1┃general

[frigid wedge]

100% increased magnitude for 1 side

[split palm]

because figuring out which half to nuke off

[frigid wedge]

more quant

[split palm]

is pain

[nocturne maple]

dextral sinistral if you enjoy rolling maps

which is nobody

[full kraken]

Does pob have a way to locate your highest dmg notables for cluster jewels across any jewel for fog crafting?

[split palm]

I won't be rolling

110 quant 8 mod + 40+ ps

[frigid wedge]

look for highest dps megalo

[full kraken]

Ah yeah megalo search right right

[split palm]

maybe this...

[frigid wedge]

where quant

[split palm]

doubling, 2x magic pack size (does this evcen work for harvest) and 2x svalinn copium

[cosmic raptor]

Quantiti

[split palm]

can drop svalinn cope

[frigid wedge]

literally just grab 4 mortals

[nocturne maple]

I like using escalation corruption, just to sustain 8 mods

[split palm]

true...

[nocturne maple]

literal pain trying to find a person who has enough maps to buy from

[split palm]

I uhhh

just buy my maps

[frigid wedge]

i need to farm 8 mod mirages

[split palm]

I wonder what map is the best to run

[cosmic raptor]

Doones

[frigid wedge]

haunted

[nocturne maple]

jv, dunes, mesa

[frigid wedge]

u want ur harvest in the most mirages no?

[split palm]

hauted would be better no?

since it covers like the most of the map

[nocturne maple]

all of those have rather consistent mirage harvests

if you really wanted to have 100% consistent mirage harvest, then haunted is fine

[full kraken]

Has anyone run statistical analysis on mirage overlaps.

Ive grown suspicious map choice doesnt matter after running 200 mesas

[frigid wedge]

mirage consistency in those maps is based primarily on how many atlas blockers u have

[full kraken]

Cuz very often the mirage will 100% envelope on all sides the boss arena including entrance, yet not include it

[frigid wedge]

mirage most often spawns next to blockable mechanics or the map boss iirc

[full kraken]

Indicating to me ggg has logic hard controlling content inclusion in mirages

[frigid wedge]

are u blocking mechanics

[unique silo]

what do i type in the stat filter?

[bleak quiver]

at least for single spawn mechanics, it does not matter

[leaden gust]

i ran harvest on jv

[full kraken]

Source?

[sage falcon]

forbidden flame

[leaden gust]

and i think like 1 in 60 maps didnt have harvest in mirage

[bleak quiver]

ive run more than 800 maps of ultimatum this league, every map boild down to 75% of mirrage hitting it

[sage falcon]

and the dropdown within the mod itself

[full kraken]

Have you recorded your findings on various maps?

[frigid wedge]

In areas that contain mirages, many league mechanics that can be copied by the mirage will generally tend to spawn close to the mirage if possible. It will also copy unique monsters found in act areas or map bosses.

Instanced mechanics (e.g. Syndicate safehouses, Labyrinth Trials, Vaal side areas, Abyssal Depths) will not be duplicated by mirages.
Doors that transition to other areas in the map will not spawn, except for ones the leads to a boss arena.
Mirrors of Delirium and Sentinels will spawn in a mirage if the zone contains one, even if one was not within its area.
The Viridian Wildwood will not be duplicated by mirages.
Master missions will not be duplicated by mirages.
Eldritch altar can spawn in mirage areas, and their modifiers are not shared between the main map and the mirage area
Mirages in Valdo's maps do not duplicate Valdo's map rewards.

[bleak quiver]

most of it is on emiracles server (cws discord)

[frigid wedge]

from le wiki

[unique silo]

Holy fuck. 10 divs ohh hell nahh😂

[bleak quiver]

if its for a mechanic that has multiple little things spawn, then layour matters

but for like, ulti/harvest, dont bother

[halcyon flicker]

You can also force mirages to be more likely to appear closer to the boss area if you block all mechanics

Not like you'd want to do that but yeah

[split palm]

steve is tunneling again xd

[full kraken]

My gut says the way they designed maps, based on prior posts they wrote, is there are fixed spawn points for content in a map.

Theyve manually painted where mirages spawn, and ensured the painted in region contains always the same number of content spawn points

Thats how Id approach the challenge myself, and we know ggg has fixed spawn points in maps for content (theyve mentioned these prior in patch notes)

[halcyon flicker]

It is probably just some math

[sage falcon]

so like 30m at most

[halcyon flicker]

Based on how many units of the map is covered

[bleak quiver]

they 100% have desired places to spawn

[halcyon flicker]

All content does

[bleak quiver]

but they also have some sort of algorithm to when it going to pair with a mechanic or not

[shrewd fiber]

what are some of the fastest movement builds this league?

[bleak quiver]

with everything blocked, it can still spawn with no mechanic in its area

[shrewd fiber]

looking for something fun / off meta

[frigid wedge]

remember last league when half urao content got force moved off to the side

[split palm]

charlatan BV probably

[full kraken]

The interesting question is, does the mirage "influence" content to actually spawn inside its region or is it just deterministic to look that way

[pulsar ice]

any build with accel shrine

[frigid wedge]

accel belt toxic rain

is top of ninja

[shrewd fiber]

wait you can sort by MS on ninja ?

[bleak quiver]

top right

you can change the columns to whatever you want

[unique silo]

Bro witchbane is like 13Div as well. Is there no cheap way for explosions ffs

[sage falcon]

that should not be difficult with any decent strat

[hardy palm]

Does the Map Tier affect the amount of Tree Hiveblood you get?

[split palm]

probably

[frigid wedge]

herald of ash feels like explode if u do hit dmg

[shrewd fiber]

bro this is potentially REVOLUATIONARY information, this is what i was looking for lmao

[unique silo]

Lemme have look at it

[split palm]

honestly, not bad from 1 map

[sage falcon]

bit over 2 div

[frigid wedge]

setup so cursed even the jewels r hiding

[shrewd fiber]

looking at that build rn, bro has 15k dps 😭

[bleak quiver]

its heist

they dont even attack

[shrewd fiber]

ohhhhh heist runners

[sage falcon]

first time ive seen the highwayman being used lol

i guess that makes sense

[shrewd fiber]

can i make sure theyre like, norm al clearing builds or something lol

[bleak quiver]

make it at least x amount of dps

[unique silo]

Oriaths end apply to minions as well?

[dry tree]

Nope

If it doesn't say it does, it doesn't

[unique silo]

Fk

[frigid wedge]

literally just search as blade vortex, half of them are minion pact bv

[sage falcon]

if your build is bad you can do like

haunted mansion operatives farming

[frigid wedge]

asenaths gentle touch and a way for you to hit is best bet

[split palm]

that shit is stupidly profitable

[frigid wedge]

or put them on ag

[frigid wedge]

strongbox?

[split palm]

but

your wrist will make you want to cut it off after a few hours

[bleak quiver]

haunted mansion terrors + awakening + 3 shrine is also easy and profitable

[sage falcon]

what if you just hide the shittier scarabs

i did it for a bit and i wondered why i even bothered to pick them up

[mental nymph]

So ,I got a synth paladin hauberk with 15% chance to def with 200% armour

Interesting

[split palm]

3 to 1 is profitable

[frigid wedge]

vendor em

[split palm]

I never did it except once

[sage falcon]

yeah but is that even good d/h

[split palm]

it's decent-ish

spend 15 min for like 20-30 extra div

need 180 scarabs

[unique silo]

Yea Def but I'd loose some quality of life for sure

[split palm]

for full inv

scrollwheel go brrrr

[frigid wedge]

makes more than u actually drop in the map

[split palm]

not true

[pliant jungle]

wait i pressed escape to get to character selection why is it showing me this ? i didnt die in hardcore ?

[split palm]

but it is a very nice side hustle

[shrewd fiber]

yeah ty, was looking for new build ideas tho

[pliant jungle]

am i allowed to die in zizaran leageu ?

[frigid wedge]

i just have a second mouse profile that auto clicks on left click

[mystic socket]

what is a very good defensive chest if im life based

[frigid wedge]

watcha tryna do

[split palm]

I hold caps lock

[mystic socket]

was looking at stasis prison

[split palm]

and scroll

[frigid wedge]

a rare

[mystic socket]

was thinking of cloak

[split palm]

caps lock is the most useless key

[bleak quiver]

rare, foulborn lightning coil, doppleganger, cloak of flames

[shrewd fiber]

looking for a mapping build but extra zoomy, some off meta / funny stuff with the accel belt probably

[mystic socket]

doppelganger good for pohys and chaos

[frigid wedge]

me typing an essay for my English exam couple years ago at 80wpm using caps lock instead of shift

[mystic socket]

was hoping to raise my ele max hits too

[dim turtle]

I got woke trade at caps

[frigid wedge]

any sparker

[dim turtle]

So if someone whispers me i scream at them sometimes

[bleak quiver]

those are the ones that kill you

[split palm]

typing grrrr

[mystic socket]

ya but

im looking for giga tank

[split palm]

I type in such a weird way

[mystic socket]

and getting 90 res will be hard

so iron dome might not be shit

[shrewd fiber]

doesnt spark require a suuuuper high budget though? i have like a mirror but not multi mirror budget

[split palm]

only use like four or five fingers total on both hands

yet decently fast

[frigid wedge]

my left hand knows how to type and my right hand uses 2 finger

[mystic socket]

brass dome* lol

[frigid wedge]

ehh

[mystic socket]

basically crit immune and 5 max res is nice

[frigid wedge]

ur solving cast speed and proj speed

by belt and a gull

[mystic socket]

i get loads of pdr from precursor

[split palm]

2+2, and small finger for ctrl/shift and thumb for spacebar, I suppose

wait

[spring kestrel]

anyone know if u have 100% chance to ignite/chill/shock but u have no lightning/cold/fire dmg do u still apply the ailments? If not, do I just need at least 1 dmg of that element or is there a minimum calculated that is required?

[split palm]

I use my right thumd for shift sometimes???

[frigid wedge]

i use my whole left hand

[split palm]

lol

never

noticed till now

[frigid wedge]

no

[plush gulch]

if it's "HC" you are not allowed to die

[frigid wedge]

need base dmg unless smth that says ur x dmg can y

[bleak quiver]

if you want giga tank, foulborn coil + divine flesh OR rare/cloak + purity of fire sublime should be the best

[frigid wedge]

on what

[mystic socket]

pof sublime too high budget and will ruin plans for damage

[spring kestrel]

do you know if a minimum base dmg is required? or can i just have 1 and it will apply ?

[mystic socket]

on something so far from meta its pretty funny

[frigid wedge]

so use lightning

and font

[shrewd fiber]

these warden builds lose 90% of their damage with tinctures turned off 😭 not sure what i expected

[mystic socket]

https://pobb.in/bnBS0r4Mm7Cd

[plush gulch]

what damage will you be happy with

[frigid wedge]

u gotta get over ailment threshhold

[mystic socket]

using malachais loop

like 50 mil

[shrewd fiber]

i hate clicking tinctures

[frigid wedge]

can build warden to have 100% uptime, no reason to turn off the tinctures in pob

[shrewd fiber]

thats interesting, but i need to keep clicking them very often though right

[frigid wedge]

160m of 180m on my warden in settlers came back when tinctures turned on

[shrewd fiber]

yeah those are the kinda numbers im looking at rn lol

[frigid wedge]

leech helps keep em relatively comfy, occasionally glance at bottom left

[bleak quiver]

shit is nasty af

[mystic socket]

just looks like a different doppelganger

[bleak quiver]

yeah, kinda

[mystic socket]

reskinned with less phys and chaos taken

but minus the 10% regen line

[split palm]

some foulborn stuff costs stupidly much

[plush gulch]

10% regen is big

[bleak quiver]

no life line allows for the mastery

[mystic socket]

which is more broken than it looks imo

[shrewd fiber]

really, was it not annoying to play during your settlers build

[frigid wedge]

THERES AN UNASCENDED RANGER ON NINJA WITH MORE MS THAN HALF THE HEISTERS LAST LEAGUE I CANT

[mystic socket]

and that 10% regen stacks im pretty sure

[plush gulch]

when you add consec ground it's 15% you easily get a few % here and there, you get some life regeneration rate

[frigid wedge]

one if my favourite builds

[plush gulch]

I wouldn't be surprised if you can get 25% life per second

[frigid wedge]

lemme grab u the video

[plush gulch]

or something

with minimal investment

[mystic socket]

i already have like

75% life recoup

and ill most likely run leech

since im going pb im gonna go for super high life but its lacking on tree rn

[plush gulch]

would be op on a inquisitor corrupted soul don't you think

probably nice for dots skill that can't leech

[frigid wedge]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6unA6M3L8

[mystic socket]

im not sure if going CI would help me a lot

[shrewd fiber]

cuz a lot of these accel belt builds seem to be warden, when not spark or cyclone

[mystic socket]

theres a lot more es nodes there, i wouldnt have to path down to life nodes

i could go es leech

BUT no pb

which sucks

because i wont have above 10k es

[grizzled lily]

man why is mask of the tribunal so cheap

its so cool

[plush gulch]

no need ci look 27% chaos res each pts, so useful to cap chaos res

very minimal cost on the tree

[frigid wedge]

downside of screams belt is relatively small when a runegraft rewards u with tincture effect for keeping ur flask slots empty next to ur tinctures

and half ur flask slots are main dps anyways

[mystic socket]

i have no space for that

[plush gulch]

what's your build

[mystic socket]

this

i havent fully set up that timeless but thatll give either 10-15 pdr

[plush gulch]

nice interesting

[shrewd fiber]

had no idea this runegraft existed, you mean this right

[frigid wedge]

yoooo sick precursor
i want one that rolls "Has Alt Variant: True"

[frigid wedge]

yes

[plush gulch]

what's your damageskill

[mystic socket]

what

[mystic socket]

cold snap

[twin arch]

can i use POE ninja to find someones discord

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/miragessf/character/seikikoo-3400/Seiki_Banners_Again?timemachine=hour-12&i=2&search=class%3DChampion%26skills%3DDefiance%2BBanner%252CDread%2BBanner%26timemachine%3Dday-2%26allgems%3DDread%2BBanner%252CDefiance%2BBanner%26name%3Dbanner%26heatmap%3Dtrue

[mystic socket]

i have 100% chance to get a charge on crit

and i always crit

[twin arch]

i need to ask questions about this build

ive asked here but nobody really knows

so i thought id ask the creator

[frigid wedge]

why would u want to

[shrewd fiber]

infinite stalking simulator

[twin arch]

i just said that right above your message

wtf sans

i need to ask them how to level this in gauntlet

[dim turtle]

@ seiki

[mystic socket]

just message them on discord

[frigid wedge]

the same way

[shrewd fiber]

what skill is this, i been looking at tornado shot if i go bow

[twin arch]

@vernal tusk hey how can i make this build but in gauntlet

no idea how to get certain pieces of gear

considering doing so has way more risk

[lapis jackal]

https://youtu.be/yYAu-U3auGE

[twin arch]

than usual

[shrewd fiber]

also is this the max tincture duration?

[grave kelp]

anyone want jewells

[mystic socket]

i hate those boxes

such a waste

[dim turtle]

1 alc -charge jewels pog!!!

[frigid wedge]

u just get linger and first 6 are free with slower burn stuff

[split palm]

you realize

some of them may be worth a hundred div

[frigid wedge]

im taking 3 ascendancy notables into tinctures there

[mystic socket]

i always check

but they are never good

always the shitass corruption jewels

[frigid wedge]

scourge of menace, build csn also be tshot tho

[split palm]

it's diabolical how expensive CBI is on unnat

[rancid sluice]

you get the same 5 or 6 like 99 percent of the time

[frigid wedge]

tshot is just a ring and support gem swap

[mystic socket]

i havent even dropped an unnatural

[elfin spire]

damn, all 6

[mystic socket]

after trillions of those shitass boxes

[twin arch]

WAKE UP

[dim turtle]

Stalk and hunt them down.

[twin arch]

im trying its harder than youd think

[frigid wedge]

u do know u can like

[twin arch]

not in the creepy way though

[frigid wedge]

dm on forums

[twin arch]

yea they dont have forum history though

[split palm]

sans

[twin arch]

so they dont use it

[split palm]

sorry

but

[dim turtle]

U will be knocking on their irl door in 2h

[split palm]

who actually checks forum dms?

[dim turtle]

I know it

[twin arch]

^

[mystic socket]

is having 176% recoup

good

with pb

[dim turtle]

Just send like 290000 messages

Surely itll be sus to them ans they click

If they see big number

[frigid wedge]

who actually responds when some random person finds their discord account with 0 mutual friends or servers

[steep cloak]

god i hate hardcore players what is this gauntlet man

[split palm]

I actually do to troll a bit

and waste time

[frigid wedge]

as was the original intention

[split palm]

so someone may not get scammed

[frigid wedge]

lul

[split palm]

plus it is always funny

[steep cloak]

why is there 7 vaal archers who permastun me with a 30% chill and 4 second burn in act 1 coast

like zizaran cannot be a real human being

[split palm]

seeing the "i can draw you a pfp" scammers

[twin arch]

fun fact

theres a pack of 15 of them

later on

in act 1

have fun

[split palm]

my brother in christ, I can draw myself, without using ai

[steep cloak]

yeah i'm not doing that

[frigid wedge]

PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, PLEASE, I'M A STARVING ARTIST YOU NEED TO BUY MY ART

[steep cloak]

this is far past cbt

[twin arch]

just play bannerman

oH WAIT

YOU CANT

CAUSE THERES NO GUIDES ON IT

ANYYYYYWHERE

[frigid wedge]

YOU CLICKA DA BANNAR

[twin arch]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-higuruma-jjk-season-3-gif-4667305439104820644

[dim turtle]

Figure it out then

And make one

[twin arch]

CANT GET THE BANNER TIL YOURE OUT ACT 1

[dim turtle]

ty

[frigid wedge]

anyone have the uh

[steep cloak]

you couldn't pay me 400 thousand dollars to try to actually finish campaign in this gauntlet this is dogshit

[plush gulch]

im starting to get annoyed having that picture everywhere

[frigid wedge]

anyone got blazar on discord

[shrewd fiber]

do you know if tshot gets any special bonus / interaction from the proj speed of accel belt

[frigid wedge]

send khailby over there

[twin arch]

who is blazar

[limpid prairie]

dupe :)

[split palm]

blazar

[shrewd fiber]

as a jjk larper i love this picture

[frigid wedge]

bow mastery, proj speed applies to dmg w bows, also tshot turns into tshit without proj speed

[frigid wedge]

nice

[twin arch]

idc about jjk its a real ass image though

[shrewd fiber]

you dont have to care just larp bro

[twin arch]

im too lazy to larp tho

[cosmic raptor]

Guys

[frigid wedge]

oh ok not me

[twin arch]

and women

[cosmic raptor]

Guys as in people

[split palm]

in people ????

[cosmic raptor]

As in folks

[split palm]

skinwalkers???

[finite quail]

Interesting pfp

[lilac gate]

does anyone here has Xiaomi Redmi G34WQ 2026 ver?

[finite quail]

[split palm]

wrong chat bud

[frigid wedge]

guys gals and nonbinary pals

:D

[cosmic raptor]

Skinwalker???

[grizzled lily]

qq

[mystic socket]

does recoup end when ur on full life

or when duration is over

[steep cloak]

it's birds

[cosmic raptor]

No, I have a dacia duster

[finite quail]

Now that's a birb alright

Could I see the full

[cosmic raptor]

U gotta pay

[frigid wedge]

bing chilling

[pulsar ice]

hey, 0 shards once again, fuck me I guess. 7 shipments 1 shard pogger

[tacit crow]

holy shit

this is gross

[cosmic raptor]

Your fault for doing kingsmarch

[frigid wedge]

think game is already fucking you, we don't need 2

[grizzled lily]

now hold on

[true flower]

delete ruin

[frigid wedge]

mid

[split palm]

that's mid

[grizzled lily]

its good

syndicate drop

[split palm]

no

[cosmic raptor]

Nice ehp....

[split palm]

it's not T1, on a bad base

[tacit crow]

sorry where are you on the leaderboard?

:3

[cosmic raptor]

You can check me out at the harvest bench

:3

[grizzled lily]

it that fled gave me this

[split palm]

the korean mafia gonna get you

[split palm]

I will refrain making any comments in regards to the divination drop to not obtain the 1_Infraction role

[tacit crow]

found you bro

looking good

[cosmic raptor]

At least i can tank a white mob

[drifting wren]

Hey guys I just started playing. I just hit act 3 and the equipment is starting to get a little more complicated. Are there any resources that you guys would recommend to gain a better general understanding?

[pulsar spoke]

no

just rawdog it

[grizzled lily]

#1┃new-player-in-campaign-help

ask there

dont listen to these people

[restive plume]

what timeless jewel for supreme ostentation

[split palm]

fuck around and find out, if nothing helps, #1┃new-player-in-campaign-help

[grizzled lily]

♻️

[twin arch]

so what quest do you have to do to unlock sunder

[grizzled lily]

dont u only need level 12

[jovial topaz]

poe1 still worth playing?

i havent played this league

[grizzled lily]

and its then on nesa

[split palm]

moreso than poo2

[twin arch]

i dont think its a level thing

[twin arch]

more than poe2

as has been the case since poe2 launch

:giggle:

[twin arch]

is it literally just hit the level and you get it

[mystic socket]

is high cdr gonna enable any defenses?

[frigid wedge]

daily reminder that salty has a whole ONE infraction

[mystic socket]

i have 65% cdr

[signal hawk]

Sunder is Siren's Cadence

[split palm]

crazy, right

[finite quail]

caspiro

[split palm]

to be fair me having 0 is a wonder too

[twin arch]

Hooooly

[finite quail]

the coins one

[finite quail]

poggers

[split palm]

given my tendency to be VERY sarcastic

[twin arch]

sirens cadence isnt kill merveil is it

[finite quail]

no

its reach the cave

[signal hawk]

its getting to the cavern

[split palm]

not bad for 10 maps doing exactly fuckall with 0 brain activity

[frigid wedge]

me making daily sex jokes

[finite quail]

after ghost beach

[restive plume]

my chud ass got cadiro or whatever

[frigid wedge]

how many divs is that

[finite quail]

little chudling

[grizzled lily]

like 40

[split palm]

you have green name - I don't

[grizzled lily]

10 for the juice

barya

[pulsar spoke]

bad actually

[grizzled lily]

10k is 1 div in other juices

[frigid wedge]

ur aboutta sell that shit

[pulsar spoke]

just do this

less effort

more profit

[twin arch]

god damn it

no 2hander axe

[finite quail]

IRON RING LOOTER

[shrewd fiber]

Peak poe1

[twin arch]

wdym iron ring looter

ive got two iron rings

[signal hawk]

is exsanguinate mines a good "I'm starting the league very late"?

[twin arch]

rn

[shrewd fiber]

That and wocot are really good

[split palm]

rich coming from someone copying a fubgooner build 1:1

[daring bluff]

breach vs rituals for getting influenced itens?

[finite quail]

now you have 3 dude

[grizzled lily]

holy no osin laugh at this poor fuck

[grave kelp]

is today detonate dead day why does every strongbox have detonate corpse on it

[finite quail]

you can make a cold res ring now

[pulsar spoke]

kappa

[twin arch]

how did this guy do this in SSF

what the fuck

mageblood

ashes of the stars

foulborn kiss

[signal hawk]

I see

[twin arch]

and a god corrupt echoes of creation

[grave kelp]

Be lucky

[finite quail]

he got lucky

[twin arch]

inspired learning too

[split palm]

ssf players are a different breed

[twin arch]

actual terrorist

[split palm]

usually annoying

[frigid wedge]

esm had a 100% adorned in ssf last league

[grizzled lily]

ayo

[twin arch]

like, to the enemies

of the map

this is an insane hour 12 though tbh

[modest depot]

these are not hard items to get

[frigid wedge]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepersssf/character/marc_aureli-3722/OldManOfClustering

[modest depot]

outside of mageblood ofc

[twin arch]

you could get mageblood in ssf week 1?

[frigid wedge]

this is an ssf char

[mystic socket]

how can i have basically full effect and benefit of enfeeble while mapping

[modest depot]

yeah but like its a 30% uber rate and a semi common axe that u can target farm

[twin arch]

inspired learning

[karmic ivy]

anyone here doing syndicate farm, I just need the bloodline ascendancy

[modest depot]

not hard to get either

[grizzled lily]

just do breach bro

[thick goblet]

there are plenty of ssf players who consistently get mb/hh by week 1, some people are just good at the game

[twin arch]

if ts isnt hard to get why is it expensive on trade

[split palm]

breach is actually very mid lmao

[grizzled lily]

lol?

[modest depot]

i mean that part is rng for sure

[twin arch]

im still trying to figure out how im gonna get out of act 1

once i do that MAYBE i can start to do this build

but like

[split palm]

there are strats WAY better than breach

[split palm]

with basically zero invest

[twin arch]

this is rough

this is rough rough

[split palm]

and are super chill to run with exactly zero shit to worry about

[grizzled lily]

breach tree is prob the best way to get yourself good unqieus

[split palm]

tree, sure, is decent, but you can also just buy them

[dusky iron]

why are you even talking abt mb when u are stuck in act1
seems like some stupid ragebait

[split palm]

by farming a better league mechanic

[twin arch]

brother im already 40/40 for challenges done

im doing gauntlet

[split palm]

who are you actually

[twin arch]

believe it or not it actually requires an iota of brain power

which is why i'm here and you aren't

im trying to plan out my path proactively, and along the way i noticed "wow ssf players are rly good, this one has a mageblood early"

sit rat

[grizzled lily]

i died 5 times as templar vs hilock on gauntlet,

traumatic experience

[dusky iron]

kinda cringe to assume im bad at the game lol I cleared act10 last gauntlet and also got 40 40 chal XD

[dim turtle]

I think i rather alch and go farm 10 mirrors than play the gauntlet from what ive seen ngl

[twin arch]

yea

last gauntlet

what about this gauntlet

[plush gulch]

wow my friend just taught me this

[twin arch]

r u level 90 yet

[plush gulch]

insane spot

[tranquil umbra]

I don't have the patience to do gauntlet icl

[twin arch]

if ur not level 90 get out of my vision

[dusky iron]

just playing normal ssf? you seem a bit butthurt, chill

[thick goblet]

impossible escape for 1 notable?

[twin arch]

@split palm :giggle:

[plush gulch]

well i put it there for now I'm gonna save up money buy a corrupted blood jewel and then remove the ele res wheel and take it with jewel

[split palm]

given your message history, I have enough reasons to doubt you actually did 40/40

[plush gulch]

im gonna justify it more later

[dusky iron]

hahahaha freak goes into reading chat history holy

weird ppl in here

[plush gulch]

@thick goblet I will look for a better timeless jewel, i just was highlighting the spot with impossible escape and thread of hope

that is very good

[pulsar spoke]

dont look at this grown ass mans profile btw

[plush gulch]

im learning everyday

[subtle imp]

Anyone here playing the gloom shrine autobomber build?

[dark sequoia]

why do I keep hearing about templar and hillock

is holy strike just tough to kill gauntlet hillock with

[thick goblet]

yeah it's a sick thread

[dusky iron]

pretty slow animation with zero range yup

[plush gulch]

and in a way the one slightly under it you would get those right ? mana reservation and spellblock

[shrewd fiber]

Is warden still the best ascendecy for tornado shot?

[pulsar spoke]

warden if ur a pussy deadeye if ur not

[tacit crow]

gn guys

[split palm]

gn kafka

[tacit crow]

today we climber the ladder

tomorrow we fly past

[split palm]

the korean mafia will get you...

[tacit crow]

john korea name better watch ouy

[plush gulch]

beast jail?

[tacit crow]

he doesnt know

we are done bro

[grizzled lily]

its slow and barely deals any damage

[shrewd fiber]

can you elaborate?

[plush gulch]

omg nice

[tacit crow]

dagger is finished and mirrored

[plush gulch]

you escaped

[shrewd fiber]

looking to do mapping

[pulsar spoke]

just go deadeye

[tacit crow]

check poeninja sort by dps

[plush gulch]

warden is mostly here to stay alive with freezes I guess ?

peoople like to die

it is what it is

[pulsar spoke]

u dont die if ur good enough

YO

I JUST DIED

[shrewd fiber]

im not good enough chat

[split palm]

deadeye is squishy as shit and does not function without hh

[plush gulch]

😂

[pulsar spoke]

BECAUSE OF PREDICTIVE

AND FROSTBLINK

i love being rollbacked everytime i press frostblink

[grizzled lily]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1330136553632043071/1490682603479498938/fingerrrr.gif

[plush gulch]

well not everyone is there to play a gameplay on methamphetamine where 1s mistake you are gone

so warden is cool

but tincture

🤮

[shrewd fiber]

if i dont plan on going tincture [accelbelt] should i not be going warden

[pulsar spoke]

then gotta play poe2

[shrewd fiber]

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[plush gulch]

I love poe 2

[dark sequoia]

i tried and I'm finding you run out of mana pots when hillock is about 1/8 life left

[plush gulch]

I hate their endgame that is so fast

[pulsar spoke]

translation : im old

[shrewd fiber]

based

[plush gulch]

it's like your whole adventure was to make a chracter kills mob in a certain pace

you get to endgame

different game

scrap up your build

[split palm]

becomes rich once
becomes obnoxious

insane pipeline, almost always the case

[plush gulch]

try to do some poe 1 shit no more time for kiting or combo

[grizzled lily]

idk personally i just hit my balls on his face to kill him, otherwise he would just make sure to kill you

[plush gulch]

i remember my first breach as a warrior I was like uhhh my build wasn't made for this

me trying to use sunder

[violet goblet]

Uh, servers are dying?

[plush gulch]

I died btw

[shrewd fiber]

they mentioned theyre toying with the idea of an effectiveness "slider" for the endgame update last interview. you can choose to fight hordes of enemies, or fewer enemies with more hp, for the same loot

[split palm]

yeah, sry doing simalacrum

[pulsar spoke]

yes

[plush gulch]

thats a sick idea

maybe it will land maybe not

[shrewd fiber]

brilliant solution if it gets implemented

[plush gulch]

i don't mind either way

[split palm]

I hope not

[plush gulch]

for the same loot

I have no idea how you do this

[violet goblet]

Cool. I hope Jonathan will get kicked out.

[split palm]

doesn'T matter

[shrewd fiber]

why not? this makes poe2 players and poe1 players happy

[violet goblet]

He does basically nothing.

[split palm]

there is simply no need

[plush gulch]

👀

[split palm]

it worked as is

[pulsar spoke]

yes there is

[split palm]

why fuck everything up

[plush gulch]

it didn't work

as is

[pulsar spoke]

are u saying poe2 is working

LOL

[plush gulch]

game is ridiculous in endgame

[split palm]

why the fuck are we talking about poo2 in #1┃general

[pulsar spoke]

poe2 is just a machine where they put new features and if they work enough they add it to poe1

[plush gulch]

idk either let's move on

[surreal mulch]

so you know how there's Uber Uber elder where it's elder in shapers realm? what if there was infinite uber shaper where you keep going inside a recusive elder realm that gets increasingly harder?

[split palm]

new event dropped

[wheat linden]

Hi question!

How do you void out Contracts and Valdos Maps on the trade website, I’m looking to buy maps but I don’t want to see these maps! Thanks

[split palm]

endless elder

[surreal mulch]

funny you should say that because like a year ago people said the exact opposite

[split palm]

max tier: 16

I believe

[surreal mulch]

where poe1 is dead and we are guinea pigs

[dim turtle]

Set map tier to 16 and just type Map in search bar

+not
Citadel
Is what i do

[wheat linden]

Okay thanks a lot!

It works with all those things!

How do I void out unique maps

That’s the last thing haha

[bleak quiver]

rarity: non-unique

[plush gulch]

they are all hugging

[split palm]

influenced by

also in not

[wheat linden]

Oh got it nvm

[plush gulch]

little essence family

[dim turtle]

Those dont really pop up but yeah

At least for what i search

[shrewd fiber]

how do you set a DPS minimum on poeninja?

[wheat linden]

Cool cool got it thanks guys!

[split palm]

write it in the search bar thingey below the column descriptor

[short prairie]

lmfao

[shrewd fiber]

no text box?

[split palm]

huh

idk in that case

[shrewd fiber]

😭

[dim turtle]

gulp

[split palm]

very pog simulacram

insane loot

glad I won't have to go back anymore this league

ianyways, I go sleep

gn chat

[shrewd fiber]

gn

is ice spear primarily a bossing ability?

[short prairie]

it's a primary merveil ability

[rancid sluice]

ive only ever really seen it in coc builds

[daring bluff]

yo senses

is there any tldr for farming elder/influenced items?

do i just run fast city square maps and get elder/influenced maps and run them and thats it?

[finite quail]

elder scarab

[daring bluff]

with the elder scarab, do i do rituals or breach?

[finite quail]

any content

that has enemies that drop loot

[limpid prairie]

beyond ritual! :D

[shrewd canopy]

when you max roll ES on a ring xD i dont think ive ever done that

[dim turtle]

I had a really decent ring early into league

Open mod

Exalt slam

+1es

[grizzled lily]

lil bit of

[shrewd canopy]

ooooft

yeh that feels bad

[surreal mulch]

does the "portal out of brine king vortex" trick still work?

[grizzled lily]

1st one alr paid for the whole set and its not the usual items

breach astrolabe

[unique silo]

first time wave 11! lesss gooooo xd

[grizzled lily]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-lets-go-lets-goo-yeah-gif-5803630122527529880

[limpid prairie]

there goes my currency

[elfin spire]

i fractured 1 ES once instead of T1 affix

[shrewd canopy]

hahaha

now thats a bad one

[limpid prairie]

mmh

[surreal mulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/552615024393322506/1477347987687739614/67-3x.gif?ex=69d92b08&is=69d7d988&hm=74abd36fbd0d2ac4c374b9a6b8c96fee77d16678f1ef79c3d09d5620a52703f3&

[limpid prairie]

fuck

now i like my belt less

[shrewd fiber]

still figuring out a funny af build with my belt

also unhappy with belt

[dry snow]

vaal it

[shrewd fiber]

true!

[true flower]

watch sparks run

[violet goblet]

Dead servers.

Fuck this game.

[finite quail]

no

go fuck the ddosers

[violet goblet]

If I was able to find them.

[shrewd fiber]

your pfp is the ringed city right, wheres that art from

[daring bluff]

so just add the scarab and do rituals with beyond tree?

[limpid prairie]

i will actually try expedition beyond that sounds like it will drop more items

[short prairie]

is this usable for bv

im a settler

[wheat linden]

Hi guys, Question!

Are there limits to how many “Scried Maps” to one map?

Like can I Scry Difiked Cathedrals and Burial Chambers to Dunes?

Or is it 1 scry per map?

[fading raft]

This is nothing btw, but I’m doing the challenge league rn on ps and Varashta just straight up lied to me. She said,”Elegantly carved bows shall be yours.” and the chest at the end had only rare wands :(

[lean urchin]

cant trust anyone in wraeclast smh

[limpid prairie]

press alt?

[fading raft]

Nada, still nothing. Only two rare wands

Can’t even wish for bows and get it hahaha

[limpid prairie]

monkey paw djinn

[fading raft]

Sums up my luck ngl

[trail cobalt]

does volatile vaal orb count as tainted currency

[vocal tinsel]

when farming astrolabes, are the rewards in vault just complete rng? or is it influenced based on the maps your ran?(like quality tier etc)

[surreal mulch]

do you really believe varashta's lies?

[limpid prairie]

i believe so? I have been farming high quant the pale demons and its working decently

maybe someone in youtube has all the answers

[surreal mulch]

zarokh is kinda like fucking caliborn if you think about it

[trail cobalt]

does item rarity affect div cards

[lean urchin]

no

quant does

[trail cobalt]

ok

[halcyon prawn]

rarity is only for item drops

[surreal mulch]

I can buy a rat for 20 points

or a frog

or a stash tab

[lean urchin]

frog

[halcyon prawn]

t16 6mod with divination chisels vs. t16 8 mod corrupt no chisel, which one drops more div cards on average

[native abyss]

frog

[halcyon prawn]

cuz u get more quant with 8 mod, but no div chisel giving % more div card drops

[surreal mulch]

tbf the rats are pretty basic

but like

it's a rat

[full kraken]

1 per

[halcyon prawn]

i mean more div card chisel is probably the play, right? cuz u can get quant with altars

[surreal mulch]

the former

then again escalating modifiers exists so I'm not sure?

[halcyon prawn]

escalating modifiers?

[full kraken]

You can vaal after chiselling right? And 1/4 of the time get an 8 mod

[surreal mulch]

that one atlas notable in the middle of the tree

[halcyon prawn]

yea but i mean for buying maps

[full kraken]

And 1/4 of the time a handy implicit

[surreal mulch]

gives more modifier amplifier for modifier

[full kraken]

Id say roll them yourself, chisel and vaal, is better ROI

[surreal mulch]

sometimes it bricks them into a map you can't run well

or vaal temple

chisels expensive

[full kraken]

Get a better build

If you wanna juice, you eventually wanna play a build that can handle every mod

[surreal mulch]

at various efficiency

[full kraken]

Rule of thumb is using defiance of destiny and bloodnotch combo is the best way to counter most stuff

[rancid sluice]

i farm my own with the corrupted 8 mod scarab, yeah you get a couple bricks here and there but i prolly average 8-10 maps a run

[full kraken]

It basically sidesteps every one of the recovery neutering map mods

[halcyon prawn]

~55c per chisel, are u sure? gotta regex all the ones that do hit as well. to make a stock of maps before running them all. doesnt sound too ideal

[surreal mulch]

oh nvm I can't actually buy a stash tab lol

[full kraken]

If you play a build that doesnt have an achilles heel map mod whats the risk

[halcyon prawn]

yea, i guess so

[surreal mulch]

most builds don't like -res

[halcyon prawn]

its more prep but i guess it is more ROI

[surreal mulch]

you have to be an exception to not be affected by it

[full kraken]

Id say 100% taken as fire/chaos, defiance of destiny, bloodnotch combo, is your strongest bet to sidestep all map mod issues

[surreal mulch]

overcapped 100 res chieftain or some shit

[full kraken]

Chief prolly solid yeah

With like +15 overcapped max res I wanna say means -max res wont impact you

And then as much phys taken as ele

And with bv combo... you can easily be hella tanky

Cuz dmg is solved

[tranquil sedge]

wdym wont impact you

[full kraken]

Doesnt overcapped +max res counter -max res

[tranquil sedge]

yea but if ur plan to be tanky was centered around having more max res

and then you lose it to the mod

that doesn't mean it didn't impact you

[full kraken]

Sure...

[ocean folio]

i think is he talking about overcapping 90% max res

[full kraken]

Point being that you stay at 90% even with -max mod

[tranquil sedge]

oh
wat, you don't

[dry tree]

That sounds like wasted investment when you can just not roll that mod if you're investing into max res

[full kraken]

Pretty sure it works

[tranquil sedge]

rly?

[ocean folio]

i also thought it works that way

[full kraken]

Same reason overcapping resists counters -resists

[tranquil sedge]

i thought thats because the game doesn't actually cap your resists

uncapped resistances can go as high as they want

it just limits how much of them apply

[full kraken]

Same goes for the +max res stat

[tranquil sedge]

i see

this never occured to me as a defensive layer but thats interesting

[full kraken]

Yeah, thus you can counter that mod too and its honestly easy for chief

Just get +max fire res jewels

Between purity of fire, jewels, a bit of tree, youll prolly be able to hit like 15 overcapped

Though you prolly wanna overcap by 20

Since map mod effect

[tranquil sedge]

chieftain coz valakos?

[full kraken]

The other option to counter it is loreweave on a different build

But I would prolly go chief and then stack the shit out of fire res

Cuz you /also/ gotta compensate for eldritch altars too

And chief is super good at that

[surreal mulch]

I can't decide between black rat and sin sword

the hypnotoad is cool but it'd get annoying to look at after a while

[surreal mulch]

what is loreweave even for btw?

it feels like an outdated item

though I saw fukin steve using it

[full kraken]

Loreweave hard counters anything that modifies max res

[surreal mulch]

oh wow

so what like exposure immunity?

[full kraken]

Thats res not max res

[surreal mulch]

well yeah but yk

wait what other effects reduce max res

[full kraken]

Map mod is the main one

Which does show up in delve

[tranquil sedge]

if you rely on aura effect to scale max res, reduced aura effect can do it too

[surreal mulch]

oh cool

[surreal mulch]

well yk obviously you're not if you're loreweave

[tranquil sedge]

right

[full kraken]

Thats a good point, aura effect can hit like -100% too so you want a build with zero auras

[tranquil sedge]

this is fun to find out

im planning to try and see how far i can go

and i have just 90% max res + purity of fire

gonna be great when i dont read mods 😄

[full kraken]

Petrified blood + dissolution combo could be a good all rounder option

I dont think dissolution builds have specific Achilles heel map mods do they?

[tranquil sedge]

-# chatgpt do dissolution builds in poe have weaknesses

[full kraken]

You really want to solve chaos ground tho

[normal token]

Does anyone remember what that super old event in PoE1 was where you'd open a chest of items and try to descend down floors fighting bosses?

[lean urchin]

a race, endless iirc

[normal token]

Just using what you'd get in the process to get further

[full kraken]

You're gonna want elevated influence boots to solve caustic ground or whatever it is

[normal token]

It had a specific name I thought. But I can't find any info about it

[full kraken]

Endless delve?

[trail cobalt]

i said g00n and got timed out lmao why is that restricted

[normal token]

Nah nothing to do with delve

It was before delve was in the game I think

[lean urchin]

it was endless ledge i remember

[blissful zodiac]

@trail cobalt say the funny thing about d4

[normal token]

Descent Champions I think

[blissful zodiac]

(dont)

[surreal mulch]

dissolution craves all dot immunity so I guess if the map mod has some kind of exotic dot

like a nightmare map mod

yeah like the shaper puddles would fuck you up

[normal token]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Descent

I'm surprised they never did anything like this again

[lean urchin]

takes dev time

[charred sigil]

Is there one map layout that has the map boss almost always inside the Mirage area ... aside of Ashen Woods?

[charred sigil]

Missing the endless Ledge races?

[elfin spire]

W

[full kraken]

You can just dodge those no?

[true flower]

its Filianore from the Ringed City, i got the image from google iirc i probably just searched the name

[blissful zodiac]

sounds ancient

must've been from 2012 2013

[normal token]

I can't remember much of endless ledge. I think I did it once. Descent was a cool idea though. I'm not sure how they'd reimagine it. I was just thinking about it thinking about Diablo 1

[blissful zodiac]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EO0W2R5gZ0

who made this

[normal token]

Where you're just descending with scary bosses on some levels. The living off the land rogue like aspect of descent only feels like it works in a race format though

Or like limited event

[blissful zodiac]

so poe 1 was really gonna be a d2 inspired game huh

[surreal mulch]

you can but yk

also. are there any sources that give you resistance or immunity to generic ground dots?

like sirus puddles

[blissful zodiac]

https://youtu.be/XCc1coHafKk?si=O3fXaoyN3rFuCnHH

[surreal mulch]

like idk lethe shade or something

[blissful zodiac]

juses game looks sooooo

bland and boring back then ngl

[unique silo]

just missing goddam explosions https://maxroll.gg/poe/pob/7fbijy0u

[vapid junco]

well its not so boring when youre in 2013

[lean urchin]

life was different back then

[vapid junco]

isnt annihilation support works really well with minion?

[normal token]

Ruthless was an attempt to bring it back. Same with PoE2. People's dopamine receptors are fried now though

[twin arch]

Just ate a 70$ steak

Best dinner ive ever had

worth the money? Maybe not

[vapid junco]

im quite dissapointed PoE 2 become what it is now

[twin arch]

but absolutely still best food ive ever eaten

[unique silo]

Wait wait wait. You might have cooked bro 🔥🔥🙏🏾😂

I'll give it a try as soon as possible

[vapid junco]

i didnt, people talked about it couple of times, iirc minions are one of if not the only way that support gem can chain the explosion

[surreal mulch]

minion builds with splash don't really need explosions

[twin arch]

You remember correctly

[unique silo]

I didn't know. The options the exiles gave me were really expensive

[twin arch]

Annihilation support is really good with herald of fire too

[bleak quiver]

wait, that works?

[vapid junco]

but herald of fire doesnt proc on your minion kills?

[bleak quiver]

dsnt it need to be a skill that hits?

[twin arch]

Sorry

Herald of ash

im stupid

[bleak quiver]

ye, it needs to be a skill that hits, it shouldnt worrkk with heald of ash

[surreal mulch]

https://youtu.be/livQZ53bO4I https://youtu.be/NDBjuOd72aE

[twin arch]

No it does

Or, if it doesnt

Theres builds that use it with herald of ash additionally

[bleak quiver]

if it does, its a unreported bug

[twin arch]

And its supposedly a very strong combo

[unique silo]

I don't know the clear looks mid atleast for me

[twin arch]

Bug or not, there is an interaction between something supported with annihilation and Herald of Ash

[surreal mulch]

give them movespeed

[twin arch]

Regardless of if herald of ash is the one triggering it

herald of ash is involved in the combo

in a capacity

No more no less

[elfin spire]

will this game ever start stacking things?

[surreal mulch]

you are looking at them

they stack

especially those chrome orbs

the game used to drop scrolls one by one

[twin arch]

Whetstone drop in gauntlet

[unique silo]

Will increase more 👊🏾

[bleak quiver]

you can also just use a better filter cuz thats 1/300 of a chaos each

[surreal mulch]

but then they like made them rarer with high quant but drop multiple amounts

[twin arch]

Im still upset i cant find comprehensive enough resources on ssf bannerman

theres plenty for trade

[surreal mulch]

excuse me gcp is still 3c each

[twin arch]

And some ok ones for ssf but not in the capacity im looking for

[surreal mulch]

how are you supposed to banner while dodging ruin anyways

[twin arch]

Very easily

[narrow yoke]

I left boss with 2 ruin, teleported back and died from 7. Is that just bad luck or can you not tp mid fight

[surreal mulch]

at the point where you're putting passive points into banner aoe you could have put them into more damage like a monkey

[twin arch]

I cant see ruin being that oppressive to banner outside ziggurat

[surreal mulch]

you have to reset instance

[twin arch]

^

[narrow yoke]

Fuck me

[surreal mulch]

should have asked first before doing that

[twin arch]

^^

[narrow yoke]

Guess what, I died.

[finite quail]

tping away does not reset ruin

[blissful zodiac]

indeed

I a was child

[twin arch]

The alternative is lobotomizing myself and playing some shit like totems

Thoughts

[blissful zodiac]

this came out a year after diablo 3 right?

[narrow yoke]

I was not trying to reset just fill potions. But instant death upon return

[blissful zodiac]

so

diablo 3 was so shit

poe happened

[short prairie]

dude hows Ben already getting 2 div altars

i haven seen a single one all league

[blissful zodiac]

no streamer cilent?@short prairie

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-ok-what-weird-realy-gif-2134337080950763703

[surreal mulch]

you can probably do guardian and just use banners sometimes

guardian really strong this time

[true flower]

streamer client

[unique silo]

Nah

[sage falcon]

2 div altars, 2 nimises hmmmm

[vapid junco]

what

2 nimis?

[surreal mulch]

templar cheeses shit because of his early access to absolution

[vapid junco]

????????

[sage falcon]

in the last gauntlet

[vapid junco]

still

[twin arch]

@short prairie hey ssf god make me a gauntlet levelling guide for bannerman pls 🥺

[surreal mulch]

that's called nolife map farming

[sage falcon]

he got one from uber eater and one from a valdos

[short prairie]

[surreal mulch]

what if you just accept that that doesn't exist and you just need to slam for a while?

[short prairie]

and a progen from valdos last gauntlet

[surreal mulch]

at LEAST until lab

probably for longer

[vapid junco]

just make your own

[surreal mulch]

tbf the guy has to clear the valdo so that one is fine

[short prairie]

problem was, it was an ez valdos

[surreal mulch]

oh

what name

[twin arch]

Ur right, bannerman isnt ssf viable

[blissful zodiac]

https://youtu.be/uRaceQxQfgI?si=IAYLvprVBeO6PN82

what hell

[twin arch]

[blissful zodiac]

WORMJAR strikes again

[short prairie]

who said that

just farm the gloves and the lethal pride that give fort and double damage

[twin arch]

Yea but what r u gonna play pre-act 3 that uses the same tree

And doesnt get you demolished by ruin

[short prairie]

? you didnt say in the gauntlet?

[wheat sinew]

brooooo a guild matee (his 2nd league)

[karmic gust]

gain flask charge on crit has global cooldown so this build already doesnt make sense no (plus there is precision watchers noone has to wear that shitty weapon)

[elfin spire]

🥀

[drowsy eagle]

insane indeed

[twin arch]

well saying it now is it no longer ssf viable

[elfin spire]

2 minutes of doing no damage
he's from legion as well, so i probably killed many things before fight with him started

[rose quail]

Bruh. That's insane

[karmic gust]

just grab frost bomb or something to at leaest turn off the regen :d

[surreal mulch]

a lot of duelist trees that early start almost exactly the same