1┃general

[full kraken]

Im still waiting on us getting a spectre that can cast curses reliably as a direct skill so we can try scaling decay dot on them as a 7L

[tight plinth]

waiting for doom guy on youtube to do a full analysis

[potent bramble]

I'm actually not joking lol - right now finding Gwen in a map is somewhat a wasted encounter, but if she were the only way to get logbooks - and probably with a buff to counter the fact that you lose 75% of the potential logbook drops - it wouldn't feel like finding her was inherently a punishment

[cobalt blade]

what if they just revert the lower chance for uniques from her :3

Go back to gwennen mb gambles

[surreal musk]

wow there are a lot of breach wheels on this new atlas

[cobalt blade]

(or atleast make it more reasonable than basically never seeing uniques from her)

[tight plinth]

how good was the gamble back then anyway?

[potent bramble]

As much as I'd love to have a target dummy in the hideout, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that we're basically never gonna get 'em. Could be misinterpreting/misremembering though, 100% possible

[full kraken]

they said the same about async trade tho

[potent bramble]

Truuu

[gritty epoch]

we will never get it but i'd love to punch gwennnen tho

[tight plinth]

yo what

[hexed egret]

Wow are we getting better mace nodes? The ones right now are dog shit holy crap

[full kraken]

Id rather we get some kind of death recap playback/replay first before that though, god I would love that

[hexed egret]

The masteries are shit too

[gritty epoch]

gwennen is a scammer

[potent bramble]

I dunno. I get where you're coming from, but at the same time that feels like it'd probably be significantly harder to keep at a point that's even remotely close to balanced lmao

[full kraken]

like people are focused on "what damage killed me" but Id like a 5s or whatever replay that saves, where you can play it back and pause and see exactly what happened, pause and hover over enemies to see their names/mods, zoom in, move screen, etc

[zealous pebble]

All hits chill + frost breath is easy damage increase for league start

[dim gyro]

i really kinda wanna do betryal cuz of this node alone

[cobalt blade]

i mean they can control weights to keep it balanced make t1 uniques roughly every 1k gambles or something

[hexed egret]

But most mace nodes look so shit compared to staff

[cobalt blade]

Yeah this node seems not bad

Looking forward to the natural 8% hillock drops

[zealous pebble]

Mace tends to be more Dps/ easy stuns generally but staves get access to block

[sturdy venture]

but yeah uhm any idea what would be a good bosser farmer day 1 @gritty epoch or would farming expedition be better day 1? {main issue with that is lack of scarabs}

[potent bramble]

SC or HC, Voide?

[night bone]

:kekw: Atlas Respecialisation Points and Character Respecialisation Points are now capped at 65535 (thank you to the Exile who discovered this was necessary for your contribution to science).

[dim gyro]

can always rush destructive play silo or something. I always seem to see ppl post vids of em doing that and making their first 100 divs off that early on

[gritty epoch]

bosser - shockwave totem, abyssus slammer maybe

[hexed egret]

I mean look at the crit staff nodes Vs mace

Like godamn

[sturdy venture]

dp silo? dont you needa do aload of different map for dp though

[gritty epoch]

u dont kill silo boss

[gritty garnet]

it has a bunch of phases so you kill all the extra bosses grab their drops and run another

[hexed egret]

Man mace nodes really need some love

[gritty garnet]

which definitely should sustain buying more silos from other players

[sturdy venture]

which boss is the silo boss again

[hexed egret]

If I'm not going stun and going elemental conversion it's useless

[full kraken]

vilenta

[umbral crag]

That is a pipe dream and not easy to implement, plus hella additional server load. Now you know for sure what killed you will be lag kekw

[dim gyro]

DP has been buffed this league with astrolabes + exceptiuonal gems so u get more loot

[sturdy venture]

shouldnt need to buy silos since you can just buy tier x maps

[full kraken]

nah its stored locally not server side

[heady cliff]

you mean a bunch of any maps

[sturdy venture]

which should be better no?

[gritty garnet]

mace clusters are pretty good

you get overlord/fortify if you're not pathing to any fortify mastery in particular

[sturdy venture]

so wouldnt a fast clear build be better? or what

[umbral crag]

Imagine a 24hr video in 4k every time you play. Still not very reasonable

[night bone]

Well that's interesting... only affects the quadrant
Voidstones now upgrade the minimum Map Tier of Maps within that specific Atlas Quadrant to 16, cause Maps in that Quadrant to drop one Tier higher, and convert Tier 15 and lower maps found to Gold.

[hexed egret]

Oh?

[dim gyro]

Dp silo is pretty straight forward faster clear build is better for it. very linear

[tight plinth]

i read somewhere maps below t16 would drop as gold, idk if its a keystone or something, where did i read it?

[hexed egret]

So skip the mace nodes on tree?

[potent bramble]

I bet you could do the same strategy in that map that has whats-his-face for the boss. Ressurection Site guy, the zombie-boy. Enter arena, blast down all the other bosses before he fully initializes, then dip out

Unless the other bosses don't spawn in until he's released because the boss fight hasn't started yet

[gritty epoch]

voidstones

[full kraken]

its not stored as actual footage, its stored as data in the form of "entity foo did action at position x/y/z" so its fairly small

[thick goblet]

new voidstone wording

[gritty garnet]

devastator is also 10% pop but I think a lot of people will be playing maces or doing the fracture-swap-enchant thing

[tight plinth]

oh its in the patch notes

[full kraken]

then you use your game engine itself to "play back" the data again

a good example of this is starcraft, which demonstrates this, it tracks and saves the entire match as a data file and then you can go back and rewatch the entire match, pause, hover stuff, etc etc

but for poe it could be a way way smaller snapshot, just tracking the last 5s or whatever on your local client of whats happening

[blazing nymph]

"just"

[full kraken]

which isnt that big, tops you are looking at maybe tracking 200~ entities which is trivial tbh

[sturdy venture]

so what build would be good for DP farming + expedition farming {with the 1 bomb thing or whatever} ideally i would like something tanky as dying is just depressing icl

[full kraken]

"just" in terms of CPU load, thats a very very small amount of data to track, maybe tops a megabyte or two

[umbral crag]

Possibly, but for the game engine with already a poorly optimised CPU utilisation that is gonna be rough

[gritty garnet]

idk about expedition in silo with how narrow it is

[tight plinth]

its not that narrow

[dim gyro]

yea silo isnt it if u wanna do expedition

[cobalt blade]

you arent considering juiced content

[sturdy venture]

no i meant. dp silo or expedition. i want something that can do both well

[full kraken]

PoE actually is an incredibly optimized game, the reason its so taxing is because despite how optimized it is, its attempting a herculean feat literally no other game approaches

[gritty epoch]

KF totem + join an active guild so that u can call for help everytime u brick the expedition immunity

[cobalt blade]

this can get into the range of a few hundred entities on screen with debuffs dots w/e to manage

[tight plinth]

its like triple the width of toxic sewers easily

[thick goblet]

dp and expedition don't really go well together
dp you want to mostly full clear and rush to the end
expedition takes a lot of time and you'd rather just leave after finishing it

[cobalt blade]

like imagine trying to track a jousis build

[potent bramble]

Could always make it a setting, so people aren't worrying about it if they're super casual players or if they're currently at a point where they're expecting to die regularly (6 portal defense, my beloved)

[cobalt blade]

[full kraken]

I am, usually hyper juiced content only has like ~100 entities on screen tops, you wouldnt save the entire zone, just whats within active range, which is about 2 screens

[sturdy venture]

i dont mean both at the same time 💀

[karmic gust]

wait i can just do this

[sturdy venture]

meant a dp silo setup and a seperate expedition farm

[cobalt blade]

bro what just a single strongboxc an have more mobs than this

excluding b eyond

[karmic gust]

[cobalt blade]

or deli

[full kraken]

its actually not that hard, you arent tracking everything, you just track what is needed to recalculate the process

IE lets say you have an extremely complicated formula that takes a computer 1 second to process

But... that formula only takes 2 integer inputs, thats it

You dont need to track the entire formula because thats static and doesnt change, you just need to track the 2 integers, we call this Covariance

[dim gyro]

It'll also depend on how juiced ur planning on doing expeidition to. SIlo just needs fast build but giga juiced expedition usually goes with DoT builds

[full kraken]

You then can "replay" the process using the 2 integers because your engine knows the formula itself, you dont need to save that part

[cobalt blade]

you have 200 mobs hitting you block and gain on hit you have to calculate those mobs

[tight plinth]

also you dont "just" track the last 5 seconds, its either tracking the whole thing or it isnt.

[cobalt blade]

especially if your also g lancing blows

[sturdy venture]

something i was debating playing was blight of contagion but issue is idk how its survival is, and i heard its only got <10mill dps on the high end

[tight plinth]

how would it know when to start the last 5 seconds

[full kraken]

No, you just save that the hit happened, not the outcome of the hit, because you can recalculate the outcome again because its deterministic if you know the prior state before that

[full kraken]

its a constant rolling window

[tight plinth]

thats even worse, it starts and restarts every 5 seconds?

[full kraken]

no... rolling window means every 1s you add to the end and drop the oldest 1s

[cobalt blade]

my dude you have the know the outcome of the hit for how much total life you gained from the block on hit

or steal charges on hit/gain charges

or really anything that has to calculate different vs each mob

[full kraken]

except even more optimal in dev, you actually go back to the start of the of data and write overtop of the old data so you dont need to alloc more

[blazing nymph]

GGG have already come out and said that this would be possible if they had a different engine. Difficult, and resource expensive, but possible. However, they have their engine. And it isn't possible.

[umbral crag]

Hits have ranges and things like chance to block etc can't be recalculated no? It has to be recorded

[full kraken]

No, you dont, you can recalculate that that would happen because its deterministic once you know the prior state

this is basic state machine stuff

[cobalt blade]

like if i really tried im sure i could come up with an outcome that would destroy the servers trying to calculate it

[blazing nymph]

Good thing poe runs as a basic state machine, then

[potent bramble]

I have to agree with Naca, at least in part. Even though something like damage reduction is a static formula, anything that includes a percentage - like evasion - would have to be stored as the result of the roll, including who did the hit, who got hit, etc. Because if you have a 60% chance to evade (numbers sourced from a hat) and you fail, and that's what killed you, then recalculating that attack is only going to be accurate 40% of the time - the 40% where you fail the evasion check.

[full kraken]

all of that is based on an RNG seed that gets re-used, you only need to know the starting seed and then everything after that is deterministic

[full kraken]

nope, its all deterministic given you know the starting RNG state, and as long as you track everything that possibly rolled the RNG seed 1 step forward

[cobalt blade]

in the case of evasion its also got entropy

[full kraken]

if I start with RNG seeded with a value of 123456789

And then I perform the same 10 actions in a row that use that RNG seed, they will have the exact same outcomes

[cobalt blade]

and now you want the server to recalculate all this when someone dies every time someone dies

[dim gyro]

yea cant help you there i never really went to super high end expedition cuz it's too build specify + risky for the value it brings

[full kraken]

...no... the server isnt involved in this at all

[cobalt blade]

it still has to be calculated assuming you know the rng seed and every mob like what

it is your game does not have the rng seed

[proud gorge]

I don't think PoE is saving their deterministic RNG seed before every calculation

[sturdy venture]

i just wanna farm money: (

[blazing nymph]

The server wouldn't be, if the game were coded to make this work.

[proud gorge]

especially when there's a bunch of calculations happening simultaneously

[dim gyro]

can do anything to make money in this game

[sturdy venture]

i mean early league

kinda why i was considering dp or expe

but its like idk man

[full kraken]

they almost definitely are, getting a new RNG seed everytime is expensive, whereas re-using your random source over and over is a pretty bog standard way to make your RNG rolling stuff perform much faster

[mental violet]

is the new atlas tree generated somwhere

[cobalt blade]

if you want an actual provable source of this desyncs of shaper attacks or o therwise on predictive

where he does beam then slams you

[proud gorge]

its a lot less "deterministic" if the RNG is "skipping" numbers because they're being used on other things, or if its modifying the RNG with the time tick

[sturdy venture]

i wanted to do like expedition with just tree nodes until i can get scarabs after a few leagues of league dropping since idk prob wont exist till then but then i wanna go the increased reward thing

[blazing nymph]

Objection your honour, speculation about someone else's code!

[cobalt blade]

because your client thought he beamed server says slam you die

[dim gyro]

shouldn't be looking into giga juiced expedition then. regular big boom u'll be fine

[full kraken]

this is a very indsutry standard practice, even a fairly junior game dev knows to do this

[proud gorge]

my point is that unless they're saving where exactly they are in the RNG sequence before every single calculation, and also any other info that goes into the RNG, they're not going to be able to realistically backtrack the random number generator

[full kraken]

yes youd need to track every single thing that caused a roll

[blazing nymph]

When the goal is to make a system that can have a death recap, sure

[sturdy venture]

i wasnt talking about uber expe tbh, meant like just tree for day 1 then the scarabs for inc reward and stuff like that

but i want a build that can do dp silo + that yk? {not at same time}

[full kraken]

I believe you actually can rollback most of the common RNG based formulas from a given point, if you know your current position you can work backwards from there the exact same way you work it forward

[dim gyro]

most of the recommended starters will do fine with that

[sturdy venture]

fair but i wanna do it fast and not take forever on it yk?

[full kraken]

...no when the goal is for your game to not perform like hot garbage you do this

[potent bramble]

I'll freely admit that I'm not experienced enough in the world of programming to know anything as ironclad fact. That being said, I feel like it's gotta be one of those things where it's either easy to implement and they've intentionally decided not to do so, or it's impractical due to some combination of hardware concerns, software concerns, accuracy concerns, etc etc that has led them to a point where so far it hasn't been worth the effort it would take to overcome those hurdles.

'Cause for all the crap we collectively give GGG, it's undeniable that they're generally very good at what they do

[sturdy venture]

kinda why i was consider blight of contagion since it can just tap and nuke it

i think

[proud gorge]

you can roll back ancient RNG sequences from like 20 years ago on gameboy because they didn't use time as an input on rolls, so you just had a preset sequence of numbers that could be found and exploited

[blazing nymph]

They discard so much information because it performs better than saving it 😄

[full kraken]

Id say the #1 source of concern would be exposing the current RNG seed to the players, theres ways that could be abused

The only way you could mitagate it would be to totally reroll the RNG seed right after you do that as a precaution

[proud gorge]

but even if PoE used one of those, which it probably doesn't, they'd also have to keep track of every single RNG call in any piece of code that's running for the entire duration of the "death recap"

[blazing nymph]

The last time this was discussed by the devs,it was the latter

[worthy cave]

Oh wow

Breach has a LOT of stuff on the tree

Like a LOT A LOT

[full kraken]

... Im talking about the practice of persisting your Random() source such that your seed "steps forward" each time you use it, that practice is industry standard in general for any game

[worthy cave]

Although I have a question question

[cobalt blade]

an answer answer

[worthy cave]

How good is the tree gonna be?

[final owl]

are we arguing if a death log is a reasonable thing to expect poe to add or something

[worthy cave]

For rare gear?

[cobalt blade]

we dont know

[blazing nymph]

Of course

[cobalt blade]

all we know is weapons/quiver removed links worse and lower mod tier rating

[proud gorge]

Pixxel, the point is that you'd have to keep track of every single call of Random for the entire duration of the entire death recap no matter how relevant or irrelevant the source

[full kraken]

yes, which should be fine, there shouldnt be anything invoking RNG rolls in the zone outside of active entities doing things, what else would be rolling the RNG for a given instance?

[cobalt blade]

but we dont know the numbers for links/mod tier rating

[blazing nymph]

It's such a comfy old argument

[dim gyro]

iisnt it exactly the same as be4?

[worthy cave]

I mean on atlas tree

[final owl]

surely that's obvious "technically possible but 100% not worth the development effort" territory

[worthy cave]

it's completely reworked

[cobalt blade]

the amount of calls here is kinda insane for yknow damage ranges crit entropy accuracy just on you attacking

[blazing nymph]

You'd think

[cobalt blade]

on 200 diferent mobs

[dim gyro]

yea it's the exaclt the same amount of stuff on atlas tree

[worthy cave]

oh wow

[blazing nymph]

Apparently it's actually closer to "barely possible and would require an engine rewrite, plus the servers would catch fire"

[full kraken]

It honestly isnt, people underestimate how hard a CPU can go BRRRRR

You can store entire gigabytes of data per second with RAM, and we'd be asking mere megabytes of it

[proud gorge]

random animation positioning, random projectile variance, random visual effect variance, random enemy movement, random AI decisions, other calculations going on simultaneously on different threads (nondeterministic calculation order), etc, etc, etc

[cobalt blade]

the thing your just not taking into acount is they dont want to give the player this information

so the server has to deal with it all

[final owl]

well, hardly surprising. Seems pretty obvious it's a thing you need to make a core function of the game / engine from the start if it's something you feel is important. And they didn't.. obviously.

[cobalt blade]

like even if what your saying is accurate for poe's code which who knows

[proud gorge]

yeah, tracking full info on every single function would require a pretty significant rewrite of a lot of basic functions to log every single time they called Random

for any reason

[final owl]

15 years and 27 expansions later.. man. I can only imagine what PoEs codebase looks like now. That ship has sailed I reckon. a looooong time ago

[blazing nymph]

At this point i think pixxel needs to just get a garage in NZ and make his own PoE. With blackjack, and hookers

[sturdy venture]

what would be good build for day 1 destructive play silo farming or day 1 expedition atlas tree {big boom} farm into expedition with scarabs {when they become available }

[proud gorge]

as well as what position they're in, because again, nondeterministic execution order due to multithreaded processes

[full kraken]

1. there isnt any RNG in the AI system afaik, actually, its deterministic
2. Im not aware of any RNG in the animation system, afaik that is also deterministic
3. You cant share random() across threads or if you try and do that you fucked something up, its exceedingly unlikely there even is a second thread of anything noteworthy going on, typically engines are single threaded for very very good reasons, aside from Loading/Unloading of the scene (loading screens) you cant parallelize most of the stuff involved in a game engine. And if you do try and do it, you find out why no one does it pretty quick lol

[worthy cave]

I'm not sure anything is particularly good for juiced expedition on a low budget

maybe some sort of evisc elementalist with some ignite prolif?

[wintry lily]

damn, didnt notice there were fuckin shrine changes

[worthy cave]

pop a boom, block everything, retaliate?

[full kraken]

I havent deep dived into the AI lua exports you can see on poedb, but I dont think there is RNG to it, entities AI is deterministic as a set of priority actions

[worthy cave]

and hope you don't get murderized?

[full kraken]

"if I can do this, I do that, else, I try and do this, if I cant do that then I do this" and so on

as just a priority of what they will do if conditions are satisfied

its why minions will always prioritize <skill> if its off cooldown

[proud gorge]

I'd be very surprised if all enemy AI is deterministic, given their semi-random movements when on screen but not locked onto the player

[sturdy venture]

i was considering blight of contagion since you just tap on 1 enemy and it spreads to the rest? idk

[full kraken]

thats just pathing algorithms going BRRRRRR

[proud gorge]

like, it's possible it is, but I'd be surprised to hear that

[worthy cave]

that's all well and good for the trash

[dense roost]

Does Headhunter trigger from totem kills if you use Ballista totem?

[worthy cave]

but then you get left with the soul eater that just nommed 100 mobs

and you die horribly

I think?

[full kraken]

you move 1 square and suddenly the greedy search pathing is a totally different route, because of crowd pathing being complicated

[proud gorge]

no I'm talking about the, like, milling around they do

[potent bramble]

I think the simple answer - if they wanted to have a way for the player to see what killed them - would just be some sort of a pie chart, maybe even in the same group of charts as like the ping and computer load and such, that tracks the last like 20 sources of damage, and if they were hits vs spells, crit or not, etc.

[soft perch]

https://www.pathofpathing.com/?v=3.28.0-atlas-league#AAAABgAAMi0EFmIY7STBMQc48jpGQgxE2kbbSdRTYVipYCFrNnBQcXVzEXY6d1F9PoZQhlmLGI2hkgScnKAroeKjGaNuo8-3UbhKu8O_ssNNycLPDtYt2FzmT-rK7675Dv1kH8ReKmQwZX1xdQAA here me out chat

[full kraken]

oh thats actually a good point, that might involve some RNG, maybe not

[proud gorge]

when they're not aggroed onto anything

[soft perch]

im clicking hive nodes.

[final owl]

I'd be pretty surprised if there was no randomised seeding of AI actions on any level

[cobalt blade]

yes you get the mods

[full kraken]

I dunno if its random though, it might be fixed and if you observe it, you'd see they are just repeating an action over and over

[full kraken]

ehhh, that definitely introduces a lot of overhead and makes debugging harder, so you usually dont add in RNG if you dont have to

lemme go check though

[proud gorge]

point being, there's probably a ton of things in PoE that call Random, both in calculations and outside of them, and there's no way GGG has any real desire to go through and catalog every single instance of it everywhere in the code

[final owl]

anyway, we're wasting important arguing about shrine belt stuff time with this conversation.

[proud gorge]

and then modify all those functions to save and report their use of random

[final owl]

won't someone think of the shrine belts.

[shrewd fiber]

does exsanguinate have more clear than crackling lance mines? why dont people run crackling lance more, it seems solid

[cobalt blade]

holy all hives worst atlas frfr

[potent bramble]

Could also include some sort of threshold like 'must have taken more than 200 damage, or been a DoT/debuff/ground effect' to solve any random chip damage that wouldn't matter

[blazing nymph]

You're right, we need to keep people focussed on the shrine belt so my mageblood will be cheap

[finite quail]

crackling lance is cool but gameplay wise it feels lackluster

[blazing nymph]

That stuff adds up so fast, it's often what contributes to a death

[proud gorge]

Exsanguinate is a very powerful chaining skill that sort of chains through a group of enemies extremely well, killing them all extremely efficiently yeah. Meanwhile Crackling Lance is just a weirdly shaped AoE (with holes in it sometimes)

[full kraken]

You dont have to lol

[cobalt blade]

they should revert replenishing smh

[shrewd fiber]

interesting, i see

[cobalt blade]

i want my infinite mana regen (:

[proud gorge]

if you want to be able to backtrack Random to see exactly what random number it generated on a particular calculation, you kind of do yeah

either that or record the number somewhere before usign it

[pliant hamlet]

So, been a bit, anything broken figured out for reliquarian that isn't mines?

[potent bramble]

Sure, but if you died to a burst of several sources of random chip damage, then either you just got giga unlucky, or your recovery isn't where it should be. And in either case, knowing the exact specifics of how you died seems a tad irrelevant IMO

[finite quail]

replenishing got COMPLETELY gutted holy shit

[worthy cave]

btw guys how expensive do we think foulborn doedre's scorn and vixen's will be on start?

[blazing nymph]

And that's exactly why they don't bother trying to implement a death recap, most of the time the details don't actually matter

[full kraken]

There might be something to cook with abusing "debuffs expire 100% faster"

[cobalt blade]

yaaaa

[finite quail]

The life regen is still cool though

[cobalt blade]

5c

[finite quail]

but it should never be increased mana regen

[cobalt blade]

but rly who knows is paak making a video that will dictate price

[worthy cave]

use it with another warped timepiece and use deli boots

[full kraken]

I didnt even bother with vixens tbh, it worked just fine as a 5L on its own lol

[potent bramble]

Though tbf, if you're building around Evasion and you die because you took damage after dodging 2000 attacks... then you died to the exact expected interaction between incoming damage and how you've elected to survive it. So there's not much to report on there either

[finite quail]

It should have gotten nerfed but the %mana regen made smaller, not gutted with inc mana regen

[pliant hamlet]

bold of you to assume people are gonna trade with chaos

[cobalt blade]

it should be generic mana leech instead :333

[pliant hamlet]

5gcp

[cobalt blade]

5 maven chisels

[finite quail]

Honestly that's cool too I wouldn't mind that

Finally some mana leech for spells

[proud gorge]

yeah, I assume the logic there is that they don't want it to completely solve mana by itself, particularly for spell builds where mana regen investment is supposed to be a real limitation against casting a million spells per second

[lucid gale]

Made a contribution recap for you:

[cobalt blade]

(it would be completely busted)

[full kraken]

Im debating leaguestarting 60 fuckin phantasms the build

[finite quail]

ACTUALLY WAIT HOLD ON

Now with imbued gems

what if you got lvl 1 mana leech

[cobalt blade]

atttacks only

[finite quail]

on your spell

[finite quail]

FUCK

[potent bramble]

Which honestly is leading me to the camp of "What meaningful information would you get from a death recap that wouldn't be immediately obvious from looking at your defensive stats"

[full kraken]

Hmm, doesnt account for life lost >:c

[cobalt blade]

they do not want us to have spell mana leech

[proud gorge]

mana leech doesn't apply to spells yeah

[finite quail]

https://tenor.com/view/mikrocypek-rage-pomidor-gif-4786073979554173269

[proud gorge]

there's explicitly no spell mana leech anywhere

[cobalt blade]

the only source of it in the game rn is legacy vinktars in standard

lol

[worthy cave]

shouldn't that be the purpose of a chase item tho?

[sly minnow]

can I find if holy sweep deals fire damage or lightning damage converted

[full kraken]

the main thing I wanna be able to do is hover over enemies and see their mods, as well as hover my buffs/debuffs, as thats almost always the real culprit as to wtf I died to

[worthy cave]

Hey Zao, is it too late for Pathfinder's master distiller to get some sort of emergency buff for this league?

Nobdoy played it last league even with its buffs

[full kraken]

almost all of my death recaps its some debuff that Im like "wait wtf is that debuff" and its like "oh yeah this debuff is some esoteric thing that springles your jorkle which negates half your PDR while skrinkin"

[potent bramble]

I'm pretty sure I have successfully killed myself once by sacrificing too much of my life at a really bad time, but I suppose that's technically still damage of a sort

[worthy cave]

Maybe just have it not consume charges on travel skills?

[onyx adder]

Its on the gem, which is available on the website: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3914006

[proud gorge]

sure, but at the same time the degree of mana regen the shrine belt gave was probably nonetheless too much, like, gamebreakingly too much, with the already incredibly strong mana builds

[harsh flame]

Woah now, gunning for @golden phoenix' job are we?

[soft perch]

the most bait node is unironically all unstable breaches

unstable breaches drop terrible loot

[blazing nymph]

Fuck, i literally played a Vaal Pact instaleech Glacial Cascade Berserker in fucking Harbinger league. God, i'm old

[soft perch]

and you cant get fortresses if you click it

its actually unclickable

[cobalt blade]

hard disagree just because unstable breach is fun hives is not

[worthy cave]

not if you have twin bosses in there which drop breach rings

[bitter bluff]

P̯̉̏ͦͯA͑̓̿ͦ̾T̿̿̏ͬ͛Hͮͨ̒̉̚ ͑ͬ̾͌ͯOͨ͐̒̽ͣF EX̌̍Ȉ̖̊̿ͪL̀͋̅ͮͧE̎̑͆̏

[cobalt blade]

the most bait node is not taking remove breaches from maps though

[worthy cave]

and then have 6 unstables per map

[full kraken]

I feel like the main profit margin is gonna be unstable breaches ring farming ngl

[soft perch]

bro

[finite quail]

fastest and also worst loot

[worthy cave]

that's what...9 bosses a map?

[final owl]

As much as I like the idea of a death recap, vaguely, I can't really imagine it giving me useful information anyway. "oh man, the enemies did more damage than I had health. I should get more.. health? and defences?" isn't that the conclusion you come to anyway..

[full kraken]

long term I think all people will really care about are breach rings

[soft perch]

they nerfed foulborn choir quite hard

[proud gorge]

maybe someone at GGG was like "Hey, turns out Indigon Archmage Mana stack with the Replenishing Belt and a bunch of mana regeneration effect lets you deal hundreds of billions of damage"

[soft perch]

breach rings entirely hinge on that one esh mod and if dex stacking is ok

[full kraken]

See my above statement here #1┃general message

[cobalt blade]

50% nerf

[soft perch]

i guess chayula chests but theyve fallen out of favour

breach rings aint that good

[proud gorge]

or something

[worthy cave]

Tul

[proud gorge]

Idk some mana build

[worthy cave]

that's a Tul mod

[potent bramble]

Now that I can understand wanting. Though I can't think of any way to implement it that wouldn't feel both horrible to use and also overwhelming to process mentally. Mayhaps the ultimate solution is just to play slower so you have time to think and react?

[blazing nymph]

I can agree that leaving debuff icons up would be useful

[proud gorge]

the mana builds are already incredibly strong

[cobalt blade]

also your forgetting armour stacker exists

[soft perch]

i know it is

[cobalt blade]

enthropic rings will be sold for that mod

[worthy cave]

armor stackers want xoph mod

[finite quail]

wasnt the mod on it halved or something

[final owl]

that has potential i guess. at least then you can connect the dots

[finite quail]

That's quite bad yeah

[soft perch]

ya it also exists but the main pricy ring was esh ring

cuz of choir

[cobalt blade]

enthropic were around the same price for a while as well

atleast in non phrecia

[full kraken]

even just literally capturing the exact state of everything frozen in time on your death so you can move and mouse around and hover the enemies and hover your stats, no need to playback, just everything frozen in time as a single frame you can inspect

[worthy cave]

but now that foulborn choir is nerfed

[proud gorge]

like, shrine belt solving crit for you is fair, because you could already pretty reasonably hit 100% crit chance with moderate investment, so it just saves you a bit of investment

[soft perch]

still, all unstable breaches is kinda bad because it turns off hive fortresses

[worthy cave]

then esh isn't worth anymore?

[worthy cave]

marylene's

suddenly you get mondo crit mult for free

[cobalt blade]

ppl will prolly still run it

i think choirs still your best source of inc mana

atleast high end

just worse mid end

[proud gorge]

yeah, I remember running that on Surfcaster

[full kraken]

Oh god, crit belt with impale reap

[proud gorge]

point being, though, even then guarenteed crit isn't that busted

[cobalt blade]

consider

[potent bramble]

I actually literally thought of that right as you typed it out. That'd probably feel smooth enough to not be a problem, and presumably shouldn't be too difficult to implement (he says from a place of ignorance). Especially if they could couple it with the ability to drag the 'ressurect in town' box so you can hover the enemy that's on the player

[cobalt blade]

explosion crit and herald crit

[empty ivy]

updated skill tree https://poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/

[full kraken]

making phys spells crit can produce some pretty busted dps ngl, especially on champion

[lucid gale]

The more interesting aspects would probably not be whatever you're doing but what enemies and the environment was doing, suggesting what you might be lacking in defenses or positioning.

[cobalt blade]

that is where guaranteed crit is good

[proud gorge]

but presumably the numbers they were seeing with Replenishing Belt, specifically on Mana builds, were a real problem

[opal ingot]

Thanks

[proud gorge]

which is probably why it got nerfed

[cobalt blade]

if you sc aled mana regen rate im pretty sure you could get well over 100% of your mana pool per second lmfao

it was balanced for suuure

[lucid gale]

The wider your curiosity is, the more things you'd have to book-keep in parallel to the actual simulation, and the harder it is to present.

[worthy cave]

btw zao, why does ranger tree defense suck so much, even though suppress was nerfed?

[onyx adder]

Im in for a death recap that just says skill issue whenever u die

[proud gorge]

especially since, again, Mana builds are already some of the strongest builds in the game

[worthy cave]

Like couldn't ranger tree have gotten some sort of comepnsation buffs for defense?

[opal ingot]

I want a death recap that plays the last 5 Seconds and goes super slowmo at the last second and zooms in on the projectile that killed you

[pliant hamlet]

the problem with buffing ranger defensively is pf exists lol

[worthy cave]

so?

[proud gorge]

I mean, it's Ranger

[lucid gale]

One of my favourite UI touches in PoE2 is that the death screen has a hooded figure playing a violin.

[proud gorge]

Ranger's whole thing is being fast, long range, and high damage, in exchange for dying to a stiff breeze

[worthy cave]

PF doesn't have much inherent defense in her ascendancy

[worthy cave]

she has a good recovery node yes

[fathom fjord]

???????????????

[worthy cave]

but most of PF's defenses come from itemization

[pliant hamlet]

👀 that's certainly a take

[worthy cave]

I'm saying she doesn't have somehing like a masterful form or champ's foprtify

[full kraken]

just capturing a shot of every entity active within the "active entity" range, frozen in time, including stuff like projectiles and etc, and what effects are active on everything (mods, zone mods, buffs, debuffs, etc), would prolly go a lonnnnnnng way

PS: I wonder to what extent ya'lls "export hideout" functionality would theoretically be re-usable for such a thing lol, I assume under the hood "doodad in my hideout" and "enemy in a map" have a lot in common right?

[worthy cave]

or Cheiftain's Valako, Gladiator's more than skill

[finite quail]

recovery is not defense

[pliant hamlet]

She has inherent 100% uptime on flasks

[worthy cave]

which is trivial in the endgame

roll flagellants + use when full instilling

[fathom fjord]

Perma flasks is defense

[worthy cave]

not that much defense really

[fathom fjord]

If you don't understand the difference between full uptime buffed flasks and conditional flasks idk what to say

[worthy cave]

1500 flat eva is nice, but not the end of the world

[pliant hamlet]

mageblood is such a bad item, it's just permanent uptime on flasks

[worthy cave]

let's not go nuts here and compare PF to say, masterful form

[pliant hamlet]

[fathom fjord]

But I remember you as the dude with hot and bad takes now

[proud gorge]

there's a reason why Mageblood is the single strongest defensive item in the game

[worthy cave]

mageblood is permanent uptime on 95% inc. effect flasks

[sturdy venture]

so what build would be good for day 1/2 expedition {tree then scarabs} and/or Destructive play silo { i wanna swap between the 2 ideally}

[proud gorge]

and it only works on magic flasks even

[pliant hamlet]

mageblood isn't permanent uptime on the good flasks

[mental violet]

now that the good beasts cannot be forced at all what do you think the base value of adding in einhar is

[pliant hamlet]

like progenesis

[full kraken]

Id definitely say PF is the second tankiest ascendancy in the game, after gladiator

Though a PF with svalinn gives gladiator a run for its money

[worthy cave]

Progenesis is a 100 div item lmfao

[proud gorge]

there's some wild-ass unique flasks

[pliant hamlet]

Mageblood is even more

and?

[full kraken]

what do you mean by "forced"?

[pliant hamlet]

I thought we were talking about endgame

[worthy cave]

I mean tearly endgame

I.E. roll flagellant flasks + use when charges full

[mental violet]

no kirac maps "containing harvest beasts"

[proud gorge]

one of the biggest downsides of Mageblood is that it doesn't work with all the busted-ass unique flasks out there

[worthy cave]

like which ones?

[potent bramble]

I'm guessing there's some application I'm not considering here, but that Saresh bloodline feels kinda... eh? Cruelty for main hand weapon seems like it could be very solid, but the other two I'm struggling to envision a good use-case for 'em

[proud gorge]

actual downside, that is

[full kraken]

were people actually actively farming those? afaik most people just spammed maps with zoomy zoom builds to get beasts

[worthy cave]

Progenesis is good yes

but it's also a 100 div item

are we going to be balancing an entire section of the tree around a 100 div flask?

[cobalt blade]

yes

[worthy cave]

Fuck off.

[full kraken]

is there somewhere I can view it in an actual layout?

[fathom fjord]

Taste of hate is a 1c item

[heady cliff]

yes, this is main reason scouting reports were not 1 alch

[mental violet]

i could be wrong about einhar being good

[heady cliff]

but a few c

[potent bramble]

I'm thinkin' like Bleed Cyclone or something might be real solid, if there's room to squeeze it in with the normal ascendency

[fathom fjord]

Sorrow of the divine is a 1c item

[cobalt blade]

but also your underestimating taste of hate dying sun(albiet for offence here) bottled faith

[potent bramble]

Somebody with a green name popped in and said poedb was updated

[opal ingot]

Probably a bad take but I think The economy will balance it out
Lesser harvest beasts - > more expensive - > more ppl run harvest - > competition - > undercut pro max

[cobalt blade]

same thing for offence on faith

[worthy cave]

Sorrow of the Divine requires a pretty specialized setup and the loss of your timeless jewel for a keystone

[opal ingot]

There might be changes but the difference might be inconsequential if you're not a dad gamer handling 5 kids

[cobalt blade]

and its balanced around you using those in combination with recovery from surgeon if your playing pf

[pliant hamlet]

Tides of Time + a strong set of flasks is pretty cheap

and is a ton of survival

[cobalt blade]

keystone is not required its just good

[opal ingot]

And as a consequence, craicic chinerals will be cheaper XD

[sturdy venture]

what build would be good for day 1/2 expedition {tree then scarabs} and/or Destructive play silo { i wanna swap between the 2 ideally}

[opal ingot]

That shit is abundant

[onyx adder]

If thats chuan he runs poedb

[muted ledge]

A caster with the Mirage bloodline and Blood Mage sounds fun to try

[onyx adder]

U can talk to him if u want he's super nice

[muted ledge]

Get to like 6k like

[limpid prairie]

Mines for bossing?

[surreal musk]

adorned builds seem unfeasible now with birds being way less common , mirror crafters will just buy all the birds 🙁

[pliant hamlet]

1 - any build with pops or good clear, especially prismatic clear. If you're willing to look at mods, ignite prolif/poison prolif are really good too
2 - any fast builds in general.

[noble sleet]

What exactly are these “imbued gems”

[onyx adder]

Its a level 1 support stuck on to ur level 20 skill gem

[potent bramble]

Most of the people who maintain any sort of public resource for POE are quality humans, but I didn't want to accidentally misattribute credit lol. I'm not colorblind though, so I felt confident in my "Someone with a green name" haha

[proud gorge]

I mean, Progenesis is a whole endgame in and of itself, Coruscating enables entire builds, Cinderswallow Urn gives mad recovery, Olroth's Resolve obviously has one main build but it's a good one, Sorrow of the Divine and Rumi's Concoction are classics for good reason yeah, there's also recent favorite Wine of the Prophet and Bottled Faith, but you can usually use those even with Mageblood since they tend to be on activation effects

[onyx adder]

So u get to run a bad 7L

[limpid prairie]

Imagine heist enchants buy gems

[worthy cave]

is mamba the only big poison prolif skill?

[proud gorge]

Oriath's End if you love explosions

[potent bramble]

Good name to recognize tho

[proud gorge]

I do also like Witchfire

[pliant hamlet]

I mean, any big poison hit functions. Mamba is just the most popular. Even something like pconc isn't bad due to how poison prolif works with a lot of white mobs

[steady elk]

Is it just me or does it seem the changes and patch notes etc seem a lot larger than keepers was?

[proud gorge]

it's a very nice item

[limpid prairie]

Size isn't everything

[sturdy venture]

i was planning on doing the uh big boom thing so mods wouldnt be a option lol

[final owl]

cope

[potent bramble]

Part of that is because Harbingers were removed, so there's a lot of changelog lines handling all of those cascading effects

[full kraken]

Was there like... a specific reason given as to why ggg is removing harbingers

[final owl]

but i mean of course the 3.28 patch notes are bigger. 3.28 is a rework league

[worthy cave]

basically a couple of things screw you over: every 4 seconds, mobs regen 30% of their HP, % chance to block atk/spell dmg, and immunity to your damage type

[slow pebble]

whats everyones plans? i cant decide between self cast kinetic fusilade, glacial cascade miner, or the new miner starter from fearlessdumb

[worthy cave]

problem being the rares are a major PITA

[pliant hamlet]

but yeah reducing a granite flask to "just" 1500 armour is a bit misleading. Here's a stacked speed build using tides of time:

[full kraken]

removing harbingers when torment ghosts and fuckin talismans still exist feels insane ngl

[worthy cave]

life flask, progen, sorrow, quicksilver

so that's your last flask?

[final owl]

leaving talismans in takes zero effort, fixing harbingers apparently a big job they just didn't have time for for 3.28 so chose to just temporarily remove them. they are planning to rework them apparently

[pliant hamlet]

?

[full kraken]

I feel like lots of people enjoyed harbingers...

no one in 2026 wouldve been upset if ggg got rid of talismans, or better yet migrated everything involving torment over to just be the far superior version of them (Sentinels)

[kindred silo]

i mean why remove them at all

[cyan canyon]

talisman is chris wilson's favorite mechanic so it'll never leave.

[potent bramble]

I like the joke answer of "Mark is prejudiced against blue people" but the actual answer afaik is that he didn't think they fit into the overall look of the game, as well as they just overall weren't keeping up with the quality standards that GGG wants to hold itself to.

From what I understand, they'll be returning after a rework. I have half a memory of them saying the goal was return in 3.29 but that could absolutely be a fever dream

[full kraken]

All they had to remove was just horizon orbs no?

[steady elk]

I didn't get into endgame much, what are harbingers?

[full kraken]

to make room for better stuff people actually enjoy

[potent bramble]

But "Mark just really hates the Blue Man Group" is just so much funnier than the reasonable/rational answer

[pliant hamlet]

It's a speed build @worthy cave, it uses silver+quicksilver+2x defensive + permanent life flask w/ 100% uptime on everything, 90% block chance and as much movement speed as you can stack on top of it. has ~1m ehp, 40k max hits and 400% ms

[full kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/ajr-ajr-brothers-blue-man-group-ordinaryish-people-gif-25074219

[worthy cave]

so it's a heist build?

[pliant hamlet]

I'm just saying flasks are better than you're making them out to be

[sturdy venture]

yea thats why i was considering blight of contagion to destroy it tbh but issue is, it wouldnt be able to do destructive play due to lack of single target

[full kraken]

400% is only halfway to a heist build tbh

[pliant hamlet]

I have no idea what they were using it for, could be heist, could be lab

[opal ingot]

Blue guys with unreadable text

[pliant hamlet]

yeah I'd want more speed less tank in heist

[sturdy venture]

enchanting table language

[worthy cave]

welcome to my expedition conundrum

[sturdy venture]

wdym

[worthy cave]

The juiced rares

[final owl]

we don't live in the perfect world we just get this one I guess.

[worthy cave]

wiping the trash is one thing on low budget

the juiced rares OTOH

kind of a big problem

[opal ingot]

What are all these acronyms

[worthy cave]

On the othe rhand

[potent bramble]

TL;DR, unique undamagable enemy that spawns a bunch'a regular (also blue) enemies. Kill regular ones, repeatedly. Killing 'em deals damage to unique boi. Unique boi drops shards on death, and every once in a while you get shards that are worth picking up in spite of the RSI.

And then sometimes there's like a 'boss' Harbinger, which is literally just the same thing but BIGGER. And he spawns in a few of the 'normal' harbs who then do their thing like normal

[opal ingot]

Grok what's otoh

[sturdy venture]

nah i meant blight of contagion wouldnt be able to do destructive play due to lack of single target

[worthy cave]

I meant for expedition

[full kraken]

like afaik everything else about harbingers fits fine with the new atlas setup

harbinger orb +1 tier'ing maps works fine, and unique harbinger maps still fit in the new atlas

[worthy cave]

yeah for destrucive play that's all about single target

[pliant hamlet]

since you mentioned the unique setup, here's a semi-popular version of forbidden rite:
https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepers/character/Aenorielle-2046/TsunTsunTsundere

[sturdy venture]

im aware but im wanting to do do silo and or silo {swapping between then}

[opal ingot]

I get it now, so the harbinger rework will have an Uber variant that spawns harbinger bosses that spawns normal harbingers

[gritty epoch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1rh9vfs/i_feel_like_some_of_yall_are_just_making_up/

[full kraken]

that already existed too haha, beachhead was a map you ran with a boss like that

[limpid prairie]

Mood

[opal ingot]

Oh

[pliant hamlet]

they made a bot on the reddit because of this 😄

It's funny because it even defines simple oens like "GGG"

[noble sleet]

I see.. this games terminology and how much they add confuses me 😂 i forgot what awakened gems were and now there’s exceptional what does it all mean..

[potent bramble]

All act bosses replaced with Harbingers, actually. 3.29 is Harbinger 2.0, every unique enemy was replaced with the exact same model but dipped in various paint colors. Absolutely nothing else has been changed

[opal ingot]

Then there's a rainbow harbinger that is a loot goblin

Fast ms and runs away, if you don't kill it fast enough it portals out

[full kraken]

harbingers 2.0 are gonna be the exact same as 1.0 except they'll be bright purple now and add a bunch of random walls to your map that get in your way and have to be destroyed and you cant disable them til 3.30

[limpid prairie]

Harbingers now go to the future and attack your internet connection

[potent bramble]

So... just a Tormented Spirit but with loot?

[gritty epoch]

Check out this EB MOM LL EO PC stacking FRoSS hiero

[opal ingot]

Do tormented spirits disappear in time assuming there's nothing to possess

[full kraken]

that was betrayal league pretty sure

[potent bramble]

I believe if they can't possess anything, they run away from the player 3 times and then break free of the shakles and leave

[slow sonnet]

Cock, is his true?

[opal ingot]

Oh til

[pliant hamlet]

saw an eb mom ci build lol

[carmine notch]

every level 100 is tied for position 1

[full kraken]

EBs mom takes the double L on my PC, fer-ross broi

[potent bramble]

Or rather, they run away a maximum of 3 times, and try to possess something whenever possible

[pliant hamlet]

it's finally possible to play eb ci mom

[zealous plank]

If I have +1 to minimum x charge + count as having maximum number of x charges, is there any point at all in generating x charges in any way since I always have one + that one counts as max?

[wintry lily]

dont worry

the blue man squad will come back as keepers 2

with walls

[limpid prairie]

If you count as max charges you count as max charges
No need for any charges

[potent bramble]

Uhh, I think so? Because "count as having maximum charges" doesn't mean you have them, it means the conditionals for having max charges are satisfied. I don't think you get the inherent per-charge bonus from that

[gritty epoch]

No, but u can generate brutal charges with ralakesh etc

[final owl]

wall jokes. such fertile ground.

[carmine notch]

you won't be able to spend any charges for skills like flicker, but other than that no

[thorn lotus]

can't consume "count as max" charges

[pliant hamlet]

https://pobb.in/FPYtUvraynON

[potent bramble]

That said I don't play charge-centric builds often, so don't trust me implicitly

[pliant hamlet]

I wish this was playable in ssf, I want to play this stupid meme build lol

maybe if foulborn romiras aren't too rare

[worthy cave]

welp, THAT'S a base

[cobalt blade]

bro has not used ralakesh 🥀

[gritty epoch]

A question so badly worded that 3 of us answered 3 different questions

[worthy cave]

as the mountain + dark arts anoint...geebus

[sly minnow]

ok thats lame
holy sweep is lightning damage

[pliant hamlet]

yeah welcome to looking at month 4 builds in league lol

[sly minnow]

thought I could use it on chieftain if it were fire

[opal ingot]

I welcome 100% mom on the Keystone itself

[carmine notch]

no, you will get the bonuses for the charges

[zealous plank]

I was trying to find out specifically why someone would run a "generate x charge every 15s" searing implicit on a chest with that combination, might just be a mistake then. Ty for every response

[limpid prairie]

That's kinda an achievement tbh
They were so OP after buff

[worthy cave]

No I mean like...what the F are the chances you even find that base within the first week even?

[cobalt blade]

link the build

there could be actual reasons like an immortal call setup

[pliant hamlet]

me? 0%, I hate blight lol

[worthy cave]

I mean on trade

[carmine notch]

this is probably left over from before they got ralakesh

[worthy cave]

like it'd be nice if you could somehow force a 2nd anoint onto a neck

[pliant hamlet]

probably also 0%, you probably just use a budget focused amulet

[worthy cave]

but instead they just drop randomly

[gritty epoch]

Brutal charge etc so someone just quit league and sold it with said implicit and guy bought it cheap or something

[final owl]

I nearly always forget a thing or two when transitioning to later versions of builds :I

[full kraken]

How does this even have a second annoint

[cobalt blade]

blight ravaged rare drop

[limpid prairie]

To use them for some ability maybe immortal call? The chest mod for endurance charges is used with charge duration to get charges early
So idk why they would run it

[pliant hamlet]

ravaged blight

[worthy cave]

it's a dual wield build

[gritty epoch]

Blight drops

[full kraken]

aaaaah

[worthy cave]

as the mountain + dark arts is amazing

20 regular block 8 spell block and even more

[pliant hamlet]

I think PF is fine as a day 1 build but

I think PF really shines when you have 200-300d invested

[worthy cave]

O

I'd juist l;ike

[potent bramble]

technically you can always use Strangegrasp and have a handful of 'em. But it's probably not usually worth it over a good rare

[wintry lily]

what the fuck is bro yapping about

[worthy cave]

I'd just like more options beyond "poison or kick rocks"

[gritty epoch]

Bot what is PF

[cobalt blade]

So you start it on day 1 and farm 200div by day 4

[worthy cave]

because three of her nodes are giga underwhelming

[pliant hamlet]

PF is a lot stronger when you get progenesis

[wintry lily]

so does every build

[gritty epoch]

Purifying flame?

[pliant hamlet]

Nobody uses it as well as well as Pathfinder

[worthy cave]

I mean "ascendancy that uses the unique flask effect belkt does unique flasks good" is...kind of like saying water is wet, ya know?

[wintry lily]

and? Your claim is that PF only shines after 200-300 div for a flask that isnt mandatory for an ascendancy to function

[dreamy crane]

does anyone know the overlay that empryean uses? the one that can price check mods and stuff

[cobalt blade]

Awakened poe trade

[pliant hamlet]

I'm just saying it scales incredibly well, I didn't say it was dog shit without 300d

[worthy cave]

like...it'd just be nice if Pathfinder had a functional elemental damage route

because master distiller is supposed to be that

"Hey, you can play elemental builds on this ascendancy"

It just...completely fails at being that

[dreamy crane]

ty bro

[cobalt blade]

the route for that is going nameless ring flasks disabled so you can still consume charges

people did try it this league dunno how playable it was

[worthy cave]

Not very.

[wintry lily]

PF shines with just magic flasks and what not, not 200 - 300 div

[limpid prairie]

That's cool!

PF shines when you are a bit tired of dying to DoT

[opal ingot]

Me and 50% of the poe league doing baby belt + nameless ascendancy

[cobalt blade]

^^ur underestimating how good perma flasks are first week for defence/offence

[cobalt blade]

so true

[wintry lily]

??

Ive been playing pathfinder for like 3 years now

straight up

[cobalt blade]

towards iks

:p

[opal ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/buzzlight-year-gif-23473774

[cobalt blade]

and ilya

[final owl]

who wants to put money on baby belt being so easy to get 50% of players are using it

[gritty epoch]

PF are for ppl who can't afford mageblood /s

[worthy cave]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepers?class=Pathfinder&secondascendancy=Nameless+Bloodline&keypassives=The+Unseen+Hand

[pliant hamlet]

??? I've been arguing with Ilya that PF is a very strong build defensively

[final owl]

cos.. I wouldn't take that bet.

[pliant hamlet]

From day 1 up, and it scales incredibly well with money

[worthy cave]

there's nameless bloodline PFs

[finite quail]

shaper of flames makes me go from 21k phys max to 34k phys max nut

[pliant hamlet]

Idk how I'm being lumped into calling it bad lol

[cobalt blade]

I mean you did say it really shines with 200d but it shines without that

lol

[cobalt blade]

so true

[limpid prairie]

Blight bell will be cool if it's as rare as a simplex something

[pliant hamlet]

It's the best user of Progenesis. Progenesis + tides is such an insane PF Core, it has a massive power spike

Idk why this is controversal lol

[worthy cave]

It isn't.

[steady elk]

Shieeet sounds fun. Why were they removed?

[worthy cave]

It's the part that PF has turbo-limited options b/c three of her ascendancy nodes are junk

[cobalt blade]

ye but its also one of the best ascends without that

[worthy cave]

sure, b/c bouncy is a great starter

so you take surgeon/poison nodes and you're happy

[limpid prairie]

A bunch of their currency interacted with the atlas so they decided to remove instead

I think?

[cobalt blade]

its 2 that are junk one thats waiting for them to accidentally print something broken on a magic flask :3

[wintry lily]

eh ive league started poison bv before

[cobalt blade]

like readding reduced dmg taken flasks

[pliant hamlet]

Eh, I think there's a reason we haven't seen many event top 3s from PF. Like I do think it's good, but I don't think it's competeing for best

[potent bramble]

The given answer was that they don't match the look or quality that GGG wants for the game/holds themselves to. They're getting a rework and are expected to return at some point, based on the Q&A with ZiggyD

[wintry lily]

pconc is just mildly comfier to begin with

i'd have no qualms going back to poison bv

[pliant hamlet]

It's hard to compete with slayer/zerker

[cobalt blade]

because you need to kill uber for tides in an ssf scenario

[slow sonnet]

I honestly agree with the reasoning

They were kinda ugly

[cobalt blade]

but if your not in a race thats reasonable to do

[pliant hamlet]

I'm a ssf / gsf player, sooo

[hexed mountain]

uber shaper is pretty safe tbh

[potent bramble]

Though admittedly they were also not at all scale-able. They weren't affected by quant, pack size, etc. Area level techincally affected them but only insofar as what they could drop, but by the time they could spawn the whole drop pool was open. So they had crap-tastic loot rates that went to 'mostly bad' if you were fully invested into them. On the upside, it was really really difficult to die to them, so it was a safe farm for anyone who was super weak for whatever reason

[slow sonnet]

Uber shaper if you know how to deal with balls

[cobalt blade]

Ay but your not gonna waste time killing it 3 or 4 times for the belt in a race

[pliant hamlet]

T17s were more the problem

[cobalt blade]

especially farming 20 frags

Or well 16 now

[final owl]

I'm fine with harbies leaving so they can come back as a better mechanic tbh.

[hexed mountain]

pf do get flasks to help with that and high ms to not have to dash

[worthy cave]

so basically, your ascendancy is locked behind two uber drops

[limpid prairie]

I hope they actually make them simple monster killing and not pull a breach on them

[pliant hamlet]

Eh, Even w/o it I still say it's like an a-tier ascendency

[slow sonnet]

Def, the point is as long as you can handle balls you'll do fine

[hexed mountain]

lowkey the change to weapon resist a while back made it much easier to roll pf early/mid without needing pneumatics

[slow sonnet]

Other Ubers not so much

[hexed mountain]

its become quite easy to make very good mamba swords

they get outscaled by pneumatics but you still reach very nice dps before that

[manic gust]

my poe bricked itself but only on one character idk why lmaoo. if i open my stash on one character my game stutter XD

[slow sonnet]

It do be like that sometimes

[gritty epoch]

Who does Volatile Vaal Orb do??

[hexed mountain]

since now chaos damage T1 is the only reforge chaos that can roll

[worthy cave]

so you just spam reforge chaos until...

[potent bramble]

I wonder if we'll see Harbingers and Djinns merge in some capacity, if Mirage goes core. Like sometimes you'll find a Djinn that you have to free, other times you'll find a Djinn (Harbinger) that you have to fight

[worthy cave]

you get some other t1 damage?

[cobalt blade]

makes your item spawn volatiles on hit

[opal ingot]

Why only t1? Does harvest reforge have an ilvl cutoff?

[nocturne maple]

chaos dmg only has 1 tier

[pliant hamlet]

chaos dmg only has t1

[hexed mountain]

you flat phys essence until high % phys then lock reforge

[opal ingot]

HUH

[hexed mountain]

and or you recomb

[opal ingot]

That's wild

[hexed mountain]

like i did

i did just recomb T1 phys T1 flat phys from gambled swords

[final owl]

anything is possible I suppose. I mean i think it'd be cool if they came back more or less conceptually the same but just able to be affected by quant / pack size / whatever to make them a fun option for juicing

[hexed mountain]

then lock reforge chaos and boom triple T1 prefixes

[worthy cave]

or maybe just buy some weirdo fractured high % phys item

[hexed mountain]

"buy" we talking ssf

[worthy cave]

derp

[hexed mountain]

if i was trade i would obviously just get pneumatics

and buy essences

[cobalt blade]

In trade you just get heist dagger

[potent bramble]

Yee. I was thinking more in the art/encounter style so they felt more grounded in the 'reality' of the game rather than the kinda abstract connection they had before

[cobalt blade]

way better dmg

[hexed mountain]

lowkey the T1 phys T1 % phys T1 chaos flat needs pretty decent pneumatics to be beat tho

[slow sonnet]

Their issue is that they were OLD

Same issue as old beyond and breach, it was just reskins

[cobalt blade]

I think not because it enables running flat dmg on items

[fallow escarp]

How do non RF chieftains scale damage in the early game? Thinking of using the new shield skill with enmity later but not sure what’s decent for campaign/beginning maps

[gritty epoch]

Hear me out, 8 x cast on ward break + ball lightnings, storm secrets and 5% to restore ward

[hexed mountain]

yeah but legion sword have beefy flat damage and accuracy

[cobalt blade]

eeeh

I guess if you need the accuracy

but i dont see that as being hard to solve at ranger lol

[cobalt blade]

by playing slams

[hexed mountain]

thats pretty high flat

[cobalt blade]

ig thats not too bad

atk speed dif ?

[onyx adder]

Legion sword ew

[hexed mountain]

1.2 AS

[onyx adder]

What are we doing

Blade trap or some shit

[hexed mountain]

pre-pneumatic weapons

[cobalt blade]

yeah thats gonna feel alot worse than pneumatics

[potent bramble]

That too, though even if that wasn't an issue I still think they'd feel a bit disconnected, overall. Like they're clearly not on the same power level as the Pinnacle bosses, but there's no real explanation of where they come from as opposed to the Breach and Beyond enemies. All you get is that one unique map and that doesn't really explain anything. They're fun, they're just abstract

[onyx adder]

Use a corsair pls

[cobalt blade]

Esp post mamba -20% atk speed

[hexed mountain]

corsair for mamba kek

i'm not losing 20% damage for QoL

[onyx adder]

Its not 20% the flat chaos is constant

Its more like 10-15%

[potent bramble]

The rest of the leagues, at least in my experience, have been connected to either the 'real' world (where the Exile is), or the sort of parallel/alt dimension for Breach/Beyond. Harbs just kinda poof in/out of existence

[hexed mountain]

corsair got a low end of 24 phys

[onyx adder]

If ur als using added chaos gem because its early the difference isnt much at all

[hexed mountain]

there's a reason all mambas with sword use legion

[onyx adder]

Yea because the pob numbers are better

The only time i ever use slow bases is when its a unique i cannot avoid or if my skill totally bypasses aspd, like its a trap or some shit

[slow sonnet]

True, but being mysterious was also their gimmick

[hexed mountain]

1.2 is not a slow base its average

[onyx adder]

I wont use karui chopper for bleed either

1.2 is the slowest 1h sword base

U actually cannot be slower on a 1h unless i think theres some crappy mace base thats 1.1 or some bullshit

Or 1.15

[hexed mountain]

its 1.15

but in terms of weapons

the average is around 1.25

and you're mamba

i'd rather have a slower base than low roll poisons on bosses for 1/4 of damage

[onyx adder]

If u rly need dps ur allowed to use something a lil slower i suppose

[hard cliff]

many would say above average

[hexed mountain]

[hard cliff]

[onyx adder]

But u will not catch me dead using the slowest possible base on a double added flat setup

[cobalt blade]

Its 1.1 i think from sceptres which are treated as mace

[hard cliff]

I'm good on League prep can we start early

[onyx adder]

Or u probably will catch me dead because i got crit out of my attack animation

Either or

[hard cliff]

I will not catch you dead my heart could not handle the world without your sunshine in it

[onyx adder]

❤️

[cosmic eagle]

how do you open the atlas file again?

[stray sedge]

I personally don't know, I've always waited for a site like poeplanner to update

[wintry lily]

i just wait for pob

no pob update no builds to look

[hexed mountain]

might have to change pathing on my guardian plan

if the 40% acc 15% aoe node is below start

i gues gravepact is next to it

[cobalt blade]

its just a file you can read in a text editor

pita to read like that but readable ctrl f for whatever you wanna see

[nocturne maple]

totally a sane idea right?

[cobalt blade]

why are you dual wielding white wind

[hard cliff]

Can I do early betrayal by taking the new node and only clicking kill on everyone?

[wintry lily]

he did ask if it was a "totally sane idea"

so.

[cobalt blade]

lol

[nocturne maple]

white winds have decent flat dmg

and nobody uses them

[wintry lily]

we just ignoring these then now huh

[cobalt blade]

have u considered hyaons lightning volkuurs

[wintry lily]

i mean day 1 ig its alright

[nocturne maple]

and feel the pain of low rolling the dmg range?

probably not

[cobalt blade]

Or sanguis if its cheap enough

[cobalt blade]

D:

[wintry lily]

just gamble EVEN HARDER

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-gambling-gif-3937562841362806777

[nocturne maple]

I already pobbed an ephemeral edge mamba build last league, and let me tell ya

yeah...

[surreal mulch]

just add lucky damage to the build,ez clap

[wintry lily]

just lucky dmg it 4hed

[cobalt blade]

Doesnt work for poison

[surreal mulch]

that's what I'm saying

[nocturne maple]

hell yeah

[wintry lily]

just get lucky enough irl and hope ggg has a bug in the code that lets lucky work on dot

[nocturne maple]

lucky dmg for the win

[wintry lily]

[cosmic eagle]

i thought they changed the scarabs so much i was wondering why .json files got released first before the full list of scarabs changes

[hexed mountain]

actually not bad

[cosmic eagle]

wtf is flammable burrows

[hexed mountain]

the things you stepped on to remove all walls around

[short prairie]

You light them groundhogs on fire so they start burrowing

They have fur and fat, perfectly flammable

Fur acts like a wig and fat is like wax

[surreal mulch]

necro summoner with offerings has good clear speed right?

[hexed mountain]

depends on minion i guess

[surreal mulch]

i could just go mjolner for the third time in a row but I never done any serious witch run

so

[cosmic eagle]

https://giphy.com/gifs/jukeboxsaints-dGTofP3XvOSmfkkueE

[surreal mulch]

you need to dessicate them first. thankfully they just added a unique just for that purpose

[cosmic eagle]

hivemaxxing is the way

[hexed mountain]

eh.. CoC level 1 is pretty close to CoC level 20 same CD , no cdr per level , just 19% less damage rather than 10%

pretty close to an actual 7L

[hard cliff]

lock in

[hard cliff]

damn that's crazy

[split maple]

Buncha Phrecia bugfixes huh

[hard cliff]

remember you also lose quality (?)

[hexed mountain]

yeah but quality is bad

20% crit chance

[hard cliff]

I just mean In general on the imbue

this is make so many silly gems

[cosmic eagle]

https://poedb.tw/us/atlas-skill-tree/

poedb got the tree going if any1 is interested

[hexed mountain]

you do lose level 21 on the gem supported but on CoC you can imbue CoC on cyclone or lancing steel so losing level 21 is irrelevant

[hard cliff]

imagine free lifetap

[hexed mountain]

so you get the imbue AND the level 21 spells

[hard cliff]

I'm using vaal abso

I dunt get to play

[hexed mountain]

F

[crystal talon]

How would the spell be supported by coc

[opaque sphinx]

is keeper officially over now and stuff in std?

[hexed mountain]

they said the entire link is affected by the imbued

[crystal talon]

Oh neato

[opaque sphinx]

nice im make wi in meantime

[hexed mountain]

oh damn , feeding frenzy grants agressive and feeding frenzy doesnt change with level , could be good on some minions that really need agressive

you would lose +1 from 21 tho

[mental violet]

templar has attack mastery right at the start now for + 1 strike i really wanna try strike gaurdian

[white radish]

Stupid question - what was the maximum number of points on the unique branch of the genesis tree? It used to be on the wiki, but I can't find it now.

[cosmic eagle]

the kirac circle is now a small scarab circle big W for points

[hard cliff]

will imbue make this good?

[cosmic eagle]

so stingy just bring the nodes back ggg

[hexed mountain]

idk you probably want to invest in sacrifice if you build around losing 20% current life per cast

sacred wisp is 40% more damage on level 1 btw , wand league LOGIN

[hard cliff]

Holy crap

[hexed mountain]

glad they help struggling archetypes

[surreal musk]

void manip is -100% on lv 1

[hexed mountain]

lots of really good gems level 1

i could even see stuff like bonechill on hit cold builds to get 30% bonechill and 5% more cold

[surreal mulch]

the most obvious candidate is codt

if it's even in the pool idk

[hexed mountain]

codt?

[surreal mulch]

cast on damage taken

[hexed mountain]

when* but it litteraly doesnt work

[split maple]

Lvl1 is kinda useless

[hexed mountain]

because you can only imbue level 20 gems

so it doesnt work

[split maple]

It has level limit of skill it can support

[surreal mulch]

oh right I frogot about the level thingy

[hexed mountain]

at least it does nothing and doesnt screw the gem could be worse

[sterile crescent]

@karmic gust I see you have updated your mamba pob, you put it on glove, but how do you slot 4 supports?

[hexed mountain]

imbue?

there's a level 1 sup?

[surreal mulch]

oh yeah can you do both imbue and normal support?

[sterile crescent]

Hmm, might be, I haven't opened the pob in app

[split maple]

Fortify is lvl1 yea

[sterile crescent]

But imbue is total random right? So it's gonna be a pain to imbue I guess

[hexed mountain]

yes

[surreal mulch]

imagine double trinity

[hexed mountain]

except for curses and marks since there's very little supports

you can't stack the same sup

[grave vine]

Opnions ons Holy hammers inquis?

[sterile crescent]

Imbue mamba, get cruelty support

[blazing nymph]

You can't use the same support twice

[surreal mulch]

fuk

[hexed mountain]

will make thhe soul eater ring setup easier at least

[blazing nymph]

Why inquis?

[hexed mountain]

good little hextouch temporal chain

[formal ridge]

I know answer is probably no but can Rain of arrows be scaled into t16s/ 4 voidstones? is such a cool skill

[hexed mountain]

could do inquis with holy hammer + frozen legion

rain of arrow is 3 overlap expected right?

[surreal mulch]

maybe manaforged arrows?

[hexed mountain]

180% DE skill on pinnacles sound complicated

[grave vine]

Wanna be temp for tree pos for power charges and thr ignore eleres on crit and the regen is ok 🤷‍♂️ havent thought this through completely, but i wanna go temp

[pulsar vault]

If you want infinite money yes

[cosmic eagle]

manaman with lavianga tech, imbue arcane cloak hope for less duration support for the indigon to just be up all the time

[surreal mulch]

manaforged arrows should still be compy

[hexed mountain]

its sad we cant imbue level 1 gems

at least we could fish for imbues without leveling 50 gems to 20

[blazing nymph]

Fair enough, makes sense to me. I just wanted to make sure you had a reason beyond assuming holy=templar

[surreal mulch]

in theory

[grave vine]

Lol, if I had that reasoning I go guardian (unless...)

[split maple]

Gonna be fun qualing up 50 gems too

[hexed mountain]

cries in SSF

lets hope GCP is in the doubled ground loot currency group

[cosmic eagle]

surely gcp has the same rarity as flask currency

[thick goblet]

sucks even more if you're using a trans gem

[hexed mountain]

yeah trans gem imbue is a trade thing only

and HF paying 1+ div every try

[lucid gale]

At least there's the level-all button QoL these days 😄

[split maple]

Eh trans red gems should be allright

[pulsar vault]

Hmm it seems there a very few new support gems for phy builds :c (If i take the name)

Wanted to do a Chaos Impale build :(

[split maple]

Good luck to folks wanting to imbue trans grens and blues lol

[sterile crescent]

Why

[split maple]

Way bigger random transfig pool

[sterile crescent]

So I guess lab farmers are going to eat even better this league?

[warm musk]

Can someone help me w my MFA in standard? https://pobb.in/3Zi8_uzql8HL I ramp up too fast

or it's a skill issue on my part

or do I need essence sap

[finite quail]

yes and no

because getting the transfig gem you want is guaranteed now, it'll dilute the transfig gem market

[hard cliff]

this is wild

[split maple]

Well guaranteed once per 10 Merc labs or so

[lucid gale]

You reckon that matters enough for just that specific craft?

[split maple]

And coins will be Massive sink for meta transes

[finite quail]

Oh its one of the special font crafts?

Oh nvm then

[lucid gale]

The Labyrinth craft to transform a non-Transfigured Skill Gem to a Transfigured version now allows you to select the Transfigured version you desire most in cases where multiple Transfigured versions of that gem exist.

[split maple]

It's the transfigure gem to it's version

Once per 10-15 fonts or so from Merc on

[lucid gale]

If you have a cis gem that has two trans alternatives, you get to pick which one rather than 50/50.

[finite quail]

That craft is pretty rare anyways so it won't actually dilute the market as much

[worthy cave]

LMFAO

That terminology LOL

[finite quail]

Not anymore, no

[grave vine]

Last think I thought id see today was a CI tornado Shot Juggernaught with 1b dps

[finite quail]

I thought it did but I had a misunderstanding

[nocturne maple]

we will be merc lab enjoyers

[onyx adder]

We all love merc lab

[split maple]

And like folks who will want endurance charge on stun on their zenith or fork on their kboc will act as Massive Massive gem sink

[onyx adder]

(Dont ask me about merc lab)

[split maple]

Gonna be nice to gift labbers

[thick goblet]

u gotta update your name

[onyx adder]

No i dont

We saw 3 we got like 30 to go

[steady elk]

Makes sense, thanks

[onyx adder]

If more of em are like shockwave imma have a lot of pobbing to do

[cold elbow]

Will the minion limit support get to 50% with +2 (or 3, corrupt)

Surely....

[thick goblet]

i doubt it

[finite quail]

eh

[cold elbow]

Enhance gets 8% per level...

And its linear...

[blazing nymph]

We learned their names, have you considered leaping to wild conclusions and basing your starter on them? You know, like normal people do

[full kraken]

Im gonna guess the minion support scales linear but its only like +4%/level or something

[onyx adder]

I only base my starter on concrete gems

[hard cliff]

always

[onyx adder]

Like toads

[coral summit]

considering what to run alongside giga unstable breach farming

[split maple]

Oh rite item filter info landed too

[cold elbow]

4% would be fine, albeit annoying

[onyx adder]

We are toaderbot nation

[coral summit]

altars vs destructive play

[full kraken]

Itd make sense to me if the gem starts at 30%, so its 38% at level 3

[coral summit]

oh actually, speaking of

do we know if influencing scarab of interference (adds a random guardian to final map boss) also counts as a final map boss

for the purpose of maven drops or w/e

[cosmic eagle]

new fragment item from the filter, that might be for the mirage boss

the hunt for the mirror tier belt will be a good one

[cold elbow]

It could, if it has the line like scarab of pandemonium

That adds map bosses to shrines

[blazing nymph]

For sure, the name matches maraketh themed stuff from poe2

[coral summit]

idk if it does, it's described to add a guardian boss that's guaranteed to drop its type of map

i've baited myself into playing slam ignite elementalist for like the 5th league in a row

doesnt even need overexertion so it wasnt nerfed

(autoexert was a slight mana reservation nerf but that's fine)

[worthy cave]

Is slamamentalist really that good?

Seems like it should be an absolute junk build

[coral summit]

good relative to meta builds, no

but it's really really fun.

[worthy cave]

oh

[coral summit]

and you can clear everything short of delve and valdos with it

without a problem

[full kraken]

witch with 2H sword is the best attack/running animation in the game tho

[coral summit]

can get it to dot cap ubers and deli

if you're doing lifestack grey wind

[full kraken]

I should think of a new build to consider trying as witch with 2H sword

[coral summit]

and even on league start you get like

rebuke of the vaal+covenant and southbound for flat dmg

and that gets u with a tincture to like 5mil ignite

[worthy cave]

BTW what are we thinking about with regard to starting kingsmarch as a farm?

[surreal mulch]

why are there no scion builds

[coral summit]

because scion is dogshit as a league starter

[surreal mulch]

I meant like in general not just starter

[full kraken]

Herald stacker 2H sword witch build?

[split maple]

There are?

Armorstacker, relic and aurabot

[coral summit]

scion just doesnt have many things she's genuinely better for

than anything else

[surreal mulch]

I mean yeah there are I just haven't seen them in so long. like rathpith life stacker

[worthy cave]

btw guys question abotu Aul

[coral summit]

even rathpith lifestack is better on other classes most of the time

[worthy cave]

is it worth trying to build around trying to double up on the auras

[surreal mulch]

I was really hoping the new ascendancy would enable something cool

[worthy cave]

I.E. set min = max on frenzies or endurance?

[coral summit]

50% inc effect on two auras is not worth 2 ascendancy points

the end