1┃general

[potent bramble]

And yet you kinda have to do multiple mechanics b/c there aren't enough stats to do everything fully on one... but you can deff do like a major/minor mechanic, and use the extra stats for the minor ones that you don't really have to pay attention to

[split maple]

Removing adrenaline from oshabi prepatch was kinda tragic now that I think of it

Game rly needs more sources of adrenaline

[spice pecan]

this is literally why ppl say "do non atlas strats for the first few days till you can scrounge up an idol set"

[tawny garnet]

i guess my main point is, why don't they make bossing more profitable as i feel like that should be the end game

[elfin shale]

Just run 2 billion elders and get triple hatred watcher's eye, ez

[elder marlin]

Slower than a snale with 4x weak, the bulk made of out butter

[pulsar dune]

bossing is probably a bit too easy

[split maple]

Bc ggg doesn't have impact on bossing profitability. It's direct race to the bottom between drop and frag prices

[pulsar dune]

if you specialise a build towards it it becomes braindead

[spice pecan]

i think a LOT of people will be heisting/bosskilling

[split maple]

It's set by economy

[spice pecan]

and maybe even delving

[proud gorge]

I mean, you can definitely do both. That's why there's a bunch of tiers, to (theoretically) allow anyone's favourite pokemon to be playable and let them play it to the best degree possible

[true falcon]

If you specialize a build into anything it becomes braindead

[spice pecan]

because of how ass idols and map sustain is/are on the first few days of phrecia

[split maple]

Like early league echoes and indigon price Will be crazy crazy then it Will fall slowly

[elfin shale]

Most mechanics dont let you get away with literally 0 defences

[pulsar dune]

that is also true, outside of shaper, there really isn't much a balancing lever with bosses, since it's just really straightforward content

[pulsar dune]

not really, most of the high end farming stuff does require some attention and reacting to whats on the screen

[midnight escarp]

why are ambush scarabs of containment so much?? when i heard the ding i thought it would sell for like 10 chaos not 130 holy

[proud gorge]

though in practice, if your favorite pokemon is, like, idk Volbeat or something, you're probably out of luck

[split maple]

40 slot machines per map

It's gudge

[spice pecan]

sanctum, heist, and bosskilling, all of which are off-atlas, seem rather strong this time

[hard cliff]

what's your fav pokemon?

Their are wrong answers

[spice pecan]

volbeat gets tail glow and baton pass, put some respeck on his name smh

[proud gorge]

very very powerful in combination with a full strongbox setup (and on a well-rolled T17)

[midnight escarp]

good old gambling i see

[split maple]

And like 130c is cheap enough I would run a lot of slots

[spice pecan]

not even the worst bug type pokemon out there

smfh

[proud gorge]

I used to think I didn't have one, since I tended to just pick whatever pokemon I was currently playing with and enjoying (mostly stall pokemon, I'm a Big Stall player), but then I filled out this cool Favorite Pokemon chart, and it turns out my favorite pokemon is Altaria

[spice pecan]

Dewgong

has been my favorite since i played blue version in 1999

runner-up is alolan marowak

[midnight escarp]

ill take it ive been very poor this league

[elfin shale]

Reuniclus baybeeeeee

[proud gorge]

here's the chart

I won't post the entire thing

[spice pecan]

reuniclus apparently did some degen shit in gen 5 single battles

[hard cliff]

great choice

[spice pecan]

but even back in the og wifi/shoddybattle days in gen 4 i only played doubles

[elfin shale]

Afaik its just consistently an Alright pokemon

[proud gorge]

but based on filling out the chart, my favorite pokemon are, in order, Altaria, Empoleon, Mawile, Gastrodon, Mantine, and Arceus

[spice pecan]

reuniclus can calm mind + stored power safely since it has magic guard

that shit gets unethical real fast

[elfin shale]

Usually you want to just run Psychic/Psyshock so you dont have to rely on Stored Power

[hard cliff]

I have never heard of this before. It appears to be some kind of baby piloting a living slime bioform so sure why not.

[spice pecan]

psyshock is only to hit blissey

and nothing else

[elfin shale]

Its a fetus

[spice pecan]

maybe cresselia after calm minds

[elfin shale]

Its to win Calm Mind races

[earnest raven]

I still kept my original pokemon cards

[spice pecan]

sure, but you're never losing a CM race against anything besides clefable

[hard cliff]

Not super familiar with this one but it looks really cute so good choice

[proud gorge]

Reuniclus is pretty fun yeah, though the biggest issue with it is that it's just another mono-psychic type, and there's so many of those

[elfin shale]

I guess

[hard cliff]

I was also a fetus once

[spice pecan]

tho again i didn't rly ever play singles

so my knowledge is mostly just doubles

[kindred silo]

dharmann def best mon

[spice pecan]

darmanitan?

[elfin shale]

If you drink a Reuniclus you can fix this

[kindred silo]

ya

[spice pecan]

i literally ripped my last bw1 nuzlocke

because of it

it has hustle which gives its moves an accuracy penalty and i missed like 3 fire fangs in a row

fuck darmanitan

[elfin shale]

I also love Volcanion too bad its unobtanium

[proud gorge]

but yeah, Reuniclus is a good pokemon for challenge playthroughs, because it's one of the better trick room setters that you can usually pretty reliably get access to by the mid-game

and it also plays well under trick room, with its base 30 speed

[spice pecan]

i wouldn't use reuniclus for TR setup when gothitelle exists tho

tbh

but it is an option for sure

[elfin shale]

Reuniclus just has a lotta sets it can run

[spice pecan]

yeah, good point

[elfin shale]

I wish it had more options for phys moves and a better atk itd be funny and also make the fuckin pokedex entry relevant

[spice pecan]

doesn't it even have a support setup with like imprison/trick + scarf?

think it might get taunt as well

[elfin shale]

yeah you can probably do that

It def gets taunt

Gets Recover

[proud gorge]

Gothitelle is mostly a screens mon, it's just not really slow enough to really play under Trick Room in a Nuzlocke/challenge playthrough context

except in very specific circumstances

[spice pecan]

nah but it's an S tier trick room mon in doubles context

[proud gorge]

well yeah

[kindred silo]

gothithelle is used in vgc cuz shadow tag

[spice pecan]

it's also the poster child for perish trap

[hard cliff]

my favorite Pokemon

[kindred silo]

basically allowing perish trap stuff

[spice pecan]

and shadow tag yeah

[elder marlin]

[elfin shale]

You can also run Regenerator which is REALLY nice

[spice pecan]

oh fuck you're right

reuniclus gets fucking regenerator too

[hard cliff]

???????

[elfin shale]

yeah lol

it gets two insane abilities

[frigid wedge]

whst we discussing

[elfin shale]

path of exile

[spice pecan]

pokemon

[elder marlin]

Nerd stuff

[spice pecan]

of exile

[frigid wedge]

yeah what about pokemon

[hard cliff]

what Pokemon to play on Phrecia league

[elfin shale]

new league

[kindred silo]

path of slaves

[frigid wedge]

can i play you

[elfin shale]

You can also run Assault Vest Reuniclus, though ive never liked assault vest

[spice pecan]

the only regenerators i ever have on my mind are like toxapex and ho-oh lmao

[hard cliff]

you don't have the coins

[elfin shale]

i hear its good tho

[spice pecan]

AV reuniclus is an interesting choice

[elfin shale]

You're forgetting the goat that stupid sea slug

[proud gorge]

Raichu is better than Pikachu being your favorite at least lmao, but it's still relatively "basic" as far as favorite pokemon go. There's nothing wrong with that though, you must be happy to have Raichu get some love with the two new megas

[spice pecan]

i'd rather put my AV on ttar or something

[frigid wedge]

av is dog considering the upside is literally just spdef

[spice pecan]

gastrodon? nah we run storm drain

[elfin shale]

wait its not gastrodon

[frigid wedge]

clefairy?

[spice pecan]

no

[proud gorge]

Raichu has been sort of neglected compared to its pre-evolved counterpart for a while

[spice pecan]

clefairy runs friend guard eviolite

[elfin shale]

AMOONGUSS thats the fuckass regenerator mon

[frigid wedge]

i meant fable

[spice pecan]

fuck amoonguss

[earnest raven]

Raichu was one of my favs

[hard cliff]

I just think he's cute

[frigid wedge]

amoongus would be a nice regenerator mon if it a. wasnt just a status wall
and b. had any outs

[proud gorge]

you guys are forgetting the chief of regen, Alomomola

[kindred silo]

clefairy is bs

[spice pecan]

clefable is useless since it loses friend guard and can't use eviolite, all it has is magic guard/unaware and all stats under 90

[hard cliff]

LET'S GOOOOOO

[proud gorge]

aka Water Chansey

[kindred silo]

just runs follow me every turn

[spice pecan]

alomomola is such a hilarious glowup lately

[elfin shale]

I have selective amnesia regarding that mon

[elder marlin]

Whats bs abt it

[spice pecan]

follow me/life dew/moonblast/x

so goated

[proud gorge]

Alomomola was always good, it just was underappreciated due to the tiers being highly offense-focused

[spice pecan]

it's literally on my ingame vgc team

[elfin shale]

Now THIS is a mon i wish was good

[proud gorge]

but Alomamola has always been the perfect pair with Chansey/Blissey to form a defensive core for a full stall team

[spice pecan]

eldegoss saw some play in the first vgc format of gen 8 im pretty sure

[elfin shale]

Eldegoss has good moves and abilities but it has no stats to back it up

AS far as i recall at least

[elder marlin]

Why would u ever run life dew instead of heal pulse

[stoic horizon]

cant wait for the pokemon of exile league

[frigid wedge]

im slowly losing touch w pokemon and its making me rlly sad

bc like

[spice pecan]

heal pulse doesn't heal self, or it heals enemies too iirc?

[proud gorge]

since Chansey/Blissey are a near perfect special wall, and Alomomola is the best physical bulky wall that pivots really well into Blissey's checks

[frigid wedge]

im not buying the awful console that is the switch

but theres no alternative

[proud gorge]

not perfectly, mind you, but well enough

[spice pecan]

yeah you run life dew to heal self and ally at the same time

since heal pulse is only single target to someone else

[proud gorge]

the alternative is to play unofficial pokemon games

[elder marlin]

Its single target heal, but yea u cant heal urself

[frigid wedge]

anyone enjoy monotype

[proud gorge]

romhacks and fangames

[spice pecan]

pokemon unbound is like my #2 pokemon game ever

[kindred silo]

over the last like 5 years ive only played pokemon on shodwown

[spice pecan]

HIGHLY, MASSIVELY recommend pkmn unbound

[elfin shale]

If Eldegoss ever gets an evo with like a 520 bst and 0 other changes itd be broken

[proud gorge]

yeah a lot of the unofficial stuff is genuinely better than the mainline

[spice pecan]

to anyone that hasn't played

[elder marlin]

Pac is my fav fan game

[frigid wedge]

yeah but its hard to stay interested when theres no game

[spice pecan]

life dew is also super nice if you're spamming event raids since your teammates are going to be dumb

[frigid wedge]

i swear at one point i had 1700 elo on gen 9 randoms

[proud gorge]

play some fangame or romhack with pokemon up to Gen 7 in it at least, those are some very strong designs. Gen 9 games are rarer, but I'm sure do exist

at the very least as mods for those Gen 7 games

[spice pecan]

i was 2k elo in doubles vgc bo3

[frigid wedge]

yeah it was more a case of me being bored outta my mind

and kinda sick of not being able to play the games anymore

[proud gorge]

I like monotype conceptually, but I always gravitate towards Monotype Ice even though I know that's a terrible idea

[spice pecan]

again i highly recommend pokemon unbound

if you haven't played it, you need to

[frigid wedge]

i wonder if my old monotype teams are still around

[spice pecan]

legitimately a better pokemon game than anything gamefreak has made

[frigid wedge]

there was a period in early gen 8 where certain mons on showdown lost part of their learnset for dome stupid reason

[spice pecan]

dexit

[frigid wedge]

and it bricked my ou team

[proud gorge]

that's just gen 8 things baby

[spice pecan]

dexit killed pursuit, hidden power, scald on most mons, etc

[proud gorge]

gen 8 and gen 9 they've been removing things yeah

[elder marlin]

I have completed the pokedex for it can confirm its true

[proud gorge]

my poor Roost

[frigid wedge]

it killed my greninja set

[spice pecan]

fucking thank you

[split maple]

Huh someone got first hcssf emperor mastery today

Ggg pls fix drops

[spice pecan]

i need to do a black card run in unbound sometime

[proud gorge]

as a Big Stall player, the stall nerfs hurt

it's not like Stall was ever even that good

[frigid wedge]

ok

[spice pecan]

stall has been insane

[frigid wedge]

controversial opinion

[proud gorge]

but people hate playing against it

[spice pecan]

since gen4 in singles lmao

[frigid wedge]

gen 7 UU was my jam for ages

[hard cliff]

it took this long?!?

[pulsar dune]

Lab gems are so fucking dumb

[proud gorge]

Stall is good in singles, but it's not broken good, just "able to compete and play at the highest level" good

[spice pecan]

once stall got rocks and ww+roost skarmory it was so fucking over

[pulsar dune]

Tho IG no one really runs lab in SSF that much huh

[spice pecan]

well stall doesnt exist in doubles but yeah

[split maple]

I mean there is like not a lot of hcssf guys

[spice pecan]

games are way too explosive in dubs

[split maple]

But lab jewels are Just ridiculus

Even that one is valdo or voidborn

[frigid wedge]

i hate that showdown saves ur teams by device not by account sm

[pulsar dune]

Oh lmao

[elder marlin]

Now its the same song but corviknight

[split maple]

Like someone recently wanted a nonfoil mastery for collection so what did he do - vendored 5 foils

It's Just fucking insane

Fix drops ggg

[spice pecan]

yeah, it was funny that roost and whirlwind weren't compatible on the same skarmory set till gen 4 or 5 tho

[sudden helm]

and it wasnt even pure drop, thats reliquary no ?

[frigid wedge]

u should try and guess my ou greninja set

for gen 8

[spice pecan]

and now corviknight gets both WITH mirror armor

[proud gorge]

but to be fair, I can understand the argument, a lot of the time when pokemon get banned in singles it's because they're an overwhelming offensive threat, whereas very powerful defensive pokemon tend to be allowed to exist under the bans a lot longer because you have a lot more room to maneuver around them, whereas an overpowered offensive pokemon is just genuinely impossible to deal with without a hyperspecific counter

[elder marlin]

Or valdo

[frigid wedge]

i guarantee u cannot place the whole setup

[spice pecan]

gen 8 is before protean nerf, so you are scarfed or choice specs with 4 coverage moves

[proud gorge]

but still, the Gamefreak stall changes weren't necessary smh

[spice pecan]

scarf to outspeed regieleki

[proud gorge]

halving all recovery move PP while also massively cutting distribution

[spice pecan]

or lenses to ohko kyurem black

[frigid wedge]

pre sword and shield

sword and shield bricked the set

[spice pecan]

that would be gen 7

[proud gorge]

that doesn't kill stall, but it limits it to pokemon who didn't need recovery moves before

[frigid wedge]

it was mid gen

it mighta been 7

[proud gorge]

which is while suddenly Gliscor is hitting top spots

as is Alomomola

[elder marlin]

Scarf eleki

[spice pecan]

if it's gen 7 you're running waterium-z

[split maple]

Currently 11 folks in scssf have emperor mastery

[spice pecan]

if it's gen 8 you're choice item

[split maple]

That's what 20x less than mageblood

[frigid wedge]

i got curious once and got leki in doubles to 48k speed iirc

[proud gorge]

and why Regenerator is now broken

[spice pecan]

scarf eleki vs trick room

[elfin shale]

Isnt that the point where it loops and has 0 speed
Or does it only brick Trick Room

[spice pecan]

scarf regieleki and deoxys-speed can break trick room yes

[elder marlin]

I add agility baton and u cant stop me

[frigid wedge]

it was the point where it looped multiple times and still outsped everything

[elfin shale]

To be fair one of those only drops in Lab, how many people are gonna farm fuckin lab in SSF?

[frigid wedge]

ok but like, guess the actual set

[split maple]

It don't even drop in lab

[proud gorge]

to be fair, a lot of Magebloods come not from pure random T0 unique drops, but the many many Mageblood cards in the game

[elfin shale]

Doesnt it? Where's it from

[split maple]

Like I don't know a single person who Got it in lab

It's from valdos practically

Just check on trade how many are foiled

[eternal hill]

The lab empowered where traps are deadly is pretty reliable way to farm em

[spice pecan]

trick room just applies a -9900 x (speed) value to everything i think, jimothy did a video about it

[split maple]

Not anymore since 3.25 nerfs

[eternal hill]

forgot was it tribute or the other non gift offering

[spice pecan]

but trickroom is really only a doubles strategy and you're never running deoxys-s or eleki in doubles

[proud gorge]

the wiki claims that it drops rarely from the end of lab chests at Uber or higher

but yeah, it's a pretty rare drop even from that

[split maple]

You do tribute for spectrums, for emperor odds are still fucked

[kindred silo]

u def ran eleki in doubles

[spice pecan]

???????

why would i run something that learns nothing but single target electric moves

when i can get prankster twave elsewhere

[kindred silo]

it was electro web + protect + dmg

[proud gorge]

Electroweb

[spice pecan]

oh fuck you're right

wait do i have this shit on my gen 8 cart

[frigid wedge]

mythic i think ur gonna hate everything about my gren set, we got:

gunk shot
night slash
u turn
power up punch

banded phys gren

[spice pecan]

i actually do LMAO

[proud gorge]

also Trick Room does technically exist in singles, it's just very niche

[hard cliff]

about how much is an emperor mastery in trade keepers?

[spice pecan]

phys greninja is... cursed

[proud gorge]

we singles players tend to prefer weather over TR

[spice pecan]

but it honestly makes sense in singles

[frigid wedge]

if u run abnormal sets ppl tend to die to it a lot more

[spice pecan]

you bait the blissey/chansey switchin i guess

and then fucking blast it

surprised you aren't running SD with lum berry tho

[frigid wedge]

plus ur gonna switch in a special wall or a grass type and eat a 100 bp banded poison move

[elfin shale]

I should get back into pokemon

trying to recall my old team

Reuniclus Aegislash, Volcanion, no idea what else

[spice pecan]

yeah, weather's always been massive in both formats, but TR was really only a niche in singles

whereas TR in dubs is busted

[spice pecan]

volcanion is banned in VGC doubles due to being a mythical which sucks

[split maple]

90div and only 2 out of 27 on insta are non-foils

[frigid wedge]

teams saved on my phone rn

but this is barely anything compared to how many i had on my old phone

[frigid wedge]

proven by uh

untitled 76

[proud gorge]

I mean, it's not nothing, but uh

[spice pecan]

damn, you really need band there

[proud gorge]

potential 2hko on a surprise switch in

[pliant hamlet]

went to go cook when we were talking about aristocrat and quality gems, come back and it's all pokemon lol

[spice pecan]

vgc folder sadge

[frigid wedge]

how do i see my used teams for matches

[spice pecan]

i was running fucking palkia-origin

[pseudo axle]

damnit I'm missing two atlas points and I can't tell what they are

so annoying

[pliant hamlet]

you can check

[pseudo axle]

how?

[pliant hamlet]

go into your atlas points

at the bottom middle

there's a thing you can mouse over

[elfin shale]

BASED

[spice pecan]

more important point is you cant get sub/softboiled stalled

[proud gorge]

sure, but they're just switching back out

[spice pecan]

they also arent coming back in

[elfin shale]

I played UU Singles at the time iirc, its still my preferred format

[spice pecan]

they dont outspeed jack shit and will die to anything

[proud gorge]

eh, Chansey can easily come back in on half health

[spice pecan]

its not half hp tho

it's redbar

[proud gorge]

on a special attacker

no?

[pseudo axle]

specifically I can't tell what maps I'm missing, I'm at 113/115 atlas objective points, 9/11 maven, and 6/6 eldritch

[proud gorge]

The Chansey is at most taking one attack, on switch in

[pliant hamlet]

ah that

are you in a guild?

[proud gorge]

there's no pursuit on that Greninja

[pseudo axle]

are Vinktar and Machinarium still required?

[spice pecan]

doesn't matter, chansey doesn't have regenerator

[pseudo axle]

I thought they removed the requirement to finish those

[spice pecan]

it's redbar if it switches in on a phys move from that banded greninja

[proud gorge]

No, again, its strongest move deals like 50%

[pseudo axle]

do y'all have to talk pokemon here

[proud gorge]

and the only advantage you're getting there is surprise factor

[pseudo axle]

I'm not trying to be an ass but uh

[pliant hamlet]

do you have all of these maps done?

[frigid wedge]

ah yes

the most annoying thing i ever made

[proud gorge]

which isn't even that surprising, phys and mixed Greninja is pretty common

[pseudo axle]

wait I found them

[pliant hamlet]

you can dm "DM for discord help" in the future, if you see someone breaking rules & it bothers you

[proud gorge]

but yeah, getting 50% on a predicted surprise switch isn't nothing, it certainly helps a lot to make progress against the stall team

[pseudo axle]

how did I not do sepulchre or residence

[pliant hamlet]

and yeah talking off-topic in this channel is against the rules

[proud gorge]

fair

[pseudo axle]

I didn't want to escalate it to a mod because thats a bit extreme

we all go off-topic sometimes

[pliant hamlet]

That's fair, just letting you know 🙂

[frigid wedge]

the offtopic channel is having a diff conversation tho

[proud gorge]

On a more PoE-related note, I've been thinking about Magic the Gathering lmao

[frigid wedge]

so where are we going

[pseudo axle]

DMs exist

[split maple]

To that ice nova thread

[proud gorge]

specifically how Combo Deck builders and PoE players have a lot in common

[pseudo axle]

I tried to make a Path of Exile themed Archenemy mode

the notes are on my other computer

[spice pecan]

team is on cart and legit

[pliant hamlet]

The worst is when you do the map but you don't do the quest

[proud gorge]

there's like two kinds of combo players in Magic, those who build combo because it's a powerful and effective deck in the meta and they want to win, and those who build combo because they found some fun card interaction and want to build around it

[pliant hamlet]

like you do a rare t15 map

and you can't tell you didn't get teh quest lol

[proud gorge]

both those kinds of players play PoE

but they play it differently

[pseudo axle]

The archenemy pulls a random Atlas Boss and thats their commander.

[frigid wedge]

so blazar and everyone else

[spice pecan]

doesnt this just get straight swept by urshifu

[elfin shale]

Urshifu isnt real

[proud gorge]

the first kind of player plays builds because they're good, the second kind of player plays builds because they're weird, or use a weird interaction

[frigid wedge]

toxapex

[spice pecan]

as an urshifu player i agree

oh you're right

[proud gorge]

I'm definitely the second, I love a good weird-ass interaction driving a build

[pliant hamlet]

I play builds because they look pretty. Ngl That's the same thought process I'd have if I made commander decks lol

[frigid wedge]

i think I've hit 80 turn matches on that team

[proud gorge]

fair yeah, that's also definitely a factor

[split maple]

Idk I like my builds to be interesting but I also rly want them to be good at their jobs

[proud gorge]

I was mostly thinking about very specifically reasons why someone plays a combo deck specifically

[split maple]

Boring and good beats interesting for me

[pseudo axle]

The Archenemy also has their own unique Boss deck, with cards like:

War for the Atlas 3UUBB
Legendary Sorcery
Choose One:

• Choose a person from outside the game. They become allied with you, and take five additional extra turns immediately after this one.
• You gain control of target player.

[pliant hamlet]

I feel like every build can be good if you put enough investment into it. See the 20 mirror baron zombie build reddit post lol

[spice pecan]

me as a gen 2 enjoyer: "pathetic"

[proud gorge]

all my combo decks are built around weird-ass interactions then probably never actually get played because people don't really enjoy playing against combo that much

[pseudo axle]

I agree with your assessment

[spice pecan]

i should sell my EDH deck tbh

it's probably work like $5k usd

[split maple]

Trade everything works

[pliant hamlet]

ssf we're stuck with what's good + what we get 🙁

[pseudo axle]

ssf isnt real

[frigid wedge]

me as a uu enjoyer

[pliant hamlet]

I think I'd enjoy trade if they kept pushing the top end higher and higher

[brazen vector]

When does phrecia start

[frigid wedge]

29th

[pseudo axle]

if that deck has a mana crypt in it, I have bad news

[pliant hamlet]

atm there's no real content outside of deep delve that tests top-end builds

[brazen vector]

Ty

[pliant hamlet]

and deep delve is 500 fucking hours of grind to get there

[spice pecan]

nope, but 3 duals, yawgwill, survival of the fittest, etc

[pseudo axle]

I want a PoE themed universes beyond so badly

[spice pecan]

i really wish i liked singles outside of LC tbh

universes beyond is kinda what took me out of magic

[pseudo axle]

Absolute slop franchises get to be in MTG now, give me some Shaper in there

[pliant hamlet]

Ubers feel really tough in ssf. Ubers in trade are like "So my 100d ice trap build insta-kills 6-man ubers" or "my mb + 10d build is immortal" lol

[fickle glen]

What does that look like?

[pulsar dune]

How rare is woespike lel?

[pseudo axle]

archenemy-themed commander set

[spice pecan]

like universes beyond was a cool idea

[split maple]

Idk if you Play ssf Long enough you either build something that can oneshot ubers or you stop caring about their drops

[spice pecan]

but then i'm playing jace versus their fucking spongebob or spiderman

[pseudo axle]

thats what I would want it to be tbh

[split maple]

Common as fuck

[spice pecan]

and its like what the fuck is going on?

[proud gorge]

the problem with pushing the top end higher and higher is that if you put content tiers into the game, people really want to be able to run it, and will get frustrated if it's not runnable for them. Delve doesn't run into that problem because it's procedural and infinite, so nobody complains about not being able to push super deep delve being an issue with the game

this is why I think the toppest top end should be some sort of modifiers, rather than content tiers or something

[pliant hamlet]

I usually play until I beat ubers, 40/40, then stop playing. So the point I can comfortably kill all ubers is around the time I quit. I never reach the point of "I'ma start double corrupting nimis in ssf league" lol

[split maple]

Yeah I am mainly thinking Long enough as playing entire 4 months

That's enough time to justify specializing builds for content you care about

[pseudo axle]

Here's an idea: Have "overlevel" content that unlocks a new skill tree or something that you craft wholesale. But you can only use that "overlevel" tree in uber-hard content

[split maple]

Like my heralder can finally skip umaven memory games 😄

[pliant hamlet]

I just run out of goals, personally. Once I can do everything, I lose all motivation

[pseudo axle]

I hate maven memory game

[proud gorge]

UB is fine when they're setting-appropriate, stylistically matching, and well-designed as actual cards.

[hard cliff]

it's one of the worst mechanics in the game

[split maple]

I am kinda bad at finishing builds before league ends so that motivates me

And cba to do standard

[spice pecan]

i would kinda disagree, i am one of the biggest final fantasy fans in the world and i did NOT vibe with FF being in magic tbh

i play magic for magic

[pliant hamlet]

Fair, I like seeing a lot of builds. So I tend to play a large variety for the first few weeks, lock in on something strong, blitz through the last 15-20 challenges in like 3 days, kill all ubers, then stop playing

[spice pecan]

if i wanted final fantasy, id just go play that

[potent horizon]

relatable i for some reaons get just enough div to make a new build hit 80-90 and restart its a problem

[proud gorge]

the problems with UB are: obtrusive card designs based around superheroes or bagels, poor card design, and them really trying hard to push every UB set and printing overpowered cards that they refuse to nerf

FF is the third one there

[nimble bay]

I cant wait to play behemoth

[pulsar dune]

Noice

[pliant hamlet]

I don't play MTG, but FF UB looks like a un set

[proud gorge]

but yeah, the other problem is just that it's an increasing sign of aggressive monetization

[split maple]

I kinda need to reconsider my mindset at some point, like week2 I was like "league is kinda mid lets take it easy" and now I am crafting bloody adorned jewels 😄

[proud gorge]

and pushing aggressive monetization over, like, anything and everything else

[pliant hamlet]

bruh you're an insane man; I farmed adorned ONCE. NEver again. That is so awful lol

Farming synth jewels is just awful

[split maple]

Got 100% on second pull

So now I am forced to

[pliant hamlet]

It's not even the adorned

it's the damn synth jewels to make it worth it

[split maple]

Morigans are the issue yea

Rolling crit multi on vivids aint that bad

[proud gorge]

the Avatar set is pretty fun, stylistically alright, and has good and thematic card designs while not being overpowered, but it's also at the same time a further indication of the increasing commercialization of Magic, an already heavily commercialized game

[pliant hamlet]

I was str/int stacking so I just went for str

but still, it wasn't fun lol

[split maple]

Tedious af agreed 😄

Tho currently I feel like melding and ES lom are burning me out more

[pliant hamlet]

iirc I hit a 138

[split maple]

I keep pulling evasion looms like they are free

[pliant hamlet]

yeah though hitting a 100% is nuts now

I'd def force adorned in every build Lol

[proud gorge]

that reminds me

[brazen vector]

Best one I got was a 150 during affliction

[proud gorge]

did you hear 150% Adorned is in PoE2

just, like, completely unchanged 150% Adorned

[pliant hamlet]

tbf less jewels there and no synth i think?

probably insanely op, but it's early in the games life

it's probably fine?

[proud gorge]

still, it's wild

the issue with Adorned was it just giving so much generic power that every build shoved it in, reducing endgame build complexity heavily

[split maple]

Funny how they repeating all the poe1 mistakes

[proud gorge]

and they went "what if we introduced this in the pre-release alpha of PoE2"

[split maple]

History repeats as farce etc etc

[proud gorge]

They're repeating all the mistakes but faster

[tranquil sedge]

because there's nobody to keep them in check lol

tencent is hands off as long as it makes money

[proud gorge]

And they call PoE2 a slower game lmao

[tranquil sedge]

supporter packs will sell if they hype launches enough

so nothing else matters long term, as long as they get returning players league after league

in-league retention doesn't matter, long-term balance doesn't matter, nothing

[hard cliff]

how tf does tencent matter in a balance discussion

[tranquil sedge]

ggg is wholly owned by tencent

[proud gorge]

I don't think they have any real input into PoE1 either

[tranquil sedge]

game directors have final say on the game only second to tencent in that regard

[hard cliff]

I don't think a 6 billion dollar company that owns 40% of all gaming is going to be sending a guy down to New Zealand to tell them how to balance the adorned

[tranquil sedge]

tencent is hands off as long as it makes money

one balance chance is not going to make or break anything
im saying its a pattern lol

[proud gorge]

Like, the PoE1 holding back was primarily by the community rioting, not Tencent

[split maple]

They rly should prioritize that

[tranquil sedge]

i mean coming from rs3 this game feels exactly the same in one regard yknow

[hard cliff]

I can put up like $500 you cover the rest and we'll buy Path of Exile 2

[tranquil sedge]

its a constant struggle from players' side to try and stop the devs butchering their own game

only an endless, relentless barrage of feedback and criticism holds it at bay

[proud gorge]

OSRS is also built on player rioting

[split maple]

You rich fuck, okay I am adding 499$ to the pool

[tranquil sedge]

it doesn't mean players are some great font of ideas, not in the slightest, there's as many idiot takes as decent takes

but w/o nonstop complaints from player side this game woud suck

[tranquil sedge]

yep

osrs players have a decent game compared to rs3 players coz they will really do what they threaten to lol

osrs players will legitimately quit in droves if they need to

[tranquil sedge]

i will add two bananas and a cupcake

i can stretch it to 3 bananas at most

[split maple]

My wife will kill me

[tranquil sedge]

but basically my original point was poe2 repeats poe1 mistakes constantly only because nobody is there to tell jonathan 'no'

and it doesn't impact their bottom line for now even if they make them

so it'll continue to happen until such a time

[haughty gale]

Are there any differences between the 3.27 and 3.26 trees? I dont remember and wanna theory craft

[proud gorge]

I mean, first they'll yell in Falador, and that's usually enough

[tranquil sedge]

lmao

[split maple]

Check patchnotes

[tranquil sedge]

get out your dwarf cannons

[split maple]

But a few

[tranquil sedge]

upvote reddit thread to r/all

[split maple]

Mostly topside iirc?

[tranquil sedge]

why not just view the updated tree in pob 😮

[split maple]

Just copy ascendancy text to custom config and use 3.27 tree

[tranquil sedge]

if ur gonna theorycraft surely ur using pob

[split maple]

Coz you cannot have at same time 3.27 tree + bloodlines and Phrecia ascends

[tranquil sedge]

oh

[split maple]

They baked into tree version

[tranquil sedge]

i see

[proud gorge]

PoB has a handy feature where it'll automatically convert old patch trees into the newest patch

[tranquil sedge]

could use 3.27 and manually type ascendency configs in maybe

[proud gorge]

And tell you if that would break for some reason

But yeah, gotta use the old Phrecia ascendancy lines

[haughty gale]

because alternate ascendancies

[proud gorge]

I think there were custom Watcher's Eyes with phrecia ascendancy mods in the implicits lmao

[tranquil sedge]

ye i getchu ^

[tranquil sedge]

yep 😄

[hard cliff]

Do you guys think the majority of players in Path of Exile 2 are veterans from the first game or did they pull in the player base kind of independent from us?

[dreamy charm]

both

[proud gorge]

Little bit of both yeah

[pulsar dune]

Probably independent

[dreamy charm]

buddy from work only plays 2k(sports games) i got him to try poe2 thought it was good

[proud gorge]

But yeah, PoE2 definitely has a much broader mainstream fanbase

[haughty gale]

I think a lot of new guys tried it but less and less are coming back if you go by retention

or maybe the leagues were just bad idk

[tranquil sedge]

lotta new folks for sure

they sold a hell of a lot of copies of early access

[proud gorge]

I do find it funny that they didn't actually do a league reset in Druids

[stoic vigil]

when can we expect patch notes?

[tranquil sedge]

no idea 🤞

[haughty gale]

who knows...

[pulsar dune]

Ooh, mana RF whisperer has 4 nodes

That's a funny one

[proud gorge]

How long do you think they'll be putting off the league reset to avoid alienating the many players who insist that if they do a league reset they're quitting?

[tranquil sedge]

they've got good retention for now, don't compare it to 0.1 though

0.1 was an abnormal situation, expected to be inflated from new launch numbers

[haughty gale]

pretty sure each new patch has worse retention than the previous

[tranquil sedge]

peak concurrency is not same as retention

[proud gorge]

Like, they've got to do a reset at some point, right?

[tranquil sedge]

which reset

u mean current league?

[proud gorge]

The league reset yeah, since apparently they didn't do a reset for the current league

[tranquil sedge]

they won't

they can't

not anymore

too many mistakes, their economy is well fucked
just have to ride it out now

to next league

[frigid wedge]

wdym reset

[proud gorge]

No I mean like

[frigid wedge]

oh i see

nvm

[proud gorge]

Apparently people could just play their same characters and such into Druids

It wasn't actually a new fresh start league

[tranquil sedge]

tf wat

[split pagoda]

theres no way lol

i dont believe that

[tranquil sedge]

^ srsly wat

[elfin shale]

Thats not true

Thats just nonsense

Fate of The Vaal is a normal league

[split maple]

A lot of newbs played standard

Idk if they even noticed that they are doing that

[proud gorge]

hmm, I don't actually play PoE2, but I saw a bunch of posts saying stuff like "oh you don't actually have to build a new character in Last of the Druids, respect your time and just play your previous characters" and people responding like "okay but it's only a one time thing, the next time it's going to be a real reset"

but maybe that was all bullshit

[split maple]

Folks doing standard ye

[proud gorge]

maybe people were just playing in Standard yeah

[hard cliff]

I know it's my own fault for going to Reddit but I can't get over how they're whining and complaining about the new league before it even comes out

[split maple]

Real reset being 1.0 introducing New standard

Wiping ea one

Tho I think ggg Will have to backtrack on that

[sleek barn]

yknow what be pretty funny

[cobalt blade]

i mean they risk burning people out if they extend it until league start lmfao

[sleek barn]

one league everyone should just get on standard on league launch instead of league

GGG won't know what hit em

obviously its impossible to coordinate the entire playerbase

but it'd be funny

[gritty garnet]

a brand new league that deletes all the ascendancy instead of replacing them

[cobalt blade]

it would be really funny if this crashes their servers from the sheer amount of tabs being loaded

[proud gorge]

that would require a league mechanic so incredibly shitty that people just go play Standard to avoid the league mechanic

[haughty gale]

I mean keepers was halfways there kek

[sleek barn]

true i haven't even considered that

[proud gorge]

oh god, I've just had a terrible thought

[tranquil sedge]

yea
-# tho that was less bad league mechanic and more combination of just lack of things to do, endgame nerfs and also people quitting to poe2 because that launched just one month after poe1

-# not that im saying the league mechanic was good, it was not

[proud gorge]

can you imagine GGG trying to "rework" the Labyrinth

[gritty garnet]

descendancy: champions

[tranquil sedge]

no please don't

just let it be as is

[proud gorge]

Lab is honestly one of the best pieces of content in the game

[tranquil sedge]

they are not capable of making it better

[proud gorge]

super well designed

[haughty gale]

The walls are the biggest thing for me, defense in general

[cobalt blade]

will ssy even with an extremely shit mechanic most would still play the league for fresh start

[tranquil sedge]

ye im not saying its good

but im saying it was a bunch of crap all at once causing 3.27 to fail

[haughty gale]

they kept yammering on about how they want to preserve breach being circle over and over

[cobalt blade]

labyrinth but its all golden doors with heist door open timers

[gritty epoch]

If it's working don't "fix" it - to ppl asking for reworks unnecessarily

[haughty gale]

and then they added that sht

[tranquil sedge]

LOL

turns out people like circle

[haughty gale]

contradicting everything they said

[tranquil sedge]

gee golly

[proud gorge]

yeah, like I said, it would have to be worse than bad, it would have to be bad and also intrusive

[tranquil sedge]

who coulda guessed that

[sleek barn]

bring back old lab

that took 30 minutes to complete

[proud gorge]

something terrible to experience that also annoyingly forces its way into every single campaign zone

[cobalt blade]

even intrusive people would prob still play the league lmao

[proud gorge]

Maze League

[gritty garnet]

steal your ascendancy points and if you drop them on the way back izaro points and laughs

[haughty gale]

If they just didnt add the defense keepers would've been gold for me (with maybe slight loot buffs for the mechanic)

[proud gorge]

in which every zone is replaced by a giant maze

[haughty gale]

again, keepers

[proud gorge]

and you have to find and kill the zone boss in order to leave

[tranquil sedge]

-# so poe2

[haughty gale]

oof

[proud gorge]

but when you arrive at the zone boss, it's encased in a giant crystal

and you activate it to begin a tower defense game

in which all the enemies in the map slowly walk towards the crystal

[gritty epoch]

Turns out ppl don't like waiting in a fast pace arpg, imagine some similar league where they could have learned this like heist

[sleek barn]

mfw all mechanics in one mechanic

[haughty gale]

sounds like you are describing keepers but poe2

[gritty garnet]

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Standard/Yp9eE8akhY

[sleek barn]

i don't like reading in my fast paced rpg either

but i gotta for altars

[proud gorge]

and every time you beat a rare monster you get a crystal heart, that you have to assemble onto the boss crystal to build a maze

[haughty gale]

I mean dont HAVE to, you just really ought to xd

[proud gorge]

and then you enter the maze to find the boss soul

[sleek barn]

i really do oughta

[proud gorge]

with each room of the maze getting harder

[haughty gale]

now youre getting into kalandra

[proud gorge]

with no additional reward

[spice pecan]

why are we cooking metamorph 2.0

can we not

[sleek barn]

put this into your own game

and become game dev!

[proud gorge]

it's my brilliant new league idea, Path of Essence Blight Kalandra Metamorph Keepers

[sleek barn]

the maze building reminds me more of synthesis

[proud gorge]

a bit yeah, though since it's a mini-maze I was more envisioning Kalandra

[sleek barn]

i skipped kalandra

good thing i suppose

[haughty gale]

metamorph at least dropped loot iirc

[proud gorge]

oh yeah, don't forget having to plant and grow the boss souls in a dedicated tile-based garden

[sleek barn]

yeah after clicking 50000 times on random ass organs

and not getting an eye

[haughty gale]

this is what inspired necropolis

[proud gorge]

you have to buy the Garden Structures to upkeep your garden, which drop randomly rolled and you can't modify them so you have to buy them on trade one by one

I call it Harvest Necropolis Idols

[haughty gale]

dont forget to add gold upkeep

[proud gorge]

oh good point yeah

Harvest Necropolis Idol Settlers

[pulsar dune]

Don't forget 1c pokeballs for your garden structures

[split maple]

I would play that

[tranquil sedge]

but you can't run it yourself directly

you have to use employees at kingsmarch to do it

twenty tiers of workers

and there's a 10% chance of losing a worker every map

and also they're unionized so you have to gear them yourself like mercenaries

[split maple]

give them party quant bonus and we rolling

[fickle glen]

Hey is it possible to copy an item’s design (looks) on to another item in this game? @split maple

[tranquil sedge]

skin transfer

[split maple]

skin transfer mtx

[spice pecan]

^

[split maple]

but yeah no need to tag me, srev knows too

[tranquil sedge]

^ its a consumable mtx

so u pay for each transfer

[fickle glen]

Ok sorry esm

[proud gorge]

and of course, the final and third part of my brilliant new league, once you've grown the boss souls into Soul Crystals, you can use those crystals to engage in side content, in which you have to hire a bunch of randomly rolled "dungeoneers" to help you enter the Soul Dungeon, an infinite dungeon that costs increasingly more soul crystals to engage with, while you direct your finnicky dungeoneers to activate gates that only they can unlock. Also if you kill enemies you lower your "soul score", which causes you to get kicked out of the dungeon if it hits 0, and if you take damage you also lower your soul score.

[split maple]

how do i not even need to hover pogott to know its piragon

[proud gorge]

The dungeon is also chock full of super hasted rares that blink onto you

[hard cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/slide-gif-18108757

[tranquil sedge]

whatever ur on yewchung must be some good stuff

pass it round

[proud gorge]

you know, just to make the mechanic where you lose score whenever you take damage more "fair"

[tranquil sedge]

do we get a death recap at least

[proud gorge]

lmao

[split maple]

you died to 3 points of fire damage

from where? fuck you thats from where

[tranquil sedge]

wow ty

[proud gorge]

nah, a true death recap says you died to 65% damage from unknown

[potent horizon]

if im tryna get rich what should i do, keep doing harvest or should i swap to something else i have 4 div to invest

[proud gorge]

harvest is alright for early currency yeah, decently consistent

[pulsar dune]

If you have the brainworms for it, beasts are really good

[tranquil sedge]

do whatever you like lol

[gritty epoch]

"What killed me?"
Lack of more DPS

[tranquil sedge]

literally aynthing you do is gonna print 10d/hr or more in t16 maps

[pulsar dune]

Just got learn what they look like

[tranquil sedge]

so do literally whatever you want

if u wanna harvest keep at it

[proud gorge]

well, I mean

[potent horizon]

it just feels bad when you load into your juiced harvest and its like two blue and two purple no other plants

[tranquil sedge]

okay so don't run crop rota then

run cornucopia

[potent horizon]

interesting

[gritty epoch]

Do regular non rotation harvest at t16.5

[proud gorge]

there's some things that are actually bad to run, but those are pretty niche and specific

[gritty epoch]

Doubling and fragments

[tranquil sedge]

if u can do cornucopia harvests in t17 maps thats anywhere from 20-30d/hr in pretty much any league i'd bet lol

[potent horizon]

yall are cooking

[gritty epoch]

The trick is to do it as fast as possible

[tranquil sedge]

in 8mod t16s lower that to maybe 10-20d/hr

[potent horizon]

ive been blinded by the crop roation gamba

far too long

[tranquil sedge]

t16.5 somewhere inbetween

[sleek barn]

well this league its considerably lower

[tranquil sedge]

well it depends lol on prices

[split maple]

what is the second worst map layout to get in thread and why it is academy

[tranquil sedge]

if yellow is drastically better than purple or blue then you do crop rota if u can stomach it

[gritty epoch]

Fubgun happened to harvest profit

[tranquil sedge]

but if yellow is just 'better' than other prices consider non-rota too

[potent horizon]

i was considering to just run harbinger for shards and just do it over and over until i get mirror shard

[sleek barn]

yellow is drastically better unfortunately

crop rota is fun though

[tranquil sedge]

okay what kinda ratio we mean here

[pulsar dune]

1:5ish

[split maple]

if you want to run smh until mirror do containtment

[tranquil sedge]

like if yellow is 1/3 price of blue or purple i'd still be willing to run cornucopia

[proud gorge]

you're not going to make a whole lot of money running, like, pure Harbingers

[tranquil sedge]

or even 1/4 if i really hated rota

[sleek barn]

lak said 1:5

[tranquil sedge]

damn

[sleek barn]

which is funny

[proud gorge]

it's not nothing, but it's not exactly amazing income

[pulsar dune]

Harbingers kinda break even in most leagues

Well, shard harbies

[tranquil sedge]

idk about this league but harby should profit in general

[sleek barn]

harbingers are infinitely more boring than harvest id say

[tranquil sedge]

its just not great profit

but u better be willing to run enough maps

[gritty epoch]

The trick is efficiency sir

[tranquil sedge]

to even out rng on frac orb

[sleek barn]

frac orbs aren't much this league no?

[split maple]

wdym you dont like watching blue bois slowly spawning mobs for 5 minutes

[sleek barn]

if i wanted to watch blue bois i would go watch the Blue Man Group

[hexed mountain]

Its solid xp and very safe tho

[potent horizon]

i like harb beyond for xp its been fun and harvest has always been my go to as this is my first league its paid for a few builds

but the greed is setting in i need more

[gritty epoch]

Prepare 100 maps and scarabs, run it as fast as possible, dump into stash, next map, repeat for hours

[sleek barn]

harbingers

[tranquil sedge]

my usual moneymakers in any league:

• harvest (both crop rota and cornucopia methods, depends on league)
• 5x cloister scarab farming with ritual (for additional respawns = more decks) and selling stacked decks (requires a little tankiness/block to survive the spawns, and phasing helps a lot with their prox shields)
• elder maven rotas - buy elder map sets in bulk, then run them and do maven invitation every 4 maps - sell elder frags as sets, maven chisels, conflict orbs, maven's writs, etc.
• early league (week 1-3) expedition running logbooks - buy tujen (black scythe) books in bulk and run them for artifacts + coinage, gamble at tujen, sell resulting loot

anywhere from 5-30d/hr or more doing these methods depending on league economy, map tier, investment/juice and build strength+clear speed, but a casual 10d/hr in t16s is definitely achieveable with any of those methods imo

[sleek barn]

ho my bejesus

srev what is your wpm

[proud gorge]

personally I don't tend to fast map blast, but that's probably why I don't make all that much money

[tranquil sedge]

depends are we counting copy paste

[sleek barn]

no

oh thats copy paste

[tranquil sedge]

[proud gorge]

that's copy/pasted from an earlier convo yeah

[potent horizon]

i thought bro really cooked quick with the bullet points and all

[split maple]

srev making money is much simpler

like just drop a mirror

[sleek barn]

i thought you were a keyboard clacker

[proud gorge]

where I asked about money making methods

possibly it was also copy/pasted there

but that's the earliest I saw it

[tranquil sedge]

also:

• making and selling alva temples, do this in literally whatever map tier you want that supports the strat

[sleek barn]

easy for you to say with your 100% adorned

[gritty epoch]

Also another point is pick something suitable to your builds
Eg you don't rush invitations if u are RF etc

[split maple]

everyone cares for my 100% adorned, no one gives a fuck about my 23% one

[tranquil sedge]

im aight at typing but that was jut a copy paste yep

[proud gorge]

side note, I gotta say, as much as people say challenges are easy this league, and I'm sure they are, I'm aggressively not a map blaster

[sleek barn]

what are you if not a map blaster

[proud gorge]

and a lot of these challenges require you to run a lot of maps

[sleek barn]

map enjoyer

the scenic route

[proud gorge]

I'm a map savourer

[tranquil sedge]

he's a man who could use a +1 pc ring

[proud gorge]

I like to invest heavily into a map and then get all of my money's worth

[spice pecan]

t16 racecourse, cannot open hivebrain gland

[proud gorge]

I'm killing everything

[sleek barn]

alch and go supremacy

[tranquil sedge]

if u do that in t17s you'd be off to the bank

[dreamy charm]

missing two unique breach rings in ssf i gave up wanted to try that hearld stacking thingy

[split maple]

surely you dont have unvawering

[spice pecan]

maven has already witnessed racecourse

oh fuck

[proud gorge]

I have been yeah, with Containment T17s

[spice pecan]

i am actually using unwavering lmao

that'd be it

[proud gorge]

problem is my mapping speed is, like, one map every 10 minutes lmao

[sleek barn]

thats not bad

[proud gorge]

or slower

[sleek barn]

for a t17

[tranquil sedge]

if you get money to do what u want then its a win ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sleek barn]

most people have one map per infinite amount of minutes

[split maple]

given how ridiculusly slow boxes are

[sleek barn]

bc they don't reach t17s

[split maple]

i consider 6 maps a hour fast

[tranquil sedge]

nah its still pretty slow for 'just' t17, but for containment its understandable

[sleek barn]

hey my blight maps take like 14 minutes

[proud gorge]

10 minutes might be underestimating tbh

lmao

[tranquil sedge]

containment takes time

it is what it is

[proud gorge]

I haven't timed myself

[sleek barn]

i haven't done containment in a while

[proud gorge]

eh, it can be faster

[tranquil sedge]

try not doing a slow strat for a change then

[potent horizon]

i watched a strongbox video a few weeks back went into grave trough hit four 5 div cards and chased that high for a week and quit strongboxes

[proud gorge]

I used to think that you couldn't have two boxes opening at once

[tranquil sedge]

like just power through t17s for boss frags instead

[split maple]

do i try to force that 4shaper on my heralder

[tranquil sedge]

they add up real fast

pick good layout - ziggurat or abom - and go nuts

[proud gorge]

but then I discovered that yeah, you can activate multiple boxes at once

[sleek barn]

sanctuary is the choice for frags rn no?

[tranquil sedge]

is it?

[proud gorge]

I think I tried activating a second box but accidentally clicked the first box again

[tranquil sedge]

idk the math on the new boss frags

i only know based on the 'old' uber frags

zigg > abom > rest

[proud gorge]

so it gave me the "this strongbox is locked" message

which I assumed to mean that you can only be opening one box at a time

so I was doing very slow containments lmao

[tranquil sedge]

nah there's no way sanc is better than zigg

not based on that list

[proud gorge]

honestly I should do more boss rushing

my builds trend towards "tanky and good at bossing"

[sleek barn]

yeah you're right

idk where i heard sanctuary from

[tranquil sedge]

dark seers

[proud gorge]

what do you even roll T17s for to boss rush

[tranquil sedge]

quant

[proud gorge]

just pure quant? Makes sense

[tranquil sedge]

just roll acceptable quant and dont overthink

i run it with harvest so i also roll for packsize

but if ur rushing boss then its just quant mainly

and scarabs would be things like risks and uber atziri frags i guess

[sleek barn]

that makes sense too

doesn't really matter for me bc i just do fortress and call it day

[tranquil sedge]

t17 map prices
sanctuary is high coz of dark seer
fortress is high coz of easy boss + barrels
zigg should be high but catarina is hard to kill so its (relative to its frags) cheap
same for abom, boss is hard, so its a bit cheap too
citadel well thats just an ass map so its cheap (but not as much as it should be, its still 'a t17')

thats from wat i remember in 3.26
maybe prices changed in 3.27

[proud gorge]

Fortress is easily the highest

I saw Fortress hit 80 at one point

though that was probably because someone bought up all the supply

Sanctuary is actually ridiculously low

[tranquil sedge]

i think its hard to buy up map supply

[proud gorge]

Fortress usually realistically hovers around the 40-60 range

[kindred silo]

zigg is also a long boss

[tranquil sedge]

true

[kindred silo]

abom has an ass layout so its only really good for boss rush

[proud gorge]

Sanctuary is cheap af

how common is Dark Seer lmao

it doesn't seem that expensive

[kindred silo]

sanctuary generally just has the best layout and decent frags

[tranquil sedge]

there's money to be made in t17 map flipping if you're smart about it

• single vs bulk prices (trade site vs TFT)
• div to chaos ratio advantage seeking - people price bulk maps in both divs and in chaos, and single traders on site are in chaos, sometimes you find nutty deals

sanctuary generally just has the best layout
naaaa ziggurat layout is the cleanest

sanctuary ain't bad but its not even close to the clean rectangle of zigg

[kindred silo]

for stuff like wanders its the best

[tranquil sedge]

oh

okay

[kindred silo]

since its the most open

[cobalt blade]

sanctuarys also better for shit like legions

[proud gorge]

Sanctuary boss rushing worth?

[tranquil sedge]

do ppl not just prefer running t16.5 for that

[kindred silo]

ehh

[cobalt blade]

not really

[tranquil sedge]

8mod t16.5 dunes or stuff?

[kindred silo]

not as good as abom

[proud gorge]

the problem is I don't like methods that output non-currency fungible rewards

[kindred silo]

or zig if u have a mid build

[proud gorge]

especially late league

[tranquil sedge]

if ur rushing boss just do zigg > abom

depending on your build

[kindred silo]

abom is best if u can just insta kill the boss

[cobalt blade]

I think its done when you don't wanna deal with getting 8 mods lol

[gritty garnet]

yeah if you like chaining off walls you'll love abom

[tranquil sedge]

citadel woud be good per-map profit if u wanted to boss rush

but like...its citadel layout

your maps/hr are gonna not be that high and the boss is phased/slow

[gritty garnet]

citadel is pretty poop with all the gaps you think your movement skill will traverse

[cobalt blade]

abom is best if your playing dd for some reason still

[split maple]

okay shaper adding both crit and caster mods to ring pool is just pure troll

[kindred silo]

isnt citadel ass frags

[gritty garnet]

but they'll just stop halfway

[kindred silo]

like second worst frags

[cobalt blade]

citadel boss rush where you twist of fate to not run citadel

[tranquil sedge]

cosmic and decaying aren't terrible frags

[kindred silo]

ya it is second worst

[proud gorge]

I ran Citadel for my first T17 completion to unlock the slot, and man that map is ass. Like, the gaps aren't bad, but the boss is just painful

so much waiting

[cobalt blade]

So much action speed down

[tranquil sedge]

reality > decaying > devouring > blazing > cosmic > awakening/synthesizing

correct?

[kindred silo]

like boss rushing is carried by realty and devouring usually

[cobalt blade]

afaik devo is still higher than decay

[tranquil sedge]

rly o.o

[cobalt blade]

and you forgot cosmic

[tranquil sedge]

added it

[tranquil sedge]

ok i was off on this u right

whats the prices on the new 3 uber frags

where do those fall in

[cobalt blade]

but ye zigg is by far best with the tertiary drop chance for reverent

reverent worth smth because of feared

[tranquil sedge]

and how are they dropped

its base uber frags dropped first then you get one guaranteed new boss frag right?

[cobalt blade]

Rest kinda mid priced around bbd farming

[kindred silo]

trauma is like okay (around sirus) other 2 are 1c

[pulsar dune]

loneliness and trauma is awful, rememberance is up there

[kindred silo]

oh its rememberance thats worth its something

[pulsar dune]

yea, that's the one in feared

[cobalt blade]

its entirely priced around feared

[proud gorge]

Reality is over twice as high as the next highest, so it's basically required to be in contention

[pulsar dune]

IG same as usirus

[tranquil sedge]

yep uber maven goes hard

[pulsar dune]

since like, who tf actually farms usirus, there are no relevant drops there pretty much

[tranquil sedge]

and there is always demand

[cobalt blade]

its actually good profit when woke orbs reach 2-3+D

[tranquil sedge]

woke orbs and oriath's ends are large part of money

[cobalt blade]

since the frags are always giga underpriced for woke orb price from how few people wanna run it lmfao

[tranquil sedge]

^

you can run 20+ per hour or more

if ur willing to run it

[cobalt blade]

Yee

[tranquil sedge]

its pretty easy to mentally check out when doing it

if u want a break from mapping or something its aight

[cobalt blade]

Me doing that and dying to a ground degen because i stood on it for 15 seconds

[proud gorge]

oh man, Uber Sirus is like 15c to run

wild

[cobalt blade]

Ya compare it to woke orb priced with i think 15% drop chance?

15-20

[proud gorge]

it's got to be worth it, even if it drops almost nothing

[split maple]

like 20% ya

• dominanceys

at 10%

[cobalt blade]

Yee

[tranquil sedge]

uber sirus is always profitable yh

[tranquil sedge]

the frag prices balance with woke orb prices for the most part

like in phrecia it was like ~10-15c a frag towards the later part of the league
but i was also selling woke orbs at 7-8d each at the same time

[cobalt blade]

its often giga underpriced for them early league

first 2 weeks or so

[tranquil sedge]

and you drop oriath's ends + orbs of dominance that sell for a few div each pretty often

[cobalt blade]

admittedly prob diff in phrecia with faster end

[proud gorge]

maybe I should run a bunch, try to pick up a Saviour

[tranquil sedge]

and u 3:1 the massive threads of hope to divine them to perfect rolls (or at least good rolls) to sell those too

[cobalt blade]

i take the route of vaaling them all

pen/cb sells regardless of roll

[tranquil sedge]

[cobalt blade]

-10%'s I'll temple if bored though

[proud gorge]

this seems, uh, low

[tranquil sedge]

lmfao

deadge league

[cobalt blade]

cos its late in the league and thats considering shit roll lol

check week 1-2 prices

[tranquil sedge]

yea that too
and also demand ig

[proud gorge]

I'm sure it's high week 1-2, but I'm not playing in week 1-2 now am I

[cobalt blade]

D:

[tranquil sedge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1qj2fgs/does_anyone_else_feel_that_idols_are_too_random/

i read this LE post earlier
dunno how i feel about it

[proud gorge]

LE item farming is interesting, since all items drop ID'd, and the in-game loot filter lets you filter by mods

so you just set up a filter for the exact mods you need, then just drop a bazillion items until one passes the loot filter

[sleek barn]

unfortunately i don't think i'll ever touch LE

[cobalt blade]

you can kinda do this in poe 1 as well btw doing a cloak of tawmr isley farm

its funky

[kindred silo]

le is a good 5 years away from me touching it again

[proud gorge]

can the PoE loot filters filter by mods on item though?

[cobalt blade]

yes

Just items don't normally drop id'd

[proud gorge]

interesting

[cobalt blade]

neversink actually has a whole section for it

and a bunch of strongbox corrupted uniques are filtered by that section

[tranquil sedge]

i haven't played LE yet and i won't for at least several more cycles/leagues

but i think from wat friends tell me from playing it there's a lotta stuff they need to fix

[cobalt blade]

er not uniques rares*

brain turned off lol

[tranquil sedge]

or they'll just be a niche and barely if at all profitable game

[proud gorge]

it's an interesting game, but I don't like how much of your build is determined by just high tier rare mods and nothing else

[tranquil sedge]

their progression and limits are really wacky

[proud gorge]

the "uniques" tend to also be very guideposted

[tranquil sedge]

yep

early on ur sped up fast with easymode crafting and gear, and lategame ur hunting for things with worse odds than poe unique droprates

[proud gorge]

I mostly meant that a lot of the uniques are just "makes skill X do Y"

[tawdry olive]

yea, once you're beyond LP1 legendaries is where the cracks really start to show with the game

[tranquil sedge]

^ i meant the LP system yea

[tawdry olive]

in terms of gearing, gameplay, everything

[tranquil sedge]

i agree with this too though

[pseudo axle]

LE is an interesting game that doesn't let you modify your power in enough ways to smooth over the cracks in the crafting system.

[tranquil sedge]

also the points brought up in this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1qj0fwq/whats_everyones_opinion_on_the_design_philosophy/

[thick goblet]

it's honestly an incredible ssf experience, it's always a really fun week but there's not much content past that
it is fun getting somewhat minmaxed gear in ssf

[pseudo axle]

LE is great as SSF imho.

[tranquil sedge]

it's always a really fun week
thats one of their problems yea, in the spirit of "accessibility" they made their core gameplay loop real short unless ur dedicated to grinding for tiny amounts at the end

[tawdry olive]

i like to call it blue ball balancing