More color mutations!

[astral mesa]

would be so cool to see Piebaldism, Erythrism or Xanthochromism in the game :D
**Piebaldism **- causes white or light patches on the skin, happens in many different animals, birds and reptiles
**Erythrism **- unusual reddish discoloration in fur, hair, skin, feathers, and even eggshells
**Xanthochromism **- condition in birds, fish, and reptiles, showing unusually high level of yellow or orange pigment

[wheat sundial]

Piebaldism already kinda exists ingame through leucism.

[astral mesa]

somewhat with some species but Piebaldism would prob happen with the normal colors and could be different patterns to

only close thing ive see would be something like this with leucism but i wouldnt call that Piebaldism

[minor star]

For all the dinosaurs, I'd like to see bright colors as selectable skin variants. Mammals' fur is very limited in terms of color. Birds and their ancestors have the entire rainbow to choose from. Why isn't this used?

Even the albino dinosaur or the melanistic variant is miserably boring.

I'd like to see colorful, magnificent robes of dinosaurs looking for a partner. Colors as a means of communication and for intraspecific cohesion, as a deterrent to predators—there are so many possibilities.

[rigid ice]

Size

Size is why

The overwhelming majority of nonavian dinosaurs would probably be as dull if not more dull than the skin options available ingame. Big animals don't tend to get very colorful, because bright pigments and structural color take an immense amount of energy for an animal to produce. Which is fine when you only weigh a few ounces and don't need to make much, but when you're several tons, not nearly as viable

There's plenty of skins that have pretty vibrant colors, or smaller, vibrant display structures (which is a little more plausible than full-body colors). Off the top of my head, Cosmic lambeosaurus is super unrealistically vibrant, there's the discus ouranosaurus, all three parasaurolophus alts have pretty vibrant crests, feathered dilo is purple and iridescent, feathered rex has some blue feathers on its face, etc.

And I mean, preserved colors in actual dinosaurs weren't exactly crazy...

[obtuse anchor]

microraptor was

[rigid ice]

Microraptor was iridescent, but I wouldn't really call that "crazy vibrant" or anything

But even if you do, only further proves my point

(also, micro in-game is iridescent/accurate to real life so it's moot anyway)

[obtuse anchor]

iridescent is cool

I'd say it's crazy

but it's definitely not vibrant

[minor star]

The colors, however, are largely speculation. Just like any soft tissue. And there are theories that the first use of feathers was for coloring, before they were used for flight.

Besides, I wasn't advocating for dipping all dinosaurs into the paint box without exception, but rather that fans of a colorful prehistoric park should have skins with magnificent and courting plumage to choose from.

[true folio]

We're getting skin recoloring later on anyway

So it ultimately won't matter

[rigid ice]

Not on my examples

Those are animals for whom we have recovered pigment traces

Etc etc

[minor star]

Yes. There are a few fossils from which we can deduce the colors. They are orange-ringed, white and black-spotted, with stripes, and in the case of the Caihong, white, black, and orange-brown, and in the case of the Caihong, probably as colorful as a peacock.

We know nothing about the vast majority. So why only choose the boring assumptions for the other dinosaurs and only subtly color those where there is evidence for them?

[rigid ice]

"Boring" is a loaded word, but it's the null hypothesis to assume most large dinosaurs wouldn't be very colorful

That's a more expected result based on what we know of dinosaur coloration and modern animal coloration

As for things like display plumage I sincerely don't think any animal in PK is lacking in that aspect

As far as "animals that could actually have it"

Velociraptor has a mobile feather crest, dilophosaurus, the ceratopsians, and Hadrosaurs all have their bony crests and frills (why would they have giant feathers or fleshy implements when they already have huge billboards stuck to their heads?) etc etc

You probably wouldn't see a massive feather crest or fleshy wattles on a big theropod like a t rex, because we have a good chunk of evidence telling us that probably resolved conflict with face biting- and with a bite like that, trust me, you do not want a big fleshy wattle filled with blood vessels stuck to your face. Or feathers that could easily get ripped out

Not to mention a lot of them are predators very high on the food web, for whom big conspicuous crests you can't get rid of are more of a disadvantage than an advantage, because unlike a deer who can eat plants, a t rex has to do a lot more to ensure it actually eats

First use of feathers was also almost certainly thermoregulation, anyway (there was an interesting study done on coelophysis metabolism that suggested they'd need feathers to keep warm)

Also, a big thing I wanna point out- there's so many more options for animal courtship that don't involve vibrant, showy display features. There's courtship rituals/mating dances, lekking, vocalizations, gifting, nest building, and so on, and most animals today don't need to be particularly vibrant or showy to have interesting courtship behaviors. Speaking as a biology student here, it makes me sad to see the sheer diversity of life and animal mating behaviors dismissed as "boring" in favor of just visually striking crests and dangly bits. There's so much more you could use to make the dinosaurs feel unique

[minor star]

I like the perspective of the book "All Yesterdays"
(from an article about the book: To show the flaws of past art, All Yesterdays flips the script and portrays modern animals using typical conventions of paleoart. The results are what can only be considered borderline nightmare fuel.)

Images of a cat, swan, elephant, horse, and rhino

[rigid ice]

Sigh

These images are kinda wildly exaggerated and would not really reflect what paleontology would predict if modern animals never existed

They, and the book All Yesterdays, have kinda been lambasted by the paleontological community for awhile because the message people got from the book wasn't really the message that it was originally trying to convey

People read it and went "oh, our dinosaurs are too boring and skinny, we need to make them more interesting and vibrant and fleshy because you could never know based on just bones or whatever"

But the actual message was, or at least should have been, "We have a habit of only ever depicting animals a very particular way in paleoart, and it's important to look to the sheer diversity of extant nature to inform and inspire paleoart that's creative and unique"

[keen lintel]

All Yesterdays was more critiquing the documentaries at the time like the cat is said to eat humans in there sleep and common mistakes like shrink wrapping. It's not you can add anything to dinosaurs.

also showing dinosaurs with natural animal behavior that goes away from stereotypes

[rigid ice]

^

And part of THAT involves showing courtship behaviors that don't involve looking like a peacock

[keen lintel]

like it has a fun scene of leally displaying their tails

as signal

thats not brighly colored other than the yellow feather

plesiosaurs showing there necks

for display

all yesterday wasn't perfect but its original message was great it got taken in the wrong way.

where people add blobs of flesh to megatheropods or sauropods

which is funny as sauropods probably had very intricate scales and integument in life and so many carnivores had crests and keratin.

but people like added turkey and peafowl stuff

modern pk is a good example for spec like galli

[rigid ice]

And I mean even where they looked "boring'

That's just nature

They had different means of display from big showy crests

[keen lintel]

with each galli having its own feather type which is not over showy but still interesting

[rigid ice]

Nature does not care about appealing to human aesthetic preferences

[minor star]

When I look at how, for example, the image of the T. rex has changed over time, from Godzilla to a feathered killer chicken to the current agile hunter, or the Iguanodon, crocodile-like, oh no, lives in trees and has a horn on its nose, oops, that's the thumb, and it walks on two legs, oh no, on four, probably...

I assume further fundamental changes in the presumed appearance of many dinosaurs and advocate for more scope for imagination now.

[keen lintel]

also many interesting animals are drab

the 2010s were a weird time for paleo art

like the 2000s and 2020s vs the 2010s is insane

theres so many cool spec but people just added modern day stuff to dinosaurs

not understanding why those animals have them

[rigid ice]

This is a bit of a misguided argument because it assumes where we are now is effectively the same as where we were when dinosaurs were newly discovered 200 years ago. And to that, I ask you, would you rather have a doctor from 200 years ago or a doctor from today?

Our understanding of dinosaurs is significantly more complete now. And yes, there's a good chunk of stuff we don't know, but it is mostly going to be building upon what we do know now a little bit rather than tearing it all apart. We have pretty much the core of how they would have looked figured out, it's just minor things that are harder to figure out.

To say we have no idea and that our understanding will change completely in the future only does a disservice to the paleontologists who have made these animals their life's work to understand.

Also, I'm going to point out that t rex was literally never actually considered to be a "feathered killer chicken." The discovery of Yutyrannus opened the possibility of it having feathers, but nobody at the time was seriously suggesting anything beyond a short coat of feathers, and there was more to imply it wouldn't have feathers the more we looked into it. The idea of t rex as a giant feathered fluffball chicken monster is entirely a made up, pop culture idea, partly fuelled by All Yesterdays nonsense. None of those versions of t rex were actually informed by science and paleontologists never seriously considered them as possible.

Iguanodon was discovered by people who had like zero understanding of actual animal anatomy, and at the time, theology had a much tighter grip on society that extended to the sciences. Dinosaurs were hamfistedly reconstructed as primitive, brutish animals not because there was any evidence to imply this, but just because they were reptiles, and thus "inferior" animals- while humans were "made in God's image" and whatever. Modern paleontologists actually tend to have a better grasp on animal physiology and biology, and at least try not to be so cartoonishly biased

I'm making an appointment with my academic advisors this coming week to formally declare my minor in paleobiology, so this is kind of a field I've been studying to get into anyway.

[keen lintel]

^

[minor star]

We're still talking about a game where you can magically clone dinosaurs, right?

That's fine. But not a few pretty color patterns?

[true folio]

There already are quite a few

One of the rex skins has electric blue skin and a yellow mouth lol

Same one has black feathering on its back

One of the Ouranosaurus skins is literally blue and green all over its back (the giant display structure)

[minor star]

in homeopathic dosage o.O

And the species mentioned also have enough color variations for the purists here.

If there are colorful varieties to choose from in breeding, no one is forced 1) to choose them at all and 2) to equip all their dinosaurs with them until the end of time.

So why get upset about a request for more color variety to choose from, as if I wanted to force it on anyone?

Just because someone absolutely wants to enjoy their park in brown, beige, mud colors with a few gray stripes, does that mean everyone else has to do the same?

[rigid ice]

I think people were more trying to point out why the animals have been designed that way

Like, the logic behind tending towards "drab" skins

[keen lintel]

none of pk’s skins are really drab

[rigid ice]

Though I honestly think MOST animals still have pretty good options as far as vibrant colors go

[keen lintel]

other than mammals

they are just all natural

which makes sense knowing there size

also many animals have colors in one spot which pop purple dilo and rex with yellow mouth and blue sideburns

purple lambeo

heck even chestnut lambeo

[rigid ice]

All three lambeos have pretty bold colors at least in places

Equine has the banana yellow crest

It's my favorite, not because it's the most "drab" but because the contrast is really striking visually

People underestimate patterns as a way to make an animal visually striking, which is funny

[keen lintel]

bronto is an example

in pk

[rigid ice]

You can take a bunch of "boring" colors and make an animal that really pops with them.

[keen lintel]

as its extremely striking

[rigid ice]

Exactly

Bronto is superb I would say

[keen lintel]

fitting for the thunder lizard

while not being too bright

[rigid ice]

All colors that a brontosaurus could believably have

But they make it pop by how they're used

[keen lintel]

same with brachi’s skins

especially old russet

[rigid ice]

Each animal skin is designed very deliberately by the concept artists, and a lot of thought goes into them

[keen lintel]

despite it being a older skin

russet is peak

in my opinion

its not as natural as the other two

but its like pk brachi in my opinion

[rigid ice]

It's sad to see that most of them are being discredited as "boring and beige" just because they're not as colorful as a tropical parrot

[rigid ice]

I think it'd perfectly natural tbh. Maybe more of a stretch than the other skins, but entirely possible

[keen lintel]

its funny as my favorite bird are scarlet macaw but not every animal has to be parrot colored

in fact that’s what makes brightly colored animals special

[rigid ice]

There's something to be said for animals that large just getting too big for patterns to really stick, but I personally don't think there's enough of an understanding of that to say

[rigid ice]

RIGHT, YEAH

If every frog was as bright as poison dart frogs, poison dart frogs wouldn't be very special

[keen lintel]

macaws wouldn’t be special if every large flying bird was colorful

If every animal was like a peafowl then the think the peafowl has thats unique would be boring

[keen lintel]

russets my favorite brachi skin btw

[rigid ice]

Sure, the Velociraptor skins aren't neon colored, but like, look at Mirage- it's got iridescence, a lot of contrasting patterns, a speculative extending crest... Plenty to make it believably "showy" for a desert predator

When skins like these are options, I think it's disingenuous to say there's nothing for people who enjoy stuff that's more vibrant

And I pointed this out from the start

[minor star]

we have fundamentally different concepts of "vibrant" and "bright colors". your styracosaurus is mud-colored and slightly green-molded. Protoceratops is also only in the camouflage color of the forest. The bright colors of the lambeosaurus is only visible with a magnifying glass and the ouranosaurus is nice for the lower end of the flagpole, not as a shining example of all my fulfilled wishes.

[rigid ice]

I want to live wherever you are that mud is that color, that sounds sick

But I mean if those aren't good enough for you then idk what to tell you

That's about what you can expect for "vibrant" skins in PK, individual variation aside

Or take it up with Medena, she designed a lot of the skins- I'm sure she'd be happy to hear about how boring and ugly her work is :p

[turbid mortar]

Pibaldism Exist Erythism Exist its just Labeld all in Leucism and they exist in Combos there are Pure full Patterned Leucistics and eben partly Patternes animals with Piebaldism I found pseudo or High Melanism on a Sabertooth wich got lables as Normal I just have the feeling we not can seee the other names because they not exist really but the main thing is they also maybe should be adressed in some kind of way to poke out other way juast wait few Updates when Gene editing comes in

[astral mesa]

i wouldn't say pidaldism exist but i would say erythism does a little bit, pidald would be of showing mostly of a solid white pattern on a normal coat of a animal and Leucistics doesn't show that much it shows the lighting of they colors of the animal not showing solid white patterns

[turbid mortar]

It exist. Because Pibaldism is not Only white patterns in Animal Color it also means lesser Color than normal washed out colors like brighter colors the animals also have this

[astral mesa]

thats just leucism is it not? pidaldism is mainly patterns unlike leucism which can be Partial or Complete Loss of Pigmentation

like in the pics you sent one does show Erythism and the other to me only show leucism none show pidaldism

[astral mesa]

heres only a few ive seen with a lot of white that have leucism and i wouldnt say they have pidaldism

[rigid ice]

Piebaldism doesn't necessarily mean an animal would be mostly white- it only refers to partial pigmentation loss, and a piebald animal can technically be almost completely normal save for one small splotch.

But anyway, as far as PK goes, I don't know if it would be possible to achieve that kind of piebaldism due to the way the mutation/variation shaders work- as far as I can tell, they're tied to the underlying skin patterns, and they just shift the colors in those areas to varying degrees. It can end up looking something like piebaldism, but I don't think it's possible to do anything that really fully "defies" the patterns skins have, if that makes sense

I could be wrong, mind you, but that's just my hunch based on looking at it

Leucism, to my knowledge, can actually refer to a variety of distinct genetic conditions in animals, it's just an umbrella term for partial pigmentation loss

So technically stuff like amelanism is included under the umbrella

[astral mesa]

i might be possible to do piebaldism ik a game thats simllar to pk that has it, but then again there both two different games so it might not work, and yes ik that piebaldism doesnt mean the animal will be mostly white lmaoo

[astral mesa]

ahhh arlight c:

[rigid ice]

Yeah, it's always worth remembering that even similar games can function completely differently under the hood. If it's PZ you're talking about, I'm pretty sure their animal mutations like piebaldism are pre-baked textures, so the patterns don't vary from one piebald animal to another. PK's approach offers a bit more flexibility without the need to manually texture a bunch of variants, but it's still limited in what it can do

Also, y'know, different engines

[astral mesa]

yeah i do get that, why i said even then i might not work. since most games have different engines and how things work. Just thought would be cool in a way to have stuff like that in the game lol, knowing it might not be possible, with pk.

[latent trellis]

We know about color mutations. Are there such things as PATTERN mutations?

[keen lintel]

pz is kind of like that but piebalds do vary

they are kind of a weird gradient thing as animal in pz have variation just minimal it’s more apparent in more colorful animals and spotted animals which in planet zoo have an absurd amount of patterns

but each one is kind of hand made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6r38D2RCz8

go to the leopard on this video and it will show it more clearly with the unreleased species viewer mod

planet zoo has a completely different varation system where animals have like 1-5 different set mutations and variation in them with gradiations and spot/stripe variation

pk doesnt have that but I thought it would be nice to show the difference in how both go about variation

the patterns in pz are basically added to the animal base

[frigid obsidian]

I need my beloved Lutino Tyrannosaurus
Also didn't know that Erythrism also influences the Egg Color

[turbid mortar]

I bred sonething like this but its just a Albino with slightly yellow tone

[frigid obsidian]

I know, but probably extremely rare.
Hope to also get one someday

[turbid mortar]

genetic Modifications will be a a thing in 2 big Updates what also means Dinosaurs with other Colors

[frigid obsidian]

I'm still hoping I'll be able to create a Cockatiel Tyrannosaurus 🙃
Hope they'll add Pattern Customization at some Point. I think so far they've only shown Changes of one Color for the whole Body

[turbid mortar]

No only colors pattern will be the same

[frigid obsidian]

lol let me dream of my gigantic carnivorous Cockatiel
I wonder how many People will create neon green Mammoths since it became Kind of a Meme on this Server 🙃

[drowsy trail]

neon green mammoths are comming for you while you sleep (their imprisoned by the devs right now)

[frigid obsidian]

They can't harm me. I have a purple Cotylorhynchus that protects me

[rich flicker]

Jumping in here - A/xanthism and An/erythism would be great as official mutations

[rigid ice]

I've found these generally fall within the range of regular variation tbh

It depends on the skin ofc

but generally I dunno if they're really a big enough difference to count completely separately

[keen lintel]

many lucys are erythristic in game