1┃general

[worldly bridge]

mionion D:

my first build was a minion build

havent touched it since

too finicky

[fickle glen]

What do I need to do to level up my equipped Graft?

[lean urchin]

you make a new one from wombgifts

from breach events

[fickle glen]

That’s how I level it?

[worldly bridge]

for all intents and purposes, you cannot modify grafts

[lean urchin]

u can use implants for grafts

[worldly bridge]

you need to find higher level wombgifts to spawn higher level grafts

[fickle glen]

Where do I find that

[lean urchin]

from other wombgifts, lavish ones

[worldly bridge]

it wont "level" it

are you wanting to add more modifiers or get a better graft overall

[fickle glen]

Just thought I can level it up to increase its damage

[worldly bridge]

what do you mean by "level it up"

like a skill gem?

[fickle glen]

No, these arms have level on them

On their skill I mean

[worldly bridge]

that cannot be modified

you need to birth higher level grafts to increase that level

[lean urchin]

you get better grafts as you keep doing story

indirectly

[fickle glen]

It says level 17 on that, is that the highest it goes?

[ripe lichen]

Is there anywhere I can get help with awakened poe trade?
Edit: I don't know where this post goes

[lean urchin]

ye, it cant gain xp to level up. using implants later you can gain modifiers that increases its level though. not worth it this early

@fickle glen

[fickle glen]

Thanks

[worldly bridge]

what kind of help

[ripe lichen]

I just want to know if there's a command like ctrl+alt+D that lets me just move my mose to the next item like if I did the control, ald, d, command

I dont' know where to fidn taht

[lean urchin]

OMGOMG

<@&174997701513969665>

[dreamy charm]

mods

[thick goblet]

kai cenat pog

[shadow basalt]

It just wants me to take out like 4 points and put them into int for RF? Im new to this its on poe 1 I don't think there's a respec option

Doing a witch leveling guide? On maxroll

[lean urchin]

oh right, its for using fire spells until you can use RF

[ripe lichen]

No, it's a question for awakenedd poe trade commands

[worldly bridge]

you can do just control D

i think thats what youre looking for?

[hard cliff]

hell yeah

[worldly bridge]

i dont know if you can just keep the menu up and move your mouse

[hard cliff]

Max roll has good guides

should be fine

[shadow basalt]

I use it for diablo 4 but just got a pc so I can finally play poe. Im using the poe builder too. Only issue is I need respec points lol and only have 2

[thick goblet]

none of the npcs have a respec option?

[hard cliff]

npc let's you respec with gold

[lean urchin]

i think bestel does

[thick goblet]

isn't it like tarkleigh or bestel

[hard cliff]

should have plenty

[ripe lichen]

Yea I don't think this is the right place to ask this question

[shadow basalt]

I didnt see one in act 1 I can look again

[lavish oak]

Yeah the respec should be a menu option with one of the NPCs in lioneyes

[shadow basalt]

Okk

[ripe lichen]

I'm asking for a question in awakened and you guys are just talking about only the base game. I'll try to find my answer somewhere else. Thanks for doing your best though 🙂

[shadow basalt]

Found it! Thank youu

[ripe lichen]

I really appreicate it

[lean urchin]

"if there is a command" there is no ingame command that does that

[ripe lichen]

Yep

[lean urchin]

the answer to your question is no

[ripe lichen]

So I'm just asking about something that's not in this server

[lean urchin]

im answering your question about awawkened poe trade

[ripe lichen]

oh

Oh, ok

[worldly bridge]

yall

[ripe lichen]

I was doubting that there was a command/ability that did that but thats the answer I feared

[worldly bridge]

how do i filter by merchant tabs only

i thought the option was "buyout"

[lean urchin]

instant buyout is merchant tab only, no?

the other option needs like the dude to join you

[ripe lichen]

where did you find the answer no?

[worldly bridge]

theres no line for instant buyout on trade site

[lavish oak]

Top right you can filter by instant buyout or in person trade

[worldly bridge]

wait its at the top

yeah ty

[lean urchin]

i guessed, all streamers ive watched have never used this kind of option, they go 1 by one

and ive never heard this thing being suggested even

[lavish oak]

I've never seen a way to do the price checking in a way that you're saying. Not saying it doesn't exist but if a better way of doing it did exist someone would have created it by now

[elder marlin]

is there anywhere i can simulate heart of flame from molten xoph graft

[lavish oak]

Unfortunately I don't think POB supports them or will any time soon, there're probably a few custom mods you can enter that might simulate the buff though

[worldly bridge]

why is doryani's a challenge requirement and also 11d

😩

the mods cant be that good on it right

[silent leaf]

cause everyone wants to do it and no one has it

cause its like 10% droprate from delve boss lmao

[worldly bridge]

ughgguhguhg

i see

[silent leaf]

the 50 delve players

[worldly bridge]

making bank i suppose

[silent leaf]

are having a field day if they just organize who sells which first instead of fighting who sells first

[worldly bridge]

10% isnt bad

[silent leaf]

finding the actual delve boss is the cancer part tbf

[worldly bridge]

ahh isee

i never done much delve

i did a bit of it last league for challenge, never got into it

[elder marlin]

why is tender embrace(hardening uulgraft) not affected by runegraft of warp

while heart of flame(molten xophgraft) does

[meager ridge]

Is there currently a way to get an mtx by using a mirror?

[earnest raven]

Sort of

[warm forum]

You can use comprehensive scouting reports to try and get it thru kirac. Idk how much those are going for now tho

[earnest raven]

A lot of uniques have 3d art. Some are legacy and very sought after. Buying alt art for example can be bought with mirrors and turned into cosmetics. But traditionally, mtx from the store can only be bought with cash

[worldly bridge]

why comprehensive?

wouldnt you want to do singular for unique

OH OK THEN

first reroll??????

[umbral crag]

Doryani machi can only show up in comprehensive.

It is not part of singular pool of unique maps

[warm forum]

Yeah you would think that singular would roll machinariun since it's unique. Idk why but it only rolls on comprehensive

[worldly bridge]

well if anyone needs iti have four slots open

in map rn
ign: Dachi_Keeper_RF

[fickle glen]

Does spiritual aid perk increases my overall damage or just specific?

[lavish oak]

Nice luck, took me about 15 to get it, thankfully I had some left and didn't need to buy any. Much cheaper than buying the map outright

[worldly bridge]

i believe spiritual aid is generic damage yes

[signal herald]

Hi how much time left for kiracs vault?

[lavish oak]

There's still a bit under 2 months left in the league, plenty of time to get the vault pass done

If you need any help with specific maps you can most likely either ask in global 820 or 159, or even here in one of the help channels

[signal herald]

Ty alot

[normal elbow]

https://streamable.com/1mu9qv

???

[thick goblet]

you can also buy the vault pass after completing all 115/115 maps to make sure you dont waste your money

[thick goblet]

holy, congrats

[signal herald]

Ty alot

[wintry lily]

Tbf, 115 maps isnt that hard to achieve unless theres like

maybe 1 day left or you dont have the time

[normal elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/into-the-temple-we-go-albert-lin-national-geographic-lost-cities-with-albert-lin-investigating-an-ancient-temple-gif-23580569

[signal herald]

Oh I see

[wintry lily]

isnt that div card giga weighted in favor of the trash belts

[normal elbow]

Yeah ofc

[wintry lily]

pray you didnt just waste your entire life's luck on that

[normal elbow]

Poof

[wintry lily]

oof

[livid quarry]

shame lucky when dead leag

[normal elbow]

Doesn’t really matter if I just slam it in temple anyways

[wintry lily]

matters extra less when its dead league time either ways

[normal elbow]

I pulled a 6/20 multistrike from Cheater card today too

[wintry lily]

bwuh

some people just get all the luck

[livid quarry]

i realized awakened gem levels and quality dont really matter until ur build is like hundred of divs

like i bought a corrupted 9% awakened element attack gem for very cheap

and then the remaining divs i invested

was doing t16 8 mods wouldnt matter if it was 20% quality

hell cant evne tell the diff from non maxed level gems

[wintry lily]

most of them are just better %s

a few of them do just extra enough to be worth the price

[lavish oak]

The only thing you ever really want with awakened gems is the extra effect at level 5. Anything else is just PoB padding

[lean urchin]

its 5 supports tho, with 5 awakeneed supports that is a bit of a change

[wintry lily]

ye

5% is 5%

[worldly bridge]

always open your chests exiles

[steel light]

#ad

[worldly bridge]

can someone help me with a juicy boss

its triple ghosted and maven

idk what i was thinking

first death on 97

i was at like 97% too

i shouldve just scrapped it lakjsf;lkjef;l

[lavish oak]

Still need help to kill it?

[worldly bridge]

yea

if you can

ididnt have time to SS the ghosts

[lavish oak]

I'll come see what my scuffed build can do

[lavish oak]

I'm in the middle of gambling belts 1k ancients at a time

[worldly bridge]

god??

ill pay you back in however many ancients i have

been running harby

[lavish oak]

What a little bitch boy not giving up the loot -_-

[stray sedge]

it's on a payment plan rn because some lucky guy got multiple good ones in a row

[lavish oak]

Someone sapped all the ancient luck, nothing well overspending just to roll 1 belt won't fix

[silent leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/bleh-cat-blehh-cat-conswayo-yoyo-gif-2728106887809527143

[lavish oak]

100div gamble and all I saw was 5 ryslathas

[jagged raven]

finally bought it

[lavish oak]

Nice!

[jagged raven]

ty 😭

[lavish oak]

Uber maven gamble now, need to win back some dollarydoos

[opaque sphinx]

not sure why i never considered that u can maven chisel ravaged maps

idk how good it actually is but

how much is a triple split atm

wha da helly

oh nvm i typed wrong beast im a 4head

[visual stream]

uhm ggg still hadnt put the druid box to poe 1 yet right guys ?

[lavish oak]

Nope

[opaque sphinx]

u can't split them while annointed right

[split maple]

right, coz enchanted items cannot be split

[opaque sphinx]

true ty

[visual stream]

so much for free box

[opaque sphinx]

100% waste of chisels but it was funny

[lavish oak]

The box still is on your account, just can't redeem on poe 1 yet. You can check on the website or in poe 2

[hard cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-cat-shy-gif-11222406

[candid hamlet]

Hey I'm playing Poe 1 for the first time, what class should I play

I have been playing Poe 2 since it came out

[gritty epoch]

What seem fun to you, u could look at videos

[lavish oak]

Poe 1 is less about classes and more about skills

That you find interesting or like the look of

then you build around that

[candid hamlet]

Well when I play Poe 2 I enjoy the build that have crazy map clear and cover my screen, is there something you recommend that would give me that feel

[hard cliff]

yes

we got a lot of that

way more than poe 2

[gritty epoch]

Yes

[lavish oak]

Yeah almost everything in poe1 can scale to insane map clear. Even into the hundreds of projectiles

One of these impossible escapes better roll big because I'm coming up empty right now -_-

[gritty epoch]

If you want zoom don't do RF tho, before someone recommends RF

[candid hamlet]

What website would y'all recommend for build guides, I noticed mobalytics doesn't have a Poe 1 tab

[thick goblet]

check out maxroll's collection of league starters
they all have respective videos you can watch to see gameplay and pick whatever looks cool (except glacial cascade)

!guides

[covert swan]

A short list of places to find builds for new players:

Maxroll.GG's leaguestarter buildguide section has high quality build guides

If you are more into video guides, a playlist by the youtuber Zizaran, he also has a bunch of other video guides for new players.

A collection of minion build guides created/ curated by GhazzyTV

You can also always find popular builds on the Builds section of Poe.ninja, but those aren't really guides, just snapshots of live player builds without any explanation for what makes them good or not good.

[candid hamlet]

Ah okay thank you

[gritty epoch]

Maxroll but before you start show us the build to know if it's bait

[lavish oak]

Moba definitely does https://mobalytics.gg/poe

[candid hamlet]

https://maxroll.gg/poe/build-guides/ice-shot-of-penetration-miner-deadeye-league-starter

This one looks cool

[silent leaf]

be prepared to get oneshotted

[candid hamlet]

What do you mean 🙏🏾

[silent leaf]

the class deadeye, is known to be the most brittle and "oneshotted" class

just a heads up

[candid hamlet]

Ahh I see

[silent leaf]

its a glass cannon class

[lavish oak]

Deadeye can do tons of damage and have plenty of screen wide clear but your only real defence is killing things before they kill you

[silent leaf]

p much yea glass cannon

you hit like a cannon, get stung by a mosquito and you are likely dead

a scrape from a random 1mm arrow and you die

[gritty epoch]

U could do some kind of wander if u want giga clear https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FRap20bTnYY

[silent leaf]

i really wouldn't recommend a wander build beyond anything else to a new player

[gritty epoch]

Sure

[silent leaf]

esp one with involuntary SSF trade market

[opaque sphinx]

someone esplain me why silver and gold oils are like same price

[candid hamlet]

https://maxroll.gg/poe/build-guides/league-starter/cyclone-elementalist-league-starter

What about this

[gritty epoch]

NO

[split maple]

kboc needs tree and thats pretty much it

[silent leaf]

HAHAHAHAH

[split maple]

and hour of lab

[silent leaf]

theres 8 indigons

in xbox

[candid hamlet]

Why not

[silent leaf]

[split maple]

indigon is easy to farm

and before it mind of council is decent

[silent leaf]

for a new player

with

mapping build

KB

[split maple]

i mean it still wands so complicated

but gearing is easy as fuck

and like single target is rly not an issue with kboc

[gritty epoch]

its not a great build especially for a leaguestarter, also need to be in close range

[candid hamlet]

Ah okay

[gritty epoch]

i'd rather he play kboc than cyclone

[silent leaf]

anything with the word cyclone

is bait for 80% of the playerbase i imagine

[candid hamlet]

https://maxroll.gg/poe/build-guides/reap-ignite-elementalist-league-starter

[gritty epoch]

unless its coc

[candid hamlet]

This one?

[silent leaf]

yea thats kinda fine for new player

[gritty epoch]

should be good

[candid hamlet]

Cool looks like I'm doing reap, well I actually gotta let the game finish installing 🙏🏾

I'll be in keepers if the flame VC if anyone would like to watch my experience 🤞🏾

[lavish oak]

The one thing you might find hard to adjust to is the lack of wasd movement

[candid hamlet]

I play on controller 😭

[lavish oak]

Poe 1 has even less overall controller support so that might be a little gross

[elfin shale]

Playing is fine but picking up items is horrific

[opaque sphinx]

hot

[proud gorge]

interesting, according to PoB, I actually gain DPS by removing Awakened Deadly Ailments in my poison FRoSS build

since it does increase the damage per poison, but the 80% less hit damage is apparently more damage than the gain from poison

oh wait, that's entirely because of DoT cap, nvm

well, that's still sort of a damage increase up to DoT cap, at least

it's just that, yeah, at DoT cap either way, Deadly Ailments removes most of the hit portion while providing basically no increase to the DoT portion since it's already capped

[tranquil sedge]

what config are you on

ubers have 70% less damage reduction, for example

or if you're doing deli or toughness content, that's also damage reduction

'dot cap' is too vague without specifying conditions 😛

[proud gorge]

I mean, I was just on the default config, which defaults to non-uber Pinnacles, I just forgot that DoT cap existed and was wondering why a lot of my passive swaps and tests weren't particularly changing the Full DPS

lmao

[tranquil sedge]

ah

[cobalt blade]

do remember thatll itll reduce the ramp time to dot cap for poison getting more dmg

[stiff coral]

what a tragic turn of events poe 2 failing and still getting patched while poe 1 gets thrown a bone and ignored after tragic fate

[tranquil sedge]

just play something else until feb/march 3.28

[stiff coral]

xdd like breach league lasted more than a week

[tranquil sedge]

3.28's been the biggest failure since the past ~20 leagues ish i think
in terms of player retention

pic from some days ago

its even lower now

lemme get an updated one its honestly so fucking funny

[stiff coral]

ive been playing 10 years and ive never ever played a league for less than a week i dont think not even kalandra

[tranquil sedge]

this is past 20 leagues' data

look at how fucking far down that blue line is LOL

[proud gorge]

I mean, again, we're in a very different situation compared to those older leagues because PoE2 had a new league come out partway through this league

[tranquil sedge]

that's true
but with how bad this league was ngl i'm firmly of the opinion it would have still killed itself just fine 😂

[proud gorge]

and unsurprisingly a lot of players and content creators went to go play PoE2 instead of continuing to play PoE1 like they would previously have done

this league really isn't that bad

[tranquil sedge]

also the poe2 league is still kind of a disaster over there

[stiff coral]

irelevant no matter what came out on poe 2 if poe 1 league was good retention would be good

[tranquil sedge]

also leagues like kalandra and necropolis killed themselves pretty fine and there was no poe2 then

[stiff coral]

that too

[proud gorge]

like, is it the best league? No, but it's certainly not even close to the "worst league ever"

[stiff coral]

theres nothing to it

its like playing d3 season but even less so cause theres nothing fun to do for even a week

[tranquil sedge]

idk the crafting tree is pretty awful as a mechanic for how it devalues bases and currency items and speeds up burnout
and new breach isn't an upgrade over old breach as a whole

[proud gorge]

using retention stats to claim that this is the worst league ever is nonsensical, because we're very simply in a wildly different situation compared to previous leagues, it's like comparing apples to oranges, or I suppose apples to apples from 2000 years ago

[tranquil sedge]

.

[proud gorge]

you can have your gripes about the league, but let's not pretend this is literally the worst league ever

because it's distinctly not that

there have been some really bad leagues in the past

[tranquil sedge]

1 sec

[stiff coral]

its not the worst league ever but it certainly is just a filler thing with no real value whatsoever its a passing thought in between poo2 leagues

[stiff coral]

and again not even kalandra killed interest so fast

[proud gorge]

the only difference is that now there's PoE2, so the PoE content creators go play that for a bit instead of continuing to play PoE for the entire league duration

and their followers, who represent a very large portion of the playerbase, follow them

[stiff coral]

what does that have to do with anything??

[tranquil sedge]

its relevant because claiming this is the worst league ever by player retention, as i did, needs to be done in an even playing field

and if there's more reasons to quit 3.27 than any other league before it that im comparing it to

those have to be accounted for at least

[stiff coral]

bro poe is a very simple thing if the league is good people will grind it out and if theres new build stuff to do/use people will play endless hours of it.IF theres no content only boring slop put in there to say we put smth in its not dead nobody will play doesnt matter if there is poe2 or w/e else thats how poe has always been

[proud gorge]

Previously, a PoE content creator someone followed would probably continue to play the league for the full duration, doing new builds and events and such, creating interest for their followers to do the same, which drove a pretty significant portion of longer-term engagement. Nowadays, those same content creators are swapping over to making PoE2 videos when that league came out, and thus their fanbase follows them there.

[cobalt blade]

Counterargument here retention before poe2 was also awful

[tranquil sedge]

i agree with what kodo said tho

mercenaries had great retention and we did have a poe2 league overlap it

and it still was good

[proud gorge]

yeah but you can see how before the PoE2 league launch it was low but within the vague middle of the pack

and then when the PoE2 league launched the trajectory suddenly dipped

like, that's pretty visible from the data

[cobalt blade]

well its at the literal bottom before it launched

and was coasting around the bottom before then

[stiff coral]

irelevant maybe if they had a good build or smth but people played already and thought i want to do that build not many people played cause ziz or steelmage or ruetoo were playing instead they were playing and the streamers happened to make a good build or smth

[proud gorge]

no? Before the league launch it's pretty middle of the pack, it's that blue line

[cobalt blade]

alot of casuals quit because tree made their gearing too easy they achieved what they wanted etc and then alot minmax players quit because theres fuckin nothing interesting to farm

[proud gorge]

you can see that it was doing better than Blight, Delirium, and Expedition

up until the PoE2 launch

[stiff coral]

i think the gearing made easy at the start wasnt the problem the problem was theres nothing new nothing to do or use said gear to beat nothing...

[proud gorge]

again, people keep trying to doomsay about this league being the worst league ever because of player retention numbers, but up until the PoE2 league launch it was fine, lower than the average but still doing fine

[stiff coral]

its literally empty

[proud gorge]

and then when PoE2 league launched a significant portion of players moved over there, which unsurprisingly caused numbers to dip significantly where they wouldn't have before

[tranquil sedge]

(poe2 launch for reference)

[proud gorge]

ah, that's the launch? I thought it was closer to 30-ish

[cobalt blade]

i think its fairly relevant for the people who only play to like pinnacles or something and quit

[barren river]

This league was a turd

[proud gorge]

alright, that paints a slightly different picture, but still a similar one

[cobalt blade]

Also im p sure your confusing some of the blue lines

[stiff coral]

and again player retention is just a metric what i can tell u for sure is me and my friends after playing poe for 10 years quit in a week more or less cause we couldnt find anything to do

[tranquil sedge]

thats coz of all the nerfs and yea that's true too

[proud gorge]

decent launch, okay first couple weeks, decent first 30 days, then a significant drop after the first month or so

[stiff coral]

and from what i can see a lot more people did the same

[barren river]

This league was just mediocre

[proud gorge]

then an even more significant drop after the PoE2 league launched

[tranquil sedge]

poe2 just helped make it worse
but this league didn't have any reason to push particularly hard lol

what're you gonna do pushing when there's the ceiling is lowered instead of being raised

[stiff coral]

was just whatever nobody cares anyway

[proud gorge]

but like, again, there have been some real stinkers of leagues in the past, let's not pretend like this is the worst league they've ever put out, people are just looking for reasons to be angry for some reason

[tranquil sedge]

no that was definitely part of the problem too

[proud gorge]

could it have been better? Yes, undeniably

[tranquil sedge]

skipping early gearing is an easy way to make people quit faster

coz they spend less time playing and they accomplish shit faster and it means less now byebye thx for playing sorta situation

especially for people who were going to quit earlier than later anyway

just accelerates the process

[proud gorge]

was this league basically just made with dev assets from PoE2? Also yes

[barren river]

Was there any other league that was this mediocre?

[stiff coral]

even that bad ones didnt give off a whatever feeling at the very least at the bad ones someone cared

[tranquil sedge]

it also hurts the long-term players coz well if good gear is dirt cheap bye loot value

[cobalt blade]

it is one of the worst leagues they put out tho when you consider making a liked mechanic worse lol

[tranquil sedge]

bye bases, bye currency items

[crisp plinth]

its been one of the worst leagues so far, they made a whole mechanic worse for no reason

[tranquil sedge]

people are just looking for reasons to be angry for some reason
"some" reason xd
not a hard guess brother

[proud gorge]

Personally I'm quite enjoying this league, because the thing I like PoE for is the complex building opportunities, and this league added a lot of those, in the form of Foulborns and Bloodline ascendancies

but I get why people have issues with it

[barren river]

IMHO reg breach and keepers should be merged

[tranquil sedge]

im just fucking praying it doesn't go core

[cobalt blade]

Eh most bloodlines/foulborns are kinda mid with few exceptions

[barren river]

Perhaps remove Chayula

[crisp plinth]

itll definitely go core

[thick goblet]

i mean they've been doing that since sanctum league

[tranquil sedge]

like please for the love of god just undo this whole league when 3.27 ends

[stiff coral]

i dont think anyone is really angry its just that slowly but surely theyve made us not care much

[tranquil sedge]

apathy is even worse than anger

[cobalt blade]

(Interesting but mid)

[tranquil sedge]

an angry playerbase still cares what happens to the game

an apathetic playerbase has given up

[stiff coral]

ye exactly

[pulsar dune]

Ye, you can build cool new stuff, but there's also not much of a challenge to run into with those new builds. People are playing autobombers smh.

[tranquil sedge]

last epoch is in the apathy stage right now

and that just looks fun doesn't it

[cobalt blade]

doing the best currency making farms with autobombers xd

[tranquil sedge]

poe1 is somewhere between anger and apathy

and poe2 is starting to understand what anger looks like

[stiff coral]

closer to apathy i think

[cobalt blade]

love having nothing worth sending multi mirror characters at

[barren river]

IMHO foulborns should be retained and the genesis tree should only be for uniques

[crisp plinth]

tree is the first thing that needs to go

[tranquil sedge]

100% delete the useless tree

[crisp plinth]

just drop loot in areas

[tranquil sedge]

^^^^^^

[crisp plinth]

how hard is the concept of literally just dropping loot

[tranquil sedge]

the tree is the worst part of the mechanic even worse than the shit rework of breach

(tho that's a very close second)

[stiff coral]

poe 2 never had anything imo its just a failed attempt that needs years of work and listening that the 2 lead devs will not do prob

[barren river]

Foulborn items should drop from the tree imho

They do not belong as loot imo

[pulsar dune]

Honestly I think the atlas tree will make breach more bearable if they lock in a bit.

[barren river]

But that's it

[cobalt blade]

Would argue for the defend breach part being worse

[crisp plinth]

why whould there be a tree

it does nothing if its only uniques

[stiff coral]

true

[proud gorge]

yeah, the tree is definitely not going core, by any means, it's very much a "league-specific crafting mechanic" similar to Necropolis

[tranquil sedge]

sure its close enough to be a tossup i reckon

[crisp plinth]

it barely does something rn

[cobalt blade]

Yee

[tranquil sedge]

that's why i think it won't go core yea

same reason necro didn't

[thick goblet]

they should just replace some of the dogshit uniques with their interesting foulborn counterparts
i think keeping all of them is way too much bloat

[barren river]

But what about foulborn unnatural instinct?

[thick goblet]

it also makes rog even more worthless

[cobalt blade]

I think they should make it part of alva

[tranquil sedge]

lmaoooo

[proud gorge]

personally my biggest issue with the new Breach is just the fact that the Fortresses are way too large, and have grapsing chests hidden around that you're encouraged to go find despite the zone being enormous for some reason

[tranquil sedge]

and gwennen has been useless since forever

[cobalt blade]

Toss your uniques at alva breach room to foulborn it

[tranquil sedge]

poor expedition folks

[cobalt blade]

Would be neat

[crisp plinth]

the fortresses do nothing but waste time

the escape is the worst part

[barren river]

Breach defence is genuinely cringe

[tranquil sedge]

tujen is barely okay and that too only first few weeks
dannig same thing
rog low use early on
gwennen entirely useless

[proud gorge]

Unstable Breach is alright, though they should really make the unstable breach monsters run towards you from the edge like they do for the "defense" missions

[cobalt blade]

Those only spawn in specific points of the fortress

[thick goblet]

the poe2 experience? honestly that makes a lot of sense
that they're basically demo-ing the orb in poe2 before adding it to poe1 permanently

[tranquil sedge]

just undo this entire fucking league, the nerfs included
and only cherry pick what goes back in

[cobalt blade]

I mean it fits with the theme of alva from 1 as well

[tranquil sedge]

add back only the absolutely most useful things and just revert the game to pre-3.27 state honestly

[cobalt blade]

Locus doryanis the ancient orb room

[proud gorge]

the biggest issue with the unstable breach is the enemies not actually approaching you, forcing you to find them, which is super awkward in some map layouts

[cobalt blade]

(tho also fuck grabbing the chests such a large waste of time xd)

[crisp plinth]

the biggest issue is that they made it more like blight when breach itself was fine

[barren river]

And you cannot do breach defence with flicker

[thick goblet]

the other dumb thing about unstable breaches is that you're forced to go back to the center at the end of the breach anyways
so what's the point of expanding out

[tranquil sedge]

i mean if you think about it it would be a great fucking reason to make one other temple room useful

right now temples have basically only 2 valuable rooms

[cobalt blade]

Yup

[tranquil sedge]

it could add a third.

but then looking at how they handled breach...

do we really want them touching alva

[proud gorge]

the wave defense is, uh, alright I guess, a bit long-winded but it's just enemies running at you. Problem is, is there any actual point to there being a "defense" point instead of it just being another Unstable Breach?

[cobalt blade]

to slow us down

[tranquil sedge]

^ slow u down

[proud gorge]

If you're not standing right on top of Ailith it's functionally just a "kill all enemies" anyways

like Unstable Breach but in waves

[tranquil sedge]

blight artificially slows u down with waves and spawn times and monster movement speed

they took all those lessons away from it

[cobalt blade]

yea breach was honestly one of the few that didnt have some form of artificial slow

[proud gorge]

Fortress, like I said, is just too big. If it were way way smaller, with less waves, it'd probably be alright

[tranquil sedge]

not to mention you could slow down or speed it up as u like

with atlas tree

but the base mechanic is already fun

[proud gorge]

maybe my opinion is a bit different than the general community's because I never really did much Breach before anyways

it was always just a "oh hey here's some enemies I guess" mechanic

I did like the actual Breachstones though

[cobalt blade]

legion has double killing abyss you need to follow blight is blight ritual has delayed spawns essence you need to click 3 times on each etc

[proud gorge]

those were fun, and engaging

[cobalt blade]

delve following the cart/collecting sulphite the whole of heist

lol

[tranquil sedge]

it was, but the difficulty ceiling was high enough if you juiced ur maps to the limit that you legitimately could justify investing in a clear build to do breach

like, the ceiling was high

[barren river]

I personally hate the removal of breachstones

[crisp plinth]

breach before had more interesting things to do than it does now sadly

more interesting bosses too

[barren river]

It was my main method of levelling till 84

[tranquil sedge]

removing breachstones feels like something jonathan might do looking at splinters in poe2 instead lol

[barren river]

Then, I'm going in the t16 basement

[proud gorge]

but yeah, the weirdest change with this Breach change is the removal of most of the endgame of it

[cobalt blade]

Personally loved it for xp farming/cheapo mapping with its dirt cheap scarabs

kinda fun to just do 8 breaches at once all opened

[proud gorge]

and replacing it with, like, that one boss encounter? And Vruun? Does he count?

[tranquil sedge]

vroom vroom scooter

[proud gorge]

Vruun is just so non-threatening

just a big ball of hp

[cobalt blade]

I still dunno what he does just dies too fast

[barren river]

I played a zhp build. He was only dangerous due to geforce now lag

[crisp plinth]

grasping mails are also a meme now

[cobalt blade]

thats honestly one of the good changes specifically for trade

For ssf it got worse

Targetting mods is so nice for isolating it

[crisp plinth]

60 rings is just cringe even for trade

just make it 20 given bosses are so rare now

[barren river]

But getting a ton of breach rings makes me look like my pfp

[crisp plinth]

then again just toss the whole league why even think of fixes

[cobalt blade]

It was already 60 rings but now you can target the specific one lol

[crisp plinth]

it was 60 rings when you got like 5-10 per map

if not more

[split maple]

you could get shitload of rings per map/stone before yea

[crisp plinth]

now you get 1 ring per x maps

[split maple]

i have more hive rings than grasping mails

its so so sad

[barren river]

Kids, this is why I never play ssf

[cobalt blade]

Ye and youd need to do like 5-8 inventories to maybe get 1 of the good mods and itd be harder to isolate idk

I did it a good bit well sim farming in some leagues

[barren river]

I will probably do ssf boneshitter at some point

But magnate is a t2 unique, thus getting it is aids

[split maple]

t2 with tree is kinda nonissue tbh

[tranquil sedge]

more sometimes lol

[cobalt blade]

for sure

[split maple]

like even t1s are reasonable this leg lol

[barren river]

double united in dream 😭

it could have been double red nightmare

[split maple]

isnt double fbl red nightmare kinda shit

[cobalt blade]

i think jewels are rarer

[tranquil sedge]

it legitimately does not feel like they thought it out properly lol

[barren river]

i minimise foulborn chance on the tree

[split maple]

jewels are ok

1 per 20-25 ancients

got 2 usable red nightmares so far, just one bricked in temple

[cobalt blade]

holy forbidden flame for your class

[barren river]

voices

[split maple]

its liege

[cobalt blade]

yooo just a few thousand eaters and you can ssf liege

[barren river]

liege is a good one, so getting it must be aids

[thick goblet]

what is to the left of the inspired learning

[tranquil sedge]

f/f aren't weighted are they

[split maple]

blue dream or firesong?

[cobalt blade]

Foulborn immutable

[thick goblet]

they are against the secret ascendancy nodes

[tranquil sedge]

i see

[split maple]

secret ones are uber only anyways

[thick goblet]

oh firesong

[proud gorge]

but yeah, imo, the best way to "fix" the new breach mechanic would probably be to do sort of a hybrid between old and new breach. Keep the unstable breach mechanic where it opens and you kill enemies to keep opening it, but return the old 5 breach varieties and old breach mobs, and have the enemies actually run at you from the edge of the breach, while letting you open multiple breaches at once. Once stabilized, instead of Vruun, spawn the type-appropriate Breachlord, like how they occasionally appeared in old breaches.

Obviously the tree is out, and so are the wombgifts, so the rewards return to being old breach rings and splinters, though probably make them all drop at the end around you like how they do when you collapse an unstable breach now.

I'd honestly probably remove the in-map wave defense, but if it must remain I'd just make it a waves-based version of Unstable Breach where instead of fighting to keep the breach opening, it spawns a few larger and larger waves to run at you, culminating in either a bunch of rares or a breachlord, like the unstable breach.

Then, instead of in-map Fortress, maybe stick a smaller version of the "Fortress" tile at the end of a breachstone, where you can loot chests, get foulborn uniques, and fight a breachlord in an area at the end instead of the wave defense thing.

[cobalt blade]

Oh wait that one is firesong immutable is darker red

holy paragraph

[thick goblet]

i also thought it was immutable at first but it looked weird

[split maple]

dbl foulborn firesong is giga good btw

[barren river]

in my later game builds, i always use forbidden jewels. I cannot imagine ssf-ing them

[cobalt blade]

Just making it unstable only with scarabs its now good honestly

[tranquil sedge]

reasonable take 👍
just also balance the number of rings dropped (to pre-3.27 levels) otherwise grasping mails are made way fucking inaccessible

[cobalt blade]

(and ofc give it ground loot over the tree shit)

[cobalt blade]

Ye its one of the juicy chieftain ones

[proud gorge]

That would keep the most interesting parts of the new breach mechanic (killing enemies to keep opening the breach, letting it stabilize when fully opened) while also keeping the best part of the old breach mechanic (multiple breaches, multiple breachlords, cool breachstones)

[cobalt blade]

/ele as well ofc

[proud gorge]

and can you imagine opening then stabilizing 5 overlapping breaches at once

[split maple]

my cws sure likes it yeah

[proud gorge]

sounds wild

[cobalt blade]

why stop at 5 bring back the 10 breach node on tree

run some strand breaches

[split maple]

btw is there any reasonable way to get dps on heraldstack brander or should i just suck up and focus tats again

[tranquil sedge]

tree node will be back once league ends

which nodes, ofc unknown

but nodes will be back

[cobalt blade]

Ye just depends on if they nerf it or revert breach fully

[barren river]

herald effect

[cobalt blade]

Pbrand ?

[split maple]

i got like 100 tattos and only one is herald effect -.-

pbode yea

[barren river]

penis brand

[cobalt blade]

Guessing you have the herald of the hive shit if so i think its kinda just gem levels/phys as extra where possible on pbrand lol

Without access to infinite herald effect tattoos

[split maple]

yeah, so far i got this planed: https://pobb.in/y1novNWK-c-C

[proud gorge]

you know what's terrifying though

[split maple]

70mil ramped feels a tad low to my sanctumy skill issues tho

[proud gorge]

while this Breach might not go core here, this is probably the version of Breach that's going to end up in PoE2

[crisp plinth]

kinda getting old to resummon AW

hope i can get worms soon

[tranquil sedge]

why is that terrifying

[proud gorge]

and as far as PoE2 mechanics go, this is probably actually a fast mechanic

[tranquil sedge]

that sounds like the best case scenario

yea LOL

[proud gorge]

they'll probably enjoy it lmao

[cobalt blade]

Too fast for poe2 xddd

[proud gorge]

actually in PoE2 successfully defending the point would actually probably be a challenge, unless you're on one of those meta screen-clearing builds

being swarmed by that many enemies at once might genuinely be an issue

[tranquil sedge]

just more incentive to play meta

[gritty epoch]

poe "fk melee" two

[proud gorge]

yeah... the state of PoE2's meta is wild

melee somehow in a worse state there than even pre-melee-rework melee in PoE1

[barren river]

IDK if I will even play poe2

[proud gorge]

because they get all the downsides of being melee while being unable to actually build tanky enough to survive in melee

[tranquil sedge]

never say never
just say...few years

[cobalt blade]

Looks about right for a mix of good mapper/st to me

[tranquil sedge]

apex match time brb

[barren river]

sanctum me instead

[cobalt blade]

maybe get a better ring than death rush for bossing/sanctum though

[gritty epoch]

the design philosophy in poe2:
first thing they design something => how to fk melee

[proud gorge]

I'll play PoE2 if/when they get enough interesting mechanics and such to actually make character building interesting

because as is the character building is super uninteresting to me

[split maple]

Oh right I won't have adrenaline for lycia

[gritty epoch]

means never?

[split maple]

Lemme check warlord

[crisp plinth]

can you target gem in grand heists or is it all rng now?

[barren river]

i intentionally avoided watching poe2 content

[barren river]

gem room ig

[split maple]

blueprint can only have gem rooms if it requires employee that can have gem rooms in his contract

[cobalt blade]

prolly just crit multi essence ring angle

[split maple]

cannot remember which ones are that

[crisp plinth]

good to know ty

[cobalt blade]

cant think of anything super relevant on warlord?

[split maple]

crit multi

essence cast speed + warlord multi

[barren river]

Gem room drops tharthus gems like candy

[proud gorge]

the example I like to cite is when I tried playing Cold Damage Crossbow Monk, since I saw that there was an interesting cold damage crossbow skill and Monk is near some interesting cold damage nodes on the passive tree. So I acquired myself a crossbow with really high flat cold damage, geared up a monk, took all the cold damage nodes...

And it turns out I dealt less damage than a straight up full phys crossbow Mercenary using a fully phys meta crossbow, because the skill has 100% phys to cold conversion while still benefitting fully from all phys passives, making elemental gearing pointless

[cobalt blade]

Fair enough warlord being lower than ess makes me dislike that personally

+being able to force cast speed with reforge caster on non influenced

But in ssf could see warlord just being cheaper

[split maple]

more that i already got it 😛

[pulsar dune]

I mean, this exact thing is going to be true in POE1, no?

[proud gorge]

turns out there's a way they want you to play the game, using the specific weapons on the specific classes those weapons are designed for, and using the skills alongside the specific passives those classes are designed to take, in the specific skill synergies the skills are designed to use, using the specific passives pre-designed for those skills. And any variation from that is just strictly worse

[cobalt blade]

lol thats also fair

[pulsar dune]

outside of like... ice bite stuff

[split maple]

yeah just 10% dps lost compared to adrenaline, decent enough

[proud gorge]

No? If you wanted to play Frost Blades, for example, you'd pick up a high flat cold weapon. You're rewarded for actually specializing into things, so if you're doing a cold damage build, you'd build cold damage things. In PoE2, the various elemental crossbow skills just all have 100% conversion from phys into whatever element they're dealing, and scale very poorly in their actual damage element, so they're designed for you to just take a physical crossbow and use the skills.

[frigid wedge]

frost blades goes tri ele

[pulsar dune]

what frost blades build plays flat cold outside of like.... white wind leaguestart? It's tri-ele

[cobalt blade]

I mean you would get more damage going tri ele until late game where hatred/phys as extra scaling beats it

[proud gorge]

the frost blades builds this league, which grab a very high cold damage weapon and then get the other elements through conversion like Heatshiver

[cobalt blade]

very rarely is pure 1 damage type correct for attacks(outside of phys)

[proud gorge]

though still, the point is that it's an elemental weapon

[pulsar dune]

damn

that's actually crazy

[cobalt blade]

Does it have flat damage rings

[frigid wedge]

most likely

[pulsar dune]

oh yea, it's ice bite stuff

[cobalt blade]

Yep

Makes sense

[pulsar dune]

but not shako ice bite

[tranquil sedge]

not very hard to craft

this is a simple craft tbh

[pulsar dune]

yeah, but it's actually pretty ass

[tranquil sedge]

the weapon? or the craft

[pulsar dune]

but you can't go paradoxica I wager

[cobalt blade]

but i also think tri ele is gonna have more damage without shako?

[tranquil sedge]

isn't endgame frostblades claw

[proud gorge]

The intent in PoE2, I guess, is to make it easy for players to pick up a default phys crossbow and be able to use any crossbow skill without having to worry about specific elements, but the result of this is that there's almost no room for interesting builds, because when the default version of the weapon is optimal for every single skill that weapon uses, what's the point in experimenting or alternatives or anything?

[tranquil sedge]

frenzy stacking claw build?

[pulsar dune]

yea, that's what I'm looking at

[cobalt blade]

It makes sense for the life on hit tbh

[pulsar dune]

IG it's not that different from like... zenith swords having flat

[frigid wedge]

nightblade is more likely

[tranquil sedge]

yea one shot and ur at full hp again

esp when katabasis wasn't nerfed

shotgun entire packs half a screen away

'melee' build

[cobalt blade]

nightblade is mid kinda just good for the move speed lmao

[tranquil sedge]

was the most expected nerf ever but ofc they went overboard and killed it entirely instead

[pulsar dune]

but I do think it's dishonest to call a build like this a build that uses a mono-elemental weapon. It uses a weapon designed to amplify the global flat it gets from frenzy stacking.

[cobalt blade]

I love my 2 screen melee characters

[barren river]

it's like terraria melee

[pulsar dune]

and well, it has a spare prefix

[frigid wedge]

nightblade is literally just a hybrid of inc crit strikes and inc crit dmg with free elusive on the side

[pulsar dune]

It'd be like trying to build zenith with a chaos sword without replica alberons

you will just do less damage than an actually good sword

[opaque sphinx]

r00d

[proud gorge]

but yeah, I saw a PoE2 video recently talking about melee being difficult in PoE2, and people in the comments going "it's the same in PoE1, the only good melee is just ranged anyways", and like, maybe that was true like a year or two ago, but honestly true strike-based melee is pretty good these days. It's never going to be optimal, due to having relatively low clear compared to some skill capable of blowing up the entire screen instantly, but they're pretty good, and honestly some of the easiest skills to scale damage on, allowing for much more investment into defenses or something

[cobalt blade]

Ye and the average of it tends to be worse than another support (tho idk the exception for that on assassin)

[tranquil sedge]

'melee' has been aight since 3.25

[frigid wedge]

u would be surprised how many builds wish they could fit nightblade

[tranquil sedge]

like we have legitimate melee things we just get to have fun with them and scale to funny levels

they don't get the scaling

so their 'melee' sucks

[proud gorge]

If you're only looking at the top, like, 5 skills, yeah strike-based melee is probably not going to be in there

[frigid wedge]

its identical multi to crit dmg support

[proud gorge]

but that's mostly because the top 5 skills are generally going to be primarily based around clearspeed rather than DPS

[pulsar dune]

I mean, hit mamba is is the highest DPS non-zhp setup this league.

[opaque sphinx]

but also flat crit

[tranquil sedge]

mamba go brr

ms/msoz/fb/fbok go brr too

[pulsar dune]

since accu stack dual wields

[tranquil sedge]

ms is very melee it has basically fuckall clear

[opaque sphinx]

wait i wanna see smth

[proud gorge]

yeah, strike melee is great for giving you super high DPS for cheap, or super high DPS for expensive

it's why they're great for tank builds, because of how low the investment into damage needs to be to hit reasonable Ubers DPS numbers

[cobalt blade]

P sure its 2h eblade inquis zenith technically just people dont play that since it feels ass

[pulsar dune]

yea that may be true tbh

[cobalt blade]

But its raw damage is higher with comparable tankiness

[frigid wedge]

zenith annoys me for dps comparisons

[cobalt blade]

I meaan it tends to be the 7th or 8th support similar to crit damage people just use it for elusive

[opaque sphinx]

balanced

[barren river]

zenith my beloved

[cobalt blade]

My 2 link vigilant strike has overflowing tooltip on acc stacker lmao

Its so funny how well atk speed overflows that

[frigid wedge]

doesn't vigilant have like 500% added dmg effectiveness

[opaque sphinx]

yeah but

[frigid wedge]

and requires endu charges

[opaque sphinx]

reave

14.5m tooltip standing still

swap mamba it overflows

[cobalt blade]

Thats vaal reave

[opaque sphinx]

sorry mb

[frigid wedge]

sorry why are u going crit with 30% crit chance

[vital lily]

i disagree if we talk summoner poe 1 is easiest , then is diablo 4 , then is poe 2

[cobalt blade]

Ye i just use it for fortify tho so its only linked to fort support for extra duration lol so funny it overflows

[opaque sphinx]

im in hideout with no jolts pcharges elusive or tincture

[cobalt blade]

assassins mark

[opaque sphinx]

or ass mark

[frigid wedge]

assassins mark very much does not cap crit from there but ok

[cobalt blade]

itll have like 50-60 crit against bosses im sure

[frigid wedge]

maybe the elusive too

[cobalt blade]

so crits still good

[opaque sphinx]

ok lets ignore the other 4 things i said too

smh

[frigid wedge]

but using crit tincture is criminal

[proud gorge]

oh yeah, side note, what are these nerfs people are complaining about? I haven't really felt any nerfs yet, is it just to the T17 mods?

[gritty epoch]

I have 5mil default attack tooltip in hideout

[barren river]

scarabs

[opaque sphinx]

jolts are 60% inc, pcharges are 300% inc, tincture is 200% inc, elusive is 1% base

and ass mark is 1% base

[frigid wedge]

they halved map mod effect and the most potent way to get quant etc has been effectively bricked bc t17 mods no longer have more quant than 16 mods

[pulsar dune]

most of the fun endgame strats in mercs are gone, and explicit effect is worse, and scarabs are lesser than ever.

[cobalt blade]

hmm i dont remember what mine was but it was atleast 6 digit too for that

and i did auto attack some ubers to death for fun

[frigid wedge]

so u kinda have no pack size if u get scarab quant, no rarity if u get quant etc, u kinda get to pick one bit of ur map to actually have

when rolling

and it feels bad

[cobalt blade]

Lower map mod effect+risk nerf+t17 mods giving less map stuff

[opaque sphinx]

[frigid wedge]

empyrian

?

[cobalt blade]

just boredom on minmaxed builds

[proud gorge]

I mean, honestly I don't mind some T17 nerfs, I didn't like how all the endgame strats were just T17 for almost everything because the T17 layouts suck ass

[cobalt blade]

have done it on armour stackers too

[frigid wedge]

but most of them weren't, they were on 16.5

[gritty epoch]

In Poe2 how many bosses have ground degen, homing tornados, aoe slam that only hit melee and persistent aoe cc that fks melee? Not even talking mob mods

[opaque sphinx]

how much of a multiplier is 200 res

-200

[frigid wedge]

t17 is very rarely better than getting to choose ur map layout

[frigid wedge]

iirc its 13

[gritty epoch]

Boss do a slam, wait that's not it, the slam leaves chaos DoT ground. Lol melee

[barren river]

6 digits 😳

[opaque sphinx]

default attack dps in pob

[frigid wedge]

now add doryanis

and watch it go nyoom

[opaque sphinx]

thats with doryanis but its my old pob before some upgrades

[crisp plinth]

hm ok trarthus gems arent guaranteed in gem rooms, kinda thought its 1 per room or so

[frigid wedge]

how much less without

[gritty epoch]

Imo they waited too much to nerf t17

[opaque sphinx]

[cobalt blade]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepers/character/Nacasatú-2245/NacaMarauderKeepers cant check my autoattack in pob rn since in bed but it do be a good bit lol

[opaque sphinx]

so its about a 7x multiplier to pinnacles

just under

[frigid wedge]

i feel like t17 balancing would have been fine if instead of designing the mods to either brick half the builds in the game or be incredibly infuriating, they made them difficult instead

[tranquil sedge]

they made them difficult instead
thats what they tried to do when they nerfed map effect
turns out nobody likes that

[barren river]

What about clusters of 32 highly volatile barrels?

[gritty epoch]

Tedious and unfair = difficulty

[pulsar dune]

I mean, T17 mods are the only mods in the game with actual counterplay

[tranquil sedge]

its fine to have mods that brick builds

bigger issue is how mandatory t17s are for uber bosses gatekeeping

[frigid wedge]

but that doesnt actually add difficulty, it just makes ppl less likely to run them

[cobalt blade]

back 2 basics barrels my beloved

[pulsar dune]

the counterplay is walking away and being careful when looting

but shh

[tranquil sedge]

that is in fact most mods in this game

including t16 mods

[frigid wedge]

ig so

[tranquil sedge]

like why is no regen a t16 mod

coz u can build around it

same for every mod

[proud gorge]

We should get some of the Valdos mods. Maybe add an orb or something that, when used on a map, upgrades it to be able to roll Valdos mods.

[tranquil sedge]

tank mod, dps mod, mechanic mod

build around it

[barren river]

Highly volatile barrels were aids? I didn't play back then

[tranquil sedge]

that's the whole game

[frigid wedge]

ig so

[cobalt blade]

No they were just silly loot

So they removed the map mod

[gritty epoch]

Action speed mod counter play is to play trickster or jugg

[opaque sphinx]

bro this is hilarious

[tranquil sedge]

doesn't even have to be that

you can outright ignore that mod if u play a slower bigger hitting skill too

[tranquil sedge]

or u can use a unique or something

[cobalt blade]

channeling build too

[gritty epoch]

Big if

[tranquil sedge]

i mean

dont run the mod

[frigid wedge]

but having better mods for dmg and survivability etc instead of half the mods just setting ur act speed to 0 is way better

[opaque sphinx]

nah this foulborn 100% getting destroyed next league

[tranquil sedge]

or run it with any of the ways to get around it

[pulsar dune]

it's a weird complaint to make about T17 mods, since T16 mods brick way harder than most things T17s do

[tranquil sedge]

like idk t17s are rewarding enough even if u spend 50c a map to roll them

and t17 maps ironically are less brick yea lol

[frigid wedge]

if any stay

[gritty epoch]

The initial discussion is about counterplay but yeah not all builds can run all mods

[barren river]

I personally hate unstable tentacle fiends

[tranquil sedge]

sure
that's also (imo) how it should be

[barren river]

Or volatile cores

[frigid wedge]

the thing is the bricking isnt rlly the issue, the issue is u can run all of them and basically every t17 mod is designed to piss you off

[tranquil sedge]

i hate many of the mods too
i will still run them if i want to/can

[cobalt blade]

The difference is pretty much all t16 mods have a swap you can do to play around them but if your like a mine build you kikda cant play around the -mines thrown

[pulsar dune]

yea, they tried to add real gameplay to poe1 mapping

[tranquil sedge]

some of them are just there for trolling tho yes like volatile cores before the nerf or the 'deal no damage for 3 seconds every 10 seconds'

[pulsar dune]

does -mines thrown matter?

[tranquil sedge]

that deal no damage mod is just mentally challenged

[barren river]

I also hate goatmen

[pulsar dune]

IG if you aren't on minefield

[proud gorge]

tbh I think the issue is less there being some mods that some builds can't run, and more there being many mods that only very specific builds can run

[pulsar dune]

otherwise it's just like 40% less DPS, no?

[frigid wedge]

the deal no damage mod and the eater orbs is stupid

[tranquil sedge]

only very specific builds can run
this is not true though

[crisp plinth]

those mods just feel extremely anti fun by nature compared to just additional difficulty

[cobalt blade]

it does if your doing mod effect albeit less so now with reduced mod effect scaling

[tranquil sedge]

most builds can run most mods if you invest enough or build to counter them

but yes only some builds can run all mods

but that's fine tbh

[barren river]

Unstable Tentacle Fiends are truly awful

[frigid wedge]

bc if ur build deals with the deal no dmg mod u get instakilled by eater orbs

[barren river]

AKA elder blast

[tranquil sedge]

im not gonna even try to defend the deal no damage mod
that one is just aids

[frigid wedge]

and if u build for eater orbs u never deal any dmg

[tranquil sedge]

what is eater orbs

the grey things?

[cobalt blade]

play molten strike servers pauses for 5 seconds during deal no damage mod cos you lag it and now you die to eater orbs

[tranquil sedge]

that explode?

[frigid wedge]

the stupid ones that eat you

[gritty epoch]

I just dislike tediousness being equated to difficulty, to top it off the disparity on builds that can do them all Vs those that can't do a few mods and the fact they make it extra rewarding so in an economic sense u gotta take the dick

[tranquil sedge]

drowning orbs?

[pulsar dune]

you can build around the no damage mod at least with like temporal rift or whatever

[cobalt blade]

but also eater orbs you just want action speed immune

[frigid wedge]

those

[tranquil sedge]

i dont think u even build around those tho either ur immune to them or ur not and just pay attention

[frigid wedge]

the faster ur debuff expire rate is the less time it takes to get killed by an eater orb

[barren river]

What about unstable tentacle fiends?

[tranquil sedge]

oh

true i forgot runegraft

my bad

[crisp plinth]

the amount of things that just punish you for relaxing a bit is annoying

[pulsar dune]

nah that's fixed now

[crisp plinth]

or just loot

[frigid wedge]

is it?

[tranquil sedge]

i wish we'd just get uber frags from normal bosses

[proud gorge]

Elemental and Phys reflect have been in the game for a long time, but each respectively would only brick less than half of all builds, and there's pretty easy ways to build around those things, but that's also because they're longstanding parts of the game so more and more solutions to reflect have been added over time, making gearing against them viable and diverse, instead of just "pick this one thing that solves that issue"

[tranquil sedge]

like give normal bosses some love ugh

[cobalt blade]

Yea same tho i will admit its less impactful now to be able to run all mods with risk not being as good

[pulsar dune]

unstable tentacle fiends should definitely explode offscreen

[tranquil sedge]

even 50% chance of 1 frag is more than enough to remove the outright dependance on t17

[pulsar dune]

it's wild that you have to afk near them

[frigid wedge]

the fact that they wait at current progress is kinda dumb

[barren river]

No damage and fiends are the mods that I hate the most

[cobalt blade]

reflect is also just a 3-5 passive swap and panth swap to mitigate 90+% of the time

[proud gorge]

but yeah, I think part of the issue with something like the action speed mod is just that, until this league, there were just very few ways to build around it, and those few ways were ascendancy specific

[frigid wedge]

if its aboutta explode and i movement skill offscreen and it insta explodes is stupid

[barren river]

And volatile cores

[cobalt blade]

Volatiles got nerfed this league

[split maple]

Balance of terror is always an option

[cobalt blade]

They arent nearly as bad now

[tranquil sedge]

volatiles were bigly nerfed

[cobalt blade]

v tankable

[proud gorge]

this league did add at least a couple new ways to deal with action speed, at least

[frigid wedge]

volatile cores arent that bad anyways

[tranquil sedge]

they used to be

[proud gorge]

though granted one of them is a foulborn unique

[tranquil sedge]

now they're not

[proud gorge]

so who knows if that'll be sticking around

[opaque sphinx]

u just changed ur build to one that does more dmg per hit and hits less often

[frigid wedge]

they still 1 tap me, volatile cores have never been bad if u have any movement speed

[opaque sphinx]

thats an ignite/bleed/slam/duration skill mod

[tranquil sedge]

movement speed almost doesn't matter for them its more about what faust said, there's zero chill

if u stop u die unless u also move immediately after

[cobalt blade]

Also this is entirely because the server pauses stuff around 2.5-3 screens away for performance reasons

[frigid wedge]

u just run and then turn around and all the ones following u blow themselves up

[crisp plinth]

they just make the game annoying to play and thats why i dislike 16.5 and 17

[barren river]

I didn't do alva last league because I was frightened by the idea of rolling fiends via risk scarab

[tranquil sedge]

yea but that just meant u could not tank it at all
at least now kind tankable

[rustic sluice]

when are we getting the next poe1 league ?

[crisp plinth]

its not harder its just more balls to juggle at the same time

[cobalt blade]

Way too costly to simulate the whole map constantly just causes issues with unstable fiends lmao

[tranquil sedge]

feb/march

if we're lucky

[rustic sluice]

Got it , thanks

[opaque sphinx]

im pretty sure thats the definition of difficulty sir

[tranquil sedge]

end of feb is 4 months

[crisp plinth]

no its not

[frigid wedge]

i have a lotta experience w nemesis t17 on 0 ehp builds, volatiles arent bad as long as ur aware theyre on the map, if u keep moving theres not rlly any actual threat

[opaque sphinx]

juggling 10 balls is harder than juggling 4

[tranquil sedge]

i mean thats literally this entire game tho

[crisp plinth]

if i gave you 100 first grader math problems to solve while shooting balls at you and burnt your feet

that isnt difficult

[opaque sphinx]

thats not juggling?

[crisp plinth]

its just a lot of shit

[proud gorge]

I mean, the entire issue being talked about here is the fact that many T17 mods require you to very significantly change your build, often to the point of basically playing a different build, compared to the most problematic T16 mods which usually just require a very minor swap of pantheon and mastery or something

[tranquil sedge]

i agree they can be ignored if u play properly but its still nice to be able to at least tank them if necessary

[frigid wedge]

volatiles are ignorable if u see them on the map mods before u start the map, tentacle fiends literally cover half the map at a time and overlap perfectly so u cant stand in safe area

[tranquil sedge]

same with the elder slam

you can ignore those too if u play carefully or take your time or you can just tank them with enough investment

options are good

more options always good

[barren river]

[cobalt blade]

my largest problem honestly with tentacle fiends is that their phys damage

So any phys as extra they just fuck you up

[frigid wedge]

oh thats why my pf could tank them

[cobalt blade]

lmao

yep

[frigid wedge]

i feel like the game lets u get away with 20k phys max hit for basically everything other than those tbh

[tranquil sedge]

now bring back some map effect ggg

i want my triple phys as extra t17s again

700% phys as ele

[cobalt blade]

1000% phys as extra from 1 b2b mod

[frigid wedge]

Monsters in area gain 368% of physical damage as extra damage of a random element

balling

[cobalt blade]

with 11 proj and 1000% aoe

god i miss necropolis mapping that shit was funny

[tranquil sedge]

sirus meteor
exarch meteor (altar mod and t17 mod)
shaper slam
minotaur slam
rogue exiles pre-nerf i think?

what other bigly phys hits are there

[cobalt blade]

gehennix

largest phys hit in the game if your deep delving

[fluid harbor]

wtf am i rich chat

[gritty epoch]

I think so?

[frigid wedge]

most of the game hasnt got enough phys generally to worry past 20k max hit tho

[tranquil sedge]

maybe if you can sell it i suppose?

[cobalt blade]

tentacle fiends and theee regular elder explosion after you kill it is IIRC phys

[tranquil sedge]

oh right those

[cobalt blade]

(i dont know exactly how much though)

[proud gorge]

but anyways, on the topic of mods that you can build around, one issue I think is that there's a few different kinds of difficulty being discussed here, and a few different goals with regards to the mods.

If you believe that PoE is a game about build challenges, where the fun comes from designing and building a build that can react to every challenge it comes across, and has answers for everything, then having a lot of mods that you have to build around is a good thing, because that makes the build design challenge more complex. That is, unless there's only one solution to the problem, in which case it makes it less complex and more homogenous.

On the other hand, if you believe that PoE is a game about running fast and seeing mobs blow up, then having those mods is a bad thing, because they act as a barrier to running fast and seeing mobs blow up. That is, unless the fun comes from overcoming the challenges needed to run fast and blow things up, in which case it's a good thing for presenting a challenge to be overcome before you can run fast and blow things up.

On the other other hand, if you believe that PoE is a game about taking on really difficult juiced maps and making lots of money, then having those mods is probably a good thing? Unless they're not actually difficult, but tedious, and don't so much test your skill as make you wait?

[frigid wedge]

i agree theres other ways to get 1 tapped like that but after about 16k max hit i stop caring

[opaque sphinx]

ah so its the same convo we've had here 1000 times im just gonna leave my 2 cents and go back to playing lmao
i enjoy t17s as they are, rolling them is a chaos sink and selling them/buying others should be encouraged in a game built around a multiplayer economy
I find there is very few actually build disabling mods and its not hard to swap the ones that are, most of the mods are just "look at ur screen and play more carefully"
which i feel like should be a requirement when doing the most rewarding tier of content in the game, if u want to brain off zoom and relax go back to t16s
ik most of u disagree with that tho so

[tranquil sedge]

get down mister president

oh no get down again mister president

[frigid wedge]

MR PRESIDENT

[gritty epoch]

The only build I can think of that uses that is early to mid game brand recaller

[frigid wedge]

GET DOWN

[tranquil sedge]

this is pretty much my entire take, i agree with this entirely

i just wish uber frags weren't gatekept by t17

[split maple]

I just got used to volatiles with nemeses just to experience volatiles with blight

[proud gorge]

I think one issue with PoE is that it is, to different people, all three of those things, possibly at once.

[split maple]

Kinda ass it's impossible to get decent scarb quant on t16.5 without volatiles

[frigid wedge]

yeah volatiles are completely fine until i have 4 fps

[tranquil sedge]

most of my t17 problems were solved when t16.5 got introduced - layouts, more diverse mods, and supply

just make ubers available elsewhere ugh as an alternative

[split maple]

And running away from 30 during lagged out blight...

[cobalt blade]

i just make my builds tank the volatiles unless its pen and -max

so much easier this league thankfully

[frigid wedge]

yeah blight is the only time that volatile cores are actually difficult

[cobalt blade]

fuck trying to dodge those at 10 fps

[tranquil sedge]

that's especially when u try to tank it and then when u die u complain to people that the game's broken and its not a reading issue

-# definitely not speaking from personal experience no sir

[cobalt blade]

[split maple]

Like tanking 2-3 isn't issue

[gritty epoch]

I'm a bit angry Mark acknowledged they were gonna look at T17 mods then added the same mods to t16.5 anyway

[split maple]

Issue is fuck it's never Just 2-3

[frigid wedge]

my builds either cant tank a white mob or they facetank ubers

[proud gorge]

Personally I see PoE as a game about builds and figuring out build designs, which means I don't mind T17 mods being highly specific as long as there's diverse and interesting ways to build around them. My problem is when there's only one way to build around it, or those methods are only available to very very specific builds, because that's extremely limiting.

[frigid wedge]

there is no in between

[cobalt blade]

baseg

[tranquil sedge]

My problem is when there's only one way to build around it, or those methods are only available to very very specific builds, because that's extremely limiting.
this just slowly improves with time tho

that much at least we can be sure of

eventually options do get added

[pulsar dune]

yea, just need a bit of power creep and it'll be fine

[frigid wedge]

i also do not build chance based mitigation on the ones that die to white mobs

[cobalt blade]

this league being a good example honestly

[proud gorge]

yeah, which is why I didn't like release T17s but I don't mind them as much now

[cobalt blade]

Every build now gets action speed immune

[frigid wedge]

i literally just say fuck it we ball and hope nothing hits me

[cobalt blade]

lol

[frigid wedge]

im not even ailment immune rn

[gritty epoch]

🤝

[cobalt blade]

yea mines setup to an extent it has to be explicitly -max pen volatiles to die or -max pen and unstable fiends with phys as extra

[tranquil sedge]

all this talk just makes me want to play some poe can we speed up the new league somehow already

[cobalt blade]

Otherwise virtually immortal in mapping tanks ghosted feared and maven brain

[gritty epoch]

They are busy fixing poo2

[frigid wedge]

my max hits are literally 7k 18k 18k 18k and 12k rn, i do not have block, i do not have evade, i do not have phys taken as or suppress or dodge

[proud gorge]

but yeah, we're running an interesting sort of power creep spiral here, where the endgame content gets more problems, and we have to find more solutions to deal with those problems, but then once we have the ability to deal with all those problems then they have to introduce a new tier with more problems, and then we need to fit in even more solutions, and so on and so on

[split maple]

Idk how to even think about ailment immunity on that build tho. Even stormshroud is kinda ass to fit in if you don't want to compromise boots or if you don't go for Both abyssal socket boots and gloves

[tranquil sedge]

which build

[frigid wedge]

mine

[split maple]

Heralds

[tranquil sedge]

what build*

[frigid wedge]

heralds generally can fit it

my specific herald setup cannot

[tranquil sedge]

can we peek at ur pob

[cobalt blade]

Ye they did literally state the reason they added petrify statues action speed per skill use damage every Tuesday etc is to slow us down in a way annoying to mitigate

[frigid wedge]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/profile/SansShoto_-1609/character/SansShotoFlammen
would be using a progen if i could be bothered to play

[cobalt blade]

and then slowly we are powercreeping to mitigate that on every build with runegraft of the warp or uh aul

[proud gorge]

clearly we need to add a bunch of sources of "Your damage cannot be prevented"

to the game

[cobalt blade]

add it as scion buff

not even like an ascend node just she gets that natively

:3

[frigid wedge]

we do not talk about my bandit choice

[tranquil sedge]

fishing rod

[tranquil sedge]

nah alira is valid

all bandits are now valid

alira is goated as fuck

[frigid wedge]

kraityn is not valid

it is 8 movement speed

[split maple]

45% res for one passive kinda good

[tranquil sedge]

heist runners everywhere cry out in pain