2┃build-planning

[frosty finch]

Good enough lol

[dawn spire]

Which skill?

[frosty finch]

Incendiary shot

[mellow shale]

Yeah that one gets also more duration per fragment hits if I recall.

[frosty finch]

Thats why I was like "wait, ignite spread might be really good on this one"

[mellow shale]

i guess those two stats together are as good as more magnitude, with the unfortunate exception that stacking those stats in the passive tree hits sharply diminishing returns since the multipliers are already large

[frosty finch]

So like, what if you use amethyst with the wildfire support gem ?

[dawn spire]

Careful you don't get more than 300% faster ignite in total or else it won't last long enough to spread (unless you take ignite duration to offset it)

[frosty finch]

Nvm, didnt see the reduced ignite duration

[dawn spire]

That's not too hard to offset

[frosty finch]

Does "increased fire damage" make ignite better ?

[dawn spire]

Yes

[frosty finch]

This is gonna be shit for killing bosses tho

[native surge]

Isn’t ignite like crap dps though

I was trying to run it with crossbows and the dps is literally in the hundreds

[dawn spire]

Base dps of ignite is 20% of the fire damage of the hit that inflicted it per second

[frosty finch]

Yeah but the ignite from incendiary shot is giga bugged

[native surge]

Yeah but only one hit, one hit ignite right

[dawn spire]

Bugged or buffed?

[native surge]

So that’s 20% of one hit over 4 seconds

[frosty finch]

Buffed*

[dawn spire]

20% per second for four seconds*

[slender furnace]

I mean you can Google the massive amounts of content creators that have done the math and know how to interpret it. Literally just go watch Dreamcores video on it

[native surge]

Yeah sorry that wasn’t clear

[north talon]

In the case of incendiary shot it is also 60% per second for... an amount of seconds that depends a lot

[native surge]

That sounds a lot better

[north talon]

I mean I saw that video, I just disagree with the conclusions and the basline numbers

[quiet forge]

No, it's elemental, far higher on average

[slender furnace]

Its math...what do you disagree with

[north talon]

His baseline of 25k armor for an armor invested character is VERY low for starters

My armor characters have been 88k armor, and 107k armor

[native surge]

Idk about more duration tbh

I guess it’s fine

[quiet forge]

Are you using the "gain armor during animation" thing?

[north talon]

For the 107k yes, for the 88k no

[frosty finch]

There is 10 projectiles in each shot

[quiet forge]

They removed that sadly, how does your 88k stack it?

[dawn spire]

With the duration per pellet, blackflame should be no issue

[native surge]

Yeah but the ignite isn’t that much dps

[north talon]

That wasn't in the patch notes, the removed the evasion one and the stun one but not the armor one

[native surge]

So I don’t really care about how long it is

[frosty finch]

Damn thats true

[north talon]

I want Incendiary shot to be good so I am going to try it. It is getting buffed pretty hard, but it was also pretty awful before

[native surge]

I guess we will have to see ignite numbers and nodes

[dawn spire]

Sorry let me clarify: Once ignite is inflicted it cannot be affected by any of your damage modifiers (it still gets affected by stuff on the enemy like shock though). Increased fire damage boosts the fire damage of your hit which will, in turn, boost the base damage of the ignite your hit inflicts

[frosty finch]

I disagree it was really decent for mapping

[native surge]

Right now it’s just really bad damage

[north talon]

I personally think it was by far the worst shotgun skill in every use case

And a lot of the shotgun skills were not great

[frosty finch]

Worst than the ice one ?

[native surge]

Basically every crossbow skill that relied on ignite in .2 was dog

[north talon]

yeah, Ice one got herald of ice stuff at least

[frosty finch]

Incendiary shot didnt rely on ignite

[native surge]

Like I’ve been pobing ignite in .2 on crossbows and it’s just terrible damage

[dawn spire]

Witchhunter incendiary shot to ignite and then weapon swap firestorm

[native surge]

I had to completely switch my build

[north talon]

I wanted to play a shotgunner in 0.2.0 but I ended up on fragmentation rounds bleed

[native surge]

I’m using explosive shot to detonate nades

Gonna do the same thing with mortar totems in .3

Great damage and clear

[north talon]

And Galvanic was very clearly the best shotgun skill

and it probably still is tbh

[native surge]

Explosive shot right w scatter is really fucking good damage

Throw in the grenades and you’re crusing

[frosty finch]

Regardless, titan is still the best shotgun class right ?

[north talon]

Probably

[native surge]

Idk

Deadeye or tactician probably

[frosty finch]

Crushing blow is just insane

[north talon]

Shotguns actually don't get that much from deadeye tbh

[native surge]

True yeah but the new deadeye just seems very very good

And galv shot deadeye was good last league anyway

[north talon]

Amazon probably also good

[native surge]

Yeah Amazon is also good

Was good in .2

[quiet forge]

Infusion amazon best way to play her now

[native surge]

Most played xbow classes in .2 Amazon deadeye then tactician

[north talon]

I did a pathfinder once and it was fun just for the faster move while shooting. Not like good but it was fun

[quiet forge]

Tangletongue was broken cheese nobody should have had access to

[quiet forge]

I wish she could just remove it, or like, moved faster instead or something

[north talon]

I mean no slow would actually be busted tbh

[frosty finch]

Incinerate is probably just gonna be best for pathfinder anyway

[olive tide]

so you cant use snap on orb spells anymore?

[quiet forge]

compared to tailwind?

[north talon]

honestly yes

no movement penalty means you just don't get hit by things

also giga clear speed

[quiet forge]

So people would actually stop playing deadeye? Sounds perfect

[frosty finch]

Machine gun pathfinders also seem very fun

[hidden siren]

i feel like a lot of ppl that will play deadeye is only bc someone else said that deadeye is strong without doing any of their own research

[dreamy bridge]

damn just checked and yeah they updated it to not snap orbs, just frostbolt

[frosty finch]

I still hesitate between totems and shotgun but at least i know i'm going warrior

[north talon]

I mean deadeye is pretty genericly strong so they will still do alright

personally I am not a huge fan of it though since it is so generic

[dreamy bridge]

for me, huntress will be a 2nd/3rd character this patch. I still have to die on my hill of blood mage

Blood Hunt: Explosion now causes Life Loss rather than unscalable damage.
Can anyone explain the difference? What mods affect life loss?

[slender furnace]

Or ya know...many of us have 10 plus years experience playing poe and can easily spot a surefire winner when we see one

[hidden siren]

never said those didnt exist but ok

[quiet forge]

this fixes a bug that allows you to critically hit on bleeds, which magnified itself exponentially and did way too much damage on bosses

[hidden siren]

im talking about what i feel from observing chat

people taking a tier list at face value calling warrior shit when its not

[slender furnace]

People follow builds...more news at 11

[frosty finch]

Most people just build what streamers build

[slender furnace]

Warrior is shit. It can still one shot bosses sure. Every class im sure will have a build to do so...warrior is just ass though comparatively. Slow and has the worst defense.

[quiet forge]

no it doesn't

and it's as fast as you can cancel animations

[frosty finch]

Nah warrior is pretty dogshit compared to most other classes lol

[quiet forge]

with access to gap crossing

what else do you want?

[slender furnace]

When everything can one shot bosses in some way, movement and defense is king

[frosty finch]

I'll still play warrior regardless

[carmine escarp]

Yeah, I’m curious what Life Loss is as well

[quiet forge]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Loss

[slender furnace]

This is a clueless statement

[gray ferry]

Hello, do totems snapshot weapon stats?

[dawn spire]

Yes

[frosty finch]

Yes in 0.3 it will

[slender furnace]

Presumably

[gray ferry]

Thank you 🙂‍↕️

[dawn spire]

Even in 0.2 I'm pretty sure they do

If you raise a totem with +levels in your weapon and swap off I think the totem retains those levels

[slender furnace]

It doesnt use your weapon stats in .2

[upbeat oak]

Which of the mods for weapons only apply to attacks made with that weapon? Specifically wondering about life/mana per kill, life per hit, and life/mana leech. I know stuff like added damage and crit chance are local to the weapon.

[dawn spire]

It uses +levels from your weapon

[slender furnace]

Yeah i saw your follow up makes sense I get what your saying

[frosty finch]

4 shockwave totems will be funny

[dawn spire]

No one can stop my chaos dot tactician tho

Tactician is the only source of +1 dark effigy I'm pretty sure

[frosty finch]

Shockwave totem triggers forge hammer right ?

[quiet forge]

I love how you creatures sling around the most binary statements like "X class is shit" without even having a chance to play the new mechanics on them

[frosty finch]

Warrior is not shit until you have to face arbiter

[dawn spire]

#2┃general?

Oh, I didn't see exo call warrior shit, sorry

Thought it was a nonsequitur

[frosty finch]

I mean it kinda is lol, doesnt mean i wont play it

[dawn spire]

In what way? Warriors won the race events I'm pretty sure

[quiet forge]

warrior has the best scaling atm it feels like, point out to me which class has access to not 1 but 2 sources of increased unique damage

[dawn spire]

Though that was with perfect strike which got nerfed, I think?

[dawn spire]

What is "increased unique damage"?

[quiet forge]

Exactly what it sounds like

More damage to uniques

[dawn spire]

Increased ¡= more

[quiet forge]

More

[north talon]

Warrior is decent nut maces suffer from poor AS scaling as thier big limiter

[frosty finch]

Idk i feel like the class is super slow, armor is bad

[dawn spire]

You said "It's exactly what it sounds like" and then proceeded to conflate increased with more lmao

Also battershout isn't exclusive to warrior, unless it's an ascendancy skill I'm forgetting

[frosty finch]

What is the difference between more and increased exactly ?

[quiet forge]

It's not exclusive, but it's designed for them and they have the most mechanics to make use of it

[quiet forge]

One is additive the other is multiplicative

[north talon]

more multiplies damage, increased combines into a single multiplier

[dawn spire]

Increases all sum together into one big multiplier, whereas every "more" is its own separate multiplier

[frosty finch]

Gotcha

Thanks

I had no idea lol

[slender furnace]

Its not hard when you aren't a noob to make an educated assumption around whats shit

[quiet forge]

there it is again

stop adhomming me

[dawn spire]

Says the person who called their interlocutor a "creature" lmfao

[slender furnace]

Thats not exactly true. If you get 25% more area damage in multiple places it's not separate. Just like with increased

[slender furnace]

You mean like you ad hominem everyone else? Hypocrite much?

[frosty finch]

I dont understand why ancestral blood isnt just a warrior ascendency node

Without negatives that come with it

[quiet forge]

Haven't been. If you've got an example I'd love to see it, here I'm only responding to you, but we're not making much ground so I'm not sure why I even bother

[dawn spire]

You mean giant's blood?

[frosty finch]

Yeah sorry lol

It would make sense in titan

[dawn spire]

@quiet forge

[frosty finch]

And would be very flavorful

[quiet forge]

So this is okay?

[dawn spire]

"You creatures"

[slender furnace]

You called me a creature

[quiet forge]

So true besties, mb, next time I'll let people do whatever they want

<3

[dawn spire]

They attacked your statement, not you

[slender furnace]

Im not the one crying. I just pointed out youre a hypocrite

[dawn spire]

At least in that example

[frosty finch]

We could also stop calling people "noob" AND "creatures", stay civil and welcoming, idk

[quiet forge]

More my point than whatever the fuck you're on about ye

Whatever, let's get back to warrior, it's not that deep

[dawn spire]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Having the ability to use two handers with one hand might make sense to have on warrior for now, but once swords come out it'll feel pretty bad to have a 2h dex/str weapon only equippable in one hand with warrior.

[quiet forge]

I am worried about that ye, do we know if you're able to swap between weapon classes or not?
Like mace + sword/axe for example, you'd get locked out I think?

[dawn spire]

Also it's giant's blood, it has nothing to do with your class or abilities. It's a part of your heritage. Any class can have giant's blood in their veins

[frosty finch]

Titans should have free giants blood then

[quiet forge]

Dual wielded

[dawn spire]

You can already do this

[quiet forge]

you're able to dual wield cross-tree weapons?

[dawn spire]

Do you mean dual wield or weapon swap?

[quiet forge]

Specifically dual-wielded. Weapon swap I already know would work.

[dawn spire]

Unfortunately we don't have any weapons we can dual wield aside from maces so I'm not sure

[quiet forge]

Spear + Mace

[dawn spire]

Oh, forgot about spear

Can you wield spear + mace?

[quiet forge]

At least, spear is one-hand, I don't know if it lets you do spear+spear

[frosty finch]

Pretty sure you cant

[north talon]

wands technically, though they are not martial weapons

[dawn spire]

Pretty sure you can't dual wield wands

[quiet forge]

they might have to code it in by hand, sounds like a pain

let me check

[north talon]

can you not?

[dawn spire]

Though maybe I'm dumb

[north talon]

Tbh I have not really played casters like at all in PoE2

[dawn spire]

Wands
Wands are One-Handed Spellcasting weapons that require Intelligence to equip.

Wands cannot be Dual Wielded and cannot be used to Attack directly. However, they grant inbuilt Spells based on the wand type and powerful bonuses to spells.

Just maces

[north talon]

guess I was too PoE1 pilled with wands

[frosty finch]

@north talon btw, max quality incendiary shot has +45% duration per pellet so up to +450% duration

[quiet forge]

Okay

[dawn spire]

Duration isn't really that impactful as long as you can keep 100% ignite uptime

[north talon]

Yeah, not sure how useful that is overall but it does exist.

It does play well with the 200% faster ignites but overall it is not a huge stat

[frosty finch]

Duration would be pretty useful to spread ignite more easily

[north talon]

200% faster ignites though is a GREAT modifier for ignites

[frosty finch]

Its not game changing but its more comfortable

[dawn spire]

Does wildfire keep spreading after the first second?

Ie, does it spread from enemies that were not initially hit?

[north talon]

Also I want to know what Arbiter's Ignition linage support does

[quiet forge]

okay yeah this should just be 1:1 accurate

[frosty finch]

Idk about the support gem but it does for the unique ring

So i guess it does

[dawn spire]

Oh, interesting. Does that mean claws are going to be like wings of entropy in poe1 where they're a two handed item that acts like dual wielding?

[north talon]

With Ignite + Armor break as well, I probably will end up playing some weird Crossbow + Mace hybrid to take advantage of some of the support synergies for bossing like this.

[dawn spire]

Also, if shadow is getting claws, who tf is going to be heralding traps? 0.0

[quiet forge]

More likely, you'll have one unique claw and one rare claw

[dawn spire]

That doesn't answer my question at all lmao

[fresh geyser]

Somebody give me a recommendation for a class an ascendancy. I mostly play on the steam deck at work so it needs to be something I can zoom through endgame maps while dealing with doo doo FPS that goes down into the single digits. I played around 600 hours as a witch infernalist during the initial launch of the game, but I struggled to clear maps as fast as I wanted, took around 10-15 minutes. A minion build probably doesn't help with so much going on in the screen but it was helpful because the minions did all the work anyway. So now I'm wondering if I should just go back to a minion build or try something else. Any other steam deck players out there familiar with the struggle? Or anybody in general recommend something that plays well despite a lot of lag? I just want to clear stuff fast and wreck bosses.

[frosty finch]

Interesting, this makes shotgun build viable non titan ascendencies right ?

[north talon]

idk maybe. It is a weird niche support gem that has existed for a while but I want to shove it in somewhere

[quiet forge]

It should, presumably when wings gets ported it would just be 1 claw that counts as both weapon slots

[frosty finch]

Probably totem builds

[quiet forge]

can't you wear 1 claw with shield?

[dawn spire]

Firstly I'd recommend checking out hellclock. It plays great on the deck and it's like a fusion between hades and poe.

Secondly, I'd recommend probably something that uses a nova skill or that requires little aiming, like spark or incinerate.

[dawn spire]

In poe2, no idea

[quiet forge]

in 1

obviously it won't be guaranteed to act the same, but it's a safe guess

[dawn spire]

I don't mean, literally, "How are they going to port over wings of entropy?" wings of entropy is a two handed axe that acts as if you're dual wielding.

[static torrent]

Not in PoE2, no.

[dawn spire]

I mean, are all claws in poe2 going to be like that where they're a single item that goes into one slot and cats as if you're dual wielding?

Ah, I didn't know we had that

[quiet forge]

there we go

[dawn spire]

The thing scintilla posted made it seem like you couldn't wield a claw unless you were dual wielding with another

[quiet forge]

don't think you can

or rather

it's either 1 claw or 2, nothing else

[frosty finch]

I think it says you can wear only 1 claw if you want but there is no point since you can only have another claw when you have a claw

[dawn spire]

Yeah, that page is misleading then. "Claws can only be dual Wielded (with another claw)"

[quiet forge]

That was the dual-wielding article, so presumably it was talking only about dual-wielding

[north talon]

PoE2 isn't getting claws I thought

[dawn spire]

I would remove the emphasis and the parentheses for clarity

Might do that when I get home

[static torrent]

There hasn't been any official statement about them getting removed.

[dawn spire]

They're in the works. There are nodes on the tree for claws. They'll be released with shadow presumably

[static torrent]

There are no nodes for Claws.

[frosty finch]

They talked about swords but not claws

[quiet forge]

wouldn't shadow get daggers?

[north talon]

I mean they have not been in ANY of the materials talking about weapons coming to the game ever

[static torrent]

Traps and Daggers.

[unreal sierra]

not sure for what class it would be if not shadow

[slender furnace]

Second hell clock

[quiet forge]

yeah, wrong side of the tree

[quiet forge]

Druid.

[static torrent]

They were in Exilecon 2023 and Viper has talked about them a number of times.

[dawn spire]

Sorry, there are nodes that give generic damage that are in the shape of claws

[static torrent]

Shapeshifting nodes

[quiet forge]

claws are for the druid's forms most likely

[static torrent]

They're literally called Shapeshifting

[unreal sierra]

its kinda hard for me to imagine it str/int, but makes sense ig

[quiet forge]

Templar is

[dawn spire]

Yeah, my bad. Druid is claws, shadow is traps. Phew. Traps are safe

[static torrent]

Claws are pure Dexterity, so nothing to do with Druid.

[frosty finch]

Druid is claws ? I thought claws were pure dex

[quiet forge]

then who? Marauder? Lol

[dawn spire]

Wait you're right. Now I'm confused

[unreal sierra]

we had dex claws in poe2?

now im even more confused lol

[frosty finch]

Btw what weapons are gonna be str / int ?

[dawn spire]

Flail

[frosty finch]

Flails ?

[static torrent]

Flails, Sceptres

[frosty finch]

Right

[quiet forge]

See, thing is

Claw isn't on here

So it has to be for druid because he's the only one without a weapon

[unreal sierra]

it would need to be druid yh unless they will go full unarmed

[static torrent]

Druid is Staves and Sceptres

Shapeshifting (prior to Demon Form with 0.3) disables your weapons, so it doesn't have an association weapon type.

[unreal sierra]

staves is sorc clearly

[quiet forge]

But both full dex classes are already released

[static torrent]

Both Druid and Sorceress get Staves.

[quiet forge]

So it won't match either of them, duelist won't care(swords), marauder is axes, etc

[unreal sierra]

i dont see how, when they are very stuck on class->weapon association rn

[quiet forge]

what if they undid this and now that's for them?

[frosty finch]

To me it would make sense that druid would focus on staves

[unreal sierra]

and staves are int

[quiet forge]

hmm

[static torrent]

Claws are still pure Dexterity, plus having to have both weapon sets equipped to swap between Spells and Shapeshifting wouldn't be convenient

[frosty finch]

Yeah and they dont need martial weapons since they transform into animals

[dawn spire]

Maybe they'll just add claws later as a dex weapon without a class tie

[unreal sierra]

is there any confirmed into that claws are dex

[frosty finch]

Pure speculation there

[static torrent]

Scroll up

[north talon]

I remain skeptical of claws being a thing but we will see

[dawn spire]

@unreal sierra

[quiet forge]

i still figure it makes the most sense on druid

[static torrent]

They're in the 100% Dexterity section, and the items we have in the files are also all pure Dexterity.

[unreal sierra]

i feel it will end up outdated

[quiet forge]

maybe shadow will get them, but it's the wrong side of the tree

[unreal sierra]

it doesnt fit both amazon nor ranger right now imo

[static torrent]

No, because again, the intention with the Primal skills is that you can swap between Spells and Shapeshifting. Requiring both weapon sets to be filled for it would be somewhat inconvenient.

[dawn spire]

I think a huntress using a shapeshift skill fits equally well

[north talon]

Claws also have no skill section, meaning either they are just reskinned daggers or they aren't a thing

[static torrent]

The skill tabs are just renamed Class tabs

There's also nothing for Traps, but we know those exist

[north talon]

We don't know if traps have assosiated skills though or if they only use granted skills

[slender furnace]

It actually doesnt. Claws are fast attacking weapons. Bear aint a fast attacking character.

[static torrent]

They will.

[unreal sierra]

well its all speculation, in the end they can change things on the spot, even remove it entirely

its early access after all

[quiet forge]

he isn't, but he'd need his own base damages then, which wouldn't really be that hard to put in ig

[static torrent]

They talked about how it worked back at Exilecon 2023, the Trap weapon type determines the detonation type, then there are skills that you can use with them.

[dawn spire]

Well if we're using that logic then druid might not even be real

[quiet forge]

Druid is definitely in

[unreal sierra]

not really, druid is almost finished

[dawn spire]

I know, that's my point

[north talon]

I mean they certainly can be, and there are non bear forms that likely are faster traditionally

[unreal sierra]

claws arent even in the game

[dawn spire]

Neither is druid

[unreal sierra]

i mean we've seen bugged traps or swords

[quiet forge]

haven't people dropped them before? I remember seeing people linking their swords in global

[unreal sierra]

dropping

[slender furnace]

They will just tie it to staves is my guess, because after the blood change, they realize no weapon sucks

[north talon]

Honestly if claws ARE real that means shadow's skills are getting split 3 ways which kind of sucks

[slender furnace]

Yeah some bugged drops.

[dawn spire]

Why does that suck? Witch is already split between bone, minion, and chaos

Sorc is fire, cold, lightning

[north talon]

Becasue you get fewer release skills per type

[dawn spire]

Warrior has slams, warcries, and shield skills

[quiet forge]

it's just harder to branch out, the best one at doing it will be new sorceress

[dawn spire]

How do you know that? We have no idea what the tree or nodes will look like

There might be clusters that give trap, dagger, and claw damage for all we know

[wheat radish]

Will the Warrior still be good enough for endgame after the 0.3 changes?

[static torrent]

Yes

[north talon]

I mean in your examples the multi category stuff supports each other, but daggers and claws would be direct competitors for use

[dawn spire]

Yes, along with every class

[north talon]

rather than mechanics supporting each other

[dawn spire]

Unless they have weapon swap synergy

[quiet forge]

you could only scale with attack damage, or at least be stuck using weapon swaps for both types

[wheat radish]

Nice thanks guys! Everyone on YouTube is dooming him and I got scared to use him

[quiet forge]

Which, granted, isn't that bad now

[dawn spire]

We've gone far past build planning and ventured into #2┃general territory imo

Let's talk chaos dot tactician

Thoughts?

[bitter ore]

Why tactician?

[quiet forge]

have we? I am assuredly playing shadow on his release

[dawn spire]

Extra dark effigy

[quiet forge]

:^)

[dawn spire]

Tactician is the only source of an extra dark effigy totem now, I'm pretty sure

And placing it grants 40% inc damage over time

It's far from chaos damage nodes, but maybe they'll add generic damage over time clusters with the tree overhaul

For bleed/poison/ignite and such

[quiet forge]

dark effigy only cares that there ARE dots, not how big they are

you're really aiming to see projectile damage on it

[dawn spire]

Right, but I'll also be using ED+Contagion

And that's good damage

[quiet forge]

yes, so you'll get 2 shots

[dawn spire]

Dark effigy is for single target, but I still want lots of damage for ED+Contagion

[quiet forge]

you already have generic damage from any projectile node

[bitter ore]

Doesn't limit apply to totems? (I haven't played them yet)

[quiet forge]

yeah

[dawn spire]

My plan is to hopefully get damage over time and proj damage near merc until I can reach the juicy chaos clusters at the north of the tree

[dawn spire]

It does, but tactician adds one to said limit

[dawn spire]

Yeah, but relying solely on dark effigy for clearing sounds bad. And I don't get it til later in the campaign. I'll definitely want ED to have some oomph

[bitter ore]

Yeh just saying there's like 2 from uniques and 1 from support

[dawn spire]

Wait are there? Which ones?

I thought those were only for attack totems

[bitter ore]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Totem

Hard to type. On phone at work 😁

[quiet forge]

you might be better off leveling with a bow or spear at least until you can path to huntress's nodes

[dawn spire]

Ooh, overabundance

Hmmmm

Forgot about soul mantle as well

[bitter ore]

Is poison stacking dark effigy a thing?

[dawn spire]

I don't think so? Though if each stack adds a proj...

[quiet forge]

i'm still looking into witch hunter's changes

[bitter ore]

Yeh that's what I'm wondering

[dawn spire]

The wiki doesn't mention anything about multiple poison stacks but it should be easy to test

[bitter ore]

It might count as 1 tbf

[dawn spire]

Yeah I only ever tried one

[quiet forge]

you do get a shot from poison but afaik they get combined

if you want the next one, you need to use curses

[hoary bolt]

its 1 proj per type

[dawn spire]

Yeah I never tried getting more than 1 max poison

[hoary bolt]

poison only adds 1 proj

[quiet forge]

also, fun fact: totems can get archmage

[dawn spire]

Source? This is the gem text:
"Fires multiple Projectiles at enemies afflicted by multiple Debuffs"

[bitter ore]

Acolyte of chalupa dark effigy

Insane burst with volatility maybe

[quiet forge]

now; how about witchhunter? crossbow's grenades on a totem with spear to detonate them

[hoary bolt]

poison is a debuff

multiple stacks of it is still 1 debuff type

[dawn spire]

Witchhunter grenade mortar? I sleep.

Chronomancer grenade mortar?

[hoary bolt]

this has been tested by various people

it only counts as 1 no matter how many stacks

[dawn spire]

Right, but the gem didn't say it was based on the number of types, just the number of debuffs. If people tested it I'll do some digging

[quiet forge]

I wanna combine with kaom's ancestral cry + forge hammer, so we could drop the crossbow and go spear/mace

[hoary bolt]

also there is that infinite poison spear

with that it would spawn hundreds of projectiles, but it doesnt

[dawn spire]

Ah, good to know

[dawn spire]

Why spear?

Oh, detonate

[quiet forge]

Mercenary has starting projectile nodes, so it feels advantageous to lean into things that have [Projectile] tag

[silk mason]

I need help. I wanna try unarmed monk, but I also wanna do witch minions.

[quiet forge]

molten blast is a fire projectile attack, for example

[bitter ore]

Anyone got any ideas for elemental sundering? Sorc arc + detonate or fire skill blackflame chayula for more ailments

[quiet forge]

and yeah, explosive spear / thunderous leap

[bitter ore]

Spell dmg = attack dmg hat

[dawn spire]

Are you asking for help to pick one, or to find a way to combine both into one build?

[dawn spire]

Don't even need blackflame with that new fire-> chaos keystone

[quiet forge]

Also there's an adorable new unique 2h mace in 0.3

That sets up damage really well

[bitter ore]

I thought that was blackflame Im Forgetting names maybe.

[dawn spire]

Blackflame is the amethyst ring that makes ignites deal chaos

[quiet forge]

you're both right

blackflame[covenant]

[bitter ore]

Though if it takes almost 6 secs to apply 3 ailments that's not going to be that good

[quiet forge]

caster chalupa got nerfed, elemental sundering in general is limited by an internal cooldown of like 1s so it will probably not hit 20 stacks in a realistic scenario

[quiet forge]

thunderous leap is a type of slam, so you can throw the hammer and then jump on it

maybe with infernal cry?

[frosty finch]

"Reduced attack speed"

Seriously ?

[north talon]

I mean it makes perfect sense here

[quiet forge]

Yeah but you can use it with a secondary weapon that strikes much faster

[bitter ore]

Even in poe 1 that weapon was slow

[quiet forge]

like I can just pop over to spear for disengage or something

[north talon]

It also was reduced AS in PoE1 :P

[quiet forge]

Heavy stun causes a lot of bullshit to happen now

so having it proc on every mob is fucking crazy to me

[silk mason]

oh uh. whichh one should i pick as a starter?

[frosty finch]

So this weapon who will probably require 300 strength, you wanna use giants blood with it ?

[silk mason]

im leaning minions because unarmed might require more gear

[frosty finch]

Probably more like 260 strength

You need 800 strength

[quiet forge]

no

I mean, I'll wear two of them if I can

but I meant weapon set 2

[frosty finch]

Ohh weapon swap ok

[quiet forge]

also attribute requirements got reduced

[frosty finch]

So the idea is just to use this to stun ?

[quiet forge]

yeah

[dawn spire]

I'd go minions for sure. They require way less gear and are strong even in ssf

[frosty finch]

Idk man, i feel like stunning is pretty easy

[ancient lodge]

Anyone have big plans for Chayula Monk?
No matter how I look at it, I just cant seem to make it work 😅
Best bet so far is big ignites with Blackflame, but then again the ascendancy has nothing in terms of defense/utility

[north talon]

Stunning pinnicles is not super easy, but this auto does it

[ancient lodge]

The aesthetic is S tier though, so I probably will end up rolling it one way or another

[quiet forge]

it's easy but i want it for consistency and it will work on bosses too

armor explosion and battershout both seem like great options to take advantage of advantage state

[north talon]

Being able to just 1 tap stun Uber Arbiter is going to be useful for someone for sure

[quiet forge]

you can also take nodes for more damage while stunned

[dawn spire]

In 0.2 I wanted to go a darkness and mana-> es leech acolyte and it looked promising for hardcore. But now I don't really know what it does. Personally I'd recommend darkness at least for leveling. It's an insanely large boost to ehp early on

[quiet forge]

Also this build has decimating strike

so bullshit that happens on full life is funny in general

[eternal pilot]

Does banners snapshot with weapon swaps?

[dawn spire]

What do you mean?

Like if you take banner nodes, place banner, and swap to a tree without those nodes?

[eternal pilot]

yeah

[dawn spire]

I think that'll snapshot

[eternal pilot]

Just asking cause warcrys couldnt be used like that

But I assume its safer to assume banner/totems would snapshot

[dawn spire]

What do you mean warcries couldn't?

Like you use a warcry with bonuses to them on the tree, swap, and then the attacks didn't have the extra effects?

[eternal pilot]

Yeah

[dawn spire]

I wager that's different because the buff is tracked on you instead of another entity

But I'm not certain, haven't tested

I'm kinda sad that we can only have one type of mortar totem at once. I would have loved to have three different kinds shooting explosive, cluster, and the oil one

I cannot fucking wait to see the mortar totem stats so I can decide if I'm gonna go all in on mortar totem chronomancer

If the totems shoot quickly but are gated by cdrr, then chronomancer is gonna be pretty exciting

[rigid edge]

Bois is there a reason not to go Chayula monk with the new blackflame covenant keystone and spam chaos ignites all over the place? I feel like there has to be something I'm missing other than ignite being kinda meh

[dawn spire]

Just run around and let the mortar do the work while you recoup and rift to full life the whole time

[slender furnace]

I tried, but I think its really a better end game ascendancy. Ill probably play it after I farm up on dead eye

[dawn spire]

There isn't really much reason to go chaos over fire in normal circumstances, but chayula getting extra as chaos definitely helps. But yeah, the main issue is that ignite is meh

But with darkness and big chaos Ignites, you have a pretty safe playstyle for hardcore. Take big hit, run around until reservation expires, repeat. All the while your Ignites are ticking

But then again, chaos dot sounds like the same thing but better

[rigid edge]

Gotcha. Still juggling between some builds. Hope they buff ignite at some point or there's a new support for it that they just didn't show

One of those lineage memes

[lucid pawn]

Run two characters.

[north talon]

blackflame covenant affects fire spells though. It doesn't make chaos skills ignite

[rigid edge]

Yeah I'd be converting fire spells to chaos damage.

[lucid pawn]

Minions are a nice easy way to start things up. they might get tricky on the high end, but they're very straightforward lower.

[quiet forge]

Chalupa isn't a DoT ascendancy, damage gained as X doesn't support DoTs

You need to scale up for massive hits, he wants skills like fs and ft

[dawn spire]

You don't need to take the damage gained as x though

[quiet forge]

then there isn't really a point to going chalupa, being fair

[dawn spire]

Though tbh I haven't looked at the full chayula tree. Idk if it's possible to do that anymore. And even chaos dot builds still use dark effigy which benefits from that

[rigid edge]

I was hoping to scale big with volatility and pick up the leech from chalupa

[dawn spire]

Oh yeah chaos leech

Yeah don't go chaos dot chalupa lmao

[quiet forge]

that's the only & biggest thing chalupa has; volatile spell was supposedly removed

[rigid edge]

Sadge

[quiet forge]

you could have at least relied on vol but now idk if you can get 200 for bosses

[dawn spire]

I mean you could still go darkness, chaos res, and the remnant thing. Just pick non-purple flames

[quiet forge]

ew

[dawn spire]

You get full "value"

[rigid edge]

Honestly I'd rather just not play at that point xd

[unreal sierra]

seems really weak for ascendency

[dawn spire]

Seems pretty good for hardcore

Maybe

[left ledge]

Can you preform an unarmed attack while wielding a scepter and shield?

[dawn spire]

Results pending

[rigid edge]

I'm not brave enough for hc

[quiet forge]

bro loved grim feast so much he needs to relive it any way he can

[quiet forge]

I've seen a bilibili vid that seems to suggest offhands are fine

[dawn spire]

Bruh I never used it

[quiet forge]

i'm just being facetious

[dawn spire]

My best hc was a seismic cry spamming gemling in 0.1. It was my only char to beat the campaign. I'm bad at hc.

[ancient lodge]

How did you find it scale into endgame?
I was considering Darkness + CI as a defensive setup, but I am unsure if 1 asc nodes + no spirit for ~800 eHP is good enough

[rigid edge]

Oh right volatility is just that you gain % of damage as chaos. Of course it doesn't work with dot stuff

[dawn spire]

Well I never got past the campaign so I can't say lol. My plan was to scale crit damage, freeze a boss, and snipe it. but now snipe doesn't auto crit so that's harder to do.

[quiet forge]

CI sucks now

[ancient lodge]

How so?

[quiet forge]

No way to restore ES

You'll get oneshot

[ancient lodge]

Without leech you mean?

Isnt recharge enough?

[quiet forge]

not under extreme pressure

especially not without spirit supports

[dawn spire]

Volatility also doesn't synergize with chalupa anyway. If you have 100% gained as extra chaos, that's 100% more damage than before. But going from 100% to 200% gained as chaos is only 50% more than before

[left ledge]

Yeah I know offhand are fine but I was wondering as a primary. Reason being is I need a strike skill for my thrones build and there are no strike skills for scepter. I could always do a weapon swap but I’m lazy. I’ve used a quarter staff and the unarmed attacks bypass the quarter staff but I wasn’t sure if it would use the same as a scepter.

[dawn spire]

Chronomancer would like a word with you

[ancient lodge]

Wouldnt Darkness help here?

To take the hits while recharge kicks in

[dawn spire]

Recharge won't start if you're taking darkness damage

Unless you use Convalescence

[ancient lodge]

Wat

[dawn spire]

All damage stops your es recharge

[ancient lodge]

Ew

[dawn spire]

No matter where it goes

But nothing stops your darkness reservation from disappearing

[quiet forge]

if you're going CI, you're married to soul tether or essentia sanguis

[dawn spire]

I think darkness is gonna be pretty nice. Especially early on

[quiet forge]

but since soul tether deletes your ES

it's literally only essentia

[frosty finch]

Will an ignite from the same skill cull ?

[dawn spire]

Dots cannot cull. Only hits can

[ancient lodge]

So ES with spells is FUBAR, is the take 😅

[frosty finch]

Alright

[dawn spire]

???

Chronomancer is nuts with CI

[ancient lodge]

What does it have to do with ES?

[dawn spire]

You can go:

1. Temporal rift. Solved.
   And/or:
2. Cooldown reduction the fuck out of Convalescence

One of the top hcssf players in 0.2 was a cold chrono abusing the hell out of convalesence. Nearly permanent uptime

[quiet forge]

rift is a cooldown, also he wasn't talking about chrono

[dawn spire]

Oh, I didn't see this was specifically with spell chalupa

[ancient lodge]

Chayla really seems DoA

[dawn spire]

Yeah they said they want to make recharge basically the only way to recover es

[ancient lodge]

I was also theorycrafting melee leech CI with the leech node, but then you essentially want both OSin and Essentia Sanguis, locking you out of 2 key sources of leech

[dawn spire]

I disagree personally. 75% chaos res and loads of darkness is pretty strong vs lots of small weak hits and for infrequent large ones

[slender furnace]

You can't use spirit anymore though...I think darkness is doa with no auras

[dawn spire]

You can use the flames of chayula skill and stick supports on there like vitality and clarity

[fathom notch]

Do we know the phys scaling per gem level for hollow palm yet?

[ancient lodge]

Also 1500 darkness is not that big of an eHP layer

[ancient lodge]

These still cost spirit to add

[slender furnace]

And none of the strongest persistent buffs

I think chayula is playable, but not darkness

[ancient lodge]

How do you build defense on it tho?

[dawn spire]

Do they? They didn't in 0.2

[ancient lodge]

I was thinking ES/EV CI, but it sounds like ES is more lackluster than I expected

[dawn spire]

Oh did they patch that?

[dawn spire]

Aw shit

[slender furnace]

Evasion plus suppression same as any right side. Maybe hybrid depends on suppress

[dawn spire]

Why not go void illusion ignite with chalupa? The illusion bomb seems pretty strong

[unreal sierra]

chayula seems playable just without darkness

[ancient lodge]

I believe its phys dmg

[slender furnace]

I thought that looked like ass lol

[quiet forge]

Maybe for later mapping

Should be fine early

Monk gets pressured stupidly easily and has to dodge roll fucking constantly if it's a shitter build

[slender furnace]

Thats meaningless

[ancient lodge]

You mean Quarterstaff?

[slender furnace]

Every class dodges constantly

[quiet forge]

I have really been struggling to justify quarterstaff in general

[woven otter]

Best chayula monk for me was instant ES leech since I played phys

[ancient lodge]

Plan is Blackflame ignite

So plenty of space to dodge

[woven otter]

But instant leech gone RIP

[ancient lodge]

And collect flames 🙃

[quiet forge]

Melee in general dodges constantly

point is that it's 500% damage in a nice aoe

[north talon]

O.o I almost never dodge

[dawn spire]

You have 1599 by level 90

And 85% chaos res

[quiet forge]

I hate this node until we get divine flesh

[frosty finch]

Imagine building anything else than armour

[quiet forge]

Sorry

[teal dock]

Doing a blackflame ring Mace Chayula for sure

[ancient lodge]

Armor is b8 m8

[frosty finch]

The chaos mace with endurance support ?

[dawn spire]

I might just try going chaos dot chalupa now. But that chaos dot might be ignite :3

[teal dock]

I have thought of that, so most likely 😅

[ancient lodge]

Join the dark(ness) side

Flameblast is busted

[dawn spire]

Both darkness nodes, chaos res, and maybe volatility

[slender furnace]

Imagine playing armor...

[north talon]

imagine not playing armor :)

[teal dock]

I like energy shield+armor armors too much

[frosty finch]

I dont have to imagine, i get one shot by blue mobs everyday

[slender furnace]

You must be super geared

[quiet forge]

i mean, i'm going armor but i at least have the sense to combine it with deflection

maybe a shield

[slender furnace]

I dont think you understand how deflection works boss

[frosty finch]

Yes i'm on gear, how do you know ?

[dawn spire]

Which applies first, armour or deflection? Almost certainly armour, right?

[north talon]

armor

[slender furnace]

I die to the first whit mob I see!

[quiet forge]

I'm thinking 50-50 split between block chance and deflect chance

there are a bunch of guard generators now

[frosty finch]

Holy shit bro you're like a gigachad

[quiet forge]

it might be enough

[slender furnace]

Deflect is based on evasion bro

[quiet forge]

i'm aware

[dawn spire]

I'm so torn between chaos dot tactician, ignite chayula, and mortar cannon chrono. They ruined ignite pathfinder, those bastards

[quiet forge]

there's armor eva pieces

[slender furnace]

Then how are you getting deflect on armour? Unless your playing armor/ev hybrid which is bleh

[unreal sierra]

is it even worth going armor/eva in current state of the game

[slender furnace]

Jack of all trades, master of none...have pun dying g to white mobs

[slender furnace]

No

[north talon]

It might be okay, depending on how much deflection you need to cap

[dawn spire]

Seems fine with tactician

Gain % of armour as deflection

[quiet forge]

50% evasion felt like enough, guard will create the missing ehp that energy shield usually provides

and if it doesn't work i respec

nbd

[slender furnace]

Is this a stat weve seen?

[north talon]

only for Tactician

[frosty finch]

@north talon what do you think of avatar of fire on shotgun ignite ?

[slender furnace]

So yeah if you play that specific ascendancy it should be fine

[dawn spire]

The Polish That Gear Notable Passive Skill now provides Gain Deflection Rating equal to 20% of Armour, and no longer grants Gain 100% of Armour as extra Stun Threshold.

[north talon]

I remain skeptical that Avatar of fire is anything but bait with PoE2 conversion mechanics

[quiet forge]

i'm already going mercenary

[frosty finch]

I wonder how that works honestly

[quiet forge]

this is just poe hipsterism

if i wanted strong build id go deadeye LA

[slender furnace]

Yeah i mean that's fine...lets just not pretend some homebrew jank is somehow going to break the meta

[quiet forge]

i wasn't

[slender furnace]

Ok fair enough. I just think your about to have a bad time. PoE isn't really a game where dabbling in a bit of everything is good

[quiet forge]

The other ascend I was looking at is witchhunter would have sorcery ward anyway, that would surely help with the biggest issue as I hear is elemental damage

for the skills i was gonna lean on fire/phys/proj

[frosty finch]

Isnt witchhunter the ultimate swap class now ?

[quiet forge]

mace spear swap yeah

or crossbows idk yet

Because I'm going to target the marohi erqi, I'm gonna be generating a lot of heavy stuns, which regardless of mapping or bossing should be printing end charges

I can feed them to fortifying cry

[dawn spire]

My hcssf contenders pre-gems and pre-skill tree:
-Cold spell life blood mage
-Grenade mortar CI chrono
-Ignite chalupa with darkness
-Chaos dot tactician with deflect+armour+life

[frosty finch]

What skills does chayula use for ignite ?

[dawn spire]

Probably void illusion

I'll figure it out

Maybe flameblast

Need to see gems and tree

[austere reef]

Has anyone seen what gem level mortar cannon will be by chance?

[ancient lodge]

I think Void Illusion is an attack

[austere reef]

Could use any skill if you have a high amount of flat added fire damage from weapon/gloves/rings. with the new flammability mechanic you’ll be able to ignite with anything as long as you have some fire damage added or any source of Gain X% of damage as extra fire damage

[ancient lodge]

With weapon dmg and no conversion

So without something fancy, igniting with it might prove tricky

[ancient lodge]

You still want the igniting hit to be a big one though

[abstract grove]

witchhunters in 0.3 gonna be like

[teal dock]

Chaos Smith of Kitava was my first pick but since Blackflame Covenant is spells I’ll do Chayula and wait for an original sin lol

[ancient lodge]

Hol up, is Void illusion Marohi Erqi a thing q:?

[shut basalt]

4.8s cd

410% attack damage every 4.8s doesnt seem worth building around

[dawn spire]

I paused the reveal stream and saw the gem they used was level 15 and required 64. All I got

It also seemed like the grenade exploded on impact

[dawn spire]

It is if you ignite for 4.8s (:

[austere reef]

Yeah that’s what I saw too, I hope it’s available sooner, it could’ve just been that they were using a lvl 15 skill gem for it

[shut basalt]

true

[ancient lodge]

You still didnt answer my question: How do you plan to ignite q:?

AoF?

Its only 75% of dmg

[teal dock]

I guess I won’t use darkness. Avatar of Fire is cool for blackflame ring 😅

My last Chonk was using darkness for free chaos damage but that’s gone. Volatility tho…

[river moon]

Sorry to bother, is the passive tree info out yet?

[austere reef]

Negative ghost rider

[dawn spire]

Oh, does this not work if it's not converted first? 0.0

Blackflame Covenant. This Keystone converts Fire Damage to Chaos Damage, with this damage contributing to ignite chance and magnitude, and ignites inflicted with Fire Skills dealing Chaos Damage.

[river moon]

Thanks fam

[dawn spire]

I read "this damage" as "your chaos damage" at first

[teal dock]

Was recently dev confirmed to be off of spells only

[dawn spire]

Ah. Shit.

[teal dock]

that’s what I said

[quiet forge]

how much armor do you need for it to start feeling good against small hits?

[teal dock]

Was gonna do a blackflame perfect striker Smith of Kitava

[dawn spire]

Depends on the level of the mobs. It feels good in the campaign with like an armour chest with a good armour roll

[quiet forge]

79-82

[dawn spire]

No clue

Also depends on what your threshold of "feeling good" is. That varies by total ehp pool and recovery

[quiet forge]

@frosty finch aren't you the warrior guy

[teal dock]

I hope for a Chaos Templar of some kind

[frosty finch]

Uhhhh i wouldnt say i'm the warrior guy, i like the class tho

[quiet forge]

how much armor did you stack

[frosty finch]

15k

[summer pasture]

10k plus should feel fine against small hits especially in softcore

[frosty finch]

With brass dome

[teal dock]

Brass Jerome, new warrior name

[dawn spire]

I'm curious to learn what "Gain Deflection Rating equal to 20% of Armour" even fucking means

[frosty finch]

I really like brass dome

[dawn spire]

Is deflection like evasion where you have a flat amount that correlates into a % chance to deflect?

I was under the impression that you could get it to 100%, though. So maybe you can get it to 100%, but need to keep raising it as you go to higher tiers?

Seems jank

[sharp thorn]

Huh? That's illegal.

[quiet forge]

i was using evasion chestpiece but hmm

[flint tapir]

i believe you can get it to 100% chance but it wont deflect more than 40% of damage

[frosty finch]

Brass dome + blade catcher is op

On paper

[austere reef]

What’s blade catcher

[frosty finch]

Defend with 200% of armour when you take a crit

[dawn spire]

I thought the 40% was fixed

[austere reef]

Oh the notable near warrior start

[frosty finch]

Yeah

[flint tapir]

might be guess we’ll know in 2 days

[dawn spire]

Lmao, didn't realize that deflect is not even explained in the patch notes

[frosty finch]

So when mapping you wanna get the extra crits from mobs and it actually makes you tankier

[quiet forge]

yeah I'm getting around 8k

[frosty finch]

On warrior ?

[quiet forge]

Mercenary.

[frosty finch]

Ok maybe thats why

[quiet forge]

what nodes is warrior getting?

[frosty finch]

There is a node at the beginning of the tree that gives +80% armor from body piece

[dawn spire]

I GOT IT!
ditch ignite, go poison instead. Just get loads of duration and scale that one poison per illusion. Ez.

[quiet forge]

Oh here we go

[dawn spire]

80% increased armour, not +80%

[quiet forge]

yeah I have 16k now

[frosty finch]

Right

[quiet forge]

48% evasion

[frosty finch]

Not bad

[abstract grove]

it's gonna be sad if evasion with deflect is 10x better than stacking armor & life to the moon with applies to elemental, and block lol

[teal dock]

😔

[abstract grove]

im a believer i want to armour stack

[teal dock]

I wanna use Armor and Energy shield lol

[quiet forge]

now how much life have you got?

[abstract grove]

armour and es synergizes so much less than es/ev no?

[quiet forge]

If I go spear, I gain access to shields

[teal dock]

Probably. I could use item skin stealers instead tbh

[abstract grove]

i mean i def want to try armor es but maybe when we get a str int class lol

[teal dock]

It’ll be harder to armor stack on monk anyway lol

Yeah I’m a templar main at heart

[abstract grove]

i'm not a giga brain tree wrapper

prob ass but rough map for demonflame blackflame covenant scaling recoup and es (idk if this is good). will need to instill/megalo ignite mag nodes

[dawn spire]

With no way to recover es aside from recharge, kinda. Though with chronomancer shenanigans it seems fine

[abstract grove]

most complex ws armour titan build ever conceived

[dawn spire]

I think the blackflame keystone is going to be nuts on a chaos dot build as just another debuff to feed dark effigy lol

[abstract grove]

in 0.1 this would've been 3 jewels, it is now 1 LOL

[dawn spire]

Oh, I also might try an impending doom mana stacking ignite infernalist...

[honest grail]

I'd doing the math on smith better now and it's still coming out on top for warrior by a significant margin

90% all max res still doable and even if you just get to 85% that's still crazy

and they still have the best pdr for low investment (Titan armour stacker can maybe beat at much higher investment)

and you get more strength and chaos res on gear much more easily still

if the fire res overcap node is left alone or at least just nerfed a bit it's even better

[quiet forge]

how's warbringer stacking up?

[honest grail]

for max fire you can still use Phoenix shield for +5% and an Against the Darkness jewel for another like 4%+ depending on where you out it

warbringer looks fine for totem angle and bad for everything else lol

[abstract grove]

the armor break node is just not worth eh

[honest grail]

turtle charm is gigabad

why passive block when you can just be much tankier building around active block anyway

[teal dock]

Yeah I was using Darkness as a buffer for armor and energy shield last time I did a mace chonk

[honest grail]

armour break node loses a lot of value given that we can put armour break support on multiple skills now

[dawn spire]

Wait, does damage to darkness interrupt es recharge?

[formal silo]

Does anyone know the site for easy annoint? you could click the distilled, it was not the database

[abstract grove]

the below 0 node might be ok for bosses now that consume armor break skills now have different effects, and you can put exploit weakness on whatever prob? maybe still shit idk

[desert edge]

guys quick question, can the self cast spell casters hit spell frequency at around 0.15 second per spell ?

[faint current]

Excuse me! If I had a skill that let's say did 20% of the boss/ unique enemy HP. But now GGG said it will do 50% more damage to unique enemies. So would that mean my skill that did 20% of the boss HP will now do 30% of its HP in simple terms?

[dawn spire]

With enough investment and the right spell, absolutely

[honest grail]

just not worth the points IMO when you can get so much more defensive bonuses from smith

[dawn spire]

That's only like 6-7 casts per second

[sharp thorn]

If you somehow can trigger it once every 0.15 seconds, yeah. Meta gems don't have cd.

[honest grail]

and you can put whatever you would have spent on a rare chest into your budget for other items

[teal dock]

No, which is why it felt good to have as a defense 😃

[honest grail]

I gotta make a post or video on this

no more smith slander

[abstract grove]

if ur attack does 1000 damage and has the 50% more on unique enemies than it does 1500 to bosses (before resistances and such)

[desert edge]

is that rare enough ? whats the general investment ?

[dawn spire]

Ah. So you basically just had no es most of the time?

[faint current]

Thank you!

[dawn spire]

Which spell do you want to cast every 0.15s? Then I can tell you what you need

[teal dock]

No, darkness let me recharge it safely

[desert edge]

yeah im talking about pure self-cast tho, we're in church of invoker discussing that because we dunno how to scale spell damage but maybe we're looking at it wrong

[desert edge]

elemental expression lmfao

[honest grail]

people are so bad at assuming that an ascendancy must be useless if it only gets nerfs, not thinking that it was like 300% better than other warrior options before and the nerfs only brought it down by like 30% at best

[teal dock]

I wish I knew how the Chonk tree is laid out next patch

[quiet forge]

so apparently there's an 8k barrier from the sorcery ward, that should be decent

[abstract grove]

smith looks insane defensively, it's just i never hear people talking about it's offensive nodes

[rain dove]

Is a siege ballista build viable? And what ascendancy would even scale it

[sharp thorn]

Oh, self cast. I misread. It's going to be hard I think. For some spells it's outright impossible if they have +1 second to total cast time like comet.

[teal dock]

I was gonna do a chaos smith. Still tempted to with the cast fire spell passive

[honest grail]

the general principle is that getting so much defensive power from your ascendancy lets you put more of your power budget elsewhere into offense

[teal dock]

But BFC is spells only

[quiet forge]

is jade worth it now?

[desert edge]

what about sparkers or arc guys ?

[honest grail]

for example, only needing fire res on your gloves lets you get +skills and aps more easily

[teal dock]

I’ll probably pivot to a Smith of Kitava if I get an Original Sin ring

[honest grail]

you should level as smith regardless

just solves your gearing until like, 1st arbiter lol

[dawn spire]

That skill can only be triggered when you critically hit with a melee attack. It has nothing to do with cast speed

[honest grail]

getting chaos res much more easily is so important

[desert edge]

i know lol
thats not the question tho
im asking a point of comparison on self cast speed cause i never play spells, not help on EE

[honest grail]

comparing what titan/warb get for 6 points vs smith is so funny

[abstract grove]

kitava looks ideal for league start then maybe transition into titan

[honest grail]

yeah if you have something you want to do with hulking form or armour stacking

[dawn spire]

I asked what spell you want to cast every 0.15s and you told me EE. So I'll ask again, what spell do you want to cast every 0.15s? Or does it not matter as long as you're casting something that often?

[honest grail]

warb is totem angle, titan is for hulk/armour shenanigans, smith is your all-round tank for everything else

[abstract grove]

i mean hulking form is kind of just disgusting

[dawn spire]

Warbringer and titan also do minion stuff pretty well

[teal dock]

Titan Necro my beloved

[honest grail]

hopefully they don't nerf stuff like Phoenix shield and AtD and 'accidentally' forget to patch note it

[desert edge]

okay that's a quiproquo then
im not trying to cast anything, im trying to know the average cast speed of a self-spell caster in end game (but not minmaxed)
because i then went to compare it to the hypothetical dps of EE assuming 0.125 sec per spell

[sharp thorn]

Arc has base cast time 1.10 so you need to have a lot of cast speed. On paper it's possible but I don't think that you can get that much by reasonable means.

[desert edge]

TIL
it means that what i might lose in spell damage scaling, i will gain it spell frequency maybe

[sharp thorn]

You probably need around +600%-700% cast speed to make it possible. So like, don't try.

[desert edge]

oof

okay allow me to rephrase the question then, whats the usual +XX% cast speed on self caster ?

just a window of numbers

or average with +/-

i dont need exactitude, just some number to rely on because i have none by myself

[teal dock]

I kinda wanna do equilibrium on my chonk

But that’s a big investment lol

[abstract grove]

its nice that with the new bleed supports you don't need to build bleed chance at all

[dawn spire]

Every spell has a different base cast speed. And every build will aim for a different amount of cast speed based on their needs. Builds that benefit from casting faster will have more, whereas things like ignite builds will have less.

[dawn spire]

Do you mean increased or more cast speed? It all depends. It's like asking what the average attack speed of a character is. It's even harder with spells because they usually have multiple spells with varying support gems and speeds

[abstract grove]

man i think im just gonna do mace warrior again, or try the xbow/mace ws idea. i wanna try to see if there's some wack ass combos with fissures, jagged ground, etc. not touching stampede

[dawn spire]

Bonestorm for instance has a 0.12s base cast time. Spark has 0.7s

[teal dock]

I still might go blackflame covenant anyway if I do go equilibrium

My mind is still bouncing around ideas so much lmao

[proven spindle]

So given the changes to what snap does what actually drops fire infusions?

[desert edge]

mmmh i see

[dawn spire]

Same. I need tree and gem info

[proven spindle]

And to what living bomb does

[desert edge]

is Bonestorm the fastest to cast ? i could probably compare the damage output itself instead

[dawn spire]

https://poe2db.tw/us/Living_Bomb that's what it does currently (with a volatile wand)

[teal dock]

Because I could do a Blackflame Covenant cast spell on hit Smith of Kitava with equilibrium

[dawn spire]

I think so

But it's hard to measure on its own since a portion of its damage comes from impale

[desert edge]

right

mmmh

maybe i should take the spells that look like EE, see what it costs in skill points to reach 0.15

[teal dock]

By Equilibrium I mean this lol

Chonk still sounds like a better idea than smith atm for a chaos melee build but man, blackfire is so cool 😅

[dawn spire]

Siphon Elements, The Heart of the Storm Notable, scouring winds notable on stormweaver, elemental equilibrium, and whatever new notables they add

[dawn spire]

EE has a cooldown of 0.25s so where is 0.15s even coming from?

[desert edge]

cdr

quality + ingenuity

[dawn spire]

Gotcha

[desert edge]

its a huge stress on builds tho so its late end minmax range

but essentially the questions are about spell scaling, if we're not scaling the damage itself since wewerent doing it on attack invoker in 0.1, then we could keep the same formular of high hit frequency and high crit damage

but the hit frequency needs to be measuring relative to other spell builds and not attack builds

and crit damage is a big question mark because we have no idea of the base crit of EE

if shit shit has 0 base crit chance, we're fucked lmfao

oh nvm its know

7, 12, 9

okay

[summer pasture]

Pretty sure black flame is for spells only not melee skills

[teal dock]

Yeah it does

I was throwing around a blackfire spell on hit idea with equilibrium, while using some regular conversion supports on physical melee skills for the Smith of Kitava

(Or get lucky and get an original sin)

[summer pasture]

Forge Hammer might work with forge smith

If you're already pumping fire damage that is

[teal dock]

My Chonk idea is using the blackflame ring for chaos ignite and just working with avatar of fire and ignite supports for volatile

[dawn spire]

I don't think it's hit frequency you care about, it should be dps. The base damage per hit of elemental expression seems terribly low compared to most spells.

But you can raise your damage by speccing into damage, proc rate, crit damage, etc. I'm not sure why you're so fixated on finding a spell to equate it to

[abstract grove]

do you think remnants will be annoying to have to pick up?

[dawn spire]

Depends on how close you are to the mobs

[woven otter]

if i use armour explosion on a chayula, will the extra chaos damage apply to the explosion?

[dawn spire]

It should

[woven otter]

hmm

[desert edge]

Are you saying it post buff ? It went from 125-187 to 200-300 on the cold proc, which is more than current frostbolt or frost nova (spammable cold spells)

[willow elm]

DM brought up a good point, arc's max dmg on the arc right now is 462 and the pulse was 277, but the patch states that the pulse goes away and arc's new damage is 380 or so. So is it a nerf or a buff?

[uncut bay]

I am 90% sure it's a buff ofc

due to lightning infusions

[willow elm]

yah, but now I am wondering if spark is better for clear until you get lightning infusions...but maybe cast on ailments/crit snap generating lighting infusions will be good enough

[dawn spire]

Oh, no, I didn't see that lol

[dawn spire]

Ice nova can also be cast on multiple frostbolts and frostbolt itself isn't really known for its high dps.

[desert edge]

also im trying to have a point of comparison because there are folks on youtube andwhat so that say EE is bad but they have a trash tree, so im trying to do my tree and see if the output is comparable to proper self cast builds, if that make sense, cause im not comparing myself to trash ee builds lol

[desert edge]

i see

i will probably have to be creative

have EE being both damage and condition of another spell

[dawn spire]

Attack*

[desert edge]

no no spell

i thought of using Discharge but thats going to be expensive early on

Im looking at Snap and thinking

[dawn spire]

EE is conditional in that it triggers when you crit with a melee attack

[desert edge]

its conditioned by an attack, but i want it to condition another spell

[dawn spire]

Huh?

[desert edge]

Like putting Discharge on EE

or EE criting hard enough to apply ailment which make Snap hit hard

I dunno yet

[dawn spire]

Oooooh, I get it now

You want to use EE to trigger other spells

[desert edge]

i wouldnt say trigger by itself, just make it combo with other spells

the combo include trigger

just less restrictive

[dawn spire]

I think having something like cast on crit or cast on ailment is a good start. Then pick a melee skill that is really good at critting really fast (and inflicting ailments). Then discharge support on EE for bonkers combos. Could also make EE the one that's good at inflicting the ailments and discharge with your CoC spells

Stacking one attribute is a plus because discharge support and EE both synergize with attributes

[desert edge]

the issue is that Discharge ask for Int and EE best proc is Dext

[dawn spire]

Oh, damn, that's a weird difference

Oh, discharge is all int. I didn't realize

I thought it was each attribute

[desert edge]

i think discharge is for a later build with more investment

its far more sensible

[desert edge]

i like it better like that tbh

[dawn spire]

Yeah makes more sense for casters

[desert edge]

you can just stack int and make so you can ailment all then its all done

[dawn spire]

You're giving me an idea

Mana/int stacking infernalist with mana flare and discharge

But I digress

[desert edge]

discharge issue is the cooldown lol

ingenuity can be on multiple spells so there's that anyways

but 1 cd and 1 cast time

sigh

also idk if it goes well with snap

since they both consume

[coral idol]

anyone knows how armour explosion base dmg works? searching web+discord history has people saying its based off weapon damage, not the triggering hit.
testing it with average xbow, armour piercing rounds + supports buffing the fire aoe explosion, not the projectiles, and the damage is non-existent..like 5% off white weenie mobs in white maps.
the basic unsupported armour piercing rounds is doing all the work.

doesn't seem right

any chance its somehow based off the triggering hit? so the AP rounds plinking = small armour explodes? and u need a big slow hit to get it working?

[formal silo]

does this work with essence drain?

[next moat]

Yep, essence drain is a projectile spell skill.

[formal silo]

yeah just double checking before I get excited ty

half my day is spent on a rollercoaster these days

[frosty finch]

I did not realize that double barrel 3 will be a better auto reload

I cant find a list of the new unique items that are coming

[atomic halo]

there isn't

you can't even datamine new uniques

https://poe2db.tw/us/Rise_of_the_Abyssal_uniques

teased ones we've seen so far compiled here

[shadow imp]

isnt there a version that has no cd?

[magic pier]

We won't have that info until a couple hours after the preload becomes available

[frosty finch]

Oh damn when is the preload ?

[dawn spire]

In poe1, yeah

[summer pasture]

Marhoi eqi my favorite item is making an appearance? Well warrior its for start

[fathom notch]

You don’t even know it’s rarity yet. It could be T0/1

[teal dock]

How hard to get is Original Sin?

[noble token]

minion infernalist build in 0.3

[summer pasture]

And? Doesn't mean I won't get one this league, I planned to start thorns titan or stun titan anyways

[fathom notch]

I assume the average PoE 2 player barely makes it to high tier maps let alone is able to farm expensive items(if it’s expensive ofc). So starting a character based on an item they will never get seems like a terrible idea.

[summer pasture]

Marhoi eqi confirmed my start it was highly likely I was going warrior thorns anyways and what makes you assume that I'm an average player?

[austere reef]

anyone seen anything about how this node will change with the changes to elemental exposure?

[static torrent]

It's in the patch notes

[austere reef]

TY i missed that one

[acoustic gale]

do other classes do anything with infusions i thought it was just mage? if not then its in a really crappy spot on the tree

[uncut bay]

only stormweaver has infusion passives in the ascendancy

[crude haven]

does anybody know, if it is intended, that life recharge is interrupted by paying life for skills (eternal youth + blood mage)?

[fathom notch]

I mean, It’s either I assume you’re dogshit or amazing. So settle in the middle. Seems fair to me.

But yeah, enjoy. Build should be fun.

[summer pasture]

Fair enough it's dog shit btw in all seriousness it will take sometime for me to aquire one cause a free heavy stun is pretty good so I'm assuming t0-2 rarity

[full urchin]

Im interested in going blood mage this set now that it actually looks playable, although idk what skills to actually build around?

[static plinth]

It is intended

Does a totem hitting an enemy proc Adaptable Assault?

[summer pasture]

I like your profile pic, goes with the name

[static plinth]

If yes, does having Adaptable Assault on a weapon set with totems and not on my other weapon set cause the totems to get the buff even though i dont have Adaptable Assault allocated?

[summer pasture]

Does it say when you hit an enemy if so then no

Totems are allies and not you

[static plinth]

Its "If youve dealt a projectile/melee attack hit in the past 8 seconds"

[static plinth]

But they use your skills and inherit your passive tree

[summer pasture]

Yes but they are not you they are allies so no

[static plinth]

I wouldnt be surprised if i dont get buffs when they do.things but id presume if i melee hit theyd get the projectile buff

[summer pasture]

Also where does it say they get your passive tree?

[static plinth]

They use your skills which means they inherently have the offensive bonuses from your tree

They dont literally have your tree

[summer pasture]

They get your stats and buffs but not your tree

They inherit any damage, attack speed buffs and the like but not stuff that requires you to hit to proc, now if you've dealt an attack hit in the last 8 seconds they should have adaptable assault buff when you cast them but they will be unable to proc it themselves

[brazen patio]

So I was theorizing a essence drain contagion living bomb build thing I really have not worked out the skill gems yet besides I really want to work in the black flame covenant keystone in 03.0 and make a purple fire build that using chaotic freeze aswell. is this tree giga grab or would it work. https://poeplanner.com/b/X1g

[teal dock]

I’ll probably use Shockwave Totem to apply wither lol

[static plinth]

Do all totems use your own weapon now or only the melee ones

[desert edge]

im wondering

can we pop totem with a fat mace and swap back to another weapon set

without losing the totem

[static torrent]

If I'm not mistaken, the skill effectively snapshots your current weapon set, so if you were to cast a Firebolt and swap, it would still do the same damage. I believe the only exceptions would be stuff like Spirit buffs, but I'm not certain.

[acoustic gale]

it worked like that for skill levels in 0.1 at least and i cant imagine them deciding to change that cause it would be weird for your totems to drop in power every time you swapped

[slim spoke]

Has PoB updated for 0.3 yet?

[static plinth]

Hella

[desert edge]

not gonna update before patch

[desert edge]

word, thank you

[slim spoke]

Dang, no worries im thinking about an explosive concoction build using the painters servants gloves and herald stacking. Hopefully it goes well

[pseudo bone]

Considering Acrobatics for future Deflection shenanigans. Its a Less modifier which should apply after Gain modifiers. Gain base Evasion rating as Deflect rating, then lose a lot of Evasion rating.

[pulsar scarab]

Does temporal chains interact with dots like burn or chaos damage over time?

for example I think in poe1 I think dots ticked slower if you were effected by temp chains

[atomic halo]

they expire slower

so effectively last longer

doesnt change the dps though

[soft garnet]

hi anyone have blood mage leveling for starter?

[cyan plinth]

I have an old PC and im trying to find a league starrt build thats cheap, good clear, and wont tank my FPS. Any recommendations?
Deadeye LA?

[acoustic gale]

probably wouldnt be on the cheap side cause thats what like half the playerbase is running

though i suppose that does mean theres abundant mediocre gear for it though

[bold oxide]

essence drain + contagion

[pulsar scarab]

thank you! Was going to go with chronomancer with the buffed temp chains so that enemies are slowed by ~80% so wanted to make sure to avoid any traps while planning.

[soft garnet]

may i have link please

[gaunt ether]

maybe a dumb question, but is guard the same as fortify