1┃mirage-league

[floral cobalt]

Atziri was a very well done fight by comparison back when it originally released. You didnt have to out DPS her, you just had to play by the mechanics. Which made it a good, fun fight.

[maiden coral]

I drowned in the Hidden's mess preLabEnchant back in Ritual, then was able to get by once I geared up once more

that feels good

[floral cobalt]

Dont hit the Mirror version of Atziri, Dodge the Flame Blasts and Storm Calls, kill minions so she doesnt heal, Dodge her Spears.

[maiden coral]

... Dont have curses on hit else you get reflect damage...

[floral cobalt]

Bosses with engaging mechanics that punish you when you make a mistake, that have clear cut mechanics > new endgame bosses, but thats just me.

I think Shaper comes in close second too, Shaper doesnt feel like a DPS race either.

I havent played a ton of Grim Dawn but the small amount of it i did play i enjoyed a lot because their boss fights are well done.

Seems like GGG wants to shift towards more skill based boss engagements like when they originally released atziri which i dig.

I dont like the DPS fights like pretty much most maven fights like the hidden are.

Those kinds of fights also really kill "build diversity". At least with other fights if youre damage isnt obscene you can still kill it over time. If you dont kill the first two bosses in hidden before the other two spawn its a cluster fuck.

[violet nymph]

mana coc build exist. could do it just fine i'd bet

[drifting bough]

yeah, i suppose. But it just wont do as much damage unless you invest even more currency than they already need.

especially with all the new changes

[lucid stone]

Does archmage work with triggers now

[violet nymph]

yes

[fair prairie]

I personally hope they are overexaggerating how bad the nerfs will be. The entire Balance section of that reveal killed any and all hype I had, and honestly put me into a pretty big depression. Making me feel like my time invested in the game was pointless and Wishing it was possible to refund the $600 I spent this year on it.

[drifting bough]

well, its not going to be that bad i imagine. There will probably be ways around most of it

[violet nymph]

I mean, this is them pushing the game closer to poe2's pacing. if they don't do this, the shock to poe2 is not going to be good

[drifting bough]

its just that this league is more of a test to see what the community will say about it and what they need to change after this.

[lucid stone]

I worry that all unarmed stuff is going to specify unarmed melee, so it will be useless for explosive flask

[maiden coral]

True, i hope we get more Shapers and Sirus compared to invites on a countdown

[drifting bough]

and yeah. Poe 2 is gonna be ruthless, they want poe 2 to be a little slower and more strategic. Atleast from what i can gather

[fair prairie]

it's a terrible and inaccurate test then. It won't feel the same if we don't have the gem options and other QoL features. I guess they can see the part of the community that reject sharp difficulty curves at least. But some of this stuff wouldn't be too bad if we had some of the poe 2 stuff to come along with it.

[drifting bough]

well at the very least try the league right? what can hurt by doing so. I think that its both 2 steps forward in the right direction and a step in the opposite but i can understand it from thier Pov

[fair prairie]

I can agree things need nerfed, but I think monsters need a bit nerfed too. The ceiling is way too high and the floor is way too low. They keep addressing the ceiling but ignoring the floor.

[drifting bough]

yeah. I feel that.

[violet nymph]

i wouldn't say it's even a test. i think this is just them straight up pushing things in the direction they want.

[fair prairie]

as it stands there is probably a ton of gems, gear, and passives they could delete and nobody would be the wiser.

[drifting bough]

ehhhhh

[maiden coral]

Well they did give updated flasks

Bad rework or not, i did predict that they're moving everything forward bit by bit to prevent the massive shock PoE2 would do

The power curve would sadly drop more and more I think, but I do hope they will help us bridge the gap to endgame better as they continue to nerf things

[drifting bough]

i dont think it would be a good idea to remove gems but maybe Reworking a large portion of the passive tree could be cool,

[fair prairie]

not saying they need to delete them, it's just its all so awfully worse then the ceiling that nobody notices the items

[violet nymph]

i can tell you right now, this league has been the highest build diversity in quite some time. so i highly doubt that

[drifting bough]

i think the flask update is cool

[maiden coral]

Help us do Maven and Uncharted with past power levels and stuff

If they want us back to 1.0.0 power levels, i kinda doubt mirror tier 1.0.0 can do Maven or someshit

[fair prairie]

ehhh once I get enough alch orbs I usually filter out uniques, I feel like that shouldn't be a thing. there shouldn't ever be a time where you want to filter out a unique item.

[violet nymph]

i'm going to tell you how it is. thats just factually incorrect. not all uniques are created equally. and not all uniques are even created for end game use.

[maiden coral]

Some are just levelling aids arent they

[next epoch]

oh god no, atziri used to be difficult for example 😛

[fair prairie]

some are leveling aides but there is plenty of high level stuff that just isn't worth picking up except for the alch or alteration shards.

[violet nymph]

like i said, not all of them are created to be strong. some are memes, some just exist because someone wanted it in the game.

do remember people paid for uniques to be added to the game in a way they wanted.

[fair prairie]

yeah, that is an issue. getting a unique that is high end and is bad. is just really silly game design. Should feel excited not disappointed lol

[maiden coral]

Delete starforge time

[violet nymph]

filters exist to remove that disappointment

[sharp iron]

I used to speculate that the Abyss Liches were once members of the Vaal civilization. But seeing the designs in Exbidition and the ways the Kalguur forebeareres and "unknown fate" are described, I'm beginning to think that they were actually Kalgurr.

[maiden coral]

Exactly, if right now, say a player struggles with Sirus A8 but can do Breachlords alright

If they make it that the same type of player will struggle Breachlords... How much godly gear will you need for Sirus? Maven?

[fair prairie]

filter doesn't really address the issue, the power gap between these items are so far off that it's better to just filter them out is a little wrong imho. there of course needs to be a floor, but the level of the floor should be a little more controlled and part of that is due to bad itemization.

[violet nymph]

also i want to add, a lot of "bad" uniques just fell out of favor because mechanically they aren't important anymore.

and no. bad uniques also exist to keep the good uniques valuable. since there are so many sources of random uniques.

[fair prairie]

number of sources don't really effect things so much when the weight of them can be controlled. headhunter for example has multiple options of achieving the item. Still very valuable, the ways to achieve it is just more rare. you don't need item bloat and bad itemization to make things valuable.

[violet nymph]

PoE is balanced around % chance to get good items across all of it's stuff. you can tell just simply by rarity of items existing in different tiers.
the more common it is, the worse on average it is.

the thing is, most of the "bad" uniques fall into that super common category

[fair prairie]

that is an entire different issue. A problem that the current diablo suffers from as well. Uniques don't feel very great when they rain from the skies. Rarity being addressed and making the loot actually more valuable would just feel better. at least imho

[maiden coral]

So if its rarer, bad unqiues become good?

Or am i misinterpreting

[violet nymph]

no. but i think the already rare ones could use a touchup

[fair prairie]

if it was rarer they could still be more valuable even compared to other uniques if the stats where made to be more comparable to the more valuable ones

[next epoch]

there's also that "fun" tier of rare-but-still-bad uniques

typically ones which were obsoleted by game changes, or which were nerfed beyond usability -- mjolner and skyforth come to mind as examples

[violet nymph]

mjolner has had builds around it in recent times thanks to inquis changes

since you already need str and int to use it. and inquis now gets crit for you. it's actually had a use again.

[next epoch]

fair, I'm sure you can think of other examples though

[fair prairie]

always found headhunter to be more in the fun catagory. I understand what your saying and those items do have a place

[violet nymph]

yeah, the point being mechanical changes will always play a part in this. and maintaining all uniques at an equal power level also is just not practical manpower wise.

[next epoch]

oh, I mean "fun" in a completely ironic sense. the problem is that some uniques simply have no place right now

[maiden coral]

Ah thought you just meant increase rarity without a stat change
Thanks for clarification

[violet nymph]

like they are already push to try and keep things relatively up to date but manpower wise it's a waste to balance literally every unique every time there is a change to the game.

[fair prairie]

not at all, I would like to see both rarity and stat increases. At the very least put some resist and life on some of the bad uniques to make them a little better.

heck there is plenty of uniques that would be almost useful if they just had some life and resist on them

[violet nymph]

highly doubt that

mainly because rares are so strong now.

[fair prairie]

well i said almost 😛 Rares are always going to outclass things unless they get nerfed to the ground

wasn't personally a fan of all the added influences being a thing. made me wonder what the point of uniques even was other then a few specific build required ones

[violet nymph]

it's because GGG has a different design philosophy than what you want ngl.

[fair prairie]

ngl i don't think they even have a design philosophy so much as a giant spinwheel making choices for them.

[violet nymph]

No. I'm going to be honest. the game wouldn't be made nearly as well as it is. if that was the case. and if you think otherwise, i'll be honest. you are plain out not intelligent.

Dev work on this scale is a lot more complicated than you think. and they've also specifically stated they have a design philosophy they work around. and it can be seen with all the stuff relating to poe2.

[fair prairie]

i'll be fair most of the feeling comes because they are always in a rush. but most their plans always feel half cocked and not always fully planned out

[violet nymph]

part of that especially nowdays, it in part caused by split teams, and having to find half measures to get them to poe2

while also making adjustments towards poe2

[stiff plume]

congrats to GGG for killing poe slowly since harvest removal

[static token]

They very much have a design philosophy revolving around nostalgia and memories of when games took hundreds of hours to make any progress and were generally miserable to play. But they have the rose colored glasses that make them remember them as being more fun than they actually are.

[stiff plume]

3.15 going to have 200 players league launch and drop to the last 50 streamers when players cant progress past white maps

[violet nymph]

uhuh. sure. i'll ping you when launch queue is 20k+

[stiff plume]

going to be a fake queue lol

to inflate their numbers as usual

[maiden coral]

https://tenor.com/view/the-end-the-end-is-near-simpsons-homer-simpson-end-of-the-world-gif-5236371

[stiff plume]

Ulti was one of the worst leagues with the most players league start, ya right GGG

[maiden coral]

Doomsday much

[stiff plume]

Nah

just a realist

@ me when you are stuck white maps along with oither players who play since game is now unplayable with nerfs : D

Ill be relaxing in last epoch

[fair prairie]

3.15 will be fine, but I personally don't plan to continue supporting them simply because I don't agree with their design choices. I don't like the complete flip on things and will say so with my wallet, and occasionally words.

[stiff plume]

❤️

[violet nymph]

How about i ping you when i get to A8 sirus.

[static token]

Not a realist, just a conspiracy theorist

[stiff plume]

Sure

[violet nymph]

as usual

[stiff plume]

I'll see your ping in 5 years then

😄

[maiden coral]

reminderbots would be so nice rn

[stiff plume]

when a8 is added instead of hillock

but as GGG compensation, +1 chaos res act 1

pretty poggers!

[static token]

Huh?

[violet nymph]

he's lost it.

[haughty siren]

meh the changes are probably less than you think just like other stuff in the pass they exaggerated

[static token]

They had a stronk

[light adder]

🎣

[fair prairie]

I think chris and ziggy just like to mock people and stress them out. You could see it on their face the entire stream they was getting enjoyment out of knowing people wouldn't like it

[violet nymph]

even at 40% nerf to end game builds, it's not going to make getting out of white maps impossible.
you just can't do it on trash gear anymore.

[haughty siren]

i mean sure but at the same time your damage lowered so much that you will basically feel like you're on a 4l the entire time unless ur going some op build

[maiden coral]

Badger took Chris's face as being very tense for most of it

[violet nymph]

I mean, i made it to t16's on coc with a 5l. which is only a 3 link of damage. and a 2l of damage.

[fair prairie]

maybe, just not what I saw. I saw lots of smirks and laughter everytime they mentioned people not liking the idea.

[haughty siren]

How would it do on a 4l tho

[violet nymph]

I mean, yellow maps most likely

[fair prairie]

raised floor would make the game more fun, I get why the ceiling is getting reduced but they can't ever seem to do it without hurting the average player. I get the need for nerfing the top though, they are effecting the economy too much. But it shouldn't come at the expense of the floor which is already struggling sense the life buffs several patches ago.

[violet nymph]

which still, is fine. the point is to make it more effort to hit those higher tiers of maps. and we aren't losing a full gem's worth of gem stats. we are losing a lot of power from flasks more than gems i'd bet. considering flasks are much more powerful.

[static token]

And as the usual GGG fix it's now nerfed 5 different ways at the same time.

[violet nymph]

and i did that only with 1 damage flask, which means my build is hurt less than most

remember, the 40% is from all the nerfs.

the less you use the things they are nerfing, the less pain your build is getting hit.

[static token]

The mana cost will likely also be a huge nerf.

[slender temple]

well

i was discussing in guild discord and

we are ok with it but have one and only one concern

the corrupted implicits

and crafted hex/mark on hit

[violet nymph]

the mana cost thing, that's a big yikes to cheap coc builds. you gotta do other things.

[slender temple]

will they cost mana?!??!

[violet nymph]

those aren't triggers

[slender temple]

not in the traditional sense no

[violet nymph]

they apply the curse as an effect on damage

[maiden coral]

This is the first step in a net power loss for future leagues onward imo until they get everything to a stable level that is fine with their vision and is not going to cause massive player losses

[static token]

You hit, it casts curse, that's a trigger

[violet nymph]

this is them ripping off a massive bandaid

[maiden coral]

How i understood/see things, this isn't even the entire bandaid
Which scares me since I started in Heist but

[violet nymph]

I've been playing since betrayal. and honestly i'm 100% ok with these changes.

[static token]

I fear for new players. If the changes are an afterthought to high tier players but brand new players can't progress past act 1 that is going to make new player retention plummet even more than it already has.

[slender temple]

i think everyone panicking too much

[violet nymph]

the thing is, player count has been on the up-trend for several leagues

[slender temple]

i bet the act1 changes will be just fine

in fact might be a buff imho

if enemies move faster means i can gather them quick and kill them faster

and get xp and progression faster

zombie sprinters i am coming for you

[static token]

League start numbers are going up, they are getting more and more reach with advertising. Player retention is going down last I saw.

[maiden coral]

I'm not too worried with act1 changes, I'm worried about the implications of damage nerfs on endgame and budget builds people

[slender temple]

they did this in 3.9 too iirc

they made all bosses have more life etc

[violet nymph]

yup

[slender temple]

and alot of jank builds just hit a wall

[violet nymph]

and literally the next league people adjusted

[slender temple]

yep

[midnight phoenix]

retention is pretty much the same as it's always been tbh

[slender temple]

well the next league was the best league ever hahahahaha

3.10

[maiden coral]

Deli?

[slender temple]

yes

[midnight phoenix]

best league ever is a strong phrase lul

[slender temple]

tehy aren't gonna top that for a while

[midnight phoenix]

certainly didnt have the best balance thats for fucking sure

[violet nymph]

I'd say it was really damn good.

it just was unplayable on low end machines

[slender temple]

you mean slide show players

[midnight phoenix]

delirium definitely had its share of issues lul

[maiden coral]

I haven't been with the 3.8 - 3.9 - 3.10 changes (3.12 person here) so I can't comment on that
Just gotta wait and see how much this compares to that one ig

[violet nymph]

deli took my old pc down to crash town over and over, when prior to that, i was fine.

[slender temple]

3.13 was kind of awesome

[midnight phoenix]

u ask anybody trying to figure out what was or wasnt going to get nerfed in about week 2 whether they thought ppl were going to rate delirium highly lul

[maiden coral]

Though once again, i could see it drop more and more in 3.16 onwards

[midnight phoenix]

when everybody screaming because harold got nerfed mid league

[slender temple]

people still making aurastackers

[violet nymph]

yup

aurastackers have been hit 3 times now. and still going

[slender temple]

30 ex gets you 3500 es and 15m dps . its not great but its still accessible

[midnight phoenix]

i like that ppl are still making aura stacker in 3.14

[slender temple]

on tuesday we get the patch notes

[midnight phoenix]

its an incentive for me to play trade league

[slender temple]

July 19 - Ultimatum League Ends at 3pm (PDT).
July 19 - 3.15 Private Leagues Are Now Available.
July 19 - 3.15 Balance Manifesto.
July 20 - Patch Notes, Item Filter and Passive Tree Information```

then we'll see wahts what

[maiden coral]

16 and 17 tho

[violet nymph]

tbf, that 3500 es is also hella quick recharge wise

[midnight phoenix]

since theres always this percentage of people with more money than brainpower

its the greatest

[slender temple]

16 and 17 are just write-offs for battle royale stuff

imho

[maiden coral]

legit? I'm on Flask system preview

[slender temple]

thats all the eyes were.

i hope im wrong

[maiden coral]

I can't imagine there's more to show that you can't see by hopping in a game or two

[slender temple]

yeah

thats it its just that is going on

[floral cobalt]

ive never done or heard of battle royal mode til now but i was gone 4 years soo no surprise there lol

[slender temple]

they didnt tell us anythign coming tommorrow right

[maiden coral]

Ward and Flasks maybe

[slender temple]

we know how ward works

[floral cobalt]

I think the PVP mode we had back in the day was called cutthroat ?

[slender temple]

it reduces hits and recharges after 5 sec

like a worse energy shield

[maiden coral]

How to scale ward beyond just the gear

[slender temple]

oh

OH there might be some stuff on tree

yeah good point

oh that will be pain

[fair prairie]

i just hope if the pvp stuff sticks around they don't start balancing the game around it too. I hate it when games do that crap. pvp is fun, but don't let it effect the real game.

[maiden coral]

Eh, they didn't exactly tell us on Ritual's stream what the two [redacted] were, we had to ask them nonstop

[slender temple]

what was it they didnt tell us

[maiden coral]

Deep dive on Ward and Flasks, then manifesto to show us what is nerfing

Mmm Atlas Passives and... fuck i can't recall

[slender temple]

oh yeah

sunday wil be little nibble before the nerfening on mon/tuesday

[floral cobalt]

Wards gonna be underrated imo, thats just my opinion though.

[fair prairie]

i don't understand ward. just seems like weak ES to me.

[floral cobalt]

I used the 1000 Absorption Ghastly Theatre shield all league on my Trapper.

[maiden coral]

wonder why they gave dodge builds another layer

[floral cobalt]

I wouldnt think of it as ES.

[slender temple]

cuz their defenses were kind of dodgy

[fair prairie]

ES absorbs damage on 1 to 1 ratio right? Isn't that what ward is?

[slender temple]

yep

its like a 2nd ES pool

that isnt affected by all the ES stuff

unless you use that new hat

[floral cobalt]

Yes, but it doesnt absorb damage.

So if you had ES and ward it takes from ward first.

Its essentially raw EHP

[maiden coral]

someone pointed out it doesn't work with degens and floor effects

[slender temple]

yeah those aren't hits

[fair prairie]

so it's just another layer of ES... seems a little redundant to me

[violet nymph]

ward is like the aegis skills

[floral cobalt]

Try out one of the Aegis shields and youll see what i mean

[slender temple]

yeah

[violet nymph]

but global damage

[slender temple]

the hat has some CDR on it

[floral cobalt]

The Aegis is on a 10 second CD too and it feels like its always up on a dodge/ev char

[next epoch]

except the aegises absorb, like, 1000 damage

[slender temple]

and you can get some on belt and boots pretty easily

so maybe it can be "ok"

[fair prairie]

eh don't mind me, I'm just depressed so prolly little extra grumpy about the changes lol

[floral cobalt]

Yeah i mean well just have to see how ward scales really.

It could be shit but it could be very good.

5 seconds is also half the refresh timer comparatively to the aegis shell buffs to and the modifier to the duration can be affected

[next epoch]

the values we saw in the reveal looked really bad, but maybe there's better ones out there

[fair prairie]

it's probably good, I just don't understand how it's different from ES, why have that when you could just scale ES higher. scaling both would split your investment, unless you hit some sort of soft cap on ES I suppose

[floral cobalt]

So even if the amounts are a bit lower those secondary modifier values could make it very good

[slender temple]

well some of them were crafting bases

you have to assume the ward bases will have ward % +# mods

available

[maiden coral]

If you have no block/dodge/ev, you're never seeing ward again during a messy encounter like ritual/ultimatums

[slender temple]

if you could get 5000 ward with 1-2 seconds CD

it becomes non negligble

im sure someone will do it

[maiden coral]

You have to not get hit for the recharge right

[floral cobalt]

the wards shown are on low level items.

[next epoch]

and there was that interesting unique helm that made ES modifiers apply to ward

[slender temple]

its not ES

so getting hit shouldnt matter

[floral cobalt]

besides the helmet which isnt quality

[slender temple]

now what is the interaction with agnostic

[floral cobalt]

The level 68 one is at 137 no qual.

[slender temple]

could make for an extra defense layer for a MoM build for free with that new hat

[violet nymph]

So, like i mentioned it's like the aegis skills. it's meant to help reduce the incoming damage by a secondary layer so you get more time for your other layers to recover.

[fair prairie]

With all the nerfs going around MoM and Agnostic is probably on the list of things getting a big bat coming

[floral cobalt]

But the other unique hat is definitely good for hybird gear where ES cant regen.

So turning that into ward instead will be interesting.

[fair prairie]

why bother doing blanket nerfs if you don't nerf. Agnostic, MoM, and ED/Cont 😛

[floral cobalt]

So its definitely feasible to run hybird EV/ES gear and life+dodge/ev based. Turn that ES into Ward to tank huge hits instead since most the time when fighting while life with ES the ES cant regen

unless youre using something like ghostreaver

[prisma lagoon]

is the BR gateway-based

[fair prairie]

and auras, tbh aurabots need hit hard. group play takes on too significant of a role for damage increases. If they balance around that, auras should be the first thing to nerf

[prisma lagoon]

like only players from the same gateway can enter into a lobby

[floral cobalt]

i want to get the pvp reward but i really want to keep playing ultimatum lol

i need to get some more corruption chambers and shit to finish out the league on a high note.

[lilac saffron]

How do you feel about ward?

@prisma lagoon its server based

So yeah you can only get people from the gateway you are logged in

[grave valve]

"We've also made massive balance changes to make Path of Exile more challenging, including a full rework of the flask system" oop

[lime oxide]

definitely not nerf everything player and buff monsters

[grave valve]

eh

there's also significant QoL issues they refuse to address in any meaningful sense so that's hardly a problem in comparison

ward just looks like energy shield tbh

[ocean narwhal]

The design philosophy that GGG has is kind of bizarre

Like ok, I agree, power creep was bad and the game was turning into zoom zoom clearspeed flask pianoing

But like a lot of content is reliant on doing loads of maps to have even a small chance of gaining access to the content you want.

It's this weird meta of "going too fast is bad" but also the only way to see a lot of the content reasonably is to clear maps as fast as possible.

[north dragon]

the new slam totem looks pretty cool

but i like the new behead support

[violet nymph]

new behead support looks hella bad

ngl

[rocky nebula]

Terrible take: make the game more complicated but also make it harder to play

[ocean narwhal]

The issue arises where the core zappy blasty stabby gameplay meets the map management metagame

Maximizing the latter involves making the former quick and easy

[rocky nebula]

If they're trying to make the game slower, they should reduce the number of one shot abilities certain mechanics and enemies have

[ocean narwhal]

basically that yeah

Reacting to a lot of endgame content isn't doable with player skill alone, you have to plan out how you deal with them in advance

Be that flask pianoing or no

[rocky nebula]

I find it funny how Chris says "we love the creativity of our players, so we're putting more restrictions on said creativity"

[ocean narwhal]

Restrictions themselves aren't necessarily a problem

[rocky nebula]

Idk, it just seems like over-nerfing things

[violet nymph]

I'm going to say it again. This is just them pushing the game closer to the state that PoE2 is going to be in meta wise.

it's why it feels like over-nerfing. because they are pushing towards a different goalpost then balancing for things as they have been.

[rocky nebula]

I wouldn't mind a super slow and different meta game, but only if that's POE 2

[ocean narwhal]

But if you slow down the base gameplay, you're slowing down the map gameplay too. Which already seems balanced for faster clearspeeds.

[rocky nebula]

I've just gotten so used to zip zap, zoom zoom in the current POE that this seems very drastic

[violet nymph]

do remember poe1 and poe2 are going to be sharing the same endgame

which is why this change is such a drastic nerf. they are pushing it to the goal of poe2's focus. pushing poe1 and poe2 to the same endpoint

[ocean narwhal]

They're going to have to revamp the mapping system entirely if they intend to keep things slower

[rocky nebula]

I just hope GGG's definition of fun is at the very least similar to the average player's definition of fun

[maiden coral]

hope it doesn't mean 300h time investments when they're finally done with the power drop leagues

[rocky nebula]

You're not gonna keep your game alive just by catering to the spreadsheet warriors

Even if the game presents itself as "the hardcore ARPG"

[whole pebble]

Spreadsheets make the world go round

[ocean narwhal]

There's a lot of optimizations you can do for maps though to be fair. Like why do all maps have to be equal in size and risk? You could easily split them into Lesser/Greater maps and have them interact in weird ways

[rocky nebula]

I'm just saying, the average player is someone who comes home from work, tired and wants to have some fun playing a game they're familiar with.

If they wanna completely demolish the base and start from scratch, there's always the option of a sequel

[ocean narwhal]

Like have a map with two bosses in different arenas, or have optional objectives and alt win conditions which influence the next map to be dropped so that it's easier to target farm

[rocky nebula]

But I get that POE 2 will be a "transition" rather than a completely separate game

[violet nymph]

I think you miss the fact that the game has always been predicated on the fact that there are sweeping, drastic changes every league. and it's just this time the scope is wider than usual.
and they are doing the sequal. that's exactly what poe2 is. They are just also bringing along poe1 with it.

instead of having to rebuild everything they are only rebuilding the things that need to be rebuilt.

[maiden coral]

They're testing how far they can undo the powercreep, while updating everything up to speed

Expect the next leagues to be no different

[whole pebble]

I think the way in which the Devs see "fun" being delivered through their game is much more about solving the challenges of a genuinely difficult game world, hence why PoE has always been a game that casual players don't get far in

[ocean narwhal]

but yeah tldr my take is that if you make the base game slower -> it's going to be slower to farm maps, so it makes sense that you'd have to do less maps to access more content in order to keep that balanced

[violet nymph]

sure, but give the changes made now time to settle first. to see how much less needs to be done.

[rocky nebula]

Make game slower = Reduce trash rain
my only request

Make loot actually valuable

[violet nymph]

get a better loot filter. also, they are actually working on this. it's something they've been working on for poe2

[maiden coral]

It's in preparation for PoE2: It's gonna be slower but given new life, they're slowly moving us down to the level they want us to be in
More and more systems will be revamped, like Ritual: Mechanics, Ultimatum: Heists, Expedition: Flasks

Loot (and hopefully crafting) will be done one day I hope

[rocky nebula]

instead of a literal game performance issue

[violet nymph]

They've explicitly stated they are working on improving the quality of loot across the board. also removing a ton of shit bases etc.

[rocky nebula]

I have a good filter, but one incursion that drops 100 trash white items makes the game render those 100 trash white items

[ocean narwhal]

Like there's only one solution to one of the bigger problems you encounter in endgame
finding "new content" is the problem and the only solution is to optimize your build so that you go faster

That's a boring solution tbh

[violet nymph]

part of why they drop so many trash white items, is so there is a chance to have the good bases drop as well. part of why they are trying to cull item base types for poe2

[rocky nebula]

I hope so

[violet nymph]

but also part of why the bad bases drop is cuz some of them are useful.

like the low tier bows for spellcrafters to make spell bows with

[rocky nebula]

I sound like the ashes of a broken record, but I would rather have a boss drop 2 to 3 decent items worth picking up and keeping/selling, rather than 20 white items, 10 blue, 5 rare and maybe 1 unique that isn't dogshit

[austere geyser]

dead game :sadge:

[rocky nebula]

dead game

[violet nymph]

Well, we'll likely never go that far. but it'll be better than it is now. cuz at least base types will be interesting

[austere geyser]

who ever wanted campaign being harder and longer

[whole pebble]

But u know to some extent I agree with loot issue, and at the same time idk cos

Loot filters

I rarely ever see bad bases anwiays

So

Idk wtf thats gona help with

[violet nymph]

when they finally change bases to be actually interesting, and fewer of them, the performance issues will be solved. that's my big issue with the huge piles of useless trash items.

[whole pebble]

Thats true, I forget that the game does actual render the ingame models of trash loot even if i filter them off

[rocky nebula]

Well, let's hope this league will actually be fun and not require a spreadsheet the moment you get into the coast

[violet nymph]

I mean, it's another risk/reward mechanic. They really like those this year. and seeing where the line they can push players to is.

[rocky nebula]

I don't mind going on the wiki or tradesites, but I'm not gonna open MS Excel to play a video game

[whole pebble]

I think the people who use spreadsheets to optimise currency or whatever are also having fun while doing it .--.

[violet nymph]

^ as someone who is friends with that kind of guy. he def is having fun with it

[whole pebble]

Also, there are very highly detailed guides for a huge number of builds, where all the calls are done for readers already like

[rocky nebula]

then they're goddamn nerds

[violet nymph]

I mean, i enjoy it as well. but not for PoE. cuz poe is just too complex for me to want to work with.

[whole pebble]

I like complex in my games, I get bored without it :/

I mean, that's why u play poe, atleadt why I play it

[violet nymph]

same, but it's too much for me to do spreadsheets on.

[rotund surge]

Poe is semi complex. Poe allows complexity but you can also clear the entire game with minimal complexity.

[violet nymph]

Yup.

and this is where i say indigon coc go BRRRRRRRRRR

[whole pebble]

Yes but my problem is that if thats the goal, I would look elsewhere

There are other games that do low complexity, way better

[wicked oriole]

have they released the patch notes for skill gems nerfs?

sry i skilled ultimatum so. im kinda late to the party

[violet nymph]

nope. that's Tuesday

[wicked oriole]

aite thanks

[ocean narwhal]

I guess it's kind of like facebreakers in a way

[rotund surge]

There is no arpg that has as much content as poe.

[ocean narwhal]

Like getting a face breakers is relatively common

[rotund surge]

what are arpg are you talking about?

[ocean narwhal]

but getting a non-trash one is rare

[whole pebble]

Not necessarily Arpg, I meant in general, but for example Last epoch, it has less complexity, smoother gameplay

[rotund surge]

But not as much content. In its own way poe is a game you play occasional, for 1, 2 or 3 weeks it has massive content and them most people quit again for months. And you can play the entire game with a non-complex to build char.

[whole pebble]

Well, for my own self, if PoE did not offer all the customisation it does, and the intricacy and creativity, I personally wouldn't play it, I'd look elsewhere

The monster destroying gameplay is not very well done in this game, its too fast, too many screen clutter, horrible performance at times

Really bad considering its 2021 tbh, for me, the creativity the game offers and to some extent the stories of the leagues and chara is why I play it

[rotund surge]

But they are trying to improve combat, thats where the nerfs are supposed to lead to

[ocean narwhal]

Like again the problem is the interaction between the mapping system and the core gameplay

[whole pebble]

They can try, but if they fail, I will continue to play, because PoE is more than gameplay at its core, it has achieved its success with fairly abyssmal gameplay

That was the point of my comment originally, that I i didnt get ppl who complained that poe too hard/complex etc

[rotund surge]

how many hours play time do you got?

[whole pebble]

Cos there ain't much else to it, for me anyhow

[ocean narwhal]

zoom zooms make super optimized builds to clear maps, so stuff like 1 shot mechanics and extremely dangerous traps and stuff were implemented to match their skill level

[honest egret]

soooo, will the lightning beams between arrows in storm rain be hits? i guess so but not sure

[whole pebble]

Idk, I started in Alva league, I play every league since

I did get a lvl 100 char this league though, with Dark Pact of all skills kek

[native sonnet]

Hits yeah they should be

But idk if they would count as “projectile” hits for snipers mark

[honest egret]

yeah pretty sure they wont be proj

[rotund surge]

I don't think poe is complex, it just feels like that because it is bloated. There are tones of system stacked on each other, but I don't think they are complex in itself.

[ocean narwhal]

making the game feel like it's dangerous, like it was back in the beta, is fair enough. I can see the value of that

[rotund surge]

Well, maybe poe is entangled but not complicated. Maybe thats the better wording.

[ocean narwhal]

but I hope they keep in mind that you were also grinding a whole lot less maps and content.

[whole pebble]

It depends how u approach it, game is almost alive with its active economy, massive amounts of customisation. You can spend days planning things, weeks even

[ocean narwhal]

PoE scares people away with its passive tree alone, it's hella complicated

[whole pebble]

Nah not complicated, in the sense that the maths is simple

Its adding and subtracting, and multiplying

And some % maths

[ocean narwhal]

yeah

[whole pebble]

But it just has so many options that it allows u to express creativity, more so than any other game

Well, maybe Sims has more xd

Idk

[ocean narwhal]

but then you realize that a new player doesn't have any experience with those numbers.

[whole pebble]

To be honest that problem comes from the idea that alot of players haven't much experience with numbers period XD, imo

[ocean narwhal]

and is likely taken aback when they're told to either follow a build guide for their first time through, or be prepared to throw their first few characters away

[rotund surge]

Poe is like diving through muddy water, you get confused because you can't see very far, but the truth is you just needed to dive straight down to reach the ground.

[whole pebble]

I wish

[midnight phoenix]

do we reckon forbidden rite can pierce, fork or chain

[copper kernel]

Is that the popcorn skill

[whole pebble]

Dunno but it most likelly can shotgun

[midnight phoenix]

yeah its the popcorn skill

[copper kernel]

Looks like it targets enemies i think

Chain at best tbh

[midnight phoenix]

ok

[violet nymph]

yeah that's what i was thinking

also. i want to be dumb and try using eye of winter in coc

[rotund surge]

@copper kernel btw, will you guys creat a channel for poe royal?

[copper kernel]

Uh

Thats an idea

I'll bring it up

[rotund surge]

thanks

[maiden coral]

good point

[whole pebble]

PoE Royale actually has huuuuuuge potential, like, unreal potential, its so good, but has lots of issues too

I really hope they invest into it moving forwards

[maiden coral]

if they make it less of a race to get a gem at the start maybe

[rotund surge]

Mh, I wonder if the new skill Absolution is a minion gem

[wary stratus]

wonder no more https://i.imgur.com/4aUQ43W.png

[rotund surge]

Thats a leak right? Wonder if its worth to use it on Necro

[wary stratus]

it's directly from the official website

https://www.pathofexile.com/expedition

[rotund surge]

I'm blind, I did not realise you can scroll down, lol

[empty crystal]

scrolling down.. okay makes sense

[rotund surge]

On one hand the Reaper skills looks and reads cool on the other hand it reads like a skill that is super annoying to use

[wicked oriole]

just saw this on reddit and i thought that it's so relevant

[rotund surge]

If the game becomes so slow that you can mitigate dmg because of skill and not purely based on gear, I'm okay with dying fast.

[wary stratus]

😄

I just found something while rewatching the stream that made me quite happy

the info on the league info megathread about triggered skills is actually slightly wrong

"Triggered Skills Will require their cost - some triggers have higher cost modifiers." <- this is specifically for support gem triggers only, not all triggers

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1087702093?t=1h29m05s idk who to ping to update the megathread

somebody will read this eventually I'm sure

[past obsidian]

Anyone has any ideas for forbidden rite? CI?

[frigid venture]

That worries me too... They're cutting back on player power but if they don't also adjust monster power (which also went up to address the player power creep) the game won't just be about players being 20-40% weaker

[violet nymph]

So my thought was a possible hybrid inquis for it.

[past obsidian]

Man you need like a ton of chaos resist

the take 40% part sounds super rough

[wary stratus]

it was designed for occultist after all, getting some good use out of that 60% chaos res from withering presence

[past obsidian]

You have a point

but is the 40% affected by resists

[violet nymph]

yeah

[past obsidian]

Ah ok

I thought it was a straight up 40% life

[wary stratus]

if it wasn't the skill would be really awful, lol

[past obsidian]

How much damage gets reduced if I have 75% chaos resist?

[maiden coral]

down to 10% life if i'm not mistaken

[violet nymph]

10% life

[past obsidian]

Ooof still kinda rough

[maiden coral]

it's pain

[violet nymph]

that's why i said hybrid inquis

cuz you'd be able to get some fat damage, while having hella regen

[past obsidian]

I don't really enjoy the idea of getting 75% chaos resist in general without occ

I know it can be done but it's a pain

[wary stratus]

corrupted soul splitting the damage across life and es sounds pretty solid too

[past obsidian]

why would you split it up when you are going to take damage on both life and es

[violet nymph]

also corrupted soul wouldn't work

at least not for the life stuff

cuz it goes straight to life

[wary stratus]

you'd need some item to make ES intercept it, shavs

[past obsidian]

i don't think it can be intercepted right

it says there to life

[violet nymph]

it's showcased with shavs

[wary stratus]

actually you could probably play it with ivory tower too

might even be better since mana recovery is plentiful

send all of the self-damage to mana and suddenly it's just a mana cost, lol

wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the better approaches actually

I really like the design on it, true self damage and not just "health sacrifice" like on dark pact is so interesting to build around

[ocean narwhal]

Stack life and grab divine flesh for that +10% max chaos res

[gray ravine]

does anyone know if new league more clearspeed focused like delirium / ritual or more boss-focused like metamorph?

[wary stratus]

the actual league mechanic looks vaguely similar to blight/heist in my opinion, you can probably form your own opinion from the trailer though

[ocean narwhal]

It's a hybrid

[gray ravine]

fk, i hated heist

[ocean narwhal]

If you put your bombs close to rares and stuff then it'll be more boss focused

[wary stratus]

you basically just pick a path to blow up bombs, and then mobs spawn along that path, that's the tl;dr

you can see what mobs will spawn in advance pretty much, you just have to pick a path

[ocean narwhal]

It's less you picking paths and more picking locations themselves for the bombs

Like I can imagine you can just leave your bombs beside chests and rewards vs being forced to take a mix

[sharp iron]

I got a build idea.

So there's a Replica unique flask that gives you Eldritch Battery during it's flask effect. And now there's Manabond which deals more damage the more mama you're missing.

So you can spend all of your mama and then activate the flask to be able to cast the spell while you have zero mana, and thus have Manabond at a higher power level then normally possible.

[gray ravine]

so you have to spend time outside of clearing the map to place bombs and stuff?

like heists waiting for the NPCs to clear the door or whatever?

[maiden coral]

well, walking and planning where to place your limited bombs yeah

[dusty umbra]

just use indigon / archmage ; you don't really need to hit 0 mana because last few % of mana that are unspent will give barely any increase to base dmg

for manabond

1000/10000 or 1/10000 available mana is only bit of an increase in base dmg of that skill (depending on how it'll scale into lvl 20)

need to see lvl 20 version of it tho

[gray ravine]

That'll really slowdown map clearspeeds...

[mellow phoenix]

anyone knows if u can block the boneshatter phys to yourself? 🤔

[velvet palm]

You can avoid it entirely by not playing the skill

[mellow phoenix]

if u cna block the dmg, its gonna be huge for skills like reckoning etc. But i dunno if that dmg is blockable

[midnight phoenix]

i dont see anything that would indicate u cant

it's an attack that hits u, so attack block should theoretically work, and it isnt reflected damage so it should proc reckoning and life on block etc as well

although if it procs life on block its dumb as fuck

[fossil nimbus]

is getting in group play hard? 😄

[barren crescent]

Trypanon CoC shall rise

[hasty perch]

I hope they change the wording on archmage

It used to not being able to support triggered skills but thats because they cost no mana

[maiden coral]

None yet

Same I cant make functional builds either 😔

[dusty umbra]

might be something to do with arcane tag

[rotund surge]

just keep playing builds, for some time, that relay on the same layers of defence and you will see that its not that complicated

[maiden coral]

It's hard to gauge when you've finally landed on something doable

[ocean narwhal]

that's mostly due to your mindset at this point imo

[maiden coral]

I've modified stuff I played a tad but the one time I tried something on my own it was a flop 😆
Granted it was dumb for me to not put it thru #1┃build-planning or #build-fixing to figure out if it even was viable in theory

[ocean narwhal]

Good builds are difficult to figure out if you're new, but experimentation is key

[rotund surge]

I don't agree with that statement and at the same time agree. Because it depends on what you mean with "finally landed something doable". When I first hit a build where I thought "I can do the entire game with this build" I knew when I landed that build. If you are talking about incremental improvements than I agree.

[ocean narwhal]

I might try Kinetic blast miner this league but I dunno

I did a miner back in ritual

[gray zealot]

the new storm arrow will be cool

i think it would work well as mines too

since its not aoe bound like toxic rain

[ocean narwhal]

Storm arrow is interesting, I'm not sure how it'll play out

Storm arrow ballistas

[gray zealot]

oh looks like i misunderstood the skill

the lightning does bounce between arrowa

and it is aoe

do each arrow shoot 1 beam then or can they shoot all 4 if there are enough arrows nearby

[rotund surge]

says on the skill: "Fires a Beam of Lightning to another arrow near it"

[gray zealot]

many of the new spells will be interesting to try with mines

[gray zealot]

yeah that makes it sound pretty bad, still need to see the spread on the arrows if they drop where u aim or around it

[maiden coral]

Ok so puling from my 3.13 failure - I wanted to make CrackLance a thing, slapped MoM on it if I'm not mistaken and Sigil of Power and FortifyShieldCharge
It was not doing hot lmao

It's nice to slap PoBs around but time to relevel a character or get the gear (or figure out what layers work) is pain for someone of limited time 😅

[rotund surge]

it only fires one arrow at a time, so you need to bind it with multiple pro and then its the "normal" spread

[gray zealot]

normal as in toxic rain or normal as in blast rain

because i think all the rain skills behave differently with projectiles

[rotund surge]

toxic rain normal i guess

[young vector]

reaper doesnt seem to indicate how it benefits beyond healing from consuming other minions

[ember lodge]

it does say 'empowers' in the description too i think

[rotund surge]

I think they said that it gains attack speed

[slate ivy]

i saw the immunity thing that is in new league and that seems like reflect elemen on a elemen build.
doesnt seem aal that good.
i get that you want to make a new league but dont kill it.
having new mechanics but this one seems like a bad one.

[wary stratus]

@fallen marsh if you or another subreddit mod is able to update the 3.15 megathread, the current info about triggered spell costs is oversimplified to the point of being wrong currently and it's causing confusion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT_aoGoMm50&t=1918s

[wary stratus]

one thing I found a bit offputting during the stream was the comment chris made about how the chinese version of the game only has the trade market and they "really want our trade system instead" -- that's just not true and it's really, really easy to verify

I can understand if they don't want to do the same thing here, but the system absolutely exists already in Tencent's version of the game

Chris: "It's also worth noting that for those who look at the console or chinese versions, they have the trade market and say 'we really want that' bear in mind that those players are looking at the system on the Path of Exile trade site and saying 'we really want that one instead', so there are pros and cons to both systems, and we do not intend to merge the two together to make an instant trade kind of thing"
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1087700072?t=2h36m30s

See:
https://poe.game.qq.com/trade
https://www.huya.com/g/427
https://puu.sh/HWMpG/375a9eab45.png

[maiden coral]

They wanted our trade search site I think

[wary stratus]

they literally have it dude, lol

I linked their trade website

they also have the in-game trading system used on consoles

[maiden coral]

Ah 😅
well thats... pretty ass then

[wet plaza]

Do they think ours is fully automatic

[wary stratus]

I have no idea what chinese players think global players have in PoE for trading

I do know that in the past they only had the console trading style system, and complained a lot about it

leading to tencent implementing both systems

[violet nymph]

I was surprised to hear it too. As a new player I just assumed there was no auction house because there are 10^50 item combos or whatever

[still saddle]

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't china have to pay for stash tabs every league (or something like that)?

would much rather keep what we have instead of that

[pearl prairie]

They do

[maiden coral]

goodlord

[wooden zephyr]

Chinese poe sounds like a fucking nightmare

[covert crag]

chinese games very commonly have pay aspects that we would just outright hate lol

i've never understood how it stays sustainable

[pearl prairie]

They have good things tho, like way better website, better for new players, auto loot pets(kind of), better mtx, (if someones likes gacha :p),

[hasty perch]

Because its in their culture

[maiden coral]

How so 😮

[hasty perch]

Here we often look down on people who P2W

In china they dont

[maiden coral]

ah

[hasty perch]

Its like iphones, its about status

[maiden coral]

if poe was a p2w i would not have touched it

[slow lake]

some skills lags less with mtx so it kinda is p2w 🙂

[hasty perch]

If we go this route

Its p2w because bad hardware cripples you

[slow lake]

even good harware cripples you

or can cripple you

you never know

[simple vale]

Just watched announcement

I wanted to see Sirius for the first time in this league, but I guess it won't work out

[devout osprey]

DONT LOSE HOPE, I BELIVE

[light adder]

Yes, maybe bellatrix didn´t kill him, we don´t really know how the veil works

[barren crescent]

I'm fairly confident that everyone who plays on weekly basis can reach Sirus during 3months

[storm rose]

blade trap looks good but it scales off of weapon damage, wondering if i can be league starts viable

[rotund surge]

The nerfs are good because they can lead to better game play (no promisse that it will happen just that it could) but the problem is that they incrementally nerf stuff and not do it in one big swoop.

[dreamy spear]

Was anything said about whether or not spellslinger would fall under the trigger skill adjustments coming with 3.15?

[hasty perch]

Its a trigger

So there s no reason it s exempted

Slinger kinda dead for campain tbh

[dreamy spear]

Yeah, I guess that's logical. Just pretty rough to pay mana costs if you're reserving a lot of mana

[hasty perch]

Only good part is you can now link arcane surge and inspiration to it directly

[wet plaza]

1h per week go

[dreamy spear]

Back to the drawing board, I guess. But will probably just wait for patch notes before theory crafting something

[daring mantle]

battlemage cry seems sick

lightning wildstrike + Arc

[ember lodge]

It really does, I love the spell trigger.

[daring mantle]

and the fact it gives u battlemage

you can leapslam and activate a spell

new auto bomber builds 😮

[hasty perch]

I wonder how it works with multiple skills

As in spells

[daring mantle]

apparently there is a CD

so it might get complicated

[ember lodge]

Yeah its a warcry, so it has a cd.

[hasty perch]

Could use it with the instant battlecry keystone and use utility spells

[ember lodge]

I plan to use it with dom blow triggering absolution. Seems a match made in heaven.

[daring mantle]

oh shit what about like immortal call

theres gonna be some cool stuff

that new banner looks strong af too

[hasty perch]

Could see some ice crash ice nova with the unique cold axe

Or even indigon shenanigans

To boost attack damage to silly levels

Between battlemage s flat and indigon %

[daring mantle]

ya that would be nice

[floral cobalt]

helix is gonna be nutty in indoor maps

its like spectral throw and spark had a baby

and that baby is phys damage with high multiplier.

should be more news the coming days too, dont think theyve posted anything yet today however

[timid geyser]

All we got scheduled today is" 👀 "

I'm assuming that is royale

[uneven pivot]

what are the flask changes?

[copper kernel]

nerfs

[uneven pivot]

yeah but where can i read them

thanks

[wanton flower]

Is it me or is forbidden rite going to have quite low damage even with 10k es?

[lean heath]

GUYS

Did today's announcement get revealed yet?

[devout osprey]

no

[lean heath]

Phew, thank you

But there is one scheduled for today right?

[devout osprey]

yes

in 2-3 hours maybe if i had to guess

[lean heath]

Ahh, I see. Thank you

I hope it's ascendancy changes

If its the flask nerfs detailed, it would be kind of a let down for me

[lime oxide]

Now that i remember, Fighting Sirus with the flask nerfs would suck.

[pure karma]

was thinking about doing poison with that new blade trap skill, the trap damage nodes wouldn't scale the poison applied right?

[lime oxide]

Yeah, i do mean the chaose blood thing since i more or less get hit by it/clipped by latency.

[hasty perch]

I usually dont even use my normal flasks on sirus

Later on the league when i got several of the less rare ones i often just go 2 forbidden taste and 3 blood

Just to always have something to get back to max health because damage flasks feel pointless on sirus

[daring mantle]

@lean heath i thought the eyes emoji was royale over the weekend

i dunno if there is an announcement

[violet nymph]

I wonder if there's something with CWDT and forbidden rite. I'm assuming you can also resist the self-damage otherwise it seems kind of trash.

Soulrend?

low level cwdt ED high level cwdt contagion. idk if that works.

[obtuse fox]

i was thinking u pair spells that hit a lot with it

get a bunch of life gain on hit with spells

help to mitigate some of the self damage, also you can use cwdt to autocurse

[violet nymph]

just 6 link it and throw in 5 extra skills. no mana, es, or life but all the mobs are dead

[harsh bone]

So how will the expedition mechanic work in maps? Will we have explosives too?

[empty crystal]

through a portal like harvest maybe?

[harsh bone]

There are those books where you go to expeditions. Kinda like Blight maps

but what about acts and maps? Will we have something in there. Like a mini expedition with a set number of explosives?

I still don't know

[empty crystal]

ah yeah.

has to interact with acts and maps somehow. I didn't see anything related, or don't remember

[honest ivy]

anybody else glad they made more risk reward gems?

[bleak olive]

For non-hc thats cool, but i think hc will become a bit more challenging or maybe just forced into some choices.

[honest ivy]

well yeah i highly doubt they'll be used in HC but it is nice to have for normal

i also like how they made the spellcaster one be far less effective with ES

[violet nymph]

Forbidden Rite looks good but idk about handling the self damage with Occultist. Both CI and Agnostic tanks kind of defeat the purpose. I still like the idea of just abusing cwdt though.

I guess it depends on what gets nerfed. I'm definitely excited to see though.

[white lodge]

what are this 👀 emojis in this week schedule? did we get anything new today?

[violet nymph]

pretty sure it's poe royal

[white lodge]

it was revealed yesterday though

[violet nymph]

revealed yesterday but they said it'd only be around for the weekend

[hasty perch]

Its me or is the fat expedition npc esfan?

The face perfectly matches

[violet nymph]

are there dwarves or is the npc kneeling?

[empty crystal]

heavy bones holding them down

[lunar acorn]

The new league should start in royale and only the winner gets to town Act1

[maiden coral]

If 👀 was royale, coulda been
"16-18 - 👀"

Sad though, was hoping for more news

[floral cobalt]

did they release any news yet ?

or maybe the free mystery box when spending points was the 👀 along with the 50 point sale ?

LOL im just assuming but thatd make sense i guess.

[maiden coral]

That and royale

[floral cobalt]

sadness if thats really what it is D:

since that was technically all yesterday lol

[exotic grove]

one BR game with everyone in the league and the winner gets a tabby

[empty crystal]

👀 was as cryptic as it gets. maybe was just a filler, maybe a teaser

so it's just their eyes watching us play royal

[steep dock]

maybe GGG is spying into our souls, and draining our lifeforce to fuel the new expansion

[empty crystal]

they always do it like this tbh

just slowly enough

some more years and we'll be like: wait only 20% nerfs? I expected much more

[unkempt valley]

wow this patch looks like hot garbage. hmm should I play knockoff frozen orb or knockoff blessed hammer or just get D2:R?

[glacial umbra]

def skip poe and get d2r

[unkempt valley]

i think its cute that they think nerfing all damage support gems will make people pick something else instead of just slow down atlas clear

[maiden coral]

you want them to slow down progression? or slow down map clear speed

[unkempt valley]

as long as they keep adding more stretch goals to end game i think clear speed should increase appropriately

[maiden coral]

No they're going to slowly tone it down i think

[unkempt valley]

i get that but they didn't do anything to help us finish end game in a reasonable amount of time. it takes way longer to complete everything now than it did a few patches ago

[maiden coral]

I just hope that if they make us take 30 minutes for a map, atlas prog would be shortened to reflect that new time per map

[unkempt valley]

yes exactly

the grindy parts aren't being compensated for

[maiden coral]

Sadly yeah
This is the first of many 'un power creep' leagues, so hopefully once it gets too long they'll reflect that in watchstone/maven systems :/

[unkempt valley]

yeah i really don't mind going slower, game already makes my hand hurt. but it's the only way to play where there are thousands of objectives and you work for a living...

[maiden coral]

I'm a college student yeah, I also don't have the time needed if they multiply the time to finish things by triple/quadruple the amount or whatnot
I want to put time in, but I have a limit to how much I can give

[unkempt valley]

sometimes i feel like GGG watches streamers and considers that the average player

[empty crystal]

kinda

if everything takes more time we'll probably get nowhere

streamers won't care

[unkempt valley]

crafting is officially only for the rich now too so they'll be fully geared and won't even notice the nerfs

[maiden coral]

Someone told me that if Darkee can do it in 24h, I can do it in the league's 3 months - yes this is true
But if they nerf things down to the point Darkee needs what a week or two nonstop to finish, what does that mean for us

[empty crystal]

we have to stop eating and drinking, some streamer must have given that tip already

[maiden coral]

This isn't their 3.15 plans yes, but it's more or less their plans for when the "un-power creep" leagues end

[hasty perch]

I've been crafting in ssf without issue and I m far from playing as much as a streamer

[unkempt valley]

in patch 3.16 you'll need a diaper and IV to get 36 challenges

[hasty perch]

Its more about knowledge than being for the rich

[unkempt valley]

yeah SSF is definitely the exception. i was just referring to trade league where its not worth it

also in SSF good luck finishing

[empty crystal]

depends on what craft. I can't craft double elevated full t1 something

[hasty perch]

I mean if someone in ssf can there s no excuse for trade players

[unkempt valley]

its not about excuse, it's about trading for it being less investment

[hasty perch]

Its not that they can t craft without being rich it s that they dont want to

Man phone keyboard

[unkempt valley]

its a numbers game at that point

which is why so many people go ssf

[empty crystal]

and yes ofc. I don't want to invest 70% time crafting vs 70% time playing

[maiden coral]

I do have to learn self crafting more yes

[hasty perch]

But ssf doesnt add anything

[unkempt valley]

i don't think you're getting my point: in trade league the things you COULD craft are cheaper to buy with the currency you would use to craft

[empty crystal]

I'd just be more inclined to play a meta build in ssf, which I don't wanna play.

[hasty perch]

Not always the casz

[unkempt valley]

no not 100% but generally yes

[empty crystal]

yeah sadly

[hasty perch]

If people craft for profit then its more about knowledge than trade

[unkempt valley]

unless you are really off the beaten path with your build. i doubt you're going to find cobra lash specific items on poe.trade

[maiden coral]

Just as reference for future me, any tips on generic life (or es) + resist rares, do you just alc or essence spam and hope?

[empty crystal]

They don't craft for profit. They just trade their "failed" crafts

[unkempt valley]

this

[empty crystal]

cause I'm fine if there's only 5 affixes I can use

[unkempt valley]

sell your shit for way more than investment and try again with new base

because it works for someone else's build

[empty crystal]

yep

[hasty perch]

Yes, so I see no issue

Its not about being rich but knowledgeable in whats good to craft and sells

[empty crystal]

Yeah that's most likely the most important part.

[unkempt valley]

you're satisfied with those failed crafts and apparently can kill A8 with them i guess you're just elite

[empty crystal]

😂

[hasty perch]

Did it on ssf so yes

[unkempt valley]

if you're happy with it then you are the winner in the end

[empty crystal]

On some builds it worked quite well tbh

[maiden coral]

You don't need blinged out gear for Sirus
depends I guess

[hasty perch]

Yes

[maiden coral]

Maven and her invites though

[hasty perch]

It just changes the difficulty

[empty crystal]

I thought it would be enough for Maven herself. Nooope

[hasty perch]

But sirus most things can deal with it if you dont screw up

Obviously easier to grab a miner and deactivate the brain tho

[empty crystal]

[maiden coral]

Khar, thoughts on people wanting lower affix tiers to vanish as ilvl goes up? It helps encourage self crafting as its less "bricky" and makes Un-ID'ing rares better

[hasty perch]

Thea very first tiers sure

But not too high or everything is easy with fossils

[unkempt valley]

close your eyes and

[empty crystal]

[hasty perch]

+6 life

[maiden coral]

Yeah ofc
I don't want it to just be T1-T3 life for example, but why do they want us to still see T8 life

[empty crystal]

+10 evasion

[maiden coral]

That's one hope I have for loot/crafting overhauls in the future

[hasty perch]

Maybe changing the weights a bit

[empty crystal]

Yeah just a little tuning on that part.

[unkempt valley]

or make it reversable... oops that's harvest

[empty crystal]

Some ppl said they didn't even craft because Ultimatum gave out great rolled items

[maiden coral]

Hmm weights evolving as ilvl goes out, dats true

[hasty perch]

Also I'd like to file a complaint to GGG for naming it expedition league

Because its clearly BOOM league

[unkempt valley]

i like rares i just want a little customization for my weird builds that ppl dont craft for

[maiden coral]

explosition

[empty crystal]

I'm fine with BOOM league

they can change it

[empty crystal]

yeah that would be nice

[hasty perch]

A shame there's probs copyright issues, I d have loved having boom dude from disney as a npc for it

[unkempt valley]

change.org: GGG must change to BOOM league

[hasty perch]

If it works it works

[empty crystal]

[maiden coral]

atlantis?

omg

[hasty perch]

Yes

[maiden coral]

Yas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN92FZrDDb0

[empty crystal]

may be scary with curse map mods 😄

no more alch and go?

[maiden coral]

curse map mods can't be cleansed

you can't even stay uncursed - the mobs were spamming it the moment he stepped out of the curse area

[crisp tree]

i hope they add a sextant mod or something to avoid rerolling

[empty crystal]

that would be a good idea

I hope they thought about that

[empty crystal]

yeah that's why I'm a little scared

[floral cobalt]

Anyone else been having issues with monsters t-posing since the last patch ?

about to update my graphics driver but didnt start happening til last patch and when i started using the new pack cosmetics.

[past obsidian]

Will storm rain be able to shotgun

Well not really shotgun

I meant like multiple beams being able to damage

If it's like only 1 beam can damage per pulse it looks pretty stupid

[empty crystal]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1733474 1. high prio

[slender temple]

atziri shield gonan be more valuable i guess peopel will try to work it into builds?

[empty crystal]

yeah probably spike even more in price

[hoary snow]

did he not realize they're also adding auto-triggered flasks? Like, I get perm-curses from map mods being an issue but if your flask is automatically purging the curses cast on you, I'd figure it'd be fine

[slender temple]

it might be ok

depending on how those persistent curse maps work now

[maiden coral]

That doesnt solve this
If the curse has a lingering AOE, if you purge it the moment yoj get cursed,well youre still inside

If the curse is not a lingering field, its fine

But then again, with the speed at which they recurse you - this just goes back to needing to be zoom zoom meta

[violet nymph]

the recurse is instant. and warding doesn't have a duration now. which is the problem. it should be like the other options for burning, freeze and the others.

[slender temple]

you think they will do it like the storm prophecies?

so you see a ring on ground and can avoid or jump into it

[idle agate]

not enough ground effects that are cancerous enough? Why want more? And some maps outright are basically 24/7 chilled ground.

[floral cobalt]

hehe cant even see chilled ground on iceberg map

[floral cobalt]

Oh thanks.

[maiden coral]

Gameplay clip on the vid looked the same, maybe its a future thing

[slender temple]

hpoe so i saw the tripolar bear vid and i laughed my ass off

hes like look everytime the curse is removed its back immediately

oof

[rotund surge]

where there any new announcement yesterday? In the timeline they only posted these emoji eyes

[empty crystal]

nope

you didn't miss anything

[rotund surge]

why did they used the stupid emoji

[empty crystal]

maybe because they couldn't post Royal

If I didn't read the hype for emojis here, I wouldn't have thought that they mean anything

[maiden coral]

If it was July 15-17 👀, it would have been more easily understood it meant royale imo

[pure blaze]

New gems looking spicy....

[stuck ridge]

Hopefully with flask changes u still can get a decent enough uptime on curse flasks, or rip temp chain maps

That curse is like already every 3rd reroll of a map

[indigo wolf]

Or they change how those affixes work. Someone mentioned they could work like tempests, for example.

Remains to be seen whether that will happen.

[stuck ridge]

I don't think so

[indigo wolf]

I mean, I guess the point is to make the game "harder" so fuck you, now here's 3 more map affixes that are "avoid at all costs" because you can't counter them

[stuck ridge]

If they make the game really harder I don't have a problem, but what I saw is: u will be doing less DMG while mobs get better at oneshotting u

[indigo wolf]

That's Difficulty^TM

More players quit in frustration = difficulty, ipso facto

[stuck ridge]

Well gotta see how it plays out in the end

If it fails, it's gonna fail horribly and mapping will suck like hell

[languid crescent]

the only thing that bugs me about the flask rework are cursed maps

no fucking way am i ever running a temp chains map ever again

[wooden zephyr]

i think they said they were modifying cursed maps in some way

but i'm not sure what that means

[languid crescent]

that would be nice. theres so much info i missed from the qna because i can't stand ziggyd

[wooden zephyr]

im w/ you tho i aint running chains vuln or elemental weakness lol

unless they're seriously nerfed

[light adder]

Putrid Cloister let´s gooooo

[velvet fern]

do flask modifiers apply to explosive concoction? eg if I have 34% or more "reduced flask charges used" from a belt suffix + a Chemist's prefix on the flask, will explosive concoction consume 2 charges instead of 3 on use?

[lofty wave]

i think that's unknown atm

[steady cliff]

guys, does this make sense? https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/om80if/am_i_paranoid_or_this_really_makes_sense/

[devout osprey]

Maybe they are not back in Wraeclast trying to find what happened to their fellow Kalguurans, but seeking some way to liberate their spirits or something like that

[tall patrol]

What a twist

[devout osprey]

could the dwarf be the rocky thing?

[steady cliff]

makes sense no?

[devout osprey]

u know... dwarves... rocks..

[wooden zephyr]

cool theory

i dont know how well it fits other than the fat dude

[tall patrol]

What's gonna be the meta skill this league

I bet eye of winter

[rain wagon]

molten strike

same as always.

[verbal hedge]

July 16 - 👀

what was this?

[stuck ridge]

Who knows what's gonna be meta

Prolly ED

Since they said, they gonna nerf a lot of stuff

[barren crescent]

ppl will default to old comfort builds

ED, TR, Summoners, cyclone, slams

[wooden zephyr]

I'm tentatively starting edc

[gaunt loom]

I wanna starter absolution + reaper or so

[young vector]

absolution doesnt seem to %chance to cast on uniques on hit so bossing might be hard, or im reading wrong

[stuck ridge]

Reaper looks really cool, but also really underwhelming and weak

[young vector]

maybe you need a worm jar

[bronze cave]

Not sure what you mean, it says 25% chance to summon on hitting a unique?

[barren crescent]

wdym

[young vector]

im blind

[barren crescent]

Reading is known to not be a strong suite of poe players

[young vector]

i was actively looking for it

[stuck ridge]

[young vector]

blue fonts are garbage to read

[stuck ridge]

I wanna see numbers on reaper

Maybe the skill will be nice for big bosses

[bronze cave]

I wanna see the cooldown for reaper eating other minions

and how long the buffs last it gets from that

[stuck ridge]

Ye

[placid drum]

I wanna see how the changes to shield throw are going to be that they briefly mentioned. Hopefully something to buff it's single target 😦 That's been the only reason I haven't played it too far. But I'm also looking at Forbidden Rite too - wondering if it might be something worth using Hydrosphere on top of boss for?? Depending on if it will throw one at it as well or not and cause the aoe damage

[arctic wind]

I'm wondering the same thing

[bronze cave]

probably just referred to royale being there for the weekend

And we misinterpreted that as "there are 2 additional announcements"

[strong dove]

It would still feel so much better if they came out and said that

or updated the post of the announcement timeline/structure

[bronze cave]

Yeah, i'm assuming nothing interesting is happening until we get balance manifesto in ~50 hours

(unless you're into challenge rewards)

[floral cobalt]

Be nice if you could use multiple hard hitting skills like a sword and board.

thatll never happen probably though with this game.

[tall patrol]

funni

[lucid stone]

I wonder how decent reaper's clearspeed is. 🤔

I want to do some jank build with Reaper + Uul-Netol axe + Rallying Cry

[stuck ridge]

Looked pretty slow, but showcase is always slow... So maybe double the speed of the video?

[lucid stone]

Well since you can't really use other minons unless you're constantly resummoning (and you get the less damage thing) I don't know how you're supposed to use the Reaper

As a build on its own I mean

[stuck ridge]

U can control him

It really depends on the fluidity

[lucid stone]

Maybe you can make him go zoom zoom just by controlling him.

[stuck ridge]

If u always get like a second delay on the comand it's gonna be shit tbh

Or rather its gonna feel really bad

[lucid stone]

Earthshatter Facebreaker Totems sounds silly

SST getting a buff makes me hapi

[stuck ridge]

I'll just wait for a mathil reaper build cause he's 100% gonna play it 😋

No way he doesn't

[lucid stone]

Ohhhh did they buff static strike duration?

It's 8 seconds in the Ambush showcase

[stuck ridge]

Dunno

Gotta wait for patchnotes

[lucid stone]

CoC Voltaxic Burst sounds a bit silly if there's no cap on how many you can have on you

Reaper looks like its relocate thing has a cooldown of like 4 seconds :/

[stuck ridge]

Bah

[lucid stone]

Are you still able to have an empty main hand while still having a weapon in the offhand by equipping an item that has too high stats to use in your main hand?

Ooh, Forbidden rite says 'take' damage, so that means it can trigger CWDT :3

[violet nymph]

so, i'll be honest, you might just go shield crush for bossing. SST as your clear skill.

[violet nymph]

remember you've gotta pay your mana costs. so CwC might be better since it's less often

[slender temple]

makse sense. teh fat guy one was first clue. also they re use assets all the time why make 4 new boss models that only 0.0001% of the players wil see like 5 times in a league

[stuck ridge]

Plot twist

[bold hamlet]

Whats sst?

[devout osprey]

Spectral shield throw

[placid drum]

Was kinda thinking that. Only thing i'm thinking about, is would I go glad bleed? Or would I be able to actually run something else and have SST steel feel good for clear without bleedsplosions. Because you'd have to compromise on scaling on one of them, or just go the middle ground of scaling "only" phys (not melee phys or proj phys specific etc)

[violet nymph]

That's kinda what i'm looking into rn. i think the answer is accuracy stacker ngl.

[tranquil aurora]

Wait for patch notes I guess, the said they changed SST to make it work better together in an offensive shield build

[violet nymph]

so with a amour shield instead of a ES shield and enough accuracy you can have 100% crit, and have 28mil dps on spectral if you haven't killed recently. shield crush should be sitting at about 35-40mil range without shotgunning.

[placid drum]

Ya, i mean that's all well and good, but it feels infinitely worse to have to throw at the same pack 3 times due to no explosion clear. That's my thought process right now - especially if I league start it and really rely on the fast clear to get a good start on farming etc.

So my biggest concerns are if it will be worth it or not

[violet nymph]

i mean, 16 throws per second kinda makes that not really a problem

[placid drum]

Also, downside to accuracy stack (unless heavily nerfed/changed in effectiveness which drives other builds away from it enough) is that it can be very expensive as a starter.

[violet nymph]

I mean, i never intended to start it.

also, if clear is that big of a factor, just use herald of ice instead of skitterbots. it'll blast the packs since you have 100% crit

[placid drum]

Ya, we'll see what happens. Really depends on the tuning and if they changed anything about SST mechanically to "feel" better I guess. I highly doubt much will change mechanically, but ya

[timid geyser]

I mean on non-bleed you just use shaper mace for booms.

[placid drum]

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards occultist Forbidden Rite if the shield skills don't look appealing enough after the "changes"

[violet nymph]

the mace in your pob is already stacked, no room for that.

[timid geyser]

Oh yeah, not that build

My thought process was "man acc stack kinda crazy. Wonder if it works on SST"

I came to the conclusion of yes, but not good enough to justify my time actually playing the build.

[violet nymph]

i've modified it some, to account for shield crush, and shield crush should be hitting close to 40mil before shotgunning.

and shotgunning is just 2x damage

[timid geyser]

Also depending on changes to mana builds. Mana stacking SST could be pretty solid consideration

Which should work perfectly fine with shield crush

Biggest issue with that build is you need to use HoI or something else if you want explodie.

[violet nymph]

Honestly, when you are looking at builds with that much damage, cutting something for clear doesn't feel that bad.

[floral cobalt]

mmmm i need to find a good shield mtx

Besides the Manticore.

[thin vine]

i recommend the vanishing dye

works for every gear slot

top 3 mtx for every slot

[floral cobalt]

Trying to find something good to match my Aesir set. Deep ones goes decently with it but ill have to look through all arts.

Mjolner goes perfect with it as well.

I guess i should wait for the 20th though

Cause theyll probably do a huge MTX sale for all MTX like last time.

Save some points by being patient to buy some of the things im looking at.

[slender temple]

get something with blue glow so that it looks like the advertisement

do you gusy think its safe to assume that the reaper won't eat party members minions?

[tranquil aurora]

Pretty safe yeah. The rage that would happen over accidentally murdering peoples Animated Guardians while performing a trade would probably be too much for GGG to handle

Though it would be funny...

[slender temple]

well not just AG but imagine if someone wnats to troll you. and it works even outside party.
you would have to change hide outs to re-summon your utility spectres. but changing hide outs means the desecrate table is gone so you either have a mule with spectres on 2nd account (unlikely) or you have it on same account (likely) whichi means you gotta waste 1 map to hold the instance of hide out open while you swap to your mule and back to get the spectres into the desecrate table

what a pain that would be

it woul dbe ok if tehy ate party member minions in combat areas . .maybe but hten you could still experience trolling in pickup groups

so i hope its not possible

[proper widget]

what precedent has been set for that to be possible

[slender temple]

dunno this is new territory

[proper widget]

i can't think of a single case where this kind of interaction would be possible

carrion golem only responds to your summons, etc

[peak geode]

so, fellas - is earthquake slayer a thing?

[floral cobalt]

dont see why not, it used to be.

Biggest difference between zerker and slayer is damage vs sustain/QOL really. Atleast thats how it was last i played zerker.

Which was a long time ago.

Basically More Damage VS AOE/Leech+Reflect immunity now ya ?

Just looked at zerker, changed a lot in the last 4 years lol but basically just more damage

looks like they baked in some damage mitigation though to make the downside not as harsh

[floral wharf]

Expedition killed poe for me. I can’t wait to take 3 more hours to beat the campaign and for everything to be weak. Plus, mediocre-at-best league mechanic

Poe is supposed to be about clearing entire screens in a single click

But the significantly slower pace..

ugh

[proper widget]

literally nothing changed

[slender temple]

ahve you read the patch notes? because i havent . game might still be ok

[proper widget]

if ur upset that u will have less flasks now, or that act 1 mobs are slightly scarier, u probably dont get far anyway

pay 5 ex and oneshot red maps, nothing changed

[floral wharf]

no I’m not saying that lol

[proper widget]

campaign isnt even a damage race you are just walking to the next zone

[floral wharf]

And yes ur right I don’t get far

[slender temple]

how much dps did your endgame build do in 3.14?

[floral wharf]

I followed a guide like a noob and Idk how much dps

[slender temple]

just a number please

ah ok

[proper widget]

w8 for patch notes and roll a strong league starter ur familiar with, i really dont think the game will be significantly changed

[slender temple]

got a pob or profile link?

because i bet you are fine

all you need is a few million dps to do almost all content solo

[floral wharf]

I’m embarrassed to show it

I’m so bad lol

[indigo wolf]

Mine only did 800k DoT at best but I wouldn't call it endgame. It could kill A8 and Maven (if I practiced her more) but sorting out upgrades above that was beyond me

[slender temple]

some stuff like wave 20 simu, deep delve and sirus might be a bit painful but everything else is np

[proper widget]

you don't need millions of dps you can cruise through red maps and take on some bosses with <1 mil

[indigo wolf]

If I now have to do red maps with with 600k DoT DPS and weaker defenses it's going to suck

[slender temple]

t16 maps die just fine with 500k dps yeah