1┃mirage-league

[slender temple]

i know because i played RF jugg in heist haha

well they said we will do 20-40% less dps right

gotta wait for tuesday to see defense nerfs

they kind of hinted they did something to the movement skills flame dash and smoke mine

[floral wharf]

What do u guys think about the league mechanic

[lilac saffron]

decent

[slender temple]

i dont think about it. not till friday 😄

gotta see it

[indigo wolf]

I haven't looked at the league mechanic at all

[slender temple]

their teaser is always liek 1/10 of what we gonna see in game

cuz they want surprise which i like

[indigo wolf]

Oh yes, I am sure I am also going to hate the flame dash nerfs.

[floral wharf]

Watch the reveal livestream, it was a few days ago

[indigo wolf]

I don't want to watch a livestream for info

That's why I haven't looked at it

[floral wharf]

Ok

[floral cobalt]

No new info today either ?

[floral wharf]

It’s like harvest kinda, you setup a chain of explosives at excavation sites

And monsters come out

[proper widget]

the league mechanic could be decent if you can just click the left button on all the dialogues

blowing stuff up and going to weird zones is not that much overhead so i dont mind

i think GGG is really just exploring and trying to find the right combo of obnoxious dialogues + puzzle mechanics

[peak geode]

patch notes aren't out yet, are they?

[slender temple]

exactly

its too early to get all revvved up

im not loading pob until tuesday

[peak geode]

ohh, I see

[slender temple]

monday they give us the tip and tuedsay the rest of it

as usual

[proper widget]

seems more streamlined than betrayal and heist, while still having more intricacy than ritual or ultimatum

[maiden coral]

Mmmm depending on how tedious placing can be, and how long explosions are
Heist might be smoother

[verbal hedge]

guys, what's this?

July 16 - 👀
July 17 - 👀

[maiden coral]

Just Royale, no news

[lilac saffron]

what was supposed to happen today?

[rose pasture]

Yes

[maiden coral]

[whole pebble]

Yeah btw I dont like braindead leagues

Usually those types of leagues lack story content

Heist and betrayal were awesome even though they were complicated

[foggy zinc]

betrayal wasn't very complicated, pretty straightforward

[indigo wolf]

Betrayal is RNG which makes it look complicated

[maiden coral]

Moving the people around takes a bit to learn compared to "stand in area and kill"

[proper widget]

it took me a few leagues to get into betrayal, havent played much heist still

the nice thing with betrayal is that pressing the right dialogue option will give you progress 90% of the time

[foggy zinc]

betrayal is pretty much incursion difficulty, only the rewards aren't as well presented

[indigo wolf]

Eh, incursion has RNG too but fewer layers/options, so it is a quicker cycle and easier to understand.

[foggy zinc]

for sure, you get to the boss each incursion while the process is more complicated in betrayal

I'm fine with having simpler leagues tho, cause otherwise you really need to dig deep to get the leagues best rewards

[proper widget]

the new vendors is a really good angle, i like what they've been developing these last few leagues

[foggy zinc]

they can't move too far away from "kill mobs -> get loot", so it's great seeing they can still find something new to implement

that upgrade vendor might be Pog

[maiden lotus]

Is Forbidden Rite a better dark pact totem?

[maiden coral]

Upgrade vendor be the new harvest

Synth, Betrayal, and (og) Harvest are the most complex imo

[maiden coral]

why on earth are two of the vendor currencies 2x2 while the other two are 1x1
a bit odd

[rose pasture]

Seems like my fears were right.
We now going to have 20 acts.
At least on time spent finishing campaign.

[alpine sierra]

?

[foggy zinc]

doubt it'll make that much difference if you know what you're doing, my only fear is for newer players

[alpine sierra]

If they're new they won't know any better

As long as the minute by minute gameplay is compelling they won't care

[foggy zinc]

probably ye

[alpine sierra]

At some point though you get wow leveling and fuck that

[foggy zinc]

those types of changes ggg usually gets right, the skill/support gem ones tho, those are scary

[stoic hemlock]

Really wish there was some alternate way to level besides the campaign if you’ve already gone through it a few times. A bit nervous about them making it harder since I already just throw corpses at the beginning couple bosses. Dunno why I’m nervous considering there is no penalty for dying in the beginning acts.

[maiden coral]

Hm speculations for 3.15 challenge rewards tomorrow
*Helm Attachments or Helmets- Some bosses have pointy helmets like Deli God
*Portal - Logbooks have portals
*Footprints - we leave behind expedition skulls/banners/markers, if they lower the height
*Character/Weapon effect - the spectral bluey glows
*Back Attach - Dannig's cloak

Meme idea- Detonator Map Device

[floral cobalt]

tried the battle royal mode lol

all it is, is people spamming whirling blades blight or ea D:

lol

[proper widget]

presumably balanced next week

[floral cobalt]

Action speed is generally too slow to hit people with melee as well.

I can run around and through people with strike skills LOL

Neat mode though for sure.

[maiden coral]

You also cant predict aim with bow basic attacks

[quaint saddle]

i see the devs are running out of things to nerf so they are now targeting flasks

[violet nymph]

flasks have had it coming for years

[quaint saddle]

tiem to uninstall and stuff

[violet nymph]

when flasks can be a 60% or higher damage boost, they are too strong.

[quaint saddle]

i see it hasn't gone down well with all them dislikes lol

[violet nymph]

I mean, people hate the idea of change more than change itself

people had the same kind of reaction to them making bosses harder in acts in metamorph and people got over it by the next league start.

[quaint saddle]

it's just unfortunate that devs use data from Streamers to base their nerfs/buffs and us not so experienced players absorb the damage lol

still i am interested in seeing what the expedition gameplay will be like

i skipped ultimatum

[violet nymph]

I mean, you seem to misunderstand their goal at the end of the day is.
This is pushing back power creep, they are planning to pull back even more for poe2.

[proper widget]

is flask piano something inexperienced players look forward to

i seen enough ppl ask about flaskless builds to know its not a good setup for more casual ppl

[violet nymph]

Remember, PoE2 has been pushed as a lot harder than current poe is and is quite a bit slower.

[ocean narwhal]

It's less that it being a slower game is a bad thing

[quaint saddle]

they are gonna lose the more casual players but that's their choice

[ocean narwhal]

and more that the game being slower, with the endgame it has, is a bad thing

[proper widget]

can u pin a % of the playerbase as casual

because i can tell u it affects their bottom line, not at all

[quaint saddle]

yeah 69 😛

[proper widget]

casual players will find anything to quit over

[bronze cave]

Personally i like that a game doesnt balance around the "casuals". That is what made many other games feel unrewarding to me

[violet nymph]

They very much so do balance around casuals. it's just a lot harder to see than you'd think.

[ocean narwhal]

I mean how slow do you want the game to be? When should a mid tier player such as myself reach a1 sirius?

A month in?

[proper widget]

15-20 hours?

[quaint saddle]

the problem with the game really is repetition

[bronze cave]

What is mid-tier for you?

[violet nymph]

15-20 hours after reaching maps? or 15-20 hours after starting acts?

[proper widget]

8 hours to maps + 8 hours of mapping should easily hit a1 sirius

if u spend another 8 hours afking and shopping for items it might take u longer

[bronze cave]

8 hours to maps is way above mid tier i would say

but it's kind of a semantics issue with how you define that

[proper widget]

i mean i regularly get to maps in 8-12 hours

[indigo wolf]

I can /maybe/ do acts in 8 hours, depends how much I AFK or toy with gems, but I don't think I get to Sirus in 8 hours after starting maps

[proper widget]

and the baseline for 'fast' is 5 hours

thats just removing all AFKing

[violet nymph]

it took me 15 hours to get to sirus a1

[ocean narwhal]

Mid tier is "Knows how to play the game, knows how builds work, gets around mid to high yellow tier, Makes only one or two builds per league" for me

[indigo wolf]

Drop "knows how builds work" from that imo

[violet nymph]

tbf, i may or may not have been doing tons of trading at the time

[indigo wolf]

"knowing how builds work" and "getting to mid to high yellow tier" is exclusive

I only follow guides but I get to A8 without knowing how builds work

[bronze cave]

I have friends that play since 2.0, know how the game works, have beaten every boss and still take like 15 hours to maps sometimes because they like to do league content early and just dont mind going slower

[proper widget]

imo getting to yellow maps is what the 'average' player is, and i think u should be able to do that in 20 hours

[ocean narwhal]

the build works beyond yellow tier, but I burn out far before then.

[quaint saddle]

doesn't matter the game is going to go down Doedres cesspit with all these negative changes

[proper widget]

nerfs are good for the game

[quaint saddle]

i wanted one thing and i couldnt even get that

a bacon dispenser for the hideout

[proper widget]

from royale? i think its on the weekends after launch

[indigo wolf]

I agree the top end needs to be slowed or nerfed. The problem is that in order to do anything appreciable to the top end, anything you change is going to put the bulk of players on their knees.

[violet nymph]

These nerfs are legit good for the game. and don't be surprised if you see even more nerfs in the future when gems 2.0 come out.

[proper widget]

gamers cant cope with the idea that power = responsibility and granting power is inherently toxic

[violet nymph]

gems 2.0 will come with nerfs

[bronze cave]

I'm looking forward to conquerors to go though, watchstone progression system is the one thing that feels tiresome to me

[ocean narwhal]

But my point is, if I'm not super optimizing both my build/gear and map progression. When should I be able to fight the endgame content?

[barren crescent]

I'd love to see the 6L "meta" to shift into 2 half utility supports

[bronze cave]

Its good if you need to optimize to do endgame content imo

Obviously not perfect items each slot

But also not A8 Sirus on a 5 link with no gear

[proper widget]

farming red maps is probably 30-40 hours at a more casual pace?

t16 sustain

is still kinda tough tho

[violet nymph]

i'd say 25 to start red map farming.

[proper widget]

if ur farming red maps then its just a question of how lucky u get b4 u have a few ex

a decent build with 5 ex can start strangling bosses

[indigo wolf]

Assuming you want to go through the hassle of stalking trade and trading

[proper widget]

can also just play slams

[indigo wolf]

I find that extremely tedious myself, although I don't play SSF because I also don't understand the game enough to self craft gear

[violet nymph]

I'm the fuck selling marked up gear i crafted for like 30c at 2ex a pop :^)

I had a belt i'd craft 3 times a day and sell at 2ex a pop and they sold every time

[barren crescent]

I don't think average player hits reds in that 24h mark, unless I'm severily underestimating average mapper nowadays

I hit reds in that 24h played and I don't consider myself avg

[bronze cave]

no way average players hit that

[proper widget]

i dont really bother trading until im ready to throw money and overpay tbh

[ocean narwhal]

How fast does one complete a map in your head in the question

[barren crescent]

40h perhaps?

3-5mins

[bronze cave]

map completion speed is really hard to gauge now with all these mechanics in there

[proper widget]

5-7 mins depending on how much extra garbage is in the map in my experience

[indigo wolf]

I probably hit red maps in 25 years of mapping (which is after 8 hours of acts). I never paid attention to how many game sessions it takes to reach red maps.

[proper widget]

i like to clear everything with a loose filter though

[violet nymph]

i don't bother doing it for myself until that point. but for money making 100% interact with it as soon as i have some loose cash to buy my bases

[barren crescent]

yeah game session or days is irrelevant

its all about your actual played time

[proper widget]

first step to getting faster is running a very strict filter and go cut out downtime

like soemtimes i'll take 15 minutes doing a map, and feel very burnt out lol

better to just ignore all these stupid items, pick up 2c in a map, and go next

[indigo wolf]

I'm also kind of slow at mapping myself, probably. If I don't have a map that can progress me toward a conqueror, I'll go back and get completion on the maps I do have. Which is a bad strategy in you're trying to rush to red.

[barren crescent]

its such build depended

some builds can zoom 3min maps from 3rd lab onwards

some just can't

[ocean narwhal]

How many maps does one run before one reaches mid endgame?

[proper widget]

i think for most ppl its less the build and more the downtime

[barren crescent]

yeah

[ocean narwhal]

like a1 sirius

[proper widget]

if u get to ur hideout and ur thinking about buying items, maybe go look for next map to run, ur already putting an extra 1-2 minutes on every map

[barren crescent]

probably 80h played for most ppl

experienced prolly hit that in sub 40h

[proper widget]

man is a1 really that hard?

[barren crescent]

just spawning sirus I assume

[proper widget]

i havent played in a few leagues

[ocean narwhal]

No I mean just spawning sirus

[barren crescent]

fastest ppl spawn sirus in 12h from start

[ocean narwhal]

Like as a factor of number of maps

[proper widget]

100?

[barren crescent]

in minimum it takes, 20*3 maps

[violet nymph]

that's entirely dependent on how one maps @ocean narwhal
cuz you can turbo it and be done day 1/2.
or you can focus on profit for a bit to make it actually run-able for you for most players.

[proper widget]

like u need around 100 completion to start doing reds reasonably

[barren crescent]

3 maps for each conq, you need to get 20 stones

[proper widget]

how many dupes u get is RNG so maybe +50-100

[barren crescent]

• few travel maps at start ~10-20

so say 100 maps in total ran to get Sirus

[ocean narwhal]

Then I guess I've just been super inefficient in picking which maps to run

[proper widget]

it sounds like a lot but its much faster if u have 10 maps in ur stash pre-rolled, and a tight filter

doing 10 maps a day is normal for me and i feel like i get thru quick enough

[violet nymph]

I do a solid 30 in a day.

but that's tight filter

[barren crescent]

Yeah there is some rng involved to get a perfect sirus spawn where you don't run any dead maps

[violet nymph]

and also when i'm on a build like old CoC ice-nova. ;~; RIP my boy

now i need 30ex instead of 5 to run it

[proper widget]

@ocean narwhalhow many leagues have u played

atlas is pretty nuanced u probably need a fresh start a few times before u understand how to utilize all the mechanics

dunno if anybody is super into the watchstone system either, could use another revamp

[barren crescent]

I like the watchstones, but it does get bit too repetitive

it allows you to have such a freedom of what you want to farm past half way point towards A8

unlike old Elder 1 map and remove eveyr other T14+ map from your atlas

Not saying its perfect, but I really like this aspect of current atlas

[proper widget]

yar its def better than before in terms of flexibility and fixing ur mistakes

but i think a lot of ppl have trouble progressing it in a deterministic way

[barren crescent]

Downside is that it is harder to learn at start

[proper widget]

ofc figuring out atlas is part of the fun, but it could be funner

[barren crescent]

It really ain't that hard once you've learned 3 "rules" of the atlas:

1. Map you want to drop needs to be visible on your atlas
2. Map you are currently running needs to be wihin 1 (2) tiers of the map you want to drop.
3. The map you are currently running also wants to exist in the atlas.

Now you just place the watchstones by what the conq spawns demand, while fullfilling above 3

[ocean narwhal]

I've played most leagues actually

sometimes I burn out before I reach maps though

[proper widget]

same boat, i cap out in red maps typically

[ocean narwhal]

Recently I've stopped out because of technical difficulties

like my game looks like it's made of potatoes

and me, being irish, seek escapism from my reality

which is also made of potatoes

[proper widget]

😂

ggg been putting out some patches maybe itll be fixed by league

[ocean narwhal]

It started in ritual and it's been on and off since then I find

[violet nymph]

yeah i was never a red mapper before i ritual. and i'm still far off of my goal of getting a HH.
I started in betrayal lol.

[ocean narwhal]

my favourite build was Doomfletch Prism RoA mines tho

I remember playing around before... they added act 4

[barren crescent]

That build exists still

Its even stronger now with very high ceiling

[ocean narwhal]

I never had the patience back then to run the same storyline 3 times tho

[proper widget]

ive only rly played like 10 leagues, but i played in the act 1 beta

[ocean narwhal]

Yeah I'm a big fan of it, it was a relatively recent build but it was interesting because I didn't see many other people run it.

Also I took coated shrapnel which gave a BIG early game power boost.

[violet nymph]

i'd rather do something like accuracy stacker over something like that

[proper widget]

harvesting knowledge and not getting sidetracked help a lot to get further

[ocean narwhal]

who needs accuracy when you're hitting everywhere at once multiple times is my philosophy

[violet nymph]

you don't know what an accuracy stacker is do you?

[ocean narwhal]

I do

I was make jok

[violet nymph]

ah

i mean accuracy stacker does just that tho. spam shit all over the screen all the time.

so bad joke

[ocean narwhal]

other recent build was hopping onto deadeye memes with sire of shards fireball mines

[barren crescent]

fireball mines are legit

[livid lake]

what do you do for single target though

[barren crescent]

not run sire

just lmp and using that balanced 1400 base dmg of fireball for crit hits

or run pseudo 5/6L pyroclast

[ocean narwhal]

Sire of shards is my favourite unique

Other notable mentions goes to sire of shards + spectres

[plain kiln]

How much do yall think the raider immunity to ailment will get gutted?

[livid lake]

half

[dusty umbra]

to be fair i expect all ascendancy immunties to be gutted

[floral wharf]

I’m worried that Poe is gonna be too slow

Poe is about clearing screens in one click

[maiden coral]

What happens if you run out of money when dealing with the Upsell Merchant?

What if you kept asking him to do his Aug/Divines/Annuls, but you ran out of cash

if ggg members answered this already/answer is known

[native sonnet]

can leave and come back later

[maiden coral]

If it vanishes on level up, ouch 😅

[livid lake]

you just take the current item

[dreamy karma]

so like

im reading through the compiled league information

and now warding doesnt make u curse immune during flask effect?

wtf

???????

instilling orb sounds insane tho

so many new skill gems

oml

[void wing]

Map mod curses got a huge buff.

[dreamy karma]

as in, they are stronger against us?

or wdym

or youre just talking about the warding change

[wooden zephyr]

If they don't touch map mod curses in some way I'm just gonna roll past em lol

[dreamy karma]

same

literally no reason to play with them

[maiden coral]

On the warding demo, it's messed up

Dude gets recursed so many times after they press the flask
There's an AOE lingering effect and the responsible monsters recast it super fast

I could imagine curse trigger flasks to be useless cause of the lingering field

[barren crescent]

Wasnt it a curse map

[maiden coral]

Naw, he was against those necromancer thingies

[barren crescent]

If curse has timer then it was a monster skill

[maiden coral]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN92FZrDDb0&lc=UgxVZrgvf4FaWqDqGaF4AaABAg.9PsK1PUOUh39Pur-DFPNGq

[barren crescent]

That lingering stuff is just pure bs

Its visual effect

Necromancer just spam it on you if you arent cursed and that char keeps running into new necro packs

[maiden coral]

So one doesn't have to step out before using a curse flask?

that's nice

[barren crescent]

Nop

But you can get chain cursed

And this does not remove the threat that curse maps will be posing

Curses only linger with doomsday keystone, relic chamber map boss and other specific sources such as lab fonts

That tripolar vid is getting details wrong which makes me believe it was a kneejerk reaction

Curse maps will be major problem, what stops you from rerolling them

[livid lake]

i'd disagree, the map curses fine a problem to deal with, but I agree this implementation is bad, removing the curse and giving no grace period of immunity is going to be feel bad

the argument is that you 'reactively' or use the orbs to auto-pot when you get a curse, but with the flask changes most flasks are like 1/2 puffs and they gone, so you remove a curse, get recursed and then what? there's no point really running an anti-curse pot anymore.

[barren crescent]

One more dps flask slot

[fair prairie]

just me but i think this leagues balance changes are solely intended to frustrate people. Watching Chris and Ziggy laugh at the idea of how many people will complain just kind of confirms the idea that they are sadists that like to watch people suffer.

[livid lake]

lol

they have a direction for the game and they want to push it that way, we're just along for the ride.

[slow lake]

Even ggg doesnt know what they are doing

[maiden coral]

the fact that ailment immune needs to be timed after ailments and only have 1 second is also a bit sad but understandable, compared to the curse no immunity

[fair prairie]

I disagree I think they know what they are doing. Pretty confident they have a competition to see whos idea will make the most people complain lol

[slow lake]

Great way to do changes

[fair prairie]

hey it's a genre some people dig it. A lot of masochists in the gaming world

personally not a dark souls fan but hey

[maiden coral]

Copium, but could see them reiterate on it as we go
If this is the flask system of poe onwards, would make sense to see how it goes in 3.15

[livid lake]

it is also the GGG way, nerf big and nerf hard

[slow lake]

Yea they really dont care

[livid lake]

i mean thats clearly not true, if they didn't care they wouldn't continue pushing so much content every 3 months

[fair prairie]

sure they would. $$, people stop spending at a certain point and they need a new influx with new supporter packs.

[wooden zephyr]

i do not think ggg is purposely trying to make the game worse lol

we havent even tried the league

or seen patch notes

[fair prairie]

they can get my money from my cold dead hands this league though. totally not going to pay for this type of balance changes lol

[livid lake]

if they wanted pure money, they'd pull a diablo and release shitty narrow contented leagues

not big league mechanics

[slow lake]

All they do is about money

[fair prairie]

not accurate, the big league mechanics is why people show up instead of play something else.

if it was just boring content nobody would be around to spend except maybe the standard players

[barren crescent]

Are your popcorns prepared

[livid lake]

I'm not sure what your argument is here, yes they make content and want money, thats how a business works.

[fair prairie]

that is the point, i can go back to where we switched to money. It was when you said they wouldn't push content every 3 months if they didn't care. Which is lead to money because you can not care, but still want money 😛

[wooden zephyr]

got a front row seat for reddit on tuesday

[barren crescent]

Dang premium

[slow lake]

Yea hardware stores does business too but atleast they have some respect for their customers

[maiden coral]

'game worse' depends on the perspective of each player, but I don't think that its fair to say it'll gut the game

I just hope they won't quadruple grind time in the long run

[barren crescent]

Ppl will still find broken op builds and kill sirus within 24h thats granted

[fair prairie]

changes will only chase off a certain demographic but will attract another, like I said a lot of masochists play video games. Only real question is, which side is willing to pay the most.

[barren crescent]

Poe never tried a to appeal the mass casual gamer audience, it never did. Game is too complex for that

Just look at activision is changing diablo from 3rd to 4th becoming increasingly simpler

[maiden coral]

is 4th simpler? no idea about 4th's systems actually

That's true but the people forced out when the grind becomes unrealistic for them down the road is really unfortunate

[fair prairie]

wasn't really talking about the extreme casual but more about simple core gamers. The folks that don't fit the hardcore side of things or the casual. they just exist in the middle ground. Just my take but that is probably where the majority of poe's current fanbase sits at. Mostly due to the power creep. Earlier years it was more the hardcore gaming crowd.

just imho

[frosty frigate]

I'm staying off of reddit completely for a couple weeks. Lots of salty adhd'rs out there regarding the announced balancing. I'm in complete agreement with this: "If I only had 5 to 10 hours per week to play POE, I just wouldn't play it - I'm not the core demographic." However, I'll never upvote a statement like that again, as I got actual hate messages.

My sarcastic snarky comment to some of the other reddit griping and whining didn't go over well at all either: ""I agree, I can't even imagine the horror of spending 6 to 12 weeks playing during a league, as opposed to just 2 weeks - so I can just sit around and gripe about the game for the next 2.5 months on reddit. I find it despicable that GGG would want me to NOT be hammering away at content with 15 million dps in t16 maps 11 hours after league start."

[neat rover]

any news? PainChamp

[fair prairie]

speaking from personal experience only. Don't think the people unhappy with the changes are the ones doing 15million DPS on the first day. But rather the ones that struggle just getting to 1Million DPS without being forced into using some sort of cheesy cookie cutter build.

people that do 15million dps on the first day are going to be fine.

only ones that will be hurt are the people already struggling

[copper kernel]

challenge rewards soon

[fair prairie]

oh is it challenge rewards? My brain is dead I thought it was manifesto

dang it you are right, i lost a day. -.-

[void wing]

We'll find out soon if I'll be doing 36 challenges this league.

Portal or bust.

[steep dock]

The portal is the real deal

[neat rover]

too many portals guys

we need armor as a reward

new type of stuff

[tawny pasture]

wing/cloak can be a good motivation too

[neat rover]

even hideouts are okayish

good effects motivates me more

like metamorph one

[void wing]

I never even bothered to use the free wings I got in ulti

[tawny pasture]

i mean they need to be good looking x)

[void wing]

Who knows if I'll even be able to do 36 with 'new difficulty'

[tawny pasture]

new difficulty is only act 1 tho

[void wing]

Did you miss the bit where they're nerfing flasks and all pure damage support gems?

[stuck ridge]

Flask nerf itself is difficulty

[void wing]

Idm the nerfs, it'll be interesting. Can't judge before trying it out.

[stuck ridge]

I'll wait for patchnotes b4 I even try to form an opinion

Who knows what Chris is saying and how he's phrasing stuff

[frosty frigate]

I think we all struggled our first couple leagues with that same problem. I've adapted and became a better player. The first couple leagues for me were REALLY rough. I'm not a 1%'r by any means, but I really enjoy the game and press further and further each league. I understand that some may struggle with the game, but for me, when I'm challenged, I try and find ways to overcome those challenges, as opposed to whining incessantly. There is a huge helpful community (some of it toxic) around POE, and I fail to see why someone would constantly struggle with the game league after league if they have both the time investment and the fortitude to learn the systems and drive their knowledge base forward.

[frosty frigate]

If the portal we saw in the trailer is a challenge reward, I'm going to go super hard for full challenge completion.

Though I have no idea what build I'm playing this league, waiting for patch notes impatiently 🙂

[rose pasture]

Sounds like honeymoon period 🙃

Yeah, why not to enjoy while it lasts!

[glad thicket]

Was anything announced on july 16 and 17?

[livid apex]

royale days?

[glad thicket]

oh that makes sense in hindsight, Royale wasnt announced then

Thanks

[steep dock]

They could have at least posted an announcement of 👀

[empty crystal]

new eyes mtx coming soon

[ocean narwhal]

Thinking of battlemages cry as a build

I wonder how good it is

[hasty perch]

Probably needs indigon to be good outside of clearing

[neat rover]

news soon? PainChamp

[foggy zinc]

just one more crumb pls

[slender temple]

3 crumbs

12 24 36 chall

36 is probably ap ortal since we gonna have the separate mapping stuff through logbooks

12 24 who knows

[earnest patio]

cant wait D:

[steep dock]

Think i'll be trying those blade traps as my first build

[slender temple]

btw i noticed something in the chris stream

utzaal outskirts...

the area where you fight TM with inscribed ultimatums is the utzaal arena

[floral cobalt]

dont think so lol

I looked everywhere the last 2 days and i didnt see shit.

Soo i guess we were excited for more news for nothing.

[graceful sentinel]

Pre sure july 16/17 was for battle royale.

[copper kernel]

yeah

[slender temple]

also duinno if viper watching but i saw the knights of the sun reference in the chris stream. so there are dark souls and diablo 2 influences 😄

[silver kettle]

🤷 I've not played either so I wouldn't know a reference to them if it slapped me across the face

[slender temple]

😄

slaps viper with gheed's hand

[fair prairie]

that is just the thing though right, people would like to be able to just plug a build in and play without it mattering too much if it's a bad build. This used to be something you could do prior to the insane health buffs. It wasn't super fast or anything not even very efficient. But you could do it. The health buffs made that impossible and pushed people more toward having to relay on cookie cutter builds or at least their own variant of them. Further adding more difficulty isn't going to do this magical thing of making build diversty a thing, it will do the opposite. Not sure why chris seems to think it will. As someone that played with those players you call whiners. I can attest to that each and everytime the game ramps up the difficulty the fewer options we have available to us. You probably would become a whiner too if the game you enjoyed playing the way you enjoyed playing it was slowly closing itself off to you.

[empty crystal]

I hoped the way was to grant more builds the power to get to endgame. But feels like you need an even more meta build to succeed in the future.

[fair prairie]

I think they look at their data in a way that supports confirmation bias. Naturally everytime they nerf things there is false statistics that make it appear like build diversity as people scramble to try and find a build that works. But having a ton of people playing unviable builds looking for one that is viable isn't build diversity. looking at those stats only proves that you can change what the meta is by nerfs and buffs, but the level of diversity won't change.

[empty crystal]

Agree with that. Ofc it's hard to see at the data what ppl didn't play or abandon after x levels. The part with the most/highest numbers may not be the part to look at.

[fair prairie]

thats the other thing right, they are running with this false assumption that people are quitting early due to amassing too much wealth and leaving. For me? I leave because it gets too hard to amass wealth. Sometimes I will go weeks without a single exalt drop. And sure the mass of my currency is in other currencies but who cares when the trade is such a pain to deal with. More or less I end up leaving early because items are not accessible to me, not because I amassed too much wealth but rather the direct opposite.

[steep dock]

I hope the patch notes get put through a markov chain generator

[fair prairie]

Zana challenge now reflects damage (this is a buff)

i love markov funny things always pop up

[empty crystal]

😄

[steep dock]

The Grove's Call now has a +5% chance to contain you, down from a +10% chance.

Remember this gem?

If you're very lucky, you can allocate passives.

Or: Added a new debuff which reduces your action speed and causes you to lose 3% of your passive tree. Socketing one of our supporters!

[empty crystal]

This is Top3 for sure.

More fun than the actual patch notes.

[empty crystal]

scary

[rough phoenix]

damn

the challenge rewards look really cool

[vague ledge]

that portal is sick

[rough phoenix]

the bow and weapon effect are pretty neat too

[hoary snow]

yeah the weapon effect is neat, rest doesn't interest me

[rough phoenix]

the portal is definitely my goal for the league

[unkempt fjord]

boi..... I've gone 2 leagues without a single exalt drop.......... I only got 1 exalt drop, and that was in harvest.

(I started playing in harvest)

[floral cobalt]

eehhhh dont know how i feel about challenge league rewards.

I think the portal is pretty neat i suppose.

But i have soo many portals now.

Whens the last time they did an actual full set of armour or anything ? Did they ever in the last four years or was the golden seraph set the only one ?

[olive phoenix]

Yes, I am pretty sure it's the only one

[fair prairie]

i never achieved it but i think it was cool that one time they gave away a house

i would like to see more of that

[crisp tree]

hideout?

[fair prairie]

yeah forget the league but it was kind of cool. believe it was fairly recent though

[hexed knoll]

it was ritual

[fair prairie]

sounds right i knew it was super recent

[crisp tree]

yes

too many portals from challenge rewards

i liked the pet from heist, i already have a good portal

[floral cobalt]

I mean free is free, hopefully this leagues challenges are actually more league related than atlas fluff.

I miss that about old challenges.

[fair prairie]

i have more helmets then i know what to do with. so glad it's not that.

[junior belfry]

Boooo footprints. However the portals look awesome!

[floral cobalt]

But yeah i was definitely expecting something a bit more... Thematic i suppose ? as far as the league mtx challenge rewards.

Theyre probably going to release new killer mtx same week as release i bet.

They typically do now i think.

[junior belfry]

When do they release the challenge list?

[floral cobalt]

id assume tomorrow ?

Cause patch notes is the 20th i believe.

[junior belfry]

Gotta plan the 36 😁

[floral cobalt]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3146018

looks like it isnt listed for what the challenges will be

soo maybe theyll come out same day as either manifesto or patch note ?

that or itll be the 22nd

day before

[light adder]

They don´t, you see them on leaguestart, or maybe some people datamine the patch before that, but no news what you have to do

[junior belfry]

Yeah we will see

[foggy zinc]

they don't announce the challenge list

[junior belfry]

Last league they were out before launch. Not sure how.

[foggy zinc]

you might see it early on friday once the download of the patch is available and someone scrapes the data

[hollow mason]

so, any ideas hows ward would works in poe?

same as in LE - like u gaining some flat and it slightly degening, but if u hitting - u getting ward on hit and could build big defensive shield?

[junior belfry]

I want the Aesir portals really bad. But I cannot afford a $90USD supporter pack. Wish they would split them out.

[hollow mason]

but for all things with phases its would be soo horrible

[junior belfry]

It will probably keep me from buying a pack this league. Will probably just buy a few points individually

[empty crystal]

makes the core supporter packs more interesting if someone wants to spend 90 or more

[junior belfry]

I might actually buy the delve supporter pack instead. Only $35 upgrade for me.

[empty crystal]

yeah I think I'd rather do that

[floral cobalt]

theres 30-60-90 versions

[empty crystal]

they're still not that interesting though

[floral cobalt]

what do you mean "not interesting" ?

[empty crystal]

not interesting enough for the price points, no idea to say it different

[waxen edge]

btw the weapon is a transmog :)

[empty crystal]

makes the core supporter packs seem more interesting from 100+ instead of the 90 pack

[floral cobalt]

Youre packing more in general for less in the core packs im pretty sure.

Basically $90 for Aesir you get the exaclt point equivilent which you normally dont get til higher packs like Abyss. You get a full set of armour, a weapon reskin, a weapon effect, wings and a portal effect.

Breach you get less points for the pack cost. A full set of armour, 1 helmet variation, a weapon effect, pet and a portal.

Aesir is a very good price/quality to point ratio.

And since i played in breach league i already have footprints, weapon effect and a portal effect so when i bought my core packs i kinda lost out on those since i already had breach themed items.

[empty crystal]

they're all still good sure, always a better idea to buy packs instead of points

I like that Aesir is blue, the color I miss a few things from. But I don't like the armor design 😦

[floral cobalt]

But imo if you really want Aesir pack, if you dont care much about portals the $60 one is probably the choice to make if you dont care about the portal and soundtracks, etc.

[empty crystal]

Yeah I think so.

[floral cobalt]

The portal on it i kinda like, but i feel like its a tad unfinished.

But i can edit my hideout to make the portal look better

I felt like there should be some sort of stone gate around the portal effect, cause it does look very flat and plan outside the apparition

[empty crystal]

Also really depends on what portals someone already has, I think I've got enough for now. Would like the breach one though.

[floral cobalt]

if i did have to say my one qualm with that pack its just that.

Breach league gave the basic hand breach thingy as a portal effect

Which is decent but the actual breach supporter pack portal is pretty great not gonna lie

[empty crystal]

It probably wasn't enough if I had the breach leagues portal 😄

[floral cobalt]

Im one of those "need to have matching stuff" kinda people so if i didnt get the aesir portal too id have felt incomplete haha.

[empty crystal]

But that's really the advantage of having points on top, to buy stuff that also matches it.

[floral cobalt]

Ill have to play around in my hideout sometime to make the portal look better.

[empty crystal]

[floral cobalt]

Oh man halloween is coming soon too

[empty crystal]

uhoh

[floral cobalt]

so i need to save some points for halloween mtx.

I have the OG pumpkin head mtx which was LTM (limited time only and never returning).

I saw on the wiki they added more halloween stuff, i dont think they do LTM only anymore so hopefully i can snatch some of the stuff i missed.

[empty crystal]

Yeah always good to have some points on the side.

Not risking buying the atlas core pack and pace myself on the points though. Probably a little big

[slender temple]

maybe we will get a recoloured bum drumming skeleton

[empty crystal]

[maiden coral]

Personally going for Abyss thru point purchases here and there, then use what points I get to buy a few more tabs and enhance the look of the 3 armor sets + generic skill mtxes

Might go up to Harvest tho, if I am able to get more money and enjoy the game direction and feel for 3.15 and 3.16

[empty crystal]

Yeah kinda depends on the direction of the game. If I'm pleased it may as well go to core packs.

[wooden zephyr]

wonder if guardian's curse reduction will be looked at

seems very appealing

[indigo wolf]

Hmm... have they considered ever making old league challenge cosmetics available for purchase?

[maiden coral]

I don't think so, that kinda goes against it

[empty crystal]

The last posts all said "will never be available again" or something like that. So unlikely.

[slender temple]

they've been pressed on the matter and the official response is that "it wouldn't be fair to the people who bought with the idea that it wouldn't be available again later"

same thign for the league challnge rewards i guess

[lilac saffron]

There would be no gain for them to do that

if anything the opposite

[maiden coral]

its a very short term and selfish gain if anything, that hurts long term

[honest ivy]

any build thats similar to ragevortex?

so i can practice for it

i guess rampage cyclone maybe?

[proper widget]

blade storm or w/e?

[honest ivy]

potentially

it's essentially from what i can tell is a rage cyclone that sends out waves of damage so what could i potentially use with cyclone to simulate those waves of damage?

[pure blaze]

@honest ivy um ...idk wave of conviction?

Oh wait no you wana practice for a skill thats not in the game xD ih trust me that wont work too well

[sharp iron]

So if damage supports are being nerfed but utilities are kept at the same power level, I'm thinking of going with a Duelist with lifetap support and 100% of his mana reserved.

I doubt damage conversion supports are getting nerfed since I believe those are more utility than damage increased. So I believe a Champion loaded up on that will be decent.

[lilac saffron]

damage conversion is one of this games biggest mistake

the way it works I mean

[sharp iron]

Okay, I think I figured it out. I can stick a Vaal Timeless jewel (which has damage conversion as part of it). And that hits a ton of notables as well as a keystone to transform. Then I can go to the bottom of his tree and to the left, and collect a large Two-handed wheel, a Sword wheel, and Lava Lash.

[slender temple]

you know everyone is asking what the new patch message is doing. nobody is asking HOW the new patch message is doing

[past obsidian]

Has anyone figured out a 6L for explosive concoction

I know the level 20 gems are not out yet but I am just wondering

[slender temple]

ask again on tuesday at earliest imho 😛 best time friday

[tawdry badger]

after seeing that portal at 36 challenges, ill have to at least try to get there, build theory crafter magicians
つ ◕◕ ༽つ Take My Energy つ ◕◕ ༽つ

[fair prairie]

So let's say they increase the challenge of the world to fit the challenge of the league mechanics. What would that do to the entire challenge vs reward dynamic. Wouldn't that make league content basicly just feel like free loot with no added difficulty? I don't think a flatlined difficulty between these two things is a smart choice.

idk about anyone else but I always liked that leagues had a sharp difficulty spike in the mix of fairly easy content

[rotund surge]

Getting to 36 challenges is easy, if you are willing to buy them for currency.

[rotund surge]

Why would the league mechanics feel like "free loot" if the non-league mechanics get harder? I don't see the logical connection in the argument. Keep in mind, that they want to make player chars weaker and everything ells harder. I don't see how that would lead to a feeling of "free loot". On top of that, Chris said in an interview, that ultimatum was to rewarding, based on that we could see less loot in the next league as well.

[slender temple]

join TFT and buy them there

some challlengs are just how do you say.. bs 😄 just pay someone to do it

liek if you play a summoner. some conditionals not worth the headache

[tall dew]

Ah I lost the mood to play because its too hot and my Surface get hotter like im playing in front of a grill plate

gosh

Please make it cool again at 23rd so we all can game in peace, muahahaha

[rotund surge]

Just ask your bf to periodically rub ice cream all over you, so you can game in peace

[velvet palm]

Just game from inside a fridge

[past badger]

Hehe

[slender temple]

@tall dew I used usb keyboard with laptop for same reason

Too hot to touch

[tall dew]

Don't you know there's no airconditioner in UK household?

hahaha

opening a fan is like blowing the hot air back at me

the game lagged when gaming too

gosh

anyway, bless everyone with a great experience at the start of expedition. I wonder how crazy it will be

And I wonder how will my cyclone gaming will get nerfed

What's the idea of fast early expedition build for now?

[empty crystal]

I think Cyclone depends a lot on quicksilver flask. Waiting to see what changes on that part.

[void wing]

Stampede BiS meta

[empty crystal]

[indigo wedge]

there s a timer for manifesto today?

[bronze cave]

No, roughly 9-12 hours from now

[maiden coral]

Ngl, a main page countdown for manifesto and patchnotes would be funny

[indigo wedge]

OK

[warm field]

When will expedition starting? 23 July?

[upper quest]

yes

[rough phoenix]

10pm CEST

[tawdry badger]

well i'm going SSF at least for the start, sooo

[quaint saddle]

skipping this league too, not worth it with all the nerfs

[eager charm]

Um…then you’ll be skipping the leagues for the next foreseeable future

[rough phoenix]

who cares about nerfs lmao

you're not going to be stuck at yellow maps because of them

[maiden coral]

it's uh
a downward trend from now own for a few leagues

[rough phoenix]

if your goal is to shit on all content

there will always be a build that can do that

personally im happy for it, dont want gameplay similar to D3

[lilac saffron]

Yeah right

Imagine hitting a mob once

And it doesnt die

[pure blaze]

Question....

Do you guys think forbidden rite will be able to trigger cast on damage taken?

[wooden zephyr]

it damages you right?

i think that would work

[fair prairie]

it would feel like free loot in that instance because the difficulty level of the league would be the same as the base game. So you wouldn't be at any added risk. It would just feel the same as the base content.

I say that because after listening to the wording on the video carefully it sounds like their end goal is to have base game difficulty level feel the same as the league mechanic difficulty

[violet nymph]

pretty sure Viper has explained it doesn't.

[fair prairie]

watching the video on forbidden rite makes it look like a pretty good skill only if you have something like chaos innoc where you are immune to chaos damage. Because it just chunks your life away.

3 casts and dead? That is gross lol

[indigo wolf]

Someone will make it work with 100 ex investment and 95% phys reduc

[violet nymph]

it's not phys

it's chaos

[fair prairie]

yeah, just a heavier investment skill not sure if it's a great league start type skill.

[indigo wolf]

Sorry, I was thinking of boneshatter

[fair prairie]

boneshatter seems slow to me. plus it's not pretty enough lol

kinda looks like an infernal blow type skill

[pure blaze]

Imma run cyclone cast while channeling forbidden rite

The forbidden build

XD

[rotund surge]

Your assumption would only work if it would feel like the loot you get in the basic game would feel like "free loot". I highly doubt, that people feel like that valuable drops in poe feel like "free loot".

[fair prairie]

i always feel like it's free loot if I don't have to do anything harder and it still gives me an explosion of loot.

league mechanics tend to be more rewarding - because they are more challenging. But if they are not more challenging it's just added loot. It would take away some of the feel of the league mechanic.

[tranquil aurora]

Boneshatter needs a way to create stacks on bosses

[timid geyser]

it does. by hitting the boss

[tranquil aurora]

Once

[timid geyser]

Nah, doesn't work like that. The limit is one stack per sttack

It stops thinks like ancestral call & multistrike (maybe) from gaining more than 1 stack.

But you can gain multiple stacks from a single target by attacking multiple times.

[tranquil aurora]

Hmmm, weird wording then, but that's nothing new to PoE

Cheers

[timid geyser]

Yeah, if you want I'd suggest also checking out the game play video clarifies it a bit. I agree though wording messed me up first when I read it.

[tranquil aurora]

Might actually try it on raider

[timid geyser]

Might have issues mitigating self-damage on raider, but if you can then it should be a pretty solid option. At least in raider's current state.

[tranquil aurora]

Think Persistence will help a lot with some life on hit and fortify

Depending on how the self damage scales up though

[timid geyser]

Yeah, really need 20/20 info to make a solid evaluation.

[rotund surge]

But you agree that the base game is to easy? If you agree, then the current base game, is after your definition, "free loot". And since you don't want "free loot", it is in your interest that the game gets harder over all. Right?

[fair prairie]

I think the base game is fine, it makes the challenging content feel better.

[tranquil aurora]

Not really sure about GGG making the acts tougher starting from 1 and working their way up. I'd have started at 10 and worked my way down

[fair prairie]

i think they chose 1 because a lot of stuff from 1 shows up in maps

and all the map versions are getting the same buff

[tranquil aurora]

Aye, but does make it a bit less friendly for new players, and PoE already doesn't do very well in that department

[fair prairie]

i think that is the point, It feels like they want to show more casual or bad players the door.

trying to appease the people they consider their core

[tranquil aurora]

Doubt they are trying to cull the userbase. More like they want to level the playing field without alienating too many players.

I just hope there won't be one shot mechanics all around again

[fair prairie]

wrong method to not alienate the playerbase making content harder is exactly how you do that. plenty of people already struggle without looking at build guides. making it more difficult will only lower the options available to them and force them into build guide only play. which isn't exactly fun.

[tranquil aurora]

Aye, a bit afraid the changes/nerfs to damage and defenses are going to cause less build diversity and more reliability on cookiecutter builds, driving up prices for everything

[fair prairie]

it will, at first there will be an appearence of more build diversity because everyone will be trying to find something that works

but it's just faux numbers

[violet nymph]

They arent trying to cull playerbase for sure
This is them transitioning to a game state that more closely resembles what we've been told poe2 is pushing us towards

A couple major changes that are coming that will make the difference is gems 2.0 and bases 2.0

[fair prairie]

balancing around a toolkit that isn't even available is a bad move.

[violet nymph]

If you dont like the slower and harder content. There's some bad news. It's only going to lean into that more as time goes on.

[fair prairie]

it's fine, i'll keep trying to play but i'll stop giving them my money. IT's not a huge deal.

[violet nymph]

It's not balanced around it.
This is still balanced around our current tools.
It's just them working to transition players mindset and power to be more in line with poe2

[tranquil aurora]

I doubt they are going to achieve the game speed they intend though. There's too many variables in the game. Chris even mentioned it that there are abilities out there that are probably just waiting for people to find out the mechanics to make it the next best thing

They will take care of them at each season, but people will just find the next best thing

[wooden zephyr]

why would anyone think they're trying to reduce the playerbase

[fair prairie]

if they really want to nerf the game they have to nerf the tools players have available to them. a lot of the lack of the beta feeling is because tools exist that didnt use to.

path of building for example

[tranquil aurora]

I think the only way to take care of the power creep is to convert at least half the existing "more" modifiers to "increased" modifiers

[violet nymph]

I'm going to argue they know this. And the goal isnt to totally remove zoom gameplay but to get it within an acceptable threshold. And make it something that is investment related.

[fair prairie]

I think nerfing is good tbh, I just think one shot mechanics need nerfed a long with it. Slower paced games is great when that is actually what it is

but a lot of stuff would need to go with that, like players ability to heal and such

[tranquil aurora]

I think they are on the right track though. The option for (nerfed) auto-potions is my personal favorite change in years :)

[fair prairie]

as it stands when they speak of challenge, it's just faux challenge.

[tranquil aurora]

Don't really know what you mean by 'faux challenge'. All challenge in games is artificial.

[fair prairie]

well most the times avoiding getting one shotted isn't exactly skill there isn't a lot a player can do. You are not challenging yourself, it's just this fake thing to make it appear more challenging. I mean there is some cases where it is player skill but usually it's just some thing you can't see coming because there is zero visual clarity.

[tranquil aurora]

Agreed on that, but to be fair that is a lot better than it was

[fair prairie]

plus often times it happens so fast you don't even see it coming

[tranquil aurora]

There's certain mechanics that shouldn't really exist in today's game, or should have more tools to handle them

[fair prairie]

if they wanted "Challenging" content instead of just punishing content. They would reduce the number of oneshot mechanics but also nerf the number of ways for players to regen their health. Turn every death into something more clearly the players fault.

[tranquil aurora]

Reflect damage, corpse explosions, monsters with modifiers that start with "Allies have significant..."

[fair prairie]

like imho Sirus while i hate his face is a good fight

I've never felt once that any my deaths to him was the games fault

It always felt like it was mine

well.. except when it was buggy that first time with the cyclones coming together at the entrance

[tranquil aurora]

Nah Sirus is a bad fight

[fair prairie]

that stuff was BS lol

[tranquil aurora]

Too many immunity phases

[fair prairie]

well yeah that is annoying but i was talking from a challenge stand point

[tranquil aurora]

Also getting shot at from offscreen

[fair prairie]

never had that happen personally.

[tranquil aurora]

Lucky you

[fair prairie]

maybe bad fight then. didn't realize that was possible then again I don't watch a ton of videos so lol

my deaths usually came from my own closterphobia lol. He would do that stupid maze thing and I'd feel panicy and die lol

[wild lagoon]

they are trying to transition speed of game into poe 2

so its not such a drastic change and keeps player base

[fair prairie]

maybe what they are trying to do, but may end up losing some anyways? Will be interesting to see if there is a sudden drop off after the first few days or if it'll be a steady incline.

honestly i find it fascinating the polarization of the topic depending on where you talk about it.

[wild lagoon]

true. this isnt the first time we have had massive nerfs...poison double dipping and all the conversion nonsense..people will find a way to to keep the speed of the game at least similar to what it is now. Especially with all the new skills becoming available and im sure some absurb interactions.

people freak out everytime ggg says nerf

[fair prairie]

oh the players that are doing well will keep on doing well, It's those that struggle that will drop off.

[wild lagoon]

well seems like most people just copy paste streamer builds anyways

at least nowadays

[fair prairie]

it was forced on people really. I always felt comfortable making bad builds prior to the massive health buffs to npcs

[tranquil aurora]

Aye but is that good for the game?

[fair prairie]

but after that It felt really bad doing anything below 2m dps

[tranquil aurora]

The build-copying

[wild lagoon]

@tranquil aurora i guess it depends on what you enjoy? I have never copied builds and always enjoyed the bizarre interactions with making off the wall builds.

[fair prairie]

over all player damage, and monster health needs to come down. They speak ill about a stat squish but such a thing would honestly be good for the lower end of the player base.

[tranquil aurora]

I don't think it depends on what you enjoy. It's benificial for the game to allow different styles

[fair prairie]

people build copying isn't a problem, the fact that the game makes you feel like you need to in order to have a chance -is- a problem

[wild lagoon]

yeah and particle effects and so much shit going on screen that you cant differentiate anything and end up dying with no explanation lol

[fair prairie]

every skill should have a cheap entry level option to be semi-viable even if not efficient. But current state of monster health and damage just makes that not really a thing unless you are a super astute and experienced players.

[wild lagoon]

@tranquil aurorathats what im saying. some people enjoy theorycrafting..some people prefer to watch a streamer play a meta build, copy it and reach endgame

[tranquil aurora]

There's also frankly too large a gap between trash HP and bosses. I guess the 2.0 Gem mechanics will take care of that though, being able to run several 6 links

Makes builds with both singletarget and clear abilities more widespread

[fair prairie]

please don't say that, then they will get the genius idea of making trash monsters all have 40million health

not sure how it's so hard for them to understand that more monster health will never -ever- EVER effect the people they think it does. The people that abuse those things will continue to be fine no matter how much health they give monsters. The only people affected is the lower end

[timid geyser]

anyway ggg write this down

[fair prairie]

you could probably give everything 10 trillion health and the top end players will continue to chug along

[wild lagoon]

you could always give it the old diablo 2 crushing blow treatment make a stat that gives a small % chance to reduce boss hp by a %

[violet nymph]

I mean 6l clear and 6l bossing skills being more reasonably available will make for a big difference.
And will likely drastically shift the meta in ways that we've not seen. As it's been to prohibitively expensive (if you wanted to pseudo 6l when on non 2hander/bow), build limited (2hander/bow), or socket starved to do in a lot of cases.
As well, meta gems are a part of gems 2.0 end will play further into this as well.

[tawny pasture]

You still wont be able to have 6 link on item like glove or one handed

[violet nymph]

@tawny pasture uh. Gems for poe2
As the gems themselves will be holding the links not the item.

[tawny pasture]

I know but you wont be able to have 10 6l either

[violet nymph]

They've explained that, yes you can.

[timid geyser]

No, any gem can be 6socket(linked) doesn't matter the gear slot it is socketed into.

[violet nymph]

^

[timid geyser]

Now in reality most people won't run 10 6L. There isn't too much reason to have more than say 4L on a wither totem for example.

[violet nymph]

As well they did say that 6socket will be closer in rarity to 6ls are rn

[foggy zinc]

if it increases their damage people will run it 6l

[fair prairie]

i think they will probably be adding more defensive skills with supports that benefit them. plus utilities. I can't see them wanting us to use all 10 six links on just damage abilities.

unless you are running like some sort of minion build lol

[indigo wolf]

Going to suck when you need 5 supports just to make flame dash equivalent to what it was before the nerfs ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[empty crystal]

nah. 5 won't be enough

[steep dock]

you'll need at least 10 links

[split cliff]

Wonder what the chance of getting an unique is gonna be on that ladys base type gamble

1/200?

[restive crescent]

can links be posted here?

(video)

@copper kernel ^

[copper kernel]

i guess

as long as it follows the rules

[restive crescent]

it's yt video

"actual" trailer

fun stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPMrsdtFLRU

[fair prairie]

man, I didn't want to see chris's balls lol. thanks for that now I need to try and delete that image from my head

[restive crescent]

😂

[midnight crest]

"Alchemy shards will now drop as unique items"

Basically this will happen... I think i won't see chaos until act 10 😄

[restive crescent]

impossible

you will see them sooner

[midnight crest]

yea in yellow maps.. oh wait i will not reach white maps due to 240% nerf of dmg 😄

This trailer never fail to make me laugh

[restive crescent]

lmfao

yeah but still

ok i get damage nerf

BUT

why CoC costs mana now?

what's the logic behind this?

[timid geyser]

To nerf CoC

[restive crescent]

nerf the damage then

don't break functionality

[timid geyser]

I mean if self-cast builds can solve mana cost why can't triggered builds?

[restive crescent]

meh idk

[timid geyser]

Nothing is "broken" functionally. Mechanically speaking anyway.

100% breaks how a lot of CoC builds are currently built though

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

[restive crescent]

less auras and more mp steal i guess

[timid geyser]

yup.

[restive crescent]

😦

[timid geyser]

imo it is a better fix than just nerfing the damage. Gives your multiple ways to "solve" the issues with different trade-offs.

Also damage is getting nerf via support gem nerfs. Though that is pretty global across most builds.

[restive crescent]

figured that

anyway overall since this is a dedicated league channel

i hope i will play more then 1 week now

[midnight crest]

welp this time you will need reserve less mana 😄

[restive crescent]

Ritual was beast

hope this will be at least 80% as fun

[timid geyser]

I mean there are actually loads of options that involve this. For example Lifetap + LGoH might be a pretty solid solution on life based builds.

Inspiration support is a pretty big one as well.

Also you can use -# mana cost crafts as well, and since they are non-channeling skills (the ones being triggered) you can use the large values.

[midnight crest]

Aka pratically saying, to have mana lose a lot of dps

[violet nymph]

Mana coc was actually the stronger version previously

[steep dock]

This time we will place the circles, Circlemaster League

[violet nymph]

So, 100 rage (bear's girdle, replica conq efficiency and some tree), a carcass jack, and some support from blood and sand aoe nodes on tree, you can pull rage vortex up to 37 AoE. Assuming the base is roughly the same as base cyclone based off the videos we saw.
you also are getting 100% more damage, 150% increased damage, 50% increased attack speed, 20% increased movement speed, and 79 to 142 flat damage from the rage scalings in this setup.

[fair prairie]

I may use rage vortex, I just need to find a way to channel all the forum and reddit energy into my character.

[violet nymph]

well if it makes ya feel better about it. it's got a fuck load of AoE.

[floral cobalt]

manifesto soon ?

[fair prairie]

honestly after learning it will just be the first act this time its not so bad. Still going to hate it but i'll cope lol.

feeling like a punching bag at the start of the game is okay

makes acquiring power feel better.

[dreamy spear]

The "smarter" monsters feels fine for me. After a couple playthroughs you'll know what to watch out for and adapt. Harder is not worse

[valid goblet]

Explode on death flicker strike ghosts when

[dreamy spear]

And once you get to a point where damage for map clearing is more than sufficient, the support gem nerf won't slow atlas progression down that much anymore, I hope

It's not like previous leagues I was "barely" killing stuff :p

[violet nymph]

@fair prairie
So, blue is rage vortex at 0% aoe and +2 radius from having 20 rage when cast.
Greeen is Bladestrom with 73% increased AoE
Red is rage votex at 73% increased AoE and +10 radius from having 100 rage when cast.

[empty crystal]

sexy

[violet nymph]

oh wait there is some math error here

sec

the rage vortex and bladestorm share the same range at that increased AoE spot

sorry, the hit part of bladestorm hits that far out.

[empty crystal]

still interesting though

[violet nymph]

the green circle for the ground effect of bladestorm falls roughly in the middle of the red and green circle.

[hollow mason]

behead support soo meme

30% more damage against enemies on low life

really?

[timid geyser]

I mean isn't that the level 1 gem?

[hollow mason]

against enemies on low life or more?

😄

it doesnt really matters

[timid geyser]

So probably more in the range of 40-50% more vs low life

[hollow mason]

nice

[violet nymph]

still quite bad

[sharp iron]

Development manifesto when?

[hollow mason]

u have support gem that deal 0 dam to non low life mobs than

[fair prairie]

ngl I kind of hate you ZetAKE for pinging me. was in another channel and saw the red dot, got all excited thinking the manifesto came earlier then normal -.- /slap.

[timid geyser]

I mean yeah, makes it a 20-25% more damage effectively assuming no culling strike.

[violet nymph]

about an hour and a half

[hollow mason]

u could even use any support u like, like fork or chain

with melee

thats really bad gem at this point

[sharp iron]

Thanks man

You're the mvp

[floral cobalt]

Should be out anyyyyy time now

[fair prairie]

wouldn't say that I think it's only 9:14 AM there. Or so. Still pretty early think they tend to do that sort of thing toward the end of their work day.

[silver kettle]

https://twitter.com/pathofexile/status/1417231898359697414

Path of Exile (@pathofexile)

We're about one hour away from posting the Balance Manifesto. https://t.co/4l6DuOmJ1D

Twitter · Jul 19, 2021, 9:16 PM

[fair prairie]

lol of course

thanks for that viper

[slender temple]

this is me moments before the manifesto strangles me

[rough phoenix]

pain

[velvet fern]

I wonder if earthbreaker works with perforate, changing the skill used by the totem accordingly if I change from sand to blood stance. always wanted to make a perforate build work

[floral cobalt]

Im a melee person

i am impervious to nerfs.

I am one with pain.

I need a "Melee since 2012" bumper sticker.

[sharp iron]

Honestly, I think melee will get hit the least hard by the nerfs. They've nerfing the damage support gems so the utility ones will be on-par. And I think melee probably uses utility supports the most.

[floral cobalt]

Yee

Im excited for beheading its gonna be fun.

Thats the kind of flavour support gem id easily drop another support gem for

[empty crystal]

The only thing impervious to nerfs is bow skills. Not sure there are much left.

[timid geyser]

Wanna test that theory

[slender temple]

thats because enemies are impervious to bow skills without alot of investment

[empty crystal]

true

[floral cobalt]

hopefully armour set sale after store reset

then followed by tab sale.

[empty crystal]

tab sale probably a week after league start

but should be a lot of different sales soon

[floral cobalt]

i really need to grab the executioner set, aint been on sale since i think the original bulk league sale.

when ultimatum started.

[last axle]

mtx in PoE should be cheaper

[frail badger]

Balance manifesto

[floral cobalt]

should be up right after maintence

[rough phoenix]

thats going to be my posture if i see my build gutted

😌

[floral cobalt]

might wanna use the restroom before manifesto then

[violet nymph]

come onnn

[sharp iron]

Should be any minute now

[empty crystal]

about one could also be .. more

[rough phoenix]

come on mr wilson

dont yank my chain

[sharp iron]

They said we were "about one hour away" an hour and 14 minutes ago

[empty crystal]

it's like selling for 1.9 ex instead of 2

you don't have to wait 2 hours

[peak geode]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3147157

[frail badger]

[empty crystal]

it's more nerfs than usual so uploading takes more time than they expected

[violet nymph]

EHRFGIUYHQGBERIGEWF

[empty crystal]

awww my gawd

is it true

[sharp iron]

Oh, there we go

[empty crystal]

lets read and cry after

[wanton flower]

here comes the manifesto

[rough phoenix]

lets go

YEAH BABY

my build is still viable

[empty crystal]

you mean no build is viable now

[rough phoenix]

praise

[indigo wolf]

We've replaced all sources of the stat on non-notable Cluster Jewel passive skills with the standard damage increase to be consistent with other Medium cluster jewels with damage bonuses, and lowered the values or replaced the stat entirely on Cluster Jewel Notables.
Sounds like a big nerf

[floral cobalt]

ayyy traps virtually untouched LOL

called a trap and totem league, still reading

[wanton flower]

archmage dropped from 108% to 60% oof

[rough phoenix]

accuracy stacking wasnt touched

makes me happy

[wanton flower]

archmage damage is like halved or worse?

[floral cobalt]

loooks like they touched gems too to bring up the floor to not punish things that werent meta

thats good

[rough phoenix]

oh dear

[wanton flower]

rip my first weekend money making lol

[rough phoenix]

no changes to harvest

[empty crystal]

aisling r... nerfed so hard? omg

[rough phoenix]

i still have a decent money maker

[wanton flower]

thats such a massive nerf to aisling

Was a nice way to finish an item 😦

[floral cobalt]

bro crit supports buffed Kreygasm

[empty crystal]

too many ppl used that method apparently

[wanton flower]

diamond flask is now 100% increased crit strike chance

thats a giganerf

[empty crystal]

did they really buff bow gems? hahaha so they only suck 50%

wow. could just drop diamond flask then

[floral cobalt]

100% chance to crit is pretty good still, it just means youre not rewarded for spamming skills with low crit chance now.

[wanton flower]

"With the changes to the Diamond Flask, we didn't want the Sulfur Flask to be the best critical strike flask, so enemies on Consecrated Ground no longer have additional base chance to be critically hit."

Oof

[empty crystal]

😂

[floral cobalt]

Need more base crit for it to be applicable.

[empty crystal]

Yeah was to be expected for crit.

[floral cobalt]

Generally 100% chance to crit is somewhere in the range of +10%~ actual crit chance.

[empty crystal]

Full crit doesn't need it, others shouldn't expect to crit as much.

[wanton flower]

If I wasn't a sweaty poe player I'd be scared of these changes, F to the people who can't no-life

[empty crystal]

Depends on how much crit you have. Can't say it is +-10

[floral cobalt]

Yeah its base crit pretty much

Generally works out to be somewhere around 10% most cases though

[rough phoenix]

ouch

[empty crystal]

Okay got you.

[wanton flower]

"Dying Sun still grants 15-25% area of effect and 2 additional projectiles, but now consumes more flask charges and has a lower duration. With an Enkindling Orb that provides Flask Effect, you can get 3 additional projectiles and when combined with the Pathfinder Ascendancy (or items) and some passive skills that can become 4 additional projectiles relatively easily."

This is sweet, though

[rough phoenix]

thats gotta be painful for the speedy boys

[floral cobalt]

Thats kinda a buff for AOE overlapping lol

[empty crystal]

Dying sun change is kinda unexpected yeah.

[floral cobalt]

im guessing thats going to be a global flask chance

change*

not making previous bottled legacy.

[empty crystal]

I'd like that I guess.

[wanton flower]

"Poison
Poison now inherently deals 50% more damage."

facepalm

[rough phoenix]

no onslaught on raider ascendancy anymore

based

[wanton flower]

Ah wait, thats outgoing poison damage, not incoming

[empty crystal]

I expected that. Raider onslaught + dash was incredibly fast.

[wanton flower]

"As a much requested quality of life change, players can now see the effect of non-damaging Elemental Ailments on enemies and themselves, so you can finally determine how powerful your Shocks are on enemies and thus know what benefit they are giving you. This also applies to ailments applied to you, and the buff granted to you by the Cruelty support.
" !!!!

[rough phoenix]

im just happy they didnt touch accuracy stacking on abyss jewels

[wanton flower]

This is big

[rough phoenix]

and hoping the youtubers dont talk about it whatsoever

[empty crystal]

Not sure what to think about poisons.

Yeah like I could see shit on an enemy if I wanted to. But sounds good to maybe! see shock effect etc.

[floral cobalt]

Binos kitchen knife is back baby

huehue

[neat rover]

are they really nerfing golemancer again sadge

[empty crystal]

Seems like they still want more ppl to play insane poison builds 🙂

[wanton flower]

DoTM weapon change is nice for crafting

[neat rover]

is that back to back 3 league nerfs?

[wanton flower]

really nice for crafting

[floral cobalt]

It's now much easier to apply stronger non-damaging ailments on enemies with less damage, especially on skills less heavily-supported.

thats actually a pretty big change.

[wanton flower]

Wait is ggg being dumb with veiled mods

"Veiled Modifiers no longer count as Crafted modifiers, so you can't easily remove them if you add the wrong modifier type while Aisling crafting"

[floral cobalt]

Freeze/shock could be huuuge

[wanton flower]

now its not a crafted mod, cant you just craft prefix/suffix cant be changed lmao?

[empty crystal]

I think it's just the change to disable remove craft from craft bench for it.

[floral cobalt]

yeee

[wanton flower]

Yeah but the reason you couldnt aisling slam an item with a crafted mod before, was because veiled mods were counted as crafted

[empty crystal]

That's probably still the case. Else you could Aisling slam forever, until non-aisling mods are gone. But we'll see 😄

[wanton flower]

It's ggg, I wouldn't be surprised if you can just block now lol

[empty crystal]

YES

[wanton flower]

for the first week at least

until they patch it out

Bet you anything its an oversight

[empty crystal]

You never know. Can't apply logic or something

[wanton flower]

golem ele nerfed

no longer increased damage per golem oof

[floral cobalt]

"Fortify is intended to be a natural benefit of playing a Melee character, not a primary defence to invest in. Over time we've introduced larger values and more sources of Fortify effect, to the point where it can almost completely mitigate damage from hits. We're aiming for having "40% less damage taken from hits with Fortify" being on the upper end of defensive power achievable with heavy investment, so you can't rely entirely on Fortify. Hence all sources of fortify effect have been reviewed, almost all significantly nerfed or replaced with something that is okay to be stacked."

[empty crystal]

Yeah. Also expected, but sad.

[floral cobalt]

Thats pretty questionable for the fortify change.

[empty crystal]

lmao

[floral cobalt]

I have a large amount of fortify buff effect and i still get slapped

[empty crystal]

Fortify should be defence imho. Wtf is wrong with them.

[rough phoenix]

Ouch

[empty crystal]

[floral cobalt]

I dont think anyone was relying entirely on fortify either.

Cause i have a Max Block character with like 13k~ unbuffed armour, physical damage reduction, physical taken as X element, and fortify effect and i still get slapped.

[empty crystal]

That would be insane. But I feel like it's easier to get damage than defense. So questionable change.

[floral cobalt]

Soo that fortify targeted nerf really doesnt make sense to me.

[empty crystal]

Yep.

Its pretty hard to get tanky. So no idea what they are thinking.

[floral cobalt]

To me that feels like fortify isnt going to be worth investing in at all.

[empty crystal]

Most likely.

[slender temple]

i only ever used default fortify anyways

so im fine with this

[floral cobalt]

So people might just get the base version, go into something like mana reservation reduction or something and run arctic armour now.

Youre gonna need the extra "less damage on hits" for sure from AA now i think

[empty crystal]

I think it's a problem in the future, if you wanna build defense for longer boss fights.

[empty crystal]

yeah something like that

[floral cobalt]

flamethrower trap huge nerf lol

Saw that coming though it completely outscales all traps with extra beam and cast speed.

[covert path]

anyone have a tldr?

[floral cobalt]

"Shock Nova's ring no longer deals 50% less damage. It now deals full damage so enemies in the ring take twice as much damage."

yooo shock nova baby

The patch notes are pretty extensive buf most nerfs are pretty expected. The only one i didnt expect really was the Fortify one, thats the only one that doesnt make sense to me.

@covert path other than that id read notes , theyre pretty extensive.

[austere whale]

Wind dancer and dodge seems to have dodged another patch of nerfs

[empty crystal]

It doesn't seem as bad as I had expected. But I'd wait until actual patch notes hit

[austere whale]

Ironically

Altough I guess quartz flask nerf hurts

[floral cobalt]

"Storm Call's growth has been increased resulting in it dealing approximately 25% more Damage at gem level 20 (and more at higher levels)."

Yo lightning skills seeing some love.

[indigo wolf]

AM nerf seems huge, but I guess it depends on how big the changes to support gem cost multipliers are

[floral cobalt]

"Lightning Tendrils' strong pulses now deal 100% more damage with hits and ailments (up from 50%)."

[violet nymph]

LITERALLY BUFF LEAGUE

WHAT

[covert path]

ok ty

[empty crystal]

😂

[violet nymph]

THEY BAITED US AND BUFFED EVERYTHING

OH MY GOD

[empty crystal]

Omg chris wilson with his smurf account.

[violet nymph]

I WANT TO PLAY LIGHTNING TENDRILS NOW

[empty crystal]

Everything nerfed, that's a buff.

[violet nymph]

IN 2021

[empty crystal]

[floral cobalt]

"There are plenty of other smaller changes to be found in the patch notes, most of which are self-explanatory."

Soo probably a plethora of more skill changes unlisted to be seen in the patch notes similar to the others listed above that statement as well.

Nice.

[empty crystal]

Was lightning tendrils ever a thing? Wasn't that the skill that one of the elder/shaper rings did? 😄

[floral cobalt]

No idea, cause it wasnt terrible 4 years ago but it was far from good, im pretty sure it functions differently now that it did before.

Overall though, nerfs not as bad as they seemed besides Fortify, which was entirely unexpected. Well see full numbers in a few days along with other stuff.

[indigo wolf]

Yeah, sure, I want to sit still and channel lightning tendrils with ailment defenses, flasks, and fortify nerfed <thumbs up>

[floral cobalt]

Pretty much all expected and about on par with what id expect for the nerfs to certain things.

[empty crystal]

Pretty much.

Maybe less nerfs on some.

[floral cobalt]

Ya, some of the traps even got buffed. I wish theyd revert how Firestorm works, but that also saw a buff.

One of my old favortie builds a long time ago was firestorm traps, shit was busted lol

[covert nacelle]

did they just nerf DoT clusters for damage, AND damage supports?

I... was damage an issue on DoT builds??

[indigo wolf]

Apparently, unless they buffed dot multi in the tree

[proper widget]

dots r already really strong, if every hit build is weaker they are stronger still

[floral cobalt]

Ignite is/was pretty broken

[balmy aspen]

RIP fire burst

[indigo wolf]

Oh, ignite was a big one
I was more thinking about cold (vortex, wintertide) and chaos dots (ed)

[balmy aspen]

2021-2021

[covert nacelle]

this is the least delicate nerf to specifically fire burst that I've ever seen

[floral cobalt]

Ive never used other dots but all i know is chaos/cold cant scale anywhere close to ignite levels.

Id expect poison to be pretty decent this league though with the 50% more base damage buff.

[indigo wolf]

Yeah, same. I thought about trying ignite elementalist last league but I burned out and it was so meta-powerful all the clusters were too expensive to afford anyway