2┃after-acts-help

[hot knoll]

im used to crafting with even less currency on POE1 ruthless so this is easy for me

[jaunty crystal]

if friends have not explained me about trading then i wouldnt even know about it xd

[hot knoll]

on SSF the real currency is chaos orbs, i only used like 20 all league, everything else i keep for final slam

[jaunty crystal]

what is "ssf"?

[hot knoll]

solo self found no trade

[jaunty crystal]

any benefits of playing this or just personal challenge?

[hot knoll]

for data

challenge, trade is too easy for me. i prefer HC trade because of the limited economy

divines are whatever, i save it to min max my best gear later or reroll implicits

orb of annul is better , because its the only way combined with chaos orbs in POE2 to hit an affix i want at the very end of my gamble curve

i also do not hide any items in POE2 with the loot filter so i set it to soft. it hides items that are useful to me

and it gives a VERY wrong impression of what quant is actually doing for you in POE2

alchemy orbs are the same value as transmute/augment/regal/1 exalt

so dont worry too much about alchemy drops

i can go on about crafting strats in this game but it will go above the average player

[dapper tapir]

no go on, I'd like to have an easy time in trade too currently just doing recomb crafts and some annul/exalt slams but it seems investing in items that will go boom is the way I guess ?

[hot knoll]

what are you trying to hit ?

[dapper tapir]

am mostly trying to scout items that are looked for I guess ? And recomb weak stat with strong stat + good fracture and then spam exalt and pray. To sell for a few divs for profit, smthing like that

but I saw people invest in certain items instead at league start and just make profit of that I guess

[hot knoll]

well firstly, you need 4 fractures to have a half deterministic chance to hit the fracture you want

[dapper tapir]

well yes but I can also just buy it for cheap

[hot knoll]

because 4 affix = 25% each time, on your 4th time you should hit if you havent before this

if its easier to buy on trade then do so i guess... but my strats are pure game systems only

[dapper tapir]

hmmm well im curious anyway if you even wanna tell your strats and arent lazy to type em

[hot knoll]

once i hit the fracture, then i would orb of annul the 4th affix

then chaos orb to hard target the 2nd best affix i want

if it results in a 3rd best affix on lucky chaos orb slams, better win

otherwise greater essence can do the 3rd

[dapper tapir]

yess something like that with good fracture

[hot knoll]

like if i hit phys % and phys flat, then greater essence will guarantee even a t1 attack speed, its better than exalting

[dapper tapir]

but with wand for example, I usually do something like... get decent fracture suffix, +5 whatever the element is, and then combine with another suffix in recomb like cast speed

So with that all suffix are blocked and you get a good chance getting your element dmg / spell dmg

when you exalt

[hot knoll]

you can guarantee cast speed iirc on wands with greater haste

so you recomb your perfect prefix/ suffix, then guarantee the cast speed with greater haste

t1 cast speed is better than a failed exalt

its pure percentages

if you want to reach a perfect rare in week 3 of the league i guess this is the wrong game

[dapper tapir]

well lately I figured out I can farm good bases in expeditions for early league

ig for next league

[hot knoll]

yes its ok to learn and be better next league , in POE1 your still a noob after 1000 hours

[dapper tapir]

[hot knoll]

ppl here are giving up early hahaha

[dapper tapir]

idk my goal is be one of the people that somehow reach 100 div easily

if its with marketing, crafting or both

but it doesnt seem any close

[wraith quiver]

guys tablets with modifier with chance add modifier rare monsters are removed?

[hot knoll]

depends you can either RMT/TFT dodgy trade your way through or earn it ethically

just dont think too much about being economically competitive on sc trade

[dapper tapir]

I can proudly drop my morals for trade as long I know a method to get rich

[dapper tapir]

naaah I dont care about that, I just want my 100 div goal

[hot knoll]

yeh thats not my goal , i dont need it anyway

[dapper tapir]

well you more hardcore anyway

but thats why I ask in hope for some tricks

[hot knoll]

yeh but GGG will only make this game easier from here...... but not that easy

this is not d4 or bench POE1 with loot dropping by some knowledge alone

[dapper tapir]

but so you would just recommend understanding the good craft and up your chances to get the currency I aim for?

[hot knoll]

yes, if you trade currency then you can only craft more and more

[dapper tapir]

well true... thats why I want to get ahead of people

Since they switched to last epoch or whatever

[hot knoll]

when you are dealing with limited currency theres serious room for failure / risk

[dapper tapir]

more room for learning

[pulsar mural]

u wana know the truth? 100 div is nothing. 3 months league, just by playing normally u'll reach it in the 2nd month by not trying

[hot knoll]

you do not need currency in POE2 either, because a blue item or yellow item dropped on the ground is equal to 1 transmute/aug / alchemy orb

[dapper tapir]

well I dont want to farm all day

[pulsar mural]

ull be doing it for xp~

[hot knoll]

the currency is used to further push the %s forward

[dapper tapir]

Hmmm... I mostly saw the currency to invest further to get more profit

[hot knoll]

theres a reason im not using gold atm for the memes, to see how much i can just depend on ground drops/ identify / aug / exalt

[dapper tapir]

problem mostly is figuring out what to invest into

[dapper tapir]

Isnt picking up all that hella work ?

[hot knoll]

i pick up white items

its what ive done since the days of diablo 2 20 years ago

and yes theres value in it, including an ilvl 82 white base

[dapper tapir]

all ??

[hot knoll]

white items relevant to me

[dapper tapir]

oh right you in ruth too

[hot knoll]

and yes, i use armour/eva/ES on my build, i dont copy the meta

[dapper tapir]

armour/eva/es... I can imagine the pain managing all stats for it

[hot knoll]

sc trade players tell me here that armour is shit btw

i tell them they are wrong and they think im trolling them

i dont even use eternal youth

i use damage on full life for extra DPS

my full eva is 80% with tailwind

eternal youth is not good for me because ghost shroud refills my ES, just dont get hit that often

in POE1 theres 100 more ways for mobs to one shot you, its not the same in POE2

[pulsar mural]

from what sourcce btw?

[hot knoll]

passive tree LOL

[pulsar mural]

ah nvm im running low life helm

wouldnt work for me

[hot knoll]

i also use life leech anyway, so i dont have to press the life potion each time i get hit

i negate small hits via life leech like the slayer in POE1

[hot knoll]

i have that helm too, its a good helm when i do my next build (warrior)

i have 140ish / 300ish uniques on 0 MF , rarity on map mods is the best prefix but you are not disadvantaged doing other prefixes

[narrow marsh]

any way to make deli map more visually clear? i cant see on ground effect

[hot knoll]

the real quant/MF is via your clear speed not just the prefix

i only stress this alot because i see alot of negativity about loot in the POE2 community, just play the game and it will drop

its boring if you can deterministically drop a headhunter every league, its just the same result league after league like going for a morning jog

[hot knoll]

well thats a POE2 problem because even the ground pops are buried between textures/walls

you simply dont want to stand at the same spot , you always move

and its ok to wait 1 second for any ground pop to resolve before you move to it

strongboxes in POE2 have alot of misinformation anyway, the packs and any affix you add on the strongbox do not drop loot immediately, the loot itself is multiplied after the strongbox mobs are killed + affix

it works exactly the same as POE1 ruthless

[dapper tapir]

people do overkills with their stats often anyway most of the time what they have is already enough to finish most of the game but they crave for more

[hot knoll]

yah but currently the challenge is just not enough to warrant having BIS items

ill wait until the real act 4 - 6 is out and better mobs / harder bosses

[dapper tapir]

but eitherway your playstyle is cool 🫡

[hot knoll]

on 0.2 its kinda not fair for the average player to think they can reach to the top that easily, POE is not about that

GGG will have to balance early game curve better which i think act 1 - 3 on HC is wayyyy harder than the current end game

and then 4 - 6 can slay us all

arbiter is kinda tough from what i can see, but its the only real pinnacle boss atm, it can be nerfed once pinnacle no.2 comes in

[dapper tapir]

Well there will be balancing for sure.. I even saw that the ascendancy Trial bosses had double the intended health

accidently

[hot knoll]

trials are easy if you know what to do even on HC

just make sure you dont die on 0 life with 75% honour resistance on HC

[dapper tapir]

well you get used to them quiet quick but the fact that they had double hp is funny

[hot knoll]

yeah but you have the chance to double your dps on a shrine buff on trials

not counting relics, i agree it should be double HP

[dapper tapir]

OH so your char actually dies

[hot knoll]

yes if you have full honour resistance on HC you can die

if you have no honour resistance on HC you will only lose honour and not die

it teaches you how to not get hit, you sink or swim

you also get 100% evasion if you dodge properly on bosses, dodge is seriously OP in this game

i would prefer a stamina bar or a cap to dodge

it wont happen cause community will only mald

[dapper tapir]

yeah I agree, when starting out with poe and doing your own build with not much knowledge... got not that much options but to learn dodging stuff

[hot knoll]

i do my own builds and experiment my way, if i only reach t5 maps or even campaign its an achievement and i can do better next time

it shouldnt be a free ride otherwise players can /quit when they had their perfect run

theres nothing else to play for

and my build is fragmentation rounds which is sub 0% representation on poe2 ninja

phys crossbow for the win

[dapper tapir]

Yeah i can see what you mean, meanwhile I like to rush my progress

[slate field]

can we already use the same weapons in both sets or is it planned for next patch ?

[hot knoll]

you might be real lucky for divines on trade because i believe unique tiers are HEAVILY buffed towards the player compared to poe1

GGG accounted for the less quant/free MF in POE2 is my wager

but of course its not as free as the normal POE1

[dapper tapir]

yeah I will try investing in some trendy uniques while they cheap next league

and crafting items, depends what else we get

[hot knoll]

average POE2 players do not see this so GGG needs to be real conservative how they manage this

you already can hit big affixes in 700 transmutes vs 10000 in POE1, i dont know what the complaint is all about personally

they just eat whatever poe1 streamer who quit before they even put any effort into it

[dapper tapir]

yeah I played poe1 a bit, I remember that a little

[hot knoll]

GGG knows their game better than the current player opinions atm

the average trade player can only think of divines/exalts to buy their gear but the underlying system is so buffed towards the player this time around they cant even see it

[dapper tapir]

well the player base is confused anyway... but its understandable cause I am too a bit

am not really sure what poe2 is meant to be yet looking at it

but also.. its early access so

[hot knoll]

it can change, but the original POE1 is so unapologetic back then

[dapper tapir]

I remember people saying how harsh poe1 was too on start

[hot knoll]

GGG had everything in their power to make the game for the masses like d4 , they chose not to give in to mainstream AAA $$$

[novel dagger]

well I'm not exactly good player, just average slow ass player, but at least I know how to self sufficient quite far into the game
don't remmeber much about poe1 back in 2013 although i do played since then
but for sure we had none of the crafting system today

[hot knoll]

its not perfect right obvs, but man back then its even worse

mark roberts was a top player and he got recruited to GGG

[dapper tapir]

well... THE GREED FOR MOAR

[hot knoll]

the game is balanced for top 10%

[dapper tapir]

[hot knoll]

the rest you either learn or just have fun

[dapper tapir]

im just glad I can somewhat craft items and find bases to craft on them to make my gear

and somewhat understand the concept of defense and offensive laers

but there is always more

[hot knoll]

in POE1 your death condition is much more difficult , ailments will literally kill you

and POE1 by act 4 you need near max res for certain bosses, in POE2 its balance to 0%

[dapper tapir]

lmao tru

[hot knoll]

the devs in POE2 on the last interview even confirmed this

[dapper tapir]

you can quiet literally invest purely in damage

[hot knoll]

how much easier do you want the game to be

[dapper tapir]

the campaign is great tho, I dont think anyone complaining about it in poe2

[hot knoll]

if you dont have 75% fire res for the first act 4 boss, well good luck

campaign is much better than the end game with harder bosses

[dapper tapir]

Thats what I feel like is missing

[hot knoll]

we havent seen real act 4 - 6 so it should crank up that difficulty imo

[dapper tapir]

the campaign feels like super fun boss fights the first time I played through poe2 campaign

[hot knoll]

yet ppl are complaining so here we are

chris wilson was absolutely unapologetic about POE1's difficulty

[dapper tapir]

yeaah but I think its mostly the endgame they complain no ?

which I can understand but, my goal is understanding market currently anyway so I dont care that much about it

[hot knoll]

early POE1 is worse than POE1 ruthless right now in drops

no need to bring POE2 into this even

POE2 is simply an easier game in general by design / systems. you wont die from not having corrupted blood immunity on your life potion

[runic marlin]

guys, i just completed a sekhemas that said that would give points but there r no points to atribute 😐

[dapper tapir]

[hot knoll]

which doesnt even exist in POE2

[dapper tapir]

doesnt ruthless give you less drops

[hot knoll]

yes but early POE1 was worse lol

[maiden shale]

Unrelated, but what kinda price would I be able to sell this jewel for, just picked it up

[runic marlin]

can anyone help?

[hot knoll]

?

looks good to me

[runic marlin]

i used one of these and i cant pick more points

[hot knoll]

you need to complete all 3 trials

[runic marlin]

oh

[hot knoll]

and activate the thingo at the end

[runic marlin]

more to go i guess

ty

[hot knoll]

you either use a price checker or manually scan similar items on trade , otherwise you list for 1 - 2 exalts

that jewel is good anyway shd be worth more than just 1 - 2 exalts

unless its oversupplied

[maiden shale]

the cheapest one I saw that was similar is 16d and the most expensive was 25d that were comparable, but that is a huge price range to be checking between

pretty much BIS jewel for Lightning Spear amazon as far as I can see

[pale harbor]

Im just not getting the currency to continue making maxed waystones. Regal,2 Ex, Vaal orbs per map just isn’t dropping.

[mossy wraith]

nice ritual placement, no way in 😄

[hot knoll]

theres no straight answer but how much you are willing to wait

you wanna sell faster you underprice, you wanna sell slower you increase

[maiden shale]

I suppose I'm happy to wait, if it's worth as much as it seems to be, then I guess I'll start high and drop it by a div every few hours or so

[hot knoll]

yep list high then

[maiden shale]

alr tyty

[runic marlin]

i did the 3rd trial now, and still no points at the end

[vague temple]

did you click on the ascension altar

[hot knoll]

yeh click the thingo that grants you points

[runic marlin]

i did

it didnt give any points

but fuck it, the game crashed anyways, fun time.

[vague temple]

[hot knoll]

F

at least you may have picked up some sweet relics for the next run

time lost jewels can be powerful anyway

[runic marlin]

whats the point if im geting to the end and it doesnt let me pick any points?!

...

[vague temple]

it should

[hot knoll]

i cant confirm what you did or havent done without a screenshot btw

[vague temple]

how many points have you spent so far

[runic marlin]

would love to, if the game hadnt crashed and ported me to the start

[runic marlin]

the first 2 trials

[vague temple]

so 4 points?

[runic marlin]

yes

[hot knoll]

well F then maybe you got hit by rollbacks

[runic marlin]

wait

[hot knoll]

but i think we cant confirm anything without more info to call it a bug

[runic marlin]

i opened passives and i have 2 points to spend

x'D

not complicated at all

[hot knoll]

there you go

[runic marlin]

ty guys anyways

[hot knoll]

save our hate for GGG for when it matters

[runic marlin]

im guessing clicking the thingy only gives the points and i need to go passies to pick them

weird design choices

[hot knoll]

it wont happen again for you thats for sure

[runic marlin]

they are so much better then everything else in the genre in so many things, but then fail on such simple stuff

[hot knoll]

ohh its worse in POE1, google wiki and reddit is how you learn

[runic marlin]

i have high hopes tho since its still in development

some d4 qol would shine here

[pseudo barn]

It says that you got the points on your screen when clicking the statue

That's not on them tbh

[runic marlin]

i probably missed it, but, its confusing since it opens the points UI then

[hot knoll]

hey i only learnt i can have 3 slots on towers 2 days ago as a level 96 ssf

[runic marlin]

cause if it didnt open it you would go to passives screen and see them forcibly

[jaunty crystal]

console?

[hot knoll]

imagine reading and having a better strat (i can be even faster??)

pc

my fault obvs but i can only laugh at myself

[jaunty crystal]

happens to the best

[hot knoll]

happens to all of us tbh

reading hard

the map boss skill points is poorly explained here anyway, you need to google hard but not as hard as POE1

[jaunty crystal]

i d say that everything in-game is poorly explained

[hot knoll]

at least we get that tooltip info in POE2, its only annoyance is when you are playing and accidentally hitting the help button

POE1/2 its just straight google wiki (skip fextralife)

[zenith sigil]

poe2wiki.net

[hot knoll]

not fully informative yet but once we dig harder it will only be better

[zenith sigil]

also poe2db.tw for datamined info

[hot knoll]

yah thats how i calculate boss damage etc

i dont know the multiplier on say map boss tier for example but you can still adjust by being careful and not just bullrushing

its not that much harder

they need to get rid of this force combo thing, the best parry in POE2 imo is instant life potion

you simply do not wnt to hold block shield instead without sacrificing damage against that mob

[novel crow]

Coordinating attacks is impossible in simulacrum, I had to dodge or tank so often I had no time to do anything but basic shooting

[hot knoll]

waiting for the nerfs anyway its ok staying at tier0

[novel crow]

The bosses were fine on their own even in round 15, it was the endless swarmd

[hot knoll]

i just need one suffering distill to make my final enchant for my end game amu

[novel crow]

I finished t0 with 2 lives to spare, 1 will be impossible

[hot knoll]

of course poe1 bench players think its bad because they expect more but its balanced for me at least

simu is the hardest end game league mechanic right now

and GGG is planning to nerf it next update

[novel crow]

Last season too

Good

It's stupid hard, t0 harder than t4 bosses

[hot knoll]

yah my only death since level 82 came from my first simu

didnt even lose exp

[novel crow]

Nod

[hot knoll]

cant even gain exp which is even worse

[vague temple]

simu nerfs a lot of builds

[hot knoll]

it benefits certain builds of course but remember in POE1 its not balanced for all builds either

[novel crow]

Even the alleged op LS build can't cope, combos are impossible to get enough frenzies to do real damage

[hot knoll]

you either make a build that can do all content easily or you make do

[novel crow]

Define a build that can do everything easily this season

[hot knoll]

my definition of easy is different than yours, im using a sub 0% representation build on poe ninja

POE2 should not repeat bench POE1 where you can simply one shot arbiter

my grand hopes for POE2 is the perfect balance of knowledge + mechanical skill

POE1 is all knowledge first

imo for GGG to make POE2 as POE 1.5 defeats all purposes making both games concurrent to each other

0.1 became bench POE1 , and ppl just want an easy game

POE as a series never began like this

[livid escarp]

Hey im new and i was wondering if there is a way to grind for different unique? or do you just farm maps all day until they drop?

[hot knoll]

yes thats it, unless you know how to chance orbs correctly

theres prediction calculations right now on chance orbs but i believe the calculation is even more boosted in POE2

[livid escarp]

do different maps have a higher chance?

[hot knoll]

no

for me to explain this to you is pretty complicated to explain the tier system of uniques

[vague temple]

target farming is not a thing, besides pinnacle boss drops

and i guess breach rings lol

[hot knoll]

you can target farm in this game

[livid escarp]

oh do different unique have a rarer chance to drop?

[hot knoll]

its just not deterministic

[hot knoll]

yes

[livid escarp]

dam

[hot knoll]

try me, what unique do you want

[livid escarp]

theres 2 i want eventually let me find there names rq

[hot knoll]

yah lets see it

[vague temple]

inb4 temporalis

[livid escarp]

first one is Choir of the Storm Jade Amulet which is a lot cheaper then the other one

the other one is Atziri's Acuity Moulded Mitts

[novel crow]

okay, sadly I'm very unskilled even after 10,000 hours of poe*

[livid escarp]

im still in acts rn tho. im only lv35 so i got a while

[hot knoll]

btw the chance % is only a prediction right now, i believe the chance is even more boosted this time around

POE2's loot system is much more buffed towards the player atm from my calculations

[livid escarp]

this might sound bad but what are chance orbs?

[hot knoll]

chance orbs is basically POE1's tainted mythic orb

you basically chance the white base to hit the tier system itself

[vague temple]

choir of the storm is dropped by xesht

so you cant chance it

[hot knoll]

yah thats why its not included in this

its targettable obvs

if you hit defiance of destiny you win

[livid escarp]

choir of the storm is like lv 80 anyways so i cant use that one for a while

[hot knoll]

the tier system of POE is hidden by GGG and could be changed league after league

so we make a prediction to what GGG's rules are

[livid escarp]

what about the gloves? Atziri's Acuity Moulded Mitts. I saw that the cheapest one is like 20 divines

[hot knoll]

look up this website bro

https://poeladder.com/chance?isPoe2=false&ladderIdentifier=ssf_poe2_early_access

[livid escarp]

ok

[hot knoll]

its tier 0 for a reason because its a fucking good unique to hit

[livid escarp]

do u use the chance orb on any gloves?

[hot knoll]

you have limited chance orbs obvs, you make that calculated risk yourself

[vague temple]

0.05% chance to get it with chance orb lol

good luck buddy

[hot knoll]

if its what you really want in the league, you hard target

[hot knoll]

its much better odds than chance orbs in POE1

you need to farm tainted mythical orbs in POE1 to do the same

[vague temple]

chance orbs are more expensive in poe2

[narrow marsh]

does fracturing orb exclusively dropped by immured fury, or any monsters in cleansed map?

[hot knoll]

because its much more powerful

[livid escarp]

ok thx for all the help

[hot knoll]

the best stuff isnt for free

[vague temple]

and theres less being generated by players

because no loot

[hot knoll]

disagree

[vague temple]

less loot*

[hot knoll]

you do not need that to have success right now

in a game like diablo 2 which is the backbone of POE's design, you can farm 10 leagues and not hit certain items

its also not that important if you dont get it , you have other items/ good rares to make up for your build

less loot in POE2 makes sense because you need much less loot to hit the same affixes compared to POE1

the backend system is so buffed towards the player in this game

[vague temple]

https://tenor.com/view/what-huh-wat-wut-gif-16165693567743102551

[hot knoll]

yup, i know how to calculate drops in POE2

top ruthless players use this calculations

thats why you pick up even blue items relevant to you in POE2

if not white

if you see my screenshots above you can see how little currency i use at level 96 ssf

[novel crow]

they really did nerf breach ring drop rate, no rings in T2 xesht

but I picked up a choir you were just talking about

[hot knoll]

well its "balanced" for me , because if you really want a good breach ring you can invest everything into it

[night zinc]

Yeah, I've only had 2 breach rings drop so far

[hot knoll]

the breach ring by itself you can craft it all you want

annul all the affixes if you want

on trade theres no excuses to obtain even more currency than an ssf player

[vague temple]

"craft"

[novel crow]

sure, but they dropped 3+ all the time last season, not getting even one is a bit rough

[hot knoll]

yah but 0.1 was a joke for me personally, it was too free and easy

[novel crow]

you clearly prefer much harder gaming, sorry I don't

[jaunty crystal]

"too free"

[hot knoll]

thats ok, trade is there to have a much bigger advantage

[jaunty crystal]

yet even there people complained about drop rates

xd

[vague temple]

you must enjoy suffering

[hot knoll]

im not suffering right now

[vague temple]

loot game drops loot - "this is too easy! give me less loot!"

[hot knoll]

its not about less loot tbh

its about the dopamine of a single good drop

any old diablo 2 player can attest to this mentality

[keen pilot]

i dont mind slower pace of gameplay and lower loot drops, but i like feeling of progression and slowly getting stronger like in poe1

here i dont have that

[hot knoll]

i play ruthless POE1 anyway i like starting real weak and earning my power

[river violet]

I swear, as soon as people realize that exalted orbs can make really strong gear (sometimes), the ex:div ratio is gonna plummet

But trade league players just cling to them and never use them because they're also money

[hot knoll]

im 40 and i started from diablo, im used to low drops

lets not talk about d4 if you want lots of loot

[vague temple]

yeah no

95% of the time i get the worst mods when i slam

[hot knoll]

have you compared POE1 exalting vs POE2 ?

[keen pilot]

why should it when divines are almost nonexistant

[hot knoll]

you can see how much worse POE1 exalting is

[river violet]

Which means that for a div, you can get 5 perfect slams

At least

[keen pilot]

its more like <1% and you brick item if you wont hit few in a row

[hot knoll]

i play hcssf myself not this league , but yes theres so much more to lose

[keen pilot]

i still slam but i dont think its a factor to increase price lol

ex sink is maps

[hot knoll]

sc trade players are on a completely different ballgame

[river violet]

If you recombinate, fracture, omen, and use other currency you can get a lot more mileage out of those exalts

[hot knoll]

hey.... orb of annul is OP on poe2 😛

[jaunty crystal]

i just feel like for newbies its very hard to get into playing the game, this league i made most of my currency purely from trades, first league i had nothing until i learned crafting basics and trading basics

[river violet]

Indeed

[hot knoll]

dude in POE1 after 1000 hours your still a noob, this is season 2 POE2

[keen pilot]

poe1 has problem with both content bloat and enigmatic mechanics

i love this game but i have tons of hours sinked in

[novel crow]

if there was a truly softccore league I'd play it, and I'm sure lots of casuals would too

[keen pilot]

and i still dont understand some of stuff at all

[hot knoll]

theres POE1 bench if you want the easiest POE atm

GGG is trying to fix the current POE1 meta with POE2

theres no reason for both games to be the same concurrently for GGG

[keen pilot]

i hope they wont bend that way because i like having both experiences, but if they're not having both be same, then they need to make updates for poe1

[hot knoll]

POE2 isnt even balanced on 75% ele res

in POE1 by HC act 4 you want 75% fire res for the first boss

[jaunty crystal]

but at same time if they want to abandon poe1 then its sad for poe1 fans to get used to poe2

[hot knoll]

in POE2 you dont even need that, mechanical skill is enough

[hot knoll]

POE2 is already easier and more ppl are playing than POE1

[river violet]

That's kinda the idea. Poe is largely about starting off weak and clueless and becoming something greater.

It does this not only though the literal gameplay/narrative, but also on a metatextual level with the player going through a similar process. Learning the game's mechanics, crafting, etc. is a mirror of the character's power progression. It's a masterpiece of ludonarrative harmony ngl

[hot knoll]

its not about $$$ and player count for GGG if they stick to their vision

[hot knoll]

thank you, i love you

[keen pilot]

i think poe2 doesnt work like that right now

[novel crow]

bench?

[keen pilot]

but maybe im just salty

[hot knoll]

in ruthless POE1 we call normal POE1 bench league

because the bench craft is a crutch

[river violet]

I mean... It kinda does, but the ceilings for both axes are much lower than in poe1

[keen pilot]

well, maybe true

it feels my power is fully dependant on luck gambling

in endgame at least

[hot knoll]

its just much easier in POE2 , this is my first real league and im top 50 sc ssf

i only played HCSSF in 0.1 and i hated it when i played an infernalist

its just too easy

[river violet]

Yeah, and that's about when you've learned all there is to learn, too.

[jaunty crystal]

but how common sense is everything that you can do in poe?
game doesnt tell you most of its parts, at least i spent more time googling/asking in chats than got info from game itself

[river violet]

Poe2 is definitely much shallower than poe1 at the moment

[hot knoll]

but streamers are quitting before they even started bro

its seriously KEKLOL for me

[keen pilot]

cuz not much changed, main problems are still literally the same, even worse than on 0.1

[jaunty crystal]

one of the parts i really dislike, even though i could afford it, is that you need premium stashes to be able to trade

[river violet]

A lot of it can be found using the alt+click on keywords and/or reading things very carefully. I'll admit there are more than a few incorrect tooltips that people only learn about through trial and error (and reading the bug reports )

[keen pilot]

rares on maps, bigger towers are imho bandaids for real issues that they need to solve

[hot knoll]

if you like the game support it , its not fully free to play for any serious player

[novel crow]

I see, well I played a lot of poe1 already but poe2 is so much nicer with lots of potential, that's why I'm toughing it out

[keen pilot]

poe1 needs wiki to play, glad for poe2 tip system

[novel crow]

could do with more as well, there's a lot that's not explained, especially in 0.2

[river violet]

When poe2 lets you see all the gems without cutting one it'll be chef's fucking kiss

[hot knoll]

just play ssf if you dont wanna buy premium stashes, you'll only be a better player from it

[jaunty crystal]

yes, but if it is part of the game why cant people use regular tabs for same purposes? feels too predatory practice

[keen pilot]

could have some sort of help panel like poe1 (sadly it wasnt really helpful in poe1 xd)

[hot knoll]

dude you only need a minimum spend of a full priced game on steam to do the same

[keen pilot]

but you get points by buying the game already

[hot knoll]

theres no reason for a player like me on my first end game league to be top 50

[novel flame]

the price for ea already get equivalent of points

[river violet]

I mean, it's more informative than people give it credit for. It was just tucked away and barely used. And it got kinda out of date in parts

[keen pilot]

maybe cuz nobody plays SCSSF

shocking i know

[jaunty crystal]

i do, yes, i personally bought more, but still part of gameplay hidden behind paywall is not good practice imo, and some people still get free accesses/keys atm without currency

[river violet]

I like to think of poe as a $30 game with an immensely generous free trial

[hot knoll]

im not egoing here either, i just want the game to be harder with the POE philosophy

old POE1 with chris wilson is absolutely unapologetic about their nerfs

[novel flame]

can keep buying tab is also good

[keen pilot]

i think its fine and roughly unintrusive way for free to play game, but honestly i agree that it could be written more cleanly to understand for new players that those tabs allow you to trade

[hot knoll]

yes POE as a series is not a true f2p game

but you play SSF you dont need any stash tabs

[river violet]

I mean, you technically don't need premium tabs to sell items. It just makes it wayyyyy easier

And I don't mean using trade chat

[keen pilot]

forum trading was an experience

[jaunty crystal]

have you ever gotten anything from trade chat? 😄

[keen pilot]

back in the day

[river violet]

You can list items on the forums without a premium tab

[river violet]

A headache

[jaunty crystal]

i cant even see my posts there in all those trials carries spams anymore

[hot knoll]

are you comparing competitiveness on sc trade towards sc ssf ?

[keen pilot]

yes i do

[hot knoll]

you can cheese so much on sc trade right now

[keen pilot]

its way more players

it doesnt matter if its easier/harder

[hot knoll]

whether gem power, fragments etc

no real sc trade player cares about top 100 ladder

[keen pilot]

i like scssf myself but its obvious that most players are on sc trade

so ladder will be more competitive by sheer amount of people

[hot knoll]

hc is the real deal anyway

you properly access risk

and not just push the greed button 100%

[keen pilot]

both this game and previous one taught me hc players are insane

[hot knoll]

i come from hcssf ruthless anyway lol but yeah im a masochist but i also played this genre for many years

[keen pilot]

i just dont like losing my progress to random crit from random empowered 0.001% mob i havent seen

bosses on hc are fun tho

[hot knoll]

a serious player in POE will record the last minute of each death

you dont blame it on a random crit

[keen pilot]

most of my hc deaths dont have anything to learn from

[hot knoll]

maybe you havent record and ask what killed you

theres crit mitigation btw

i use armour in this game together with eva etc

[keen pilot]

thats just not the type of gameplay for me i guess

[hot knoll]

ppl think im trolling with armour

you hit the suffix crit multiplier, just dont do it for example

if you die from a single crit in POE2, which crit is nerfed heavily compared to POE1 , its kinda your mistake

the hard truth

[novel flame]

everyone want different things from the same game

even a simple game like pokemon, players would want different thing from it

[hot knoll]

yes so GGG if they want to double their concurrent players need to balance the onboarding

but they should also stick to their vision which GGG is all about that , theres obvs many problems in POE2 but i dont mutually share the same opinions

[novel crow]

30d for 5% more movement speed, do I want it that badly...

[hot knoll]

if its 35% you can hit that easily

[novel crow]

everyone keeps talking about this easy easy shit

[hot knoll]

ive got 35% movement speed + life + resistance, i dont use it , i rather use my ilvl 70 boots

[novel crow]

what is this, show off channel?

[keen pilot]

meant mostly poe1, i havent played hc in 2 yet

[hot knoll]

again no its not showing off/ego. you play it right you can hit it

and im not talking about trade , 30 divs is a waste to hit that item

[jaunty crystal]

what else to use them for

[novel crow]

yeah well I need fire and cold res on it as well, otherwise I have to rework the whole lot

that's why it gets hard

[hot knoll]

you can calculate it on craftofexile and its certainly not 30 divs

divs are just pepper on your best gear or rerolling implicits

[novel crow]

I'm still on 25% MS

30d is for equivalent boots with 30%

[hot knoll]

....

[keen pilot]

huh

30d is overpaying a lot

[hot knoll]

much to learn buddy

its ok to learn from trial and error

[keen pilot]

man you need to be less condescending

[hot knoll]

i dont mean so tbh, but theres a path to hitting it

ive read enough negative opinions about POE2 so im pretty jaded myself with the popular opinion

[novel crow]

well then start from the top, tell me how to replace these, and to explain - I need the 30 int or I can't wear them as I need all the dex on my tree

and yes I want ES boots

[keen pilot]

ya okay 5 affix boots will be expensive

[novel crow]

thank you

[keen pilot]

i would rather roll res/int somewhere else if you can that would drop price a lot

[novel crow]

the stun is the only useless thing there

well I have nowhere to put the res and int

[hot knoll]

try picking up white bases, slam essence of haste

[keen pilot]

and then

surely you can make 3 affix item

[hot knoll]

well it depends on what you want the 2nd affix is

[keen pilot]

but anything above 4 is masochistic gambling

[hot knoll]

without adding recomb into this or expedition crafts

[novel crow]

bingo

I can't craft anything like this

[river violet]

Not with that attitude

[hot knoll]

you get intelligence from any other gear you have

[novel crow]

so I have to replace something else, this spirals out of control

[keen pilot]

man i have gear that i cant upgrade until end of the league reasonably without trade

its not the attitude problem

[novel crow]

my gear is kinda perfectly balanced

[keen pilot]

and we dont have harvest so resistances are hard to juggle

yes im complaining about poe2

[hot knoll]

your gear is pretty good anyway .... 25% movement speed is not THAT bad if you think everything else covers it

i dunno your other gear so i cant really comment that much else

[jaunty crystal]

i personally collected 3 full different gear sets because of upgrading my boots for affordable prices... 😄

[novel crow]

https://poe2.ninja/builds/dawn/character/Ittaku-1103/Huntrakas?i=0&search=class%3DAmazon%26name%3Dhuntrakas%26sort%3Dlevel

[jaunty crystal]

took some time but its doable

[keen pilot]

i just want some way to craft stuff with finite amount of time even if it costs tons of div

[novel crow]

that's my character and equipment

[river violet]

Yeah I have a hard time telling what's actually a gear issue and what's a perspective issue. Like, maybe I just make bad builds on a regular basis so I'd be elated to have boots like that

[keen pilot]

trade vs ssf i suppose

[river violet]

Sadness vs happiness, yeah

[hot knoll]

your build is better than mine but i die much less

[river violet]

How do you know? Maybe they just farm t1 waystones

[novel crow]

and factor in I'm an old man only playing for 3 years so I don't have young person dexterity that can be/was trained

and I can tell you it does matter

[hot knoll]

they trade , so no its not just pre mapping t1 farming for HC

[novel crow]

so yeah that's why I need trade, I need good gear, I need a good build, and it's still too hard for me

[river violet]

Imagine overleveling in hc smh

[keen pilot]

who cares if they die or not on SC...

its their gameplay

[hot knoll]

it matters if you want to be a better player to try harder modes later

otherwise just have fun dude

[keen pilot]

ya i think everyone should just have fun

[hot knoll]

you dont have to clear arbiter tier 4

[keen pilot]

thats the reason why we're playing

[novel crow]

so pls don't tell me I can get better boots for much less than 30d :\

[hot knoll]

yes you can

[keen pilot]

probably not if you need 30 int there

[hot knoll]

no skill involved just knowledge

[novel crow]

aha penny drops

[keen pilot]

man if you craft 200ES, 30 int, 2 resistance, 30ms boots

below 30 div

i need to see that recording

[novel crow]

thank you thank you!

some sympathy at last

[keen pilot]

like its possible but not consistently

[hot knoll]

you think i cant hit a 35% movement speed on a white base with this on an ilvl 82 boots?

[keen pilot]

yes.

its not 35ms problem

its rest of stuff

[jaunty crystal]

if you have 30 divs you can get yourself decent full build for sure... find good affordable boots first, then check for affordable/cheap other pieces of gear to fill your needs/resistances

[novel crow]

I'm sure I can, I have multiple times, but I don't end up with every mod I want on it, and 3 of 6 are usually crap rolls

[keen pilot]

i have crafted many chaos res belts this league

[dapper tapir]

Just fracture and pray

[hot knoll]

you can target 2 affixes on POE2 btw

[novel crow]

this I know

[hot knoll]

the very minimum is a 50/50 recomb

[novel crow]

sorry you think I know nothing it appears

[keen pilot]

recomb isnt 50/50

[dapper tapir]

He is just trynna help

[novel crow]

recomb with good affixes is really low chance

[dapper tapir]

[keen pilot]

thats not really helping...

[novel crow]

I get it, but the entire build will unravel if I do what she says

[hot knoll]

it worked for me .....

multiple times

[novel crow]

it's balanced right now

[hot knoll]

maybe im super lucky? maybe its bugged? i dunno

thats why i also say orb of annul is VERY op in POE2

[keen pilot]

your odds for recomb are literally on screen

[novel crow]

the odds when you have 2 really good affixes are really low

I've trashed so many I've run out of expedition currency and can't be arsed doing lots of expedition

[keen pilot]

annul is just half of chaos in practice unless you have some special super tech i dont know about

like annul is actually super weak compared to poe1

[dapper tapir]

[keen pilot]

also recomb always gives rares so you cant even get 3affix consistently

[hot knoll]

ok im wrong, its around 11% recomb on 35% movement speed

its still very high percentages for me

[keen pilot]

whats your second mod...

two high affixes can go to like 5%

[novel crow]

yep

[hot knoll]

5% is great odds anyway for me

[dapper tapir]

Poe in a nutshell anyway gotta gamba to get good items or just buy it

[novel crow]

...

[keen pilot]

its alright odds, until you need to hit 3 slams on top of it

thats the main problem with those boots lol

[hot knoll]

hey, win some lose some

[novel crow]

right, which is why they cost 30d

[hot knoll]

yes theres a reason for it

the one HCSSF player here supports it

[keen pilot]

you either pay 30d or play crafting gambling game and eventually get it

[novel crow]

well playing ssf you have no choice so I wouldn't be so quick to judge on what 30d is worth

[hot knoll]

chaos orb by itself doesnt improve hitting your 2nd affix

[keen pilot]

you are just at point where upgrades are so expensive

• boots are good in popular build

armour boots would be way cheaper

[novel crow]

thank you, that's exactly the problem I've run into, I only have 35d and I can barely buy one slightly better item

armour is atrocious, I tried it for a while

[hot knoll]

armours great for me kek

[novel crow]

there are no nodes to support it on the right side

[keen pilot]

str req will kill you on amazon

[novel crow]

yah, the int reqs are hard enough for ES

[hot knoll]

str is like the MVP stat in poe2 right now anyway

because it only adds to your life pool, after all requirements

[keen pilot]

except you can use ES

[hot knoll]

its diablo 2 again

[novel crow]

and ES works great with eva and amazon has good support for it

[hot knoll]

i dont stack ES, well im 1000 ES and then life

and PDR

[keen pilot]

great

life is still in bad shape compared to ES

[novel crow]

I'm 1788 ES, it makes a huge difference

[hot knoll]

life is doing what it does ....

[novel crow]

especially with ghost dance

[hot knoll]

it could be better of course if GGG decides to include life on the passive skill tree

ES is obviously OP because its effectively life

[keen pilot]

armour auras are pointless and es gets absurd scaling everywhere

[hot knoll]

no armour is great for me

[keen pilot]

ya i think its slightly better

ES

[hot knoll]

im a deadeye on armour/ES/eva

96 ssf 15 deaths as a poe2 noob

armour has very important applications on bosses

[novel crow]

and probably half my age, good for you

[hot knoll]

im 40

your 55

[novel crow]

nice, not half

[hot knoll]

lets not discuss our age as a factor here

[novel crow]

alright let's just say I'm clumsy

just assume that can't be fixed

I died 74 times getting to lv97

[crystal wyvern]

the tooltips that show up under bosses that that are afflicted with debuffs and such, is there a list of all the symbols and what they mean?

[hot knoll]

its ok mate, you still got to 97

be proud of your gains

[novel crow]

well thanks!

[tender bane]

Hey, i'm stuck at 38/40 on the atlas tree points. Did i miss something ?

[hot knoll]

you can do better next time

[novel crow]

I figure by getting enough levels under my belt I can actually start playing

[novel crow]

I was 98 last season but those builds were much stronger

OP even

[hot knoll]

its fucking season 2 , you will get better if you havent got alot of experience in ruthless poe1

[novel crow]

I played poe1 for 2 years

CLUMSY, just accept it

[hot knoll]

i mean ruthless poe1, which influenced poe2 anyway

alot of the ruthless systems are basically poe2 now

[novel crow]

that bugs me

[keen pilot]

eh its like halfway between both to me

[novel crow]

the loot is ruthless

[hot knoll]

no ruthless is even worse loot

[novel crow]

at least in 0.2

[jaunty crystal]

unique maps

[hot knoll]

its similar to d2 where the only MF you get is your gear

[keen pilot]

ruthless is probably worse yeah

[hot knoll]

theres no map prefix for MF

and then you get your loot by sheer determination haha

[novel crow]

I wish I could stack some rarity in there, but there's no space on my items at my budget

I have like 18%

[hot knoll]

im MF 0 in POE2 btw

you only accept MF when you cover other bases

[novel crow]

of course, you wouldn't dare take an item with rarity, you'd trash it intentionally to make it harder for yourself

gotta up the difficulty

[hot knoll]

nah i take MF anyday , after the basics

[keen pilot]

honestly this game has no hard content that you need gear for

maybe simu

[tender bane]

I did not complete Castaway or Vaults of Kamasa, which one is giving 2 points ?

[novel crow]

sigh

[hot knoll]

yah have to wait til they add harder bosses etc

[novel crow]

both give points, you must have done one

[jaunty crystal]

i believe you should complete all 5 to get full points

[novel flame]

any if you place on it and it tells you that you can get the points

[keen pilot]

i just meant you dont need perfect gear to clear t15 delirium

[hot knoll]

cast away

[keen pilot]

most of builds can do it

[novel flame]

there are more than 5 types, but can only get 5 set of points total

[keen pilot]

so you have spots for MF

[hot knoll]

i havent encountered vault and im maxed

[novel crow]

I got points from vault

[keen pilot]

maybe it doesnt matter

[tender bane]

both can be found on the map ? or are they fragments ? havn't seen them yet

[jaunty crystal]

ah thought just 5, ok

[hot knoll]

oh then you should be 42 points, too op for GGG

[novel crow]

I even commented on it when i did, wondering why something with no effort would give points

[keen pilot]

on world map

[hot knoll]

at least it benefits players first

[novel crow]

#2┃general message

that's when I commented on it, after finishing the vault

maybe either will give you the last points...

[tender bane]

Thanks for your answers 👍 ❤️

[hot knoll]

we are in week 3 of the league anyway .. you get more mileage if you enjoy the grind right

[keen pilot]

i dont, ill just wait for changes or drop the game

[hot knoll]

unless you just wanna get to the end in week 1 and then /quit

[keen pilot]

in the end im not forced to play the game i dont enjoy

[hot knoll]

absolutely

the "chase" is a good carrot for me

[runic marlin]

i wanna try new builds

got a tangletongue to swap from LA to LS on deadeye but havent had the courage to grab everything else required

[keen pilot]

i just like upgrading my own gear by myself, not by trade, and with current state of omen rarity and essence/recomb balance its basically impossible

week of playing ritual to get one crafting omen is quite disheartening

[novel crow]

:(

[low rivet]

Hi,

I want to carry my friend thru Zarokh (sanctum).

Can he stand in the previous trial/sanctum room (the one before the boss) while I kill boss?
Or is it possible for him to be in boss room, but outside arena?
Or does he have to be in the arena?

[hot knoll]

well its a blaster game

i have not used a single crafting omen in this run

[keen pilot]

i doubt you can get any on SSF without heavy grind of rituals

[keen pilot]

those are all common ones

[runic marlin]

(wanna make another friend x'D ?!)

[keen pilot]

im talking about whittling and prefix/suffix ones

[hot knoll]

i got prefix suffix ones too , but i make do without them

again it comes down to how much you can control the game's current design

[keen pilot]

im at the point where i cant do much without them

[hot knoll]

it will only get easier from here

then what is blocking you from the current challenges

[keen pilot]

my goal in this game is pushing my character

power

[hot knoll]

same here , but i like the chase

[keen pilot]

i dont like when i see the goal but its unobtainable in 3 months without trade

[jaunty crystal]

he can stay in room before boss, so you can kill boss alone then let you friend to go further

[keen pilot]

and i dont want mirror tier items

maybe its just my poe1 standards that are trying to get something too good

[hot knoll]

you can still play 2 hours a day in 3 months and you can get there .. its just ppl want even faster

[novel crow]

I can't

[hot knoll]

current POE2 shd be balanced for 4 months like ruthless anyway

you can do "faster" with a good strat im sure. again it will only get easier from here with the current backlash

theres obvs balancing issues with the game right now

[novel crow]

that I can agree with

[hot knoll]

and onboarding early on shd be alot better, when act 1 - 3 HC is the most difficult phase right now

[keen pilot]

im just a fan of pushing one character to the limits of the build

and currently this game doesnt give me that

[hot knoll]

i started SSF late btw , i died 6 times on HC this league

all in campaign

[keen pilot]

so thats why i dont enjoy it much, despite combat itself probably being most fun out of all arpgs right now

i just dont feel any goal to push towards

[hot knoll]

combat is great here, i dont want a build to one shot

[keen pilot]

which is pretty important for that type of game which is supposed to be grinded for hours

[hot knoll]

and GGG obvs doesnt want that either

[keen pilot]

poe1 had a lot of things that you could push towards

[hot knoll]

yah POE1 is obvs the more complete experience

and much more difficult on high tier strategy

[keen pilot]

i think that may be resolved with updates in this game but honestly it feels like design problems right now than lack of content problem

[quiet shadow]

You're right, i play the game for builds, and they nuked any variety with jewel socket removal, trash tier ascendency choices, absolutely prohibiting node choices/travel nodes

[fading timber]

What's that green debuff? On mob

[quiet shadow]

and they kind of destroyed alot of chase tier uniques from endgame bosses, except for the scepter everyones using

[quiet shadow]

looks like pin

[keen pilot]

thats also a problem, chase stuff doesnt really exist

[hot knoll]

chase uniques isnt complete yet (i have my own chase unique)

then again it only takes one genius to hit the OP build that everyone wants to copy

[keen pilot]

and most of builds i theorycrafted doesnt really work cuz archetypes that they want to work are overtuned

[hot knoll]

if it includes a certain unique

[keen pilot]

like skills are clearly pushing you towards using X and Y

[river violet]

I'm guessing it's blood loss or armor break

[quiet shadow]

each class is stuck with a certain playstyle unless you want to suffer

[river violet]

Big disagree

[keen pilot]

and you are shoehorned into build

most of X builds take same nodes

and same items

[hot knoll]

the debuff should show on the top left anyway

it may have been a crit

[river violet]

The game makes it seem like you're shoehorned because of the way they throw the same page of gems in front of you every time you cut one, but you have way more flexibility than it first appears

[keen pilot]

big disagree

[novel crow]

most stuff is just too weak

[river violet]

It's not totallly uninhibited, like making a spell work on warrior early is annoying for early nodes

[hot knoll]

big disagree on this, because of the limit on skills with weapon per archtype they solved the currency / loot drops

[keen pilot]

a lot of combos are made strong to encourage them, but its because of that most of stuff doesnt work because its not intended to work

[keen pilot]

i dont see how both are related?

[hot knoll]

its what POE2 has solved over what POE1 has which goes back to why POE2 is so heavily buffed towards the players in ways ppl dont realise

[novel crow]

every best attack needs you to do a 3.5 backward somersault in the pike position before attacking

[keen pilot]

i wouldnt mind it if it wasnt only good way to use X skill or Y weapon

because other combos dont have that insane multiplier

[novel crow]

well yes but true softcorers want one or 2 button builds

[hot knoll]

combos are just a fail in POE2 atm

[keen pilot]

yeah thats why amazon LS is most played build

[novel crow]

right

and not parry amazons

[keen pilot]

i think you shouldnt be forced to use combo for every white pack

[hot knoll]

if you look at top 100 ladder you can see amazon LS is not representative

[keen pilot]

for bosses its fine

[river violet]

But you can make spells work on mercenary early as long as you use a projectile spell

[hot knoll]

you look at sc trade/ssf/hc/hcssf its not all amazon

you dont need LS amazon as a crutch to succeeed

[novel crow]

amazon is over 40%, but it is a new class so that has to be factored in

so I disagree, it IS mostly amazon

[hot knoll]

again look at the top 0.1% of players

[keen pilot]

you misread again, people play amazon because they want to play 1-2 button build

most of community

not top

[novel crow]

I don't want to, because the top 0.1% of players are not representative of what or how I play

[hot knoll]

then the amazon user should shoot up

[novel crow]

we said the same thing

[fading timber]

Evasion broken ? I guess it kinda looks like it when it's cracked like when Armour is broken

[novel crow]

us shit players want an easy build, there are more of us than you elites

[keen pilot]

i dont really think thats build diversity in my opinion, you will use same skills and stuff as other build with X spell

[hot knoll]

its fine dude, just have fun

[keen pilot]

yes its good part of system, but it doesnt change how its played

[quiet shadow]

I wasn't talking about "class lock" you can use whatever, in fact, contagion early into - bow/spear + stampede is probably best to just blitz acts. I'm talking about true endgame builds being one or two that exist, take a look at every HC warrior rn

[novel crow]

I do, otherwise I wouldn't have put in thousands of hours

but that wasn't the point

the point was most of us want 1 button builds

[keen pilot]

i want to have fun but my honeymoon period with game already ran out, so im stuck with complaining on discord instead

[quiet shadow]

just figured it out, its hobble, reduces evasion of the enemy

[keen pilot]

hopefully they will change some stuff so i can have fun again

[novel crow]

I'm okay with it as LS amazon atm, it's just loot I'd prefer to see more of

but there need to be more builds that capable

[hot knoll]

loot will only get better from here with the current backlash

[novel crow]

and that easy

yes I know, I'm hanging out

[keen pilot]

ya so im one step ahead, and realized that loot or any goal doesnt really exist in this game so i have no point to play

[hot knoll]

unless GGG stands their ground, which was what chris wilson did back in the day

[keen pilot]

just play and have fun

[quiet shadow]

if ggg stands their ground, entire game needs changes

[keen pilot]

people say that but chris made a lot of compromises on his stuff

and ggg does now as well

cuz they want game to be good

[hot knoll]

im obvs into more difficulty but again i said i want better onboarding for others

[river violet]

Where do you feel shoehorned, at least in early game?

[hot knoll]

if POE2 is meant to be the easier game it should be successful in doing so

[keen pilot]

i was speaking mostly about late game

not early

[river violet]

Oh, endgame discussion

That's even less shoehorned

[keen pilot]

early is another problem with attributes

but its doable

system fails at end mostly

[keen pilot]

im type of person who played more PoB than PoE1, and i can assure you, builds right now are very shoehorned

[hot knoll]

our expectations and the general gamer is very different anyway, if POE2 can perfectly solve it then they deserve money

[keen pilot]

to the point where i dont see a point of sitting in pob2

[river violet]

I agree to an extent with defenses feeling kinda shoehorny at the moment tho

[keen pilot]

offenses as well

[river violet]

How so?

[keen pilot]

a lot of skills force you to use whole package

[hot knoll]

no it does not

[river violet]

How are they forcing you?

[keen pilot]

because otherwise you're dealing way less damage or have way less utility

are we playing same game

[hot knoll]

no way on that

[river violet]

Can you give me an example of a skill and the package you're "forced" to use with it?

[hot knoll]

POE2 is unbalanced but ppl are figuring out the OP builds every league for every archtype

[keen pilot]

every archetype is stretch, but i agree op builds do and will come up

[hot knoll]

once that build is figured out every one wants to LS amazon

[river violet]

I guess I'm also not seeing how a class is defining what skills and packages you're "forced" into, even if skills are forcing you into a certain package

[keen pilot]

my point is that you take e.g. boneshatter and you have to play 3-4 skills with that ggg intended to not be actively having 5x less damage

also picking same 60 nodes

thats easily verifiable on poe.ninja

[hot knoll]

thats my problem with warrior atm, because your forced to have very similar skills

my build again i repeat is sub 0% representation on poe ninja

[river violet]

You don't have to do boneshatter on warrior

[quiet shadow]

yeah man, go auto attack! very good build

[hot knoll]

you can single attack your way through on bossing here

[keen pilot]

the fact that you can pick 5-10 skills on warrior, doesnt mean those 5-10 skills have same one build

[quiet shadow]

imagine going all the way to the end for autoattack

[river violet]

I meant you can do boneshatter on blood mage if you want

[keen pilot]

we're talking about 2 different things

[hot knoll]

skill expression, its actually possible now

[timid cloud]

I got to 90 on my warbringer with my main skill being my auto attack.... Once I was there though it was lacking for sure.

[hot knoll]

you wanna slot that dps support on your single target hit, you sacrifice your other skills

you wanna meme, you can meme with skill

[keen pilot]

i dont think your ascendency pick is "build variety", duh i started with crossbow on kitava, doesnt mean my build was any different from other crossbow

[quiet shadow]

Auto attack for endgame is failure for their skill system

im level 95 on every class atm

[hot knoll]

absolutely not

[river violet]

If you define "forced" as "doing the build with the highest possible dps" then sure, but you've defined yourself into a corner since there can only be one highest dps build, I suppose.

[quiet shadow]

boneshatter was terrible for endgame mapping

auto attack splash was better

[keen pilot]

disagree, poe1 somehow managed to handle it fine

[river violet]

Because lots of builds could do all content. Just like in poe2

[keen pilot]

many builds could use same skill and mechanics yet differ a lot

[quiet shadow]

You're missing the point. "can do content" and "have fun while doing content and having 1/10 of the struggle" differs a ton

[keen pilot]

now if i build ballista its always same

[hot knoll]

typical sc player dont access the risk element of the game anyway ..... you wont find that middle point

[keen pilot]

or boneshatter

or other skill

[novel flame]

i dont want to do the same thing in each season

[keen pilot]

or LS

[novel flame]

unless i just keep playing in standard

[quiet shadow]

I mean, i can play minions from warrior, but why would I

[hot knoll]

of course its gonna be shit, but theres a skill in POE1 that does just that if the player tried

we havent seen all skill gems btw. it might still come

[pseudo barn]

I had great fun with my homebrew builds both at launch and dawn of the hunt. I used them to clear the campaign. Was I slower than meta lvling builds? Obviously. Was it still fun? That's entirely subjective.

[quiet shadow]

yeah man we're talking about endgame, you can homebrew 1-3 and 1-3 cruel very easily

[hot knoll]

campaign is much harder than end game atm

[quiet shadow]

they specifically made it pretty easy once you know the boss, you can autoattack everything with martial tempo only if you wanted

[keen pilot]

its like many streamers said, you had monk in 0.1, everyone was playing same monk despite not taking builds from each other

[hot knoll]

you only need to play HC to experience it

[timid cloud]

This community has to be one of the whiniest communities I've ever seen in a game about the devs. Its kinda nuts.

[pseudo barn]

My point is tho who are you to determine what others find fun and what not.

[keen pilot]

cuz quarterstaff pushed you into same tree and same skills

i think thats my main problem as someone who has fun theorycrafting unique builds

and crafting issues make those awkward builds hard to make

[hot knoll]

cruel act 1 - 3 is auto win already

the real upcoming 4 - 6 needs to be harder

and it will introduce more boss mechanics and more cancer mobs

[river violet]

I think I need to go back and get our definitions right. Are we talking about class build diversity or skill/archetype build diversity?

Are we talking:
A. All monks are forced into X archetypes/skills/supports/nodes/etc
Or
B. All chaos dot builds are forced into Y class/skills/supports/nodes/ etc

[hot knoll]

on mapping you want to kill the cancer mobs first

[keen pilot]

second, meant mostly ice strike or tempest flurry monks

cuz nothing else was playable

[hot knoll]

on mapping if you wanna skip hyena lord, just put a tier 1 map to cross the node

[keen pilot]

without actively having 10x dmg reduction

[hot knoll]

theres so much player control in this game

[keen pilot]

on quarterstaff

[pseudo barn]

I btw still somewhat agree with the general statement of build diversity being a bit lackluster. But that's to be expected in early access imo and will probably get better over time.

[river violet]

Okay, so you're saying for any given skill you're more or less forced into what, exactly?
Class, ascendancy, nodes, supports, or some combination?

[keen pilot]

i just think they made this way too newbie-friendly to the point where builds make itself

there is only one specific correct choice

[river violet]

I think that's where we disagree

[keen pilot]

i suppose

[river violet]

Big disagree

[quiet shadow]

If you PoB, there's only 1 way

i agree

[keen pilot]

i dont find 12% es vs 12% damage a valid choice

[hot knoll]

build diversity is fucked atm , but POE1 is the same just on different degrees

[river violet]

First off, depends on what you mean by correct because there are often sacrifices you can make for defense, smoothness of play, etc

[timid cloud]

Yeah I strong disagree also. Every build I've followed I've made changes that better suit my weaknesses and my playstyle.

[keen pilot]

the nodes that make your build or impact gameplay heavily

or skills

[hot knoll]

in POE2 it is much more easier

in POE1 you can basically tank just by choosing the right passives at the right time

[river violet]

Still disagree. You can do the same build on various ascendancies and get huge variations on playstyle, defense, offense, ease of gearing, etc

[keen pilot]

correct i mean it makes your build better, but it plays quite the same as other person who picked worse

[river violet]

What metric are you using for better/worse?

Just dps?

[hot knoll]

that's GGG's helping average players

[river violet]

That's a flawed system since there are loads of other metrics

[hot knoll]

the passive tree right now is stupid anyway, its just filled with traps and hit on tuesday/wednesday

you scale your dps and scale your defences , no need for the tuesday/wednesday stuff

[river violet]

Yeah it's very hard to find new stuff that works, but the stuff that does work you can do in lots of different ways

[keen pilot]

lets get back to ice strike example

[quiet shadow]

Idk what you mean by this. this is like trying to go for shadowdancing and unspeccing out of Mindful Awareness gives "variety"

[keen pilot]

88% are invoker

[hot knoll]

theres variety if you tried kek

[keen pilot]

12% that arent are either chayula or are pathing to start of monk and have 90 of nodes similar to invoker

[hot knoll]

mechanical skill is so much more important compared to d2/POE1 atm

[keen pilot]

you take same 8 node circles

on all builds

cuz they're objectively useful on ice strike

and rest around it isnt

it isnt metrics issue

its just being shoehorned into build if you pick ice strike, build is just making itself

i tried making quarterstaff warrior

[hot knoll]

well... the average POE player copy builds anyway

[keen pilot]

its painful

[hot knoll]

you dont have to, is my point

[keen pilot]

i dont

[river violet]

I mean that, for example, you can do artillery ballista on Smith or tactician (or other stuff). Smith offers more ssf friendliness, tankiness, etc. Tactician offers closer placement to damage nodes, safety with pin, boost to Armour, etc. Gemling offers raw damage.

What is "correct" is entirely subjective. It all depends on what you value (dps, defense, smoothness, playstyle, etc)

[keen pilot]

you are missing the point, all three AB builds (smith/tactician/gemling) take most of same nodes and go similar skills

[hot knoll]

in POE1 you will learn after hundreds of hours , most ppl will simply /quit on build making

[keen pilot]

gemling gets +% to dps and smith has +% to defense

its not diversity

[timid cloud]

Even within any of these builds... there are probably slight variations on a handful of nods