eastern europe is sending soviet tech

this is just a dumping ground for the worlds excess soviet tech

[limber wagon]

It makes sense, less totally new and unfamilair stuff or some things even very similar as the current stuff

[split aurora]

plus a lot of its in the process of being phased out

[limber wagon]

Otherwise you would need to train people in how to use your stuff. So if you've got stuff they already know how to use, then thats great

[split aurora]

might as well send it to someone who will use it rather then landfill

[limber wagon]

Yeah

[split aurora]

and hey in warfare, older reliable kit can often be better then newer flashy stuff

theres a reason every 3rd world nation and or rebel group uses ak patterns

[limber wagon]

When in doubt, use rock

and when you think about it, a bullet is just a fancy rock

[split aurora]

Rock but shiny

and fast!

[copper monolith]

then find better alternatives to energy asap you loser

[limber wagon]

Wasn't there some deal with Qatar? dunno the specifics

[zinc talon]

while most economists here agree that germany would survive without russian energy (at least for the next year) which would be enough time to put pressure on russia

[queen valley]

Nuclear plants may have a bad vibes
But atleast they aint using gas and oil from russia

[split aurora]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/3/20/germany-seals-gas-deal-with-qatar-to-reduce-dependence-on-russia

still working out specifics

likely no gas will flow for a while yet

[limber wagon]

Nuclear power isn't really a short term solution though. it takes time to build a nuclear power plant. or even restarting closed ones can take months

[split aurora]

40% of exports come from those top 3

[limber wagon]

Honestly, one of the only short term options is either somehow reducing oil/gas usage or getting it from a different source.

short/immediate term

I wonder if Norway could temporarily supply Europe with extra oil

Since they are a tad closer than Qatar

[split aurora]

thats gas specifically, not oil*

both the UK and Norway still make quite a bit of oil iirc

norway makes 1.7mn, uk 0.95mn barrels per day, as of 2020

[limber wagon]

Just trying to install a shit tonne of solar panels in a relatively short time might also be a fairly quick thing to do.

They're relatively cheap, a lot get manufactured already and they're simple to install

[zinc talon]

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1506617939629334541?t=rJuqY-pSKz1a6WUd-oYGfA&s=19

max seddon (@maxseddon)

Putin has ordered to make Europe pay for gas in rubles – potentially a big boost to the currency.

"The collective West has killed all trust in their currencies," he says – $ and € are "compromised" by sanctions on Russia's central bank reserves.

https://t.co/LyMrk2NwRy

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 1:04 PM

[split aurora]

the UK used 1.6mn per day, so a net defect 0.65mn, Norway about 0.25mn, so a net of 1.45mn

[copper monolith]

lol

[split aurora]

Yeah no this is probably significant

[limber wagon]

Yeah

[split aurora]

this could cause either a mass pullout, or a big stabilising force on the ruble

[limber wagon]

But from my understanding, doesn't he want more foreign currency? to actually buy stuff?

[split aurora]

He wants payment in ruble, to push the value of the currency up

[limber wagon]

My understanding of the economics of this is kinda limited, so I'm not really getting how this would work

[split aurora]

Consistent massive payments in rubles for gas/oil will do wonders of the value of a ruble

I think!

Economics weird!

[limber wagon]

Ah, that could make sense

[split aurora]

I Think as like, it builds confidence in the currency

people know there's gonna be continous mass usage and spending of rubles

which makes value go up

[limber wagon]

But then those countries will burn through their reserve of Rubles right?

[copper monolith]

value already going up, fuk

[limber wagon]

And with all those sanctions I can imagine its kinda hard to get more

[split aurora]

...sounds possible?

Honestly I know fuck all about economics

[limber wagon]

I wouldn't worry too much about that value tbh. Those sanctions are in a way preventing it from changing, and no doubt Russia is also doing whatever it can to prevent it from going in to freefall

[split aurora]

I've tried to understand it but my brain just refuses to grasp it

[limber wagon]

Once you start talking about it at large scales it just becomes very funky

[split aurora]

yeaaah

[zinc talon]

https://twitter.com/ulrichspeck/status/1506536155877150723

Ulrich Speck (@ulrichspeck)

Through "a large trade and current account surplus because of energy exports ... Russia is generating a constant hard currency flow in euros and dollars. If you’re looking at sanctions evasion or the effectiveness of sanctions, this (is) a major loophole." https://t.co/5IYxhNqZ96

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 7:39 AM

on that matter

[split aurora]

I think part of the this issue as well is quite how asymmetrical cutting off gas imports would be

Turning off rhe gas would hurt german companies a lot more then American ones, and Germany doesn't want to see domestic brands replaced by American competitors

issues like that have to be patched before united decisions on more sanctions can be made

[zinc talon]

prices of local production would certainly increase

[copper monolith]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506618035729276941?s=20&t=7LXth86-Ar5CIJsf9cpM2A

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️ Russia uses white phosphorus bombs in Hostomel and Irpin.

Russian forces targeted Kyiv’ suburbs with phosphorus bombs on the night of March 22, according to Irpin Mayor Oleksandr Markushin.

The use of such weapons against civilians is banned by the Geneva Conventions.

Likes

4295

Retweets

1943

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 1:05 PM

but can your face be defended from my fist

[viral junco]

Jesus christ

Nato needs to get in now since they said they'd be involved should chemical weapons be used

[split aurora]

I don't think its classes as chemical warfare internationally

as white phosphorus is used in every tracer round and smoke bomb

its just classes as a standard industrial chemicalb

[limber wagon]

It does if its used as a bomb or weapon

How its used is very important

[viral junco]

WP literally burns off skin Charlotte

[limber wagon]

e

[split aurora]

I was just searching for that lmao

sooo depends how its being used

and against what targets

[copper monolith]

seeing other sources report this, like https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/urkaine-chemical-russia-phosphorus-bombs-biden-b2041973.html

[split aurora]

we don't know either of those

I hope its not civilian targets

though In this war it very likely could be

[split aurora]

though, even if it is a military target, its hardly a very "precise" weapon

so that's a lot of collateral damage

:/

a civilian firing out of their house makes that a valid military target, but the precision of russian weapons could wipe out the whole street aiming at the 1 valid target

[limber wagon]

Damn

We learned today that companies do give in to demands after they've gotten hacked

[split aurora]

good

I'm glad they are still selling medicinal products, as well

[copper monolith]

mhm

they should like, lower their prices so that the taxes that go to the government are insignificant

[hollow hollow]

i heard they were using wp early in the invasion, is that true?

[limber wagon]

I agree Russia

[split aurora]

lmfao

these people have zero self awareness by god

[stark inlet]

spec ops the line

[split aurora]

wat

[stark inlet]

Iirc it more or less was about using wp on civilians

[limber wagon]

"Ethnicity based pandemics"

[stark inlet]

Pretty, uh graphic stuff was included there

[copper monolith]

[queen valley]

That literally sounds like the plot to a metal gear game, complete insanity to be hearing like this

[split aurora]

Russia's made extensive use of chemical warfare in Syria

I pray the same isn't brought to ukraine

[viral junco]

There was the possibility floating about but not til now

[limber wagon]

Very big if true https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506601245573849095?s=20&t=UElyW_WoKegnkvl-QOrGag

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Bucha City Council: Ukraine's military surround the towns of Bucha, Irpin and Hostomel near Kyiv.

It means that the Russian troops north-west of Kyiv are now encircled.

Likes

26508

Retweets

4337

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 11:58 AM

I saw this OSINT map from about 20 hours ago, so it seems possible I think?

[split aurora]

There was a few uncomfirmed reports of this the other night

[hollow hollow]

a little off topic, but i honestly thought that scene was really poorly executed because it literally forces the player to use the wp and then directly attacks the player (not the character) for doing so, i thought it was a really cheap move that kinda ruined the game

[limber wagon]

But that most be at least a few thousand soldiers I imagine

[copper monolith]

big W

[hollow hollow]

if the player were given a choice it would’ve been so much more effective but they went the lazy route and only gave one option

[limber wagon]

Found another very accurate map lol

[split aurora]

lmfao

[copper monolith]

wtf is that near Lviv

[limber wagon]

I assume those are all the areas where conflict is happening according to them. Since there were a few missiles there

But then there is transnistria, a very real and existent front

[scarlet crown]

ah yes, truly accurate

[split aurora]

Afaik theres been no recorded fighting there

theres russian troops on the border but I don't think nay have crossed into ukraine

might be wrong

[scarlet crown]

there'd be no issue if those very same russians would respect our culture in the first place

[limber wagon]

You are totally correct.

[scarlet crown]

yeah there hasn't been any movement recorded from there

[limber wagon]

There are 1500 static troops stationed there iirc.

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1791 Mariupol today

literally wasteland looking

burnt and broken buildings, grey terrain

[lilac sparrow]

Puts a whole new meaning to “if looks could kill”

[scarlet crown]

russian news yell all around that famous canadian sniper Wali was killed, he posted this pic in response

[copper monolith]

lmao

[copper monolith]

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1506604722744172546

Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs)

BREAKING:  Russian govt official Anatoly Chubais has stepped down and left the country, citing his opposition to Putin’s war in Ukraine, sources tell Bloomberg News. He is highest-level official to break with the Kremlin over the invasion.

Likes

21881

Retweets

5228

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 12:12 PM

what are the bets he gets poisoned before the decade ends

[scarlet crown]

the odds are hella high, but this is a big move

[zinc talon]

Wtf when you dive in too deep into Nazi fantasies

[zinc talon]

This one i meant to pin

[scarlet crown]

The fuck is ethnicity based pandemic

A fucking ukrainian-only virus??

[limber wagon]

A virus that would only infect a certain group of people

[lilac sparrow]

Literal plot to metal gear V

[limber wagon]

But its a thing that doesn't exist, and likely isn't possible

[scarlet crown]

So ridiculous

They're just not gonna stop with "WEST FOUNDED BIOLABS!!!" are they

[limber wagon]

Because "ethnicities" aren't a yes/no thing. Its a gradient.

[lilac sparrow]

It is technically possible, rather the antibodies need to be present in some parts of the world rather than the other

[limber wagon]

And with the way virusses evolve there is also no way to stop them from infecting the rest after a while

So thats just stupid and no one wants to develop something like that

[split aurora]

yeah its fantasy technology

It was literally the plot of Sapienza in Hitman

[limber wagon]

Yeah, but the difference between 2 countries, even if they're different ethnicities isn't that big. Nor is it the same at different places in the same countries. And thats not even mentioning when people of different ethnicities have children. Which happens all the time.

[split aurora]

plus "ethnicity" is a very hard thing to categorise or measure

[lilac sparrow]

Yea

[limber wagon]

Or the fact that you would be targeting civilians as well and people of the target ethnicity living in other countries

[limber wagon]

Yeah, basically just arbitrary lines drawn.

[zinc talon]

Also Plot of a fringe episode lmao

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1506646337856675842
Jeff Seldin, poster, is a security correspondent for the USA state owned Voice of America radio broadcaster

Jeff Seldin (@jseldin)

BREAKING: 7,000-15,000 #Russia|n troops likely killed in #Ukraine, per a @NATO official briefing reporters on condition of anonymity

Total losses -including wounded, captured or missing- could be in the 30,000-40,000 range

Estimates based on #Ukraine intel, observations

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 2:57 PM

[limber wagon]

So those are the official USA™️ estimates?

[scarlet crown]

Which are heavily relying on ukrainian intel

[split aurora]

Its a fairly reliable source posted alleged official nato leaks

[copper monolith]

👀

[limber wagon]

ah, I see

[lilac sparrow]

Damn, Russia has lost more soldiers in almost a month than america has while in war for 20 year

[zinc talon]

It rather requires a certain genetic part which also would be involved in a pathway leading to the wanted effect

[lilac sparrow]

I think the 7-15k are casualties which sometimes involve the wounded personnel

[scarlet crown]

I'd count wounded as killed too since it's very common for them to leave soldiers behind

[limber wagon]

There is a lot of arguing to be had about the terms. I think 'losses' generally means anything killed, destroyed, incapacitated or captured.

And big enough injuries can fall under that

[split aurora]

no thats 7-15k killed

30-40k losses

losses is anything that puts a soldier out of the fight

Death, major injury, capture, surrender

[limber wagon]

Kyiv Independent uses the term losses as well, and the 7k-15k figure seems to correspond to Ukraine's 15.6k estimate

But thats killed vs losses? So thats quite the disparity

[zinc talon]

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2022/03/22/amanpour-kremlin-spokesperson-dmitry-peskov.cnn

[split aurora]

terminology is... vague

we wont know the full story till long after the last shot is fired

[zinc talon]

if i where to be a russian soldier, i would be worried that "everything was going as planned"

[split aurora]

"Man, this is a shit plan"

[scarlet crown]

god, the way he tries to speak english

[zinc talon]

that smudge smile

[scarlet crown]

there, he just fucking said it, the main goal is to get rid of ukraine's military

another question is, why?

who gave them the right for it

why would ukrainian military be an issue in the first place

[zinc talon]

he answer it later, claiming ukraine military was prepared for an offensive not for defense

[scarlet crown]

jesus

they really believe these damn lies

god his fucking lies about Mariupol

sickening

i'll stop watching, i can't

to see this old deranged fuck say all that with a smile

I feel like the cnn reporter is really trying to hold herself together too, no one likes to be told genuine fucking lies in their face while you know the truth

[zinc talon]

https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1506199893098090496

Mujtaba (Mij) Rahman (@Mij_Europe)

Senior Ger officials tell me Berlin's opposition to energy sanctions is “unlikely to change” unless 🇷🇺 uses “chemical or nuclear weapons”. Can that hold at this week's EUCO? One idea would see a “coalition of the willing” - member states with less 🇷🇺 energy dependency, move first

Likes

175

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 9:23 AM

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1506611264973414402

Dmitry Grozoubinski (@DmitryOpines)

@Mij_Europe @marceldirsus Very cool of Germany to hint that if Putin literally nukes Mariupol they'll seriously consider cutting down on gas purchases a bit.

Maybe have a debate in the Bundestag about it.

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 12:38 PM

I'd be better getting of twitter for today..

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1796

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1797

[copper monolith]

new wendover 😳 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTrpwzVt4g

[icy ridge]

How is Kyiv, Mariupol and Odessa doing?

[copper monolith]

almost W

[scarlet crown]

Odesa is calm, occasional explosions but most of the rockets get struck with air defences

Kyiv seems to be fine, shelling still continues on residential areas

Mariupol is still in a blockade, although there's been some progress with evacuating people

russian forces make it near impossible to solve the humanitarian crisis there

from intel service of Ukraine, it seems that syrians are being hesitant on fighting in Ukraine after hearing about high russian losses

[copper monolith]

lmao

[scarlet crown]

previously promised 300-600$ don't sound all that exciting now

[copper monolith]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506685900289449993?s=20&t=xws7_c6_6XpKH5R-OOA0Hw https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506669262357909507?s=20&t=xws7_c6_6XpKH5R-OOA0Hw

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️ Swedish Defense Minister: Ukraine to receive 5,000 anti-tank weapons.

The TT news agency quoted Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist saying that the country will provide additional anti-tank equipment.

Likes

763

Retweets

148

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 5:34 PM

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️ Baerbock: further Strela missiles are on their way to Ukraine.

According to German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock, the country will provide Ukraine with Strela surface-to-air missiles, after weeks of delivery delays.

Likes

6668

Retweets

1158

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 4:28 PM

👀 https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506644343830024192?s=20&t=xws7_c6_6XpKH5R-OOA0Hw

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Stoltenberg: NATO to supply Ukraine nuclear, chemical protection equipment.

NATO Secretary General said the alliance will agree to provide Ukraine with “cyber security equipment” and supplies to “protect against chemical, biological, radiological & nuclear threats.”

Likes

16167

Retweets

3753

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 2:49 PM

[limber wagon]

Thats quite the ratio

87.3% of all buildings destroyed in Kharkiv are residential

[viral junco]

Peace keeping btw

[limber wagon]

of course

I'm sure there were Neo nazi's or equipment in all of those buildings

[hollow hollow]

he dead lmaoooo https://mobile.twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1506610195945897989

David Frum (@davidfrum)

Ukraine newspapers cite Russian sources: Russian defense minister Sergei Shoigu has disappeared from public view since March 11, reportedly with "heart problems." https://t.co/00KXatWw2J

Likes

3474

Retweets

1115

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 12:33 PM

[scarlet crown]

wheeezeeee

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1808

[limber wagon]

I guess they don't like dying, starving and/or getting frostbite

[viral junco]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506696461743968263

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Bloomberg: Russia’s Central Bank governor tried to resign over war in Ukraine, Putin rejected.

Elvira Nabiullina, who has held the post for nearly 9 years, tried to quit when Putin ordered a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Bloomberg reported, citing unnamed sources.

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 6:16 PM

[hollow hollow]

if anyone ever sees or hears from sergei shoigu again after his recent “”””heart problems””””, i will eat a stop sign, no cap

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1810

[stark inlet]

Technically speaking its not a lie

Heart stopping after jumping off a window/getting shot/whatever is still a heart problem

[hollow hollow]

also here’s a bit of footage showing a russian tank getting atomized by an atgm https://mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1506699917074513921?t=LSjZcLCByuizRLngJO14zA&s=19

🇺🇦 Ukraine Weapons Tracker (@UAWeapons)

#Ukraine: Very dramatic footage showing a claimed Russian tank obliterated by a Stugna-P ATGM.

Likes

918

Retweets

196

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 6:30 PM

[stark inlet]

Aww how cute they were good friends

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/2626

[limber wagon]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506595655589978113?s=20&t=vOjoDBOZqQlAJMTtmor_BA

NEXTA (@nexta_tv)

⚡️In the center of #Moscow, an unknown person threw a Molotov cocktail at the #Kremlin wall.

Likes

12692

Retweets

2302

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 11:36 AM

[copper monolith]

is that a Ukrainian version of Rammstein's Sonne

[hollow hollow]

he dead or in a gulag now for sure

[scarlet crown]

👀 what do we have here

now this

this is cool

i think someone already sent this here before

[copper monolith]

fricc

[copper monolith]

u smell

[scarlet crown]

.

[stark inlet]

Ah a man of culture

[copper monolith]

https://twitter.com/mbk_center/status/1506369684945391624?s=20&t=l1qI9YYQWEfcvTr-QDbj9A

Mikhail Khodorkovsky (English) (@mbk_center)

The dump outside Luzhniki Stadium after that very concert.
Just the essence of it all in one photo.

Likes

41309

Retweets

7743

Twitter · Mar 22, 2022, 8:38 PM

[scarlet crown]

needs some gas and a lighter

[copper monolith]

hell yeah

[hollow hollow]

gyas

[latent willow]

https://gamerswithukraine.gg/ bonk

[copper monolith]

gaming

[stark inlet]

Gamers rise up

[scarlet crown]

hell yeah gamers

to help ukraine, get your moms credit card and write us numbers on the front, don't forget the funny numbers on the back!

[stark inlet]

Lmao

One of the major polish banks is already reporting that companies that left russia are making more money

Than companies that didnt quit

https://mobile.twitter.com/PKO_Research/status/1506659319936344065

PKO Research (@PKO_Research)

Bojkot sieci handlowych, które nie wycofały się z Rosji, to więcej niż tylko hasła w mediach społecznościowych. Dane o płatnościach kartami @PKOBP pokazują, że sieci, które pozostały aktywne w Rosji, mają niższą dynamikę obrotów niż konkurencja. #StandWithUkraine

Likes

1194

Retweets

401

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 3:49 PM

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/andrewsweiss/status/1506622495977259016

Andrew S. Weiss (@andrewsweiss)

THREAD: Things are not going well for Putin in Ukraine war. But slew of news today should remind everyone that Putin definitely knows how to build and exploit leverage. 1/x

Likes

4892

Retweets

1117

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 1:22 PM

[low rover]

Like you can’t make this shit up

How fucking insensitive can you be

[scarlet crown]

bruh

Honestly it's internet, no wonder people will try to hype on a fucking war

[hushed magnet]

yeah i mean i dont think its worth giving the attention atm

[stark inlet]

tbh

im pretty sure one of those graphs is leroy merlin vs either castorama or obi

afaik other than auchan there arent any significant chain stores staying in russia

that are also widely available in poland that is

btw castorama left russia in 2020 and obi did so 6 days ago

[fierce arch]

who are you criticizing im so confused

[low rover]

The article

[fierce arch]

do you not notice the irony?

[low rover]

???

There’s no irony in this article

[fierce arch]

what the fuck do you mean

did you read the entire thing

[low rover]

Why are you being so apprehensive

Oh fuck i’m dumb

Nvm

Look it’s hard to detect when something is fake when you read literally the first four lines

I’m just gonna stay out of this channel from now on, i say nothing but shit that is wrong

[hushed magnet]

why would you post something here before even reading it???

[low rover]

Idkf

Im already having a bady day

[scarlet crown]

My guy it's better to stay offline then

[low rover]

I’m just gonna stay out of this channel, don’t @ me

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/UA_struggle/507

Forest fires are probably the last thing we'd want to be dealing with

[hushed magnet]

[copper monolith]

man

[viral junco]

thats only moscow though

[stark inlet]

there was nothing about avtovaz (Lada), which belongs to the renault group

and iirc its the largest carmaker in russia

[viral junco]

it is

soviet era car dealership bought by em during the privatisation

[split aurora]

if they shut lada it'll like 90% be nationalised tbf

[copper monolith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qONDdAC3dCA

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1820 !!

[copper monolith]

a month already

[split aurora]

we did it reddit

90 people are dead

[copper monolith]

man...

[scarlet crown]

It's officially a crime here now to share pictures/locations of military forces

About 8-9 years in jail for it afaik

[split aurora]

sadly stuff like this is the issue with volunteer forces and reservists

Sure you can teach them to fire a gun

but opsec, weapon maintenance, working as a unit, keeping cool under fire

both ukranian and Russian forces are struggling with the higher requirements of combat as the war drags on

[hollow hollow]

according to this website, ukraine has 520 confirmed vehicle/equipment losses, but has captured 652 confirmed equipment/vehicle captures. although unlikely, it's entirely possible that ukraine started out with less equipment than they currently have. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

[copper monolith]

L https://twitter.com/wipljw/status/1506673602015473670?t=sjPHN0xr9ZM6mPVHUOuksQ&s=19

360°Radar (@wipljw)

The advanced Russian electronic warfare system Krasucha-4, captured on the battlefield in Ukraine, will be transported to the United States for investigation, the British Daily Telegraph reported.

Likes

8828

Retweets

2287

Twitter · Mar 23, 2022, 4:45 PM

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/UkrainaOnlline/23759

-1 ship

[viral junco]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506884915450851332?t=11LW8J7N3neEdOVSPFsEkw&s=19

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️Russian deputy ambassador to the UN: Russia retains right to use nuclear weapons if “provoked” by NATO.

In an interview with Sky News on March 24, Dmitry Polyanskiy said that Putin could use nuclear weapons if the country feels it is facing an “existential” threat.

Likes

1117

Retweets

330

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 6:45 AM

More threats as per usual

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1822

[scarlet crown]

I have no doubt they will try to use them

Putin pressing on the button seems pretty real, but I doubt the commanding will allow the launch

It's just utter madness

[limber wagon]

A very diplomatic statement that we totally haven't heard at least 10 times already

They just want to remind us that 'hey, we have this thing'

The vagueness of what "feels" and "existential threat" means in this context is kinda telling

[viral junco]

The more one threatens the less threatening one sounds

[limber wagon]

Same with threatening every country that wants to join NATO. Sweden, Finland, Bosnia herzegovina

[scarlet crown]

I feel like this is going into another nuke discussion so all I'll say is that the threat is very minimal but we should take certain precautions

[limber wagon]

Yes

[viral junco]

Yes

[scarlet crown]

a little step away from the news to relax a bit: check out this cat I found

[limber wagon]

Kitten

Average daily since the 24th

[viral junco]

I presume special equip. Is about comms etc

[limber wagon]

Just a 'misc' category basically. With things like that and the bridge laying vehicles included

[limber wagon]

And this is why being specific matters. If you want to you can claim literally everything is an "existential threat" https://t.me/bbbreaking/120588

[viral junco]

Zelensky to speak to dáil éireann on the 6th

[scarlet crown]

my my, how come?

wasn't everything going according to plan?

didn't sanctions only boost Russia and allowed it to focus on economy?

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1506885303012896769?t=MkaAb5Rz7E1Ge0Eu-UAZTw&s=19

OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical)

We’re now a month into the invasion of Ukraine, and the Russians risk being encircled outside of Kyiv. Wait, what?

Likes

5507

Retweets

580

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 6:47 AM

the feel

[zinc talon]

Life is a struggle for existence

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/GrangerE04117/status/1506891565482266624?t=2M4wpTq7hvvq8fa2gKk9cw&s=19

Granger (@GrangerE04117)

Details I got about the attack.

At 7:45 AM, a Tochka-U SRBM was fired towards the landing ships Saratov, Tsesar Kunikov, and Novocherkassk.

Saratov sunk at a depth of 5 meters
Kunikov and Novercherkassk left port damaged. 8 killed on Kunikov and 3 killed and 3 injured..

Likes

1928

Retweets

703

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 7:12 AM

bye bye boat

[scarlet crown]

русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/2684

[copper monolith]

Language genocide

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1506890398240813058?t=IM11q_g9OSkf9orEVqSWVA&s=19

Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko)

Welcome to the world where Ukraine, in which very few had faith in West, has spent a month successfully defending itself from the biggest military operation since World War II.
And now it has a very real chance of spelling the end of Russia as a world power.

Likes

34180

Retweets

4492

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 7:07 AM

[scarlet crown]

A ukrainian old man stole a russian supply truck and brought it to ukraine's military

[copper monolith]

охуенный дед

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/UkrainaOnlline/23797 and now, your most favourite genre: how prideful russian propagandists fucked themselves over once again

they basically just spoiled the location of the ship

[copper monolith]

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1837

[copper monolith]

[hollow hollow]

oh, it's beautiful... https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506913810321395717?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1506913810321395717|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Ftm1c6j%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dtrue

NEXTA (@nexta_tv)

Deputy Defense Minister of #Ukraine Anna Malyar said that the destroyed warship in #Berdyansk could carry up to 20 tanks, 45 armored personnel carriers and 400 paratroopers.

Likes

2765

Retweets

470

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 8:40 AM

[copper monolith]

holy fuck

so up to 400 troops + servicemen died on that ship

[hollow hollow]

it was in port, prob a lot less were on board

[copper monolith]

hm

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1843

[copper monolith]

Ukraine's army did what no NATO army did before, utterly humiliate Russian forces

[split aurora]

I mean...

its not a bad thing that NATOs never had that chance

[copper monolith]

true

[split aurora]

quite the opposite

[split aurora]

Also like.... this argument doesn't really hold up

The taliban defeated the USA in afghan

does that mean the taliban has a competent nato standard army?

defeating a powerful foe doesn't automatically mean you have a very powerful army

[fierce arch]

the taliban filled the power void when the us left afghanistan

[split aurora]

I mean - I do personally think the ukraine army is more then upto standard

I just don't think Zelenskys argument here is valid

[fierce arch]

and this is a full scale invasion, not a "us sends some tanks to a random country"

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1848

[clear creek]

So like evry news outlet here is calling out the falure of Russian planning and logistics

[copper monolith]

we've been doing that for a month as well

[clear creek]

Well a month is a lot for a special miletary operation issend it

Espetialy for one of the greatist milletary powers on the planet

[scarlet crown]

british defence intelligence posted a map as of 24th of march

[stark inlet]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506977167003070474

NEXTA (@nexta_tv)

After long rumors that Putin decided to remove Shoigu forever, they decided to show him on TV as participant of the government meeting. However, viewers noticed oddities during the broadcast. Pay attention to the top left corner.

Likes

3388

Retweets

674

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 12:52 PM

[copper monolith]

from the footage of the alleged meeting of Security Council, person notes that the first and last 4 seconds of this clip are the same https://mobile.twitter.com/prof_preobr/status/1506973819822555145

Проф. Преображенский (@prof_preobr)

Гостелеканалы показали (без звука) кадры якобы сегодняшнего заседания СовБеза, где присутствовал Шойгу (он в верхнем левом углу путинского монитора).

Ролик - 100% консервы.
Просто обратите внимание: первые 4 секунды и последние 4 секунды видео - это ОДНИ И ТЕ ЖЕ кадры.

Likes

2659

Retweets

518

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 12:38 PM

[hollow hollow]

there is absolutely no way that dude is still alive

he dead for sure

[scarlet crown]

or just fled

[viral junco]

Some refugees have arrived in my town

My school is going to be bringing in 2 new students tomorrow

[hollow hollow]

probably tried fleeing out a 10th floor window

[viral junco]

They aren't in my year, but I hope things can be good for them

[hollow hollow]

or off a bridge

[copper monolith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkPdHueD8Fs

[leaden grove]

The war on terror is/was a flawed idea anyways

[copper monolith]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1507041455826771980?s=20&t=f1nCmIPkuhCNZMjE8d6M0A

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

Exactly a month ago, on Feb. 24, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Here’s what it has cost Ukraine so far.

Likes

1730

Retweets

743

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 5:07 PM

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1507033950224805889?s=20&t=f1nCmIPkuhCNZMjE8d6M0A

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️ Poland won't pay for Russian gas in rubles says CEO of PGNiG.

Paweł Majewski, head of Polish largest oil and gas company, said that the contract with Gazprom envisions the payment method and Poland won’t change it.

Likes

14535

Retweets

2131

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 4:37 PM

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506994489998651393?s=20&t=f1nCmIPkuhCNZMjE8d6M0A

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️ General Staff: Russia deploys additional military equipment to Belarus, Crimea, plans to encircle Kyiv.

According to Ukraine’s Armed Forces, Russian troops are planning to attempt to encircle Kyiv and to occupy Donetsk & Luhansk regions.

Likes

5216

Retweets

1602

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 2:00 PM

[limber wagon]

I'm sure it will work this time /s

[copper monolith]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1506973659445010439?s=20&t=f1nCmIPkuhCNZMjE8d6M0A

The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent)

⚡️President’s Office: Russia will try to shift its war to the attrition phase.

According to Mykhailo Podoliak, advisor to the head of President Volodymyr Zelensky’s administration, Russia is forced to begin a war of attrition due to the lack of success and a high death toll.

Likes

7680

Retweets

1473

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 12:38 PM

[split aurora]

wouldn't be too surprising

the west's continued pressure is required to stop russia

and the west's unity is fragile

[copper monolith]

ello blazas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVCnFnsZ380

[leaden grove]

https://twitter.com/kevinrothrock/status/1506934853811458050?s=21

Kevin Rothrock (@KevinRothrock)

Interesting and worrying: Journalist Roman Super, who closely monitors Russia’s state media, says he expects the word “war” to enter the official lexicon very soon, apparently replacing the “special operation” term. But it won’t be against Ukraine, if I understand him correctly.

Likes

907

Retweets

326

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 AM

[split aurora]

https://www.portnews.com.au/story/7672842/ukrainian-agriculture-minister-resigns/

I saw an image of him in a video call the day before he resigned, man looked absolutely broken

can't blame him <3

[viral junco]

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1507008392803454988

Richard Chambers (@newschambers)

Something wonderful happening here.

This is Palyanytsya. It’s on Clarendon St in Dublin and it’s just opened today.

It’s a shop aimed at refugees who have just arrived to Ireland.

Everything is free of charge for Ukrainians who have fled their homes 🇺🇦

@VirginMediaNews

Likes

3798

Retweets

779

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 2:56 PM

thread above

[leaden grove]

https://youtu.be/gOmYi96cU1M

This is a really good investigation

[copper monolith]

based jammer

good video

[hollow hollow]

based burger man volunteer with a destroyed russian bmp https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974/status/1507054421334757382?s=20&t=wohCY52fb6coZ1aioqToSw

James Vasquez (@jmvasquez1974)

This village has been Russian occupied for a month, they terrorized the people and took their food. Today we entered, took out 7 tanks and countless Russians thus liberating these people

Likes

1241

Retweets

272

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 5:59 PM

[copper monolith]

call of duty

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/1878 The legends are set free!

[leaden grove]

Very based

[copper monolith]

[split aurora]

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1507089348772171776

Oryx (@oryxspioenkop)

#UkraineWar: A Ukrainian 203mm 2S7 Pion SPG after its capture by Russian forces. This is the first confirmed loss of the massive SPG in the Ukraine War.

Likes

936

Retweets

180

Twitter · Mar 24, 2022, 8:17 PM

[scarlet crown]

won't be surprised if we see his arm any time soon

but probably far away from the body

[copper monolith]

brutal

[unreal path]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLuMhUo37tg funny how it's the same five again

[scarlet crown]

It's barely even funny at this point

[unreal path]

Russia brought up NATO's intervention against Yugoslavia -_- yeah...and your point is?

oh and they said why didn't you guys vote in favor of our humanitarian resolution at the UNSC....I wonder why

[copper monolith]

Therefore it's fine for us to bomb children

[scarlet crown]

https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/2764 holy fuck

[unreal path]

like is Russia condemning NATO? then okay then we can condemn Russia guys they uses cruse missiles against Yugoslavia so why can't we use cluster bombs :/

a lion and a wolf? O _O

[unreal path]

other vote that happened btw

[unreal path]

geez, well glad they were able to pull it off that must have been a very nervous drive

[scarlet crown]

||https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/2765 ||(explicit)

[leaden grove]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/opinion/nato-russia-putin-estonia.html

[paper cedar]

What does action on L.3 mean?

[unreal path]

that's what I'm trying to figure out it was really confusing

I found a part where Denmark is speaking on the behave of the Nordic and Baltic countries

[unreal path]

https://youtu.be/mLuMhUo37tg?t=11438

[paper cedar]

hmm

[paper cedar]

thanks

[unreal path]

basically it was something to do with humanitarian action but there was nothing in it about Russia and Ukraine wasn't even part of the forming of the draft realted to L3