with those brittle chinese tires on
#the_ukraine_situation
stark inlet
jokes aside, russians picked a shitty moment weather wise to invade ukraine
assuming they were aware of the overall condition of trucks/tanks/MREs/etc
but hey, not the first time russian army turns out to be incompetent
buoyant sundial
Wow. That’s, like, “Germany invades Russia during winter”
stark inlet
that VDV parody song is stuck in my head for good
go google it, wont link it as its prob counted as a meme or sth
copper monolith
before the invasion actually happened, people speculated that russia was waiting for the ground to get more solid form the cold
doesn't seem to be helping them much
clear pebble
Russia is like, legendary for the cold, how could they botch this up smh
copper monolith
just one of the things Putin wanted to recreate from the "glory days"
buoyant sundial
Just like that time when Germany tried to retake the Sudetenland
zinc talon
copper monolith
man
zinc talon
not that this could harm the reactor but still, what idiot would attack a nuclear plant?
viral junco
not that this could harm the reactor but still, what idiot would attack a nuclea...
the russian military
split aurora
hushed magnet
true
clear pebble
Just waiting for him to combine them all to form a megazord or something
stark inlet
Turn two t-90s into a t-180
hollow hollow
seeing the burning husks of "best tank in the world" t-90s on that website i linked above brings me great joy
copper monolith
scarlet crown
God that's gotta be the most prominent thing for any kind of tech
It always wears down, no matter how many times you use it
Or if you use it at all
copper monolith
man... (the guardian)
hushed magnet
man
solid adder
woman
scarlet crown
they're not even hiding it at this point
If it's truly a peacekeeping operation, why would you need to jail protesters?
zinc talon
also twitters going to be blocked
viral junco
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1499763286392385541
L
grizzled steeple
"Fake news" where have i heard that before
buoyant sundial
also twitters going to be blocked
Imagine if Putin keeps tweeting things
icy ridge
man... (the guardian)
If I don't see a revolution starting.......idk what the young Russians are doing then
buoyant sundial
“I can tweet but you fuckers can’t”
scarlet crown
“I can tweet but you fuckers can’t”
now now sweety, it's Papa's turn to internet
icy ridge
split aurora
theres gonna be an entire fucking armoured unit
worth of vehicles
stashed in ukranian barns
by the time this war is over
stark inlet
stashed in ukranian barns
And people were saying that finding an old ford gt in an abandoned mexican farm in forza was unrealistic
grizzled steeple
Ukraine just invades russia in retaliation /s
split aurora
And people were saying that finding an old ford gt in an abandoned mexican farm ...
pfffft
forza 7 is just tank racing in ukraine
drifting a T-72
stark inlet
Armored vehicles dlc
viral junco
both the BBC and the main opposition paper in russia are to stop talking about the illegal invasion
grizzled steeple
forza 7 is just tank racing in ukraine
I wanna see that
stark inlet
I need my rank 999 t-90
grizzled steeple
Apparently there's a tank biathlon but thats something for another channel
viral junco
grizzled steeple
Get fucked coke
hushed magnet
tap water 💪
proven steppe
avoid these things
? what happened
viral junco
? what happened
they wont leave russia
similar to them staying quiet about the genocide in china
but then again they've been known for turning a blind eye to genocide
proven steppe
well im still gonna drink em... they taste good....
viral junco
viral junco
there's always store bought brands
mild heart
Yeah honestly they pretty much use the same ingredients anyways
viral junco
also others such as 7 up, club orange
hushed magnet
also like, you can just drink water instead because you wont kill your body in the process
and this could be a good opportunity to cut down on unhealthy shit like that, idk
proven steppe
i have 3 litres of pepsi next to me, so i'm good 😅
water is still the best
our tap water is awesome
split aurora
yknow boycotting brands that wont leave russia is very rich
proven steppe
granted, i dont live in america where tap water is dogwater
split aurora
This stuff is starting to annoy me tbh
zinc talon
~~also like, you can just drink water instead because you wont kill your body in...
ppl in flint beg to differ
hushed magnet
flint?
split aurora
flint michigan
tldr for like 15years they had a shit load of lead in the water
and caused countless people severe developmental and brain issues
hushed magnet
also yeah, what would coca cola pulling out of russia even achieve?
split aurora
people boycotting brands that sell in russia, while being perfectly fine with brands that profited off the nazi's, or sell in saudi arabia
that annoys me
and yes im aware jim you're gonna repeat the comment on whataboutism, but that isn't what im tryna say
keen sorrel
If you want to complain about colacola or complain about people complaining about cocacola there's a perfectly functional twitter hashtag you can use. Not here
nocturne osprey
avoid these things
pepsi fans stay winning
hushed magnet
i mean its fairly relevant no?
icy ridge
What is happening, I come back to an argument about coke?
keen sorrel
No really no, the news that they aren't moving is relevant. People being unhappy about it or trying to drag unrelated events into it (which is still whataboutism) is not
copper monolith
split aurora
Twitter
keen sorrel
Sorry you're not being clever by posting a tweet when I say the word
hushed magnet
What is happening, I come back to an argument about coke?
people are boycotting the coca cola company for not pulling out of russia
keen sorrel
You're still detracting from the current situation by talking about how older ones are handled.
split aurora
Sorry you're not being clever by posting a tweet when I say the word
I'm posting the definition of the word, I ain't trying to be clever or argue
I'm saying there should be a consistent way to respond to things
if theres a fire in 2 apartment blocks, and the government commits $1mn to rebuilding the left tower, and ignores the right tower. It's not whataboutism to ask why they are ignoring the right tower
it's trying to be consistent
icy ridge
People please, we should not be arguing about the Coke Boycott when there are more important things happening in Ukraine
keen sorrel
That only makes sense when thinking forwards. If a past event was handled differently and that was is considered worse, changing that approach is called learning.
split aurora
I mean I'm talking about current events, ones happening as we speak
hollow hollow
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499841937515425796?s=20&t=JtycB9_X7X...
thats a little sensationalist tbh
nocturne osprey
not really
icy ridge
thats a little sensationalist tbh
But true? Cause the fear is that Putin will not stop if Ukraine falls, invading former USSR countries
nocturne osprey
if Putin manages to take Ukraine, he won't stop there
split aurora
Anyway, I ain't tryna argue here, so I'll leave this here
keen sorrel
Well it is entirely possible the people who are acting due to this event now have their eyes opened to other ones. Of course neither of us have any way of knowing without asking that, so I'm not going to assume they don't.
hollow hollow
former ussr countries is not “the whole of europe”
copper monolith
he ain't gonna stop in Ukraine if he gets a W
solid adder
former ussr countries is not “the whole of europe”
would still start a war with the majority of europe
nocturne osprey
former ussr countries is not “the whole of europe”
if he reconquors ex USSR states he won't stop there either
hollow hollow
the thing is though, even if he can claim victory in some way, this entire war has objectively been a complete and utter failure for russia
hushed magnet
the thing is though, even if he can claim victory in some way, this entire war h...
i mean its still not over yet
keen sorrel
It's barely started
hollow hollow
kyiv could be taken today and the war would still be a failure. their economy is in the toilet, their people are demoralized, and their military is exposed as a paper tiger
copper monolith
great firewall of russia incoming
keen sorrel
A failure by our standards sure. But we also want it to fail so its easier for us to reach that conclusion. Who knows what putin's definition of success is here
limber wagon
great firewall of russia incoming
So youtube, Facebook, and twitter?
keen sorrel
On that subject https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50150981
grizzled steeple
Has the foreign weapons aid arrived in Ukraine? Surely by now they have right?
copper monolith
yeah they've been constantly arriving
having it public knowledge of when exactly that stuff gets delivered into Ukraine might harm that supply line
icy ridge
On that subject https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50150981
I would never have assumed the BBC would go Dark Web....but I guess desperate times mean desperate measures
grizzled steeple
True
icy ridge
Are they just gonna block the entirety of the internet?
silk iron
the dark web is more of a tool than anything
copper monolith
steam blocking russia when
dull crane
Russia is going back to the dark ages except with tanks
grizzled steeple
Associated Press and BBC should be on all layers of the internet tbh
icy ridge
Russia is going back to the dark ages except with tanks
Monarchy or USSR?
dull crane
before
copper monolith
putin's got a wet dream of bringing back ussr but at this point he's a tsar
dull crane
Let’s bring back the Romanovs
icy ridge
I haven't heard form them yet
icy ridge
I mean the Russian Orthodox Church would gladly support the return of the Romanovs haha
keen sorrel
On that subject https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50150981
Just noticed that is 3+ years old, which is interesting as it showed up in the app as if it were new
dull crane
Huh
split aurora
Just noticed that is 3+ years old, which is interesting as it showed up in the a...
tbf they might have re-popped it up
so people see it and re-share it
keen sorrel
Well that worked so gg
zinc talon
https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1499842282471792649 had a laugh here
Twitter
copper monolith
lmao
grizzled steeple
Hah
cerulean canyon
https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1499842282471792649 had a laugh here
Excellent
icy ridge
THIS WAS ON FEB 24 BUT STILL
ITS FROM THE ROMANOVS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1873379592929526/?ref=share
icy ridge
zinc talon
copper monolith
TIL the imperial family still existed, but I'd expect it's not recognized by the government
Twitter
icy ridge
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499472139333746691?s=20&t=f5iPcbkqSTg7s5QRm...
Hmmm....if he aimed it at both Ukraine and Russia, would Russians be able to bypass the Firewall that's happening?
copper monolith
idk
solid adder
that would make roscosmos v angy
copper monolith
Rogozin would go on a twitter tirade--- oh wait 
solid adder
split aurora
Hmmm....if he aimed it at both Ukraine and Russia, would Russians be able to byp...
problem is
its very obvious to authorities where the recieving dishes are
so you tune into that... enjoy many years in prison
grand pier
if theres a fire in 2 apartment blocks, and the government commits $1mn to rebui...
that isnt what is happening though, it's more like 5 years ago there was a fire in 2 apartment blocks and the government only rebuild one of them and now it happened again and the government rebuilds both cause they got yelled at for not doing that 5 years ago
and then people start complaining about why they didnt rebuild both 5 years ago when they are doing it now
people are capable of change and evolving their opinions
so they should not be reprimanded for not caring about a thing in the past
copper monolith
Hmmm....if he aimed it at both Ukraine and Russia, would Russians be able to byp...
unfortunately before the war, Starlink wasn't in public beta there, so nobody has the starlink kits, Ukraine only got theirs after the PM asked Elon Musk directly
grand pier
and instead be commended for caring now
copper monolith
and it's very unlikely Russia would allow shipments of Starlink kits now
grand pier
and i'm also not trying to argue, just informing anyone reading this channel
grand pier
any discussion i have in any public forum is never to argue directly with the other party, it's to allow anyone reading along with the discussion to be able to form their own opinions based on the points presented
leaden grove
The thing is that there are indeed other issues in the world that need our attention, but I would argue that we need to talk about them after this crisis is over
Consciously or not, we’re playing into Putin‘s hands
silk iron
what's all this about?
copper monolith
fun fact, the (man)child running Putin's space program is a neo-nazi
Russian government do be projecting
silk iron
name plz so i can look into it myself
solid adder
rogozin
copper monolith
the tweet is by a twitter user named @ArtfulTakedown
ain't gonna post it here cuz I don't want nazi symbolism in this server
but holy fuck this man
I am not even that surprised
solid adder
me neither
leaden grove
what's all this about?
It was an argument on whataboutism
silk iron
why are we condemning whataboutism when there's plenty of slippery slope arguments ongoing all around us?
split aurora
me and jim were discussing something, I decided to drop the matter since it's not the point of this channel and was getting us wildly off topic, and a few others are now putting in views
but we should probably let it rest now
copper monolith
hushed magnet
🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦
copper monolith
who would've fucking thonked
leaden grove
Idk, Putin might decide to follow Dugin‘s playbook even further
copper monolith
also thank u the guardian for the paywall warning
leaden grove
Judging from Mariupol alone they’re not keeping their promises
And considering how they lie on a daily basis it’s no surprise either
copper monolith
silk iron
basically Russians holding the Ukrainian citizens under siege to ransom, denying them aid and then acting as 'benevolent saviours' once they're starving.
they're literally starving resistance
split aurora
man the amount of war crimes, mistreatment of civilians and downright cruelty from both sides is heartbreaking to watch
humans can be fucking evil sometimes
silk iron
it gets to the point where it's just depressing
I pray some humanitarian corridor will somehow be arranged for when Kyiv is under siege
but i doubt it
split aurora
tbh im hoping they dont get kyiv under siege
hushed magnet
humans can be fucking evil sometimes
yep 😔
leaden grove
but i doubt it
Same
split aurora
they keep trying to surround it and getting driven off
leaden grove
tbh im hoping they dont get kyiv under siege
If they continue with this war, they will
split aurora
If they continue with this war, they will
idk russians been pushed BACK around kyiv
leaden grove
Because it’s only a matter of time until that convoy gets up running again
split aurora
they've lost ground today
silk iron
Kyiv will almost certainly be put under siege whether it's within a week or within 2 months after occupying the rest of the country
leaden grove
Yeah, but those were limited incursions
split aurora
Because it’s only a matter of time until that convoy gets up running again
russian convoys are being melted up and down the country
leaden grove
Because the commanders keep sending tiny units to the frontline
split aurora
that convoys been moving a mile a day
hushed magnet
Because it’s only a matter of time until that convoy gets up running again
i mean, is it?
split aurora
while getting bombared with artillery, RPGs and drones
leaden grove
As far as I‘m aware they‘re sending reinforcements from Pskov and the east
split aurora
russia has 92% of its army that was on the border
in the invasion
russia is running out of army to send
and the means to supply such army
im cautiously optimistic
mighty tusk
great firewall of russia incoming
jesus what
okay now this is getting wayy more fucked
progressively
leaden grove
im cautiously optimistic
If they get bored of that they can still use more missiles
silk iron
Russian forces from the south will cross the Dnieper take Odessa by naval invasion and will move on Kyiv from the south - but it'll likely be a month of two till then.
mighty tusk
look when you go for full on censorship it's getting extremely fucked
leaden grove
Or what‘s more likely, run out of missiles and start using bombs right away instead
split aurora
Or what‘s more likely, run out of missiles and start using bombs right away inst...
theyve been using bombs for days
they're running out of missiles
split aurora
gonna be honest, I can't see a clear route to victory for russia
they seem to have exhausted all their cards
mighty tusk
russia has an issue here charlotte though that is why they can't give up
they can't stop now because mo matter what
hushed magnet
look when you go for full on censorship it's getting extremely fucked
yeah true, russia has been doing censorship for long while, but theyve been cracking down more to the point where its just a dystopia
mighty tusk
the end of this war is condemnation from everyone
so they need ukraine to have more legitimacy basically now
they have to commit politically
solid adder
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1499780674538123273
I thought it was casually on his shoulder for a sec
split aurora
"never giving up" doesnt mean you'll win
silk iron
reading between the lines, Blinken is saying: "Ukraine is not going to win the conventional war, but Ukrainian forces may hold out in the West of Ukraine, and with good fortune and high resolve in the capital Kyiv as well". The war will likely take on a second phase in the long term with guerrilla fighting across the country.
hushed magnet
"never giving up" doesnt mean you'll win
^
mighty tusk
(not that I want Russia to succeed, this is just my interpretation)
hushed magnet
russia doesnt want to give up
mighty tusk
"never giving up" doesnt mean you'll win
100%
but this is their perspective likely higher up
hushed magnet
but it cant go forever
mighty tusk
they have no choice at this point
hushed magnet
especially while the economy sinks, and the war stays expensive af
split aurora
it'll go until either ukraines defences fall, or russia internally falls
mighty tusk
they went too far, can't backpedal
split aurora
one side will crack first
split aurora
and russia seems to be detiorating far, far faster then ukraine
split aurora
also uh, sorry about earlier charlotte
its alright
leaden grove
theyve been using bombs for days
These were the "precision bombs", soonl they decide to just give up on the notion entirely
mighty tusk
russia has had a legitimacy problem for Putin for a while
split aurora
These were the "precision bombs", soonl they decide to just give up on the notio...
that wasnt precion
mighty tusk
i assume this is Putin's desperacy play
leaden grove
It wasn’t, hence the quotes
mighty tusk
he could play dictator when the economy in russia was increasing
people would let him
split aurora
It wasn’t, hence the quotes
yes russia called it "precision" but thats them max dropping
mighty tusk
but with that not happening, his legitimacy going down
leaden grove
but with that not happening, his legitimacy going down
With younger people yes, with older people it might take a long time
mighty tusk
this also means that if russia loses this war
Putin will absolutely be overthrown
this is a desperacy play by him
split aurora
yep
mighty tusk
if he got ukraine easily he could extend his country's growth and regain legitimacy
leaden grove
Once again, there were excellent street interviews yesterday which kinda showed the divide between the young and old generation
split aurora
putin has no option but to keep pushing and hope for a miracle
mighty tusk
yep
silk iron
it's likely Putin would be overthrown if the invasion force completely flounders
split aurora
his army is melting in the field
mighty tusk
yep
split aurora
he's burning paratroopers
leaden grove
it's likely Putin would be overthrown if the invasion force completely flounders
or he‘ll decide to pursue an even worse plan
copper monolith
silk iron
but if he sues for peace with half hearted terms he'll hold on
split aurora
his convoys are being completely destroyed
mighty tusk
i wonder how long this will go on tbh
leaden grove
Could be weeks, could be months, could be years
mighty tusk
i dont see it longer than a month honestly adrian unless putin slows down his output
solid adder
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499863812601692161?s=20&t=9vmVAJMTxj...
based zelensky
split aurora
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499863812601692161?s=20&t=9vmVAJMTxj...
cringe zelensky
hushed magnet
yeah putin will not accept defeat, which is why russia keeps pushing for demands at whatever cost
tired ore
Idk where to put this but I feel it is appropriate here
silk iron
the main military invasion will last about a month i'd guess, cracking down on resistance probably years
mighty tusk
with donations ukraine essentially has infinite resources as long as the war is still relevant to the media
copper monolith
@solid adder@split aurorathe duality of man
mighty tusk
russia is
leaden grove
i dont see it longer than a month honestly adrian unless putin slows down his ou...
It took years to eliminate the resistance in the Baltic states after WW2
mighty tusk
limited
hushed magnet
Idk where to put this but I feel it is appropriate here
already posted a while back
split aurora
i only sent mine as a reply lmao
mighty tusk
It took years to eliminate the resistance in the Baltic states after WW2
yeah but hear me out
mighty tusk
perhaps yeah
leaden grove
- don’t forget about just bombing the entire country
silk iron
that would break the 'special operations narrative'
copper monolith
I too am against a no-fly zone if that means NATO would need to shoot down Putin's planes, but am def for mass donation of fighter jets to Ukraine
silk iron
so Putin won't fully mobilise if he can avoid it
leaden grove
Because right now their goal seems to be an occupation
But they might switch from that to full-on destruction
split aurora
They could yet declare martial law and mobilise most of their reserves
reserves would do 3 things
A. massively more supply usage
B. completely fucking destroy internal support
C. just make the army weaker and get pushed back harder
this isn't 1914
solid adder
I too am against a no-fly zone if that means NATO would need to shoot down Putin...
oh if so I'm against it too
leaden grove
And just raze everything to the ground
split aurora
"throw a million untrained men forward" isnt a military tactic
and im tired of people saying it is
hushed magnet
was it charlotte that made the point about the amount of russia's losses so far compared to afghanistan?
leaden grove
reserves would do 3 things
A. massively more supply usage
B. completely fucking ...
True, but I wouldn’t underestimate the power of propaganda here
mighty tusk
"throw a million untrained men forward" isnt a military tactic
yeah this isnt... tbh ever
idk why but
hushed magnet
I too am against a no-fly zone if that means NATO would need to shoot down Putin...
agreed
silk iron
generally untrained conscripts only fight 'somewhat' effectively when defending their homes
split aurora
True, but I wouldn’t underestimate the power of propaganda here
russia's propaganda has, so far, being extremely weak
mighty tusk
"they'd just throw soldiers at each other"
split aurora
and doesnt even scratch the surface
leaden grove
russia's propaganda has, so far, being extremely weak
In the country it has been quite effective with the older generation
mighty tusk
do british people know how much our textbooks make fun of their army
tired scaffold
do british people know how much our textbooks make fun of their army
Why would we, we don't have your textbooks
mighty tusk
like our textbooks say shit kinda basically like"
split aurora
In the country it has been quite effective with the older generation
and as they see thousands of young men leaving then returning in boxes a week later, while the economy dies, they lose their entire incomes and savings
how long are they gonna keep thinking everything is ok
mighty tusk
Why would we, we don't have your textbooks
"We won the Revolutionary War because the British soldiers were just sent forward with no brain, head empty, no tactics, while we gamered and used geurrila tactics."
leaden grove
Charlotte, you have to realise that there is a core base of Putin supporters that is completely detached from reality
mighty tusk
that's what
hushed magnet
True, but I wouldn’t underestimate the power of propaganda here
i mean, it says something that russia is resorting to banning every platform they can, arresting tons of protestors, and making "fake news" illegal
mighty tusk
our children are taught
tired scaffold
"We won the Revolutionary War because the British soldiers were just sent forwar...
lmao
the US won the revolution for two reasons:
-France sent loads of aid to the US
-The British home government basically didn't care and sent little of the Imperial army because they didn't want "real English men" to die for a colony
split aurora
i mean, it says something that russia is resorting to banning every platform the...
^^^
russias propaganda is losing so hard
they're resorting to extreme brutality
leaden grove
i mean, it says something that russia is resorting to banning every platform the...
Yeah, because they’re trying to win over young people
silk iron
when people are properly indoctrinated it's hard for them to accept the truth - they live in a world of denial
leaden grove
who use the internet and know where to get their information
split aurora
win over young people
martial law and extrajudicial punishments
hushed magnet
Charlotte, you have to realise that there is a core base of Putin supporters tha...
thats absolutely true tho
split aurora
alright imma go this is..... unproductive
hushed magnet
just speak to my parents ffs
copper monolith
russias propaganda is losing so hard
I'd like to believe that since my close fam listens to it, although on the internet
hushed magnet
my parents aint even russian, or close at all
split aurora
I think people need to take a closer check, and reconsider how much american and russian propaganda about russia theyve subconciously taken in
thats all
leaden grove
My grandparents are Russian though they lived in Ukraine for most of their live, and they closely followed state propaganda until very recently, and even then they‘re still wary of other media
silk iron
if you look at some of the new changes to the Russian education curriculum, you'll see their plans for preventing the next generation becoming corrupted with ideas of liberal democracy.
ill find a news source 1 sec
leaden grove
Yeah
hushed magnet
my parents are just QAnon lmao
mighty tusk
I think people need to take a closer check, and reconsider how much american and...
yeah ngl I thought the russian military was a lot more threatening
and im generally immune to my country's dumb shit
ofc it's threatening but
leaden grove
Also yesterday they screened a video in all schools which "explained" the war
mighty tusk
i didnt think it'd be like this
haughty yew
Tomorrow, if it turns out to be true
mighty tusk
oh god
leaden grove
yeah ngl I thought the russian military was a lot more threatening
Tbf, most military analysts I know were very surprised too
split aurora
yeah ngl I thought the russian military was a lot more threatening
yep, america makes a lot of false claims about russian propaganda and infosec too, to justify harsher internet laws
hushed magnet
free gifts
paper cedar
ayyup
I will literally just go to Ukraine to steal a TOR-M2 with a tractor so that I can become a millionaire
literally free money
copper monolith
I'm starting to worry we might not hear anything from Russia soon
stark inlet
theres a vid of a sky news journalist team getting ambushed by russians
christ
one of them got hit, their cameraman got hit twice
paper cedar
I'm starting to worry we might not hear anything from Russia soon
Russia is becoming more isolated everyday
leaden grove
It‘s a new iron curtain
mighty tusk
ok
im sorry but
i cant believe that fucking twitter is where war is posted now lol
zinc talon
https://twitter.com/RachelRizzo/status/1499871391193120769?s=20&t=w74A0XK3etIZYhmcHFJkwA based as always
Twitter
dull crane
I mean what else did you expect
leaden grove
i cant believe that fucking twitter is where war is posted now lol
It’s not the first war where that happened
Cf 2011 Arab spring
copper monolith
i cant believe that fucking twitter is where war is posted now lol
i didnt link twitter tho lol
mighty tusk
the photo has a tweet
copper monolith
and ye Arab spring was helped by social media
copper monolith
o u mean with Zelenskyy?
zinc talon
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-amb...
important to remember that many of those journalists on ground are freelancing, giving interviews and videos to outlets who don't even pay for it
dull crane
no Zelenskyy came in 2019
mighty tusk
the same place where i see pokemon gen wars there is an actual war being broadcasted play by play
copper monolith
not u celeestee
icy ridge
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487
Wtf
dull crane
Oh
leaden grove
historians are gonna have a field day
Just ask Bellingcat
mighty tusk
"when did x guy say that?
oh, twitter link"
cerulean canyon
I mean
It makes sense
Social media is used for a lottttt of stuff these days and it's the primary way people get information back and forth
I'd be more like "Jesus what is society coming to" if I saw this on Instagram
icy ridge
cerulean canyon
Welp
leaden grove
I heard that one guy faked being in Ukraine which is an awful thing to do
fierce arch
https://twitter.com/RachelRizzo/status/1499871391193120769?s=20&t=w74A0XK3etIZYh...
it wouldnt just be russia
CSTO
icy ridge
I feel like Pres has forgotten that closing skies would mean World War III
leaden grove
Belarus has openly refused to participate in Russia‘s invasion
leaden grove
I feel like Pres has forgotten that closing skies would mean World War III
Not necessarily
cerulean canyon
I need someone to explain to me why closing the sky means world war 3
copper monolith
I still would highly disagree with a no-fly zone, IF that involves NATO shooting down Russian planes, which would start getting us involved with the demented tsar, and an actual WW3
fierce arch
well
the entire point of a no fly zone
is that you shoot down any plane that enters
leaden grove
I need someone to explain to me why closing the sky means world war 3
Because people think that if NATO engages, then that‘ll lead to war in Europe
Hear me out
I‘m for a no-fly zone in western Ukraine
dull crane
Sleep: President Putin
Woke: Tsar Putin
cerulean canyon
Because people think that if NATO engages, then that‘ll lead to war in Europe
I feel like that doesn't have to happen though right
leaden grove
Not necessarily
zinc talon
I need someone to explain to me why closing the sky means world war 3
closing the sky means also imposing the closed sky. This woulr require nato forces to engage in shooting down planes violating said closed sky, which could be seen as an agression by russia, leading to a attack on nato members
leaden grove
And in all seriousness, I don’t think this is about Ukraine alone
cerulean canyon
Agreed
split aurora
I need someone to explain to me why closing the sky means world war 3
No fly zone = No russian planes allowed over
= it must be enforced
= planes must be engaged
=shooting russian planes
=russians shoot back
copper monolith
maybe it's easy for more western nations to say yes for a no-fly zone, but here in Lithuania, we have Russia's exclave to the left and Belarus to the right, and can get invaded from both sides, not to mention how both of those countries can invade the Suwalki gap
viral junco
NATO, if they dont get involved, have an obligation to the ukranian peoples to provide weapons to shoot down russian planes
leaden grove
^^^
cerulean canyon
^
split aurora
thats what they should do
cerulean canyon
I agree with this
fierce arch
what obligation
split aurora
Support nato in everyway that isnt an invasion
leaden grove
A moral obligation
copper monolith
yeah, send all the weapons and aircrafts to Ukraine
hushed magnet
NATO, if they dont get involved, have an obligation to the ukranian peoples to p...
yep
dull crane
No Fly Zone would just escalate this I’m afraid
split aurora
what obligation
they signed a treaty promising eternal protection of ukraine
fierce arch
no?
cerulean canyon
Link?
split aurora
2secs
dull crane
I just hope that the Baltics have troops at their borders just in case
fierce arch
send the treaty link
cerulean canyon
There’s nothing about protection here
Wouldn't assistance count as protection
Or
Like in a loose sense of the word
fierce arch
tbf
split aurora
fierce arch
nato is sending assistance
leaden grove
can you send the link
That’s just Wikipedia
cerulean canyon
I need a link
cerulean canyon
Ty, Charlotte
leaden grove
split aurora
under "budapest memorandum"
fierce arch
this says nothing
split aurora
The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
Ukraine is a victim to a threat of agression using nuclear weapons
split aurora
yes, they are obliged to provide assistance in protecting ukraine
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499875170386853897?s=20&t=RzF5XNWCJwqgmFczPx55mw
almost lost my shit, as my grandpa is from Pokrovs'ke, and the names are similar, and they're not that far apart
leaden grove
It says "UN security council assistance"
leaden grove
Which is not gonna work
split aurora
hm
fierce arch
if some other nation
leaden grove
All the treaty says is that they should involve the UN and other organisations
Which is what happened
copper monolith
more news agencies
leaden grove
So far it hasn’t resulted in anything but that UN resolution. Which is non-binding
fierce arch
al jazeera babyyy
grizzled steeple
I know it's war, but Zelenskyy seems real stressed.
cerulean canyon
full text in here
It also says this though
fierce arch
ALSO
split aurora
mhmm
copper monolith
I know it's war, but Zelenskyy seems real stressed.
who wouldn't be
fierce arch
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2022/3/4/will-nato-get-involved-in-the-war-in-ukraine
leaden grove
They‘ve said that for days
cerulean canyon
I know it's war, but Zelenskyy seems real stressed.
He has every right to be
I think it's only a matter of time before NATO gets involved tbh
fierce arch
i am gonna be dead honest
grizzled steeple
Man can't take any breaks.
split aurora
good
cerulean canyon
I disagree???
leaden grove
I think we have a moral obligation to supply Ukraine with planes and step in if that doesn’t help
cerulean canyon
^
split aurora
We must not destroy the entire globe trying to save Ukraine
fierce arch
to nato, the sovereignty of ukraine is pretty much meaningless when paired against the threat of war with russia
cerulean canyon
We must not destroy the entire globe trying to save Ukraine
Why does us getting involved guarantee the destruction of the world
Like why
fierce arch
oh you have no idea
split aurora
Why does us getting involved guarantee the destruction of the world
No fly zone = No russian planes allowed over
= it must be enforced
= planes must be engaged
=shooting russian planes
=russians shoot back
grizzled steeple
Im guessing the argument will be nuclear
fierce arch
not nuclear
cerulean canyon
I am not asking about a no fly zone
split aurora
it classes as an act of war
fierce arch
but partiallu
split aurora
on russia
split aurora
I am not asking about a no fly zone
what other involvement then?
cerulean canyon
I am asking you about in general, why it would guarantee the destruction
split aurora
I am asking you about in general, why it would guarantee the destruction
Any act of war against Russia, causes a state of war with russia, which carries a gargantuan likelihood of nuclear war
leaden grove
Especially since Putin is not the only one who has to agree to launch nukes
grizzled steeple
Im guessing the argument will be nuclear
Called it
leaden grove
Putin is a madman and he has to be stopped
zinc talon
Im guessing the argument will be nuclear
it's not about nuclear, It's about involving nato states which could lead to a further escelation of the war
mighty tusk
I mean
It makes sense
Social media is used for a lottttt of stuff these days and...
im particularly surprised it's twitter tbh
cerulean canyon
This is disgusting to me because people from Ukraine and Russia are all over the world
split aurora
How close do you folks want to get to the end of the world, I don't wanna chance it to one or two crazy peoples judgement
mighty tusk
i'd think it'd be facebook or something
cerulean canyon
Literally all over the world
zinc talon
it is not only about a nuclear war
mighty tusk
sorry i didnt look down
fierce arch
This is disgusting to me because people from Ukraine and Russia are all over the...
yes, but at the end of the day, nato getting involved is just
mighty tusk
NATO getting involved is not good
fierce arch
it would do so much more harm than good
cerulean canyon
It's disgusting to be like
Yeah no we won't protect your country because we don't have a formal treaty
Fuck your family who lives here
hushed magnet
Why does us getting involved guarantee the destruction of the world
whether or not its "global destruction " a NATO/russia war would not be good for anyone
fierce arch
if they protected ukraine
split aurora
This is disgusting to me because people from Ukraine and Russia are all over the...
If we intervene, there will be no more people. no more russia. no more ukraine. no world. we must not risk THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE AND 7.7BILLION PEOPLE taking risky military actions
fierce arch
a war would almost certainly break out between nato and russia
leaden grove
It's disgusting to be like
Yeah no we won't protect your country because we don'...
Exactly! We care more about artificial borders than people
zinc talon
**If we intervene, there will be no more people. no more russia. no more ukraine...
dude pls
cerulean canyon
Exactly! We care more about artificial borders than people
Exactly. It infuriates me
mighty tusk
its not about not wanting to help them
hushed magnet
Exactly! We care more about artificial borders than people
i mean yeah, but thats kinda what causes war in the first place
fierce arch
nato is trying to help russia but if nato deploys a single soldier
mighty tusk
what would happen after
split aurora
The amount of people fucking willing to risk the entirety of humanity on a bold risky decision
hushed magnet
nato is trying to help russia but if nato deploys a single soldier
ukraine*?
split aurora
they treat nuclear warfare like a game
fierce arch
ukraine
leaden grove
It’s not game
fierce arch
sorry
grizzled steeple
Look, there's no use trying to predict the future. All we're doing is causing unnecessary stress to ourselves
fierce arch
nato gets involved > russia forces fight nato > nato and russia go to war > both sides suffer heavy losses of lives
split aurora
nato getting directly involved in ukraine would be one of the most inhumane, and most civilian death causing acts in the entirety of human history
mighty tusk
"I prefer this" > "to this" lol
cerulean canyon
I just think we can help in ways that won't lead to nuclear war???
fierce arch
well yes
split aurora
and should
fierce arch
and nato is doing that
split aurora
but anyway that involves nato troops or planes in ukraine must be avoided at any and all costs
cerulean canyon
nato getting directly involved in ukraine would be one of the most inhumane, and...
And what's happening in Ukraine right now isn't inhumane???
Like
fierce arch
And what's happening in Ukraine right now isn't inhumane???
bloodshed need not more bloodshed
hushed magnet
I just think we can help in ways that won't lead to nuclear war???
yeah but the whole point of the argument is that enforcing a no fly zone isnt that
split aurora
And what's happening in Ukraine right now isn't inhumane???
It is inhumane, not as inhumane as purposefully risking a nuclear war that could kill billions of people
hushed magnet
no one here is saying "dont help ukraine"
split aurora
and turning every city on the planet to this
mighty tusk
look
cerulean canyon
yeah but the whole point of the argument is that enforcing a no fly zone isnt th...
I have moved past the no fly zone thing, I am talking about in general
cerulean canyon
Charlotte.
split aurora
We must help ukraine as much as possible, without direct military intervention
hushed magnet
I have moved past the no fly zone thing, I am talking about in general
thats what this conversation is about tho???
zinc talon
and turning every city on the planet to this
could you pls stop with the exaggeration
hushed magnet
^ good idea tbh
fierce arch
thats what this conversation is about tho???
yeah
split aurora
I am not exaggerating, its my firm belief a war with russia would turn nuclear
cerulean canyon
thats what this conversation is about tho???
I started asking about why in general nato's involvement would lead to world war. I did not specify the no fly zone. That was clarified earlier.
fierce arch
could you pls stop with the exaggeration
also this
split aurora
and the only way to win a nuclear war is not to play
grizzled steeple
There's very little chance Putin wants to destroy the world he wants to conquer for one country.
leaden grove
^^
cerulean canyon
Agreed
stark inlet
There's very little chance Putin wants to destroy the world he wants to conquer ...
also moldova, maybe finland
mighty tusk
Not the world, but disagreed he'd not want to use nukes
yall
if he loses this war
he is out of the presidency.
this is his DESPERACY play
copper monolith
fierce arch
not exactly
cerulean canyon
He's going to be out anyway I feel like
hushed magnet
I started asking about why in general nato's involvement would lead to world war...
but theres a difference between direct involvement like a no fly zone, and indirect involvement like supplying arms
hushed magnet
ok but its not like putin has a button all to himself he can press whenever he wants, iirc it requires all the military commanders to agree no?
cerulean canyon
Russian people have turned against him, and are asking him to stop
I think that STOPPING this would increase his likelihood of presidency but
copper monolith
more news agencies
- Bloomberg
mighty tusk
there is no telling he will not nuke something out of spite or just venerally bomv
hushed magnet
like, nuclear war or not is kinda irrelevant imo
cerulean canyon
Agreed
copper monolith
fuck all western media will be leaving at this point
hushed magnet
escalating the war to a war between NATO and russia would be catastrophic nukes or not
and it should be avoided
leaden grove
ok but its not like putin has a button all to himself he can press whenever he w...
Yes, it involves both another minister, a commander and the launch officers
copper monolith
fierce arch
russia invaded ukraine because ukraine was going to the west and escaping the fascist grips of putin
grizzled steeple
We need to stop with the hypotheticals. Get back to the present.
split aurora
!!! https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107?s=20&t=QKT8tj...
yeah the ukranian air force is still kicking ass
fierce arch
if he loses this war
also which war
hushed magnet
!!! https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107?s=20&t=QKT8tj...
lets gooo
fierce arch
hypothetical nato war or ukraine war
zinc talon
Twitter
cerulean canyon
I just want all of this to get sorted, and I know that's naive but.
Here we are seeing Ukrainian AND Russian businesses being destroyed and people being harassed and beat up
It's disgusting
(here being Arizona)
hushed magnet
i mean, everyone wants to get it sorted
cerulean canyon
Yee of course
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1499859878218809351?s=20&t=w74A0XK3etIZ...
🙏
hushed magnet
no one disagrees with that, and if they do then get the fuck outta here
fierce arch
nobody wants this to go on
but like
there reaches a point where you can only intervene so much
before you risk retaliation by russia
cerulean canyon
!!! https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107?s=20&t=QKT8tj...
This is good news!
copper monolith
Has the foreign weapons aid arrived in Ukraine? Surely by now they have right?
and yes I'm on r/ukraine rn lol
split aurora
stark inlet
leaden grove
I just want all of this to get sorted, and I know that's naive but.
Here we are ...
That’s evil
split aurora
https://twitter.com/DefenceGeek/status/1499491489814089729?s=20&t=do6xVT304MJ1kA...
hahahahaha
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/DefenceGeek/status/1499491489814089729?s=20&t=do6xVT304MJ1kA...
hushed magnet
https://twitter.com/DefenceGeek/status/1499491489814089729?s=20&t=do6xVT304MJ1kA...
LMAO
cerulean canyon
That’s evil
Yes it is
solid adder
lOL
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1499878453100924928
leaden grove
Yes it is
The police here also said that they’re going to take extra steps to protect Ukrainian and Russian communities
fierce arch
someone changed the wikipedia page on human rights to denounce putin
cerulean canyon
The police here also said that they’re going to take extra steps to protect Ukra...
Yee that's what our mayor is trying to do as well
zinc talon
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/DefenceGeek/status/1499491489814089729?s=20&t=do6xVT304MJ1kA...
actually, had just finally read this 🧵 about the paratroopers, and yeah, their reputation is highly inflated (was posted before in this thread) https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1499377671855292423
stark inlet
yup
cerulean canyon
And again of course this is a whole propaganda thing where people are assuming that one side or the other is evil because of where they are from.
And that upsets me so much, one of my friends was telling me his Russian classmate is taking online classes because she doesn't feel safe in a classroom here anymore.
I'm like. Jesus Christ
leaden grove
And again of course this is a whole propaganda thing where people are assuming t...
That’s just not okay
copper monolith
actually, had just finally read this 🧵 about the paratroopers, and yeah, their ...
not to mention I saw a video of the aftermath of one unit dropping into a town... or at least, their charred corpse. that shit will be with me for a long time
copper monolith
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499837776656678915
ye I did
hushed magnet
And again of course this is a whole propaganda thing where people are assuming t...
its fucking shit, but i feel like it was kinda inevitable however this played out with how society is
cerulean canyon
That’s just not okay
Yeahhhh. I'm sure it will get sorted eventually but it just. It makes me cry so much, ya know?
grizzled steeple
Hey who predicted spring mud slowing down Russian armor? Cause you're right
leaden grove
:/
hushed magnet
i mean look at whats happened since the start of the covid pandemic
cerulean canyon
its fucking shit, but i feel like it was kinda inevitable however this played ou...
No. I don't think this is inevitable.
And also this will probably go on for YEARS past this.
Look at 9/11, people from the middle east are still considered terrorists by some people to this day.
(I only brought up 9/11 for the comparison of the treatment of people, that's all)
leaden grove
People just love easy targets
cerulean canyon
Yup
hushed magnet
but i mean, i feel like with how prejudiced society is, its was always gonna kinda just a really shitty byproduct of this war
cerulean canyon
Well and people don't do research either right
People see propaganda, a shitty news article and it's like
leaden grove
Well and people don't do research either right
They don’t, because people spend a lot of time reading the news without actually bothering to read a full article
It’s just headlines most people care about now
cerulean canyon
They base their actions off of that without making informed decisions
cerulean canyon
It’s just headlines most people care about now
Exactly
split aurora
https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1499878609149906946
fires shot
ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
leaden grove
Exactly
And also a lot of TV stations do a poor job when it comes to this too
I‘m generally not too fond of 24/7 news stations, but especially the American-style ones
silk iron
what was this about Russophobia?
split aurora
ye
silk iron
and apparently Ukrainian-phobia?
cerulean canyon
Absolutely!
And while I know that it is physically impossible to remove bias all together, you see newspaper articles that have different headlines depending on the neighbourhood they are in.
It's so upsetting
cerulean canyon
and apparently Ukrainian-phobia?
Yes
silk iron
are people struggling to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians?
cerulean canyon
I was talking about businesses and people here being targeted and harassed
leaden grove
are people struggling to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians?
That too
You know most people can’t tell Slavic languages apart
silk iron
so i presume no one is intentionally targeting Ukrainians
split aurora
eastern europeans already faced a lot of hate in western europe before this started
its only got a lot worse
cerulean canyon
are people struggling to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians?
Possibly but I think it's more a thing of choosing sides based on the content they consume
cerulean canyon
so i presume no one is intentionally targeting Ukrainians
Disagree
leaden grove
I‘ve heard of people getting harassed for speaking Polish because some dumbass thought they were speaking Russian (which still wouldn’t make it okay)
hushed magnet
eastern europeans already faced a lot of hate in western europe *before* this st...
yup, i mean have you seen the UK???
cerulean canyon
Considering we had a local CLEARLY Ukrainian business, vandalized
mighty tusk
https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1499878609149906946
*fires shot*
*ruuu...
this music fucking SLAPS
what is it
split aurora
Theres also a significant amount of pro-russian support in the west
silk iron
this is the US we're talking about
cerulean canyon
Theres also a significant amount of pro-russian support in the west
Exactly
hushed magnet
Theres also a significant amount of pro-russian support in the west
yup
hushed magnet
and republicans
split aurora
and republicans
they class as fascists
split aurora
what is it
dunno sorry
leaden grove
I’d once again like to bring this up
silk iron
I don't see much overt support for Russia in the UK
split aurora
yup, i mean have you seen the UK???
born and raised in north england 😢
i dont get why people are treating kasparov as a geopolitical genius
good at chess and good at geopolitics are different
the man is of course entitled to his opinion but people are treating him like he's someone he isn't
I have enormous respect for the man, but chess is not geopolitics
silk iron
In theory if you're good at chess you're good at predicting the future strategies and plans of your opponent
leaden grove
He‘s not a genius, but he‘s making a very good point in my opinion
split aurora
In theory if you're good at chess you're good at predicting the future strategie...
ehh
thats one hell of a stretch
silk iron
i don't see how it translates to the current situation in the Russo-Ukrainian war
there is no real predictions which can be made
hushed magnet
I’d once again like to bring this up
i mean as much as i see his last point, the entirety of geopolitics is built on borders and treaties
split aurora
He‘s not a genius, but he‘s making a very good point in my opinion
I heavily disagree with him, but I respect his positions, they are well worded and thought out
leaden grove
there is no real predictions which can be made
cough cough Dugin
cerulean canyon
There's a reason why people say that war is like a game of chess though because as mato said, chess involves a lot of strategy, knowing when to make sacrifices and when not too, so on and so forth.
split aurora
There's a reason why people say that war is like a game of chess though because ...
its such a weak link
split aurora
its like saying "being an electrician is like being a politician, its all about knowing links and making connections"
cerulean canyon
?????.
hushed magnet
i mean as much as i see his last point, the entirety of geopolitics is built on ...
like yeah ofc lives matter way more than a piece of paper, but when that treaty could end up bringing millions of more lives into a war, then its kinda a moot point IMO
zinc talon
There's a reason why people say that war is like a game of chess though because ...
in strategy, yes. But you need to understand both
cerulean canyon
I feel like you missed the point of my message
split aurora
Being good at strategy in ONE SPECIFIC GAME doesn't make you good at strategy for EVERYTHING
cerulean canyon
in strategy, yes. But you need to understand both
Absolutely, yee I guess I mean in terms of strategy that's why war is compared to chess
split aurora
Lewis Hamilton is a genius at strategy, in formula one, is he a geopolitical genius?
hushed magnet
knowing how to move chess pieces =/= understanding global politics lmao
split aurora
No, he's just good at racing cars
leaden grove
like yeah ofc lives matter way more than a piece of paper, but when that treaty ...
I trust Putin to put millions more of lives in danger if he‘s not stopped now
cerulean canyon
Sigh. I think my point was misunderstood, but that's alright
I was just saying why I think the metaphor is used
split aurora
ah
cerulean canyon
You don't have to agree with me, that's fine.
split aurora
I understand why its used yeah
cerulean canyon
Yeah.
split aurora
sorry i thought you were agreeing with it
mighty tusk
ok so
silk iron
the metaphorical idea is you're capable of breaking war and politics down into a cold rational logical game, like chess. In which you don't care about the lives of your pieces, you only care about the life of your king and checkmating the opposition king.
zinc talon
the metaphorical idea is you're capable of breaking war and politics down into a...
which isn't how modern warfare works tbh
mighty tusk
send more
cerulean canyon
sorry i thought you were agreeing with it
There's a reason the two are compared, unfortunately I can't think of a better metaphor besides chess
mighty tusk
please
split aurora
in other news
hushed magnet
I trust Putin to put millions more of lives in danger if he‘s not stopped now
fair, im just saying that completely disregarding treaties and agreements is kinda a bad idea imo
cerulean canyon
Yee no worries, Charlotte
split aurora
in other news
uk and us caught slacking
cerulean canyon
the metaphorical idea is you're capable of breaking war and politics down into a...
This
leaden grove
fair, im just saying that completely disregarding treaties and agreements is kin...
It is, there is no treaty that prohibits anyone from helping Ukraine though
split aurora
the metaphorical idea is you're capable of breaking war and politics down into a...
thing is.... you dont want to do warfare like that
thinking in cold hard logic means that civilian targets are justified
if it allows a greater win
silk iron
it's a very Machiavellian outlook.
split aurora
reminds me of Malthus' theories on the poor
cerulean canyon
it's a very Machiavellian outlook.
Yee yee
split aurora
but ye i get the idea
silk iron
and well what we're witnessing is Putin's forces shelling cities like Kharkiv indiscriminately to break civilian resistance.
cerulean canyon
Unfortunately though it does seem that Putin is treating his soilders and such as pawns and pieces in a game.
split aurora
Unfortunately though it does seem that Putin is treating his soilders and such a...
and also civilian populations
cerulean canyon
Yup
split aurora
putins approach now seems to have turned to levelling entire cities
silk iron
So clearly Putin is at best indifferent towards the plight of the people he's invading even in respect to achieving his goals.
split aurora
with the most deadly weapon of them all, artillery
12hours of artillery fire will turn a town into history
cerulean canyon
putins approach now seems to have turned to levelling entire cities
"If I can't capture the king by strategy I'll just flip the table."
split aurora
lmao
leaden grove
Also I‘d like to mention one point about international law here, which shows its limits, and that is that partisan warfare is in a very weird zone legally
Namely because they don’t enjoy the same rights are soldiers
Which means that they can be punished for their actions
It’s very weird
cerulean canyon
That is quite weird
leaden grove
The thing is that international law doesn’t provide for armed resistance
If you follow international law to the letter, you have soldiers who fight and civilians who do nothing violent at all
silk iron
insurgents and spies are treated in the same vein as terrorists and aren't afforded such protections
leaden grove
yep, but so are partisans
They’re all considered "irregular forces" and hence don’t enjoy any legal protection beyond regular human rights
Aka all the POW rules don‘t apply
split aurora
tbf not like russias following the soldiers rights anyway :v
leaden grove
Yep, but that’s why they won’t be able to be charged for most things they do with civilian armed resistance
leaden grove
True
silk iron
it means those people committing the atrocities will never be allowed into the West.
silk iron
but remember many war criminals in the Balkans war were eventually tried as well
split aurora
but remember many war criminals in the Balkans war were eventually tried as well
though that required changes in government
as it will in russia
silk iron
you never know when Russia's regime will collapse
leaden grove
All of this required changes in government
silk iron
afterall Putin is 69yrs old
leaden grove
Because Putin won’t budge that easily
split aurora
god i do really hope theres a citizens uprising in russia
silk iron
so if there isn't a peaceful transition in 20 yrs time when Putin is 89yrs old - and that's uncommon with dictatorships
leaden grove
The coming weeks will show us
silk iron
these people might show up when we're in our 40s in the Hague
leaden grove
Putin won’t resign peacefully
silk iron
but who knows... this is pure speculation
leaden grove
And also note that Putin has given himself and others full amnesty in Russia
Which a future government would have to reverse first
silk iron
it gets rather messy from a constitutional standpoint revoking amnesties and pardons.
leaden grove
Yeah
silk iron
Either way back to the point - insurgents are liable to suffer many more human rights violations than regulars.
so if you think the atrocities are bad so far
im afraid to say you aint seen nothing yet.
leaden grove
^^
silk iron
i myself am going to withdraw from keeping track of it
split aurora
Sadly I think if there is to be a change in russian government in the near future.... it will be kremlin/oligarchs deposing putin to place a new dictator on the throne
silk iron
for my own sanity
leaden grove
Yeah, it‘s important to take care of yourself too
split aurora
who won't do any of these bold invasions and will just sit back, let company's get rich, and ignore shit
silk iron
corruption and greed is a much lesser evil to warmongering and sadism
scarlet crown
https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/661 I'm not sure exactly when this was recorded during the day, but here's the subbed version
silk iron
it's a shame Yeltsin let Putin take the reins
leaden grove
And yet kleptocracy is a major threat to the world no matter where it comes from
silk iron
i should read up on the power transition come to think of it
leaden grove
it's a shame Yeltsin let Putin take the reins
Yeltsin committed quite a few atrocities too
Like
silk iron
that was 2000
silk iron
see this is why i need to read up on it
zinc talon
german wiki article about putin having the best placement of pictures (saw it on twitter and had to check)
leaden grove
see this is why i need to read up on it
So basically
scarlet crown
rightfully so
leaden grove
Among other things, Yeltsin enacted a set of economic reforms that caused great damage to the economy at large
And eventually parliament stopped supporting him and tried to impeach Yeltsin
silk iron
well with sanctions to mastercard/visa, microchips that threat has some teeth to it.
leaden grove
And Yeltsin then dried to dissolve parliament, but they refused and barricaded themselves in the the parliament building after he threatened to use forces
And the entire thing ended with Yeltsin ordering the army to attack the parliament building
silk iron
yh i remember now
leaden grove
IIRC more than 120 people died
silk iron
wasn't swan lake being played on the Russian news instead of the events unfolding?
nocturne osprey
https://t.me/verkhovnaradaofukraine/661 I'm not sure exactly when this was recor...
leaden grove
wasn't swan lake being played on the Russian news instead of the events unfoldin...
Yes, but that was during the august coup in 1991
stark inlet
Twitter
scarlet crown
https://youtu.be/qmHRviYJKNw
doing gods work, my highest gratitude
silk iron
that was the USSR coup
silk iron
honestly hard to keep up with the number of coups with the Soviet and post-soviet bloc
leaden grove
I can only really tell you about Russia, Estonia and Latvia
silk iron
you don't learn about this stuff in the UK, only the early and mid cold war years.
leaden grove
I’d also like to add that Yeltsin more or less helped create the oligarchs we know today
nocturne osprey
you don't learn about this stuff in the UK, only the early and mid cold war year...
isn't the cold war A level history only
clear pebble
Same here, American school pretty much stopped after Vietnam war
leaden grove
you don't learn about this stuff in the UK, only the early and mid cold war year...
Neither do we learn about it here, but we barely got through the curriculum anyways
silk iron
when i did A level history it was Weimar republic, and pre-war nazi Germany, Churchill, US 50s-80s black rights, feminism and native movements.
and post WW2 east Germany and west Germany
Konrad Adenauer got a lot of time dedicated to him in particular
leaden grove
Treaty of Versailles, Weimar Republic, interwar period, the eastern front of WW2, west and east Germany for my history course
leaden grove
Konrad Adenauer got a lot of time dedicated to him in particular
We didn’t really talk about him that much
We mainly focused on denazification, the founding of the FGR and GDR and also the political system of the GDR as well as the Cold War
silk iron
very influential guy, he basically laid the foundation of how powerful Chancellors would be in Germany into the future.
leaden grove
I know him
We talked a lot about the constitution in like 9th grade
Which is arguably very well-written
Save for the conflicts that arise between the federal government and the Länder
silk iron
beats being having an unwritten constitution
leaden grove
Yeah
silk iron
that is having random documents lying around like the magna carta, bill of rights...
leaden grove
uhuh
leaden grove
I think there’s a ton of documents + court rulings
silk iron
they might as well all be grouped together with a flimsy paper clip
leaden grove
Yep
silk iron
i guess it's nice not having people question if something is constitutional or not in every comment thread like they do in America but hey-ho.
About the best reason there is lmao
leaden grove
Tbh the American constitution is very weird imo
silk iron
they made a good chunk of it up on the fly.
leaden grove
Especially the voting system
leaden grove
It encourages a two-party system and there’s no real way to change it
silk iron
anyway we're well off topic here
leaden grove
Shhh
cerulean canyon
It encourages a two-party system and there’s no real way to change it
You're telling me
silk iron
shh i aint tellin no one
cerulean canyon
A constitution needs to be updated as society grows
silk iron
this tangent will just be between the two of us
cerulean canyon
This constitution is 200 plus years old
silk iron
sage is oblivious you see
cerulean canyon
Fix it
leaden grove
You're telling me
All I can say is that if people write a constitution now it‘ll probably be worse
cerulean canyon
cerulean canyon
All I can say is that if people write a constitution now it‘ll probably be worse
Ugh god
Unfortunately you might be right
cerulean canyon
I don’t think it’s fixable with amendments ._.
I think there are amendments in the constitution that are like
Please forget this previous amendment and use this instead lmao
silk iron
well better an old constitution without partisanary than a new constitution with...
leaden grove
I think there are amendments in the constitution that are like
Please forget thi...
Yeah
The thing is that most Americans seem to support switching to a popular vote system
But the parties are against it
silk iron
it's kind of like relying on asterisking points everywhere tho.
leaden grove
Because it would make them lose their seats
silk iron
the nature of the first past the post system
the two main parties are united in at least one thing at all times
cerulean canyon
The electoral college needs to be thrown out
leaden grove
Yeah, but even the way members of congress are elected is really weird
You‘ll never get beyond two or three parties with that
cerulean canyon
Yuppppppp
Honestly I'd be satisfied with having a third party but I doubt that'll happen 
leaden grove
Because right now you could split the republican and democratic parties into at least two separate ones each
cerulean canyon
EXACTLY
leaden grove
People in them just have such different viewpoints
cerulean canyon
Well and so when you sign up to vote, there are more then two parties you can choose from
Democrat
Republican
Libertarian
Independent
leaden grove
Yeah, but do they ever win seats beyond county councils?
leaden grove
As far as I’m aware not even most city councils have more than two parties in them because they just use the same system
cerulean canyon
Hm
No there are some independent Congress people I think, maybe?? But it's extremely rare
cerulean canyon
Some voting procotols are different though depending on the state you live in
leaden grove
The fact that individual senators can stall entire bills?
cerulean canyon
Arizona for instance, we have closed primary elections
Meaning that you have to be registered for the specific party that you are voting for, otherwise the vote doesn't count
So if you are voting Democrat, your card has to show that, same with Republican