1┃general

[tranquil umbra]

you just use whispers

and it solves itself

[cobalt blade]

Yep

[plush gulch]

an amulet slot is very valuable

you could run like Yoke of suffering in there

[surreal mulch]

trans static strike is static strike for single target

[kindred silo]

arent they like very different skills

[tranquil umbra]

whispers is so much cleaner

[kindred silo]

oh ya arcing is a lot better than static strike

[tranquil umbra]

you can even go CI with it

[vernal ravine]

it's my favorite strike skill it's fantastic to play

[kindred silo]

its actually a projectile

[plush gulch]

I meant you could run the normal wild strike and use yoke of suffering

so idk if you even win that much dmg

[tranquil umbra]

yes but that loses significantly more damage

[cobalt blade]

All att isnt

[tranquil umbra]

res inversion is stupid

[plush gulch]

does it ? 🤔

maybe I guess

[cobalt blade]

But 13 isnt enough to reach 65 even with synth

[plush gulch]

I would say what make it good is the tattoo

[bleak quiver]

reversing 200 res into -200 then having a bunch of pen is crazy

[plush gulch]

because even on the low end

you still get crazy inversion

[cobalt blade]

u cant reverse 200 res though

[kindred silo]

how tf r u getting 200 res

[tranquil umbra]

yeah ofc treachery is broken

[cobalt blade]

invert goes off max res

[plush gulch]

without it im not sure it's that insane

[tranquil umbra]

with inversion

[plush gulch]

would be very inconsistent

[cobalt blade]

if they have 90 max its -90

[bleak quiver]

whops the 200 is from the ring

sorry

200 pen ring was stuck in my head, yeah 90 reversed and the 200 pen on top

[plush gulch]

I think monster have 75% max res like us

I mean who care it's lot of dmg

regardless

[cobalt blade]

By default ye

[bleak quiver]

give them some purities with treachery

[cobalt blade]

But most without you boosting them sit at the 30-50 odd range anyway

[bleak quiver]

bosses also have from 40-50 base

[plush gulch]

can't compete

[full kraken]

ah fuck the bow's dex requirement itself fucks me

[plush gulch]

because no bleed nor poison

too bad

[tranquil umbra]

yeah monsters have like 30 base so if you give them purity of ice that alone is max inversion

[full kraken]

It has 179 dex req I didnt account for that

[cobalt blade]

wdym

You can run that with invert and pen

you just need flat added phys somewhere to poison/bleed anyway

[full kraken]

wait... I can enchant it though lol

[cobalt blade]

ring or glove

[bleak quiver]

and you can get bleed and poison from generals cry

[cobalt blade]

Yea

[tranquil umbra]

you can still use extremes without whispers you just have to solve it

[full kraken]

oh god tempering orbs are like 2D each

[full fossil]

im sleepy chat

send help

[full kraken]

I shoulda imprinted that first

and done my white sockets during that process

[plush gulch]

well if you pick the normal wild strike with yoke I wonder if you get as much damage as you would with coiling whisper and wilf strike of extreme

I guess you can go for pain of suffering ailment

but you cazn't bleed nor poison

[cobalt blade]

gencry bladeflurry

[limpid prairie]

Just discovered ailment duration on tinctures think i can freeze ubers

[plush gulch]

because no phys

[cobalt blade]

your now bleeding and poisoning

[bleak quiver]

well, you CAN, but with way more investiment

[plush gulch]

you could shield charge or something

but it's so bad

nobody should ever do that

don't ever plan on shield charging bosses to apply stuff

[livid quarry]

kk harvest boss is bugged

i let him move around

[tranquil umbra]

please do not use chance to poison/bleed shield charge

[plush gulch]

worst qol you can do

[livid quarry]

more than 1 min

takes no dmg

[full kraken]

okay prolly cheaper to just buy a new bow and start over lol

[plush gulch]

I followed a guide using shied charge for curses

im never doing that again

[bleak quiver]

you can just imbue some skill that hits a bunch of time with chance to poison and bbe done

it gives chaos flat and chance to poison, so just a ball lightning and done, or generals cry to automate a atk skill

[full kraken]

gonna tempering orb at the same time as white socket'ing it, try and hit attributes enchant

[cobalt blade]

technically you could imprint tempering anytime it deletes white socket

[plush gulch]

ngl one nice thing about wild strike

delirium ailment

so good

you get all three

[tranquil umbra]

?

[full kraken]

that means Im spending the temper orb, whereas locking it doesnt spend the orb

and tempering orbs cost way more than beastlock

[plush gulch]

well other abilities can't proc all three

[cobalt blade]

oh lock tempering boring i see

[plush gulch]

but here you need one jewel slot

[cobalt blade]

more fun to delete currency smh

[plush gulch]

really worth it

[full kraken]

I just nuked like 10 div on this dumb bow that I cant even wear so Im having lots of "fun" XD

back to the grind to get my divs back

on the plus side though I have positive chaos res now that I got my new cluster jewels

its beautiful

[plush gulch]

even without yoke and stuff

they are worth it

I think

🤔

[cobalt blade]

Love secrets of suff

[plush gulch]

arctic armour

you can put chill ground

[cobalt blade]

that isn't real

[plush gulch]

idk I love arctic armour

it's my favourite aura

[cobalt blade]

no i mean using it for ailments for yoke

Arctic itself is good

lol

[short prairie]

It nukes my damage cuz I’m using heatshiver

[cobalt blade]

Chill Enemy for 0.5 seconds when Hit, reducing their Action Speed by 30%
disabled by sos* but also just not consistent

[plush gulch]

my current build I made it better embracing inconsistent stuff personally

[full kraken]

it feels kind of weird ggg hasnt explored the design space of some trans gems on skills that naturally ignite, shock, or chill, and swapping them to their "alternate" ailment as the trans gems "thing"

[plush gulch]

like I had so many layers

[cobalt blade]

Skissue or smth idk

[cobalt blade]

theres one that does this i think

[plush gulch]

instead of trying to make one consistent I wxould add another one

[short prairie]

heatshiver needs freeze

[cobalt blade]

yuh i know but skissue for running heatshiver

embrace gull shrine belt

[short prairie]

Sure I have brutal massive

[plush gulch]

belt a bit too rare

[cobalt blade]

+aoe with gull

[elfin shale]

"Protection Condition 4. If your spectres die in a hostile area, your spectres will transform into "Orb Spectres" that cannot use skills and cannot be targeted. They will automatically transform back to their original form upon entering a new area or instance."

Is this true of corpse spectres?

[short prairie]

Wait

Brutal replenishing

Not massive

[cobalt blade]

yes

[elfin shale]

Damn

I thought if they died you were just out 30d or whatever

[cobalt blade]

Not anymore

Though you can still delete 30d from your own fuckups

[plush gulch]

now we have qol of a 30 years old game instead of 60

[elfin shale]

Ive never made a mistake in my life

[plush gulch]

for specters

[short prairie]

Also ninja doesn’t give you freeze in config by default

[plush gulch]

and im here for it

[short prairie]

Idk how to activate ninja freeze

[plush gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/tmnt-fast-forward-leo-leonardo-ninja-turtles-gif-24418816

ninja freeze

[short prairie]

[slender slate]

lol they nerfed mansion

and fixed city square xD

[short prairie]

Was it a nerf?

[slender slate]

no more boss mirages?

[short prairie]

Dis you test it yourself

[slender slate]

i didnt

[nocturne maple]

I thought it was no mirage portal in boss arena

[short prairie]

Reading comprehension

[plush gulch]

do you hate me now because of my good taste in gif

[nocturne maple]

which is a buff

[short prairie]

Correct

Portals no longer spawn in boss room so it’s a buff

[bleak quiver]

yes, its a huge buff

that bug was very anoying

[plush gulch]

it's a conspiracy it was never a buff.

[bleak quiver]

lossing a bunch of shrines for nothing

[short prairie]

Heatshiver gives 30% more damage with 20 chill and if you can freeze

[plush gulch]

we never went to the moon

there is no picture of it being a buff ever being taken

[cobalt blade]

yes i know

[livid quarry]

@short prairie dont need other sources of frenzy gen

[cobalt blade]

i have ran the old heatshiver back before it got nerfed on a tota sparker for sanctum dmg lol

[short prairie]

So it’s not a skrissue

[full fossil]

@short prairie stinky

[elfin shale]

wow skeleton life is a fraction of what spectres are running around with

[plush gulch]

@cobalt blade can people still make tanky build even with many unique ?

I was curious

[cobalt blade]

what do you consider many unique

and what do you consider tanky

[elfin shale]

I mean you can make something tanky with all but like 2 slots unique im sure

[cobalt blade]

you can do all but 1 for fross

[elfin shale]

Just means your uniques are like, mageblood+svalinn+other shit like that

[cobalt blade]

depending on your definition of tanky

[cobalt blade]

you just need big ES chest rly

[dreamy crane]

50 mil shipment

wish me luck

[plush gulch]

well I don't have an answer to this

:/

[short prairie]

so. What.

[cobalt blade]

toss in pcharge ralakesh>malachai's loop>soul eater gloves

[elfin shale]

my family is dying

[cobalt blade]

fix res on jewels

[livid quarry]

anyway if u use berserk extra strike u wont have to worry about frenzy gen and its like 95% more dmg

[cobalt blade]

lol

[plush gulch]

well it's hard to give a number

xD

[short prairie]

literally same as slayer with warriors legacy

[livid quarry]

yeah im not going to do slayer next time

frenzy ring always too expensive

no point

[plush gulch]

I felt like anybody with a heatshiver was squishy as fuck

if you watch a vod guide they would tell you it's just a mapper

don't expect more

what does it mean in number idk

[cobalt blade]

thats b ecause u usually werent building for tankiness when wearing a full dps hat

rely more on freezing shit to stay alive

[short prairie]

what the

[cobalt blade]

but also again depends on your definition of tanky

[plush gulch]

hehe poe racism

[cobalt blade]

you can very much do a block cap gain on block heatshievr setup

[plush gulch]

idk me when I play a character I try to make it as tanky as I can while getting nice dmg

[cobalt blade]

yer same

[plush gulch]

you would nevber hear me saying it's just a mapper

[cobalt blade]

want atleast 100k max hit with 100m dps as a baseline

[plush gulch]

shut up

[cobalt blade]

(for ele for phys idk 20k's fine)

[plush gulch]

in a way I think nobody that use heatshiver try to make a solid build

[limpid prairie]

dont listen to Nacas unresonable expectations
4 Million is fine 15 K max hit os ok
DPS size isnt everyth

[plush gulch]

it's always for squishy mapper

that want to one shot/freeze everything

and hope for the best

hope is a defensive layer

[plush gulch]

👀

maybe

[cobalt blade]

i wouldnt honestly call it unreasonable just different since i like doing valdos

and thats a good baseline to send yourself into the easy ones

[short prairie]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/mirage/character/IIIMerdinIII-3398/III_Bob_III?i=30&search=items%3DHeatshiver%26sort%3Dlowestmax%26columns%3Dcharacter%252Clevel%252Clife%252Cenergyshield%252Cehp%252Clowestmax%252Cdps%252Ckeystoneskill

did you just say they squishy

[honest heart]

Does anyone know if the charge mastery "3% increased damage per endurance,frenzy, or power charges" means I get 3% damage per charge i have or the highest charge total i have?

[lean urchin]

per charge

[cobalt blade]

per charge very good

[limpid prairie]

woudnt dream of that
thats like building a hardcore character+
forced into meta skills for sure

[plush gulch]

earlier I was asking if you could make a tanky character with many uniques

because I wondering

about that precisely

[honest heart]

Oh shit, im hierophant with 5 power 4 endurance so thats 27%boost?

[plush gulch]

heatshiver was a good example for me

[cobalt blade]

naah just have to play archmage or something till you have a mirror or 2 to toss into a stacker of your choice x3

[full kraken]

almost done, the enchant was basically useless, rip 3div

[plush gulch]

or a unique you run with many other one

[full kraken]

just 2 more white sockets and we are done enough to be happy

[cobalt blade]

or go glad EE and play 2m dps molten strike in valdos on 100d

[full kraken]

+61 int is basically good enough to get there

[elfin shale]

I know its for twisters but what is the vision here

[full kraken]

levelling gems in weapon swap

[elfin shale]

oh lol

[limpid prairie]

not my style xd

[calm yacht]

yes, which isn't super crazy but might be worth the point

[cobalt blade]

fair x3

[plush gulch]

@short prairie ngl this show how good slayer is

[cobalt blade]

its not for everyone

[short prairie]

11 12 links are squishy

[full kraken]

I just need a fuck tonne of int on it so when I weapon swap I dont make all my gear fall off

[livid quarry]

fck i hate this game i didnt check what gear my AG was wearing so it might not have resis on some and way overcapped on others

[cobalt blade]

for sure im in the minority of people who enjoy doing tha or going rly deep into minmaxing

[full kraken]

mostly cuz Im levelling herald of thunder usually which is an int gem

[plush gulch]

well I was saying how I felt not meaning to say it was 100% truth

im happy to see an example of me not being right

[short prairie]

I’m a unique Andy

[plush gulch]

I guess im like naca

[honest heart]

Yeah im leveling. 27% generic damage is nice for 1 point :)

[plush gulch]

for me a solid build is trying to make it the best it can be

not just

the minimum

[plush gulch]

🤔 you are in ssf anyway$

I would never judge your build

and they probably end up being better than my trash one

😂

[cobalt blade]

im considering farming another mirror or so to graba 1p voices just to reach 90 max res but i also rly dont want to deal with the adorned jewel crafting for that

[plush gulch]

I hate seeing builds staying alive on hopium 6 portals defense

idk why

they put me off

[full kraken]

ah.... fuck

you cant +level gems in weapon swap even if the weapon swap satisfies the reqs

[cobalt blade]

you haveto weapon swap for it

and it works

weapon swap level

and theyll gain xp

[livid quarry]

@short prairie so was there situations where u need the frenzy on hit node?

[plush gulch]

@short prairieare you the one playing twister

he is so popular

[lean urchin]

"ssf" btw

[short prairie]

[short prairie]

0

[short prairie]

No

[plush gulch]

hey it was not derogatory

!

I promise

[short prairie]

made myself an 11 sword

It’s not really ssf this league

[lean urchin]

with all those pings u get u might aswell be a pingpong ball

[full kraken]

see the thing is, weapon swapping causes tempest shield to fall off which can get me possibly killed (gladiator)

And it also happens to make me lose my Cast on death portal

[short prairie]

That’s racism

[full kraken]

so now its risky for me to tap that, so I gotta fuck around and find a moderately safe moment to weapon swap, hit level all gems, swap back, re-enable tempest shield

so annoying

[plush gulch]

I respect you a lot for doing ssf

[livid quarry]

i thought it was 8 link can u show again

[cobalt blade]

lol

[plush gulch]

I don"'t dare to try it

I only do it in last epoch

[limpid prairie]

i think i have uh... 75 attributes on my gear no probably 175 dont have a timeless jewel slot to fix it, what to do

[short prairie]

[livid quarry]

how hard was it to craft

[plush gulch]

👀 what

[livid quarry]

i think thats a 9 link

[short prairie]

8 link + squire 3 link = 11 link

[plush gulch]

how did you do it in ssf

even in trade league it's pain

[short prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/just-do-it-shia-la-beouf-do-it-gif-4531935

[plush gulch]

👀

all of this witrhout trade

hero

[livid quarry]

u 3 in sword 3 in squire 3 from sword mods?

[plush gulch]

without scarab

[short prairie]

Ppl count +1 all socketed and 40% more attack damage as “links”

[livid quarry]

senses also plays a ton

gotta admit it thats the secret

[limpid prairie]

i think ele dmg support is 42%

[short prairie]

Ofc that’s the ideal

But I’m not risking it

Don’t have the resources

For recomb

Also ele damage is worse than ruthless for my build

3% less

If I get a diamond belt somehow I’m gonna craft another one but it will be anarchic this time

Since I won’t need the crit bleed wheel anymore

[proper zephyr]

How do I get unique maps this league

[sleek barn]

oh thats funky

[short prairie]

Kirac, betrayal Rin in fortify

[proper zephyr]

Thanks

[lean urchin]

betryal rin for the rare uniques

[sturdy steppe]

is poe 2 server down?

[lean urchin]

try #2┃general

[short prairie]

#2┃general

[sturdy steppe]

oops

[short prairie]

Technically they are the same servers

But still

[onyx adder]

If ur doing fort rin for uniques also set up janus in research

Guarantees t3+ uniques, which includes the four maps which are sometimes annoying to get

[livid quarry]

sense can u teach me how to craft 11 link sword

@short prairie

[short prairie]

shaper sword base alt until 40% more attack damage, elder sword base brutality, woke orb, cannot roll attack, slam to fill prefix, if prefix full, see if attack tag or not, if yes, yolo annul, if not, keep it.

prefix cannot be changed reforge speed

get faster attacks or multistrike

[pulsar ice]

damn, spend 6 div on the warp runegraft and turnes out it's bugged and doesn't work with everlasting sacrifice

[short prairie]

slam until another link

[livid quarry]

i thought it was going to be some recomb thing

[short prairie]

cannot roll attack annul off the useless prefix

[full fossil]

@short prairie can i throw a fish at u

would be pretty funny

[short prairie]

yes

[full fossil]

[short prairie]

not for me version

[slow sonnet]

Managed to YOLO slam this shit, hopefully it can sell for a pretty penny

[short prairie]

recombs are for sc trade

ssf is kind of hard to do recombs

[full kraken]

aight, that side quest is now complete, at the mere cost of 14 divines

maybe more, I wasnt honestly keeping track

[slow sonnet]

Well done

[full kraken]

I now need to perfect divine my belt cuz the last 2 int I need can come from it

[slow sonnet]

Oh that is not enviable

[full kraken]

prolly gonna cost me like 30div lol

[slow sonnet]

Don't count on it, chance is a fickle mistress

Be prepared to spend at least double

[sleek barn]

what is this for

just leveling gems?

[lean urchin]

int stacking tornadoes i assume

[full kraken]

yup

[sleek barn]

yeah i'd assume the black cane and azadi is the main setup lol

noice

[lean urchin]

why is there no bow that gets bonuses if u dont have a quiver?

smh

[sleek barn]

kinda removes the essence of a bow

what is a bow with no quiver

a show

gottem

[lean urchin]

keep arrows in mouth, between teeth

[sleek barn]

food for thought

[bleak quiver]

not a bug btw, intended

[normal hedge]

you farm 250+ alts per map

[bleak quiver]

bases are the hard part

[normal hedge]

no they arent

[bleak quiver]

and rright bbellow

[sleek barn]

why does the buff icon have horns

[pulsar ice]

if it's written on wiki doesn't mean it's not a bug tho... no mentions of this in game

[bleak quiver]

there are many buffs that arer also not affected

you can check in poedb for that, dont need to mention in game

[short prairie]

no, not this issue, it's double influence recombs

[pulsar ice]

poe 1 lacks so much clarity in how they're communicating stuff

[short prairie]

if i get diamond belt and recomb this sword my dps is gonna be skyrocketed

[lean urchin]

poe got layers, like an onion

[bleak quiver]

yeah, lots of shit going on

look at worms for example

those are a nightmare...

[pulsar ice]

warp runegraft should say, "some buffs expire 30% slower"

[bleak quiver]

that dsnt add anything, actually makes people ask more questions

[final owl]

"all scalable buffs expire 30% slower"

[pulsar ice]

and it would be better if they do

[sleek barn]

i like worm

i gotta make worm build

hmmm

nulls inclination body swap

[bleak quiver]

join the patheon of worm blasterrs

they cant be body swapped

they have no body

[sleek barn]

yeah im not body swapping with them

nulls inclination trigger body swap of sacrifice

[bleak quiver]

oh

[sleek barn]

and then i sack uh

dark marionettes

man i already did that

fine i'll do spirit charges

[bleak quiver]

sack yourself

[sleek barn]

im not a minion

or am i

fuck

[bleak quiver]

yep, you are

[sleek barn]

https://tenor.com/view/pathofexile-path-of-exile-path-of-exile-gif-20102889

[bleak quiver]

the scalling is shit tho

[sleek barn]

what bodyswap?

[bleak quiver]

yeah, self target casting body swap

[sleek barn]

yeah

i also can't trigger with nulls inclination

[normal hedge]

You can do it senses, ure op

[bleak quiver]

i tried it with cws unearth, its funny at least

[sleek barn]

sounds like seizure material

[bleak quiver]

funnily enough, the biggest problem is that you dont teleport enough

and run out of shit to hit you

[sleek verge]

What's the cheapest build for the Uber challenge? I just want the challenge not to farm them.

[bleak quiver]

cast on death discharge

[short prairie]

i doubt ill ever get a diamond belt

[short prairie]

can i do this build in hc?

[bleak quiver]

yeah, once

[sleek verge]

Less meme please. I have 200D

[bleak quiver]

not a meme

its really the cheapest way

but if you want to do a actual build...

maybe some life stack shit, youu can set up a minimum setup for 80div

[sleek barn]

can't you do like

[sleek verge]

Okay, thanks

[sleek barn]

super budget poison minion pact BV

[bleak quiver]

yeah minion pact too

the gems might be cheap now with bad corrupts

[full kraken]

I need something new to farm I think, Im gettin bored of the current farm

[steel light]

imagine this is crop rotation

[slow sonnet]

I mean you just need 30 million DPS to do ubers

If you have no defense

[heavy frost]

How do i use this??

[lean urchin]

anotha one

[slow sonnet]

Tell Tujen, he's interested in fishing

[lean urchin]

its a running meme that poe has fishing.

[bleak quiver]

cool, decided to upgrade that meme and got 2 cruelties...

[slow sonnet]

Congrats, you're rich

[bleak quiver]

after using 50 coins on dd and not getting it...

[bleak quiver]

its worthless

[heavy frost]

thanks so just keep him around for the memes

[slow sonnet]

Wait are you SSF?

Why didn't you just buy it

[bleak quiver]

cuz of couse it dsnt exist

who tf uses coins on bodyswap

[slow sonnet]

So you're rich as long as you can fleece another person that wants to play with bodyswap

[gritty garnet]

probably exists on the transfig option

[full fossil]

do you want a ham sandwich

[bleak quiver]

i checked of course, none on trade

[full fossil]

because im hungy

[slow sonnet]

So you pay Mathil 50 bucks to play Bodyswap, it becomes popular and the divines will rain!*

*don't do this it probably counts as RMT

[lean urchin]

thats why u dont pay, just encourage him each stream

[full kraken]

how do you approach crafting a weapon like this?

specifically, if you dont care at all about the attack speed and purely want as much base phys dmg as possible

[bleak quiver]

oh thats easy

the probblem is the rest

you just recomb different phys mods until you get it, and being in a good base is expensive

[full kraken]

what 1h melee weapon has the highest base phys dmg

[bleak quiver]

then you just hit the luck of the exalt roll the mod you want

[full kraken]

I assume its an axe? or a mace?

[bleak quiver]

i dont know, but its probably axe

reaver has goated stats

[full kraken]

royal axe has 54-100

[bleak quiver]

heist bases are good too, but for pure phys overqual is better

[surreal mulch]

you ever shop for a really good rare then remember an hour later that you have a BiS unique for that slot

[full kraken]

we want a weapon for spelblade support

so stuff like rage on hit does nothing for us

purely just as much flat phys as possible

[bleak quiver]

oh then energy blade is the best

but for phys...

yeah, axe has the highest

[full kraken]

Gavel is technically higher, 54-101

[bleak quiver]

ive seen axes used more often for that

[full kraken]

royal axe has way lower attr requirements though

for 1 single point less flat phys

[bleak quiver]

but you should probably go for the cheapest base

[full kraken]

so its prolly best

[bleak quiver]

since you will be deleting a lot of them

also, isnt there a unique with really high phys for a 1h?

[full kraken]

Id want a 30% quality base

[full kraken]

not really it seems

not even remotely close to what a rare can hit

[gritty garnet]

rebuke but that's mixed

[surreal mulch]

they should add herald of gerald

[full kraken]

oh... fuck me.... I... probably want this mod on my ideal weapon tho, thats a LOT of damage for me

maybe I instead recombinator it up so I can have this mod too

[bleak quiver]

yeah, the good ones are mixed like rebuke and vulconus and white wind

[full kraken]

Id have to sit and spend so many divs on tailor orbs though too

[cobalt blade]

nother thing to note is that if you want absolute bis synth should beat elder influ lol

but have fun making that

[full kraken]

but what about 30% quality elder

[surreal mulch]

i advise against doing a phys build

[cobalt blade]

30 quality synth

[full kraken]

Ive been playing a phys build for awhile

[surreal mulch]

they bad

[full kraken]

so theres an existing axe for 2mirrors atm

[surreal mulch]

in comparison

[full kraken]

thats to buy it though, they might let me mirror it for cheaper

how long would it take me to amass 2 mirrors

or would impale effect suffix, with only 20% quality, on royal axe, actually be better

lets pob it

so this is wrath slayer, the 2 mirror axe

[bleak quiver]

i dont think a synth beats elder warlord phys suffixes

of course, thats probably even harder to craft...

nightmare material

[full kraken]

this is with my theoretical perfect rolled up recombinator'd gavel

3x T1 prefix, essence suffix, bench double dmg on

[cobalt blade]

double influ prob beats it admitedly but i dont actually knowi f those are exclusive with each other

[full kraken]

I think they are

[cobalt blade]

not e verythings properly tagged in poedb for the weirder mods

or for hybrid mods

[bleak quiver]

true, let me check

[full kraken]

and that becomes like 100x more expensive to craft, whereas recombinator a plain ole gavel 20% quality with T1 mods on it is... actually viable sounding?

[cobalt blade]

i mean ye your dropping a massive amount o shit

[bleak quiver]

pretty sure that in merc there were stat stick with both for warcry merc

[full kraken]

its definitely way more dps than my current setup with black cane with 11/11 phantasms

black cane phantasms max out at about 38mil, but thats with 11/11 up, and they tend to die... a lot, very fast

[cobalt blade]

tho one thing if your essence spamming have fun getting merciless

xd

[full kraken]

especially down here at delve depth 700 they dont actually stay up so my dps plummets

[full kraken]

I could just recomb it no?

[cobalt blade]

ah ye ac tually i do remember seeing those i think now that you mention it

[bleak quiver]

in poedb they dont share tags yeah

[cobalt blade]

yer but essence is exlusive and its a 4 mod recomb and iirc theres no suffix you can use on 1 hand weapon to keep that exclusive safe

so its just a pure pita to make the 1p1s and 2p1s bases for

[full kraken]

lets take a look at avg essences needed

wait how hard is this if its just fractured tho

[cobalt blade]

its still a pita to hit hybrid and flat

at t1

[full kraken]

oh thats not even that awful tbh

how expensive is dread anyways

[cobalt blade]

you fucked something up

[full kraken]

thats hitting both

[cobalt blade]

Yer

[full kraken]

we dont need to hit both

[cobalt blade]

your not recombing with fracture since its tied to base

[full kraken]

depends how expensive it is

[cobalt blade]

50% chance to delete regardless of actual chance to hit anyway

[bleak quiver]

forgot 30% qual to add to the nightmare

[full kraken]

if theres lots of bases though, thats not a big deal

[cobalt blade]

i mean your still going to be essence close to 10k times on average

[bleak quiver]

yeah, this will be a hard craft with essence suffix

[tranquil umbra]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071173490100678738/1092550453667037294/image0-8.gif

[cobalt blade]

+im pretty sure youll run out of bases before hitting it for fractured merciless on good mace base xd

[full kraken]

whats the odds of success if we do 1P + 1S to try and end up with 1P1S

25%?

[cobalt blade]

its 2 60% chances

So a bit better

[full kraken]

36%, not bad

[cobalt blade]

1 mod in pool is 60 for 1 mod 40 for 0

[full kraken]

like maybe we just buy gavels already with merc pref on them

prolly can find lots of those randomly for sale for a few c

[zenith peak]

[full kraken]

and then recomb them with dread suffix

[cobalt blade]

Yer have fun isolating them though

[full kraken]

yeah but if its like... 20c per try we can risk it

[zenith peak]

and if you do force pure phys youre just locked into 2h axe

[cobalt blade]

and sorting between the hybrid inc phys ones (tho not too bad with a basic search)

[cobalt blade]

staffs also fine tbf

just requires a bit more to get going

[zenith peak]

inpale is a meme now tho

[cobalt blade]

Trutru

[zenith peak]

swords are cosmetic

[sleek barn]

raaaah

for the challenge

[cobalt blade]

surely a good hit

[tranquil umbra]

for your final challenge

[sleek barn]

...

[tranquil umbra]

let yo bih run a void valdo

[zenith peak]

my BF champ build isnt even good but like a 650 pdps 1h sword should be able to carry me

[sleek barn]

2x crit dmg, 1x cws, 1x ele prolif, 1x ele focus

[tranquil umbra]

cws

crying

[bleak quiver]

you can use the easy.exile tool to search by modifier name

and boom

[full kraken]

yeah see lots of these exist on trade like this

[cobalt blade]

no interest in using some random ass trade tool but i did mention its not too bad lol

[cobalt blade]

yer thats not isolated though since u need empty suff

[zenith peak]

mfw every champ build is ele focused

[bleak quiver]

its the same thing that adds dust value to trades (no idea why its not a feature yet...), only used that part before

[full kraken]

easy

[cobalt blade]

[zenith peak]

genuine question why mace over axe

[bleak quiver]

now you just need another 30

[cobalt blade]

They are doing spell blade rather than attacks

[zenith peak]

wait is pdps pretty much the same?

ah

[bleak quiver]

yeah

[cobalt blade]

admittedly i also have no clue if maces have higher flat baseline or not but it wouldnt surprise me

[zenith peak]

swords

[tranquil umbra]

isn't foulborn ghostwrithe better

[gritty garnet]

you don't need the s part of dps

[cobalt blade]

yes

[bleak quiver]

its worse phys max, same avrg

[zenith peak]

yeah i was jw about maces in general

do ppl still run flesh and stone?

[gritty garnet]

yes

[zenith peak]

in blood stance

[gritty garnet]

I haven't since they changed the maim thing

[tranquil umbra]

oh wait right they want phys damage

[zenith peak]

apparently they have to be inside of you for it to be effective

[cobalt blade]

rarely in blood

[zenith peak]

haven't really played in a few years

[gritty garnet]

but if you're already using blood it's there

[cobalt blade]

usually only if ur playing blood and sand as well

and have the extra reserve space

[bleak quiver]

77.5 vs 76

[zenith peak]

mods got me

am i SILLY or is it impossible to tell how big pride aura is

[cobalt blade]

low key id go axe just because of that dog shit str requirement

212 with inc att requirement tempering is pain

[gritty garnet]

you'll only be able to see its radius 1 month of the year

[bleak quiver]

yeah the str req is comical

[zenith peak]

take me back to unlocking crafting recipes through alva mods

[full kraken]

ez game

okay so, whats next step, getting a 2P1S to recomb with right?

[ebon tendon]

Pro

[full kraken]

is A+B with only caring abotu getting A better odds, than just A+nothing

[zenith peak]

WHY IS MACE IMPALE A THING NOW

GGG ACTUALLY WANTS TO RUIN ME

[bleak quiver]

its for spellblade, its just a stat stick

[full kraken]

or do I repeat this process now and make another 1P1S item, but with different prefix, and combine those

[zenith peak]

700dps 1h sword or bust

gl

[full kraken]

IE now I go after hybrid inc phys + impale?

[drowsy eagle]

if mace can impale I want to stun with my dagger

[full kraken]

also I wanna put a random aspect on both right, to jack up my odds of success?

of impale transferring

[zenith peak]

better be able to use swords for all slams now

[zenith peak]

jesust

[cobalt blade]

no

[zenith peak]

has increased max life gone down over the years on the tree? istg most people are at like 150%

[cobalt blade]

This doesn't work with recombs anymore

[cobalt blade]

Nah just people putting more into clusters this league

life% on the trees been the same for a while

[bleak quiver]

last time they changed was up

[cobalt blade]

/the past few leagues

[zenith peak]

is spell block still gutted

[cobalt blade]

wdym by gutted

[zenith peak]

because spell suppression

[bleak quiver]

was it ever gutted?

[zenith peak]

like not a thing anymore

[bleak quiver]

people used suppression AND block always

[cobalt blade]

its very much a thing

[zenith peak]

no it used to be pretty abundant iirc

[short prairie]

diamond PLS

[short prairie]

F

[zenith peak]

how

jesus i have to catch up on PoE

[cobalt blade]

op as fuck jewel

[zenith peak]

dont you have to ship to a specific port to get tattoos?

[cobalt blade]

yer

i play trade tho so lol

fuck kingsmarch

[cosmic reef]

green

[zenith peak]

shiii which one

[cobalt blade]

valako stormrider be int

[cosmic reef]

look up an alliee or palstrom guide to learn kingsmarch

[thick goblet]

allie

[zenith peak]

ive somehow gotten three shipments in a row of only gear

[bleak quiver]

i dont think you need to watch a guuide for kingsmarch

[zenith peak]

i fiend for tattoos

[bleak quiver]

thing is simple as shit

[cosmic reef]

nah you do its complex

[cobalt blade]

you kinda only need to know that like 4m is the cap for tattooos dust doesnt scale tattoos and which port gives what

[zenith peak]

apparently my mines have like nothing to mine anymore

[bleak quiver]

they are very good

[cobalt blade]

all of which can be gained from wiki

[zenith peak]

ahh

yeah i just have to spend 12 hours a day catching up

[full kraken]

wait... do you think recombinating a stranded gavels with the target suffixes would actually be more likely to succeed by abusing woke orb beastlock'ing with 70+ strands?

[cobalt blade]

how exactly are you abusing woke orb beast locking to keep an essence mod

[bleak quiver]

yeah essence mod

[full kraken]

nah Id abandon the essence mod

and instead do a 30% gavel and go after the 2 influenced suffixes

[cobalt blade]

then its better to just recomb pre and elder slam i think

[bleak quiver]

with no essence mod this is just a recombination tutooriall

smash all the prefix then elder/warlord slam

[full kraken]

wait can you force the elder suffix

[bleak quiver]

no

[cobalt blade]

you just recomb pre 5 times

[zenith peak]

jeweled foil still best 1h sword?

[full kraken]

okay but at this step, wouldnt you risk bricking it with a bad suffix

[zenith peak]

even if not crit iirc

[cobalt blade]

but also if you go elder you have to swap back to axe

[full kraken]

is it not present on mace?

[cobalt blade]

you just sell the ones that dont hit your %

no

[bleak quiver]

yes, but thats how you craft pphys weapons

its the classic phys weapon craft, just smash prefix together, aug speed, then warlord slam and pray

[cobalt blade]

warlord ones on mace apparently ig but its worse than elder

[full kraken]

right okay but what if instead you beastlock woke orb together a warlord+elder mace

and simultaneously you check tempering orb for 15% phys boost

[bleak quiver]

the warlord ellder mods are suffixes

[full kraken]

yes

[cobalt blade]

axe not mace but uh again good luck getting all 3 pre kek

[full kraken]

why axe?

mace is 1 flat phys higher

[cobalt blade]

^

[full kraken]

why?

[cobalt blade]

where is your % inc phys on mace elder as i said

[full kraken]

ah kk, so yes, the mod isnt present on mace kk

okay so, what Im thinkin tho is strands

[cobalt blade]

strands arent that good

[bleak quiver]

you would need to hope for 3 mods

[cobalt blade]

they are good but not that good

[bleak quiver]

and then that they ALL upgrade

[full kraken]

yeah, but we can also hope for hitting the unravel after too

[cobalt blade]

youd have to hit t1 t1 t2 and use minimal strands

literally 0 chance if oyu dont

[full kraken]

yup

[cobalt blade]

and well you could easily go thru hundreds or thousands of imprints for that so have fun

[bleak quiver]

like, you can survive with 2 mods and a caft

[full kraken]

the big thing here is: we can save a morbillion divines on tempering orbs and also safely use a 30% base

[cobalt blade]

or well beastlocks but yknow what i mean

[full kraken]

I did prolly more than 150 beastlocks to make my chest so Im kinda used to it now

[cobalt blade]

your chest is easy

your going fo rcommon mods

[full kraken]

I have noticed that the strands really really really seem to bias the results towards lower odds mods

[cobalt blade]

your not going for 25 weight merc

[bleak quiver]

you are underestimating how hard it is to make phys weapons

[full kraken]

no Ive made em before I know how bad it is

Ive got a triple T1 phys bow in ruthless for context, I definitely know how insane it can be

[cobalt blade]

ngl with recombs existing in ruthless thats many times easier than this

[full kraken]

so thats the question, is strand beastlock gonna be cheaper than recombinator (but then needing to spend a morbillion divines on enchants)

like your looking at prolly 300+ divs on the enchanting process easy if we dont beastlock

[cobalt blade]

cheaper no

[cobalt blade]

if you dont want overqual no

[bleak quiver]

you can survive with hybrid + flat + craft at least

[full kraken]

cuz tempering orbs are about 3D/pop and your gonna need like... 100+

[bleak quiver]

but it might be worse than 3 t1 no suffix

[cobalt blade]

im surprised theres not more actually

normally you can buy a bunch from heisters

for the shit bases

so i guess you do need the tempering probably just less on the market from enchant heists

[gritty garnet]

how are you going to transfer the enchant onto overquality

[cobalt blade]

^

if you dont want overqual

[full kraken]

yeah I think thats mandatory tho

[cobalt blade]

normally you could just buy like 20 of em to recomb with

[bleak quiver]

settle its slightly better than 3 t1

[cobalt blade]

but ye with them just not rly existing you just overqual i guess

[bleak quiver]

if you hit the exalt its 50 flat better tho

[full kraken]

Im gonna go for it methinks

dont even need to elevate weapons too right

[cobalt blade]

yer

[bleak quiver]

yeah, not elevated

[full kraken]

lol this part is easy at least

[prime needle]

is that a 1h bleed axe?

what build is that for?

[surreal mulch]

apparently you cant use fb moonbenders wing with flicker because the lightning warp interrupts multistrike...

day ruined

[bleak quiver]

spellblade stat stick

[full kraken]

oh right wait we are stranding this so I have to hit it off uh... I gotta see if harvest or fossil is better, its usually harvest

oh hot dawg

[prime needle]

nice

i liked fossil better for armours but would imagine harvest better for weapon

dense fossil was nice

from a time perspective at least

[full kraken]

I think we can keep on -3 for the regal, thats decent

[opaque sphinx]

wonder if i can make a glad autobomber

[bleak quiver]

glad can do anything yeah

[opaque sphinx]

DO?

or hot

[bleak quiver]

if you call DO an autobomber, then yeah, there are even videos for that

hot is cooler tho

[opaque sphinx]

what else do u call a build that doesnt press button and clears screen

[bleak quiver]

rightneous fire is an autobomber then?

[opaque sphinx]

i would consider it one yeah

[bleak quiver]

i guess cws would also be a option then

[final owl]

as long as there is some kind of explode

[gritty garnet]

if you don't want to run heralds you can do hidden blade bleed + cf

[opaque sphinx]

that sounds funny af

[short prairie]

double leather belts

[stray sedge]

what lol, like a wurms molt or something?

[glad yoke]

thats black barya those are screams of the dessicated belts

[full kraken]

if ggg could please add a craft bench to bestiary lol

[drowsy eagle]

that guy has enough heads to make a headhunter

[stray sedge]

no but like... you can get two from the same boss? I didn't think boss drops worked like that

[bleak quiver]

it can only drop one, its probably a wurms molt

[glad yoke]

i have no idea

[steel light]

why does it drop double on a ssf guy?

[twin arch]

ess ess eff bee tee dublewe

[full kraken]

aight its nice to have a new project, gotta get back to the grind

I hate how every project ends up with me sitting in beastlock hell tho

[bleak quiver]

you chose that hell this time tbh

[full kraken]

I chose it last time too XD

dude holy shit though this automation phase run wither step combo goes hard in delve

cuz the carts speed scales off your movespeed so even though im super fast with lightning warp, the cart stays slow

[cobalt blade]

yer having both is so dumb op

top tier random 4 link usage

[opaque sphinx]

hidden blade seems bad

[bleak quiver]

it is

[opaque sphinx]

[surreal mulch]

20 trauma into divine shield = big regen

[twin arch]

i paused my path of exile to be here

[surreal mulch]

you didn't need to pause it

[opaque sphinx]

how do u use farewell to flesh without coruscating or shavs

[ebon cloak]

Hmm I'm really curious how all the mirage crossover stuff will go core, if at all

what if we dont get to keep volatiles

[bleak quiver]

they put too much work into the mirage stuff for it to not go core

besides mirage itself, it will all 100% go core, they dont even interfere that much with the game structure

[final owl]

volatiles will stay 100%

[crisp obsidian]

In that case you invest into them now(and coins), save them for standard, sell them when they are at a very high price and buy alt arts

[surreal mulch]

you don't. welcome to life res

[ebon cloak]

ive never looked into alt artsa

[surreal mulch]

every ivory tower user has coruscating

[ebon cloak]

how much does the mageblood alt go for? or is it sellable

[gritty garnet]

it's a gateway drug to poe2 vaal orbs

[opaque sphinx]

[surreal mulch]

but tbf ivory tower also has the chaos mom layer

so you only need to coruscate when low

[opaque sphinx]

yeah i refuse to play a build where my entire defense layer is a single flask

[surreal mulch]

use two

[crisp obsidian]

It only has an mtx

[surreal mulch]

you can also use hidden templar ff

though he has some really strong notables so

[ebon cloak]

oh it was an old mtx

unobtainable now?

[opaque sphinx]

nah playing glad

[surreal mulch]

yeah the first few kirak vaults were peak

I regret not taking one of them

I didn't know they'd run out of ideas at some point

[bleak quiver]

yeah, they where the best shit they put foward, but they ran out of good uniques

[opaque sphinx]

why never see doryani hots

[halcyon prawn]

no they stopped doing those cuz it was restricted to uniques and not everyone could get

[surreal mulch]

nah

[halcyon prawn]

wasnt that what they said?

[surreal mulch]

plus they had like,variety

[surreal mulch]

that's more of a cope

[bleak quiver]

they just ran out of good ones, literally

every good unique that existed has one

[surreal mulch]

also most builds use watchers eye

[gritty garnet]

I got season 4 for red gull shrines

[surreal mulch]

not like most but a lot of them

[halcyon prawn]

they couldve started doing these every few updates then

at the very start

[surreal mulch]

probably yeah

[bleak quiver]

nah, its easier to shit out bad armour sets

[surreal mulch]

I mean at some point they ran out of uniques but the armor sets were still good

[gritty garnet]

yeah stuffing them full of old boxes (with dupes) isn't fun

[surreal mulch]

with like mechanics

but now there's an armor set with one mechanic and it's bad

[opaque sphinx]

armour good

lets me fly

[gritty garnet]

I considered buying vault pass 1 but archneme on launch was so bad

[surreal mulch]

oh

[opaque sphinx]

smh glad cant use annhilating light

[sinful cove]

fuckkk i just trashed a div

[final owl]

easy come easy go

[small steeple]

it's ok. I rolled past mageblood a few days ago using ancient orb

[sleek verge]

Can we delete BV?

[halcyon flicker]

and thats why you always have a couple bases and just use the search feature in your stash to highlight when you hit something

[surreal mulch]

idk why I'm so obsessed with speed when I have a "20 ranged minions" character that will always have more clear speed than anything an attack build could possibly do

[sleek verge]

Keep minion pact but delete BV

[opaque sphinx]

bv not issue

minion pact issue

[halcyon prawn]

next time do the couple bases thing

[final owl]

why do you care that it exists regardless

[sleek verge]

I hope mirage doesn't go core.

[small steeple]

yep, lesson learned

[final owl]

it'll be gone next league anyway

[small steeple]

[surreal mulch]

i hope they remove pact

[sleek verge]

I hope they remove the game 😢

[slow sonnet]

It's a fine mechanic, definitely won't be going to the tree

[sleek verge]

I wonder what a scarab would look like

[slow sonnet]

Also I suspect mirage maps will be the thing that gets hit the hardest

[opaque sphinx]

what other autobomber options exist?
RF
DO
hidden blade
CF
HoT
wardloop
?

[surreal mulch]

you can add mirage if you remove torment

[halcyon prawn]

they will still have to change/add some stuff to the atlas tree with the removal tho

of mirage

[surreal mulch]

herald of the hive

[slow sonnet]

I mean, would that be bad...?

[surreal mulch]

generals cry

[sleek verge]

Can we remove abyss?

It's very annoying

[surreal mulch]

wait does it count as autobomber if you cyclone?

probably not right

[halcyon prawn]

need poe2 abyss

in this game

[slow sonnet]

FR FR

Don't even change the mobs, just make the mechanics better

And man PoE 1 abyss feels like it drops nothing lmao

[surreal mulch]

the abyss tree is such bait

[slow sonnet]

I mean it seems to just be "want to level fast"

And that's boring

[sleek verge]

Breach is better for levelling though.

[slow sonnet]

Abyss needs a reward choice passive like Legion and Breach

[opaque sphinx]

how dfoes this work? dont u need to apply ailments

[slow sonnet]

With juicing, Abyss is much easier and safer if you solo

[surreal mulch]

they should have removed abyss from deli at least

even if you did it's not like the eyes would be scarce or anything

[slow sonnet]

True

[surreal mulch]

which is why I asked if cyclone counts as autobomber

[opaque sphinx]

ah

no

[slow sonnet]

My guess is no since it is a skill you use

[surreal mulch]

it should tbh

[opaque sphinx]

maybe to others it does but i dont wanna press cyclone

[surreal mulch]

I guess the term is true one button

[sleek verge]

I wonder what Harby rework will be, hmm

[surreal mulch]

already happened

they died

[final owl]

harby rework = model changed to look like tobias funke.

[slow sonnet]

Harb but they have actual model work

[full kraken]

this is the deepest Ive ever gone with twisters ngl, I think I can maybe hit 900 too, maybe even 1000 if I switch my FF/FF jewels to fortitude

[slow sonnet]

Remember when Beyond was just bandits but red?

[surreal mulch]

and hit hard yes

[sleek verge]

Does anyone even run exiles?

[surreal mulch]

me

in ritual

[slow sonnet]

It's got huge synergy with Ritual

[sleek verge]

Okay

[surreal mulch]

(if it hits)

[drowsy eagle]

go deeper babe, I'm not feeling anything

[slow sonnet]

Comedically huge, you can get 4 altars easily with at least 1 unique each

[surreal mulch]

weird

[slow sonnet]

It needs to hit obv

[surreal mulch]

tbf I use 0 rogue scarabs I got 4 ritual scarabs and vessel

[slow sonnet]

Sometimes the exile is in the ritual, dies in the ritual and it doesn't count

[surreal mulch]

maybe they should... add more scarab slots... but... make the slots locked based on how strong the scarab is...

[slow sonnet]

So like, 10 slots but horned scarabs take up 5, rusteds only 1, golden 2, winged 3, like that?

[sleek verge]

I don't want to live in Haunted Mansion anymore 😢

[slow sonnet]

Would be interesting

[surreal mulch]

so I can justify running titanic scarabs,mostly

[surreal mulch]

no like there's one horned slot like 3 rusted slots stuff like that

[bleak quiver]

you can apply ailments in any way for it, example, blade fall of trarthus or explosions

[surreal mulch]

obc they'd have to retier some of the current scarabs

[slow sonnet]

Oh so a slot for each

[bleak quiver]

its probably the best autobomber rn, but the most expensive too

[surreal mulch]

maybe like "there are zero rusted scarabs of any of the major league mechanics"

[opaque sphinx]

ah i see ty

[slow sonnet]

Wouldn't mind if they homogenized scarab appearances a bit

They're kinda all over the place

Appearance wise

[surreal mulch]

so like you do have to actually choose some cool but otherwise insignificant scarab like titanic or like anarchy

[slow sonnet]

3 rusted legion scarabs

1 million monolith

[surreal mulch]

legion is major

[slow sonnet]

Legion is big, yeah

[surreal mulch]

oh yeah I guess they could reintroduce the fukin goddess scarabs lol

[slow sonnet]

What was that one

[surreal mulch]

something like "the trial drops imbued offering" or something

[slow sonnet]

Ah, I see

But that's a passive now

[surreal mulch]

now afaik it's only a passive yeah

and kind of a small chance

[split maple]

its not that bad, its 25%

was better last league with special map crafting option for it

coz you could spam eagon tears with map device option is free with that

[bleak quiver]

i made so much money with that shit lmao

[split maple]

so had like 3 or so fancy offerings per tear if it proced that

[bleak quiver]

sad that they removed it, and the price of them barely changed

[halcyon flicker]

There's one currency making strat that people seem to ignore or just not be aware of I think

You know people pay upwards to 20 div per portal for rare hideouts?

[surreal mulch]

nvm I think I hallucinated that

probably just the crafting option yeah

[final owl]

if only selling hideout portals wasn't tedious and a pain in the arse

[bleak quiver]

its a finite strat tho

also not that unknown

[surreal mulch]

it's giga boring and you can run a lot of other strats together with that. like starfall craters

[surreal mulch]

yeah and then you get your account locked for several hours selling

it's probably bad money per hour

[halcyon flicker]

Exactly. Wishes, craters, map drops, heist, lab trials

[bleak quiver]

the problem is the "selling" part

[halcyon flicker]

Harvest too

[bleak quiver]

you stop all of that other shit for it

[split maple]

got these from 360 maps this weekend (ran 480 rushes but didnt spec labs in for first 120)