wiki

[formal forge]

oh also, my other main advice is to try to get as much support from the studio as you can

and that's another reason to consolidate the forks as early as possible so GGG isn't confused about what's happening

[rich widget]

I would like to work with the creator of the other fork. I chimed in on their reddit post, but was basically blown off, although not rudely.

[crimson gulch]

Good point, GGG are pretty frustrating on that side of things

[formal forge]

I mean, to be honest they don't seem to really know what they're doing

they said on the post that they installed "WikiMedia"

lol

[rich widget]

That's the name of the software

[formal forge]

the software is MediaWiki

[rich widget]

Oh, yes you're right

[formal forge]

Wikimedia is a foundation that runs Wikipedia and other projects

but yeah, these types of reddit posts pop up all the time with uninvolved people being like "let's make a new wiki!"

and they never, ever even slightly work unless they have buy-in from the existing wiki community/admins

[rich widget]

Exactly this.

[crimson gulch]

It's frustrating to see lots of optimistic people working on a project lead by folks who don't know what they're doing tbh

things could be much further ahead already - although I'm being stymmied on some backend stuff which is slowing things down

[rich widget]

To anyone from the other fork reading this, come on over! We've been here the entire time.

[crimson gulch]

☝️

[formal forge]

splitting the fork up is the only way to guarantee it won't work

I'm happy to mediate if that would be helpful, since people seemed to have a high opinion of the runescape stuff in the thread

[crimson gulch]

Lots of folks have a personal problem with me it seems, which I can sort of understand

[formal forge]

but yeah, regarding GGG - this is super not-obvious, but most savvy studios are secretly very against fandom

[crimson gulch]

(I sold the site to Curse back in the day)

[formal forge]

and it took me a pretty long time to understand why

like particularly with Jagex (the runescape studio), they hated the runescape fandom sites because they ran millions of dollars a year of ads for games that were directly competing with runescape

and in their view (correctly or not - it's extremely hard to tell), that meant that fandom was costing jagex millions of dollars a year in subscriptions

[crimson gulch]

That plus the community targets a lot of ill will about the wiki towards the studio, for whatever reason

[rich widget]

I attribute that to people not understanding that GGG doesn't actually run the wiki. Or they feel that GGG should do more to support third party tools.

[formal forge]

I think the key thing is to get them to a point where they feel like it's a smart business decision, rather than charity

[crimson gulch]

Honestly it’s dumb not to, they could easily monetise so many of the pages 🤦‍♂️

[formal forge]

yeah I mean, I wasn't even talking about offensive advertising

but once you add that in, it becomes even more of an easy sell

[crimson gulch]

Na, I mean literally through selling mtx on pages

[formal forge]

yeah yeah

I just meant as a counterpoint to defensive advertising

[crimson gulch]

Advertising 🚮

[rich widget]

I believe the table rebuild script has stalled.

[crimson gulch]

Yeah it's ending at the same point the few times I've run it

[raven bluff]

tasteful middle ground: have a module on the front page for active MTX sales and predicted schedule for recurring sales? 🙂

[crimson gulch]

Might need to null edit everything in that namespace then rebuild the table

[raven bluff]

being able to point to the wiki for "when's the next stash tab sale" would be neat

[rich widget]

Can you do that, or do you want me to try?

[crimson gulch]

Could you try, I'm not sure how to automate AWB to do it and I don't want to have to click a button 18k times 😅

[rich widget]

Haha! You have to log in with a bot account, first of all. But yeah, it's no problem. I know how to set it up.

[crimson gulch]

I did that 😂

[rich widget]

You check Auto save under the bots tab to run through the list

[crimson gulch]

Another route is to generate a .txt file with all the page titles (including namespace) and I can run it through this https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:PurgePage.php

[raven bluff]

@crimson gulch also out of curiosity -- what caching layers do you have set up on MW?

[crimson gulch]

Memcached atm, working out some issues with Varnish caching File pages

But will put Varnish back on as soon as that's resolved

Not a big deal while traffic is low though

[raven bluff]

PHP opcache enabled?

[rich widget]

@crimson gulch It's running. This will take a while.

[crimson gulch]

si

[raven bluff]

Excellent. Just wanted to be sure 🙂

[formal forge]

oh one other random piece of advice

cloudflare is your friend

[crimson gulch]

Even with memcached and Varnish?

[formal forge]

yeah very much so

if you can avoid requests hitting your origin server at all, it's definitely worth it

we're at a point where about 95% of pageviews are fully cached and it's blazin fast

[crimson gulch]

Ah nice

Any issues setting it up?

[formal forge]

the caching stuff we did was pretty involved, because you need to be careful about not caching logged in stuff

but i could share the code at some point if you want

[crimson gulch]

yeah that'd be super handy

[formal forge]

but even just caching static assets, files JS, etc

is pretty nice for speed-up and also for reducing your bandwidth cost

we do about 60TB of bandwidth a month on 100m-ish pageviews a month, so I'd imagine you'd probably be looking at around 20TB a month if you recovered all the traffic

that could be expensive if it's all from your origin

[crimson gulch]

Yeah, a smidge

honestly surprised Runescape still does those numbers

That's an easy ~£50k revenue per month Fandom have lost at the very least

[formal forge]

oh it's a lot more than that lol

[crimson gulch]

yeah

[formal forge]

by about a factor of 10

[crimson gulch]

oof

Good though, hit 'em where it hurts

[formal forge]

I'm pretty sure we were their most popular wiki

[crimson gulch]

When I was at Curse the biggest one for traffic was Ark, Minecraft and that side-scrolley game I can't remember

Terraria

[crimson gulch]

Looks like all the mods are showing up, they got duped on null edit so I'm rebuilding that table now

[crimson gulch]

Rebuild script is running again now that the mods table is populated

[analog abyss]

Some minor thing. Should have move without create redirect option. (May be not all user should have the rights btw to prevent vandalism)

[rich widget]

Looks like the mods table rebuilt properly

[crimson gulch]

I’ll have a look!

Currently on day 2 of being tattooed

🙃

[rich widget]

I'm currently rebuilding the versions table, as well as doing null edits on all of the item pages (since I don't think that was done before)

[ember cobalt]

oops wrong channel

[rich widget]

That's alright

[rich widget]

I don't know how to link to it, but try the build-guides channel.

[analog abyss]

just #build-guides but i would say #1┃after-acts-help or #build-fixing may be better

[pure cipher]

(just mentioning it by name with the # in a message suffices, like typing #build-guides and completing it)

[rich widget]

Ah, thanks

[rich widget]

Fucking WHY though?!

[crimson gulch]

Can you try make a change on the page when you save rather than null edit?

Just to see if that does anything

[rich widget]

I edited the page then did a null edit and it duped it twice more

I see that the Fandom wiki is running Cargo 2.2, whereas you have 2.8 installed. Is Cargo just bugged in a later version or what?

[crimson gulch]

I tried installing the older one but it fucked stuff up

But if we null edit everything we can always rebuild the table after which fixes all the dupes

At least until someone saves one of the pages again

[bleak comet]

Fandoms version is heavily edited if I recall. They've stopped bothering keeping up with the cargo versions, probably because of these issue... This does look familiar to how cargo was in the beginning...

[crimson gulch]

I can set up nightly cron jobs to rebuild cargo tables

[crimson gulch]

Noice, uniques starting to populate through https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_unique_body_armours

[crimson gulch]

I've given the right to any user but will keep an eye on it to make sure it's not abused

[grand magnet]

yeah sounds pretty much like the issues with had with cargo in the beginning :/

[crimson gulch]

Do you think it might be something with how the modules are written or just a problem with Cargo in general?

It seems to be something that a few folks have mentioned online

[grand magnet]

no it's a cargo problem

[crimson gulch]

By the way, if you and @bleak comet are interested I'm happy to make you both admins on the new site 🙂

[crimson gulch]

The dev was not very helpful when I inquired about it https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Cargo#Also_suffering_from_duplicate_rows

[grand magnet]

I don't have much incentive or time to do wiki stuff anymore

[crimson gulch]

No worries

[grand magnet]

there is probably a lot of stuff in the archives about duplication issues in regards to cargo

river posted a ton of the issues there

[crimson gulch]

Ah, will check that out

[grand magnet]

I beleive though most of it got resolved not through yaron but rather though gamepedia's cargo fork

I believe there was actually a github or something for it I can't renember

either way random duplicates are something we used to have a lot more and it really was cargo's fault mostly

[crimson gulch]

https://gitlab.com/hydrawiki/extensions/cargo

lemme try something realllll quick

[analog abyss]

from the test page https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/User:OmegaK2/cargo

i saw a lot of base item and unique are doubled in the cargo table

[crimson gulch]

I'll rebuild those tables

[rich widget]

Baeclast in 1 hour

Regarding duplicate rows, I found this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Cargo/Archive_January_to_February_2020#2.4_patch_caused_every_table_with_a_0_in_an_integer_field_to_store_duplicates

[crimson gulch]

Poor Chris

[rich widget]

"Poor" is perhaps not the right choice of words.

[crimson gulch]

😂

I wonder how big his MTG collection is now

[analog abyss]

well, turn out fandom has a lot more extension

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Version
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Special:Version
from the table unsure the cargo was modded or via other extension to fix it

[crimson gulch]

Yeah I didn't want to install everything unless it was needed

[analog abyss]

I start to confuse where should find what link here BTW. as fandom wiki skin is different from wikipedia and then poewiki use the skin more similar to wikipedia . (Abandoned wikipedia editing for a while so that the muscle memory started to wear off and fandom/gamepedia skin was so different from wikipedia)

also i am unsure monobook was the old skin of wikipedia or is Vector is the old skin?

[crimson gulch]

Monobook is oooolllllddddddd

[rich widget]

Monobook was retired in 2010, according to this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:MonoBook#Historical_notes

[analog abyss]

I still have monobook in my setting. So that i really need to change the setting to vector in wikipedia to match poewiki in order to make myself less confuse

[crimson gulch]

We could always roll something custom down the line

[raven bluff]

Monobook was the OG Wikipedia skin. Vector is what they use for their desktop site nowadays

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_of_Exile?useskin=Monobook if you can't remember

[crimson gulch]

Could always be worse, could be Wikia Oasis

[rich widget]

Funny thing about that: People were clamoring to keep Oasis when Fandom forced their new skin.

[crimson gulch]

ew

[analog abyss]

I start to use wikipedia from 2006? Monebook is my default skin in my preference and never changed, but Legacy Vector still not bad . monobook and vector does not have much change except the search bar. Fandom skin is crazy that a lot of stuff need to be show in the bottom right customization

from the setting wikipedia have Vector and Legacy Vector , poewiki in fact using legacy Vector

[rich widget]

The Fandom skin obfuscates all of its navigation into half a dozen different menus.

[raven bluff]

there's a couple of other default mediawiki skins, some of which might be worth trying out -- minerva is particularly interesting

[crimson gulch]

That's the new one, right?

I'm not a big fan of this but it'd be okay if there was more horizontal space https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Minerva_Neue?useskin=minerva

[analog abyss]

just previewed Minerva Neue, they moved the interwiki link to the top for Minerva Neue

While the Timeless skin, move the twinkle and interwiki link to the right. Both leaving two bars on left and right side . May be line up the experience in the phone and desktop (even with widescren)?

[crimson gulch]

👀 https://www.twitch.tv/tarkecat

[rich widget]

Looking forward to Fuck Me in the Ass mode.

[crimson gulch]

Just in time for the D2 remake

Any idea why all these league specific maps might all be duped? https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Academy_Map_(The_Awakening)

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/User:OmegaK2/cargo

[analog abyss]

shoot me dead on cutting the map pool and the maintenance of article

[analog abyss]

It is legacy map. Now the map has legacy version ,which every single new league , has new map series

[crimson gulch]

Right, just wondering why it shows up duped in the Cargo tables though

[analog abyss]

It was decided in the talk page that the article should change to somewhere such as new name space

they are the same map so that the table may show a lot of "Academy Map" , but if the table show two "Academy Map (The Awakening)" then it is a bug

[crimson gulch]

yeah it's doing the latter

[analog abyss]

just like https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Academy_Map_(disambiguation), so that it should marked in the todo list

since Chris just said now there is map rotation and nerfing map pool to 100 instead of more than 160

[crimson gulch]

I'm rebuilding the map table which should fix this

[analog abyss]

and the page history is horrible that it may need to merge the page history back

e.g. some page history go under

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Academy_Map_(Atlas_of_Worlds)

but the current main article is

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Academy_Map

[raven bluff]

merging history is a pain. just redirect all the old series articles to the main article and leave a note in talk that some of the edit history is in the redirects

and re. map rotations -- I'd say, keep the articles around but leave a note on the ones that aren't currently in rotation

[crimson gulch]

Most dupes gone, no idea how some of the mtx got duped https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/User:OmegaK2/cargo

[rich widget]

That table was perfect yesterday, now it has dupes?

[crimson gulch]

Yeah I have no idea how that’s happened, and I’ve rebuilt it

[crimson gulch]

Oh wait, rebuilt maps, not mtx

[analog abyss]

Should Vinifera7 (or me but i am bad in English / professional communication) to send a email to explain the situation of wiki to Chris? He just mention in the podcast.

i think in general it may better release modifier data and gem data themselves instead of rely on pypoe which on paper (Tos) datamining is not allowed

not sure the email is still

"[e-mail]" or not

https://twitter.com/pathofexile/status/295702587066421248

Path of Exile (@pathofexile)

@Saphius Please email [e-mail] - I have some questions.

Twitter · Jan 28, 2013, 1:19 AM

[crimson gulch]

What did he say?

[proven panther]

he wants someone to email him a description of everything going on with the wiki atm and what GGG can do to help, was the impression I got

[analog abyss]

I don't have timestamp but i guess he some sort of knowing the player dislike wiki or feeling it is abandoned

[proven panther]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1115246194?t=3h5m30s

[crimson gulch]

I saw a clip, sounds like we need to email about particular pain points to see what can be done

[raven bluff]

I mean… GGG are active on /r/pathofexile, it's not like they're completely unaware of the wiki situation

[analog abyss]

fandom ownership is solving? (just now too many forks)

While for me i am concern on relying on datamine and player need that info and then Tos is not allow to do that and then some key person (like OmegaK2) not interested to update the datamining software anymore thus stalling the wiki content as a whole

wiki actually "sort of" ok for non-datamine thing. At least

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Trialmaster

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Trials_of_Chaos

of last leagues is "sort of" stuff you need (just missing the boss fight guide)

While you can't ask GGG to write a guide for new gem which it was meant to be written by player but most new gem is lack of this kind of community editors

[analog abyss]

i think a one-to-one email conversation may be needed. Chris don't really want to read all of the reddit as it is toxic. He rely on community_team to give him daily summary

[rich widget]

What are the pain points?

[crimson gulch]

I think the main two are

Access to reliable data in a standardised format

And

Trusted hosting that won’t be crammed full of ads (ideally GGG themselves)

You probably know more than I do what the biggest pain points are from an editor pov though

[formal forge]

oh interesting, is that twitch clip from just now?

[analog abyss]

From dev POV i don't think they like the community mining all the monster data, but i guess it is fair to ask them release all the modifier info including mod group (which was asked by ZiggyD why it is not in-game (along with mod tag), what he get was mod tag in-game but mod group still not display in-game), as well as gem. (i think they still won't wish to release the backend stat_id BTW)

The ownership yeah it is fair could they host it to end the sceptical on poewiki.net, to end people just read but not edit for for-profit fandom

[crimson gulch]

https://clips.twitch.tv/PoliteVictoriousGorillaNinjaGrumpy-WAviCLQF-teGAjsd

[formal forge]

that's an interesting opportunity

this is why consolidating the forks early on is a good idea, lol

[crimson gulch]

Yeah

[formal forge]

did anyone talk to the other wiki guy?

like, the way it goes to shit is if he gets two competing groups

[analog abyss]

it is already a competing group from start if they NOT contacting any existing wiki admins and start to fork out and don't think about inviting existing editors to join

(It is fine to start a totally new team but it is too toxic to follow the drama)

[formal forge]

that's what I mean, it doesn't work if there are two groups, especially if one of them is the existing wiki folks (who also want to get off fandom)

[crimson gulch]

I mean yeah, trying to solve the issue without speaking to folks who actually deal with it would be a dumb idea for sure

[formal forge]

how much of the problem is data being incorrect, and how much of the problem is the ads and general user experience?

because they're related to a degree, but not that much

[crimson gulch]

The data piece is a huge problem, the wiki is out of date because its so hard to extract

[rich widget]

Well first of all, I don't know that GGG has any obligation to provide access to their data.

[crimson gulch]

Historically the wiki has had a tiny number of active power contributors like Vini and Omega who’ve put in hundreds of hours of work on the content

They don’t, but it would solve a big problem

[formal forge]

what is the process of extracting the data?

is it something that's available client-side and just hard to parse, or not available at all?

[raven bluff]

food for thought for GGG: a lot of monster data that's been datamined is information which is fundamentally really frustrating to determine organically. for example, figuring out things like what damage type a monster's attack is doing

[analog abyss]

it is reverse enginering the game file which officially against TOS but no one i have heard has been banned

[formal forge]

alright, in that sense it sounds a lot like what we deal with on runescape

where it's "officially" very scary but in reality nobody cares

[analog abyss]

actually only poedb mined all monster skill. I only mined very very tiny portion of monster skill

[rich widget]

Except GGG does care. They have historically been against it.

[raven bluff]

oh yeah, I just mean in general

[rich widget]

They just don't do anything to enforce their policy.

[formal forge]

mmm, okay

[crimson gulch]

Yeah, GGG don’t support data mining at all

But maybe they give us a subset of critical data, that’s still useful

[analog abyss]

So what should include in email? I think it is fair to ask 1 to gem level 30 data, or all modifier and mod group, which player desire to know it and rely on poedb or wiki to know it

[formal forge]

is that data that's available in the game pack?

or is it not known

[rich widget]

I personally would not approach this as a wishlist. I think the important points are to explain the context of the situation and then let GGG decide what they want to do.

[analog abyss]

yes, they remove a bit from game file but most data still in game file. But it need someone keep on update the datamining software which i think he take a break (or retire) from wiki

[formal forge]

yeah. I'm not really involved with this but I think you need to set the right scope

[formal forge]

If that's the limiting factor I could probably do this lol, we data mined everything there is to find in runescape so I'm looking for a new project

[analog abyss]

or may be wording as player need that info, now they primarily rely on poedb and once wiki stop to provide that info, wiki took the blame , on top of fandom site ownership?

[formal forge]

But in any case, my take is this is not really the place to be asking for specific data things from them

The higher-level questions are like...is GGG interested in either hosting or indirectly supporting an official wiki, that wouldn't run ads

[crimson gulch]

Can you create a google doc and dump ideas in there Liu?

[analog abyss]

May just give them the concern on lack of data that displayed in-game

[formal forge]

And maybe as a very secondary thing, start a discussion about how if they work together with the wiki, then they can add more value to the playerbase by giving the wiki some low-hanging fruit data

[crimson gulch]

It’s getting late for me and I’ve got another sucky day of tattooing tomo

[formal forge]

Basically the most important thing is getting them to feel like what's good for wiki-world is good for them

[analog abyss]

Actually i need a 7am coffee right now ....brain start to not working

[formal forge]

And once you reach that point, then everything else (data, money, access, etc) becomes much easier

[analog abyss]

DM on google doc sent

[rich widget]

Thanks. I'll check it out later. I'm feeling really tired atm.

[grand magnet]

I renember I've done that some many years ago, asked about official APIs in regards to the game data and so on

it would have clear benefits for tool developers, the wiki, as well as ggg (authority over the data, no guessing)

but it seemed like they didn't want that, infact I was told the data in regards to weights and so on will probably removed from data at some point

but it seems the status quo pretty much stayed throughout the years, besides the removal of some things like quest rewards and the tradi api 🤷‍♂️

Some people at ggg seems to prefer to players to discover things the "natural" way and don't want certain internals to be ever known

though the former seems to of wierd argument, since in my books it's up to the person playing the game whether they want to discover things on their own or not

[raven bluff]

IMO, weights fall into the category of "things which sufficiently bored players can empirically determine anyway"

[grand magnet]

To some extend yes, but not really, the system is too complex in some ways

If it's just x is more likely then y they yes, but if it's other modifiers disabling or lowering chances for other stuff and so on

that would be extremely hard to tell

(and then it gets ninja changed :P)

[analog abyss]

craftofexile.com show some craft as 1 in a million. How good a sample size (say 70% confidence , not 99.5%) is to need to spam alt orb to determine the weight of EACH mod? I think on dev side POV the weight should not be datamined, but at least the player should have rights to know ilvl requirement (or guessing by observe the required level increased as it is 0.8* required ilvl?) and mod group.

Gem info from 1 to level 30 is public info, just no one want to have +1 gem level mod items to manually bump the gem level from 1 to 30 and then record it. It is way easier for day 0 build planning when GGG release the info. Instead of waiting people done the wiki 3 months later and then another league of nerf which render the info outdated. why not GGG not release it , but only listing gem level 20 in the announcement?

And the other wiki team do ask GGG to edit wiki directly or some sort so that the fandom (now poewiki.net) wiki team say the same thing (or tone it more softly). GGG would received the same/similar request /feedback from different groups of people anyway

[raven bluff]

Modifier levels are on the official web site, of all places. https://www.pathofexile.com/item-data/mods

In an inconvenient format that's missing all sorts of other information, though.

[analog abyss]

then it still missing mod group, especially the caster weapon that not only elemental damage in the same group, but also minion damage as i remember ? Sometimes it can be guessed by crafting bench

Sometims, awakener's Orb +1 Fire Gem and +1 Chaos Gem, learn it in hard way by crafting a brick

[raven bluff]

Modifier levels should be visible in-game, IMO. Especially true now that they have direct in-game significance, e.g. Rog crafting

[analog abyss]

also the official table does not have spawn weight . At least saying which mod can appear on which item class and which is not

[analog abyss]

It is way too terrible to remove lowest ilvl requirement mod , instead of lowest tier

[rich widget]

Alright, so I deleted the versions table and recreated it to see what would happen. I haven't done any null edits at this point, yet there are duplicates, as you can see. The strange thing is that the only rows that are duplicated are the ones where the page name ends with a number. No duplicate rows exist for pages that end with a letter.

[crimson gulch]

Oh that’s an interesting find

[analog abyss]

But modifier ,some of them also end with number. They did not duplicated in the last rebuild.

[crimson gulch]

It’s not the rebuild which is causing dupes, it’s editing pages

[jolly shell]

Hey guys, I want to invite you to have a discussion and work together on a document to send to Chris regarding the wiki

[analog abyss]

There is some sort of discussion a few hours before and I Dmed vini and iamacyborg what is in my head right now as a wiki editor and reader. (In Google Doc)

I read a lot poedb too and in the past Poe wiki does have similar function for modifier, until pypoe need update

While fandom issue is a main point too

[red bear]

Guys, hello
I understand that you work hard and probably for free.
But its 3 weeks of league gone and we still have no page for earthbreaker support gem?

[rich widget]

You can create the article if you want to.

[crimson gulch]

Volunteers don’t work for your pleasure

[red bear]

its not for my pleasure.
Tell it to the new players who learn game, want to try build related to this support gem. And there is no info about it. Sad.

[crimson gulch]

Well then create the page

It’s a wiki, anyone can edit

[sudden river]

it is in pob which is definitely more important if you are making a build and most likely enough

[analog abyss]

if you mean fandom, no one use it and people are busy forking

[elder cloak]

im seeing a lot of suspicious user pages in account creation on the new project wip wiki, but what do i know? just putting it out there

[crimson gulch]

Where’d you get the link?

[elder cloak]

from this reddit comment https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/p3ca25/so_what_is_the_deal_with_the_wiki/h8q1mmh/

[crimson gulch]

Ah 😬

[elder cloak]

actually, not familiar with how most standard wikis work atm. can anyone edit the user page of any user account? if so, that seems weird to me

[crimson gulch]

I think they can by default but there might be an option to lock that down

[elder cloak]

Yeah I'm seeing a lot of recent creations of pages with cryptic spanish descriptions. just thought id point this out in case there is any malicious activity going on the site https://alexandruh45.sg-host.com/index.php/Special:RecentChanges?hidebots=1&limit=50&days=7&enhanced=1&urlversion=2

[stone crater]

this wiki in another discord https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ozqy5w/project_poe_wiki_an_effort_to_move_the_wiki_out/

[elder cloak]

the invite code for that is expired

[elder cloak]

im trying to learn how to add ward base types to the ward fandom wiki page atm, but im having trouble calling the query function to create a table. are ward base types not in the database that the wiki uses atm?

looks like the documentation page for item table doesnt list ward as a parameter. is there an actual complete list of parameters and ways to add one?

[analog abyss]

Noone use fandom wiki and no basetype was created

I think vini the admin add something in the backend but it is not a full implement of ward as new parameter (edit: ok it works when you create the item article; query code also work , see my edits in the poe fork)

[rich widget]

It should be.

[analog abyss]

anyway since the armor article is not created and the Iron Flask only exist in the wiki fork, it certainly return nothing . (Not sure adding ward need a rebuild of cargo table or not, which no one keep on update fandom one anyway)

[rich widget]

I already rebuilt it.

[analog abyss]

well, i think people can just create item with the base item template and ward parameter in fandom wiki i guess

but the fork still need some work

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Body_Armour not showing the items

[rich widget]

I didn't add the items. I added the ward parameter and rebuilt the table so that it can support ward.

[analog abyss]

And i tested in fandom wiki ES article. May be i don't know how to write a proper query to show the body armor /helmet/boot/gloves/shield with ES in the base item section (edit: ok i copy the code from unique armor list and it is fixed https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Energy_shield#Base_items)

I mean if people want to create article in fandom POE wiki , i think overthere it is totally work, and then a proper query code will show item in ward article over there.

[analog abyss]

Ok, it will work in poe fork once the item page is created (the item tag is wrong BTW as pypoe need to be fix due to the intro of ward make the internal game files has changed) Too dumb to get the right name path of the .dds to extract it from game file BTW and i don't want to upload the low resolution one from cdb

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Runic_Crest

ok after asking zao i have done making the Runic Crest article as barebone

[bold marlin]

can't yall just like, remove all the abandoned automation gimmicks

[analog abyss]

It need 1000 people to maintain the wiki then....there is 20000 modifier in-game

[bold marlin]

it's being maintained?

[pure cipher]

The infrastructure has served it well over the years, not exactly the wiki's fault that things changed drastically lately w.r.t. sourcing data.

Do you think volunteers would be able to accurately acquire the relevant data, manage to input it properly, and organize it somehow that they don't waste work?
And then keep that up forever, catching every change?

Automation is pretty much mandatory, unless you want the place to be only user-sourced prose.

We're acutely aware that tooling's fucked, and what needs to be done to get it going.
It doesn't help if the people capable of moving it forward burn out doing so.

[analog abyss]

It drives me nuts by recordinh my alva temple and check area mod and try to update the effect of incursion room one by one

without automaton and without 1000 people editing wiki , it take ages

So that remove automation it means way less content can be updated.

In 3.14 beast recipe , monster type, monster data, area data, craftimg bench are actually datamined

Just not skill gem and modifier that more people concern about

[bleak comet]

A lot of the times it's just filling in templates, which is decently intuitive and is very possible to do manually by hordes of editors.Yet, it's obviously not being done.
We still need most of the templates for html-styling purposes, so "automation gimmicks" will still remain that a user might think is "too advanced".
No, the hordes of editors won't come and stay. Very few readers becomes editors and the editors we have had has already done their "share" in previous leagues.

[crimson gulch]

We need a PoE mechanical Turk

Do some data entry in between maps

[bitter sorrel]

or a spreadsheet-like data entry screen

[analog abyss]

datamining speed up the update the process so that editor can write something that cannot be datamined. The article for the 3.13 new map boss has not been created for example and one of them clearly a makeshift Vilenta. Just typical GGG, forget to change the name of the debuff and still call it Vilenta's (act 10 version is physical DOT, map version is Fire DOT, so that the debuffs share the same name does not make sense)

[elder cloak]

the process needs to be made easier, IMO. i tried to update Leap Slam damage effectiveness numbers in the table on the fandom wiki, and it took way longer than I think it should have been. there's no reason why i should have to edit the individual numbers for all 40 potential levels of a skill gem

[crimson gulch]

How do you see it working?

Like, in an ideal world

[bleak comet]

Do you know the damage effectiveness equation? I'm not so sure anyone knows the equation, it might just be a lookup table on the GGG side as well so they can bend their curves however however they like.

[rich widget]

GGG most likely uses an equation to plot the numbers for the skill progression, but that's all done in their internal tooling. The equation itself isn't stored in the game data because it doesn't need to be.

[pure cipher]

The effectiveness values often (always?) repeat across the skill levels of a skill, but I'm not sure if that's universal or just happenstance for most skills I've looked at.

Path of Building has an equation for evaluating the effectiveness curve, going back to the ancient times of Arl's PoB I believe.

https://github.com/PathOfBuildingCommunity/PathOfBuilding/blob/5bc010605ff730072da2fd5bf3ade59a87b0720a/src/Modules/CalcTools.lua#L166-L173

if level.statInterpolation[index] == 3 then
    -- Effectiveness interpolation
    if not availableEffectiveness then
        availableEffectiveness = 
            (3.885209 + 0.360246 * (actorLevel - 1)) * (grantedEffect.baseEffectiveness or 1)
            * (1 + (grantedEffect.incrementalEffectiveness or 0)) ^ (actorLevel - 1)
    end
    statValue = round(availableEffectiveness * level[index])

[analog abyss]

Note that there is bug in pypoe that show decimal point for damage effectiveness, it basically need to copy the poedb value or test it yourself to jack up the gem from level 1 to 30.

It just so time consuming that it really should be done by automation

Why it is hard to input manually , is quite a lot of infobox parameter is designed to be input by bot such as the 30 repeated lines for gem text for 30 gem level.

You can just ignore the gem level progress table and just fill the static stat text (x-y) damage effectiveness for gem 1-20 level.

But if you insist you want to update gem level progression table by hand, which I don't recommend to even do it and instead check pypoe fork work or not or discuss with the fork team is there better solution.

Just like this league a mass scale of nerf in support gem. It take ages for people update all the parameters

And for the gem value. GGG can made it non linear so that extrapolation may not correct. Or they can artificially nerf the value in 21+ gem level or just fill arbitrary number in low gem level. So that equation to predict the value per gem value may not correct

[analog abyss]

The wiki 'can' change it back to 2013 era infobox, just it is another manpower driven work and people are busy in the fork . (Poewiki.net version was paused btw)

[analog abyss]

Unless it has an agreed fork, it sounds counter-productive to me to leave some edit behind in fandom POE wiki and then some of them leave in Poewiki.net

So that i guess i may take a break on creating article and only focus on some thing obvious (likes something that actually break the wiki) in fandom version

[crimson gulch]

The edits in poewiki.net will be moved over

[meager oasis]

Please don't post discord invites

[analog abyss]

example of bug

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Barrage

I would say better join the fork team discord for any attempt to try to update the wiki/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/p47ceq/project_poe_wiki_week_1_update/

[crimson gulch]

What bug?

[analog abyss]

the pypoe bug , suppose Damage Effectiveness and the Attack Damage should have the same value and one of the column is redundant. So that the gem infobox in current design was not meant to be edit manually

[crimson gulch]

ah

[uneven kindle]

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Eldritch_Inspiration should be
20% increased Chaos Damage
16% increased maximum Mana
20% increased Mana Regeneration Rate

[analog abyss]

I can't post discord invite but yes, we known fandom version is out-dated

[flat eagle]

Can I get a quick rundown of what's happening? Maybe pin that message too

[stone crater]

@flat eagle https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/p47ceq/project_poe_wiki_week_1_update/

[flat eagle]

yeah i read that. so #wiki is for that too? what is poewiki.net

[stone crater]

poewiki.net is in another discord

[flat eagle]

and isn't poedb making its own wiki?

[stone crater]

yap, in slow step, do you want to join?

[flat eagle]

i think i am already in the discord.

so 3 parallel attempts in total? poewiki.net, the poedb wiki and the reddit project poe thing?

[stone crater]

2, poewiki is the reddit one, they had merged

[flat eagle]

and this channel is for the reddit one?

[stone crater]

nope, this channel is abandoned

[flat eagle]

ah shit lol

[pure cipher]

This channel is for the traditional Fandom/Gamepedia one.

[flat eagle]

alright, that cleared things up, thanks

[molten echo]

Is there a reason the reddit one didn't want to use this channel?

I guess having their own server gives them more control over users

[analog abyss]

This discord is official Poe discord, so that this wiki channel is not specific to fandom POE wiki.

It just abandoned as vini omegak2, me and others moved to other discord

[stone crater]

PoEDB adds wiki-like editing functions to each page and need your help. If you are interested in joining, login your OAuth and get editing permissions. https://poedb.tw/us/markdown

[crimson gulch]

I think with the amount of work needed it’s easier to have a separated server but we’re all still here as well

[analog abyss]

It is tone deaf that most reply is article X in wiki is outdated anyway. Edit it yourself is the answer. You don't want to create an fandom account? Then go to the wiki fork and open one

[crimson gulch]

Yeah, I think folks just don’t realise how much work a small number of people have put into this over the years

[stone crater]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/pb4syt/project_poedb_wikisystem_week_3_update/

[crimson gulch]

Come on bud, that's a bit close to what the Project PoE Wiki announcements have been like, don'tcha think?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ozqy5w/project_poe_wiki_an_effort_to_move_the_wiki_out/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/p47ceq/project_poe_wiki_week_1_update/

[crimson gulch]

come on @stone crater, why the fuck are you copying disclaimers I'm writing on the other wiki fork?

[stone crater]

Sorry, someone in our group thinks that the disclaimer in poewiki is the most suitable for CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 and will rewrite it.

[crimson gulch]

Right but it's in extremely poor taste for you guys to literally be taking content from folks trying to fork the Fandom wiki

[stone crater]

We can follow CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 and find a balance between database and wiki. We are working on the same goal of improving a better user experience.

[crimson gulch]

We are but it’s not in the spirit of the license or of collaboration for the content we’re writing to be copy pasted onto an ad and patreon supported site

[rich widget]

That's a fair point. I know poedb is mostly a passion project for you @stone crater, but non-commercial means non-commercial.

[stone crater]

If GGG wants to hold a poe wiki, does it violate the spirit of the license belonging to Fandom?

[rich widget]

That's not a question that I can answer. I'd rather let GGG's lawyers worry about it.

[crimson gulch]

I guess the distinction would be that GGG would be holding up a website to help their community instead of putting up a website for the purpose of generating ad revenue

[rich widget]

Regardless, I don't think you're necessarily in violation of the NC license, chuan. However, copying work directly from Project PoE Wiki makes it seem as if you're attempting to compete against us.

[stone crater]

I will consult legal counsel for legal advice. The wiki also uses a lot of data from poedb.

[rich widget]

Does it though?

[lusty hedge]

Data that come from PoE mined data

[rich widget]

I would actually challenge you, chuan, to point to anything on poedb that is your own intellectual property.

Apart from the website itself and its design

[lusty hedge]

The design that come from Bootstrap CSS

[rich widget]

Yes, but there's like tables and page layouts that are chan's design

[stone crater]

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Unravelling_Horror

[rich widget]

What's the issue, that there's a link to the page on poedb?

I'm really confused.

[stone crater]

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:pathofexile.fandom.com+poedb

[rich widget]

Your assertion was that the wiki uses a lot of data from poedb.

[crimson gulch]

referring to a site seems to fall under fair use, no?

Which is different from lifting content wholesale, which the wiki does not do

[rich widget]

Linking to a site is literally just linking to a site. It's no different than a reference.

[stone crater]

@crimson gulch before you sell poe wiki to curse, what's license you used?

[crimson gulch]

The license has always been the same

[stone crater]

so you can sell it again to another wiki host?

[crimson gulch]

no, I would be unable to sell the content as it currently stands, Fandom own the license

the content would have to be:

1. Original
2. Owned by me

For me to be able to sell it, neither of which is the case

[stone crater]

if the original license had always been the same, how could you sell it to curse?

[crimson gulch]

You're not understanding how licensing works

Content is offered to site visitors under the license. If you contribute to the website, the site owner owns that content

[stone crater]

rly?

[rich widget]

That is my understanding of how it works.

Ownership goes to the website owner, but the content is licensed under whatever it's licensed under. In this case, CC BY-NC-SA 3.0.

[crimson gulch]

This is helpful to understanding how work is licensed https://www.fandom.com/licensing

[rich widget]

I still maintain that the issue here is not one of legalities, but of etiquette.

[stone crater]

If I disable ads that contain wiki information, does it meet your expectations?

[crimson gulch]

It's not really my expectations, but I would still find it quite distasteful for you to be copy pasting content from the Project PoE Wiki given what we're trying to do

[stone crater]

In the advertising chart, about 80% of users use Adblock/ublock. If this violates the NC, just disable it.

[stone crater]

Any page containing wiki content will now have ads disabled.

[rich widget]

I just want to be clear: We were not asking you to disable ads. It's entirely your call whether you want to show ads or not.

[jolly shell]

My two cents fwiw: it’s totally fine to do your own thing; what does bother me is the obvious attempt to ride our wave, so to speak.

People already know poedb and I don’t understand why there was a need to copy our post format and title, among stuff that was brought up previously. Both we and the community can see it and it just makes you look like you’re pushing against us, rather than alongside.

I found that uncalled for and disrespectful to our efforts and everyone involved.

[stone crater]

I don't think we are on the opposite side. It would be better for players not to put eggs in the same basket.

[jolly shell]

I don’t disagree with that but that’s not what my point was about.

[stone crater]

We are working towards the same goal. No one can replace your efforts and work in rebuilding the wiki system. If you are bothered by the similar titles and goals of the same job, I have to apologize for that.

[jolly shell]

Imagine I had used poedb to populate the wiki with data without asking you. It’s just there so it’s free to use, right? I could’ve done that but I chose to reach out to you and ask if you are okay providing that data.

What you’re doing, looks to me like that, but you didn’t even ask. Again, I can’t tell you what to do and how to post, but I feel like you’re trying to be smart and end up looking foolish.

It would’ve cost you nothing to do the right thing, yet you chose not to.

I wish you the best but I don’t appreciate being taken for a fool (and this is just my personal feeling)

[raven bluff]

..... you realize that all of that information comes from the game data files, don't you?

[jolly shell]

Yes, but I’m talking about the work done to parse it

I’m well aware how it works

[stone crater]

wiki is already doing that, check https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/The_Uncharted_Realms

[stone crater]

How do you think the modifiers table data on the wiki is maintained without data mining, or just copy free to use data from poedb? https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Trials_of_Chaos

[crimson gulch]

The data isn’t updated, which is why it’s out of date

[stone crater]

You know I am not referring to this. At that time, the editor could not complete the affix of the form by himself except for copying the free data from poedb.

[crimson gulch]

My view is that falls under fair use, they’re using something obtained from somewhere else to create something entirely new. That is very different to copying entire sentences and paragraphs.

[stone crater]

oh, great point of view

So you think all the information from data mining is there, so it can be used for free, right?

[jolly shell]

Again, you’re completely missing my point and I used that as an example (what the previous wiki did has nothing to do with me personally), so I’m just going to leave it at this.

What’s done is done.

[crimson gulch]

I think that’s something else, and to be clear I’m not advocating for people to use poedb to update the wiki

[delicate sorrel]

any chance for a solid background box on the sidebar? current readability is quite low.

[delicate sorrel]

having a caching error where the pages dont update until re-editing and saving twice or thrice, wondering if that's local?

[crimson gulch]

That's actually just been sorted

[delicate sorrel]

just noticed, cheers

[crimson gulch]

Are you using a logged in account?

[delicate sorrel]

yes

it seems to get progressively worse

[crimson gulch]

hmmm, cache should update automatically in that case when you update a page

[delicate sorrel]

rn its not loading until 8+ saves and 3+ reloads

[crimson gulch]

can you try ctrl + shift + r

Which page are you trying to work on?

[delicate sorrel]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/edit/Dementophobia

didnt work the first refresh, worked on the second

[crimson gulch]

Ah I see

that's weird, sounds like an issue with cache being a bit aggressive, I'll take a look

Ah I see you're working on the drop bits which might take a little while to work through, the queries themselves are also cached so that stuff will take a little while to iron out

[delicate sorrel]

ah gotcha

[crimson gulch]

you can force a cache purge after you make your edit by adding ?action=purge to the end of the URL

[delicate sorrel]

thats for that specific page?

[crimson gulch]

Yeah

FYI we're about to make a new update post on the sub about progress on the wiki

[delicate sorrel]

sounds good!

any possible way to have the purge cache be a clickable thing? as part of the top bar or something

[crimson gulch]

Might be, it's an option for admin users, let me check if there's an easier way to make it available for other user groups

[delicate sorrel]

oh, prefect

perfect

its there on my end as well so we're good

[crimson gulch]

ah awesome

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/pc04t4/project_path_of_exile_wiki_week_3_update/

Are things working better now with that purge button?

[delicate sorrel]

yep, fixed most of the issues! cheers

[crimson gulch]

great!

[brave lodge]

Hello!
I'd like to ask few wiki maintainers few questions:

1. Is the old wiki going to be removed?
2. If yes, what will you do about old links posted in the internet forwarding to old wiki (under videos, guides, this channel pinned message, etc.)
3. Old wiki still have "official wiki" badge, will you be able to change that?
4. Did you take into the consideration, that google (or other search engines) still have old wiki as the first entry when you search "poe wiki" and will you address that or not?

I'm asking this questions just because I'm concerned that new domain could cause few players to be confused when they search for information, or click link that redirects them to the outdated page.

[crimson gulch]

There's no way to remove a Fandom wiki, so unfortunately, no

Did you take into the consideration, that google (or other search engines) still have old wiki as the first entry when you search "poe wiki" and will you address that or not?

Yes but this will be a slow process, so bear with us

Old wiki still have "official wiki" badge, will you be able to change that?

We can ask the powers that be to reach out to Fandom to have this removed

[delicate sorrel]

having issues with new base types: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Olroth's_Charge

[crimson gulch]

hmm

Aha, you had the wrong class_id on the base item type https://www.poewiki.net/w/index.php?title=Runic_Sollerets&type=revision&diff=1077582&oldid=1077551

Do you want to hop into the other Discord we have for the new wiki?

[stone crater]

@crimson gulch @jolly shell cmon, your wiki is now just copying poedb data anywhere. It destroys CC BY-NC-SA 3.0, which cannot use any commercial resources.

[jolly shell]

Huh?

[rich widget]

You can't be serious.

[stone crater]

Data mining information is there and free for use?

[proven panther]

honestly the entire legal basis for the wiki seems flimsy as hell to me

GGG explicitly states that: Unless otherwise stated in these Terms of Use, Grinding Gear Games is the owner or licensee of all rights including all copyright, trade marks and other intellectual property rights relating to or included within the Website, Materials and Services ("Rights"). For the avoidance of doubt, and to the greatest extent permitted at law, the Rights include without limitation all rights in respect of all graphics, logos, text, images and all other elements included in and deriving from the gameplay and virtual world featured in PoE, including without limitation in-game names, characters, locations and any virtual items ("Virtual Items") and their associated benefits or properties acquired or provided for use within PoE.

the fact that the wiki is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 baffles me, because there's nothing indicating fandom or anybody else actually has that degree of ownership over GGG-derivative content, and GGG certainly isn't licensing anything under Creative Commons

as long as GGG specifically is okay with whatever you're doing with their data, it should not matter what anyone else says about it, because at the end of the day they aren't the actual owner

not only that, they explicitly state that you need permission from them to do anything involving derivative works:

Adapt, reproduce, store, distribute, print, display, publish or create derivative works from any part of the Website, Materials or Services other than in accordance with the Licence.```
so whatever control fandom or anyone else thinks they have over PoE-derivative content.. is almost certainly wrong, because no way in hell is GGG handing over ownership of anything related to PoE, hell they could probably tell fandom tomorrow they no longer have permission to do anything PoE related and get the entire thing shuttered (it would probably boil down to fair use vs the commercial nature of fandom)

[jolly shell]

Btw @stone crater , I don’t appreciate being accused of something quite serious like this without evidence. If you want to discuss it, you know where to find us, but throwing empty accusations publicly won’t do you any good.

[stone crater]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Expedition_Logbook

and all new unique modifiers, poedb use a special unicode char on number, wiki just copy it

[jolly shell]

Okay, I will check with our editors and make sure they attribute it accordingly

[stone crater]

The number of users and demand of PoEDB is far less than that of Wiki, and so is the friendliness of Reddit Mod. PoEDB was once regarded as a Spoiler website by Reddit for a long time, and its exposure was far less than that of Wiki. If you think PoEDB is your opponent, I think you should have misunderstood it.

[stone crater]

If all the information you want can be copied from PoEDB, does GGG still need to provide any information on the Wiki? If poewiki can function normally now, or does not rely on any sponsorship at all, does GGG still need to provide help from the server?

[jolly shell]

Your actions and reactions show otherwise.

[jolly shell]

That is a discussion between us and GGG currently.

[stone crater]

I have deleted my Reddit article, and then quietly observe your progress.

[jolly shell]

I think the support and exposure we are getting is because we earned it and we have good relationships with a lot of community members.

[jolly shell]

Same thing I said to cyborg way back: your help could speed up the process of updating a lot; but make no mistake thinking that we need you or can’t do it without your help.

[crimson gulch]

I've asked editors to not copy and paste from poedb, I agree with you that that isn't fair.

Which commercial resources are you talking about?

[stone crater]

You said that PoEDB’s ads make it a commercial website that violates the NC. But now I don't want to reply about this anymore.

[formal forge]

so whatever control fandom or anyone else thinks they have over PoE-derivative content.. is almost certainly wrong, because no way in hell is GGG handing over ownership of anything related to PoE, hell they could probably tell fandom tomorrow they no longer have permission to do anything PoE related and get the entire thing shuttered (it would probably boil down to fair use vs the commercial nature of fandom)
@proven panther this is generally true - they've caved when IP owners have withdrawn permission

however I think people here have a slightly warped view of who CC-BY-SA applies to. fandom has no ownership rights over any of the content hosted on the wikis - they're merely allowed to use it because the editors (who by law are the copyright holders of anything they write) have licensed it under the CC license, which lets fandom host it in perpetuity

but fandom has isn't the copyright holder, period

of course, this gets a bit murky when the things being added to the wiki are someone else's IP - there's not a clear boundary as to which parts are copyright-held by the studio and which parts are copyright-held by the editor

aspects of fair use doctrine apply, but it's never really been tested AFAIK

[rich widget]

Interesting, but I'm not sure how the question of ownership in this instance makes any practical difference.

It's the licensing that matters.

[formal forge]

holding the copyright matters somewhat for the purpose of relicensing

in general, if you own the copyright for something, you can relicense it under an additional license (so long as there aren't incompatibilities between the two - this can get complicated)

but this goes down a (different) murky path of, who are the copyright holders for a collaboratively edited document?

[rich widget]

Right

[formal forge]

this is sort of backwards and not really what CC-BY-NC-SA means, but if they're violating the license of the original content, then it's still not allowed

[crimson gulch]

Yeah it gets complicated when it's data that's been datamined

[stone crater]

Of course, data mining must be free to use, it just hasn't been sorted out in the game files. In this way, you don't have to waste 16 hours to find the relationship between .dat files, and finally found no results. There is no need to waste writing a bunch of programs to find and judge the relationship and possibility of data. Data that's been datamined should be free for all and no need to cite. They will automatically generate beautiful forms and take me to copy them to my wiki.

[crimson gulch]

Yeah, the files are a mess and the work you’ve put in to unravel it over the last ~7 years is really impressive

[brave lodge]

Wiki feedback - search bar is hard to click on narrow screen (ex. vertically rotated) it is covered by "create account" and "login" links

[analog abyss]

other people already filed as a bug in github

[jolly shell]

I’m looking into fixing it but so far only managed to introduce more bugs 😅

[warm orchid]

I know this is probably a silly question, but I was wondering where people were getting their images for the wiki, eg item/weapon/general icons. I added a page for Enkindling orb but didn't know where to find the icon for it 😅

[sour berry]

probably the official cdn (you can right click from trade)

[pure cipher]

Note that image links for the CDN will no longer be possible to guess from internal paths since 3.16, you would have to yoink them manually from a legitimate location.

[analog abyss]

the official CDN now only have low resolution version (at least when you get it from right click in https://pathofexile.com/trade).

you need zao's software and extract the game file (as .dds) , and convert it. Just you may need to convert all files and look which one matching the pic in-game as there is no very obvious pattern on file naming

the "folder" have some sort of pattern btw

and the trade site actually still using the same file name , that would speed up the guessing on the full path of the file

thus in CDN the file name is FlaskPlate.png

and then by doing something to extract all the in-game file in the ggpk as a text file "TOC"

the filepath is

Art/2DItems/Currency/Expedition/FlaskPlate.dds

this one is not a bad web based dds to png covertor

https://www.aconvert.com/image/dds-to-png/

which give this

[red bear]

also white elements of UI is looks not cool.
can they look same to background?

Where I can find info about crafting bench options? Looking for list of flask mods from crafting bench, that can be unveiled by Jun.

[analog abyss]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Crafting_Bench#Jun - Unlocked via unveiling modifiers

just search and highlight "Flask"

[wicked cloud]

what tool do I need to use to find an image in the game files to add to the wiki?

[jolly shell]

Our version of pypoe should be able to do it

https://github.com/Project-Path-of-Exile-Wiki/PyPoE

Make sure to read the GitHub wiki on how to use it

[humble zenith]

Hi! How are edits made on the wiki?

I tried to see around the page, but I (naturally) lack permissions to edit pages directly. So are there named moderators, does somebody own the page or how is it maintained?

[pure cipher]

Typically on a wiki you are able to make edits either with an account or anonymously. Most lean toward requiring accounts to limit vandalism and spam.

Not sure about this one in particular.

[analog abyss]

also make sure you are in the right wiki. Fandom one is deserted in term of editors

[analog abyss]

poe wiki requires account. i think new wiki need to verify email to avoid people to spam

[humble zenith]

Oooh, I didn't know that, thanks!

so poedb instead?

Oh nevermind, I found it!

[novel vigil]

Wait isn't https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki the right wiki ???

[analog abyss]

No. it is deserted

@delicate sorrel Is it alright to add a sticky in this channel that there is another wiki currently other than fandom? Or just list one url the poewiki.net?

Since discord invite will be removed from this channel

[novel vigil]

Well it's too bad this one doesn't even appear in first page with my search engines 😢

[delicate sorrel]

Sure, no problem

The gamepedia/fandom wiki is no longer being updated, as efforts have moved to a hosting website/management with better support/control.
The link to the new wiki can be found at https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki
An autoredirect/search extension for Chrome can be found here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/poe-wiki-search/nalpbalegehinpooppmmgjidgiebblad

[delicate sorrel]

@analog abyss hope that fulfils your request!

[analog abyss]

thx

[finite dirge]

yo

oh

wrong chanol

#1┃general

[wooden mural]

Hey, whats up with the poewiki's confirmation email. Its not coming through

[pure cipher]

The host is being a dingus and screwing with mail delivery.

Thanks for asking.

[wooden mural]

👍 then I shall not inquire for more verification emails until later

[crimson gulch]

Can you try request a new one

[wooden mural]

all 4 came through 2mins ago

including the new one instantly

[crimson gulch]

great!

bloody email 🙃

[wooden mural]

on the note, this is the correct ID for drop_area, right? Old had MapWorldPen, trying to change "The Master" card

just wondering is the MapAtlas different to MapWorld

[crimson gulch]

what page are you on?

[wooden mural]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Map:Lair_Map_(Atlas_of_Worlds)
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Master

this was my search for lair

turns out, it needs to be MapWorldsLair

how is MapAtlas different to MapWorlds

now it says its legacy area

[crimson gulch]

Bear in mind this is still using old data from a previous league

This is the one you probably want though https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Lair_Map

[pure cipher]

The IDs are related to the map series I believe, as in https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Category:Map_series

[wooden mural]

ah

so I can't change it yet for scourge league as that data has not been released yet

👀

[crimson gulch]

yeah, data has not been update for a while, work in progress 😅

data mining is hard when GGG change stuff without documentation

[wooden mural]

yeah I heard all the old tools bork

[crimson gulch]

If you want the discord linked in the wiki sidebar is more active than here 🙂

[analog abyss]

MapAtlas is the id for Atlas of worlds map series. All map since 3.1 shared the same id "MapWorld"

Also, if you update it, you should add the patch note section so that other people does not need to have follow up edit.

[analog abyss]

the sentence is auto generated and unfounately the 3.15 map series is not yet exported and changing the parameter inside that template will break a lot of stuff

we can potentially mine the 3.16 map series when patch live

[wooden mural]

so I didn't fuck up, just that this is result of existing system.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have "global list" of maps that you refer to on items

and it would redirect to latest map series if user clicks on it

[jolly shell]

This reminds me I need to prioritize the map exports as well, will look into this tonight/tomorrow

[analog abyss]

it does already. and the old map (most old article have infobox only) already have new home at Map namespace

[wooden mural]

will try

ah someone had done so already, I'll try to remember that for future reference

Wait, does adding up the version history on the log remove the "legacy" part what I was saying about earlier

it no longer has "legacy" on it

[analog abyss]

you just need to purge cache

[wooden mural]

also what implication this has in terms of a atlas only div card?

[analog abyss]

if you use id "MapAtlas" it will show as legacy map instead. Personally Atlas of Worlds map series is retired in 3.1 so that we never able to know what is dropping in those map

[analog abyss]

It is datamined value via pypoe

[wooden mural]

yeah I saw your reply regarding MapAtlas and MapWorld

[analog abyss]

poedb will have similar level (just don't copying poedb as he is not happy about it when wiki does not credit the data source)

[wooden mural]

aight, hopefully I fuck up little less with my edits from now on

[analog abyss]

the drop level has dispute BTW. May be tool dev misinterpet the data and mistook it, since datamined value for Imperial Legacy is (area/monster) level 80, but people reported that the card drop at lower level

[crimson gulch]

nope

[wooden mural]

ah so it was just cache thing with my MapAtlas shenaginance earlier

lvl 80 certainly seems high for imperial legacy, I thought it was just raised to atlas ilvls

[analog abyss]

If you changed the id to correct "MapWorld" , and then purge cache (via the link in the wiki webpage), it should show the new value

[wooden mural]

hmm I missed that button then

[analog abyss]

just i think something broke in back end right now , it show red text

[wooden mural]

its good now, just something I was wondering about did I fuck up when I saw it showing Legacy:Lair

[analog abyss]

the required character level to equip the item is 0.8 of the required ilvl to gen that mod

[wooden mural]

as I did fuck up with MapAtlas, but changed it to MapWorlds afterwards and it was still showing legacy on my end

[analog abyss]

so that we never know what exactly is that value , the tool dev just "think" it is the drop level , without any extra multiplier

[wooden mural]

gotcha

[crimson gulch]

It's in the dropdown

[wooden mural]

ah

is this a typo, I can't find drop_test from https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Template:Base_item

[crimson gulch]

looks like a typo

drop_text

[wooden mural]

yeah

also is https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Item_class viable input for drop_area?

if I use the itemID

[crimson gulch]

Right but bear in mind this stuff is not supposed to be edited manually

[wooden mural]

oh

aight I'll leave it be then

[analog abyss]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Template:Item

yes it is my typo

[wooden mural]

Can this pic be recreated/added for leech article https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/405874785038368818/588777411995369475/g4ua2m8j2kk21.png

[analog abyss]

who is the original author?

you can ask the author can we use the pic

I think GGG changed a bit in 3.14 btw

[wooden mural]

sorry for forgetting getting back to you, no idea who made it. This is from ages ago from a reddit post if I'm not mistaken. Might be better to just recreate it. What changes you mean from 3.14?

[light linden]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/bwjf6n/balance_in_path_of_exile_legion/epyfnc5/

[untold tinsel]

How would one without an account (yet) go on and fix some of the wiki pages?

Too many of them are just completely wrong and it bothers me 👀

[crimson gulch]

You would have to create an account

Otherwise the wiki ends up full of spam bots

[light linden]

fandom is now kill

[jolly shell]

https://tenor.com/view/trash-know-your-place-gif-12886026

I love this gif

[patent sail]

Since the community seems to be moving over to poewiki.net, I was looking into transferring my wiki resource extracting for poe overlay community fork too. But apparently one of the tables I need is throwing errors. Would some kind of poewiki guru be able to look into it and help fix it?
Page: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Map
Section: maps by level
It's throwing a module error in the table over there :/

[crimson gulch]

Lemme see what I can do, we made quite a few changes to maps including moving old versions into a new namespace

[analog abyss]

I think the wiki went crazy when i marked some map that removed from atlas as drop disabled.

that Maps by level section has long need to rewrite as cargo query based table anyway

While the red text for the unique maps . They are due to main article is not yet recreated

[wooden mural]

test

https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki

https://tenor.com/view/modcheck-discord-twitch-spongebob-looking-gif-21451454

bot

[crimson gulch]

👀

[analog abyss]

well, seems the bot delete discord invite right now, but not summon to other content such as warning fandom wiki yet

[jolly shell]

BotCheck

[light linden]

blyat comrade the bot cannot delete mod posts

[meager oasis]

I’ll try komrade https://poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

https://poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_unique_fishing_rods

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

[jolly shell]

Amazing 👏

[cunning crown]

Greust should put <> around the links when he parrots them, so it hides the preview

they're spammy

[light linden]

he just says whatever they said

damn I can't show it because I am mod wanted to make him spam lorem ipsum

[jolly shell]

Would be really helpful to have this function on the subreddit too, but alas, not possible

I have the bot ready but can’t auto reply

When I have a bit more free time I’ll make it summonble

[rapid shore]

How would you edit the Survival Instincts jewel in the wiki? The jewel was changed before the launch of the league

[proven panther]

Once the league launches the new unique modifiers should end up getting exported to the wiki, before then it's not really worth attempting to update Survival Instincts.

[jolly shell]

^ this pretty much. Modifiers on items are exported from the game directly into the wiki

[wooden mural]

#tooldev-general message potentially interesting for wiki peeps

[crimson gulch]

Sure is

[patent sail]

Thanks for looking into it 🙂 I also noticed newer maps are actually missing from the list. I'm not sure how/who came up with the rating values for each map though. -- Based on the current state, I'll probably have to wait a bit before switching over content retrieval to poewiki, but that's fine though. No rush. The old data from the fandomwiki is still covers info for most maps.

[rapid shore]

are items in the wiki somehow automatically generated or do people have to manually update them? eg how would updating the Quartz Flask page go?

[crimson gulch]

Automatic generated from data mining

It’ll take us a little while to get everything up to date with 3.16

[vast dove]

has anyone here figured out what beyond demons use for attacks? I see fire, lightning and explosions thats whey they always get me because its not all the time they doing this

[coarse ermine]

Depends on the type of demon. There's a boss for each damage type, plus Abaxoth who does all of them. And then the little ones use a variety of skills

[pulsar tundra]

i dont think the survival jewels have been updated yet on the wiki, i could be wrong though

[untold vigil]

You're correct. We're working on getting exports of data from game files so we can update tons of stuff at once.
You're welcome to go in and fix individual pages in the meantime 🙂

[pulsar tundra]

ahh i see, that makes sense :3

i'd love to fix them, but i uh, dont know how work the wiki at all ^^"

[untold vigil]

You can create an account, and then just edit the pages.
The jewel info is defined in a template which has a bunch of documentation at https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Template:Item.
The Setting Mods section is probably what's most important for updating the jewels - it'd be simplest to use explicit<i>_text where <i> is the line number of the modifier.

[obtuse silo]

Just a General statement too whoever: Too the folks in-charge of the Heist section on the wiki: I love you, its so good. Easy and clear. Thanks!

[jade mica]

please don't

[jolly shell]

Generally, it’s better to not edit data that comes from the game files, as it’s hard to maintain and will get nuked when pushing changes from PyPoE

That being said, it’s totally fine to update values for example

We’re working on a document with the “anatomy” of a wiki page in the hopes that it makes it easier to figure out what is data mined and what is user edited

[meager oasis]

I'm seeing a conflict between the fandom wiki and poewiki.net. I'm hoping someone can help me clarify which is correct. It has to do with the accuracy / uncapped chance to hit equation:
https://poewiki.net/wiki/Accuracy
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Accuracy

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

[gusty hedge]

wow... that's quite the aggressive bot

[meager oasis]

poewiki.net/wiki/Accuracy

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

[untold vigil]

The new wiki's formula was updated recently to reflect the changes to evasion in 3.16 (which are inherently also changes to accuracy).
It matches the formula posted at https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q3cpn3/i_worked_out_the_new_evasion_formula/

[gusty hedge]

Thank you

[gusty hedge]

How are db entries edited for the wiki? For example, updating a passive tree node. Is there a Special Pages for this?

I know a coming soon script is meant to bulk update based on data from the ggpk but I assume it's possible to edit the data directly too

[untold vigil]

I really wouldn't recommend updating passives. There's way too many fields that are only accessible from the ggpk. You get this warning if you try to edit the values of a passive:

Please do not create pages in the Passive Skill namespace arbitrarily. These pages should correspond to game data ids for passive skills. PyPoE should be used to ensure data parity.

Edits on this page within {{passive skill}} may be overwritten by PyPoE bot exports. Consult the template documentation to see which arguments will be retained.

Report any issues with PyPoE bot exports you find on the issue tracker or on Discord.

[bold marlin]

stormheart and stormwall pages have some problems that I don't necessarily know how to fix

[jolly shell]

The item acquisition is krangled in a lot of places, we’re looking for a fix while we update to 3.16

[silk latch]

If I am at my guild hideout and want to trade... Can the buyer come to my guild's hideout? Or is only for guild members?

[pure cipher]

You probably want to ask this in a general PoE questions channel.

[modern quarry]

how do i link items in chat

[pure cipher]

You probably want to ask this in a general PoE questions channel.

[modern quarry]

sorry

[pulsar tundra]

tried to figure out how to do the wiki stuff to change it

yeah.. i cant wrap my head around it lol

ill def just leave it to yall

[crimson gulch]

What were you trying?

[pulsar tundra]

just the survival jewels

[crimson gulch]

ah yeah, jewels are updated, like many other pages, from data mining

[pulsar tundra]

ahh ok, sweet :)

[analog abyss]

That jewel still need manual update as the mod has been awapped

The legacy table need to be done by human too

[silk latch]

All are gods just mortals ascended to godhood.

?

[tropic silo]

حد عربي

[jolly shell]

I’m not that well versed in lore but I don’t think so. Some are but some are ‘ancient’ gods afaik

[split geode]

We should probably get the link to the wiki on the officie POE site to point to the new wiki

[pure cipher]

There's string-pulling going on for that.

[analog abyss]

Sooner or later Reddit would ask that

Fandom one outdated for a year or more

[forest apex]

anybody has a guide for best watchstone setup for 3.16?

[analog abyss]

Better ask in other channel

[red bear]

Hello!
I hate to be critical, but.. this page is outdated
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Aura

[honest topaz]

I hate to be critical, but.. Edit the page if you see something wrong on it.

[crimson gulch]

Need any help creating an account to update it?

[red bear]

My knowledge of english is not good enough to do this job

[untold vigil]

When that's the case, you can add a template to mark it as needing updates. I went ahead and added one to Aura earlier, but it you see more out of date spots, go ahead and add it there.

[red bear]

honestly, i have no time to do this
I have a 12 hour job almost every day

[untold vigil]

That's fine. Posting here or in the wiki's discord will get it on our radar, which is also helpful. Thanks for pointing it out!

In the future, prefacing with the fact that you don't have time to update anything should keep us from encouraging you to make updates yourself.

In general, since it's community maintained and there's a very low barrier to entry (just making an account), we encourage people to make changes themselves to help spread out the work. I hope you understand

[hollow vessel]

to put it on someone's radar - this page's description is for an old version of Brutal Fervour: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Brutal_Fervour

[last forge]

Hello, someone can help me with poe api ?

[analog abyss]

first question. Which poe wiki? fandom or poewiki.net?

also, you want to use what software for wiki api?

for poewiki.net, usually you need to point to poewiki.net/w

[jolly shell]

Lets clarify first, poe api or poe wiki APIs?

[jolly shell]

Thanks, we’ll look into it

[pure cipher]

For the APIs that GGG exposes about Path of Exile, #tooldev-general is a good place to inquire and also see the dev docs: https://www.pathofexile.com/developer/docs

[hollow vessel]

another one: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Splitting_Steel - the Gem Type info under Skill Functions/Interactions is from pre-3.15

[hollow vessel]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Defy_Pain - info's out of date from pre-3.14

[untold vigil]

If you know what's going on now with splitting steel, and are able, please fix the out of date section, or remove it if things are all working as expected now for the gem.

[untold vigil]

Thanks for calling this out. We still need to take a pass over ascendancy passive pages (and pages for other passives) and clean them up.

[fervent verge]

anyone can put this screenshot under tectonic slam?
30% branching chance / 100% branching chance

• hydrosphere makes boss hit by sunder shockwave twice

[hollow vessel]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Ancestral_Bond < the info about location on the tree is pretty out-of-date

[meager oasis]

So https://poewiki.net/wiki/ is dead and https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/ is the new official wiki ?

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

[indigo salmon]

The fandom wiki a 50k pages, there are 13k in poewiki

is that normal?

[pure cipher]

It might be counting the different languages on the Fandom one, as far as I know the export we used for poewiki is complete and has been improved since.

[indigo salmon]

yay content is more up to date

good work have been made

[analog abyss]

the counter is wrong. the exported page that without subsequent edit may not counted

[crimson gulch]

The old wiki also claims to have 38 active editors which is a lie

[jolly shell]

You will find pages on the new wiki that aren’t on fandom, but you won’t the other way around 🙂

[brave parcel]

So which wiki is the good one ?

[elfin violet]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki

[brave parcel]

Thank

[stray hornet]

https://www.poewiki.net/w/index.php?title=The_Oppressor

This shield was not originally planned as part of the 6 Uniques for 3.16.0, but was intentionally introduced prior to the league's launch to prevent players from deterministically obtaining The Squire using a Trash to Treasure or a Tainted Mythic Orb. <- is this true?

[stone crater]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qd3xxr/trash_to_trash/

[pure cipher]

Heavily implied if not outright said.

I forget where, but the wording was pretty much "it serves its purpose well".

[stray hornet]

I'm just really surprised the shield has 3d model if it wasn't palnned, considering how GGG were always slow with this

[pure cipher]

Chris: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qd3xxr/trash_to_trash/hhk3mh4/?context=10

This one is amazing at doing what it's supposed to do

[stray hornet]

I remember trash to treusure pun

[pure cipher]

They've got a bunch of assets speculatively done and from future projects that can be used.

[stray hornet]

aslo I checked this page like a month ago and there was some crossed stuff and mentioning of GGG confirmation on that but history revisions doesn't reflect that for some reason?

nvm it's here https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Squire

[analog abyss]

I removed to the crossed text. It is not in encyclopaedic tone to do so

[wooden mural]

is it missing a patch note?

[crimson gulch]

Probably, yes

Someone will have to manually check all patch notes to check when that number was changed

[analog abyss]

unsure the gem was nerfed in 3.15 or not. If so, that section of the patch note from pathofexile.com needed to copy to the wiki article manually at relevant section

I saw some gem that boosted in one patch , and then next patch nerfed back to the original value (or even worse), so that if the infobox and the version history section is not matching, most likely just noone copy the patch note to the wiki section, rather than GGG ninja nerf that not written in patch note (GGG do have ninja nerf that mostly likely just too busy to add all change to the patch note)

[untold vigil]

I located the patch note line for the gem change (it was due to ignite changes in 3.16) and added it to the version history for impending doom

[full pelican]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Armour#/media/File:Armour-rawdmg4.png

this gradient makes no sense

mitigating 9 out of 10dmg (90%) is red, but 14286 out of 50k (28.5%) is green

doing the raw dmg as % of incomming dmg would make the gradient better with just the default conditional formatting that is used
or there would have to be used some fancy conditional formatting formula to do the gradient as if % while displaying the raw data

and i now noticed that here is a second chart doing exactly that

[lusty geyser]

There are some pages I've noticed that have broken English, I wouldn't mind taking the time to fix it. Do I just need to make an account or do I need to request the ability to modify pages?

(Unless it's that way for a reason)

[crimson gulch]

Creating an account is all you need!

you'll need to validate your email, which is a step we unfortunately require to combat bot spam

[blazing karma]

that was actually made by me

I used the same conditional formatting as %...

[full pelican]

yeah i figured its just hte default lowest to highest gradeint :)

[agile dust]

Has anybody ever worked out the formula for deciding the experience required per level? Is there a formula? I've been trying to figure it out, but I suck at math and can't even get anything close.

[raven bluff]

Like a lot of the things in this game, it's a table lookup. The values in the table might have been determined by some formula, but we don't know what it is, and it's probably had a bunch of manual adjustments (e.g. 3.1.0 explicitly tweaked the experience requirements for levels 95-100)

[flat eagle]

boss and act/parts pages of wiki with recommended defenses and damage

[crimson gulch]

???

[pure cipher]

Subjective things like that tends to be more suitable for guide-type pages, rather than interspersed with the factual information of regular wiki pages.

[flat eagle]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_gems#List this is incomplet

[wild shoal]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_skill_gems try this

[analog abyss]

just template size blow up in the wiki, need to use the list above as well as List of support gems

[stiff inlet]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Sacred_Blossom
Changed region

[crimson gulch]

Can you provide some more details?

[stiff inlet]

Now it is Hamlet

[delicate sorrel]

updated

[analog abyss]

also changed to use {{psl|}} template

[analog abyss]

and probably need to check again in 3.17.....the passive may be deleted

[oblique goblet]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Strongbox → probably useful to add a note on the armourer's strongbox line of the table to mention that The Mayor div card can't drop anymore (since Perandus and his fancy manor are removed from the game now)

[tranquil bison]

Why is there no notification/indication on the fandom Path of Exile WIKI that it is no longer actively maintained to refer any users and potential editors to the new poewiki.net wiki instead?

[pure cipher]

Fandom considers it vandalism and fixes it.

They really don’t like people hitting their income.

[tranquil bison]

That sucks. Currently seems impossible for the average user to know that the fandom wiki is not recommended to be used since it's the top result on most search engines

Also the link in the footer of the official pathofexile.com page still links to the fandom WIKI. Has anyone asked GGG to change this? EDIT: Same link in the main menu on the site as well under "Game"

[pure cipher]

Yes, the team is in ongoing contact with GGG about integration.

The primary problem for Google juice, apart from linking, is that most pages are too similar to the old wiki and as such, get a duplicate penalty.

Not much of a good way to fix that except improving the editorial content of the new wiki.

[tranquil bison]

If GGG would publicly state in a news posting that they support poewiki I wonder if it could then be referred to as fact in the fandom WIKI without getting removed/reverted

Then again not sure they would be willing/interested in doing that

[pure cipher]

The old wiki seems to be in a bit of a lockdown mode as all previous editors have mysteriously lost their roles as Fandom found out, I wouldn’t have much hope of ever having anything even hinting that it’s moved on there. The best we have is that it’s stale and only getting staler, with word of mouth to know that the new one exists.

Personal speculation - successful migrations like this one is a threat to their whole platform as each one that succeeds hollows out their brand and raises concerns about why wikis are leaving.

[tranquil bison]

I just reserved my character name for the next league as "StopUsingOldFandomWiki". It has 1 extra character remaining for any variations others might like to use 😁

[wooden mural]

I mean at least on this discord we auto delete fandom and post new wiki link instead by the bot

so it will slowly spread the information

[analog abyss]

it just standard policy that if you no longer edit for 1 month (or so) , you lost the admin right. I am not an admin but my account isn't ban either.

the sysop must seen the incident if fandom poe wiki admin has be doing something fishy, so have admin right or not does not really matter. But i think normal editor, viewing recent edit would have an idea what is going on. Or they really really not reading reddit or official forum ........

[crimson gulch]

Na, wasn't standard policy. Some of those admins hadn't been active for months and months. Fandom wiped all admin level access

[lime escarp]

is it just me or the wiki is missing eye of winter?

[untold vigil]

You're probably looking at the old fandom wiki which isn't maintained anymore.
The new wiki has it. https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Eye_of_Winter

[rigid mauve]

I know it's in the pinned messages but it's probably worth adding the link to the channel topic too for extra visibility.

[rich widget]

@delicate sorrel Can we make a note of that in the channel topic?

[delicate sorrel]

of what, sorry?

[delicate sorrel]

i've talked to bex myself and while it's under discussion there hasn't been any new updates

[light linden]

[lime escarp]

oh shit rly? thx man

i did hear about the new wiki but I just thought it was like a 2nd one and not a substitute of the 1st one

[pure cipher]

The goal is indeed to supersede the old one, rendering it obsolete.

[raven bluff]

They won't. This story has played out before with other Wikia/Fandom wikis

[quaint gull]

heyo, are the files save locations of div card imgs in any specific order

[meager oasis]

I've noticed that recently the Map page has been overhauled and a maps by level section was completely removed (or it got moved somewhere else?). This table container some interesting info such as bosses and layout ratings (old fandom page still shows them: https://poewiki.net/wiki/Map#Maps_by_level). Are there any plans to re-add this information to the poewiki?

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

I've noticed that recently the Map page has been overhauled and a maps by level section was completely removed (or it got moved somewhere else?). This table container some interesting info such as bosses and layout ratings (old fandom page still shows them: https://poewiki.net/wiki/Map#Maps_by_level). Are there any plans to re-add this information to the poewiki?

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

I've noticed that recently the Map page has been overhauled and a maps by level section was completely removed (or it got moved somewhere else?). This table container some interesting info such as bosses and layout ratings (old fandom page still shows them: https://poewiki.net/wiki/Map#Maps_by_level). Are there any plans to re-add this information to the poewiki?

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

I've noticed that recently the Map page has been overhauled and a maps by level section was completely removed (or it got moved somewhere else?). This table container some interesting info such as bosses and layout ratings (old fandom page still shows them: https://poewiki.net/wiki/Map#Maps_by_level). Are there any plans to re-add this information to the poewiki?

The Old fandom wiki is no longer maintained please use the new community wiki instead, thank you.

[patent sail]

Thanks but no thanks bot

I've noticed that recently the Map page has been overhauled and a maps by level section was completely removed (or it got moved somewhere else?). This table container some interesting info such as bosses and layout ratings (old fandom page still shows them: poe fandom wiki/Map#Maps_by_level). Are there any plans to re-add this information to the poewiki?

[rigid mauve]

The bot was only reposting because you used the old wiki's URL. There's no need to try to get around it by splitting up the URL - no-one should be using the old wiki at this point.

Also, fuck fandom.

[analog abyss]

already has "List of non-unique maps" section that able to sort by tier

not showing the shaped level btw

[jolly shell]

also, boss and layout rating is highly subjective

[raven bluff]

not only subjective, but I suspect they're based on some rather old ratings someone did, which have been obsolete since Conquerors or so

[jolly shell]

That as well

[raven bluff]

that being said, there's plenty of objective details about maps/bosses that would be interesting to include, like indoor/outdoor, linear/branching, and how variable map layouts are; whether bosses have a separate arena, whether bosses have phases...

[jolly shell]

That would be good to have, we’d just need to make sure it’s consistent and up to date

[pure cipher]

One of the things I want to do some day is see if sense can be made from the level generation inputs w.r.t overall structure for maps and zones, I've seen the race guides but those are more general squiggles hinting at directions and terrain features.

Any decade now.

[raven bluff]

Definitely. IIRC you've made some progress on decoding micro-level layout in ARM, but the higher-level topology is pretty mysterious

And it doesn't help that there are probably at least two high-level algorithms at work for indoor/outdoor areas

(which doesn't mean literally indoor/outdoor either! I'm pretty certain twilight strand uses the indoor algorithm for example)

[pure cipher]

Hideouts are way easier (except Robber's Trench and Shaper's), typically just one room at a fixed location.

Twilight Strand is a .tgr, so "outdoors".

Unless there's another distinction, of course.

In any way, there's some interesting information to distill there for sure.

[raven bluff]

hmm. my concept of "outdoor" is area layouts which have their outline generated separately from their set pieces, like fellshrine ruins

iirc one of the devs gave a high level explanation of the outdoor layout algorithm at one point?

in the context of explaining an area generation bug for a map... iirc one of the graveyard tileset maps

[jolly shell]

Yep at exilecon

[pure cipher]

They've covered both at points in time. Indoor is mostly about growing room connections, while outdoors is more about refining and jiggling edges with connected tiles.

[raven bluff]

the explanation I was thinking of was online

[jolly shell]

Ah

AFAIK they update their level gen pretty much every league

It’s interesting stuff, been doing similar work on my game

[raven bluff]

there's micro level changes to layouts/topologies but the overall algorithms are pretty stable AFAIK

[jolly shell]

But yeah i think if you can figure out the rooms/tiles you could pick up on signs where they point towards

Most layouts already have a pretty good forward path

[analog abyss]

it is actually written like in 3.0 or 2.4

[quaint gull]

heyo, just to confirm that the recipe still works after prophecy removal

Quiver - Normal
Rain of Arrows - 1%+
Chance Orb
Onyx - Rare

[rich widget]

It might not work at the moment, but it has been confirmed by GGG to be a bug.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/skoyz2/hyrris_bite_recipe_no_longer_works/

[pure cipher]

It's fixed:

So while it was momentarily broken, it should be good now again, which assumedly was when sokratis tested \o/

[rich widget]

The question is, does it also work with a legacy quiver?

[pure cipher]

Seems from comments in the thread that it doesn't work for people still, so might not apply quite yet?

[pure cipher]

Just to clarify, were you saying that you tested it and it works, or that you were asking if it works?

[quaint gull]

Tested and works in siege
(Self-Confirmed that it works at the time of sending the image, with the mentioned above ingredients )

[quaint gull]

*the gem was from the vendor gem from nessa

[analog abyss]

at least i tested before (before 3.17). it does not give me shaped unique even my base is shaped

well, legacy item worked

give me shaped and new implicit too

[grand eagle]

Is a legacy asphyxias wrath quiver worth anything?

[rich widget]

This is probably the wrong place to ask.

[untold bluff]

this is for the porcupine card, what does the legacy area restrictions mean?

can it drop in orchard?

[analog abyss]

legacy area restirction are linked to legacy map Orchard (Atlas of Worlds)

you can try to farm the current version of the Orchard and tell us will it drop

most card drop location are provided by player

btw i don't know is player mixed up gardens and Terrance map so that i removed Terrance map for now

Gardens was known as Terrance and current Terrance was known as High Terrance , old page history seems stated the drop was from old Terrance aka Gardens. So that i am not sure the post rename Terrance is the right place or not

[jolly shell]

It does drop in orchard

[analog abyss]

then should add it to the article(i need to do it later, plus try to farm a few Terrance to verify)

[analog abyss]

ok, not a big sample size. 5 legacy (3.16) Terance, no hideout , no porcupine , lots of emperor luck

will farm more tomorrow

[rich widget]

To elaborate further: An Orchard Map from the Atlas of Worlds series (version 2.4.0) opens an area with the ID MapAtlasOrchard. Whereas, Orchard Maps from the War for the Atlas series (version 3.1.0) and beyond open an area with the ID MapWorldsOrchard. Both areas are named "Orchard", but they are considered different areas as far as the game is concerned. I can't confirm, but they may even have different layouts and bosses.

[untold bluff]

got it, and the wiki says that the MapAtlasOrchard area drops porcupine, while MapWorldsOrchard doesn't?

[rich widget]

There's no guarantee that that is correct. All of the drop locations are added to the wiki by editors. GGG doesn't expose that information to the game client, which means that it can't be data mined.

[untold bluff]

got it, thanks

[raven bluff]

I'd question whether it makes sense to track legacy drop restrictions. It's difficult to verify, especially for what are already rather uncommon drops like div cards, and not especially useful for players either

[rich widget]

Same. It doesn't seem useful and it's extremely difficult to verify. I also think it's confusing to your typical wiki user.

[jolly shell]

I agree. I am all for historical content but don’t think it needs this level of accuracy

[rich widget]

Do you think it's alright to make the executive decision to remove it, or should we poll editors for more feedback?

[jolly shell]

Let’s discuss but I don’t see a good reason to justify the amount of work it takes. If anyone wants to commit to maintaining it, we’ll support it

[crimson gulch]

This. I say it's a no-brainer

[molten echo]

On https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Crafting Bench a large number of bench recipes are indicated as "start unlocked" but I don't think this is the case.

For example, specifically Fire Damage Over Time Multiplier is listed under both "Suffix Modifiers - Starts Unlocked" and again further down the page under Unlocked by Unveiling - Suffix modifiers

poedb suggests this is only unlocked by unveiling.

I presume there's an issue with how the generic "unlocked by visiting locations" table is populated? But I don't have the knowledge to look into how this table is written or sourced.

[untold vigil]

You're very right. I was updating the page yesterday for 3.17 and missed that. I'll update the query to exclude things requiring unveiling

Thanks for pointing this out!

[flat eagle]

not funny, didnt laugh

i don’t belong here do i

aight imma head out

[quaint gull]

Had a few "The Admirer" naturally drop in Vaal Temple
To add them at https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Admirer ?

[jolly shell]

It looks like it’s already there

[crimson gulch]

@analog abyss is fast

[analog abyss]

It is not on the page yet. Only Vaal Pyramid

[crimson gulch]

doh

[indigo salmon]

I added some Archnemesis mechanism helpers https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_Path_of_Exile_related_applications#Archnemesis

[quaint gull]

have had 5 baited expectations drop naturally from dunes rarely tho

[wooden mural]

Should be visible shortly

[wooden mural]

Do I need to add more lines on the unique than

|recipe1_part1_amount                    = INT
|recipe1_description                     = {{c|unique|NAME}}```
when adding div card source to the specific unique page?

[crimson gulch]

use a different recipe number obvs but that should be fine

Here's Headhunter, for example

|recipe1_part1_amount                    = 8
|recipe1_description                     = {{c|unique|Headhunter}}
|recipe2_part1_item_name                 = The Fiend
|recipe2_part1_amount                    = 11
|recipe2_description                     = {{c|corrupted|corrupted}} {{c|unique|Headhunter}}
|recipe3_part1_item_name                 = The Demon
|recipe3_part1_amount                    = 10
|recipe3_description                     = {{c|corrupted|two-implicit corrupted}} {{c|unique|Headhunter}}```

This is all documented here https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Template:Item#Recipes

[wooden mural]

it was the 1st recipe entry for the item

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Forbidden_Shako https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Judging_Voices

just wondering if the lack of it showing is a cache issue or did I fuck it up

[wooden mural]

oh now it showed up 🤔

[rich widget]

Yes. You have to purge cache.

[slender rivet]

Can i report description issues on the wiki on this channel or there is a proper channel for that ?

[rich widget]

Check the pinned message.

[slender rivet]

Its on the poewiki.net site

The new wiki

[rich widget]

Yes, I know. A separate Discord server was set up for the new wiki.

[slender rivet]

Thanks ❤️ i got it now

[flat eagle]

please fix this link too old https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_skill_gems

for example lacerate is str+dex and in this link it say only require str

[wooden mural]

The list is correct

the 1st column is the main requirement

the 2nd rows before level requirement is their alt requirement

pretty sure these don't require only int

[analog abyss]

green gem must require dex so that the column skip to mention it . You can write a lede to explain it BTW

[flat eagle]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Totem some active skill gem are missing in this link

[analog abyss]

which? I need the name of specific skill in order to rewrite the cargo query of the template

[flat eagle]

ancestral protector for example

[flat eagle]

life leech dont work with frost blade right? it needs physical damage

how to add life leech for cold hits?

going for life on hit

[analog abyss]

dude.... are you using fandom or poewiki.net

anyway on my side my web browser show it is there

unless there is some temp bug that need to purge the skill article page to allow the automatic script to add that gem back

[flat eagle]

i linked poewiki

[analog abyss]

try #1┃after-acts-help o

just login and click purge page

[flat eagle]

ups yes i wrote in wrong chat sorry

[analog abyss]

sometimes the cloudflare or the wiki hosting code stored old version of the page

[flat eagle]

i cant find the purge page button i refreshed and now it has more totems did you add it?

its in more button

what does it do? the purge

"purge cache"

[crimson gulch]

It purges the server cached page

basically tells the wiki to rebuild it

[flat eagle]

ok

[red bear]

Hi
can anybody fix this? I can't. monakS

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Shockwave_Support

[crimson gulch]

Fixed

[red bear]

https://tenor.com/view/olsen-twins-thank-you-you-da-best-you-are-the-best-blow-kiss-gif-16197521

[limpid hull]

Jic someone here has an account and is so inclined.

[jolly shell]

Can you share the link please?

[sharp geode]

brutal restraint page doesnt have the list of additional bonuses you can get on notables like lethal pride has

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Brutal_Restraint

[untold vigil]

It's on the Lifetap support gem page

[analog abyss]

It is in timeless jewel article

Feel free to cut and paste back to brutal restraint article

[wooden mural]

Not really a wiki question, but shouldn't the icon look like this? https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/i_ldU_bcFhpIxs5OUeuik5s09zipkdORD5IMJ5aTiK8/https/i.imgur.com/nP6iG6F.png

when mine looks like MS Word

[analog abyss]

probably cloudflare problem

[crimson gulch]

We updated the favicon and the wiki logo for Sentinel

[wooden mural]

ic

[bold marlin]

Wish the oddball conditional weapons like Dyadus have some janky way to have their expected DPS shown

like, is it hideous? perhaps. but

[sand stratus]

not all of the eldritch currency items are in the stackables cargo table https://www.poewiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Drilldown/stackables&limit=100&offset=250 (greater eldritch ichor, grand eldritch ichor and ember) may be more stackable items missing

[analog abyss]

probably need to null edit the page of the article of that specific missing currency

[ruby smelt]

there's no way many of these are correct https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Glorious_Vanity

[raven bluff]

what about it are you concerned about? generally looks consistent with poedb, only passives that look wrong are Legacy/Might of the Vaal (which are randomized)

[ruby smelt]

40% pdr, 35% pen, 30% max res

[raven bluff]

some of the vaal passives are pretty nuts, yes. they replace existing passives rather than augmenting them, though

[ruby smelt]

All the things I mentioned are 10x higher than what poedb has them at or more

[gritty root]

I'm trying to snag images from the wiki- to make emotes out of them- but I literally cannot open or save the image in any sway short of screenshotting, and I'm trying to get a transparent background.

How can I copy these darn symbols?
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Expedition_league

I can't get them from the poedb page either
https://poedb.tw/us/MinimapIcons

[stone crater]

https://i.imgur.com/ql3D8Dq.png

[gritty root]

Hero, ty

[raven bluff]

haha, that's still got the harvest infrastructure icons

[red bear]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Hallowed_Ground

send help

[crimson gulch]

hmmm looks like that map page doesn't exist for some reason

I think that map series may have never gotten imported

[rich widget]

The Expedition series was never imported.

[limpid hull]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Battlemage's_Cry
the skillgem overview is missing the mana cost and cd

[ionic aurora]

Thank you for pointing it out
We are still having trouble automating the import for skills gem with a support and active part.
This is being looked at, but still work in progress

[broken star]

hey the bottom of https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Quiver has an unlabeled table which should probably be titled Drop-disabled Quivers as it is in https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/List_of_unique_quivers

[analog abyss]

fixed

[flat eagle]

i went to this link : https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Item_socket and there say that item level 1 cant have 3 linked gem sockets but here's the prove please update wiki as soon as possible.

[rich widget]

The article might still need to be updated, but that bow is a special guaranteed drop from Hillock when you play as the Ranger. Item level 1 bows cannot normally roll that many sockets.

[analog abyss]

also, the socket rule may be override by other thing such as strongbox mod. So that the wiki article is right, or "wrong" by not stating every possible scenario. Just too hard to state everything btw

[raven bluff]

there are rules, and there are exceptions to the rules. if you start trying to describe every exception like it's part of the rule, you risk losing the sense of the rule itself

[rich widget]

The rule in question is about item drops with randomized sockets. Item drops with fixed sockets, like the 3L bow above, are something else entirely.

[raven bluff]

also, I feel like non-random drops, outside of endgame bosses, are something we just don't know a lot about

(the only ones I can think of offhand are from the first zombie, hillock, and hailrake)

[broken star]

anybody know what
Lua error in Module:Item_class at line 78: The item class name "Bows" is invalid..
is about on https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Bow

[proven panther]

multiple pages seem to have that same issue (https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Staff for example)

swapping Bows -> Bow or Staves -> Staff seems to fix the error and make the item class box show up correctly, I'm not familiar enough with this to know if it's actually the correct change to make though

[crimson gulch]

There’s a big recategorisation happening, it was discussed in the wiki discord

Looks like we’ve a few pages to update

[quaint gull]

The Long Con (Elderslayer's Exalted Orb) confirmed location

(dropped alongside a lot of currency from the treasre)

[feral thorn]

Hey, don't know if the right people are online but the Wiki's DB is in bad shape

[crimson gulch]

Sorted now 🙂

[feral thorn]

Seems broken again