1┃general

[coral summit]

flipping stuff goes entirely outside said above statement

because it's not generating items directly

[silent leaf]

Me playing SSF knowing people care about Divs/H

[coral summit]

it's a way of your character getting stronger to push harder content, but it's not one that most ppl do

[cobalt blade]

are you though your constantly interacting with a predatory mobile game system that preys on hourly dopamine

[solemn relic]

I don’t even use the boats or mappers much at all

[onyx adder]

I mean i skip kingsmarch in ssf because its garbage unless i need to run it for tattoos/runegrafts

[coral summit]

and its a very valid statement to say that GGG designed kingsmarch with the expectation that the majority of players will still interact with it, because they aren't sitting in their hideout flipping for profit or trying to recombo for money

[onyx adder]

But in trade theres a relative efficiency problem

[silent leaf]

I FUCKING NEED THE RUNEGRAFTS RAAAH

[solemn relic]

I’ll send a boat every few days and almost never use mappers

[coral summit]

and balanced everything else around it

[silent leaf]

Runegraft of warp I need like cocaine

[onyx adder]

In that if im not fucking about with boats and mappers then im slower to buy the items i want/need

[silent leaf]

But it's giga fucking hard to sustain gold

[onyx adder]

Which has cascading effects in trade

[karmic gust]

sad

[onyx adder]

U would think

[silent leaf]

I kinda wish that's true

So I can easily get Runegrafts

[onyx adder]

Ur problem is we all missed the most important part of kingsmarch

[silent leaf]

And not play CoC

[cobalt blade]

fair enough but you have some heavy opinions for not interacting w/ it

[onyx adder]

Which is some poor artist spent 1000 hours building assets for it

And ggg cant afford to waste the art

[cobalt blade]

isnt it just poe2 assets

[silent leaf]

It is yea

[dusty mesa]

famous last words

[karmic gust]

hey they were happy with wasting all the crucible stuff

[onyx adder]

See above tho lul

[silent leaf]

Just diff shaders im assuming since diff game but same engine?

[karmic gust]

or synth stuff

[coral summit]

i meeean, they had all the synth/other scourge assets that are just gone nw

now*

[karmic gust]

or uuh

kalndra stuff

[onyx adder]

They repurposed all the crucible shit tho

[coral summit]

GGG makes plenty of assets that never return

[onyx adder]

For, ironically, kingsmarch

And all the scourge shit

For kingsmarch

[karmic gust]

i guess technically they als added synth maps

[solemn relic]

Well yeah, I love the idea and mechanic, and I’d hate to lose it just because some ppl are forcing themselves to use it even tho it doesn’t make their experience bettered

[onyx adder]

Personally i just want loot in my killing monsters game to come from killing monsters

Not from shitty mobile game dailies

[karmic gust]

see they could've just put faustus there and you would need to talk to all kingsmarch people

[cobalt blade]

i mean hey i think the same with corpse crafting but i also recognize it shouldnt be there if 90% of the playerbase dislike it

[karmic gust]

about town going broke

[onyx adder]

The efficiency arguments are secondary to that

[cobalt blade]

(or however much didnt like corpses)

[karmic gust]

like in heist

really?

[solemn relic]

Again, I 1000% agree that overall ground loot needs a buff

[karmic gust]

smh

[cobalt blade]

like the rest of the game is balanced under the assumption your doing kingsmarch as its passive loot

[onyx adder]

I didnt say that

[karmic gust]

anyway when some dum exile tries to run town

it goes bankrupt

so bye kingsmarch

[onyx adder]

So i probably dont agree with u

[karmic gust]

ez in lore explanation

[onyx adder]

I dont need more loot

[cobalt blade]

expedition rework where kingsmarch is removed and we fight corrupted rog/gwennen etc

after bankrupting them

[lean urchin]

we put on a mask and raid kingsmarch

[karmic gust]

just merge heist and kingsmarch

now we are raiding other ppls towns

like in uh

all those online facebook games and shit

[peak heron]

STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS

[mental violet]

alright all the ground loot videos have been made plz mark the evidence is there for the nerfs responsible # revert

[karmic gust]

hey they already got ideas from mobile games now its time fo peak enternainment facebook games

[onyx adder]

Fuck yea

Click like on friend list army get 1c

[sick ocean]

I legit would like to raid my guidmate's hideouts.

[onyx adder]

In before some ppl are like WELL ITS OPTIONAL IF U DONT ENJOY IT JUST DONT CLICK LIKE

[hard cliff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384559639464771595/1474947207420448933/image.png?ex=699bb321&is=699a61a1&hm=c5b9e8af687f92094a587016901ffaf16723c42bee3b0f09e8643f8b14ce0337&

Me looking at a build using a skill I actually wanna play

[sick ocean]

I clicked like, where is my 1c?

[karmic gust]

reddit: how i got my first mageblood by sitting in a1 and adding everyone as friend

[solemn relic]

exactly

[hard cliff]

Reddit: ground loot was over rated I love breach tree for all my builds

[cobalt blade]

even reddit recognises how bad ground loot is without the bandaids

[hard cliff]

Reddit doesn't exist

wake up

[karmic gust]

grok is this true

[onyx adder]

Eh its all relative, its certainly true that theres too many interlocking systems to enhance loot atm and if u dont participate in all of em u cant compete with people that do

[solemn relic]

I’m gonna have nightmares tonight about ggg erasing kingsmarch cuz some discord users said it was bad for the game

[karmic gust]

the person who made poe said its bad for the game how about that

[hard cliff]

GGG doesn't listen to people on here if they did the game would be doing triple fortnite numbers

[cobalt blade]

well no loot is just bad without loot tiles or stacking those bandaids

[onyx adder]

Just bad is all relative tho

Its only bad because u know what it can be with stacking mechanics

[errant hatch]

Hi. I'm stupid. I had "A" set to show a target corpse for me to use Raise Spectre on. Now nothing happens. What'd I do?

[hard cliff]

GGG should invent offline Async trade where the game simulates other players for you so the league will always be populated

[lean urchin]

the "hitboxes" can be really janky, try shaking your mouse

[onyx adder]

Fundamentally chris nailed it years ago when he said the fun bit of gearing was getting an item ur friends dont have

Thats almost purely relative

[errant hatch]

I'm getting nothing. Its not bringing up ANY corpses.

[hard cliff]

Dude that's the dream

[onyx adder]

Yea

[lean urchin]

do oyu have desecrate or unearth socketed?

[karmic gust]

well they tried to make base loot a bit more exciting with altars then nerfed the fuck out of them as well

[errant hatch]

I have desecrate socketed, yea. that's how i was summoning them before.

[cobalt blade]

if you compare alch n go pre kalandra to post kalandra its basically not worth doing any league mechanics and you will maybe drop 5-10 chaos worth of things vs actually getting loot pre kalandra

[karmic gust]

old red altars were so nice you just got spammed with good raw currency drops

[cobalt blade]

and it being worth running random breaches or w/e that spawned back then

[lean urchin]

is it triggered? its sound weird that the A-key should just stop working

[errant hatch]

it was on Acranist Brand, but I yanked that gem into my inv.

[onyx adder]

Pre kalandra was the same it just needed different crutches and ppl often engaged with those crutches without understanding them

[cobalt blade]

(what i would personally consider baseline loot+i think its just bad for the game to be so heavily reliant on you doing all scarabs of 1 type of mechanic)

[onyx adder]

Like old beyond

[errant hatch]

Even when I kill mobs, I can't highlight the corpse.

I was able to earlier.

[onyx adder]

So it was randomly better

[lean urchin]

link profile in like #1┃endgame-help

[spice pecan]

ironically, red altars n go was a strat this league

[cobalt blade]

to an extent yes but now your loot just always sucks without engaging with them and its worse than it was before with you using them

[karmic gust]

very sad league

[spice pecan]

even sadder when multiple content creators put time into making videos about the profit of scarab vendoring rather than like, you know, actual strats

[errant hatch]

Ahhhh, Raise Spectre wasn't on my bar.

like I said, stupid

[lean urchin]

nah. jank

[karmic gust]

yea hearing what ppl were doing for currency in keepers was very sad in general :d

[onyx adder]

Anyway kingsmarch can go fuck iself but thats a secondary issue

[karmic gust]

scarab farming like itsleague start as well

[spice pecan]

like scarab vendoring is decent money but it's just sad that we're reduced to fucking vendoring scarabs as a somewhat meta strat

[solemn relic]

y’all are so cynical and negative 😭

[spice pecan]

farming scarabs, to vendor, to then sell to someone else, who will vendor, and then sell to someone else

[solemn relic]

just sayin

[onyx adder]

For me the real problem is that we havent had a real endgame update in something like four years

[cobalt blade]

scarab vendoring and its all just going to different people willing to vendor x scarab

[spice pecan]

do you think there's a reason for that

[karmic gust]

you certainly contributed a lot to this discussion

[cobalt blade]

because iwant the game to be more fun and its fun to drop screens of loot

[karmic gust]

are the new scarabs older than that?

[cobalt blade]

also fun to have difficult rewarding content like titanic exiles or titanic blight

[karmic gust]

also t16.5s were kinda endgame update

before they decided to well make them useless i guess

[strong totem]

I still can't believe we had a one year league

[cobalt blade]

current scarab system is 2024

necropolis league was the rework for em iirc

[spice pecan]

more multipliers on 16.5s/17s kinda makes them glorified loot tiles i guess

[karmic gust]

like idk i think there was quite a lot of impactful changes they just always walk them back

[onyx adder]

Imo these are just tweaks

Im more looking for a tableflip

[cobalt blade]

kalandra level tableflip but in the opposite direction

[surreal musk]

poe2 will fix it

[cobalt blade]

suddenly 10x loot bonuses per stacking mechanic

[onyx adder]

It doesnt have to be more loot just something different

[surreal musk]

more loot would be something different

[strong totem]

Rare and enhanced map mods

[surreal musk]

rolling maps for 30min

[strong totem]

That's good. How it should be

[onyx adder]

I mean if more loot is applied in a way that changes the way i think about farming then sure im in

Could be less loot too as long as its interesting

[cobalt blade]

every map now has a chance to spawn possessed feared/elderslayers etc

They dont drop anything but its a fun fight

[onyx adder]

Unfortunately poe has the option of just skipping the map

If u couldnt do that i would genuinely be in for it

[cobalt blade]

lmao

low key thats why i like valdos forced to fight them

[strong totem]

I'd like a better way to influence map shape. Give me a sketch pad on the map device

[cobalt blade]

+in general more fun than all the current farming strats scarab farming is fucking despair

[onyx adder]

If scarabs could stack to like

1000

I would be much more ok with interacting with them

[lean urchin]

why?

[onyx adder]

Honestly stack sizes should just be larger in poe in general

[onyx adder]

The number of times in my life ive opened a map and realized i forgot to refresh 1 type of scarab

Or all of em

[lean urchin]

i see. i play too slow for that to happend

[onyx adder]

Just let me set and forget for an entire league please

Its just busywork

Kind of like kingsmarch

[strong totem]

Rich man eating good

[lean urchin]

the argument against it is like "weight"

[strong totem]

1000 good scarabs is gonna cost ya

[cobalt blade]

time to hold half a mirror of scarabs in your map device

[onyx adder]

Forgetting the scarab that makes ur strat work is actual PTSD inducing

[cobalt blade]

or more honestly

[onyx adder]

So its a tradeoff

[leaden gust]

i want a crafting tab. Put all the maps im gonna roll into it, apply X to all items in tab.

dont care if its $30

[tawdry olive]

balancing this game must be a nightmare tbh, everything we have now is likely some response or attempt at making the community happy
like maybe ground loot got to this state in part because they were trying to please the people complaining that mirror bow blasters were easily printing while they couldn't. Tiles don't need you to have 360 screenclear

[karmic gust]

what about atlas keystone that changes your portals to none and make all monsters in map respawn with more and more toughness

that would be fun

[strong totem]

You know what I did in phrecia ssfhc? I farmed the ulti boss scarab, then forgot to put a regular ulti scarab in with...

[leaden gust]

also id like to remove allt he "oh go do 115 maps with the right rarity and corruption to get atlas points" so tedious

[surreal musk]

nah atlas progression is fun

unique map completion removal i can get behind

[leaden gust]

not once in my life have i enjoyed atlas progression

[onyx adder]

We did that it was the uh

[leaden gust]

but at least its not as boring as the torchlight infinite one

[onyx adder]

Which one gave more loot but made monsters do more damage

The eater keystone

[tawdry olive]

there were also the people who were like "fuck league mechanics i just want to blast" so they gave them back to basics, and we all know what happened to that one

[hexed mountain]

a complete overhaul of the atlas passive would surely make a league feel very nice

[onyx adder]

GGG killed it because it felt bad and felt mandatory

Kind of like some towns i could name

[karmic gust]

well with 1 portal the loot is also limited

[hexed mountain]

there was that super cool keystone , back to basics was it?

[karmic gust]

wandering/grand design were also nice

idk why they got rid of those

[cobalt blade]

that wasnt a thing

[shell smelt]

I'm planning on attempt to complete all the new league challenges any advice

[hexed mountain]

ah yes wandering path was fun too

[lean urchin]

we dont know what the challenges are, or what mirage does

[karmic gust]

it was definitely a thing, not in those exact words maybe

[cobalt blade]

closest thing is b2b's

but its not an eldritch keystone and was mod effect not more damage directly

[karmic gust]

no, old wrath of the cosmos

[cobalt blade]

oh i didnt even consider that as a more loot thing

[tawdry olive]

i guess i may be weird but i think the acts up to atlas completion is usually the most fun i have for a character,
because power comes quick and steady just by progressing, you're actually expected to pick upgrades from the ground, etc. Beyond that in endgame it's actually a very different progression loop

that is fun in its own way dont get me wrong

[cobalt blade]

like thats barely any loot

[karmic gust]

it was a lot of loot

basically everyone had to run it thats what wtd was saying

[cobalt blade]

yes but it just devalued embers and you rarely doubled eldritch chaos

[leaden gust]

I hate leveling through acts. like its so boring. Ive done it 10241204 times

[onyx adder]

Sure was

[tawdry olive]

i feel like part of the problem is there's a certain set of leveling skills that are just optimal, such that you cant really keep things fresh for yourself while still playing for speed

nobody likes rolling magma for example

[onyx adder]

U were heavily incentivized to run wrath of cosmos at that time since the eldritchs were an important part of ur income

[onyx adder]

Thats part of it for sure, although leveling through campaign is so static that if u only change skills ppl will re-optimize it in 4 seconds again

My pitch is for campaign to be WAY more random so its harder to optimize

[cobalt blade]

and when it was removed the value of embers/eldritch c etc went up and your overall currency per map remained the same on average - tho i would accept an argument for it being a massive ssf nerf

[onyx adder]

It wasnt the same pretty much by definition

Less supply

Its the same logic as kingsmarch

[cobalt blade]

yea i dont disagree old wrath was bad for the game i just dont consider it a noticeable amount of more loot lol

outside of explicitly ssf where you struggle to get ichors/embers

[onyx adder]

Noticeable enough that everyone clicked it

And then complained they were dying

[leaden gust]

i really think they should do a pass over on level req on items a well and cap it at say 50-60 somewhere. Its so fucking tedious finishing acts, hitting end game, being in maps, buy some gear you need or have some gear ready and oh you cant use it cause it requires lvl 67 or 84 or whatever

[cobalt blade]

wonder how many were reflect deaths

[onyx adder]

Anyway point being stuff u can click on atlas that makes the same content harder for loot is not a good idea

Unless its got an additional gate on it

Because ppl will just click it and then wonder why their build is too shit to handle it

They do that with t17s as well but at least there the solution to their problem is more obvious

[cobalt blade]

i dont think thats a bad thing there should be strats that require good builds and tree should be a part of it

[onyx adder]

And i dont have to spend an entire league in #1┃general copypasting DO YOU HAVE WRATH OF THE COSMOS CLICKED to every second question

[cobalt blade]

over having no real reason to toss mirrors into building up ur char

[onyx adder]

False dichotomy

[bold scarab]

the problem is most shit is ballanced around either the endgame or specific items which just makes them entirely unviable to level with ... and the ones that are still viable but not meta are drastically worse than the good stuff

[onyx adder]

Some strats should require good builds

[bold scarab]

and some skills

are just like

[onyx adder]

The bit that kills u shouldnt be easily accessible to idiots

Thats my entire argument

[bold scarab]

mechanically and visually direct upgrades of eachother

[cobalt blade]

i mean why not they can learn it kills them and not click it

no reason to hand hold them

[onyx adder]

Ppl dont learn

We see this over and over

They just die and cry for nerfs

Its easier to just hide the scissors from them

[fossil ibex]

People love to hate it because its meta to hate it, instead of just understanding why it's good and being able to practice and capitalize on what makes it good

Pretty sad tbh

[bold scarab]

i do

[fossil ibex]

I do too

[onyx adder]

Fwiw i dont enjoy playing the game with rolling magma

I do so because its faster than not doing so

[cobalt blade]

and they do the same with scarabs or sextants back when those were a thing w/e

[spice pecan]

ive been saying that a shakeup of early game skills would be really nice

[onyx adder]

But if u gave me an option to click pretty much any other skill and not lose time i would

[spice pecan]

like can we replace rolling magma with storm brand or something

[cobalt blade]

like people complain about titanic blight titanic exiles ghosting anything thatrequires a good character lol

[bold scarab]

if you want

usually i think its wintertide tho

[onyx adder]

I mean if ur proposing a written exam before u can access scarab section of frag tab im not gonna oppose u

Lul

[cobalt blade]

that would be funny as fuck

[spice pecan]

no i'm asking for a shakeup on levelling skills

[silent leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-centurion-centurion-cat-cat-army-cat-centurion-army-jovial-merriment-gif-7666711929833421464

[cobalt blade]

but nah im just saying they shouldnt limit tree because dumbasses just take stuff without reading

[spice pecan]

like let's delete rolling magma and replace it with like storm brand or ek or like anything

get rid of sunder for fucking glacial hammer idk

[surreal musk]

it would always be fire ignite unless they changed to pside passive tree

[bold scarab]

no

shakeup is bad

we need MORE things good

[cobalt blade]

like yes take 80% mod effect on a build with items from white maps what do they expect to happen

[bold scarab]

not just a different set of the same ammount of things

[spice pecan]

i don't care either way

[onyx adder]

Yea like i said im in for this but if u only change skills then we just reoptimize in 4 seconds

[cobalt blade]

replace with spark

[fossil ibex]

Deleting options of ways to play the game isn't good either

[onyx adder]

And we only do whatever is most efficient after the change

[cobalt blade]

spark all the way

[spice pecan]

i am very okay with deleting rolling magma from levelling

[onyx adder]

Spark leveling from 1 was so pog

[bold scarab]

replacing 10 OP skills with 10 different OP skills still leaves you with 10 OP skills and 190 shit skills

[onyx adder]

Na deleting stuff is fine if it causes changes to the way ppl think

[spice pecan]

it's literally better than nothing

[onyx adder]

I just dont think this particular deletion would do much

[cobalt blade]

just remove double hitting and suddenly its no longer worth using

[onyx adder]

Gonna add an extra 8 minutes to my gravicius time

Shrug

Prolly more like 3 minutes rolling magma isnt THAT good

[bold scarab]

that is the entire identity of the skill ... you remove that and its just fireball with fake pierce

[cobalt blade]

always actually kinda funny when you see people complaining about magma dealing barely any campaign damage and they arent double hitting or using fire wall

[fossil ibex]

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. How does it help leveling diversity by deleting things? Make a new op thing and everyone flocks to that instead and now everyone using the same shit but a different type of shit, how is that good?

[cobalt blade]

yeah i dont think they should actually do that I was just leading into this :p

[bold scarab]

lol

[onyx adder]

I often tactically skip flamewall its kinda annoying to place

U cant not double hit tho

If u do that ur just playing bad fireball

[cobalt blade]

Yup

[tranquil umbra]

what's a good dot skill to level with

[spice pecan]

because we get new skills to use from early on which can help people change the way they think, and in general it would be nice to not have to play the same two skills for levelling for the 50th time

[bold scarab]

i mean its better than fireball but like not much

[cobalt blade]

rf

[tranquil umbra]

except rf

[spice pecan]

wintertide brand, blight of contagion

[bold scarab]

the fact that were even saying this tho is pretty clear that fireball needs a buff

lel

[onyx adder]

I guarantee anyone doing the thinking while leveling alrdy knows what else is potentially competitive with RM topside

And anybody else is just copying them

[lean urchin]

shout out to my freezing pulse that got no aoe or dmg

[tranquil umbra]

shoutout to frost bomb

[cobalt blade]

would also agree with wtb^ blight bad tho especially contagion one since requires lab running

[onyx adder]

There wont be new thinking if u delete RM

[bold scarab]

and doesnt even freeze anymore because no dmg

[karmic gust]

why dont they make barrage support work for spells anyway, surely would be fine

[onyx adder]

Like again i am totally in for a big shakeup that deletes RM from leveling forever

That would be fucking amazing

[lean urchin]

feels like i just learned waterbending whipping droplets on enemies

[onyx adder]

But just deleting RM does nothing

[cobalt blade]

realistically we would just move back to orb of storms stormblast mine

[bold scarab]

spell echo is the spell version of barrage ... and spell cascade depending on the skill

[karmic gust]

spell echo is spell version of multistrike

[surreal musk]

delete 100% dmg fire mastery + ele prolif being availible in act 1 and maybe other things start being used

[cobalt blade]

its still good if your playing it right just has a bit of fall off where you previously got some wand craft and picks back up ltr iirc

[bold scarab]

or maybe you just killed fire

[onyx adder]

Its pretty mid ngl

[tranquil umbra]

not even just act 1 it's literally available at LEVEL 1

[onyx adder]

I tried

That skill was hardcarried by wand crafts

[bold scarab]

still is

its pretty mid without some flat fire dmg to spells

[cobalt blade]

^you just get a small bit of slow down on act 3?

4?

[onyx adder]

A3 u switch to armabrand cremation anyway

Regardless of if u start rm or anything else

[cobalt blade]

idk its fine only a bit slower than magma but faster than the other skills to get to arma brand yea

[fossil ibex]

Yeah I get what you're saying. I prob dont agree with deleting things, but yeah, bringing in other skills to be low lvl req and accessible early acts to switch things up is good

[bold scarab]

AW and bladeblast still cant be used at all till act 3 even tho you get them in act 1

[cobalt blade]

they can you just need to drop items on the floor and show white weapons on your filter

[bold scarab]

not good enough

and wont help you on bosses

[cobalt blade]

Thats what dropping items bit is for

[bold scarab]

do you have like tripple the inventory space that i dont know about?

[cobalt blade]

if either reached a point the early damage was high enough people would 100% do it lol

[bold scarab]

lol

[cobalt blade]

wdym you just animate 3-4 slot 1 handers

[bold scarab]

idk what to do about bladeblast other than just putting old EK back in its place

but

the solutuon to AW is to replace it with AWoS that doenst need lingering bladews

[karmic gust]

true, might as well grab conversion trap while at it, plenty of enemies around :d

[cobalt blade]

exactly!

[hexed mountain]

don't AW players just use an unlinked BF of trarthus nowadays?

[bold scarab]

AW players dont exist

[cobalt blade]

this is campaign talk

[bold scarab]

also ye campaign talk

[spice pecan]

ranged animate weapon uses bf of trarthus yes

[hexed mountain]

ah yes

didnt see it was campain talk

maybe arcanist brand BF with your curses too to get it in one single button?

[cobalt blade]

if they gave it like 3x base dmg or some shit id 100% see people brute forcing it in a1

[bold scarab]

before you could pick up EK at lvl 2 and AW at lvl 4 ... and altho it was worse than SRS it was still functionable

[cyan tusk]

Is there a class with invisibility? Or not yet

[lean urchin]

would be OP for fishing

[cobalt blade]

wot

[gritty garnet]

there's "stealth" and "phasing"

[cyan tusk]

Elaborate about stealth

[bold scarab]

and bladeblast ALWAYS waited for bladefall anyway so not much changed there kek

[hexed mountain]

as someone who leveled with BF BB a few times : yeah its annoying that base EK doesnt have lingering blades anymore

[cobalt blade]

Reduces monster aggro range basically

But theres barely any sources of stealth

[cyan tusk]

[dusty mesa]

a new leveling experience would be nice

[gritty garnet]

there's like 2 sources and they nerfed it so it can't be permanent

[hexed mountain]

forces you to do purif flame /wave until 28

[dusty mesa]

but also, give me self cast buffs anyway

[bold scarab]

now we just have 2 skills that dont work at all at the time you get them sadge

[cyan tusk]

Is there a class thats similar to the rogue class from 1 yet?

[bold scarab]

or well 2 more skills to add to the pile at least

[cobalt blade]

this is the 1 chat and shadow isnt in 2 yet

[tranquil umbra]

rogue class?

[cobalt blade]

#2┃general

[hexed mountain]

mirage caster support for mirage league , SURELY

[fossil ibex]

Bro is all over the place

[hexed mountain]

they could also just make intensify mechanics be default to self cast

[bold scarab]

could also talk about how almost every perm minion is too squishy at the time you get them

except for golems ig

[lean urchin]

makes sense, you start weak, get more power, get better

like irl

[onyx adder]

Leveling bfbb before u have access to inc aoe gem is literal psychopath behaviour

[cobalt blade]

this would be so much fun

[bold scarab]

but like you try to use a lvl 1 spectre gem at zone lvl 28 or a lvl 1 zombie gem at zone level 2 and they just fall over and die

[lean urchin]

ive been having a raging skull for so long, but i cant make it move or set fire to it

[hexed mountain]

nah

i did it quite a few times and the damage is quite good

also cascade makes it have massive aoe

[bold scarab]

bosses are pretty fat so its mostly a clearing problem

[hexed mountain]

(gets carried by being a phys spell)

slap 4 heralds take herald wheel GG

[bold scarab]

phys spells that have no direct support

[spice pecan]

I really want to figure out how to make EK decent from level 2 tbh

[hexed mountain]

arcane surge faster casting cascade does the job during campain tbh

[bold scarab]

we have so many ele spell ascendancies but not phys ones ... just generic shit like crit

[hexed mountain]

it obliterates a lot of act bosses too

because they're fatties

[bold scarab]

even chaos has a direct support through occultist

[tranquil umbra]

understood, 3 more chaos spell ascendencies

[cobalt blade]

2 +1 phys wands from hillock - path the 3% for 300% phys as extra mastery and be reaaallly lucky

[bold scarab]

lol

[cobalt blade]

but not memeing i think theyd need to add some way to shotgun with it

[haughty bloom]

phys becomes ele so easily tho that phys kinda is ele

[cobalt blade]

its base is just questionable

[bold scarab]

but i wanna play pure phys tho

[haughty bloom]

and phys becomes chaos so easily that phys is basically chaos

[hexed mountain]

tbh the only thing that makes EK not F tier is that arc exists

and needs its F tier for itself

[cobalt blade]

its a fine ignite skill later on

gloomfang ek mapper

just real bad in campaign

[hexed mountain]

yeah due to phys base

[cobalt blade]

Ye

[hexed mountain]

but its not great either

[spice pecan]

probably not even playable as poison either

until endgame

[bold scarab]

give me trans reap that is just completely hit without the dot

xD

[hexed mountain]

we need 2 trans gems on every skill

[haughty bloom]

I want skitterbots on scion

[hexed mountain]

gib fun stuff

[haughty bloom]

triggerbots

[bold scarab]

lets get all the skills without a trans skill at least one first ... rolling magma and freezing pulse dont have trans or vaal skills

[hexed mountain]

yeah the old ones that arent played

[bold scarab]

even fireball has a vaal skill

[haughty bloom]

freezing pulse is solid it doesnt really need a trans

[bold scarab]

lel

[hexed mountain]

[tight plinth]

solid for what?

[spice pecan]

i wish freezing pulse worked with return proj

i wish creeping frost worked with return proj

[bold scarab]

mud flats kek ... assuming you dont get hit with a magic pack

[cobalt blade]

creeping does

[tight plinth]

it does?

[spice pecan]

creeping straight breaks afaik

[haughty bloom]

autobomb builds

[spice pecan]

it stops doing anything

[tight plinth]

dont it explode on impact?

[cobalt blade]

the explosion can shot gun

[cobalt blade]

i mean ive done it on wardloopers

[haughty bloom]

it has very high effectiveness of added damage

[cobalt blade]

maybe they broke it recently but eh

[spice pecan]

i always saw it just bounce off the enemy and back to myself

[haughty bloom]

I use it on my looper its solid

[spice pecan]

my looper uses it without return proj

[cobalt blade]

did you have a pierce

[tranquil umbra]

they threw that shit back at you

[spice pecan]

uhh

[cobalt blade]

You need to pierce once for return

[spice pecan]

let me check

[cobalt blade]

you pierce target it reaches max distance it returns to you explodes on floor

[gritty garnet]

have you tried it with snakepits

[tranquil umbra]

can we get a cast on ward break I assure you I will be normal about it

[gritty garnet]

last time I actually used the skill it was still called ab

[spice pecan]

ab?

[lean urchin]

im selectivly blind

[gritty garnet]

arousing breeze obviously

[tranquil umbra]

💀

[fickle glen]

Why do you want clusters deleted?

[hexed mountain]

manaforge blade support , basically manaforge arrow but with melee skills

[lean urchin]

cast on melee kill, but better?

[spice pecan]

annoying to craft, you spam them on every build

uncreative unfun garbage

[gritty garnet]

you mean bladeblade support

[tawdry olive]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-doakes-curious-suspicious-questioning-gif-14390669560130901665

[bold scarab]

i want more things to actually jump across and manipulate the tree that already exists ... not add new parts to the tree ... i hate clusters

[fickle glen]

Aren’t they supposed to be the last piece of passives needed to complete every build?

[surreal musk]

it is returning

tehre are cats flying towards u

[cobalt blade]

I think itd be fine if there was more options than spamming all att/int/str clusters

[haughty bloom]

I think the pulse is reaching the wall and destroying itself on wall and not returning

[tawdry olive]

just let us recomb them

[cobalt blade]

its kinda annoying that a majority of end game builds just rely on that

[spice pecan]

it has really strange interactions with return at least

[hexed mountain]

i mean for attacks not to trigger spells

[cobalt blade]

Ye they destroy on hitting a wall

Do it in shaper arena or other boss arenas with no walls

[bold scarab]

also timeless jewels should list out exactly what it does

[hexed mountain]

would be very nice with cyclone too

[bold scarab]

or be deleted

[tranquil umbra]

passage jewel that lets you allocate another copy of itself to any other jewel socket on the tree and path from there

[fickle glen]

I’ve been bitching about that for a long time

[hexed mountain]

dont you love to pull out the timeless calculator and checking the number of the timeless you want?

[bold scarab]

i thought poe2 learned from poe1 with timelost jewels ... but no they had to add those abyss jewels that are just like timeless jewels ... so ye that reminded me to hate timeless jewels again

[finite quail]

Ok I have my 3.28 leaguestarter ready

https://pobb.in/Puj1uEq09zgL

[spice pecan]

YO?

[finite quail]

I cooked

[tranquil umbra]

I remember seeing a funky ass unique jewel that extended the radius of a timeless jewel but I have no idea what the name is

[spice pecan]

faster attacks in main link alkLFG

[finite quail]

yes

[spice pecan]

oh i just looked at the jewels

[finite quail]

I'd rather take faster attacks over 4% more dps and it feeling clunkier

[haughty bloom]

im probably going to leaguestart scion again cause its op

[bold scarab]

scion trash

[spice pecan]

oh i wasn't talking shit, i just know that would trigger wtd/db

[haughty bloom]

but they teased something scion so idk

[finite quail]

wdym wtd/db

[spice pecan]

WTD and deathbeam

[bold scarab]

even more reason to not touch it with a 10 ft pole

[haughty bloom]

nah phys dot scion is just absurdly strong leaguestarter

[tranquil umbra]

Scion is getting removed

[lean urchin]

scigone

[tranquil umbra]

it will be as if it was a mirage

[haughty bloom]

ill see, if it is idk... maybe ill farm oni-goroshi and leaguestart saboteur

[tawdry olive]

if dps were everything all the slammers would be walking around with karui choppers
so yea understandable

[hexed mountain]

scavenger's problem if it replaces ascendant really is that you get no damage for campain until lab 3

[karmic gust]

ofc it would if faster attacks looks good for build in pob then the pob has big issues

[cobalt blade]

no u D: scion bis

best class

[lean urchin]

best|| cl||ass

[haughty bloom]

spellslinger reap exsang corrupting fevor one shots everything zero gear zero ascendancy till red maps

[spice pecan]

i was thinking of cooking regular glacial hammer with 2x foulborn frostbreath

[karmic gust]

like not having enough attack speed somehow on ascendancy that gives you quite a lot of it

[spice pecan]

on like a jugg

[finite quail]

its elementalist

[karmic gust]

yea and ele gives a lot of attack speed

[finite quail]

glacial hammer of shattering elementalist

[finite quail]

?

[cobalt blade]

golems

[bold scarab]

?

[finite quail]

from what, lightning golem?

[karmic gust]

yes

[tawdry olive]

can never have enough attack speed after playing the int/acc stacker 😔

[tranquil umbra]

do multiple golems stack

[finite quail]

its about 25% dps from my lightning golem

[hexed mountain]

arent you basically ruining all your ES if you run trauma on that build though?

[finite quail]

buffs no

[cobalt blade]

truth

[cobalt blade]

you can go endu charges into divine shield

[finite quail]

armor and es mastery for the recovery, es on block, and divine shield which works with trauma iirc

[cobalt blade]

and get overleech from armour if you want

it does yea

arm/es mastery doesnt tho

its enemies only

[finite quail]

ik

It specifies enemy hits

but its a striker and a block build

so its gonna get hit often

[cobalt blade]

ye

[finite quail]

I could also get zealoth's oath too if I really needed the es recovery

Sadly cant add primordial bond megalos as they are very expensive

But they'd be very nice dps increases

[spice pecan]

wtf

[tawdry olive]

add them anyway, dont let your dreams be dreams

[spice pecan]

none of these characters have the item i am filtering for

[hexed mountain]

might be dangerous tho considering elementalist is most certainly getting hit by the patch notes in some way

[cobalt blade]

im surprised none of those are dual strike of ambi

check weapon swap

[karmic gust]

isnt golem dark monarch also expensive usually

[hexed mountain]

yeah

[spice pecan]

none of them have weapon swaps listed

[karmic gust]

so surely can snatch 1 or 2 megalos while at it

[tawdry olive]

my take is they'll probably do something to the versatility of the class, 12 asc points aren't enough

there's so many good nodes

[hexed mountain]

i expect the golem node to take the hit

its way too good for a 2 pointer

[spice pecan]

there's a champion all the way at the bottom playing dual strike of ambi with it, but like, why is it showing me mostly characters that don't have it

[spice pecan]

oh wtf, i can't see the weapon swap buttons

[cobalt blade]

tf

[fossil ibex]

Elementalist is mid at best. Why nerf a mid ascendancy

[cobalt blade]

well they do have it in weapon swap lol

[tranquil umbra]

me when I lie

[finite quail]

Not very expensive

[hexed mountain]

sir GGG isnt reading tchat right now

[cobalt blade]

its expensive at league start

falls off hard

[spice pecan]

dark mode filter was hiding them for some reason

[finite quail]

reverse psychology doesnst work with ggg bro

[fossil ibex]

Damn. I tried at least

[spice pecan]

i wonder if 10% base crit would be good enough to use regular glacial hammer

[tight plinth]

why is that 100 chaos?

[tranquil umbra]

can't wait for foulborns to cost 1 quadrillion dollars without guaranteed breach in every map

[cobalt blade]

what if we get the whole community to band together to do it as a bingo chart

[tight plinth]

enchant?

[spice pecan]

max rolled foulborn mod i guess

nah all the max rolled foulborn mod ones are like this

[tight plinth]

ah makes sense

[hexed mountain]

with scarabs and tree you might just be able to farm a LOT more gifts tho

[cobalt blade]

every bingo chart with some reverse psychology square

[hexed mountain]

so if they're expensive people will farm them a ton

[spice pecan]

oh that's cruel, the foulborn mod replaces the attack speed

[lean urchin]

does it always replace a mod?

[spice pecan]

yeah

[cobalt blade]

it always replaces the same mod

[tight plinth]

am i tripping or was there a mod/passive that regens your life every warcry?

[lean urchin]

berserk node?

ascendency

[cobalt blade]

mastery

[finite quail]

mastery

[tight plinth]

right

[finite quail]

recover 15% of life when you warcry

[tight plinth]

thanks

i was trying to find in page regen, i keep forgetting recover

oh its not on the wiki page for warcry

[stuck phoenix]

Specifically "use"

Would be crazy if it wasn't

[cobalt blade]

surely would be balanced for the autoexert users to get that recovery

[finite quail]

Yep it would be op with autoexertion

[spice pecan]

what was the old name of autoexert

call to arms?

[cobalt blade]

yea and it made the warcries share cd but included the buff part

personally miss when it was on the tree since corrupting cry was kind of fun but sucks manual warcrying

[tight plinth]

is there no other way to make warcry instant aside from autoexert?

[cobalt blade]

nop

[tight plinth]

balls

i was about to pob a piano build

[tawdry olive]

i had a jank slammer where i bound enduring cry to left click and took this

[silent leaf]

there is

called golden apple

[stuck phoenix]

Yeah if you're counting autoexertion as instant, it's instant too

I wouldn't count either

[peak heron]

do you craft with heist items or just flat out sell them

[tight plinth]

oh yeah its not instant, its just non intrusive(?) i guess

[stuck phoenix]

Commonly called triggered

[tight plinth]

cant be triggered

[stuck phoenix]

For the record, triggering is instant

But it's just silly to say that

[stuck phoenix]

Well, why list autoexertion then :p

[silent leaf]

^

i see autoexert

and i just say golden apple

[tight plinth]

idk, i forgot my trail of thought already

[stuck phoenix]

Lol

Train of thought

[cobalt blade]

its eternal not golden but i forgot it exists because its a real bad shield

has some niche use cases admitedly for rageloops

[silent leaf]

ye eternal apple

i forgot

[silent leaf]

its very niche for chieftain too

[cobalt blade]

yea

[silent leaf]

since you get what, 10% max res or smth and enduring cry

also 10% base crit more or less

[spice pecan]

for cogwork/helical/simplex/focused you split them 2 or 3 ways and then sell

keep one copy if you want to craft, sell if you dont

[peak heron]

what about the rares that already have tailoring orbs on them in the cases

[spice pecan]

most of those you just sell if they're half decent, or ignore them

[tawdry olive]

sometimes you get people selling unsplit for split prices because they dont know, rip

[keen lotus]

eyy boys is there a better way to level HROC than srs?

[spice pecan]

better? probably not

[bold scarab]

hrock?

[drowsy eagle]

the smite minion

[opaque wing]

SRS is basically the way to level minions now, with minion zoo being like the next option that is less good

[bold scarab]

oh

[keen lotus]

damn okay

[spice pecan]

absolution is okay

[drowsy eagle]

absolution?

[spice pecan]

with herald of purity

[keen lotus]

srs leveling is so bad until unleash

ill need to look at absolution

[spice pecan]

absolution is how ranged animate weapon levels

[deep kite]

What is absolution?

[spice pecan]

a spell that creates minions if the target dies

[drowsy eagle]

smite but it's minion

[deep kite]

Oh

Like unearth in poe2

[drowsy eagle]

no

[deep kite]

[tight plinth]

i think i solved my league start problem

[jagged remnant]

@sleek barn @finite quail Done for free, thanks guys.

[sleek barn]

nice

well done

[stray sedge]

Gg

[sleek barn]

I'm sure your ping was meant with ill intent but you did fine

[finite quail]

well done

No problem champ

[lucid gale]

[modern zinc]

I want to try necromancer lifestacking flamelink spectres

Is it okay if I use melee spectres?

[vague storm]

I just saw this and started rolling XD
Had to share

[opaque wing]

Are you attached to the idea of specters, because player life stacking Flamelink AG is giga good and known

[modern zinc]

really?

I thought 'cause you could only have 1 AG it wouldn't be too good clear

[opaque wing]

You use AG of smiting and give it +strikes gloves and it clears packs an attack

[tight plinth]

yes but you can equip AG with 2 rathpiths

and crown of eyes

[modern zinc]

niceeeee

[tight plinth]

and also grey wind axe

[spice pecan]

since when can you give ag two shields

[keen lotus]

wot

[opaque wing]

Necro Aegis keystone

[spice pecan]

right

[keen lotus]

makes sense

[modern zinc]

damn, I just realized

[vague storm]

We now live in a world where you can equip 3 rings, you shouldn't be surprised

[modern zinc]

poeninja now has a lot of ex-Phrecia characters

some builds are just not real

[keen lotus]

idk abou tyou but i have 10 fingers

[modern zinc]

lmfao

[vague storm]

IDK about you, but I believe in old D&D logic where rubbing magic items together all day has disastrous effects

[keen lotus]

i have no idea what i want to play

done so much hroc but its so good

[vague storm]

Play CWC cyclone icestorm, it's fun

[opaque wing]

I mean, you could take a break for 5 days until reveal and then ride that hype to make ideas. 😛

[keen lotus]

im bad at poe so i like to have an idea and practice some

[vague storm]

I'm doing exactly that right now, testing out an impale build I'm gunna use for my HC league starter

[keen lotus]

i was looking at my standard chars and hopped on an impale cyclone char i made forever ago

did not do well in a t17

[vague storm]

It got buffed like...2 or 3 updates ago I think

[keen lotus]

impale did?

[vague storm]

Some part of the formula did, forget which part

Let me look

[keen lotus]

right on. this was a build from like 3.3 or someshit so its way outdated

[vague storm]

Let's see, if you're going facebreakerc they buffed that

[errant hatch]

"Minions Deal x% Increased Damage" on a bone helmet- will an ichor overwrite that?

[vague storm]

If it's an implicit yes

[errant hatch]

yar it is

mmk

[golden phoenix]

[tight plinth]

anyone have this pack? does it work in poo1?

[opaque wing]

I do, and yes it works in PoE1, I like my fluffy armor. (But hate the crowbell)

[tight plinth]

thanks!

i already have poe2, do i get another key to give away?

[opaque wing]

IIRC that is the case yes.

[tight plinth]

[opaque sphinx]

godamnit its that time of league again

snap makes a video cuz his 5man not getting 3 mirrors a map

now every 10 hour timmy makes a reddit thread about ground loot

[tight plinth]

yep

muh poor ground loot

[modern zinc]

I thought the same lmao

junkie that plays 14 hours per day misses his cocaine overdose

[opaque wing]

His opinions are valid even if you dislike the structure he plays in, don't need to go calling them names because of it.

[livid quarry]

i complained bout ground loot before they made the vids

[opaque sphinx]

i call him names cuz he does it yearly

knowing he causes a shitstorm from knobs who aren't remotely playing at that level

him calling chris a liar is half the reason we have no chris

so insults deserved

[livid quarry]

think about the poor mapper class

[finite quail]

yes

[livid quarry]

wait. working class. mapping class

[tight plinth]

im buying it next stash sale for points

[opaque wing]

I mean, next stash sale will have the next PoE1 packs as an option, so what if not those? 😛

[tight plinth]

gotta ask the ol ball and chains first

[opaque wing]

(Which those MTX will be in PoE2 next PoE2 update)

[tight plinth]

yeah if i find those good, id get them but i really like this one

it also has a poe2 key i can give to my brother which is a plus

[opaque wing]

Fair, just a bit of poking fun at the timing.

[drowsy eagle]

I hate the cape

[tight plinth]

theres a cape?

would you mind showing it

[drowsy eagle]

the physics when you move kinda weird tho

[tight plinth]

yeah its meh

i dont rock back attachments anyway

the physics do be weird on them

[tranquil sedge]

wut

[opaque sphinx]

do u not remember kalandra league

[tranquil sedge]

i remember but idk what snap had to do with that

all i remember is chris/ggg getting downvoted to oblivion on reddit

[opaque sphinx]

-snap makes video "ur getting less loot omg panic"
-"actually ur getting more loot" - chris
-"no snap says we getting less loot" - community
-"no, snap is getting less loot, regular players are getting more" - chris
-snap makes video about why him getting less loot means everyone gets less loot and its bad for everyone
-"wow omg see snap says we're getting less loot fuck u chris" - community
-"but... ur not and here's the numbers" - chris
-"fuck u and ur numbers u PoS why do u hate us having loot" - community
-"aiight bye" - chris

[tranquil sedge]

:O

[spice pecan]

i think this is incredibly reductive of the points he made

[tranquil sedge]

i did not play kalandra, i went from 3.17 -> 3.20 lol

but wasn't it generally accepted that people were overall getting less loot?

[opaque sphinx]

no

[cobalt blade]

i mean you literally got less loot alch n going if you ran random mechanics ex breach - but if you alch n goed and only killed non league mechs you made more yes

[opaque sphinx]

snap said players were

[tranquil sedge]

^ what naca said, chris' comment on reddit had talked about nerfing league mechanic historic quant or smth?

[cobalt blade]

and you obviously made less juicing

yea

[opaque sphinx]

thats just factually false

[cobalt blade]

its just factually not

they removed a 5-10x bonus from league mechanic mobs into a 2-3x overall loot increase - that 5-10x could multiply off multiple mechanics

like alva into beyond

[spice pecan]

it's mathematically sound and proven that loot was extremely heavily nerfed

i don't think any sort of hate boner for snap/group players can change that

[cobalt blade]

regular content so killing a random rare in your map outside of a league mechanic

[little robin]

Is it hard to build a flickerstriker?

[spice pecan]

the dissonance in that post is frightening

[opaque sphinx]

no regular content includes league mechanics

[spice pecan]

because the entire point of pantheon scouting was to find the mobs that dropped 23464435234 items

[opaque sphinx]

it just means not turbo juicing

[spice pecan]

and killing anything else in the map was functionally worthless

[opaque sphinx]

this wasnt about pantheon scouting

[cobalt blade]

that culler stuff for that was miserable lmao

oh also kira you have to exclude loot tile mechanics for this

so legion currency reward deli currency reward etc

[tranquil sedge]

most of ur loot in this game isn't 'regular content' to begin with tho, no?

[cobalt blade]

because specifically the complaint is ground loot which got lower

[tranquil sedge]

its loot tiles and league mechanics

[spice pecan]

league mechanics that dont involve killing monsters/receiving drops from monsters*

[opaque sphinx]

league mechanics are regular content in this context

when he says regular content he means shit the average player does, ie legion farming and other mechanics
what he was ignoring was 5 man rogue exile party stacking

that is not regular content

[spice pecan]

legion is loot tiles anyways

so who cares

[tight plinth]

oh god not this again

[spice pecan]

also he didn't ignore rogue exiles? he mentioned that pretty heavily in the video...?

[opaque sphinx]

legion is ur mix of loot tiles and ground loot

[spice pecan]

i ran legion a fuck ton this league

i dont think a single item from the mobs ever showed on my filter

[tranquil sedge]

what being in pre-season does to a poe player

[opaque sphinx]

omg i didnt mean he ignored it completely, i meant thats what he defined as "not regular content"

[cobalt blade]

i mean they do make a distinction wi thin the what were working on post

[spice pecan]

100% of my legion loot came from the tiles at the end

[opaque sphinx]

regular monsters =/= regular content

[spice pecan]

i feel like this is beginning to get into semantics

[cobalt blade]

poe does tend to do that

[spice pecan]

i want to go into the map and kill mobs and get loot

and that does not exist

[cobalt blade]

but idk its extremely noticeable how much less loot you get outside of loot tiles just doing basic ass mapping

[opaque sphinx]

idk existed plenty for me this league

[spice pecan]

i dont want to walk into the map, do one mechanic, and leave without clearing the map

[opaque sphinx]

t17s with any decent farm still dropped an avg of like 1-2d in loot

[spice pecan]

so stacking scarabs for one mechanic

which is another thing snap pointed out after the scarab rework

[tranquil sedge]

chris did try to clarify later this massive bonus removal was apparently not that massive in context of other bonuses, but the problem is lots of ppl were complaining

also you have comments on reddit like this from ppl saying they were in alpha testing and it didnt feel good even then

[spice pecan]

yeah i mean there's countless sources of both credible and anecdotal feedback about how bad things felt, i think trying to say "everyone else was wrong" is kind of disingenous at best

[opaque sphinx]

yeah idk that guy seems like one i would ignore feedback from as well from ggg

[tranquil sedge]

also
chris talked a lot about loot 'on average' being okay

he didn't mention variance much, but people were complaining about variance too

[spice pecan]

and trying to pin it on snap making everyone rage about it is kind of crazy

[tranquil sedge]

why?

because he said loot felt bad?

[opaque sphinx]

because he said it was very apparent before even maps lmao

bro got 1 chaos instead of 2 and went fuck loot bad tho

[cobalt blade]

thing is you only needed 2 multiplicative sources of rarity to beat that 41k% bonus since rares themself already have an innate bonus(and thats excluding the quant which they dont mention there)

[spice pecan]

you have alpha testers saying loot bad, you have average players saying loot bad, you have solo juicers saying loot bad, you have group juicers saying loot bad

like i dont know what more you need

[cobalt blade]

and those would regularly overlap just doing normal mapping

[spice pecan]

does jesus need to rise from the dead and say "yeah it was actually kinda bad"

[opaque sphinx]

90% of players just regurgitate what someone else tells them and have less than 0 idea

[crisp plinth]

chris wilson quit this wont happen

[spice pecan]

i get that it's reddit/social media but saying that everyone else has no clue is... certainly a choice

[opaque sphinx]

im not pinning it solely on snap, im just bitter that he argued with the dude who made the game and had the numbers

and said no u

when the dude opened the code and went uh yeah

[cobalt blade]

also bit funny regular non league content ex regular content you find more but breach 7% less

[crisp plinth]

its not too uncommon to say nuhuh then being wrong still

[cobalt blade]

and thats just implying breach no other bonuses which would make that difference more massive

[tranquil sedge]

snap's the guy behind empy's party right?

[opaque sphinx]

if he was a regular dude i would be less salty, but he's decently sized and respected in the community so he's gotta realize he's not some average joe sayin shit

[spice pecan]

yes

[cobalt blade]

one of them yea

[crisp plinth]

theres too much shit interacting with anything that there is no possibility they just overlook something

[tranquil sedge]

thanks

[opaque sphinx]

and ppl will parrot him without understanding him

[crisp plinth]

in the end the vibe is more important than that anyway

if people decide it doesnt feel good they want change even if it works as intended

[tight plinth]

wheres flowers, we need more people

[tranquil sedge]

that's not really his responsibility though

content creators have clout just by virtue of being popular but that doesn't actually mean they have any responsibility

[kindred silo]

numbers r kinda meaningless if no one can verify them

[spice pecan]

the entire point was that people said "loot bad", chris says "no, loot actually good", and people said "no dude, it feels bad"

[tranquil sedge]

if people feel like its bad then that's all that matters

even if they're all wrong

[spice pecan]

like how many times has ggg said players are very good at finding and identifying problems, even if they dont have the solutions

they've said this time and time again

[opaque sphinx]

idk when u become public eye it literally is ur responsibility how u phrase shit and influence things

[opaque wing]

That's not GGG, that's a known game design principle at this point

[tranquil sedge]

nah

you don't owe anyone anything for free lol

[opaque sphinx]

bro have u never seen spoderman

[tranquil sedge]

i dunno what that is

[opaque sphinx]

"with great power comes great responsibility"

[tranquil sedge]

yea that's what people who have no power say

its easy to say meaningless platitudes

[crisp plinth]

they dont have any power

[spice pecan]

also, you have to remember that the loot nerfs weren't even in the patchnotes

[opaque sphinx]

he's fuckin spiderman dude

[tranquil sedge]

oh

[cobalt blade]

and he posted the data he collected compared to last league from both solo and group players and determined it was noticeably less loot and many many other players determined the same thing

[tranquil sedge]

yea thats just a movive man

content creators are just ppl other people like to watch for entertainment lmao

[opaque sphinx]

movie with a good message

[tranquil sedge]

good movie agreed

[cobalt blade]

influencing other people to check and compare

[tranquil sedge]

if you go blindly off a creator and they're wrong, making u wrong in the process, its your fault

not the creator's

[opaque sphinx]

less for his specific group and style of play

[tranquil sedge]

they owe nobody anything

[spice pecan]

loot nerfs not in patch notes
many players say they're dropping less loot
ggg confirms quant nerf
chris says "no you're getting more loot actually"
players say "no dude we are not"

idk man

[tranquil sedge]

even if you take a step back for a sec

say the players are wrong

[cobalt blade]

less for anyone who doesnt do just loot tiles

[tranquil sedge]

that chris is right

my question is, so what

ur game exists to keep players happy

if they're not happy just do changes that make them happy

[opaque sphinx]

thats how u kill games

[tranquil sedge]

if they're wrong and unhappy, just pretend they're right anyway and make some changes for the league to make them happy again

[crisp plinth]

exactly why we got trade enhancements and other shit

no thats how they become better too

devs are no god kings either

[opaque sphinx]

there's a hard balance between that shit

[tranquil sedge]

im not saying go add 5000% more loot and every league is affliction

and balance certainly cannot be easy in poe

but like dude look at the chart for 3.19 player count

[crisp plinth]

if the feedback isnt just feels bad but also has some stats i am sure devs actually enjoy looking into it

[tranquil sedge]

that shit was tragic lol

[spice pecan]

like there's a very, very good reason why people did not like that league

[crisp plinth]

as it shows people still care enough and it has some data base

[opaque sphinx]

im not saying devs are gods im just saying if we got everything every player asked for we would have:
loot pets
pay to skip campaign
legal rmt
every build would do 200m on 2 div
ever rare would drop 20div

[tranquil sedge]

which is why you don't do every single thing players ask for

[crisp plinth]

thats not helpful to any discussion tho

[spice pecan]

and i think trying to imply that everyone is a stupid redditor who doesn't know shit about the game is very not healthy nor helpful

[tranquil sedge]

nobody's saying do all that

[crisp plinth]

then you get your wtd and you get a way worse demand list

[tranquil sedge]

but if your league population is tanking hard

surely you can identify some concessions

[crisp plinth]

then you aggregate and see what a lot of people want

[opaque sphinx]

ik but thats my point is players think they want a lot of shit that is often to the detriment of the game

[tranquil sedge]

of course they do

[crisp plinth]

why does that matter though

[tranquil sedge]

thats why you don't give them free reign

but u have to keep them happy still

[crisp plinth]

^

[opaque sphinx]

i honestly genuinely think that league without streamers saying "muh loot bad" the league would have been much better received

[spice pecan]

also when you point out a problem, then you get told it's not actually a problem and you're wrong, and then you still are experiencing the same problem - that is unbelievably frustrating

[cobalt blade]

dropping loot isnt detrimental to the game that other shit is

[crisp plinth]

why do you think people only parrot shit though

its kind of infantilizing

[opaque sphinx]

and very few players actually would have bitched

[coral summit]

so today i learned how to read and that the breach rings have an aura effect cap of +150%

[opaque sphinx]

because 90% of ppl do

[spice pecan]

dude standard players were bitching hour 1

[crisp plinth]

citation

[spice pecan]

lol

[coral summit]

i was smashing together a will of xoph+enmity's ms chieftain

[cobalt blade]

also it absolutely wouldnt noone wanted to fight a kalandra tile 12 rare that took 5 minutes to kill to drop 3 rare items pog

[coral summit]

and was like

[spice pecan]

it's not just people glued to twitch

[opaque sphinx]

u can check the sub for example lmao

[crisp plinth]

its such an easy cop out to just say people parrot shit imo

[coral summit]

"what if I used nameless ascendancy for both enmity and TWOOOOOO rings"

[opaque wing]

Would be silly if they didn't, but I want to live in that world where that exists for that silliness.

[coral summit]

(there was no point.)

[tranquil sedge]

look i am of the opinion players in a game, are just like any sufficiently large group of people anywhere

they are going to be shortsighted and narrow minded and ask for things that are deterimental to themselves in the long term, on the whole (as in, there's still going to be enough sane and smart folks, but they'll be averaged out)

but that doesn't mean they are always wrong, and you still have to keep them happy, curse of being a dev lol

[opaque sphinx]

literally look at the sub dude and sort by date

nobody has made a single post about ground loot for past 2 months

till 4 days ago

when snap/fub made vids

[tranquil sedge]

....who's even been playing the league dude

[coral summit]

yeah i was at like 1050% fire damage and didnt realize how the ring worked until i rly reread it lmao

[spice pecan]

no one has been playing lol

[opaque sphinx]

now suddenly there's 10+ of ppl bitching

[crisp plinth]

when something comes up people engage with it

[spice pecan]

and the people that are playing are either running boxes, or doing the new bugged alva strat

[tranquil sedge]

why do you make this sound unnatural?

[coral summit]

was gonna be like "that's gonna be crazy, two rings for nearly 7x aura effect"

[crisp plinth]

but beginning of the league also had the posts

so idk

[coral summit]

naturally GGG saw this coming LOL

[opaque sphinx]

literally nobody cared till streamer posted vid

[spice pecan]

yes, we also had loot complaints at the beginning of the league

[tranquil sedge]

yes but why do you make it sound unnatural

[crisp plinth]

yes because game is dead between week 3 and teaser season

[coral summit]

which is a shame, because 7x aura effect with anger+paradoxica would actually make it good xdd

[opaque sphinx]

its not unnatural, dude asked why i think ppl mostly parrot shit

[cobalt blade]

wowee people comment about it and the start of the league maybe a bit midway thrut he league and then we play the game

[opaque sphinx]

that was my example

[tranquil sedge]

you do realize if i went and made a post or video a week ago nobody would have given a shit because im a random nobody

[silent leaf]

cause its instinct

[spice pecan]

it is when the league is shit

[silent leaf]

[tranquil sedge]

i would get no traction if I had made such a video

nobody knows who tf i am

but everybody knows fub

or whoever else

[opaque sphinx]

but thats my point
they didn't care until streamer told them to care

[tranquil sedge]

and you know that nothing gets done unless it has sufficient traction

[spice pecan]

no, they cared on league start and then quit the league

[tranquil sedge]

why should players waste their time giving feedback if it wont be heard

[coral summit]

bro i've randomly made a couple of videos and im like a literal random uploading whatever game i play at the time

[cobalt blade]

also i do wanna point out if you scroll past the date before poe2 league start you find alot more posts about ground loot

[coral summit]

and somehow ended up with like 2k views on a 3.25 ignite slammer

[tranquil sedge]

but if a streamer does it well now u know someone at ggg probably gonna hear it